Speaker 1: My mom apparently talked to Jennifer Fishel and the two
Speaker 1: of them decided that they should be on the show.
Speaker 1: That's actually an amazing idea. I don't wait, we because
Speaker 1: we've already talked about your mom so much. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it might get awkward. I I you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But it was like, I didn't even
Speaker 1: think about it. I guess I never thought I would
Speaker 1: put my mom in that position. But she brought it up.
Speaker 1: She's like, you know, I actually would never have thought
Speaker 1: of it because my mom normally says no to anything
Speaker 1: that involves her having to be in the public at all.
Speaker 1: She's like, oh no, Um, so we couldn't do a
Speaker 1: mom's episod. Maybe around Mother's Day next year. I think
Speaker 1: that would be great idea. I also we came up
Speaker 1: with an idea downstairs. My parents and I were laughing
Speaker 1: our asses off, where just halfway through the podcast, without
Speaker 1: ever mentioning it, my mom and dad were gonna just
Speaker 1: start wandering behind me with their canes and walkers, and
Speaker 1: no one was going to say anything. They were just
Speaker 1: gonna just be wandering in the background and just out
Speaker 1: of camera. Then back over care We're just laughing hysterically.
Speaker 1: It was so funny. Speaking of Will, where where are
Speaker 1: you right now? Where am I? Yeah? Where are you
Speaker 1: in this present moment? I am right now in my
Speaker 1: childhood bedroom in Connecticut doing a podcast with my sitcom
Speaker 1: mates from the nineties like you do on a normal
Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, the s listener. There is a dark side
Speaker 1: of the Moon poster behind the is so this is
Speaker 1: your actual childhood bedroom, my sexual childhood bedroom. Not it's
Speaker 1: it's like a shrine essentially. Hockey stick stick that is.
Speaker 1: The Hartford, Connecticut where I'm from, had one thing that
Speaker 1: was cool, which was the Hartford Whalers, which is so
Speaker 1: that's Dave Tippett's hockey stick, who was a Hartford Whaler.
Speaker 1: They were the worst hockey team ever. Was like the
Speaker 1: Mighty Ducks. If the Mighty Ducks were even worse. Um,
Speaker 1: and then they they left and became the Carol Carolina
Speaker 1: Hurricanes and like two years later won the Stanley Cup.
Speaker 1: So it was it was like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: So yes, if I turned the camera the other way,
Speaker 1: it is a wall of Marilyn Monroe and I'm I
Speaker 1: mean like if she was all of Marilyn Monroe. If
Speaker 1: she was alive, the police would be visiting because they'd
Speaker 1: be like, all right, there's been weird letters being sent, like, yes,
Speaker 1: I had a bit of a thing for Maryland growing up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's fine. I never knew that. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that. Did you have cars on your wall?
Speaker 1: Did you have like you must have had there? So
Speaker 1: over here there's the thunderbird over here, and the mother's
Speaker 1: side is all every scenes that my brother had stolen
Speaker 1: just at a gmilosity. Why didn't your parents when you
Speaker 1: moved out by the way when you were like fifteen,
Speaker 1: why didn't they immediately change your room into something else
Speaker 1: like my parents did, because they rightfully worshiped me, and
Speaker 1: it needs to be kept exactly as is for every
Speaker 1: time I still come. So he comes home to do
Speaker 1: his podcast about the show that he started when he
Speaker 1: was sixteen with his child. That's a normal way of things.
Speaker 1: So welcome to Connecticut. Yes, I can't believe it in
Speaker 1: your childhood home. Well, what a what a week it's
Speaker 1: been um since our last episode with David Trainer, Um,
Speaker 1: and we got to meet to Pana finally. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure the episode where we meet to Panga I was
Speaker 1: expecting to have so much, um, so much feelings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so many, so many feelings, too much feelings, feelings, new
Speaker 1: T shirt. Yeah, I definitely had a lot of unpacking
Speaker 1: after that episode. Okay, were you okay after that? After
Speaker 1: we talked? I mean, were you? Did you walk away
Speaker 1: feeling all right about the conversation we had or was
Speaker 1: there a lot more kind of going on? No? I did.
Speaker 1: I What I'll say is that I think it was
Speaker 1: the closest feeling I've ever had to a little bit
Speaker 1: of an out of body experience where I felt a
Speaker 1: little disassociated from everything we had talked about and I
Speaker 1: was processing everything, and um, I don't know. I I
Speaker 1: said to my husband. I said to Jensen that it
Speaker 1: was weird because you know, we have talked about this
Speaker 1: podcast as being a place where one we're going to
Speaker 1: be honest and too we want all of our guests
Speaker 1: to feel perfectly comfortable sharing any and all of their experiences,
Speaker 1: whether they're positive, whether they're negative. And that's part of
Speaker 1: the interesting journey of this for all of us is
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, um, what the experience of Boy
Speaker 1: Meets World was for not only us, but for everyone
Speaker 1: else that was a part of the show. You know.
Speaker 1: The other thing I said at the very beginning of this,
Speaker 1: starting the podcast is that I my only concern was
Speaker 1: that some of our honesty might change the way people
Speaker 1: feel about the show, and that that would make me
Speaker 1: really sad. And so I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that's important for me to say after those wonderful episodes
Speaker 1: with David, where they were maybe some of our heaviest
Speaker 1: episodes yet, or maybe our definitely our heaviest episodes yet,
Speaker 1: is that, as I've said many times, Boy Meats Rolled,
Speaker 1: especially the first couple of seasons, was an absolute joy
Speaker 1: of my life, and I just wanted to be there
Speaker 1: every single day. And so even though now I can
Speaker 1: look back on it with adult eyes and um the
Speaker 1: eyes of a parent and all of the two eyes,
Speaker 1: and I can say, wow, maybe some of that wasn't
Speaker 1: the way it should have gone, UM, it didn't change
Speaker 1: the fact that while I was there, I was I
Speaker 1: was really happy, and I loved it. I think what
Speaker 1: was funny about for me, like listening to tell the
Speaker 1: story um last week, was that I was imagining that
Speaker 1: you've told the story a bunch, right, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is sort of your the Topanga origin story, and yet
Speaker 1: it was suddenly kind of different, you know, it was
Speaker 1: like the narrative was changing while you were telling it,
Speaker 1: because you've suddenly had another person's point of view. And
Speaker 1: I think that having to revise those narratives that we've
Speaker 1: told ourselves or that we've told other people for years
Speaker 1: is super scary. It's important sometimes, you know, and I
Speaker 1: think it's great. I think it's great, and I don't
Speaker 1: think that it does takes away from the original narrative,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like it's just now
Speaker 1: now you're forty, and so the story of that you
Speaker 1: tell all your life from twelve to thirty nine was,
Speaker 1: you know, it might be a little different now, and
Speaker 1: that's I think that that's really healthy and that's great. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: that for me during during this experience, you know, because
Speaker 1: I've been you know, for instance, I think I think
Speaker 1: we talked about when we first started. I I think
Speaker 1: I I've always been telling myself a somewhat negative story
Speaker 1: about my experience on boemouth the world, you know, because
Speaker 1: for me, I was a very unhappy kid. I had
Speaker 1: all these sort of pressures I was putting on myself,
Speaker 1: and now I'm looking back and you know, kind of
Speaker 1: revising them and being like, oh my god, this was fun.
Speaker 1: I was having fun, I was laughing, I was meeting
Speaker 1: these amazing people. And so like, you know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: keep We're gonna keep doing that. It's gonna keep fluctuating,
Speaker 1: going in different ways. And and also we'll do it
Speaker 1: again when we're sixty. We'll do it again when you know,
Speaker 1: And that's what's gonna be different exactly. You'll go through
Speaker 1: all these things, you know, kind of different faces is
Speaker 1: in your life. And as we're re you know, every
Speaker 1: time you look back, you're looking back with you know,
Speaker 1: wiser than you were yesterday. So it's going to change
Speaker 1: your perspective. And I also think to what you said, Danielle,
Speaker 1: where we don't want to ruin kind of anybody's experience
Speaker 1: with Boy Meets World. Um, I think it's okay that
Speaker 1: people understand that it's two things that boy meets World.
Speaker 1: The show Boy meets World can always be the show
Speaker 1: Boy meets World. But there were real people making the show,
Speaker 1: and we had our own experiences as we were making
Speaker 1: this wonderful thing for people. But the show itself is
Speaker 1: still this wonderful happy place that brings back all the feelings.
Speaker 1: And I don't think again, I always talk about this,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like mash less because I know a
Speaker 1: lot of As a super fan of mash I grab
Speaker 1: all the books, I read all the books. I want
Speaker 1: to know about the making of I want to know
Speaker 1: the audition process, I want to know all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think the super fans that are listening to
Speaker 1: the show, and all the fans listening to the show,
Speaker 1: I think it's going to enhance the experience of watching
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World more than anything else that they know
Speaker 1: kind of some of the stuff we were going through
Speaker 1: and the process of everything going on. That's the feedback
Speaker 1: I've gotten most, especially from the first episode, which I think,
Speaker 1: if memory serves so, the idea of the show was
Speaker 1: Betsy's and then the idea um of of talking about
Speaker 1: the process of making the show was yours, Danielle, right,
Speaker 1: And and that's one of the creative things I'm getting
Speaker 1: most from people. One of the feedback, the most feedback
Speaker 1: I'm getting is I love the first episode where you
Speaker 1: talked about the actual process of making the show. So
Speaker 1: I think that behind the scenes stuff is people are
Speaker 1: gonna love and got just once again, thank you Betsy
Speaker 1: Randall because the idea has been awesome, and thank this
Speaker 1: podcast so um in happier news. I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: get my too much shirts. I am going to rob that.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because we we we used to get
Speaker 1: cast and crew coats every year. That was so they
Speaker 1: would be called the jackets more than okay, sure, but
Speaker 1: there are also years where there were robes. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there were there were years to Anyway, every year,
Speaker 1: every season of Boy Meets World, the producers would would
Speaker 1: get together and or the network I don't know who
Speaker 1: did this, but they would custom order jackets in whatever
Speaker 1: size you wanted to have like big Boy Meets World logos.
Speaker 1: These things are probably huge collector's items, and they would
Speaker 1: have your name engraved on them, and we could never
Speaker 1: wear them because they would like have our face on them,
Speaker 1: or they would just say world so loud it would
Speaker 1: seem We had the feeling that if we wore it out,
Speaker 1: it was like we were begging for attention. Yes, but
Speaker 1: I can wear it too much shirts out. I feel
Speaker 1: I feel very comfortable wearing too much shirts, because it's
Speaker 1: like it's one of those if you know, you know
Speaker 1: kind of shirts. It doesn't like the show I was on.
Speaker 1: I want to show you you all something that is um.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to um on thumb tack it
Speaker 1: from my wall, but I imagine it has been stuck
Speaker 1: on my wall since. Do you have the navy blue
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World robe? I don't know where mine went
Speaker 1: but when you said to have it. But what I
Speaker 1: actually have on the wall. Here is our invite Saturday,
Speaker 1: March six at the Renaissance Restaurant and night we are
Speaker 1: celebrating the first season rap wow of Boy Meets World.
Speaker 1: So there's the original invite to our first remember that party.
Speaker 1: I remember our holiday party very vividly, and we could
Speaker 1: talk about that maybe some other time. But I don't
Speaker 1: remember the rap party. I don't know if I went
Speaker 1: to the rap part at the end of the first time.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you did. You must have you. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I would have bailed if if it was after the
Speaker 1: season end. Yeah, if it was like days later, you
Speaker 1: might have just I would have gone home to go
Speaker 1: to school and finished all the year, so you know,
Speaker 1: And I don't know if my parents would have been like,
Speaker 1: it's really important you go to this party. You know,
Speaker 1: parties at the beginning of every season. Yes, those were
Speaker 1: fun because there was somewhere just like Ray and Tony
Speaker 1: I remember. But those were fun because they would always
Speaker 1: be all the shows. You'd get to meet all the
Speaker 1: actors from other shows. But it was also at like
Speaker 1: the Librea tar Pits or some some kind of cool
Speaker 1: place where it was like, man, this is awesome. I remember.
Speaker 1: That's what the first place I ever met Melissa joan
Speaker 1: Hart was that one of those parties. So get your
Speaker 1: too much shirt shirt or whatever other merch you want
Speaker 1: at Pod Meets World show dot com. And I'm really
Speaker 1: excited about our guest today. Well, first of all, welcome
Speaker 1: to Pod Meets Walt. I'm Danielle fish All and I'm
Speaker 1: Wilfred l I'm super excited about our guest today, and
Speaker 1: I know that you both are as well, and even
Speaker 1: more so than us. Our listeners are going to be
Speaker 1: ecstatic about this guest because he is definitely one of
Speaker 1: our most requested um and he's just one of our favorites.
Speaker 1: So Lee Norris is from North Carolina. He is best
Speaker 1: known for his role as Stewart Macus on Boy Meats World.
Speaker 1: But that may not even be true. Maybe he is
Speaker 1: best known for One Tree Hill. He is a very
Speaker 1: talented actor. By the way, He's in two David Fincher movies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk to him about that. Um,
Speaker 1: but he has reprised his role as Mancus on Girl
Speaker 1: Meets World. He was in twenty three episodes of Boy
Speaker 1: Meets World, which I also can't wait to talk to
Speaker 1: him about because I feel like he was in every episode.
Speaker 1: He's so memorable. It's shocking to me that it ended
Speaker 1: up only being twenty three episode episodes. UM. And Lee
Speaker 1: has a son who is about the same age or
Speaker 1: close to the same age as Adler. He had a
Speaker 1: son born in two thousand nineteen, so I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to I didn't either. I just found it out, and
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to him about that too.
Speaker 1: So please join me in Welcoming Lee Norris. I friends,
Speaker 1: are you? I am so excited to see you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this forever. You have no idea.
Speaker 1: Can you believe we're we're forty? Something's talking about when
Speaker 1: over twelve? I know it's so weird. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I to you. You look incredible. Wait, I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you. So you're married and you have a
Speaker 1: son who was born when in two thousand nineteen? I do, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was born in October. Yeah, Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: so my son, Adler was born in June. Thank you
Speaker 1: for the next generation exactly that they're going to do
Speaker 1: their own podcast show. Yeah, exactly a show, and then
Speaker 1: Harry Kidd and you will for sure be the leader
Speaker 1: of that group. And he's definitely going to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's put this all together, and then he's gonna tell
Speaker 1: everybody what their rules are. I'm excited for that. Actually,
Speaker 1: I think we should get that going. So Lee, welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Thank you for me, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. This is so exciting. I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: guys are doing this. This is awesome. Yeah, we've had
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of really good conversations. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you've had a chance to listen to
Speaker 1: any of the episodes I have. You better believe you know,
Speaker 1: I always do my homework. Come on, I am not
Speaker 1: surprised at all that you do your homework. So you
Speaker 1: know what we do here. You know how we are.
Speaker 1: You know, we're very honest and we like to get
Speaker 1: down into it. So why don't you take us back
Speaker 1: to the beginning. How did you, as a young boy
Speaker 1: in North Carolina decide that you wanted to be an actor?
Speaker 1: What is your origin story? Yeah, yeah, I'm just one
Speaker 1: of those weird kids. It was never my you guys
Speaker 1: met my mom and my dad. It was never then
Speaker 1: pulling me into it. It was it was the other
Speaker 1: way around. I watched The Cosby Show and those shows
Speaker 1: the kids on it, and just said, why can't be
Speaker 1: like those kids? I want to be on TV? And
Speaker 1: you know, God bless my parents for trying to get
Speaker 1: me involved in theater and not just laughing at me.
Speaker 1: You know. They they explained that, you know, typically back
Speaker 1: then at least you had to typically live in l
Speaker 1: A or New York. Um, but there were, you know,
Speaker 1: film studios in North Carolina. Dino de Laurentis years before that,
Speaker 1: had built studios there um to film fire Starter and
Speaker 1: some other things. So because of yeah, great movie, and
Speaker 1: so because of that, there actually there actually was like
Speaker 1: a local agent who lived nearby, and I was able
Speaker 1: to meet with her and start going out, you know,
Speaker 1: mostly for things that were coming to North Carolina to film,
Speaker 1: but occasionally there would be you know, national searches for things,
Speaker 1: and like my third or fourth audition was in National
Speaker 1: search UM for show called The Torkalson's, which our very
Speaker 1: own Michael Jacobs was you know, looking for Southern kids,
Speaker 1: and I was a Southern kid. So I put myself
Speaker 1: on tape on the old VHS you know tapes, and
Speaker 1: did the audition, sent it off, forgot about it. Like
Speaker 1: two weeks later, we were on our way to Disney
Speaker 1: World in Florida for Easter vacation and we got a
Speaker 1: call saying we're flying out to l A to meet
Speaker 1: with Michael and didn't have a screen test or NBC.
Speaker 1: And my parents are just like, what is happening? So,
Speaker 1: you know, we we go to we go to l A.
Speaker 1: You guys will appreciate this. I meet with Michael first,
Speaker 1: just Michael and I. I do the scenes exactly the
Speaker 1: way I did them on the tape, and he's like,
Speaker 1: that was terrible. We gotta we gotta figure this out.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, what happened? I did
Speaker 1: it the same way, you know, and he's he was
Speaker 1: trying to explain to me as if I was maybe
Speaker 1: eight or nine, like the nuance of acting for television,
Speaker 1: because up until this point I've done like children's theater,
Speaker 1: which is you know, all over the top. Um. So
Speaker 1: he's trying to explain that to me, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to take the notes and internalize it as
Speaker 1: best I can. I tell my parents, I'm like this,
Speaker 1: this may not go well. We go over to NBC.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in this waiting room full of two are
Speaker 1: there to screen tests. They find out kind of and
Speaker 1: they're all like freaked out that I've been flown in
Speaker 1: And there, of course all like coachild actors. You know
Speaker 1: you were you know this writer at Yeah. Well it's
Speaker 1: also if we talked about this, like, you know, Will
Speaker 1: was the guy from New York, you were the guy
Speaker 1: from North Carolina. It's always exactly, but they were. They
Speaker 1: were already these like mind games going on with this
Speaker 1: kid who was sitting next to me of the room
Speaker 1: and says really over the got it, And of course
Speaker 1: I just immediately thought he was, you know, telling the truth,
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, this has been a great
Speaker 1: to I guess I'm not gonna get it, you know.
Speaker 1: Um and and God bless no, it wasn't. I knew Jason. Jason.
Speaker 1: You know it was a spin off with Jason. Yeah, exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: So anyway, I went in, I did the best I could,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, it worked out. And God bless
Speaker 1: my parents for just you know, kind of resetting me
Speaker 1: and saying you've come this far and that's a win.
Speaker 1: Whatever happens from here is is icing on the cake.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I was able to relax and
Speaker 1: do it. But so started my journey with TV and
Speaker 1: Michael and the Torcal sins it. We did Almost Home
Speaker 1: with Jason and Brittany Murphy, who obviously we missed, and um,
Speaker 1: you know that ended, and I thought that might be
Speaker 1: it until I got a phone call one day and said,
Speaker 1: you know, come out to l A. We can't find
Speaker 1: anybody to play this kid. Minkus. It's Michael on the phone.
Speaker 1: He says, I think you'd be perfect. And I guess
Speaker 1: now I should be insulted that he thought I was prettyfect.
Speaker 1: Not at all, not at all. I also think, uh,
Speaker 1: at the at the beginning, wasn't it mpkey? It was?
Speaker 1: It was? Yeah, I'm sorry I have to go back
Speaker 1: because I have been triggered hearing Lee say that he
Speaker 1: flew you out here after doing your audition and then
Speaker 1: told you everything you were doing was wrong and he
Speaker 1: wanted you to do it differently. How different would you
Speaker 1: say your screen test performance will ended up being from
Speaker 1: the from the way you did it on the VHS,
Speaker 1: And yeah, how what was that? How? How was that?
Speaker 1: Why your original performance? And what did Michael want? I
Speaker 1: really have no idea. It was such an out of
Speaker 1: body experience. I mean, really, it was all I could
Speaker 1: do to just get in the room. I remember there
Speaker 1: was like forty executives in there, and I had been
Speaker 1: raised as a little southern kid like manners were a
Speaker 1: big deal. So I tried to go around the room
Speaker 1: shaking everybody's hand, of course executives, and they were five
Speaker 1: minutes later. Yeah, they're like, you've got to do the audition.
Speaker 1: You can't shake up everbody, you know, And I'm like that.
Speaker 1: I honestly, I honestly think that had as much to
Speaker 1: do with it as the lead, if I'm being honest. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, I just tried. I tried, Danielle to
Speaker 1: I tried to bring it down I tried to take
Speaker 1: his notes. I would say it was mostly probably the same,
Speaker 1: but you know, some of the things that I hit harder,
Speaker 1: I tried to soften and you know, but I guarantee
Speaker 1: you that it was so it was just as much
Speaker 1: what happened in the room as it was the remond
Speaker 1: Michael gave you notes. Weird, right and what I thought. So,
Speaker 1: how long did the Tortolson's go for? Was it one
Speaker 1: full season or two? It was one one full season.
Speaker 1: They put us on after the Golden Girls, which was
Speaker 1: an interesting time slide, and then they moved us against
Speaker 1: sixty minutes, so we got clovered. Um. And so then
Speaker 1: they tried to retool it, and they brought in Jason
Speaker 1: and Bread and Perry King and um, you know, we
Speaker 1: lost some of our siblings and it was just a
Speaker 1: different show. And as happened, that was my first ever
Speaker 1: lost Angel's screen test was for Almost Homes. It really
Speaker 1: I didn't know about. It was between myself and Jason
Speaker 1: and Shiloh for writer's older brother for Almost Home and Jason.
Speaker 1: The first time I met my one of my best
Speaker 1: friends in the world, Jason Marsden. We were on an
Speaker 1: elevator and Perry King got on the elevator and I
Speaker 1: turned to my dad and I went, Dad, Rip Tide
Speaker 1: because that was the show he was on and it
Speaker 1: was the coolest show in the world as an eight
Speaker 1: show where there's this boat and it was just called
Speaker 1: rip Tide. And Jason turned me and went ripped Tide
Speaker 1: like he was like making fun of me and made
Speaker 1: fun of me years about being a guy that was
Speaker 1: like Dad rip Tide like. He was always making fun
Speaker 1: of me because I Jason was jaded by this point.
Speaker 1: He's like sixteen, had been in business, was probably the
Speaker 1: most excited about meeting somebody famous, Yeah, exactly, but he
Speaker 1: gave me he did. He made fun of me for
Speaker 1: years that I pointed out Perry King to my dad
Speaker 1: like rip Tied, and he just would always say that
Speaker 1: rip Dad, like he thought he was. Yeah. So when Michael,
Speaker 1: when Michael called you for Boy Meat's World, did you
Speaker 1: end up even needing to audition or did you just
Speaker 1: he just put you in? No, so that that was
Speaker 1: the best thing that you know. I think I even
Speaker 1: answered the phone at my house and and it was
Speaker 1: Michael and he was like, how would you like to
Speaker 1: come to l A and do this great part, and
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's the dream as an actor,
Speaker 1: or not have um and but the only bad news Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the only bad news was that it was like
Speaker 1: two It was like two days later that the first
Speaker 1: table read was happening, and so and they said to
Speaker 1: me that they've been looking everywhere and they hadn't been
Speaker 1: able to find anybody to play this kid. And so
Speaker 1: I was I got on the plane with my mom.
Speaker 1: Literally the script had been fed X to me, you know,
Speaker 1: way pre email had been FedEx to me, and I
Speaker 1: was reading it on the plane, highlighting the lines, and
Speaker 1: it suddenly became a very stressful experience because I realized that,
Speaker 1: you know, I had never said these lines before to
Speaker 1: a casting director, to Michael. And even though they given
Speaker 1: me this part quote on quote, I knew if I
Speaker 1: didn't get it right that I would be back on
Speaker 1: the plane headed back to North Carolina very quickly, because
Speaker 1: you know, I knew Michael, and I know he expects
Speaker 1: it to be funny and so, um, I was a
Speaker 1: bit stressed going into the table read. We landed, went
Speaker 1: right into the table read, and I said that first line,
Speaker 1: which was am I misremembering was killer be the first
Speaker 1: episode that no, you are not misremembering, this is the
Speaker 1: first one that I did. Okay. So I as I
Speaker 1: was watching the episode, I remembered like saying that first
Speaker 1: line at the table read and I say that out
Speaker 1: when I get hit in the back of the head,
Speaker 1: and it got a huge laugh. And as soon as
Speaker 1: I got that laugh, I just I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can do this. I can do this. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I think only you and Bill Daniels were offered the
Speaker 1: role on Boy Me Tworld. Everybody else I think had
Speaker 1: to audition, but Leon Orris and exactly pretty exactly good company.
Speaker 1: To be in good company, I'll take it. And so
Speaker 1: you you know, we have talked on this show lot
Speaker 1: about the death chair and that there was that death chair.
Speaker 1: You having already been on the Tortil Sens with Michael,
Speaker 1: did you already know of the version of the death
Speaker 1: chair from the Tortal Sens, Like, had you because you
Speaker 1: had already kind of seen that happen. I did, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I lost two siblings, so I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: I saw things happen but rest in peace, and they
Speaker 1: were wonderful, you know. And then I and then I
Speaker 1: had my own my own dance with sort of the
Speaker 1: death chair later. So, I mean I understood it was
Speaker 1: a business like I I knew what was going on. Um,
Speaker 1: but Michael was he Look, he changed my life. I
Speaker 1: mean he he gave me that opportunity on the Tortal
Speaker 1: Sens and he brought me back to bloo Meat's world.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, I was just a kid from
Speaker 1: North Carolina. You could still hear the accident come through,
Speaker 1: and I was you know, was certainly not winning any Emmys.
Speaker 1: We were finding our way. But he just he recognized
Speaker 1: I think my instincts and he knew how to talk
Speaker 1: to me and and get me to where he wanted
Speaker 1: me to be. And it was always so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to so we we we have been marveling
Speaker 1: at your performance here. So good. You arrive fully formed
Speaker 1: as a character. It's it could so easily be like
Speaker 1: a cliche, and you just managed to imbue it with
Speaker 1: such humanity. It's so funny. You're so sweet and yet
Speaker 1: you know it's just great man. It's you are truly
Speaker 1: and you are you have such a I mean I
Speaker 1: said this when we first you arrive as as an
Speaker 1: amazing comedian, act, community actor and like I feel like
Speaker 1: the rest of us are kind of flailing around, and
Speaker 1: I can It's so funny. I can hear you know,
Speaker 1: Like there are times when I could see Ben and
Speaker 1: I remember like him kind of not knowing what he
Speaker 1: was doing, which is also part of Corey, right, But
Speaker 1: like with you, you are so confident and in control
Speaker 1: of every senior in and with every actor that you're
Speaker 1: up against. It is wonderful to watch. And and you
Speaker 1: just think, this tiny little kid, it's cute, man, But
Speaker 1: you are You're so You're so comfortable in your skin.
Speaker 1: You're even your physicality is very like commanding. Even though
Speaker 1: you are a small you were a small child, you
Speaker 1: have a commanding presence. You are so in your skin
Speaker 1: and so sure of yourself. Uh it is. You are
Speaker 1: just such a delight to watch in every episode when
Speaker 1: you were in the episodes, I cannot take my eyes
Speaker 1: off you. The thing that amazed me, especially about this
Speaker 1: first episode about Killer that when we were just talking
Speaker 1: about Killer Bees, which we are watching, well, we're watching
Speaker 1: in order, but we shot out of order. So this
Speaker 1: is the first time that we actually were together. If
Speaker 1: you didn't know anything about boy Mes World, you could
Speaker 1: easily think that you were the star of this show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this show was built around mincus and cons like, this
Speaker 1: is what the show is about, and this is going
Speaker 1: to be what it's like. I was just sitting there
Speaker 1: watching it, going like, oh, he easily could have been
Speaker 1: the star of the show. Well, thank god, I thank
Speaker 1: god I wasn't, is all I have to say, because
Speaker 1: I mean, major props and respect to Ben. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just I'm marveled at his ability to carry
Speaker 1: the show. It was incredible, and I'm I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I wasn't at the center because I frankly I don't
Speaker 1: know how he did it. And and you to you all,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is really high praise coming from you guys,
Speaker 1: because I'm going back and watching it and of course
Speaker 1: I'm cringing at some of the things I'm doing. But writer,
Speaker 1: you were so natural and Will You're just hysterical, and
Speaker 1: and Danielle. Without you being there, I was like, this
Speaker 1: show was terrible. Where is she? So you know, it's
Speaker 1: the feeling of love is is mutual, and you know,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, but you were just my god,
Speaker 1: the natural talent was was there from this And again
Speaker 1: we talked about this all the time. We're, as a
Speaker 1: writer said, we're just trying to find ourselves, especially like
Speaker 1: Eric really didn't have a character to Pango was supposed
Speaker 1: to be on one episode, writer had like a line
Speaker 1: or two. We're just trying to figure out what we're doing,
Speaker 1: what we're there, and then Mincas comes in. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get him right away, Like you knew Mincus right away. Well,
Speaker 1: I love that that Mincus is the quote unquote nerd character.
Speaker 1: But my favorite part of you as the as the
Speaker 1: actor is that you didn't take ish from anybody, like
Speaker 1: you were the first person to have a comeback and
Speaker 1: to have a response. And I just how did you like? What?
Speaker 1: To who is Minkus to you? What? What? How did
Speaker 1: you think of him? I never thought, of course, I
Speaker 1: never thought of him as a nerd. I thought of
Speaker 1: him as a kid who had um great parents who
Speaker 1: loved him and told him he was get on the block,
Speaker 1: you know, like that he and not that he was
Speaker 1: better than anybody else, but just that he was just
Speaker 1: as good as anyone else, you know, and that um
Speaker 1: that his thing that he loved was was was learning,
Speaker 1: you know, that he loved to learn. And I shared
Speaker 1: that in common with him, I am not not nearly
Speaker 1: as smart as he was at all, but I certainly
Speaker 1: could relate to that. And I also could relate to
Speaker 1: um not necessarily being the most popular kid in school,
Speaker 1: but but feeling good about who I was, and that
Speaker 1: I that I've kind of floated between different groups, and
Speaker 1: I loved everybody, and and so I sort of let
Speaker 1: that confidence infuse him because I think the last thing
Speaker 1: anybody wanted to watch was, you know, a nerd get
Speaker 1: hit in the back of the head and didn't feel
Speaker 1: really sorry for himself, you know what I mean, nobody.
Speaker 1: I think everybody just wanted to you know, loved him
Speaker 1: because he was a likable guy who just did his
Speaker 1: thing and knew he was going to find his way.
Speaker 1: So that's that's, you know, how I played him. We've
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about UM, a real little bit
Speaker 1: about what our experience was before starting Boy Meats World.
Speaker 1: Writer had already had quite a bit of acting experience,
Speaker 1: had already been on a show. He was a little
Speaker 1: jaded already going into Boy Meats World. Will's entire life
Speaker 1: all he wanted was to be on a sitcom. So
Speaker 1: this was a dream come true for him, and I
Speaker 1: had literally done nothing except like a few commercials and
Speaker 1: what two episodes of Full House, So I was very
Speaker 1: very new. What was your Do you remember your first
Speaker 1: impression of all of us the first time you met us?
Speaker 1: You had you were very experienced, having already been on
Speaker 1: two other shows that had been successful in their own right.
Speaker 1: And but and yet I was intimidated because you know,
Speaker 1: again I had been told similarly Danielle one or two
Speaker 1: episodes tops I was not expecting to be there. I
Speaker 1: was that true. You were You weren't immediately hired as
Speaker 1: a regular opening opening I know that that came later.
Speaker 1: So we we filmed those first two episodes, and during
Speaker 1: the filming of this second episode, they started coming to
Speaker 1: my mom and saying, we we want to talk about
Speaker 1: making him a regular. It felt great, um and and
Speaker 1: so um. Because of that, I just came in meeting everybody,
Speaker 1: not knowing that, you know, I would get to form
Speaker 1: any really deep relationships. But I just remember Ben was
Speaker 1: very kind and sort of what just building on what
Speaker 1: I said, I was so taken aback of his day
Speaker 1: was scheduled, like he was either on set or in
Speaker 1: school or doing an interview. Or something, and I just
Speaker 1: kind of marveled at that, and he was he was
Speaker 1: very kind to me, which I appreciated. I was by
Speaker 1: how intellectual you were. I mean, you were just a
Speaker 1: smart guy, and you had your older brother, and you
Speaker 1: were just much more worldly than I was. And I
Speaker 1: just thought you were so cool. And you know, I
Speaker 1: just was really impressed with you all together. And Will
Speaker 1: I loved you right away. I felt like we had
Speaker 1: a very um, maybe an East Coast sensibility or kind
Speaker 1: of a vibe, but not that kindecicet in North Carolina
Speaker 1: are the same. Yeah, it's kind of kind of an
Speaker 1: East Coast thing. Close with your family and you know,
Speaker 1: just really um, you were just such a nice guy
Speaker 1: and hysterical. And I remember we you know later would
Speaker 1: come to live at the oak Wood, and I just
Speaker 1: I will never forget as long as I live, that
Speaker 1: huge earthquake hitting the same thing. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: the same story before the Fugitive episode the Fugitive, I
Speaker 1: actually missed it because I was up north and I
Speaker 1: was flying in that day. But you guys were the
Speaker 1: oak Woods together, right, Yeah, that's right. So my building
Speaker 1: was like just down the hill from Wills and and
Speaker 1: I remember there was like a guard there was like
Speaker 1: a guard gate to get on the property. And I'll
Speaker 1: never forget like coming back to work and hearing that,
Speaker 1: like the guard at the Oakwood freaked out because Will
Speaker 1: and his roommate when we lost power, turned on their
Speaker 1: gas logs to try to provide light in the apartment,
Speaker 1: and the guard like high up to their apartment and
Speaker 1: like out of breaths, like turning your gas logs off,
Speaker 1: and we hear the East Coasters. We had no idea,
Speaker 1: no we needed light. So there was an earthquake, we
Speaker 1: had no power, turn on gas fire. That seems like
Speaker 1: the most appropriate thing to do. There's two guards banging
Speaker 1: on our door holding fire extinguishers, thinking that the whole
Speaker 1: building is on fire. We're like, sorry, we didn't know.
Speaker 1: That's hysterical. So do you guys? Were you both woken
Speaker 1: up by the earthquake? Because it was never on the
Speaker 1: phone with each other. We remember your your your mom
Speaker 1: and I and we were all talking about like, all right,
Speaker 1: what do we do now? Like what's what's the plan?
Speaker 1: We had no power? Experience possible? Right? Were both like
Speaker 1: the like the third month we were there something like that.
Speaker 1: The second or third month we lived in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: It was it was quite a way to literally wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning. And so that earthquake was How
Speaker 1: old were you lee at the time it was? I
Speaker 1: think I was in turning twelve. I'm not a math guy,
Speaker 1: I believe it or not. So yeah, so I think
Speaker 1: you were even a little bit younger than all of
Speaker 1: us because I was. I thought I was the youngest
Speaker 1: at twelve. I think you were just slightly younger than me.
Speaker 1: I may have started, I was. I either started at
Speaker 1: eleven or started at twelve. I don't, but I want
Speaker 1: to say twelve, Okay, same months, Okay, September Okay, I
Speaker 1: was born in May. So I'm just a few years
Speaker 1: older than you. Okay, a few months, not a few years.
Speaker 1: Few months older okay. Wow. And so so that puts
Speaker 1: me two years or at least a year and a
Speaker 1: half older than you, which is significant at that age. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Ben was somewhere in between two and benc Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ben is also in September of eighty one, right, I
Speaker 1: he I think he is. I think he. I mean
Speaker 1: his birthday is definitely and all right, so a year
Speaker 1: year older. I remembered feeling, you know, younger, and then
Speaker 1: to just continue on. Danielle. When you came in, I
Speaker 1: just I was like, this is my this is my person.
Speaker 1: Like we had school together, we had the same teacher,
Speaker 1: and you were just so friendly, and your mom was
Speaker 1: and all of your mom's will I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think I got to to hang out with yours. My
Speaker 1: parents who pop in and out. Yeah, yeah, but everybody's
Speaker 1: mom's were so great. It was just a family, truly
Speaker 1: a family thing. It was. It was great. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: remember your mom very well, and I remember her her
Speaker 1: beautiful accent, and she she called your dad Boogie. That's
Speaker 1: that was that's my dad's name. And she would say
Speaker 1: she would say, well Boogie, And I just every time
Speaker 1: she'd say anything, I think I could listen to you
Speaker 1: read anything just so soothing and so sweet. And it
Speaker 1: was so obvious that your family was so close and
Speaker 1: you were so supported and loved, and um, you know
Speaker 1: you did you always you kind of made all of
Speaker 1: us in the nicest way. You weren't intentionally doing it,
Speaker 1: but you made all of us look bad because you
Speaker 1: did have such great manners, and you would say, hell,
Speaker 1: you would be like you were so polite and and
Speaker 1: so on top of it, you were so professional and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, man, I am I remembering correctly that you
Speaker 1: you could sing really well too. Uh well, you're kind
Speaker 1: I mean I did sing. I wouldn't sing very well,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, I mean I remember that. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I have this indelible memory of you, like singing on
Speaker 1: set or like talking about music all the time. Like
Speaker 1: I just remember being like, no, I did I did,
Speaker 1: like seeing I did. Later in college, I was in
Speaker 1: an acapella group. I was never going to cut a
Speaker 1: record deal, but you know, I enjoyed it, Okay, I
Speaker 1: gotta know, because they always have the best names, like
Speaker 1: chock full of notes. So what was your acapella group name? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course we were called Inny Window. And the reason
Speaker 1: we were called that is because we were the first
Speaker 1: co ed acapella group on campus. So we were like
Speaker 1: the sketchy acapella kids that had female and males in
Speaker 1: the same group in a in a southern college. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Let's talk about then you were on
Speaker 1: the first season. How many episodes do you know about
Speaker 1: how many episodes you did in the first season? What
Speaker 1: what was the total number was it twenty two you
Speaker 1: like that? Of the of the first season? I think
Speaker 1: we did. There were twenty two. Yeah, so I wasn't
Speaker 1: in the was it? Okay? I can't remember. So I
Speaker 1: wasn't in the pilot, And I think there was like
Speaker 1: one other that I wasn't in where they brought Rue
Speaker 1: McClanahan in and like they couldn't afford me that week
Speaker 1: or so ye a rolling Stone, right, Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: didn't do those two, but I think everything it was
Speaker 1: in all the other I think so. Actually, technically you
Speaker 1: were in all of them because even in the pilot,
Speaker 1: you're in the opening title sequence, so you see there
Speaker 1: Norris right there, and then there's people are like what
Speaker 1: he wasn't not why he wasn't in the first episode?
Speaker 1: To what happened at the end of the first season,
Speaker 1: and how when what was that conversation? How did you
Speaker 1: find out you weren't going to be in season two?
Speaker 1: And what was that dialogue? Because I've never known the story? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you you all may know more than I do,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I mean it. When I left,
Speaker 1: I left on good terms, feeling great about what the
Speaker 1: work we've done. It felt like the show was doing well,
Speaker 1: and I felt like I had contributed and done my part,
Speaker 1: and nobody was coming up to me saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be back. Um. So as far as
Speaker 1: I when I was saying goodbye to you guys, I
Speaker 1: just thought, well, I'll see you in a couple of months. UM.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't right away, but I you know, at
Speaker 1: some point again, I got a phone call at home
Speaker 1: and UM, it wasn't Michael, it was another one of
Speaker 1: the producers and they just said, we love wee. He's
Speaker 1: done incredible, but we're not bringing him back. And UM,
Speaker 1: and I think what I what we were told? They
Speaker 1: didn't talk to me they Um. What how asked along
Speaker 1: to me was that you know, Friends was doing really
Speaker 1: well and that ABC wanted to age the show up
Speaker 1: and that you know I have this perpetual baby face,
Speaker 1: are better or worse, and so that I just did
Speaker 1: old and continue on. And I certainly accepted that. UM,
Speaker 1: but it didn't I didn't really understand it, and my
Speaker 1: gut it didn't necessarily feel like maybe the whole story
Speaker 1: and maybe it was. I don't know. UM. For for
Speaker 1: anybody listening, what I would say is the best sitting
Speaker 1: here as a forty year old and and knowing that honestly,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't even matter at this point, Like what
Speaker 1: what The lesson that that this taught me at a
Speaker 1: really young age is that, especially as an actor, because
Speaker 1: we all go through this, you can put your heart
Speaker 1: and soul into something, you know, do a pretty and
Speaker 1: and things can still not work out the way that
Speaker 1: you think because of any other number of circumstances or
Speaker 1: reasons that are beyond your control. And at twelve, that
Speaker 1: was a hard thing to learn. I need it. We
Speaker 1: of course, I was like, well, what did I do wrong?
Speaker 1: It must have been something you and your parents getting
Speaker 1: a divorce. You're like, you blame yourself, you know, we
Speaker 1: just immediately think that you did something, and um, you know.
Speaker 1: It taught me a valuable lesson early, and I think
Speaker 1: anybody listening can identify with that, whether you're an actor
Speaker 1: or not, whether you're putting your all into a relationship
Speaker 1: or you work at a bank or whatever, there's things
Speaker 1: that happened, and it just there are things out of
Speaker 1: your control. All you can control was what you do.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I heard so I heard a story
Speaker 1: that I don't know if this is true or not,
Speaker 1: but this is the story that I heard. I heard
Speaker 1: that ABC because the lead in was Family Matters and
Speaker 1: Family Matters big breakout star who was also not starting
Speaker 1: on that did not start in the show was Julia
Speaker 1: White as Erkele, and so they did. ABC did not
Speaker 1: want to have two shows back to back. That quote
Speaker 1: unquote featured a nerd. Wasn't the story that I heard.
Speaker 1: And I heard that years after because I don't want
Speaker 1: to speak for Danielle and Ryder, but none of us
Speaker 1: knew you weren't going to be on the seconds, Like
Speaker 1: I don't think we all thought you were coming back.
Speaker 1: And then it was nobody calls and because we're we're kids,
Speaker 1: so nobody calls and says we're going to change the
Speaker 1: show or this person is not coming. You just show
Speaker 1: up at the table read and you look around, you go, wait,
Speaker 1: where's Lee? Like that's exactly I knew anything. I heard
Speaker 1: different things. I think I heard a version of that.
Speaker 1: And then later when I came back to do Girl
Speaker 1: Meets World, you know, Michael took my wife and I
Speaker 1: out to dinner and we had a really lovely conversation
Speaker 1: and I'm sure part of this was that he was
Speaker 1: trying to get me to do grow meats were all
Speaker 1: you know. Again, I would just say, the best feeling
Speaker 1: is that ultimately lay mentorl didn't need me. This show
Speaker 1: wasn't you guys were amazing and and and luckily for me, um,
Speaker 1: you know, things worked out. I was able to go
Speaker 1: on and do other shows and move on with my life.
Speaker 1: And it just taught me so early on that your
Speaker 1: your self worth and your value cannot be wrapped up
Speaker 1: in being a and kid actor or it'll or it'll
Speaker 1: crush you, you know. And so I I learned that
Speaker 1: really quickly, and I'm you know, for better or worse,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I learned it because it's helped me
Speaker 1: a lot over the course of my life. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: we missed you, we really did. Thanks well, we found
Speaker 1: reasons to get back to It's been good. Hold on,
Speaker 1: I want to jump in real quickly. Do you still
Speaker 1: get recognized for mankas? Like when you get recognized is
Speaker 1: it mostly mincas even or one treat? What? Which is? Uh?
Speaker 1: It depends on the age. But I'll always get recognized
Speaker 1: for me because two weeks ago I was running through
Speaker 1: the airport late for a flight you know, doing the
Speaker 1: home alone dash through the airport and I hear someone, YEO,
Speaker 1: hold the plane for Mancas, you know, as I'm like running,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just I wanted to give him
Speaker 1: a peace sign on the way. I just know it
Speaker 1: will always be there. But I'm so I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of it, and I'm grateful. You know, I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: need to call right now, absolutely, please bracket this. I
Speaker 1: need a hold the plane for Mancas shirt. I want
Speaker 1: one of those, because that's awesome, that's amazing. Love that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I want to I want to jump back in
Speaker 1: and Lee, you don't have to answer this question if
Speaker 1: you don't want, but I have to ask. Michael called
Speaker 1: you with good news, called you for the Charcoal Sins.
Speaker 1: He called you to offer you Girl Meets World. Did
Speaker 1: you ever hear from Michael after they decided to let
Speaker 1: you go after season one? Yeah? I think I think
Speaker 1: he called at some point. He wasn't the initial phone call, um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no he called, and and you know there
Speaker 1: was something about we're going to find another show for you,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, you just you just take
Speaker 1: it all in, and you know, I just had to
Speaker 1: go back to school, get back into my routine. Of course,
Speaker 1: all my friends were watching Boy Meets World, so you know, like,
Speaker 1: what where are you? You know, that must have been
Speaker 1: so hard. It was tough, but you know, you just
Speaker 1: you have to pick up and move on with your life.
Speaker 1: And um, and now looking back, I'm just I'm grateful
Speaker 1: that I got to be part of it, even if
Speaker 1: it was for a year, and then to come back
Speaker 1: and do the other stuff it was it was really
Speaker 1: cool and interesting to come back and do the graduation episode.
Speaker 1: It's like a totally different show. I mean it just
Speaker 1: felt the set and every and just I mean obviously
Speaker 1: you guys have aged, and you know, there weren't parents
Speaker 1: running around everywhere. It was different exactly. So tell us
Speaker 1: then a little bit about the decision to come back
Speaker 1: and do a few episodes of Girl Meets World. What
Speaker 1: did you have to think about it? Was it an
Speaker 1: immediate yes? Like what was the process for you? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I Um, I mean of course I was humbled and
Speaker 1: flattered when they asked, and um, I wasn't sure. It
Speaker 1: wasn't um, it wasn't like a no or yes right away.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about it. And of course Michael
Speaker 1: was like, let's go to dinner, and because I was
Speaker 1: in l A and so you know, we went out
Speaker 1: to dinner and he again said some very nice things
Speaker 1: and said we never should have let you go. You
Speaker 1: should we should have kept you on the show all
Speaker 1: the stuff, which is really nicely, truly nice, absolutely true.
Speaker 1: Should have It was very kind, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: he I just said, look, you know, I tell me
Speaker 1: about what you're planning to do with the character. And
Speaker 1: he told me about the character of Farcle and told
Speaker 1: me how great Corey was, and um, you know, just
Speaker 1: I thought this could be really be cool. And this
Speaker 1: was before I was an actual dad in real life,
Speaker 1: but I knew that I wanted to be a dad,
Speaker 1: and I thought, how great would this be eventually to
Speaker 1: be able to show you know, hopefully my kid and
Speaker 1: and show him season one of Boy Meets World, which
Speaker 1: I can't wait too. He's going to get a kick
Speaker 1: out of that and be a long time before I
Speaker 1: let him watch One Tree Hill or Zodiac. So that's goodness. Um,
Speaker 1: so I'll show him that to start with, gone, girl,
Speaker 1: You're not my wife would not be bleased. So um,
Speaker 1: so you know, I can't wait for him to watch
Speaker 1: Boy and a Girl. I mean, that's it's really special
Speaker 1: to be able to have something like that. And um,
Speaker 1: it was so much fun. I mean, Corey got but
Speaker 1: all of those kids were just incredibly talented and had
Speaker 1: it so much more together than I did. I mean
Speaker 1: I just was really blown away at how smart they
Speaker 1: were and what gifted actors they were, so, um, really
Speaker 1: really fun and it was just fun to get to
Speaker 1: see you guys. I missed you. I mean it really
Speaker 1: was a bummer. I mean I felt like anytime I
Speaker 1: see you guys, I sort of I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: twelve again. But we had this really kind of formative
Speaker 1: experience and of course it went on for you all.
Speaker 1: But um, you know I did. I did miss you guys,
Speaker 1: and so I feel like I shared that with you
Speaker 1: and and and even if it is just for a year,
Speaker 1: and so it's always fun to get together and have
Speaker 1: that that bond, you know, just seeing us all together,
Speaker 1: I literally feel like I feel like we no time
Speaker 1: have passed it, and I just want to keep I
Speaker 1: want to keep the feeling like I want to do
Speaker 1: it all the time we can. Um, I have a
Speaker 1: I have a an acting question for you from from
Speaker 1: an acting standpoint. As a actor, did you feel more
Speaker 1: connected to Almost Home in the Torkleson's or to boy
Speaker 1: Mew World. Um, I gosh, that's a tough question. Well,
Speaker 1: I I mean I felt connected to them for different reasons.
Speaker 1: I felt connected to the Torto Sens because I was
Speaker 1: playing a Southern kid, so and I was a Southern kid,
Speaker 1: so you know, there was no hiding the accent um.
Speaker 1: But the Tortal Sens was a single mom and it
Speaker 1: was a very different family dynamic than what I had.
Speaker 1: Um And I think you know, by the time I
Speaker 1: was playing Minkas, I was twelve, and there's a there's
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of growing up that happens between
Speaker 1: nine and twelve, and so I felt much more aware
Speaker 1: and understanding of a lot more things. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I was processing things differently, really thinking about Minkas as
Speaker 1: a character, whereas I feel like with the Tortal Sins,
Speaker 1: a lot of it was probably just a heightened version
Speaker 1: of me. With Again, with Faith Glass, I always had
Speaker 1: faith glasses. Whatever show I did, I never wore glasses,
Speaker 1: so you know that was always amazing. But um so
Speaker 1: reverse Clark Kent, the Reverse Clark can always, and you know,
Speaker 1: they made me wear them for every run threw. It
Speaker 1: was like I had to have them all and like
Speaker 1: I would get headaches because the lights would like shoot
Speaker 1: the light into my eyes, and like by the end
Speaker 1: of the run through, i'd like, you know, be taking
Speaker 1: to Advilain, like you know, going home, back to the
Speaker 1: oak Wood. But um, anyway, so a great question, but
Speaker 1: I I think just by the time I got to
Speaker 1: play Mincas, I was really thinking about it more from
Speaker 1: an acting standpoint of this is a character. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys knew me. I. I shared treats with him,
Speaker 1: but he I'm not Mincas and vice versa. And um,
Speaker 1: so I really enjoyed getting in his skin and figuring
Speaker 1: out like that type posture and you know he speaks
Speaker 1: of the very rhythmic and punching and that's not really me.
Speaker 1: So it was really fun to get to do that.
Speaker 1: Like I loved doing that. Do you have any specific
Speaker 1: favorite stories from your time on Boy Meats World, Like
Speaker 1: a favorite moment, a favorite behind the scenes memory, have
Speaker 1: so many. I mean I think film every filming, every
Speaker 1: episode was really fun. Um. The the episode where minkus
Speaker 1: Um gets drunk on you who because he gets the
Speaker 1: math problem wrong and it's like, you know, oh man,
Speaker 1: I forgot about it. And that was that was like
Speaker 1: an incredible and that was a roller coaster because that
Speaker 1: was another one where Michael wasn't thrilled with where it
Speaker 1: was after the first run through, and it was a
Speaker 1: lot of working and reworking to get it right. And
Speaker 1: then it when we got it in front of the audience,
Speaker 1: luckily it it worked. Um. So that was really fun um.
Speaker 1: And then you know, off camera, I just remember the
Speaker 1: times we all got to hang out as kids was
Speaker 1: just a blast. I remember, like writer, I think we
Speaker 1: went on a trip, you and Ben and I went
Speaker 1: we went like snow skiing or something, and oh you
Speaker 1: were on this yes, and you went like did you
Speaker 1: like bungee jump? I was like geez, I mean it
Speaker 1: was really growing up for me because I didn't have sibling,
Speaker 1: I didn't have older siblings, and so I really viewed
Speaker 1: you guys is like sort of older brothers in a way,
Speaker 1: really turning me onto things that I was not thinking about.
Speaker 1: Bungee jumping and a sense of the any sense of
Speaker 1: the no, of course that did you ski? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: we did that and then at Danielle. I have a
Speaker 1: really weird memory of you and I like on a
Speaker 1: bus going to I think they shut Disneyland down or something,
Speaker 1: and you and I were like in our own little world.
Speaker 1: I remember we were sitting on the bus, like playing
Speaker 1: this game that we had come up with where we
Speaker 1: just looked at each other and we had to guess
Speaker 1: the word that the other person was thinking. And so
Speaker 1: I would say, like rabbit, and you would be like, yes,
Speaker 1: it was rabbit. You're testing your psychic powers. Like what
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, just stupid, stupid, twelve year old stuff.
Speaker 1: But we were having so much fun. That must have
Speaker 1: been the holiday at Disneyland. For every holiday season they
Speaker 1: closed down Disneyland after five pm and open it up
Speaker 1: for just Disney employees, um, and it becomes an amazing
Speaker 1: season and they would bust us down. Our entire cast
Speaker 1: and crew would get to go down in a bus.
Speaker 1: It was like one of my favorite days of every year.
Speaker 1: One of the best perks of working for Disney was
Speaker 1: so much fun. You know. What I remember, Lee was
Speaker 1: that we would always play football and basketball out And
Speaker 1: then the thing that's really funny is we did a
Speaker 1: press day recently and Entertainment tonight holed up footage they
Speaker 1: have almost actually playing, but it is. It's all of
Speaker 1: us actually playing. And the funniest, funniest part was there's
Speaker 1: like five of us out there, four of us out
Speaker 1: there playing basketball. We play for a good minute, minute
Speaker 1: and a half and no one makes a basket. They
Speaker 1: eventually just started shooting you guys with cutting the basket
Speaker 1: like out of the shot, so that it just didn't
Speaker 1: know if you guys were making it. Hole. This is
Speaker 1: why we're actors. Yeah, I want to talk to you
Speaker 1: about your development as an actor post Boymates World, like
Speaker 1: because you went on to do more dramatic stuff and
Speaker 1: then of course, you know, if you think about the
Speaker 1: uh you know, the spectrum from Boy Meat's World to
Speaker 1: David Fincher films, Uh, that's pretty wide and you fit
Speaker 1: into both. So I'm curious, like, when did you start
Speaker 1: to realize the difference, like the different styles of acting
Speaker 1: or because up until not to go until boy Meets World,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you had only done sitcoms. So how did
Speaker 1: that happen? How did you grow as an actor post
Speaker 1: boy Meets World? Um, you know, it's it's interesting when
Speaker 1: I came back to North Carolina. I kept, you know,
Speaker 1: I was back in school, but I kept auditioning for things.
Speaker 1: And this was in the nineties when I think I
Speaker 1: heard you talk about this oppressive Like all the TV
Speaker 1: movies were in vogue, you know, in the nineties, and
Speaker 1: so that was what a lot of what was coming
Speaker 1: to North Carolina at the time. So I started getting
Speaker 1: hired to play these like battered and abused kids in
Speaker 1: these sad nineties TV movies. Um. But a very special
Speaker 1: movie of the week, very special movie of the week
Speaker 1: with like you know, Judith Light and Lindsay Wagner and
Speaker 1: Christopher Reeve and really know just but and and it
Speaker 1: was of course corny and and probably terrible, but it
Speaker 1: was my first taste of like doing dramatic stuff and
Speaker 1: not doing sitcom stuff. And I really got to see
Speaker 1: like the difference in you know, between what I had
Speaker 1: done on the sitcoms and what was going on there. Um.
Speaker 1: So that was sort of my first introduction to it. Um.
Speaker 1: And you know, I went on to college. I went
Speaker 1: to Wake Forest and I did theater. I didn't study theater,
Speaker 1: but I participated in theater at wake Forest and got
Speaker 1: to do Midsummer Night's Stream and really got to really
Speaker 1: have more of a real training because I've never had training.
Speaker 1: So that was really my first taste of like really studying, um,
Speaker 1: you know, Shakespeare and all of that, and so that
Speaker 1: that really helps me out a lot and just gave
Speaker 1: me a lot of good life experience too, as as
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you all know it's important to
Speaker 1: have that aspect as well. What did you study? What
Speaker 1: did you major? And I studied English. I was in
Speaker 1: English major. Yeah no math, no math now, but um,
Speaker 1: so all of that I think helped. And and you know,
Speaker 1: really when when I was fortunate enough to book Wintree Hill,
Speaker 1: um that that really you know, at tend your show,
Speaker 1: you're you're you get comfortable with drama and I got
Speaker 1: to mix in comedy as well. But the Fincher movies
Speaker 1: came up during that period, and uh, just I just
Speaker 1: felt so grateful. They're small parts, but just to even
Speaker 1: have that time with him and um work with incredible
Speaker 1: actors like that was just mind blowing. And yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: really grateful for every aspect of of what I've been
Speaker 1: able to do. It's just been from Boy Meets World
Speaker 1: to all of this, the different experiences just teach you
Speaker 1: so much and it's it's incredible. We got to talk
Speaker 1: about first, David Fincher talk to you about your work
Speaker 1: on Boy Meets World. Does David Fincher you know of
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World? He was, he must know. I we
Speaker 1: didn't specifically talk about it, but David Fincher is a
Speaker 1: fan of actors. He loves actors, and he loves making
Speaker 1: unconventional choices, taking from someone you know, like a Neil
Speaker 1: Patrick Harris and putting him in Gone Girl. And he really,
Speaker 1: you know, values actors and believes that that they can
Speaker 1: do more than whatever they've been pegged, you know, in
Speaker 1: the TV show. And thank god that someone like him exists, because,
Speaker 1: as you all know, that's what we're all fighting most
Speaker 1: of the time after we've done something like that. But
Speaker 1: he was also notorious for like hundred and fifty takes.
Speaker 1: He's one of those kinds of guys. Right, Do you
Speaker 1: have like a great Fincher like a long night story? Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: of course. My very first shot in Zodie, it's the
Speaker 1: opening of the movie to Zodiac. I run up to
Speaker 1: the car and there's a girl driving the car and
Speaker 1: I leaned my head in the window and I say
Speaker 1: something like I don't know where have you? What's taking
Speaker 1: you so long? Or you're late or something. And we
Speaker 1: shot at seventy six times and it's literally was the
Speaker 1: most deflating thing. I'm walking back resetting every time, and
Speaker 1: they're backing the car up and they're pulling it back
Speaker 1: in and I'm you know, and every and I think
Speaker 1: it was right. You might appreciate this. I think it
Speaker 1: was the first film that was fully shot on a
Speaker 1: red camera, I like, fully digital, And so that was
Speaker 1: an interesting thing too, because we would do all these
Speaker 1: takes and then I would hear him say delete, and
Speaker 1: as he would delete them, and it would of course
Speaker 1: crush my soul because I'm like, what if I don't
Speaker 1: get it as good the next time, maybe we should
Speaker 1: hang on to it. Yeah. He would call out which scenes,
Speaker 1: which which takes? Did you do it in front of
Speaker 1: the actors, and it was like the craziest thing for
Speaker 1: people to get used to, Like, yeah, I mean didn't work,
Speaker 1: but seventy was great. I went back to my chair
Speaker 1: after that first night and was sitting in my chair
Speaker 1: kind of dejected, and and a p a walked up
Speaker 1: and was like hey, don't feel bad. Mark Ruffalo was
Speaker 1: like sixty three and Robert Downey Jr. Was like seventy two.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's just the way that it is.
Speaker 1: And once I realized that, I was like, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he really believes in actors getting beyond like out of
Speaker 1: their head, and he believes that you just have to
Speaker 1: say it so many times that you're not even aware
Speaker 1: of what you're saying. Like that's his sort of version
Speaker 1: of getting actors to be as president as possible. But
Speaker 1: I can imagine it must be so difficult if you
Speaker 1: don't know that going in And yeah, and I actually
Speaker 1: responded to it well because I think coming from the
Speaker 1: child actor background, where it is often trilled in our heads,
Speaker 1: that was sort of a crutch for me. And so
Speaker 1: for me, I actually really appreciated it because it broke
Speaker 1: down a lot of that um And I know some
Speaker 1: actors don't love it as much, but it worked. It
Speaker 1: worked for me, So it's so cool. Well, and you
Speaker 1: have to rely on Mankus to do all of your
Speaker 1: fincher stuff, like what would make us have done here?
Speaker 1: I get that. Yeah, no, it's check. Actually, we are
Speaker 1: so happy you joined us for this episode. Where can
Speaker 1: we find you? Now? What are you working on now?
Speaker 1: Just give us any sort of update and where people
Speaker 1: can find you? Yeah you can. You can. All the
Speaker 1: grandmothers and grandfathers listening can find me on Facebook or
Speaker 1: its official. UM. I do have I do have a
Speaker 1: like a private Instagram that's just for family and friends,
Speaker 1: which I would you can put that in our chat.
Speaker 1: Welcome you all to UM. But you know, I'm an
Speaker 1: old fashioned guy. I just nobody cares about me eating
Speaker 1: a sandwich or whatever, so I just keep all that
Speaker 1: stuff private. But you know, but yeah, I'm there on
Speaker 1: Facebook and UM. Professionally and personally, I'm good. I'm so
Speaker 1: lucky to have found just the most wonderful person, my
Speaker 1: wife Andrea, and we're so blessed to have our son,
Speaker 1: and my parents are still healthy thankfully, and and UM,
Speaker 1: you know, things are good. So it's it's thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. It's wonderful to see you guys. Thanks
Speaker 1: for UM. I mean, I don't know I I for saying
Speaker 1: goodbye yet, but but thanks for being so special to
Speaker 1: me and always being so welcoming over the years. I mean,
Speaker 1: you are you are a forever family member of us,
Speaker 1: and UM I really, I I can't believe that you
Speaker 1: that all of our memories were just in that one season,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I have so many memories with you,
Speaker 1: and I wish, I wish we did have a full
Speaker 1: seven years of them. Um, but should and you're right,
Speaker 1: we should have it, should have it should have been
Speaker 1: that way. Boy meets retirement home. It's coming. Can't take
Speaker 1: the poll. I can't do. Maybe maybe Fincher will direct
Speaker 1: and you'll change your mind. Yes, I would do it
Speaker 1: for that. I would do it for that. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you again for joining us for this. We love you
Speaker 1: so much, and please give our love to your family Andrea,
Speaker 1: your son, and your mom and dad. Same same to
Speaker 1: you all. And I know my mom would be mad
Speaker 1: at me if I don't. Please tell them hello from
Speaker 1: my mom and dad as well. Of course all of
Speaker 1: our parents were close. Yes, no, they'll they'll be very
Speaker 1: excited and they're they're proud of all of you. So yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: well we love you guys. Thanks, bye bye. I mean,
Speaker 1: how is it possible that we just it feels like
Speaker 1: no time has passed. He's amazing, he's great. It was
Speaker 1: so great too. I mean I first connected with him
Speaker 1: when we did Girl Me the World. I ended up
Speaker 1: directing a couple episodes with him in it, and it
Speaker 1: was just so much fun to be adults together and
Speaker 1: to talk about what we do. And you know, he's
Speaker 1: he's truly an actor's actor, Like he's ruining those people
Speaker 1: he's That's why I wanted to ask him about acting
Speaker 1: is because he went from nailing the sitcom performance at gelve,
Speaker 1: like being above and beyond anybody, and then you know,
Speaker 1: going on to do with such great work um and
Speaker 1: and such wide you know, varied work stylistically, and he
Speaker 1: knows what he's doing, he knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: It's just such a great That's that's the thing when
Speaker 1: you're that good, that young, and then you decide to
Speaker 1: study the craft, It's like, man, how sky's the limit
Speaker 1: at that point because you're just so good when you
Speaker 1: start amazing, Yeah, I I can't believe it. Im. I
Speaker 1: also had a very similar experience writer working with him
Speaker 1: on Girl Meat's World, like just looking at each other
Speaker 1: and being like, I can't believe we're here, Like we're adults,
Speaker 1: we're just adults together and and he's right. Lee and
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time together. Um, we were
Speaker 1: you know, you guys were kind of inseparable on the set. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were inseparable. We were we were the youngest, um
Speaker 1: and uh, we were. We were very close, I think.
Speaker 1: I think, um, even though Orange County is a long
Speaker 1: way away from North Carolina, there were a lot of like,
Speaker 1: there were still a lot of similarities. I think we
Speaker 1: both felt just kind of out of our element a
Speaker 1: little bit. Um and so yeah, we were very close.
Speaker 1: And then being together with him on Girl Meat's World
Speaker 1: was amazing, and I think we exchanged information. We were like, oh,
Speaker 1: we should get together. He wasn't living far from me
Speaker 1: in l A. When he was living in l A.
Speaker 1: And then you know it just being an adult kind
Speaker 1: of sucks sometimes and you you lose contact. So I
Speaker 1: want to get all of his information so that um
Speaker 1: we can actually so you can go you can go
Speaker 1: pick him up there. I remember being very happy to
Speaker 1: discover that he had no bitterness. You know that he
Speaker 1: does not carrying around this like because it could so
Speaker 1: easily drive somebody crazy to be known as Minkus your
Speaker 1: entire life, and then also to only have done one season,
Speaker 1: and you know that that sense of like he described like,
Speaker 1: did I what do they do wrong? When he finds
Speaker 1: out he's not coming back for the second season and
Speaker 1: for him to rebound from that be so confident, healthy
Speaker 1: and put it into such a healthy perspective. Um And
Speaker 1: I remember when we when we reconnected on Girl MEAs World.
Speaker 1: I was so appreciative of that because I was always worried,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember being like, what happened to lead?
Speaker 1: Does least? You know? Does Lee hate us all? Does
Speaker 1: Lee think? Does he resent this time on this show?
Speaker 1: And to find out that you've heard that from other
Speaker 1: guests that have like that were let go or something
Speaker 1: where they it bothered them for years and years and
Speaker 1: years they carried it with them. Well, think about how
Speaker 1: different it would be now if we had cell phones
Speaker 1: back then that we didn't have an easy way of
Speaker 1: being like, hey man, what happened? Where are you? We
Speaker 1: didn't know, like it was just we thought we were
Speaker 1: going to see him in a few months, and then
Speaker 1: he didn't return for season two and then it was
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, I guess he's just out of our lives.
Speaker 1: Like it was. Also, it's it's a really bizarre kind
Speaker 1: of unspoken reminder that we could go at any time.
Speaker 1: All of us know what I meant. I meant, you
Speaker 1: know what I meant as actors on the show, but
Speaker 1: also we could die at That's not what I meant,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I meant that we were we
Speaker 1: were lucky, lucky to be on Board World. And then
Speaker 1: it was like we saw it with Lee, and then
Speaker 1: we saw it with Tony Quinn, and then we saw it.
Speaker 1: There's a number of times where it was just like
Speaker 1: you think you're doing this and your kicking butt and
Speaker 1: you're having a great time, and then you get a
Speaker 1: phone call, Hey, you're not on the show anymore. And
Speaker 1: so it was that was we never really it's a
Speaker 1: pretty intense environment. We take that for granted now, but
Speaker 1: that is a weird thing, this, you know, sort of
Speaker 1: Hunger Games quality of of being on a TV show
Speaker 1: like we probably you know that that. And he was better,
Speaker 1: He was a much but I always speak for myself.
Speaker 1: He was a much better actor than I was when
Speaker 1: we were kids, a much better. There was no reason
Speaker 1: for him to go other than he went, like for
Speaker 1: whether it was political, whether it was ABC, whether it
Speaker 1: was money, whatever it was, Hey, thanks you were awesome.
Speaker 1: Buy and I'm not sure we ever, as kids, especially
Speaker 1: ever discussed that where it's like, Wow, he was here
Speaker 1: and now he's not, and that could happen to any
Speaker 1: of us at any time. I think we discussed it,
Speaker 1: and I think we were scared of it, but we
Speaker 1: also felt like we could have we could avoid it
Speaker 1: by you know, doing our job and not messing up.
Speaker 1: And that kind of pressure is really intense. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the pressure that we internalized and in retrospect, you know,
Speaker 1: as a healthy grown I think grown ups probably do
Speaker 1: this too on TV shows, but I think in particular
Speaker 1: on our show, there was a fear of being fired constantly.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was that was and that was an
Speaker 1: all pervasive feeling, maybe until like the fifth by by
Speaker 1: you know, like fifth sixth season, we knew we weren't
Speaker 1: going I mean, they weren't gonna fire Shawn in season
Speaker 1: five to Pango wasn't going anywhere, certainly for the first
Speaker 1: couple of years, though you yeah, well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: I think I agree with you in Prince in general,
Speaker 1: but we also renegotiated contracts at times, and I remember
Speaker 1: being scared and I remember feeling like and I also
Speaker 1: wanted out off the show. At a certain point, and
Speaker 1: I remember being wooed back, and so there was always
Speaker 1: this you know, this pressure that was intense because there
Speaker 1: was a lot of a lot of power on the line,
Speaker 1: money and fame and the sense of self worth and
Speaker 1: and we'll have to work again if I leave this
Speaker 1: show or it's uh yeah, wow, Well it's a fun
Speaker 1: way to end that episode. Sorry, I lovely. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad he was here. That was really great. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to jump into recapping the episode Killer Bees is
Speaker 1: his number one oh five, directed by David Trainer. Um,
Speaker 1: we're going to get into that next. Um, but this
Speaker 1: was really fun. And be sure to follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram pod Meats World Show and you can email us
Speaker 1: pod Meats World Show at gmail dot com. And then
Speaker 1: we got March March. It's lots of shirts. We're gonna
Speaker 1: do a David Fincher shirt. We're probably going to do
Speaker 1: a shirt about holding the plane for me Gus. We're
Speaker 1: gonna have so many shirts. But you know what, you know,
Speaker 1: what somebody suggested, and I think is a really good
Speaker 1: idea is muggs. I would like a shirt with mugs
Speaker 1: on it. Great idea? Is that not? Did I misunderstand. Sorry,
Speaker 1: actually the reverse is probably true. It's gonna be all
Speaker 1: It's my turn. We love you all, pod dismissed. Pod
Speaker 1: Beats World is an I heart podcast producer hosted by
Speaker 1: Daniel Fisher, Wilford L and Right or Strong. Executive producers
Speaker 1: Jensen Carpet and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production,
Speaker 1: Daniel Romo, producer and editor Tara suit Batch, producer, The
Speaker 1: Rain Rerez Engineering Boy meets World super fan Easton Allen.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Pod Meets World Show or email
Speaker 1: us at Pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: M