WEBVTT - Out of the Woods 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:07.960 Wind Down and I'm her radio podcast. Hey guys, welcome 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:13.920 to another episode of wine Down. I'm so excited, said 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.599 no one ever. That's such a trigger because that song bombed, 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:22.599 said no one ever. It's still a fun song. Yeah. Um, 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.560 we have an interesting podcast today. By the way, that 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.680 was an interesting start. We can cut it. I was 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.640 just trying to get it to give you something. Um, 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:37.040 we have an interesting podcast today. We have Rachel you 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:42.599 could tell on today. Um, she is one of tigers 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.880 and mistresses Tiger Woods. Yes, I feel like he comments 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.080 like a one nam or. It's like Oprah. You never know. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.920 Our listeners are primarily the other tiger our our listeners 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:02.240 are primarily female. Who's the other tiger? Was King? Okay, yeah, 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:07.959 see exactly there's the only one tiger Tiger King. Who's that? Oh? 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:15.160 I mean I would say, who's the what's the guy's name? Jo? Exotic? Um? 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:21.960 But anyways, so this is going to be interesting. I yeah, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.560 all right, here's the scoop. This is gonna suck for 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:32.360 Jane and I. It's gonna be triggering, it's going to 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:41.000 be uncomfortable, but y'all love that. So you're welcome. You're 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.119 welcome and no, So we're gonna talk to her. We're 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.840 gonna ask you some questions that might even make you, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.600 as a listener, squirm. It's gonna sure as he'll make 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.000 us squirm. Um. But you know, I here's the thing is, 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.120 at the end of the at the end of the day, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.280 Janna and I know we're in a better place now 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.000 than we have been for years in the past, and 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.640 we're going to still be professional about it and address 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.480 address things and you know, make the most of it 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:13.800 just for you know, a learning situation for all of us. Yeah, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.800 I mean, I yeah, I mean it's it stinks because 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.480 of course things come up and things. It's and I 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:23.919 think one of the things that I have a hard 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:25.560 time with is like, oh, why are we you know, 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.920 dragging Mike through the mud again or bringing it back up. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.280 But it's like, this is this is our story. Unfortunately, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:32.800 this one's going to bring up our story a little 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.680 bit more. Um. But it just it sucks for both 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.760 of us, sucks for you, it sucks for me. Um. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:45.680 But I feel like it's interesting because I remember I 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.160 had a conversation since we're going there, let's just go 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.600 there completely. I had a conversation with one of your 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.720 fair girls, And I remember asking her, did you not 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.600 even think about me? Like even after you found out 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.920 who I was and I was pregnant and I was married, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.360 like you didn't like And that's my that's my issue 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.040 with girls like Rachel, did you not think of me? 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:14.160 The wife? And like how that would gut me? Like 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:19.760 I understand, no, I know, And it's the same thing 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.000 for the husband, like why didn't you think of me too? 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:23.600 You know, I know it's two people to tango and 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.079 it's not just her fault, and it's not just Tiger's fault, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.600 it's both of them. You know, it's equally their faults. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.560 But you know, I know that's the same question, like 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.520 why wouldn't you think of me? But then the woman too, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.120 I'm like, you're a woman, Like don't you know that 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.040 you're killing another woman right now? What do you think 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.320 my st mark coming on? Well, I feel like there 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:49.720 is a tendency sometimes and I'm not sure what the 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.200 psychological element that this is, but it does seem to 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.119 be a tendency to blame the woman almost more than 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.080 the man in some of these situations. I'm not talking 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:01.920 about your situation specifically, but does seem like she she 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.880 receives the ire, the the real anger goes to her 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.480 where he's just a dumb guy who did a stupid thing. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.440 But women need to stick together. How can they betray 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.640 each other like that? No, I totally hear you on that. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:19.080 I mean, I I feel like I equally um killed 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.720 both of you in the situation. But um, no, I 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.520 do think the woman gets a bad a worserain name. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.279 I mean, Tiger can move on and he can go 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.880 to winning championships again, and this girl has the scarlet 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:39.880 letter UM on her, So that that sucks, I think 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.360 as a as a woman. But um, you know, I 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:45.880 I don't know. I don't know why. Like I mean, 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:50.640 I know, I remember obviously getting upset with you, but 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.239 when I talked to your one affair, it's like that's 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.480 just what I couldn't understand because I'm just like I 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.800 wanted her to say that she did think of me, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.360 that she did feel sorry, you know, and I don't 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.560 know if there's the empathy there, you know, and it 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.240 felt like such a so I don't know. So I 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:17.000 remember leaving that conversation and just hating how that conversation went. 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.839 And so that's where I feel like it might come 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.800 up super triggering for me because it's just she represents 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.680 all the women that I was like, you know, but 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.840 I hate that. You know, I've had to work past 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:29.920 and I know at the end of the day, it 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:36.000 has nothing to do with you know, me, or it's 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:43.400 just it's just a situation. But yeah, I was just 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.599 gonna say, you know, it's I can totally understand that, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:52.239 like because women, you know, there is that that almost 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:59.760 expectation of women unity, unity against you know, against men 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.760 getting you know, we gotta have each other's back and 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:06.120 all that, and and a guy doing is just an 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:12.279 asshole doing it. And you know, I think the minder 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.400 that I have is just being someone in that situation, 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.719 whether it mail or whether it's the woman or the male, 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.520 neither one of them are thinking about anybody else. Infidelity 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.000 is a selfish act being with someone who's taken as 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.719 a selfish act. So it's you know that questions asked 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.720 like how could you not think of the wife? How 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.400 could you not think of of his kids or whatever? Well, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.800 the truth is they're not because they're thinking selfishly, whether 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:46.240 for their own needs or because the person that they're 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.039 doing it with has painted a different picture than the 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.920 actual reality right where the husband and the wife is like, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.640 oh no, I'm we're separated or I'm leaving them, or no, no, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.640 we're basically divorced, and when really at home that you 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.760 would think the complete opposite. So it's it's all just 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:12.400 it's selfish acts, manipulation, manipulation and selfishness, which I mean 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.240 is unfortunate. Did you say to them where we were 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.080 at like, did you say to them, oh, we're on 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:29.760 the brink of a divorce or when I was pregnant? Ah, 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:35.720 I don't remember. I don't think I ever said anything 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:44.120 like that because I have my own addictive, selfish reasons 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:49.200 I was doing things. But so, yeah, we were you 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.560 gonna say, Mark, I was gonna ask about that conversation. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.920 Did she defend herself? Um? Did she was she? Um? 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.640 Did she regret her actions? She can try? Right? What 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:11.760 was her kind of general demeanor? Defensive? She one that 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.840 I talked to was just like so sorry. And then 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.160 the one other girl I talked to was who was 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:25.800 affected me the most because it was more times she 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.880 she didn't seem apologetic and it really really really upset me. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.800 I wanted her to be. I wanted to feel her apology, 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.560 you know, and I didn't feel like she wasn't She 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.959 didn't even cry like she she was just like, I mean, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.160 I knew you were pregnant, and I knew, like you know, 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.000 but like it wasn't anything. And I'm like, you can't 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:50.679 say it wasn't anything like that's just say you're sorry, 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.199 like show some empathy or something, you know. And granted, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.599 was I nice, No, you know, I was angry and 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.520 I was mean and I said some really mean things. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:05.320 I can own that, and but I think I was 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.800 getting angry because I wasn't getting any empathy. It was 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.880 just like just I don't even remember her even saying sorry. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:18.120 And I think maybe that Han and me made it 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:26.520 worse because yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't know. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.320 I mean, she just kind of blamed it on things, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:31.959 and I'm like, again, I don't want to hear your story. 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.800 I just want you to say you're sorry. That's it. 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.280 I just need you to say you're sorry. And probably 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:38.959 the sorry one wouldn't have done anything for me in 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.560 the moment, but feeling like her sorry would have probably 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.000 helped me here a little bit, because I know it 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:52.560 wasn't just on her. I totally get that. But yeah, 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.240 I mean I have to commend you too for doing this, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.280 for going through this, for doing this interview, for sitting 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.400 here for an hour. I mean, this is can just 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.840 Mike's body language. I mean, I know this is brutal 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.439 for both of you. I hope it's helpful for people 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.040 because I can tell you guys are really going to 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:16.400 struggle through this today. I appreciate it. And yeah, so 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.880 but again we'll make the most of it so people 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:26.439 can hopefully benefit from it because this is you know, yeah, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.559 I just think the best thing is to remember is 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.600 like where we're at now, you know. But those you know, 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.920 those memories are they're deep, and they're down in the 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.520 depths of it, you know. So it's I think that's 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.280 why we fought the most during our book tour, was 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.760 because bringing up those things aren't easy, you know. Now, granted, 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:49.840 we do it because we want to help other people, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.760 you know, but going to the depths of some of 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.640 the things that we talked about in the book and this, 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.320 it's like no wonder why, Like we were fighting those 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.760 two weeks the most we've fought, like entire quarantine because 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.000 we're talking about things that are really hard for both 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:10.080 of us for like seven hours a day. Yeah and yeah, 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:17.160 But you know, I think it's funny that when people 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.400 that have commented on whether this podcasts, are commented on 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:26.640 posts or commented on whatever, and they say or you know, 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:31.880 publications or news or whatever about us, and they say that, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.960 why are why is the media wire so and so 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.440 still making these this couple relevant? They're just trying to 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:45.720 make money off of their problems. And it's just comical 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.439 to Jane and I because we're like, first of all, 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.679 where's the money because we don't see it, And two, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.600 you know, that just goes to show they don't know us. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.240 They're just making these false, you know, assumptions that that's 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:05.320 not who we are as people. Are genuine motivation to 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.240 talk about this stuff is to help those of you 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.559 who have gone through or are going through something similar 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.080 and to try to lessen the blow for people that 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:22.959 are going through this and not positively normalizing the conversation, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.040 but normalizing it to a sense of you don't have 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.480 to live in secret. You can find ways to work 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.600 it out if you want to, if you choose to 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.280 and move past the pain. So hater's gonna hate. But 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.040 you know, because I think either way it's both sides, 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.600 like neither one of us wants to bring up the stuff. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.960 But again, we've seen, you know, we've we've seen the 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.600 benefit of helping people, and you know, yeah, that's what 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.800 drives us. There was a someone that and I just 0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:01.160 need to remind myself of this in you too, right now, um, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.960 she goes. I wanted to drop and say thank you 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.000 the good Fight saving me and my marriage one chapter 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:07.680 at a time. And while I'm sure y'all hear this 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.480 all the time, I really, I really appreciate the bravery 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.079 and vulnerability that went into every page. I feel so 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.960 isolated in the loan, in my personal and marital struggles, 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.920 to the point of feeling paralyzed and expressing my feelings 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.760 and securities and doubts to my husband. Little did he know, 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.400 little did I know, he was feeling the same way. 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.320 And y'all have opened so many doors for us in 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.480 so many ways. We were learning and growing together in 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.720 such immeasurable bounds just by reading and meditating on Ya's 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.360 words each day. God was pulling at my heart to 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.400 read The Good Fight. And now I understand why so 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.400 thank you a million times for sharing your story with 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.560 the world. That's truly saved me. So I think remembering 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:46.160 those things that like it is helpful, even though some 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.640 people that don't understand our story don't understand why we 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.280 have guests like this, and I want to bring up 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.120 these feelings. But hopefully we've done enough therapy and have 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.440 enough tools at the end of this episode we can 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.560 let whatever feeling has come up and not be mean 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.080 and be angry and shame because I know I probably 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:11.560 would say some really mean things afterwards. But you know, anyways, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.439 what's your feeling about Rachel before we get her own? 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.920 The hater honestly, and that's a really mean thing to say. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:23.600 I don't know her, I don't like, but it's she's 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:28.680 the face of someone else I hate, and that's and 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.960 that's where it that's where I feel bad because I 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:33.960 don't know her story, you know. I mean, I know 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:35.680 that she lost them in a nine eleven and that's 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.640 terrible and I can't imagine how that's affected her. But yeah, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.800 she's the face of someone I don't like, and so 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.440 it's going to be hard for me to take the 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:49.960 picture of who I'm picturing and see just her. If 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:55.680 that makes sense. You and Mike have gone through a 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.360 lot together and he's done a lot to work on himself. 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:00.680 Is there a benefit of the to be given to 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.720 her that she's done a lot to work on herself 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.760 over the past ten years and she's not the person 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.320 she once was? Didn't she wasn't? There an article that 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.360 just came out though, that she just broke up another marriage. 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:17.680 That's where I'm kind of like, you know that that well, 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.200 that's what I want to ask her because I'm interested. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.680 You know, I think that I make up that could 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.720 be one of the situations because I read the article 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.920 and the wife was like completely blindsided by this where 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.120 he had to sat down, sit down as three step 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.720 kids they're all from her previous marriage, and basically tell 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:41.080 them like he's basically leaving and started secretly setting up 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.320 things and and moves to get out of there. And 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.120 then like beginning of December, he's like, all right, I'm out, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.080 and she's like the wife said, wait, what the fuck? 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.600 And so I don't know if he had been telling 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.320 Rachel things like we're basically divorced, I don't I want 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.240 out anyway, They're not even my kids, you know. So 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.760 I don't know. Yeah and so, And that's that's where 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.640 I'm not. I'm not justifying people in her situation, whether 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:12.119 male or female. I'm just open to hearing their explanation. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.000 Because if if you sat there and you met someone 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.000 and they told you, yeah, we're separated, barely even talk, 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.360 we're on our way out, papers are filed, you don't 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.160 know for sure. Well, I mean that's kind of our situation. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:30.160 We were separated, and I you know, but I'm saying 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.320 if to you that was reality. But I'm saying if 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.560 at home, that was not at all the case. I see, 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.080 you know, so she's received that information, she's like, oh, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.800 so he's available, he's he's just the paperwork has to 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.240 be processed. So maybe Mark, I don't know, you don't 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.840 know what I mean. That's all I'm saying is you 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:51.960 never know. And I get people. I mean, I have 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.960 people that reach out to that are women on the 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.160 other side that say they're the ones that cheated. And 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.920 again I've been unfaithful, but it hasn't been to a 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:08.880 married man, but um in past relationships. Um. But yeah, 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.920 so I get it happens. I get the heart wants 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.160 what the heart wants. UM. But I think because I've 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:18.919 been in a situation as the wife, that's where I 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.080 think it just hits a little harder personally for me 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:26.240 and for Mike. But for sure, I believe we should 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.560 take a break below the nose and get Rachel on 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.159 alrighty well, Rachel, um, thank you for coming on our 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.719 show with us and winding down and we already interred 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.720 you and you know, talked about some of the things 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.359 along your history and our history and shared open you know, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.280 wounds that we've gone through in our relationship and uh, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.400 to be you know, completely honest. It's triggering for us 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:06.960 to talk about some of the things we want to 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.320 talk about with you, um, you know, because of the 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.600 affairs I had on Jana and you know, this bringing 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.320 up you know, just triggers of her past and mind. UM. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.040 So it's things personally that we're we have done a 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.119 lot of work around, um, individually and as a couple, 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.280 but we always like to talk about these not like 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.879 to we discuss these kind of things with our viewers 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.680 because we understand a lot of this isn't talked about 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.000 in a healthy way. And so having you on, we 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.959 wanted you to be able to express yourself and maybe 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.679 you know things that you've done and things that we 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.720 can expect from you coming up in the future, and 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.000 even what to hear from you on on the documentary 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.760 on HBO. Okay, well, thank you for having me on. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.639 I really appreciate it. I'm um big fans of you guys. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:19:01.040 I have followed you guys along your path and UM 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.040 and I respect what you guys have gone through, and UM, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.920 I'm so glad see you guys sitting together and I 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.520 I'm so honored to be on your show. And out 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.000 of all the interviews that I'm doing, I have to 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:17.120 honestly say I, UM, I am most excited to be 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.320 sitting with you guys through this whole experience, like genuinely 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.000 because love addiction is what UM, I want to talk 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.720 about most like every month Tiger Woods and the fact 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.520 that I'm on the HBO documentary and blah blah blah. Um, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.959 I want to mostly talk about my um journey with 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.160 love addiction and what that's done for me and why 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.120 That's gotten me in the most trouble in my life 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.800 and what I'm doing too, like survive through that and 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:50.920 how I want to help people like UM and the relationships, UM, 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.320 like my life and the trauma I've experienced my life 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.840 and why that's made me go from a relationship to 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:01.520 relationship and why I've been with men who have cheated 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:03.560 and blah blah blah. Anyways, the point is that I'm 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.320 happy to be here with you and here the interview 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.679 that I wanted to do the most. So thank you, 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.440 Thank you. We appreciate that. And I mean, use this 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.959 show as your platform, and we would love to hear 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.240 because we do talk about addiction obviously, Yeah, and I 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:18.439 and I identify as a love addict, so I do 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.639 understand that side too. Um. You know my twenties, that 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.399 was just catching the high and going from relationship to 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.560 relationship and getting that high and then once the high 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:28.400 was over, I would leave. And that's how kind of 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.000 my love addiction. UM. And you know, obviously the Mike 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.679 speaks about his addiction sex addiction as well, So I 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.320 mean we definitely understand that and and want to shed 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.359 more light on the love addiction because I think that's 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:44.520 not UM, people might not understand it as as as much. So, UM, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.879 when did you um start to be like okay, like 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.320 this is this is a thing like and start identifying 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.840 that you are a love addict and seeing the patterns. 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:02.480 So I um was brought onto UM Celebrity Rehab with 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.040 Dr Drew in two thousand and ten and by v 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.639 H one, and I was like, Um, I'm not going 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.560 to do this show. I don't have any addictions. I 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.320 don't really drink, I don't you know, have a substance 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.520 of use edition and um, you know they were paying 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:20.760 me a lot of money to do it. I was 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.720 asked to do The Apprentice, and obviously my name was 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.879 in the press a lot from just a couple of 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:30.280 months before with the tiger thing, and um, they just figured. 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:31.959 I figured they wanted me on the show and they 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.040 were just looking for an addiction. And I sat down 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.439 with Dr Drew. He sat across the table from me. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.080 My my name was all over the press, and he 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.760 looked at me and he said, Okay, stop, I want 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:44.439 you to come on the show, but it's because you 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.639 need help, and you can come on the show for 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.879 whatever you want, but you're a love adict. And I'm like, 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.440 why do you say that? He goes, you lost your father, 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.439 and you lost your father he died of a cocaine overdose. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.600 This was the one man who's supposed to love you unconditionally. 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.720 You don't know what unconditional love is. Then ten years later, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.480 your fiance was killed in the World Trade Center. This 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:07.320 was the one man you were supposed to have like 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.840 a future with and he was taken from you. And 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.520 then ten years later, the media you know, follows you 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:18.600 around and you are seeing as the quintessential homewrecking horror 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.520 mistress whatever, Like, how are you ever going to like 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:26.520 have a normal relationship with a man? And here you 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.520 are every your name is all over the place. You 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.520 are like a complete mess. Like you obviously have major 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.640 issues with understanding what unconditional love is. You're You're You're 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.239 not going to get through life unless you stick with 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.240 me for the next thirty days. So I went into 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.200 treatment with him and dealt with my love addiction issues, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.480 and I sat down and understood that I mistake intensity 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:56.760 for love and that I basically don't date people that 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.720 I do this with, and like I don't date people 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.640 on a straight line. I don't date what he would 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:05.639 call boring, do you know what I mean? Like I 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:09.120 always date toxic people. I always do the push and pull. 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.000 I would like leave, you know, I would, or I would. 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:15.640 I would make people leave because I would want them 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:17.560 to prove that they were going to come back, or 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.720 that they were worthy or I was worthy. Or I 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.560 would pick people that were unattainable. I don't just mean married, 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.320 I just mean whatever the reason was that they were unattainable, 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:31.359 you know, um, and make them prove that they were 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:36.359 going to stay. And UM, you know I also, um, 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.280 you know, there was there was just many reasons. But 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.040 the love addiction was something that was brought up to 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.280 me by Dr Drew and and it ended up fitting 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.679 and UM, It's been something that has weaved through my life, 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.640 my entire life, and it's really affected me. It's made 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.919 me unable to be good at my job. It's been 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.080 unable at some point for me to parent, um, you know, 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.720 because it's really affected me. I've dated really horrible people 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:04.679 that have you know, affected my life in horrible, horrible ways. 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.400 UM to the fact where I've been in physical altercations 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.320 with men that I would never I mean, I would 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:11.879 look at my friends and I would see them get 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:13.600 beat up my boyfriends. I'd be like, how could you 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.120 stay in relationships? Like that and then that became me. 0:24:16.760 --> 0:24:19.399 I was like, how did I become that person? You know? 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:21.840 And I would never think that that would become me? 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:24.280 And then I would go back to them and not 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.679