WEBVTT - Selects: How Hate Works 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.040 Hi Friends. Is Charles W. Chuck Bryant here, your friendly 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:09.920 neighborhood podcaster setting up this week's Saturday Selects episode and 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:14.400 this week everybody, I picked that episode all about hate. Oh, 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.319 I hate this, hate it when people do that, hate 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.919 it when that happens. You probably say that stuff a lot. 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.239 But what does hate really mean? What is it the 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.239 core of hate? And what does it mean for the 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.840 world in our community? Well, we talk about all that 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:38.159 stuff in this episode from how hate works. Welcome to 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:47.200 Stuff you Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.040 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.040 is always the chipper and cheerful Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Man, 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.800 I'm going ten different directions, buddy. Yeah, I'm a little 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:03.320 screwy are Yeah, we'll focus on this one. Okay, okay, 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.840 because we're going on in one direction, and that's hate. 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.479 I hate to focus. Okay. You hate broccoli. I do 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.679 hate broccoli, and you know that. I also hate peas, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.760 like split peas. I remember declaring um as a child 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.800 that peas are some of my most hated enemies. I 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.679 think a lot of kids don't like peas because they're mushy. Yeah, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.560 well that's the problem with all vegetables really, they're mushy. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.840 They're overcooked if you cook something. No, I've had pretty 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.280 nasty broccoli. But BROCCOLI's all that's separate. It's just disgusting 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.240 in every single way. But cream spinach, I love that. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.000 It's awesome. Yeah, that's good stuff. You and I shared 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:44.280 a cream spinach at Morton steak Has recently, like two ladies. Yeah, 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.199 it was something we couldn't even finish. It was so rich. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.240 It was really good, So chuck. We don't hate cream spinach. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.680 I hate broccoli and um. One of the things I 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.080 hate more than anything else is not having an intro, 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:01.320 which I don't because I was looking online and strangely 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:06.200 they're The online world is a repository for hate in 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.400 a certain way, as in like um, neo Nazi punk 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:17.040 bands not pants huh. This article calls it pop music, yeah, um, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.160 or you know Facebook groups dedicated to hate, like you know, 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.639 Holocaust denial and that kind of stuff. Sure, um, but 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.120 this word is so ubiquitous in our culture that there 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.840 was nothing there. Like I found a guy um and 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.880 dairy and mass who was accused of hate crime. Um, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.959 everybody wants to know why, Um, Cleveland fans hate Lebron 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.240 I can answer that, But I mean, like, we throw 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.920 this word around like the you know, some reality TV 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.600 series was the show you love to hate? Right, Um, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.720 we we use this word a lot. But yeah, I 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.919 found a study out of the University of Texas that 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:02.120 that asked people how often they hate it, and um, 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.880 nobody said every day. It's not an everyday thing. So 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.640 like we we hate things like broccoli, but we also 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.320 realized that there's a real distinction between hating something and 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.040 experiencing actual hate. You hit it on the head, and 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.079 this is a pretty old distinction, right, Like, like philosophers 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.120 have have been aware of this before. I think Aristotle 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:28.280 was pretty sure he hated peas, but he really hated 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.600 him Lock. Yeah, he and he's not Webster, so I 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:35.760 will read his definition because he's Aristotle. Yeah, he said 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.960 it was a dislike for someone based on our negative 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.440 perception of that person's nature that is so intense that 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.480 whoever feels it wants to cause real harm to another, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.040 Like I really want to harm you. Yeah, So that's 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.560 the difference. Like Pete, like you said, people throw that 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.200 word around. I hate broccoli. But you're not going to 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.600 go out and try and burn down broccoli farms. No, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.920 I know that's silly. I'm not gonna go burn down 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.120 be BROCCOLI's family's broccoli farm that was used to fund 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.680 the James Bond movies. But Josh, I think, and this 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.240 is me surmising in my own personal purview, I think 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.400 there are kind of two types of hate, well three 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.200 types really. Then one type that you just throw the 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.360 word around like I hate that show, I hate broccoli. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.520 One that is real hate, which I think is fear 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:25.400 based when you don't know someone personally or a group personally, 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:30.080 where you hate a group of people. And then there's 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:35.040 like the anger retribution based hate, like someone personally has 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.080 wronged you so badly that you hate them and and 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.920 cause and either want to cause or which ill upon them. Right, Well, 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.440 you just brought up a huge can of worms by 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.719 using the word anger. Like there's a real debate over 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.200 whether hate and anger are the same thing, right right. 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.919 They say they're not. It depends on who you talk to. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.599 But the people who say they're not say things like, um, 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.480 hate is is brought on by humiliation or ill treatment 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.760 or being devalued where anger is brought on when you're 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.560 when you're treated UM in a way that you consider unfairly. Right. Right, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:18.320 anger is the result of UM not having any recourse, 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.520 right frustration perhaps coupled with that, right and that that 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 kind of dances along the border because people who hate, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.560 you know, other groups often are frustrated, Like when we 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.799 talked about the fascism and the Fascism podcast, getting um 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.360 getting groups all riled up against a scapegoat, is one 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.440 of the tenets of fascism, right, And so these people 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.400 are frustrated at their lot in life, their unemployment high 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.440 because of the Jews or something like that, Right, But 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:53.720 really they're not. They're they're angry about their job while 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.920 they hate the Jews. So the two are really intertwined. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.960 But there's a lot of people think if you look 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.680 at them deeply enough to not one and the same, right, Well, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:03.000 I think a lot of times I kind of hate 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.040 has displaced anger and frustration at your own you know, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.520 a lot like what we're saying. Yeah, but there is 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:13.599 there is also a very um strong physiological basis to 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.320 it as well. I Mean, it's an emotion supposedly, although 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.400 it's not one of the basic emotions anger is yeah, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:31.039 what are the basic emotions? Anger? Joy, fear, disgusted, and peckishness. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.280 I thought it was joy, pain, sunshine and rain. No, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.680 who's that Rob Base? No? I can't remember. I could 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.039 sing it, but I can't remember sing it. No, no, no, 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.000 I think it's Rob Base. No it was. It was 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.200 a duo. Oh no, no, I'm thinking of I Want money, 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.880 lots and lots of money. That was a duo to 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.160 be Rich? Remember that stupid song? Yeah, kind of. They 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.600 wrote a song about being rich. Oh yeah, how great 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.760 it was, and that was their only song. So unless 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.679 they were already rich than they never were from that song, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.680 that makes sense. Yeah, it does just blew my mind, buddy. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.920 So do you hate that song? Uh? I do now 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.440 because it's in my head. So Chuck, What is this 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.440 um physiological basis of anger? Well, it's pointed out in 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.320 the article within an Iron Maiden song, which I thought 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.440 was an odd choice. There's a thin line between love 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.280 and hate. Yeah, it's like there's a whole other song 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.840 called There's a thin Line between Love and Hate. Well, 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.320 there's a much more popular song, I think the Persuaders, 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.920 which was it's a thin line between love and hate 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.120 the old Motown song. Right, have you ever heard the 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.040 Pretender's version of it? No, it's hands down the greatest 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.960 version ever. Really is a thin between love and Hey, 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.360 the Pretenders covered the Persuaders. Yep, all right, I'm telling 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.720 you all right. So apparently Iron Maiden actually listen to 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:57.480 that song on YouTube the other day and it's a 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.680 it's an Iron Maiden song. Yeah no, I looked it 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.680 up to make sure that Iron maidenheadn't covered the Persuaders, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.760 and uh no, Bruce Dickinson came up with his own lyrics, 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.720 his own version. He's like, that one's fine, I'm doing 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.400 this one. That's right. So the point of all this, Josh, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.680 is that there is a thin line between love and 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.800 hate as far as uh the brain goes. Because um, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:18.920 in two thousand and eight, there was a study at 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.520 the University College of London and that's in the UK, 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.520 and um, they got seventeen people, not very wide ranging. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.040 I had a lot of problems with this study, but 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.920 they got seventeen people who said they hated someone else. 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:34.800 Maybe that's why they Maybe I have a hard time 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:39.599 finding someone who hates someone else. Maybe not because I 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.640 don't hate anyone. I was about to ask you that. Well, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.520 we'll get to the personal stuff in a minute. OK. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.120 So this study, what they did was they found seventeen 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.480 people who hated someone else, threw him under the old 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.839 wonder machine and looked, showed him pictures of the people 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.800 they hated, which to record the results. I guess they're like, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.040 you need to bring picture the people you hate for 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:02.680 the study. Yeah, they could have just said think of 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:04.240 the person you hate, I think, and it would achieve 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.280 the same goal, I guess. So anyway, they what they 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.440 found out was that a couple of regions in the 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:12.720 brain there's like a hate circuit. They call it there 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:19.480 the pudaminta and the Jerry laughed at that, and the 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:25.480 insular cortex in both fired up with pictures of people 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.720 that they hated, right, And the significance of this is 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.240 that both of those regions also fire up when you 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.720 see a picture or think about someone you love, which 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.080 is the longest way to say, it's a thin line 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.560 between lemon hate, right, and I think everybody kind of 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:47.120 senses that it's like um when passions flaring are it's 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.160 virtually the same thing. There are two sides of one coin. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.920 In my opinion, if you truly hate somebody, the real 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.680 hate to fear is not one where somebody's like, oh 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.800 I hate you so much, you know, because that that 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.839 can be turned. That means that they have some sort 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.000 of emotional connection to you. The one to be afraid 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.960 of is the detached, calm, cool kind of hatred, because 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.120 that's the one where you end up dead somewhere, Like 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.240 I'm the Green River killer and I hate prostitutes. Well, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.760 that brings up an interesting sidebar, right, Um, do serial 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:29.400 killers hate their victims? No? End of side bar. Well 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.200 that they have long said that serial killers don't experience 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.000 emotion on that scale, but they're starting to uh to 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.240 change their thinking in certain cases because a lot of 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.880 serial killers suffer from antisocial personality disorder, and people who 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.120 suffer from that experience a range of emotions. So it's 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.880 not always I think it's it's both. You know that 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.360 not you can't say every serial killer is the same. Well, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.320 they've been saying that for a long time. They've been 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.480 trying to find the threads that connect them. And I 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.920 told you about the sociologists talked to. He was just 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.800 really up in arms that psychology has spent four decades 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.800 or so looking at serial killers, and the best they 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.680 come up with as any personal any social personality disorder. 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.320 He's like, of course they have a personality disorder, they're 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.480 serial killers. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. So back 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.480 to that study though about the brain and the difference 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.040 between love and hate. Um, they did see. Um a difference, 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.720 a key difference because the areas of the frontal cortex 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:30.320 associated with judgment and critical thinking become less active when 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.839 you see someone you love on the f m R 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.640 I machine, But when you saw someone you hate, most 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:42.400 of your frontal cortex cortex cortex is active, remains active. Yeah, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.920 so that's a big difference. But that makes sense as well, Chuck, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:46.760 because I mean, if you see I know, you don't 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.960 hate anybody, so you wouldn't understand this. But when you 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.720 see someone you hate, you like it's a personality law. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:57.720 You just you you you tend to criticize them in 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.480 your head, like, oh, you're wearing that swear. You look 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.599 so fat and stupid in that sweater. I hope you 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.160 somehow get did you strangle yourself on that sweater? Yeah? 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:08.920 So the point is that it takes like hatred as 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.679 an active thing. It's an active rumination on this. It's 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.560 not a knee jerk thing like when you might see 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.640 a picture of someone you love. All right, So that's interesting, right, 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.040 that's what that study came up with, the seven of 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.520 the seventeen people. Yeah, with this, Yeah, it couldn't get 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.520 you know. And the other problem is, I'm sure they 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:36.480 were um weird western educated, uh deed something rich and developed? 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.640 Care what the ice stands for? And what would you 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.160 just spell weird? It's basically like the idea that all 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.360 of these studies that sited are cited a lot of 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.160 them are They're just college kids. So it's like this 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:57.080 really narrow niche of the human population that they extrapolate onto. Ye. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.680 Good point, and in this case they just use seventeen 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.319 of them. Well, we're here to report it and then 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.360 criticize it, and we're done. We did both, that's right. Uh. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.040 What what's the deal with like old hate though? Like 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.760 don't they have some inclination of like early hate with 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.960 Caveman and the like? Well, yeah, because parts of the 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.360 you know, the closer to the center or the brain 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.520 stem that you get in the brain, the more ancient 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.640 that part of the brain is, and if there's a 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.520 region like the putamen that's associated with a certain thing 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.560 e g. Hate, then that means that hate's been around 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.320 for a very long time because they are part of 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.040 the brain. UH has been able to carry out that 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.040 function for this song or should ostensibly got you right, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.160 But then it's also new with the prefrontal cortex, which 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.440 is a fairly newer um aspect. So maybe we just hated, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.600 but we didn't criticize. We just hated. And they think 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:57.320 possibly that we developed hate as a species or a 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.600 capacity to hate as a serve love, a mechanism way 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:06.319 back in hunter gatherer days where we could feel justified 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:11.920 by say, taking food from another group because we hated him, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.839 which I actually found pretty that's a pretty inspiring idea. Yeah, 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:18.960 that you had to work up hate enough to go 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.120 in pillage. Yes, Okay, I think that's kind of neat 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:28.000 because it makes it seem like we aren't naturally hateful beings, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.840 and I don't think we are. I believe everybody has hate, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.600 and everyone has a vast capacity to hate, but I 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.240 don't I wouldn't characterize this as generally hateful. That's good. 0:14:40.600 --> 0:15:05.280 I'm kind of surprised here you say that it's true though? Alright, so, uh, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.320 it's in the Bible, Josh, It's an ancient text all 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.080 over the place. Hate's been around a long time. M Right. 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.560 Are we gonna talk about Carthage? Yeah, because I know 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:20.520 you love this, the Carthaginian general, Hannibal Carthaginian, and you 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:25.960 gotta stop that. Hannibal pledged to his father, Dad, I 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.200 hate Rome, I hate Romans. I don't like the Italians. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.880 I hate them forever, and I will swear retribution because 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.320 they have seized our provinces. He said, father, yes, son, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.360 I'm going to kill the Romans. And he did. He 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.600 made good on that, invaded Italy and did quite a 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.920 bit of damage. Of course, the Romans fired back because 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.720 they hate the Carthage. Why can't I say that word? 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:53.200 They hated people from Carthage and uh, in one PC 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.520 they did some pretty bad things like burning them in 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.240 their houses while they screamed. But is that hate? Like, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.360 I don't know, And that's a I think that's an 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.640 issue that I have um here there with this is 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.920 that there that's kind of a jump to conclusion, like 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.280 is it hate? I don't know? It does hate? Form 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.800 the basis for war or horrible acts in war. Well, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.360 I don't know, because it's it's condemned pretty much in 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.640 like the New Testament in the Bible, it's condemned in 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.800 the Koran. Uh, let not hatred of the people incite 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.920 you not to act equitably. And in uh medieval and 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.080 Renaissance Europe you came up in you. But in Italy 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.320 they came up with the vendetta, which is uh very 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:45.000 much retribution for hatred. There you go. I I let's see, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.880 that's what I'm saying. Like I think, let's say a 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.080 Roman soldier comes to your town while you're away using 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:56.920 the the latrine pit that your village has dug, and 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.440 they burn your family alive in your house while you're 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.880 using the bathroom. And you come back and you see 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.120 the Roman legions going away and your family is dead, 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.640 burned to crisps. Right. Um. I don't think the Romans 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:16.159 necessarily felt hatred to commit that act, but that act 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.760 would incite hatred in the person that it befell. So 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.640 I think of vendetta is an excellent example of hatred. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:29.240 Because somebody done, you're wrong, and you're gonna get back 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.720 at them. Or they did something to your father or 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.919 something you The vendetta is very long lasting from what 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.159 I understand. Yeah, and it's not. I mean, this is 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.800 obviously we're talking about mafia vendetta's and war vendetta's, but 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.199 it can happen on a smaller level. You might not 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.680 think of it as vendetta though, But if someone done 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.360 you really wrong and you're like, I'm gonna get that 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:53.119 person back by doing this in six months when they 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.280 least expect it, that's a vendetta. Yeah, but you you 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.280 don't call it a vendetta. It's just uh, well, in 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.440 in Italy, they it's just come up in sir um, 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.159 I'm gonna get you suck a Yeah, bad people do 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.159 that though. There was a word for it though in 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:14.200 medieval and Renaissance Europe, in the mess yeah, which is 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.199 Latin for un friendship. It was a legal term for 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.199 hating somebody. Okay, So what we've done is established that 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.320 hatred is definitely a thing that's been around a long time. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.840 Is that what we've done? Yeah, and chuck, of course 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:32.720 it's still around, um in recent modern history. There's other 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.840 examples that we could go into, like hate groups. Yeah, well, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.919 let's talk about the Nazis real quick, because again we 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.159 talked about fascism and one of the tenets of it being, um, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.960 I guess inciting other group to hate. Yeah, group hate. 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.280 That's that's where we are for sure, and a lot 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.080 of that. That gave a lot of a body of 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.440 data for people to study, and that they're still studying. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.000 But um one guy in particular named Martin Oppenheimer, who 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:08.960 is a sociologist from Rutgers University. UM it was basically said, like, look, 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.520 the Nazis are proof positive that you can, number one, 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.919 get an entire group to hate another group, and that 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:22.159 you do this by um identifying and exploiting the group 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:27.200 that you're with their frustrations, say unemployment, joblessness, and then 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.159 basically saying those are the people who are at fault. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.959 That's how you start the pot exactly. That's how you 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.480 incite hatred, which is gotta be one of the worst 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.520 things you can do. One of the worst non violent 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.400 acts I think a person commit is insite hatred. Yeah, 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.879 you know. Yeah. And also I thought what came to 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.320 mind to me when I was reading this was some 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.000 of these same tactics, like a marginalized people people who 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:55.159 are insecure, who are seeking safety somewhere. It's also the 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.119 kind of the same thing they do with the cults 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.560 and the brainwashing. They're seeking out these same types of 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.639 people and saying, hey, you feel marginalized, you feel like 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.440 you're not loved, you need a safe haven. But they're 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.200 not saying go hate someone else. They're saying, just come 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.679 and be with our group. Well, our our association of 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.440 like in group and out group is like this emotional 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.119 psychological razor blade that can be exploited in any number 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.520 of ways exactly, you know, but it's always a marginalized people. 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.040 It seems like, yeah, yeah, or there, But you mean 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.800 the people who are stirred, who have hatred stirred up 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.040 in them. Yeah, or go join a cult or something 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:38.320 like that. Yeah, you mean teenagers and uh well, as 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.320 Stanford study in two thousand and ten basically said, hey, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.760 if you want to um teach teenagers to hate, here's 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.439 how you do it. You can't just overtly say go 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:53.119 hate this group, you know, hate Muslims, hate black people, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:57.640 hate Jewish people, hate gays. You can't just say that 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.040 it's not good enough. But if you tell us story 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:06.080 that basically implies this is these are people you should 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:11.360 hate and here's why, right, like um, homosexuals or Petter asks, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.520 and so you know you can't let them into certain groups. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.119 And by the way, you should hate them because of 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:23.320 the story. Right then, I think that I had a 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.280 problem with that one because it was like, that's true 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.920 for everything. If you tell the story, it's gonna hit 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.760 home or personally into somebody. Yeah, you can't say, hey, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.920 go love uh Sea Biscuit because he ran a horse 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.199 race that was pretty neat. But if you tell the 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.600 story of Sea Biscuit, all of a sudden, you're gonna 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:41.960 leave that thing going. Man, I'm getting my butt to 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.720 the Kentucky Derby next year because I love me some 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.320 horse racing. I love Sea Biscuit. See you saw the movie, right, No, 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.800 I didn't um the But the funny thing is is 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.159 that that whole that study made the careers of two 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.000 standard researchers so right. But they do have a point 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.360 because they point out in this article or I don't, 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.960 but we do. Um D W. Griffith's awful um movie 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.600 awful on content. Birth of a Nation from nineteen fifteen. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.159 It's no Sea Biscuit. It's no sea biscuit. But it 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.479 did a really good job of getting people to hate 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.479 black people in the United States. Yeah, it doesn't it 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.639 feature like the well, since it was nineteen fifteen, it 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:23.800 is like the first and everything. But it's like the 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.560 first on screen rape, uh or implied rape. There was 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.600 a rape of a white woman by like an escaped slave, 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.240 I think by a white actor in black face of 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.840 course at the time, and um, it was a big, 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.399 huge movie. It grows ten million dollars in nineteen fifteen. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:46.400 That's like that's two that's two sixteen million dollars today 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.200 is what grows. Yeah. And it was based on a play, Yeah, 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.080 it is. It is based on a play in a 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:56.639 book called The Klansman. And d W. Griffith felt so 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.439 bad about this afterward that he made a follow up 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.760 film that you're called Intolerance, which was a three hour 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:10.119 silent film meditation on four parallel stories of man's intolerance 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.920 throughout history. Oh, I didn't know he did that. That's good, Yeah, 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.080 because I want to like the W. Griffith. Yeah, I 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.760 mean he didn't write Birth of the Nation, so he 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.280 directed it. Not like getting him off the hook or anything. 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.280 But I think at the time. He was just trying 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.360 to make a movie that sold a lot of tickets 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:30.639 and that was the way to do it. Yeah, that's 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.440 the way to do it. And then the Nazi. Of course, 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:39.040 anyone who saw Inglorious Bastards knows that Gebel's, Joseph Gebel's 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.520 was in charge of, you know, the propaganda department with 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.600 feature films, and they had one called Judge SEUs. Is 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:50.159 it Judge or you'd probably it'd be yourd SEUs. So 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.720 you're the one who speaks German. How did you say, 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.040 Judd Seuss? I don't know. I was concentrating on the 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:59.280 umlaut part and the SIUs. Okay, so yeah, be your sus. 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.439 But that featured a main character, a Jewish main character 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.280 who was shunned by a gentile woman and so he 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:10.399 raped her, oh yeah, among other things, and it was 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:14.520 required viewing for the Stormtroopers. Yeah, they loved it. And 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:18.159