WEBVTT - #535 Ben Bowlin with Reynaldo Munoz 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:07.800 On September eighth, nineteen eighty five, in Humble Park, Chicago, 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.600 sixteen year old Bernaldo Munoz got into a fight outside 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.840 a party round three am, and two of his friends, 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.640 Ivan Mina and Bobby Garcia broke it up. About an 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.919 hour later, Mena and Garcia were being rushed to the 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:30.320 hospital with gunshot wounds, but only Garcia survived. Unfortunately, he 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.839 could not describe the shooter. However, three weeks later, Disgrace 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.960 Chicago detectives showed Bobby Garcia one photo from which he 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.800 confidently identified someone whom he should have been able to 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.639 describe the night of the shooting. This is wrongful Conviction. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.760 Welcome back to wrongfol Conviction, where we have another story 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.720 about known corrupt detectives. We're talking about Rinaldo Gavara and 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:12.640 Ernest Halverson at a time when Halverson had another partner 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.000 and Gavara was still just an officer with the gang 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:22.280 Crimes Unit. However, their corrupt patterns and practices were already 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.360 present at this time. Today we are with another one 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:31.640 of their survivors, Rinaldo Munos Ray. Thanks for joining us today. 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.520 You're welcome, and to help tell this story, we have 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:41.080 a returning champion of these survivors, Jennifer Bonjean, welcome back. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.840 Thanks for having me so, Ray. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.600 Let's start with your life before all of this happened. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:48.400 Well. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.160 I was born in Chicago. I have two older sisters 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.080 and an older brother. I'm the youngest. My siblings were 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.160 born in Puerto Rico. I was born in Chicago. I 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.880 grew up basically middle My mom and dad worked very hard, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.720 sometimes two jobs to provide for us. My siblings were 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.520 straight A students. My brother has his own business. My 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.360 older sister she's a GC you know. My younger sister 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.519 has a certified CPA. She runs her tax business. Even myself, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.639 I just strayed the wrong direction. I grew up in 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.720 a humble park environment. Most of the neighborhoods there was 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.440 gang infestation, and my mom and dad they tried to 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.079 deter from that, so we had to move from neighborhood 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.240 to neighborhood to try to find somewhere better to live. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.720 But everywhere you go in a humble park there's gangs, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.160 so you had to deal with it. And sometimes guys 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.680 would pick on you and try to tell you what 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.760 you'd be or this or that, and then if you're 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.320 not on nothing. They didn't want to believe that. Sometimes 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.960 you would get jumped. Sometimes your life was in danger 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.320 because if you lived in one area and you were 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.720 not hooked up, then somebody else that lived in another 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.560 area they was hooked up. There was the opposition would say, oh, 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.880 this guy, he lives in neighborhood, he's a this or that. 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.120 If you lived on this block and it was a 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:05.880 Latin King block, you were a Latin King. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.800 Whether you were in it or whether you were not 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.040 in it, they didn't care. So it's like the innocent 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.320 always ended up paying the price. So when we moved 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.959 to where I got hooked up at, I got jumped 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.280 a couple of times over there, I got chased. So 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.040 then I started hanging out with the guys in the neighborhood, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.240 and then you know, I became hooked up with the 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:27.840 gang that I was with, you know. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:33.080 And that gang was called the Insane Unknowns. Unfortunately, as 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.640 we have seen through our coverage of other cases out 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:41.200 of Humboldt Park in particular, the Chicago police saw gang 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.160 affiliation very much the same way as the gangs did, so, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.840 regardless of anyone's actual involvement, if there was any involvement 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.520 at all, anybody and everyone could be lumped into the 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.800 gang that was active in their neighborhood. And at the 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.960 time of the investigation of this crime was penned on Ray, 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.400 there were already a number of incidents that police thought 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.600 were also associated with this gang. The Insane Unknowns. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.800 Yeah, they threw them in like three lineups. That's part 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:16.000 of the big problem is that even people who avoided 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:20.719 gang membership, if the police are already going to assume 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.960 you are in a gang by virtue of what block 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.320 you live on, These young Hispanic kids from Humble Park 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:31.520 and these outlying areas were fungible. They were interchangeable, and 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.599 that has to be incredibly demoralizing when you're already working 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.800 so hard to take a path that your parents want 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:40.919 you to in some cases, or that you know is 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.599 good for you, and you're getting it from all ends, 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.479 from the gang members in the community that are, like, 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.599 you know, either harassing you or just sometimes it was 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.640 about wanting to have friends, you know, because there was 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:58.640 so much gang activity that having friends sometimes meant associating 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.960 with gang members, and the police are going to assume 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:01.600 you are anyway. 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:06.640 So this is the context in which this investigation transpired 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.800 in the aftermath of a shooting that occurred around four 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.719 fifteen am on September eighth, nineteen eighty five. But let's 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.760 rewind to a few hours before, on the evening of 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:19.960 September seventh. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.359 Well, I was invited to this party. It was in 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.800 the neighborhood. It was the older gentleman. His wife was 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:27.720 throwing the party for him, and I was invited to 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.880 one of my friend's mother. So it was not again 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.520 related party. It was a family party. And my wife 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.320 today Wanda, she lived in the neighborhood, so she was 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.240 going to be at the party, so I was trying 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.800 to hook up with her. So I get to the party. 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.480 You know, they have live music, drinks and stuff and food. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.240 I had a couple of beers and then one of 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.240 the guys that was in the band started pass out drinks, 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.680 so he had like a trade and I went to 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.560 grab a beer and the guy started talking crazy and 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.840 I was like, okay, I'll buy my own beer. The 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.440 guy started talking shit, oh, I beat your ass and 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.360 all this and that. I'm like, listen, you're not gonna 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.279 do nothing, go about your business and leave me the 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.960 fuck alone. And I just brusted off. He kept running 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.360 his mouth, so I told my guy, I said, man, 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.359 let's go outside. I don't want to be arguing and 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.239 disrespecting these people's house. So we went to the front. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.000 I'm sitting down on the hood of a car. I 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.840 need my business talking to my guy, and the guy 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.240 comes around the back of the alley trying to snake me. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.400 So my guy's like, hey, watch out, so I jump 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.400 off the car. He comes at me. So I hit 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.080 the guy a couple of times and I come on 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.719 the ground. He gets back up. He's very drunk, so 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.200 he comes at me again and tries to wrestle me. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.600 I hit him a couple of times with an uppercut 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.039 and he falls again. I put my knee on his 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.120 chest and I say, listen, man, you're drunk. I said, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.000 take it easy, bro. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.640 And this fight happened around three am, over an hour 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.800 before the shooting. The only reason that this altercation is 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.200 relevant is this the two eventual shooting victims in this case, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.760 I haven't made it, I Bobby Guria. They helped break 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:02.400 the fight up. 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.760 So the two victims break me and the guy up, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.440 so they're like, are you okay? This and that I'm like, yeah, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.680 I'm good man, do this not He's the one that's 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.520 all drunk and started talking shit. I didn't even want 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.520 to start no trouble with. They're like, oh whatever. So 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.000 then the guy somebody else gives him a ride, so 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.040 as he's leaving, he's like, I'll be back, motherfucker. So 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.360 then he leaves. So we're there talking and then go 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.640 around the neighborhood trying to find some weed. Nobody was out, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.440 so then my guy's like, hey, I'm tired, I'm gonna 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.400 go home. I'm like all right. Then I proceeded to 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.920 walk to my house, which maybe about five minutes give 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.160 her take. So when I get to my house and 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.600 I'm like, hey, mom, i'm home, she starts telling me, Oh, 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.760 why you getting home so late? Oh, you smell like liquor. 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.000 I'm like, yeah, I had some beer and stuff, and 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.880 I went to my room and I went to sleep. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.040 And this is the same account that Rey has maintained 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.560 since nineteen eighty five that he was hold by three 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.160 thirty a up and then around four twenty am on 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.880 West Potomac Avenue, around the corner from the party, Bobby 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.000 Garcia was shot in the leg and Ivan Mana was 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:06.200 fatally shot. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.720 The way the evidence came in is that they go 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.800 to the car get some cigarettes and it does seem 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.480 that they were going to come back to the party 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.960 and on their way back, somebody is in the gangway 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:22.360 and Claire ambush, Ivan Mana is shot, Bobby Garcia is shot. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.280 Nine one one is called kind of almost immediately, and 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.840 within minutes of the shooting, there's a nine to one 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.560 one call from a woman who talks about seeing these 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.960 guys running to a silver Cadillac that might have been responsible. 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.480 She describes them, she gets like a plate number, and 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.839 the question of whether that is just a coincidence is Unfortunately, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.840 when detectives don't do good investigations, it's hard to really 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.960 know one way or the other. But that car was 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.080 pulled over, they were detained for a period of time, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:59.000 and the reports suggest that they were brought to the 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:04.200 hospital to be viewed by Bobby Garcia and that he 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:09.560 didn't identify them. However, we'd opposed one or two of 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.960 the guys that were in that car and they said 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.040 that they were never brought to Bobby Garcia or viewed 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:16.040 by Bobby Garcia. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.839 However, the reports that Jennifer just mentioned were not made 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.880 by the initial detectives on scene, Johnson and Jaglowski. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.640 And one thing I've noticed about these Area five cases 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.280 is that sometimes the detectives that went out to the scene, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.760 the initial field investigations, they seem to be the guys 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.520 that were not necessarily going to do the dirty work 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.920 that someone like Gavarro would do. So I have always 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.320 found that those initial reports, to the extent they are 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.920 reliable at all, they're the most reliable because those are 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.520 the guys that aren't going to come in and close 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.120 the case just on any kid. In any event, Bobby 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.800 Garcia told the first responding detectives he could not see 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.600 anything and could not provide a description, couldn't even say ethnicity, nothing. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.320 All the objective evidence that we have about the circumstances 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.040 of the shooting would not lead anyone to think that 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.800 Bobby Garcia, who is going to be focused of course 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.200 on his friend he's getting injured, that being able to 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.960 see the offender would have been very difficult. The offender 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.840 is like in some gangway shooting in the dark. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.600 The term gangway refers to the narrow walkways between houses 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.240 and the shooter's obscured vantage point is supported by the 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.079 bullets having traveled from right to left, and it appears 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.679 that after questioning folks who had been at the party, 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.320 the police had heard about this fight between the guy 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.440 from the band and Ray, whose nickname was Scoopy. They 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.080 had also heard that Ivan and Bobby had broken this 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:46.600 fight up. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.880 Listen, that's a reasonable lead to explore. You know, you 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.199 hear about a fight at the party, maybe that could 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.600 potentially be a motive. Let's go check it out. 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.760 The following day, some police come and pick me up 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.360 and start questioning about the party. So I'm like, yeah, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:02.920 I went to the party. I told him I had 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:04.760 to fight. Yeah, I don't have I didn't have anything 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:05.240 to hide. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.439 And Ray's like, yeah, Bobby and Ivan split us up. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.200 I don't have any beef with Bobby or Ivan. Like 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.959 the fight was with someone totally different. So they bring 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:14.520 him back home. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.880 So it seems that Ray's story checked out for Johnson 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.640 and Jawlowski, But then Ernest Halverson and his partner at 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.400 the time, Edwin Dickinson, took over along with at that 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.080 time Gain Crimes Unit officer Rinaldo Gulvara, and what. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.839 I suspect, in keeping with their pattern is that they 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.800 look at the reports and instead of just sort of 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.840 starting from scratch, they're just like, ah, who seems like 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.280 you know someone we can put this on that's already 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.920 in the reports. And they figure out that there's this 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.640 fight between one of the guys in the band and 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:56.600 Scooby and Ray. Shortly before he is arrested, he's walking 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.600 down the street and Govera picks him up and doesn't 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.320 realize he is Scooby. He throws him in the back 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.280 seat of his car and says, listen, I'm looking for 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.960 a guy named Snake Scooby. Uh g man. He doesn't 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.800 realize he has Scooby. Gavera knows all the gang members 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.720 right in these neighborhoods. The fact that he doesn't know 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.040 Ray tells you that Ray is not someone who is 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:29.040 very active. And Ray obviously does not say, oh, hey, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:29.920 I'm Scooby. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.520 So Gavera proceeded to ask me about myself and two 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.120 other guys, and I told him I didn't know those guys. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.000 I didn't know who you were talking about. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.760 And Gavara is like, oh really like socks him in 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.520 the face in the back seat of his car. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.600 He gave me. You know, he slagged me and my mom. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.160 I see, He's like, you're gonna tell me what I 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:48.520 want to know or what else? 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.640 They take him to Rival gang Territory. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.640 He took me out. There was a bunch of Imperial 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.400 gangsters out there. Then he uncuffed one of my hands. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.000 He had the other cuff and he's like, tell me 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:00.400 what I want to know. I'm going to feed you 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.600 to the dogs. I said, man, I don't know anything. 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.520 A couple of the guys that were there, they started 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.000 spitting on me and some of them got sucker punches 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.480 behind my head. All I was worried about if he 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.480 did let me go, which way was I going to 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.600 run to try to get away? And they're like, you know, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.200 you think I'm playing with you. I'm like, man, I 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:17.960 told you I don't know any of those guys. So 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.320 then I called his bluff. He put the cuff back 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.720 on me, put me back in the car, took me 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.560 back to where he picked me up, and told me 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:41.520 tell Scooby Snake and gee Man, I'm looking for them. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.400 You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.160 and all the lava for Good Podcasts one week early 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.600 and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.040 on Apple Podcasts. 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.400 Somewhere between hanging Ray out of the car on September 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.920 tenth and raise later arrest on September twenty sixth, Gavarro 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.320 found out that he had had Scooby in his car 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:14.640 and unwittingly let him go. Meanwhile, viable leads were still 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:15.200 coming in. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.240 About three weeks after the shooting, There's a nine to 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.640 one to one call that comes in another one and 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.160 someone says, there are these guys hanging out in the neighborhood. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.280 The guy that did the shooting is hanging out on 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.640 this block. Gives a description, nicknames, and the police show up, 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.320 find the guys, bring them to the twenty fifth district, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.240 which is that area five. So they called Barby Garcia 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:40.720 and they say, we want you to come down to 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.560 Area five and look at a lineup. According to Helverson, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.440 Bobby Garcia says, no, I don't need to come look 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:52.280 at a lineup. Actually, it's Ray Munos that did this. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.200 I know I didn't tell you that before, but I 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.200 was scared for some reason which we don't know why. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.400 Never explains it What's crazy about that is what was 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.600 he just waiting for the police to randomly call him 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.120 one day to tell what he knew that who killed 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.480 his friend? It made it made no sense. But Halverson 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:15.160 chose a polaroid of Ray Munos and Bobby Garcia says, yeah, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:16.440 I know who Scooby is. 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:21.080 So Ray was arrested for murder and attempted murder at 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:22.160 the age of sixteen. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.800 H I think about these parents a lot. They were 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.880 not English speakers. Can you imagine trying to navigate a system. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.840 They would go down to the police station, They're told 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.560 their son isn't there. They're sent to another police station. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:36.840 They're given the run around. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:42.000 He is a child, and their child was being moved around. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.160 After all, he was from the insane Unknown's territory, so 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.480 he was sent over to the gang crimes unit. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.880 When I was tranferred to Beaumont and Western, Gavera was there. 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.240 He said schoolviyeh. So they're already put this murder. I 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.200 mean when they try for me to Baumont and Western, 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.720 they put me in another lineup for another murder and 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520 three up tent murders. It was an unknowns that did 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.960 that murders and those three attent murders, so they were 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.720 trying to say, he's all known, let's put this other 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:11.040 murder on him too, fuck him. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.360 But he was only identified for the one incident by 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.720 Bobby Garcia. All of which begs the question, how does 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.040 Bobby flip from not being able to describe a shooter 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.720 to yes, it's definitely this sixteen year old Ray Munos, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.320 who we knew from the neighborhood. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:27.840 Yeah. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.320 I mean Bobby Garcia is deceased, so you know, we're 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.000 piecing this together a little bit. But Garcia knew who 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.680 Ray Munos was, a sixteen year old kid. It was 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.160 never credible that Bobby Garcia was afraid to tell anybody. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.400 It made no sense. It's our belief that, consistent with 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.560 the long pattern and practice of these detectives, that they 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.560 probably told Garcia. Listen, we know who did it. The 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.360 streets are talking. We know it was Scooby. I've been 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.600 doing these cases a really long time, and what I 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.600 have found over and over again that people, when they 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.280 see their friends shot down dead in front of them, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.800 they want to believe the police. They want to know 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.879 that the perpetrator has been caught. And sometimes they're willing 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.120 to go along with what the police are telling them, 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.800 even though they never saw anything. I would also point 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.280 out that there is some suggestion that Bobby Garcia was 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.720 in a gang, and there's a certain level of coercion 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.600 and fear that you don't go along and help me 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:32.439 out with closing this case. Your next buddy. He ultimately 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.719 identifies Ray Munos. But Ray made bond. I mean, his 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.280 family pulled together every bit of money they could from 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.879 other family members. Again, this was a family that was 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.000 truly committed, believed in his innocence, and knew he was innocent. 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.600 So Ray was out on bond from late September nineteen 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.159 eighty five until his trial that following November. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.239 I had two States attorney on my case, and they 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.280 were so keen to get rid of me that they 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.080 did my t on Thanksgiving Day, November twenty fifth of 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.880 nineteen eighty six and found me guilty within two hours. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.879 Bobby had tried testified against me and said that they 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.679 had went to Ivan's car and as they were coming 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.320 back from retrieving the cigarettes, and as they were going 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.080 back towards the party towards se Keiler on Potomac, he 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.600 said I was crunched down and he pointed me out. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.240 He says that I came out in front of him 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.440 ten to fifteen feet and I raised my hand and 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.560 I began to shoot. But mind you, the evidence show 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.840 that whoever shot him shot him from the gangway, you know, 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.200 So things don't make sense. 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.439 Bobby and Ivan were shot from right to left, not 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.639 from the front, which was pointed out on cross as 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.960 was his initial statement where he said he could not 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.960 initially describe the shooter. He responded that he feared retaliation 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.919 from the insane unknowns. Then Ivan's mother testified about hearing 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.600 the gunshots around four fifteen am, calling nine to one 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.000 one and finding Ivan fatally shot in the street. But 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.760 then Ray and his parents took the stand to testify 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:03.720 to his alibi. 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.680 Obviously, when you have your parents backing you up, it's 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.720 not always the strongest alibi because jury's will assume that 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.280 your parents will lie for you. But he's been very 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.400 consistent about what time he got home that night. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.520 I left the party at three twenty, give her a take, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.080 and they got shot at four something, so mind you, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:26.600 I was already at home sleeping. 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:32.280 There was a rebuttal witness who testified under very suspicious circumstances. 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.800 She had never said anything about having seen anything, never 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.400 implicated Scooby or Ray. 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.959 Five was that she said she seen me and two 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.200 of my guys coming out of the alley towards where 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:43.120 the party was. 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.680 But no one else at the party saw Ray after 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.760 three twenty am let alone after the shooting, or with 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:50.960 two other guys. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.880 And again not really anything else, really no real corroboration 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.920 to this. But we are talking about the mid eighties. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.680 Gangs have a strangle on the communities. There's a lot 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:06.119 of gang fear. You have prosecutors tapping into that gang fear. 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.640 They made me look like a real monster. They told 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.280 the jury that I was a gang member and this 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.840 vicious killer. That I didn't want anybody taking my phone, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.280 and that the two victims took my fun when they 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.879 separated me from this fight, and that that made me 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.320 angry and stuff like that, so that that was the 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.320 motive for me to shoot these guys, and the jury 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.160 just ate it up and believed it. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.359 He is convicted. He sentenced to a total of sixty 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.800 years for the murder and the attamp murder. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.920 It was unbelievable. You know, my parents were screaming my siblings. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.280 When I got found guilty and I went to the penecentary, 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:48.359 my wife was three months pregnant. It was it's real 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:53.159 hectic getting found guilty for something you didn't do. It 0:20:53.280 --> 0:21:13.160 was like the world came down the judge. I had 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.560 a real jack off judge. He gave me a consecutive sentence, 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.040 meaning that he wanted me to do forty years for 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.399 the murder and twenty years for the attempted murder, so 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.800 i'd had to do half of both sentences. So I 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.840 did a total of thirty years. I ended up going 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.760 to Joliet. I stayed there for ten years because you 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.000 had to do ten years behind the wall until you 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:41.120 got transferred to a medium, which was Danville. And then 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.920 I got tranferred to Ileinois River. It was closer for 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.199 my parents to go visit me and stuff and my 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.800 wife and I did a couple of years there, and 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:55.160 then I got tranferred to Dixon Correctional and I did 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.520 most of my time in Dixon. The anything that I 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.439 did while I was there, I educated myself, you know, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:05.080