1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: The news of John Bender's death spread like wildfire around 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: Costa Rica. So did the revelation that Anne was the 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: prime suspect in his assumed murder. The couple who seemingly 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: had it all good looks, love and money had lost everything. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: The question of what had happened and whether Anne had 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger became a national pastime author Carol Vaughan. 7 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: Americans would have cocktail parties and argue over whether they 8 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: thought she was guilty or not, and what really happened there? 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: What happened to her, Jules? And it was hot. 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't just hot in Costa Rica. The story went 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: global and. 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: There were whole detective magazines that devoted issues to her, 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: saying that she digged and oh poor saying I don't 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: think she did it. I mean, everyone had an opinion, 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: and everyone commented freely. 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: And in dear Monte Valley itself, where the Benders had 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: built their enormous house, everyone was talking about it. Jesse, 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: their neighbor. 19 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 3: It was obviously the biggest news in the valley, and 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: it got around fast. 21 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: John Korvic, whose place was nearby, said it was all 22 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: so predictable. 23 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: No matter how big the house is you're losing your mind. 24 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 4: Those two were up on top of that hill by themselves, watching. 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: It rain with monkey screaming for days and days and 26 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: days and days. Suspicions, faries told you, sos, and plain 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: old tittle tattle erupted. Everyone had an opinion about what 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: really happened on the fourth floor of that huge house, 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: made more fevered by the discovery of hordes of precious stones. 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: Carol Vaughn. 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: They packed up sixteen suitcases full of loose jaws that 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: the Benners had just sitting around there. 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: Bedroom diamonds, opals, rubies. Were they the trinkets of multimillionaires 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: or did they serve some other more nefarious purpose. John 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: Corvick had a theory. 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: So say I wanted to fly from here to there 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: and bring a couple million bucks, to be hell of 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: a lot easier to bring a couple of stones, and 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 3: it is to bring a suit caseful of cash. 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: And there were other stories, incredible and unfounded stories doing 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: the rounds. 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: One thing I had heard that he had a tunnel 43 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 3: going to an underground bunker with full of guns and things. 44 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's true, but that was the story. 45 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: But at the heart of it all was anne, had 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: this fragile, beautiful but desperately ill woman really murdered her husband? 47 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: Would she have been capable of carrying out such a crime, 48 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: And supposing she had, why, what would have been her motive? 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: Nicole Korlvic. 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 4: I don't know the truth of the matter and what 51 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 4: really happened. I heard that she was dead and that 52 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 4: he was trying to make some sort of concoction to 53 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 4: cure her with various medicinal plants. So if she had 54 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 4: any moto, that may have had something to do with it, 55 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 4: mind you. But on the what side of that, meaning 56 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 4: when he does that a little bit nuts, I'm sure 57 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 4: it's capable of killing him. Welsh, Well, you know who 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: knows what happened out there? 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: Well, every angle and aspect of the story was chewed over. 60 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: The Costa Rican police convinced they had their culprit, were 61 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: putting together a case and a The woman at the 62 00:03:46,520 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: heart of it all was in hospital, very sick from 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: exactly right. Media and iHeart podcasts produced by Blanchard House. 64 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: This is Helen Heaven. I'm Becky Milligan. Chapter six, The 65 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: Folly of Two. We're in a brightly lit corridor, A 66 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: few people wait on plastic chairs. Poppy, my producer, tells 67 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the receptionists we're here. At the time of the murder, 68 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: Anne was a patient of psychiatrist doctor Lizano, one of 69 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: Costa Rica's top experts on bipolar disorder. He also treated 70 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: the symptoms of lymes disease, which can cause brain fog 71 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: and increased anxiety and depression. For Anne, it wasn't just 72 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: a physical disease. The day after John's death in January 73 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: twenty ten, Jose Pizarro, the Bender's head of security, rushed 74 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: down to the privately run Seema Hospital in San Jose 75 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: to be seen by doctor Lozano. She was in a 76 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: terrible state. It's rare that doctors talk about their patients, 77 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: but doctor Lozano agreed to speak to us in his 78 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: private clinic. What he had to tell us about Anne 79 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: would throw a completely new light on her relationship with John. 80 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: He was running a bit late, but we were eventually 81 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: shown into his consulting room late in the afternoon. 82 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 5: Navia, Hello, touch. 83 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: He'd had a busy day and had a somewhat long 84 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: suffering expression on his face, but still he welcome us 85 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: with a wave of his hand. His gray hair was 86 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: slicked back. He had a neatly trimmed beard and mustache, 87 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: and despite being weary, he had a friendly bedside manner 88 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: about him. I got a sense that Anne would have 89 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: been reassured by his presence. 90 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 6: You're English, yes, me? Motherel was British, really yeah, Suffolk 91 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 6: from have Hill, Suffolk. 92 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: I asked him to tell me about the day Jose 93 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: rushed Anne into hospital after John's death. 94 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 6: I was in my office and I was told that 95 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 6: she was on her way. Pizarro was wringing her and 96 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 6: I went to emergency ward and she was sitting on 97 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 6: a wheelchair, very very thin. I had not seen her 98 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 6: in several months. She was very very thin for Lakita 99 00:06:54,080 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 6: who say Spanish, and very very thin. Rail did her 100 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 6: because she was in shock. And I was told that 101 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 6: her husband had died. And that was as far as 102 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 6: there was all information again at that moment. 103 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: But he did notice something, something very strange. 104 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 6: She was with a shutter or into the cardigan on 105 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 6: but well I could see of her arms were bumps. 106 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: All over her arms were bumps and saws, and some 107 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: were infected badly. He couldn't work out what could have 108 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: caused them. They crossed his mind that she might have 109 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: been bitten by some kind of insects in the jungle. 110 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: Whatever the cause, he was horrified by Anne's appearance, emaciated 111 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: and in a kind of flat state, just staring blankly 112 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: into space. What did you actually think when you saw 113 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: her looking like that? 114 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 6: Coming from a psychiatrist, one I'm going to see is deep. 115 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 6: I felt sorry for her. I felt I said, poor thing. 116 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 6: I mean, poor poor girl. I mean, what has happened? 117 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 6: Not only her husband just passed away. She's full of bombs, 118 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 6: She's psychotic. Jesus meant terrible. 119 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: Before he could find out what had caused all the 120 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: bumps and saws, she needed treatments straight away for her 121 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: most acute symptoms. What do you do as a psychiatrist 122 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,479 Speaker 1: to help. 123 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 6: Her in that case? I tried to comfort her, which 124 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 6: was just me trying to be nice. 125 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: What did you do? 126 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 6: I put her on the medication immediately? 127 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: But what had caused those bumps? Doctor Lozano would make 128 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: sure to find out later. She was put on a 129 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: cocktail of medications. She was in a very bad way. 130 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: She hardly spoke. Doctor Lozano barely recognized her hearing all this, 131 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: I can't help but think back to that comment as 132 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: Valdo Rojas, the head of staff, made about Anne, that 133 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: the vibrant woman he first met in two thousand slowly vanished. 134 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: Ten years in the jungle with John had taken such 135 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: a toll on her physically, she'd declined, but also mentally. 136 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: I wondered what she'd been like when doctor Lazano first 137 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: met her, compared to his desperately sick patient in the wheelchair. 138 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 6: She was a nice, pretty young woman, pretty and had 139 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 6: two sides to her. 140 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: On the one hand, there was Anne in tattered worklothes 141 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: in the jungle, looking after the animal sanctuary. Then there 142 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: was Anne, the urban sophisticate, in designer clothes, every bit 143 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,239 Speaker 1: the cosmopolitan daughter of an international financier. 144 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 6: She was taking care of the animals in the south, 145 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 6: and then she would come back and she would come 146 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 6: to San Jose, and they used to travel a lot. 147 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 6: Then the employees told me that she used to go 148 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 6: around with boots and jeans, and you know, very into 149 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 6: the farm life. But then here she would be. 150 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 7: Very elegant, fancy lady, very nice person, a little silent, 151 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 7: I would say, she would she would She was not 152 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 7: a big talker. 153 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 6: She was like, you know, careful into conversations. 154 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: Here we were speaking to Anne psychiatrists of many years 155 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: and yet pinning down the real Anne has proved different. 156 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: Cult So we've waded through articles and interviews and spoke 157 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: to old friends. Who is Anne Bender and could her 158 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: background provide a clue to whether she would ever be 159 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: capable of murder. In an interview for CNN Ken Patton, 160 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: Anne's brother reflected on a younger Anne, saying she'd always 161 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: had a very strong bond with animals. They both grew 162 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: up in Rio de Janeiro, and Anne was very popular 163 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: and outgoing at school. He said she hung out with 164 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: the cool crowd and says that it was in her 165 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: preteens that things changed. Something was weird, something was different, 166 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: she said. As we know later she would be diagnosed 167 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: with bipolar disorder, a condition which can cause huge mood 168 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: swings with episodes of extreme highs and extreme lows. She 169 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: said that it could make her rather impulsive and might 170 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: explain decisions like moving to Virginia from the city at 171 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: the drop of a hat. We did manage to contact 172 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: one old friend who didn't want to do an interview, 173 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: but gave us the following information, which we've had voiced 174 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: up by an actor. 175 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 8: Ian attended the American International School in Lisbon. She attended 176 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 8: Ithaca University, with at least a year on their London campus. 177 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 8: She lived and worked in Baltimore post graduation. We were 178 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 8: really good friends and we kept in touch until she 179 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 8: met John and got married. Then she cut off all 180 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 8: ties with everyone, including me, everyone except her family. 181 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: We asked doctor Lozano about his sessions with Anne prior 182 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: to John's death. Did the relationship seem happy? He thought so. 183 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 6: I was very proud of Jean. 184 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Did you get the feeling that John was the love 185 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: of her life? 186 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 6: Yes, yes, matter of fact like at that time they 187 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 6: were very close together. When I say at the time, 188 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 6: because I was helping her for years. 189 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: But what really worried Dr Lozano was those bumps on 190 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: Anne's arms. What had caused them? Eventually she opened up 191 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: and told him it would be a startling revelation. 192 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 6: I asked her, what are these bumps? She said, well, 193 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 6: John was injecting me. 194 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: Yes, John was injecting And. 195 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 6: I said, oh, what was he injecting you? In the medication? 196 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 6: Because I was I had not prescribed injectable medication. He 197 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 6: was trying to help me with my pularity, and he 198 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 6: was giving me clear spring water injections under my skin 199 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 6: to heal me. 200 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: This admission would shock her. Psychiatrist, doctor Lozano, and change 201 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: how he saw the dynamic of the couple. 202 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 6: Said, and are you serious? Yes? Why not? I remember 203 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 6: that main conversation gave me the impression that she was 204 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 6: not in her right state of mind. 205 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Did it also make you wonder what state of mind 206 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: John was in when he was injecting her and what 207 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: he was trying to do? 208 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 6: I wrote and in the file, in the emergency file, 209 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 6: that Ann was psychotic at that moment, and that John 210 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 6: must have been psychotic too. 211 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: We asked as Valde about the injections not going yea, 212 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: And I never saw him do it, And I never 213 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: saw Anna with any punctures in her skin, never at all. 214 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: Was this why only John and Anne were allowed on 215 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: the fourth floor? Was this one of their secrets? Anne 216 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: would later say in interviews that she allowed John to 217 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: inject her. She told Outside magazine that he was experimenting 218 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: on her. She added, there was nothing non intense about 219 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: John's and my relationship. The saddest part is Anne's bumps 220 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: were infected. Far from saving her, they were making her sicker. 221 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: What had started as a pursuit to learn about natural 222 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: medicines in the jungle had become a dangerous delusion about 223 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: river water and its healing powers and perhaps John's ability 224 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: to find a cure where modern medicine had failed. Discovering 225 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: this reveal yielded something to doctor Lozano. He diagnosed Anne 226 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: with a rare disorder called folly adeu folly of two, 227 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: also known as shared psychotic disorder, a condition in which 228 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: two people with mental illnesses reinforce each other's psychosis. They 229 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: become more extreme together. 230 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: They alienated the professionals that they dealt with. They didn't 231 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: have strong friendships, They only had each other. They had 232 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: what her therapists called fully adeu, where you exacerbate the 233 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: other person's craziness. And it was just doomed. 234 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: Just don't we spoke to author Carol Vaughan about the injections. 235 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: She was sick, sick, sick. When she was admitted to 236 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: the hospital after he died, she was barely alive. She 237 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: was just hanging on by a thread. So putting myself 238 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: in that situation, I would have killed them. 239 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: Anne continues to deny any involvement in her husband's death. 240 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: Some people, including Carol, started to wonder could suicide and 241 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: cold blooded murder both be wrong. Was John's death in 242 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: fact a form of self defense? 243 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: If he didn't kill her, then jad to kill him. 244 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: I think that she saved her life. Frankly, I don't 245 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: think of that she killed him. I think she saved 246 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: her own life. 247 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: Self defense was never considered in court. Anne always stuck 248 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: to her story she did not kill her husband. Over 249 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: the six months Anne was in hospital, doctor Lozano kept 250 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: her close eye on his patient. 251 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 6: Considered her and sat with her to talk for about 252 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 6: an hour daily for the six months, trying to help 253 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 6: her overcome the grief of losing John and going through 254 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 6: all of that. Because I felt terrible for her, I mean, 255 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 6: such a nice person, I mean, young woman. My Latino 256 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 6: side came out and said, over Desita, I mean it 257 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 6: was something I felt. 258 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: It was unfair papla Sita that means poor little thing. 259 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 6: Remember how uncomfortable it was that she had a one 260 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 6: policeman all the time sitting at the door of her room. 261 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 6: That was disgusting. I thought it was absolutely unnecessary, but 262 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 6: is the law. 263 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: But however sick Anne was. She was the police's prime 264 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: suspect in her husband's murder. They posted an officer outside 265 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: her hospital room twenty four to seven. What did you 266 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: talk about all those times? Do you remember any one 267 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: particular conversation? 268 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 6: A lot about John. He used to ride his four 269 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 6: wheeler and go to see the sunset from the hill 270 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 6: and then come back. There was more that kind of conversation. 271 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Lozano noticed after a few months, Anne was improving. 272 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 6: She was more relaxed, and she had more friends, and 273 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 6: she was not a bardy girl, but she was more 274 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 6: social and still always talking about John. 275 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: And when she talked about him, did she tell you 276 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: that she had a feeling he might do this, or 277 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: that there were any hints, or. 278 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 6: That he might take his life. Yes, she was always 279 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 6: concerned about John taking his life. 280 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: At the end of six months, Anne's health had improved. 281 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: She was able to walk, she gained weight, her bipolar 282 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: disorder had stabilized. She also had the support of her brother, Ken, 283 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: who was renting an apartment in San Jose. But Borachyanne 284 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: was not as she'd left it. The police had emptied 285 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: her beloved home. Everything was gone, no tiffany lamps, no TV, 286 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: no microwave, and no staff and told us Valdo she'd 287 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,239 Speaker 1: never stay in the house ever again. Then there were 288 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: rumors about the gems. They'd all gone too. The story 289 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: went that the police had collected them all and packed 290 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: them into suitcases. 291 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: Someone else will tell you the story that a lot 292 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: of that didn't quite make it into the suitcase. 293 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: In other words, there were rumors of people helping themselves 294 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: to Anne's gems at the crime scene. Anne also had 295 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: another problem, money and her lawyer, Juan Alvarez. John and 296 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: Anne had put ninety million dollars in a trust and 297 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: given Alvare's power of attorney, which means he effectively controlled 298 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: their fortune. It's reported he'd stopped Anne's credit cards and 299 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: payments and hadn't paid the staff at the house. It 300 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: became legally very messy and complicated. Alvarez has denied all 301 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: the allegations against him, telling CBS that they were bogus. 302 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: He didn't respond to our requests for an interview, and 303 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: despite the huge sums involved, the situation with the trust 304 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: would soon be the least of Anne's problems, because more 305 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: than a year after John's death, the police had finally 306 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: concluded their investigation. On August the twenty fourth, twenty eleven, 307 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: Anne was arrested and charged with first degree for killing 308 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: her husband John. Felix Bender, a Costa Rican English newspaper, 309 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: said the case had all the makings of a tropical 310 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: Gothic tragedy. Stressed, you think she was underwent she was 311 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: suddenly arrested for the murder of her husband. 312 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 6: I mean, what did you It must have been terrible 313 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 6: for her. 314 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: Did you talk to her about it? 315 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 6: Yes, we talked. She was at the beginning silent, very 316 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 6: silent in a way that I once asked her, and 317 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 6: she didn't want to hurt non body. 318 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: It would be a further year before Anne would be 319 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: in court. With the help of her family and a 320 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: few friends, she assembled her defense team. She was also 321 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: supported by their loyal former head of security, Jose Pizarro, 322 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: the Colonel, as John used to call him. He saw 323 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: it as his duty to protect Anne. Now that John 324 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: was dead. He was voted to her. 325 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 9: We used to talk and she always asked for my 326 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 9: opinion what she could do about the accusation and why 327 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 9: she was accused, And she talked about it with me 328 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 9: every single day. The whole process had been an orthodox 329 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 9: I thought this couldn't happen, but it did. She was 330 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 9: always worried about what might happen next. She was worried, angry, 331 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 9: and frightened of being involved in the death of her husband. 332 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 9: It was very hard for her. She couldn't understand how 333 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 9: they could accuse her of killing her husband. She got 334 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 9: very sad from then on. 335 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 6: She struggled with all of this. 336 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: As for the workers in the house, everything changed after 337 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: John's death. As Valdo Rojas, their maintenance man, had worked 338 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: for the Benders for ten years. It was a good job. 339 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: Many of the other staff had also been there for 340 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: five years or more. They had become part of the 341 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: Bender's dream. But the dream was over and the future 342 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: looked very uncertain. Bouracheyam, the house on the hill, which 343 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: had been alive with activity, fell silent. Gone were the 344 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: guards and the gardeners who helped create the nature reserve, 345 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: gone too. The vets who looked after the sick animals 346 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: and John's orchids were left to wither and die. All 347 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: was quiet, apart from the sounds of the jungle. Anne's 348 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: trial began on January the fourteenth, twenty thirteen in the 349 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: courthouse in Perez Zeladon. It would be heard by three judges. 350 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: They don't have jury trials in Costa Rica. Anne was 351 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: accompanied by her family and a few friends. John's parents, 352 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: Paul and Margy, didn't go. 353 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 5: Now we thought about it, but it's probably my fault 354 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 5: for not going. I didn't know what the hell I 355 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 5: had to do there. What purpose did I serve. I 356 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 5: didn't know what happened. 357 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 6: He was gone. 358 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 5: She had family go take care of her. So I 359 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 5: did hire a lawyer there to try to tell me what. 360 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 6: Was going on. 361 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: Their son's death had been devastating. At the time, they 362 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: felt it was the right decision not to attend the trial. 363 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: They stayed in touch with them throughout and gave her 364 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: their full support. I think they felt a sense of helplessness. 365 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: Their son was dead. Nothing they did now would bring 366 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: him back. But now Paul wonders if they made the 367 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: right decision. 368 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 5: I probably should have worked harder with that, and it 369 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 5: probably would have been better for me to go down 370 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 5: and get to know the people and talk to them 371 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 5: and figure out what was one. But what difference would 372 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 5: it make it I had nothing I could do about 373 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 5: it if it's happened. 374 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: And it's such a difficult thing as well, I mean. 375 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 5: Break. I think the main thing that I should say 376 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 5: about that is we really were very supportive of air 377 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 5: because we wanted her to stay in control of the property, 378 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 5: and we didn't blame her for anything, so we did 379 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 5: everything could to help her. 380 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: Paul and Margie talk easily about most things, laugh too, 381 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: but when the subject of John comes up, especially talking 382 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: about when and how he died, their voices become so quiet, 383 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: and I noticed they reach for each other's hands and 384 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: hold on tight. 385 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 5: You can't do anything about it, And so what would 386 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 5: be the point of going and fighting down in Costa Rica? 387 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 5: But I think what good would that going to do 388 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 5: is we'll cause misery. We couldn't help him anymore and 389 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 5: seemed to know what she was doing. 390 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: Ampa news broke that a millionaire heiress was being tried 391 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: for the murder of her husband, and camera crews moved. 392 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: In Rasa La Mortez Susposo John Felix Bender, You're. 393 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: In La Three years after John's death, Anne was in 394 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: the dock in a Costa Rican court being tried for 395 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: first degree murder. The case was heard almost entirely in Spanish. 396 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: The prosecution didn't offer a theory about motive. Reportedly, the 397 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: court recorded that she acted without any apparent motive, but 398 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: clear intent to end the life of the victim, John 399 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: Felix Bender. The prosecution's focus was on the crime scene. 400 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: Remember the air plugs. Prosecutors asked why John would go 401 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: to be with those ear plugs in if he was 402 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: intending to kill himself. Then there was the gunshot wound 403 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: that was on the back of John's head on the 404 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: right hand side, whereas John was left handed. None of 405 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: this added up to suicide. The prosecution claimed, how did 406 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: a left handed person take that shot and how did 407 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: the bullet casing end up in those positions. The defense, 408 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: on the other hand, argued, this was all a horrible mistake. 409 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: John was suicidal and this was the result of years 410 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: of planning. Friends confirmed this, and so did emails John sent. 411 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: The defense claimed Ann tried to stop him but couldn't. 412 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 5: They said. 413 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: Anne's testimony lasted seventy minutes. She spoke with passion about 414 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: her life with John, their loving relationship. She told the 415 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: call why they had come to Costa Rica and what 416 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: they had hoped to achieve and all of this she 417 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: delivered in fluent Spanish. She spoke from the heart, winning 418 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: over the press and many who hadn't heard her speak before. 419 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: In the media, there was sympathy for her and what 420 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: she'd been through. Why was our government taking this poor 421 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: woman to court? They asked. All the Benders wanted was 422 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: to help Costa Rica. The prosecution and defense rested. The 423 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: judges retired to consider the evidence. The case had lasted 424 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: six days, from January the fourteenth to January the twenty first, 425 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. Just before the verdict, Anne addressed the court 426 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: one more time. An actor is reading her statement. 427 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 4: It's been three years of hell and I feel listened 428 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 4: to and protected by the justice system, and I would 429 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 4: like to thank you. 430 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: The verdict was read out in front of a packed 431 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: courthouse full of TV cameras and spectators fascinated by the case. 432 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: Based on the evidence presented, we have unanimously decided the 433 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: defendant is acquitted, not guilty. Anne must have felt huge relief. 434 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: She could now get on with her life and grieve 435 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: her husband in peace. Except that's not how this story ends. 436 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: In Costa Rica, there is no limit to the amount 437 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: of times you can be tried for the same crime. 438 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: Prosecutors wanted a retrial and that's what they got. Anne 439 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: would be back in court for a second time on 440 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: trial for murder people. 441 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 2: Yes, they thought this rich American is never going to jail. 442 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: It just won't happen here. Co Striker wouldn't do that 443 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: to a woman. KOs Striker wouldn't do that to an American. 444 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 2: They dropped the bomb on her. 445 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: That's next time on Helen Heaven. You've been listening to 446 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: Helen Heaven from Exactly Right Media and iHeart podcasts produced 447 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: by Blanchard House, hosted, written and produced by me Becky Milligan. 448 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: The producer and co writer is Poppy Damon. Music is 449 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: by Daniel Lloyd Evans, Louis nank Manell, and Toby Mattamon. 450 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: The sound Recordistant Head of Sound and Music is Daniel 451 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: Lloyd Evans. The lead sound designer is Vulcan Kiseltook. The 452 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: artwork is by Vanessa Lilac for Exactly Right Media. The 453 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: executive producers are Karen Kilgareth Georgia hartste and Danielle Kramer, 454 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: with consulting producer Lilly Ladderwig and associate producer Jay Elias. 455 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: The creative director of Blanchard House is Rosie Pye. The 456 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: executive producer and head of Content at Blanchard House is 457 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: Lawrence Griselle. Listen to Helen Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, 458 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.