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Speaker 1: Hello. I'm Annie and I'm Bridget, and this is stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you. And today is May four, otherwise

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Speaker 1: known as Star Wars Day. May the fourth be with

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Speaker 1: your bridgets. May the fourth be with you as well?

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Speaker 1: And oh, thank you, thank you. Um. As you might

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Speaker 1: have guessed from other past episodes, especially action figures, I'm

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Speaker 1: a bit of a nerd, a dweeb, a dork, a geek.

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Speaker 1: I'm a very big Star Wars fan. You seem to

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Speaker 1: like all things science fiction and fantasy. Yes, this is true.

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Speaker 1: I I even like I write science fiction, which is

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Speaker 1: I hear very rare for like joy writing. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because I never intend to publish anything. Um. Luke Skywalker

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Speaker 1: was my first fictional crush. Four year old Annie looking

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Speaker 1: at the screen and I gave him a kiss on

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Speaker 1: the cheek. Why were you so drawn test Star Wars

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Speaker 1: so early? It's funny because I actually didn't like Star

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Speaker 1: Wars at first, because I didn't buy The Force as

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Speaker 1: a young kid. I was like no, but um, everyone

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Speaker 1: in my family liked it, and I did have a

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Speaker 1: crush on Luke Skywalker, even if I had my problems

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Speaker 1: with the Force. I think it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: a thing where I kept getting watched in my house,

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Speaker 1: and slowly but surely I got over my my issues

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Speaker 1: and fell in love with all the characters. And for

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Speaker 1: a while I was watching all of the original trilogy

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Speaker 1: every at least once a year, and I wore out

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Speaker 1: the tape. When you watch it, there's like parts are

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Speaker 1: because you watched it so many times, you'd you wound it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and specifically certain parts that I would like. This one

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Speaker 1: section I would watch her. What section was that? It

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Speaker 1: was the end of a new hope, the big battle

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Speaker 1: with the Death Star. Yeah, yeah, liked a good space battle.

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Speaker 1: Like so here in the studio y'all can't see. But

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Speaker 1: in classic antie style, she came dressed too impressed. You

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Speaker 1: do this only I get to see it, and it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: She's wearing her Star Wars shirt the Empire Strikes Back

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Speaker 1: and space leggings. Yeah, I've got like the galaxies on them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cooler than it sounds. Everybody. The Empire Strikes Back

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Speaker 1: is my favorite. It is not the most feminist Star

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Speaker 1: Wars movie, because we are talking about feminism and Star

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Speaker 1: Wars today. Yes. When Virget she sent me an email

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Speaker 1: was like, can you come up with an angle on

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Speaker 1: Star Wars and feminism and had like two seconds later

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Speaker 1: a million that is well, this is actually probably a

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Speaker 1: good time to confess something, which is I just from

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Speaker 1: knowing you personally, I know you love our Wars, but

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Speaker 1: I I've never seen Star Wars. I haven't seen any

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Speaker 1: of them a single. Actually, when I was that's not true.

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Speaker 1: I was on a plane to l a h two

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Speaker 1: weeks ago and the movie they were playing with Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't have headphones, so I watched part of it.

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Speaker 1: I was very confused. It seems like a good movie.

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Speaker 1: I wish I had gotten the headphone. Which one was it?

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Speaker 1: Do you know? It was the Oh god, it was

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Speaker 1: the one I hate. I almost said something that I

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Speaker 1: feel like people would like try to get fired. I

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Speaker 1: said it, uh, the one with the girl, the most

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Speaker 1: recent one. Well, the most of the recent ones have ladies,

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Speaker 1: and the one with Ray she's in more than one. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know. It's okay, we we forgive you Bridge. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is why I think this episode is good because

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Speaker 1: in my experience, people either love Star Wars and they

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Speaker 1: have they had a encyclopedic knowledge of it, and what

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Speaker 1: it means, and it means it means something very personal

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Speaker 1: to them, or they have a super cash relationship with it,

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Speaker 1: or haven't seen it. So this isn't this is maybe

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Speaker 1: representing that balance a little bit, the balance of the force.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I get that reference. Yes, And speaking

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Speaker 1: of m I've task Bridget with making sure that I

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Speaker 1: don't go too deep into Star Wars nurdery where no

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Speaker 1: one can understand what I'm saying. I'm sure it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fine. I hope, so, I hope so um. And

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Speaker 1: I used to be a much bigger not bigger, but

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Speaker 1: I was maybe a more obsessed fan I was. I.

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Speaker 1: I would read all the books, and I had the comics,

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Speaker 1: and I had the video games. And now I kind

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Speaker 1: of just see the movies and enjoy them. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not the same level of encyclopedic knowledge that I once was,

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Speaker 1: but for a period, well, I almost feel a little

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Speaker 1: bit jealous of people who are into Star Wars because

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Speaker 1: there's there's so much lore, there's so many ways to

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Speaker 1: be into it, and so, you know, if you like

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Speaker 1: other kinds of films, you know, let's say that you

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Speaker 1: really like Richard Link later films or something. There's not

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Speaker 1: like you can't get action figures and rebelia and do

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Speaker 1: fan fiction. There's there's so much to the universe, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and that being being fans of other kinds of film

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Speaker 1: does not lend itself easily to that kind of being

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Speaker 1: able to dive in into this like very vast, rich universe.

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Speaker 1: And that's something I've always really liked about Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: even though I'm not, you know, a big fan myself,

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Speaker 1: that it allows for that kind of expansion of of

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Speaker 1: of fandom. That you can be a fan and express

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Speaker 1: that through writing and there's a community for that, express

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Speaker 1: that through cosplay. There's a community for that. Like whatever

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Speaker 1: way that that interest manifests for you, there's a community

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Speaker 1: out there doing that, which is quite interesting, and not

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Speaker 1: a lot of things are like that. Yeah, it's cool

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Speaker 1: that you can enter kind of at various points and

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Speaker 1: are from various angles, like say you like costuming and

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Speaker 1: then you get into Star Wars that way. That it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that there's just all of these sorts of

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Speaker 1: fans co mingling. Well, that's actually the if I had

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Speaker 1: to say, the way that I appreciate Star Wars it's

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Speaker 1: through Carrie Fisher because aug but I know her more

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Speaker 1: as like a writer and humorist, and so I'm a

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Speaker 1: huge fan of saucy sassy ladies, and she is a saucy,

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Speaker 1: sassy lady. And so even though my connection with her

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Speaker 1: is is not through that particular film series, I I

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Speaker 1: definitely think like that, like that is my thread for

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Speaker 1: appreciating the genre. You know, she was in Scream three,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't. I'm so glad. I know you can't get

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Speaker 1: me out of Carrie Fisher. What was she in? Excellent?

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Speaker 1: I was thinking that, like back to our horror movie

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Speaker 1: episode Carrie Fisher, it all comes why don't we tell

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Speaker 1: you should have talked about her? Well, we had other

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Speaker 1: things to discuss. Well, well, well we have to do

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Speaker 1: a whole episode on her. Yes, and one day we

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Speaker 1: need to do an episode on something that you're a

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Speaker 1: total fan for. There's excellent, excellent. But today we're looking

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Speaker 1: at Star Wars and feminism in Star Wars because there

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Speaker 1: are so many angles to look at it. But I

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Speaker 1: thought we'd do kind of an overview of where we

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Speaker 1: are because right now we're in prime Star Wars time,

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Speaker 1: Like there's a new movie coming out every year, and

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Speaker 1: it is changing a lot as the audience kind of

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Speaker 1: expects that and demands that, and as times have changed.

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Speaker 1: So there is a lot to talk about. Um. If

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Speaker 1: we look at when Star Wars first came out, it

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Speaker 1: had what I think is typically has been the classic

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Speaker 1: trio of two white men and one white lady. So

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Speaker 1: you have Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Princess Leiah, who was

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Speaker 1: of course a princess, but I would say she was

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Speaker 1: still a pretty strong character. She was a rebel, she

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Speaker 1: was a fighter. Later she was a general um and

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Speaker 1: there is that element of damsel and distress, the whole

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Speaker 1: help me will be one Kenobi or my only hope,

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Speaker 1: the whole slave bikini thing and return of the Jedi,

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Speaker 1: which was totally to make her more palatable to the

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Speaker 1: male gaze. Yeah, and she like kills Jab of the

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Speaker 1: Hut with her change, and she kind of became a

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Speaker 1: bit of a resistance icon for a little bit she did.

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Speaker 1: That is like a people use that as a kind

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Speaker 1: of feminist expression of rage. You know, killing, killing your

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Speaker 1: captor with the chains that he that he locked you

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Speaker 1: up with so much is rad Like that's rad. It

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Speaker 1: is it is um yeah, and she was a feminist

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Speaker 1: icon for the time, and I would say pretty progressive

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Speaker 1: for the time, which was around nineteen and because of

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Speaker 1: that she did ruffle some some feathers. Review of a

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Speaker 1: New Hope, which was the first one, the fourth one

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Speaker 1: it gets very confusing, but the first one to come out.

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Speaker 1: UM critic John Simon wrote that Princess Leah was played

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Speaker 1: wretchedly by Carrie Fisher, who is not even appealing as

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Speaker 1: Princess Leiah organa parentheses inorganic l what this is the

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Speaker 1: review like a critical This is critic. I want to

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Speaker 1: want aut angry letter like thirty years later bridget Justice. Hey,

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Speaker 1: revenge is a dish best serve cold. This is true,

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Speaker 1: not from Star Wars, from Star Trek Boom. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: you nailed it. Bridge. Yes, I have like very loose

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Speaker 1: ideas for a Revenge Bakery that I want to open. Um,

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Speaker 1: so maybe we'll he'll be one of our first customers. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we definitely need a table and come. Return to the

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Speaker 1: concept of Revenge Bakery. Yes, I would love to talk

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Speaker 1: about that more in depth. But um, speaking of Carrie

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Speaker 1: Fisher and I love for Carrie Fisher. Um. One of

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Speaker 1: my favorite facts about her that a friend, a friend

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Speaker 1: of her, screenwriter Heather Robinson, had to fight off a

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Speaker 1: predatory Hollywood producer, and Fisher delivered to him by hand

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Speaker 1: a tiffany box containing a cow tongue inside, with the

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Speaker 1: added touch of a threatening note just to really get

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Speaker 1: the mess at home. And according to Robinson, the note read,

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Speaker 1: if you ever touch my darling, Heather or any other

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Speaker 1: woman again, the next delivery will be something of yours

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Speaker 1: and a much smaller box. Damn right, this is why

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Speaker 1: I love her, Like even if that's first of all,

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Speaker 1: that works on two levels. One, if that story is true, Wow,

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Speaker 1: to that story is not true, Just imagine the lore

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Speaker 1: that has to surround you for that to be the

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Speaker 1: rumor about you and for it to be believable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fact that we don't know if it's true or not,

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Speaker 1: just show us what a badass she was. Yes, were like,

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Speaker 1: I can see her doing that. I totally can see

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Speaker 1: her doing that. Um. Both the original trilogy and the

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Speaker 1: prequels had a strong female character, but once that straddled

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Speaker 1: being badass with being that demsel damsel that needs rescuing,

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Speaker 1: empowered and objectified at the same time, and in a

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Speaker 1: way it reflects where we were with women as a

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Speaker 1: society and feminism at the time. The prequel's main character,

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Speaker 1: pad May, got the unfortunate ranking of four out of

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Speaker 1: five worst Hollywood attempts at feminism, as judged by cracked

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Speaker 1: dot com. The unfortunate thing with her storyline is she

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Speaker 1: was strong and then she just kind of became a

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Speaker 1: whole plot point of she had to die, and she

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Speaker 1: just died of broken heart, like she existed only to

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Speaker 1: further this story of the male character. See that just

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Speaker 1: reminds me of so many times in movies that are

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Speaker 1: trying to be progressive and so they add a female

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Speaker 1: character or a gay character, but that character is not

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Speaker 1: allowed to sort of exists where the other characters exist.

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Speaker 1: They have to die a tragic death or they have

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Speaker 1: to you know, I love someone who doesn't love them

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Speaker 1: back and get their heartbroken and kill themselves, right Like,

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Speaker 1: they're not allowed to exist as these characters who want

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Speaker 1: them to be. They have to be sort of tragic

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Speaker 1: or something bad has to happen. That does kind of

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Speaker 1: strike me as a weak attempt at feminism. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was unfortunate, and it's one of those things where it's

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Speaker 1: like the Titanic. We all knew she was going to die.

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Speaker 1: She that's because it was prequels, right, Oh, so you

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Speaker 1: already know it just wasn't handled in the best way. Perhaps, man,

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Speaker 1: I I would love to get a look at that

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Speaker 1: writer's room, because I I would be willing to bet

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Speaker 1: that that kind of stab at making a feminist, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that like that's why it was kind of narrow

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Speaker 1: or fell flat, and like why she didn't strike you

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Speaker 1: as an authentic, you know, multidimensional character. Yeah, there's also

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Speaker 1: a really embarrassing scene from the second one attack of

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Speaker 1: the clothes or she's like getting a pit and she's fighting.

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Speaker 1: She's tough, but she's wearing this like it's almost a

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Speaker 1: crop top, but just got it back to it. But

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Speaker 1: then the b like that she's fighting, slashes the back

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Speaker 1: of it, so it becomes a full crop top. And

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Speaker 1: it's like that you would wear if you were in

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Speaker 1: hand to hand combat. You're like, I need my crop top.

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Speaker 1: That's what I wear for combat, My my tactical crop top. Right,

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Speaker 1: who among us doesn't have a tactical crop top? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm basically wearing one right now, your battle in any minute,

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Speaker 1: So I gotta I got a street fight planned later. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were. We were going to meet in the parking

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Speaker 1: lot and fight some other podcast crew. Yeah, we have

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Speaker 1: beef with another podcast. We'll drop some hints to who

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Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, yeah, but we're meeting them in the

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Speaker 1: parking lot later. Anyway, back to Star Wars himnism. If

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Speaker 1: we skip ahead to the first of the Star Wars

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Speaker 1: sequel trilogy, the Force Awakens and the announcement that one

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Speaker 1: of the main characters was ray a lady, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: a disturbance in the Force, I remember the inevitable. Oh no, oh,

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Speaker 1: the dark side a k a. Feminism has ruined Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: Um it's two PC comments, which is kind of funny

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Speaker 1: because she was still the only female in the cast.

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Speaker 1: Like women are taking over, and by taking over, I

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Speaker 1: mean they've added like one, right, I mean Princess Leo

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Speaker 1: was one. I mean, I don't know the ratio, isn't

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Speaker 1: that doesn't even throw off the ratio that you mentioned before, right,

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Speaker 1: She's just she was like the main one. I guess

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Speaker 1: Princess Leia was kind of if you had to list

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Speaker 1: them of importance in the in an order of importance,

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Speaker 1: she would be at the bottom, but Ray was at

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Speaker 1: the top. We think, I mean, this was all speculation.

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Speaker 1: We weren't sure, but yeah, I remember this pretty clearly. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the good thing about Ray is she she pretty

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Speaker 1: much ditched that damsel and distress things. She can handle herself,

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Speaker 1: she told Hans Solo. So um. But she's not that

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Speaker 1: one dimensional strong female character that annoys the hell out

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Speaker 1: of me either. Um. She protects b B eight, so

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Speaker 1: she's got that kind of like nurturing, protective side it.

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Speaker 1: She's goofy, she makes mistakes. She's a survivor, and the

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Speaker 1: fact that some people might doubt her abilities, possibly because

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Speaker 1: of her gender, is poked at throughout the movie. When

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Speaker 1: male character Finn rushes to her aid she's being attacked

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Speaker 1: earlier in the movie, he finds she's already taken care

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Speaker 1: of her would be assailants, and later when he takes

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Speaker 1: her hand as they're running away from their pursuers, she snaps,

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Speaker 1: I know how to run without you holding my hand.

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Speaker 1: So they're kind of always sort of bringing it up. Um.

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Speaker 1: And she's as a character, she's had to learn to

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Speaker 1: survive on her own alongside aliens, droids, men, women, all

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Speaker 1: of them struggling together. And she's not making a feminine

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Speaker 1: feminist statement or representing a movement. She's just doing what

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Speaker 1: she has to do. And that's the point. She's a

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Speaker 1: woman who's doing these things. But it's kind of secondary, right,

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Speaker 1: and so they don't make a big deal about the

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Speaker 1: fact that you know a woman is doing so, like

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Speaker 1: in in in films, I hate it when they beat

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Speaker 1: you over the head with the fact that this is

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Speaker 1: a one Like when it's supposed to be a quote

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Speaker 1: strong female character to the point where it's very aware

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Speaker 1: yet it's a strong female character. It's hard to explain,

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Speaker 1: but well, yeah, when it keeps strong attention to it,

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Speaker 1: it's like, so you're saying, because she's a woman, this

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Speaker 1: is astounding that she's able to do this right exactly

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Speaker 1: but exactly that that just always it almost makes me

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Speaker 1: cringe because I'm happy that this was just authentically. You know,

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Speaker 1: I am capable, and I have many you know, I

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Speaker 1: have many sides to myself. I can be goofy, and

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Speaker 1: I can make mistakes, and I can be you know, nurturing,

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Speaker 1: and I can be badass, and I can take care

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Speaker 1: of the bad guy. And I can do all those

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Speaker 1: things because women can do all those things. And it's

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Speaker 1: not a big deal because within our you know, must

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Speaker 1: fascinate humans, must flag everyone else. I know, we've really,

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Speaker 1: we've really stumbled upon something here. Um. Yeah, And she

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Speaker 1: basically she was a character. I feel like if you

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Speaker 1: can just write a good character, then they should. It

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Speaker 1: should work for male or female. That's my opinion. Her

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Speaker 1: look was important too, because there was no slave bikinis here.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I believe Carrie Fisher told the actress who

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Speaker 1: plays her, plays right, Daisy Ridley, keep fighting against that

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Speaker 1: slave bikini. Um. She wore a very luke skywark skywalkery tunic. Uh.

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Speaker 1: No discernible makeup though I'm sure it was that. No

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Speaker 1: makeup makeup look Um, hair tightly pulled back, almost like

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Speaker 1: her gender was secondary. And that's the point. It didn't

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Speaker 1: define her. It was her. In the words of the

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Speaker 1: actress who played her, she doesn't have to be one

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Speaker 1: thing to embody a woman in a film. It just

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Speaker 1: so happens she's a woman, but she just transcends gender.

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Speaker 1: She's going to speak to men and women. I love

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Speaker 1: that that actually underscores a point that I love making

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Speaker 1: about gender is that good representations of gender in media

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Speaker 1: is good for everyone, not just women, not just men,

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Speaker 1: but everyone, like men can benefit from seeing multifaceted, strong

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Speaker 1: women on screen. In the episode that I did on

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Speaker 1: Black Panther, we talked to Jenna Wortham about this UM

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Speaker 1: from the podcast Still Processing, and she that's great point

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't considered, which is that when men see

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Speaker 1: strong characters who are women, who are multifaceted on screen,

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Speaker 1: it actually helps them in their lives because then they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a representation of how men work on teams

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Speaker 1: with women or how you know, women control in my

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Speaker 1: life and I should respect them. It's not just for women,

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Speaker 1: and to speak to everybody, it's a good everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good representation, good characters benefits all of us. Well, we

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Speaker 1: have so much more Star Wars and feminism to talk about,

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Speaker 1: but first a quick break for a word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. One of the big

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Speaker 1: arguments I remember seeing about Ray when it when she

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Speaker 1: first debuted UM was that she was a merry Sue UM.

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Speaker 1: And if you're not familiar with that terminology, one you've

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Speaker 1: clearly never read fan fiction and too. Here's here's the

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Speaker 1: general definition, but it's difficult to pin down a fictional

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Speaker 1: female character who is perfect in every way, usually usually

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Speaker 1: an idealized wish fulfillment of the author. Can you give

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Speaker 1: us some examples of other mary sus. My mind immediately

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Speaker 1: went to I have written some Van Victor in my day. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's from this book heat this unpublished manuscript by myself forthcoming.

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Speaker 1: Don't you worry. I wrote a Star Wars dand fiction

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Speaker 1: that had a Mary Sue and her name was Tera Pilaris.

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Speaker 1: And that is a sign of a Mary Sue, right

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Speaker 1: there is when they have a weird like Ariadne, like

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Speaker 1: some I'm like, oh this, this girl's complicated, mysterious past.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Hella, hard to pronounce. Yes, we've got

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Speaker 1: marys Um. Well, let's let's look at the definition a

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Speaker 1: bit more. She's got mad skill, she's hilarious, she's with

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Speaker 1: it's smart, everyone wants to date her probably um. Depending

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Speaker 1: on what circle you're in, this definition can vary wildly

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Speaker 1: because what is perfect anyway. It is usually reserved for

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Speaker 1: fan fiction, but it has expanded to more pop culture.

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Speaker 1: For another nerd reference, I have heard, um a Lily

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Speaker 1: Potter from Harry Potter referred to as a Mary Sue. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've also heard that the main character from the Fifty

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Speaker 1: Shades of Gray movies, she's a bit of a merry

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Speaker 1: Sue because she, like if you've ever seen I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you've seen those movies, but she is super talented,

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Speaker 1: Like she excels at her job in this way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense where it's likely you went from

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Speaker 1: an intern to running this company. What if everybody wants

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Speaker 1: to date her? Like she's always sending off that, you know,

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Speaker 1: affections of people who all want to be in her

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Speaker 1: world and you must be nice, but you know not

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Speaker 1: a probably fun facts. Probably all of you know this,

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Speaker 1: But fifty Shades of Gray is based on a Twilight

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Speaker 1: fan fiction. I didn't know that. I'm all about fanild

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Speaker 1: I really want to do an episode on fan fiction

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Speaker 1: one day, one day. Um. The term mary suit traces

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Speaker 1: back to a Chrecky's Tale, a Star Trek fan fix

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Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy four, which itself was a parody of

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Speaker 1: another fan fix trope, the self insert, which is when

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Speaker 1: a bridget finds herself in the middle of stars. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't know how she got there. What is she gonna

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Speaker 1: do that? Yeah, that's another one. I might have written

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Speaker 1: one for UM TV Tropes dot org as a good

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Speaker 1: breakdown of a merry Sue and the common traits all

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Speaker 1: appropriately ending in sue like anti suit, black hole sue,

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Speaker 1: god mode sue, sympathetic sue, thirty soup pile up. What's

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Speaker 1: the thirty soup pile up? I think that's when they're like,

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Speaker 1: you have clones, So I thought of Resident Evil and

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Speaker 1: Alice has all of those clones. Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: the thirty soup pieties. I love the terminology UM. And

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Speaker 1: also be clear, we're not talking about the Mary Sue,

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Speaker 1: which is a website media thing different UM. In the

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Speaker 1: context of Ray's supposed Mary suoneness, the fans point to

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Speaker 1: her skills like piloting, how quick she was picking up

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Speaker 1: the force and a lightsaber as evidence. And this criticism

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Speaker 1: has come up enough that Daisy Ridley, the actress again

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Speaker 1: was asked about it in an interview and she called

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Speaker 1: it sexist. She said there's no such thing as a

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Speaker 1: Ryan Craig, which there is a Gary stew or a

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Speaker 1: Marty Sue depending UM. But this is derived from Mary Sue,

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Speaker 1: and probably most people don't know that term. You might

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Speaker 1: you know Mary Sue, but you probably don't know. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, Mary Sue, even if you're someone

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Speaker 1: who is a casual consumer of this kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of media, if if, even if you hadn't heard that term,

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Speaker 1: if I described it, you'd be like, oh, exactly, I've

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Speaker 1: seen that a million times. Gary Sue, I feel like,

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Speaker 1: is much less ubiquitous, right, And that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: point she was making. Um, it doesn't come up in

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Speaker 1: interviews with male actors. Are you a Gary Stew? They're

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Speaker 1: not criticized in the same gendered way. Their characters are underdeveloped,

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Speaker 1: are poorly written, They're not Gary Stews. And another thing

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Speaker 1: is Luke from the Originals did pretty much the same thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've read nitpicky accounts of Yeah, but he had more

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Speaker 1: time he raged with But that's not really the point.

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Speaker 1: We didn't even ask these questions about him. We didn't

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Speaker 1: even ask in the before he went away to train

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Speaker 1: in my favorite one of the Empire strikes Back. He

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Speaker 1: picked up those things pretty quick in a New Hope.

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Speaker 1: And we didn't ask those questions about Han either, And

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Speaker 1: She's not a perfect character, and by no means should

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Speaker 1: all characters be like Ray. But we need all types

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Speaker 1: of good female characters as diverse as we all are,

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Speaker 1: and some of us are good at a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I read a good point I believe it was

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Speaker 1: from the Mary su Um about how, like we don't

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Speaker 1: want all male characters to be like Captain America. You know,

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Speaker 1: like Ray is one type of character, and because they're

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Speaker 1: so rare, I guess we're over analyzing everything about it.

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Speaker 1: But she doesn't have to beat this perfect written character.

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Speaker 1: You know. Well, that's a great argument for why we

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Speaker 1: need more female representation, because if there's not that many

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Speaker 1: the one who we the ones who we have, they're

424
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: gonna be picked apart, and so it's going to be

425
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, are they this? Are they that? And if

426
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: we had more, characters could just sort of exist and

427
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to sort of be asked in every interview,

428
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: you know what about this? You know, tell me about

429
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: your character, what do you think about gender? All of that, Like,

430
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: like you said earlier, it would just be something that

431
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: exists and not something that has to be sort of

432
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: picked apart. Even though I recognize the irony that we're

433
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: doing a podcast basically doing that we see whatever I

434
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: think we're picking apart more of like the reaction. Yeah,

435
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: I mean I'm yeah. Um. Also, I'll pick up part

436
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: any media that I love. I'm that type of person.

437
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: But I A good exercise I found is to imagine

438
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: her as a white male character and to see if

439
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: you'd have the same issues popping up with him, this

440
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: white male character being too good, it's something or too

441
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: many things. That's a good exercise, isn't that the antie?

442
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: Did you come up with that? I feel like probably

443
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people have had this thought, but I had.

444
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: I did have the thought my brain and Star Wars test.

445
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: You know, you feel weird, ask or something. See what

446
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: it tells you should coin that? Yes, can we make

447
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: any money off of it? We're all about making the money.

448
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: And as reported by The Mary Sue about this whole

449
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: Mary Sue thing, a group called Down with Disney's treatment

450
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: of franchises and it's fan boys raised an army of

451
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: bots to tank The last jedis the which is the

452
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: sequel to The Force Awakens Um Rotten Tomatoes score why

453
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: according to them? Quote introducing more female characters into the

454
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: franchises universe, making one of the male characters quote a

455
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: victim of anti Man's planning movement, so the two main

456
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: male characters might quote turn gay. Oh my god, Oh

457
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: my god. Okay, this is something that I mean. I

458
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: the the amount of vitriol I have for people that

459
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: do this kind of thing is vast, and you see

460
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: it so often. They did the same thing with the

461
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: Black Panther, where people wanted to not people I guess

462
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: white men who were who were annoying. How dare this

463
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: one movie have black characters? And I know the worst,

464
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: but I mean, this is a level of protectiveness I

465
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: think you see in a lot of sort of fan

466
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: cultures where you know, it's it's cool to have something

467
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: that you like and be protective of it, but it

468
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: can really easily spit out into something that's super toxic.

469
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: And it's it's super toxic too, have a coordinated campaign

470
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: to tank the reviews and the scores of this film,

471
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: Like that's if you find yourself doing that, take a

472
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: step back and look at yourself. I mean, come on, yeah,

473
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: it's not yours that it's always gotten to me, like

474
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: it's not yours, not yours, everybody. It's everybody's and the

475
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: more people, I would hope and think, the more people

476
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: that enjoy it, that enjoy something you like, even if

477
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: it is in a different way that maybe it's not

478
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: the same as yours, but they still like it, And

479
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: can't we all share in this enjoyment of the thing,

480
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: and instead of trying to exclude people or I could

481
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: do a whole feel about fan entitlement um, especially as

482
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: since I am a nerd and a woman, I gets

483
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: so many times to prove like, you're wearing a Star

484
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: Wars shirt. You like Star Wars, so tell me where,

485
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: what planet? How old? What? What was the name of

486
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: the production assistant? And what high school did he go to?

487
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: In the empire? Strikes back, Oh, you don't know who

488
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: we're fan? That's I mean, I I get that too, Like,

489
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, being a music fan. That's like if you're

490
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: wearing like, uh, you know, a short of any band,

491
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: dudes love to test you. But what's funny is that

492
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: I guarantee that nine of ten dudes out there and

493
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: I welcome the challenge. So you in a bar feel

494
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: free to challenge me. I know more about music than them,

495
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: and I love luring them in like, oh yeah, like

496
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: ask me some questions so that I can dance circles

497
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: around you with my knowledge, and I bet you do

498
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: the same thing. You're like, oh yeah, please please challenge me, sir,

499
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: so I can show you how much more I know

500
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: about this than you and embarrass you and make you

501
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: rue the day you ever came up and talk to me. Yeah.

502
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: I feel like you're a hustler, like instead of a

503
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: pool hustler, a hustler. I love when you do. You

504
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: win those battles and then they kind of are like, well,

505
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know some things, but I

506
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: probably know more than just kind of walk away. Okay, Cool,

507
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: that was a fun interaction. Um, and we'll we'll come

508
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: back to the last Jedi in a second, and we'll

509
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: come back to even more uh fun angry response to it.

510
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: But there's another movie we need to touch on, and

511
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: chronologically Star Wars can get very confusing, and I think

512
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: bridget you and I should have a like Star Wars night.

513
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna you're gonna have to let me nerd

514
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: out for like twenty minutes and then I'll leave you alone. Um,

515
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: but so you get the furce Awakensen, you get Rogue One,

516
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: which is actually a prequel to a New Hope anyway. Um.

517
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: Felicity Jones plays the main character, jin Urso, who is tough.

518
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: She's a fighter, she's a leader. And what's interesting about

519
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: her is that if you look at the Star Wars

520
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: films preceding hers, there's always kind of a pair thing happening. Um,

521
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: but this is not really the case in Rogue One.

522
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: There are pairs, but she's the main character. The story

523
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: revolves around her, and um, there is kind of a romance,

524
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: but I would argue it's like not even really a romance.

525
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: It's just not the main point. And it's pretty much

526
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: her story and not um, not even partner pairs like

527
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: han and Luke er Lea and han or like it

528
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: was her and that was the first time that's happened

529
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: in the Star Wars universe. Um. And she wears practical

530
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: combat stuff and she's very successful in combat. You keep

531
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: mentioning the costuming, and I know it's a small thing,

532
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: but it isn't really a small thing when you think

533
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: about it, Like when you when if you grew up

534
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: watching movies or women fight and they're always in bikinis

535
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: or outfits that make no sense. Even that small the

536
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: detail like the costuming does signal we understand that that

537
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: we have been treating female characters in this weird, gross way,

538
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: with this weird, gross gaze, and we're stepping away from that.

539
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: Like even a small detail like that does seem to

540
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: show some sort of progress. Yeah, and I will say

541
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: from a personal level, I wasn't until I got to

542
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: college that I realized how much like seeing those images

543
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: of women sexualized but in kind of like a weird

544
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: it's okay way because they're also strong, had impacted me

545
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: because it still is telling you like, ultimately, it's your

546
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: body and your looks is where your value is and

547
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: that's why you're here. You might be able to do

548
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: this stuff and that's cool, but it's your body. Even

549
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: if you're Laura Cross and you're super talented and super

550
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, tactical, you gotta be wearing like a sexy outfit. Yeah,

551
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: and again I'm all about wearing a sexy outfit. But

552
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: it's just like in fighting, situations are all the time,

553
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: constant when it doesn't make sense. That's why it's refreshing

554
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: to see, oh, she's in practical close for the situation

555
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: that she is in. It always reminds me of this

556
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: idea of suspension of disbelief. Right when you watch a movie,

557
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be sort of immersed in this world

558
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: and details like that that are like make no sense.

559
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: It's almost like a continuity issue. But it just goes

560
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: to show that her looking sexy is more important than

561
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: the movie making sense in a kind of way, right,

562
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: like this would never happen in reality, but they the filmmakers,

563
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: care less about that, about maintaining the integrity of the

564
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: universe they have built, than they do about you know,

565
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: sexy ladies. Yeah, but it also goes to show how

566
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: um commonplace it is that we don't really question it

567
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: so much, Like, well, yeah, of course she's going to

568
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: be no sexy thing. She's a hot lady and she's

569
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: the lady in this group. So that's just how it goes.

570
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm glad that we're moving away from that.

571
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: And I gotta say I love the costuming of like Jenner.

572
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: So she looks badass. You can you can have you

573
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: can look good and still be practical. Yeah, okay, so

574
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 1: we have even more even more um but first one,

575
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: last quick break for a word from our sponsor, and

576
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. Okay, now we are I

577
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: as the last Jedi and as that terrified fanboy group decried, Um,

578
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: this one did introduce more female characters. You've got Rose

579
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: who took no bis, Admiral Holdo who took no bis,

580
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: especially from quote trigger happy fly boys. Yeah, it bought

581
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: Bacalaia now a commander who takes no bs, and right

582
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: of course, who took no bs. Um. And that's the

583
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: most in the main cast of any Star Wars film

584
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: to date. I love that. So I love that they

585
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: put Leia and ray Kind in conversation. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Yeah,

586
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: and um, Admiral Holdo and Leiah are friends. And then

587
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: it was like the first female star was friendship and

588
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: they just have conversations where they're both leaders trying to

589
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: accomplish this thing, but they're friendly with each other. And

590
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: it's wild that that is so it's wild that that's wild.

591
00:33:53,680 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. I was watching it like whoa, whoa, what's happening. Um.

592
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: It has been called the most feminist Star Wars yet.

593
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: Anna Smith of the Guardian wrote both in terms of

594
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: women and non white characters. There's a celebratory inclusiveness that

595
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: seems entirely in the Jedi spirit. Documentarian analies A. Fillion wrote,

596
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: The Last Jedi depicts women as multifaceted, multigenerational, multiracial. There

597
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: are women in strong leadership leadership positions and women who

598
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: occupy student learner positions. Yeah. So I love how she's

599
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: broken this down because again, it sort of reflects how

600
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: women work in teams where you have, you know, That's

601
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: why I think. I love the fact that they brought

602
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher back to you know, be in conversation with

603
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: another strong female leader. It really seems to reflect the

604
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: dynamic that women have in workplaces and sort of mentorship

605
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: and peers and you know, getting along or like maybe

606
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: you don't get along, but your still you still respect

607
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: for each other. I love that it's a really multifaceted

608
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: illustration of women on teams together and women leading to Yeah,

609
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: I love it too, And I hadn't really considered. Um,

610
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: I was telling you yesterday VII that doing the research

611
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: for this episode made me appreciate this movie even more

612
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: because when I first saw it, Um, it's all about

613
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: failure and it's a very difficult movie to watch. In

614
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: my opinion, it was. And plus Luke Skywalker my crush. Well, anyway,

615
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta tell y'all. I ran into Annie

616
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: in the bathroom here at the studio yesterday and we

617
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: were talking about this in the bathroom and you were like,

618
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: I almost can't watch it again. I can't. It's tough

619
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: because it's all about it is about failure. And Um,

620
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: I didn't realize until I was doing this research that

621
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: a lot of it is about shutting down man's planing. Um.

622
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: The fanboy group pulls right about that. So much of

623
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 1: it is like after after me and my friends saw it,

624
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: one of the characters, Poe, who was very likable, UM,

625
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: and that that's important, is that he's likable. We all

626
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: like him. But he keeps making these mistakes and he's

627
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: not listening to Leah and she gives him orders. He's

628
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: not listening to Holdo and she gives him orders. He

629
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: does all these things and kind of ruins everything, kind

630
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: of keeps messing up plan after plan after plan. Sounds familiar,

631
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: like like I know some of these types. But see

632
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: it's great because we like him. It's better to see

633
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: it because if it's a villain, you can just dismiss it. Yeah, exactly,

634
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: so if he because he's likable and you know, like

635
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: he seems like a nice enough guy. When there's somebody

636
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: in your life who was being toxic and sexist and

637
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: racist or whatever. Sometimes it is, or I would say

638
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: probably more often than not, it's someone who you you know,

639
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: maybe like or do you feel like, Oh, he's not

640
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: a bad person, not a bad guy. So it's it's

641
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: good to have the character who keeps, you know, up

642
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, and not listening to women,

643
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: be sort of someone who seems nice enough, not like

644
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: this scary, awful villain, because that that author rises those

645
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: those sentiments, like those are sentiments that we associate with

646
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: someone who's a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy,

647
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: therefore I'm fine. Yeah, And um, he has a character

648
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: arc and he kind of sees I have made all

649
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: of these mistakes and now I really need to shut

650
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: up and listen. Um. But after I left, like, but

651
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: your minds a buzz with what we've just seen. And

652
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: my friend turned to me and I dropped a bucket

653
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: of popcorn, and she turned to me and she said,

654
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: you really powed it up, which is the name of

655
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: the character. And I didn't realize until we're doing this, like,

656
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Man's planning oh powing it up. Um.

657
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, there was so much fanboy backlash

658
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: tweets like the movie was garbage. They're making movies now

659
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: for feminists in mainland China. The rest of us don't matter.

660
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: I guess four exclamation points or too much comedy and

661
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: social justice warrior references, especially by Vice Admiral Purple Hair

662
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: on the resistance in quotes in all caps and quote.

663
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: First of all, if you're trying to emphasize the word

664
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: in a tweet, you don't need both. You can vote

665
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: or you can do all cap. You do not need both.

666
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: That's egregious. Yeah. Now I'm like questioning, what if this

667
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: is a joke tweet. I don't know. I mean, look

668
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: at it. I mean, that's really it's too much. It's

669
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: too much. It was clearly aimed at at real Donald

670
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: Trump and his supporters. Thanks for ruining the Star Wars franchise,

671
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: Disney And has anyone noticed that the new Star Wars

672
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: series is all feminist propaganda? Oh my god. First of all,

673
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: I love this idea that feminists are this underground sleeper

674
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: cell network that's very powerful, that we're churning out propaganda

675
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: to make more feminists and we have meetings underground Disney.

676
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I love this reality where we have all

677
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: this power, you know, you know we have that we

678
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: have a you know, a bug in the ear of

679
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,479
Speaker 1: big time executives at Disney. I wish that was the case,

680
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: or maybe it is the case. Let's not say too much.

681
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: I don't wanna, I don't wanna, don't give too much away,

682
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: but um, and this is something I did want to know,

683
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: is um and most likely unnecessarily, but in all cases,

684
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: you cannot like the movie. Um. There are problems with

685
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: all of them, legitimate critiques. I had problems with UM

686
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: most of them, and especially some of the new ones.

687
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: But we're looking here specifically at people who found the

688
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 1: problem with it because it was feminist, or because they

689
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: were looking at the female characters in this way that

690
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: we do not look at male characters, are judging them

691
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: through that way. Totally cool to not like a movie

692
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: for like, legitimate, non non sexist reason. Yeah, yeah, I

693
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: think that's an important point to make, because I don't

694
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: make Anyone is saying you have to like this movie,

695
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: but not liking it specifically because it has too many

696
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: women is really yeah. Yeah, And again, like going back

697
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: to that Mary Sue argument, if you're saying you think

698
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: the character of Ray is underdeveloped, are poorly written, Yeah, yeah,

699
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: that's that's different than she's a Mary Sue and I

700
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: a man would never Oh I did read? Oh wait,

701
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: I have it right here. Here's a quote. Here's a

702
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: quote from American Greatness. For Ray to truly struggle, to

703
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: encounter an internal crisis that would develop her as a

704
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: character would be to make her vulnerable and thus more

705
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: of a woman, but less of a feminist hero. So

706
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: screenwriter and director Ryan Johnson purture of weakness and dependency,

707
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: and the filmmakers desire to paint her as a feminist

708
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: badass and girl power boss bitch who can take care

709
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: of herself, Thank you very much. Johnson leaves with a

710
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: lonely and utterly rootless woman crammed into a hyper masculine role.

711
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: This betrayal doesn't work because men and women are not interchangeable.

712
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: Neither are the masculine and feminine hero miss The feminist

713
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: effort to chevret and to the masculine journey results in

714
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: in an essentially transgendered, unnatural and corrupt character. But beyond

715
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: her inauthenticity as a masculine hero raised perfection, and her

716
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: cross dressing deprived the film of another crucial element. I

717
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: could have quoted that whole argument. There was so much

718
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: there that I was reading, like, he cannot be serious,

719
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: He's totally serious. I was laughing aloud at some of

720
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: it because I thought, no way, can someone right this seriously? Yeah,

721
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the most intense thing I've ever read.

722
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, Star Wars brings out the intensity, but that's

723
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: essentially what I'm saying. If you if you got problems

724
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: with it because you think it's poorly written, okay, but

725
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: if you got problems with it because of something like this,

726
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: that you think that you know, she's a I mean,

727
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: he just he describes her as transgendered. He says, essentially transgendered.

728
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: A wild thing to say that is that is such

729
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: a wild thing to say. And he even points out

730
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: her her clothes. I don't know if it was in

731
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: that quote, but he does. He pointed it out. He says, yeah,

732
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 1: he says that her quote cross dressing by the Film

733
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: of Romance. Like, I just think that even the language

734
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: that he uses to break this up down is almost

735
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: I almost find it shocking. Yeah, I really want to

736
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: know what woman hurt this guy, Like, what strong feminist

737
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: character who wasn't vulnerable and I was dressed like a

738
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: man like this guy. I don't know, Bridget will never know.

739
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: Um Holda was a She was a character. She's played

740
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: by Laura Dern. I love Laura um And she had

741
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: purple hair and jewelry and kind of a nice dress,

742
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: and she drew a lot of criticism. And I think

743
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: the reason a lot of the fanboys really had a

744
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: problem with her, it's because she was feminized, but also

745
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: because she kind of came in and then told Poe

746
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: that the male character that's pretty likable. I'm in I'm

747
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: in charge now and you're gonna do what I say.

748
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: And nobody none of these angry fan boys liked that.

749
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: I also think it's interesting going back to one of

750
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: the angry fan Bay tweets that shared earlier in the episode,

751
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: and he specifically says, oh, with her purple hair, I

752
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: wonder I almost wonder if it's something about her presentation

753
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: because when you wouldn't as someone who has been screamed

754
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: at by white dudes on the internet for being a

755
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: quote social justice warrior or a feminist or whatever. Um,

756
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 1: they definitely do have a stereotype of you know, oh

757
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: you're a shrill, angry feminist, purple hair, you know, septim piercing,

758
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, you dress a certain way. And I almost

759
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 1: wonder if because she has purple hair and wears jewelry,

760
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: if that that sort of there's a connection there where

761
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: the kind of dudes who shout at feminists on Twitter

762
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: are like, oh you and your purple hair and and

763
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: jewelry and nose piercing. You see that, And they're like, ah,

764
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: it's that girl from Twitter, And now she's lecturing me

765
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: about man splaining and tell this guy what to do.

766
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: My worst nightmare realized on screen is happening. Now. It's

767
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: playing out before my very eyes. Um. I read from

768
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: Laura Dern. She kind of discussed because it was a

769
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: pretty visceral backlash, um from a small like it's actually

770
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: a very small contingent. They just have a loud voice,

771
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you're familiar with. But she she spoke

772
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: to that and she said it was very important to

773
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: her and also the director and screenwriter Ryan Johnson, that

774
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: she be not I mean necessarily feminized, but that she'd

775
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: be kind of there's feminine hints to her costume, that

776
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: she had purple hair, that she had jewelry, she had

777
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: a welfinning dress. She like we've kind of discussed in

778
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: the Final Girl episode, there was this need to make

779
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: the Final Girl more masculine, but they made a deliberate

780
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: choice here. She's feminine. She's a good leader in this episode.

781
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about costuming choices and how it

782
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: is cool in movies when women are dressed appropriately for

783
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: what they're doing. So if they're in battle, you know,

784
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: they're wearing clothes that make sense that you would actually

785
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: wear into battle. But I also think it's cool to

786
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,280
Speaker 1: have female characters who are strong and leaders who dressed feminine.

787
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think that there's not You

788
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: can be a strong leader and still wear jewelry and

789
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: get your hair dyed, enjoy makeup or where heels or whatever.

790
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: I think that that's sort of my my larger point

791
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: that our media should be representative of all of that.

792
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: So whether you're you know, Laura Dern and you're in

793
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: the salon every two weeks to get your roots done

794
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: because it's important to you or your Ray, who just

795
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: wears your hair pulled back and you don't have time

796
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: for that nonsense. Both of those are are strong women

797
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: leaders and both both of those should be represented, right.

798
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: And I think one of the key points to is

799
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: that um, people just dismissed her, even Um dismissed Holdo.

800
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: Even Poe the character he sees there and he's like,

801
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: that's Admiral Holdo and it says it kind of derisively.

802
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: So just to see someone, in this case a woman

803
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: just a certain way, and that's it, Like I'm not

804
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: going to take orders from you, or I think this

805
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: character is the lesbian, or you know, just to write

806
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: someone off immediately, are to put these whatever you think

807
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: that means, what how they're dressing on them immediately. I

808
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: think that was a good Um, it was a I

809
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: like that they made this decision to do that purposefully

810
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: for her. And it's it goes back to the context

811
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: thing too, right, because Ray is surviving in the desert,

812
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: so she's gonna have to like be in a tunic

813
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: and pretty much a tunic, which I did read was

814
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 1: slightly it had a belt to accentuate her waist. Sounds

815
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: quite nice. It sounds comfortable. Belted tunic. If I see

816
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: you walking around the office of the the belted tunic, I'm

817
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: gonna go get one too. I'm just saying I'm gonna

818
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: hop on the train, but I need someone else to

819
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: take the first. Yes, but first you know, I'll be

820
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: the Rosa parks and belted tunic. Perfect perfect. Um. Yeah, So,

821
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: like we said, Poe dismisses her. But if you look

822
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: at Leia um Leia to she she's somebody who's lost

823
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: most of her family at this point in one way

824
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: or another. UM, and she's still being a strong leader

825
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: and a mentor. UM. And if you're looking for a

826
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: good female villain, you have Captain FAsMA who menaces Hollywood

827
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 1: Studios in Disney World. Right now, Ray, you've got her.

828
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: Of course, she grows more powerful and takes on Kyler

829
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: Ren in a fight scene that felt never felt um

830
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: man versus woman, but instead powerful character versus powerful character. Um.

831
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: And most of the heroic things done in this movie

832
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: are done by women, from the self sacrifice in the

833
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: very beginning to Ray lifting hell or rocks with her

834
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: mind at the end. Um, By and large, women hold

835
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: the most powerful positions, ones that they earned. Leia might

836
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: have been born a princess, but she worked a way

837
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: up to the command rank. And I love a comparison

838
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: I found between Holdo and Leiah Calm, collected, reasoned and

839
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: two of the male characters, Kylo Wren and General Hucks,

840
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: who don't have one scene together where they aren't fighting

841
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: um As the author suggested, it could be because both

842
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: are occupying a position neither earned, yet they both feel

843
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: deserve more. Yeah, yeah, I like that all. I was like,

844
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: oh yeah, um. And that's another funny thing um about

845
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: this is a couple of people mentioned that Adam Driver

846
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: plays Kyler Ren and he has a shirtless scene in

847
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: this movie. And it's very surprising, like you do not

848
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: see it coming, or at least I did. I'm like,

849
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: oh my god, and he's ripped but there's no It

850
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: was like kind of like a usually women are getting

851
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: there was he was he chained to uh someone No, no,

852
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 1: but it was a a girl can dream no. I mean,

853
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: there's still one more left bridget um. Oh and when

854
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: Ray turns down Kylo Read's offer to the galaxy together.

855
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: He becomes very angry and violent, and I bet that

856
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: sounds familiar to a lot of us um who have

857
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: turned down a dude, oh, a dude who seems fine

858
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: later revealing himself to be toxic and violent. I don't

859
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: say I've never heard of that before. So, yeah, the

860
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: last Sjedi was I I should watch it again. I

861
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: should get over my hang up about it. What we're

862
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: doing our Star Wars movie night. Yeah, we are, we are.

863
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so fun. I mean it's gonna be

864
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: fun for me. I hope, I I hope it'll be

865
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: fun for you. I'm sure we'll be if we're If

866
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: we're looking at the future and there's a long Star

867
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: Wars future ahead of us. Um. If you want to

868
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: find some Star Wars happiness and signs of why this

869
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: whole thing matters? Why do we have a whole episode

870
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: about Star Wars, you can look up hashtag star Wars

871
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: rep matters, um. And I gotta say, like I said,

872
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: the research on all of this helped me appreciate the

873
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: importance of it even more. It's easy to kind of

874
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: just dismiss things as media, but you forget when you're

875
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: especially when you're a child that's seeing those things. It

876
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: is important and it does matter. Um, So I'm happy

877
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: that there moving, they're moving forward, they're progressing. Well, I'm

878
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: happy they're progressing too because one of my favorite actors

879
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: flash musicians is going to be a young Lando Calarussian

880
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: Donald Lover, who I love. And again, I'm happy that

881
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: this representation does not just count for women, that it's

882
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: also for race. It's it's nice to see folks of

883
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: all colors and genders represented. And when they announced that

884
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: Donald Glover was going to be in solo coming Out,

885
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: I was super stoked. Yeah, I mean too, I was

886
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: so excited. Um, and uh it has to. I am

887
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: assuming pretty lead type female roles both from HBO Amelia

888
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: Clark and Sandy Newton. Um. And the last year I

889
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: Get Rose was the first um Asian American lead in

890
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: Star Wars ever. Yeah, so definitely it's good to move forward,

891
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: um with representing all all people, all of us. Well.

892
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: The counter argument that I think is so funny about

893
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: that when people get bent out of shape of you know,

894
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: people of color being in these movies and they're like, oh, well,

895
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: there weren't Asian women and black people and blah blah blah.

896
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: It's like it's first of all, fantasy and second of

897
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: all it's like they have it is. Why is it

898
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: that you know your mind can expand to include like, oh, yeah,

899
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: there's aliens, there's robots, there's there's that, but Asian women. No, No,

900
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: my mind cannot fund that. There's no space. And money wise,

901
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: the Star Wars sequels now with more ladies or they're

902
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: doing just fine, they're not going away. If we look

903
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: at data from box office Mojo from two thousand six, um,

904
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: and if we look at the money made by movies

905
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: with a female lead versus a male lead and nothing

906
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: else like cutting out ensembles or robot alien not human leads,

907
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: the data shows that domestically in the US, female lead

908
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 1: movies made on average one point six million dollars as

909
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: compared to eighty point six million a year um made

910
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: by movies with male leads. So that's a pretty that's

911
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: a pretty sizeable profit margin chunk right there. So these

912
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: films are making money. Yeah, And um, I forgot to

913
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: mention this fact at the top, but I do want

914
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: to bring it up. Is in the first the original trilogy,

915
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: there were four female roles in all three of them,

916
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: and Princess LEAs one. The other three each had less

917
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: than a minute of screen time. Logistically it seems difficult

918
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: to believe, but damn yeah. Yeah, So now we have

919
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: for women in lead roles in the last Jedi. So

920
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: I'm I'm that just goes to show how far we've come. Yeah,

921
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: I mean that is something. It is. So things are

922
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: improving slowly but surely. And here's hoping on this this

923
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: Star Wars day that it continues. Um. A good next

924
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: step that I saw from a lot of people would

925
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: be a female director or one of color. Are both?

926
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: Um and yes, oh I got so excited. Yes that

927
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: would be a Star Wars first So I think that

928
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: would be great. Get getting more women or people of color,

929
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: all of the above in writing the writing process to

930
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's a it should be an inclusive universe,

931
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: because yeah, this guy's aliens and it's this whole wide galaxy, galaxy, galaxy.

932
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a galaxy far far away it is.

933
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: But yet I think we can I think we can

934
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: attain it here. That's beautiful, Annie, thank you to see

935
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: these movies we're gonna do, like the craziest movie night.

936
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: It's gonna be ex I literally can't wait. Awesome. Well,

937
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: thank you for indulging me, Bridget and listeners, um and

938
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: have you May the fourth. If you've got Star Wars stories, Oh,

939
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: if you've done any kind of Star Wars crafting our

940
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: art fan fiction, please send them to us. You can

941
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast and Instagram

942
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You, and our email is mom

943
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com. May the Force

944
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: be with you, Annie and YouTube Bridget