Speaker 1: Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew, and welcome
Speaker 2: to another episode of Call It What It Is.
Speaker 3: Holy moly, I know there's a little pause here.
Speaker 2: We're talking about friendship breakups, a popular demand. I'm not
Speaker 2: a very popular but demand. Yeah, absolutely, people want to
Speaker 2: talk about it. I actually saw it as a sign
Speaker 2: of real trust because this one is something that actually,
Speaker 2: you know how like all the teenagers these days, if
Speaker 2: you if they offend you, at least mine when they
Speaker 2: offend you. When they offend you, they follow it up
Speaker 2: with like, it's not that deep, and you're like, actually,
Speaker 2: you just made it deeper. Yeah, And also it's up
Speaker 2: to me if it's deep, how would I how would
Speaker 2: I let you know? But that's the segue into this
Speaker 2: is deep. Friendship breakups I think are one of the
Speaker 2: most painful things you can possibly go through.
Speaker 4: They are so jess Yeah, So this is a lot
Speaker 4: of the College crew that've been writing us to talk
Speaker 4: with us.
Speaker 3: We've talked, we've kind of.
Speaker 4: Glossed over it a little bit before this is our
Speaker 4: deep dive into it. And so I spent you know,
Speaker 4: the past couple of days just too, we've been really
Speaker 4: researching it.
Speaker 3: We've been reading a lot of material on it and
Speaker 3: kind of all.
Speaker 2: Over the place, like for different different outlets with different perspectives,
Speaker 2: because I think it's sort of although I got to say,
Speaker 2: they all say the same thing.
Speaker 4: They do, but reading it, I was like shocked by
Speaker 4: some of the statistics and not shocked, but you know, like, oh,
Speaker 4: I can relate to some things that they're saying in it.
Speaker 4: And before we get into our personal stories, I think
Speaker 4: we talk about what, yeah, what people are saying out
Speaker 4: there in the world when they're writing about this.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think that the one that kind
Speaker 2: of took up both of our breath away was that
Speaker 2: according to a Forbes article, the research shows that up
Speaker 2: to seventy percent of close friendships and fifty two percent
Speaker 2: of our social networks, so multiple friends dissolve after seven years.
Speaker 3: That was really shocking to me. We hear about the
Speaker 3: seven year itch right with.
Speaker 2: Relationship or partnership?
Speaker 4: Yeah, seven years to me for a friendship. By the way,
Speaker 4: we're going on basically double high five to us, because
Speaker 4: like I mean, before Jess and I had this conversation
Speaker 4: before she got on, and I was like, I need
Speaker 4: you to understand, like you're never losing me. Like even
Speaker 4: if you do a Capshaw ghosting, it's like I'll be
Speaker 4: there like a stalker.
Speaker 2: Like you're gonna have to it's not a ghost this
Speaker 2: is a moonwalk. It's an elegant but it's not gonna
Speaker 2: work on me. No, I'm not shaking you.
Speaker 4: I won't take any hint. And it's like you are
Speaker 4: stuck with me for life.
Speaker 2: I'm a lifer. Yeah, I love it, I'll take it
Speaker 2: for life. But seven years. I think there's a reason
Speaker 2: for that. Why because I think seven years is usually
Speaker 2: how long it takes you to do that. Like the
Speaker 2: next you get to that next plateau, right, like you're
Speaker 2: in school and you're all doing the same thing, and
Speaker 2: you're you're in high school, even though it's not seven years,
Speaker 2: but it's you know, let's say middle school to high school,
Speaker 2: maybe college, and then get jobs afterwards, and it's like
Speaker 2: that's another probably seven years, and then you meet your
Speaker 2: person and you go through that next shift and then
Speaker 2: you're thinking about starting a family and you have a
Speaker 2: whole other set of you know, needs, places you're going, people,
Speaker 2: you're seeing ways you want to socialize. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think it probably shifts every seven years. So you're talking
Speaker 2: about the timing of friendships sort of dissolving times out
Speaker 2: with these big sort of life jumps that you end
Speaker 2: up doing. I would that's what that would be my guess.
Speaker 4: I think what's hard is that you expect friendships to
Speaker 4: grow with you and do the jumps with you, and
Speaker 4: finding out that they don't is really shocking. There's no
Speaker 4: friendship like especially when they feel like a sister's you know,
Speaker 4: like really deep. There's no ticking time clock on it,
Speaker 4: like potentially a romantic relationship.
Speaker 2: Plus in order for you to be in real relationship
Speaker 2: like the kind of friendships that we're talking about and
Speaker 2: that we see in movies and film and books, it
Speaker 2: is total surrender, right like you really truly just like
Speaker 2: in romance, and in a romantic relationship, you give your
Speaker 2: whole heart, You share your deepest, darkest secrets. They know
Speaker 2: you in a way that maybe no one else does,
Speaker 2: and there's such a vulnerability to that and such a
Speaker 2: and because of that vulnerability, you think, well, it can
Speaker 2: actually literally can never end because there couldn't possibly be
Speaker 2: someone who knows all of this about me walking around
Speaker 2: in the world that doesn't still feel tethered to me, Right,
Speaker 2: if we're no longer friends, if we no longer have
Speaker 2: that accountability and the circumstances in which we're showing up
Speaker 2: for each other, and they know all this about me,
Speaker 2: like not like not like not like holding it over
Speaker 2: your head, not like I'm I'm not suggesting that that
Speaker 2: person is, you know, somehow leveraging anything against you. I
Speaker 2: think it's just the intimacy of it. And then you
Speaker 2: don't have it anymore.
Speaker 4: Yes, Like you are being so vulnerable with that, with
Speaker 4: that kind of friend, and you are sort of like
Speaker 4: handing them your secrets and then but you assume that
Speaker 4: like they're going to hold them with you forever, and
Speaker 4: then they're not in your world anymore, and they're walking
Speaker 4: out in the world with like.
Speaker 3: A piece of you, is what it feels like.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. The trust is so huge. Yes.
Speaker 3: So I was also reading Wondermind, which is Selena Gumus's amazing,
Speaker 3: incredible website. Wonderminded a whole article on this, and one
Speaker 3: of the things I talked about that I thought was
Speaker 3: very interesting is and I'm going to quote it. Our
Speaker 3: culture doesn't have the same rituals or milestones at the
Speaker 3: end of a friendship like we do with significant others,
Speaker 3: like moving out with divorces, and so because of that,
Speaker 3: we find it harder to have that disconnect, like we
Speaker 3: basically like, we find it harder to move on because
Speaker 3: there's usually like you know, a breakup is like you
Speaker 3: move open, like yeah, yeah, yes, and so that leads
Speaker 3: to a longer period of grief. Basically, have you ever
Speaker 3: had any friendship breakups?
Speaker 2: I mean obviously you have, but yes, I'll talk about
Speaker 2: one or a handful, more than a handful, to be.
Speaker 4: Honest, There's only one that really really sticks out because
Speaker 4: I feel like the others sort of felt like a
Speaker 4: seven year and then the other friendships that I've had
Speaker 4: have lasted, right, I've been very lucky, Like my best
Speaker 4: friend since high school, I literally text her yesterday. My
Speaker 4: other best friends since high school, like we're still in contact.
Speaker 4: But one friendship I had in my twenties was a
Speaker 4: was a little over a seven year but but felt
Speaker 4: like that like felt like I handed all my secrets
Speaker 4: that was going to be my ride or die, right,
Speaker 4: Like that's the girl that I'm going to, you know,
Speaker 4: see through all the freight sphases of my life and really,
Speaker 4: you know, we.
Speaker 3: Lived together, we worked together.
Speaker 4: And the truth is basically she ended up dating a
Speaker 4: guy that you know about a year into their relationship
Speaker 4: did something that was you know, a little shady and
Speaker 4: or a lot shady, depending on who you talk to,
Speaker 4: And it wasn't at all. Yes, he did something that
Speaker 4: was not good, really not good. And did she tell
Speaker 4: you about it or did you find out about it?
Speaker 4: I found out about it. I was able to find
Speaker 4: out about it through do you know or were you
Speaker 4: the one that knew? A mutual friend of ours, part
Speaker 4: of our little girl group, found out about it and
Speaker 4: we had to sort of go to her and tell
Speaker 4: her that, hey, this thing happened.
Speaker 2: Oh that's actually that's worse.
Speaker 4: Yeah and so and by the way, like he was
Speaker 4: just not my vibe anyway I would describe him.
Speaker 3: I've described him before as.
Speaker 4: He's a little he was a little Biffy from Back
Speaker 4: to the Future. If you don't know Biff, yeah, you
Speaker 4: gotta research or people.
Speaker 2: I thought that there was only one Biff. There is.
Speaker 4: No Some people give off a little bit of a
Speaker 4: biff vibe, and he was a little biffy.
Speaker 2: I don't want to judge, but what person goes walks
Speaker 2: towards a biff You only walk away?
Speaker 3: Well, listen to moonwalk.
Speaker 2: You can flat out run listen, listen. Okay, Okay, I
Speaker 2: like in the biff vibe. I don't know.
Speaker 4: He was not my style. He was not he was
Speaker 4: not my He didn't give me good vibes. And especially
Speaker 4: after something happens. I think as a girl, you know,
Speaker 4: like if you're romantically voters on and you can like
Speaker 4: move on. But the girl, I'm the kind of a
Speaker 4: girlfriend that like, I sit back and I'm just I'm
Speaker 4: not gonna lean all the way in. I'm gonna make
Speaker 4: sure wait to make sure that you're like gonna have
Speaker 4: my girl right Like, I'm not giving it all to you.
Speaker 4: It's gonna take me really long time. I'm sagittarius. It's
Speaker 4: gonna take me a long time. Yeah, you need a minute,
Speaker 4: Yeah more than a minute.
Speaker 2: By the way, this is a good segue too, really quickly.
Speaker 2: There was only one time in our friendship where we
Speaker 2: were at work and something had gone down and and
Speaker 2: someone was kind of coming to have some words with
Speaker 2: me about something and I was kind of like that
Speaker 2: when you think you're in trouble and you get like anxious,
Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, no, no, I'm gonna take care
Speaker 2: of this, and I take care of this, and you
Speaker 2: were with me, and I kind of looked at you
Speaker 2: like Okay, go away, cause I got I gotta handle this,
Speaker 2: and you were like, oh, let me add him, let
Speaker 2: me add him.
Speaker 4: Like no, I was like, I was, I know exactly
Speaker 4: what you're talking about. And my feet were fully planted.
Speaker 4: I'm like, if you're going to talk to her, like
Speaker 4: if this is going to go down, I'm also going
Speaker 4: to be stood right here just to be you.
Speaker 3: Know, an HR witness to this basically.
Speaker 2: And then it's like cracking your knuckles, just waiting waiting.
Speaker 2: You were like I got.
Speaker 3: This, No I was.
Speaker 4: I was like, unless you give me the sign, which
Speaker 4: you did. It was very obvious, like I need you
Speaker 4: to scram I was not scramming. There's no scramming. Listen,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna stay right. So anyway, so this guy and
Speaker 4: to be honest, they're still together. They're you know, I know,
Speaker 4: they listen married, they are they're married, and they married to.
Speaker 3: Biff Listen, maybe this. Maybe the biff was a stage.
Speaker 4: Maybe he's you know, it's all turned around. It was
Speaker 4: giving me biff vibes back then.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, So.
Speaker 4: Me and her, this is not just me being crazy
Speaker 4: like your mutual friends of hers confide. But one night
Speaker 4: me and her guy, her boyfriend at the time, had
Speaker 4: gotten into an argument, a big argument, and it really
Speaker 4: killed it. It was just the friendship was sort of
Speaker 4: done because she had to pick.
Speaker 2: I mean, a better question would be, did it feel
Speaker 2: like she had to pick after you guys got into
Speaker 2: the fight.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess that's a question for her.
Speaker 4: I think what's hard from like the my end of
Speaker 4: the situation, I think this happens all the time.
Speaker 3: If you have if you're if your bestie is married or.
Speaker 4: With someone that you're like about, you kind of inherit
Speaker 4: the guy or the girl right like you inherit the person,
Speaker 4: and then it can it can be sticky. And so
Speaker 4: I don't know if she felt like she had to choose.
Speaker 3: Maybe she did.
Speaker 4: And it's and and by the way, it's kind of
Speaker 4: insulting when you're like, ah, this is like a two
Speaker 4: year or three year We've been best friends for like
Speaker 4: a decade, like what are you doing? But again I
Speaker 4: do think that, like romantic relationships often win out over
Speaker 4: a friendship, which is also like sometimes jarring. But it's
Speaker 4: my experience. I wouldn't have made her pick. The truth
Speaker 4: is it would have been hard for her because I
Speaker 4: didn't want to be around him. So it's like the
Speaker 4: fourth of July barbecue is like, did I really want
Speaker 4: this person in my house?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I thought it was rude. I thought it was kind
Speaker 3: of a jerk, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can't when you when you can't be
Speaker 2: honest with someone who you are intimate with and like again,
Speaker 2: has all your secrets, knows where all your bodies are? Yeah,
Speaker 2: where all the bodies are buried? You you really, I think,
Speaker 2: and be friends in that same way, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: like you and I can be very honest with each other.
Speaker 4: Like, yes, I'm gonna give an example. Oh no, this
Speaker 4: is Is it me being honest or you being honest? No,
Speaker 4: there's so many This is how honest?
Speaker 2: But I love that.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is one of the things I really
Speaker 4: treasure about us and hopefully you guys can hear it
Speaker 4: on this podcast. We like to be really, really honest
Speaker 4: with each other is something that we both really appreciated
Speaker 4: about each other, and it comes from a place of like,
Speaker 4: I have your back, I love you. You're like you know everything.
Speaker 4: And after drink the ball, I was just doing a
Speaker 4: sleepover Jess's house and we woke up and I was
Speaker 4: just gazing at the window and I was like, God,
Speaker 4: it's so BEAUTI look at this beautiful morning, drinking my
Speaker 4: cup of coffee, honestly minding my own business. And Jess
Speaker 4: was like, can I tell you something. Your hair is
Speaker 4: a little green. I was just looking at the birds.
Speaker 4: I was like what, and you were like, your blonde
Speaker 4: has a shade of garbage in it.
Speaker 3: I mean you didn't say.
Speaker 4: That, but that's that's some of the vibe, right, And
Speaker 4: I was like, cool, what do I do? And You're like, wow,
Speaker 4: I got this charcoal shampoo thing that I use and
Speaker 4: we got to figure that out. And I so appreciate
Speaker 4: it because some people would have looked at my garbage
Speaker 4: hair and not.
Speaker 2: Said anything, yeah a little Oscar, little Oscar the grouch hair,
Speaker 2: and not said anything.
Speaker 4: And I would have just been sitting there like a moron,
Speaker 4: drinking my coffee, being like the birds that sound cute,
Speaker 4: but I.
Speaker 2: Appreciate I appreciate that kind of honesty. I didn't point
Speaker 2: it out without having a solution. I mean that's also something, right.
Speaker 4: I mean, I still want you to point it out
Speaker 4: and just be like, we'll do some googling. But like,
Speaker 4: but you know what, not every friendship is like that.
Speaker 4: Can you could you have told other friends of yours
Speaker 4: that their hair looks like green? You gotta figure it out?
Speaker 2: No? No, not many, not many, not many? But you
Speaker 2: know what, that actually okay because so here's another thing
Speaker 2: that I was really thinking about when we were thinking
Speaker 2: about friendships. It's funny how we all socialize. But when
Speaker 2: we're in school, like elementary school and middle school, even college,
Speaker 2: we become it seems like we have a natural drift
Speaker 2: towards friend groups. Right, Like there's multiple friends hanging out,
Speaker 2: and that can be great because there's options, right, people
Speaker 2: get to like go off in twos or threes and
Speaker 2: you have a bigger group. But for me, I actually
Speaker 2: far prefer being a floater. I don't I'm not really
Speaker 2: like a friendship group person. I have, Like I have
Speaker 2: people who are you know, have been in my life
Speaker 2: for a really long time. And that I just value
Speaker 2: above all, and when they say something or when they're
Speaker 2: honest with me about something, I know that I can
Speaker 2: absolutely count on that advice or that perspective or that
Speaker 2: offering in a way that very very I think, just
Speaker 2: grounded and unique. And I think it's because I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not part of a group. There's no triangulating, don't.
Speaker 2: I think the friendship groups can be a little difficult
Speaker 2: because there's who's going off with who and who said
Speaker 2: what about who? And I think it can be a
Speaker 2: little bit more complicated. So I find that, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously we met in a bigger system of work, but
Speaker 2: then we really just we have our friendship and it's
Speaker 2: so specific to the chemistry that happens between you and I,
Speaker 2: and so when we're together, like we know what that's
Speaker 2: going to be. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I also, I mean I have to say, yes, we
Speaker 4: were part we were part of a bigger, you know, group,
Speaker 4: but it's also still work. It wasn't like a you know,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't consider that like a big friend group. There's
Speaker 4: an element of family dynamic there. But the two of
Speaker 4: us were for sure, you know, it was like that
Speaker 4: was my close clothes you were my close clothes. But
Speaker 4: I agree with you that I think it gets complicated,
Speaker 4: and it did for me in this situation I just
Speaker 4: talked about when you have that friendship group, right, because
Speaker 4: then you're being Then it becomes the dynamics of everybody
Speaker 4: else gets involved, right, everyone has an opinion. Everyone's sort
Speaker 4: of like, well, she did say this about you, and
Speaker 4: then you're like, wait, what are you? Yeah, hold your
Speaker 4: and then you can't say anything because you can't say
Speaker 4: anything because that's the friend that told you, and now
Speaker 4: you can't say that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I don't like that. That's what I don't like.
Speaker 2: I don't like that. I think that that is bullshit
Speaker 2: and it's not fun for me, and I don't like it.
Speaker 2: And it's funny. I actually I don't think i've ever
Speaker 2: said this to you before.
Speaker 3: I get low key jealous.
Speaker 2: Like I'm with if I'm with like if I'm with you,
Speaker 2: not jealous in a destructive way, but like you and
Speaker 2: I do a lot of stuff. Or we'll go out
Speaker 2: into the world and like we'll go to a conference
Speaker 2: or we'll go to a event or whatever whatever, and
Speaker 2: there'll be lots of people and I'm fine with that
Speaker 2: for a while, and then I'm like, okay, let needs
Speaker 2: to leave.
Speaker 3: I'm the same way.
Speaker 2: My social battery gets drained to zero, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: totally I need everyone else to leave.
Speaker 4: Okay, but I'm okay. This is why we're actually a
Speaker 4: terrible combination because there's a time. There was a time
Speaker 4: when Jess and I were supposed to go do something
Speaker 4: together and it was like a business situation, right, and
Speaker 4: we're sitting in this hotel room. I'm not gonna say
Speaker 4: where because it'll out that like the situation.
Speaker 3: And I was like, maybe we don't go. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: just we stay here and we go to dinner, and
Speaker 3: that's sort of the business situation we do.
Speaker 4: So yes, I my social body is not even I
Speaker 4: don't know if it's ever on.
Speaker 3: So when your dies, I'm like, yes, it's dead. Thank god,
Speaker 3: we're gone home.
Speaker 2: Yes, but those are But that's the That's the thing
Speaker 2: I think is so important about successful friendships, which would
Speaker 2: be the opposite of having to break up with someone.
Speaker 2: It's like you have little contracts, little agreements that you
Speaker 2: make with each other in friendship where you're like, okay,
Speaker 2: I can handle being out at this thing for I
Speaker 2: think I'm good for you know, a couple hours, and
Speaker 2: then I'm gonna look at you with like large eyeballs
Speaker 2: and be like I gotta go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's when I also, that's what I do
Speaker 4: appreciate about someone like you in my life is that
Speaker 4: it's not even eyeballs.
Speaker 3: It's like we will just turn to each other like
Speaker 3: I'm done, Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: There's no woods like I'm over it. There's another article
Speaker 4: too that I want to talk about. It says friendship
Speaker 4: breakups are incredibly common and normal and inevitable, but we
Speaker 4: often personalize it and see it as a failure because
Speaker 4: it is so unexpected and because it's so uncommonly spoken about.
Speaker 4: And I think that's true.
Speaker 2: I think it.
Speaker 4: Does feel like extremely shocking when a friendship ends and
Speaker 4: then it's your I think there's like a sense of
Speaker 4: self that you're like, wait, what, like that person was
Speaker 4: part of me?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? Like it's it's an
Speaker 4: identity crisis almost, I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: Because it also feels like a reflection on you, because
Speaker 2: if the relationship isn't successful, then it might be in
Speaker 2: part to you as well.
Speaker 4: Have you had that seven year that's like you think
Speaker 4: it's a ride or die and that it's ended.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, was it shocking to.
Speaker 2: You or did you?
Speaker 3: Were you okay to like let it go?
Speaker 4: It took me time to like be okay with it,
Speaker 4: and now I appreciate like what it was at the time,
Speaker 4: and I can reflect on it and be like, that
Speaker 4: was great. That's what we needed as a friends at
Speaker 4: the time. And now it's you know, it's done. Like
Speaker 4: I don't have any ill will about it, but it was.
Speaker 4: It took a long time.
Speaker 2: The only friendship breakups that I have in my life
Speaker 2: are sort of specific to there having been an event
Speaker 2: that caused the breakup. There's been less.
Speaker 4: Drift an event's hard though I almost I almost feel
Speaker 4: like the drift is better.
Speaker 2: Of course it is. It's far. But it's funny because
Speaker 2: I have reconnected. We've always stayed friends, but I reconnected
Speaker 2: with a college friend of mine, and the first time
Speaker 2: that we talked after not talking for a long time,
Speaker 2: we talked. I truly, I think we actually spoke on
Speaker 2: the phone for three hours. I mean, there's something about
Speaker 2: people who knew who've known you for that life.
Speaker 3: I know that they have all the story.
Speaker 2: They do just exactly like what I said, they have
Speaker 2: all the stories. Yeah, she remembers things that I actually don't.
Speaker 2: This is not shocking, but I mean it's which fun.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I think that sometimes the breakup
Speaker 2: breakups have been in friendship. Breakups in my life have
Speaker 2: been particularly painful because they've there's been an event where
Speaker 2: someone behaved, you know, myself included. There have been times
Speaker 2: where I did and said things that I was like
Speaker 2: what what? Who was that person? And you and you're
Speaker 2: and it sucks, It really sucks. It sucks when you
Speaker 2: when you're the one who's done the thing. It sucks
Speaker 2: when they've done the thing. I mean, it just it
Speaker 2: just is so so hard, and you kind of don't
Speaker 2: even know what to do with yourself anymore, because all
Speaker 2: your flight patterns usually depend on that friendship, right, Like
Speaker 2: you have this thing where you see them and you
Speaker 2: go here and maybe it's your favorite made me whatever
Speaker 2: it is. It's like either the cafe or the gym
Speaker 2: or the restaurant or the workplace, whatever it is. But
Speaker 2: like you, you don't usually stop intersecting, and you have
Speaker 2: to reckon with this division that is that feels so heavy.
Speaker 2: That's what I feel like, I was. The worst part
Speaker 2: is that that, like the term heavy hearted resonates for me, right,
Speaker 2: like my heart feels heavy when, yes, that kind of
Speaker 2: thing happens. I just it's hard to get out of it.
Speaker 2: That being said, you know, then you have kids, and
Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of friendship breakups happen when you
Speaker 2: have kids, because yeah, all of a sudden, they're the
Speaker 2: most important thing. It's true, It's true.
Speaker 4: I had I want to know your opinion on this
Speaker 4: because I told Matt that we were doing this podcast
Speaker 4: last night and it got on this on the subject
Speaker 4: of I think, but I might be wrong, and maybe
Speaker 4: this is how I feel. I think that in relationships,
Speaker 4: in romantic relationships, you give that person like a lot
Speaker 4: of chances, right like you're in a fight and it's
Speaker 4: you get you know, in friendships, no matter how close
Speaker 4: you are, I think friends get less chances to like
Speaker 4: get angry at each other in general.
Speaker 2: What's your hypothesis you think sex in our sex in
Speaker 2: our interrupts.
Speaker 3: I don't know what my hypothesis.
Speaker 4: I guess my hypothesis is that, like, you don't get
Speaker 4: as many roe bumps in a friendship as you do
Speaker 4: in a relationship, Like I feel like a relationship you
Speaker 4: get your get out of jail free card a lot
Speaker 4: more than friendships, and so they're a little more seven
Speaker 4: year like maybe likely to end abruptly. You're saying, like
Speaker 4: one thing happened, right, Like, I can't think of a
Speaker 4: relationship that I've had where like one thing happened and
Speaker 4: it was done. But I can think of friendships where
Speaker 4: like we never fought and now one thing happened and
Speaker 4: now it's kind of done.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: And I don't know why that is, And I don't
Speaker 4: even know if other people have that same opinion. I
Speaker 4: was just it was a conversation that we had last
Speaker 4: night that I was like, that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we expect more from our friendships, Isn't
Speaker 2: that crazy? I think we have a higher standard we do.
Speaker 2: Is that weird to say?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think that's weird, But I think that's
Speaker 3: very interesting.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I wonder why.
Speaker 4: So I read this article by Lilly dan Seger and
Speaker 4: l two talking about friendship breakups, and she had gone
Speaker 4: through a friendship breakup and then what she did is
Speaker 4: she threw together a quick survey and threw it out
Speaker 4: into the world thinking like, like have you experienced this?
Speaker 4: And she said the first weekend after she set this
Speaker 4: survey out on x one hundred and twenty five women
Speaker 4: responded with stories of betrayal and heartbreak and dramatic fallouts
Speaker 4: and all the things that come with a friendship breakup.
Speaker 4: And she was so blown away by not only the
Speaker 4: response fast, but how emotional responses were. One person wrote,
Speaker 4: there's an empty second half of the book where she
Speaker 4: and I should have been filling in the story together,
Speaker 4: And I think that that's a lot, that's a lot
Speaker 4: of how we feel. But also then she realized that
Speaker 4: almost ninety percent of respondent said that their friendship breakup
Speaker 4: was a big deal or a bigger deal than some
Speaker 4: or all of their past romantic breakups. And she says,
Speaker 4: she talks about how like in our culture, you know,
Speaker 4: we have this feeling of like socially we see like,
Speaker 4: you know, you break up and your girlfriends come over
Speaker 4: and you eat the ice cream, and you sort of know, like,
Speaker 4: you know, there's a little ritual around like getting over
Speaker 4: like that romantic breakup, and it just isn't there for
Speaker 4: a friend breakup, and so it does feel really isolating
Speaker 4: and you sort of don't know how to process it.
Speaker 4: There's not like that rallying and you know you're gonna
Speaker 4: watch the romantic you know, it's like very hard to
Speaker 4: get over it because socially we sort of like are like, wait,
Speaker 4: what the do I do?
Speaker 2: Now? How do I warn this? Yeah? I completely agree.
Speaker 2: There isn't that cultural rallying around someone who has broken
Speaker 2: up with a friend the way that there is when
Speaker 2: you've broken up with a romantic partner. I mean not
Speaker 2: that we should, you know, have pain be a competitive sport,
Speaker 2: but I do. I have found it far more painful
Speaker 2: to be broken up with as a friend than like
Speaker 2: the breaking up is hard because you know you have
Speaker 2: to do it and who wants to hurt anyone? Yeah,
Speaker 2: all that, But when you get broken up with, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's really only happened once, it's pain No, you
Speaker 2: know when it actually happened another time, it happened a
Speaker 2: second time, and it was really wild because you know,
Speaker 2: life is long. And I had a friend basically say
Speaker 2: I don't be friends with you anymore and okay, and
Speaker 2: then maybe two or three years later sent me an
Speaker 2: email that was like you know what, I really thought
Speaker 2: about it, and I think I acted too rashly and
Speaker 2: I really missed you. It was very kind, it was
Speaker 2: very sweet, but because they had broken up with me
Speaker 2: in a way that I really felt was orderline unkind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt a little bit like, you know.
Speaker 2: What, you put me in a time out and you
Speaker 2: like left me in my room and you forgot about me.
Speaker 2: You forgot to come and take me out of my
Speaker 2: time out. And now I'm in my room and I'm
Speaker 2: actually fine here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually decorated it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've decorated it. I feel like I buyed some
Speaker 2: friends over Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got new friends over here and we've opened
Speaker 4: a bottle of wine and cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah you're cool.
Speaker 2: I'm cool. But I'll look forward to running into you.
Speaker 3: Yes, I have to say.
Speaker 4: The friend that I broke that, well, I think it
Speaker 4: was kind of a mute to be honest, that this
Speaker 4: friendship ended with a few years later, I did write
Speaker 4: her and say like, hey, you know, like if you
Speaker 4: ever want to meet for coffee, because I was thinking
Speaker 4: in the moment, I was being nostalgic in the moment.
Speaker 3: Is the truth that I thought, like, maybe there's a.
Speaker 4: World in which like it's never going to be the same,
Speaker 4: but like we can we're both mommies now, like maybe
Speaker 4: they're you know, we both had sons around the same age,
Speaker 4: like maybe there's a world in which there's a new
Speaker 4: something there that can work. And then the truth is
Speaker 4: is that she canceled same day on the coffee and
Speaker 4: I wasn't even mad at it. I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know what, it's not meant to be, and I
Speaker 4: just I sort of needed I it confirmed something for me.
Speaker 4: And and now that that like feeling of like that
Speaker 4: question is like gone very much, so like it was like, okay, great,
Speaker 4: well this is yes, yes, yes, yes, And now that
Speaker 4: feeling of like wanting to meet up is like on
Speaker 4: you know, like that any of that question. But anyway,
Speaker 4: all these things are very difficult. They're very painful, and
Speaker 4: apparently all of us have experienced this and we just
Speaker 4: don't talk about it because it's it feels maybe embarrassing
Speaker 4: and awkward to be like.
Speaker 3: A lost a friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And in one of the articles I read, they said,
Speaker 4: like make sure you don't go to your mutual friends,
Speaker 4: like don't lean on your mutual friends, because sure, yes,
Speaker 4: but I kind of did that and it was not
Speaker 4: a good idea because you do end up hearing I know, but.
Speaker 2: What are you supposed to process it in a vacuum?
Speaker 2: I mean you can't.
Speaker 4: I mean I think that, like you, you process it
Speaker 4: hopefully with friends outside of outside of it. But sometimes
Speaker 4: the hard thing is is like your friends are all
Speaker 4: in it mm hmm, and it gets complicated and messy,
Speaker 4: and maybe you need to put lay down boundaries and
Speaker 4: be like, listen, I need to like say this, but
Speaker 4: I like I need you to be Switzerland for just
Speaker 4: a little bit.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think as we mature, whatever age that
Speaker 2: means for someone. But I think that there's the accountability pieces.
Speaker 2: If I knew then what I know now, how actually
Speaker 2: I'm I feel very I mean I don't want to
Speaker 2: get cocky, but I think I've gotten so much better
Speaker 2: if I've done something, or if I even think I've
Speaker 2: done something, I find it's so much easier to take accountability,
Speaker 2: to go to the person and be like, yes, oh
Speaker 2: you know what you said that you mentioned this thing
Speaker 2: and it made me think that you think I've done
Speaker 2: something that actually I didn't do. I forgot to do
Speaker 2: that thing and you think that like I'm so sorry,
Speaker 2: how and someone said this there data made so much
Speaker 2: sense to me. So often we try to work each
Speaker 2: other as opposed to work the problem or work the challenge,
Speaker 2: and it's it's sort of on the heels of that.
Speaker 2: You can't control anybody. You can't make someone think something
Speaker 2: or do something. All you can control is how you
Speaker 2: think and what you do. And so so really, when
Speaker 2: you're you know, trying to figure something out together, you can't.
Speaker 2: It's less successful to look at the other person and
Speaker 2: be like, you need to do this, you need to
Speaker 2: do that, you need to think differently. But more like,
Speaker 2: this is a situation we've been given. Here are the challenges.
Speaker 2: What are we going to do? What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2: What are my thoughts? How do I figure it out?
Speaker 3: No, I agree with that.
Speaker 4: I think I actually think having kids makes me has
Speaker 4: made me realize that I can own and apologize more
Speaker 4: because like you're kind of horrified sometimes parenting.
Speaker 2: Or at least I am where I'm like, damn, I.
Speaker 4: Really yelled, Like I gotta say, like that was a
Speaker 4: I took it to a ten and they were only
Speaker 4: at a five. You know, Yeah, like I'm the one
Speaker 4: that to get to the dam so I gotta say sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because you're the role model. Damn it.
Speaker 3: Parenting is so humbling, is the truth.
Speaker 2: But what we've talked about this before.
Speaker 4: I like it do over sometimes, yes, And I think
Speaker 4: a friendship do over like is so important to be like.
Speaker 4: I mean, I've definitely called a friend and said I'm
Speaker 4: so sorry, I'm so.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I said that.
Speaker 4: So you know, and I those are the friendships that
Speaker 4: really go the distance they do.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry I said your hair was green.
Speaker 3: No, I actually, by the way, it was like thinking.
Speaker 4: About it this morning and I'm like, can you you
Speaker 4: didn't text me the charcoal thing?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't want you to be sorry about it.
Speaker 2: I need you to figure fix it. Yeah yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: Well i'll get you. I'll get you after this. All right, Well,
Speaker 2: let's get into what the crew has written in.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, Emily says, my best friend lives hours away.
Speaker 4: What is your best advice for maintaining that friendship from afar?
Speaker 2: Hello, we have it. I have this friendship right now.
Speaker 2: Don't let distance ever derail you. I don't feel that
Speaker 2: I don't I really don't. I don't. I don't feel
Speaker 2: it does I I talk to my well again, I
Speaker 2: mean we're a particular time in our lives, right, we
Speaker 2: are very busy, so we are we are constantly like
Speaker 2: pinballing from thing to things. So I don't have a
Speaker 2: ton of time for real FaceTime, sit down time with
Speaker 2: my friends, like I can, you know, grab dinners here
Speaker 2: and there. But I'm not a lady who lunches, and
Speaker 2: I don't have I don't have time for that. And
Speaker 2: so I'm all on the phone. And you don't need
Speaker 2: to live near someone to be on the phone.
Speaker 4: I think that even I think one thing that we
Speaker 4: have gotten really good at is sometimes it's like just
Speaker 4: that two minute call. Mm. It like it and and
Speaker 4: it maintains that friendship. Or even sometimes I know that
Speaker 4: I don't have time to really even have a conversation,
Speaker 4: but I just need to get this one thing out.
Speaker 3: I'll send her a voice memo.
Speaker 4: And so I just think those little all those things
Speaker 4: add up so instead of thinking I can't you know,
Speaker 4: I don't have an hour to talk on the phone,
Speaker 4: it can be two minutes. It can just be like, hey,
Speaker 4: what's going on? How are you and I think that
Speaker 4: it all adds up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and also the texting, I'm pretty hilarious each
Speaker 2: other exactly. Yeah, Okay. Tara wrote in and said, my
Speaker 2: best friend stopped talking to me because I didn't buy
Speaker 2: her Taylor Swift tickets. How dare you? I did not
Speaker 2: feel guilty because the ticket demand price was insane. I
Speaker 2: don't think you should feel guilty, And I don't think
Speaker 2: she should have stopped talking to you because you didn't
Speaker 2: buy her Taylor Swift ticket. Also, I just.
Speaker 4: Think that, like you, it's not like Tara had.
Speaker 3: The one uh the one link to the ticket. It
Speaker 3: is ticket Master. Yeah, you can log on at any
Speaker 3: time you want to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you're mad at her for not buying you tickets.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Shannie said, how do I stop expecting new friendships
Speaker 4: to end bad after a past relationship breakup?
Speaker 2: I think that.
Speaker 4: Taking time to really examine why a past relationship breakup
Speaker 4: happened and sit on it really helps you move forward
Speaker 4: into new friendships and you kind of understand maybe where
Speaker 4: it imploded, and then you get to navigate new ones differently.
Speaker 2: Phoebe, how do you know it is only you that
Speaker 2: is keeping the friendship alive? And the other person is
Speaker 2: over it.
Speaker 4: Well, if they're doing it, Jessica Capshaw little ghosting, whatever
Speaker 4: she wants to call it, it's over. I mean, you
Speaker 4: can tell if somebody's natural it's a ghost. It's if
Speaker 4: a natural drift is happening. No, I think that like
Speaker 4: you're being drifted. It's if you're being drifted. Then you know,
Speaker 4: if someone's not putting in the same energy, that is
Speaker 4: also the mel Robbins. I mean, that's the thing. If
Speaker 4: people well, and you let.
Speaker 2: Them, and then you figure people want to do it,
Speaker 2: they're going to do it. Right. When people want to,
Speaker 2: they do. When they don't want to, they don't. So
Speaker 2: if someone's not doing what you would like for them
Speaker 2: to be doing, or not keeping up there under the friendship,
Speaker 2: then that's your information. I had this thing, Oh my gosh, sidebar.
Speaker 2: I remember in my early twenties dating. I dated this
Speaker 2: guy who was like a super player player, and I
Speaker 2: said to well, he ended up doing what he was
Speaker 2: meant to be doing and he was a player, and
Speaker 2: he cheated. And I went to my mom and.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, he cheated and she's
Speaker 1: like mm hmmm, And I said, but I don't Understan
Speaker 1: why because I told it, Like I told him if
Speaker 1: he was seeing other people, he could totally tell me
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: And she was like, just because you give someone permission
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, doesn't mean that they will
Speaker 2: like you're not in control, is basically what I gleaned
Speaker 2: from that interest.
Speaker 3: That's really good. I love that, right, Yes.
Speaker 4: Because you you feel like the permission is an invite
Speaker 4: that will be absolutely accepted because you've given it and
Speaker 4: it's not true.
Speaker 2: But again that would be assuming that you were in control.
Speaker 2: And Nope, yeah, not.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: I think that. I think that if you get a
Speaker 2: feeling that you're the only one keeping a friendship alive
Speaker 2: the friendships to have your answer and the other person
Speaker 2: is over it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not alive, is it?
Speaker 2: No, she's gone. It's not funny.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, I know, but it just sounded like
Speaker 4: a funeral, all of it. Yeah, it's a French of funeral.
Speaker 3: Okay, Lottie, I cut off cut.
Speaker 4: Off a toxic friend a year ago. I see her
Speaker 4: around a lot and can't move on.
Speaker 3: What do I do?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 4: I don't understand why you can't move on If she
Speaker 4: was toxic and you cut her off.
Speaker 3: I have questions about that.
Speaker 2: Because sometimes we can't quit these toxic people. There would
Speaker 2: be no television series, there would be no movies if
Speaker 2: we assumed the toxic people were easy to quit. I mean,
Speaker 2: do you remember that series that I was in the
Speaker 2: first season of Tell Me Lies? All Toxic Relationships?
Speaker 4: Yeah? But I mean I watch a lot of TV series,
Speaker 4: but I don't want to be in them.
Speaker 2: I love squid games, so I'd rather not play, did
Speaker 2: I I forgot to tell you this. I was a
Speaker 2: captive audience when I was getting my nails done the
Speaker 2: other day and they had the Desperate not Desperate Housewives,
Speaker 2: the Regular the what's the show you always wanted to watch? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Real Housewives, the one with Denny Richards and Kyle Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3: Kyle Richards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Holy, I know they are so mean.
Speaker 3: I know they're awful.
Speaker 2: No, they're so mean to each other.
Speaker 3: I know it's terrible.
Speaker 4: In fact, to be honest, I gotta tie you. We're
Speaker 4: sigebarring this, but you know what those shows are about, friendship.
Speaker 4: I had to stop watching because I got so invested
Speaker 4: and I wanted to throw stuff at my TV.
Speaker 3: Wait, who was on it. Wait, who was on this?
Speaker 2: Well, honestly, you couldn't make this stup. So I'm getting
Speaker 2: my nails done with Yesie and yes he and I
Speaker 2: are talking about this, that and the other. And she's like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put on the Housewives.
Speaker 3: Who the heck is?
Speaker 4: YESI you just said yes He? Like, oh, I know
Speaker 4: who that is?
Speaker 2: Yes, he does my nails.
Speaker 3: I know, but like you gotta sometimes you gotta like
Speaker 3: introduce the person.
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, yes Hei? And is your nail? Is your nail?
Speaker 3: Okay, that's my nails because I don't know who this is.
Speaker 4: Okay, you're good.
Speaker 3: We can move on. We can move on.
Speaker 2: So she is a projector and she puts shows up
Speaker 2: on the wall while you're getting your nails set.
Speaker 4: Oh I got like a movie theater.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind that like but also like during the holidays,
Speaker 2: we watched elf you know.
Speaker 3: We just we watched Different Cube.
Speaker 2: But yeah, tell me she's the best. I love you, Yesie.
Speaker 2: So she puts on Housewives and I said, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about this one. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know anything about the show. Which one is it?
Speaker 2: Like who are the characters? And she said, oh, this
Speaker 2: is the one with she named mom and she said
Speaker 2: Denise Richards. I said, oh my gosh, you want to
Speaker 2: know a fun fact, and she said what I said,
Speaker 2: Denise Richards was one of my really, really, really good friends.
Speaker 2: A whole lifetime ago. I'd done this movie called Valentine,
Speaker 2: which was a horror movie. It was didn't you go
Speaker 2: to the plant Boy Mansion with her? Yes?
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 2: We were a swat team members. Oh my god, I
Speaker 2: just yeah, I get a visual on that, because I'm
Speaker 2: sure I'm serious. Oh yeah, it's amazing. By the way,
Speaker 2: try and be Denise Richards plus one at the Playboy.
Speaker 2: No in matching costumes. No confidence that I had that
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have had.
Speaker 4: No, well you and know you had the blonde her brunette. No,
Speaker 4: I think it works. I think it worked.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it works. But anyways, so I say,
Speaker 2: I used to be very good friends with Denise Richards.
Speaker 2: And I go off on this whole thing because I'm
Speaker 2: not watching any of the show, and she's got the
Speaker 2: volume turned down, and I said, oh my gosh, Denise Richards,
Speaker 2: we had so much fun. You know, she's from Illinois,
Speaker 2: I'm from Missouri. She were like two Midwestern girls just
Speaker 2: out there in Los Angeles, and we had so much
Speaker 2: fun and I just adored her and she was so
Speaker 2: so so nice, and I just like Harti Gold. And
Speaker 2: then she met Charlie Sheen and she ended up getting
Speaker 2: married to Charlie Sheen and a little natural drift, a
Speaker 2: natural drift, she got married and there she was, you know, drifting, yes,
Speaker 2: And no sooner had I said that Denise Richards was
Speaker 2: the kindest, most lovely person ever than she turned up
Speaker 2: the volume and Denise Richards was talking to some other
Speaker 2: lady with long blonde hair, and I was like, don't
Speaker 2: talk about my fucking kids. And I was like, what
Speaker 2: can I tell you.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest. It could be there's a number
Speaker 4: of blondies. But I loved Denie switches on that show.
Speaker 2: And if she was.
Speaker 4: Saying it, I'm in her corner. She was bullied relentlessly
Speaker 4: for a season. It was horrible to watch. Let's get
Speaker 4: her on, you know what, We're gonna get her on.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm telling you again, I am telling you sweetest,
Speaker 2: kindest she is.
Speaker 3: And by the way, I loved her.
Speaker 2: The gloves were off, and of course I now my
Speaker 2: ears are perked up. So I'm listening to everything that
Speaker 2: they're saying, and I'm learning things because I haven't kept
Speaker 2: up on her life, but I'm now learning. This woman
Speaker 2: was so mean, that was being a that was being
Speaker 2: so mean to her, And she was talking about how
Speaker 2: which one of who makes more on OnlyFans.
Speaker 3: Ne're a couple of seasons behind.
Speaker 2: But they're sitting there and she's like drinking tea. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's real mean.
Speaker 3: Oh listen, I know it.
Speaker 2: That's not good friendship. Just as long as you're on
Speaker 2: the friendship.
Speaker 4: Well, we talked about a toxic friend I mean, these
Speaker 4: were the Housewives is all toxic friendships.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have them on. We'll talk about me, me
Speaker 2: and meanies.
Speaker 4: Okay, Wow we went really you know what, I'm okay
Speaker 4: with a Housewives sidebar.
Speaker 3: Okay, Camilla. A friend got mad.
Speaker 4: At me because I didn't invite her boyfriend to my
Speaker 4: birthday party.
Speaker 2: I never met him. Oh, I think you can give
Speaker 2: your friend a plus one for their boyfriend if.
Speaker 4: Everyone else has one. It depends how intimate it is.
Speaker 2: Just need to repair. Yeah, get that friend back, don't
Speaker 2: let that one go. Okay, Jenny says how to deal
Speaker 2: with someone having a new favorite person. Oh, like competitive friendships.
Speaker 3: That's hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw you on Instagram with some other friends.
Speaker 4: I know and you. I know that you think that
Speaker 4: I don't have any but to be honest, I've had
Speaker 4: to listen to you and Sasha. You will preface Sasha
Speaker 4: as your prest friend in the entire world more than
Speaker 4: any other friend. Ever.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, in all fairness, I did not post
Speaker 2: a picture like in the center of them wearing matching
Speaker 2: T shirts and like you know, out of the world.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, if you were here, you'd have a
Speaker 4: T shirt. This is a let them if they have
Speaker 4: a favorite new friend. Yeah, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4: You can't last owe them in. I mean it's hard,
Speaker 4: but you can be productive about and proactive about making
Speaker 4: sure that you carve out time and invite them to
Speaker 4: do things with you so that you feel like the
Speaker 4: friendship is still getting.
Speaker 2: You know, nurtured. Yeah, where you can be in competitive
Speaker 2: friendship mode and just do everything better than that other friend.
Speaker 3: Which is also another angle that we support. We were
Speaker 3: here on call what it is.
Speaker 2: Weren call what it is, Do what you need to do.
Speaker 3: If it's war of the roses.
Speaker 2: It's more of the roses. It's fun exactly right. Marnie
Speaker 2: wrote in and said, my family is friends with my
Speaker 2: ex best friend's family. Our friendship did not end great.
Speaker 2: Should I be upset with my family for still remaining friends?
Speaker 3: Why are they still friends with the family?
Speaker 2: It could be like one of those family things where
Speaker 2: you're literally like your friends or your families or friends,
Speaker 2: and then you become friends and then you kind of can't.
Speaker 4: You kind of untangle it's an untangled while. I would
Speaker 4: try telling your family that it's you feel like there's
Speaker 4: a loyalty situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or you let them and you're just not and
Speaker 2: then you let me you're just not there when they're
Speaker 2: all together.
Speaker 4: It might come across though, as as being okay with
Speaker 4: the behavior the friend, if the friend was not a
Speaker 4: great friend, that you were sort of like okay with it. M.
Speaker 4: It's tricky, M.
Speaker 2: We don't know. We need more information.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Kaitlyn. Can you recover from a friend breakup?
Speaker 4: Is that trust lost forever?
Speaker 2: I'm here to say no, I have had I have
Speaker 2: had some rocky roads with some friends. And then when
Speaker 2: it has when it's like when it's genuinely a deep
Speaker 2: relationship that you care a lot about. I have found
Speaker 2: my way back.
Speaker 3: It has changed it though for you.
Speaker 4: No, you can honestly find yourself like back without Oh
Speaker 4: that's good.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 3: I love that. There you can happen.
Speaker 4: Ella, Is there a way to stop feeling jealous when
Speaker 4: you see your ex friend with their new friends. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you don't need to see their I'm assuming you're seeing
Speaker 4: this on social media. You mute these accounts and you
Speaker 4: don't see it. Are you out in the world. I mean,
Speaker 4: that's just what happens with you want your friend ex
Speaker 4: friends to have other friends. It's still important for them,
Speaker 4: of course. But if you're seeing this on social there's
Speaker 4: a new button.
Speaker 2: I like me. It's a really very useful tool. Tracy
Speaker 2: wrote in and said she gossiped to my crush about me.
Speaker 2: I can't get over this.
Speaker 4: That feels like sabotage, betrayal. Yeah, that's a betrayal.
Speaker 3: You can't come back from it either.
Speaker 4: Next, Charlotte, my big friend group had a falling out
Speaker 4: and I wasn't involved.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is a good question.
Speaker 4: Now most of the group are not speaking and I
Speaker 4: I am feeling alone. I think, then you have to
Speaker 4: this sort of actually did happen with the with the
Speaker 4: friend group.
Speaker 3: This imploded me.
Speaker 4: My friend not being friends anymore imploded our friendship group.
Speaker 4: And there was a girl that is I've known forever
Speaker 4: since high school. I love her, and she was sort
Speaker 4: of in the middle of it, and she just has
Speaker 4: learned to have individual relationships with all of us. They
Speaker 4: are separate to each other even though we're not all
Speaker 4: friends anymore. So that's sort of what you have to
Speaker 4: end up having. You got to start doing individual friend dates. Yeah,
Speaker 4: big friend groups.
Speaker 2: I was just listening to her friend talk about how
Speaker 2: her daughter is in a nineteen what No, it's in
Speaker 2: a group, and I was like, that's a lot.
Speaker 3: That's not a friend group. That's a sorority.
Speaker 2: That's a school of fish. That's like, that's too many,
Speaker 2: Like you know, like one day, I.
Speaker 4: Don't even know how deep that is. That's not very deep.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also just like when something goes wrong, who
Speaker 2: he supposed to do? I don't know. Eighteen people mad
Speaker 2: at you that.
Speaker 3: It's so stressful.
Speaker 2: No, it's okay, okay, Tatum. I had a friend and
Speaker 2: a friend who fought with me on my birthday because
Speaker 2: she hates my other friend, and I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do. Yeah, because you're in between, you're in the
Speaker 2: tween m I think.
Speaker 4: What you do is you don't bring those two around
Speaker 4: each other, can't be in the same room.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Or I have friends, I actually really have had
Speaker 2: friends that just rub each other the wrong way.
Speaker 4: What happens when you all get them together?
Speaker 3: Do they play nice?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But again, well i'm the speaking given that we
Speaker 2: just talked about this, I am the opposite of a
Speaker 2: nineteen friend nineteen girlfriend group. I have, Like I have
Speaker 2: my close friends, and they're all from different parts of
Speaker 2: my life. And absolutely we could all sit at a
Speaker 2: table and it would be lovely. I mean I've had
Speaker 2: you know you and Ellie and I have sat down
Speaker 2: and I think you know you, and yes, there's almost
Speaker 2: instant chemistry because you share someone beloved.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the friendship circle gets way. The inner inner,
Speaker 4: the inner inner inner knows every part of you, gets
Speaker 4: so small. I mean I can count on one hand
Speaker 4: there's probably like three girls that really know all the things,
Speaker 4: including you, and I think that it works just fine.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: Caitlyn says, is it appropriate? To send your friend a
Speaker 4: happy birthday message if you no longer talk, yes, you
Speaker 4: think so always, even if it was kind of a
Speaker 4: rocky like little I think.
Speaker 2: I think there's dislike the person, like they did something
Speaker 2: truly heinous. But if you just don't talk anymore, and
Speaker 2: you might have done the natural the Jessica Capsule, natural Drift,
Speaker 2: the JC nd JC indeed, then absolutely you always you
Speaker 2: will always be happy that you reached out to someone
Speaker 2: on their birthday? Do you see how my birthday? Love
Speaker 2: just comes out? No matter what I think I know.
Speaker 4: But here's the thing. I think it comes with a disclaimer.
Speaker 4: I think you only send the message if you're also
Speaker 4: okay with that friend potentially striking up, like hey, do
Speaker 4: you want to grab coffee?
Speaker 2: Because if you're not.
Speaker 4: If you're just wanting to send the message to be
Speaker 4: nice but you're not actually interested in pursuing anything further,
Speaker 4: I think you don't because it can get sticky. But
Speaker 4: the person's like, hey, oh my god, thank you?
Speaker 3: What you want to grab coffee sometime?
Speaker 4: And you're like, no, oh, well if you have heard that, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: you're right. You gotta like it comes the disclaimer. You
Speaker 4: got to be open m all right, you know what
Speaker 4: this has.
Speaker 2: Taking me on a little walk down memory lane, all
Speaker 2: this friendship talk, and I have to say, I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't finish this topic without saying this. Friendships are
Speaker 2: so important mm hmm. And I think that that's why
Speaker 2: some of this cuts so deep for so many people,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people. I think that friends are
Speaker 2: chosen family. Yeah, and I don't know. It was an
Speaker 2: unnaturally long pause. I just took there.
Speaker 3: But no, I think, I know.
Speaker 4: I think it's I think it's so true, and I
Speaker 4: think that like I, I just want to tell the
Speaker 4: crew that I've had times when I've moved to cities
Speaker 4: and I've literally had no friends, like really like truly
Speaker 4: not known anybody.
Speaker 3: And it takes a minute.
Speaker 2: Did you go to the movies?
Speaker 4: I went to the movies by myself till I would
Speaker 4: also like sit at brunch by myself and watch the
Speaker 4: girls all laughing over like their bottomless mimosas, and I
Speaker 4: would be like so sad, like having their sex and
Speaker 4: the city moment and I'm like the table for one.
Speaker 4: But you can always, at any point in your life
Speaker 4: find a great, great friendship, and I think that's important
Speaker 4: to leave on me, even if you have to do
Speaker 4: some friendship break breakups and now you're alone and it's
Speaker 4: not a city mood. It's that you know you will
Speaker 4: find people and that makes you appreciate the people that's.
Speaker 2: Day in your world so much more. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: know what, sometimes you do have to you know, fresh
Speaker 2: first semester, freshman year. It where you just you you
Speaker 2: take what you can get.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, also I mean like you got to kiss
Speaker 4: a few froggies friendship style.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, the same thing.
Speaker 2: Even if you're doing that, you need to make sure
Speaker 2: that you don't, like you don't give away the keys
Speaker 2: to the kingdom to someone who you know is not
Speaker 2: you know, you should be you should be selective in friendship.
Speaker 2: You should be with people that really mean something to
Speaker 2: you and and that are willing to be in like
Speaker 2: a real relationship with you.
Speaker 3: And it should be easy.
Speaker 2: Yes, And my friendships just give me so much, like
Speaker 2: being friends with you gives me so much and I'm
Speaker 2: so grateful for it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but these things take time, and you know what,
Speaker 4: sometimes that person.
Speaker 2: Hates you, like I don't give to get but like
Speaker 2: that would have been a beautiful moment for you to
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, no, you too, I say ditto. Oh
Speaker 2: I didn't hear that. Sorry, Okay, friends, hey listen. By
Speaker 2: the way, I'd also like to tell you that while
Speaker 2: we're living in this day and age of parasocial relationships,
Speaker 2: I'm your friend. I'll be your friend. Let's be friends.
Speaker 2: I am so happy to have you with Camilla and I.
Speaker 2: And if you ever feel lonely or maybe you're in
Speaker 2: between friends or fill in the blank, you are our friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: This is this is why we call it the call
Speaker 4: it community, our friendship circle.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I believe in you. Yes, I believe in
Speaker 2: you too.
Speaker 4: All right, Okay, I think it's time to call
Speaker 3: It the end of the episode.