WEBVTT - Talkin' Cowboys: What’s Next On Defense? 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.160 The following He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:21.120 and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This he's Talking Cowboys, 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.959 Screaming live from the Dallas Cowboys World Hours at the 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:34.519 Star in Frisco. That's got pictures and now your hosts 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:43.840 Isaiah Stanback, heckm Harrison, Rob Phillips, and Kyle Yeoman's. It's 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:48.599 an offseason edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Geico from 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.519 the s WBC Mortgage Studios. Virtually as always, or at 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.560 least what it's been like for the past ten months, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.680 but we're continuing to break down this Dallas Cowboys team 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.920 and a lot of breaking news that hit the fans 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.200 since well, I guess Friday, but we are technically the 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.080 first show that gets to talk about it. But we're 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.759 gonna break down an entire coaching search, a coach firing, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.080 and really an overahaul in the span of an hour. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.960 So buckle up, ladies and gentlemen and come along for 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:17.759 the ride. We're excited to bring you along with as 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.399 Kyle Yeoman's alongside heck My Harrison, Rob Phillips and Isaiah 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.640 stand back and gentlemen, let's jump right into this. Mike Nolan. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.560 As of Friday afternoon, it was officially reported and released 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.720 that he was let go of his duties as defensive 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.759 coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys. Jim tom Sula was also 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.200 on that list, and really twelve months almost to the 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.880 day that we were hiring Mike McCarthy last year, you 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.720 turn around and you fire a defensive coordinator. Initially, Mike 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.880 Nolan wasn't in Dallas long enough to the fact that 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.680 if you go in you google Cowboys defensive coordinator, the 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.120 first pictures that pop up are Rod Marinelli and Chris 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.760 Richard at the first pictures that pop up on Google 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.280 if you go in google Cowboys defensive coordinator. But Rob 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.240 kind of tell us how this went down and what 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.280 your thoughts of the move are for Cowboys Nation. It 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.240 was a move that wasn't necessarily surprising. No, it wasn't. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.080 Kyle and I know we've had our discussion on the 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.160 show the last you know, a couple of weeks, like 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.320 what were the chances that he could be back if 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.000 they continued on an upward trend defensively, and obviously the 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.120 takeaways went up the last four games of the season. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.680 I believe they had twelve takeaways, which more than double 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.000 what they had or close to it early in the season, 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:41.560 but they just didn't see enough improvement overall. And you know, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.080 I kind of got the sense that by mid December, 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.519 after that Ravens game, I think it was pretty clear 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.120 that they were at least looking hard at making a change. 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.160 And while there was improvement down the stretch, the Giants 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.560 game in the finale last week really was kind of 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.200 another step backward in terms of yards given up, points 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:04.160 given up, big plays given up. And I just quickly 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.760 looked at the stats during that four game stretch, guys 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.080 where we talked about where they made some progress, they 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.360 felt like they were more comfortable in the scheme. All 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.840 of that, they still gave up an average of three 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.239 hundred and ninety five yards in those four games where 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.600 they won three out of four, and that's and that's 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.760 that's actually more. That's actually more per game than they'd 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.640 average for the season. That was three eighty six. Now, 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.960 the run defense, which is the big, one of the 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.200 biggest reasons why they made the change, and obviously Jim 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.040 tom Seula d line coach, not back either. They gave 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:34.840 up one hundred and thirty one rushing yards in those 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.160 last four games one hundred and fifty eight average for 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.600 the season. So I don't think they saw enough improvement 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:47.240 down the stretch guys to really make a difference. Heck, Rob, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.600 you're so nice man. I'll tell you, man, the way 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.720 the two word it is you put it at love. 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.400 I love that. But you know, all of those things, 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.840 and you talk about the Ravens game actually being the 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.520 indictment on him as a coach, and this whole defense 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.200 from just start to finish, you look at them if 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.320 you're gonna take the last four games. Okay, that's just 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.720 a sample size, but you go back to games like 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.880 the Cleveland Browns game where we were just not able 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:19.120 to stop anybody, and I think this defense and whatever 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.440 scheme they were playing too gap Reid for the D lineman, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.839 the secondary. No one understood this defense at all. And 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.919 that's where you had those anonymous sources that leaked reports 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.560 to James Slater saying that this defensive coordinated staff, where 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.600 the staff didn't know what they were talking, what they 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.599 were doing, and it just started early. It started early, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.520 and you you know, and for guys like Jalen Smith, 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.640 who I could say it's probably one of his worst 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.919 years as far as you know, statistics say that obviously 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.120 he made a lot of tackles, but just the eyeball 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.160 test was saying that man fifty four did not know 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.360 where he was. And you saw a lot of that 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.479 from guy's just trying to freestyle this doing their own 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.080 way because they were lost the whole season. Then look, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.360 if you tried, you know, those those turnovers may have 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.640 been where people started to talk about, Okay, is he 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.960 is there a chance that he's saving his job? But nah, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.479 it just it just wasn't enough. We could protect the 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.560 boundary and we darn't sure couldn't stop the run. You know, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:20.920 you guys are hit it out the park. I mean 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.800 pretty much. When it comes down to it, it comes 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.840 down to not allowing teams to score and not giving 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.000 up yardage. If you give up yardage, you allow teams 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.680 to be in position to score. So obviously we didn't 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.320 do a good job of any of that this year. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.120 Then obviously if the scheme was not getting across as 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.479 well or you saw early on, you know, we brought 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.680 guys in to the organization that we thought were going 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.240 to be huge attributes in terms of veterans and they weren't. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.160 Were they not because they weren't good players, or were 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.000 they not because they didn't fit in his scheme. That's 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.200 a question that's gonna be asked now, Right, maybe those 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.520 guys weren't good enough players, but maybe just his scheme 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.760 didn't allow for them to be great. So now that's 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.520 a question that gets raised. And then you start looking 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.440 at the fact that they now have released a defensive 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.040 line coach. Well, typically defensive coordinators, yes, officeer coordination, Yes, 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.080 they have to take the fall. However, as soon as 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.520 you start releasing position coaches, now there's a communication issue. 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:09.560 Now there's a connectivity issue. Now there's guys that apparently 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.200 don't like that particular individual and obviously have an issue 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.000 with the system. So there's a whole lot of things 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.440 obviously that might be underlying factors as to why these 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.680 decisions got made. Rob you already hit on it in 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.440 the fact that turnovers, Yes, turnovers helped you in terms 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.080 of potentially helping you save your job. But at the 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:26.800 end of the day of the yardist who's killed you. 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.240 That's what was consistent, that's what never went down, and 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.560 I think that's what was frustrating about this defense ultimately 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.160 was you need turnovers to make it go round. You 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.400 need turnovers to make it work, and through the first 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.760 twelve weeks of the season that didn't happen. You didn't 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.040 have turnovers except for maybe Week eight against Philadelphia. There 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.159 was not a single moment in that season where you 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.839 felt like, hey, this is a momentum building type of 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.640 game for this defense. Well, you finally got that down 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.640 the stretch, But once again, who was it against. It 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.600 was against Cincinnati, San Francisco and Philadelphia Again, I mean, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.680 those are the teams that you forced turnover against. So 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.520 whenever it comes to the body of work, ultimately it 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.960 wasn't enough to keep Mike Nolan around. But Hetman, you 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.760 alluded to the system and how just complex it was 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.600 and how different it was. Last year. In the offseason, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.200 we were excited for change because we were coming off 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.520 of the Marinelli days and coming off of let's get 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.679 scheme players not the best players type of mentality, And 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.640 that change happened. We got better players, at least we 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.920 thought so, and we put them into a scheme. But 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.320 the scheme ultimately didn't work. So where do you sit 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.320 on the fence or where do all three of you 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.320 guys sit on the fence whenever it comes to scheme 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.000 versus talent on this Cowboys defense, because ultimately neither one 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.080 of them worked well. I mean, I think that the 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.640 coaches when they put a game plan together and they 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.160 have a base that they like to play, they want 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.760 certain types of guys, whether it be body style or 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.160 what have you, and previous defenses that they've played in. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.120 It just seemed like from the beginning that this defense 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.920 didn't sink in. And I don't know if it would 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.559 if these guys had an ota or preseason, if any 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.840 of it would have stuck because of how bad they 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.520 were not only bad in the turnover differential, but on 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.440 third downs, you know, they could not get off the field. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.280 And there were games out there, the Seattle games and 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.960 the Brown games. I keep going back to the Arizona 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 game where yeah, true, you're not getting turnovers, you're not 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.440 even presenting that pressure where you can get those scoop 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.080 and score sack strip fumbles, but you're not able to 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.200 get off the field. And just all of those things 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.000 were just indicators of that this defense was not gonna 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.679 have any success whether you know. Look, that's that's why 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.680 I think it's very important that we go ahead and 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.600 get a higher on our defensive coordinator asap, because what 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.880 scheme is that guy gonna be looking for? What is 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.480 he going to want to play? Is it gonna be 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.800 a one gap read two gap system? What is that 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.360 gonna be? And so whatever the Cowboys do going forward, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.400 they're gonna have to get the personnel together to be 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.320 able to have it in success, because if you look 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:03.559 at twenty twenty, man, this it just wasn't it. Yeah, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.560 I think it's a great combination of that. Heck, And 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:08.680 I kind of want to pose a question and just 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.040 imagine if we had our little number two lat pieces 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.440 right at a little number two pencils that they give you, right, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.240 no no race run it just to just to cut 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.079 off little short ones, right, And they gave you a 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:18.719 piece of paper and they had two circles and just 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:25.640 said do defensive coordinators create turnovers? Or do personnel create turnovers? Right? 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.000 And I think that's a question that you have to 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.080 ask yourself. Right, So when we started talking about you 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.400 know where those where those turnovers going to save his 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.960 job potentially? And I think as a general manager, as 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:35.600 an owner of organization, I think you have to look 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.800 at that and say, I think those are our players 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.560 that were forcing those turnovers are not so much as 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.920 the scheme, So why should those turnovers save his job? Yeah, 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.480 And the other factor there is your offense played better 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.280 down the stretch too. You finally got your offense kind 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.160 of rolling a little bit with a patchwork offensive line 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.000 and Andy Dalton with some time at quarterback, and when 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.040 you put up some points, now now your defense can 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.760 can pin their ears back a little bit. And it 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.880 does go back to what Kyle said about the competition 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.360 the final four games of the season. Competition was not 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.080 nearly as good as some of the teams they played 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.920 earlier in the season. But it is a complex discussion 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.160 because you know, you can certainly question the Mike Nolan 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.320 higher from the beginning and say, well, based on his 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.760 track record, defenses that he coordinated in the past did 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.400 not have a lot of success. But I do think 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:26.080 this was in large scope, you know, a mistake by 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.840 the organization in terms of Jerry has spoken of this, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:34.080 trying to implement too much change in a crazy offseason 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.400 with no in person offseason program. They Jerry said, look 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.520 the other day on the fan, that's on me. You know, 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.520 he signed off on that, and they were, I think 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:49.280 so excited about trying to shift away from those Marinella 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.679 years and trying to be a little bit more multiple, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.960 a little more different pre Snap that they crammed it 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.440 all in. It didn't work. And one thing Mike McCarthy 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.760 spoke to on the fan last week is part of 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.920 these exit interviews, he's getting a lot of a feedback 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:04.520 on we need to do a better job of our 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:09.640 virtual communication. The install was virtual in the spring and summer, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.199 you know, and then they had three weeks to get 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:12.520 on the field and try to put it on the field. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.439 So it's it's a complex discussion beyond Mike Dolan didn't 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.199 do a good job. I think there was a lot 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.280 of reasons why it didn't work, But ultimately he's the 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.040 defensive coordinator, and the final stats are I'm not gonna 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.840 be too nice here, heckma, I mean, the most points 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.320 allowed in franchise history, the second worst run defense in 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.439 the league, and just a gaggle of big plays allowed. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.960 It just something had to change. Hey, Rock, can we 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:40.920 go back and look at whatever Cleveland did for their 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.720 install this past week? Can we go back and just 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.160 just copy right. And you know what I was gonna 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.480 hit on that. That's a that's a great point. Did 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.160 you guys see Baker Mayfield's post postgame interview last night 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.520 where he talked he talked about, you know, patchwork offensive line, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.400 and he said, you know, this guy stepped up and 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.040 there's a guy named Zach or somebody that I introduced 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:03.719 myself to in the locker room pre game, and he 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.920 stepped into a great job at left guard. You know, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.160 like that now, that is the definition of adversity, and 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.559 that's why you hear it from Team brass like you cannot, 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.240 you know, stick those COVID excuses for too long because 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.520 other teams have made it work. That was another team 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:22.200 with a first year head coach as well, and a 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.199 whole entirely different coaching staff or new coaching staff, and 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.000 quite possibly Kevin Stefancy's gonna win Coach of the Year. 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:29.880 I mean, at least if he doesn't, he should be 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.600 in that conversation. I think he does end up winning 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.640 Coach of the Year. But with that's a great point, Rob, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.080 because you can make all of these excuses. Excuses are easy. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.880 It's always been that way. That's the cheap man's out 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.640 way out whenever it comes to two mistakes. And I 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.920 don't think Jerry made excuses on one O five three 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.160 to fan this past week whenever they were talking about 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.040 kind of the coaching higher and kind of the season 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.400 that went along. I don't believe he was necessarily making 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.800 excuses because there were challenges along the way. But Isaiah, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.280 do you really look at this as maybe the biggest 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.199 regret that maybe the front office had this past year 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.400 was hiring a guy like Mike Nolan and trying to 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.840 switch things up as emphatically as they did going into 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:14.480 a year like this. I say, no, I just think 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.360 it's I think it's just another guy that they just 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.800 swung a miss on. Unfortunately, you know, and unfortunately that 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.240 one guy controls everybody else. You know, they swung they 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.680 swung a miss on the safety obviously, right they on 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.600 han haha days they swung a miss on on freaking 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:33.079 uh poke right, I still right? So yeah, so haha, 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.320 you swung a miss, you know, and the pole swung 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.320 a miss and that strike two, strike three dog gone. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:40.960 A defensive coordinated right, But unfortunately the defensive coordinator has 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.199 a lot a greater effect over the result of your defense. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.640 So it's just if they just swung and miss this 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.160 all season, you know, and they have to go back 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.240 and have to reevaluate. See, hey, what what is it 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.000 that we that we use as analytics as reasons to 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.760 pick to select somebody? And how can we differ that 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.080 going forward? Because obviously what we did this year did 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.040 not work for us. And you guys have heard the 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.080 same hindsight as twenty twenty, you know, and so you 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:10.040 can look back at it. It's it's so good right now. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.440 But coming in Mike Nolan to hire, you know, we 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.840 were talking about his dad and the lineage of coaching 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.040 and all of that. Man, So you know, it was 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.680 just a failed attempt at bringing a guy in that 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.120 did not have a grasp on the personnel that he 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.360 had to try and play this over the top defense 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.920 that he was, you know, trying to implement. Look, the 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.080 Cowboys right now are in a situation where they have 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.840 got to figure this out up front to get the 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.720 personnel that they need to play the style that they want. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.920 What is that right, Are we're gonna stay in three? Four? 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.440 Are we're gonna go to a four? Three? Because if 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.240 you look around the NFL. If you look at a 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.680 team like New England Belichick, Belichick will play whatever defense 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.400 he needs to beat you. If you got a problem 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.160 with the Folly three, We're playing Folly three this week. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.920 But you have to have players virsatil enough and smart 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.000 enough to be able to play that. Now, I'm not 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.400 saying that how players were are not smart and willing. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.600 I'm just saying willing, we didn't have the guys to 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.760 play it. So let's not try and make something out 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:08.960 of these guys that they aren't. Let's get the guys 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.160 in here that we need that can actually we can 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.440 change these schemes and use words like hybrid as it 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.560 relates to players in the positions that they play. You 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.240 got it, Yeah, go ahead, now, I was gonna throw 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:21.640 at one point in there. The one thing I would 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.040 say I would add to that, heck, is the guys 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:24.840 have to be willing. You know, all those stings you 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.520 say are absolutely correct, but you have to have you 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.120 have to have the right personnel, the right type of 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.920 personalities on there, and right character that say, Hey, I 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.800 don't care what I normally would do, I don't care 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.640 what type of scheme I would flourish in best. I'm 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.400 doing this for the greater good of the team, and 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:38.760 I don't know if we have all those guys on 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.840 this team. Yeah yeah, I mean based on those um, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.720 what was it the unnamed sources early in the season, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.920 it sounded like there was some pushback at least somewhere, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.440 and then three veterans they parted ways with mid season, 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.600 Worley Poe and Everson Griffin. But you guys nailed it 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.320 like that's That's another part of this discussion that makes 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.280 it kind of complex, is the personnel part of it. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.200 You know, they did Isaiah, they swung and missed on 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.600 some some free agents, and they didn't multiple guys. Yeah, 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.040 you know, And I think, you know, I disagree with 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.320 people that say, well, this is the same defense that 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.520 was middle of the pack last year or the year 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.360 before with with Rod Marinelli in charge. I disagree with 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.640 that because I don't think, you know, I think they 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.160 missed Byron Jones. I think they missed MALIEK. Collins in 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.400 the middle of the defensive line especially, And you have 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.800 to factor injuries. You know, you lose Tristan Hill, you 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.280 lose Joe McCoy in camp. They could have used Jeff 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.480 Heath at safety. They could They definitely could have used 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.320 Jeff Heath at safety this year. Those positions were not 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.520 filled adequately, and you had some injuries on top of it, 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:43.440 and then you had whatever confusion disconnect with the scheme itself. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.600 It was just kind of like a perfect score storm 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.000 of The result is one of the worst defenses the 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.760 Cowboys have ever had statistically. And when you talk about 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.200 the guys and not having the right guys, I think 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.640 that's a great point because I think one of those 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.320 right guys was Byron Jones. And I think that's the 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.680 biggest loss from last year to twenty twenty was not 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.399 having Byron Jones because even though he didn't have the interceptions, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.639 everyone's going to look at the interceptions and say he 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:10.800 didn't have the picks. I don't want to hear that, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.280 because he locked down thirty three percent of your field, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.120 So that way ten other guys had to feel the 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.760 rest of the sixty seven percent of the rest of 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.280 the field. Two thirds of the field were where ten 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.600 guys were, and then one took care of a third 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.600 of the field. That's exactly what Byron Jones did, and 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.560 you didn't have that out there this year, but outside 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.119 of the personnel, Rob, do you feel like Mike Nolan 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.800 got a fair shot from his first year in his 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.439 only year in Dallas because you'd, like you said, you 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.800 could have questioned the hiring from the beginning. So he 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:46.040 got a shot. But was it a fair one? Yeah? 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.199 I mean I think so you had you had a 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.840 full season to try to put it together. I think 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.560 you know, as we mentioned earlier, the COVID excuse lasts 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.200 for a certain amount of time. But when you see 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.639 other teams having success, and I think the Cowboys officials 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.399 have said this, you know at a certain point you 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.200 can't you can't use it as an excuse. And I 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.000 don't say it's an unfair shot. I do say there 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.080 are other reasons besides Mike Nolan for why this didn't work. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.480 And look, and I'm this is it's a really good, 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.119 fun office that does a great job of evaluating talent. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.040 But there you know, there's some moves they made that 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.520 didn't work out, that didn't help help matters. Now, would 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.360 Mike Nolan have had more success with a full offseason 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.040 to implement his program, I have no doubt about that. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.960 But this is the way the world is, right now 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.480 and something had to change. And the other part of 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.560 it too is there we're going to find out what 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.760 the salary cap is. Odds are they're not going to 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:43.199 have a lot of room to make a bunch of 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.439 big changes to upgrade personnel. So what do you need 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.480 to do? Then you probably need to get a new voice. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.240 If you're going to change something, get a new voice, 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.879 new scheme, whatever you need to do to try to 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:57.720 make the players that you do have better. Isaiah, I'm 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.560 still laughing there wanting to say something. The nice Rob 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:06.200 was like, yeah, no, I always tried, but yeah, you can't. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:12.440 You can't. Y repeat the question for me, So, yeah, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.160 that's that's funny. It didn't Mike Nolan get a fair 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:20.639 shot here in Dallas. Uh. Fair is such a subjective term. UM, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.840 so yes, fair, yes, absolutely. He had all the resources, 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.280 he had, all the opportunity to all the support, um, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.119 and he had talent to work with. Initially, boom, a 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.159 fair shot. Get in there. You try to get your 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.359 system in. Everybody had the same opportunity, try to try to, um, 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.480 you know, teach their system via virtual uh this year 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.760 Um and then guess what guys that he brought in 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.680 you know along with Will McClay and everybody else. Guess what, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.160 they didn't work out. They didn't work out. Your your 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.160 guys that you had your mark on did not work. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.399 As if he was supported. You have say in the 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.400 type of players that you want, and you can best 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.400