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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,

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Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who

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Speaker 3: love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late September of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Sarah is going to be interviewing Sam Kelly, who is

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Speaker 2: a former therapist who now has a business where she

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Speaker 2: teaches a course called Little Cycle Breakers, which is about

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Speaker 2: getting kids to notice what needs doing and take more

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Speaker 2: response ability at home. So I'm sure we have a

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Speaker 2: lot of listeners who think that sounds like a great idea.

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Speaker 2: I w'd love to have more people who live with

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Speaker 2: us participate in taking care of things. So Sarah is

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Speaker 2: noticing what needs to be done and participating in household life,

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Speaker 2: something that happens a lot in your house.

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Speaker 3: Not at all, I think been noticing in particular is

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Speaker 3: very much not happening, and I do feel like it's

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Speaker 3: very easy to be like I'm in the little kid phase.

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Speaker 3: I'm in the little kid phase. My kids can't do anything,

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Speaker 3: and then like you look up and you're like, we

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Speaker 3: are not in that phase. They could have been doing

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Speaker 3: so much and years have gone by. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't feel like there's a lot of noticing that goes on,

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Speaker 3: and I'd really like to work towards that. Plus just

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Speaker 3: having people have some more regular responsibilities compared to what

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Speaker 3: we have going on right now. Like if I'm cooking

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Speaker 3: dinner on Sunday, I want kids to be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: let me set the table and put the waters on

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Speaker 3: the table, or let's help clean up after the meal.

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Speaker 3: I want to get my backpack stuff ready so then

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Speaker 3: I'm not freaking out in the morning like maybe I do.

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Speaker 3: So I am super super excited for this interview and

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Speaker 3: learning more from Sam because I actually feel like we're

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Speaker 3: at the prime moment to work on some of these things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, maybe she would say we were kind of

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Speaker 3: late because I think some of her stuff is geared

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Speaker 3: to younger kids, but still sure, there's a lot we

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Speaker 3: can benefit from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to say, I mean, I love the

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Speaker 2: idea of people noticing and doing stuff, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's great when it happens, I would say you probably

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Speaker 2: don't have to rely on the noticing. If noticing is

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Speaker 2: the hoop you're trying to get through, that may be

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Speaker 2: a really challenging one to do. However, if your goal

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Speaker 2: is just to get the kids to help more around

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Speaker 2: the house, getting your head around the idea of just

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Speaker 2: asking more for them to do, Like my kids almost

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Speaker 2: never turned down a direct request, Like it would take

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Speaker 2: a lot for somebody to be like, if I'm like,

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Speaker 2: empty the dishwasher please, for them to be like, no,

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Speaker 2: I won't, and that would cause a real issue. So

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Speaker 2: I need to just be like, would you please empty

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Speaker 2: the dishwasher, or let's all clear the table together, or

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Speaker 2: why don't you go do the pots and pans and

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Speaker 2: you do this part? Or all right, kids, you need

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Speaker 2: to go help take out the trash right now, or

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Speaker 2: the cleaning service is coming tomorrow, so your room floors

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Speaker 2: need to be picked up, because otherwise no one's responsible

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Speaker 2: for where your stuff winds up. That's not going to

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Speaker 2: be my fault when things are are lost, or if

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Speaker 2: you would like your laundry done, great, but it needs

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Speaker 2: to be in the laundry room by nine am this morning,

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Speaker 2: otherwise it will not be happening today. So you know,

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Speaker 2: I think you can just calmly ask for things. Again,

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Speaker 2: would it be great if they noticed and like just

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Speaker 2: did it. Yeah, But there are also other ways to

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Speaker 2: get more help instead of just hoping that the noticing

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Speaker 2: will happen.

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Speaker 3: And that's even hard sometimes. I mean, I'm a little

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Speaker 3: jealous that you can just ask someone nicely to please

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Speaker 3: unload the dishwasher and it will happen. I wish I

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Speaker 3: could say that it's true. In our house, I might

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Speaker 3: get a know, I might get my question ignored. I

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Speaker 3: mean usually after repeated requests, perhaps an escalating tone, it

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Speaker 3: might happen, but not quickly. And I really do feel

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Speaker 3: like that is to some extent just our fault, like

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Speaker 3: we just didn't build that into the culture of you

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Speaker 3: guys need to help us with stuff, and I feel

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Speaker 3: like it's time.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I would also say, I mean sometimes the pushback,

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Speaker 2: that way people try to push back is say, well,

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Speaker 2: why didn't you ask so and so or so and

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Speaker 2: so hasn't done anything today. And the problem is, if

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Speaker 2: there are like four older kids, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people you could point out to maybe it's been not

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Speaker 2: doing anything today or something like that, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I have to come up with a calm answer to that,

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Speaker 2: which is just that I will ask them to do

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Speaker 2: something else and I am asking you to do this,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully, you know, you just say that enough.

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Speaker 1: Eventually maybe we'll lessen it. We'll see.

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Speaker 2: But I'm very excited to hear what Sam Kelly has

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Speaker 2: to say here as well.

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Speaker 1: So let's go to the interview.

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Speaker 4: Well, I am so excited today to be here with

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Speaker 4: Sam Kelly, who is the author of an audio course

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Speaker 4: that we're going to talk all about, and it has

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Speaker 4: to do with kids noticing, as you heard in the intro,

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Speaker 4: Laura and I are not the best about having our

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Speaker 4: kids help out around the home. And Sam, Laura and

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Speaker 4: I have kids ranging mes from like before to seventeen

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Speaker 4: between us, we have eight kids, so lots of experience

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Speaker 4: with parenting not knocking it out of the park in

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Speaker 4: terms of making sure the kids are helping and contributing

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Speaker 4: to our home life. So I'm super excited to chat.

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Speaker 4: So tell our listeners a little bit about your background

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Speaker 4: and your current career life, and I guess a little

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Speaker 4: bit how you got interested in this particular topic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 6: So I am a therapist turned coach for mothers. I

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Speaker 6: teach kids how to be proactive in the home, break

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Speaker 6: this side full of motherhood burnout, and to also break

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Speaker 6: the cycle of inequitable partnership. And you know, it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: That you mentioned and I hear this a lot, like, Ah, like.

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Speaker 6: I'm not the best at teaching my kids how to

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Speaker 6: help around the house.

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Speaker 7: And I totally.

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Speaker 6: Relate to that because when you are the parents, and

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Speaker 6: oftentimes as women, we are the default parent, and you're

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Speaker 6: working outside the home, you're basically working two jobs full

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Speaker 6: time and then some When we think about trying to

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Speaker 6: get our kids to be contributors in the home, it

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Speaker 6: can feel like just one more thing on our list.

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Speaker 6: And when we go to try to teach them.

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Speaker 5: How to like unload the dishwasher, or.

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Speaker 6: Here's how to clean up after yourself or sleep up

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Speaker 6: a mess, whatever it is, it can feel so much

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Speaker 6: harder to get them.

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Speaker 5: To do it.

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Speaker 6: And at the end of the day, I'm like, we

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Speaker 6: just need to get the stuff done, so I don't

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Speaker 6: have time to go to battle with my kids just

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Speaker 6: to get a bathroom cleaned. Five thousand things on my

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Speaker 6: to do list.

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Speaker 5: I just need to get it cleaned.

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Speaker 7: And it's so much.

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Speaker 6: Easier if I am quicker, if I just do it myself.

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Speaker 6: And so I just want to give like so much

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Speaker 6: empathy and compassion because I have totally been there. I've

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Speaker 6: read all the stuff and I was like, that sounds great,

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Speaker 6: But I just need to be able to like move

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Speaker 6: on with my life because I have so many things

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Speaker 6: to do and having my kids like learn how to

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Speaker 6: do the dishes at the very bottom of my list.

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Speaker 6: So that is what we are doing, and we're doing

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Speaker 6: it in the easiest, simplest, most low list way for

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Speaker 6: busy parents because I am a busy working mom of

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Speaker 6: three and if it's not practical or realistic for my life,

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Speaker 6: it's not going to happen. So that is what we're doing,

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Speaker 6: and it's honestly changing home dynamics and women especially lives

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Speaker 6: everywhere all around the world because it is so practical

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Speaker 6: and doable and it actually works.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Well, let's start a little bit from

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Speaker 3: the beginning and talk about what this kind of like

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Speaker 3: in visis load is because you mentioned the invisible load

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Speaker 3: and a lot of your work, and yet I want,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we all have kind of our idea of

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Speaker 3: what that might look like, but I want the Sam

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Speaker 3: Kelly version, like, what is this invisible load? What is

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Speaker 3: it that actually needs to be noticed?

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Speaker 6: Yes, okay, So the invisible load is not the fact

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Speaker 6: that you're doing the dishes. It's not the physical task itself.

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Speaker 6: It's the fact that you have five hundred tabs open

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Speaker 6: in your brain simultaneously while you're doing the dishes. It's

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Speaker 6: the way that you are tracking whether or not you're

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Speaker 6: running out of detergent for the dishes. It's the fact

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Speaker 6: that you know where everything goes in the kitchen and

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Speaker 6: nobody else does. Like you know where the cake pan goes,

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Speaker 6: You know where like the obscure things go. It's the

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Speaker 6: fact that you know how long a cycle takes of

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Speaker 6: dishes before it needs to be unloaded. It's the fact

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Speaker 6: that you know that you are planning a certain meal

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Speaker 6: tomorrow night that you need a certain kitchen utenial for

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Speaker 6: and it's currently in the dish washer and it needs

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Speaker 6: to be cleaned in order for you to use it tomorrow,

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Speaker 6: So it's tracking all these things. The physical load or

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Speaker 6: the mental load is the invisible. It's like the engine

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Speaker 6: under the hood that makes all the physical tasks possible.

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Speaker 6: And it's the type of thing that you have no

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Speaker 6: idea how all consuming and endless it is until you're

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Speaker 6: the one that's being the engine for the entire family,

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Speaker 6: moving the whole car forward.

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Speaker 3: This correcks me up because you're talking about like thinking

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Speaker 3: ahead and planning ahead, and this just past weekend. I

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Speaker 3: was like, Oh, anybody have any dinner ideas? And my

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Speaker 3: husband's like, very innocently, like it's not his fault, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, how about this like chipottle beef resbee with tacos?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like my head exploded because I'm like, do

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Speaker 3: you understand that's a slow cooker recipe and we don't

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Speaker 3: even have the ingredients and I don't plan to go

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Speaker 3: to the store because I have to take this ki

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Speaker 3: into a plate and like like.

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Speaker 5: Here's that that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't want to even say it's the planning.

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Speaker 3: It's like the orchestration and like understanding how all the

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Speaker 3: pieces kind of like fit to yes.

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Speaker 6: Right, Well, it's like the anticipating of needs, and in

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Speaker 6: order to anticipate needs, you have to have an awareness

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Speaker 6: of what the needs are to begin with. So when

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Speaker 6: people say, well, just tell me what I need to

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Speaker 6: do and make me a list, which like we'll talk

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Speaker 6: about like that's exactly like what a chour list is.

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Speaker 5: Just tell me what to do, mom.

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Speaker 7: I mean kids that may or may not actually do

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Speaker 7: it right.

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Speaker 6: Just make me a list and I'll do it. The

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Speaker 6: amount of work mental work, cognitive like work that has

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Speaker 6: to go into making the list is really really significant,

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Speaker 6: and that's the stuff that wears.

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Speaker 5: On us all the time.

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Speaker 6: And it's also it's also be really demoralizing because it's

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Speaker 6: like nobody sees that work. You're for sure not getting

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Speaker 6: like a parade for the fact that you're doing that work.

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Speaker 6: And so then when you're like grumpy or resentful or

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Speaker 6: just like so worn down and at the end of

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Speaker 6: your rope and everyone's like, what's wrong with you?

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Speaker 5: Can't you just relax?

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Speaker 7: What's going on? It's like.

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Speaker 3: I love it, I absolutely love it. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of listeners know exactly what you're talking about, and

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Speaker 3: it is hard to put into words, but I think

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Speaker 3: you're giving us a really valuable way of thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: So that's perfect. Let's step over to the concept of noticing.

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Speaker 3: And this is what actually initially struck a chord with me.

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Speaker 3: I heard you. I don't know if it was you

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Speaker 3: or just her talking about you, but Kendra Dauchy of

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Speaker 3: The Lazy Genius love her work, and she had an

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Speaker 3: episode where she talked all about how she learned about

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Speaker 3: your stuff and how the key for her was finding

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Speaker 3: out that your goal is to not just Again, it's

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Speaker 3: not teaching people to check things off of the list

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Speaker 3: because that serves no one, and then the person making

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Speaker 3: the list is still tearing their hair out because they're

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Speaker 3: the ones making the list, but rather getting behind it

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Speaker 3: to getting kids to notice. And that was like one

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Speaker 3: of the first times I had actually heard noticing used

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Speaker 3: in that way. How did you come up with that concept?

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Speaker 3: And what does it mean to notice?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so about let's see two years ago now, I

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Speaker 6: hit a breaking point. I had been married at that

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Speaker 6: point to my husband for eleven years, and it got

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Speaker 6: to the point where I just could not do everything

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Speaker 6: that was expected of me to do every single day,

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Speaker 6: and I started to subfront the then inequity in my

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Speaker 6: own relationship with my husband, and it was a very,

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Speaker 6: very long, slow process. We worked on it really really

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Speaker 6: intently for over a year. We're still working on it

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Speaker 6: because I feel like it's a journey, not a destination together,

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Speaker 6: and so we started working on it for like the years, okay,

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Speaker 6: and at that point it had gotten a lot better.

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Speaker 6: So then it's a Sriday night, I'm making a Saturday

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Speaker 6: morning chort list for my kids, like a to do list,

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Speaker 6: and I just have this huge moment and I drop

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Speaker 6: the magic marker through the floor and I was like,

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Speaker 6: what am I doing. I just spent the last year

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Speaker 6: of my life teaching my husband how to not rely

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Speaker 6: on me to notice what needs to be done in

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Speaker 6: the home and do it, and how to take initiative

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Speaker 6: and be proactive and not need me to give him

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Speaker 6: in a list, a list or assignments. But I am

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Speaker 6: teaching my kids to rely on me to give them

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Speaker 6: a list and make it, make them assignments.

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Speaker 5: So the next morning.

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Speaker 6: I said, hey, guys, there's some things that need to

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Speaker 6: be done in the home. I'm not going to give

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Speaker 6: you a list, because here's what we're going to do.

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Speaker 6: And I just made up this term called notice and do.

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Speaker 6: You're going to notice what needs to happen, and then

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Speaker 6: we're going to do it. And I think it's important,

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Speaker 6: Like you said, like, what does noticing mean?

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Speaker 5: We, especially as.

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Speaker 6: Women, we know what noticing means inside and out because

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Speaker 6: we're the ones that are by default oftentimes expected to

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Speaker 6: be the noticers. So just because we know how to

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Speaker 6: do something doesn't mean our kids are automatically going to

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Speaker 6: know how to do it, So we need to teach them.

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Speaker 6: Is absolutely a teachable skill when you know how to

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Speaker 6: do it and the simple way to do it. So

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Speaker 6: I taught them how to notice. I taught them how

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Speaker 6: to see different things that need to be done in

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Speaker 6: the home, whether it's a bathroom countertop that needs to

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Speaker 6: be sprayed down or a floor that can be vacuumed,

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Speaker 6: or how to unload a dishwasher. How to see when

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Speaker 6: a dishwasher needs to be unloaded and then take the

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Speaker 6: initiatives to do it without me saying, hey, the dishwasher's son,

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Speaker 6: can you go unload it. I taught them a concept

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Speaker 6: called we just call it resetting a room, So how

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Speaker 6: to get a room back to like a baseline. We

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Speaker 6: call it like clean enough quote unquote levels, because we're

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Speaker 6: not going for perfection here, but we are going for improvement.

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Speaker 6: And then what started to happen was I went from

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Speaker 6: essentially like a one mom band to an entire full

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Speaker 6: family team of capable humans who are able to take

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Speaker 6: initiative and help manage not only the physical paths of

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Speaker 6: the home, but carry their own mental load of seeing

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Speaker 6: for themselves what needs to be happened, and then do

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Speaker 6: it without relying on me.

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Speaker 5: And it was a life.

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Speaker 3: Changing, amazing Well, we're going to take a quick break

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Speaker 3: and when we come back, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 3: some specific scenarios. And even though I know you can't

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Speaker 3: reveal all because I'm sure you share details in your course.

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Speaker 7: Let's talk about it.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, all right, Well we'll be right back. All right,

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Speaker 3: We are back, and Sam has shared her amazing story

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Speaker 3: of how she was able to get her kids, specifically

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Speaker 3: to start noticing and the changes that that caused around

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Speaker 3: her home, which sound amazing. So I'm sure all of

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Speaker 3: us listening are like me and are like, hmmm, how

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Speaker 3: can I make that happen? So, if you had to

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Speaker 3: summarize is your method? Obviously you go into much more

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Speaker 3: detail in your course, give us the kind of like

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Speaker 3: the free version. I want to know, how do you

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Speaker 3: get kids to notice?

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Speaker 6: Yes, let's get into it. Okay, So it's a really

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Speaker 6: simple three step process. One you're going to teach your

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Speaker 6: kids age appropriate cleaning skills, and I'll tell you the

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Speaker 6: system for that. Two you're going to teach your kids

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Speaker 6: noticing skills. This is where the proactive initiative is taking

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Speaker 6: things comes into play. And then three we're going to

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Speaker 6: do cycle breaking conversations. And this is really important because

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Speaker 6: when kids understand the deeper why behind all of this,

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Speaker 6: like not just because we're cleaning the house because I

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Speaker 6: said so, but that there are real intentional reasons behind

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Speaker 6: why we are shifting away from the tor chart and

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Speaker 6: proactively noticing in the home, it starts to shift how

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Speaker 6: kids think. So again that's the cleaning skills, noticing skills,

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Speaker 6: and then the cycle breaking conversations. So the way that

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Speaker 6: I teach the cleaning skills is through daily responsibilit these

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Speaker 6: that are consistent that they can have ownership over every

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Speaker 6: single day. So this can be specific to each child,

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Speaker 6: or you can have all of your kids do the

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Speaker 6: same things. It's totally flexible depending on your kids' ages,

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Speaker 6: and needs, and we call it the big three. So,

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Speaker 6: for example, my kid's big three is they are responsible

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Speaker 6: every day for making their beds. They are responsible for

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Speaker 6: noticing whether or not the dishwasher needs to be unloaded,

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Speaker 6: and then if it does need to be unloaded, they

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Speaker 6: each take a section to unload and noticing and managing

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Speaker 6: the entirety of their own laundry so that seeing when

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Speaker 6: it needs to go in the wash, running a cycle,

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Speaker 6: tracking when it needs to be switched over to the dryer,

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Speaker 6: putting it in the dryer, taking it out the dryer

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Speaker 6: when it's done, sorting, and folding. So every single day

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Speaker 6: they do their big three. It's off my plate. I

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Speaker 6: don't have to worry about it. They just know that

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Speaker 6: that is the expectation. And this is the part that's

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Speaker 6: actually most similar to the church, which is nice because

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Speaker 6: it gives them a sense of familiarity, like we're not

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Speaker 6: completely pulling the rug out from underneath them and being

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Speaker 6: like and now we're going.

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Speaker 8: To do something completely different than you've never done before.

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Speaker 8: There's kind of a sense of safety and that familiarity

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Speaker 8: of like, oh yeah, like this is somewhat familiar, like

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Speaker 8: I've done this before.

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Speaker 5: And it kind of has that element of.

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Speaker 6: Fox checking, with the difference that I am not the

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Speaker 6: one saying have you done your laundry? You need to

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Speaker 6: do the laundry. Remember, it needs to be switched over.

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Speaker 6: Not to say that in the beginning, there's not reminders

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Speaker 6: and we're not teaching them because it's a process, but

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Speaker 6: we're putting the emphasis on the noticing. So if a

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Speaker 6: kid comes to me and it's like, hey, Mom, do

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Speaker 6: I do I need to put a lot of.

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Speaker 5: La laundry in?

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Speaker 7: I'm like, I don't know, have you noticed it?

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Speaker 6: Remember, noticing is a huge part of the work. So

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Speaker 6: just little phrases like that that really really emphasize the

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Speaker 6: importance of noticing.

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Speaker 5: And sometimes for.

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Speaker 6: Example, like laundry, my kids don't need to run a

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Speaker 6: load of laundry every day because they're not generating that

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Speaker 6: much laundry, but we still practice checking every day to

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Speaker 6: see if it needs to be done, and that's a

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Speaker 6: huge part of the noticing. So that's the big three Again,

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Speaker 6: it can be anything you want. So I've had some

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Speaker 6: people say, like their kids big three is taking their

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Speaker 6: shoes off and putting their shoes.

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Speaker 5: Away, their backpack away, water bottle.

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Speaker 6: Away after school, making sure they clear the dishes after

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Speaker 6: they eat, and it like.

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Speaker 5: Tidying their roots.

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Speaker 6: It can be anything. So that's the big three. Then

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Speaker 6: the way we teach the noticing is in addition to

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Speaker 6: their daily big three, they do one notice and do

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Speaker 6: of their shoesing, and in the course I teach how

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Speaker 6: to show them how to notice, so they can start

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Speaker 6: learning that skill. But the cool thing is then you're

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Speaker 6: giving them the freedom and the independence to choose whatever

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Speaker 6: it is that they want to proactively choose to notice,

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Speaker 6: so they have a really big element of control and

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Speaker 6: they get to it can be different every day, it

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Speaker 6: can be the same every day, whatever it is they

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Speaker 6: want to do. And then the cycle breaking script is

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Speaker 6: where we talk about kind of big concepts like society,

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Speaker 6: societal expectations that are gender for men and women in relationships.

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Speaker 5: We talk about what burnout.

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Speaker 6: Means, we talk about what being a cycle breaker means,

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Speaker 6: we talk about what inequity in partnerships looks like. But

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Speaker 6: we do it in ways that are very very simple,

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Speaker 6: understandable and age appropriate for kids. So they start having

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Speaker 6: these light bulb moments like oh, I didn't know that

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Speaker 6: as a girl, like my daughter, I have a daughter

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Speaker 6: who's twelve and a daughter who's ten, So I don't

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Speaker 6: tell my daughters that when they grow up side culture

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Speaker 6: is going to expect them to be that invisible engine

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Speaker 6: under the hood. And what happens when you're the invisible

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Speaker 6: engine under the hood. They're going to walk into the

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Speaker 6: same situation that so many of us are in where

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Speaker 6: we wake up one morning and we're like, what, like,

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Speaker 6: what is happening? I Am being crushed and no one

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Speaker 6: can see it or understand it. And for my son,

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Speaker 6: who's just he's almost seven next month, he will one

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Speaker 6: hundred percent walk into relationship expecting, right if he's going

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Speaker 6: to head of a normative relationship, expecting the woman to do

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Speaker 6: it all. So we have to give them the language

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Speaker 6: to understand the importance of this and why we're doing

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Speaker 6: it differently, because it's not mom's job to do everything,

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Speaker 6: because we are in a family team, and family teams

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Speaker 6: work all together, and that my son is just as

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Speaker 6: capable of carrying the mental load as women, as his sisters,

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Speaker 6: as his mom. We talk about what mental load means.

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Speaker 6: So all of these three pieces work together, and that's

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Speaker 6: where the magic happens en. That's where everything starts to shift.

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Speaker 3: I love your emphasis on like making sure you're teaching

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Speaker 3: both genders and explaining the inequities to both, because it's

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Speaker 3: not enough to be like, oh, well, empower our girls,

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Speaker 3: Like no, that doesn't help. It's actually probably even more

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Speaker 3: important to educate the other side. So yeah, I love

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Speaker 3: that you include that. I'm curious what happens when there's

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Speaker 3: failure because I'm thinking about my own home here, and

439
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 3: if I were like, I mean, obviously, it's probably less

440
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 3: likely if you're following all the steps and doing things

441
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 3: in a step wise fashion. But if tomorrow I was

442
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 3: like middle child, you're going to notice your laundry, there

443
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 3: would be failure, and then there would be like a

444
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 3: day where he's like, I have soccer and I have

445
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 3: no clean uniform. What do I do? Is like part

446
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 3: of the training, like letting them fail or like how

447
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 3: do you address it when it just doesn't happen?

448
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 7: Oh, that's such a good question.

449
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 6: So first, I would reframe it that we're not failing,

450
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 6: we're learning. So second, like and absolutely it's going to

451
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 6: be a process, and for us as women, it's so

452
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 6: so understandable that like we're exhausted, we're burnt out, we're done.

453
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 6: The thought of having our kids proactively noticed feels like

454
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 6: a fantasy and a dream, and we want it to

455
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 6: happen like this because we are just at the end

456
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 6: of our rope. We have to understand that it is

457
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 6: a like learning process, just like I say, you taught

458
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 6: your kids to tie your shoes, want tire your shoes,

459
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 6: tie their shoes, or read, or learn social skills to

460
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 6: make friends, to step by step process and in the

461
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 6: course I talk to you and teach you how to

462
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 6: take individual steps where we teach them in small ways,

463
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 6: every single step that needs to happen. While also, and

464
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 6: this is a huge part managing our own expectations because

465
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 6: like I said, we really really want it to happen immediately,

466
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 6: but that's not our kids' job to fulfill for us,

467
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 6: like that's our stuff. And so we manage our expectations

468
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 6: with the understanding that this will happen and it's a

469
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 6: process and going to learn together, then it will happen.

470
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 6: So for example, with like your son and the laundry,

471
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 6: instead of saying, okay, you're gonna notice your laundry and

472
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 6: go right like we need to be able to kind

473
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 6: of like link ons with him and say let me

474
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 6: show you. So let's go and see your laundry baskets.

475
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 6: When your laundry basket gets like this, bole, that's about

476
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 6: the time when you're gonna want to put it in

477
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 6: the washing machine. This is how you put it in

478
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 6: the washing machine. This is how you put the soap in.

479
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 6: This is how you manage the buttons or whatever. The

480
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 6: what am I trying to think of, Like the.

481
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 5: Setting, This is how you do the settings.

482
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 6: It will normally wash for this much time. So if

483
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 6: you have a game that you need to have a

484
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 6: clean soccer jersey for or whatever, you can't put the

485
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 6: start the wash thirty minutes before because it won't be

486
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 6: ready in time. Again, these are things that like we

487
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 6: are still no more kids know. They don't know because

488
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 6: we've been the one doing it. So you say I

489
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 6: would start it the day before or in the morning.

490
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 6: Let's figure out a time together right now so we

491
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 6: can set them up for success. When is going to

492
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 6: be the best time to do that, And then we

493
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 6: can give them small reminders, small encouragement, especially in the beginning,

494
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 6: with the understanding that there's still just learning. So you

495
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 6: could be like, hey, have you noticed your laundry for today,

496
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 6: yet instead of saying, did you do your laundry? Is

497
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 6: your soccer jersey queen? Have you gone and noticed where

498
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 6: your laundry tamper is at? Or like, oh, just as

499
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 6: a reminder tomorrow you have your games, have you noticed

500
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 6: whether or not you have a clean shirt?

501
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 5: And then what do you need to do after that?

502
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 6: So you're like kind of giving them hints so they

503
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 6: are able to fill in the blank and take some

504
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 6: of that ownership and responsibility slowly over time.

505
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: With the hopes that ultimately they'll see the game on

506
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 3: the calendar be able to absolutely.

507
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 6: But it's just like lifting weights. And I think especially

508
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 6: with older kids, we think will like this is like

509
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 6: a fifteen year old kid like he should be This

510
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 6: is why I hear from parents of teens especially all

511
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 6: the time here, she should be able to do this,

512
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 6: and when we approach her from gop face instead of

513
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 6: they are learning, they don't know and they're trying their best,

514
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 6: like just assuming the best, whether or not they should

515
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 6: be able to do it, quote unquote, it's kind of irrelevant.

516
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 6: We're teaching them and we're just going to start from

517
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 6: square one. So just like I said, lifting weights, Like,

518
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 6: just because I'm a thirty year old not thirty, I'm

519
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 6: almost forty.

520
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: We can rock down.

521
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm almost forty.

522
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 6: Because I'm a forty year old woman, Should I be

523
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 6: able to lift fifty pound weights and do like, you know,

524
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 6: three sets of twenty right off the bat.

525
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 5: I don't know, but probably not if.

526
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 7: I'm not used to doing it.

527
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 6: So I'm going to start with the fight weight and

528
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 6: I'm going to lift those five pound weights for a while,

529
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 6: and then I'm going to gradually, as my muscles grow,

530
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 6: my capabilities grow, I'm going to like increase the weight.

531
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 6: So start small, keep your expectations in check, because again,

532
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 6: that's about us, it's not about them, and slowly, over

533
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 6: time teach them.

534
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 3: I love it. We're going to take another quick break

535
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: and then we're going to talk about two very different

536
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 3: age groups, toddlers and adults. All right, we are back,

537
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 3: and I was very impressed looking at your stuff that

538
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: this isn't just about teens. This is about little kids,

539
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 3: and how when you start doing these lessons early you

540
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 3: can achieve some really impressive noticing and actual helping in

541
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: really young ones and lass of where our listeners are

542
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 3: in those stages so can you talk a little bit

543
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: about how these tactics apply to toddlers and preschoolers.

544
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 6: Totally, Littles are so fun because they're so eager to please,

545
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 6: and it's the stage in life where all of this

546
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 6: can feel like a gain to them and parents, especially

547
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 6: like if John was like eighteen months old, Like I

548
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 6: had somebody DM me yesterday and she was like my

549
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 6: eighteen month old and not unloads MPs all the garbages

550
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 6: in our house.

551
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 5: Now an eighteen.

552
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 6: Month old and I don't have to tell them to

553
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 6: do it. The other day, I just saw them dragging

554
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 6: a garbage out to the garbage can, just all.

555
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 5: On their own.

556
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 6: So one of the ways that we teach younger kids,

557
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 6: especially the concept of noticing, because they might not know

558
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 6: what the word noticing means, is you can say, hey,

559
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 6: I want to teach you the fun thing, and we're

560
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 6: going to go clean up the playrooms, but we're going

561
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 6: to do it in a little bit of a different way.

562
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 6: We're going to notice what needs to be cleaned up,

563
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 6: and I'm going to see if you can notice what

564
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 6: to be cleaned up without me telling you. Now, noticing

565
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 6: is just a special way of saying, see So we're

566
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 6: going to take our noticing goggles and I just like

567
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 6: cut my hands and put them over my eyes like

568
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 6: glasses or goggles, and we're gonna look with our special

569
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 6: noticing goggles on together, and we're going to see what

570
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 6: needs to be put away. And if you notice something,

571
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 6: you can yell notice and run and grab and put

572
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 6: it away, or you can beep like a robot, like

573
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 6: a metal detector like baby ba baby, and then go

574
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 6: and put it away. So we're going to start by

575
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 6: looking at the floor. Is there anything you're noticing with

576
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 6: your noticing goggles put away on this floor? Oh, I'm

577
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 6: noticing that those blocks need to be put in the

578
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 6: block box. Let's go notice those blocks and put away.

579
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 6: So we're just using the word again and again and

580
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 6: again instead of like, let's go put the blocks away,

581
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 6: like you notice, you notice those blocks needed to be

582
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 6: put away, Now let's go do it. And then oh okay,

583
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 6: now sometimes we need to look a little bit higher.

584
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 7: Than the floor.

585
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 6: Let's look at the show, or let's look on the couch.

586
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 6: Is there anything on the couch that isn't where it

587
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 6: should be. Let's keep looking with our noticing goggles. So

588
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 6: that's a really really simple way to just teach the

589
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 6: concept of noticing to little and then we can start

590
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 6: talking about let's go in another realm of the house

591
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 6: and see what things are to notice, or as you're

592
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 6: doing things in the kitchen, just narrating what you're doing

593
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 6: and what you're noticing, so you can start to make

594
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 6: what is then previously invisible visible to them. And it's

595
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 6: going to sound like you're a little bit crazy at first,

596
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 6: and that's okay, but you're just helping them see by

597
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 6: verbalizing your thought process. So if you're doing like after dinner,

598
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 6: cleenus like, hey, let's do some noticing together to reset

599
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 6: this kitchen. Okay, I'm noticing that there's plates that are out,

600
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 6: so I'm going to take the place and put them

601
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 6: in the sync. I'm noticing that the milk jug is out.

602
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 6: I'm going to put the milk jug back in the fridge.

603
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 6: I'm noticing that there's crumbs all over the counters. Let

604
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 6: me show you this fun way where you could kind

605
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 6: of use your hand along the counter to free them,

606
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 6: and then when we have the crowmbs, we're going to

607
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 6: go put them in the garbage can. So really taking

608
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 6: it step by step, breaking it down for them and

609
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 6: just saying come do this with me and showing them

610
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 6: the process instead of giving them as.

611
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 5: Silence and saying you do this, you do this, you

612
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 5: do this.

613
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 6: You're really giving them the opportunity to say, this is

614
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 6: how you see what needs to happen for yourself, because

615
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 6: this is how I'm seeing for yourself. It's not magic,

616
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 6: it's not rocket science, but we do need to kind

617
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 6: of pull back the curtain in our brain so kids

618
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 6: can start to understand all of the thought process that

619
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 6: happens behind the noticing, love.

620
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: It, and love that you are making that work even

621
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: with toddlers, And I like the gamification idea because they're

622
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: probably more likely to respond to that if there's an

623
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: element of fun, because we all know the eighteen month

624
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: olds do what eighteen month olds want, and there's not

625
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: a lot of way to convince them, but if you

626
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: make it enticing enough and make it fun enough, and

627
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: that would be a great way to get them to

628
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: make it a have it. So that's awesome. We're going

629
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 3: to go to the other end of the spectrum because

630
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 3: a lot of your methods do kind of apply to kids.

631
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: But then there is the partner question, and I'm not, like,

632
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 3: you know, specifically speaking about my partner, even though he

633
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: did ask me to make a slow cooker meal at

634
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: two pm that required no, I'm just kidding. He really

635
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 3: meant well, and we're going to make it this weekend.

636
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 3: So it was a great idea. But how do you

637
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: help partners who might have some asymmetry, let's say, in

638
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: the noticing asymmetry?

639
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 6: I like that, Okay, So first we're going to understand

640
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 6: the teaching our kids how to notice, and the relationship

641
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 6: we have with the process there with them with children

642
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 6: is entirely separate and different from teaching an adult partner

643
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 6: to notice. I think also, too, it's important to validate

644
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 6: the rage and just the inherent and fairness that comes

645
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 6: with the fact that we are the ones who are

646
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 6: doing all the noticing. And then also simultaneously we have

647
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 6: to supposedly teach adult men how to do this as well. Like,

648
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 6: there's an element of resentment there, and I think it's okay.

649
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 6: Not I think I know it's okay to feel well, however,

650
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 6: you need to feel about that, Like you don't need

651
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 6: to like swelter your rage about that because it sucks.

652
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 6: So teaching adults is entirely different from teaching kids, and

653
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 6: for me, it looked like having hard conversations with my

654
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 6: partner and having those conversations a lot, and having check

655
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 6: in and having him watch other creator's content on Instagram

656
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 6: that talks specifically to the adult side of this. So

657
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 6: it wasn't all on me to be the educator. So

658
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 6: he could take initiative and practice take the initiative for

659
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 6: himself of watching these creators content. So he put like,

660
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 6: for example, a reminder on his phone every day. I

661
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 6: was like, every day at two pm, I need to

662
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 6: go to this account, in this account and watch their

663
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 6: content for the day.

664
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 5: So I can. So it's like they don't know what they.

665
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 6: Don't know, and they have been raised in the exact

666
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 6: same patriarchal society that we have been raised in, and

667
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 6: so there it takes time to start having an input

668
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 6: of different information so they can start having an awareness

669
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 6: and understanding. So that was one way that he took

670
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 6: the initiative to educate himself over.

671
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 7: A long period of time.

672
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 6: He also took the initiative to put reminders on his phone.

673
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 5: To have a weekly checking with me.

674
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 6: So it wasn't on me to be like, Hey, it's

675
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 6: Wednesday at seven, could we talk and just kind of

676
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 6: see like where the progress has been, where we still

677
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 6: need to do some improvement or work on it. So

678
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: he took the initiative to say to approach me and say, hey, Wednesday,

679
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 6: se let's talk about it.

680
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 5: What am I doing well?

681
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 6: What can still be improved?

682
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 5: And then really really.

683
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 6: Another key piece was focusing on the fact that when

684
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 6: I came to him, one of his biggest defenses was

685
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 6: I feel like you're saying I'm not good enough. And

686
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 6: so that was something that we really had to talk about.

687
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 6: And again I had to say, no, no, no, don't

688
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 6: go there, don't do that. That is not what I

689
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 6: am saying. I am not saying you're not good enough.

690
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 6: I am saying there are skills that you do not

691
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 6: currently have that in some ways no fault of your own,

692
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 6: because you have been raised in the exact same way

693
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 6: I have been raised, but on this opposite end of

694
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 6: the spectrum. So like, we are in this together. The

695
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 6: enemy is not you. This is not me versus you.

696
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 6: The enemy is the patriarchal messages and societal gender based

697
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 6: expectations that we have been given. And together we are

698
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 6: going to fight this and like the deeply rooted stuff

699
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 6: and we're going to unroot it together, and this is

700
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 6: how we're going to do it, me and you together,

701
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 6: So really approaching it from that kind of like team based,

702
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 6: arm in arm again saying of like we got this,

703
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 6: so it doesn't have to always go to I'm not

704
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: enough for you, I'm not good enough I like, no

705
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 6: matter how hard I tried it like no, no, no, nope,

706
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 6: we're not doing that.

707
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 5: We're not doing that. Member.

708
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 6: This is me and you against this other thing. And

709
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, like, I hate that

710
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 6: this even has to be said. But if your partner,

711
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 6: like we are talking about your quality of life here,

712
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 6: and not having an equitable partnership deeply, deeply, deeply negatively

713
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 6: impacts your quality of life. And if your partner does

714
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 6: not care about your quality of life enough to educate

715
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 6: himself enough to step up enough to even try, like

716
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 6: we're not again, we're not going for perfection. We're just

717
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 6: going for good, safe efforts. If he doesn't even care

718
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 6: enough about that to try them, Like, there's deeper rooted

719
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 6: problems that need to be addressed that go past just

720
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 6: the division of domestic labor.

721
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: Awesome. I think so many valuable takeaways there and yeah,

722
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: just powerful stuff. I think that you need to have

723
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 3: another course. Hopefully that one's coming.

724
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 6: Maybe we are, We're working on it.

725
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 3: That is awesome. Do you in the meantime, and I

726
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 3: know we have to wrap things up, but do you

727
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 3: have any creators or authors like the one that came

728
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 3: to mind first was maybe like Eve Rodsky, the author

729
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 3: of fair Play, who we've had as a guest on

730
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: our show as well. Are there others that like you've

731
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: directed people too, or that your husband was pulling up

732
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: on Instagram?

733
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:36,959
Speaker 5: Yes?

734
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 6: Okay, so three right off the bat page Colonnel. Her

735
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 6: account is she is a page turner. She talks a

736
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 6: lot about this, especially in regards to working mom.

737
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 5: I would also say, Zach.

738
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 6: I'm trying to get his exact handle here, Zach Watson.

739
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 6: His account is real Zach Think Share, and he talks

740
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 6: about it from a man's perspective. He calls himself a

741
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 6: recovering man child and his videos are awesome and is

742
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 6: really really informative coming from like again, the man's perspective

743
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 6: side of things. And then another one is Laura Danger

744
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 6: and her handle is I think it's just Laura Danger.

745
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 7: Hold on, let me see.

746
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 6: Oh it's not word. Her handle is that darn chat.

747
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 6: And she talked a lot about mental load, invisible labor,

748
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,280
Speaker 6: and how it shows up in a lot of different ways,

749
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 6: like in our society, in our world, and challenging different

750
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 6: assumptions that we have and that we've all grown up with,

751
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 6: and how these very very small scenes end up actually

752
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 6: being big scenes. So again, it's all different sides of it.

753
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 6: Their content is really short, really bite sized, really manageable,

754
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 6: and that's why I found it helpful for him to

755
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 6: just consume just a few minutes every day from a

756
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 6: few different voices, so it wasn't all on me to

757
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 6: do the massive mental and emotional labor of explaining this all.

758
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 3: Now awesome, I love that. Well, do you have a

759
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: love of the week for us? Sam? I guess I

760
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 3: can always start, just because I'd like to give our

761
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: guests a minute to kind of like think of what

762
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 3: you're going to come up with. So I'm going to

763
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 3: be like super basic and just say that, like this

764
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: time of year, it's not fall at all, and therefore

765
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: I want to bake all the fall things. So I

766
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: made sweet potato muffins, and it was like, made me

767
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: so happy because I can. I live in Florida, so

768
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, I can pretend it's not disgusting out and

769
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 3: then we have some sort of seasonality and it made

770
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: me so happy. So sweet potato muffins for the wind.

771
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 5: I love that.

772
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 6: I would think mine would be. We have a lot

773
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 6: of beautiful bike trails around where we live, and normally

774
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 6: I like to do bike rides in the evening, but

775
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 6: now that it's cooling down just a little bit, I

776
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 6: can go and do a quick bike right during the

777
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 6: day in the sunshine, and it is just like life giving.

778
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 5: I love riding my bike.

779
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 3: I love it. I won't take it as you've rubbing

780
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: it in And I'm just kidding. We have no fall.

781
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: I'm totally kidding. Tell our listeners where they can find you,

782
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 3: including maybe some upcoming projects you've hinted that, but also

783
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 3: where they can get their hands on this audio course

784
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 3: that everybody is raving about.

785
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely so.

786
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 6: I'm on Instagram at sam kelly Underscore World. On there

787
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 6: you can find the links in my bio. You can

788
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 6: get a free guide which will give you the basic

789
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 6: structure of how to do this talks about, like we said,

790
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 6: the Big Three, how to get your kids to notice,

791
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 6: So I would hop on that Big Guy three Big

792
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 6: Guy Free guide in the link in my bio. There

793
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 6: is also a weight list. I open the course once

794
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 6: a quarter. We just barely close it for enrollment, so

795
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 6: it will be opening again in November. If you want

796
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 6: to hop on the weight list and link in my bio,

797
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 6: that's where you're going to get a special exclusive discount

798
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 6: when it opens. You will also get first access and

799
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 6: first to know.

800
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 7: When it opens. And no, my and I am also.

801
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 6: Working on a book, so we're finishing up the book

802
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 6: proposal right now and then we're going to be submitting

803
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 6: it to publishers. That is a huge long project though,

804
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 6: so we're looking at like twenty twenty seven, but that's

805
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 6: something that's in the works as well.

806
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: Awesome, Well congrats Sam. I think you struck a chord

807
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: here and I think our listeners are going to love this,

808
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 3: so we so appreciate you coming on.

809
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me.

810
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 2: Well we are back, Sarah. I was interviewing Sam Kelly

811
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: about how to create little cycle breakers, the kids who

812
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: notice what needs to be done around the house and

813
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: help out with it. So lots of great tips there.

814
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: This week's listener question comes from someone who wants to

815
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: talk about doing fun things with teens. So, how do

816
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: you deal with teens not wanting to do a bunch

817
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: of stuff with their families? Are generally spending less time

818
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: with us because they're so busy with school and activities.

819
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: Obviously it's great for kids to be involved with things.

820
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: This listener reports that she does plan trips and a

821
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: couple of family outings on occasion, but overall, the loss

822
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: of time with them is hard, along with the idea

823
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: that they won't be living at home much longer. So

824
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: what our way is to spend time with big kids

825
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 2: that they will actually go for?

826
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: Sarah?

827
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, well, first, I just think it's important to

828
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: acknowledge that this is very much normal. It is not

829
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 3: an indicator that your family dynamics are bad or that

830
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 3: you're doing the wrong thing. Like at a certain point,

831
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: many teens are going to be attracted more to things

832
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 3: in like the friend and peer sphere and less excited

833
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: about doing things with family. Of course, there's exceptions, but

834
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 3: that's like in the books I've read so far, I'm

835
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: like kind of conditioned to expect that, and I think

836
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 3: not taking things personally is probably part of what needs

837
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 3: to happen, and then savoring the family time when it

838
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 3: does happen. I think family trips are awesome for this because,

839
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: I mean, if everyone's flown to Montana together, you've got

840
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: a captive audience for family activities. But also making sure

841
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 3: that those trips are things that your kids are excited about.

842
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: And then I also feel like you can pay attention

843
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: to times you have with kids that aren't necessarily an activity,

844
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: but it can still add up to a lot of time.

845
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 3: Time in the car. For example, you can have some

846
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: great conversations, you can listen to their music, you can

847
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 3: talk about what's going on, or even like if they

848
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 3: have a sports event and you end up having to

849
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: accompany them to a tournament that's far away, Like that's

850
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 3: a lot of quality time. It might not be the

851
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: quote together in as family outing that you plan when

852
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: everybody was little, but it absolutely still counts and you know,

853
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: should be savored and appreciated for what it is.

854
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think doing one on one time

855
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: for things that kid wants to do are great. So trips, excursions, concerts,

856
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: just runs to Starbucks or whatever their treat is. Like,

857
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: you know, if they love going to Starbucks, then probably

858
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: they're willing to go with mom to Starbucks, especially if

859
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: you're paying, So that is something you can do. Also,

860
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: just trying to linger when you can, Like if a

861
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: kid is talking to you at dinner, much as we

862
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: want everyone to do the dishes, you don't have to

863
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: get up and do it right. Then you can sit

864
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: there and just sit for a while and let the

865
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 2: conversation keep going and get to clearing the table a

866
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: little bit later, because that can all possibly wait. So

867
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: just kind of noticing when there is a moment of

868
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: connection and then letting it keep going for a reasonable

869
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: amount of time can be good. But yeah, I think

870
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with kids wanting independence. I think there's

871
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: actually been some interesting shifts of kids having less independence

872
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: these days, and I don't know if that's all a

873
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: great thing. I mean, it's nice that kids are probably

874
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: closer to their parents now than they were in past generations,

875
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: but at some point we all do need to be

876
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 2: our own, independent adult people. So I was quite happy

877
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: that my four older kids this summer all got at

878
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: least a week away from home to kind of experience

879
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: their life apart from us and sort of get to

880
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: know themselves in a situation that is not at home.

881
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: I think that's good for them.

882
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 2: But of course I love spending time with them when

883
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: I can as well, So we've been doing a lot

884
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: of things when we can or Olivia Roduno concerts, Starbucks trips. Yeah,

885
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: one thing I would say, I heard this step. I

886
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: haven't really tried this yet, but if your kid has

887
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: a tendency to just put their headphones on when they're

888
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: in the car, like put their AirPods in their ear

889
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: and listen to their music, suggest that they be the

890
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: DJ for the car and that you all listen to

891
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: whatever it is that they would be listening into their headphones. Now,

892
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: if it turns out that what they're listening to is

893
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 2: like horrible, misogynistic, terrible violent stuff, then obviously you have

894
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: to k have a conversation about that. And you're like,

895
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: I would prefer you'd be not listening to that, and

896
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: we're definitely not listening to this as a group. But

897
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: that's probably a conversation that should be had in general

898
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: as well. But as long as their music is not

899
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: so terrible, probably they could be the DJ for the

900
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: car and that would at least get the AirPods out

901
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: and bring the possibility of spending the moment together in

902
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: the car.

903
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 3: Our morning djit we do that exact same thing. So

904
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 3: I actually usually hand the kids the phone and they'll

905
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: like pick the next song and they like to alternate

906
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 3: and the mixes we have. Cameron's into the song the

907
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: Neil Diamond classic Sweet Caroline, which he sings.

908
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: Well, that's fun to sing a lot like Exact.

909
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 3: Boy Party except an Opti hire. Then it will be

910
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: sometime it's like the funniest thing I've ever heard, and

911
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 3: then Genevieve's like Barbie soundtrack. Then Annabel is playing her

912
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: supreen and carpet. I mean it is like just the

913
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: funniest like mix. There's a lot of laughter and it's

914
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: a lot of fun.

915
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, well that sounds great.

916
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 1: That sounds great.

917
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: Good way to get older kids involved and I'll be

918
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: experiencing it together.

919
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: Well, this has been best of both worlds.

920
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week with more and making work

921
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: and life fit together.

922
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

923
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the underscore shoebox on Instagram.

924
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

925
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

926
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: join us next time for more on making work and

927
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: life work together