Speaker 1: Wind Down and I'm her radio podcast. Hey guys, welcome
Speaker 1: to another episode of wine Down. I'm so excited, said
Speaker 1: no one ever. That's such a trigger because that song bombed,
Speaker 1: said no one ever. It's still a fun song. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: we have an interesting podcast today. By the way, that
Speaker 1: was an interesting start. We can cut it. I was
Speaker 1: just trying to get it to give you something. Um,
Speaker 1: we have an interesting podcast today. We have Rachel you
Speaker 1: could tell on today. Um, she is one of tigers
Speaker 1: and mistresses Tiger Woods. Yes, I feel like he comments
Speaker 1: like a one nam or. It's like Oprah. You never know.
Speaker 1: Our listeners are primarily the other tiger our our listeners
Speaker 1: are primarily female. Who's the other tiger? Was King? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: see exactly there's the only one tiger Tiger King. Who's that? Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean I would say, who's the what's the guy's name? Jo? Exotic? Um?
Speaker 1: But anyways, so this is going to be interesting. I yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, here's the scoop. This is gonna suck for
Speaker 1: Jane and I. It's gonna be triggering, it's going to
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable, but y'all love that. So you're welcome. You're
Speaker 1: welcome and no, So we're gonna talk to her. We're
Speaker 1: gonna ask you some questions that might even make you,
Speaker 1: as a listener, squirm. It's gonna sure as he'll make
Speaker 1: us squirm. Um. But you know, I here's the thing is,
Speaker 1: at the end of the at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Janna and I know we're in a better place now
Speaker 1: than we have been for years in the past, and
Speaker 1: we're going to still be professional about it and address
Speaker 1: address things and you know, make the most of it
Speaker 1: just for you know, a learning situation for all of us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I yeah, I mean it's it stinks because
Speaker 1: of course things come up and things. It's and I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that I have a hard
Speaker 1: time with is like, oh, why are we you know,
Speaker 1: dragging Mike through the mud again or bringing it back up.
Speaker 1: But it's like, this is this is our story. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: this one's going to bring up our story a little
Speaker 1: bit more. Um. But it just it sucks for both
Speaker 1: of us, sucks for you, it sucks for me. Um.
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's interesting because I remember I
Speaker 1: had a conversation since we're going there, let's just go
Speaker 1: there completely. I had a conversation with one of your
Speaker 1: fair girls, And I remember asking her, did you not
Speaker 1: even think about me? Like even after you found out
Speaker 1: who I was and I was pregnant and I was married,
Speaker 1: like you didn't like And that's my that's my issue
Speaker 1: with girls like Rachel, did you not think of me?
Speaker 1: The wife? And like how that would gut me? Like
Speaker 1: I understand, no, I know, And it's the same thing
Speaker 1: for the husband, like why didn't you think of me too?
Speaker 1: You know, I know it's two people to tango and
Speaker 1: it's not just her fault, and it's not just Tiger's fault,
Speaker 1: it's both of them. You know, it's equally their faults.
Speaker 1: But you know, I know that's the same question, like
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you think of me? But then the woman too,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're a woman, Like don't you know that
Speaker 1: you're killing another woman right now? What do you think
Speaker 1: my st mark coming on? Well, I feel like there
Speaker 1: is a tendency sometimes and I'm not sure what the
Speaker 1: psychological element that this is, but it does seem to
Speaker 1: be a tendency to blame the woman almost more than
Speaker 1: the man in some of these situations. I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about your situation specifically, but does seem like she she
Speaker 1: receives the ire, the the real anger goes to her
Speaker 1: where he's just a dumb guy who did a stupid thing.
Speaker 1: But women need to stick together. How can they betray
Speaker 1: each other like that? No, I totally hear you on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I feel like I equally um killed
Speaker 1: both of you in the situation. But um, no, I
Speaker 1: do think the woman gets a bad a worserain name.
Speaker 1: I mean, Tiger can move on and he can go
Speaker 1: to winning championships again, and this girl has the scarlet
Speaker 1: letter UM on her, So that that sucks, I think
Speaker 1: as a as a woman. But um, you know, I
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, I remember obviously getting upset with you, but
Speaker 1: when I talked to your one affair, it's like that's
Speaker 1: just what I couldn't understand because I'm just like I
Speaker 1: wanted her to say that she did think of me,
Speaker 1: that she did feel sorry, you know, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's the empathy there, you know, and it
Speaker 1: felt like such a so I don't know. So I
Speaker 1: remember leaving that conversation and just hating how that conversation went.
Speaker 1: And so that's where I feel like it might come
Speaker 1: up super triggering for me because it's just she represents
Speaker 1: all the women that I was like, you know, but
Speaker 1: I hate that. You know, I've had to work past
Speaker 1: and I know at the end of the day, it
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you know, me, or it's
Speaker 1: just it's just a situation. But yeah, I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, you know, it's I can totally understand that,
Speaker 1: like because women, you know, there is that that almost
Speaker 1: expectation of women unity, unity against you know, against men
Speaker 1: getting you know, we gotta have each other's back and
Speaker 1: all that, and and a guy doing is just an
Speaker 1: asshole doing it. And you know, I think the minder
Speaker 1: that I have is just being someone in that situation,
Speaker 1: whether it mail or whether it's the woman or the male,
Speaker 1: neither one of them are thinking about anybody else. Infidelity
Speaker 1: is a selfish act being with someone who's taken as
Speaker 1: a selfish act. So it's you know that questions asked
Speaker 1: like how could you not think of the wife? How
Speaker 1: could you not think of of his kids or whatever? Well,
Speaker 1: the truth is they're not because they're thinking selfishly, whether
Speaker 1: for their own needs or because the person that they're
Speaker 1: doing it with has painted a different picture than the
Speaker 1: actual reality right where the husband and the wife is like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm we're separated or I'm leaving them, or no, no,
Speaker 1: we're basically divorced, and when really at home that you
Speaker 1: would think the complete opposite. So it's it's all just
Speaker 1: it's selfish acts, manipulation, manipulation and selfishness, which I mean
Speaker 1: is unfortunate. Did you say to them where we were
Speaker 1: at like, did you say to them, oh, we're on
Speaker 1: the brink of a divorce or when I was pregnant? Ah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I don't think I ever said anything
Speaker 1: like that because I have my own addictive, selfish reasons
Speaker 1: I was doing things. But so, yeah, we were you
Speaker 1: gonna say, Mark, I was gonna ask about that conversation.
Speaker 1: Did she defend herself? Um? Did she was she? Um?
Speaker 1: Did she regret her actions? She can try? Right? What
Speaker 1: was her kind of general demeanor? Defensive? She one that
Speaker 1: I talked to was just like so sorry. And then
Speaker 1: the one other girl I talked to was who was
Speaker 1: affected me the most because it was more times she
Speaker 1: she didn't seem apologetic and it really really really upset me.
Speaker 1: I wanted her to be. I wanted to feel her apology,
Speaker 1: you know, and I didn't feel like she wasn't She
Speaker 1: didn't even cry like she she was just like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I knew you were pregnant, and I knew, like you know,
Speaker 1: but like it wasn't anything. And I'm like, you can't
Speaker 1: say it wasn't anything like that's just say you're sorry,
Speaker 1: like show some empathy or something, you know. And granted,
Speaker 1: was I nice, No, you know, I was angry and
Speaker 1: I was mean and I said some really mean things.
Speaker 1: I can own that, and but I think I was
Speaker 1: getting angry because I wasn't getting any empathy. It was
Speaker 1: just like just I don't even remember her even saying sorry.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe that Han and me made it
Speaker 1: worse because yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, she just kind of blamed it on things,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, again, I don't want to hear your story.
Speaker 1: I just want you to say you're sorry. That's it.
Speaker 1: I just need you to say you're sorry. And probably
Speaker 1: the sorry one wouldn't have done anything for me in
Speaker 1: the moment, but feeling like her sorry would have probably
Speaker 1: helped me here a little bit, because I know it
Speaker 1: wasn't just on her. I totally get that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have to commend you too for doing this,
Speaker 1: for going through this, for doing this interview, for sitting
Speaker 1: here for an hour. I mean, this is can just
Speaker 1: Mike's body language. I mean, I know this is brutal
Speaker 1: for both of you. I hope it's helpful for people
Speaker 1: because I can tell you guys are really going to
Speaker 1: struggle through this today. I appreciate it. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: but again we'll make the most of it so people
Speaker 1: can hopefully benefit from it because this is you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just think the best thing is to remember is
Speaker 1: like where we're at now, you know. But those you know,
Speaker 1: those memories are they're deep, and they're down in the
Speaker 1: depths of it, you know. So it's I think that's
Speaker 1: why we fought the most during our book tour, was
Speaker 1: because bringing up those things aren't easy, you know. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: we do it because we want to help other people,
Speaker 1: you know, but going to the depths of some of
Speaker 1: the things that we talked about in the book and this,
Speaker 1: it's like no wonder why, Like we were fighting those
Speaker 1: two weeks the most we've fought, like entire quarantine because
Speaker 1: we're talking about things that are really hard for both
Speaker 1: of us for like seven hours a day. Yeah and yeah,
Speaker 1: But you know, I think it's funny that when people
Speaker 1: that have commented on whether this podcasts, are commented on
Speaker 1: posts or commented on whatever, and they say or you know,
Speaker 1: publications or news or whatever about us, and they say that,
Speaker 1: why are why is the media wire so and so
Speaker 1: still making these this couple relevant? They're just trying to
Speaker 1: make money off of their problems. And it's just comical
Speaker 1: to Jane and I because we're like, first of all,
Speaker 1: where's the money because we don't see it, And two,
Speaker 1: you know, that just goes to show they don't know us.
Speaker 1: They're just making these false, you know, assumptions that that's
Speaker 1: not who we are as people. Are genuine motivation to
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff is to help those of you
Speaker 1: who have gone through or are going through something similar
Speaker 1: and to try to lessen the blow for people that
Speaker 1: are going through this and not positively normalizing the conversation,
Speaker 1: but normalizing it to a sense of you don't have
Speaker 1: to live in secret. You can find ways to work
Speaker 1: it out if you want to, if you choose to
Speaker 1: and move past the pain. So hater's gonna hate. But
Speaker 1: you know, because I think either way it's both sides,
Speaker 1: like neither one of us wants to bring up the stuff.
Speaker 1: But again, we've seen, you know, we've we've seen the
Speaker 1: benefit of helping people, and you know, yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: drives us. There was a someone that and I just
Speaker 1: need to remind myself of this in you too, right now, um,
Speaker 1: she goes. I wanted to drop and say thank you
Speaker 1: the good Fight saving me and my marriage one chapter
Speaker 1: at a time. And while I'm sure y'all hear this
Speaker 1: all the time, I really, I really appreciate the bravery
Speaker 1: and vulnerability that went into every page. I feel so
Speaker 1: isolated in the loan, in my personal and marital struggles,
Speaker 1: to the point of feeling paralyzed and expressing my feelings
Speaker 1: and securities and doubts to my husband. Little did he know,
Speaker 1: little did I know, he was feeling the same way.
Speaker 1: And y'all have opened so many doors for us in
Speaker 1: so many ways. We were learning and growing together in
Speaker 1: such immeasurable bounds just by reading and meditating on Ya's
Speaker 1: words each day. God was pulling at my heart to
Speaker 1: read The Good Fight. And now I understand why so
Speaker 1: thank you a million times for sharing your story with
Speaker 1: the world. That's truly saved me. So I think remembering
Speaker 1: those things that like it is helpful, even though some
Speaker 1: people that don't understand our story don't understand why we
Speaker 1: have guests like this, and I want to bring up
Speaker 1: these feelings. But hopefully we've done enough therapy and have
Speaker 1: enough tools at the end of this episode we can
Speaker 1: let whatever feeling has come up and not be mean
Speaker 1: and be angry and shame because I know I probably
Speaker 1: would say some really mean things afterwards. But you know, anyways,
Speaker 1: what's your feeling about Rachel before we get her own?
Speaker 1: The hater honestly, and that's a really mean thing to say.
Speaker 1: I don't know her, I don't like, but it's she's
Speaker 1: the face of someone else I hate, and that's and
Speaker 1: that's where it that's where I feel bad because I
Speaker 1: don't know her story, you know. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: that she lost them in a nine eleven and that's
Speaker 1: terrible and I can't imagine how that's affected her. But yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the face of someone I don't like, and so
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard for me to take the
Speaker 1: picture of who I'm picturing and see just her. If
Speaker 1: that makes sense. You and Mike have gone through a
Speaker 1: lot together and he's done a lot to work on himself.
Speaker 1: Is there a benefit of the to be given to
Speaker 1: her that she's done a lot to work on herself
Speaker 1: over the past ten years and she's not the person
Speaker 1: she once was? Didn't she wasn't? There an article that
Speaker 1: just came out though, that she just broke up another marriage.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm kind of like, you know that that well,
Speaker 1: that's what I want to ask her because I'm interested.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that I make up that could
Speaker 1: be one of the situations because I read the article
Speaker 1: and the wife was like completely blindsided by this where
Speaker 1: he had to sat down, sit down as three step
Speaker 1: kids they're all from her previous marriage, and basically tell
Speaker 1: them like he's basically leaving and started secretly setting up
Speaker 1: things and and moves to get out of there. And
Speaker 1: then like beginning of December, he's like, all right, I'm out,
Speaker 1: and she's like the wife said, wait, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: And so I don't know if he had been telling
Speaker 1: Rachel things like we're basically divorced, I don't I want
Speaker 1: out anyway, They're not even my kids, you know. So
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah and so, And that's that's where
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not justifying people in her situation, whether
Speaker 1: male or female. I'm just open to hearing their explanation.
Speaker 1: Because if if you sat there and you met someone
Speaker 1: and they told you, yeah, we're separated, barely even talk,
Speaker 1: we're on our way out, papers are filed, you don't
Speaker 1: know for sure. Well, I mean that's kind of our situation.
Speaker 1: We were separated, and I you know, but I'm saying
Speaker 1: if to you that was reality. But I'm saying if
Speaker 1: at home, that was not at all the case. I see,
Speaker 1: you know, so she's received that information, she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: so he's available, he's he's just the paperwork has to
Speaker 1: be processed. So maybe Mark, I don't know, you don't
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's all I'm saying is you
Speaker 1: never know. And I get people. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: people that reach out to that are women on the
Speaker 1: other side that say they're the ones that cheated. And
Speaker 1: again I've been unfaithful, but it hasn't been to a
Speaker 1: married man, but um in past relationships. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so I get it happens. I get the heart wants
Speaker 1: what the heart wants. UM. But I think because I've
Speaker 1: been in a situation as the wife, that's where I
Speaker 1: think it just hits a little harder personally for me
Speaker 1: and for Mike. But for sure, I believe we should
Speaker 1: take a break below the nose and get Rachel on
Speaker 1: alrighty well, Rachel, um, thank you for coming on our
Speaker 1: show with us and winding down and we already interred
Speaker 1: you and you know, talked about some of the things
Speaker 1: along your history and our history and shared open you know,
Speaker 1: wounds that we've gone through in our relationship and uh,
Speaker 1: to be you know, completely honest. It's triggering for us
Speaker 1: to talk about some of the things we want to
Speaker 1: talk about with you, um, you know, because of the
Speaker 1: affairs I had on Jana and you know, this bringing
Speaker 1: up you know, just triggers of her past and mind. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's things personally that we're we have done a
Speaker 1: lot of work around, um, individually and as a couple,
Speaker 1: but we always like to talk about these not like
Speaker 1: to we discuss these kind of things with our viewers
Speaker 1: because we understand a lot of this isn't talked about
Speaker 1: in a healthy way. And so having you on, we
Speaker 1: wanted you to be able to express yourself and maybe
Speaker 1: you know things that you've done and things that we
Speaker 1: can expect from you coming up in the future, and
Speaker 1: even what to hear from you on on the documentary
Speaker 1: on HBO. Okay, well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. I'm um big fans of you guys.
Speaker 1: I have followed you guys along your path and UM
Speaker 1: and I respect what you guys have gone through, and UM,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad see you guys sitting together and I
Speaker 1: I'm so honored to be on your show. And out
Speaker 1: of all the interviews that I'm doing, I have to
Speaker 1: honestly say I, UM, I am most excited to be
Speaker 1: sitting with you guys through this whole experience, like genuinely
Speaker 1: because love addiction is what UM, I want to talk
Speaker 1: about most like every month Tiger Woods and the fact
Speaker 1: that I'm on the HBO documentary and blah blah blah. Um,
Speaker 1: I want to mostly talk about my um journey with
Speaker 1: love addiction and what that's done for me and why
Speaker 1: That's gotten me in the most trouble in my life
Speaker 1: and what I'm doing too, like survive through that and
Speaker 1: how I want to help people like UM and the relationships, UM,
Speaker 1: like my life and the trauma I've experienced my life
Speaker 1: and why that's made me go from a relationship to
Speaker 1: relationship and why I've been with men who have cheated
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. Anyways, the point is that I'm
Speaker 1: happy to be here with you and here the interview
Speaker 1: that I wanted to do the most. So thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you. We appreciate that. And I mean, use this
Speaker 1: show as your platform, and we would love to hear
Speaker 1: because we do talk about addiction obviously, Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: and I identify as a love addict, so I do
Speaker 1: understand that side too. Um. You know my twenties, that
Speaker 1: was just catching the high and going from relationship to
Speaker 1: relationship and getting that high and then once the high
Speaker 1: was over, I would leave. And that's how kind of
Speaker 1: my love addiction. UM. And you know, obviously the Mike
Speaker 1: speaks about his addiction sex addiction as well, So I
Speaker 1: mean we definitely understand that and and want to shed
Speaker 1: more light on the love addiction because I think that's
Speaker 1: not UM, people might not understand it as as as much. So, UM,
Speaker 1: when did you um start to be like okay, like
Speaker 1: this is this is a thing like and start identifying
Speaker 1: that you are a love addict and seeing the patterns.
Speaker 1: So I um was brought onto UM Celebrity Rehab with
Speaker 1: Dr Drew in two thousand and ten and by v
Speaker 1: H one, and I was like, Um, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do this show. I don't have any addictions. I
Speaker 1: don't really drink, I don't you know, have a substance
Speaker 1: of use edition and um, you know they were paying
Speaker 1: me a lot of money to do it. I was
Speaker 1: asked to do The Apprentice, and obviously my name was
Speaker 1: in the press a lot from just a couple of
Speaker 1: months before with the tiger thing, and um, they just figured.
Speaker 1: I figured they wanted me on the show and they
Speaker 1: were just looking for an addiction. And I sat down
Speaker 1: with Dr Drew. He sat across the table from me.
Speaker 1: My my name was all over the press, and he
Speaker 1: looked at me and he said, Okay, stop, I want
Speaker 1: you to come on the show, but it's because you
Speaker 1: need help, and you can come on the show for
Speaker 1: whatever you want, but you're a love adict. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: why do you say that? He goes, you lost your father,
Speaker 1: and you lost your father he died of a cocaine overdose.
Speaker 1: This was the one man who's supposed to love you unconditionally.
Speaker 1: You don't know what unconditional love is. Then ten years later,
Speaker 1: your fiance was killed in the World Trade Center. This
Speaker 1: was the one man you were supposed to have like
Speaker 1: a future with and he was taken from you. And
Speaker 1: then ten years later, the media you know, follows you
Speaker 1: around and you are seeing as the quintessential homewrecking horror
Speaker 1: mistress whatever, Like, how are you ever going to like
Speaker 1: have a normal relationship with a man? And here you
Speaker 1: are every your name is all over the place. You
Speaker 1: are like a complete mess. Like you obviously have major
Speaker 1: issues with understanding what unconditional love is. You're You're You're
Speaker 1: not going to get through life unless you stick with
Speaker 1: me for the next thirty days. So I went into
Speaker 1: treatment with him and dealt with my love addiction issues,
Speaker 1: and I sat down and understood that I mistake intensity
Speaker 1: for love and that I basically don't date people that
Speaker 1: I do this with, and like I don't date people
Speaker 1: on a straight line. I don't date what he would
Speaker 1: call boring, do you know what I mean? Like I
Speaker 1: always date toxic people. I always do the push and pull.
Speaker 1: I would like leave, you know, I would, or I would.
Speaker 1: I would make people leave because I would want them
Speaker 1: to prove that they were going to come back, or
Speaker 1: that they were worthy or I was worthy. Or I
Speaker 1: would pick people that were unattainable. I don't just mean married,
Speaker 1: I just mean whatever the reason was that they were unattainable,
Speaker 1: you know, um, and make them prove that they were
Speaker 1: going to stay. And UM, you know I also, um,
Speaker 1: you know, there was there was just many reasons. But
Speaker 1: the love addiction was something that was brought up to
Speaker 1: me by Dr Drew and and it ended up fitting
Speaker 1: and UM, It's been something that has weaved through my life,
Speaker 1: my entire life, and it's really affected me. It's made
Speaker 1: me unable to be good at my job. It's been
Speaker 1: unable at some point for me to parent, um, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's really affected me. I've dated really horrible people
Speaker 1: that have you know, affected my life in horrible, horrible ways.
Speaker 1: UM to the fact where I've been in physical altercations
Speaker 1: with men that I would never I mean, I would
Speaker 1: look at my friends and I would see them get
Speaker 1: beat up my boyfriends. I'd be like, how could you
Speaker 1: stay in relationships? Like that and then that became me.
Speaker 1: I was like, how did I become that person? You know?
Speaker 1: And I would never think that that would become me?
Speaker 1: And then I would go back to them and not
Speaker 1: understand you know, um anyway, So how did it? How
Speaker 1: did it feel? When Doctor Drew addressed that with you,
Speaker 1: was like, you have issues like your love addict. Were
Speaker 1: you like dismissive of it? Were you defensive about it?
Speaker 1: Or was it something that resonated pretty immediately? Well? When
Speaker 1: he said that to me, I was like, that's not
Speaker 1: a thing. That is so dumb. I mean literally the
Speaker 1: words that came out of my mouth were that is
Speaker 1: so stupid. That is just a made up thing. Love
Speaker 1: addiction is um sounds made up. Um. But then I
Speaker 1: started to realize that it was the the signs were real,
Speaker 1: um things. You know that I was constantly in love
Speaker 1: with being in love and I would you know, I
Speaker 1: think everyone knows someone that's a love at it. They're
Speaker 1: like constantly in relationships with people, or they're like moving
Speaker 1: in with someone they just met, or um, you know,
Speaker 1: they're putting a bag over the person the reality of
Speaker 1: the person that they just met, right. They don't want
Speaker 1: to see the reality of the person UM that they
Speaker 1: that they just met or that they even know, and
Speaker 1: they don't want to see the real things. And then
Speaker 1: when they do, um see the real signs, they like
Speaker 1: want to dismiss it and uh. And then there's a
Speaker 1: whole cycle of this and there becomes an anger when
Speaker 1: you see the real um signs of the person and
Speaker 1: they feel disappointed. And I think a lot of love
Speaker 1: addicts are date sex addicts, and that becomes an issue
Speaker 1: because there's a push and pull of that because sex
Speaker 1: addicts are usually attracted to love addicts and love addicts
Speaker 1: are attracted to sex addicts, and UM, there's a power
Speaker 1: pull there and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's just what happens and UM, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of cheating that goes on. I mean, there's just a
Speaker 1: natural cycle that happens and UM. And I think the
Speaker 1: common bond is this, UM, there's an an intimacy thing
Speaker 1: UM and no one wants to be left. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, UM, you know, the sex addict doesn't
Speaker 1: want the intimacy and the love addict wants the intimacy,
Speaker 1: and so you have this huge explosion of problems. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no question. I mean that that definitely resonates with us.
Speaker 1: And like as a woman and you and you you're
Speaker 1: open now about you know, being a love addict and
Speaker 1: you're knowing you're understanding your story more. How has how
Speaker 1: has the reception been? Because I know as a male, right,
Speaker 1: like a lot of what I've heard is, oh, sex addiction,
Speaker 1: that's a married man's disease. You know, from a woman's perspective,
Speaker 1: how have you been? How has that been received? When
Speaker 1: you've expressed to people, well, I'm a love addict, and
Speaker 1: it's not an excuse of why you've done what you've done.
Speaker 1: But what I tell Jan is it's an explanation of
Speaker 1: some behaviors in your life. I think that like a
Speaker 1: lot of people will say, the sex addict is the
Speaker 1: man's problem and the love addict is a woman's problem.
Speaker 1: Right that they're going to say that that's one or
Speaker 1: the other, and I think that that's well or or
Speaker 1: you know, the man will portray the woman and then
Speaker 1: the man will try to use um sex addict addiction
Speaker 1: and say, okay, well I'll just go to rehab for
Speaker 1: sex addiction and I'm sorry, And then they come home
Speaker 1: like they'll sort of blame it on that also and
Speaker 1: then say okay, I'll come home. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: very big truth to that that there that there is
Speaker 1: an addiction. But I think a lot of men, I
Speaker 1: mean listen, I know a lot of men will then
Speaker 1: go off and do that and then come home as
Speaker 1: a as an excuse, right, So I mean women do
Speaker 1: it too though. I mean it's you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of people cheap because they're just not happy at home.
Speaker 1: And there's something to be said for marriage is hard, right,
Speaker 1: You've got to make it work. There's a partnership. There's
Speaker 1: a difference with me. I mean, I want to witness
Speaker 1: to my life. There's something to be said for like
Speaker 1: you too, you have a history. You you have there's
Speaker 1: a bond there, that's a history and a knowledge. When
Speaker 1: you go off with another woman, you don't know that woman.
Speaker 1: You don't have an intimacy there. You don't know ins
Speaker 1: and outs of what um she likes to eat and
Speaker 1: drink and why she gets upset about the way she uh,
Speaker 1: you know about things that are between the two of you.
Speaker 1: Like you, guys have a bond and a life, a
Speaker 1: history and a and a knowledge of what you guys
Speaker 1: have there's an US that this other person doesn't have, right,
Speaker 1: and that makes you guys and us and makes you special.
Speaker 1: This other woman doesn't have that. She has a one
Speaker 1: night and and I think that there's something so much
Speaker 1: more in in the witness to your life than the
Speaker 1: one night stand. Right. But that's what I want in
Speaker 1: my life, and that's what like, that's where the connection
Speaker 1: comes from. And um, that's what like the attraction of
Speaker 1: being a relationship is, um and that's what I'm always
Speaker 1: looking for. So these people that go off and have
Speaker 1: these one night flings, it's um. You know. I think
Speaker 1: that that's like a very empty thing to go off
Speaker 1: to and what people have to remember that that's that
Speaker 1: really becomes nothing. And hopefully you you realize that you
Speaker 1: want the US and that you you that that becomes
Speaker 1: what you strive for and that you work for, and
Speaker 1: that marriage is is what you're striving for, and that
Speaker 1: that's the healing that you want to work on. The US. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I hear, I'm I hear all of that,
Speaker 1: and I can definitely relate to some of it. Um.
Speaker 1: I think I think what's like hardest in this situation
Speaker 1: is um, like I never got I never got empathy
Speaker 1: from one of his one of his main affair girls.
Speaker 1: And I always wondered, like do they not think about
Speaker 1: the wife? You know? And when you're in that situation,
Speaker 1: like is it just are we just not thought about?
Speaker 1: Because Michael saying it's like he's it's like it's a
Speaker 1: very selfish act, like it's it's you know, it's you know,
Speaker 1: he didn't think about me, you know. So it's like
Speaker 1: is that just kind of because I want the women
Speaker 1: out there that have been in my situation too, and
Speaker 1: vice versa or the men or but like that, it's
Speaker 1: um question, Can I ask you a question? Because I
Speaker 1: didn't hear how you how you introde me, So I
Speaker 1: have a really interesting question for you. What's your reaction
Speaker 1: to something? And like me, then, well this is and
Speaker 1: this is where I feel really bad because I was
Speaker 1: like and I think my direct quote was as like
Speaker 1: I hate her because but I don't hate you. I
Speaker 1: hate his affair girls, but I label everybody that's cheated
Speaker 1: on someone that girl, you know what I mean? But
Speaker 1: I hear like hearing your story now, I'm like I
Speaker 1: get it, Like I'm a love addict. I can understand,
Speaker 1: like I can understand those things. Um, I think I
Speaker 1: just have so much hate for his affair girls that
Speaker 1: I when I the first thought of this is like, like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: because I would you want to? Like why would you
Speaker 1: want to interview me? Because I didn't even think of
Speaker 1: that until you just said that, Like why would you
Speaker 1: want to interview someone like me? When I'm someone to
Speaker 1: you like who he's who he's cheated on you with.
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that until you just said that.
Speaker 1: But and I feel it didn't even occur to me
Speaker 1: and I and that's a horrible thing to say. No,
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry that because you know, it's rude to
Speaker 1: say that I hate someone that I don't even know,
Speaker 1: because people say that about us, they hate me. I
Speaker 1: get people and you know, and that's really rude. And
Speaker 1: I'm well, because you know people, people don't like people
Speaker 1: for different reasons. But I want to apologize because I
Speaker 1: should never have said I don't know you, you you know,
Speaker 1: and I don't know your story and now I'm learning
Speaker 1: your story. But I want to apologize because that's not
Speaker 1: fair of me to label you for the face of
Speaker 1: someone else, you know, because you have a story and
Speaker 1: everyone has their story. Sorry this is but like, so
Speaker 1: I'm I apologize for just straight up being like, now
Speaker 1: I hate her. I don't that's she cheated. She's she's
Speaker 1: the who cheated, probably with my husband, you know. So
Speaker 1: I really am so sorry for just not getting to
Speaker 1: know your story before I passed judgment, because I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've gotten that judgment from a lot of people. So
Speaker 1: that's why I did the documentary because I go through
Speaker 1: life with people hating me like I did something personally
Speaker 1: to them and personally hurt them, personally, offended them, personally,
Speaker 1: did something to them with such a vengeance. They hate
Speaker 1: me with a passion when I did nothing to them personally.
Speaker 1: And you're the first person that like has caused because
Speaker 1: your husband did something similar, right, and like that's still
Speaker 1: not right, no, but like no, but you're the first
Speaker 1: person that like we're having this conversation that like I
Speaker 1: get it because your husband like literally did something and
Speaker 1: and it makes sense though, right, so I get it,
Speaker 1: and I feel and I but I feel like I
Speaker 1: know why you have that hatred, right, And I feel horrible.
Speaker 1: I feel I feel horrible, but you have to realize
Speaker 1: I didn't do it to you. And I've had I've
Speaker 1: had to feel hatred like your hatred of me for
Speaker 1: ten years. And I didn't do that to you. I
Speaker 1: did it for someone else, and I feel horrible, but
Speaker 1: I didn't do it to you, and I hope you
Speaker 1: realize that. And I'm sorry that you hate I didn't
Speaker 1: do it to you, though, And I'm your husband, thank you.
Speaker 1: I've all I've always loved you, but I would never
Speaker 1: keep you know like I didn't do it to you.
Speaker 1: So I just want you to know that. And I'm
Speaker 1: sorry for the mistakes that your husband made. I I
Speaker 1: would hope like I'm in support of you, guys. I
Speaker 1: want you to know that I support you guys so much.
Speaker 1: I hope that, I really hope that your husband doesn't
Speaker 1: make mistakes like that again. I hope. I want you
Speaker 1: guys to succeed so much. I'm there for you guys
Speaker 1: so much, and I want you guys to succeed. But
Speaker 1: I didn't make that mistake, and and I just want
Speaker 1: you to know that, and I and I and I
Speaker 1: do and I appreciate you saying that. I think it's
Speaker 1: a huge lesson for women that have been cheated on
Speaker 1: or vice versa, to know that it's not um, just
Speaker 1: because someone else did doesn't mean that they're a bad person.
Speaker 1: Or again saying like, because you didn't do that to me,
Speaker 1: you were the you're the face and the story of
Speaker 1: what you know, but you're not the person. You're not
Speaker 1: You're not You're not them. And um, and I can't
Speaker 1: imagine living those years with so many people just hating
Speaker 1: on you and not getting to know you because I
Speaker 1: make up. But that's exhausting and it's it's it's hurtful
Speaker 1: and um yeah, I and I just because of um,
Speaker 1: of a feeling you had with someone that you loved
Speaker 1: or liked or whatever. So you know, I am, I
Speaker 1: am sorry about that. I can't imagine that. I bet
Speaker 1: that's really hard. Yeah. Well, and I you know it's
Speaker 1: and again I I I'm so sorry. And you know
Speaker 1: I would hope I'm sorry to hear that she wasn't apathetic. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree. Totally sucks and you should make her apologize
Speaker 1: by the way, Um well, I guess we shouldn't. We
Speaker 1: shouldn't talk to her anymore, so she sucks, um um.
Speaker 1: But that's not how she should have handled it. Quite frankly.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know anything about her, so um,
Speaker 1: but she should feel sorry she but you know, anyway,
Speaker 1: we won't talk about her anymore. UM. Mike's like, thank god,
Speaker 1: moving on, okay, sorry, no, you're good, Rachel. We've gotten
Speaker 1: this question a lot from people about how are we
Speaker 1: going to talk to our kids when they get of
Speaker 1: age with things? And we know you have a daughter
Speaker 1: who's ten eight. I'm sorry, UM, how have you have
Speaker 1: you addressed things with her? What are your plans to
Speaker 1: or you know kind of things are around that. UM,
Speaker 1: I haven't, but you know she for example, today she
Speaker 1: just saw uh an ad for like the Tiger the
Speaker 1: Tiger doc and she she mentioned it. So she's smart enough.
Speaker 1: She's also you know, she's been alive for all of this,
Speaker 1: meaning she's seen paparazzi follow me. She's she's been alive
Speaker 1: for all of this. She's never mentioned anything to me
Speaker 1: or said anything, um, directly, but she's always been around
Speaker 1: for it. So when she sees paparazzi outside, she lifts
Speaker 1: her mask up. She's but she's never directly said anything.
Speaker 1: At some point I'll have to address something with her.
Speaker 1: But I always just try to um raise her the
Speaker 1: best way I can try to give her the best
Speaker 1: skills that I know how, UM, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to answer that with her, but UM,
Speaker 1: I will definitely UM relationships will will definitely be something
Speaker 1: that is important to bring up with her and UM.
Speaker 1: You know, I've definitely had a horrible history with her
Speaker 1: dad and me, so UM making sure I talked to
Speaker 1: her about relationships with UM. Boys will be something that
Speaker 1: I definitely talked to her about, like as she starts
Speaker 1: to get interested in boys or whatever it is, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I make sure that she is careful about her picker.
Speaker 1: I want I had a horrible picker, you know, and
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that she has a good one,
Speaker 1: you know, and that she's picking the right friends and
Speaker 1: the right people because growing up is hard. Having the
Speaker 1: right girlfriends is hard, you know. UM people can be mean,
Speaker 1: and I'm really protective of her, UM I you know,
Speaker 1: UH people are horrible to me still, and so I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that I um um um UM
Speaker 1: teaching her right UM skills, that she's not a bully,
Speaker 1: that no one's a bully to her. And that, um,
Speaker 1: whatever happens to me, I have fixed it skin and
Speaker 1: nothing is trickling down on her, you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of impairing the similar similarities you and I have. I
Speaker 1: was also an abusive relationship and even after he tried
Speaker 1: to kill me, I went back and slept with him
Speaker 1: that night, Like just that that addiction with with love.
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of people ask me like,
Speaker 1: do do I have regrets with some of the relationships
Speaker 1: that I that I've been in, And I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 1: because you know, it's it's made me a stronger person,
Speaker 1: or I've learned so much about myself. And granted, I'm
Speaker 1: sure for you it's like, yeah, I would you have
Speaker 1: wanted to have all the scrutiny the last however many years,
Speaker 1: So I mean maybe you might have regrets, but at
Speaker 1: the same time, now you're able to identify this love
Speaker 1: addiction and then and then be able to have a
Speaker 1: healthy relationship moving forward. So is that do you feel
Speaker 1: the kind of the same way or or are you like, no,
Speaker 1: I regret this or we always have regrets, right, but
Speaker 1: you always learn when you fall. Now you want to
Speaker 1: fall forward, right, so you try and say, oh, Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm glad I had these mistakes because every broken road
Speaker 1: leads you to the next road forward, right, So I mean,
Speaker 1: do I wish my life changed in the past. I
Speaker 1: mean no, because I'm glad about who I am, because
Speaker 1: I don't want to change anything about me, because now
Speaker 1: I have every tool I have to move forward. I think.
Speaker 1: I know I'm a really smart person and the most
Speaker 1: resourceful person. I know. I could get through any situation,
Speaker 1: uh that you asked me to by myself. I don't
Speaker 1: need anyone to rely on. And I could literally get
Speaker 1: myself out of any situation and figure it out and
Speaker 1: move forward. And it's from every lesson that I've been through.
Speaker 1: Um and I can handle it. I haven't not. I
Speaker 1: figured out how to attack anything, you know, by myself.
Speaker 1: So I'm happy that I've been to everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are people I know that haven't been through divorces, tragedies, chaos, situation.
Speaker 1: I could literally juggle everything. So do I want to
Speaker 1: go through it again? No? But I'm happy that I've
Speaker 1: experienced or touched everything so far. Um. Am I going
Speaker 1: to fall or make a mistake again? Probably? Do I
Speaker 1: want to be shamed again for it? No, I prefer
Speaker 1: not to, but I'm sure I will. Um. I'd like
Speaker 1: to have some real friends around me going forward. I
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of those right now. It would
Speaker 1: be nice to find some good friends and be nice
Speaker 1: to find a nice man in my life. Would be
Speaker 1: nice to get married and have been nice to have
Speaker 1: a witness to my life and feel whole and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm forty five years old. I'd like to
Speaker 1: feel happy. You know, it's really hard to find happiness
Speaker 1: and feel like you have something to look forward to.
Speaker 1: And like everyone else, you know, i'd like to you know, uh,
Speaker 1: find some fulfillment in my life. Is not what we're
Speaker 1: all striving for. I mean, I don't know, um what
Speaker 1: what's one thing like for our listeners that they want
Speaker 1: to they you want them to take away with your story,
Speaker 1: like who you are? Like who is the real Rachel.
Speaker 1: I've like them to watch the documentary on Sunday night.
Speaker 1: If they haven't seen the first part it was last Sunday,
Speaker 1: you can go on HBO Max and watch it, and
Speaker 1: then I'd like you to watch it this Sunday, like
Speaker 1: you guys to watch it. I think I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting, but I'd like you to know that the
Speaker 1: media presents a picture of people, and they blame people,
Speaker 1: and they make a story out of things that aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily facts. And there's things that happened, and then there's
Speaker 1: a story that happens after that, and it's not necessarily true,
Speaker 1: and there are people that go with it. And everyone
Speaker 1: has to put their head down at night and put
Speaker 1: the legs out and go to sleep on a pillow.
Speaker 1: And they're people involved, and you know, have a little empathy.
Speaker 1: And I've been low, I've been down here, so now
Speaker 1: I have empathy for others, and I wish other people
Speaker 1: would have empathy for others too. UM. So you know, uh,
Speaker 1: that's all. I just wish the people would realize. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm like you, um, like everyone else, and I'm not
Speaker 1: out to steal anyone's husband. I'm you know, I like
Speaker 1: to find my own husband. I would like to be
Speaker 1: friends with you, guys. I want the best for other people. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes there are assholes out there, so I
Speaker 1: get nasty with people too, just like I'm sure if
Speaker 1: I want to text to you guys, you're like, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, but but beyond that, I just you know,
Speaker 1: I want to have you know, I have my daughter,
Speaker 1: I have you know. I'm just trying my best and
Speaker 1: we're all trying to get through the pandemic and figure
Speaker 1: out life. And um, i'd like to see you make
Speaker 1: more music. I love your country music like you know. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that's it. I just I just want to
Speaker 1: be happy. Well, we hope a little less anger and
Speaker 1: nastiness in the world, yes, please, Well, definitely, we hope
Speaker 1: the best for you, Rachel, And we appreciate your vulnerability
Speaker 1: and your willingness to come on and talk to us
Speaker 1: about such a difficult subject for you know, for all
Speaker 1: of us to talk about and for listeners to hear.
Speaker 1: But again, we appreciate you sharing your your true story,
Speaker 1: and we hope nothing but the best for you moving forward,
Speaker 1: and then you can get out of this cloud of
Speaker 1: shame and that people continue to put you in. So again,
Speaker 1: like you just said, you're a human being too, and
Speaker 1: you deserve empathy just like everyone else does. So we
Speaker 1: wish nothing by the best. And I'm sorry that I yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to say I'm sorry again that I, Um,
Speaker 1: I did what I always hate that people do. Form
Speaker 1: like I didn't get to know you before, you know,
Speaker 1: I would never say what I said in the beginning. Um,
Speaker 1: now knowing you, so I just I'm thank you for
Speaker 1: giving us the opportunity to get to know you. I'm
Speaker 1: excited to watch Tiger on HBO Max and whenever you're
Speaker 1: in Nasha, let me know. Thank you. And I just
Speaker 1: wanted to say I really hope the best for the
Speaker 1: two of you, and um, I am so honored to
Speaker 1: have been on your program, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for giving me the opportunity to have your forgiveness. So
Speaker 1: I really do want the best for you. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. I appreciate it. Have a good one, take care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're alive him Mark Danielle. Everyone thought, Hi guys, I
Speaker 1: think that went well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm proud
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah. I had so much anxiety because I
Speaker 1: felt terrible when she's like, what did you say about me?
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, I said I
Speaker 1: hated her, but I did. She was her face wasn't there,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's just to show that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's a show that well, that just goes
Speaker 1: to show like how much like when someone goes through pain,
Speaker 1: like that amount of pain, how it. It inhibits your
Speaker 1: judgment of somebody like it just it plagues your opinion
Speaker 1: on people on another human being because of the pain
Speaker 1: that you still hold in the trauma around it. So
Speaker 1: that's that anybody going through that kind of trauma would
Speaker 1: would No one can fault you. But also the people
Speaker 1: that didn't go through it hater toot. I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: people that hat they make up like, oh, she's just
Speaker 1: a white stealer, you know. So it's like and I
Speaker 1: always say, like for us, like, I know people hate me,
Speaker 1: but get to know me first, then say you hate me,
Speaker 1: you know, because you can't. Bet you can't. You'll wear
Speaker 1: someone down, you will like me. So you know I
Speaker 1: did what I always hate people due to us and so,
Speaker 1: but Mark, would you think? I thought it was great
Speaker 1: And I really love the honesty on everybody's part. I
Speaker 1: love that you told her that I said you hated her.
Speaker 1: I thought that was real because I'm sure she gets
Speaker 1: that a lot. I'm sure she appreciated the opportunity to
Speaker 1: take someone who hates her in respond to Yeah, respond
Speaker 1: to health was really good in a healthy way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought it was very raw and very real. I
Speaker 1: just have like I feel like I have an elephant
Speaker 1: sitting on my chest. It's just like or it's like
Speaker 1: like that exact that anxiety. You know. Sure, well, I'm
Speaker 1: proud of you and how you handled it, and I'm
Speaker 1: sorry for the triggers that came up, but I'm sorry
Speaker 1: for YouTube. I know it's not easy for you your
Speaker 1: side as well. But I think you know, this was
Speaker 1: good for maybe two people to hear so they can
Speaker 1: take maybe that anger, that pain that they have towards
Speaker 1: the third party or towards their significant other and if
Speaker 1: it didn't even happen to you, just in general, and
Speaker 1: like that person's or whatever right and is realized that
Speaker 1: they're still a human being and they have their own, yeah,
Speaker 1: and their own issues. And you don't know the whole story.
Speaker 1: You don't. I mean to lose someone in nine eleven,
Speaker 1: to lose her father to this, like it's not an excuse,
Speaker 1: but like Michael says, it's an explanation. Yes, it can
Speaker 1: explain a lot of your actions throughout your life. Oh,
Speaker 1: I was researching while we were talking to you you on
Speaker 1: the picture of her on the cover of the New
Speaker 1: York Post right after nine eleven holding the picture of
Speaker 1: her missing husband. I mean it's hard not Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: hard not to feel for her when you see that photo. Agreed.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I can't even. Um, I actually do want
Speaker 1: to watch Tiger because I like Tiger, even though I've
Speaker 1: said some things you know about them as well, but
Speaker 1: he's yeah, I want to watch it. I want to
Speaker 1: watch her out at Me and Rachel are busties. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm excited. Everyone watched Tiger on HBO, HBO Max, HBO Max,
Speaker 1: and uh we have yeah, we have a really amazing
Speaker 1: few episodes coming up. Uh Steven, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: a prema scene. Stephen Colletti and James Lafferty are going
Speaker 1: to be coming up soon on the next few episodes.
Speaker 1: So um, stay tuned, and thanks for getting through that
Speaker 1: podcast with those guys. We did it together. We did
Speaker 1: it together. We hope it helps. Okay, let's go make
Speaker 1: love baby bye.