Speaker 1: The following He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This he's Talking Cowboys,
Speaker 1: Screaming live from the Dallas Cowboys World Hours at the
Speaker 1: Star in Frisco. That's got pictures and now your hosts
Speaker 1: Isaiah Stanback, heckm Harrison, Rob Phillips, and Kyle Yeoman's. It's
Speaker 1: an offseason edition of Talking Cowboys presented by Geico from
Speaker 1: the s WBC Mortgage Studios. Virtually as always, or at
Speaker 1: least what it's been like for the past ten months,
Speaker 1: but we're continuing to break down this Dallas Cowboys team
Speaker 1: and a lot of breaking news that hit the fans
Speaker 1: since well, I guess Friday, but we are technically the
Speaker 1: first show that gets to talk about it. But we're
Speaker 1: gonna break down an entire coaching search, a coach firing,
Speaker 1: and really an overahaul in the span of an hour.
Speaker 1: So buckle up, ladies and gentlemen and come along for
Speaker 1: the ride. We're excited to bring you along with as
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeoman's alongside heck My Harrison, Rob Phillips and Isaiah
Speaker 1: stand back and gentlemen, let's jump right into this. Mike Nolan.
Speaker 1: As of Friday afternoon, it was officially reported and released
Speaker 1: that he was let go of his duties as defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys. Jim tom Sula was also
Speaker 1: on that list, and really twelve months almost to the
Speaker 1: day that we were hiring Mike McCarthy last year, you
Speaker 1: turn around and you fire a defensive coordinator. Initially, Mike
Speaker 1: Nolan wasn't in Dallas long enough to the fact that
Speaker 1: if you go in you google Cowboys defensive coordinator, the
Speaker 1: first pictures that pop up are Rod Marinelli and Chris
Speaker 1: Richard at the first pictures that pop up on Google
Speaker 1: if you go in google Cowboys defensive coordinator. But Rob
Speaker 1: kind of tell us how this went down and what
Speaker 1: your thoughts of the move are for Cowboys Nation. It
Speaker 1: was a move that wasn't necessarily surprising. No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Kyle and I know we've had our discussion on the
Speaker 1: show the last you know, a couple of weeks, like
Speaker 1: what were the chances that he could be back if
Speaker 1: they continued on an upward trend defensively, and obviously the
Speaker 1: takeaways went up the last four games of the season.
Speaker 1: I believe they had twelve takeaways, which more than double
Speaker 1: what they had or close to it early in the season,
Speaker 1: but they just didn't see enough improvement overall. And you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of got the sense that by mid December,
Speaker 1: after that Ravens game, I think it was pretty clear
Speaker 1: that they were at least looking hard at making a change.
Speaker 1: And while there was improvement down the stretch, the Giants
Speaker 1: game in the finale last week really was kind of
Speaker 1: another step backward in terms of yards given up, points
Speaker 1: given up, big plays given up. And I just quickly
Speaker 1: looked at the stats during that four game stretch, guys
Speaker 1: where we talked about where they made some progress, they
Speaker 1: felt like they were more comfortable in the scheme. All
Speaker 1: of that, they still gave up an average of three
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety five yards in those four games where
Speaker 1: they won three out of four, and that's and that's
Speaker 1: that's actually more. That's actually more per game than they'd
Speaker 1: average for the season. That was three eighty six. Now,
Speaker 1: the run defense, which is the big, one of the
Speaker 1: biggest reasons why they made the change, and obviously Jim
Speaker 1: tom Seula d line coach, not back either. They gave
Speaker 1: up one hundred and thirty one rushing yards in those
Speaker 1: last four games one hundred and fifty eight average for
Speaker 1: the season. So I don't think they saw enough improvement
Speaker 1: down the stretch guys to really make a difference. Heck, Rob,
Speaker 1: you're so nice man. I'll tell you, man, the way
Speaker 1: the two word it is you put it at love.
Speaker 1: I love that. But you know, all of those things,
Speaker 1: and you talk about the Ravens game actually being the
Speaker 1: indictment on him as a coach, and this whole defense
Speaker 1: from just start to finish, you look at them if
Speaker 1: you're gonna take the last four games. Okay, that's just
Speaker 1: a sample size, but you go back to games like
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns game where we were just not able
Speaker 1: to stop anybody, and I think this defense and whatever
Speaker 1: scheme they were playing too gap Reid for the D lineman,
Speaker 1: the secondary. No one understood this defense at all. And
Speaker 1: that's where you had those anonymous sources that leaked reports
Speaker 1: to James Slater saying that this defensive coordinated staff, where
Speaker 1: the staff didn't know what they were talking, what they
Speaker 1: were doing, and it just started early. It started early,
Speaker 1: and you you know, and for guys like Jalen Smith,
Speaker 1: who I could say it's probably one of his worst
Speaker 1: years as far as you know, statistics say that obviously
Speaker 1: he made a lot of tackles, but just the eyeball
Speaker 1: test was saying that man fifty four did not know
Speaker 1: where he was. And you saw a lot of that
Speaker 1: from guy's just trying to freestyle this doing their own
Speaker 1: way because they were lost the whole season. Then look,
Speaker 1: if you tried, you know, those those turnovers may have
Speaker 1: been where people started to talk about, Okay, is he
Speaker 1: is there a chance that he's saving his job? But nah,
Speaker 1: it just it just wasn't enough. We could protect the
Speaker 1: boundary and we darn't sure couldn't stop the run. You know,
Speaker 1: you guys are hit it out the park. I mean
Speaker 1: pretty much. When it comes down to it, it comes
Speaker 1: down to not allowing teams to score and not giving
Speaker 1: up yardage. If you give up yardage, you allow teams
Speaker 1: to be in position to score. So obviously we didn't
Speaker 1: do a good job of any of that this year.
Speaker 1: Then obviously if the scheme was not getting across as
Speaker 1: well or you saw early on, you know, we brought
Speaker 1: guys in to the organization that we thought were going
Speaker 1: to be huge attributes in terms of veterans and they weren't.
Speaker 1: Were they not because they weren't good players, or were
Speaker 1: they not because they didn't fit in his scheme. That's
Speaker 1: a question that's gonna be asked now, Right, maybe those
Speaker 1: guys weren't good enough players, but maybe just his scheme
Speaker 1: didn't allow for them to be great. So now that's
Speaker 1: a question that gets raised. And then you start looking
Speaker 1: at the fact that they now have released a defensive
Speaker 1: line coach. Well, typically defensive coordinators, yes, officeer coordination, Yes,
Speaker 1: they have to take the fall. However, as soon as
Speaker 1: you start releasing position coaches, now there's a communication issue.
Speaker 1: Now there's a connectivity issue. Now there's guys that apparently
Speaker 1: don't like that particular individual and obviously have an issue
Speaker 1: with the system. So there's a whole lot of things
Speaker 1: obviously that might be underlying factors as to why these
Speaker 1: decisions got made. Rob you already hit on it in
Speaker 1: the fact that turnovers, Yes, turnovers helped you in terms
Speaker 1: of potentially helping you save your job. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day of the yardist who's killed you.
Speaker 1: That's what was consistent, that's what never went down, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what was frustrating about this defense ultimately
Speaker 1: was you need turnovers to make it go round. You
Speaker 1: need turnovers to make it work, and through the first
Speaker 1: twelve weeks of the season that didn't happen. You didn't
Speaker 1: have turnovers except for maybe Week eight against Philadelphia. There
Speaker 1: was not a single moment in that season where you
Speaker 1: felt like, hey, this is a momentum building type of
Speaker 1: game for this defense. Well, you finally got that down
Speaker 1: the stretch, But once again, who was it against. It
Speaker 1: was against Cincinnati, San Francisco and Philadelphia Again, I mean,
Speaker 1: those are the teams that you forced turnover against. So
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to the body of work, ultimately it
Speaker 1: wasn't enough to keep Mike Nolan around. But Hetman, you
Speaker 1: alluded to the system and how just complex it was
Speaker 1: and how different it was. Last year. In the offseason,
Speaker 1: we were excited for change because we were coming off
Speaker 1: of the Marinelli days and coming off of let's get
Speaker 1: scheme players not the best players type of mentality, And
Speaker 1: that change happened. We got better players, at least we
Speaker 1: thought so, and we put them into a scheme. But
Speaker 1: the scheme ultimately didn't work. So where do you sit
Speaker 1: on the fence or where do all three of you
Speaker 1: guys sit on the fence whenever it comes to scheme
Speaker 1: versus talent on this Cowboys defense, because ultimately neither one
Speaker 1: of them worked well. I mean, I think that the
Speaker 1: coaches when they put a game plan together and they
Speaker 1: have a base that they like to play, they want
Speaker 1: certain types of guys, whether it be body style or
Speaker 1: what have you, and previous defenses that they've played in.
Speaker 1: It just seemed like from the beginning that this defense
Speaker 1: didn't sink in. And I don't know if it would
Speaker 1: if these guys had an ota or preseason, if any
Speaker 1: of it would have stuck because of how bad they
Speaker 1: were not only bad in the turnover differential, but on
Speaker 1: third downs, you know, they could not get off the field.
Speaker 1: And there were games out there, the Seattle games and
Speaker 1: the Brown games. I keep going back to the Arizona
Speaker 1: game where yeah, true, you're not getting turnovers, you're not
Speaker 1: even presenting that pressure where you can get those scoop
Speaker 1: and score sack strip fumbles, but you're not able to
Speaker 1: get off the field. And just all of those things
Speaker 1: were just indicators of that this defense was not gonna
Speaker 1: have any success whether you know. Look, that's that's why
Speaker 1: I think it's very important that we go ahead and
Speaker 1: get a higher on our defensive coordinator asap, because what
Speaker 1: scheme is that guy gonna be looking for? What is
Speaker 1: he going to want to play? Is it gonna be
Speaker 1: a one gap read two gap system? What is that
Speaker 1: gonna be? And so whatever the Cowboys do going forward,
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to get the personnel together to be
Speaker 1: able to have it in success, because if you look
Speaker 1: at twenty twenty, man, this it just wasn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a great combination of that. Heck, And
Speaker 1: I kind of want to pose a question and just
Speaker 1: imagine if we had our little number two lat pieces
Speaker 1: right at a little number two pencils that they give you, right,
Speaker 1: no no race run it just to just to cut
Speaker 1: off little short ones, right, And they gave you a
Speaker 1: piece of paper and they had two circles and just
Speaker 1: said do defensive coordinators create turnovers? Or do personnel create turnovers? Right?
Speaker 1: And I think that's a question that you have to
Speaker 1: ask yourself. Right, So when we started talking about you
Speaker 1: know where those where those turnovers going to save his
Speaker 1: job potentially? And I think as a general manager, as
Speaker 1: an owner of organization, I think you have to look
Speaker 1: at that and say, I think those are our players
Speaker 1: that were forcing those turnovers are not so much as
Speaker 1: the scheme, So why should those turnovers save his job? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the other factor there is your offense played better
Speaker 1: down the stretch too. You finally got your offense kind
Speaker 1: of rolling a little bit with a patchwork offensive line
Speaker 1: and Andy Dalton with some time at quarterback, and when
Speaker 1: you put up some points, now now your defense can
Speaker 1: can pin their ears back a little bit. And it
Speaker 1: does go back to what Kyle said about the competition
Speaker 1: the final four games of the season. Competition was not
Speaker 1: nearly as good as some of the teams they played
Speaker 1: earlier in the season. But it is a complex discussion
Speaker 1: because you know, you can certainly question the Mike Nolan
Speaker 1: higher from the beginning and say, well, based on his
Speaker 1: track record, defenses that he coordinated in the past did
Speaker 1: not have a lot of success. But I do think
Speaker 1: this was in large scope, you know, a mistake by
Speaker 1: the organization in terms of Jerry has spoken of this,
Speaker 1: trying to implement too much change in a crazy offseason
Speaker 1: with no in person offseason program. They Jerry said, look
Speaker 1: the other day on the fan, that's on me. You know,
Speaker 1: he signed off on that, and they were, I think
Speaker 1: so excited about trying to shift away from those Marinella
Speaker 1: years and trying to be a little bit more multiple,
Speaker 1: a little more different pre Snap that they crammed it
Speaker 1: all in. It didn't work. And one thing Mike McCarthy
Speaker 1: spoke to on the fan last week is part of
Speaker 1: these exit interviews, he's getting a lot of a feedback
Speaker 1: on we need to do a better job of our
Speaker 1: virtual communication. The install was virtual in the spring and summer,
Speaker 1: you know, and then they had three weeks to get
Speaker 1: on the field and try to put it on the field.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a complex discussion beyond Mike Dolan didn't
Speaker 1: do a good job. I think there was a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons why it didn't work, But ultimately he's the
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator, and the final stats are I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be too nice here, heckma, I mean, the most points
Speaker 1: allowed in franchise history, the second worst run defense in
Speaker 1: the league, and just a gaggle of big plays allowed.
Speaker 1: It just something had to change. Hey, Rock, can we
Speaker 1: go back and look at whatever Cleveland did for their
Speaker 1: install this past week? Can we go back and just
Speaker 1: just copy right. And you know what I was gonna
Speaker 1: hit on that. That's a that's a great point. Did
Speaker 1: you guys see Baker Mayfield's post postgame interview last night
Speaker 1: where he talked he talked about, you know, patchwork offensive line,
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, this guy stepped up and
Speaker 1: there's a guy named Zach or somebody that I introduced
Speaker 1: myself to in the locker room pre game, and he
Speaker 1: stepped into a great job at left guard. You know,
Speaker 1: like that now, that is the definition of adversity, and
Speaker 1: that's why you hear it from Team brass like you cannot,
Speaker 1: you know, stick those COVID excuses for too long because
Speaker 1: other teams have made it work. That was another team
Speaker 1: with a first year head coach as well, and a
Speaker 1: whole entirely different coaching staff or new coaching staff, and
Speaker 1: quite possibly Kevin Stefancy's gonna win Coach of the Year.
Speaker 1: I mean, at least if he doesn't, he should be
Speaker 1: in that conversation. I think he does end up winning
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year. But with that's a great point, Rob,
Speaker 1: because you can make all of these excuses. Excuses are easy.
Speaker 1: It's always been that way. That's the cheap man's out
Speaker 1: way out whenever it comes to two mistakes. And I
Speaker 1: don't think Jerry made excuses on one O five three
Speaker 1: to fan this past week whenever they were talking about
Speaker 1: kind of the coaching higher and kind of the season
Speaker 1: that went along. I don't believe he was necessarily making
Speaker 1: excuses because there were challenges along the way. But Isaiah,
Speaker 1: do you really look at this as maybe the biggest
Speaker 1: regret that maybe the front office had this past year
Speaker 1: was hiring a guy like Mike Nolan and trying to
Speaker 1: switch things up as emphatically as they did going into
Speaker 1: a year like this. I say, no, I just think
Speaker 1: it's I think it's just another guy that they just
Speaker 1: swung a miss on. Unfortunately, you know, and unfortunately that
Speaker 1: one guy controls everybody else. You know, they swung they
Speaker 1: swung a miss on the safety obviously, right they on
Speaker 1: han haha days they swung a miss on on freaking
Speaker 1: uh poke right, I still right? So yeah, so haha,
Speaker 1: you swung a miss, you know, and the pole swung
Speaker 1: a miss and that strike two, strike three dog gone.
Speaker 1: A defensive coordinated right, But unfortunately the defensive coordinator has
Speaker 1: a lot a greater effect over the result of your defense.
Speaker 1: So it's just if they just swung and miss this
Speaker 1: all season, you know, and they have to go back
Speaker 1: and have to reevaluate. See, hey, what what is it
Speaker 1: that we that we use as analytics as reasons to
Speaker 1: pick to select somebody? And how can we differ that
Speaker 1: going forward? Because obviously what we did this year did
Speaker 1: not work for us. And you guys have heard the
Speaker 1: same hindsight as twenty twenty, you know, and so you
Speaker 1: can look back at it. It's it's so good right now.
Speaker 1: But coming in Mike Nolan to hire, you know, we
Speaker 1: were talking about his dad and the lineage of coaching
Speaker 1: and all of that. Man, So you know, it was
Speaker 1: just a failed attempt at bringing a guy in that
Speaker 1: did not have a grasp on the personnel that he
Speaker 1: had to try and play this over the top defense
Speaker 1: that he was, you know, trying to implement. Look, the
Speaker 1: Cowboys right now are in a situation where they have
Speaker 1: got to figure this out up front to get the
Speaker 1: personnel that they need to play the style that they want.
Speaker 1: What is that right, Are we're gonna stay in three? Four?
Speaker 1: Are we're gonna go to a four? Three? Because if
Speaker 1: you look around the NFL. If you look at a
Speaker 1: team like New England Belichick, Belichick will play whatever defense
Speaker 1: he needs to beat you. If you got a problem
Speaker 1: with the Folly three, We're playing Folly three this week.
Speaker 1: But you have to have players virsatil enough and smart
Speaker 1: enough to be able to play that. Now, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that how players were are not smart and willing.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying willing, we didn't have the guys to
Speaker 1: play it. So let's not try and make something out
Speaker 1: of these guys that they aren't. Let's get the guys
Speaker 1: in here that we need that can actually we can
Speaker 1: change these schemes and use words like hybrid as it
Speaker 1: relates to players in the positions that they play. You
Speaker 1: got it, Yeah, go ahead, now, I was gonna throw
Speaker 1: at one point in there. The one thing I would
Speaker 1: say I would add to that, heck, is the guys
Speaker 1: have to be willing. You know, all those stings you
Speaker 1: say are absolutely correct, but you have to have you
Speaker 1: have to have the right personnel, the right type of
Speaker 1: personalities on there, and right character that say, Hey, I
Speaker 1: don't care what I normally would do, I don't care
Speaker 1: what type of scheme I would flourish in best. I'm
Speaker 1: doing this for the greater good of the team, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if we have all those guys on
Speaker 1: this team. Yeah yeah, I mean based on those um,
Speaker 1: what was it the unnamed sources early in the season,
Speaker 1: it sounded like there was some pushback at least somewhere,
Speaker 1: and then three veterans they parted ways with mid season,
Speaker 1: Worley Poe and Everson Griffin. But you guys nailed it
Speaker 1: like that's That's another part of this discussion that makes
Speaker 1: it kind of complex, is the personnel part of it.
Speaker 1: You know, they did Isaiah, they swung and missed on
Speaker 1: some some free agents, and they didn't multiple guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think, you know, I disagree with
Speaker 1: people that say, well, this is the same defense that
Speaker 1: was middle of the pack last year or the year
Speaker 1: before with with Rod Marinelli in charge. I disagree with
Speaker 1: that because I don't think, you know, I think they
Speaker 1: missed Byron Jones. I think they missed MALIEK. Collins in
Speaker 1: the middle of the defensive line especially, And you have
Speaker 1: to factor injuries. You know, you lose Tristan Hill, you
Speaker 1: lose Joe McCoy in camp. They could have used Jeff
Speaker 1: Heath at safety. They could They definitely could have used
Speaker 1: Jeff Heath at safety this year. Those positions were not
Speaker 1: filled adequately, and you had some injuries on top of it,
Speaker 1: and then you had whatever confusion disconnect with the scheme itself.
Speaker 1: It was just kind of like a perfect score storm
Speaker 1: of The result is one of the worst defenses the
Speaker 1: Cowboys have ever had statistically. And when you talk about
Speaker 1: the guys and not having the right guys, I think
Speaker 1: that's a great point because I think one of those
Speaker 1: right guys was Byron Jones. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: biggest loss from last year to twenty twenty was not
Speaker 1: having Byron Jones because even though he didn't have the interceptions,
Speaker 1: everyone's going to look at the interceptions and say he
Speaker 1: didn't have the picks. I don't want to hear that,
Speaker 1: because he locked down thirty three percent of your field,
Speaker 1: So that way ten other guys had to feel the
Speaker 1: rest of the sixty seven percent of the rest of
Speaker 1: the field. Two thirds of the field were where ten
Speaker 1: guys were, and then one took care of a third
Speaker 1: of the field. That's exactly what Byron Jones did, and
Speaker 1: you didn't have that out there this year, but outside
Speaker 1: of the personnel, Rob, do you feel like Mike Nolan
Speaker 1: got a fair shot from his first year in his
Speaker 1: only year in Dallas because you'd, like you said, you
Speaker 1: could have questioned the hiring from the beginning. So he
Speaker 1: got a shot. But was it a fair one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I think so you had you had a
Speaker 1: full season to try to put it together. I think
Speaker 1: you know, as we mentioned earlier, the COVID excuse lasts
Speaker 1: for a certain amount of time. But when you see
Speaker 1: other teams having success, and I think the Cowboys officials
Speaker 1: have said this, you know at a certain point you
Speaker 1: can't you can't use it as an excuse. And I
Speaker 1: don't say it's an unfair shot. I do say there
Speaker 1: are other reasons besides Mike Nolan for why this didn't work.
Speaker 1: And look, and I'm this is it's a really good,
Speaker 1: fun office that does a great job of evaluating talent.
Speaker 1: But there you know, there's some moves they made that
Speaker 1: didn't work out, that didn't help help matters. Now, would
Speaker 1: Mike Nolan have had more success with a full offseason
Speaker 1: to implement his program, I have no doubt about that.
Speaker 1: But this is the way the world is, right now
Speaker 1: and something had to change. And the other part of
Speaker 1: it too is there we're going to find out what
Speaker 1: the salary cap is. Odds are they're not going to
Speaker 1: have a lot of room to make a bunch of
Speaker 1: big changes to upgrade personnel. So what do you need
Speaker 1: to do? Then you probably need to get a new voice.
Speaker 1: If you're going to change something, get a new voice,
Speaker 1: new scheme, whatever you need to do to try to
Speaker 1: make the players that you do have better. Isaiah, I'm
Speaker 1: still laughing there wanting to say something. The nice Rob
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, no, I always tried, but yeah, you can't.
Speaker 1: You can't. Y repeat the question for me, So, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's funny. It didn't Mike Nolan get a fair
Speaker 1: shot here in Dallas. Uh. Fair is such a subjective term. UM,
Speaker 1: so yes, fair, yes, absolutely. He had all the resources,
Speaker 1: he had, all the opportunity to all the support, um,
Speaker 1: and he had talent to work with. Initially, boom, a
Speaker 1: fair shot. Get in there. You try to get your
Speaker 1: system in. Everybody had the same opportunity, try to try to, um,
Speaker 1: you know, teach their system via virtual uh this year
Speaker 1: Um and then guess what guys that he brought in
Speaker 1: you know along with Will McClay and everybody else. Guess what,
Speaker 1: they didn't work out. They didn't work out. Your your
Speaker 1: guys that you had your mark on did not work.
Speaker 1: As if he was supported. You have say in the
Speaker 1: type of players that you want, and you can best
Speaker 1: believe that he went to Will McClay went to Missus
Speaker 1: Jones and say, hey, I want Griffin, I want Pole,
Speaker 1: I like Worthy. These guys work for what I'm going
Speaker 1: to try to do. They definitely they definitely talk to
Speaker 1: him about that. So you can best believe that he
Speaker 1: had a pardon that. So guess what he swung a
Speaker 1: miss on those personnel. Then he had injuries. Crap, guess what.
Speaker 1: Injuries suck? They suck, right, They suck for the players,
Speaker 1: They suck for the for the guy, for the for
Speaker 1: the defensive coordinators and I out there trying to figure
Speaker 1: things out. So but as a defensive coordinator, guess what,
Speaker 1: you have to adapt? You have to adapt. You just
Speaker 1: heck me, you just talked about coach Belichick king of
Speaker 1: an adaptation, right, he just figures it out. He doesn't
Speaker 1: care whatever personnel he has. He got his butt kick
Speaker 1: this year. But do guess what he had what ten
Speaker 1: or eleven starters that decided to to sit out this year? Right,
Speaker 1: But guess what, you still play competitive ball. You still
Speaker 1: figure out a way to go out there and try
Speaker 1: to put your best foot forward. And the other notice
Speaker 1: is he was coaching, Nolan was unable to convince his
Speaker 1: guys to play for him. Yeah, and that's just a
Speaker 1: respect factor. Guys play for people that they respect. Were
Speaker 1: we in the locker room, not at all? Were we
Speaker 1: at practice this year not at all? Right? But for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, there was a disconnect there. And at no point,
Speaker 1: at no point did it seemed like these guys were
Speaker 1: playing for their coach. And you could take that same
Speaker 1: correlation and look at other teams and it appears at
Speaker 1: certain times, most times they're playing for their coaches. Um.
Speaker 1: Last night was a perfect example for Cleveland. Cleveland come
Speaker 1: out and busted Pittsburgh in the mouth. Their coach wasn't
Speaker 1: even there, wasn't even there. You could best believe they're
Speaker 1: playing for their coach. You could see the difference. Hey
Speaker 1: moa like sixty years of cowboy football and Mike Nolan's
Speaker 1: defense gave up the most points and second and most yards.
Speaker 1: Heads were gonna roll you knew it. I mean, and
Speaker 1: I don't mean to say that about mean coach. Coaches
Speaker 1: have families and this, you know, I'm I know all
Speaker 1: too well that that that you know, you don't want
Speaker 1: to see guys have to uproot their whole families and
Speaker 1: things in this situation. But something had to give. And
Speaker 1: for the historic numbers that this defense put up, there
Speaker 1: was no way they were gonna bring him back. And
Speaker 1: it didn't matter aside from making a playoff run that
Speaker 1: I mean, they had to make a significant playoff run
Speaker 1: for him to keep his job. But but yeah, the
Speaker 1: numbers and the writing was on the wall, especially like
Speaker 1: you said, Rob after the Ravens game. And the other
Speaker 1: part of it too is looking forward. You know, we
Speaker 1: talk about the challenges of a virtual offseason, it quite
Speaker 1: possibly could be the same situation by the time we
Speaker 1: get to April. We'll see. I mean, he well, I
Speaker 1: hate to break Brandon. He referenced that last week that
Speaker 1: that it's you know, we've got to improve that part
Speaker 1: of our off season training in the event that we
Speaker 1: have to keep doing that. So they did not do
Speaker 1: well with that last year, and so that's going to
Speaker 1: be a challenge for the next defensive coordinator whoever that is.
Speaker 1: And we'll get into that soon, Kyle. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: feel like we all learned a lesson in the point
Speaker 1: of let's not throw a party until we know a
Speaker 1: free agent's going to work out, because ever and haha,
Speaker 1: Clinton Dix and Dontarre Poe and Brandon and car I mean,
Speaker 1: there were so many different signings that we were like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great. We're gonna go win a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl because we finally have a defense. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: didn't work out because hey, everything is great until you
Speaker 1: put it on the field, and then you got to
Speaker 1: actually play the game, and that's why they do end
Speaker 1: up playing the games. Now, I want to take a
Speaker 1: moment here before our first break to give a special
Speaker 1: shout out to one of our favorite Talking Cowboys listeners.
Speaker 1: And all of you who listened to Talking Cowboys are
Speaker 1: our favorite listeners, but John Nelson is a favorite because
Speaker 1: he listens across the pond. He's out in the UK
Speaker 1: listening to us, and he's a huge Cowboys fan, big
Speaker 1: Liverpool fan. He likes LSU as well. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Dave Hellman somewhere is smiling along the way. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, but John Nelson Happy birthday. It is his
Speaker 1: birthday today and he wanted a shout out, So we're
Speaker 1: gonna give you a Talking Cowboys shout out because you've
Speaker 1: always been super supportive of us, and we love all
Speaker 1: our Talking Cowboys fans, so quick shout out to John Nelson.
Speaker 1: When we come back though here on Talking Cowboys for us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go, There you go. When we come back
Speaker 1: here on Talking Cowboys. Who is the favorite to replace
Speaker 1: Mike Nolan as the defensive coordinator. We've got seven names
Speaker 1: for you to talk about. Coming up on the other
Speaker 1: side of the break. We'll be right back here. I'll
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Speaker 1: To Talk in Cowboys, it's Talking Cowboys offseason edition number
Speaker 1: one here from the virtual SWBC Mortgage Studios, and whether
Speaker 1: you're watching from home or you're cheering in the stands
Speaker 1: with slore lenses, you can see every exciting play book
Speaker 1: an appointment at your local experts and see what selor
Speaker 1: can do for you. See more, do more or Isaiah
Speaker 1: stand back as always, Rob Phillips, heck my Harrison. I'm
Speaker 1: Kyle Yeomans. As we head into our second segment here
Speaker 1: of our offseason edition of Talking Cowboys. Here's the good news,
Speaker 1: So you don't necessarily get Talking Cowboys every day, and
Speaker 1: I hate that for everybody. That's a big frowny face
Speaker 1: all the way through because of the off season. However,
Speaker 1: instead of having a forty five minute show, you get
Speaker 1: an hour worth of talking cowboys to listen to you.
Speaker 1: That's always fun. We get an hour long show. So
Speaker 1: we are just we're about halfway through here on this
Speaker 1: Monday morning. But of course we're talking about the defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator and Mike Nolan out after one year as the
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys. And there's already been
Speaker 1: reports and quickly moving processes whenever you talk about hiring
Speaker 1: a new defensive coordinator, and that's kind of what it
Speaker 1: needs to be. Whenever the Dallas Cowboys fire a defensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: you'd need to hire one pretty quick. Well, I've got
Speaker 1: seven names that could potentially be the next defensive coordinator
Speaker 1: as of the Dallas Cowboys. Now, there have been two
Speaker 1: that have been really rumored around interviews and one that
Speaker 1: is apparently flying in rob and that's Dan Quinn. Tell
Speaker 1: me about what the latest updates are around Dan Quinn,
Speaker 1: the former head coach of the Atlanta Falcons, and what
Speaker 1: is the potential with him coming in. I want to
Speaker 1: hear these o their six names. Yeah, okay, you want first, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want the sixth first. Okay, So I'll go down
Speaker 1: the list. Dan Quinn is number one, and I think
Speaker 1: that's the most likely option. Number two on that list,
Speaker 1: it's George Edwards, number three, Matt Patricia, number four, Joe Barry,
Speaker 1: Gus Bradley is my fifth name. Winston Moss is the
Speaker 1: sixth name. Actually I miscounted. I only have six names,
Speaker 1: so I thought I had seven, but I have six.
Speaker 1: So that's disappointed. How about this, I'll throw Isaiah stand
Speaker 1: back in there. That's it'll be the seventh name. You're welcome, everybody.
Speaker 1: So seven names to replace Mike Nolan as as defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1: So dan Quinn, George Edwards, Matt Patricia, Joe Berry, Winston Moss,
Speaker 1: and Gus Bradley. And if it's none of those names,
Speaker 1: I will I'll, I don't know, I'll don't do it.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make another bet. I don't. I've already
Speaker 1: gotten in trouble. Run to the Star. Well, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna run to the Star and back. It's not gonna
Speaker 1: happen if something else happens there. But tell me about
Speaker 1: dan Quinn, Rod Phillips. Well, there's two names that you
Speaker 1: didn't have on your list that the Cowboys have actually
Speaker 1: talked to you already, and that's Joe Witt Junior and
Speaker 1: Jason that was the other name that I forgot to
Speaker 1: rote right down, both of them Green Bay, both of
Speaker 1: whom worked with Mike McCarthy's on his staff in Green Bay.
Speaker 1: They are currently the passing game coordinators slash secondary coaches.
Speaker 1: Joe Witt in Atlanta, Jason Simmons in Carolina. So obviously
Speaker 1: there's familiarity there that's always important. But with dan Quinn
Speaker 1: flying in according to reports, I mean, that's that's a
Speaker 1: pretty good sign. There's there's good interest on both sides,
Speaker 1: and so um, whether that gets done, we'll see. But
Speaker 1: at this point I would have to assume he's the
Speaker 1: leading candidate, and based on resume, he probably should be,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, I mean a former head coach. And
Speaker 1: by the way, Mike McCarthy's, there's a pattern there, whether
Speaker 1: it's intentional or not. He has hired former head coaches
Speaker 1: as his defensive coordinators in the past. It was Dom
Speaker 1: Caper's for many years in Green Bay. It was Mike
Speaker 1: Nolan last year. Yeah, and I've seen him on list too,
Speaker 1: just kind of guessing who he might go to here.
Speaker 1: But Quinn, I mean, his resume speaks for herself. Guys.
Speaker 1: I mean he's been two Super Bowl as a head coach,
Speaker 1: He's been a two Super Bowls as a defensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: and arguably was the defensive coordinator for one of the
Speaker 1: top I don't know Isaiah three four defenses that we've
Speaker 1: ever seen with the LEAs ever. Yeah, ever, Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: Dave Qui is a good dude. Man, He's a good dude.
Speaker 1: Gus Bradley, obviously, I have favoritism towards both of those
Speaker 1: guys because I've obviously been with both of those guys
Speaker 1: at any given point in time. Gus Bradley was actually
Speaker 1: my head coach when I was down with jaw Jacksonville.
Speaker 1: He was a defensive coordinator when I was with Seattle.
Speaker 1: Both of those guys are a great, high energy individuals.
Speaker 1: They're all about positive energy. They're all about competition. There
Speaker 1: is no favoritism at all. You earn your key every day.
Speaker 1: They're going to bring more fire than you bring to
Speaker 1: the job. It's a it's a positive work environment. And
Speaker 1: they're both just awesome and they're both creative. They're both
Speaker 1: very created there that they adapt very well. It's not
Speaker 1: like they're stuck in their ways. They learn on the goal,
Speaker 1: They adapt on a goal, They adjusted their personnel. One
Speaker 1: thing that they both do really well is they put
Speaker 1: their guys in position to be successful. Guess what if
Speaker 1: you're if you're thinking about like a Bruce Irvin, if
Speaker 1: you're Bruce Irvan, you're an undersize your undersized defensive end.
Speaker 1: But guess what you can get to the quarterback? Guess
Speaker 1: what you are. You're a dog on defensive end. You're
Speaker 1: not a linebacker today. You play d n because we
Speaker 1: need you to get there, We need you to get home.
Speaker 1: We don't care what the stats said, what it says
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be, you're supposed to be this big,
Speaker 1: and you're supposed to have as much weight. We don't care.
Speaker 1: As long as you could do your job and do
Speaker 1: it effectively and bring energy to this team and help
Speaker 1: everybody else do their job well, then guess what, I
Speaker 1: have a role for you on the squad. So that's
Speaker 1: what both of those guys bring. And I'll be excited
Speaker 1: if either one of those guys are coming in. You know,
Speaker 1: I really, I really don't have a problem with if
Speaker 1: the potential of a dan Quinn higher It's just you know,
Speaker 1: when I look at his coaching history twenty thirteen with
Speaker 1: the Seahawks, man he inherited one hell of a second
Speaker 1: for the leading the boom. I mean he inherited some dogs.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you better have some positive energy you got,
Speaker 1: Earl scherm Cam. I mean, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to come to work upset when you got that
Speaker 1: many goons in your meeting room. Right. So, and also
Speaker 1: going back to him as a head coach, I think
Speaker 1: just the wills fell off of his of the team
Speaker 1: once they lost the Super Bowl to Tom Brady and
Speaker 1: the fashion that they did, so let's talk about it, right. Also,
Speaker 1: the numbers in the Atlanta they're passing defense is worse
Speaker 1: than hours, So okay, I mean, look, I think that's cool.
Speaker 1: Like I understand hiring head coaches and all of that,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think that this team, I think
Speaker 1: that when you look at coaching in general, going with
Speaker 1: these names is all right, But this defense needs a
Speaker 1: shot in the arm. We need someone to come in
Speaker 1: here with that energy, youthful energy to get these guys
Speaker 1: up for it. And dan Quinn may be a master
Speaker 1: at hitting guys in position to do what they do best.
Speaker 1: But what if you inherit a bunch of guys are
Speaker 1: that twenty five percent of them just can't play? All right?
Speaker 1: So let's just come on. I just like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be the Debbie downer in this whole conversation,
Speaker 1: but I just believe. I just believe that right now,
Speaker 1: if you're talking about a Jason Simmons, a guy that
Speaker 1: right now is a secondary coach, the guy that is
Speaker 1: a name that is rising aunch amongst future defensive coordinators.
Speaker 1: You have guys like Rahey Morris that's out there. And
Speaker 1: also on staff, you have George Edwards, a guy that
Speaker 1: is known that has that same kind of pedigree that
Speaker 1: you're flying guys in for. And let's just throw a
Speaker 1: wild card name out here. Guy by the name was
Speaker 1: Scott McCurley. He's your linebacker coach. He's a guy that
Speaker 1: comes from the Don Caper's defensive school of thought. He
Speaker 1: is a guy that Don Capers, if you don't know,
Speaker 1: aggressive three four caller, Like, there are people out there,
Speaker 1: there are names out there beside those household names that
Speaker 1: we just want to go to to just say that
Speaker 1: these guys are gonna be the next up. That's it.
Speaker 1: You want, you want a young guy, you want Kelly.
Speaker 1: Do you want the two coordinators to combine have Mike
Speaker 1: Nolan's age potentially? You know? And I do. And I
Speaker 1: think if you if you look at the Stefanskis, if
Speaker 1: you look at the Stefanskis of the world, the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles head coach, those young guys, they get an opportunity
Speaker 1: to inject their imprint on their team. At some point,
Speaker 1: we just can't go through this whole Oh you got
Speaker 1: a name, so you could come in and be a coach. No, man,
Speaker 1: let's let's try something different here. And maybe that try
Speaker 1: something different isn't the mantra for a lot of these coaches.
Speaker 1: But at some point, Scott McCurley has to get an
Speaker 1: opportunity to be a defensive coordination. He's put the he's
Speaker 1: put the work in. Hey, heck, that's interesting because just
Speaker 1: on my list, it's my list. But I Marvin Lewis
Speaker 1: was a guy that I'm thinking, man, you know, great resume,
Speaker 1: interviewed for the head coaching job a year ago. I
Speaker 1: think he's getting some head coaching interests though from Detroit.
Speaker 1: But I mean, he's obviously a really, really good coach,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned you mentioned George Edwards, and it's my
Speaker 1: understanding that Mike McCarthy has planned to talk to him
Speaker 1: as well, and he's on Kyle's list, and maybe he
Speaker 1: already did you know, maybe maybe they already had an
Speaker 1: in house discussion. So and he's you know, he comes
Speaker 1: from a Mike Zimmer program, and we obviously think a
Speaker 1: lot of Mike Zimmer. So that's that's another good name too. Now, heck,
Speaker 1: you bring up a good point. And I'm glad you
Speaker 1: kind of played Devil's Devil's advocate here because I like
Speaker 1: the dan Quinn signing. I mean, there's there's part of
Speaker 1: me that that thinks he could I mean, you said
Speaker 1: he's flying in he could jump out of the back
Speaker 1: of the plane like you're in call of duty war zone,
Speaker 1: dropping in really hot going straight into superstore. But there's
Speaker 1: another part of me that is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a tap the brakes sort of guy, because I think
Speaker 1: there's there's whenever you look at his time in Atlanta specifically,
Speaker 1: what were the Falcons known for. They were known for offense.
Speaker 1: They were known for Julio Jones and Matt Ryan and
Speaker 1: the running backs, and they had a lot of success
Speaker 1: on offense, but it wasn't their defense that was really
Speaker 1: the identity. And that's what kind of scares me a
Speaker 1: little bit. Is he inherited the Seattle defense, then he
Speaker 1: goes to Atlanta and those defenses weren't anything to write
Speaker 1: home about. Does that scare you at the same level
Speaker 1: that it scares me as because I think dan Quinn
Speaker 1: would be a great hire, but there is still kind
Speaker 1: of that that uncertainty that we might have had about
Speaker 1: let's say, Mike Nolan a year ago. I'm right there,
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm saying. If you have Xavier was
Speaker 1: as a far cry from Earl Thomas. So it's all
Speaker 1: good when you get players like that. But the evaluation
Speaker 1: for dan Quinn, if he is the defensive coordinator, is
Speaker 1: going to start immediately. And not only that he's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a blood letting on some of these
Speaker 1: positions because he's gonna recognize that this guy just can't
Speaker 1: get it done. Don't matter if the two gap, one gap,
Speaker 1: couple of four, couple of three can't get it done.
Speaker 1: So that's that's that's where my for me, Like I said,
Speaker 1: I just want a defensive coordinator that can get these
Speaker 1: guys attention, get the personnel that he needs to be successful,
Speaker 1: because right now we just don't have it. That's that's it, man, Isaiah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I hear you heck, and I respect I
Speaker 1: respect your point of view. Um, Like I said, I
Speaker 1: can only speak to those two individuals that I've better. No. No,
Speaker 1: I just sounds like I'm just setting up just so
Speaker 1: like I really do everything, I do a great job.
Speaker 1: But I'm digesting everything that you're saying. Heck, and and
Speaker 1: everything that you're saying is exact reasons why I would
Speaker 1: go with August Bradley or a dan Quinn simply because
Speaker 1: I like, like I said, I personally experienced the energy.
Speaker 1: I personally experienced the confidence that they instilled into young players,
Speaker 1: how they build up guys from the ground up. And yes,
Speaker 1: he may have been hearing in some some talent, of course,
Speaker 1: but those guys didn't walk in just amazing. Not all
Speaker 1: those guys didn't just walking amazing. I saw some of
Speaker 1: those guys world from when they first walked in the
Speaker 1: door to the time that he built up their confidence. Right,
Speaker 1: he was the first one getting up. They're giving him
Speaker 1: a chess bump on the sideline in practice, right while
Speaker 1: the DJ's playing music at practice. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Building those guys confidence up, working on their communications game. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: both of those guys bring the energy. Gus Bradley has
Speaker 1: energy out the wazoo. I don't know where he gets
Speaker 1: it from, right, But both of those guys, like I said,
Speaker 1: I have seen it and I and I know what
Speaker 1: they do, and I know what they do with young secondaries, right,
Speaker 1: especially younger secondaries. But then they also see how they
Speaker 1: have fun just in practice and how they create this culture.
Speaker 1: We talked about the lack of culture that are that
Speaker 1: are that our entire organization has. Right now, both of
Speaker 1: those guys bring a culture. And then you talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, those guys's lack of lack of success on
Speaker 1: defense in Atlanta. Well, to my knowledge, Raheem Morris was
Speaker 1: calling the place last year in Atlanta, right, So it's
Speaker 1: kind of like it's kind of like us, you know,
Speaker 1: indicting you know, Coach McCarthy with with our offensive woes
Speaker 1: when there's really Kelling Moore calling the place right. So
Speaker 1: we have to look at that that you know, from
Speaker 1: from that, from that glass for a side of things
Speaker 1: as well. But you don't like coach McCarthy off the
Speaker 1: hook for what's going on either, No, no, not absolutely right, No, No,
Speaker 1: they head coach less stuff comes through or they don't
Speaker 1: allow things to come through. But they obviously in both situations,
Speaker 1: they weren't making the calls, right, they weren't making the calls.
Speaker 1: So that's all I'm saying, looking at it from from
Speaker 1: that standpoint. And Isaiah, you were there with him, correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Oh, nine, in Seattle, I wasn't there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well no, I came in two nineteen years a year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was I mean, that was before they were
Speaker 1: the legion of boom. Really absolutely, you know, that's when
Speaker 1: they those guys first came in. I mean, I hear
Speaker 1: you guys, Kyle and Heck, I mean, I you gotta
Speaker 1: have players, you have. I mean, it's a players league,
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. Um. But I do think
Speaker 1: I do think he's probably willing to adapt his scheme
Speaker 1: to what he has on the field, because you know,
Speaker 1: in Seattle they were kind of just a four three defense.
Speaker 1: They played it up pretty straight up because they had
Speaker 1: the talent too, you know, where they didn't have to
Speaker 1: do a lot of crazy. They did more of that
Speaker 1: in Atlanta because they didn't have Earl Thomas and Chancellor
Speaker 1: and Bruce arv and Michael Bennet and all the guys
Speaker 1: you mentioned. So I would imagine he'd be more adaptable.
Speaker 1: I just think from a resume standpoint, he's as good
Speaker 1: if anybody that's out there, you know, well, he's the
Speaker 1: one with super Bowl pedigree on those on the resumes.
Speaker 1: I mean you look at even Gus Edwards, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have super Bowl pedigree. He played, he was with the
Speaker 1: Bills for a little bit, then he was with the Vikings,
Speaker 1: he was with Washington before all of that never even
Speaker 1: got close or really even sniffed the super Bowl pedigree
Speaker 1: that Dan Quinn has brought to the table in terms
Speaker 1: of his resume. So, I mean there's there's positives and
Speaker 1: negatives for any candidate out there. You just got to
Speaker 1: figure out which one's out way which, And I think
Speaker 1: that's what the front office is doing right now. Now.
Speaker 1: Rob kind of clarify this for me. I know, last
Speaker 1: year Mike McCarthy had a ton of say as to
Speaker 1: who his staff was going to be it was a
Speaker 1: McCarthy made staff. Is it the same this year or
Speaker 1: is there going to be a little bit more input
Speaker 1: maybe from the front office, a little more oversight after
Speaker 1: what happened a year ago. Um, I think it's yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's gonna be a probably collective
Speaker 1: decision here, but I think I think ultimately the Joneses
Speaker 1: are still going to let Mike McCarthy make a decision
Speaker 1: on ultimately who he thinks the best candidates for his staff.
Speaker 1: I really, I really believe that. I think, Um, why
Speaker 1: do you guys laugh? What do go? Are you guys
Speaker 1: saying that that Nolan was too much of a like
Speaker 1: a buddy hire? Is that? I'm all I have is
Speaker 1: dig my tail in my head right now. It is
Speaker 1: not so fast, my friend. That's that's that's lead Corso.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't. I don't think that they're gonna
Speaker 1: give him the full full control like they did this
Speaker 1: past officeason. I think they really wanted to respect him
Speaker 1: as a veteran, you know, established of you know coach
Speaker 1: in this league, head coach and you know, super Bowl
Speaker 1: winning coach. I think that they wanted to give him
Speaker 1: that right Hey, let's you know where did joneses. We're
Speaker 1: gonna step back and let you do you. There, we
Speaker 1: don't tip we do this, but we're gonna let you
Speaker 1: do you. And now they're like, oh, whold on that. No,
Speaker 1: listen now, now they're not gonna pull a full Houston
Speaker 1: Texans in and just disregard him like they disregarded Deshaun Way.
Speaker 1: That's what that's. Yeah, they're not gonna They're not gonna
Speaker 1: do that. But I think that they are gonna go
Speaker 1: with the people with the guys that they feel are
Speaker 1: the strongest candidates and then come to coach and be like, so,
Speaker 1: what do you think The reason why I hesitated there
Speaker 1: is because I think over the weekend because the reports
Speaker 1: were Jason Simmons and Joe widd who had been with
Speaker 1: him in Green Bay. It's like, Mike, don't just hire
Speaker 1: who you worked with in the past. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: number one, that's not really accurate. I mean, look, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it works out great. Joe Philbin was a trusted
Speaker 1: assistant for Mike McCarthy and Green Bay for years, and
Speaker 1: he was probably the best assistant coach they had last
Speaker 1: year in terms of the job he did arguably and
Speaker 1: he is. And look he he came in here. Let
Speaker 1: Kellen Moore continue to call plays he hired eyes outside
Speaker 1: of his tree on other positions on the staff, John
Speaker 1: fossil Um, others. So you know, I cap the brakes
Speaker 1: on that. That's all he does, is I guess what
Speaker 1: I'm saying here. Yeah, I wanted to cast the water
Speaker 1: net I want, That's what I want. I wanted to
Speaker 1: look at some guys. There are some up and coming
Speaker 1: coaches that can be looked at as well, but we
Speaker 1: don't know the whole involvement on whether the Jones, you know,
Speaker 1: the Jones family is vetoing every guy that he brings
Speaker 1: in and if he has to get a larger list
Speaker 1: of guys, so whichever it is, at this point, we
Speaker 1: have to get a defensive coordinator in here pretty fast
Speaker 1: because this is the musical chair time in the NFL anyway,
Speaker 1: everybody's interviewing for positions, head coaching jobs, etc. And you know,
Speaker 1: just going back to this, you know the coaching tree.
Speaker 1: You know, I look at the coaching tree of like
Speaker 1: Bill Parcels and all the guys that Sean pay and Belichick,
Speaker 1: all of the coaches that and I think everyone's trying
Speaker 1: to emulate or get in the line of certain coaching trees,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always work. It doesn't always work. And
Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys, it's going, we
Speaker 1: want to play an aggressive style of defense. We have
Speaker 1: the personal the guys up front, our edge rushers, gossip
Speaker 1: to come after them. We can't sit back and put
Speaker 1: our one technique in pass coverage, you know. We gotta
Speaker 1: get down with this thing and make it look and
Speaker 1: have something that's that looks something like a defense. Last
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty, just throw all of that away. It
Speaker 1: didn't matter the last four games, the turnovers, none of
Speaker 1: it because it was garbage, the yardage, the rushing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it turned into a track meet. It was a track meet. Okay,
Speaker 1: So your buddies aren't helping you. And if you want
Speaker 1: to save your job, if you if this is what
Speaker 1: you're in it for, to win a championship, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to get somebody in here that that can coach
Speaker 1: this up. Because it ain't happen. I'll tell you right now,
Speaker 1: say hey, I can tell you right now. If I
Speaker 1: had Gilbert Brown as my one technique, I'm dropping him
Speaker 1: off in coverage. I'm just saying I'm dropping him off
Speaker 1: and coverage all three hundred eighty pounds, not Gilbert Brown. Please,
Speaker 1: anybody interested in Chris Rashard here? And I was just
Speaker 1: thinking that, I was just thinking that Chard. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: took a year off, obviously, I think you throw his
Speaker 1: name in the hat. But again he comes from that,
Speaker 1: from that Seahawks tree, right, I mean that'll be three
Speaker 1: three guys from the Seahawks from Pete Carroll's lineage now,
Speaker 1: so it's just Pete Carroll. It's just pretty much Pete
Speaker 1: Carroll's go get under the new Bellichick. Is that what
Speaker 1: it is? No? Shoot, I know, I know, trust me,
Speaker 1: I don't know anymore man after last week. But no,
Speaker 1: I mean you have to look at everybody into Heck's point.
Speaker 1: If I if you're if you're mister Jones, Heck and
Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you want a young buck,
Speaker 1: you want to spring chicken that that nobody really knows
Speaker 1: about it up and coming right and s. But if
Speaker 1: you're miss, if you're mister Jones right now, can you
Speaker 1: afford to do that swinging? Miss can't do that? Where
Speaker 1: I am too, You're missing but but but you can't
Speaker 1: miss this time. You can't. Can't. You can't miss on
Speaker 1: a guy that's unproven. It's one thing to miss on
Speaker 1: somebody who who's I'm just saying. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: disagreeing with you, but I'm saying it's one thing to
Speaker 1: swing and miss on somebody who's proven in this league
Speaker 1: versus somebody swinging to missing on somebody that you were
Speaker 1: hopeful for has two different swinging misses too, totally, because
Speaker 1: you could just you could justify one. This guy's been
Speaker 1: a head coach, this guy's won a super Bowl. You
Speaker 1: just that's the reason why you brought this head coach in, right,
Speaker 1: Or you can go with the Hey, this guy was
Speaker 1: assistant to such and such assistant and he's up and coming,
Speaker 1: he has great energy, guys who are talking positive about
Speaker 1: him in the organization. Let's go with him. You can't there,
Speaker 1: that's not enough to lean on. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that those guys aren't worthy. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: if you're mister Jones, you can't afford to swing and
Speaker 1: miss on somebody who's unproven. Now, one difference would be
Speaker 1: one difference would be hecked to your point. To your
Speaker 1: point is Joe Witt and Jason Simmons. Mike McCarthy has
Speaker 1: seen him work. He knows them very very well. So
Speaker 1: there's a difference there than maybe hiring a guy who's,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty years old, who you never worked with
Speaker 1: but becomes highly recommended or whatever. How does things ever change?
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's ingenuity. You have to find a
Speaker 1: better way to do things. And Sean McVay, Sean McVay
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, he wasn't a household name, but he
Speaker 1: is now and someone took someone took an opportunity on him.
Speaker 1: And so when do we do that? Because I tell
Speaker 1: you what, I don't understand these guys that feel their
Speaker 1: way to success like Dan you know, the Dan Quinns
Speaker 1: of the world. I mean, you you just got fired, bro,
Speaker 1: your your your defense was last in passing. And I
Speaker 1: know we put this on Rohey Morris, but he's at
Speaker 1: the helm of all of that. So you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be the defensive guru, right. So I'm just saying, sometimes
Speaker 1: times you have to look outside of the box and
Speaker 1: maybe that's the thing that changes or changes the trajectory
Speaker 1: of your success as an organization. That's all I agree.
Speaker 1: And Sean McVay is an extreme case. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you can compare any young head coach or any
Speaker 1: young young coach period to a Sean mcvagh because that
Speaker 1: was a special case, something that worked out perfectly. And
Speaker 1: right now I'm past the point, and maybe this is
Speaker 1: because of Kellen Moore, but I'm past the point being
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys and having one of your three most
Speaker 1: important positions on your coaching staff learning on the job.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm scared of. I'm scared of having another
Speaker 1: learning on the job moment and I get wanting to
Speaker 1: change things up. I really do, and maybe you have to,
Speaker 1: and that's where maybe your position coaches and your special
Speaker 1: analysts and things like that come in. But I think
Speaker 1: if you're gonna swing at a defensive coordinator, you need
Speaker 1: to swing at someone with pedigree. Maybe that's Dan Quinn,
Speaker 1: maybe that's somebody else on my way. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: the game about more points than any coach kid sixty
Speaker 1: years Mike, no one talking about this. Petty didn't even
Speaker 1: have a beat in your hand. Mike Nolan didn't have
Speaker 1: a good resume, or nearly as good of a resume
Speaker 1: as a Dan Quinn did not nearly. Hey, heck, what
Speaker 1: would you heck? But what would be your sentiments if
Speaker 1: they just said, Sean Lee is a defensive coordinator in Dallas. Cowboy,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's not what I'm talking about. Isaiah, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm doing. Only thirty four. You know
Speaker 1: who he is. You know, you know smarty is you
Speaker 1: know this guy's best you that's not Oh I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Heck was so flustered, and that's when
Speaker 1: I did. That's what I have the best spot on
Speaker 1: this show. All Right, we're gonna step aside. When we
Speaker 1: come back. We're gonna talk about one of the best
Speaker 1: mic drops in the NFL's history. And then also we
Speaker 1: may give you a cheat sheet on free agent, so
Speaker 1: we might talk about the coaching staff a little bit more.
Speaker 1: We'll figure it out when we come back here on
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Speaker 1: here for the final segment of Talking Cowboys, presented by
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys. Welcome back in final segment here hecma
Speaker 1: rocking those bows Quiet Comfort earbuds as all as always,
Speaker 1: But I wanted to kind of go into a moment
Speaker 1: that happened yesterday in the NFL playoffs and Jimmy Graham,
Speaker 1: tight end for the Chicago Bears. Excuse me, and what
Speaker 1: could be his final season and maybe his final catch
Speaker 1: of his career, had one of the best mic drops
Speaker 1: I might have ever seen in the NFL. He goes
Speaker 1: over the Middle's the final play of the game. Chicago's
Speaker 1: already losing and New Orleans has wrapped this thing up,
Speaker 1: and he goes over the middle and he makes a
Speaker 1: fantastic one handed grab. I believe we have the clip
Speaker 1: here of Jimmy Graham going across the middle and going
Speaker 1: into it. But does it have audio? Chris, does this
Speaker 1: have audio on it? No clip? Okay, yeah, let's go
Speaker 1: and roll that clip. It's rolling right now. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: So whatever, you look at this. He makes the grab
Speaker 1: one handed. Touchdown times expired. He continues and just runs
Speaker 1: straight into the tunnel, just runs straight into it, kind
Speaker 1: of I mean, Randy mosses it. I mean, goes straight
Speaker 1: up the tunnel. Just a fun way to say goodbye
Speaker 1: to Jimmy Graham, who of course had his career in
Speaker 1: New Orleans. But Isaiah, as somebody who has played in
Speaker 1: the league and had some mic drop moments yourself, is
Speaker 1: this the best mic drop you've ever seen. It's pretty
Speaker 1: dug on good Man. That's a heck of a catch obviously,
Speaker 1: is it, you know, garbage time, But if that is
Speaker 1: his career inning catchman, he hats off to you. I
Speaker 1: know he had a bumpy, a bumpy roll in terms
Speaker 1: of his career, but I think he's pretty dug and
Speaker 1: well respected around here. So um, if that's how you
Speaker 1: send it off man and shoot, put that on replay,
Speaker 1: put in a dog on case and just rolled it over.
Speaker 1: He should have kept the ball though, he should have
Speaker 1: got Yeah. I don't know why he dropped the ball. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's probably guess that was a mic.
Speaker 1: You know, that was a mic drop, but that was
Speaker 1: the drop of the mic. Yeah, uh, Rob, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know you've gotten the cover Jimmy Graham before and
Speaker 1: kind of his career. I mean, is he one of
Speaker 1: the better tight ends in NFL history? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I've watched a lot of Saints football just because
Speaker 1: that's how I grew up pulling for through family and stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's an amazing tight end. He's he's one
Speaker 1: of the tight ends that kind of changed the game
Speaker 1: in a way along with kind of kept it going
Speaker 1: in terms of what you know, Tony Gonzalez and Jason
Speaker 1: Winn did a different type of tight end. Gronkowski best
Speaker 1: mic drop I've ever seen in any sport when Damian
Speaker 1: I mean a little hit that three pointer to beet
Speaker 1: wave goodbye, Wave goodbye. That's the best mic drop. I
Speaker 1: don't think he can ever be topped by anybody. Wow. Man,
Speaker 1: I think I've loved Jimmy Graham since the you and
Speaker 1: since he was his Miami days, and Miami has a
Speaker 1: thing for turning those tight ends into superstars. And man,
Speaker 1: that's just another one of those Jimmy Graham moments had.
Speaker 1: He's had a fabulous career. I really hope that this
Speaker 1: isn't the last that we see of Jimmy Graham because
Speaker 1: he showed this year that he had something left in
Speaker 1: the tank, and so just Chicago and Traubisky and there's
Speaker 1: just the quarterback struggles that they had. This may not
Speaker 1: have been the best year for him, He's still had
Speaker 1: fifty receptions. Like you said, I mean, he was somebody
Speaker 1: who had a legitimate impact for Chicago. Eight touchdowns. I
Speaker 1: mean that's the most Yeah, Yeah, that's like one. Now,
Speaker 1: Rob's got me thinking I'm trying to think of other
Speaker 1: mic drops. One of which was against my favorite team
Speaker 1: in the MLB and Major League Baseball was a Jose
Speaker 1: Bautista bat flip and the a l DS back in
Speaker 1: what was that twenty fourteen twenty fifteen U and Jose
Speaker 1: Bautista had the bat flip where he threw it up
Speaker 1: in the air. Um, he got punched in the face
Speaker 1: for that too, didn't he He He did get punched in
Speaker 1: the face for that, Thank goodness. Yeah, Rugi o'dor came
Speaker 1: up and stepped up. But I'm trying to think of
Speaker 1: what are some Cowboys mic drops if we had any. Um,
Speaker 1: I think Brad Sham had a really good one with
Speaker 1: the move over Sweetness make place for Emmett call. That
Speaker 1: was kind of a broadcaster mic drop, even though he
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily retire after that. But rocket Ishmael against so
Speaker 1: Uh then the Washington football team in overtime, Troy Egman
Speaker 1: rocket rocket Ishmael. That maybe one. That's a long time ago.
Speaker 1: That's a good one though. No, I like that. That's
Speaker 1: a good one. Isaiah, you have a favorite anywhere in there.
Speaker 1: Could the Cowboys could maybe not be not like just
Speaker 1: like spire off walk off. I mean, obviously I think
Speaker 1: to my times of Seattle and watching watching King Greek
Speaker 1: Junior and the Kingdom was it in the playoffs and
Speaker 1: he hit that dog on inside the marker. You know
Speaker 1: he was he was, he was rolling. So that was
Speaker 1: that for me? Is this big moment. But other than that,
Speaker 1: man nothing crazy. I mean yeah, without Michael Jordan, I
Speaker 1: think Michael Jordan has the best walk off the gatorade
Speaker 1: hand to come on, that's just like you know, dog
Speaker 1: getting no better than that. So the push off on
Speaker 1: Russell that what he escort. Yeah, but then but then
Speaker 1: he went back to then he came back again, which
Speaker 1: that never happened. The Wizard. The Wizard has never happened. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about, Rob, I've never said any
Speaker 1: of that. I'm trying to think Cowboys, Mic drops, and
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't think of any on top of
Speaker 1: my head. Might be a good might be a good
Speaker 1: list of put together though? Yeah, maybe we maybe we
Speaker 1: need to look into that. Now. Well we will get
Speaker 1: into free agents and things like that. We kind of
Speaker 1: ran out of time in this show, so I think
Speaker 1: we might save that for next week to kind of
Speaker 1: talk about which free agents are most likely, uh to
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Oh, Douglass just sent me a
Speaker 1: mic drop on my phone, but I'm unable to look
Speaker 1: at it at the moment. But I mean, we're gonna
Speaker 1: look into coaching stabs and free agents along the way
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to the Cowboys off season. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're plenty of guys, especially in that secondary, that could
Speaker 1: potentially go elsewhere here over the next couple of months.
Speaker 1: And I mean there's a lot of overturn that's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: especially whenever a new defensive coordinator comes in here. But
Speaker 1: I want to each of you guys to give me
Speaker 1: a name. If you had to say, one free agent
Speaker 1: on the defensive side of the football that's staying this year,
Speaker 1: who would it be? Who would be your number one
Speaker 1: guy to stay? And we'll start with you, Rob oh Man,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pull up my list. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: need to see money too. There's a couple of them. Heck,
Speaker 1: save me, Jordan Lewis, Why there you go? Why Why
Speaker 1: is that dack Zack? For sure, we DA's not on
Speaker 1: the defensive side of the football. But Chris just yelled
Speaker 1: it in my ear sou But Jordan Lewis. I think
Speaker 1: Jordan Lewis, you know, when you talk about what he
Speaker 1: can do from the slot position, especially if you give
Speaker 1: get better safeties, I think he's service. The boy's a
Speaker 1: tough guy for his size. I mean, he had the
Speaker 1: penalty that made him look like a knucklehead, but he
Speaker 1: can make it back from that. Other than that, man,
Speaker 1: I don't see anyone else that I would want to
Speaker 1: bring back, just skill set wise and what he has
Speaker 1: in this wheelhouse. That's why I say Jordan Lewis. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. You ready down there? Yeah? Who
Speaker 1: I would want? I would say I'd bring Alton Smith
Speaker 1: back if I could. We'll see what the what the
Speaker 1: cap situation is and what he might get on the
Speaker 1: open market. I don't know if it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: Robert quintype situation last year, but I think I think
Speaker 1: in terms of a rotation, he can certainly help you.
Speaker 1: But I like the George Lewis one c J Goodwe
Speaker 1: does he count because I am definitely I am you know,
Speaker 1: he played like eight snaps on defense this year, but
Speaker 1: I am definitely wanting to bring him back to captain
Speaker 1: my special teams. Yeah, I would like that as well. Isaiah,
Speaker 1: y'all know I'm a Joe Thomas fan. Yeah, Joe Thomas fan.
Speaker 1: I think he's assistant man. Yeah, he's I think he's
Speaker 1: just gonna say. I like guys that you can rely on.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you know, he's gonna be there,
Speaker 1: He's gonna be where here supposed to be. He's gonna
Speaker 1: play hard, he's gonna play fast, he's gonna hit you.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's something that you could that you
Speaker 1: can lay your hat on at that position that we
Speaker 1: may not have been able to do most of this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a high ceiling, but his flour is
Speaker 1: a little bit higher than I think maybe even Jalen
Speaker 1: Smith's is. Whenever it comes to that linebacking position and uh,
Speaker 1: talk about you guys, Mike. You know you guys know
Speaker 1: how I feel about about that position. No, we don't
Speaker 1: tell us some more. Do I need to say it
Speaker 1: to hear this? We're saying it with my chest. Yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: h we'll talk about it next week. We'll figure it
Speaker 1: out next week. But that's gonna do it here for us.
Speaker 1: On Talking Cowboys, presented by Geico so glad you've been
Speaker 1: with us here over the last hour. Be sure to
Speaker 1: join us next Monday, same times, same place, eleven thirty
Speaker 1: here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. In the various streaming websites,
Speaker 1: but for Chris Bemback in studio, for heck Ma Harrison,
Speaker 1: Rob Phillips, and Isaiah stand Back, I'm Kyle Yeoman saying
Speaker 1: so long, thanks for joining us here and talking cowboys.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.