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Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 2: Hey vam. If you miss our conversation with doctor Jen

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Speaker 2: Ashton the first time around, well you are in for

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Speaker 2: a treat today because we are turning to the board

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Speaker 2: certified obgyn and former ABC News Chief Medical Correspondent to

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Speaker 2: answer just about every burning question you've had about menopause.

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Speaker 2: It's Friday, December twenty seventh.

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Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the

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Speaker 3: bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we

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Speaker 3: come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and

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Speaker 3: brighten your day.

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Speaker 2: Today we're giving doctor Jen Ashton and encore. She's a

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Speaker 2: double board certified physician in obstetrics and gynecology, and she's

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Speaker 2: been a trusted adviser on women's health to both patients

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Speaker 2: and viewers for years. You know her from her run

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Speaker 2: as ABC's Chief Medical correspondent and as co host of

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Speaker 2: Good Morning America.

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Speaker 3: She has literally been telling me what I need to

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Speaker 3: know since COVID. I started following her career actually during COVID,

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Speaker 3: and I watched so much of her coverage. She was

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Speaker 3: such a voice of reason, and I think she gave

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Speaker 3: so many people comfort during that time.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and in June, she left her work at ABC

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Speaker 2: to focus all of her attention on a brand new venture.

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Speaker 2: It's a new women's wellness company called Agenda. She launched

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Speaker 2: Agenda with a free newsletter that brings you a dose

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Speaker 2: of health news, wellness tips, and science backed resources straight

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Speaker 2: to your inbox. She launched Agenda with a free newsletter

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Speaker 2: that brings you a daily dose of health news, wellness tips,

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Speaker 2: and science backed resources with an emphasis on women's health

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Speaker 2: in menopause.

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Speaker 3: Yep, and we're diving into it all and of course

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Speaker 3: chatting menopause, what fitness regimen is best, what symptoms to

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Speaker 3: look out for, and why the best loob may be

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Speaker 3: on your grocery store shelves.

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Speaker 2: So let's bring her in, doctor Jen Ashton, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the bright Side. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be here with you. Guys, doctor Ashton.

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Speaker 3: You left your position at ABC to launch your new company, Agenda. Now,

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Speaker 3: to leave that position means that you must be very

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Speaker 3: passionate about women's health. Where does your commitment to menopause

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Speaker 3: education come from?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, thank you for

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Speaker 1: your kind words, but also for recognizing the magnitude of

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Speaker 1: that career and professional decision that I made because no

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Speaker 1: one gives up my position, you know, to do something else.

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Speaker 1: And I became a doctor because I wanted to help

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Speaker 1: people and have an impact. And I never in a

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Speaker 1: million years could have expected or dreamt that I would

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Speaker 1: reach millions and millions of people every single day with

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Speaker 1: the insight and analysis and perspective that has been my

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Speaker 1: job as chief medical correspondent at ABC. And in my mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way I'm hardwired is to wake up

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Speaker 1: every day and face a challenge and continue to push

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Speaker 1: boundaries and move the needle. And for me, I feel

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Speaker 1: that the needle needs to be moved in the fields

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Speaker 1: of women's health and obesity medicine, and that's why I

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Speaker 1: started Agenda, which is my free newsletter. But it's going

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Speaker 1: to be growing very very quickly to a whole digital

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Speaker 1: platform and multimedia kind of entity that can provide a

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Speaker 1: lot of important content and solutions for women. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited about it.

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Speaker 3: Simone and I have been in women's spaces, in particular

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Speaker 3: in the realm of journalism for years, and I think

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Speaker 3: we're both recognizing that the conversation on women's bodies and

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Speaker 3: research over the last few years is finally expanding. I

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Speaker 3: think in large part due to women like you who

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Speaker 3: are making it important to people. Why do you think

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Speaker 3: menopause just hasn't really been talked about in the cultural

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Speaker 3: zeitgeist until the last few years.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I think we can all do

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Speaker 1: like a stand in ovation that it finally is being

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Speaker 1: talked about, and there are a lot of great people

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Speaker 1: that are talking about it today. I just feel lucky

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Speaker 1: to be one of them. There's more than enough room

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people in this space, and so

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Speaker 1: we do need a lot of messengers and good communicators.

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Speaker 1: But I think that you know the reason it hasn't

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Speaker 1: had its moment until now, if you really want to know,

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Speaker 1: and I would love to hear your opinions on this,

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Speaker 1: I think it's because of the societal way that, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: women are viewed, which is largely as a passive kind

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Speaker 1: of victim and largely as just a human being with

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Speaker 1: reproductive currency.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the same goes for some non binary folks

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Speaker 2: and trans women too. There are so many factors when

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Speaker 2: it comes to why we haven't felt comfortable talking about menopause.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy we get to talk about this with you.

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Speaker 2: Because we want to get in to the nitty gritty

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Speaker 2: of the physiological processes that take place during menopause. So

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Speaker 2: what happens to our bodies during menopause and can you

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Speaker 2: break down those systems for us?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the short answer is our estrogen and progesterone go

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Speaker 1: right down the toilet and there are literally estrogen and

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Speaker 1: progesterone receptors all over our bodies head to toe, from

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Speaker 1: skin and hair follicles to our brain, to our heart,

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Speaker 1: to literally every organ system. And that can happen very suddenly.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a slow, peaceful, gradual walk off into

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Speaker 1: the sunset, and it can start. It can start in

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Speaker 1: a woman's mid thirties, mid thirties.

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Speaker 2: And that's perimenopause.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's perimenopause. I'm glad. I was sitting down for that,

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Speaker 1: doctor Ashton.

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Speaker 3: You had me I talk for a living and I

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Speaker 3: was a little speechless.

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Speaker 1: Well, I heard like a lot of sighing and deep breathing,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, are you okay?

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Speaker 2: I know, it took me a minute.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't respond at first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I kind of have kids, I know. And so that's like,

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Speaker 1: there's so much here and I think that when you

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Speaker 1: take that physiology and then you put that in an

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Speaker 1: arena or an environment where at baseline we know that

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Speaker 1: women tend to be taken less seriously by physicians. This

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Speaker 1: is just like the medical system and how we deal

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Speaker 1: with women, and by the way, also how we deal

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Speaker 1: with ourselves. Don't even get me started. I could give

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Speaker 1: you three examples of my own life where I've dismissed

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Speaker 1: and ignored and denied physical symptoms that I'm having. And

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Speaker 1: I'm a doctor for quite out, so like, this is

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Speaker 1: just what we do. And then when you realize the

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Speaker 1: actual physiology, you're like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned two key hormones, estrogen and progesterone. Both

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Speaker 2: of them play a pivotal role in reproduction. Can you

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Speaker 2: explain how these hormones factor into the lead up to menopause.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's complicated, right, It depends on the organ system

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Speaker 1: what the effects are. But you know it increases blood flow.

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Speaker 1: Let's just take estrogen to the skin right, or to

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Speaker 1: the vagina, to the vaginal mucosa, or to the skin

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Speaker 1: on your face, or to the hair follicles on your head.

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Speaker 1: It brings blood flow to the area and it makes

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Speaker 1: the tissue, whatever tissue you're talking about, stronger, more vibrant,

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Speaker 1: and in terms of the uterus, it stimulates the lining

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Speaker 1: of the uterus to receive a fertilized egg, and it

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Speaker 1: does that every single month, right, and then progesterone dilates

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Speaker 1: blood vessels. It's very important to the brain. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of the calming down hormone. It has a big action

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Speaker 1: in your GI tract in terms of gut motility. And

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Speaker 1: then we can't forget that our ovaries make fifty percent

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Speaker 1: five zero percent of the testosterone in our bodies. So

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Speaker 1: as we get closer and closer to menopause, and every woman,

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Speaker 1: and I literally I want to underscore, every woman will

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Speaker 1: start to say, what the hell is going on? I'm

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Speaker 1: gaining like this paunch in my belly and that that

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Speaker 1: could be one pound of paune or it could be

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Speaker 1: ten pounds of pounge, And the part of the reason

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Speaker 1: for that is that their testosterone level is dropping.

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Speaker 2: Evolutionarily speaking, what's the reason for the paunch? Is it

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Speaker 2: to protect the organs?

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Speaker 1: No, you know, that's a great question. I love the

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Speaker 1: way you're thinking about it, but we have to remember

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Speaker 1: that if you really look back to evolution, women didn't

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Speaker 1: live long enough to go through menopause.

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Speaker 2: WHOA does that mean that menopause is an adaptation that

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Speaker 2: we developed later on? Like? Where did menopause itself come from? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I am not I always

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Speaker 1: think it's a mark of a good doctor to say

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Speaker 1: what he or she knows and what they don't know.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not an evolutionary biologist. I would love to

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Speaker 1: interview one myself. And I love the way you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, because I agree with you it's incredibly cool

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Speaker 1: and interesting to ponder that. But human beings are among

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Speaker 1: the only species on Earth that go through that stop

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Speaker 1: ovulating and then continue to live a significant span of

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Speaker 1: their life. Most mammals can reproduce up until the point

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Speaker 1: that they die, Thank God, can't I mean, thanks God?

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Speaker 1: Literally get a little break there, yeah, I mean geez Okay,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, But the other thing, the other flip side

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Speaker 1: of your questioning, which I think is really really important,

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Speaker 1: is that you know, one hundred and one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty and two hundred years ago, quite literally, women didn't

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Speaker 1: live past menopause. Really right now, you could live to

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Speaker 1: one hundred right. My daughter is twenty four years old,

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Speaker 1: her life expectancy could easily be one hundred right, So

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Speaker 1: for her, if she goes through menopause at fifty, she

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Speaker 1: has half her life still ahead of her. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot about that second half that we just don't

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Speaker 1: have hundreds of years of scientific or evolutionary data on

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Speaker 1: which I think is exciting. But I also think we

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Speaker 1: need to recognize menopause is a life stage reserved for

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Speaker 1: the lucky few who are still living.

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Speaker 2: I love that framing. I love that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break, don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: We're back with doctor Jen Ashton. Let's get into some

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Speaker 2: of the more common symptoms of menopause, doctor Ashton, How

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Speaker 2: does our body tell us that we're in menopause? What

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Speaker 2: are some of the early signs.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, as I used to say to a

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Speaker 1: lot of my patients, the hallmark one is vaginal bleeding.

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Speaker 1: It's menstrual bleeding. And it could be irregular periods. And

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Speaker 1: that could be you know, longer, shorter, more irregular. It

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Speaker 1: could be literally any type of change from your baseline

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Speaker 1: bleeding pattern. Right, that's your hormones, like holding up a

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Speaker 1: sign saying hello, this is a perimenopausal symptom, and it's

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Speaker 1: so obvious because you're literally going to see it right.

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Speaker 1: The other ones, though, I think, are they may be

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Speaker 1: more common. They are probably more distressing on some level.

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Speaker 1: I know they were for me personally, and they are

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Speaker 1: almost always underrecognized, even by other medical professionals. And if

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Speaker 1: you start head to toe, that could literally be anxiety, depression,

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Speaker 1: emotional liability, brain fog, headaches. I mean change in your

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Speaker 1: hair on your head, thinning, more shedding of hair, more

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Speaker 1: breakage of hair, dry eye, dry mouth, like ringing in

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Speaker 1: your ears. I mean it literally could be head to

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Speaker 1: toe musculo skeletal discomfort. The hot flash, which is like

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Speaker 1: the most glorified menopausal symptom, doesn't always mean drenched sweat.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just a feeling of like heat that comes

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Speaker 1: right up from your core and like lasts for a

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Speaker 1: couple of seconds or minutes and then disappears.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I started getting random musculos skeletal ages, and I thought

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Speaker 1: it was just from working out, you know, hard or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't connect the dots on my own symptoms

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Speaker 1: until literally like a year ago. And I'm a board

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Speaker 1: certified guynecologist, so I think you can imagine if this

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Speaker 1: starts for a woman in her thirties, there's almost no

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Speaker 1: chance that her main healthcare provider is going to recognize

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Speaker 1: that these could be early perimenopausal symptoms. Can I ask

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Speaker 1: you a personal question, sure, how did you feel when

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Speaker 1: you started going through menopause? What was running through your mind?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: I actually, if I hadn't been so busy, I would

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Speaker 1: have thrown myself a menopause party. And I literally mean

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Speaker 1: that because I freaking hated my period so much.

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Speaker 2: But I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: Something that I didn't feel so good about is I

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Speaker 1: started to see literally visual changes in my skin, in

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Speaker 1: my hair, in my body that you know, we're not

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Speaker 1: fun to recognize. And I think it required a lot

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Speaker 1: of kind like self dialogue and saying, look, this is

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Speaker 1: a privilege that you're alive and going through this stage.

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Speaker 1: And then I really tried to actively connect the dots

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Speaker 1: between menopause and how I felt when I was pregnant

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Speaker 1: with my children, and I even tried to, you know,

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Speaker 1: retrieve some of the feelings of going through puberty. None

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Speaker 1: of those big stages are totally fun, right, Like, I

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Speaker 1: don't care what kind of pregnancy a woman has. There's

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Speaker 1: a time for every woman who's been pregnant where she's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like this is not pretty.

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Speaker 2: Did month nine right? Get this baby out? Month eight even? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like I'm done? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then also what you look like and feel like afterwards,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to engage in that nice self talk,

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Speaker 1: right like after you've had a baby, you have to

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Speaker 1: be like, Okay, you know, you just grew a human, like,

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Speaker 1: don't be such a perfect you know, like, and I

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Speaker 1: felt I had to draw on a lot of that

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Speaker 1: as I started to go through menopause too.

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Speaker 2: Positive self talk, reimagining it as a superpower as opposed

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Speaker 2: to a flaw. That's something that's wrong with your body,

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Speaker 2: for sure, totally we need you to tell it like

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Speaker 2: it is. On menopausal sex. Okay, we have come all right,

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Speaker 2: we have come to that point in the conversation, ladies.

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Speaker 2: So I love it. I've heard about vaginal dryness. I've

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Speaker 2: heard that menopause can cause discomfort and also a significant

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Speaker 2: impact on desire around sex. So what are some of

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Speaker 2: the common questions that you get asked about sexual health

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Speaker 2: in the years eating up to and during menopause.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's not so much a question. It's more statements,

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Speaker 1: and you hit the nails right on the head. It's

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Speaker 1: a statement of either I have no libido, and usually

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Speaker 1: that's a woman who's been in a monogamous relationship for

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Speaker 1: twenty or twenty five years, to which I say, like,

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Speaker 1: why are you shocked by that? That's not a normal,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not natural for two human beings to be

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Speaker 1: together for twenty five years. So first of all, recognize

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Speaker 1: that you've already done something that's you know, defies the norm,

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Speaker 1: and then be cut yourself some slack. I would start

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Speaker 1: from a position of saying like, yeah, of course I

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Speaker 1: don't have a libido. It's I've been with the same

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Speaker 1: person for twenty five years, right, So I think the

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Speaker 1: answer to that, other than get a divorce or have an.

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Speaker 2: Affair, is as their girls work, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Right, is to bring something new into the equation, because

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Speaker 1: that's the cure for boredom. Right, So you know, some

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Speaker 1: women find some relief with some testosterone supplementation. There is

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Speaker 1: an FDA approved libido medication for women that gives an

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Speaker 1: additional one satisfying sexual encounter a month. Personally, if that

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Speaker 1: is worth it for you, go for it. But I

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Speaker 1: don't consider that a big bang for the wood. Pardon

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Speaker 1: the pun. Literally one one additional.

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Speaker 2: It's almost insulting.

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Speaker 1: It is the vaginal dryness. We can cure and we

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Speaker 1: can address, whether it's with estrogen, whether it's with vaginal estrogen.

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Speaker 1: I always recommend literally pure from the grocery store aisle,

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Speaker 1: cooking oils as lubes, because.

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Speaker 2: Everything else like like cooking, yes, vegetable oil, canola oil,

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Speaker 2: coconut oil, olive oil, you better believe it.

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Speaker 1: The only thing is be careful of your sheets because

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Speaker 1: obviously it can stain your sheets, but it is safe.

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Speaker 1: And all the other lubricants, literally all of them, with

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Speaker 1: any chemical ingredient is like putting ice on a cracked driveway.

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Speaker 1: It will dry out your vagina ultimately, even if it

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Speaker 1: makes that initial encounter more comfortable, and it doesn't treat

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Speaker 1: the root cause, which is low estrogen, which makes the

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Speaker 1: vagina very sensitive and non pliable.

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Speaker 2: Did you know you can use coconut oil as lub

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I've heard of people using it in their hair.

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Speaker 3: But I have to tell you, doctor Ashton, not once

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Speaker 3: have we been taping this show where Simone and I

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Speaker 3: kind of casually look at each other like, whoa, oh.

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Speaker 2: You've blown our minds times over today. Oh good you

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Speaker 2: our minds, But I mission accomplished.

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Speaker 3: I want to actually ask about hormone therapy because this

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Speaker 3: is a big topic of conversation around people going through

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Speaker 3: menopause or perimenopause.

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Speaker 1: Do you recommend it? Yes? But here's what I want

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Speaker 1: to say about HRT. First of all, I take HRT myself.

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Speaker 1: I think the vast majority of women who are having

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Speaker 1: menopausal symptoms would benefit from hormone replacement therapy. It has

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Speaker 1: been demonized for the last twenty two years erroneously so

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Speaker 1: because of flawed data with the Women's Health Initiative and

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Speaker 1: flawed interpretation of that study that we're still doing the

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Speaker 1: cleanup on, and a lot of those initial kind of

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Speaker 1: findings have been retracted or disproven conclusively.

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Speaker 2: By the way.

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Speaker 1: So I think that you know, only four percent of

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Speaker 1: women who are suffering with menopausal symptoms in the United

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Speaker 1: States are prescribed hormonal therapy. Four Even if that became

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Speaker 1: forty percent, that would be a huge, huge improved men right.

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Speaker 1: But there are also non hormonal prescription medications that are

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Speaker 1: great options, and there are complementary medications or products. So

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Speaker 1: it's like a menu of options and it's not one

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Speaker 1: size fits all. And I think that women should just

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Speaker 1: keep educating themselves because a lot of doctors, unfortunately, are

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Speaker 1: not current in the medical literature and so they might

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Speaker 1: be anti hormone and they don't need to be.

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Speaker 3: We have to take another short break, but we'll be

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Speaker 3: back in just a minute.

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Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere, and we're back. I want to pivot

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Speaker 2: into fitness here for a second. I know that you

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Speaker 2: are a fitness girly as well, doctor Ashton, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I know that there are some thoughts out there

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Speaker 2: on hit workouts and women's bodies that it's potentially not

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Speaker 2: good for bodies. Do it anyways? I do it in moderation.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious if you think that there are any exercises

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Speaker 2: that we should be moving away from in as we're

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Speaker 2: moving towards perimenopause and menopause. How have you shifted your

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Speaker 2: fitness routine.

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Speaker 1: I love talking about fitness, so I'm so glad you

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Speaker 1: asked about it, and I've learned a lot about it

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Speaker 1: from talking to professional trainers. But yes, women should shift

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Speaker 1: how they work out the closer they get to menopause.

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Speaker 1: But they ideally should start doing that even in their thirties.

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: for so long I only did two types of workouts,

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Speaker 1: long cardio or weight training. Now they're both great, right,

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Speaker 1: but as you know, as someone who likes to work

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Speaker 1: out under the umbrella of cardio, there's zone two cardio,

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Speaker 1: there's endurance cardio, there's hit cardio, and they're all important.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I will say that if I had to say one

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Speaker 1: single most important fitness kind of tool that women even

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Speaker 1: in their thirties should start preparing their bodies for, it's

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Speaker 1: lifting weights and lifting heavy weights. You know, I have

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Speaker 1: the body I have today half because of my genetics

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Speaker 1: and of the other fifty percent, probably forty eight percent

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Speaker 1: of that is because I've lifted weights my entire life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, muscle. You prioritize muscle.

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Speaker 1: Muscle, Yeah, muscle, And I'm going for strength and I'm

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Speaker 1: going for power and to be vain by the way,

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Speaker 1: which you know we all have our vanity.

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Speaker 2: I certainly have plenty of it. This is a safe space,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 1: My goal is to have big muscles to hold up

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Speaker 1: the creepy skin. So, yeah, like when I go to

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Speaker 1: the gym, I pick up twenty pound dumbbells in each hand,

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Speaker 1: and I try to curl them as many times as

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Speaker 1: I can. And maybe that's four each, maybe that's five.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care, but I'm curling twenty pounds in

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Speaker 1: each hand.

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Speaker 2: I'm with you.

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Speaker 3: What are your thoughts on the support people receive from

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Speaker 3: family and friends and partners during menopause, because I've heard

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Speaker 3: you talk about how men need to be a part

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Speaker 3: of menopause.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, and it's something that has been missing from

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Speaker 1: this conversation so far. I've been wanting to write an

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Speaker 1: article for a long time called Menopause. It actually starts

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Speaker 1: with men Revolutionary. I need to know what you mean

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Speaker 1: because there are crickets when it comes to this conversation

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Speaker 1: that you don't see any male gynecologists talking about it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of them. Why why so quiet?

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Speaker 2: Great point?

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Speaker 1: Why so timid? Like you're either for women's health or

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Speaker 1: you're not. This is a big part of women's health.

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Speaker 1: If you're a man and you're an obgyn, why aren't

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Speaker 1: you talking about menopause?

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Speaker 2: Do you think they feel scared in this environment, like

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Speaker 2: they like it's not their story to tell? And maybe

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Speaker 2: we as women need to support, make them feel controversy

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Speaker 2: and empowered to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but again, this can't just be a one sided conversation.

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Speaker 1: This has to be everyone fill the boat, all hands

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Speaker 1: on deck, and not just because that's like smart pr

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Speaker 1: or smart optics. It's the right thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Can I add one more to the list. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: calling on Hollywood to give us our first menopausal action hero.

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Speaker 3: Oh interesting, I thought you were going to say rom com.

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Speaker 3: But I like action hero.

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Speaker 2: I want an action hero because I want to see

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Speaker 2: a strong ass woman who's going through menopause and who

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Speaker 2: is you know, lifting her weights in the gym. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. Maybe she's fighting crime, maybe she's maybe she's

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Speaker 2: fighting all the male.

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Speaker 1: Would be amazing. Yes, Marvel, Marvel goes my Yes. Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm working on that, ladies. I want to tell you

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Speaker 1: because part of agenda is developing television and media content,

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Speaker 1: and I will break the story on your podcast. But

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Speaker 1: I am pitching for development some both scripted and unscripted

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Speaker 1: in the menopause perimenopause space, and I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: it done. I mean, I am like, I'm not giving up.

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Speaker 3: You're the type of person and woman that when they

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Speaker 3: put their minds to something, it happens. So I have

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Speaker 3: no doubt. I'm excited to I'll be at the first screening.

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Speaker 3: Same Okay, awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for the

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Speaker 3: education and for talking with us today.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Ashton, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, you guys are great.

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Speaker 1: You guys are doing really great work and you're getting

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Speaker 1: not just good answers out to people, but you're asking

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Speaker 1: the right questions, which I think is super cool and

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Speaker 1: super important. Thank you for saying that.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Jen Ashton and is a physician, Emmy Award winning

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Speaker 2: journalist and the founder of Agenda. You can find her

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Speaker 2: on Instagram at doctor j Ashton. That's it for today's show.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back Monday with an encore of our conversation

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Speaker 3: with the Connie Chung. Listen and follow The bright Side

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Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 3: your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: The bright Side is a production of Hello.

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Speaker 3: Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon.

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Speaker 2: Production by Arcana Audio. Our producers are Jessica Wank, Krista Ripple,

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Speaker 2: and Amy Padula. Our senior producer is IT'SI Kintania and

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Speaker 2: our engineer is PJ. Shahamat.

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Speaker 3: Arcana's executive producers are Francis Harlowe and Abby Ruzika.

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Speaker 1: Arcana's head of production is Matt Schultz.

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Speaker 2: Natalie Tulluck and Maureen Polo are the executive producers for

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Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 3: Julia Weaver is supervising producer, and Ali Perry is the

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Speaker 3: executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Palazzola is our showrunner.

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Speaker 3: This week's episodes were recorded by Graham Gibson and Joel Morales.

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Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser.

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Speaker 3: Special thanks to Connell Byrne and Will Pearson.

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Speaker 2: I'm Simone Boyce. You can find me at Simone Boyce

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Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.

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Speaker 1: That's ro Ba y.

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Speaker 2: We'll see you Monday, y'all. Keep looking on the bright side.