1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: On September eighth, nineteen eighty five, in Humble Park, Chicago, 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: sixteen year old Bernaldo Munoz got into a fight outside 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: a party round three am, and two of his friends, 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Ivan Mina and Bobby Garcia broke it up. About an 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: hour later, Mena and Garcia were being rushed to the 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: hospital with gunshot wounds, but only Garcia survived. Unfortunately, he 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: could not describe the shooter. However, three weeks later, Disgrace 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: Chicago detectives showed Bobby Garcia one photo from which he 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: confidently identified someone whom he should have been able to 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 1: describe the night of the shooting. This is wrongful Conviction. 11 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back to wrongfol Conviction, where we have another story 12 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: about known corrupt detectives. We're talking about Rinaldo Gavara and 13 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: Ernest Halverson at a time when Halverson had another partner 14 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: and Gavara was still just an officer with the gang 15 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: Crimes Unit. However, their corrupt patterns and practices were already 16 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: present at this time. Today we are with another one 17 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: of their survivors, Rinaldo Munos Ray. Thanks for joining us today. 18 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: You're welcome, and to help tell this story, we have 19 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: a returning champion of these survivors, Jennifer Bonjean, welcome back. 20 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me so, Ray. 21 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: Let's start with your life before all of this happened. 22 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: Well. 23 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: I was born in Chicago. I have two older sisters 24 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: and an older brother. I'm the youngest. My siblings were 25 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: born in Puerto Rico. I was born in Chicago. I 26 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: grew up basically middle My mom and dad worked very hard, 27 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: sometimes two jobs to provide for us. My siblings were 28 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 3: straight A students. My brother has his own business. My 29 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 3: older sister she's a GC you know. My younger sister 30 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 3: has a certified CPA. She runs her tax business. Even myself, 31 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 3: I just strayed the wrong direction. I grew up in 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: a humble park environment. Most of the neighborhoods there was 33 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: gang infestation, and my mom and dad they tried to 34 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 3: deter from that, so we had to move from neighborhood 35 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: to neighborhood to try to find somewhere better to live. 36 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: But everywhere you go in a humble park there's gangs, 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: so you had to deal with it. And sometimes guys 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 3: would pick on you and try to tell you what 39 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: you'd be or this or that, and then if you're 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: not on nothing. They didn't want to believe that. Sometimes 41 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: you would get jumped. Sometimes your life was in danger 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: because if you lived in one area and you were 43 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: not hooked up, then somebody else that lived in another 44 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: area they was hooked up. There was the opposition would say, oh, 45 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: this guy, he lives in neighborhood, he's a this or that. 46 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: If you lived on this block and it was a 47 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: Latin King block, you were a Latin King. 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 3: Whether you were in it or whether you were not 49 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: in it, they didn't care. So it's like the innocent 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 3: always ended up paying the price. So when we moved 51 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 3: to where I got hooked up at, I got jumped 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: a couple of times over there, I got chased. So 53 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: then I started hanging out with the guys in the neighborhood, 54 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: and then you know, I became hooked up with the 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: gang that I was with, you know. 56 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: And that gang was called the Insane Unknowns. Unfortunately, as 57 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: we have seen through our coverage of other cases out 58 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: of Humboldt Park in particular, the Chicago police saw gang 59 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: affiliation very much the same way as the gangs did, so, 60 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: regardless of anyone's actual involvement, if there was any involvement 61 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: at all, anybody and everyone could be lumped into the 62 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: gang that was active in their neighborhood. And at the 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: time of the investigation of this crime was penned on Ray, 64 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: there were already a number of incidents that police thought 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: were also associated with this gang. The Insane Unknowns. 66 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they threw them in like three lineups. That's part 67 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: of the big problem is that even people who avoided 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: gang membership, if the police are already going to assume 69 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: you are in a gang by virtue of what block 70 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: you live on, These young Hispanic kids from Humble Park 71 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: and these outlying areas were fungible. They were interchangeable, and 72 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: that has to be incredibly demoralizing when you're already working 73 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: so hard to take a path that your parents want 74 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: you to in some cases, or that you know is 75 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: good for you, and you're getting it from all ends, 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: from the gang members in the community that are, like, 77 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: you know, either harassing you or just sometimes it was 78 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: about wanting to have friends, you know, because there was 79 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: so much gang activity that having friends sometimes meant associating 80 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: with gang members, and the police are going to assume 81 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: you are anyway. 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: So this is the context in which this investigation transpired 83 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of a shooting that occurred around four 84 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: fifteen am on September eighth, nineteen eighty five. But let's 85 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: rewind to a few hours before, on the evening of 86 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: September seventh. 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 3: Well, I was invited to this party. It was in 88 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: the neighborhood. It was the older gentleman. His wife was 89 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: throwing the party for him, and I was invited to 90 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 3: one of my friend's mother. So it was not again 91 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 3: related party. It was a family party. And my wife 92 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: today Wanda, she lived in the neighborhood, so she was 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: going to be at the party, so I was trying 94 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: to hook up with her. So I get to the party. 95 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 3: You know, they have live music, drinks and stuff and food. 96 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: I had a couple of beers and then one of 97 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: the guys that was in the band started pass out drinks, 98 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: so he had like a trade and I went to 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: grab a beer and the guy started talking crazy and 100 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I'll buy my own beer. The 101 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: guy started talking shit, oh, I beat your ass and 102 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 3: all this and that. I'm like, listen, you're not gonna 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 3: do nothing, go about your business and leave me the 104 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: fuck alone. And I just brusted off. He kept running 105 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 3: his mouth, so I told my guy, I said, man, 106 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 3: let's go outside. I don't want to be arguing and 107 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 3: disrespecting these people's house. So we went to the front. 108 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: I'm sitting down on the hood of a car. I 109 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 3: need my business talking to my guy, and the guy 110 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: comes around the back of the alley trying to snake me. 111 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: So my guy's like, hey, watch out, so I jump 112 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: off the car. He comes at me. So I hit 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: the guy a couple of times and I come on 114 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 3: the ground. He gets back up. He's very drunk, so 115 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: he comes at me again and tries to wrestle me. 116 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 3: I hit him a couple of times with an uppercut 117 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 3: and he falls again. I put my knee on his 118 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 3: chest and I say, listen, man, you're drunk. I said, 119 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: take it easy, bro. 120 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: And this fight happened around three am, over an hour 121 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: before the shooting. The only reason that this altercation is 122 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: relevant is this the two eventual shooting victims in this case, 123 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: I haven't made it, I Bobby Guria. They helped break 124 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: the fight up. 125 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: So the two victims break me and the guy up, 126 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: so they're like, are you okay? This and that I'm like, yeah, 127 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: I'm good man, do this not He's the one that's 128 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: all drunk and started talking shit. I didn't even want 129 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: to start no trouble with. They're like, oh whatever. So 130 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: then the guy somebody else gives him a ride, so 131 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 3: as he's leaving, he's like, I'll be back, motherfucker. So 132 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: then he leaves. So we're there talking and then go 133 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: around the neighborhood trying to find some weed. Nobody was out, 134 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: so then my guy's like, hey, I'm tired, I'm gonna 135 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: go home. I'm like all right. Then I proceeded to 136 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: walk to my house, which maybe about five minutes give 137 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: her take. So when I get to my house and 138 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 3: I'm like, hey, mom, i'm home, she starts telling me, Oh, 139 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: why you getting home so late? Oh, you smell like liquor. 140 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I had some beer and stuff, and 141 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: I went to my room and I went to sleep. 142 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: And this is the same account that Rey has maintained 143 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty five that he was hold by three 144 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: thirty a up and then around four twenty am on 145 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: West Potomac Avenue, around the corner from the party, Bobby 146 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: Garcia was shot in the leg and Ivan Mana was 147 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: fatally shot. 148 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: The way the evidence came in is that they go 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: to the car get some cigarettes and it does seem 150 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: that they were going to come back to the party 151 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: and on their way back, somebody is in the gangway 152 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 2: and Claire ambush, Ivan Mana is shot, Bobby Garcia is shot. 153 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: Nine one one is called kind of almost immediately, and 154 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: within minutes of the shooting, there's a nine to one 155 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: one call from a woman who talks about seeing these 156 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: guys running to a silver Cadillac that might have been responsible. 157 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: She describes them, she gets like a plate number, and 158 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 2: the question of whether that is just a coincidence is Unfortunately, 159 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: when detectives don't do good investigations, it's hard to really 160 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: know one way or the other. But that car was 161 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: pulled over, they were detained for a period of time, 162 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: and the reports suggest that they were brought to the 163 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: hospital to be viewed by Bobby Garcia and that he 164 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: didn't identify them. However, we'd opposed one or two of 165 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: the guys that were in that car and they said 166 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: that they were never brought to Bobby Garcia or viewed 167 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: by Bobby Garcia. 168 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: However, the reports that Jennifer just mentioned were not made 169 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: by the initial detectives on scene, Johnson and Jaglowski. 170 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: And one thing I've noticed about these Area five cases 171 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: is that sometimes the detectives that went out to the scene, 172 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: the initial field investigations, they seem to be the guys 173 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: that were not necessarily going to do the dirty work 174 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: that someone like Gavarro would do. So I have always 175 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: found that those initial reports, to the extent they are 176 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: reliable at all, they're the most reliable because those are 177 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: the guys that aren't going to come in and close 178 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: the case just on any kid. In any event, Bobby 179 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: Garcia told the first responding detectives he could not see 180 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: anything and could not provide a description, couldn't even say ethnicity, nothing. 181 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: All the objective evidence that we have about the circumstances 182 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: of the shooting would not lead anyone to think that 183 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 2: Bobby Garcia, who is going to be focused of course 184 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: on his friend he's getting injured, that being able to 185 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: see the offender would have been very difficult. The offender 186 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: is like in some gangway shooting in the dark. 187 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: The term gangway refers to the narrow walkways between houses 188 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: and the shooter's obscured vantage point is supported by the 189 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: bullets having traveled from right to left, and it appears 190 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: that after questioning folks who had been at the party, 191 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: the police had heard about this fight between the guy 192 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: from the band and Ray, whose nickname was Scoopy. They 193 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: had also heard that Ivan and Bobby had broken this 194 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: fight up. 195 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 2: Listen, that's a reasonable lead to explore. You know, you 196 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: hear about a fight at the party, maybe that could 197 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: potentially be a motive. Let's go check it out. 198 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 3: The following day, some police come and pick me up 199 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 3: and start questioning about the party. So I'm like, yeah, 200 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: I went to the party. I told him I had 201 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: to fight. Yeah, I don't have I didn't have anything 202 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: to hide. 203 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: And Ray's like, yeah, Bobby and Ivan split us up. 204 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 2: I don't have any beef with Bobby or Ivan. Like 205 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: the fight was with someone totally different. So they bring 206 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: him back home. 207 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: So it seems that Ray's story checked out for Johnson 208 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: and Jawlowski, But then Ernest Halverson and his partner at 209 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: the time, Edwin Dickinson, took over along with at that 210 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: time Gain Crimes Unit officer Rinaldo Gulvara, and what. 211 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 2: I suspect, in keeping with their pattern is that they 212 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: look at the reports and instead of just sort of 213 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: starting from scratch, they're just like, ah, who seems like 214 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: you know someone we can put this on that's already 215 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: in the reports. And they figure out that there's this 216 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: fight between one of the guys in the band and 217 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: Scooby and Ray. Shortly before he is arrested, he's walking 218 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: down the street and Govera picks him up and doesn't 219 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: realize he is Scooby. He throws him in the back 220 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: seat of his car and says, listen, I'm looking for 221 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: a guy named Snake Scooby. Uh g man. He doesn't 222 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: realize he has Scooby. Gavera knows all the gang members 223 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: right in these neighborhoods. The fact that he doesn't know 224 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: Ray tells you that Ray is not someone who is 225 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: very active. And Ray obviously does not say, oh, hey, 226 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: I'm Scooby. 227 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: So Gavera proceeded to ask me about myself and two 228 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 3: other guys, and I told him I didn't know those guys. 229 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: I didn't know who you were talking about. 230 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: And Gavara is like, oh really like socks him in 231 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: the face in the back seat of his car. 232 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: He gave me. You know, he slagged me and my mom. 233 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: I see, He's like, you're gonna tell me what I 234 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: want to know or what else? 235 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: They take him to Rival gang Territory. 236 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 3: He took me out. There was a bunch of Imperial 237 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: gangsters out there. Then he uncuffed one of my hands. 238 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: He had the other cuff and he's like, tell me 239 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 3: what I want to know. I'm going to feed you 240 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 3: to the dogs. I said, man, I don't know anything. 241 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: A couple of the guys that were there, they started 242 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: spitting on me and some of them got sucker punches 243 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: behind my head. All I was worried about if he 244 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 3: did let me go, which way was I going to 245 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: run to try to get away? And they're like, you know, 246 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 3: you think I'm playing with you. I'm like, man, I 247 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: told you I don't know any of those guys. So 248 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 3: then I called his bluff. He put the cuff back 249 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: on me, put me back in the car, took me 250 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 3: back to where he picked me up, and told me 251 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: tell Scooby Snake and gee Man, I'm looking for them. 252 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 4: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 253 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 4: and all the lava for Good Podcasts one week early 254 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 4: and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 255 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 4: on Apple Podcasts. 256 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Somewhere between hanging Ray out of the car on September 257 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: tenth and raise later arrest on September twenty sixth, Gavarro 258 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: found out that he had had Scooby in his car 259 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: and unwittingly let him go. Meanwhile, viable leads were still 260 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: coming in. 261 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: About three weeks after the shooting, There's a nine to 262 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 2: one to one call that comes in another one and 263 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: someone says, there are these guys hanging out in the neighborhood. 264 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: The guy that did the shooting is hanging out on 265 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: this block. Gives a description, nicknames, and the police show up, 266 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: find the guys, bring them to the twenty fifth district, 267 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: which is that area five. So they called Barby Garcia 268 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: and they say, we want you to come down to 269 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: Area five and look at a lineup. According to Helverson, 270 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: Bobby Garcia says, no, I don't need to come look 271 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: at a lineup. Actually, it's Ray Munos that did this. 272 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: I know I didn't tell you that before, but I 273 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: was scared for some reason which we don't know why. 274 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: Never explains it What's crazy about that is what was 275 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: he just waiting for the police to randomly call him 276 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: one day to tell what he knew that who killed 277 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: his friend? It made it made no sense. But Halverson 278 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: chose a polaroid of Ray Munos and Bobby Garcia says, yeah, 279 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: I know who Scooby is. 280 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: So Ray was arrested for murder and attempted murder at 281 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: the age of sixteen. 282 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 2: H I think about these parents a lot. They were 283 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: not English speakers. Can you imagine trying to navigate a system. 284 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: They would go down to the police station, They're told 285 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: their son isn't there. They're sent to another police station. 286 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: They're given the run around. 287 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: He is a child, and their child was being moved around. 288 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: After all, he was from the insane Unknown's territory, so 289 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: he was sent over to the gang crimes unit. 290 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 3: When I was tranferred to Beaumont and Western, Gavera was there. 291 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: He said schoolviyeh. So they're already put this murder. I 292 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 3: mean when they try for me to Baumont and Western, 293 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 3: they put me in another lineup for another murder and 294 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: three up tent murders. It was an unknowns that did 295 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 3: that murders and those three attent murders, so they were 296 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: trying to say, he's all known, let's put this other 297 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: murder on him too, fuck him. 298 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: But he was only identified for the one incident by 299 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: Bobby Garcia. All of which begs the question, how does 300 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: Bobby flip from not being able to describe a shooter 301 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: to yes, it's definitely this sixteen year old Ray Munos, 302 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: who we knew from the neighborhood. 303 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 304 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: I mean Bobby Garcia is deceased, so you know, we're 305 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: piecing this together a little bit. But Garcia knew who 306 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: Ray Munos was, a sixteen year old kid. It was 307 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: never credible that Bobby Garcia was afraid to tell anybody. 308 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: It made no sense. It's our belief that, consistent with 309 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: the long pattern and practice of these detectives, that they 310 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 2: probably told Garcia. Listen, we know who did it. The 311 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: streets are talking. We know it was Scooby. I've been 312 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 2: doing these cases a really long time, and what I 313 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: have found over and over again that people, when they 314 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: see their friends shot down dead in front of them, 315 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: they want to believe the police. They want to know 316 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 2: that the perpetrator has been caught. And sometimes they're willing 317 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 2: to go along with what the police are telling them, 318 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: even though they never saw anything. I would also point 319 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: out that there is some suggestion that Bobby Garcia was 320 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: in a gang, and there's a certain level of coercion 321 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: and fear that you don't go along and help me 322 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 2: out with closing this case. Your next buddy. He ultimately 323 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 2: identifies Ray Munos. But Ray made bond. I mean, his 324 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: family pulled together every bit of money they could from 325 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: other family members. Again, this was a family that was 326 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: truly committed, believed in his innocence, and knew he was innocent. 327 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: So Ray was out on bond from late September nineteen 328 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: eighty five until his trial that following November. 329 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,239 Speaker 3: I had two States attorney on my case, and they 330 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: were so keen to get rid of me that they 331 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: did my t on Thanksgiving Day, November twenty fifth of 332 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six and found me guilty within two hours. 333 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: Bobby had tried testified against me and said that they 334 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 3: had went to Ivan's car and as they were coming 335 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: back from retrieving the cigarettes, and as they were going 336 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 3: back towards the party towards se Keiler on Potomac, he 337 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: said I was crunched down and he pointed me out. 338 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 3: He says that I came out in front of him 339 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 3: ten to fifteen feet and I raised my hand and 340 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: I began to shoot. But mind you, the evidence show 341 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: that whoever shot him shot him from the gangway, you know, 342 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: So things don't make sense. 343 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: Bobby and Ivan were shot from right to left, not 344 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: from the front, which was pointed out on cross as 345 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: was his initial statement where he said he could not 346 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: initially describe the shooter. He responded that he feared retaliation 347 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: from the insane unknowns. Then Ivan's mother testified about hearing 348 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: the gunshots around four fifteen am, calling nine to one 349 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: one and finding Ivan fatally shot in the street. But 350 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: then Ray and his parents took the stand to testify 351 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: to his alibi. 352 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: Obviously, when you have your parents backing you up, it's 353 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: not always the strongest alibi because jury's will assume that 354 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: your parents will lie for you. But he's been very 355 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 2: consistent about what time he got home that night. 356 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: I left the party at three twenty, give her a take, 357 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: and they got shot at four something, so mind you, 358 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: I was already at home sleeping. 359 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: There was a rebuttal witness who testified under very suspicious circumstances. 360 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: She had never said anything about having seen anything, never 361 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 2: implicated Scooby or Ray. 362 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,959 Speaker 3: Five was that she said she seen me and two 363 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 3: of my guys coming out of the alley towards where 364 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 3: the party was. 365 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: But no one else at the party saw Ray after 366 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: three twenty am let alone after the shooting, or with 367 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: two other guys. 368 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 2: And again not really anything else, really no real corroboration 369 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: to this. But we are talking about the mid eighties. 370 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: Gangs have a strangle on the communities. There's a lot 371 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: of gang fear. You have prosecutors tapping into that gang fear. 372 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 3: They made me look like a real monster. They told 373 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: the jury that I was a gang member and this 374 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 3: vicious killer. That I didn't want anybody taking my phone, 375 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: and that the two victims took my fun when they 376 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 3: separated me from this fight, and that that made me 377 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 3: angry and stuff like that, so that that was the 378 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: motive for me to shoot these guys, and the jury 379 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 3: just ate it up and believed it. 380 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: He is convicted. He sentenced to a total of sixty 381 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: years for the murder and the attamp murder. 382 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 3: It was unbelievable. You know, my parents were screaming my siblings. 383 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: When I got found guilty and I went to the penecentary, 384 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 3: my wife was three months pregnant. It was it's real 385 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 3: hectic getting found guilty for something you didn't do. It 386 00:20:53,280 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: was like the world came down the judge. I had 387 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: a real jack off judge. He gave me a consecutive sentence, 388 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 3: meaning that he wanted me to do forty years for 389 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 3: the murder and twenty years for the attempted murder, so 390 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 3: i'd had to do half of both sentences. So I 391 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 3: did a total of thirty years. I ended up going 392 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: to Joliet. I stayed there for ten years because you 393 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: had to do ten years behind the wall until you 394 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 3: got transferred to a medium, which was Danville. And then 395 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 3: I got tranferred to Ileinois River. It was closer for 396 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 3: my parents to go visit me and stuff and my 397 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: wife and I did a couple of years there, and 398 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 3: then I got tranferred to Dixon Correctional and I did 399 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: most of my time in Dixon. The anything that I 400 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 3: did while I was there, I educated myself, you know, 401 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: and I kept busy. Educate yourself, learn about yourself, stay 402 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: focused and try to get out and survive out of 403 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: that unknown world, because that's a whole different world in there, 404 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: and some of us don't make it out of life. 405 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 3: It's unfortunate for some of the guys that are innocent 406 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: had to die in there and not proving their innocence. 407 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: Raised direct appeals in the late eighties and throughout the nineties, 408 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: as well as his first post conviction petition in two 409 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: thousand and one. These were all denied, so we focused 410 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: on obtaining some kind of new evidence. 411 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 3: Throughout my incarceration, I was always trying to find information 412 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 3: about my case and documents because I knew that there 413 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 3: was more out there about my case that I didn't 414 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 3: see other than when my lawyer showed me. I knew 415 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: that I wasn't guilty of this crime, so I said, 416 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 3: there has to be something else. 417 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 2: It starts doing for your requests, and eventually, in two 418 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: thousand and five, he starts getting some hadweight with that. 419 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 2: He's getting four responses. He's getting some police reports, but 420 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: they're heavily redacted. Good chunks of it are blacked out. 421 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: He's trying to make sense of it, and he gets 422 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: a report that he's never seen before, and it's a 423 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 2: report that is prepared by Halverson after he's been charged, 424 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 2: and the names are all blacked out, but you can 425 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: piece together that it appears as if a witness has 426 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 2: come in to say, wait a second, I saw the shooting. 427 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: I know who Scooby is because I work in the neighborhood, 428 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: and it's not him. I know that kid, and I 429 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: know the kid that I did see do the shooting. 430 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: So this report gets made. There's an inventory list when 431 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 2: police reports go into the investigative file. It never made 432 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: its way into that file. It never made its way 433 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 2: to the criminal justice system, and it is a report 434 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: prepared by Haliverson. Essentially, he and his partner Dickinson were 435 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: responsible for ensuring that that report made its way to 436 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: the criminal justice system. It is classic Brady material, meaning 437 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: it is exculpatory. It is material, and it should have 438 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 2: been made available to him to use in his defense, 439 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: and instead it was concealed. 440 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: So now Ray was trying to get a hold of 441 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: the unredacted report. 442 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: But again I had a jag off judge, my trial 443 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 3: judge to him, and I would submit paperwork requesting these 444 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: documents and he would deny them. So I would try 445 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 3: to go through the Freedom from Information Act. I would 446 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: write to the police station anywhere that I could try 447 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 3: to get these documents, and every time I would get denied. 448 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 3: So then I started thinking about trying to hire an investigator, 449 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: and I spoke to my sister Oilier to see if 450 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 3: you can get an investigator to try to help me 451 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 3: get these documents. 452 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: And I think in two thousand and seven, this investigator 453 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 2: ultimately gets unredacted copies. 454 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: So, in addition to the drop leads from the Silver 455 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: Cadillact that were allegedly ruled out by Bobby Garcia, this 456 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: unredacted police report from Halverson tells the story about a 457 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: potential suspect nicknamed Shorty. 458 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: There was this butcher in the neighborhood walking home on 459 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: the night of the shooting and sees Shorty with a 460 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: weapon right before the shots. And he knows this kid, Shorty, 461 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: because he hangs out in front of this store where 462 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: he's a butcher. And we know that he ultimately told 463 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: Halverson about what he saw, and Halverson shit cans it. 464 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: So he files a post conviction motion with this bombshell 465 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: Brady material and it's denied in two thousand and eight, 466 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: but in twenty ten it was remanded for a hearing 467 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: on appeal, and he received some pro bono help around 468 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Unfortunately that ended up not being so helpful. 469 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: I've had a couple of clients, Ray is amongst them 470 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: that was represented by someone who was understood to be 471 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 2: a competent lawyer who cared about wrongful convictions. And what 472 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: I found to be the case, certainly for Ray and 473 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 2: another client of mine, is that her style of trying 474 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 2: to get relief was to basically go to the prosecutor 475 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 2: and say, Hey, I think this guy I might be innocent, 476 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: Go investigate it. And I got about eight other cases 477 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: that I want you to look at and let me 478 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: know which one you want to reverse on. And then, 479 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 2: because sometimes deals are made like that, the prosecutor's office 480 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 2: will be like, Okay, we like this one, we'll reverse 481 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: this one, and then everyone else is fucked. So there 482 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 2: was no real litigation in Race case by his prior lawyer. 483 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: His prior lawyer withdraws. It's never clear on the record why, 484 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: but my guess is it has to do with the 485 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: fact that the conviction integrity units, such as it was, 486 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 2: was not willing to affirmatively vacate and she wasn't willing 487 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: to litigate. 488 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: And by twenty sixteen, Cook County was touting its conviction 489 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: Integrity Unit as a beacon of hope to those who 490 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: knew all too well how unjust the system there a bit, 491 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: I have. 492 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: No reservations about saying what my experiences and what I saw, 493 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: and the Conviction Integrity Unit at this time was horseshit. 494 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: And when they did decide to reverse convictions, it seemed 495 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: like it had nothing really to do with whether justice 496 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: was served by that decision. Seemed to have a little 497 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: bit more to do with favors and wheeling and dealing. 498 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: And I've confronted the conviction Integrity Unit about this and 499 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: Ray and another client's case. I was like, how are 500 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: you making these decisions? It sure seems like it depends 501 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: on who the lawyer is that these decisions are getting made, 502 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: not based on whether your investigation showed that someone is 503 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 2: actually innocent. So I was very clear on that, and frankly, 504 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: I still don't want the Conviction Integrity Unit of the 505 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 2: Cook County States Attorney's Office touching my cases. My experiences, 506 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: they go out there and they try to fuck up 507 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: your case. 508 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: And we've seen that tread in municipalities all around the 509 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: country where a case will be admitted for reinvestigation. Everyone 510 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: shares their files, and despite case upending evidence, nothing is done. 511 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: The case goes back to court where new witnesses can 512 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: be core first interviewees, words can be misconstrued, or years 513 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: can simply be wasted away while the wheels of justice 514 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: or operating at a snail's pace, And we have to 515 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: ask who was this for? What agenda does this serve? 516 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: We going to do a whole podcast on this. They 517 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: take grant money from places to have these conviction integrity units, 518 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: and they really use them as an investigative arm to 519 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: keep the conviction in place. Of all my exonerations, not 520 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 2: a single one came from the conviction integrity unit doing 521 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 2: an investigation and saying, yeah, we agree with you, you don't 522 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: need to litigate. I always had to litigate. I've wrecked 523 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: up quite a few exonerations. And the fact that not 524 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: once has the Cook County State's Attorney's office initially agreed 525 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: that one of my cases required that result. I always 526 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: was forced to fight them, says everything. 527 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: So Ray's conviction remained in place through his parole hearing 528 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, where it was finally represent by Jennifer 529 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: Bonjean and Ashley Cohen, and Ray refused to bend the 530 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: knee for this parole board. 531 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: I did admit to anything and told him that I 532 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 3: didn't commit this murder, and I got paroled. We stood 533 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: in Chicago for a few days, so we celebrated my 534 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: release at my niece's house. They did a party for me, 535 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 3: and then we had a gathering at my sister's house, Noelia, 536 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 3: who lives downstairs from my mom and dad's house, and 537 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: Jenny and Ashley came over. We had family there, my 538 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: parents and my siblings, my cousins, and my nieces and nephews, 539 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: some of my wife's family. 540 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: He's married to the woman who was his high school 541 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 2: sweetheart at the time, Wanda, and they had a child together. 542 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: They divorced, they were with other people, she had two 543 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: other kids, and then they reconciled. So they have a 544 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: really nice story. And she's a wonderful person. 545 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 3: She's my childhood sweetheart. She's the mother of our oldest daughter. 546 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 3: I couldn't have her just doing time with me and 547 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: not living her life. But she came back and my life. 548 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, while Ray was still in prison, 549 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: they remarried, and then when he was paroled, they were 550 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: finally united along with their daughter, who was in utero 551 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: when Ray was convicted. 552 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: It's your whole life, you know. You have an infant 553 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: going in when you're seventeen and you come out to 554 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 2: a thirty year old woman. 555 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's here with us. I have two step kids, 556 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 3: which I considered on my kids as well. I have 557 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 3: a twenty five year old girl who lives with us, 558 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 3: and our twenty year old boy who lives with us. 559 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: Borrowedest daughter she lives with my son Ala and our grandbaby. 560 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 3: So we have a beautiful granddaughter that's just a spinning 561 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 3: image of her when she was a baby. 562 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: We gotta imagine Ray, You're pouring all your love into 563 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: this child. Yeah, yeah, I hope it helps with it. 564 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it does. 565 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Jenny and Ashley began the legal battle to clear 566 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: Rai's name. This culminated in an evidentiary hearing in the 567 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty one, starting with the Brady violation 568 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: involving the identification of Shorting, which they supported with an 569 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: affidavit from the witness the butcher who still supports the 570 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: statement that he gave Halverson all those years ago. But 571 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: that's not all. 572 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 2: There was another piece of Brady material that I will 573 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: just quickly point out that there was a shooting of 574 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: a guy named roy Croft. It was the same weapon involved. 575 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: They were able to connect the ballistics, and it was 576 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 2: in the same area. The shootings occurred a couple weeks apart, 577 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: and when Halverson was investigating that murder, he put Ray 578 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: in a photo array again, just throwing him in there, 579 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: and the witness was like, no, I know, Scooby, he 580 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 2: wasn't the shooter. So ultimately Ray is not charged for that. 581 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: But they never disclosed to Ray Munos's defense attorney that 582 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: the weapon that was used to kill Ivan Mayna was 583 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: used in another murder. Like that's exculpatory, you can go 584 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: find out, you can investigate. That's a lead that the 585 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: police didn't follow, but you should have at least given 586 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: him the opportunity to have his attorney and investigators follow that. 587 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: In addition to the Brady material, they presented pattern and 588 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: practice evidence of misconduct that had been collected over time 589 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: by Bonjin Law Group and others, where the focus had 590 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: previously been on Govara. 591 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: And Ray's case has become exceedingly important because it's the 592 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: first case where we had a judge saying that this 593 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: pattern in practice wasn't just a Ragavra problem. His partner 594 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 2: was unquestionably engaging in the same type of misconduct that 595 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 2: resulted in the wrongful convictions of other people. 596 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: So they put Ray on the stand as well as 597 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: a man who had been beaten by Halverson into a 598 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: false confession, and then a retired detective named Bill Dorsh 599 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: whose signature was forged by Halverson in an entirely different case. 600 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: Our audience might recall dors from our coverage of Fabian Santiago. 601 00:32:59,120 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 3: That's my cousin. 602 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: What I know. Isn't that crazy? 603 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: Or maybe not so crazy? Considering that they both fell 604 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: into the crosshairs of Ernest Halverson, who by the time 605 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: of this hearing was deceased and unavailable for testimony. But 606 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: thankfully Jenny had already had Halverson under oath in twenty 607 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: sixty We. 608 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 2: Were able to present Halverson's testimony at Ray's hearing via 609 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: a prior deposition that I had taken of him in 610 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: Armando Serrano's case, and he was another Gavera frame up case. 611 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 2: That was my first Goavera case. I put Gavera on 612 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: the stand in his case, me and Russell Ainsworth, who 613 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: represented the co defendant. Together we were the first lawyers 614 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: that were there when Gavara invoked the fitth Amendment and 615 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: he's never come off. So during our Motto Serrano's Civil 616 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: Rights action, we deposed Ernie Halverson, who was still alive 617 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: at the time, and I confronted him with the allegations 618 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 2: of Ray Munos, including whether or not he fabricated the 619 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 2: identification testimony of Bobby Garcia, whether he suppressed exculpatory material, 620 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: all of that, and Halverson not just Gavara. Halverson invoked 621 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 2: his fit the Amendment right to remain silent to every 622 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 2: single question that was asked of him, and that was 623 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 2: presented during the post conviction hearing. 624 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: And so on February twenty second, twenty twenty two, Judge 625 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: Sophia Atcherson issued her ruling vacating the conviction and ordering a. 626 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 2: New trial, and the Circuit Court judge issued a fifty 627 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 2: four page decision finding that he was actually innocent, that 628 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 2: Halverson and Gavera engaged in a pattern and practice of 629 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 2: misconduct that resulted in this wrongful conviction that there had 630 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: been two separate Brady violations and that his constitutional rights 631 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 2: were violated at every turn. And what was really compelling 632 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 2: about this decision is that usually judges don't want to 633 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 2: go out on a limb and make decisions that they 634 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: don't need to make. She could have found that he 635 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 2: was entire to a new trial on a single claim 636 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 2: and left everything alone. But she went out of her 637 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 2: way to find that his constitutional rights were violated on 638 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: every claim we raised. 639 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 3: It was amazing. It was like the world was lifted 640 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 3: off my shoulders. Finally, I said, you know, it's like 641 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: I believe, you know, it's in God's time. It's not 642 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 3: our timing. No matter what happens in life, nobody knows 643 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 3: what's gonna happen, when, or why or how. But God, 644 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 3: that's the only one that has purpose. And anything that 645 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 3: happens in our life, no matter where you come from 646 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 3: or how you raise, anything could happen to anybody at 647 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 3: any given moment. 648 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: It's pretty wild to see how all of these moving 649 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: parts finally come together to deliver long overdue justice, Like 650 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: how Jennifer Bongjin had the forethought to ask Halverson about 651 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: Ray's case in an unrelated case before he died, or 652 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: that she had worked for years to be in a 653 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: position to do that, or how the breedy materials were 654 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: finally uncovered despite the state's best efforts, or that this 655 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: was all revealed in front of a circuit judge that 656 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: wasn't going to let the state wiggle free. So now 657 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: they had to decide whether or not they'd go forward 658 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: with another trial or drop the charges. 659 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 2: They had them coming back and forth from court for 660 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: like nine months, and I was very disappointed with the 661 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: Cook County State's Attorney's office at the time, because despite 662 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,959 Speaker 2: it all, they're like, Okay, well, maybe we'll just try 663 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 2: to put Bobby Garcia's testimony into evidence through a transcript. 664 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 2: And I was like, how could you possibly rely on this? 665 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 2: It was such bad faith. And the circuit court judge 666 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: I think, I'm just reading, you know, into her expressions 667 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: and her statements on the record, But she seemed befuddled 668 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 2: that after all this, you were just going to try 669 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: to stand on the same bad evidence. I don't know 670 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 2: what happened there. Eventually they saw the air of their 671 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 2: ways and dismiss the case. And then he received a 672 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: certificate of innocence without much pushback at that point. 673 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: That was April twenty twenty three. He received state compensation, 674 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: but they're still waiting on the civil suit that they 675 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: have filed that made that's over two years ago. In 676 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: whatever amount of billible hours are footed by Illinois taxpayers. 677 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 3: All the money they're spending on these attorneys to protect 678 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: the scum, to say the least, they should invest that 679 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 3: money into finding the real killers behind all these cases 680 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 3: that were wrongfully convicted so they could bring closure to 681 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 3: victims families. The state's attorneys and the city don't give 682 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: a reds ask about them, us or anybody, and they 683 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 3: continue to protect these people and spending, like you said, 684 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: taxpayers money, and it's going to get worse. It's going 685 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 3: to be in the billions of dollars when it's all 686 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 3: over that and done. 687 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: And with that, Ray, thank you so much for sharing 688 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: your story and getting it out to the world with us. Today, 689 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: we're going to go to our closing statements here and 690 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 1: we want to give the last words to you. So 691 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: this is Rinaldo Munos and Jennifer Boonjee. 692 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ray's case is a very special case to me, obviously, 693 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 2: we fought really hard. We had a full hearing that 694 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 2: again resulted in a really nice ruling from a circuit 695 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 2: court judge who acknowledged the miscarriage of justice. We don't 696 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 2: always get that, and I think it was important for 697 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 2: him to hear that. I wish it had happened earlier. 698 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 2: I think his case exemplifies how the system doesn't work 699 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 2: in terms of not just the wrongful conviction occurring in 700 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 2: the first place, but how long it takes to correct it. 701 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 2: He did his entire sentence, but he learned of the 702 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 2: exculpatory evidence over ten years before he's ultimately released. It 703 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 2: shouldn't take that long. It shouldn't take a decade once 704 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 2: you find out about something so stunningly exculpatory that unquestionably 705 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: would have made a difference at your trial. That it 706 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 2: still took ten years to get him out. That to 707 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 2: me is a lesson about his case, one of the 708 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 2: troubling lessons. But I guess one of the upsides is 709 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 2: that he's a wonderful human being. He didn't let prison 710 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 2: ruin him. He has worked, He's been a consistent presence 711 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 2: in his daughter's life. He's a grandfather, you know, he's 712 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 2: a really good family man. He's a good husband. They're 713 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 2: wonderful people, and I'm really proud of him because I 714 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 2: don't know if I could have come out and survived 715 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 2: in this world having gone in at sixteen and not 716 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 2: have been so bitter as to let it eat me up. 717 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 2: And I don't know if I could have done it, 718 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: but he's really been impressive. 719 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 3: People need to wake up and stop voting for all 720 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 3: these crooked politicians and learn about what's going on. Because 721 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 3: I said this could happen to whoever. It doesn't matter 722 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 3: where you come from. When there's corruption in the government, 723 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 3: there's nothing that can be done unless we as a 724 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 3: people put a stop to it. I'm just wandering for 725 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 3: people and if they have a family member or an 726 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 3: individual that's incarcerated. False league, don't give up. You need 727 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,919 Speaker 3: to find the truth. Everything that's done in darkness will 728 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 3: come to the light no matter what, no matter how 729 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 3: long it takes, the truth show Prevailed to fight, never 730 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 3: give up. 731 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 732 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 4: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 733 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 4: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 734 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,719 Speaker 4: Good Plus on Apple podcasts. I want to thank our 735 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 4: production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as 736 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 4: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Watis, and Jeff Cliber. 737 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,919 Speaker 4: The music in this production was supplied by three time 738 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 4: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us 739 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 4: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and 740 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 4: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram 741 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 4: at It's Jason flamm Wrawful Conviction is a production of 742 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 4: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 743 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 4: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 744 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 4: in this show are accurate. 745 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in 746 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 2: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect 747 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 2: those of Lava for Good.