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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust you, Trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about colds, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two friends who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And today is part two of our interview with Jan Broberg,

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Speaker 2: kidnapping survivor and subject of the Peacock documentary Friend of

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Speaker 2: the Family, True Evil, plus the scripted series that accompanies

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Speaker 2: it Friend of the Family. She's going to talk about

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Speaker 2: how Robert Birch told continued to seduce her mother to

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Speaker 2: get to Jan, and about the second time he abducted

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Speaker 2: Jan from her family, like keeping her hidden for several

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Speaker 2: months in southern California.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us about how brain was she was even

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Speaker 1: after she was returned home, how Bruch told continued to

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Speaker 1: try to intimidate her family, and the moments that helped

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Speaker 1: her realize he'd been lying to her the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she will.

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Speaker 2: You know, those are some of the most interesting parts

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Speaker 2: of every story. I always want to know, like, what

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Speaker 2: were the things that kind of like made you realize,

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Speaker 2: what were the uugh straws that broke the camel's back?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: And I do think hers are really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there is that beautiful one moment in

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Speaker 1: here when it kind of all collapses all at once,

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Speaker 1: which is my favorite kind of story.

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Speaker 2: Ah. I love a good collapse.

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Speaker 1: Me too, especially when it's the collapse of a negative

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Speaker 1: belief system.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Heads up, y'all, we will be talking about abuse

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Speaker 2: of a child as well as a mother, sexual abuse

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Speaker 2: and otherwise, so just take note of that before you

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Speaker 2: decide to listen, and before we dive in, Megan, I

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Speaker 2: have to ask you this extremely important question, which is,

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Speaker 2: what's the coolsiest thing that happened to you this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I've been following the Danny Masterson trial I've

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Speaker 1: brought it up a couple times on here more interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: This time they are saying that Lisa Murray Presley asked

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Speaker 1: a couple of the victims to stay quiet because she,

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Speaker 1: as we know, is a scientologist, Lisa mrie is, and

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Speaker 1: they kind of send out the big guns when somebody

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Speaker 1: is accusing people in the church of sexual harassment. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that she not only admits that she

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Speaker 1: did that, but she also contacted one of the girls

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Speaker 1: and said that she was sorry about doing it.

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Speaker 2: No way, Yeah, okay, well, I mean I appreciate that

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Speaker 2: part of it at least. So what's the latest is

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Speaker 2: she she's talking openly about it, like saying she did it.

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Speaker 1: I just saw that it was put as evidence in

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Speaker 1: the trial. She was not one of the witnesses called

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Speaker 1: see fourth, but that was just like open knowledge that

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Speaker 1: she did this, right right, I apologized and all of that.

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Speaker 1: And then I also saw that there's like a tied

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Speaker 1: jury or something. So the judge sent them home for

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Speaker 1: like ten days of deliberation over Thanksgiving. So hopefully he

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Speaker 1: does not get off scott free, but we shall see.

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Speaker 2: Jury rooms are very interesting to me and a little concerning.

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Speaker 1: Often very Yeah, we'll have to see what happens after Thanksgiving, Brick,

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Speaker 1: because I do believe they are in deliberation.

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Speaker 2: They're still in deliberation, so yeah, yeah, so hung jury

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Speaker 2: is when they actually fully cannot come to a conclusion,

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Speaker 2: and right now we are waiting to find out. Okay,

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Speaker 2: very interesting TBC.

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Speaker 1: Yep, we'll see. D see what about you?

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Speaker 3: Oh, you know, do you ever.

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Speaker 2: Have these periods where I feel like this happens to

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Speaker 2: me like twice a year, where you are sick of

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Speaker 2: all of the shit that's already in your brain in

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Speaker 2: terms of like the things that you like and your

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Speaker 2: thoughts and your ways of seeing the world and like

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Speaker 2: the art that you like. Do you ever just like

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Speaker 2: get sick of it and you're like I need like

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Speaker 2: something new, Yeah, like I need to have a new

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Speaker 2: thought or like a new framework or like personality.

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Speaker 1: I think that's when usually people have children, or like

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Speaker 1: I cannot be fully focused on myself anymore.

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Speaker 3: I'm terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I've been there many times.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just like sometimes I'll feel like I am

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Speaker 2: not growing enough. I'm like I need like more growth

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Speaker 2: and I don't know how, but like almost like spiritually

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Speaker 2: or something where it's like, Okay, yeah, I'm doing my art. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm in my relationship and I'm happy in that, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like living a good life. But I feel like

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Speaker 2: I just need more meaning and I need more like

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Speaker 2: philosophies or something like more.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like time for your UFO cult to begin exactly.

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Speaker 2: Well, that all is to say, this would be the

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Speaker 2: perfect time to target me for your cult, you guys,

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Speaker 2: because I'm like, give me some meaning. Yeah, I want

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Speaker 2: to like feel something.

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Speaker 1: Give me some peak experiences or even sad experiences over

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Speaker 1: the existential death of nothing kind of. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: you just are crying.

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Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, I feel like I don't need more sadness.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it's not that, it's more like I'm like

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Speaker 2: hungry for just growth and newness and meaning. If anyone

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Speaker 2: has the recommendations, I literally like sometimes it comes from

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Speaker 2: a book or a poem or a it can come

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Speaker 2: from anything. I just like, haven't had something that's really

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Speaker 2: like gotten me feeling stimulated lately.

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Speaker 1: Have you tried the Catholic Church?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: And I don't intend to great idea though, So anyway,

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Speaker 2: I'm available for whatever.

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Speaker 3: Cult you got.

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Speaker 2: I'm here, all right, and then I'll talk about it

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Speaker 2: on the show and roast you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, reach out if you have any ideas of where

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Speaker 1: Lola can hid.

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Speaker 2: I think it's activism. I think I just need to

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Speaker 2: like do things for other people. That might be what

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Speaker 2: I need. Anyway, should we talk to Jan?

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Speaker 1: I want to.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you get back to your normal life. You're

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Speaker 1: getting notes still You're like, oh, the alien thing is

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Speaker 1: still on, hasn't gone away. I still have a mission.

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Speaker 1: And is this between part where he again seduces your mother.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and that happens early on, so the seduction where

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Speaker 3: it actually went, you know, past the line that you know.

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Speaker 3: My mother until she was watching the series, I think

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Speaker 3: finally had that moment of oh, it's clear to me

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Speaker 3: why I did this, you know, because she beat herself

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Speaker 3: up her whole life. What happens is he's trying. He's

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Speaker 3: calling every day, and you don't have a cell phone

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Speaker 3: to scream your calls. It rings on your wall and

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Speaker 3: you pick it up and there he is on the

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Speaker 3: other end of the phone. Mary Anne, please don't hang up.

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Speaker 3: I want to tell you everything and what happened and

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Speaker 3: why why this this thing with Jan got out of control,

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Speaker 3: and I haven't you know, he has an answer for everything.

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Speaker 3: So eventually, after being asked, you know, fifty times, she

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Speaker 3: finally agrees to go meet him. And she goes to

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Speaker 3: meet him, and he's going to tell her all the

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Speaker 3: reasons and how much he's been in love with her

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Speaker 3: since day one, and it's all about you, Marianne. I've

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Speaker 3: only wanted you. You're the person I've been I've been

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Speaker 3: dreaming about to have the life that I've always wanted.

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Speaker 3: And I just know you're so dedicated to Bob and

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Speaker 3: your girls, but Bob doesn't deserve you. Please bring the

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Speaker 3: girls and come down here. I'll get you an apartment

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Speaker 3: and you know, all these things. And then of course

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Speaker 3: playing upon all of her emotions and her feelings and

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Speaker 3: her attraction to him, and eventually, after a couple of

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Speaker 3: these encounters, they have an affair. They you know, sleep together.

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Speaker 3: And she said, over the course of about six months,

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Speaker 3: I probably met up with him eight or nine times,

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Speaker 3: but really only had that full experience about three, three

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Speaker 3: to four times. At least that's what her recollection is.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure that it's it's the right number that's

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Speaker 3: in whatever. She finally testified to in court. But that's

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Speaker 3: her recollection.

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Speaker 1: You mean having a sexual relationship with him three or

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Speaker 1: four times? Okay, okay, got it, got it.

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Speaker 3: And I really was trying to find answers. And then

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Speaker 3: a few things that happened. This is early on and

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Speaker 3: again before the hearing, before he's basically sentenced to five years,

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Speaker 3: but then it's all, you know, reduced to a forty

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Speaker 3: five day sentence, and he'd spent thirty days in jail

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Speaker 3: in Mexico and Arizona before he was, you know, extra

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Speaker 3: diited back to Pocatello, so only fifteen days was exactly

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Speaker 3: what he had to serve for that for kidnapping. And

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Speaker 3: so before that all happened. Though my mother saw through it.

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Speaker 3: There was a point that came when she realized, I'm

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Speaker 3: a puppet in his game. I'm a pawn in his game.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't really care about me. He has some obsession

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Speaker 3: with my daughter, and she didn't know there was anything

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Speaker 3: sexual that had happened, nothing like that. I haven't No

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Speaker 3: one knows, my sisters. I don't tell my best friend,

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Speaker 3: I don't tell anybody. I am completely on a mission

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Speaker 3: to save a dying planet and don't want to be

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Speaker 3: vaporized and don't want anything bad to happen to my family.

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Speaker 3: That's the truth.

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Speaker 1: Did anyone ask you, Yeah, they.

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Speaker 3: Sent me I was core ordered to go to I

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Speaker 3: think it was Coret ordered to go to a psychiatrist

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Speaker 3: and not a psychologist. But the interesting part about all

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Speaker 3: those things that therapy like that is brand new. There

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Speaker 3: aren't even child abuse laws in place in every state.

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Speaker 3: There has been, like the federal level has said, we

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Speaker 3: have to have laws that protect children from abuse. But

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Speaker 3: it was against the law to beat your animals and

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Speaker 3: start your animals before it was against the law to

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Speaker 3: abuse your child. Wow, So that didn't really happen. Every

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Speaker 3: state had to adopt those laws and then figure out

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Speaker 3: what do we do, what's the punishment if they break

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Speaker 3: the law? And then now therapy and that sort of

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Speaker 3: thing is starting to happen. But obviously it's only been

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Speaker 3: in the last you know, ten years that we even

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Speaker 3: you know, talk about mental illness and people don't you know,

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Speaker 3: I have that reaction of somebody's saying I'm crazy. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is the seventies. So as that unfold and my

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Speaker 3: mother has several experiences with him where she realizes this

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Speaker 3: and then the hearing, and then he's got this sentence

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Speaker 3: of fifteen days. The whole time he's still grooming and

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Speaker 3: brainwashing me. So I'm meeting up with him, I'm getting notes.

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Speaker 3: He tells me to stage a fight with my parents.

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Speaker 3: I haven't been you know, touchy feely with my dad,

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Speaker 3: which was a complete one eighty from the from the childhood,

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Speaker 3: you know, loving my dad and mom like they were

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Speaker 3: the best, you know, to not touching my dad and

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Speaker 3: always avoiding him and never trying to avoid, you know,

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Speaker 3: any contact with boys even at school, or just downplaying

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Speaker 3: all those things so that I was safe to you know,

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Speaker 3: for the male companion, so we could finish the mission.

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Speaker 2: So you aren't allowed to have like any contact with

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Speaker 2: with boyser men or you would.

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Speaker 3: Be able to with the rules that the Zeta and Zethra,

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Speaker 3: and being who I was was a part of that

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Speaker 3: right and so trying to live by all those rules

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Speaker 3: perfectly so nobody got hurt. And then getting to the

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Speaker 3: place of, okay, now this is what they've told us

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Speaker 3: you need to do. You need to stage a fight

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Speaker 3: with your parents, pack a backpack, write a note that

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Speaker 3: I will give you what to write, which he did,

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Speaker 3: and I copied it with all the misspellings. And I

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Speaker 3: was a straight ag student. That's why my mother was like,

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Speaker 3: this note isn't even jan. I mean, it's her handwriting,

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Speaker 3: but it's not her. She does a misspell word, she doesn't,

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Speaker 3: you know, the way she sounds, it's it's obviously she

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Speaker 3: wrote this note under duress from Birsch told they know

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Speaker 3: that at this point, and then I and then I left.

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Speaker 3: I crawled out my bedroom window, you know the bedroom

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Speaker 3: downstairs that he had divided into separate rooms. So I

237
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Speaker 3: was at the very end of the house and there

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Speaker 3: were two little windows, and he built a hanging chair,

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Speaker 3: you know, this big flat, velvet cushioned hanging chair that

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Speaker 3: I could get up on and crawl out that window.

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Speaker 3: And there he was to meet me and drive me

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Speaker 3: to He drove me to Pasadena, California and school. This

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Speaker 3: was August tenth, nineteen seventy six, and the school hadn't started,

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Speaker 3: and he was enrolling me in a boarding school there.

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Speaker 3: So I stayed with a family that apparently the nuns

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Speaker 3: at the boarding school had helped him find a family

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Speaker 3: for me to stay at, and then they put me

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Speaker 3: in the boarding school. When it was appropriated a little

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Speaker 3: later in August, and I started school, and the nuns

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Speaker 3: thought that he was a CIA agent and that we

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Speaker 3: had escaped from Lebanon, and that my mother had been

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Speaker 3: killed in the Lebanon crisis. Wow, And he had all

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Speaker 3: the credentials and that he was good friends with Jerry Ford,

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Speaker 3: the president, and they believed him. They It's always the

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Speaker 3: most powerful teacher is the first one. That's why it's

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Speaker 3: so important as parents what we how we teach our

257
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Speaker 3: kids before somebody else tells them something else, you know. Anyway,

258
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Speaker 3: that was the way it went, and I went to

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Speaker 3: a boarding school. I learned all the prayers, I knew

260
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Speaker 3: the Rosary. I went to Mass every morning before our classes.

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Speaker 3: I had a sweet roommate from Japan, Jacinta Lobo was

262
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Speaker 3: her name. I want to find her. I wonder if

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Speaker 3: she's still somewhere that I could talk to her. And

264
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Speaker 3: she was so kind. She didn't speak a lot of English.

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Speaker 3: But these are just thester eggs in my story. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I remember notes and letters that even when they found

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Speaker 3: me finally almost four months later and brought me back home,

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Speaker 3: she would write letters that she missed me, And you know,

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Speaker 3: she was just a sweet.

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Speaker 1: A precious person. He told you that one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the teachers at the school was an alien.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he told me that one of the teachers there

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Speaker 3: was was just you know, they look like a But

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Speaker 3: it's funny how your mind will fill that in. Didn't

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Speaker 3: tell me which one, but I knew which one. I

276
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 3: could tell. You know, I could see aliens everywhere. He

277
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Speaker 3: never was allowed back in our home after the first kidnapping.

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Speaker 3: My father wouldn't allow it at all. My father saw

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Speaker 3: through him. Not that he was a sexual predator, but

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Speaker 3: he saw through him and then made sure that he

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Speaker 3: was kept saying he can't be a part of our lives.

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Speaker 3: But like I said, you know, here's all this family

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Speaker 3: that we've been so close to back at church. They

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Speaker 3: still live a block away from us. You know it

285
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Speaker 3: was only a block.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. To just put

287
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Speaker 2: a final comment on the previous thing, is that you

288
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Speaker 2: know the therapy like finding all these excuses to lie

289
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Speaker 2: in your bed but it's on top of the covers

290
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Speaker 2: and the door is open and it's only twenty minutes

291
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Speaker 2: or whatever. That is the perfect example of how you

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Speaker 2: groom a family to get comfortable with them being close

293
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Speaker 2: to your child back to So now you're in California,

294
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Speaker 2: you're in Pasadena, do you miss your family?

295
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Speaker 3: I miss them so much. But I am on this

296
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Speaker 3: heightened state of awareness that I will never be able

297
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Speaker 3: to be with them until the mission is accomplished. I mean,

298
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Speaker 3: there's that thing that's like, if I ever get to

299
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Speaker 3: go back home and go back to my normal life,

300
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Speaker 3: I have to have this baby, to say, the dying planet.

301
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Speaker 3: So I am hyper vigilant that you know that happens,

302
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Speaker 3: that we're working on that, that I'm excusing every bit

303
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 3: of abuse that's happening in as my little fourteen year

304
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 3: old brain could do. I'm still pre pubescent. I don't

305
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:43,200
Speaker 3: start that till I'm seventeen. I'm this little person. So

306
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Speaker 3: all of that is still happening. I'm still completely in it.

307
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Speaker 3: Even when we're found the second time and I'm brought home,

308
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Speaker 3: I still am just in a state of panic that

309
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Speaker 3: how are we going to finish the mission. I'm still

310
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Speaker 3: not pregnant having the baby. I don't want this to

311
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Speaker 3: happen to my little sister. I don't want Karen to

312
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Speaker 3: go blind. I don't want my dad to die. There

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00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,680
Speaker 3: wasn't a specific threat against my mom. I'm not sure why,

314
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Speaker 3: but anyway, those were. That's how it was. And so

315
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 3: even after coming back that second time, I was even

316
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 3: more like a robot, more removed from everyone that I loved.

317
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Speaker 3: But I missed my family and my best friend terribly.

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Speaker 3: I was very homesick. And that's what happened was when

319
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Speaker 3: he realized how homesick I was and I called, he

320
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Speaker 3: let me call home and just again to support the

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Speaker 3: thing that I haven't seen be I don't know where

322
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Speaker 3: he is. I've run away. That's the story. So even

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Speaker 3: with Birch Should, this story is I don't know where

324
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Speaker 3: she is. I've spoken to her a few times on

325
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 3: the phone, but you know, she's living hard. She's on drugs,

326
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Speaker 3: she's living with a cult, she's whatever. And my mom

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Speaker 3: and dad are like jan who cries that she has

328
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Speaker 3: to get a shot a vaccine or something, is not

329
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Speaker 3: on drugs. They just know that he's full of shit. Yeah,

330
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Speaker 3: but they are trying to keep him on the phone

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Speaker 3: long enough maybe he'll say something. You know. My mom

332
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Speaker 3: is like in charge of you know, talk to him

333
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 3: until she just loses it and she's like, you're just

334
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,639
Speaker 3: you need to tell us where she is. We know

335
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 3: you have her, you know we know, And but he's like,

336
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 3: how could I have her? I came, I just served

337
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,399
Speaker 3: my fifteen days in jail. And this is like a

338
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,360
Speaker 3: month after he takes me the second time. I'm already

339
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,880
Speaker 3: in Pasadena when he goes to serve it's fifteen days. See,

340
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 3: people don't get the timeline, and we know that. It's

341
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 3: like the perfect excuse, How could I have done it?

342
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 3: I'm serving my time in jail. He's got me holed

343
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,640
Speaker 3: up in this boarding school that the nuns think they're

344
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 3: protecting me. When the police and different investigators do come

345
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 3: more than once before they actually go, oh, my gosh,

346
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Speaker 3: is what they're saying true? Is this girl that is here?

347
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: Is she really a kidnapped victim? Is it? And then

348
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 3: they finally tell them, yes, she is here, But it

349
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 3: took more than one visit wow wow authorities before they

350
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 3: believe them and not him, because he was so good

351
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 3: at creating that world, like, if you tell people that

352
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 3: she's here, they're people that are in disguise. They might

353
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 3: come as.

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Speaker 1: From the Iranian government.

355
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 3: Correct, yes, from the government, yes, wow, Holy show.

356
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: So when they do finally come does he get arrested.

357
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, he is arrested. Yes, he does get arrested,

358
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 3: and more quickly actually than the first time. In the

359
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 3: course of months and how long it took. He pleads

360
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 3: out and pleads mental defect, which my sister reminded me

361
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 3: just last night. She's like, do you know that that

362
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 3: had just come into play, that mental defect was a

363
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 3: new thing that people could plead. And so people are

364
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 3: pleading this all over the place and they don't even

365
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 3: have all the rules in place or what it should

366
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 3: be and what is true mental defect and what is

367
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,680
Speaker 3: just I mean, anybody that commits crimes has some mental problem,

368
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 3: you know that hurts children. But what is what is

369
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: true mental defect? And what is just an excuse? And

370
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: so again he pleads that they take the plea because

371
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,439
Speaker 3: of everything that we had been through, and it's so

372
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 3: drawn out the first time. It's not my parents, it's

373
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 3: the federal government, you know, and the state that are

374
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 3: prosecutor is not my parents. And I don't think people

375
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 3: get that either. It's different when it's a kidnapping case.

376
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 3: And because I was listed as a runaway and because

377
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 3: there were all these things like, how do we prove this?

378
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 3: They took that pleas and he's sentenced to go to

379
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 3: a mental hospital, and everybody on you know the side

380
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 3: of my parents, and you know, everybody thinks that he's

381
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,679
Speaker 3: going to go there for a long long time. But

382
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 3: five months later, he's fine and he's let out unbelievable

383
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 3: back in society. And that's the that's the way that went.

384
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 3: And so he's still not done with me. I mean,

385
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 3: he's still getting notes to me. When he's first in jail,

386
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 3: he's in jail with two arsonists who then burned my father.

387
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 3: He pays them to burn my father's business to the ground.

388
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 3: This is after the second kidnapping. Of course, Jen thinks

389
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 3: it's her fault because I must have done something wrong.

390
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 3: And here we are standing outside in freezing cold in

391
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,959
Speaker 3: February of that year of nineteen seventy seven. This is,

392
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 3: you know, he kidnaps me in late in early August.

393
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 3: I'm brought home in November, right before Thanksgiving and Christmas,

394
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 3: and he's in jail. And then he in jail with

395
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 3: some arsenists who then burned my father's store to the

396
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: ground and twelve other businesses, a whole city block of

397
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 3: Pocatello is burned to the ground. Wowtown Pocatello, you know

398
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: the historic district of Pocatello. It goes up in flames

399
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: because of him. But even that, he escaped that charge too.

400
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 3: The two guys that actually lit the match, they went

401
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 3: to jail, but he did.

402
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 2: Can you tell us how you finally realized that he

403
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 2: was a fraud.

404
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: So what happened is the summer of my sixteenth birthday,

405
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 3: so second kidnapping his year fourteen. I then turn fifteen

406
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 3: the next summer after being home for six months, seven months,

407
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,719
Speaker 3: and then and then there's a whole other year that

408
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 3: is going by. I'm about to turn sixteen, and he's

409
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 3: been in touch with me all this time. I still

410
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 3: believe it completely. Well, what happened was I went to

411
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 3: a theater camp. That's that's the place that really saved

412
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 3: my life. So I go to this theater camp and

413
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,239
Speaker 3: during the camp, it's a five week camp, I'm going

414
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 3: to be turning sixteen, and I know that that's d day.

415
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: Sixteen is the day that I if I'm not pregnant

416
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 3: having the child to save the dying planet, I will

417
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: be vapor So that's what I'm carrying with me. But

418
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 3: it's theater camp the thing that I'm passionate about. I've

419
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 3: been an actress since I was six, and I love

420
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: that because it's the place I could cry. It's the

421
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: place I could scream. It's the place that I could

422
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 3: be so not acting like everything was fine. It's where

423
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 3: I did my therapy on stage. So there's this boy

424
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: at the theater camp that follows me around. I have

425
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 3: one scene with him in the play, you know, and

426
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: I know he likes me, but I avoid him like

427
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: the plague other than when we're in our scene because

428
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 3: I can't talk to him. I can't have any kind

429
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 3: of a relationship with him. So this is a couple

430
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: of weeks before my birthday. We're about two weeks into

431
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 3: the camp and we're at the bowling alley where there's

432
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 3: ice cream, and he's in front of me in the line.

433
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 3: After rehearsal, we've all gone down there, this whole big

434
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 3: group of kids, and he pays for my ice cream.

435
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: I'm right behind him in the line and I'm so

436
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 3: stunned and mortified. I freeze like you do in trauma,

437
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: and I eat the ice cream with the group and

438
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 3: then i just run back to my little dorm room

439
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 3: and I'm just sobbing on my bed. I'm begging them,

440
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: please don't hurt my family. I didn't know he was

441
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 3: going to do that. You know, I'm just beside myself,

442
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: you know, I'm pleading and I'll do whatever you tell me.

443
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 3: Please don't hurt my family. Well, nothing happened. Then about

444
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: a week later, you know, my parents call me every night.

445
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 3: There's a certain time, you know, between dinner and the

446
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: rehearsal that they call me at my little phone on

447
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: the wall in the dorm and we talk. And my

448
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 3: mom calls that night and we're talking and everybody's fine

449
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 3: except the dogs. The dogs have maybe gotten some food

450
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: poisoning or something. They were having. The one dog was

451
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: having seizures. I took it to the that and I'm

452
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 3: just bawling, Oh my gosh, you know, knowing it's my fault.

453
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 3: I must have done something else and the dogs are

454
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 3: now going to die. And my mom is like, oh,

455
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 3: I think they're going to be fine. I'll call you

456
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 3: in the morning, you know, which was not normal. So

457
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 3: in the morning, I'm by the phone. She calls and

458
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 3: I talked to her and she says, I just wanted

459
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: you to know that the dogs are fine. They're back home,

460
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 3: they're doing well, they're acting normal. I think I might

461
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: have fed them a little piece of meat or something

462
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: that was a little too old. I think it was

463
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 3: my fault. And I'm pretty and I'm like, oh, okay,

464
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 3: and everybody else is fine. Caroline's over, you know, her

465
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 3: and Karen are really good friends now as well. And

466
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: Susan's fine, Dad's gone to work. Everybody's okay. So there's

467
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: number two experience within a short period of time. And

468
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 3: what happened was, I call this my primary thought. For

469
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: five seconds, I had the thought, Okay, wait, are they real?

470
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 3: Is this true what I've been led to believe? And

471
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: then the next five seconds, the secondary thought is, oh,

472
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. I know you can read my mind.

473
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: I'll do whatever you tell me. Please just don't hurt

474
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: my fan. That's how brainwashing works. And so that's what happened.

475
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: I had that momentary thought, Well, I had this big plan.

476
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: I knew that if I turned sixteen and I wasn't pregnant,

477
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 3: and this is my sixteenth birthday is coming up, that

478
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: the ice cream happened. And then the dog thing happened,

479
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 3: and then my birthdays, like in five days, birsch Told

480
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 3: has contacted me. He's trying to find a way we

481
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 3: can meet up the day and time that we had

482
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 3: thought we could meet up. I'm like, I can't now

483
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 3: there's a rehearsal at that time. I have a buddy.

484
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: I can't just disappear. So we didn't. So I have

485
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 3: this plan that if I if I get to my

486
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: sixteenth birthday, I'm going to tell Susan about the mission

487
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: and what she has to do because she's half alien

488
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: and half human like me, and then oh, he doesn't

489
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: want to do it, I'll kill her, and then I'll

490
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: kill myself because obviously killing myself is going to be

491
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: better than being vaporized, which I figure is like being

492
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 3: put in hot walk boiling water or I don't know,

493
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: it's something like that. That's my burning the life from

494
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 3: the inside. I don't know what that means. I just

495
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 3: know it's going to be worse than me going and

496
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: finding my dad's gun, which I know he's now bought

497
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 3: a gun and I know where it is, and I'll

498
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 3: I'll just take her out and then take myself out.

499
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: And so my sixteenth birthday comes and all these friends

500
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: at this camp have this surprise birthday party for me,

501
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: and I'm enjoying all of that, but the background is this,

502
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: this incessant, insane fear. And what happens is after the

503
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 3: day happens and birthday happens, and I'm laying basically on

504
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 3: my bed in the dorm room thinking, Okay, this is it.

505
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to be vaporized. I won't be here in

506
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: the morning because I'm not at home to do the plant. Well.

507
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: I wake up the next morning fully clothed, and I'm like,

508
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: am I still really here? You know? And all of

509
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: a sudden, there's another week of this camp because that's

510
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: when we're doing the show the next weekend week of August,

511
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 3: and I'm alive. So I've still got this plan in

512
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 3: my mind. I'm like, Okay, are they for sure? Is

513
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: this for sure? Real? Here's number three thought in my brain.

514
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: We do the play, my family all comes, they take

515
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: me home from BYU back to Pocatello. School starts. It's

516
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: mid August, and I'm testing the waters. Every day I'm

517
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: doing something that was forbidden. Every day I'm talking to

518
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 3: a new boy at school, or I'm just these little

519
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 3: things that are piling up as evidence that this isn't real.

520
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: The big test was me going to my first dance

521
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: with a boy. I said yes to go to this dance,

522
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 3: and I didn't really know the boy. He was one

523
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: of my dearest friend's boyfriend's cousin. I didn't really know

524
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 3: the boy, but she said, are making you go to

525
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 3: this dance. You haven't ever been to a dance with

526
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 3: any of us, and this is silly. You got to

527
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 3: go to a dance. And so they get me to

528
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 3: this dance. There's four couples, you know, this group of friends.

529
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: And I come home from the dance and my dad's

530
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: waiting up for me, sitting in his lazy boy chair

531
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: where he always was at night, you know, and he's asleep,

532
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: and he wakes up when I come through the door,

533
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 3: and he's like, oh, Jenny, how is the dance? I mean,

534
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 3: for them, this is my first dance. And I'm like,

535
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: it was fun. It was it was good. And I

536
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 3: barely talked to my dad for you know, three and

537
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: a half years. I barely spoken to him, let alone

538
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: let him touch me. And so I go sit on

539
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: the arm of the lazy boy chair, and we talk

540
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: a little bit, and then I give him a hug. Wow,

541
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: I can't go with any I'm crying through and I

542
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: go walking down the hallway because I didn't sleep in

543
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: that bedroom anymore. It was too terrifying for me. And

544
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: I just told my parents I have to sleep in

545
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 3: the guest room. I need to be upstairs. I feel

546
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: too far away from you know. I don't know. I

547
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: just made up some reason. And so I'd sleep either

548
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: in my sister Susan's bedroom, she had a trundle bed,

549
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: or I'd sleep in the guest room, which was all

550
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: on that same floor, right by my parents room, in

551
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: a long hall away upstairs. And I went back to

552
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: that guest room bed, and again I laid on the

553
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: top of my bed. I went past Susan's room. There

554
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: she was asleep. Fine, My mom was in bed asleep,

555
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: my dad, I knew Karen was in her bed asleep.

556
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: And I laid on the bed and I just now,

557
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 3: what do I do? This isn't real. I'm pretty sure

558
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: this isn't real. If I can go to a dance

559
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: on a date and dance with a boy and come

560
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: home and everybody's still here and fine, so then you

561
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: don't know what to do. Then you're kind of trying

562
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: to deprogram yourself at sixteen and a young sixteen, I

563
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: still again, I haven't started puberty yet. I'm tiny, tiny,

564
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: I'm not dumb. I'm a straight A student, but I'm not.

565
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: I've just missed out on developing naturally for four years

566
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: of my childhood. I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

567
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: Who am I? I'm not this important person that has

568
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: this mission to save this planet that was a huge

569
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 3: motivator to keep me sane in an insane way. Do

570
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: you see what I'm saying? Yeah, those things together? Who

571
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: am I? What do I do? Now? Do I tell somebody?

572
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: Will they Well, they think I'm stupid? Is this? Are

573
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: they just? Is it a delayed reaction? Are they? Maybe

574
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 3: they're real? Maybe that something really bad will still happen.

575
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure now with all these things, and he's

576
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: already lost interest in me because he's already abusing his

577
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: next victim. That's the woman I get to interview on

578
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: the documentary. He's already picked her out. He's already he's

579
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: already got her mom in love with him. She's already

580
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: a member of the family. Wow, and he's divorced from

581
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: his original wife. But she said, but we would do

582
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: stuff with all the kids. She fit perfectly between the

583
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: fourth and fifth child. You know, the first three were

584
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: our ages and she fit right in between an age

585
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: of his last two children. There she is, five years later,

586
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: already being manipulated and abused, and that's why he hadn't

587
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: been around much. He tried to see me at the camp,

588
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: but he didn't and then he never was in contact

589
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: with me until later. I mean, the guy was still

590
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: obsessed on some level, because he came in and out

591
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: of my life several times later, which you see that

592
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 3: in the documentary with the whole stocking injunction sitting in

593
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 3: that courtroom. And but it was you know, some years

594
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: and even at college he called down where I lived

595
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: and called me on the phone. Wow. But at that moment,

596
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: you're just trying to know what you're supposed to do next,

597
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: and that's basically what happened. I started to my sister

598
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: Karen and my best friend Caroline, you know, shortly after

599
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: that night of just laying there staring at the ceiling,

600
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: going who am I and what do I do next?

601
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: They started asking me questions. We started a conversation that

602
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: led to this whole kind of outpouring of what had

603
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: happened to me, and you know, clawing at the carpet

604
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: and crying incessantly and screaming. And Karen, my sister, says,

605
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: it's one of the scariest things I've ever witnessed. It

606
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: was like an exorcism of some sort or something that

607
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: was coming out of me. And then eventually I told

608
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: my parents, and I didn't talk in detail about the

609
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 3: icky stuff. I just said those words, there was icky stuff,

610
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: and I don't want to talk about it. And to

611
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 3: my parents' credit, they as the years have gone on,

612
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: they just listened to me. Then they believed me. They

613
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 3: never questioned me, they never blamed me. They just listened

614
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: intently and believed me. That's what survivors need. They need

615
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 3: that one friend, that one person, and then they can

616
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: get on their journey to healing, which is why foundation right.

617
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: And another thing that you said that struck me was

618
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: that your mom, you know, was never defensive because you

619
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: got really angry looking back at what had happened, and

620
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: she never justified herself. She never made excuses. She was like,

621
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, like, that's so beautiful.

622
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

623
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is amazing. Honestly, that is one of

624
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: the most amazing qualities that both of my parents possessed,

625
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: was this unconditional love and this ability to all through

626
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: the years, as something would come up to just my

627
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: dad would often say, I learn more from my girls

628
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: than I could have ever learned in college or in

629
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: my life, than anybody in my life that my girls,

630
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 3: because we had such deep conversations with our parents as

631
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: we became adults and would have these feelings or whatever.

632
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if Karen and Susan feel like they

633
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: had the same degree that as I did. But I

634
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: would call and say, I'm so angry with you. I

635
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 3: lost these years. Why didn't you see? Why didn't you know?

636
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: You know? And again never defending themselves, just listening and

637
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 3: saying We're so sorry, we wish we would have known,

638
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: we didn't know, you know. How can we help? How

639
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: can we support you? Do you need a therapist? Do

640
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: you need something from us? We are here for you.

641
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 3: That's what I got.

642
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 2: I think that that is so like that being the

643
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: response is such a rare and impressive quality because I

644
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: think it would just be so difficult. And we were

645
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: just talking about how someone in my life had you know,

646
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: their parent was just in such denial and about something

647
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 2: that had happened to them, and you know, it's just

648
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 2: like it's just so psychologically difficult to accept that maybe

649
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: you could have had played a part in your child

650
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: being abused. I mean that's a yeah, it's it's devastating,

651
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: and and our brains like we'll try to think of

652
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: ways that that isn't true and make up excuses. So

653
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: the fact that they were able to acknowledge it and

654
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: take responsibility for it is, Yeah, it's just incredibly impressive.

655
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: It's huge. It's what it is truly like the one

656
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: thing that every survivor of any kind of trauma I

657
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 3: think needs is being able to tell their story and

658
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: to be believed and not blamed in the slightest not

659
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: even an eyebrow raise. Like to literally be listened to,

660
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: believed and not blamed is like the key. It is

661
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: like people want to know, well, how did you heal?

662
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: I'm like, this was the key to unlock that door

663
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 3: to healing, and then I could go on and if

664
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: I'm stuck in my life, I describe my beautiful perfect

665
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: Camelot childhood. Even all the years with the bird Stolls,

666
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: it was count of a lot. We were so safe,

667
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: we were so loved, we were so happy. And then

668
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: somebody takes that beautiful music on your beautiful record and

669
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: it's individual to you. Your music is your music. You

670
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: are not like anybody else. Those grooves are your record,

671
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 3: and they scratch that record and I'm like, that scratch

672
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 3: doesn't go away. But your ability to lift the needle

673
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: over the groove, over the scratch at different times in

674
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: your life is what you get good at. And it

675
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 3: is possible to have a happy, healthy, hopeful, productive life

676
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: post trauma, but you will crash into that place where

677
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: you're stuck. But what my parents provided was that thing

678
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: a being believed and not having to defend themselves. Just

679
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 3: listening gave me through those early twenties, in my twenties

680
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 3: and gave me that self worth and esteem that you lose,

681
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 3: you know, when you're abused, you lose that, you don't

682
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 3: have that confidence that just came with being a child

683
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: and running from one place to the next. You lose

684
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 3: something that you can only get it back by on purpose,

685
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: you know, movement forward. And they helped me get that

686
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 3: back in my life to the point where I knew

687
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 3: I was worth it. Every time I'd come to a

688
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: groove that I was stuck. You know, I've been married

689
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: and divorced several times, and they were always there to

690
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: support me. They were never there to criticize me. They

691
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: were always just you know, you're healing has its own path,

692
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: and the journey that you take to learn things is

693
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: going to have its own path. And so every experience

694
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: in my life, I've been able to somewhat say this

695
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: was something that I needed to learn and maybe I

696
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 3: wasn't there yet to make a good choice in this area.

697
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: And you know, you just you get the help you

698
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: need if you have enough confidence to think you're worth it.

699
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: And that's really why I started the online community and

700
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 3: my foundation is that people need that, and not everybody

701
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 3: gets it. Like you said, it's rare to get that,

702
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: maybe from the most important people in your life, your parents,

703
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: or your partner, or the orbit that you are surrounded by.

704
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: That it's Grandpa, and he's the and this is a

705
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 3: true story, and he's the you know, leading he's a

706
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: state president and the leading attorney in our town. And

707
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 3: a state president is a big church leader in our church,

708
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: and he's all these things. So that whole family system.

709
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 3: When the one girl told Grandpa's revered, it all breaks down.

710
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: Everybody's like, she's lying, that can't be true because I

711
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 3: love Grandpa. Well, it took three or four other girls

712
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: from this same you know, four children of Grandpa who

713
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: have children to come forward and say it happened to

714
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 3: me too. And still this poor twenty one year old

715
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: that I was talking to, she's like half my family

716
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 3: still doesn't believe us. Luckily, my parents did believe me

717
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: and believe my cousins. But it is so devastating to

718
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 3: a family when someone that they love, trust and certainly

719
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: already think they know is doing this to their children

720
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 3: to come to terms with it. And Grandpa died before

721
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: he could be prosecuted. But that's the outcome. We have

722
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: to be able to help people have a community where

723
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 3: they're believed first and foremost, so their stories can come

724
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: out and then to know what to do next? What

725
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: do you do next? Like me laying on that bed,

726
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: what do you do?

727
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: What is your foundation's name?

728
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 3: The jahn Broberg Foundation dot org. And I tell other survivors'

729
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: stories on my podcast, The John Broberg Show, and that's

730
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: been a really wonderful journey for me to help others

731
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: tell their story that are ready. So I want people

732
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 3: to know about that. And then we have special guests

733
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 3: that come on and we'll talk about various you know,

734
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 3: tactics of grooming, or they'll talk about how you can

735
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 3: eat healthier to help yourself you know, mentally physically are connected,

736
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 3: and I mean just various things trying to have help

737
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 3: the conversation be broader and further along than it usually is.

738
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 3: Most people aren't really telling their stories for you know, ten, fifteen,

739
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: twenty five, fifty years later. You know, I have people

740
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: that are finally telling their stories, and whether it helps

741
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: one other person identify that, oh, this really is abuse,

742
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 3: and I really should say something because my predator has

743
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 3: probably gone on to pray on other people. I didn't

744
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 3: know that. I didn't know he was going to have

745
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: other victims when I was in my twenties. But if

746
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 3: I had known that and I had like made a

747
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 3: police report, maybe when this happened to the next girl

748
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 3: that I got to interview, he would have stayed in

749
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: jail longer. You know, she did have enough enough courage

750
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: to tell a detective that they did convict him of

751
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 3: rape of a child, but he only spent I think

752
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 3: it was ten months in jail. There had been two

753
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 3: or three people that had reported in their adulthood, because

754
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 3: there were girls before me and girls after me, but

755
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 3: those before me. If we all had reported it, he

756
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 3: would have stayed in jail longer. He would not have

757
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: gotten out for you know, in ten months, yeah, and

758
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: would have sent the ten year sentence in jail and

759
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 3: would have prevented the two girls after her that I know.

760
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: Community is so important, I mean, and that is exactly

761
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: a great example of what you're talking about. I mean,

762
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 2: we need to people need to be able to find

763
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: each other and get advice and get that help and

764
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: find a supportive person or people exactly.

765
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 3: So that's the community aspect of the foundation is really

766
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: to be in the conversation with others who will support

767
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 3: and believe you, and then to eventually be able to have,

768
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: you know, methods of how do we really help in

769
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: the legal advice that my parents didn't get, how do

770
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: we help families that it's you know, a loved member

771
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: of the family prosecute. I had one lady that said,

772
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 3: I finally gave up after seven years. I needed my

773
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: little boys. I needed to be their mother and then

774
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: help them move on. She just gave up. She tried

775
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: for seven years to put I think it was her

776
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: brother behind bars for raping her two young sons, you know,

777
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: for years, three or four years that had happened. And

778
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: now her boys are, you know, instead of being you know,

779
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: five and eight or whatever they were at the time,

780
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 3: now they're five. Fast forward five more years, now they're

781
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: thirteen and fifteen, and she's like, I have to I

782
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: have to be here for them. It was impossible to

783
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: put him in jail. Yeah, we got to help remove

784
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: people from society and to help other people do Thisah,

785
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 3: they just want to perpetrate others.

786
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: Well, you're story so important in doing that, and we cannot,

787
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: We could not cannot. We could not be more grateful

788
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: for you sharing it with us. Thank you so so much.

789
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 2: And tell us the name of the show shows docs

790
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 2: of all the things again.

791
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: My podcast series is called The jam Broberg Show. The

792
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: New Book where Mom and I and my sisters all

793
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 3: contributed to giving more details and more story. It's like

794
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 3: a masterclass in grooming. If you read the whole book

795
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: and it's a page journy. You can't put it down.

796
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 3: It's my story but really told, really really well. That's

797
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 3: called the jam Roberg Story. And then the foundation is

798
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: the jam Roberg Foundation. So awesome. Just know my name

799
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: and let me open up my heart to you and

800
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: tell you I'm so sorry to any listener that anything

801
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: like this has happened to them, because even though my

802
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: story is like this crazy, fantastic story, the through line

803
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 3: is that people are abused by someone they know, someone

804
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: they often love and trust, And that is my message.

805
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: We have to start telling those stories. They are the

806
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 3: least prosecuted and they are the most common, you know.

807
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 3: And I really am here to stand up for you

808
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 3: and your own healing and to make a change through

809
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: this awareness that I think we can gain by you know,

810
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: watch the series, watch the documentaries, watch the Peacock documentary

811
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 3: that is kind of the last pieces of kind of

812
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 3: my journey of healing. And then what I'm doing today,

813
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 3: and join me, join me in spreading this message because

814
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: it's so true and I'm really committed to your own

815
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: health and happiness as well as my own.

816
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: Totally.

817
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, You're amazing. I admire so

818
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: like that you've been able to tell the story for

819
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: so long and you're it's really getting hard now, And yeah,

820
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: I just think it's really awesome and you are making

821
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: a difference, and it's called friend of the family, true

822
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 2: evil on Peacock.

823
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 3: That's right, let's move into the next part. Let's let's

824
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: change this craziness that they do how much for the time.

825
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna generally comment on the thing we

826
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: were kind of mentioning in the intro, which is like

827
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: how small or silly these straws that finally break the

828
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: camel's back can be. I always think about our dear

829
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: friend to Tarth, who you know, it was just like

830
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 2: he realized that Q was manipulating him because of just

831
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 2: like some silly phrase that Trump had already been saying,

832
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,479
Speaker 2: that was you know, Q four told that he would

833
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: say for me, I think that like my overall like Mormonism,

834
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: you know, loss of Faith had so much to do

835
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: similar to jan with just like boys and like a

836
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: bit different obviously, because it wasn't like there wasn't a

837
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: particular like person who was kind of leading my ideology

838
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: at that point because the cult stuff had happened when

839
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: I was younger, but it was like losing my virginity.

840
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: That really like made me be like, oh, I don't think,

841
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: I don't think. I warm it.

842
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so much.

843
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: And Moses too. I feel like he like liked a girl.

844
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: Moses Storm liked a girl at this store.

845
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: That was such a romantic story. Second episode of Trust Me. Yeah,

846
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: they worked at a grocery store together. It's true romance.

847
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: I love it.

848
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, like just having a crush on someone

849
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: can change everything. Mm hmm, yeah, you know, love and

850
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: fucking can really change everything.

851
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true.

852
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 2: Did you feel like you had an any like little

853
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: moments like that that kind of changed your outlook?

854
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: I would say more just talking to people who have

855
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: a different understanding of the stuff I was taught. They

856
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: were taught at a little bit differently. It's always interesting

857
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: to get other people's takes on stuff that it is.

858
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here with us. We

859
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: can't wait to see you again next week. And as always,

860
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

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00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me. And Happy Thanksgiving.

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00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: Day, Thanksgiving, Nice bye.

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00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp, and

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Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

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Speaker 1: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

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00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,479
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

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00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

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Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

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00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

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00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

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00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the words

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Speaker 3: M