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Speaker 1: The only way in and out was through a steel

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Speaker 1: trap door with a lock on the outside, in a

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Speaker 1: closet hidden under I think it was a dresser or something.

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Speaker 1: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You

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Speaker 1: would only know it was there if you knew it

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Speaker 1: was there.

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Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 2: change everything. This is part two of Donnielle's story. If

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Speaker 2: you haven't heard part one, you should go back and

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Speaker 2: listen to that first. Donielle Oliver Chauve woke up in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night on February eighth, twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents.

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Speaker 1: Something's happening and I have no idea why there's state

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Speaker 1: police in my house with a gunpoint at me. So

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Speaker 1: I think at that point they were suspecting me. They

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Speaker 1: thought I was involved, but a.

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Speaker 2: Suspect in what Danielle would soon find out. Chan Skipper,

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Speaker 2: her husband of nearly twenty years and the father of

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Speaker 2: their six children, hadn't come home that night. He said

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Speaker 2: he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police

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Speaker 2: were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking

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Speaker 2: if she had any hiding places in the house, and

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Speaker 2: most confusing of all, the police were asking about an

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Speaker 2: elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.

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Speaker 1: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where

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Speaker 1: is my husband?

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Speaker 2: The police wouldn't give her any information about what was

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Speaker 2: happening or why they were at her house, but it

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Speaker 2: was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The

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Speaker 2: police took her in and began a long interrogation.

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Speaker 1: I went into the interrogation room and they started asking

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Speaker 1: me questions. They asked me about this couple, and I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, that's a weird question, out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: Why would you ask me specifically about these people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we know them for sure, We've known them for a

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Speaker 1: long time.

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Speaker 2: They were also asking questions about the family's finances, questions

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Speaker 2: Donielle just didn't have the answers to.

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Speaker 1: I was shaking. I was just so confused, like why

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Speaker 1: are you asking me this? All I was worried about

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Speaker 1: was his safety, like if he was still alive. It

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Speaker 1: didn't even dawn on me that it could be what

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Speaker 1: it was.

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Speaker 2: After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She

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Speaker 2: went to a friend's house, where her kids were waiting

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Speaker 2: for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with

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Speaker 2: Chad without any reply. Then first thing the next morning,

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Speaker 2: her phone rang. It was Chad's father.

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Speaker 1: He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And

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Speaker 1: I said, no, do you? I said, I don't know anything.

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Speaker 1: If you know anything, just tell me what's going on,

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Speaker 1: because I need to know what's wrong with my husband

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Speaker 1: and where he is. And his dad just said there

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Speaker 1: was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped,

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Speaker 1: and the rumor is also that Chad did it. My

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Speaker 1: brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what, No,

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Speaker 1: that's impossible. This is Chad we're talking about? That rumor's

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Speaker 1: wrong And I was thinking, there's just no way that

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Speaker 1: it's actually my husband. I know my husband would never

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Speaker 1: do anything like this. That's not who he is.

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Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been

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Speaker 2: missing for three days. We're not saying their names because

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Speaker 2: Donielle wants to respect their privacy. Before this, they were friends,

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Speaker 2: and Donille believes that their story is their families to

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Speaker 2: tell just like her story is hers to tell, So

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Speaker 2: for this episode, she's going to call them his victims.

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Speaker 1: I had known them since I had met Chad. He

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Speaker 1: had known them since the time he was born because

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Speaker 1: they were part of his church. They were our Sunday

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Speaker 1: school teachers. We would often go over to their house

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it would have like a pool party. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it would be a Bible study. So we knew them

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Speaker 1: really well. They were amazing people.

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Speaker 2: The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had

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Speaker 2: walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check

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Speaker 2: for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from her own

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Speaker 2: savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman

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Speaker 2: slipped her note she was being held for ransom. Her

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Speaker 2: captor was waiting down the block with her husband in

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Speaker 2: the trunk. If she didn't return to the car with

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Speaker 2: the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband.

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Speaker 2: She needed to walk out of that bank check in hand,

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Speaker 2: so they gave it to her and let her go,

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Speaker 2: and as soon as she walked out of the door,

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Speaker 2: the teller called the police. That call initiated did a

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Speaker 2: state wide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor. Immediately,

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Speaker 2: it became the top story on the local news.

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Speaker 3: It all started just before five pm on Wednesday, when

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Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office received a call from First Trust in

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Speaker 3: Savings Bank in Albany.

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Speaker 4: Investigators are working with the FBI, state police, and local agencies.

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Speaker 4: It's a case, they say, that will shock this community.

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Speaker 2: The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the

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Speaker 2: dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately

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Speaker 2: trying to get in touch with her husband. She didn't

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Speaker 2: want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have

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Speaker 2: kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his

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Speaker 2: picture on the news.

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Speaker 1: My whole world up flipped upside down at that moment

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Speaker 1: when I saw his picture in the police update and

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Speaker 1: what he had done story.

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Speaker 2: In Whiteside County.

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Speaker 4: Investigators say they've never seen anything white like.

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Speaker 2: The man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie,

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Speaker 2: Illinois is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.

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Speaker 1: Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened

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Speaker 1: to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay

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Speaker 1: him three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. At that point,

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Speaker 1: all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's

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Speaker 1: where I just broke down and started crying my eyes

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Speaker 1: out and fell to the floor and was just didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do.

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Speaker 2: In that moment, she understood why the police woke her

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Speaker 2: up in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: When the police knocked out my door asking if I

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Speaker 1: had any hiding areas in the house. I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: were looking for the people that he abducted. They were

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Speaker 1: wanting to know if there was a place in that

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Speaker 1: house where they could be hidden. As far as they know,

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Speaker 1: I'm know where the kidnap victims are because I'm his wife.

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Speaker 1: I mean, most people would assume that the wife would know,

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Speaker 1: but I had no clue.

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Speaker 2: Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full

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Speaker 2: extent of her husband's horrifying crimes. This is what she learned.

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Speaker 1: A couple days before the police knocked out my door.

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Speaker 1: He must have gone to their home. I think that's

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Speaker 1: what the sledgehammer was for. To break into their home.

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Speaker 1: He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct

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Speaker 1: tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in

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Speaker 1: the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer

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Speaker 1: and that he was all dressed in black. And I

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Speaker 1: also heard that he broke into their home and sat

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Speaker 1: in their kitchen for several hours before going upstairs to

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Speaker 1: wake them.

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Speaker 2: He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom

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Speaker 2: where the elderly couple was sleeping.

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Speaker 1: He tased the guy and threatened his wife and then

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Speaker 1: said where is your God now? And took them from

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Speaker 1: their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to

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Speaker 1: get their clothes on. And I know that he had

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Speaker 1: told them that it wasn't just him, like he threatened them,

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Speaker 1: that it was like a group of people who were

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Speaker 1: doing this.

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Speaker 2: After the police showed up at the bank, they called

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Speaker 2: in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found

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Speaker 2: the couple's names in address. When they searched their home,

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Speaker 2: they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser,

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Speaker 2: and small drops of blood in the bedroom, but the

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Speaker 2: house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact,

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Speaker 2: by the time the police were alerted, no one had

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Speaker 2: heard from the couple In three days.

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Speaker 1: He had her call around and tell a false story

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Speaker 1: about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he

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Speaker 1: even took their car to the airport.

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Speaker 2: While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Donielle was at

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Speaker 2: home taking care of their kids, going about her business

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Speaker 2: just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently

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Speaker 2: kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.

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Speaker 2: But where was Chad and where was he holding the couple?

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Speaker 2: Donielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted,

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Speaker 2: they knew time was of the essence. They relied on

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Speaker 2: the FBI and state police to use all resources possible

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Speaker 2: to find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this

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Speaker 2: often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.

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Speaker 2: They were running out of time. With each passing hour,

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Speaker 2: the search grew increasingly urgent. Then the FBI got a

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Speaker 2: tip about a car match the description of the one

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Speaker 2: scene leaving the bank with the kidnap victims, a silver

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety Chevy Caprice. But Donielle didn't know anything about

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Speaker 2: a Chevy Caprice, so maybe they had the wrong guy.

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Speaker 2: The police tracked the car down, but when they went

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Speaker 2: to pull it over and the driver sped up. It

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Speaker 2: was all over the local news.

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Speaker 3: Around four thirty am, the car crashed here outside Port Byron.

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Speaker 4: We've tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and

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Speaker 4: they took off ed had ry to speed.

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Speaker 2: The police approached the crash vehicle and found that the

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Speaker 2: driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive

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Speaker 2: and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping.

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Speaker 2: Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad

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Speaker 2: alive in the trunk of his car, but no one

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Speaker 2: else was with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painters, tarps,

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Speaker 2: a saw, and a shovel. Now that Chad was arrested,

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Speaker 2: the only priority was finding the missing couple. There were

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Speaker 2: still a few places the police hadn't searched Chad's rental properties.

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Speaker 2: After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where

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Speaker 2: he said the couple was being held.

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Speaker 1: When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented,

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Speaker 1: like I thought people were in the house renting it

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Speaker 1: from us.

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Speaker 2: When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone.

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Speaker 2: The services were covered in sawdust and power tools. The

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Speaker 2: doors were taking off their hinges, and there was a

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Speaker 2: ladder in the middle of the living room, but it

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Speaker 2: also looked like someone had been squatting there. There was

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Speaker 2: trash everywhere, plates of happy eaten food, Electronic wires and

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Speaker 2: cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but

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Speaker 2: no one seemed to be in the house. Then they

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Speaker 2: double checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look

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Speaker 2: at a computer monitor laying on the floor. It appeared

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Speaker 2: to show a surveillance feed six live feed images of

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Speaker 2: a windowless room where two figures were lying on a

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Speaker 2: mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them

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Speaker 2: were hooks and shackles. There was a secret room somewhere

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Speaker 2: in this house, and Chad's victims were in there. The

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Speaker 2: night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his

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Speaker 2: rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon where he

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Speaker 2: was holding two people captive. From what they could see

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Speaker 2: on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere

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Speaker 2: in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't clear if they were alive, but then one

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Speaker 2: of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet

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Speaker 2: and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a

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Speaker 2: locked steel hatch.

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Speaker 1: And the only entry and exit to that dungeon room

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Speaker 1: was through a steel trap door with a lock on

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Speaker 1: the outside in a closet hidden under the dresser or something.

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Speaker 1: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You

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Speaker 1: would only know it was there if you knew it

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Speaker 1: was there.

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Speaker 2: Police used boltcutters to open the door. They found an

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Speaker 2: eight foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they

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Speaker 2: went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.

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Speaker 2: They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had

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Speaker 2: people watching their kids and grandkids, so if they tried

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Speaker 2: to escape or get help, he would kill them.

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Speaker 1: They were in that dungeon for a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine thinking that you're going to die,

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Speaker 1: thinking that your children are going to die, hooked up

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Speaker 1: on this thing, your hands up in the air for

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Speaker 1: so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand,

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Speaker 1: and having their kids and grandkids threatened.

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Speaker 2: Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what's he going to do? Go? Oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to let you go now, forgive me. Everything's fine.

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Speaker 1: How else could it end?

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Speaker 2: And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed

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Speaker 2: like he meant it. This what if still haunts daniel

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Speaker 2: Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, an

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Speaker 2: unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars Overnight,

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Speaker 2: Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband

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Speaker 2: of nearly two decades and the father of her children

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Speaker 2: was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing

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Speaker 2: that shock, she didn't understand why was it all for

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Speaker 2: the money.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm

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Speaker 1: a penny pincher, so I don't know where all the

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Speaker 1: money was going, and I don't know why he needed that.

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Speaker 2: To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There,

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Speaker 2: she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he

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Speaker 2: targeted the people he did.

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Speaker 1: He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew

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Speaker 1: how much they had in the bank because he had

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Speaker 1: asked them to be clients of his for his fake

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Speaker 1: financial business.

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Speaker 2: His fake financial business. She also found out that he

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Speaker 2: was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner, So

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Speaker 2: what did he do for a living? From what she

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00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 2: gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting

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Speaker 2: him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from

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Speaker 2: their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested,

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Speaker 2: his own parents sued him for stealing over four hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.

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Speaker 2: But not only did he steal from his own parents,

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Speaker 2: he also stole from his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: It was around that same amount, something like three hundred thousand.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from

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Speaker 1: his victims in order to repay the money that he

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Speaker 1: had stolen from his grandma.

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Speaker 2: He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle.

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Speaker 2: What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.

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Speaker 1: I found the plans and bills from it in his office.

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Speaker 2: Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon

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Speaker 2: piece by piece over the past two years.

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had

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Speaker 1: it been thousands upon thousands, and I don't think the

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Speaker 1: person who did it ever got paid Honestly.

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Speaker 2: The shocking fact that he built a dungeon to hold

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Speaker 2: the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines for months.

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Speaker 1: In a newsad exclusive Tonight, investigative reporter Chris Minor shows

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Speaker 1: us a photo of that actual room where it's believed

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Speaker 1: the couple was held against their will.

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Speaker 2: Danielle never slept another night in the big house that

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Speaker 2: she and Chad had shared with their kids.

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Speaker 1: I did not want the kids to be back in

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Speaker 1: the house, knowing that he had done that, knowing that

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Speaker 1: he was capable of kidnapping people that he's known for

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Speaker 1: his whole life. I didn't want them back into that house,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't want them in that house anymore.

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Speaker 2: She and her kids moved into her parents' home while

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Speaker 2: she got her bearings. For the first few months after

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Speaker 2: Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old

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Speaker 2: house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already

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Speaker 2: collected the evidence they needed, and she was left to

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Speaker 2: clean up the rest.

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Speaker 1: Every day that we went into his office, there was

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Speaker 1: another thing. Oh he lied about this next day. Oh

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00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,200
Speaker 1: he lied about that too. I remember at one point

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Speaker 1: we were both looking at each other on our way

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Speaker 1: to the house thinking, I wonder what else we're going

303
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Speaker 1: to find in his office today? What else could there be?

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Speaker 2: There was insurance fraud.

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Speaker 1: One of the things we found in his office was

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Speaker 1: that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost

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Speaker 1: and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding

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Speaker 1: ring he lied about.

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Speaker 2: There was credit card fraud.

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Speaker 1: He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name.

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Speaker 1: You've gotten credit cards in my name. He had forged

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Speaker 1: my name.

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Speaker 2: She also found lies about herself, stories she'd never heard before.

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Speaker 1: We found several papers that had conversations written down on

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Speaker 1: them that had lies about me as far as like

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Speaker 1: I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: or somewhere. It just you know, lies like that in

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Speaker 1: order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people

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Speaker 1: that he was talking to. There were just like conversations

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Speaker 1: written down on a piece of paper. Some of them

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00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: were to credit card companies because it was with credit

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Speaker 1: card stuff. Some of it was two different potential clients

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Speaker 1: that he was going to have.

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Speaker 2: And some things she discovered were just suspicious.

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Speaker 1: Hiking boots that he never wore, a wet suit that

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Speaker 1: was still wet and had a little bit of on

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Speaker 1: the cuff, and it's like he didn't never go scuba diving,

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Speaker 1: so why does he have a latsuits? And where would

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Speaker 1: he have used the wetsuit in the Mississippi River. You know,

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Speaker 1: just strange things that we never found an answer to.

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Speaker 2: One of the most haunting things she found in his

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00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone

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Speaker 2: in their family, policies she never knew existed.

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Speaker 1: He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids.

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Speaker 1: I think mine was a million and I think my

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00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes

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Speaker 1: with your mind really hard. I never felt like I

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Speaker 1: was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.

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Speaker 1: It was only after his arrest and when we started

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Speaker 1: going through this stuff in his office that I was like,

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Speaker 1: WHOA If I had confronted him about any of this stuff,

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Speaker 1: if I had known about it, I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would be here.

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Speaker 2: Donielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police

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Speaker 2: and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that the police told me is

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Speaker 1: that in all of their cases, they said they have

348
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Speaker 1: never come across a case that was so kind ride

349
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Speaker 1: with the amount of evidence for this guy, I was like, wow,

350
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Speaker 1: and he thought he was so smart.

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Speaker 2: She sent him one letter in jail where she said

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Speaker 2: she would be praying for him but needed to cut

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Speaker 2: off communication. After that, she filed for divorce, but letters

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00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: from Chad never stopped coming. Every few weeks there'd be

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Speaker 2: that distinctive envelope in their mailbox.

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Speaker 1: Every time I got a letter from him, my whole

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00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: body would just shake. I would get sweaty palms, hard

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Speaker 1: to breathe. But as soon as I saw the envelope,

359
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, not another one.

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Speaker 2: She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming.

361
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: But one day she got a letter that was different

362
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Speaker 2: from the others.

363
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed

364
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Speaker 1: as him. It was addressed as Eloisa May. And that

365
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 1: threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a

366
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: letter from that jail, but Eloisa May is kind of weird.

367
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: I don't know in Eloisa May. And there was no

368
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: like i'd return address. It was just the name. And

369
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: so when I opened it and it wasn't in his

370
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: writing either, I was thinking, Okay, that's weird too. There's

371
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Speaker 1: something off. The whole letter is written in this weird

372
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Speaker 1: southern accent. I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.

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Speaker 2: This is how the letter began.

374
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Speaker 1: How do you there, missye? My name is Eloise and May.

375
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Speaker 1: You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can

376
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Speaker 1: remedy that with this here letter.

377
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild

378
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: her life. That's when she began to get strange letters

379
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: in the mail. The return address just said the name

380
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: Eloise A.

381
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: May.

382
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: This is what the letters were about.

383
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: If this fake character who supposedly lives I think in

384
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her

385
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke and so

386
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: now she's in the hospital and she came across my

387
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: story and she starts telling me how her husband was

388
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Speaker 1: an alcoholic and at one point he physically abused her,

389
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Speaker 1: and so she left him and went to live with

390
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Speaker 1: his parents.

391
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: Finally, Chad or Eloisa Mae got to the point she.

392
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Speaker 1: Ended up deciding to get a divorce because you know,

393
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: she didn't want to do with his abusive, addictive issues.

394
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: Ended up killing himself and because of her decision to

395
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: get a divorce, her daughter and son are having issues

396
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: in their lives and they take the blame for him dying.

397
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: I felt like it was a threat. If you divorce me,

398
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill myself, and your kids are gonna

399
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: feel like it was their fault. That's the feeling I

400
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: got from the letter.

401
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: The letters were four or five six pages long, written

402
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: in a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's

403
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: at all. She assumed that either he was disguising his

404
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: handwriting or got someone in the jail to write it

405
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: for him while he dictated. Either way, the character Chad

406
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: was putting on was so transparently manipulative.

407
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: He didn't directly say how can you divorce me, but

408
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 1: through the character of Eloisa, may was basically saying that.

409
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: She suspects that he made the character Southern to try

410
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: to pull on Danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from

411
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: the South.

412
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: A little bit, he goes, I feel the Good Lord

413
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: telling me to do something, and I got a little eager.

414
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Danielle sugar and May I declare Darlin. That is one

415
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful and unique names I've ever heard.

416
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: Something we have in common, sweetie.

417
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to

418
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 2: try and make Danielle question her decisions.

419
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible

420
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of

421
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a

422
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: divorce but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.

423
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: The Eloisa May letters almost amused her, but they also

424
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: felt like an insult. Did he really think she would

425
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: fall for this?

426
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: I think he had a very very low opinion of

427
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: me or still does. I struggle with that with my

428
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: marriage too, because he treated me like a child.

429
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: She kept the alowise in May letters to remind herself

430
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 2: of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A

431
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty, but before he

432
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their

433
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: divorce trial.

434
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings.

435
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: He was pro se and so he questioned me on

436
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: the stand, which was really really nerve wreaking.

437
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: Danielle was awarded full custody, and shortly after she attended

438
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 2: her ex husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victim's statements.

439
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. There are

440
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: amazing people.

441
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 2: The judge was done by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation

442
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture

443
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 2: the victims injured.

444
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he

445
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society,

446
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: like it's heinous. You can't just do that type of

447
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: a crime and get away with it.

448
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 2: The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.

449
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: Today Chad Skipper, in a packed courtroom, listened as he

450
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: awaited his jail sentence, sixty years, the rest of his

451
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 3: life in prison.

452
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: I was thinking he was only going to get twenty years,

453
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: and so when it was sixty, I was surprised.

454
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and

455
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.

456
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.

457
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: I have a big, big problem with some of the

458
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness that every marriage, one

459
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: hundred percent of marriages can be resolved, and I was like,

460
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: that is very very untrue and very very dangerous to

461
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: say if there's an abuse happening, that's not true.

462
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Eerie, Illinois.

463
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: Chad's victims still live there too, and Donielle has seen

464
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: them around town.

465
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: I have seen them, Yeah, I've seen them, seen their kids.

466
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: You know. I smile at them when they see me.

467
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: I don't know if they recognize me or not. I

468
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: don't know if they see me when I see them.

469
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: I really don't know.

470
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the

471
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.

472
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't

473
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also

474
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: the police even said something about don't reach out, so've

475
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: I just kind of like took a step back. I

476
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: don't even know what their thoughts are towards me, if

477
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: they feel like I was part of it, or if

478
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: they know that I had no idea what was going on.

479
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I haven't reached out is

480
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: because I really don't want to cause them more pain.

481
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle

482
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: was in the dark about her husband's double life.

483
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: When you first was arrested, there were some posts on

484
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: Facebook about it. People were saying, oh, she knew, and

485
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.

486
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: Around town, She's noticed that people don't smile and wave

487
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: as much as they used to.

488
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything.

489
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a

490
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: small town sometimes you get looks, just kind of a

491
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: weird side look like I know who you are, don't

492
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: look at me, don't interact with me.

493
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing

494
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: who her husband actually was and what he was really

495
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: doing all those nights he claimed to be in the

496
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: basement working.

497
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of

498
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: himself to me. All I know is the life that

499
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.

500
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: He was able to do everything else completely separate. I

501
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: can't blind myself for something that he did without me knowing.

502
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: As part of her healing process, she's learned about people

503
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: like Chad and the tactics they use, tactics that felt

504
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 2: very familiar.

505
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: When I was doing my studies of narciss to behavior,

506
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: one of the things that really spoke to me was

507
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: a thing called word salad, and I totally was like, Yep,

508
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it was, just words that twist. Anything

509
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: that I said, he would twist it around and jumble

510
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: it up like a salad and then shoot it back

511
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: at me, And my mind would just be like, I

512
00:30:58,320 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: don't even know what's going on.

513
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: These kinds of things helped her understand how he had

514
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease

515
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: the self blame or the sense that she couldn't trust

516
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: anyone around her or even herself.

517
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: If my husband can pull the wool over my eyes

518
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person,

519
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: does that mean that this amazing person can also pull

520
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: the wool over my eyes? Like? What are they actually

521
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are

522
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: presenting to me as a loving brother, a loving friend?

523
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: But then when we are not in each other's presence,

524
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: are they somebody else? Like? Okay, this pastor seems like

525
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: he is everything that a pastor should be. But now

526
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: that I've been through what I've been through. Is he

527
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: who he says he is or is this just his

528
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: presentation of who he says he is.

529
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: For Donielle, trusting the wrong person building a life with

530
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: them left her all alone and a single parent.

531
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: All the weight of the responsibility is now mine because

532
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: I know I had six kids and I had to

533
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: support them. Now.

534
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: She found work as an online English tutor, and she

535
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.

536
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: My business is called knitting nicely but then nicely, spoke

537
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: with a kan. I'm really proud that I have a

538
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: business that I absolutely love and enjoy.

539
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: After her divorce, she decided that she was done with

540
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: romantic relationships.

541
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage

542
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church

543
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: or shopping holding hands, or I would see a post

544
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: about somebody celebrating an anniversary, it would kind of turn

545
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: my stomach. It just felt you to me because of

546
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: what I went through, you know, having trust in someone

547
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't want

548
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: to go through what I went through again. I didn't

549
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: want to put my kids through that again. So for me,

550
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I am going to do this

551
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: single mom thing and we're going to make it.

552
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: But then, but then she saw a post on Facebook

553
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 2: from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed

554
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: to her thirty years ago. They'd since drifted apart and

555
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: hadn't talked in nearly a decade, but in his post,

556
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: she saw that his fiance had recently passed away, so

557
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: she reached out to lend support.

558
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: We were just like being there for each other, you know.

559
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him

560
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: come out of the hole that I felt like he

561
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: was about to go into, just to have somebody to

562
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: talk to, to be able to laugh with. But then

563
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: the conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying

564
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: up all night talking over Messenger, and my daughter was

565
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: starting to say, who is this that you're talking to

566
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: all this time? And I think she knew before I

567
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: knew that I was starting to fall in love again.

568
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 2: Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call where they would

569
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: see each other for the first time in years.

570
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: And as soon as I saw his smiling face, I

571
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: knew that was that was it. I was going to

572
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: pursue that relationship for sure. The trust issue was not

573
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 1: even an issue in the situation because I had known

574
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: him from when I was a teenager. There wasn't that

575
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: is he really who he says he is? Question?

576
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: So they started dating again.

577
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: Both of us were like, this is weird. How could

578
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy two point zero.

579
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: After a few months of dating again, they got married

580
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.

581
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner

582
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: and dessert is when the wedding happened. Yeah, it was

583
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way.

584
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,

585
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: why did you want to tell your story?

586
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge

587
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: for people who have gone through stuff like that. That

588
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: was one of the main things that helped me. Knowing

589
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: that people have actually survived it and are happy again,

590
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: that was really huge. My main reason for wanting to

591
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: tell my story is to give people hope that even

592
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: though you may feel like your world is upside down

593
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: and it can never become upside up again, there is

594
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: a light at the tunnel. Maybe really tiny and small

595
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: might be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.

596
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Betrayal.

597
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: He said, yesterday I turned myself in.

598
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: And I will be going to prison.

599
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: And when he said the word prison, I about died.

600
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

601
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

602
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: us at betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

603
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support. One

604
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: way to show support is by subscribing to our show

605
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

606
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank

607
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 2: you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

608
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and

609
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by

610
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

611
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced

612
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlin Golden.

613
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica krinchech audio

614
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: editing and mixing, by Matts del Vecchio, additional editing support

615
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: from Nico Aruka. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music

616
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: library provided by myb Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,

617
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

618
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: your podcasts