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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and each week I tell you

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Speaker 1: about some of the people I think are cool who

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Speaker 1: did stuff that I think is cool, like, for example,

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Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. Oh, I'm so honored to here's that intro

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Speaker 1: that I could be like included in the Cool People

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Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff line up. I've decided and I

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Speaker 1: am the arbiter of cool. What's some of the cool

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Speaker 1: stuff you do? You've turned the Internet into some sort

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Speaker 1: of hate machine. Oh we can say that. Yeah, I,

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Speaker 1: Sophie and I expose the way that the Internet functions

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Speaker 1: as an Internet hate machine and how it is breaking

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Speaker 1: our social and political landscape. That is something that I

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Speaker 1: did with Cool Zone Media. Really excited about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like that show, And if you're listening to us,

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Speaker 1: you should also listen to Bridget show. That's what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get at. Yeah, obviously Sophie is our producer.

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Speaker 1: How are you, Sophie. I'm wow. I wasn't on last

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Speaker 1: week because I was an incubus of viral plague, but

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Speaker 1: I'm back. Yeah. Good, it's so good that we all

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Speaker 1: have to return to work. Yeah, I actually like my

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Speaker 1: job too, so too. Yeah good, I'm glad. What I

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Speaker 1: feel bad for everyone who's listening because their job isn't

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Speaker 1: talking into a microphone with their friends. I mean my

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Speaker 1: job is actually I read endless amounts every week, and

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Speaker 1: my friends call me and say, are you okay? Are

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Speaker 1: you ever going to call me back? And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you about this guy who died in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two, ridiculously funny. So normally this show is

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Speaker 1: not specifically focused on transistory, but I'm really mad about

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Speaker 1: some shit right now, as a trans person or as

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Speaker 1: a person who cares about the state of the world

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Speaker 1: or whatever. In particular, I'm pretty mad about some some

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Speaker 1: laws that are getting past and some people who are

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Speaker 1: trying to like do us a murder. So today this

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Speaker 1: week actually, because it's two episodes in a week, because

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Speaker 1: people will probably pick it picked up on by now,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do is talk about some great transistors of history.

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Speaker 1: I like transistors. That's a that's a did you come

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Speaker 1: up with that? No? Okay, So actually it's funny. I

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Speaker 1: lost like an hour of my life. This is the

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Speaker 1: thing that my job is weird. I lost like an

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Speaker 1: hour of my life trying to come up with where

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Speaker 1: the word transistor comes from, because I've known it for

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Speaker 1: a while. People say it right, and and it's credited

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Speaker 1: to CC McDonald, who's this amazing black trans woman who

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Speaker 1: killed a guy who needed a killing because he was whatever. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she probably didn't well, okay, she might have coined it,

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Speaker 1: but other people have coined it too. Is basically I've

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Speaker 1: managed to trace it back to this like Christian Theology

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Speaker 1: trans article where in a footnote someone was like, actually

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Speaker 1: I didn't come up with it. Someone else did, unnamed

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Speaker 1: trans man or whatever. But I think what happens is

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Speaker 1: that every single time a trans person is like our

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Speaker 1: trans ancestors, they're like a light bulb goes off and

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Speaker 1: then they say transcestor. That's my best guess. My favorite

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Speaker 1: thing that you said in that entire thing was a

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Speaker 1: man who was killed, who need a kid who needed

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Speaker 1: a killing? Oh hell yeah, we fu with CC Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: icon like yeah, we we we stand. Yeah. And so

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Speaker 1: since we're gonna be talking about cool transcestors, that means

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Speaker 1: we will be tying in let's see cool sex workers

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Speaker 1: black women breaking class barriers and getting punished for it. Um,

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Speaker 1: which of course, has never happened anywhere else in history.

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Speaker 1: Somehow we're going to include more than one reference to tuberculosis.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even try, and synthesizers. These are some of

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Speaker 1: the things. Oh, I think I know where you're going

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Speaker 1: with that last. Yeah, one of them. I think people

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Speaker 1: are gonna are gonna know. But you know what else

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Speaker 1: is cool about these three people? All of them live

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Speaker 1: till old age. Banger. There's a cliche I like the

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Speaker 1: transagenda as an average life expectancy. So well, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about some people had an average life expectancy. One of

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Speaker 1: them still alive. Oh my god, I love that you're

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Speaker 1: talking about folks who had very long lives and are

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Speaker 1: still with us. One, so folks can get their flowers

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Speaker 1: while they're still here to smell them, so we were

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Speaker 1: not talking about them after they're gone. And then two,

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Speaker 1: just that, like trans folks deserve to be able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, have long, fulfilled, brilliant, beautiful lives. It shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be something that we talk about like, oh, very tragic,

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Speaker 1: very tragic. You know, Like I love celebrating folks who did,

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Speaker 1: you know, get to experience the fullness of life, because

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Speaker 1: we all deserve you know totally. No, it was a

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Speaker 1: kind of a coincidence. I picked my subjects and then

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh this rules they survived that. Oh

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Speaker 1: fuck yeah, and like I got really excited. So so

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Speaker 1: first I want to talk about Lucy Hicks Anderson. You

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Speaker 1: ever heard of Lucy? I hadn't heard of this person

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Speaker 1: until I started doing this research. I have not heard

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Speaker 1: of Lucy Hicks Anderson. Lucy was the first black trans

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Speaker 1: person to be convicted in court of impersonating a woman,

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Speaker 1: and is seen not just as a trans pioneer but

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Speaker 1: also one of the first people to fight in court

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Speaker 1: for marriage equality, for like gay marriage and things like that.

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Speaker 1: More broadly, and as Time magazine wrote about her in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, they're trying to talk shit in this quote,

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Speaker 1: but we can all aspire to such words. For three decades,

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Speaker 1: Lucy Hicks trafficked successfully in both sin and Sufflay. Amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could only hope one day someone says I trafficked

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Speaker 1: in sin and souflay. I know. I had to look

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Speaker 1: up with souflay was wait, what does it mean? Because

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, it's like a dessert, okay, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's being used in the like in the way I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking it's being used. It's not being than some sort

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Speaker 1: of like you know, oh yeah, no, it's not a metaphor. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's a fucking awesome cook. This woman is famous for

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Speaker 1: several things, and one of them is her cooking. She's

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Speaker 1: born in Waddy, Kentucky in eighteen eighty six. To get

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Speaker 1: a sense of how big of a town, Watty, Kentucky

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Speaker 1: is at the moment, there's four thousand people living there

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Speaker 1: one hundred fifty years later, which is to say I

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Speaker 1: tried and failed to figure o how big it was

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Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty six, but it is not a big place.

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Speaker 1: She was a signed mail at birth. Ever since she

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Speaker 1: was little, she insisted on wearing dresses to school. The

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Speaker 1: family took her to a doctor and they were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically like, I think our kid's broken the

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Speaker 1: he only wears dresses. But he's a boy, but he's

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Speaker 1: wearing dresses. And the doctor that they went to in

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Speaker 1: fucking Watty, Kentucky in the eighteen nineties was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: let her live as a girl. You know. It's so

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Speaker 1: funny because people love to sell transphobes love to be like,

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Speaker 1: oh this new fangled rand stuff. Yeah, there have been.

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Speaker 1: There's been like gender affirming care and folks who support

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Speaker 1: it fits forever, this idea that it's like a new thing.

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Speaker 1: It's so ahistorical. Yeah, no, exactly like and also even like, like,

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Speaker 1: not everyone we're going to talk about this week was

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Speaker 1: like accepted by their family, but most of them were

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Speaker 1: and like, and so the family's like, all right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's a girl whatever, And that's how it's presented. And

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Speaker 1: I want to believe it, and I have no counter

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Speaker 1: evidence against it. And I also don't think it's a

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Speaker 1: coincidence that some of the first trans women we know

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Speaker 1: about in US history, specifically nineteenth century trans women, were black.

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Speaker 1: And I started reading, but I didn't fully finish. It

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Speaker 1: was very theoretical. Talked about to Lose in Quatari a

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Speaker 1: lot a book about specifically about the black trans experience

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Speaker 1: in history, And I can't remember the name off the

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Speaker 1: top of my head, but it's in the script and

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Speaker 1: we'll find out the name of that book in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. When she's fifteen, she changed her name to

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Speaker 1: Lucy and she left home. She stuck around Kentucky for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years. She's I think she's working as

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Speaker 1: a domestic most of her life. When she's twenty, she

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Speaker 1: struck out to Picos, Texas, and she spent her twenties

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Speaker 1: working as a domestic in a hotel. It's possible, based

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Speaker 1: on what came later, that she was working in sex

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Speaker 1: work at this point. I don't know. History like loves

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Speaker 1: not talking about whether or not someone did sex work,

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Speaker 1: even when the other thing this person is famous for

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Speaker 1: is being a madam. So it's like not really, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we don't know. The records are murky,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, like we don't specifically know whether or not

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Speaker 1: she was, you know, sleeping with people for money or

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Speaker 1: not in her role as a domestic. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: More power to her either way, you know. In nineteen twenty,

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Speaker 1: when Lucy was thirty three or thirty four, she married

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Speaker 1: her first husband, a man named Clarence Hicks. How she

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Speaker 1: gets the name Hicks. They moved, They get married in

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Speaker 1: New Mexico, and they moved to Oxnard, California. They're married

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Speaker 1: for nine years. Oxnard, which probably people who live on

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Speaker 1: the West Coast think is a perfectly normal name for

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Speaker 1: a perfectly normal place. It's not. That's not a normal

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Speaker 1: name at all. Okay, great, okay, good, because it just

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Speaker 1: means ox nuts to me. Oxnard is a is a

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Speaker 1: place in California too. This is where we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the California one. Oh, it's an LA

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Speaker 1: suburb now apparently, Um, I wouldn't call it that because

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Speaker 1: from actual Los Angeles. Great, I am an elitist snob.

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Speaker 1: But um, technically sure some folks that are not from

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles might refer to it in such way. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm also think I'm an asshole, so carry on. I

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Speaker 1: don't care whether it's a suburb or not of Los Angeles. Oxnard, California,

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Speaker 1: is named after I looked into the name because I

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Speaker 1: thought it was funny. It's named after this industrialist, Henry T. Oxnard,

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Speaker 1: whose family name probably doesn't refer to the testicles of oxen.

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Speaker 1: Probably he was born a rich asshole into a rich

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Speaker 1: French asshole sugar plantation family and state of rich asshole

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Speaker 1: and the sugar industry. I read the next sentence, it's

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Speaker 1: really funny. Oxnard was a new town, not yet twenty

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Speaker 1: years old old cow Nuts named in the town after himself.

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Speaker 1: It was an immigrant labor town buying large, and it

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Speaker 1: had a rather large population of Chinese, Mexican and Japanese laborers.

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Speaker 1: It also had a reputation as being a town of vice.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty five, this Times article Time article that

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna refer to occasionally described Oxnard as quote newly

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Speaker 1: rich on sugar beets, and it's Chinese and Mexican labors

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Speaker 1: blew their pay nightly on light ladies, gambling, whiskey and

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Speaker 1: opium and old cow nuts, which led me to a

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Speaker 1: bad place to chill. I'm gonna be honest with you mine. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: she had a fucking great time when she moved there.

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Speaker 1: Bridgets like I've heard of a worst time, honey, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so light ladies in the context is probably short

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Speaker 1: for red light ladies, a common word for sex workers

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Speaker 1: in the American West, which leads me to the etymology

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Speaker 1: of red light district another rabbit hole I fell down.

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Speaker 1: They have an interestingly contested origin, because America's like, it's

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Speaker 1: an American word, and the Netherlands is like, we've been

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Speaker 1: using it for two hundred years longer than that. It

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Speaker 1: likely originated in the Netherlands in the seventeenth century before

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Speaker 1: the US so much as existed, and it might have

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Speaker 1: come from sex workers, Dutch sex workers meeting sailors carrying

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Speaker 1: red lanterns, and they carried red lanterns as rules so

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Speaker 1: they didn't have to put on their makeup as well.

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Speaker 1: I love a lazy lighte haack, you know, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, cover a blemish or fuck with a red

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Speaker 1: light on exact whatever. And the term gets popularized in

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Speaker 1: the US in Dodge City, Kansas in the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: when one of the brothels in the sex work district

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Speaker 1: was called the red light House Saloon. After that, it's

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Speaker 1: used all over the West, but apparently and this one

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Speaker 1: didn't come down through the ages as much. It was

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Speaker 1: also popular, or maybe more popular, to refer to these

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Speaker 1: districts instead of red light districts as sporting districts. And

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Speaker 1: I like that, like out for a bit of sport.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, actually know that I say it out

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Speaker 1: loud as sounds worse. Whatever it could be. I could

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Speaker 1: see it as a euphemism like a little bit of sport,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't know, I think it works, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: In case anyone listening to this podcast hasn't picked up

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Speaker 1: on it by now, I'm entirely in favor of the

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Speaker 1: decriminalization of sex work and the de stigmatization of sex workers.

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Speaker 1: And the problem that the industry has is their problems

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Speaker 1: that exist because of criminalization, patriarchy, and capitalism. These are

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Speaker 1: the problems that many, many people face for a lot

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Speaker 1: of reasons. Sex work is work. That's my statement on that.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah. And then as a final zing, if you

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Speaker 1: think you don't know any sex workers, it's because you

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Speaker 1: don't know anyone who trusts you well enough to tell

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Speaker 1: you that they've done sex work or do sex work.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought that up. Thanks. And this

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Speaker 1: does tie into the story. So Lucy and Clarence they

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Speaker 1: moved to Oxnard, and she wins a bunch of baking contests,

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Speaker 1: like right away, and she works as a domestic She

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Speaker 1: helps rich people watch their kids and shit. So it's like, not,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's just domestic as like quotes here. However,

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Speaker 1: I believe that my read between the lines is at

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Speaker 1: this point she's definitely doing sex work because she she

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Speaker 1: saves up enough money during this time to open up

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Speaker 1: a brothel, and she refers to it as a boarding house.

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Speaker 1: But it is a brothel and it is a speakeasy,

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Speaker 1: and she steps into the work that she is born

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Speaker 1: for being a socialite madam who is a world class chef.

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Speaker 1: And it's prohibition meaning even more fun as illegal than usual.

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Speaker 1: And so her brothel speakeasy is raking in the cash

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Speaker 1: because actually criminalizing things is sometimes means there's just more

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Speaker 1: money in it. Everyone in town seems to love her.

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Speaker 1: This is the part of the story that I get

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Speaker 1: really excited about. She's throwing parties left and right. She's

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Speaker 1: blowing money on everyone and everything. She's like the classic

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Speaker 1: like kind of like the gangster who gives back right. Right.

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Speaker 1: She's as much a local institution as the Oxnard's American

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Speaker 1: Crystal sugarco Refinery, which is like the main place to

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Speaker 1: work in town. Right. It's really hard to know how

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Speaker 1: many people knew she was an assists woman. Later there's

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Speaker 1: this big reveal and everyone is surprised, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether there's a regular secret or an open secret.

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Speaker 1: My money's on the comet some combination of the two. Soon,

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Speaker 1: her loan bordello expands to half a block of buildings.

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Speaker 1: Each one is painted nicely with window boxes, full of

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Speaker 1: geraniums and to quote that Time magazine article that doesn't

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Speaker 1: like her, she wore bright, low cut silk dresses, from

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Speaker 1: which her slat like collar bones protruded, and she affected

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Speaker 1: picture hats and high heeled shoes. Her wigs were her pride.

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Speaker 1: She had a long black wavy one, a short, straight

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Speaker 1: bobbed one, and for special occasions, a shoulder length of

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Speaker 1: job in red. Again, they're trying to drag her, but

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Speaker 1: they're just making her sound awesome and like somebody I

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Speaker 1: would want to be friends with. I know, I can't

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Speaker 1: find a negatively, I mean, obviously someone who's like in

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Speaker 1: charge of a sex work place. You're like, okay, how

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Speaker 1: are the workers treated? And I have no information, you know,

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Speaker 1: But like she's a pillar of the community, some sort

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Speaker 1: of literally, she's six feet tall. She tends neighborhood children,

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Speaker 1: she helps daughters get dressed up for parties. I was like,

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Speaker 1: if you're a rich person in town, you're like trying

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Speaker 1: to hobnob with Lucy. And she's a fantastic cook. All

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Speaker 1: the rich and powerful women in town like show up

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Speaker 1: at her house for recipes. And I don't know how

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Speaker 1: this plays into race. At the time, because I'm aware

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Speaker 1: of the most of the workers in that town being

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Speaker 1: non white but also non black, and I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I assume most of the other upper class people in

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Speaker 1: this town are not black. I assume they're white, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. She prepared the barbecue to welcome the

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Speaker 1: new Catholic priest to town. That's how in this community

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Speaker 1: is a new priest is coming to town. Ask the

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Speaker 1: lady who runs all the brothels to prepare the barbecue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a good party is a good party, right,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly? That comes up. Yeah, Like she's hell of philanthropic.

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Speaker 1: She gives away a ton of money to like Red

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Speaker 1: Cross and the Boy Scouts and other charities. And as

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Speaker 1: a former girl who was in the Boy Scouts and

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Speaker 1: my best friend in Boy Scouts also came out as trans.

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Speaker 1: This is just all tracks from my point of view.

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Speaker 1: One time she gets arrested, I'm not sure what for,

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Speaker 1: and the town's leading banker goes to the jail and

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Speaker 1: pays her bail because she was throwing a dinner party

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Speaker 1: that night and he didn't want to miss it. A

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Speaker 1: good party is a good party, I'm saying, if you like,

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Speaker 1: if you want to get into in a community, like

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Speaker 1: just be known for your stellar parties. Yeah, I as

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Speaker 1: someone who is introverted to my core, I am sad

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Speaker 1: about that truth. But I mean I want to go

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Speaker 1: to her parties, and I don't usually want to go

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Speaker 1: to parties, So I think that's a Hey's something. But

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Speaker 1: you know what other parties a party in spending money

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Speaker 1: on stuff ads advertisers if the Red Cross advertisers don't

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Speaker 1: donate to them, I mean, I don't know. Whatever, do

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Speaker 1: whatever you fuck you want. Time we're back from those advertisements,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you enjoyed the party of Okay, whatever.

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Speaker 1: So when World War two hits, she throws extravagant parties

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Speaker 1: for all the departing sons of prominent families, like she's

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Speaker 1: a fucking socialite. She also manages to keep her houses

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Speaker 1: open even as wartime rules like shut down all the

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Speaker 1: competition across the coast, across the West coast, like because

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Speaker 1: like during war, they're like like sex work is illegal

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Speaker 1: at this point in the United States, but it's like

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Speaker 1: extra illegal during war. So I assume she's bribing people.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the only thing I can come up with.

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Speaker 1: But that's another thing. That's not written in the history books.

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Speaker 1: Whenever people are like and then they were just allowed

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Speaker 1: to keep doing this, like, yeah, I love how when

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Speaker 1: it was like, oh, there's no record of how they

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Speaker 1: were allowed to keep doing this, but they were. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: usually it's some sort of bribe something or other. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no paper record of any money changing hands, so

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Speaker 1: probably it didn't happen. And then one more upstanding citizen

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Speaker 1: thing about her. When President Roosevelt died in nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 1: the local paper asked all of the civic leaders for comment,

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Speaker 1: like the church leaders, the business leaders, and the black

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Speaker 1: woman who ran the brothels. Of course. Yeah. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty four, she got married again. She was only married

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Speaker 1: to the last guy for nine years. It was a

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Speaker 1: long time, but you know, they they did get divorced,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know the details about why are or anything.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty four, she marries a soldier who I

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Speaker 1: am guessing is a good bit younger than her. She

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Speaker 1: is almost sixty and he's a soldier in World War Two,

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Speaker 1: so he's probably not almost sixty. He's a sergeant. This

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Speaker 1: guy's name is Ruben Anderson. So now she's Lucy Hicks Anderson.

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Speaker 1: She's just collecting names, I guess, and she should. She

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00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 1: should have just gone down in history as the ball

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Speaker 1: or black trans woman who ran all the crime in Oxnard, Californian,

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Speaker 1: was nice to everyone. That's what I wish was happening

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Speaker 1: to her now that she's about sixty, but instead didn't done.

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Speaker 1: Compulsory heterosexuality reared its ugly head. There was an outbreak

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Speaker 1: of venereal disease among the Navy. They tracked it back

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Speaker 1: to her Brothels. It's worth noting here that during World

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Speaker 1: War One, the US pass the Chamberlain con Act, which

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Speaker 1: basically made it illegal to be a woman, any woman,

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Speaker 1: any profession with a venereal disease. Oh wow, it was

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Speaker 1: a crime to have a venereal disease as a woman

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Speaker 1: in World War One. Specifically, caving an STI counted as

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Speaker 1: proof in court that you were a sex worker. It

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Speaker 1: really goes back to what you were saying about all

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Speaker 1: the fucked up stuff that happened when we criminalized stuff,

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Speaker 1: where it's just like, Okay, now the problem is way worse.

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Speaker 1: Thanks everybody, Yeah, totally totally, And it like in their

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Speaker 1: mind they were like, well, obviously like, no one has

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Speaker 1: promiscuous sex except sex workers because their lives are weird

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Speaker 1: and boring. I like, I don't know, I like. And

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Speaker 1: so fifteen thousand, five hundred women or so are locked

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Speaker 1: up during the war for having, you know, various diseases.

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Speaker 1: That sucks. Prostitution had only become illegal across the US

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifteen. In nineteen ten, there was a law

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Speaker 1: pass that basically said sex workers weren't allowed to cross

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Speaker 1: state lines for any reason. It wasn't until nineteen forty

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Speaker 1: four that a court decided sex workers were allowed to

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Speaker 1: cross state lines if it wasn't for sex work. So

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Speaker 1: that's cool. I guess I'm trying to says the government. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm not the biggest fan. So an STI is traced

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Speaker 1: back to Lucy's establishment, and so doctors show up to

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Speaker 1: inspect every woman in the place, including Lucy. Swears up

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00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: and down she runs the place but doesn't personally work there.

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Speaker 1: But they're like, you know, we're inspecting you. So they

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00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: discover her secret. The county's district attorney, it's like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: a crime. And the crime wasn't the sex work, which

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00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been a crime, but was but do you

381
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: want to guess how they managed to put her on

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Speaker 1: trial for living as a woman. Oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's something. It's what is it, I'm sure it's wacky.

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00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure what is it? Perjury? Oh my god? She

385
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 1: had perjured herself by applying for a marriage license, since

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Speaker 1: at that time and in the future, at this rate,

387
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: marriage in the US is only legal between one man

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Speaker 1: and one woman or whatever, although optimistically, I bet we'll

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00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: get back to where one man can marry multiple women,

390
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Speaker 1: which is legal in the US to eighteen eighty six. Also,

391
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Speaker 1: it's the fact that they have to go after her

392
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Speaker 1: for perjury. It's like, it's so arbiginary, but it's like,

393
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: what's the what's the way that we can get around that?

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00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: It's oh wait, I know perjury totally. And I've read

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Speaker 1: some places that another charge was female impersonation, but I

396
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: wasn't able to specifically. I've run across a bunch of

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00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: people in history who have been charged with like female

398
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 1: impersonation or male impersonation, but I'm not certain about when

399
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: that's actually a crime on the books versus that's like

400
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: something they round you up for. You know, it seems

401
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: to be very different at different times. But yeah, so

402
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: they put her on trial and the community she's catered

403
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: for for decades just fucking abandons her. And that's the

404
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: most depressing part of this whole thing. Her case gets

405
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: nationwide media attention, it's mostly negative. She's a spectacle. Time

406
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: magazine writes that article about her that I keep quoting,

407
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: And then that article, it starts off almost nice, it

408
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: genders her correctly until you realize the whole article is

409
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: a joke building up to the punchline, like the last sentences,

410
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: but Lucy Hicks Anderson is a man, and then it

411
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 1: just ends the fucking article like I literally thought I

412
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: found a wrong tran script of it, you know, because

413
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: it's like an eighty year old article or whatever cut

414
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: off halfway, Like no, right, No, that's the fucking it's

415
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: just all punchline. We're all fucking jokes. That's so heartbreaking because, like,

416
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: as you've demonstrated, she was this pillar of her community

417
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: that everybody wanted to be around until this happened. And

418
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Speaker 1: I don't know it, just I do think there's something

419
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: about like the way these people that she had really

420
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: shown up for didn't show up for her, and like

421
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: the importance of community and your neighbors sticking up for

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Speaker 1: you even when when you're having an awesome party, and

423
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: also when like you're being unfairly rounded up for something

424
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: that is bullshit. I know, and I'm guessing it's something

425
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: that most of those people knew, you know, but they

426
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: all like could plausible deniability it until they couldn't, or like,

427
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: I don't know and it it. Yeah, the article runs

428
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: and they're in time is buried under letters nominating her

429
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: for Man of the Year and some articles. Right, she

430
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: won Man of the Year, but she did not win

431
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: Man of the Year. I forgot who was. Was some

432
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: president or something wins Man of the Year in nineteen

433
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: forty five. And she ends up with two trials back

434
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: to back. We'll get to the second one, and I'm

435
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: not entirely certain which events happen at each trial, so

436
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: I'm going to stick everything that she does into the

437
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: second trial, the federal trial. She's found guilty of perjury

438
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: in California after a week long trial, and she sentenced

439
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: to ten years probation. But then the government, the federal

440
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: government is like oppressing a black trans woman who dared

441
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: to cross gender and class lines. I want in on

442
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: this action. So the federal government decides to put her

443
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: on trial, and they're like, you know what, fuck her

444
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: husband too. No one should ever date trends women unless

445
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: they steal, you know, because otherwise we'll steal all the

446
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: hot people for themselves for ourselves. So they're put on trial,

447
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: and her and her husband I think they're straight up

448
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: hauled out to DC for the trial. I've like, it

449
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me, because obviously they can have

450
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: federal trials elsewhere but DC. But I'm under the impression

451
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: that this trial is DC and the charge is fraud.

452
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: Her husband is a soldier and he's got some government money,

453
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: and so does a spouse through the GI bill, but

454
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: she wasn't supposed to get it because she is an

455
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: evil trans imposter lady. She's also on trial for not

456
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: registering for the draft, even though she's way too old

457
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: for the draft. She's like in her sixties, no, yeah,

458
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: almost sixty. I think at this point she was in

459
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: trouble because, to quote the African American Registry's good article

460
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: about her quote, failing to register for the draft until

461
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: she proved she had been too old to register. So

462
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: like they're like, this is my paraphrasing conversation, you didn't

463
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: register for the draft. I'm almost sixty years old. Yeah,

464
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: but you're supposed to show up and register and then

465
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: show that you're too old? Like what the fuck? This

466
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: isn't like getting carted at the store. Sorry, go ahead, right, No,

467
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: It's just like the level of arbitrary nonsense that they

468
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: were using to criminalize a black trans woman is just

469
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: so obvious. Yeah, exactly. And I don't know what that

470
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: exchange happened. I know that she got arrested for not,

471
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, registering for the draft. But but we do

472
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: know some of her some of the things that did

473
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: happen in court, some things she did say. And again

474
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't know whether this is the California trial or

475
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: the federal trial, but I'm putting it to this trial.

476
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: During the trials, the DC based newspaper The Afro American

477
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: ran a front page article about her nightlife queen guilty

478
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: of perjury in sex case, and they ran an illustration

479
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: to go along with it of a woman standing next

480
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: to a sign that says, beware not what you think

481
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: it is. So it's that classic trap rhetoric like has

482
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: been with us for a fucking long time. Totally. Oh

483
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: that so that newspaper I live in DC. That newspaper

484
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: is still around. Shit. Really, I have to say I'm disappointed,

485
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: but not surprised. I know that is the like that,

486
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: that is the stance they took. I'll to say that. Yeah,

487
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: they ran it for like two weeks straight. I think

488
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: it might have been a weekly, so it might have

489
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: just been two episodes, two issues. Not everything's a podcast, Margaret, Yeah,

490
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: Margaret thinks they're periodicals. Yeah, I know. I like when

491
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is gonna be better, this

492
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: is gonna be better, and then I was like, this

493
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: is not It's better than the time article, right, but

494
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: that comic is no good. In court, they brought doctor

495
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: after doctor, five of them total, who examined her to

496
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: expert testify that she was a man, and she denied it.

497
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: Every time she refused to answer the question do you

498
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: have male sex organs? Which was rephrased a ton of

499
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: different ways every time she's just like not answering it.

500
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: And when the court asked her what part of her

501
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: body she considered feminine, because basically she her argument is

502
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm a woman and They're like, we have

503
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: five doctors saying you're a man, and she's like, I

504
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: don't care. I'm a woman, you know. And so and

505
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: this was as reported in the Afro American. I don't

506
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: know whether I believe that this is probably likely because

507
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: court transcripts are the kind of things that people can verify.

508
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: But when they asked her what part of her body

509
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: she considered feminine, she said, for one thing, my chest.

510
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 1: And she opened her shirt and showed her tits to

511
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: the jury, which was a masculine chest. Right. She doesn't

512
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: she's not on hormones or anything like that. That doesn't

513
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: happen for decades more. But she's like, whatever, this is

514
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: my feminine chest. And she's fucking right, you know, like

515
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: she's a woman and that's her chest. And she said, quote,

516
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: I defy any doctor in the world to prove that

517
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: I am not a woman. I have lived, dressed, and

518
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: acted just as what I am a woman. It's only

519
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: petty maliciousness that is trying to cause me heartache and harm.

520
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: If they would devote the same amount of energy to

521
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: local problems that are hurting the community, it would be

522
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: much better. I've lived a good life in a Christian life,

523
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: and though I am a Christian, I reverend all religious faiths.

524
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: I have lived as a good citizen for many years

525
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: in this town, and I'm going to die a good citizen.

526
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: But I am going to die a woman. Good for her,

527
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, just being like, yeah, there are bigger

528
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: problems in society than what's going on with me, Like

529
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: why don't you focus on that, assholes? Yeah? Yeah, Like

530
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean even if you're like, hey, you run a

531
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: crime business, you know, I could like understand, I would

532
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: still be annoyed. I would support her, right right, but

533
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: like just literally like we think you have a penis? Yeah,

534
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: My question would be like, during this trial, how many

535
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: what was the breakdown of questions related to Lucy's gender, sex, organs, YadA, YadA, YadA,

536
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: versus the criminal enterprise maybe maybe being run you know? Yeah,

537
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: no that I don't. I literally don't think it came up.

538
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know? I know,

539
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: I know. And so her defense in court was that

540
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: she probably had hidden organs that would only be revealed

541
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: when she was autopsied, which was a kind of a

542
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: common way of like being sort of like, hey, maybe

543
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: I'm intersex essentially right. And I want to quote see

544
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: Riley Snorton's book Black on Both Sides, a Racial History

545
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: of transidentity and is the book I was I'm out

546
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: earlier that has like really fucking good stuff. Quote in

547
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: exchange for an unincarcerated life, Hicks Anderson's Hidden Organs defense

548
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: offered up her corpse to be put on indefinite institutional use,

549
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: indexing the medical industry sustained practice of experimentation on black

550
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: bodies in the United States, and it it just means,

551
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: like I mean, thinking about that quote, it's so like,

552
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: like how they will disrespect trans folks and particularly black

553
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: trans bodies in death, Like how how she had to

554
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: offer that up, this incredibly invasive thing that she should

555
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: never have to offer up. It's so invasive, like just

556
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: the ways that you, I mean, it reminds me so

557
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: much of when a black trans person is killed. They

558
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: will often like misgender them, use their wrong name in death,

559
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: and it's like the disrespect does not end even when

560
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: you're no longer here, Like that is nothing that really

561
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: gets me. Yeah, no, it it absolutely ties into what's

562
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: happening right now. And like and one of the things

563
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: that for all of my I'm very concerned about the

564
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: rise of anti trans violence and the rise of anti

565
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: trans law. But like, overall in the United States, white

566
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: trans people are not getting murdered to the same degree

567
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: that particularly black and also other people of color trans

568
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: people are being murdered, and specifically trans women are being

569
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: murdered in the United States, and so like, and I

570
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: feel like that always needs to frame when we talk

571
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: about trans violence in the United States. I don't know.

572
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, her and her husband are both convicted.

573
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: They're facing a maximum of ten years. I'm not sure

574
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: how many they got, but they got out less after

575
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: less than ten years. They both got sent to a

576
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: men's prison. I hope they got to be together. And

577
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: he sticks by her through all of this, like good guy,

578
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: Sergeant Ruben Anderson. Yeah, she's specifically forbidden from wearing women's

579
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: clothes in prison, but they have this problem where it's

580
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: like all the clothes she owns and they don't have

581
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: a prison uniform for her yet. I don't know, this

582
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: is just some nineteen forties shit or something, but she's

583
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: like in women's clothes in prison at first, and so

584
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: when they get out of prison, they stay together. The

585
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: chief of police in Oxnard is like, if you come

586
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: back to cow Nuts, we're going to arrest you. So

587
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: they moved to Los Angeles, where they lived together for

588
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: the rest of her life. She dies before him, which

589
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: makes sense because she's probably like thirty years older than him.

590
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: But he's a grown ass adult. He could do whatever

591
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: he wants, you know. She dies in nineteen fifty four

592
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: at the age of sixty eight, and the trail runs

593
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: cold after they get out of jail. But it's not

594
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: hard to see them happy in Los Angeles in the

595
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: fifties and forties, So that makes me happy. So they

596
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: so they did have like like they ended like Lucy's

597
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: life ended happy in Los Angeles with her partner that

598
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: yes exactly. They go through this really horrible thing together

599
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: and they go to prison together for being married, and

600
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: then when they get out they stay together and just

601
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I love it. I like that. I

602
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: don't want to cynically then turn into this into ad break.

603
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: But it's time for an ad break. So here's some advertisers,

604
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: and we're back, and we have one more person to

605
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: talk about today, and then we have a third person

606
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about on Wednesday, and we have a

607
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: little bit more detail about Next I want to talk

608
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: about a living person, which is tricky because I have

609
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: avoided talking about living people on this podcast as much

610
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: as possible as like part of the advantage of picking history.

611
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: As I'm in, like, and no one is alive to

612
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: be mad at how they're being represented, or no one

613
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: can like tweet something wild where like I did a

614
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: whole episode about how great they are and now they're like, yeah, yeah,

615
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: it's like saying something I wish they hadn't said. Yeah,

616
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 1: so that's happened to me. Oh god, yeah, you know,

617
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: And there's like no accountability. We can ask from the dead,

618
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: So if someone's complicated, you can just be like, well,

619
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: they're complicated, they're not going to get better. They're dead.

620
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: We can't put them in jail. They're dead. You can't

621
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: cancel them. They're dead. Like all we can beat history,

622
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. We can just look at what was cool

623
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: and not cool about all this stuff they did. But

624
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: this next person I've wanted to cover. I almost did

625
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: a whole last episode just on her, and then I realized,

626
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: like a lot of marginalized people, she's really protective about

627
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: how she's represented. There's a biography of her out and

628
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: she hates it and she talks shit on it, and

629
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to get shit talked by someone I

630
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: have so much respect for. So I'm going to do

631
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: a shorter piece about the person who brought electronic music

632
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: to the masses, the mother of synthesizers, the first trans

633
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: person to win a Grammy, and someone I've looked up

634
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: to since I first heard her story. Wendy fucking Carlos. Hell, yes, wait,

635
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: I didn't know that Wendy Carlos. I love Wendy Carlos.

636
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: I did not know that Wendy Carlos was like um

637
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: particular about how her life has talked about and framed.

638
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: That is good information for me to have, it is

639
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: Clutton know this? Yeah? I discovered it because I was like,

640
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to do an episod about Wendy Carlos. Is

641
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: there a biography? And then the reviews are Wendy Carlos

642
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: hates this biography and thinks has declared it all fiction.

643
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, great, I don't have a good

644
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: source for I mean, I have enough sources for the things.

645
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm mostly going to be talking from her own interviews

646
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: and stuff like that on this shorter section. But yeah,

647
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: she's still alive. She runs Wendy Carlos dot com, where

648
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: she's put up. It looks like a website from the nineties.

649
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: It rules. There's like pictures of cats and eclipses and

650
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: stuff and like just talking about synthesizers and shit. Oh

651
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: my god, she's the coolest. I have to say. A

652
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, when it was the Grammys, everybody,

653
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: I love Kimpetras. Everyone was like, oh, first trans woman

654
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: to win a Grammy. Not true, it's actually Wendy Carlos.

655
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: So just FYI A lot of a lot of headlines

656
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: got the information and correct. They isn't the actual speech

657
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: and correct too. I I don't know. I didn't want

658
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: I didn't watch or read the speech, but I did

659
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: see a lot of headlines that now, not that I'm

660
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: thinking about it, probably quoting the speech which might have

661
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: had some incorrect information in it. Anyways, more trans, more

662
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: trans people should put Grammys. Oh really, I don't know

663
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: to pronounce her name, Anowe who used to perform as

664
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: Anthony and the Johnson's wan wanna Grammy, I don't. It

665
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: might not have happened before. Well I don't know anyway,

666
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, yes, I more fucking trans people winning more Grammys.

667
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Fuck yeah. Well, I'm glad that I'm speaking to an

668
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 1: audience who knows who Wendy Carlos is. But she's most

669
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: famous now, probably as the person who did the soundtrack

670
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: to Tron and the Shining and Clockwork Orange, which means

671
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: she's probably not famous at all anymore to most people,

672
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: because most people don't spend their time talking about Tron

673
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: and the Shining and Clockwork Orange anymore. No they should.

674
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: I agreed. Her music is hard to come by because

675
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: she owns the rights to it all, which rules, but

676
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: she doesn't put it out on streaming platforms or anything,

677
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: which is her right. But I'm sad about it because

678
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: I used to have switched on box CDs and I

679
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: don't anymore, and I don't listen to CDs anymore, and

680
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have a hard life, so Wendy Carlos.

681
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: Wendy Carlos was born in a working class family in

682
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, which is neither

683
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: a rohad nor an island. She was assigned male at

684
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: birth but was aware from the age of five or

685
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: six or so that she was a girl, and she

686
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: was confused as to why her parents didn't realize she

687
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: was a girl and we're trying to make her be

688
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: a boy. She stole her mother's clothes, she drew pictures

689
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: of herself with long hair and lipstick, and in grade

690
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: school she was bullied for being a sissy who played

691
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: with the girls. This is a very familiar thing to me.

692
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: And she went off to Catholic high school and she

693
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: had two interests, computers and piano. And this is like

694
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: the forties and fifties, which is really early for the

695
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: computer thing. Not the piano thing that's been around for

696
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: a minute, but the computer thing. When she's in high

697
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: school in the forties or fifties, she builds her own

698
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: computer red. Yeah, and she's like this picked on kid, right,

699
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: But at some point there's this cool thing where like

700
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: this happened to me occasionally, and so I'm just projecting,

701
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: but where like before I came out as trans the

702
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: ways in which I was kind of a sissy sometimes

703
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: made macho boys protect me. Oh yeah, and like yeah,

704
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: like I had this friend who if you're listening, I

705
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 1: love you, you're great. Were there be like anti fascist

706
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: demos in the Nevolens and he'd be like, you can't go,

707
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: you're I'll go, I'll go fight the Nazis. You stay here,

708
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, and like and so in her high school

709
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: she started having some She was a social outcast, but

710
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: she had some of the like kind of macho boys

711
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: would sort of protect her even though she was like

712
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: a boy. You know, I'm making air quotes here. But

713
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: she goes to college for music and physics and winds

714
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: up a recording engineer, and along the way she deals

715
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 1: with every sapphick trans woman has dealt with ever going

716
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: on dates with women and being insanely jealous of them

717
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: forgetting to be women. And also in school, she ran

718
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: across books about transness that explained her own feelings to

719
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: her and it helped. He's a suicidal ideation that was growing.

720
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: And I wish I could beat this fact over the

721
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: head of all these transfobs organizing against us. We don't

722
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: lose ourselves when we discover translus. We find ourselves like,

723
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: oh there's a word for that. Oh oh I'm allowed

724
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, right? Yeah, it's so it's

725
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: in like reading about um different trans folks in history,

726
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: how many of them found like support or community or

727
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: like self discovery from books? Yeah, well, I hate to

728
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: keep bringing up like all of the horribleness it's happening today,

729
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: but like the fact that they're cracking down on books,

730
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's it's not surprising to me. That's

731
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: how many of these historical figures are Like, well, you

732
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: write about it in a book, and then I didn't

733
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: feel so alone, and then I didn't feel so you know,

734
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: I understood myself better. And that that we're that folks

735
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: are cracking down on, you know, that kind of representation

736
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: in books today. It's just like I see just such

737
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: a straight line of trying to eradicate transmiss It's just

738
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: like so clear to me that that's what they're trying

739
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: to do. It's not about any of the smoke screens

740
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: they make it about. It's like, we need to make

741
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: sure that this is not something that like, we need

742
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: to make sure that trans folks do feel alone. It's

743
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: not good that they feel, you know, part of a

744
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: community or have self discovery or anything like that. No,

745
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: that's that's exactly right, and as such a good point

746
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: I hadn't quite thought about it, but yeah, like so

747
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: many people, yeah, find themselves through books or even just

748
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: fucking escape into books, you know, when you're dealing with

749
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: horrible fucking stuff in your life. Yeah. So she's a

750
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: recording engineer. And then she meets Bob Moog, which is

751
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: whose name is not apparently pronounced Moog like I called

752
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: it for my entire upbringing. Bob Mog is not the

753
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: sole inventor of the synthesizer, but he invented the first

754
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: commercially available one, which he called the Mog. Because he's

755
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: not an original namer, Bob Moog, he's great. He came

756
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: a lossical ship naming. Wasn't not a creative namer. Maybe

757
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: when your name's Mog, you're like, whatever, it's a weird

758
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: ass name anyway. You know, if I called it the

759
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: Killjoy when I invent an instrument, I don't know about that.

760
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: You know, that actually kind of flaps though, Yeah, all right,

761
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: it actually works all right, all right now I'm just

762
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: thinking of the Todd and the Lictorman. Ummm, we we

763
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: can skip the last one, okay, okay. So and she

764
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: meets him at a trade show. Um. One of her

765
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: professors was like, Hey, you should go to this electronic

766
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: music trade show, which was like really poorly attended. So

767
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: Bob Mog was asleep at his booth and she's like, hey,

768
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: I want to see your synthesizer and wakes him up.

769
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: And she's really into it, and she's she's not out yet,

770
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: she's like living as a boy at this point. Um,

771
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna dead name her because it's relevant to

772
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: the story, and you know, her name's Walter at this

773
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: point and it's relevant later. So it so Bob is

774
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: so she's like, I'm a bi synthesizer from you. Um.

775
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: And she's the fourth I believe, commercial like synthesizer player,

776
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: like professional synthesizer player in history. And so she buys

777
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: one of the first synthesizers from Bob, delivers it to

778
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: her apartment personally, they carry it up the steps together.

779
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: It's all of these custom made cabinets and shit, and

780
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: and then they start working together on synthesizers. Bob is

781
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: an engineer who likes music. Wendy is a musician who

782
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: likes engineering, and soon her and a few other musicians

783
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: it's not like just her and Bob, right, and she's

784
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: pretty clear about that. She's not trying to take more

785
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: credit than his due. They're consulting with him about what

786
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: they need the synthesizer to do, how it might happen,

787
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: what can be done, like touch responsive keys, where like

788
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: if you press them harder, the noise plays louder. All

789
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: that kind of shit. That's her idea, her development, and

790
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: all the while she starts writing jingles and sound effects

791
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: for TV with it, and she doesn't have much money,

792
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: but she wants more synthesizers. And this is a thing

793
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: that's affecting a lot of my friends right now, is

794
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: gear acquisition syndrome, where you spend all of your money

795
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: on gear. You're laughing because I think you either. You

796
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: must know some Margaret, Oh my god, it's me yo.

797
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: So I okay, this is embarrassing. When the pandemic started,

798
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna tell you how much money I

799
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: spent on synthesizers. I thought I was about to be

800
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: the next Daft Puck. I was like, when the pandemic

801
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: is over, I'm about to come out of this ship.

802
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm about to have an album. Watch out world. When

803
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: I tell you that I spent I'm not gonna say

804
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: it now. I'll tell you off camera, but like it's embarrassing.

805
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: I spent so much money on gear, like teenage engineering.

806
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: Need to send me like a Mike sponsored me. But

807
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: I cannot play a note. I can't play a link.

808
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: I just wanted the gear. I just there's something someone

809
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about, the gear acquisition. I know the vibe

810
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: of like I just want it in my possession. I

811
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: want to play with it. I want to tinker with it.

812
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,959
Speaker 1: I want to see what I can make happen, even

813
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: if it's nothing. I know it very well. Yeah, what

814
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: would your DJ name be? Oh? Well, I was at

815
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: DJ in college. My name was DJ Coleslaw, So I

816
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: have to have to go back to my to go

817
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: back to my roots. That's pretty good, Law. That's such

818
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: a banger of a name. Thank you. Also would fit

819
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: on your knuckles te Tuo. Yeah, brings up all the time.

820
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: What are your knuckle tat Mindsey sedition? Um, I don't

821
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: even know why I asked. It's again. They almost said doomsday,

822
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: and then I like changed my mind. I'm very proud

823
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: of myself. Last minute, you're like, whoa sedition? Well, okay,

824
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: I'll tell you and only don't worry. No one else

825
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: to hear this secret except for everyone's listening. I want

826
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: to get my my knuckles tattooed. And I this friend

827
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: who was this tattooist, and I was traveling through the

828
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: Lens where she lived, and I was like, oh, I'd

829
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: love to. She had like a tattoo shop at a

830
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: squat and I was like this rules and I was like, well,

831
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: you tattooed my knuckles and she's like what, I'm not

832
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: going to tatoo your knuckles. That's weird. And I was like,

833
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: I really want to tutoo my knuckles and she was

834
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: like no. And so then a year later, I was

835
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: passing back through Amsterdam and I was like, I want

836
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: you to tattoo and I wanted Doomsday. I was going

837
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: to get Doomsday tattooed. And then a year later I

838
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: no longer want to Doomsday. I wanted Sedition. And I

839
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: was passing back to Amsterdam and I was like, we

840
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: tattooed my knuckles and she was like, fine, I'll tattoo

841
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: your fucking knuckles. And I get there and it's a

842
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: language problem, she thought, I meant literally the skin of

843
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: my knuckle where it folds. Ah. She was like, oh,

844
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: your fingers. You want me to tattoo your fingers. And

845
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 1: to be fair, the word in English for the part

846
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: of this is is finger not knuckles, right, It's very literal. Yeah,

847
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: so that's how I uh, that's the language issue, is

848
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: why I got the better tattooed instead of the worst tattoo.

849
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad you didn't get the tattoo when you initially

850
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: wanted it, when she thought you meant the skin, the

851
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: skin of your fingers. Yeah. Yeah, Oh that'd be even

852
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: worse if she had tattooed the skin of my fingers

853
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: a doomsday Yeah, like real tiny Yeah, totally um. Anyway,

854
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: and so she doesn't have much money, and she has

855
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: gear acquisition syndrome, much like bridget Todd, and so this

856
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: is what Bridgittad should do to get more money. She

857
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: basically records a demo of what the synth can do

858
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: in order to exchange that work for more synth parts.

859
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: And this is her first release. Her first musical release

860
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 1: has the evocative title MOGE nine hundred series Electronic Music Systems.

861
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: It's like a textbook. Yeah, it's like twelve minutes log

862
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: and there's like a guy talking over it. About all

863
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: the stuff that they can do. And at this point

864
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: she teams up with another musician assists woman of color,

865
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: a jazz singer named and composer named Rachel Elkin Tore,

866
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: who agrees to produce for her, and they actually move

867
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: in together in Manhattan and become business partners. And they

868
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: spend like a decade or two like making music together,

869
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: and it fucking rules and she's left out of it.

870
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: And Wendy is very like she's left out of it.

871
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: And there's like a a page on her website that's like,

872
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: she rules, Here's why she's great. In nineteen sixty eight,

873
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: Wendy started HRT hormone replacement therapy under the care of

874
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: her doctor Harry Benjamin, who was either the first or

875
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: the second doctor to do this. There in the running

876
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: against each other with a Danish doctor named Christian Hamburger.

877
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: Both of them have been doing it since the forties

878
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: or fifties, but it was the mid sixties before they're

879
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: started being gender affirming clinics in the US. And her guy,

880
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: Harry Benjamin, just to tie him into the weird web

881
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: of history. Harry Benjamin was born in Germany in nineteen thirteen.

882
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: He came to the US as a quack doctor claiming

883
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: to have found the cure for tuberculosis, and then he

884
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: became a real doctor, and he studied at the Magnus

885
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: hirsch Fields Institute for Sexuality in Berlin about transsexuality and

886
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And I think he was involved heavily

887
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: in differentiating transsexuality from transvestism, which is to say, people

888
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: who wanted what was called a sex change at that

889
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: time versus people who wanted to either cross stress or

890
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: live socially as the opposite sex. He was also the

891
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: person who helped read Ericsson, who, for anyone who listened

892
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: last week, reed Ericson was this rich guy who owned

893
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: a leopard, who was a trans man, who was just

894
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: like a rich, philanthropic, weird industrialist guy who fucking ruled,

895
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: who financed all the trans clinics in like the sixties

896
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: and seventies. He also helped m Lynn Conway, who is

897
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: trans woman who worked for IBM, and it's like the

898
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: reason why we have today. Yeah, doctor Benjamin like comes

899
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: up all like there's so many people who like shout

900
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: out to doctor Benjamin. Yeah. Yeah, And he came so

901
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: far from a quack doctor. I mean I'm sure there's

902
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: people who are listening who are like, it's still a quack.

903
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: But he he made a lot of people very fucking happy,

904
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: and he saved a lot of fucking lives. Um that rules.

905
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know about the IBM connection. I need to

906
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: There's going to be more of these episodes. Okay, So

907
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, something also monumental happened Wendy with

908
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: Rachel as the producer. They released an album called Switched

909
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: on Bach, which is Bach on synthesizers. And this is

910
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: exactly the shit I was into when I was in

911
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: high school. Like it was this in Annie de Franco

912
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: fucking just maybe some skinny poppy and shit, but mostly

913
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: fucking Wendy Carlos switched Tombach and Annie to Franco. Ever,

914
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: need to understand the nineties creature I was switched Tombak

915
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: is groundbreaking. It's hard to overstate how important this is.

916
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: Like now, it sounds like gimmicky, right, you know when

917
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: you imagine like and it sounds give me, actually I

918
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: love it, but it sounds really like kind of cheesy, right.

919
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: It's incredibly complicated to make. The mogue at the time

920
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: was monophonic, you can only play one note at a time.

921
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: You want to play a chord, too fucking bad, You're

922
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: gonna have to record the whole thing three times for

923
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: a three note chord, and the whole instrument fell out

924
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: of tune constantly, So it's like play a couple measures

925
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: and then literally beat the synth with a hammer to

926
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: get it back into tune. Which are you aware of

927
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: the cliche about every transwoman being annoys me asian? No?

928
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: But it tracks. Yeah. I play in two bands. I

929
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: do a solo goffy pop project and a metal band.

930
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: And one time I played I showed. I showed up

931
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: at a show with my keytar and some other keyboards

932
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: and someone looked at me and was like, oh, I

933
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: didn't know there was a noise show here tonight, And

934
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: I'm like I didn't either. I played pop music. They're like,

935
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: are you sure you're sure you're not an a noise

936
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: band somewhere? Like, oh, I could have sworn. Yeah. Like

937
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: the number of like I've I've also literally had people

938
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: come up to me like um and just be like

939
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: oh hi, and they'll like name some other trans woman

940
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: in town, and I'm just like, I think we looked

941
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: different from each other. Whatever. Um, I'm sure this is

942
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: completely outside of experience a black person in this country.

943
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god, if I had a nickel for every

944
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: time it's like, oh, you're a tall black woman. I

945
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: met a tall black woman? Are you here? Yeah, it's

946
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: it's I know thee Yeah. So yeah. But I will

947
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: say we apparently us transwomen come from a long night

948
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: line of noise musicians. When I imagine her playing, I

949
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: mean she's actually a regular musician, but standing up and

950
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: beating the synth with a hammer, like, Okay, I see

951
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: where we got it from. It's probable that Wendy Carlos

952
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: was the only person in the world who could have

953
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: put together switched on BAK at the time, because it

954
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: took a world class musician. You're playing fucking BAK. It

955
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: took a world class electrical engineer because you're using prototype

956
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: equipment that you have to hit with hammers and fix constantly.

957
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: She spends more than a thousand hours recording the fucking thing,

958
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: which means only someone with access to a free studio

959
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: like her as a sound engineer, could have done it.

960
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: All the while she's working forty hours a week at

961
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: her day job. And is starting to transition socially and medically,

962
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: and to everyone's surprise, it was a hit. This wacky

963
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: synth classical album was number ten on the Billboard Top

964
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: two hundred and nineteen sixty eight. And she releases under

965
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: the name Walter Carlos. But she's already transitioning, and so

966
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: this is a major source of tension for her, right

967
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: because she does not want to be Walter, but she

968
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: has to be Walter in public because she is not

969
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: out yet. And so she plays one of the only

970
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: apparently two shows she's ever played in her life in

971
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: public besides it as a kid, she had to put

972
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: on boy drag and go talk about her new huge

973
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: pop hit record, like she put on like fake side

974
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: birds and used makeup to simulate a beard shadow, and

975
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: and this recks her emotionally, like she's like literally like

976
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: maybe I'm going to kill myself rather than get on stage.

977
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: And that is not stage fright. That is fucking fear

978
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: of transphobia. She also wins three fucking Grammys for it.

979
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: She wins Best Classical Album, Best Classical Performance with a

980
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: like weird subsection that I don't really understand, and Best

981
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: Engineered Classical recording. It's only the second classical album ever

982
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: to reach platinum status. A million fucking copies of this

983
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: cell and with her sudden influx of money, she's able

984
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: to get gender affirm in surgery. So in May nineteen

985
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: May nineteen seventy two, she goes and has gender affirm

986
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: in surgery, and like, we'll talk a little bit more

987
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: about that later, but like it it's incredibly important to

988
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: her and Rachel, her her collaborator, is one of the

989
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: only people who knows about all of this at the time.

990
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: So she becomes a recluse, and she spents seven years

991
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: or so not making public appearances, and like her friends

992
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: like cover for her, and Rachel's constantly covering for her.

993
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,959
Speaker 1: People call and be like, oh, Walter, he's uh, he's

994
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: in Boston, he's in Rhode Island visiting his family, you know,

995
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: like he's just like never home for seven years. And

996
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: and she talks about it when she when when she

997
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: does come out, she talks about how, um, you know,

998
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: she wasn't able to do musical collaboration besides with Rachel

999
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: right for like seven years at the when she's like

1000
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: the new Grammy winning hot classical, you know, person right,

1001
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: But the success of the album it also pushed the

1002
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: success of the synthesizer. It's why the Beatles, Emerson Lake

1003
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: and Palmer Stevie. Wonder all those people started fucking with synths.

1004
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: And she starts soundtracking because her main thing, she wants

1005
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: to be a composer. She's like, not a She's kind

1006
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: of actually a little bit bitter. Doesn't totally happened to me.

1007
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: If I released a cover album and that was like

1008
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: my big album, I'd be like a little bit bitter, right,

1009
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'd be like, hell yeah, I got my

1010
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 1: dick cut off. Fuck yeah. But I'd be like, oh,

1011
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, she uh with a clockwork orange. Her and

1012
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: Mogue built a vocoder, which is a human synthesizer where

1013
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: it takes a human voice and it modulates a synthesizer.

1014
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: Have you played with them in your gear acquisition? They're

1015
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: so fucking the band Chromio. One of the guys uses

1016
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: the one, and I'm obsessed, like this is I'm trying

1017
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: to hold it in. This is very much my shit.

1018
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: I will nerd out. No, I love it. Yeah, no,

1019
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: this is I'm very happy that you're the guest for this. Then,

1020
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: like I I was like, as I was writing all this,

1021
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: I was like, ah, how And I was like, I

1022
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: think with bridget I can be pretty nerdy about those.

1023
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: Oh this is like if you want, if you like I, yes,

1024
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: this is very much my ship. I'll just leave it

1025
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: a cool No. I love vocoders. I m I use

1026
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: them as like training wheels for songwriting because it's like, oh,

1027
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: that's because I know what note I'm singing because I'm

1028
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: pressing it on a keyboard. Because what happens, like in

1029
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot of modern vocoding for anyone who's that familiars,

1030
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: you sing into a microphone while playing a keyboard, and

1031
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 1: your your voice modulates the synth noises. Um, so it

1032
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: comes out in the note that you're pressing on the keyboard. Um. Yeah,

1033
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: I fucking And so this is the first use of

1034
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: a vocoder in recorded commercial music is a clock record.

1035
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: And to say like, like think about like this is

1036
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: the thing that trips me up about this is like

1037
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: we if not for Wendy Carlos, so much of music

1038
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: just wouldn't fucking exist. Yeah, so much of music that

1039
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: we love when and like how and and also how

1040
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: much did we like the fact that transphobia was such

1041
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: a barrier to Wendy, you know, collaborating with people this

1042
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: like hot young Grammy winning performer, we missed out, Like

1043
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: it really obviously was horrible for Wendy, but all of

1044
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: us missed out on. Like I think about all the

1045
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: bangers who could have been listening to but transphobia like

1046
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: prevented us. It's just it's one of those things that

1047
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: really trips me up. But I'm I'm so grateful for

1048
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: folks like Wendy who still go out there and create

1049
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: and do shit. But like, the barrier shouldn't be so high,

1050
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: the cautionoudn't be so high, and we all lose out. Yeah, no, totally.

1051
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: That is such a fucking good point. Yeah, because seven

1052
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: years no musical collaboration and like and when she does

1053
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: finally come out and start doing any more, she she's

1054
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: all over the places the eighties and shit right and

1055
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: like as like pushing a ton of stuff like yeah,

1056
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: so so yeah, she does the first vocoder and now

1057
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: her and Rachel, who again the sort of silent partner

1058
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: alist sometimes as a composer a composer, sometimes it's composing

1059
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: her own work, and sometimes it's just working as a producer.

1060
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: And they release a ton of music, and Wendy releases

1061
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: an ambient album ten years before New age music hits,

1062
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: three years before Brian Eno supposedly invented ambient music. No

1063
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: offense to Brian Eno, but he didn't invent ambient music, apparently,

1064
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: Wendy did. I mean people have probably played ambient music

1065
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: before this, right, Like, but yeah, music for airport slaps,

1066
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: but I don't know he didn't he invented it. Yeah, yeah,

1067
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: And Wendy Carlos manages to get on the fucking Billboard

1068
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: charts with an ambient album that is two records, one

1069
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: side of each record for four the four seasons. Like

1070
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: that's how good she is. She writes music for The

1071
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: Shining and Tron. After The Shining, Rachel moves away with

1072
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: her husband it to moves to France, continues her own career.

1073
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: She composed the soundtrack for Ready Player one as the

1074
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: most recent example that I found. In nineteen eighty eight,

1075
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: Wendy co wrote music with weird Al Yankovic my Yankovic,

1076
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: my favorite straight edge vegan accordionist. And in nineteen seventy eight,

1077
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: before The Shining, actually she comes out and she comes

1078
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: out to a journalist named Arthur Bell, who had covered

1079
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: the Stonewall Riots for The Village Voice. Check out the

1080
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: four part series on that we just covered. I actually

1081
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: don't know whether he was the Village Voice. One journalist

1082
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: of the Village Voice, like did it like brought out

1083
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: the crowds, was like trap was like in the riots,

1084
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: like all this shit, And I actually don't know whether

1085
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: it was Arthur Bell or not. And these were released

1086
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: in the surprisingly based magazine Playboy, not the Stonewall stuff,

1087
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: the stuff about about Wendy Carlos. And she says she

1088
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: picked Wendy. She picked Wendy picked Playboy because it had

1089
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: quote always been concerned with liberation, and she was anxious

1090
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: to liberate herself because Playboy had been involved in a

1091
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: lot of like radical culture stuff. It's a fascinating interview.

1092
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: I recommend it. She talks about how she had to

1093
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: essentially she had no sexual interest before transitioning. She largely

1094
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: doesn't talk much about her public her private life, but

1095
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: she does during this interview, and I think it's like

1096
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: kind of fair to talk about in this context. She

1097
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: had essentially no sexual interest before transitioning, and then afterwards

1098
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: she had to struggle against her like Catholic guilt. But

1099
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: she became a sexual person bisexual and became happy about it.

1100
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: And there's a couple quotes from it that stand out.

1101
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: One is Playboy asks her, do you have any idea

1102
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: what would have happened if you hadn't had the operation?

1103
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: Carlos says, yes, I'd be dead. And there's another one quote,

1104
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: being a transsexual makes me a barometer of other people's

1105
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: own comfort with themselves. Those who aren't sexually at peace

1106
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: with themselves tend to be the most uptight around me.

1107
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: Others who are really relaxed. I think it's no big deal,

1108
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: and I really like that certainly. Track Yeah, yeah, and

1109
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: ever since she's released under her own name, Wendy Carlos

1110
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: instead of you know, the sort of fake name Walter,

1111
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: And there was basically no backlash when she came out,

1112
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: and her only regret was not coming out sooner. Her

1113
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: parents at the time of her coming out did not

1114
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: accept her. I don't know if that changed, but overall,

1115
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, she talks about a lot in the interview,

1116
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, some people were dicks about it, but

1117
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: like overall, like everyone's like, okay, cool, you know, that's

1118
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: that's interesting. And like a lot of her old friends

1119
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: were chill with it. And and when she writes about herself,

1120
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: she focuses on her music. She doesn't write much about

1121
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: trans stuff. Honestly, the Playboy interview is the main place

1122
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: I can hear her talking about her sexuality and her gender,

1123
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: and I can't blame her. Sometimes I think that the

1124
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: fact that I'm trans is like the least interesting and

1125
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: important part of me. And there's a reason that this

1126
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: podcast hasn't been like heavily focused on trans stuff. Right

1127
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: to me, it's just this, it's this thing about me.

1128
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: It's not something I've done right, So, like, I'm much

1129
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: more interested in like what people do than who they are.

1130
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: But who we are, of course matters, right because of

1131
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: the way the world views us. And that's why I'm

1132
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,439
Speaker 1: talking about her transnis today, is because people are trying

1133
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: to fucking eradicate us and looking back and seeing ourselves

1134
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: as parts of history. Important parts of history matter. So so, Wendy,

1135
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: if you're listening, thank you for paving the way. I

1136
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: mean it sincerely, um, And if I got anything wrong

1137
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: in here, I'm sorry. That's my piece about Wendy Carlos.

1138
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm like tearing up this Margaret person a pro like

1139
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: it's important. It isn't important, like at a time when yeah,

1140
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: transnis is in the cross hairs, it isn't important to

1141
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: look back and think about like all the important shit like, yeah,

1142
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: I didn't Wendy Carlos make the Doctor Who theme song?

1143
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: Like that is like you biquitous in our culture. Fact

1144
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: check that I want to say that's correct, but definitely

1145
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: a double check. But like, shit, that is you biquitous

1146
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: in the culture we would not have if not for

1147
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: trans folks. And it's like it wasn't it wasn't a

1148
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: Doctor Who, but it was Ron Great. Okay, um, what

1149
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: Tony Carlos. This sounds like Wendy Carlos. Okay, maybe maybe

1150
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: that's it. Um, yeah, this is I. I love Wendy Carlos.

1151
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're doing he did this. Yeah, my

1152
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: heart is full. Yeah no, I was. I was like sending.

1153
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna talk about Wendy Carlos is

1154
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: somebod who doesn't who Wendy Carlos is. And that was

1155
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: not a problem I ran into. I'm very happy for that.

1156
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: But we should also talk about the cool person who

1157
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: is bridget Todd before we come back on Wednesday and

1158
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: talk about yet another cool trans person. The next Wednesday,

1159
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: trans person literally saved millions of lives and no one's

1160
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: ever heard of him. Let's let's write that wrong. But

1161
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:50,919
Speaker 1: you haven't saved millions? No, no, But what have you done? Huh?

1162
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: What have I done? Well? Working with Sophie and the

1163
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: incredible team at cool Zone, I made a podcast called

1164
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: Internet Hate Machine, which she should check out out. It's

1165
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: about the intersection of online harassment and the ways that

1166
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: our Internet is, you know, used against marginalized people, black women, transpokes,

1167
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: Twitter folks, etcetera. Um, and the way that that's like

1168
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: sucking up our political system. UM. I make a podcast

1169
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: on iHeart called There No Girls on the Internet. You

1170
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: can check out my uh DC focused news podcast called

1171
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: city Cast DC. I have another podcast called Beef about

1172
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: history's juiciest rivalries. Is that it? Yeah? That's yeah. That

1173
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: one's that one's brand new. Um, thank you, thank you?

1174
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: Next chapter podcasts. Um. Yeah. I'm a failed electronic musician.

1175
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: I love music. I have a lot of questions about

1176
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:48,959
Speaker 1: your musical history, Margaret. Please okay, Sophi, you got anything

1177
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: to plug well? Is that cool Zone Media and all

1178
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: the things. Okay, I'll plug. My dark pop project is

1179
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: called Nomadic War Machine. My uh, it's kind of post

1180
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: punky project with only an EP. It is called the Lathe.

1181
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 1: And my feminist black metal band is called Femina School

1182
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: And all of those are on band camp and you

1183
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: can listen to the thing that I do besides all

1184
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: the other things I do. I know you came up

1185
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: with all the titles because they're very good. I did.

1186
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: I already know, I already know. Hey, we'll see you

1187
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a

1188
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. Or more podcasts on cool

1189
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or

1190
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1191
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.