WEBVTT - Khleo Thomas on Child Stardom, Hollywood Pressure, and What Comes Next 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.320 The majority of us. Our flex was like coming in 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.240 with McDonald's. You were working on McDonald's. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.280 Yeah, yes, we bring. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.559 A happy meal, we like. Hold on now he on 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:12.120 my TV? 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:27.160 Yeah one? 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:28.960 If y'all at your boy Kevin on stage, or we'll 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.800 welcome you to Not My Best Moment, a podcast where 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.040 I talk to my friends artists, athletes, and entertainers about 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:40.200 their failures and what they learned from them. My guest 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.960 today is a dear friend and a immensely talented gentleman. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.360 You may know him from Disney's Holes, from a Roll 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.519 Balance or Friday After Next, any number of TV shows, 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.960 Scream Tour. More recently, you know him from gaming anime 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.280 Four Controllers. You may know him from a myriad of things, 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:01.040 Ladies and gentlemen. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.839 Cleo, Thomas, what's up, Ken? How you feeling? Brother? 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.320 I feel good, Cleo. It's good to have you on here. 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:09.240 While I got you, I might as well tell you. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.160 I've told you this in private, but I will tell 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:16.560 you this in public. I admire you tremendously. You are 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.360 a person who's taken not only their career into their 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.000 own hands, You've taken it personally into your own hands. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.440 A lot of times. You know, celebrities people have been 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.360 on for a long time. They truly, truly, truly struggle 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:32.760 to transtransition into any other form of medium, and you 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.000 are so successful. People are finding out that you were 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.440 in movies after knowing you from gaming. Yeah, it's almost 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.280 come full circle now that Hey, you're the guy from homes. 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.199 Now it's wait, you're in homes So. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.600 We've slightly eclipsed the resume just to bit. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.880 One thousand percent. So welcome to the show. Cleio Thomas, 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:54.280 how are you? 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.840 I'm amazing man, Thanks for having me man. I appreciate 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.120 those kind words. Kevin Yees like you mentioned you have 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.680 told me that face with being able to you know, 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.240 for you to reiterate it to me, Man, it really 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.400 does mean a lot because in the same respect that 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.440 you have for me, I have the utmost respect for 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.760 you what you built, knowing that I met you just 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.480 years ago from all death right yeah, and knowing with 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.400 the system what the system was there and compared to 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.360 what you built today. Man, Just believing, keeping your faith 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.040 in God, keeping wife you by your side, making sure 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.600 you're a great stand up not only a husband but father. 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.560 Like all of that is inspiring man. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.720 I appreciate that. So yeah, let's go back to All Death. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.040 I met you. I want to say, excuse me, I'm 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.960 a little under the weather. Twenty sixteen or seventeen, maybe 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.000 maybe a little early, but it was around it was 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.480 around peak All Death times. I think we just moved 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.560 to the downtown office, and I remember you came. You 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.280 came and did great taste, and Pat was like over 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:50.799 the moon to have you. He was like, yo, y'all 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.600 got to meet this dude, Cleo. He's so funny. He 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.600 was in all these movies and stuff. So I was 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.400 expecting a pompous a hole. I did not get that. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.400 Got somebody who was very nice. I mean, immediately disarmed. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.440 And that's not say anything about you. It's just like 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.000 a lot of times the people that I met there 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.080 the stars, they looked down upon what we were doing 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:10.800 at All Death. They you know, it was kind of 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.400 like beneath them. So I was like, Okay, here'll come 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:17.240 this other curly headed guy, handsome, light skin. He's gonna 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:18.920 think he's better than us. And you, you didn't come 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.400 in like that. And then I remember I hit you 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:21.720 with a joke and you hit me with a joke 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.800 back so much harder that I was like, oh, yeah, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:28.399 this okay, he's gonna he's gonna fit in just fine here. Yeah, man, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.600 something about my hairline follicles. You could hear my hairline follicles, 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.720 if I'm not mistaken, was a joke. Yeah, but that 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.760 was part of your Well where where were you in 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:39.960 your journey at that time? 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.080 Great question, man, during the rebuilding phase. Really, during the 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.960 rebuilding phase I had, I was I was a really 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.960 early adopter to the Internet, right. I saw I saw 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.920 actors uh starting to waiver and not be able to 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.760 keep a level of consistency when it came to their job, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:03:59.600 no matter if there were child actors or actors were 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.640 way older at me. Right. But then the Internet starts 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.880 taking off. We're seeing YouTube break, all these brand new 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.720 start like like like personalities, and I was like, interesting, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.640 So do you remember you stream back in the day. Yeah, okay. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.480 I was one of the first people to have a 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.800 U stream deal because I was like, wow, I can 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:16.640 just go live, I can just do a talk show 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.159 like right here. So I was just going for it, man. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.000 So little things like that were kind of like the 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.360 building blocks to what I was able to build uh 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.920 in the online space. So when the opportunity came up 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.560 to come to All Death, I was immediately in. I 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.960 had met Pat at like nine thirty at night at 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.560 a at a store and I was buying a Nintendo 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.200 switch and he was buying a Nintental switch, and I 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:38.920 told him I would love to come in one day and. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:46.400 At first switch yo, sh sh ship yo, you guys cute, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.479 You're like past pass, not gonna let you get that 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:49.840 one off. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.960 Bro, PA's gonna come come back to you for that 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.480 one man. So yeah, man. I had told him that 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.520 I'm a huge fan of him and all Deaf and 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.480 I would love to work one day. And about two 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.120 weeks later he reached out to me. He gave me 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.479 a call time, told me to come through, and I 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:09.240 knew I was walking into a very different arena. Because yes, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:10.840 it's one thing for me to be the actor, it's 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.160 one thing for me to have been on set with comedians, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.320 but All Death was different, and I wanted to I 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:17.920 wanted to be able to be a part of it. 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.920 I wanted to be able to keep up because I did. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:21.680 I did feel if you come in there and you 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.960 and you can't swim you're gonna get destroyed. 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.599 And that that happened to a lot of people. I'm 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.320 so sorry. Not that we can do. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:31.880 So. It was that, brother, it was at the it 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.120 was at the right time, man, and I got to 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.599 give you guys credit for this. keV, I have to 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.119 credit all of you for giving me a sense of humor. 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:44.400 Dog really, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.360 At that you you didn't have a sense of humor 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:46.840 at that time. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:48.040 I had a sense of humor. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:49.479 Kevin weren't to use it. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.279 Both both I had a sense of humor, but was 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.719 never able to use it because you know, my roles 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.880 and everything I was booking. I'm not a comedy guy. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.440 I'm not the actor to have the comedic timing in 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.440 the moments. I have to credit you guys for giving 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.760 me a sense of humor. And at the same time, 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.120 it was at a space where I was maybe maybe 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.200 very jaded, you feel me, So I was taking myself 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.760 very I think I was taking myself too seriously, Like 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.400 I couldn't take a joke without immediately getting defensive because 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.359 I'm like, or you to throw a shot at me, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.200 like I ain't did this, this, this, this, and this. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.400 Right, Yeah, and then all of a sudden, those credits 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.479 don't matter right now during Great Taste, none of that matters. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.280 Nope. And at that time, the squad was like on 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:39.120 that channel, the squad was the dream Team, the All Star. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:39.520 Yeah. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.040 It was like you could have had a legit celebrity 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:43.440 to be like, yeah, keep them out of here, bro, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.920 they're messing up the vibes of the like people who 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.919 work there. So I could see how that could be intimidating. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.360 Yeah, man, it was. It was you know, maybe a 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.800 year or two years before that where I started feeling 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.680 that about myself, like being like, why am I so 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:58.880 immediately like defensive when people get to talking to me 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.560 and you know, maybe it's just a joke. Is that 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.640 Are they being serious? Why am I taking it personally? 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.200 And then the moment I've got into the All Death 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.680 Arena immediately gave me a better understanding of like, it 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.560 ain't a personal thing, it's not at all, bro, Like, 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.040 this is this is all love. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.160 We could go from laughing at lunch, go and roast 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.080 each other for for two hours and then come right 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.400 back to laughing. Yeah, and we don't remember half the 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.160 things we said at that time yeah, I want to understand. Okay, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.720 you said you were rebuilding, right, so you know, I 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.160 know a lot of us know your story, but there's 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.160 listeners to this podcast who are learning about you for 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:34.920 the first time, and I want to be you know, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.960 fair to them. Take us back prior to all death. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.480 Take us back through your journey. I feel like every 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.120 time I talk to you, I learned something else that 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.440 you did. But take so people can understand how how 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.680 hard that rebuild was. Take us back through you know 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.800 you were, you were a child star, You're you're considered 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.360 a child star, so you know, give us kind of 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.160 a brief rundown of your history up until that point. 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.000 And how old were you when you came to Allay? 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.440 Yeah? Do you remember you said it was like twenty seventeen, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.679 so we're yeah, ten years ago, so you know, twenty 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:06.160 twenty six, twenty seven. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.520 Okay, yeah, okay, So take us back to your early 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.280 the early part of your Hollywood career. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:12.960 Man, I told my mom I wanted to be an 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.600 actor when we were five years old. We were living 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.760 in Barstow, we had just got my dad, just got 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:18.960 out of the military, and she asked me something that 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.680 I still want to pursue. I said, yeah, and we 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.720 just figured it out. We were just running a race 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.400 trying to figure this out, going to auditions, doing commercial auditions. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.240 The first thing ever booked was like a McDonald's commercial. Right, 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:30.920 we go and do that. And then after that I 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.760 ended up booking a show called Family Law. Then after that, 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.400 I ended up booking a CBS kid show. I hosted 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.960 the cartoons for CBS every Saturday. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:40.640 Wow. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.240 Right, it was really cool. So like second or third grade, 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:44.960 like I'm writing, like, you know, you see you asking 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:45.839 you what do you want to be? It's like I 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.200 want to be an actor. And as I'm doing these 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.880 things in school, like my classmates are watching me every 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.080 Saturday get turned into a cartoon and hosts their favorite shows. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:57.920 Like that was like the early early stuff. 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.480 So the majority of us our flex was like coming 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.439 in with McDonald's and you were working on McDonald's. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.720 Yeah, yeah, we bring. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.880 A hoppy meal. We like hold on now he yeah 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:11.560 on my TV. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.000 Yeah, man, I got a chance to be a part 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.240 of the you know, McDonald's would do the two commercials. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.960 They would show the regular one and then like the 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.160 kids meal one every time. That used to be their 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.080 promo and I was a part of the Kid's meal 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.120 run for the Little Mermaid re release or something like that, 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.960 and it was it was sick man. So years later 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:29.920 we book a film called Holes, right, and I had 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.240 done no Disney work prior to that. I did Friday 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.520 After Next right before that. So I went from being 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.240 on a set with Mike Epp and Mike Epps and 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.520 Kat Williams and ice Cube to being on the set 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.120 of Holes, which was a Disney production. And now I'm 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.080 working with Sigourney Weaver, who I was a huge fan 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.040 of because I'm a sci fi guy love Aliens. Right. Yeah. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.040 After that, then we get Walking Tall with the Rock, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.839 then we get roll Bounce. Then we do to these 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.520 TV shows like like CSI, which I think I've told 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.040 you about this as far as the episode that I'm 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.440 met with CSI, it's called Popping Tags, cav I'll tell 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:00.640 you about this. Mmm mmm. 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:02.920 I knew I was gonna learn some more stuff about 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.160 you today, But go ahead. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.400 I need to tell you who's the guest stars on 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:10.400 this episode because you you run production now, so you 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:12.880 tell me how much did this episode costs? You? Ready? 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.000 I'm ready? 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:19.320 Method man? Oh snap, We'll start with him Akon, Oh 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:24.960 my god, Obi Trice really, Travis Barker all in the 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.480 same episode, Rick Gonzalez who's from Roll Bounce as well, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:35.520 and Biker Boys, myself, Michael B. Jordan, all of ya 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.480 are in one episode, in one episode. And there's a 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:41.560 few names I'm not that, I'm not that I'm blanking 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.640 out at the moment, but there's even more credible names. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.320 Katerina Graham, Page Kennedy's in there as well. It's insane, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.120 it's insane. So we go on to do that. Man, 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.280 So just just running the race, running the race, you know. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.920 And I look back at that time, and the one 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.480 thing that I look back and I know that we 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.840 didn't do a great job at We didn't run the 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.320 pr game of Hollywood. That's the one thing I did 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.160 not do. My jobs came from if you asked me 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.560 for you know what was what was my ways of 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.760 landing roles? It was because I was going into these 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.880 auditions and doing my work. I came, I came prepared. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.640 I was making the adjustments in the room if they 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.520 asked me to do them. But that's so, yeah, we 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.440 were able to work, work, work, but we didn't run 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.800 the pr game to elevate the brand of who Cleo 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.560 Thomas is for anyone to care. You throw in the 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.400 fact that during that era, you think of the young 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.720 child stars, everyone had to have the good girl, gone 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.520 bad or bad boy. I didn't run that race. So 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.280 once Cleo's name is out of headlines, who cares? 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.160 You don't have no black leather caught smoking, peeing and 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.440 drunk here, which does give you some life. A lot 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:47.959 of stars have that, and I'm not saying they do 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.280 it on purpose, but it does keep your name on 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:51.280 people's minds. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.160 I mean, come on, yeah, it's it's a It is 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.400 a play. If we're playing sports, it is a play 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.520 to run, is all I can say about it. Yeah, man, Yeah, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.160 So we go from that, man, and then you know, 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.520 as every child actor gets to a space, you know, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.520 around I want to say around the eighteen or nineteen 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.719 era is where I saw things kind of shift for 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:16.000 me where there weren't a lot of black producers, directors, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:21.120 writers in charge at that time. Yeah, it wasn't like that. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:22.680 So if I'm walking into a room and I have 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.480 the resume and I've worked with already on this project, 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.120 in this project, they're like, hey, yeah, he's black. Yeah, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.080 let's run it right. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:30.280 Yeah that was that. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.559 Now look at where we are when I say around 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.120 the you know, eighteen or nineteen era, there started being 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.319 a little like a lot more people in charge, and 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.560 they want to tell black stories. So when they say 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.559 black actors, you look at me. I am not what 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.680 is the depiction of what a black actor looks like? 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.640 Especially because you don't like traditional mac and cheese? You 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.760 bring this up? Have I not put this to rest 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.920 with you already? You will never put it to rest 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.920 with me, sir. Just this past Christmas shout out to 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.320 my good friend Tiffany followed the Yellow Brick road Girl, 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.920 huge Wizard of Oz fan. She heard about my craft 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.040 mac and cheese thing, and she said, I refuse to 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.160 be friends with you until you eat my mac and cheese. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.800 She brought me her homemade mac and cheese, and keV 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.760 I can say, I have been converted, sir. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:17.800 You've seen the light. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.000 I'm here. I'm here, baby. Every year I want it, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.480 I want it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all my years. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.080 I can tell you this is why it took so 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:27.520 long to get you on this episode. And every time 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:28.640 they were like Kleaw was like. 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:29.640 Man, I don't know, y'all. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.600 I don't know, man, that whole mac and cheese thing 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:33.800 just roughly the wrong way. 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.720 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I could admit my faults and 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.800 I could tell you now give me the whole plate. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.360 I'm on the sun, man, I'm on that time now, man. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.240 So it's that as well. I look at that that era, man, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.280 and we're seeing so many more when I when I 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.480 saw the ship, the transition of our industry be able 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.840 to let more black creators, writers, director's producers make that 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.720 decision of who's going to be in these roles. I 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.800 did see the pair of the whole pendulum shift to 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.440 where it's like, hey, we want to tell black stories 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.959 and the depiction of a light skinned black guy don't 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.400 really look like you. You know, my mom's Moroccan. You 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:09.800 feel me? 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:11.800 Oh, I didn't know that my mom's. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.120 Moroccan, dad's black. So it's like, I want everyone who's 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.040 watching this episode right now, like I want I want 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.760 to give people listening, and I want to give people 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:21.880 an example. I want you all to go watch I 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.760 show speeds live stream in Morocco because he did a 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.920 whole eye show speed around African thing. I want you 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.080 to go see I show speed around a whole bunch 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.239 of Moroccans, and that will immediately give you the understanding of, like, visually, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.840 why I see such a big I don't want to 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.520 call it a roadblock, but it's like when you think 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.800 of a black actor. If you go sit me right 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.080 next a Moroccan guy right next to is show speed, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.000 They're not going to look at the Moroccan guy and 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:48.320 be like, that's a black guy. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.480 For sure, Yeah, for sure, that makes a lot of sense. 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.160 I noticed you said you say we when you're referring 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.560 to the roles you booked. Why do you use the 0:14:58.640 --> 0:14:58.920 term we? 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.600 Nay, that is a great question, Doug. You know why 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.520 I say that, man, and my mom gives me credit 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.440 for it because I say it in conversation with her 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:12.520 all the time. I say we because it's my mom 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.440 and dad believed in me at a very early age. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.160 It took a risk. I'm their oldest son. There was 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.560 no way this was you know, supposed to work out, 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.000 and then it did. So when I say we, it's 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.120 literally everything that has come with me, my mom, my dad, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.280 my brother's, my sister. I do consider it us as 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.760 a UNI. Right, So that's why I say we. No 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:34.920 one's ever asked me that. Man. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.720 Yeah, people have been saying I'm a great interviewer. I've 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:39.160 been getting better and better, And I agree with them, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.800 because if you're a child star, especially starting in Barstow, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.880 it takes a tremendous amount of time to audition, even 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.720 if you lived in Hollywood. And because this is back 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.480 before zoom, so your audition, you know, you your audition 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.920 is maybe two o'clock, right, That means you have to 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.240 leaven enough time to be there by one thirty. Then 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.240 you're waiting. You know, two o'clock doesn't always mean right 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.840 at two. It could mean two, two thirty three, three 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.960 forty five. And then the audition is five minutes, and 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.560 then you drive all the way back. Somebody's got to 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.240 take you and pick you up all those times exactly. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.000 And then when you book a movie, they are taking 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:26.720 time off fmla going without like it does take a village, 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.400 you know. And then your other siblings also have to 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.120 sacrifice because of what you are accomplishing. That takes your 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.080 parents away from from them. So I agree with you. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.840 It is a wee thing more than just cleo did 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.720 it by himself, especially if you're under age. You know, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.400 you can't drive yourself to those auditions. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.360 Nah, man, And I heard a thousand no's before I 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.360 ever heard my first. Yes, you know, I remember my mark. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.400 That really a thousand no's, like literally a thousand but 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.440 like you really didn't have success immediately. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.600 Oh no, absolutely not, absolutely nothing. There was a there 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.080 was so many auditions, so as far as commercial auditions, 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.800 there were so many films and television shows like, uh, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.800 I think the Little Rascals. I got that close. I 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.040 got to the very end and they were like nope. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.760 And I remember crying on the right in the back 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.359 of my mom's camera on that one, the original Little Rascal, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.320 the one that, of course not the black and white joint, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.240 but yeah, the one that no. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.480 No, the one with alfalfa, alfalfa and dark. So that 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:21.800 was with ninety four now. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.960 Somewhere around that era. Yep. Wow, yeah, man, I remember 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.320 crying about that. But I remember my mom driving my 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.639 mom and dad driving me to these auditions, man, and 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.600 going into these rooms and it's full, it's just you know, 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.840 a cattle call. It's not just the parents, it's the kids. 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.520 And then around the corner. They're having a commercial audition 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.920 for something else. It's grown folks there. It's it was chaos, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.320 you know. Yeah, so to have made it through it, man, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.800 it's it's it's really you know, it's a testament to 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.879 where we are today in Hollywood and entertainment, which is 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.320 very different. Yeah. 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.560 So before we get to your current I want to 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.080 go to the screen tour. Hey, taking a quick break 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:18.680 here and support the show by supporting this concert. How 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:19.800 did you end up as bow? 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:20.960 Right? Man? 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.120 It might be my favorite fun fact about you man. 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.879 So here's how it goes down. Coming off of Holes. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.680 I had wrote the theme song for the film right, 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:32.880 So music had always been something. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.360 Wait, look theme song for Holes? Yeah you wrote that? Yes, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.560