WEBVTT - On My First Visit to St. Andrews... 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.960 And when I find my ball in a brid egg 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.080 Frida egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg, Frida Egg, 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:11.920 bride egg. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.080 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump course. 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.320 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.920 Today's episode is a little different one. I'm pretty excited 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.720 about this one. I had a lot of fun putting 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:52.080 it together. I am making my first trip over to Scotland. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.320 It will be the first time that I see the 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.360 old Course and I can't couldn't be more excited. I 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.120 as we get closer and closer one day out, I 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.160 can't wait to get on the plane and get over there. 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.959 And you know the open should be a ton of fun. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.839 But for this podcast, we over the last few months 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.920 and you know, a lot in the last week I 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.680 have I've called up some people or when I've been 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.840 with them, I've asked them, you know a question. You know, 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.800 what brought you to the old course the first time 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.199 and what were your impressions the first time you played 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.120 the old course? Or we're at the Old Course so 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.000 in this podcast there will be a collection of short 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:42.000 stories centered around those questions and they the participants. Thank 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.679 you to all of them for giving me a little 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:50.160 slice of their day. Tom Doak, Gil Hans, Michael Clayton, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:56.880 the Australian golf architect, former European Tour player and golf writer. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:02.920 Also Zach Blair PGA Tour, Shane Bacon the Great Golf 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:08.200 Channel announcer and host, so he also caddied at the 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.280 Old Course for a part portion of his life, which 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.839 is pretty neat. And then James Duncan, who is who 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.000 worked a long time associate with Core and Crenshaw. He 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.960 is a really great guy. We've got a future podcast 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.320 coming out after the Open Championship with James, so that'll 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.480 be the first time you hear his voice on this podcast. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:34.480 But a wonderful golf architecture and golf mind in general. 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.560 So those are the guests. This is all about the 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:43.040 Old Course. I hope you guys enjoy and we will 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.080 see you this week. I've got we've got some really 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.560 neat stuff planned for the Open Championship, so be on 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.720 the lookout for more pods and articles on the Friday 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.800 dot Com I'll post a post something with my first 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.600 impressions of the Old Course on on Monday or Tuesday 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.240 on the website after I get out there walk. I 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.440 can't wait, And without further ado, here is golf course 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:11.679 architect Tom Dough. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.120 The first time I saw the Old Course was when 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.560 I was fifteen. I went over with my parents and 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.920 my brother. My dad worked for Unilever Lever Brothers in 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.359 the States, which was part of Unilever, which is a 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:33.280 Dutch and England based company, and the job he did 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.240 was important enough that he would go over to the 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.800 European headquarters like once a year to just discuss strategy 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.800 and discuss what the US Office was doing on buying commodities. So, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.480 you know, by then we'd you know, we'd gone to 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.600 Pebble Beach and Pinehurst and places like that on family vacations. 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.200 But you know, my parents thought, oh, let's you know, 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.680 let's go to your So we spent three days in Scotland, 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.840 we spent two or three days in London on business, 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.840 and then we went to Holland for three or four days. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.480 So I played the Old Course as a fifteen year 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.600 old with my parents and my brother, and at that 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.400 time you know, I mean I you know, I knew 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.599 about the road hole. I knew about this the same 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.640 sort of basic knowledge of it that everyone would have. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.640 And you know, probably the two most memorable things were, 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:37.000 you know, one if you get in Bunkers, you're really screwed. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.320 And two if you don't get in bunkers. It's a 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.680 very open golf course and you can get around it 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.039 just fine. You know, there's there's kind of some tricky contours, 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.279 you know, some of the little up and over type 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.760 shots you might play on some of the holes that 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.920 are almost like mini golf in terms of just up 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.680 over something and then the ball is going to keep 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.640 going past the whole no matter you do. But you know, 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.440 not enough to you know, and it was it was 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.080 a super busy place, was the other thing. But you know, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:11.960 it was hard not to fall in love with the 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.520 town and just everything about the town, even though the 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:19.560 town experience is really very different. You know, when I 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:21.799 lived there. The two months i lived there was also 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.679 the middle of the summer, and the town's very different 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.280 in the summer when it's mostly tourists and the university 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:29.960 is not in session, and you know, if you go 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.919 there in the fall or early spring and the universities, 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:34.680 and it's kind of it's very different. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.720 How is it different? Is it just like it? Would 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.720 you compare it a little bit to Traverse City in 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.600 the in the off season versus the in season. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.200 Yeah, I suppose, yes. I mean in the summer, you know, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.280 you just hear a lot. It's not only Americans that 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.559 are going there. You get people from all over the world, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:58.000 but you can't help but bump into other Americans, and 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.800 you tend to chat up other Americans and generally you 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:07.279 meet mostly Americans instead of except for your caddie, whereas 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.920 in the rest of the year you're typically going to 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.960 interact more with the locals and the people from the UK, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:20.080 and you know, so just entirely different conversations. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:24.680 That's interesting. It's uh, maybe that's a that's a sneaky 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.359 piece of advice. Is for a more authentic experience, go 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:29.520 go off season? 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.880 Yep, it's yeah. And you don't have to worry about 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.440 the ballot so much either. I mean, you know, it's 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.160 really hard to book a tea time in the old 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.560 course in the middle of the summer. Now you either 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.200 have to pay a lot of money to somebody that 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:47.480 hasn't in, or just go there for several days and 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.400 hang around, you know, and play other courses around and 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.839 take your chances in the lottery every day until. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:54.200 Maybe you get on. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.599 And here is James Duncan, who works for Cork Crnshaw 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.400 has worked for core Crnshaw for a long time. Is 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:10.000 Danish and Scottish and spent a substantial time in Scotland himself. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:18.720 The first time I went, I was a student living 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:23.480 in Copenhagen and I had arranged somehow to go to 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.440 Scotland for a few months to do an internship at 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:34.720 a company that consulted on golf courses. And somehow I 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.040 my professor had signed off on the paperwork to say 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.800 I'm not quite sure what it is you're doing or 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.040 why you want to do it, but you seem to 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:44.080 be pretty keen, so go ahead. We'll call it project 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.680 management one oh one, some class that you could get 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.560 credits for to go and do an internship in Scotland. 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.360 And this company consulted with golf courses. They were a 0:07:54.400 --> 0:08:00.600 branch of the Scottish Agricultural College, and they when I arrived, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.800 they said, here's what we'd like you to do. See 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.040 that green Fort Taurus in the parking lot. Here's a 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:12.920 diesel card, go fill it up, drive around and visit 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.840 as many golf courses, meet as many superintendents, secretaries, people 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.400 in golf in Scotland as you have time for, find 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.000 out what kind of problems they have with golf course 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:28.600 maintenance operations, and write a report and come back to us. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:35.280 I mean, so that was such an opportunity to go around, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.600 crash around Scotland and see as many golf courses as 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.000 I could. Of course St Andrews was high on that list. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.760 And a friend of mine from Copenhagen was in a 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.439 petrochemical engineer. We were both engineering students. Was chemical, I 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.800 was civil and structural. He had come to Dundee right 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.839 by Karnusti and he wasn't a golfer, but I was 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.480 going to show him s Andrews. Let's go to s 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.640 Andrews together. And we went down there and we picked 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.600 the week where they had the Jubilee Vaz Tournament, which 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.800 is one of the big amateur events they had, and 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.160 it was such a neat way to see the old 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.839 course for the first time. I read about it and 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.360 all the books and all that stuff, but to see 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.880 it firsthand while top amateurs were playing. It was just 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.480 a very special occasion. And since then I haven't missed 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:28.600 a chance to go back. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.440 With Saint Andrews the first time. So you're watching these 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.920 amateurs play it in the Jubilee and what was the 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.760 one thing that stuck with you the most from that 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.040 first visit to the old course? 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.120 The old writers will talk about the keenness of the turf, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.720 the burnt out fescue turf. I think that to me 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.040 was the most striking, Like this is the firmness of 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.360 the ground, the way the ball would run on the ground, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.280 just the look the true links conditions. And mind you, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.800 this is in ninety two or three or something like that, 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:13.040 so you know it was it was just authentic golf 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.040 and as I had imagined it, and you finally had 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.240 a chance to see it and to watch these guys. 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:20.960 Yeah again just like you see it today. I mean, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:22.520 how do you have to work your way around the 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.960 course and make up shots and deal with the conditions, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.280 deal with the different bounces and situations you get in 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.040 It was just it was magical. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:32.880 All right. 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:37.440 Here is Golf Channels. Shane Bacon and former caddy at 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.200 the Old Course Shane Bacon. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.840 I was actually studying abroad in London my junior year 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:46.760 at college a University of Arizona. I was studied at 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:51.040 a school called University of Westminster, and I didn't have 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:55.520 my golf clubs. My mom actually flew over with my 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.400 golf club Shout out to Eliza Bee. She came over 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.520 to see, you know, in experienced London. Her and my 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.960 aunt came over. We went to Bath, we went to Stonehenge, 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.360 but she traveled with my golf clubs. Also maybe the 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.160 only time in the history at golf where she did 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.840 she put iron headcovers on their irons because they were 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.120 brand new irons, and I was actually happy to see 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.160 iron head covers. But she brought the clubs over in 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.080 about three four weeks later, my uncle Doug, who is 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.600 one of my best friends, you know, my dad's brother. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.160 Unbelievable guy, one of the people I've probably played the 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.960 most golf with in my life. He flew over and 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.040 we did the whole London experience. Then we both went 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.959 up to Saint Andrew's and we had a tea time 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.560 at the Old Course. We stayed at a little bed 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.200 and breakfast in town The guy that had owned its 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.520 name was James Yule, and he took us out. He 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.520 was a member at the new club there that's kind 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.280 of you know, borders the eighteenth fairway, and we had 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.319 a great day. We played obviously, played all eighteen beautiful weather, 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.120 and I was instantly in love with the place. You know, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.160 I was still in college. I didn't know anything about architecture, 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.959 anything about golf courses, and not a ton about golf 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.440 history outside just what i'd read in my you know, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.720 youthful days. But I was hooked. Actually, a funny part 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.079 of it was, I think two or three days later 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.200 we played Kings Barnes. One day we played the new course. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.280 We had Carnoustie on the schedule. We woke up and 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.280 it was awful outside, raining, sideways, cold, windy, and my 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.240 uncle's like, I'm not playing golf in this. You know, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.679 you're going to Scotland, right, You're you're playing weather, You're 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.839 playing in all weather. And he wanted a bail on Carnoussie. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.080 So I went over and snuck out on the old 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.200 course again and I ended up playing with uh with 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.760 three guys from from Denmark. I chipped in for eagle 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:33.760 on ten, which is like the highlight of my trip. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.360 So my first experience in the old course is actually 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.040 two rounds around the old course, unexpectedly since I thought 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.400 I'd be playing around at Carnoustie. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.400 If you know, if you can think back to that 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.160 first trip after year round, was there anything in particular 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.199 about the place that resonated with you, that stuck with you. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.200 I thought I was shocked at how flat it was. 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.040 And then what's interesting is now kind of going back 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.840 a few times and seeing the sunset over all the mounding, 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.360 you know, on those fairways, you realize it's not flat 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.960 at all, but relative to a lot of kind of 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.679 the championship golf and the places we know Stateside. I 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.199 mean you think about the Masters, which as a young person, 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.960 right the Masters is kind of the end all be 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.240 all what you watch and what you love and all 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.480 the mounding and movement. I just remember walking off thinking, man, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.200 this place was flat. I fell I remember I fell 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.560 in love with the par fives. You know, for whatever reason, 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.559 the par fives kind of stuck with me. I just 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.959 thought they were so cool and so unique and so different. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.640 They required so many different types of golf shots. You know, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.400 you think about fourteen. Now, especially with modern equipment from 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.199 the te's that were the old open tees, you probably 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.560 couldn't even hit driver, you know, with any helping wind 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.600 at all, but you could take it down another hole. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.040 I just thought it was like a controlled chaos in 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.800 a way. The whole golf course was so controlled in 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.600 terms of the chaos. But I just remember I walked 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.760 off and we were sitting up there having like a 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.880 tenants beer after with James, and I remember, you know, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.360 looking out in the fairway, just thinking it's pretty flat 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.680 from one to eighteen. Like you don't go up and 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.760 down you much, you know, your stair step around, your 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.319 Apple Watch isn't telling you climb any flights. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:15.400 Hey, you caddied out there and you probably shepherded a 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.600 lot of first timers around. Is there something that you remember, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.400 you know, is there something that seemed to be a 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.160 consistent theme from first timers out there was you know, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.960 I've heard from a lot of people. You know, if 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.320 you don't have a caddy, you have no clue where 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.360 the hell you're going, just. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.160 Zero clues starting on about three. You know, if you 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.880 don't know what you're doing, I would say, you know, 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.080 one of the things that was hard to sell to 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.240 the player, but they would almost all buy into and 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.760 then eventually love doing is the putting from well off 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.160 the green and the bumping runs from well off the green. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.280 I mean, you get a lot of American players that 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.960 were obsessed in love with their sixty degree and from 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.920 the jump right after the first hole, because you can't 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.640 really hit a bump and run on one because of 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.000 the bird. But after the first hole, you know, all 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.920 day it's it's let's use putter, you know, let's use 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.880 six iron, let's use hybrid, those types of things. And 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.120 it normally took till about eight or nine until the 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.400 player really bought in. But when they'd eventually buy in, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.440 the misses and the bad shots were so much better. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.160 So I would say that was probably the number one 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:21.320 thing to try to sell to the player, and everybody 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.920 was first of all, I mean I was twenty three, 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.520 so they're looking at this twenty three old American thinking 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.680 what the hell does this guy know? And so I 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.160 was trying to minimize the doubles. That was always my plan. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.840 Let's not make six, we can put this and make five. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.120 It's amazing if more people, just if you have a 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.760 good caddy that could get you around a golf course. 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.200 You end up doing a lot of things you don't 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.280 want to do. But then you look at your scorecard 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.440 at that end of the day and you're like, oh, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.280 they knew what they were doing. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:50.200 You know. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.960 It's you know, for the higher handicap, it's just like 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.960 just let's just minimize the disasters. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.600 And the bunker. And i'd say one other thing, Andy, 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.120 was when you hit it in a bunker, which is 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.520 inevitable obviously around the old course unless you're Tiger in 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.720 two thousand. I mean, you're gonna find yourself in sand 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.200 talking people out of trying to be a hero. And 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.520 the funny thing is it's not, you know, not right 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.520 against a lip, you know, on a really layered bunker. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.680 It's the sands different. The feel of what you're having 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.320 to do to get out of it is different, the 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.800 amount of swing you must put into a short shot 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.840 is different. And a lot of people mid handicaps, high 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.120 handicaps try to be heroes out of there, and I 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.160 would just consist and consistently tell them, if we just 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.280 get it back in grass, we can play from here. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.400 But let's not try to be a hero, and again 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.040 that would typically start to happen about nine or ten 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.240 when they go Okay, fine, I'm sick of hitting three 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:43.960 shots out of the bunker. I'll start to believe you. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.280 Today's episode is brought to you by the Fried Egg 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.960 and the Fried Egg Pro Shop. We have long sleeve 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.680 T shirts, regular T shirts, and then we have some 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.360 head covers, all sorts of goodies from Seamus Golf, all 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.280 with the Open Championship in mind. We have a logo 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.640 a little play on the road Hall Bunker. So check 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.960 those out at Proshop dot Theofriday dot com. They're really neat. 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.240 I can't wait to get my T shirt and headcover. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:19.919 And now here's former European tour player, golf commentator, writer 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.600 and golf architect Mike Clayton. 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.639 I qualified for the nineteen eighty four Open there, so 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.760 Steve Williams was cutting for me. I had a a burtie. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.760 I think I buried five in the last seven holes 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.439 that leave and to make it so, I turned up 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.240 at Sonata's Wayne Grady, Ian Bakervench and I was sharing 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.479 a house, so grades and I missed the cut, but 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.720 we went to bed on Saturday night thinking that this 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.280 guy in the next bedrooms might win they open tomorrow, 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.560 which of course you didn't. But it was a pretty 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.320 amazing week. So I you know, I loved hit the 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:03.119 history of the game, but it didn't strike anything with 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.000 me at all. I just went there and I didn't 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.639 understand the course. I made thirty two pars, tripled the 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.800 second hole, and made three bogies, missed the cup by 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.959 about three. You know, I just I didn't get it 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.639 at all. I didn't think it was a bad course 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.040 or a great course, or I was just a typically 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.240 dumb you know, mid twenties golf bro who just played golf. 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.439 Do you think do you think you thought that way 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:32.199 because of your because you were playing it in a 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:33.240 professional setting? 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.840 Yeah, And I the only times I've played three opens there, 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.679 and I think you kind of missed the fun of 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.040 it because you're playing. I mean I would I much 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.159 more enjoyed the opens when I went there when I 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:46.840 wasn't playing. 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:47.200 Well. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.920 Of course I wish I would would have been playing, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.280 But you know, it's great fun to go to an 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.720 open and enjoy the week without having the stress of 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.800 playing in it because playing and it's the older ones, 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.240 so you want to play, and I really enjoyed laying 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:05.879 in it. But I didn't really get to understand the 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:11.119 golf course until well, not that anyone ever really fully 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.520 understands it, but when I started to walk around it 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.840 and read about it and write about it and think 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.160 about it and realize how great the holes were, because 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.080 when you're playing, you're just trying to play. You're trying 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:26.879 to get the ball in the hole, and you're not 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.879 standing on the fillith hole thinking this is one of 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.280 the greatest long part fours in golf. We're just trying 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.120 to avoid the bunkers and get on the green and 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:38.520 get out of there. So, you know, I remember going 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.960 there with Peter Fowler, Simon Owen and I were playing 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.879 the senior tournament Famine up the road. We had we 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.240 had we finished dinner early one night at the house 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.600 and we we said, Sid, take us down there and 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.320 show us what happened in nine to seventy eight. So 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.200 he took us down to the sixteenth tee and he 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.199 walked through he and Nicholas play the sixteenth hole and 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.439 where he drove it and where Jack drove it, and 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.320 you know what happened on seventeen because simone was a 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.520 shot in the lead. He chipped in at fifteen to 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.560 go a shot ahead, and he said, we walked onder 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.679 the sixteenth tee and Jack just stared me in the 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.399 eyes and basically he said to me, you can have 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:19.879 this thing if you're good enough, but you're gonna have 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.760 to play me the last three hours. Good luck, son, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.560 And he said, I just completely fell apart. He said, 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.200 I was just there was no way he was always 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.040 going to beat me. But so, you know, that was 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.919 kind of a cool experience. But just walking those holes 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.640 and thinking about why they're great and the questions they 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.520 ask and the multiple ways of playing them, and how 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.440 they change in the wind, and how much different the 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.440 shot is from one side of the fairway versus a 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.119 shot from the other side, and you know, it's the 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.479 model for every course, really, I think. Yeah, And it 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.199 shows It shows why bunkers in the middle of the 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.600 fairways work so well, shows way out of bounds is 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.960 a great hazard, shows why bunkers are great when they're 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:13.000 at one shot penalty and to be avoided at all costs. Yeah, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.800 and they're just great holes all in one place. It's incredible. 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.439 And then eighteen is the best place to It's not 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.320 the best hole, but it's the best place to finish 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.320 around the golf, and I think you miss all those 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.520 things when you're playing. As Tom said in that You 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.600 Know the podcast with Tom, the best way to see 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.320 the Old Course is to walk it on Sunday when 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.720 there's no one out there, and I've often done that, 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.199 and go on there late at night, go out there 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.920 at eight o'clock at or nine o'clock at night, and 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.080 walk around it when there's well, there's always people out there, 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.560 but when you're not worried about balls flying around your head. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.680 So that's you know, the great lesson of the Old 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.639 Course is it's probably the best course in the world, 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.600 but you could never build it now. There's no chance 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.080 that you could. One if you built the seven and 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.439 told they think you were crazy. Build bunkers where you've 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.240