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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, good to hoops tonight here at the volume.

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Speaker 2: Happy Thursday, everybody, hopeful of you guys are having an

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Speaker 2: incredible week. I'm very, very excited for today's show. You

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Speaker 2: guys all know Kevin O'Connor, friend of mine. I've been

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Speaker 2: on his show several times. I think he's been on

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Speaker 2: our show once before this, but we've never done this

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Speaker 2: specific format before. As you guys know, about once a month,

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Speaker 2: I like to take a look at our contender tiers,

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Speaker 2: just a big picture look at how the championship landscape

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Speaker 2: has shifted around the NBA. Now, to be clear, we're

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Speaker 2: not married to any of these ideas. We reserve the

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Speaker 2: right to change our mind at any point between now

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Speaker 2: and the start of the playoffs. But this is just

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Speaker 2: a snapshot of how Kevin and I feel about the

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Speaker 2: landscape of championship contenders at this point. First of all, Kevin,

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Speaker 2: how are you man? How you feeling today?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing excellent. I'm excited for the All Star break,

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Speaker 1: flying out to LA and yeah, hopefully it's a productive

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Speaker 1: and fun time and reset the NBA season and come

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Speaker 1: back and see this tank race and this contending race.

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Speaker 1: I'm both both ends of the spectrum looking I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to discussing the top end of the NBA today

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the conversation this week seems to

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Speaker 1: be about the bottom.

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Speaker 2: The shameless tanking too. Yeah, it's crazy, openly like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're doing it. What are you gonna do about it?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm very excited for the home stretch of

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Speaker 2: this season. Also in LA is fun too. I've got

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Speaker 2: actually a lot of buddies who are going I this

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Speaker 2: is like I have historically taken this as my first,

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Speaker 2: my last little break before the playoff grind. But it

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Speaker 2: being in LA this year, there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: going out. There should be a fun one, all right.

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Speaker 2: So we're gonna keep it very simple today. I'm just

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Speaker 2: gonna literally work down my list. Kevin is just going

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Speaker 2: to mention whether he agrees or disagrees, and if he disagrees,

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Speaker 2: he'll say where he has them. We have divided our

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Speaker 2: contenders into tiers. Tier one pretty self explanatory. These are

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Speaker 2: teams that should feel great about their chances to win

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Speaker 2: the title. These are teams that should be sitting in

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Speaker 2: their locker room feeling like they have a real opportunity

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Speaker 2: and there is a level of belief that anything short

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Speaker 2: of them winning the title would be somewhat of a failure.

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Speaker 2: I have four teams in this tier, starting with number one,

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Speaker 2: and I'm almost certain we agree here, but I'm curious

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Speaker 2: to see where you stand. There was a point this

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Speaker 2: year where I had Oklahoma City in their own tier,

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Speaker 2: and I think that we've seen enough over the course

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Speaker 2: of the last few months to show that they have

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Speaker 2: some flaws. And to be clear, every team in the

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Speaker 2: NBA has flaws, So I feel like it's important to

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Speaker 2: mention that we're not just nitpicking strictly Oklahoma City, but

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Speaker 2: the main flaws that have stuck out to me with them.

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Speaker 2: They're a little bit creaky with their jump shooting under duress,

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Speaker 2: so like specific types of shots, so like guarded catch

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Speaker 2: and shoot threes, like more contested catch and shoot threes.

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Speaker 2: According to Synergy, they're shooting below thirty percent on guarded

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Speaker 2: catch and shoot threes this year. We've seen some examples

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Speaker 2: in their losses where athletic teams that can rush them

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Speaker 2: a little bit at the three point line, they can

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Speaker 2: miss a little bit. They're twenty ninth in rebounding since

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Speaker 2: December thirteenth, although I would argue that that had a

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Speaker 2: lot to do with Isah Hartenstein being out. Since he's

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Speaker 2: come back in the last six games. They're eighteenth in rebounding,

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Speaker 2: which is not as bad. The main one to me

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Speaker 2: is they're a little light on ball handling and they're

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Speaker 2: so predicated on dribble penetration that when an AJ Mitchell

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Speaker 2: is out or when Jalen Williams is out, Shay obviously

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Speaker 2: the offense falls off without him. They can struggle a

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Speaker 2: little bit to break defenses down, and that makes me

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Speaker 2: just a little worried in terms of like Jalen's like

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Speaker 2: soft tissue issues that he's had, abdominal injuries can be

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Speaker 2: a little tricky for AJ Mitchell. But overall, this defense

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Speaker 2: is the most reliable unit in the NBA to me

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Speaker 2: by far. Shay is encroaching on Jokic for that best

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Speaker 2: player in the World type of title. I think he's

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Speaker 2: put some separation between him and Luca and Janis, So overall,

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Speaker 2: all those flaws that I discussed are more what just

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Speaker 2: pull them down to the same tier as everybody else.

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Speaker 2: But they were an easy number one for me still

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Speaker 2: to this point in the season. How have you felt

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Speaker 2: about the thunder, Kevin, I.

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Speaker 1: Think you're making the right call not putting them in

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Speaker 1: their own tier. I think that's the main thing. I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure, Like I can't imagine a very strong argument

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Speaker 1: for anybody else being over Oklahoma City as number one

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Speaker 1: in contender tiers. But it's just a matter of are

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Speaker 1: they on their own level, how many teams are on

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Speaker 1: the same level or not. And I think with your

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Speaker 1: making the right call there with not their own tier

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Speaker 1: because of the injuries, the fact that it's just no

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Speaker 1: team has done it for seven years. It's just the

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Speaker 1: reality of the situation here. Everybody said Denver was going

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Speaker 1: to repeat, everybody said Boston was going to repeat. It's

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Speaker 1: really hard to do, period. It's also hard to do

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with injuries. They've had guys out SGA's

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Speaker 1: out right now. Who knows if they're going to be

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Speaker 1: healthy in April, in May and have the ability to

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Speaker 1: get to June, And so I'd have them number one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no notes on every thing you said, obviously

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Speaker 1: all it's all factual. It's just a matter of durability

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Speaker 1: for this team. But even if they are healthy, the

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Speaker 1: rest of the West has gotten better, and I think

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Speaker 1: they definitely they went to a Game seven, and it's

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Speaker 1: a Denver team last year that's not anywhere as good

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Speaker 1: as it is this year. And so ultimately, I think

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Speaker 1: there's other teams that have a chance to defeat Okasee,

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Speaker 1: whether or not they're healthy, considering some of the flaws

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Speaker 1: on this team, And I think that's also why it's

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Speaker 1: a minor acquisition in some ways, because okay See's so deep,

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Speaker 1: but adding Jared McCain, he's a great shooter, and so

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Speaker 1: he's just another weapon for Mark Dagnall, one of the

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Speaker 1: best coaches in the league, to have on his bench

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Speaker 1: to turn to if it's a series in which JDub

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Speaker 1: is out or or the team is cold shooting, just

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Speaker 1: have another shooter out there, another option to add a

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Speaker 1: different layer to their rotations and the lineups that they

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Speaker 1: can play out there on the floor if they do

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Speaker 1: want to go smaller, have a more reliable shooter rather

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Speaker 1: than the defensive like Cason Wallace or Lou Dort, whoever

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Speaker 1: it may be. So I just think this team has

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Speaker 1: so much depth, so much versatility, so much flexibility that

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Speaker 1: they belong at number one for sure. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have them on their own on their own tier either.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent agree. I think the optionality part

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Speaker 2: that you're mentioning here is key. Like so, for instance,

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Speaker 2: like aj Mitchell, one of the things I've really liked

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Speaker 2: with him is he brings a level of first step

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Speaker 2: quickness that really nobody else as a ball handler other

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Speaker 2: than Shay has for Okay, see, like Jalen to me

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Speaker 2: is so much more of like a momentum driver. He's

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Speaker 2: like a semi transition. Let me get into your body

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Speaker 2: and spin off of you or euro off of you.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not so much like a straight speed attack

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Speaker 2: as it is a power attack with a guy like Jalen,

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Speaker 2: So I love that Aj Mitchell brings a very different

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Speaker 2: kind of dynamic as another a point of attack initiator

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Speaker 2: for them or the Jared McCain piece. Like you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: it's just another option, another another card that Mark dagnall

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Speaker 2: can play in any one of these situations. And I

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Speaker 2: do think that there's something to be said to about

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Speaker 2: the adversity they've faced in the middle of the season

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Speaker 2: with injuries, Like it was fun last night and throughout

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Speaker 2: the last couple weeks watching different guys step up into

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Speaker 2: more initiation because of the circumstances, Like Alex Caruso in

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Speaker 2: his shot creation this year, He's actually been sneaky pretty

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Speaker 2: good this season. He's run forty pick and rolls and

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Speaker 2: he's generated forty five points including passes. He's done some

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Speaker 2: work off the bounce chet those big late ISOs against

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Speaker 2: Austin Reeves where he got to some good looks, like

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Speaker 2: those guys are all getting reps on the ball that

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Speaker 2: I think are super valuable. But I figured we'd be

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Speaker 2: on the same page. There no surprises. Number two for me,

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Speaker 2: Denver's tricky because when you start to dig into the metrics,

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Speaker 2: it's just messy because of all the injuries and even

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Speaker 2: this recent stretch. I actually, before we get into Denver

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Speaker 2: as a team, I have a theory about why they've

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Speaker 2: been struggling since Jokic came back, and I'm curious if

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Speaker 2: you agree. So my impression is that they got used

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Speaker 2: to playing a very different style of defense. When Yonis

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Speaker 2: and Jokic were out or switching, it was more like

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Speaker 2: a contain and less dependent on rotation like backside rotation

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Speaker 2: style of defense, whereas with Jokic Andis back in the mix.

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Speaker 2: They're running a lot more high drop and it's putting

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Speaker 2: a lot more pressure on their rotations, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's just going to take them a little while to

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Speaker 2: adjust back to the way they need to defend with Jokic.

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Speaker 2: What's been your read on just their kind of recent

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Speaker 2: struggles since he came back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's spot on. It's a defensive issue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they've given up one hundred and twenty in

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Speaker 1: every game except for the last one against Cleveland when

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Speaker 1: they gave up one to nineteen. They're clearly struggling on

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Speaker 1: the defensive end of the floor. And I think ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Jokic is such a transformative player. Obviously you're

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Speaker 1: better with Jokic, that's an obvious statement. But he's also

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Speaker 1: a transformative player in terms of the way you have

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Speaker 1: to play stylistically. Both offensively he changes you and defensively

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Speaker 1: he changes you. And I think for Denver, the lack

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Speaker 1: of continuity they've had this year, i'd expect they're going

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Speaker 1: to fix themselves by the end of the season. I'm

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Speaker 1: not concer learned about them. I wouldn't knock them any

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Speaker 1: lower than two. We're on the same page. They're having

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Speaker 1: them second on our Contender Tiears. But ultimately, I think

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Speaker 1: like it's tough when guys are in and out of

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Speaker 1: the lineup when you don't when you have Aaron Goran,

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Speaker 1: then you don't have Aaron Goron, you have Yokic, and

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Speaker 1: then you find you find a new identity without him.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to bring guys in and out and back

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Speaker 1: to the team. And that they've had so many different

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Speaker 1: starting lineups, so many different rotations, it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: manage the fact that they they've been able to win

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Speaker 1: as much as they have uh so far this season

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Speaker 1: within without Jokic and within without all those guys, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty remarkable. So I'm not I'm not overreacting to this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Tough stretch, They've also faced a lot of tough teams.

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Speaker 1: Those losses are against ok See, Detroit, New York, and Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: and they beat Chicago. I mean, those are tough teams

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Speaker 1: at the tough stretch right after Jokic return. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not overreacting at all for a team that's

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Speaker 1: had as much lack of durability as they have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I think it's just gonna

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Speaker 2: be like momentum, Like, I think within a week or

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Speaker 2: two they'll kind of get back in the groove of

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Speaker 2: how they need to guard with Jokic, and I think

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Speaker 2: they'll start racking up wins. I don't, I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, obviously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist

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Speaker 2: to think that Jokic is going to help them in

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Speaker 2: the big picture when he returns. But the metrics are tricky,

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Speaker 2: Like they're twenty fourth in defense this year. They've had

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Speaker 2: constant injuries, They've been really bad on defense in clutch time.

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Speaker 2: That happened again against Cleveland yesterday. But they have a

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Speaker 2: one to twenty four defensive rating this season in clutch

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Speaker 2: situations that's been twenty ninth in the NBA. I think

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Speaker 2: that's where you've really felt the loss of Aaron Gordon.

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Speaker 2: I think Aaron Gordon has been such a pivotal piece

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Speaker 2: for them to be able to ratchet things up defensively

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Speaker 2: the way they need to. And if you're looking for

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Speaker 2: like a specific metric to focus on as a point

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Speaker 2: of optimism, they've only played five hundred and ten possessions

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Speaker 2: this year with Nicole Jokic, Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon

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Speaker 2: on the floor together. But when they have, they have

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Speaker 2: a one thirty offensive rating and a one oh six

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Speaker 2: point five defensive rating, So they've flashed that two way

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Speaker 2: ceiling that you expect to see those from those guys.

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Speaker 2: They are the best half court offense in the NBA

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Speaker 2: by mile, even with Jokic seeing a good chunk of

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Speaker 2: the season. My main point of optimism with Denver and

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Speaker 2: why I have them as the number two and the

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Speaker 2: most likely team to make an upset run against Okaysee

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Speaker 2: and hoist the trophy is I just think their core

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Speaker 2: players are better. Like I think this is the best

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Speaker 2: version of Jamal Murray that we've seen yet in the NBA.

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Speaker 2: I think this is obviously the Gordon injuries make it tricky,

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Speaker 2: but when you factor in the amount of polish he's

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Speaker 2: added in the last couple of years as a catch

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Speaker 2: and shoot player and his ability to work out of

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Speaker 2: the mid post and out of the low post, Like,

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Speaker 2: I think Gordon when healthy is better than he's been

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Speaker 2: in recent years. Maybe not the same peak defensively, but

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Speaker 2: just like.

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Speaker 1: He was an All Star Jason, I thought he was

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Speaker 1: an All Star before he got hurt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how good he was. Yeah, he was awesome.

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Speaker 2: And then obviously Jokich is Jokic, and then the role

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Speaker 2: player depth is better than ever. Like just I think

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Speaker 2: it's the best combination of Denver's core plus Denver's depth

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Speaker 2: than they've had in this era. And so that for

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Speaker 2: me is the main point of optimism. Do you have

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Speaker 2: anything to add there before we move on or it

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Speaker 2: sounds like you have him met too?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, I mean I have him at two and I

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Speaker 1: think Jamal Murray, as you said, spot on, the best

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Speaker 1: he's ever been, and Aaron Gordon prior to the injury

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Speaker 1: was the best he's ever been as well. And so Denver,

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Speaker 1: I mean, for all the talk all the over the years, well,

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Speaker 1: Jokich has never had an all star teammate, Well this

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Speaker 1: year he's got He's got one literally and Jamal Murray,

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Speaker 1: and he has another that could have been and Aaron

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Speaker 1: Gordon if he hadn't gotten hurt. So this is the deepest, strongest,

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Speaker 1: most flexible use the word optionality in regards to Oka. See, well,

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Speaker 1: Denver's got a lot of that too, and so I

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Speaker 1: put them right next to Oka. See.

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Speaker 2: So one last follow up with Denver before we move on.

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Speaker 2: So I had this one thought that arose.

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Speaker 3: For me.

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Speaker 2: Specifically after Okac just smashed the Nuggets in Denver. Now,

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Speaker 2: obviously it was one of Jokic's first games back, so

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Speaker 2: no one's going to take that as just like the

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Speaker 2: end all be all in this discussion. But one of

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Speaker 2: the things that stood out to me this year is

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Speaker 2: the teams that have caused Oklahoma City the most problems

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Speaker 2: and their losses have been teams that have been super

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Speaker 2: athletic on the perimeter and have rim protection. Do you

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Speaker 2: have any concern specific stylistically in terms of the matchup

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Speaker 2: with Denver just because of their inability to guard some

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Speaker 2: of the way Okac likes to attack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, no doubt about it. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I think Jokich in a series against okay See is

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Speaker 1: just gonna have to be a superhero. Jamal Murray and

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Speaker 1: those guys obviously they need to have durability, but no doubt,

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Speaker 1: matchup wise, it's tough for anybody to match up against

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Speaker 1: the thunder when you have that many guys that can

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Speaker 1: create off the dribble, that many guys who can defend

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Speaker 1: with versatility outside. I think for the Denver Nuggets, it

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Speaker 1: comes down to sometimes just this is just the reality

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Speaker 1: of it. Like you said with Okac earlier, Jason, their

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Speaker 1: lack of shooting. We saw what Denver did to create

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Speaker 1: issues for the Thunder and their series last year, playing

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Speaker 1: a lot of zone, turning the Thunder into a shooting team.

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Speaker 1: I forget the exact numbers off the top of my head,

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Speaker 1: but I think oka See in that series when Denver

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Speaker 1: played zon, she took I think forty five or forty

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Speaker 1: six of their shots from three. They've turned them into

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Speaker 1: a shooting team rather than a penetration team. And so

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Speaker 1: Denver did that by playing a lot of zone last year,

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Speaker 1: and so ultimately, can you change the way OKAC wants

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Speaker 1: to play? Denver did that successfully last year. Obviously I

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Speaker 1: lost the series. Can they do that again? Or maybe

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Speaker 1: is okay See going to have more counters of that

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Speaker 1: and make it a little less competitive than it was

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Speaker 1: this time last time around if they do end up

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Speaker 1: facing off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the easiest way I would describe what

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Speaker 2: you're just saying is like, like, I think Denver has

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Speaker 2: to be a little more gimmicky to get stops against Okac,

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Speaker 2: whereas there are some teams like Minnesota like San Antonio

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Speaker 2: that can do it more with their traditional schemes just

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Speaker 2: because of what they present athletically. And it, just like

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Speaker 2: you said, it just puts a lot of pressure on Jokich,

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Speaker 2: puts a lot of pressure on each guy to like

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Speaker 2: kind of defend above their paygrade, so to speak, in

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Speaker 2: some specific roles. So this next team, I think is

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Speaker 2: where we're probably going to disagree. I'm super excited to

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Speaker 2: have something on that keeps me warm but that I

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Speaker 2: terms and conditions. I don't know where you have this team,

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Speaker 2: so I'm really excited to see what you think. But

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Speaker 2: I am buying so much Cleveland Cavalier stock right now.

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Speaker 2: I have them as I think there was this kind

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Speaker 2: of like cluster at the top of the East between Detroit,

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Speaker 2: New York, Boston, Cleveland. You could maybe consider Toronto they're

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Speaker 2: kind of hanging on, but mainly those four teams. And

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Speaker 2: I was going back and forth between that group all

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Speaker 2: season long, and I kind of was leaning towards New

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Speaker 2: York just because of their combination of experience, and then

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Speaker 2: I just thought that they had kind of figured some

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Speaker 2: things out to improve specific weaknesses they had in previous years.

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Speaker 2: But to me, the combination bringing Ellison Schroeder just two

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Speaker 2: really good small guard defenders, which I think is going

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Speaker 2: to be a huge value. Add it against the conference

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Speaker 2: that has a Tyrese Maxey and a VJ. Edgecomb that

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Speaker 2: has you know, a Jalen Brunson and Aduce McBride if

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Speaker 2: you can get healthy from his injury, that has an

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Speaker 2: Emmanual Quickly and a Jamal Shed that has a Peyton

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Speaker 2: Pritchard and a Derek White. Like having those guys can

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Speaker 2: struggle against bigger, more physical wings, but they are excellent

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Speaker 2: defensive options to have against small, quick guards, and so

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Speaker 2: they've got a much better set of options for that

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Speaker 2: specific type of matchup. And I just think overall, there's

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Speaker 2: this combination that Cleveland has of shot creation between James

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Speaker 2: Harden and Donovan Mitchell, high level screen and roll threats

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Speaker 2: between Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, awesome spot up shooting.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm watching that lineup last night against Denver, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you're trying to guard Harden Mitchell ball screens

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Speaker 2: with Jared Allen with Jalen Tyson and Sam Merrill spotting

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Speaker 2: up two guys that are going to hit over fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of their unguarded catch and shoot three, So like,

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Speaker 2: you literally can't leave those dudes open, And like every

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Speaker 2: time Jalen Tyson did get open last night he'd knocked

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Speaker 2: it down. Like there was this play where James Harden

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Speaker 2: drives down the middle and he kicks it out to

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Speaker 2: Jalen Tyson at the top of the key, and as

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Speaker 2: Harden's throwing the pass, Donovan Mitchell's in the corner going

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Speaker 2: like this because he just knows it's going in. Because

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Speaker 2: that's the level of shooting they have. So when I

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Speaker 2: look at their combination again of shot creation, screen and

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Speaker 2: roll threats, off ball shooting, perimeter defenders, and rim protection,

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Speaker 2: I think they might be the most complete team in

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Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference going into this playoff. Front they're not perfect.

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Speaker 2: I am still concerned about their front court getting pushed

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Speaker 2: around in certain types of matchups, maybe like a Mitchell

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Speaker 2: Robinson or Jalen during giving them a lot of problems

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Speaker 2: as we've seen before in the past. But I just

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Speaker 2: think in amongst a group of flawed teams, they're the

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Speaker 2: team I believe in the most. How do you feel

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Speaker 2: about Cleveland at this point?

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Speaker 1: So I picked Cleveland to go to the finals before

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Speaker 1: the season, and then I moved off of them during

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Speaker 1: the season. I'm kind of back on after the deadline acquisitions.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, ke Ellis Dennis Shrudter upgrading from Darius

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Speaker 1: Garland to James Harden, and when they're going from a

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Speaker 1: guy in Garland who didn't play, couldn't trust them to play,

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Speaker 1: who couldn't stay healthy, to a player who is as

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Speaker 1: durable as he as he has ever been, still in

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Speaker 1: his mid thirties, in James Harden, who when they're both healthy,

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Speaker 1: is still a better player. Harden's a better player, he's

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Speaker 1: a better creator, a better playmaker. He's bigger, he's a

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Speaker 1: more versatile threat for this team. He helps alleviate the

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Speaker 1: load off of Mitchell, and you add Keon Allis to

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Speaker 1: that as well as a defensive presence, and Dennis Shruter

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Speaker 1: is another ballhandler, changes the complexion of that team. And

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Speaker 1: ultimately I'm kind of back on for the same reasons

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Speaker 1: as you, Jason, but I'm not sure about having them. Third,

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Speaker 1: do you have you haven't been in the same tier, they're.

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Speaker 3: The same group.

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Speaker 2: There's a Eastern Conference element to this. I think the

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Speaker 2: Eastern Conference is a slightly easier I shouldn't say slightly, a.

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Speaker 3: Substantial it's easier.

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Speaker 2: It's not an easy path, but it is a substantially

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Speaker 2: like easier pathway to get through, So I think that's easy.

431
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 3: That's okay, it's easier exactly.

432
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 2: So that to me was the like, you have to

433
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 2: have an Eastern Conference team in the top tier in

434
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 2: my opinion, just simply because the conference is more winnable,

435
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 2: If that makes sense.

436
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I'd have them three as well,

437
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: but I have them a tick below. So in the

438
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: top tier only two teams. Okay, see in Denver only. Okay,

439
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: see in Denver and Cleveland. I think i'd have three

440
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 1: as well. I'd put them ahead of the Nicks. I

441
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: think they're a more complete team. I'd put them ahead

442
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 1: of Boston for now because Boston doesn't have Tatum yet,

443
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: but they will eventually, so Boston should move up, and

444
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: I put them ahead of Detroit. I think a lot

445
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: of Pistons fans, if they're listening to this, are probably

446
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: pissed off. They're like, really, we're number one in the

447
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: East and you're putting Cleveland ahead of us. I just

448
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: think Cleveland has a more complete team. They have more

449
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: creation from different places. And James Harden rightfully so people

450
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: talk about him as like a choker that it's the

451
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: honest truth. He has had a lot of choke jobs,

452
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: including last year in Game seven against Denver when he

453
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: had a seven point stinker, but he also had a

454
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 1: brilliant Game six. He also kept them in it in

455
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: Game one with another outstanding game with clutch shots down

456
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: the stretch and in overtime. He has some great highs

457
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: in recent years, not just in his prime when the

458
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 1: Rockets were going toe to toe against the Warriors, but

459
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: in recent years, as he's been in the twilight of

460
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: his career, and so he's an upgrade over Garland. I

461
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: thought Mitchell, I'm paraphrasing what he said, summed it up

462
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: very well when he said, this is a guy who's

463
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: been in the playoffs, who's been in a finals, who's

464
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: been in these big moments. And it's true hard On

465
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: has choked, but he's also had some unbelievable moments in

466
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: the playoffs against great defenses. And so this team upgraded

467
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: at the deadline. They were not complacent until I would

468
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: have them number one in the East like you, and

469
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: third like you, but not in the same tier as

470
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: those other teams. But I get your reasoning.

471
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: So I think one of the things with Harden that

472
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: gets glossed over is, you know, as a number two,

473
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: there's a certain expectation for inconsistency. Like Jay Dubb had

474
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: a forty point game in the finals. He had lots

475
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: of bad playoff games last year, you know, like Jamal

476
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: Murray has. You know, with Jokich, Jokich, you expect a

477
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 2: certain thing every single night. Jamal Murray, it's like one

478
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 2: night he might go for twenty nine, one night he

479
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: might go for seventeen. Like when you're dealing with the

480
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 2: number two, you kind of expect a certain amount of

481
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 2: volatility from that type of player. I think the bigger

482
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 2: issue in recent years is he's been a number two

483
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: behind two number ones that weren't up to the task.

484
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: Joel Embiid obviously falls apart consistently in the postseason. I

485
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: thought last year Kawhi Leonard, outside of Game two against Denver,

486
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: looked like a second tier superstar. He didn't look like

487
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: a guy that was able to reach the level of

488
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 2: the very best players in the league. And you know,

489
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: Donovan Mitchell is necessarily one of those guys either, But

490
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: in recent years he's been one of the most dependable,

491
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: like thirty point per game, sixty percent for shooting playoff

492
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: guys in the entire NBA, and so I feel like

493
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: there's a certain level of reliability with that partnership that

494
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily there with a Kawhi who would constantly get

495
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: hurt and an MBI who would constantly get hurt. I

496
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: think this is a a I think there's a lot

497
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: of pressure on James Harden this year, but I think

498
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: this is a situation that's set up really well for him.

499
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm with you, Jason. I mean, it's alleviate the load

500
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: on him, and he doesn't need to be twenty five

501
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: points per game like he was for the Clippers.

502
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, And that's why I'm not unaware of Harden's issues.

503
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: But I've also, like you, noticed that he's had really

504
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: big playoff moments in recent years, and he has a

505
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: certain limitation as a number two, but he's better than

506
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: Darius Garland. And then also there's one other piece of

507
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: it too, like he is just so much better as

508
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 2: a one on one defender than Darius. And he made

509
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: a couple of late rotations against Denver yesterday, one where

510
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: he contested Tim Hardaway Junior on a slip that I

511
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: thought was a good on time rotation. He just Tim

512
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: Hardaway hit a tough shot, and then he first forced

513
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: a turnover on Yokich where he caught him with his

514
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: back turned and made a rotation right to his left shoulder,

515
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 2: got there in time and got set so that when

516
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 2: Jokic tried to pivot, he just ran right into Harden

517
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: and turned it over. And I was sitting there thinking, like,

518
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: with how much better he is as a one on

519
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 2: one defender than Garland. If he can just be attentive

520
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: within the scheme and be in the right spot, he

521
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 2: will be a functional defender in this group. I think

522
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: they're going to have a hard time getting stops until

523
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: Evin Mobley gets back because they're playing all these like

524
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 2: shooting focused groups. But with Mobley and Allen out there,

525
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: and with their ability to cycle in Keon Ellis and

526
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: different types of perimeter defenders, I think they're going to

527
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: be able to get a lot of stops. So Minnesota,

528
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: this is the last team I have in my top tier,

529
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: and this is probably the team that I am highest

530
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: on relative to consensus, But I just can't get off

531
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: these this particular team, And one of the main reasons

532
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: why is, first of all, they are one of the

533
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: most wild inconsistent effort and energy teams in the league.

534
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: And just talk to any Timberwolves fan about this, like

535
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: they will say, we just have entire games, long stretches

536
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: of games where we just are bsing and going through

537
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: the motions. And yet in spite of that, they have

538
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: insanely strong metrics top ten in offense, top ten in defense,

539
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: top ten and rebounding. I think they have one of

540
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: the best fastballs in the league. Like when you put

541
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: it like their best punch, when it's like Gobert protecting

542
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 2: the hell out of the rim, and all their athletes

543
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: on the perimeter, just hounding and guarding, and the combination

544
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: of big, physical shot creators they have between Aunt and

545
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: Julius and you got to include nas read in this conversation.

546
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 2: Jaden McDaniels has made substantial improvements offensively. I love the

547
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: Io de Sunmu addition too. You had a big night

548
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: last night. As I look at Minnesota, to me, their

549
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: fastball is so damn fast that they have the potential

550
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: to be literally every single team in the league. I

551
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: think they would go into any matchup and feel like

552
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 2: they have a real shot to win. They've provided real

553
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 2: problems to Oklahoma City this year just because their combination

554
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: of big shot creators and shooting. It's big cut shot

555
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: creators in shooting, but what they can do ratcheting up

556
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 2: their athleticism on defense. I'm just such a big believer

557
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: in their fastball that I have them in my top tier.

558
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: Where do you have Minnesota?

559
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put him in my top tier, but I

560
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: think we're pretty close to the same page. I mean,

561
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: as you said about with Wolf's fans right now, I

562
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: had Dane Moore great, great coverage covering the Minnesota to Wolves.

563
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: He's outstanding. I had him on my pot on Monday

564
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: and Dane and I got into the energy issues with Minnesota,

565
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: and this was ahead of that. When you're referencing with

566
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: against the Atlanta Hawks, when they assuming went off on

567
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: the bench and showed why they went out and got him,

568
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: the team looked better. Obviously Atlanta stinks, but the fact,

569
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: the fact, the fact, I mean, look, it's so nice

570
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 1: to see the team put in better effort. But with

571
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: Julius Randall and Anthony Edwards right now in the middle

572
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: of the season, the team is just not putting in

573
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: the consistent effort that you would hope for. But if

574
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: you're talking about championship contending teams, I think you're hitting

575
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: the nail on the head, Jason, when it comes to

576
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: this team's fastball on what their upside is. I would

577
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: not expect that Anthony Edwards and Julius Randall are going

578
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: to be giving such piss poor effort in the postseason

579
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: and the way they are in the middle of February.

580
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: I just I have a hard time imagining that now

581
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: with Randall. There's a chance of that because Randall is

582
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: on and off and you don't know what you're gonna

583
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: get from him sometimes. And that's one of the things

584
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: Dane talked about with me on my podcast, where you

585
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: know Julius randalld has talked about it openly, how he's moody,

586
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: how like he's talked about mental health. He's talked about

587
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: going to a therapist and how to deal with that,

588
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: and YadA, YadA. The fact is is that when he's out,

589
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: it's hard to get him back. And so Julius Randall

590
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: is such a big piece of the Wolves. He's such

591
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: a single magnificant responsible role for how they operate offensively

592
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: as the second ball handler behind Ant, as a creator

593
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: on that team, defensively his role as well that when

594
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: he's off, it's a big piece of the puzzle that's removed.

595
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: Chris Finch put a lot of responsibility on Julius Randall

596
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: in part to engage him and keep him on as

597
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: much as possible, and Julius Randall has been an All

598
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: NBA player in his career. I've been at Randall critics

599
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: since he was at Kentucky before the draft. I've never

600
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: been a big fan of Julius Randall, but there's no

601
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: denying what he's capable at at his best, and it's

602
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: just hard for me to bet on him to be

603
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: on in April and in May and then maybe in

604
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: June for three straight months. That just doesn't happen with

605
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: Julius Randall ever. It never has for over a decade now.

606
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: And I think they can still win in spite of him,

607
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: but I think they need to win a championship with

608
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Randall on, and that's a hard beat to make. I

609
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: have a lot of concerns there and it won't surprise

610
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: me if Minnesota feels like they're checking every single box

611
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: this year. They have their room protection and go bear,

612
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: they have wing versatility, they have a superstar and aunt.

613
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: They have shooting, they have defensive oriented lineups, even guys

614
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: like Jalen Clark coming off the bench. Jalen Clark's really good, Jason,

615
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: He's a really good, versatile defensive player who can do

616
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: a lot for you at the Julius Randall box, I

617
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: have a hard time feeling heavy level of level of

618
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: confidence in so I I don't know if I put

619
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: him ahead of some of these teams in the East,

620
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: like Boston with Tatum. I don't know if I put

621
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: him ahead of teams in the West like San Antonio

622
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: with the Wemby factor. But I have them in the

623
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: same range. I have them probably four or five on

624
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: my board, just because of, as you said, the fastball.

625
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: When they're at their best, it's hard not to believe

626
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: in this team. But that just has a lot to

627
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: do with Julius Randall, wh I don't have a lot

628
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: of trust.

629
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: In, even just in that Thunder series last year, it

630
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: was so like all or nothing with Julius, Like he

631
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: would just have these absolutely abysmal games and they'd go

632
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: for twenty five and another night, and yeah, I'm with

633
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: you on that. I think the last piece of optimism

634
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: I'll throw here for Wolves fans, is I think of

635
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: all the teams in the West, but other than maybe

636
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: San Antonio, your team that feels really good about your

637
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: shots against Denver and Okac. Obviously, you've beat Denver in

638
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: a series before. You have the ability to throw these

639
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: two big lineups out that can cause problems for Jokich

640
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: and forced turnovers. You've shown the ability to ratchet things

641
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: up on Jamal Murray and hold him scoreless for long

642
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: stretches in a playoff series before, so you have that

643
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: piece of optimism. Specifically the Okac matchup I've always talked

644
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: about with Oka. See you know we talked earlier the

645
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: defensive matchup. Having rim protection and athletes on the perimeter

646
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: is a huge part of guarding Okac. But the second

647
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: piece of it on the offensive end is like we

648
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: even saw it last night with Lebron, Like there was

649
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: a stretch where Lebron looked unguardable for Okac, simply because

650
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: if you have big shot creators that can pass, then

651
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: you can pass through their defense and get these high

652
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: quality three point shots. Now, the Lakers if nobody can shoot,

653
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: but Minnesota has tons of dudes who can shoot and

654
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: so they have that combination. Like I remember in the

655
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: win that they got, not the one where Okaysee was

656
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: badly injured, but the one when they had all their

657
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: guys in that game, I remember down the stretch it

658
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: wasn't just ant in his ability to get to his

659
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: spots against Cason Wallace. It was nas Reed throwing a

660
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: quick post up of Jadub and hitting a little lefty

661
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: hook off the glass. It was Julius Randall drawing multiple

662
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: defenders on a drive into the lane that created an

663
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: offensive rebound opportunity for nas Reed. Like, they just have

664
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: this big, skilled set of offensive players that I think

665
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: can cause Okac problems. So if you're Minnesota, you like

666
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: your ability to match up against the best teams in

667
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: the league. And that's a big part of why I

668
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: have them so high number five. I've san Antonio. There's

669
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: lots of really strong metrics for them too. Their crunch

670
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: time metrics have been insane their offense. For all to

671
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: talk about their offense, and I'm going to talk about

672
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: their offense quite a bit, they're elite on offense. In

673
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 2: crunch time, they grab forty percent of their own misses

674
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: and crunch time, so they're an excellent offensive rebounding team.

675
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: We've seen Wemby just like Superman himself, to huge offensive

676
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: rebounds late in games. They're really strong on the margins.

677
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: They're top five and opponent points off of turnovers. They're

678
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: top five in opponent second chance points, their top five

679
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: in opponent fast break points. They protect the paint well.

680
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: I actually think they're much more of like a smash

681
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: mouth team than anything else. They physically overwhelm teams. They

682
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: can guard on the perimeter. They rebound, they attack the

683
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: basket recklessly, they get back in transition, they take care

684
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: of the basketball. They're just like this super physical athletic

685
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 2: team at their core. My main reason for keeping them

686
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: off the top tier is one single idea. Against elite

687
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: defenses that have weeks to game plan, I think we're

688
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: going to see a series of defensive adjustments, one either

689
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: going under against their guards, specifically referencing like Steph Castle,

690
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: Dylan Harper riding with Keldon Johnson in this a little bit,

691
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: but going under against them and or putting bigs on

692
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: them and basically daring them to shoot. And then we've

693
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: seen this happen before. I think Julius Randall had a

694
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: really good example in one of their wins against against

695
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: San Antonio, where you just get a big forward and

696
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: just get physical up underneath Wenby and push him up

697
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: off of his spots, and it kind of can turn

698
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: him into a really difficult jump shooter in those situations. Now,

699
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: the Spurs have a counter for this, and that's the

700
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: Deer and Fox pick and roll, and it's probably their

701
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: safest and most playoff resilient play type that they can

702
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: go to. It's just Fox Wemby pick and roll. But

703
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Fox is just not as good as some of the

704
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: other offensive players who go against in the West, and

705
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: so I'm a little worried about their offense kind of

706
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: running into these cold stretches that stem from young, flawed

707
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: players that still need some time to develop. But I

708
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: can't write them off just because of that idea, because

709
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: there's also the chance that Wenby just goes and is

710
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: a wrecking ball and just kills every buddy and and

711
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm feeling like an absolute idiot,

712
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: But I just think I have enough question marks about

713
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: their offense that it kept them off the top tier

714
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: for me, and I have them at number five.

715
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: I would I'd also have a fifth, but I would

716
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: have them a tier below Cleveland and Minnesota. So I'm

717
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: on my third tier. Now I have them on my

718
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: third tier. I hate the fact that we have the

719
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: same order, but like the list is spot on, it's

720
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: just the hot of truth. I mean, I think I

721
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: think with Minnesota I have them ahead of San Antonio

722
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: because of the experience factor too. That that's one thing

723
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: we didn't mention. Yeah, and that's part of it. The

724
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: experienced factor is something to consider and San Antonio just

725
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: hasn't been on that stage. And the point you made,

726
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: Jason about the shooting aspect with the Spurs, it was

727
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: my concern with them taking Dylan Harper in the drafts.

728
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: It still is my concern now that do they have

729
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: too many con Yes, I would have traded down a

730
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: spot and taken Con or tried to trade down a spot.

731
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I would have taken Con straight

732
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: up at number two over Dylan Harper. Can you imagine

733
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 1: this team with conk Nipple, oh, instead of Dylan Harper

734
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: right now? I mean, Dylan Harper might Dylan Harper might

735
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: end up the better player long term. I'm not disputing that.

736
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that, but Conk Nipple is by far

737
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: the better player today, and I just can't imagine how

738
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: the complexion of this Spurs team would look if they

739
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: had him shooting and spacing and secondary handling and instead

740
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: of Dylan Harper right now. But I think that the

741
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: point you're hitting on is why I do have some

742
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: concerns offensively. They're crushing offensively right now and clutch time,

743
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: as you said, but come playoff time, when teams are

744
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: making adjustments and they're game planning and making these little

745
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: micro adjustments in every single game at halftime, between third

746
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: quarters and all that that they don't do. Now, what

747
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: happens when Dearon Fox is having a cold shooting stretch.

748
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: What happens when Dylan Harper isn't effectively spacing from outside

749
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 1: and Stefan Castle doesn't having forty point triple doubles these

750
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 1: guys like, these guys are subpar shooters, all three of them, Fox,

751
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Castle and Harper, and I just I have concerns about

752
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: what it's gonna look like against elite defenses in a

753
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: seven game series. And I think that's one of the

754
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: reasons why the point you hit on about their offensive

755
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: rebounding habits changing. In clutch time, they rebound thirty percent

756
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: of their missus for the full duration of a game.

757
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: Middle of the pack, they're up over forty percent in

758
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: clutch time. They change the way they play late in games.

759
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: They might have to change the way they play for

760
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: an entire playoff series when it comes to that, those

761
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: real serious defensive adjustments are being made. And I think

762
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: san Antonio belongs at five. I have too much respect

763
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: for Wenby and what those guys are crepable of doing.

764
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: They do have a lot of ball handlers, a lot

765
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: of creation. They belong in the contender category. But there's

766
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: a chance we also look back at having them fifth

767
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 1: and we're like, that is too soon. Soon. They should

768
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: have been behind some of these other teams. And that's

769
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: why I put him on a tier below those other

770
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: other groups rather than rather than next to Minnesota, Mexic Cleveland,

771
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: even though we have the same order, we have different

772
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: groupings there.

773
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: Very simply, you just don't see a team that has

774
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: no playoff experiences run in and then get everybody. That's

775
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 2: just that's just how it goes. Like there's the pain

776
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: and suffering of loss. Like I think Shae is a

777
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: better player than Luca. Now, I thought Luca outplayed him

778
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: in that second round series. He kept burning him for

779
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 2: helping off of PJ. Washington in the corner. I thought,

780
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: like I thought that was a valuable piece of experience

781
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: for Shae, Like Anthony Edwards got embarrassed by Luca and

782
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: then got embarrassed by Shay and back to back Western

783
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: Conference Finals series where he was badly outplayed by both

784
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: of them, Like that is part of the motivation that

785
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: led to Ant becoming this sixty two percent true shooting,

786
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: thirty point per game absolute monster at age twenty four. Right,

787
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 2: Like I think Wenby, just like every other young star,

788
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: has to go through some of these battles and get

789
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: humiliated a little bit and reminded that there's levels to this,

790
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: that there's another another additional layer that he needs to

791
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: add to his game or to his workout regimen or

792
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. And I just think, and because

793
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: we're gonna get into this with Detroit here in a second,

794
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: it's not a lack of respect or belief in these teams.

795
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: Like I think you and I both think san Antonio

796
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: is going to be a perennial top tier contender, Like

797
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: it's going to be there's gonna be probably a five

798
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: year stretch consecutively where we both have them in our

799
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: top tiers. Like that's how much we believe in the

800
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,959
Speaker 2: Victor Webbin Yama, Steph Castle, Dearn Fox Corps. It's more

801
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: just the timeline and that there's a process here that

802
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: most of these teams need to follow, and similarly with Detroit.

803
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,759
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835
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 2: I'd argue they've been the most impressive team in the

836
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: league this year, Like it goes beyond even just the record.

837
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 2: Every other team in the league has at least seven

838
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: losses against teams in the top ten. In point differential,

839
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: the Pistons are ten and four. That's far and away

840
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: the best win They have a seventy one percent win

841
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: percentage against teams in the top ten and win in

842
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: point differential. Houston is in second place at fifty eight percent,

843
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: so this is a thirteen percent gap there. They have

844
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: insane margin domination, like they are a smash mouth basketball team.

845
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 2: They outscore teams in points off of turnovers by five

846
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: point six points per game, by two points per game

847
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: and second chance points, by five points per game, in

848
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: fast break points, and by fourteen points per game in

849
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: points in the paint. They outscored Charlotte last night sixty

850
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 2: to twenty six in the pay this This is a mauling,

851
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: physical team that I'm a huge believer in in the

852
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: big picture, but the twentieth and half court offense, if

853
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: they run into any team that can keep keep things

854
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: competitive on the margins, they're in some serious trouble. And

855
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: so again, big believer in Detroit, but I personally would

856
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: be really surprised if they ended up hoisting the trophy

857
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 2: this year.

858
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: Twenty eighth and three point attempts for a game, twenty

859
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: second and three point percentage they add Kevin Hurd or

860
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: Kevin Hurd is not changing anything. It's just the reality

861
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: it might not even play in the playoffs. I'd have

862
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: Boston here, I head of Detroit, and I know Pistons

863
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: fans are probably disrespected by that, and rightfully sorry, you're

864
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: at the top of the East. I just think with

865
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,439
Speaker 1: Boston they are that team Jason that you said can

866
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: that can match them on the margins and then also

867
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: crush them in the half court when Jason Tatum returns.

868
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: Boston has been very competitive in their games against Detroit

869
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: this year despite not having Jason Tatum. I think when

870
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum returns, if he's eighty percent of his former

871
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: self or eighty five percent or seventy seven percent or

872
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: ninety percent, whatever it is, that puts them as perhaps

873
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: the best team in the East behind Cleveland. But I

874
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: definitely put them ahead of Detroit and New York as

875
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: that team right now. That would be sixth on the rankings,

876
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: and that could move up for sure quite easily.

877
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: So let's actually move to Boston for just a second.

878
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: I have all these teams in the same tier, so

879
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: we'll continue to work through the numbers. But I'm curious

880
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: since you mentioned Boston. I've Boston in the same tier,

881
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: but I have them at nine, So that doesn't mean

882
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: that there's some massive separation. It just means that in

883
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: this tier I have them lower. My main thing, because

884
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: I think I think what Boston has done this year

885
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: has been incredibly impressive on so many different levels. I

886
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: think it's a testament to Joe Missoula and the system

887
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: that he's implemented in the level of buy in that

888
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: he's gotten over the last several years that has led

889
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: to through continuity and through that buy in, like them

890
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: having a one to twelve on the offensive rating this

891
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: year without Jason Tatum, without chrisops porzingis, without Al Horford,

892
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: without Drew Holliday, I think is a remarkable accomplishment.

893
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: Crazy, it's a remarkable accomplishment. It's just the level of

894
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 3: top ten defense.

895
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: Jason, Yeah, top ten defensive rating two without those guys,

896
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: it's one of the best defenders in the league.

897
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, what do I do against.

898
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: Katie with Ron Harper Junior and Baylor Shireman starting that game?

899
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?

900
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: They have been deep in their rotation most of the

901
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: season too. It has been it has been so impressive.

902
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: I just think organizationally, this year has been just like

903
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: a big giant advertisement for why the Boston Celtics can

904
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: sustain success the way that they have over the last

905
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 2: several decades. And I think, you know, the main reason

906
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: why I have them in the second tier, why I

907
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 2: have them a little lower, is just the question marks.

908
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: Like obviously, if Jason Tatum comes back and he's able

909
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: to be most of what Jason Tatum is, he helps

910
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: in so many different ways, including the there's a defensive

911
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 2: rebounding piece that I think he helps with a lot.

912
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: There's a defending with their centers piece. So for instance,

913
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: like I really like the Vusovich edition is one that

914
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 2: I talked about actually before the deadline, mainly centering around

915
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: the idea of affordability. He just was inexpensive and he

916
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 2: gives him a very different look than Kada. I love

917
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 2: that Missoula has been starting Kida and bringing Vusovich off

918
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: the bench. But at the same time, like, you know,

919
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: you have a certain type of matchup. Oh, you know,

920
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: in this particular game against Miami, they're doing a ton

921
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: of switching. Let's have Vusovich close the game. He's a

922
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: better look for us because he can do damage on

923
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 2: the offensive glass, and he can post up a little

924
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: bit and all that kind of stuff. Right, Like, I

925
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: love that dynamic, but Vucha struggled defensively since coming to Boston.

926
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: You know who's like the antidote for that, Jason Tatum

927
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: because he can guard opposing centers and switch ball screens

928
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: and you can tuck Vusvitch away on a non shoot

929
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: or somewhere elsewhere on the floor. And so like, I'm

930
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: a big believer that this could all come together into

931
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: a bona fide championship run. I just think between the

932
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: Tatum like just who knows what's going to happen with

933
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 2: his injury and some of the implementation of Usevich and

934
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: some of the question marks around in that front court,

935
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: it just was a little to question mark heavy for

936
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 2: me to have them any higher. But I do believe

937
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: in the upside.

938
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: I think that's totally fair. I mean, in a way

939
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: talking about Boston reminds me of talking about Minnesota for

940
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: different reasons. When you talking about the ifs. I think

941
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: their fastball is so fast, it is so significant, so

942
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: hard to stop. It's the same reason why there's a

943
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: lot of confidence in Boston being a repeat team, because

944
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: of what they're capable of doing when they're on. And

945
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: we'll see if they end up getting Tatum back, and

946
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: if Tatum comes back, what he looks like, and I

947
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: believe he will come back. I don't see any reason

948
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: to believe he won't. All signs are pointing towards him returning,

949
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: and Boston's roster, even without him, has looked awesome this year.

950
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: Jalen Brown, the leap he's taken, the amount of flexibility

951
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: they have, not just sometimes it's Jordan Wall, sometimes it's

952
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: Baylor Shyerman, the guys off their bench, Joe Mazzuola's got

953
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: a lot of options, and they believe in him, believe

954
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: in that style of play. And the fact that that

955
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: game against Houston will stick in my mind, the fact

956
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: they went in there without all about two of their

957
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: starters Cada and White, and beat them up. I just

958
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: think there's a testament to the character of that team

959
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: and the level of buying together that guys who don't

960
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: play went out there and were ready, and the guys

961
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: who that are the typical starters, the typical rotation guys

962
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: play with that same attitude and intensity. Boston's a real

963
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: threatut they gets hit him back.

964
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

965
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: I think that just the juxtaposition of them in Indiana

966
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: and now Indiana's had more injury issues, but you know,

967
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: they've still had, you know, some of their core guys

968
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: around it. They've been borderline uncompetitive for for the majority

969
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 2: of the season. I just think I just think seeing

970
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: the difference between those two franchises, Like if you're a

971
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 2: Celtics fan, I was talking to Celtics fans over the summer, like, hey,

972
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: like the best you could hope for this year is

973
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: like Jalen Brown looks good and you find two rotation

974
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: players out of like discounted margin type type hits, you know,

975
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: and you got you got that, and you got all

976
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: the wins.

977
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: I think that's the crazy thing.

978
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: Like you find Jordan Walsh and he looks like a

979
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: legitimate rotation piece. Jalen Brown does take the leap to

980
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: becoming a bona fide all NBA level talent and you

981
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: are like firmly in the mix for championship contention. Like,

982
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: just what an unbelievable season for Celtics fans. So you

983
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 2: have Boston at six, I have Detroit at six. Moving

984
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: on to number seven, I have Houston. And you know,

985
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 2: I had Houston as a top tier contender most of

986
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: the season until this point, and I ended up dropping

987
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: them down for.

988
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 3: A variety of reasons.

989
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 2: They have really strong metrics like their top six in

990
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: offense top six and defense top six and rebounding. I

991
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: think that that is a strong indicator second best win

992
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: percentage in the league versus teams that are in the

993
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: top ten point differential. We talked about that earlier. With Detroit,

994
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: the clutch stuff is what scares everybody off. They're thirteen

995
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: and fourteen in clutch games, their bottom ten in clutch

996
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: offense and defense. The main reason I dropped them down

997
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: from that tier is a combination of that, which I

998
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: think is more of like an Amend Thompson's spacing kind

999
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: of thing and a shannguon defense thing, which we'll talk

1000
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: about in the second. But I think the loss of

1001
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: Steven Adams removes a real dimension from the team like

1002
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: they in fourteen hundred and forty six possessions this year

1003
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: with Steven Adams on the floor, they were outscoring teams

1004
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: by thirteen points per one hundred possessions. Is it the

1005
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: look they would have closed every game with?

1006
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: No?

1007
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: Would there have been serieses and teams that could have

1008
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: played Steve Adams off the floor? Yes, but it was

1009
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 2: a look, a dimension to the team that no longer

1010
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: exists now. And then when I look at like, you know,

1011
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: the Amen Thompsons facing issue, which I want to get

1012
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 2: into it a little bit here in a minute, the

1013
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: Reed Shepherd thing, where like if he's not hitting threes,

1014
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: the defensive liability stuff rises to the surface. And then

1015
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: just in general they're super reliant on KD offensively. It

1016
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 2: just kind of amounted to just one too many question

1017
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: marks for me to keep them in the top tiers.

1018
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 2: So before we talk about the late game offense and

1019
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, just big picture, how you're feeling

1020
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: about Houston at this point.

1021
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: I have Huston lower than you do. I think I

1022
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: have them last. I have them tent tenth on my

1023
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: on my list. Personally, I just have a little belief

1024
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: in this team. I had a good amount of belief

1025
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: during the year. I thought, you know, obviously the questions

1026
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: Fred van Vliet gets hurt. I'm not a Fred van

1027
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: Vleek guy, to be fair, I'm a Red Shepherd guy.

1028
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,439
Speaker 1: I'm an Amen Thompson guy. But those players are still young,

1029
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: They're still flawed. Amen Thompson's inability to shoot the ball

1030
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: as an issue for this team, and it will be

1031
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: an issue in the playoffs. Read Shepherd. I don't think

1032
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: Udoka trusts Read Shepherd. I don't think he's empowered him

1033
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: in the ways that I would have hoped for with

1034
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: his shooting ability and his creation ability as a connective piece.

1035
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: I also questioned the coaching here with Udoka. I don't

1036
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that he called out Sheng

1037
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: Gouin's defense publicly, even though it's true. I just I

1038
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: just don't like the way this half court offense is structured.

1039
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: And that's in part his fault. It's in part the

1040
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: roster construction made by the front office. And I also

1041
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: just don't like the development of these young guys. Yeah,

1042
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: you don't have Fred van Vliet, Okay, you have Reed Shepherd,

1043
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: who was taken with the third pick in the draft,

1044
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: invest in that guy early on in the season, don't

1045
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: play him for ten minutes behind Aaron Holiday on some nights.

1046
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make any sense to me. And ultimately

1047
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: the shen Gun aspect, even though Udoka I don't love

1048
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: him calling it out publicly saying, you know, he was

1049
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: asked about Shennggun's defense being attacked and he's like, it's

1050
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: been the case since I've been here. WHOA, Okay, the

1051
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: fact is he's not wrong. Shen Gun is you know, statistically,

1052
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: I believe the second worst isolation defender in the NBA

1053
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: this season. Teams are going to attack him relentlessly come

1054
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: postseason time. I believe that's going to be a problem

1055
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: for them. And as you said, Jason, not having Steven Adams,

1056
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: how important was that to them last year when that's

1057
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: all they had Even this year, that two big lineup,

1058
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: the ability just to pumme over the offensive boards and

1059
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: the size that presented it on defense. Now you don't

1060
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: have that, that's not an option for you more. And

1061
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: I just have a little belief in this team. I

1062
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: still think they're a contender, but I'd put them at

1063
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: the bottom of my list of potential contenders right now.

1064
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, the stuff with Shanegoon on defense I

1065
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: think is fascinating because I don't he's not a stiff

1066
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: like he's He's a good athlete for the center position.

1067
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: He should be better than he is, And so part

1068
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: of me wonders if this is one of those like

1069
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: bullying Works situations where Katie and Udoka are like, let

1070
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: me just see if we can humiliate this guy into

1071
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 2: getting him to play some defense. And I think ultimately,

1072
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: if there's a version of Houston that wins the title,

1073
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: I think it involves Shangun being a good defender, and

1074
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 2: so that's a bridge that he's going to have to

1075
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 2: cross at some point in his career. The late game offense.

1076
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: You know, I remember thinking about this a lot, this

1077
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: specific spacing concept in the series a few years ago

1078
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 2: when the Knicks upset the Calves, and the specific dynamic

1079
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 2: that killed the Calves in that series was Jared Allen

1080
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 2: and the Dunker's with Evan Mobley slipping out of screens

1081
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 2: with Mitchell in Garland and creating these two on ones

1082
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: with Mobley and Allen and with with Mitchell Robinson as

1083
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: the as the drop coverage bigger I think he was

1084
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,439
Speaker 2: more functioning as a low man in these sequences because

1085
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: kat was going.

1086
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: Up to the level.

1087
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 2: And essentially actually that was pre Cat, but Mitchell was

1088
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: just on the back line and it would just create

1089
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: these two on ones with Evan and Jared and Mitchell

1090
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: and Evan, just like Mitchell was so good at like

1091
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: splitting the difference between the two and like making it

1092
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: so that like what we'll see these sequences with with

1093
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: Shangoon and a Men Thompson during the regular season, where

1094
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: it's just beautiful, like Katie draws two hits Shangoon in

1095
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: the pocket, a man's there in the dunker spot lob dunk,

1096
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 2: and it just looks beautiful, and like in theory, it

1097
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 2: makes sense as a spacing concept until you run into

1098
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 2: Victor Weben Yama, or you run into a chet holmgrin,

1099
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: or you run into some kind of center that can

1100
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: effectively like stunt at the role while also defending the lob,

1101
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, it's like, well, now

1102
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: we can't have a Men Thompson in the dunker spot.

1103
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: That doesn't work anymore. And now like in that Spurs game,

1104
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: now you have Thompson whirling around with these dhos with

1105
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: KD up top, and it's just going nowhere fast. And

1106
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: that really is the thing where I just think this

1107
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: there's a level of growth that we're going to need

1108
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 2: to see out of a Men Thompson offensively for this

1109
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 2: team to win the championship that I think is more

1110
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: of a long shot in the context of this postseason.

1111
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: And so I think they will defend better than they

1112
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 2: have in crunch time, like some of their crunch time

1113
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: defensive issues are just they got to play better defense.

1114
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: But this offense issue down the stretch, I do think

1115
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,439
Speaker 2: it's going to turn into a lot of Shangoon left

1116
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: shoulder hooks over to multiple defenders and Kevin Durant tough

1117
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: contested mid range jump shots. And that's just a lot

1118
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 2: of pressure to put on those two guys to make shots,

1119
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: and they already have turnover issues in those situations that

1120
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 2: don't make it any easier. I don't necessarily think the

1121
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: late game offense issues are going away.

1122
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going away either. And it's also

1123
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: just another Kevin Durant team that seems to have a

1124
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 1: missing it factor, and that's an element that is hard

1125
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: to measure. We can't look at stats about that. But

1126
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: there's something missing character wise about this Houston team. And

1127
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: it won't surprise me if they're one of these teams

1128
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: that flame out early and when you talk about the

1129
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 1: Yanna Sweepstakes this summer, if that does drag into the summer,

1130
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: if they're the team that says, you know what, screw it, we.

1131
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: Do have to make a big move, wouldn't be surprised.

1132
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: All Right, We're gonna go kind of rapid fire. We

1133
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 2: have two more teams that we have to hit. At

1134
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: number eight, I have the Knicks, and I actually like

1135
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: this is the most I've liked a Knick's team in

1136
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 2: this era. I think their wings are all better versions

1137
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 2: of themselves. Like Josh Hart's shooting the ball and doing

1138
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: more offensively than he's ever done. McHale's way better defensively

1139
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 2: than he was last year, and he shot the three

1140
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: a lot better. Og is just an incredible player. He's

1141
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: like one of the few really highly paid role players

1142
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 2: that's like worth every penny, like ogn Andope's been really

1143
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 2: good for them.

1144
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 3: I think they're deeper.

1145
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 2: I think they play a better brand of basketball on

1146
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: both ends of the floor than they have in recent years.

1147
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 2: They generate so many more catch and shoot looks because

1148
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 2: of the way that they attack early in possessions and

1149
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: how much more they trust the pass. Last year, they

1150
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 2: straight up couldn't beat good teams. This year they've beat

1151
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: more good teams. Another really impressive win against Boston the

1152
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: other day, although I thought that was one of Boston's

1153
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: just worst all around performances of the season. But I

1154
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 2: have to keep them in the second tier just because

1155
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 2: of their extensive track record of playoff issues, just their

1156
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 2: defensive entry points between Cat and Brunson. Kat's also extremely

1157
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: mistake prone. I have burned in my brain him crashing

1158
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 2: off the top of the key against the Pacers and

1159
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: giving up runouts to Siakam because he just doesn't understand

1160
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: transition defense. And also the league is just better around

1161
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: them than it used to be. So even though I

1162
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 2: think this is a better version of the Knicks than

1163
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 2: in recent years, I just don't view them as as

1164
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: substantial as a threat as you would think for how

1165
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: much better they are than last year.

1166
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's spot on, and I have them eighth,

1167
00:55:52,360 --> 00:56:00,720
Speaker 1: in a tier below San Antonio, Boston Detroit four tiers. Belove,

1168
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: I have them eight as well.

1169
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so I have Boston at nine, which we already

1170
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 2: talked about. Yep, last team that will hit today. This

1171
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: is a break for me. So I go down to

1172
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: the third tier, and I think there's a couple other

1173
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 2: teams that you could put in this tier, Like I

1174
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 2: think you could include Tea.

1175
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have them, sire one, say Tier one Lakers.

1176
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: So I have a funny stat for you have Lakers

1177
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 2: at ten. These are the teams who have fared better

1178
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: this season by win percentage against teams in the top

1179
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 2: ten in point differential. The Clippers, who started six and

1180
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 2: twenty one, Portland, Utah, Atlanta, and Charlotte. All five of

1181
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: those teams where below five hundred have been better this

1182
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 2: season against teams in the top ten and point differential.

1183
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 2: Even during this recent run where the Lakers are playing

1184
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 2: some of their best basketball this season, they're eight and

1185
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 2: four in their last twelve games before the OKC game,

1186
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: and then eight and three stretches their first ten plus

1187
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 2: game stretch of the season where they were top ten

1188
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: in both offense and defense. So like they're finally starting

1189
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 2: to play some good basketball. In that eight and four stretch,

1190
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 2: they're zero to three against teams that are in the

1191
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 2: top ten and point differential. I got crushed by the Knicks.

1192
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 2: I got crushed by the Calves, and they got crushed

1193
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: but did not crushed by the Thunder. But they end

1194
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 2: up losing that game to the Thunder. So the counterpoint

1195
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 2: to this that any like optimistic Lakers fan would pitch

1196
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: is like, well, our Big three has just never been healthy,

1197
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 2: and when they're healthy, maybe they can reach a level

1198
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: of offense that is just able to compete more with

1199
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: some of these better teams in the league. But for me,

1200
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: just the lack of athleticism, the lack of shooting.

1201
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: It just would.

1202
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 2: Require an all time great three dudes playing at like

1203
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: a second team All NBA or better level between Austin,

1204
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 2: Lebron and Luca for them to go win the title.

1205
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: And I just think that's that's way too much to ask.

1206
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: So I have them in that third tier.

1207
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair. I have a ninth ahead

1208
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: of this, the the Rockets. I'd throw the Sixers in

1209
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: there as well. Okay, why not, what if it stays

1210
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: healthy As an E team, I want to believe. I

1211
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: want to believe, So my final tier would be mixed

1212
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: Lakers Sixers Rockets. So I have eleven teams, four tiers.

1213
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: You have ten teams three tiers. But I think you're

1214
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: spawn on about the Lakers. They just don't have enough athleticism,

1215
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: don't have enough defense. I think Austin Reeves is for real.

1216
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: I think nationally a lot of people don't quite believe

1217
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: that he's as great as he is an all he

1218
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: was an All NBA player prior to the injury. Just

1219
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: the reality of how good he is, and he's been

1220
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: that good since his return, of course coming off the

1221
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: bench with a fewer minutes. But the dudes for real.

1222
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: But it's just too much to expect this all time

1223
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: level one forty offensive rating, seven game series'. I don't

1224
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: see it happening for three straight months.

1225
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 3: Me neither, Kevin. This was incredible.

1226
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed this pod and a sincerely appreciate you

1227
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: giving us your time. Why don't you tell everybody where

1228
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 2: they can find your work?

1229
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Jason, The Kevin O'Connor Show. You

1230
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: can find that anywhere you get your podcast, or check

1231
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: out the KOC Show over at Yahoo NBA. That's our

1232
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: new YouTube channel.

1233
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, dude, it was good to see you all right, everybody.

1234
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: That's all we have for today. As always, we sincerely

1235
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys for supporting us in supporting the show.

1236
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: I hope everyone has an incredible weekend. We'll be back

1237
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: Monday with our rankings.

1238
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: I'll see you guys then