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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent coverage.

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Speaker 3: That is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today. We have

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Speaker 2: an extra amazing show. Chrystal balls back from her honeymoon

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Speaker 2: after a beautiful wedding.

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Speaker 3: It's great to see Crystal.

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Speaker 1: It is nice to be back. I enjoyed the time off.

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Speaker 1: It's always good to be back in the chair. So indeed,

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Speaker 1: we do have a good show. I had to work

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Speaker 1: that in there was people would be very disappointed in

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Speaker 1: me for show back. So lots of things going on

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Speaker 1: to catch up on. First of all, round the Santis

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Speaker 1: looks set to launch any moment, and he kind of

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Speaker 1: got a little one up on Trump in iOS. That

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Speaker 1: will tell you about that first good news cycle for

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Speaker 1: him for a while.

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Speaker 4: I would say so we'll break that down.

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Speaker 1: Also, elon deciding to allow censorship of some content in

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Speaker 1: Turkey ahead of a critical election. We also have some

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Speaker 1: results from that election, so we'll tell you about that

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Speaker 1: new reporting mainstream media a little bit late to the game,

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Speaker 1: but adding on to what Sagar and I had already

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Speaker 1: previously reported from those leaked documents about how far Zelenski

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Speaker 1: is willing to go and the sort of audacious attacks

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Speaker 1: that he wanted to engage in but was short the

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Speaker 1: long range missiles that we had failed to provide them.

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Speaker 1: Now the UK is providing him with those long range missiles,

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Speaker 1: and we are already seeing some potential fallout from all

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Speaker 1: of that. We've also got a new report about just

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Speaker 1: how far back the problems with Diane Feinstein go and

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Speaker 1: just how widespread the knowledge of this was on Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill and among journalists. I mean, you really can't make

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Speaker 1: it up. You've got John Stewart weighing in on the

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Speaker 1: big Trump town hall controversy, the debate, big piece that

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Speaker 1: I missed last week, So I'm excited to talk about

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Speaker 1: that as well.

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Speaker 4: So lots to get to this.

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Speaker 1: Morning, but before we do any of that, we are

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Speaker 1: very very excited because we are getting super close to

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Speaker 1: having a new set in here.

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Speaker 2: That's right, everybody, the set is officially in production fabrication.

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Speaker 3: We have seen the warehouse photos. We are clearing out

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Speaker 3: space here.

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Speaker 2: We've got timelines and work contracts and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: So if you guys can help us out with the

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Speaker 2: production of that new set, we deeply appreciate it. The

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Speaker 2: biggest expense ever in the history of Breaking Points, and

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Speaker 2: all of you really are a part of it. So

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Speaker 2: as we said, any monthly, yearly or lifetime members who

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Speaker 2: sign up are especially helping us in our financial hour

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited to debut all of it

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Speaker 2: to you. It really is like a level up in

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Speaker 2: terms of what we're going to be able to offer

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Speaker 2: everyone for the incoming twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that is right, very excited about all of that.

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Speaker 2: So Breaking Points dot com, if you are able, let's

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Speaker 2: start speaking of that twenty twenty four election and all

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Speaker 2: the fun plans not only in the studio that we've

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Speaker 2: been cooking up. I think you guys are really going

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Speaker 2: to enjoy some of the things that we're going to

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Speaker 2: be able to offer you. Is Ron DeSantis and DeSantis

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Speaker 2: for the first time in a long time, as you

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Speaker 2: alluded to, had a pretty good news cycle for himself

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Speaker 2: in Iowa. He visited Iowa officially under not a pretense

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Speaker 2: of running for president, but it's pretty obvious what exactly

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Speaker 2: is going on here, and he had especially some good

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Speaker 2: moments on the trail where he was able to speak

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Speaker 2: to multiple events and even show up Trump in the

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Speaker 2: face of a cancelation.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to what he said.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much, Congressman, thank you for

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Speaker 5: doing such a great job. As some Republicans get into

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Speaker 5: office and they basically act like potted plants. They don't

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Speaker 5: want to lead, They worry about what the media is

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Speaker 5: going to say about They just kind of hope to

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Speaker 5: not have to make decisions until something they're actually forced

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Speaker 5: to do it. I said, that's not what we're doing

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Speaker 5: in Florida. We're going on offense in the state of Florida.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to get out in front of issues. I'm

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Speaker 5: going to be leading on this show. Use I don't

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Speaker 5: care what the left says, I don't care what media says.

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Speaker 5: We are going to deliver big victories. And I'll tell

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Speaker 5: you when you're on offense. It's hard for them to

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Speaker 5: keep up with you because they don't know what we're

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Speaker 5: going to do next.

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Speaker 2: That is the core of the DeSantis pitch is that

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Speaker 2: Trump is about drama, and I'm all about offense. I'm

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Speaker 2: all about substance, I'm all about action. Now, obviously, I've

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Speaker 2: been skeptical of that because you know, unfortunately, I don't

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Speaker 2: think a lot of Republican base actually wants action offense,

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Speaker 2: and they'd like the drama. That said, there are people

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Speaker 2: out there who do like it, and he did get

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Speaker 2: a standing ovation and multiple of these events. But really

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Speaker 2: the big show up of Trump in Iowa, let's put

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Speaker 2: this up there on the screen, is that after President

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Speaker 2: Trump actually canceled a rally in Des Moines citing quote

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Speaker 2: possible dangerous weather, which by the way, did not materialize,

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Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis actually added an unscheduled stop in the very

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Speaker 2: area that Trump had been scheduled to speak. Not only

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Speaker 2: did he have a pit stop by basically embarrassing the

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Speaker 2: former president by saying, I'm willing to come up whenever

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Speaker 2: you said that you were going to, but then you

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Speaker 2: bail on this event, but he had spoken to two

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Speaker 2: other events in Iowa while he was there, and this

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Speaker 2: is just very classic retail politics, Crystal. This is one

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Speaker 2: of those where and part of why I actually am

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Speaker 2: sad to lose Iowa from the Democratic side, because Barack

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Speaker 2: Obama would need to never be present without it. You know,

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Speaker 2: he visited what is it all ninety nine counties in

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Speaker 2: Iowa and he spent basically a year on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Iowa is what made him Dysantis is offering his playbook

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Speaker 2: where he sees his path to a nomination, if possible

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Speaker 2: at all, through victories in the early states.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget that Trump did not win Iowa.

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Speaker 2: He only got third place to Marco Arrubio and to

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Speaker 2: Ted Cruz before he eventually won the New Hampshire primary.

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Speaker 2: So if DeSantis could have a victory in the Iowa

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Speaker 2: CAUCUSUS over Trump, it would obviously just be a titanic

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Speaker 2: media event. And more importantly, I think it would give

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Speaker 2: permission to other Republicans to vote for him because they're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe he actually could win this thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, we've been skeptical of Ron DeSantis for

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Speaker 1: a long time when he was riding high when some

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Speaker 1: of the poles showed him beating Trump, because we always

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Speaker 1: had this question mark of okay, but how's he going

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Speaker 1: to handle the national spotlight? Okay, what is his actual

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Speaker 1: case against Trump? And we also had seen with the

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Speaker 1: mar A Lago raid, the way that when Trump is

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Speaker 1: under fire from the justice system or the liberal media

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Speaker 1: or anyone else, the way the base always rallies back

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Speaker 1: to him. So we've long been skeptical. But I think

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Speaker 1: if you're going to make the best case that you

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Speaker 1: can for rond DeSantis, you would say, Okay, he's placing

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Speaker 1: a bet on people. They may still like Trump, but

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Speaker 1: they are kind of tired of the chaos and they're

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Speaker 1: ready to move on. That's the bet that he's placing.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that I think he has in his

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Speaker 1: corner right now is, you know, the media doesn't really

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Speaker 1: want the primary to be over before it's ever begun began,

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Speaker 1: because that's less interesting for them. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: they took this little one upsmanship that he was able

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Speaker 1: to have in Iowa and turned it into a whole

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Speaker 1: national story, I think indicates that they do want to

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Speaker 1: kind of root for him in a way, just so

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Speaker 1: that they have an interesting, theoretically competitive primary on the

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Speaker 1: Republican side to cover since they've ared decided that they're

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Speaker 1: going to just pretend the Democratic primaries not interesting for

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Speaker 1: them at all. So he's got that going for him.

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Speaker 1: And in a way, his path that he has mapped

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Speaker 1: out in his mind and that consultants are leaking to

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Speaker 1: the press now, is kind of similar to the Barack

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Speaker 1: Obama bet, which is that, Okay, sure, the polls are

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Speaker 1: what they are before people start voting, but if we

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Speaker 1: can show some strength in these early states, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, we think some of these early states are

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Speaker 1: particularly good for us, then.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that flips things.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that changes the whole game, and we get a

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Speaker 1: head full of esteem. These other contenders, the Nikki Hales,

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Speaker 1: the Tim Scott's, the Whoever's, they drop out, they coll us,

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Speaker 1: and that's our shot. And you can see he's placing

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Speaker 1: a big bet on that. Go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: up on the screen from Politico. He's rolling out a

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Speaker 1: major slate of Iowa endorsements, you know, a huge roster here,

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Speaker 1: including more than half a dozen party leaders, state Senate President,

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Speaker 1: Senate Majority Whip, Assistant House majority Leader, House majority Leader,

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Speaker 1: House speaker, pro tempore is that how you say it?

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Speaker 1: Pro tempore, pro tempore pro tempoar. There we go House majority, Whip,

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Speaker 1: assistant leader, etcetera, etc. So very impressive state level roster.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing I would say is, while DeSantis

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Speaker 1: getting one over on Trump in this, you know one,

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Speaker 1: Trump cancels the rally and Desanta shows up, is this

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Speaker 1: going to move the polls from a national perspective. No,

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Speaker 1: But Iowa is different and people there locally do pay

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Speaker 1: attention to these sorts of things. Retail politics and the

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Speaker 1: grassroots do matter. So if he's able to show more

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Speaker 1: dexterity there and more attention to the state, yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: that does pay off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at the end of the day, like

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Speaker 2: these types of endorsements and all that were dismissed very

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Speaker 2: early on by the Hillary campaign around Obama and they

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Speaker 2: didn't end up mattering.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of people also forget this.

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Speaker 2: Ted Cruz poured an enormous amount of resources into Iowa.

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Speaker 2: Jeff Row, his campaign manager, who actually is now currently

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Speaker 2: running the Never Back Down superpack backing Ron DeSantis before

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Speaker 2: that ran the Glenn Youngkin campaign, is famously established like

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Speaker 2: cruise camps, and poured all of this data and all

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Speaker 2: of this into winning the Iowa caucuses. Is still is

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Speaker 2: probably the coude Gras of the entire Ted Crow Cruz

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Speaker 2: campaign from twenty sixteen. Well, he's got Iowa veterans in

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Speaker 2: his camp who are backing him. They know how to

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Speaker 2: play this game. Iowen famously, especially Republican voters there. They

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Speaker 2: are not the mean Republican voter, as evidenced by the

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Speaker 2: fact that they voted for Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio,

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Speaker 2: whereas in most of the other primaries, Trump not only won,

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Speaker 2: but he won big. So I think that, you know,

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Speaker 2: given the very given the unique dynamics of the state,

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Speaker 2: given the fact that they really do like to take

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Speaker 2: their time, like get to know their politicians, if Trump

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Speaker 2: does take them for granted, which it's very possible that

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Speaker 2: he certainly could. If Desanta is going to go all

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Speaker 2: in on the state, he could face a problem. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, what did I just say, he lost

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Speaker 2: Iowa the first time, It just didn't matter. Yeah, he

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Speaker 2: still won New Hampshire, and he still won Super Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: and he became the nominee very quickly after.

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Speaker 4: Right, Well, that's the difference.

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Speaker 1: Is the reason it worked out for Barack Obama is

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Speaker 1: very specific to the Democratic side, which is that you

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Speaker 1: had a lot of black voters in South Carolina who

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Speaker 1: wanted to be with him but didn't think that he

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Speaker 1: had the you know, the ability to overcome the Clinton machine.

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Speaker 1: And once he demonstrated like, look, I can get these

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Speaker 1: white folks in Iowa to vote for me, then poles

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Speaker 1: flipped dramatically, specifically among black voters in South Carolina. There

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Speaker 1: are very few black voters that vote in the Republican primaries,

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Speaker 1: and there just aren't that There isn't that same dynamic

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Speaker 1: that's obvious to see, at least in terms of the

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Speaker 1: Republican primary. So that's why, you know, I continue to

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Speaker 1: be skeptical here. But it was definitely a good, much

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Speaker 1: better news cycle for him. He was certainly well received

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Speaker 1: in the state of Iowa. I don't think there's any

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Speaker 1: doubt that the Republican base overall has a lot of

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Speaker 1: positive feelings towards him.

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Speaker 4: They like him.

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Speaker 1: If Trump wasn't there, I think he would be, you know,

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Speaker 1: the odds on.

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Speaker 4: Favorite, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: But I still continue to believe that it's not going

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Speaker 1: to be enough to be the Trump alternative without making

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Speaker 1: some sort of affirmative case that really lands with the

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Speaker 1: Republican base against Trump or somehow Trump disappearing from the

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Speaker 1: scene or completely melting down, of which we just see

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Speaker 1: no sign.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's put the last one up there on the screen, please,

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Speaker 2: because what they show here is that they cancel the

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Speaker 2: outdoor a rally in Des Moines. But something that Ron

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Speaker 2: DeSantis actually said on Saturday really is what resonated with

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Speaker 2: a lot of people on the ground. He said that

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Speaker 2: the Republicans must quote reject a culture of losing and

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Speaker 2: embrace a positive vision for the future if they want

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Speaker 2: to win in twenty twenty four. Quote, both Florida and

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Speaker 2: Iowa show strong leadership and a bold agenda can defeat

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Speaker 2: the left in this country. There's no substitute for victory.

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Speaker 2: We must reject the culture of losing that's infected our

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Speaker 2: party in recent years. The time for excuses is over.

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Speaker 2: We've got to demonstrate the courage to lead and the

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Speaker 2: strength to win. Now, look on his merits, I think

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Speaker 2: he's right. I think that's a great pitch for maybe

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Speaker 2: somebody like me, But all the evidence that we have

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Speaker 2: crystal this message basically only really resonates with college educated Republicans,

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Speaker 2: of which there are a lot in Iowa, but of

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Speaker 2: which nationally there are actually not a lot. Whenever it

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Speaker 2: comes to the Republican based, working class voters love Trump.

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Speaker 2: We're working class voters specifically who are new to the

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Speaker 2: Republican Party.

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Speaker 3: Trump Ish style voters especially love Trump.

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Speaker 2: But then the more traditional mitt Romni type Republicans, they

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Speaker 2: like Trump, they have affection for Trump, They're willing to

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Speaker 2: entertain more cannons. But unfortunately for DeSantis and for really

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Speaker 2: anybody who's making their bet on that group, they really

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Speaker 2: just they don't. They're outnumbered almost dramatically by non college

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Speaker 2: educated white voters in the Republican Party. So look, once again,

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Speaker 2: we could be totally wrong. It's very possible that a

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Speaker 2: DeSantis Iowa victory, if it were to materialize, would eventually

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Speaker 2: give people permission in New Hampshire and in South Carolina

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Speaker 2: and in Florida. Actually, Florida will be the real test

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Speaker 2: whether DeSantis can win in his own home state against Trump.

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Speaker 2: That's basically the whole ball game. It's why Marco Rubio

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Speaker 2: dropped out in twenty sixteen. It's why Ted Cruz was

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Speaker 2: able to stay in the race because he did win

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Speaker 2: the Texas primary. It's why John Kasick was able to

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Speaker 2: win the Ohio primary.

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Speaker 3: You have a case for doing that.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of it is also a road to

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Speaker 2: Florida from where it all starts in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: DeSantis is making an intellectual case to the Republican base.

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Speaker 1: He bet on I'm going to have this you know,

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Speaker 1: policy roll out. That's why he wanted to wait until

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Speaker 1: after the Florida legislative session was finished before he jumped

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Speaker 1: into the presidential race. And that lands with some slice

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Speaker 1: of the Republican base. There's no doubt about it. The

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Speaker 1: Trump pitch is much more visceral, and today that visceral

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Speaker 1: pitch is winning the day. Will that change over time?

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Speaker 1: I sort of doubt it, because I think the landscape

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Speaker 1: as we move forward is just going to continue to

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Speaker 1: be you know, what's going to happen in the Documents Probe,

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen with the you know, the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Fulton County prob, what's happening with the special Counsel, and

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Speaker 1: all of those things are going to continue to dominate

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Speaker 1: the news. And I think you saw in that CNN

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Speaker 1: town hall, you know the way the base feels about anything,

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Speaker 1: whether it has merit or not, that any sort of

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Speaker 1: attack on Trump as far as the Republican base goes.

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Speaker 1: This is different from the general elector. But in terms

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Speaker 1: of the Republican base, it only makes Trump stronger. So

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Speaker 1: I don't see that dynamic really stopping.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really see it changing or stopping either.

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Speaker 2: But listen, who knows. You know, it could be wrong,

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Speaker 2: and at the very least it'll be interesting. Let's go

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Speaker 2: to the second part here, which is a little bit interesting,

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Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen. This is

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Speaker 2: the actual DeSantis theory of the case from Jonathan martinover

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Speaker 2: at Politico. Why the Desanti's brain trust thinks that it

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Speaker 2: actually can beat Trump. Now, What they effectively say here

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Speaker 2: is they say yes. They say yes, we understand where

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Speaker 2: the poles are going. We understand that this is something

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Speaker 2: which looks like it shouldn't be feasible, but we have

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Speaker 2: extensive internal polling and a gusher of money that they

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Speaker 2: predict will come when DeSantis will enter the race.

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Speaker 3: They point to the fat crystal that DeSantis has.

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Speaker 2: A very very high internal approval rating amongst Republicans.

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Speaker 3: In other words, he's a very high affection rating.

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Speaker 2: They look at the unpopularity for Trump amongst voters that

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Speaker 2: they find in Iowa, in New Hampshire and elsewhere. They

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Speaker 2: find quote twenty four percent of Republicans of an unfavorable

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Speaker 2: view of Republican of Trump, while only fourteen percent of

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Speaker 2: Iowa feel unfavorably towards DeSantis. Perhaps most notable in their

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Speaker 2: dominated caucuses, they say that DeSantis is viewed favorably by

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Speaker 2: nearly eighty percent of who call themselves quote very conservative,

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Speaker 2: and they point to the fact that DeSantis himself, at

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Speaker 2: least on a personal level, doesn't seem to have the

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Speaker 2: level of drama and the level of chaos. He does

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Speaker 2: have a proven record. He genuinely is a winner. I mean,

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Speaker 2: won by almost twenty points in the gubernatorial election. There

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Speaker 2: is zero arguing with that electorally. So really it comes

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Speaker 2: down to Trump has a very very high tail risk.

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Speaker 2: We have high levels of affection, we will have gobs

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Speaker 2: of money by the conservative billionaire class who want to

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Speaker 2: see something, who want to see at least some alternative

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Speaker 2: to Trump, and he's got his legal problems. It's basically

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Speaker 2: a I would say that they estimated as the risk

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Speaker 2: is high enough with Trump that somebody else has to

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Speaker 2: try and be The alternative question is is that are

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Speaker 2: they right or are the odds really on their side?

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Speaker 2: I would say no, like on a probabilistic scale, But

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Speaker 2: reading this, I get it.

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Speaker 3: I get where they're coming from.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the risk is also very high for

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Speaker 2: DeSantis on a personal level of this will humiliate him

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Speaker 2: and basically relegate him to Chris Christy level status if

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Speaker 2: he does lose.

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Speaker 1: That, Yeah, could very well happen. And I have heard

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Speaker 1: people coming on saying, you know what, he should just

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Speaker 1: take a pass, like this is not.

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Speaker 4: Panning out for him.

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Speaker 1: The polls are sliding Trump is like it's becoming increasing Linklear.

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Speaker 4: This is Trump's race to lose. It's like a foregone conclusion.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I have to say, if I was him,

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Speaker 1: I'd probably still take the shot because you just never

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Speaker 1: know what's going to happen in politics. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: enough chaos in the air with these investigations, and Trump

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Speaker 1: is an old man as well. God only knows what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen with him. That if you don't jump now,

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Speaker 1: you do probably miss your best window and your best opportunities.

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Speaker 1: So you know, is he even at a fifty percent

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Speaker 1: chance in my opinion, not even close.

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Speaker 4: But I disagree with people who are saying.

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Speaker 1: Like it's so obvious that he should just stay out altogether,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know that he gets another window of

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Speaker 1: opportunity that is as clear he's riding it as high

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Speaker 1: as that he's ever going to ride right now. So

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Speaker 1: if you don't take the shot now, you're probably going

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Speaker 1: to miss your chance.

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Speaker 4: New York Times has a.

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Speaker 1: Piece that has some of these details that's going to

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Speaker 1: put this up on the screen, also about Iowa and

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Speaker 1: their pitch and their thought of how this could all

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Speaker 1: work out into Santis's favor. They also, though, include some

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Speaker 1: of the downside risk and some of how the wheels

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Speaker 1: have already come off before he's even gotten to the

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Speaker 1: starting line. They say, why we're on DeSantis is limping

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Speaker 1: to the starting line. They describe his central electability pitch

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Speaker 1: as Maga without the mess, but they say that's been

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Speaker 1: badly bruised, and specifically they point to a book tour

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Speaker 1: that was supposed to have introduced him nationally but had

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Speaker 1: a lot of missteps and called into question his readiness

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Speaker 1: for the national stage. They point to his comments on

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Speaker 1: Ukraine and his comments on abortion as causing some turbulence

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Speaker 1: in particular among the donor class, and it really highlights

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Speaker 1: how he has a very difficult coalition to put together

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Speaker 1: here because he's trying to appeal number one, to sort

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Speaker 1: of the most hard right ideological part of the Republican

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Speaker 1: base with things like, you know, really stringent abortion restrictions,

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Speaker 1: and he's also trying to appeal to the more moderate

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Speaker 1: part of the Republican base that is done with Trump.

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Speaker 1: And if you can't put all of those pieces together,

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Speaker 1: you just don't have nearly enough to you know, get

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Speaker 1: over the fifty percent threshold, which is what you will

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Speaker 1: likely need. So it shows just how tricky it is

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Speaker 1: to hold those pieces together.

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Speaker 4: They've got a quote.

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Speaker 1: From a metals magnate who had given Dysanta's fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars last year, who said, I was in the DeSantis camp,

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Speaker 1: but he started opening his mouth and a lot of

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Speaker 1: big donors that his views are not tolerable. This donor

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Speaker 1: sited specifically abortion and Ukraine. There was reports of a

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Speaker 1: couple of big donors who actually took meetings with the

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Speaker 1: Ramaswami Yeah as well. So people are weighing their options

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Speaker 1: now as Ronda Santa's gonna have plenty of money. Yes,

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Speaker 1: But again, I think what this underscores is the inherent

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Speaker 1: tensions in groups of people, the very disparate groups of

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Speaker 1: people that he is trying to put together to build

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Speaker 1: this campaign.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, how are you going to appease Ken Griffin who

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Speaker 2: hates Trump, hates any Trumpian position on our conservative position

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Speaker 2: on abortion, and hates any conservative position on Ukraine, when

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Speaker 2: at the same time you need his money to run

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Speaker 2: because you also need to if you're going to be

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Speaker 2: the Republican nominee win over people who are Trump voters.

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Speaker 3: I just think it's a very very difficult case.

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Speaker 2: And also these donors, as you know and as evidence here,

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Speaker 2: they're the most fickle people on earth. If you don't

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Speaker 2: fet them constantly, then they go to somebody else. And

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Speaker 2: actually this gets to a level of not even retail politics,

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Speaker 2: but internal operational politics, which is DeSantis by all accounts,

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Speaker 2: is bad at I mean, we've covered the stories here

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Speaker 2: about how the guy who sat next to him for

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Speaker 2: several years in the House said literally, quote, he's an

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Speaker 2: a hole because he didn't talk to him. You had

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Speaker 2: other congressmen, you had that one congressman who knew him

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Speaker 2: while he was in Washington, took a meeting with him

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Speaker 2: and then immediately after the meeting endorsed Trump because basically

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Speaker 2: made it known. He's like, yeah, DeSantis was not one

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Speaker 2: of the guys when he was in Congress.

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Speaker 3: He didn't like to hang out with us. He wasn't

438
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: particularly nice to us.

439
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 2: Now he's coming to us and he wants our vote,

440
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 2: and we're like, hey, we remember whereas Trump would call

441
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: me when I was in the hospital.

442
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 3: He called me when I was sick.

443
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,239
Speaker 2: These are, unfortunately, like, this is how politics runs. This

444
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 2: is a game of human beings. And I even saw,

445
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 2: you know, internal some of these stories. They're like Desanti's

446
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 2: a's have acknowledged, like he needs to smile more and

447
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: he needs to call people.

448
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 3: It's like, listen, man.

449
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 2: If you have to be told to call people and

450
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 2: you're if you're Eisenhower and you're one of the most

451
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 2: popular figures in America, that's a different story.

452
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 3: You can learn some of this game.

453
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 2: But when you are the underdog, then you need to

454
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 2: be doing all of this stuff and not just now,

455
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 2: you need to even doing this for twenty years.

456
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 3: That's the Bill Clinton came.

457
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: I think it's telling that he does better with endorsements

458
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: in a state like Iowa, where people don't really know

459
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: him than.

460
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 4: In his home state.

461
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean in Florida, there was a landslide of endorsements

462
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: towards Trump, and like in a really pointed in your face,

463
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: f you kind of way where they were telling the

464
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: press you know this guy. He told me to come

465
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: to his like hurricane press conference, that I was going

466
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: to be there, and when I show up, they're like, nope, sorry,

467
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 1: you can stand in the back. We don't want to

468
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: say anything about you or have you up next.

469
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 4: To the governor, Like what are you thinking with that?

470
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,239
Speaker 3: What do you think?

471
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: And I would also say, I mean that's on him,

472
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 1: that's also on his staff, because that is a bad situation.

473
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: You lose that endorsement, that's embarrassing in your home state.

474
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: He also means to get his facial expressions under control,

475
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: because some of these photos are you know, Howard Dean's

476
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: scream level kind of bad. The bobblehead thing we played

477
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: for you, that was probably the worst. But even out

478
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 1: of this very good news cycle for him coming out

479
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: of Iowa, positive reception or whatever, there are some photos

480
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: that came out of there too, that you're like, oh

481
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: what do you like? What is your face doing right now?

482
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: So any of the things like you can't really retrain.

483
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: I was about to say, people are gonna be like, oh,

484
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: you guys are being petty. No, I mean, listen, we

485
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 2: have decades of politics to understand that all of these things,

486
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: unfortunately end up mattering, sometimes more than a position on Ukraine.

487
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 3: The scream literally took out Howard Dean.

488
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 2: Which is, you know, in retrospect, is insane considering some

489
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 2: of the things he was saying about the Iraq War.

490
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: Maybe those two things were combined. Who knows.

491
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: These are all conspiracies from a long time ago. The

492
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 2: point just is is that with these you know, ridiculous

493
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 2: you know, small charismatic moments in.

494
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 3: Politics, some of those actually can end.

495
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: Up mattering a hell of a lot. Combined with a

496
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 2: mass media that's going to focus on these things.

497
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we will see.

498
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: But Desantas said apparently to launch very very soon.

499
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it'll come soon because the legislative season

500
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: is eventually is up in Florida. All the accounts where

501
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: he wanted to wait until they was done, so he

502
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: had had a bunch of checkmarks on things that he

503
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: was getting done. So the moment it ends, basically he's

504
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: ready to roll all the accounts, say like he's in

505
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: it to I guess to run it, maybe to win it,

506
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: and we'll see.

507
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, let's talk about Elon Musk Twitter and

508
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: the Turkish elections. A lot going on. Am I sick

509
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: of talking about Twitter?

510
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: Yes?

511
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: I am, But they're keeping things that we have to cover.

512
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 3: This is important.

513
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: This is actually incredibly important because it goes to the

514
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: heart of what Elon has claimed he's doing over at Twitter,

515
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: which he says he's a free speech absolutist. He said

516
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: he was buying Twitter, I mean, was sort of forced

517
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: into it ultimately, but buying it to establish it as

518
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: a beacon of free speech. And lo and behold, let's

519
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. So Turkey just had elections.

520
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: We'll give you those results in just a moment. The

521
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: Turkish government mere days before this critical and very close

522
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: election asked Twitter to censor certain content that was unfavorable

523
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: to art one, and Twitter just went ahead and complied.

524
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: They say, in response to legal process to ensure Twitter

525
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: remains available to the people of Turkey. We've taken action

526
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: to restrict access to some content in Turkey today. So

527
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: that's all the information we got. Glacias here highlighting the

528
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: Turkish government ask Twitter to censor its opponents right before

529
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: an election, and Elon must complied. Should generate some interesting

530
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: Twitter files reporting, he snarkily adds, to which Elon responds,

531
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: did your brain.

532
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 4: Fall out of your head?

533
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: The choice is have Twitter throttled in its entirety or

534
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: limit access to some tweets?

535
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 4: Which one do you want? Now?

536
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: These choices are, you know, I guess difficult. You can

537
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: either decide to go with the government censorship and do

538
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: what the incumbent government wants, in effect to impact the

539
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: results of an election, something that Elon Musk and many

540
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: others have been very critical of Twitter under Jack Dorsey,

541
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: engaging with the US government in particular, but other governments

542
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: as well.

543
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: Well.

544
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: Here, Elon, who's supposed to be the beacon of free speech,

545
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: just immediately caves and is extraordinarly defensive about it and

546
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: doesn't even consider the possibility that, Yeah, the principal thing

547
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: to do would be, if that's really your choice, the

548
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: principal thing would be to allow Twitter to be taken

549
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: down rather than just see to the government's wishes. Ken Roth,

550
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: who we've had on the show, said too clever by half.

551
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: Elon Musk just gave away the store. By making clear

552
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: he prioritizes Twitter's presence in a country over the platform's

553
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: free speech principles, He's invited endless censorship demands to gain compliance.

554
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: Governments will just threaten to expel Twitter. So now they

555
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: know what they have to do, they'll just say, hey,

556
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: we'll cut Twitter off, and he will bend to their wishes.

557
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: And then he continued, go ahead and put this next

558
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: piece up on the screen.

559
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 4: He says.

560
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: What makes this even worse is that must try to

561
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: justify his acquiescence to censorship demands by saying people can

562
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: change the law allowing censorship, but must accepted censorship on

563
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: the eve of today's election, making it harder for people

564
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: in Turkey to change the law. So listen, whatever Elon

565
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: Musk is wanting to do with Twitter, and what he's

566
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: wanting to turn it into, and whatever changes he wants

567
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: to make from the Jack Dorsey era, I think we

568
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: can all put to bed the idea that this is

569
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: a committed free speech play. Because between this between censorship

570
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: in India between taking off random journalists that piss them off.

571
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, anyone, I think at this point has to

572
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: acknowledge that whatever is going on here, it is not

573
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: at its core about free speech.

574
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: Well there, the capriciousness of taking journalists you don't like

575
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: off is one thing, but acquiescing to government demands is

576
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: actually a whole other thing.

577
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 3: And once again, I actually think this is a fine.

578
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: Position if you don't bill yourself as a free speech platform.

579
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 2: This is basically the position of YouTube, of Facebook, and

580
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: of Google.

581
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 3: They comply with local law.

582
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 2: In fact, anytime you ask Apple, you're like, hey, why

583
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 2: did you do this thing on behalf of the CCP,

584
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: They're like, listen, we do business in China. If you

585
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: want to do business in China, you got to abide

586
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: by Chinese law. I'm like, okay, I mean I don't

587
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: agree with that necessarily. I think that we should actually

588
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: set standards to make it so that some companies don't

589
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: do that. But at the end of the day, I

590
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: think it's a defensible capitalist position. Yeah, but this was

591
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: not their reason why you say you were going to

592
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: buy And on a principles level, like now he's in

593
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: our world. Quote, by free speech, I simply mean that

594
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: which matches the law. I'm against censorship that goes far

595
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: behind the law. If people want less free speech, they

596
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: will ask the government to pass laws to that effect.

597
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: A that presumes that all governments are democracies. Considering what

598
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: we know about corruption around this world, that sounds pretty ridiculous. Now,

599
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: in some cases, it is true that democratic places like

600
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: India genuinely do push censorship, and they're probably vastly supported

601
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: by the population.

602
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: But to argue that in China, to argue that in Vietnam,

603
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: to argue that in Saudi Arabia.

604
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: Bahrain, Qatar and the other is ludicrous. There's no democracy.

605
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 2: There are literal monarchies, I mean, and that is where

606
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: I think that that is where Elon's position falls apart.

607
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: I mean, frankly, by this policy, the very thing which

608
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: gave so much hope to social media, the Arab Spring,

609
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: never would have happened, because under that rule they would

610
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: have complied with the Mubarak government orders and they would

611
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: have taken down Twitter, you know, so that you wouldn't

612
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: maybe you wouldn't have had an Arab Spring at all.

613
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean, by people forget, you know, before a lot

614
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: of a lot of the US government censorship resim was

615
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: architected under ISIS because ISIS was very active on Twitter

616
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: as a recruiting tool, and Twitter actually held up a

617
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: free speech defense from two thousand and probably like thirteen

618
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: or so from the very emergence of ISIS for at

619
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: least a year or two for a while before they

620
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: were able to comply. Now once again, you know this,

621
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: maybe it was redtecision or not, but at the very

622
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: least that architecture was used to eventually build up the

623
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: censorship regime after the Trump election in twenty sixteen.

624
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: So look, there's no question about it.

625
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: This is not a free speech position period, zero at all,

626
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 2: especially with the idea that if you know countries want it,

627
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: then they'll get it. I'm like, first of all, it's

628
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: not even true in.

629
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: Our own country. We live in a pretty democratic place.

630
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: Now imagine it in like a place which is genuinely

631
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: just full scale authoritarian.

632
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: Yes, And you know, there was some information that came

633
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: out from independent Turkish journalists about who exactly was being censored.

634
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: Lo and behold it was investigative journalist who're exposing things

635
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: the Ertuwan regime didn't like in particular, there are a

636
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: lot of questions about exactly what happened in that previous

637
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: coup attempt. This information was supposed to be released on Saturday,

638
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, that's when the censorship demand comes

639
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: in and Twitter caves to it. I think there's a

640
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: few more things to say about it.

641
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 4: One is that.

642
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: It's particularly important in a country like Turkey where almost

643
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: all of the media has been bought by Erdowan allies,

644
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: so there is very little independent media inside of that country,

645
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: and so social media becomes all that much more important.

646
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: That's number one.

647
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: Number Two, Elon has business dealings in Turkey with the

648
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: Turkish government, as he does with the Indian government, as

649
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: he does with many other governments around the world. Again,

650
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: that is not illegal, but it calls into question is

651
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: your commitment to Twitter, is your commitment to free speech,

652
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: is your commitment to your broader you know, business ventures

653
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: and bottom line? Because those are all very different things

654
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: that are going to result in very different outcomes. And

655
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: then the last point to make here is that actually

656
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: there's some indication that previous Twitter was better on these

657
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: sorts of demands.

658
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: This is from jud Legam.

659
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: He said in the six months following Must take Over,

660
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Twitter did not report a single request from governments in

661
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: which the company refused to comply, whereas they did refuse

662
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: to comply with three requests in the six months before

663
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: must take over and five requests in the six months

664
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: before that. Also last month, Twitter stopped sharing the censorship

665
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: demands that it even receives from governments, So by that metric,

666
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: Twitter under Jack Dorsey was also was actually better at

667
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: standing up to these government censorship demands than the supposed

668
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: free speech absolutency.

669
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: It's a very very foolish and it's one of those

670
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: where it really just doesn't make any sense. You know,

671
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: we this was flag to us. Let's put this up

672
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: there on the screen.

673
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: You know.

674
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: Jimmy Wales was the founder of Wikipedia, said what Wikipedia did.

675
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: We stood strong for our principles and we fought this

676
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court of Turkey and won. This is

677
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: what it means to treat freedom of expression as a

678
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: principle rather than a slogan. And that is, you know,

679
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: that's basically it, which is he was like, Okay, we're

680
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: not going to comply. Jimmy Wales and Wikipedia said we're

681
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: going to take this all the way to the Supreme

682
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: Court of Turkey and they actually won even in that country,

683
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: So that proves that Emon could have fought this if

684
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: he wanted to, and basically just caved to the initial

685
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: demand of the air to wander. Maybe it honestly just

686
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: came from confusion. He was like, oh, airedon Wan is

687
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: a dictator. We don't have any avenue, so we'll just

688
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: go ahead and do what he wants. Whereas others, you know,

689
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: just look at their legal team, they're like, Okay, well,

690
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: actually we can we have some level of challenge here,

691
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: and if we don't win, then we'll see what happens

692
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: and we can make a decision. But at least challenge

693
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: the order, especially in the middle of a goddamn election

694
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: when it probably matters the most.

695
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some of these government threats of like, oh,

696
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: we're going to take the whole platform down if you

697
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: don't comply, don't come to fruition number one in the

698
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: case of Wikipedia did though apparently Wikipedia was down in

699
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: Turkey for years while this was being resolved. But they

700
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: were committed to the principle, and since they fought it,

701
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: guess what other governments are going to be less likely

702
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: to come to them with these demands, because they know

703
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: that they're not going to just instantly cave when you say, oh,

704
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: take down your platform. They know they're not going to

705
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: just instantly cave and acquiesce. As we've mentioned a few times,

706
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: the reason this was so important right in this moment

707
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: is because Turkey is in the midst of a hotly

708
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: contested re election fight for Ertawan. We do have some

709
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: results here. Let's put this up on the screen from Broiders.

710
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: That election is so close that it is actually headed

711
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: now to a runoff. Neither of the candidates were able

712
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: to achieve the fifty percent that would be needed in

713
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: order to avoid a runoff. Now, Erdawan did outperform somewhat

714
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: the polls. He has about a five point lead over

715
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: his opponent, whose name I am sadly not even going

716
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: to attempt to pronounce. But the reason that Irtawan was

717
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: apparently in trouble here is because the economy has been trash.

718
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: They've had up to eighty percent inflation, so devastating levels

719
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: of inflation, and then they also had that horrific, tragic earthquake.

720
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: And obviously no one can control mother Nature. But some

721
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: of the construction projects that have been undertaken under Ertawan

722
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: were really shoddily done, and so that contributed, some are

723
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: saying to the death toll.

724
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 4: There was also a lot.

725
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: Of consternation about the initial response not being.

726
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 4: Aggressive or effective enough.

727
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: So that's why he was in and continues to be,

728
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: you know, in such trouble here. There was a third

729
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: candidate in this race. Of course, he'll be out now

730
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: for the runoffs, so they'll be head to head who

731
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: that person who got like five percent of the vote

732
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: who they endorse, is going to ultimately be very critical.

733
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: But you can see how this is a game of inches,

734
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,479
Speaker 1: and so you know, you take some critical journalists who

735
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: are about to drop some significant reports off of social

736
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: media and make it very difficult for the public to

737
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: be aware of what's going on there, especially with the

738
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: state media, with the local media in Turkey being basically

739
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: state propaganda. At this point, you see why these decisions

740
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: really really matter.

741
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: I mean, if you thought the Hunter.

742
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: Biden laptop situation was egregious, which of course we did,

743
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: the level of censorship that's going on in Turkey is

744
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: far and beyond that and far and more far more

745
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: critical in terms of potential election.

746
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why it matters exactly.

747
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: It actually arguably matters way more over there than it

748
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: does even here, just because the level of control that

749
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: the state has exactly over official communications. I think it's

750
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: really a tragedy, you know, to bring these again. Like

751
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: you said, you have no idea how these things can go.

752
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: But I do think that these platforms, the ability to

753
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: express yourself and all that they matter the most in

754
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 2: some of these because they can make the biggest impact

755
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: when you have zero voices of dissent, and that's part

756
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: of why these governments are so obsessed with policing them

757
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: at all times.

758
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right.

759
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: Other big names with regard to Twitter, which is that

760
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: you will recall some time ago, many months ago, Elon

761
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: did his little Twitter Bowl and said should I step

762
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: down a CEO? And the yes, you should step down

763
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: position one, But we hadn't gotten much movement there in

764
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: terms of him moving aside, while we do now have

765
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 1: a CEO who has officially been chosen.

766
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 4: Her name is Linda Yakarino.

767
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: She works She's a high level executive at NBC Universal

768
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: in charge of basically bringing in all of their advertising dollars.

769
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: So she's very well versed in the world of advertising,

770
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: the world of corporate sponsors. That's where all her relationships alied,

771
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: not so much on the tech side, and she's kind

772
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: of coming in for criticism from here from all corners

773
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: in terms of how she's likely to run Twitter, in

774
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: terms of what her politics are. One of the things

775
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: that really caught our eye is she actually interviewed Elon

776
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: not that long ago, and she was pushing him on

777
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: behalf of advertisers corporations to reinstate this influence council so

778
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: that you know, corporate marketing heads could be in constant

779
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: communication with Twitter and trying to push them and shape

780
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 1: their decisions on things like content moderation. Elon here takes

781
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: the principle like I don't think that'd be a great

782
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: idea stance, But just listen to how she positions and

783
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: frames her views.

784
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 4: Take a listen to some of us.

785
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 6: For example, you've said you probably shouldn't tweet after three am.

786
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 4: Well, I've got good advice for all of us.

787
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 7: I've got myself into trouble a few times.

788
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 6: I'm very aware of those. So after three am you

789
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 6: travel all over the world. Lord knows how you handle

790
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 6: time zones in space. Will you commit to be a

791
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 6: little more specific and not tweet after three am? People

792
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 6: in this room would like to see that.

793
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: We'll make them fear more.

794
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 7: I will aspire to tweet less after three am. But

795
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 7: I mean it is important that you know. I mean,

796
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 7: if I were to say, yes, you can influence me,

797
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 7: that would be wrong. That would be very wrong. That

798
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 7: would be a diminishment of freedom of speech.

799
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 6: But I want to be specific about influencing. It's more

800
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 6: of an open feedback loop for the advertising experts in

801
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 6: this room to help develop Twitter into a place where

802
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 6: they will be excited about investing more money.

803
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 7: It's totally cool to say that you want to have

804
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 7: your advertising appear in certain places in Twitter and not

805
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 7: in other places. But it is not cool to try

806
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 7: to say what Twitter will do, and if that means

807
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 7: losing advertising dollars, we lose it. But freedom of speech

808
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 7: is paramount.

809
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 6: Twitter one point zero had a very well populated, much

810
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 6: loved influence counsel. I know, I don't. I think we

811
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 6: need to change the Elan does not want to be influenced.

812
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: So the influence council may not be coming back. But

813
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: instead he just decided to get one of the advertising

814
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: executives to run the whole joint.

815
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: I think it's just very clear what happened here about it.

816
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: For forty four billion, he paid probably fifteen to twenty

817
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 2: billion more than it was actually worth after the downturn.

818
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: Now he's stuck with it, couldn't get out of it

819
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: after suing, and it.

820
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: Had his fun.

821
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 2: Tried to Twitter Blue was a disaster by all accounts.

822
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: He's not bringing in more than a couple million dollars

823
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: per month, which is not going to cover the five

824
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: billion dollars in revenue that they were already making per

825
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: year anim on advertising. And don't forget the five billion

826
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: dollar revenue that they were making actually was not enough

827
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: to turn a profit. They were still running at a loss,

828
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: so they probably need to make six billion. Well, I

829
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: since he fired ninety percent of the staff or whatever,

830
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: let's say it was less than that because staff at

831
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day still was not some of

832
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: the more significant operations that they were spending. So who

833
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: do you turn to. You turn to the only other

834
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: revenue that you can tap. You tried direct subscription, It

835
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: didn't work out. You got to go to the advertisers.

836
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: If you're going to the advertisers, you got to get

837
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 2: a Madison Avenue beloved figure. Let's go and put this

838
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 2: up there on the screen. That's exactly what the Wall

839
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: Street Journal and the Business Press are describing her as, quote,

840
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: meet Linda Yacarino and Elon Musk, new Twitter CEO and

841
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: the ad world's velvet hamp billionaire bets the NBC Universal

842
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: executive with Madison Avenue ties will bring advertisers back to Twitter.

843
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: And what do we learn from Linda Yacarino. This is

844
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: a long term, longtime New York City kind of aligned

845
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: Madison Avenue executive with deep ties to the media industry.

846
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: They say she's regarded as sales machine, the velvet hammer

847
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: because of her hard nosed negotiation tactics come wrapped in

848
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: a friendly package.

849
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 3: Ideologically, they say that she is aligned with Musk.

850
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 2: I don't really know what that means for somebody who

851
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: literally worked at NBC, but according to them her track record,

852
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: she had a two thousand plus advertising sales team and

853
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: they have generated more than one hundred billion dollars in

854
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: ad sales over the last twelve years, which is crazy

855
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: for NBC Universal. Before that, she worked at Turner Broadcasting,

856
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Discovery. She steered the company through decline in television.

857
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: So this is a very This is as like swampy

858
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: as it gets. I think whenever it comes to the

859
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 2: ad business, not saying that necessarily in a bad term,

860
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: because that's kind of what you need. Yeah, if that's

861
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 2: the way that you want to go. Now, is this

862
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: the free speech executive?

863
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: No? No, not even question.

864
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean it fits with the previous segment of like,

865
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: is this a smart choice? If you're just looking at

866
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: the bottom line, I think it's a smart choice. That's

867
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: great because they desperately need to bring advertisers back.

868
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 4: She has deep.

869
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: Relationships within the industry. She can call them up, she

870
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: can smooth them. Things are going to be different. I've

871
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: got your back. They tell a story actually in this

872
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal article, just to give you a sense

873
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: of how she would operate.

874
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 4: Over at NBC Universal.

875
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: There was some big placed, you know, expensive ad for

876
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: I think it was General Motors that ran during the

877
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Today's Show, but ran next to an advertisement that you know,

878
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 1: painted some negative picture of like lithium, and they thought

879
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: it was it was bad to have those two things together.

880
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: So she immediately calls up GMS. This I'm going to

881
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: make it right. We're going to run it again on

882
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: the Today Show. So she's heightened sensitivity towards how these

883
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: corporate executives and corporate advertisers are going to think about

884
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: where their ads are and what it's put up next to.

885
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: That's going to be her priority. She's going to tell

886
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: them I have your back. And as we've said from

887
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: the beginning, there's a reason why all of these platforms

888
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: are run from in a very similar way when it

889
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: comes to content moderation, and it is not because of

890
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: the government, actually, I mean that's a piece of it.

891
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: It's really overwhelmingly shaped by what are advertisers. What is

892
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: corporate America going to be comfortable with?

893
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 4: She's the expert at that.

894
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: So again, is it an intelligent business decision to try

895
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: to lure advertisers back, Yes, I absolutely think so. It's

896
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: not like Twitter is like a complicated tech play. They've

897
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: got their platform, they know generally what they're doing.

898
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 4: They don't need a tech expert.

899
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: They need someone who's going to be competent and has

900
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: these relationships in the ad world. Is that remotely what

901
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: Elon promised when he purchased his platform? Of course, not

902
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: not remotely, and you know, there's been a lot of

903
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: reading the tea leaves of what her politics are, and ultimately,

904
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: with someone like this who's just, you know, at heart

905
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: like a hard charging capitalist executive, I don't know that

906
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: the underlying what she thinks about stop the stealer whatever

907
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: actually matters, because the bottom line is going to be

908
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: the bottom line with this person.

909
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: But there was a lot of upset to put this up.

910
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: On the screen among a lot of Elon Musk fans

911
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: that she's very involved with the World Economic Forum. She

912
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: chairs a committee there and has been involved for a.

913
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: Number of years.

914
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: And then on the other side, there was also upset

915
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: from a lot of liberals and people on the left.

916
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: It's some of the people that she follows and whose

917
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: tweets she likes. I guess this is the part where

918
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: maybe her politics theoretically are in line with Elon's, which is,

919
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, she follows people like Lynn Wood and Sydney

920
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: Power and a lot of other right wing figures as well.

921
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: But again I sort of think those pieces are to

922
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: a distraction from her core function, which is to make

923
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: Twitter a place once again that is going to be

924
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: comfy for advertisers and basically just bring it back to

925
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: the old regime.

926
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: People like this, their personal politicies don't literally matter at all,

927
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: like what they they're in many ways, they are the

928
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: ultimate chameleons.

929
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: Like whenever you're selling somebody, you don't sell one hundred.

930
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: Billion dollars with the ads without being at all things

931
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: to all people. You can be conservative when you need to,

932
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: it can be the biggest lib whenever you need to.

933
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: That's probably honestly that she was probably able to smooth him.

934
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: I mean.

935
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: The other thing is for somebody like this, I don't

936
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: know why you would leave a multi billion dollar corporation

937
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: to work for one of the most capricious people on

938
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 2: the planet who famously is hard charging with a tremendous

939
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: level of risk. I mean, I guess if you do

940
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: turn it around, you look like a genius. But almost

941
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 2: nobody else has been able to last. I mean, so

942
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 2: many other people who have worked for Elon, for example,

943
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: there's a reason you don't really know the names of

944
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 2: the other the junior executives at SpaceX or at Tesla.

945
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: Elon is always the star at his companies. He'll work

946
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: people into the ground. He takes I'm not going to

947
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: say he takes credit because he is intimately involved and

948
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: works just as hard as all of them, but it

949
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: is clear in all these companies it's all about Elon.

950
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

951
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 4: On the other hand, I never heard her name before

952
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 4: and now I have.

953
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah Fair.

954
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: You know, she's the subject of a lot of news

955
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: articles and a lot of speculation and a lot of interest,

956
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: and so according to the Wall Street at Wall Street

957
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: Journal report, she was really miffed that she hadn't been

958
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: promoted higher within NBC Universal. There was a position that

959
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: came open that she wasn't even considered for, and she

960
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: was upset with that. She made no secret of the

961
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: fact that she wanted to be in a CEO position.

962
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: So I guess she feels like this is her shot

963
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: and has a lot of confidence in her ability to

964
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: be able to turn things around, a lot of confidence

965
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 1: in the relationships that she has in the ad world

966
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: to try to bring those advertisers back to the platform,

967
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: and so she's going to take her shot.

968
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 3: She will take her shot.

969
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: We will see how it all works out. Okay, let's

970
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 2: go ahead and head to the next one. On Ukraine,

971
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: A really crazy piece of news that we want to

972
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: spend a little bit of time on because it fits

973
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: very neatly with some other news that you already heard

974
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: here on Breaking Points with the Washington Post is just

975
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: catching up with Let's go and put this up there

976
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: on the screen from the drive, which is a fantastic publication.

977
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: They say four Russian aircraft were shot down within their

978
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: own borders.

979
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 3: Now there are.

980
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: Quote multiple possibilities as to what brought these aircraft down.

981
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: Most would mark a major change in Ukraine's counter air abilities.

982
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: So what they point to is that the Russian Air

983
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: Force has allegedly had one of its worst days of

984
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: the war in the year on Saturday. Details remain limited,

985
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: It appears that Russia has lost two helicopters, a strike

986
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: fighter and a fighter jet with no survivors. What makes

987
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: quote this all is troubling for the air force is

988
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: that all of these losses happened in its own countries

989
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: areas not too far from the border with Ukraine. All

990
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 2: four of the aircraft came from well within Russian territory

991
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: opposite of northeastern Ukraine. Video shows one of the helicopters

992
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: breaking up after what looks like a missile hits it

993
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: near the town of Klinsky, fifty kilometers north of the

994
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: Ukrainian border. Russia has now confirmed that some of these

995
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 2: were shot down, with all nine.

996
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: Aboard and four down of the aircraft were killed.

997
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 2: Moreover, some have claimed at least one and possibly both

998
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: were extremely.

999
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 3: Rare electronic warfare variants.

1000
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 2: So anyway, this is a big problem for the Russian

1001
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: aircraft and for the Russian air force. Now what brought

1002
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 2: these things down? Initial claims suggested friendly fire had downed

1003
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 2: the aircraft and yet another case of fratricide by the

1004
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: Russian air defenses. But Russian authorities have begun hunts for

1005
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 2: quote saboteurs who were involved in the shootdowns, potentially partisans

1006
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: or Ukrainian special forces armed with manpads. That war has

1007
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: increasingly come now to this area of Russia and has

1008
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: could be involved in possible cross border incidents. So what

1009
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: the drives is that it's possible Ukrainian special forces and

1010
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: partisans managed to ambush these aircraft with these manpads. Now

1011
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: they say, if it not fractricized or manpads, Ukraine may

1012
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 2: have moved longer range surface to air missile systems closer

1013
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: to the Russian border, and that these air defenses are

1014
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: exceedingly valuable to Ukraine and stretch across the countries. These

1015
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: newer systems which were provided from the West, including the

1016
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: Patriot missile systems and others, are thought to be rapidly

1017
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: dwindling and this may be a change in the overall

1018
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: defense architecture. So once again, the Drive is a fantastic publication.

1019
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: They do a lot of air specific analysis and the

1020
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: reason why I think it was important to highlight this

1021
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: crystal is that, as they say, losing air superiority, which

1022
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: they haven't had over Ukraine now for a long time,

1023
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 2: but at the very least the ability to launch air

1024
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 2: attacks in combination with their cruise missiles and others has

1025
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: been a major strategic advantage for the Russians. Part of

1026
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: why the Ukrainians want these jets so badly because they

1027
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: want to be able to do battle and strike Russia

1028
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 2: as well, which I guess they are at least open

1029
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: up or at least to our policymakers. But the point

1030
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: is is that the escalation here by using US provided

1031
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 2: weapons systems to shoot down stuff inside of Russia. Yes,

1032
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: by the way, it is headed to Ukraine, no question

1033
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 2: about it. Morally not saying it isn't a fair game,

1034
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: only saying strategically, this marks a major change in the war,

1035
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: because if you start seeing major Russian assets not only

1036
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: get bombed but shot down inside of Russia, could change

1037
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 2: the calculus. Yeah, for the level of force of the

1038
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 2: Russians are willing and start to use.

1039
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 4: That's right.

1040
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: And it also shows you just the constant creep of

1041
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: this war, our involvement in it, what the Ukrainians are

1042
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: willing to do, what they're willing to admit to doing.

1043
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw that drone strike on the Krumlin

1044
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: potential putin assassination.

1045
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: At should say that the Ukrainians denied. They denied, Oh,

1046
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: we had nothing to do with it.

1047
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 4: They deny all of this.

1048
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: But I mean early in the war, when there were

1049
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: reports of potentially strikes outside of Ukraine, this was a

1050
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: huge deal. Now this sort of news comes and goes

1051
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: like it's nothing, but it shows you if indeed the

1052
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: Ukrainians were behind these attacks, it shows you how brazen

1053
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: they're willing to be and how much they are willing

1054
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: to push and continue to escalate.

1055
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 4: And as we previously.

1056
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: Reported, some of the more brazen plans of Zelenski and

1057
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: his advisors have been short circuited just by the fact

1058
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 1: that they didn't have those longer range missiles. Well, guess

1059
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: what Britain has decided to send them now, long range

1060
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: attack drones with a range of over two hundred kilometers.

1061
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: So that opens up whole new possibilities for what they

1062
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: could do inside of Russia, and whole new set of

1063
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 1: risks of you know, potential dramatic escalation that could draw

1064
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: us even deeper into this conflict or lead to horrific

1065
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, outcomes like Russia feeling forced into using a

1066
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, Not that I'm justifying if they ever did that,

1067
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: but feeling that their hand is forced in that sort

1068
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: of way. So this is a very dangerous set of circumstances.

1069
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: And Asaga alluded to, you know, one the things that

1070
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: I think maybe the most dramatic takeaway we had from

1071
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: those leaked documents was Zolenski plotting attacks and basically being

1072
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: unable to execute them just because we hadn't shipped him

1073
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: those longer range missiles. Well, the mainstream press is finally

1074
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: picking up on some of this reporting as well. I

1075
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: can put this up on the screen. This is from

1076
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. Zelenski in private plots bold attacks inside

1077
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: of Russia. The leak shows US intercepts revealed the Ukrainian

1078
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: leader's aggressive instincts, a marked contrast to his public facing

1079
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: image as the stoic statesman weathering Russia's brutal onslaught. So

1080
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: they picked up on the incident we had inside those

1081
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: leak documents. From the documents, we were able to get

1082
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: a holdup. But the Washington Post has far more documents

1083
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: than we were even able to obtain, and they see

1084
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: a number of instances within those documents of Zelensky pushing

1085
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 1: really aggressive and Belko's action.

1086
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 2: Let me read this, Ukraine's leader has proposed going in

1087
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 2: an audacious direction, occupying Russian villages to gain leverage over Moscow,

1088
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 2: bombing a pipeline that transfers Russian oil to Hungary, bombing

1089
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: a pipeline interesting a NATO member privately pining for long

1090
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: range missiles to hit targets inside Russian borders. The documents,

1091
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: which they say previously not previously disclosed, they reveal a

1092
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 2: leader with aggressive instincts, as sharply contrast with his public

1093
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: image as the calm and stoic statesman weathering Russia's brutal

1094
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: on site. The insights were gleaned through these intercepted digital

1095
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 2: communications at the level to which US policymakers are forced

1096
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: to spy on Ukraine because they do not actually have

1097
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: any real insight into what he's doing. Once again, we

1098
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: told you all of this about a month ago. Put

1099
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. There's a screenshot that's

1100
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: our video that we did exactly on this one. And

1101
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: at the time, the reason that we did the story

1102
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: with the headline that we did was because we knew

1103
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 2: that it.

1104
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 3: Was so significant. Took the press a month to catch up.

1105
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 4: They had to do their witch hunt first.

1106
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 3: Ye first they had to the one.

1107
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: First, we had to do the witch hunt for the

1108
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: leaker and brandom and white supremacist, gun toting racist. Then

1109
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: we can able get to the news. But I'm not

1110
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: a defense to the guy, just saying that that's what

1111
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: they found. More, which is insane to me.

1112
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 4: Possible World War three, right.

1113
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: The leaker itself is the least interesting part of the

1114
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: entire story. The most important store are the docks to

1115
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: which they have decided to catch up to. I mean, look,

1116
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 2: it's clear as day, you can see it right here.

1117
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: This is what he wants to do.

1118
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: And you know, everyone always criticizes anyone who points this

1119
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 2: out as dangerous because they're like, well, wouldn't you Yes,

1120
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: I would, I would if I were him. But we're

1121
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: the ones who are providing him with all the weapons.

1122
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 2: So that means that we have a stake. Now, are

1123
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 2: you willing to have US provided weapons occupy a Russian

1124
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: village because that sounds like a pretty good pretext for

1125
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: the Russians to widen the war.

1126
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 3: Same thing whenever it comes to bombing and NATO, this

1127
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 3: is the other thing.

1128
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: He literally is proposing bombing a pipeline which provides oil

1129
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 2: to a NATO country. That is not only an act

1130
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 2: of war technically, that would be like an Article five

1131
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 2: level attack on the the NATO and the United States.

1132
00:52:59,320 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 3: Don't ask me.

1133
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: Go and look at the way that the US and

1134
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 2: NATO were reacting whenever they were blaming Russia for bombing

1135
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 2: the nord Stream pipeline. If suddenly that's all gone away,

1136
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: So they're floating these level of attacks which could very

1137
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 2: easily spiral into disaster if it.

1138
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 3: Was just them on their own. Go for it.

1139
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: Do what you want, because at the end of the day,

1140
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: the risk is all yours, but it's not. They've socialized

1141
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 2: the risks to all of us effectively, and so that

1142
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: means we have to have some level of concern. It's

1143
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: existential for them, it's not existential for us. That's the

1144
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 2: level of This is why you can have empathy for

1145
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: somebody and also not necessarily want to put your entire

1146
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: nation or put aside the nation let's say, hundreds of

1147
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: billions of dollars more. Is it really worth it for

1148
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: the dun boss? You know, I'm going back to reread

1149
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: one of my favorite books about World War One, and

1150
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: at the time there was a lot of consternation about

1151
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: Alsace Lorraine, a portion of France which used to be Germany,

1152
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: which changed hands multiple times between the nine hundreds and

1153
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundred, and the level of fervor and the

1154
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of French and Germans who died over

1155
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 2: this scrap of land and the city of Strasbourg.

1156
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 3: Was it really worth it? I mean, we're one hundred

1157
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 3: years later.

1158
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: Who cares about Alsace Lorraine. I'm sure the people there

1159
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 2: certainly do, But the generals and all them, they're like, no, no, no,

1160
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 2: it would be it would dishonor France to give up

1161
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: a scrap of Alsace and saying vice versa. For the Germans,

1162
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: it was like it reminds me so much of the

1163
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: dun Boss and the level of like insanity through which

1164
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: they were literally willing to risk the existent I mean,

1165
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 2: in the German case, quite literally, we're willing to destroy

1166
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 2: their entire regime for a scrap of territory which they

1167
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: only recently won.

1168
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: Back in the eighteen seventies. It sounds insane when you

1169
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 3: talk about it. Now.

1170
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: Let's also I mean crete has been destroyed, yes, the

1171
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: number of people who have been killed, civilians and military

1172
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: age men, which by the way, now if you are

1173
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 1: a military aged man, like even if you want to

1174
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: leave the country, you were banned from travel.

1175
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 4: The economy has been decimated. I mean, this has.

1176
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: Been our desire for this war to continue in the

1177
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: foolish aim of weakening Russia. Has been devastating for this country.

1178
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: I mean that at bottom is this is just it's

1179
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: a catastrophe for humanity, and the Russian losses are a

1180
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: catastrophe as well. You said something important, Soccer, which is

1181
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: that this war is existential for them. It's not for US,

1182
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: and that's exactly why Zelenski is so.

1183
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 4: In his mind.

1184
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: Again, I don't blame him, because I totally understand where

1185
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: he's coming from. I blame us, I blame our leadership.

1186
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: But he wants to make this war existential for us

1187
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,959
Speaker 1: because that draws US into the conflict, and that makes

1188
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: it so that is their best chance to actually take

1189
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: back all of the territory that has been lost to Russia.

1190
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: So when he thinks about, you know, when we're thinking

1191
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: about an escalation and some sort of you know, direct

1192
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: involvement with Russia, we're thinking that's a disaster. He's thinking

1193
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: that could be a positive in my favor, because that

1194
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: could really strengthen my hand. So it just shows you

1195
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: how our interests are not the same. And you know,

1196
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: if you are have deep empathy for the Ukrainian people,

1197
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: which I truly, truly do, you have to want this

1198
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 1: war to be brought to a conclusion because this has

1199
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: been nothing but a disaster and a slaughter for everybody

1200
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: that is involved.

1201
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely.

1202
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: And look, I mean so even by all accounts, they

1203
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: have expended tremendous amounts of men and material that is

1204
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 2: going to dry up eventually in the city of Bakbu.

1205
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: I was just reading this morning. They're like, Ukraine makes gains,

1206
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: but Russia controls ninety percent of the city. What so

1207
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 2: you have poured tens of billions of dollars of Western

1208
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: aid into a battle where you still control less than

1209
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 2: ten percent of the entire city. Now the argument on

1210
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 2: the Ukrainian side as well, we're killing a whole bunch

1211
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 2: of Russian so they got millions of them. You're the

1212
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 2: ones with dwindling population and you have to literally close

1213
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: your borders in order to plug your holes. Russia has

1214
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 2: international allies, it's a great superpower. They've got an industrial base,

1215
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 2: they have nothing. Their city and economic base has been

1216
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 2: has been basically wiped out. I mean, using the World

1217
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 2: War One analogy, it literally is like you've got Russia here,

1218
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 2: which is a great power status its ability to have

1219
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: trade on the sea and have negotiations with other countries

1220
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 2: in draw from others, as well as have its own base.

1221
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 2: And then you basically got Ukraine, which is almost like

1222
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 2: a central power level one, which is expending in this

1223
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: existential conflict, but has vastly dwindling resource as well.

1224
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 3: Eventually, in some side of World War One style conflict.

1225
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: The one that does not have the capacity to continue

1226
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 2: to wage war both on a political and economic level

1227
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: is the one that's going to fold and eventually lose,

1228
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: and so pouring all of your men and resources existentially

1229
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 2: into a conflict over Bakmun is insane. And we even

1230
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: know that from the leaked Pentagon documents that they're like, look,

1231
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: we don't think this is the right thing to do.

1232
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: It seems like it's a screw up. Look I could

1233
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 3: be totally wrong.

1234
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: Maybe he's the greatest military genius since like Frederick the

1235
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 2: greater Napoleon.

1236
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 3: All Right, it's possible.

1237
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: He certainly pulled off the counter offensive, but it is

1238
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: May fifteenth. We continue to wait for what this counter

1239
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 2: offensive is going to look like. And if that is

1240
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: the last one, well he better plays cars right because

1241
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 2: if he doesn't, now what looks like Bakbut you're not

1242
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 2: even going to have the resources to try and do

1243
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: that again next year. The Russians will. They got plenty

1244
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: of money, they got plenty of men. If they want

1245
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 2: to do conscription again, they certainly can. So keep that

1246
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: in mind.

1247
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: Bach Mode is like a smoking hole in the ground

1248
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: at this point, and it's the photos still controlled ninety

1249
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: percent by the Russians. Yeah so, and we did warn

1250
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: against putting so much of his resources and focus into

1251
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: this battle, which is now the longest and bloodiest battle

1252
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: of this entire war, where.

1253
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 4: Again they're making small gains.

1254
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 1: But this is according to the New York Times too,

1255
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: by the way, Russia still controls about ninety percent of

1256
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: the largely ruined city. So is that impacting their ability

1257
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 1: to even launch this, you know much valley hoods spring

1258
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: offensive that we haven't seen yet.

1259
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 4: I mean, it certainly would. It has to be having

1260
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 4: an impact.

1261
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: And the whole idea has been, all right, let them

1262
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: do the spring offensive and strength in their hand and

1263
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: then maybe we can talk about negotiations. But if the

1264
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: spring offensive doesn't come together or isn't very effective, then

1265
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: what we're going to hear is like, oh, well, now

1266
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: we have to do even more because their hand wasn't strengthen,

1267
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: Russia's in too strong of a position. Of course, if

1268
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: the spring offensive does go well, then they'll say, oh,

1269
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians can win.

1270
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 4: We got to keep pushing, We got to keep going.

1271
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: So so far up to this point, all roads have

1272
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: just led to more war, more conflict, push peace negotiations

1273
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: off for another day.

1274
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 3: That's right, Okay, let's go to the second party here,

1275
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 3: one of my favorites in a long time.

1276
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: Everybody in the West is applodding Germany. Germans, they say,

1277
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 2: if they have woken up to the criticism, they have

1278
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 2: decided we will provide Ukraine with more military aid.

1279
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 3: I said, oh, that's great.

1280
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's your continent. You actually have fought wars

1281
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: with Russia. You're only ones have the most to lose.

1282
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 2: Maybe the more you gave, the less we have to.

1283
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: Let's go and put this up there on the screen.

1284
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: They have announced three billion dollars in military aid for

1285
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 2: Ukraine ahead of the expected Zelenski visit. Now that includes tanks,

1286
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: anti aircraft systems, ammunition. Zelenski is expected to visit Germany

1287
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 2: for the very first time since the Russian invasion. Berlin

1288
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: says they want to show that Germany is serious in

1289
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 2: its support for Ukraine. Germany quote will provide all the

1290
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 2: help it can, as long as it takes. I just

1291
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 2: want to again put this into perspective, how pathetic this

1292
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: is from the largest power on the European continent, the

1293
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 2: largest economic powerhouse, Germany, with its three billion dollars does

1294
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 2: not even match what the United Kingdom has given, does

1295
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 2: not come close to the level of military aid even

1296
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 2: provided by all the other EU institutions combined, and with

1297
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: their three billion is now one fortieth of what the

1298
01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: United States has provided the Ukraine in military aid in

1299
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: terms of we have provided forty three billion dollars just

1300
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: in military aid. In some combination, it's been hundreds of

1301
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 2: billions in terms of explicit and implicit aid to Ukraine

1302
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 2: because all of US took a massive hit on our

1303
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 2: gas prizes, on economic supply chain issues globe worldwide, but

1304
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 2: especially here in the US, and on top of all

1305
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 2: of these other countries. But Germany with its three billion dollars,

1306
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 2: it's completely ridiculous, or three billion euros is completely ridiculous

1307
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: to consider this in any way something that's game changing,

1308
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 2: because what.

1309
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 3: Did I just lay out?

1310
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 2: The Ukrainians are pouring tens of billions of AMMO and

1311
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 2: of weapons and material into Bakmut. Three billion is like

1312
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: a month on the Bakmut front. If there's no way

1313
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 2: it's gonna plug any of the holes that they need.

1314
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 2: And this just shows you the titanic level of this conflict.

1315
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: If you want them to win.

1316
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: It would cost billions, like a billion, sorry, it would

1317
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 2: cost hundreds of billions of dollars, which we.

1318
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 3: Are not prepared to give.

1319
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: And the Ukrainians can barely cough or the Germans in

1320
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: the French and all think can barely cough up a

1321
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 2: billion or three.

1322
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 3: So then you only have one option, which is negotiation.

1323
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's probably easier to just get to that

1324
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: point sooner rather than expending billions, expending lives, and then

1325
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: eventually coming to that point.

1326
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 3: Anyways.

1327
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, in the Wall Street Journal had a report

1328
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: put this next tweet up on the screen about how

1329
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: much we're really driving the train here, because they say

1330
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: the story suggests a lot of Western European support for

1331
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: Ukraine is a performance for Washington more than a response

1332
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: to real security fears. And you know, in that context,

1333
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,479
Speaker 1: Germany making a big show of their three billion dollar

1334
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: contribution makes sense because if we're the ones, and this

1335
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: is how it has appeared from the beginning, we're driving

1336
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: the train. The UK is our junior, ally junior, even

1337
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: more hawkish ally, by the way, and this whole thing

1338
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: has unfolded according to our plan and our wishes and

1339
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: our desires. So yeah, if you're Germany or France or whoever,

1340
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, well you're into this thing, go ahead,

1341
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: you can do it. We'll throw in a little bit

1342
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: when you pressure us and shame us into doing it,

1343
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: or Asalunci come a visit so that we can keep

1344
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: up appearances. But go ahead, Americans and fund your conflict,

1345
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: your proxy war that you apparently seem to be so into.

1346
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

1347
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I probably would do the same thing

1348
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 2: of our with them, Like why wouldn't you fund your

1349
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 2: massive welfare state whenever you can only throw a few

1350
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 2: billion or whatever into a conflict which is genuinely important

1351
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 2: to you. It's just, you know, I always try and

1352
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: flip it around. If something was going on in Mexico,

1353
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: you think, really think that Germans would be spending X

1354
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: amount of their GDP and military aid.

1355
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 3: To help us out? No, never go ask that.

1356
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: Go find out if you want to go in google

1357
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: how much the Germans did in Afghanistan.

1358
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 3: Almost nothing.

1359
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 2: The only NATO ally which really helped us out at

1360
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 2: all was the UK, to which I will give them

1361
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of credit. They fought, died, and fought very bravely,

1362
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 2: but the rest of them, you know, all these other countries,

1363
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: they barely showed up. They had all these rules of

1364
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: engagement where they barely helped in the US campaign on Afghanistan,

1365
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: and that was when we were directly attacked and technically,

1366
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: you know, needed them as supposed to be some big

1367
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 2: NATO effort. You can go see, you know, in terms

1368
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 2: of the number of NATO advisors and troops. Once again,

1369
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 2: you know, you don't necessarily blame somebody for taking advantage

1370
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 2: of the situation, but just to show you, like in

1371
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: quote unquote our hour of need didn't show up all

1372
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 2: that well, of which a lot of people will tell.

1373
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 3: You about well.

1374
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: But Germany and France also, you know, at the beginning,

1375
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: really didn't seem to agree with our approach either, so

1376
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: you know, they were much more interested in negotiations and

1377
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: trying to avert this conflict to start with. They have

1378
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: been consistently more interested in, you know, bringing back together

1379
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: some sort of ceasefire negotiations.

1380
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 4: So they don't even view this the same.

1381
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: Way that we do, which is why I think, you know,

1382
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: they're reluctant to give more than what they're pressured into

1383
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: doing because they don't even they don't even really agree

1384
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: with the direction that we've taken the conflict in.

1385
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 2: So then let them do it the way that they

1386
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 2: want to, because it's their country and it's their land,

1387
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 2: and we don't, we barely have anything to do with

1388
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 2: it anyway.

1389
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: That's what it is.

1390
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 2: What it is, three billion dollars congratulation to Berlin.

1391
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: All right, So we have some new reporting about just

1392
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: how far back the issues with Senator Diane Feinstein go.

1393
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone has a report here which just underscores a

1394
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: lot of people in DC, all the media. They all

1395
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: knew that she was not doing this job, that her

1396
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: staffers were doing this job, that she was in severe

1397
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: cognitive decline for years and years, and it's only recently

1398
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: that anyone has said anything about this. Put this up

1399
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: on the screen from Rolling Stone. Their headline is, Feinstein's

1400
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 1: health crisis goes back farther than we knew. Staff or

1401
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: the high ranking Democrat have four years had a system

1402
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: to keep her from walking the halls of Congress alone,

1403
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: sources tell Rolling Stone. This was, according to multiple sources,

1404
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to Feinstein herself. They would have a staff member

1405
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: ready at any given moment to up and walk with

1406
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: her wherever she was going, because they were so worried

1407
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 1: about what she would say to reporters or anyone else

1408
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 1: she stumbled across if she was left unsupervised. So a

1409
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: literal babysitting plan to make sure that she doesn't have

1410
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: any exchanges that are not watched over by some staff

1411
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: member or another. And as they say, the system has

1412
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: been played in place for years. This one former staffer

1413
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 1: who left in sort of a very tense, conflicted circumstances.

1414
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: He spoke on the record to Rolling Stone and says

1415
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: they won't let her leave by herself, but she doesn't

1416
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: even know it. They talk also in this piece about

1417
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: how obviously Center's juggle a heavy schedule of votes, hearing

1418
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: some meetings on a wide range of subjects, Momentary lapses

1419
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: and mix ups about a topic are far from unheard of,

1420
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 1: But over the last several years, interviews with Feinstein devolved

1421
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: into confusion. On a near daily basis, a familiar pattern

1422
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 1: would emerge. Findzein would make an unexpected stance on a

1423
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: bill or policy position, only for her staff to quickly

1424
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: follow up by email to correct the record.

1425
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 4: Listen to this.

1426
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: It got to the point where reporters would pause before

1427
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 1: rushing to publish an otherwise newsworthy declaration because of the

1428
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: inevitability of staff reversing or statement.

1429
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 4: So what does that tell you?

1430
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: Every journalist who interacted with her over the past number

1431
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: of years, and every.

1432
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 4: Staffer who was working for her over the past.

1433
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: Number of years knew exactly how bad it was, and

1434
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: they didn't say a word to you. They did not

1435
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: tell the voters of California or anyone else anything about

1436
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: what everybody knew was a complete open secret. Perly, This former,

1437
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: a grief staffer, described office meetings were an issued be

1438
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: discussed for several minutes, only for findsein to bring up

1439
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 1: the same topic later in the same meeting, and then

1440
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: staff would have to go over it again like they

1441
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: had never talked about it. Because this was all brand

1442
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: new to her. And this is really astonishing, they said.

1443
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 1: She They began to have to noticeably restructure around her

1444
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: mental limitations in twenty nineteen because junior staff were making

1445
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 1: jokes about her cognitive decline. Interns were noticing it, so

1446
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: they made sure that there was no junior staff in

1447
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: meetings with her so that they could not see.

1448
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 4: How bad it was.

1449
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: And they cut off any of schedule events after mid afternoon.

1450
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,200
Speaker 1: There's a quote in here where they say her days

1451
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: are all bad days. Now, now, this is sad to

1452
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: see in any human being. But what has been done,

1453
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: the lies and the cover up here to the American people,

1454
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: is an absolute disgrace.

1455
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 3: Oh, it is a disgrace.

1456
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 2: And you know, I kept saying that Feinstein herself is

1457
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 2: a disgrace, but others are pointing out now at this point,

1458
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 2: she really may be so far gone that she has

1459
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: no limited ability over her faculties and is so it's

1460
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 2: at that level where she has no probable understanding of

1461
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: how bad her situation is. So she just doesn't know

1462
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 2: now at this ry right, at some point she did

1463
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 2: certainly make a decision, and I do think that the

1464
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 2: ultimate authority lands with her, But now at this point

1465
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 2: it lands with her family, and it lands with her staff.

1466
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 3: I mean, at the very least with the staff.

1467
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 2: It's like, you need to just be very honest in

1468
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 2: these types of situations and be like, look, she can't

1469
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 2: do the job.

1470
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 3: It's just not gonna work.

1471
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 2: And they should have done that in twenty nineteen pre COVID.

1472
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it's been over four years now of inauthentic

1473
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 2: representation for forty million people from the state of California,

1474
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,759
Speaker 2: which is the ultimate disgrace. She's eighty nine years old,

1475
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 2: She's got two hundred million dollars in the bank. She

1476
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:29,480
Speaker 2: could retire peacefully with her grandchildren and family in a beautiful,

1477
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 2: you know, mansion and NAPA. That's all anybody's asking here, right,

1478
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 2: That's all we're asking you that you give up, which

1479
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 2: is what most people would dream for in their retirement,

1480
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: and yet refuses to stop clinging to power. And now

1481
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 2: maybe at that point where she's angry, you know, and

1482
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: I think that you can actually kind of see that

1483
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 2: in some of her commentary where she wants to fight

1484
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 2: back with a press. She hates any suggestion that she

1485
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 2: should go or any of that. And at this point,

1486
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got to have somebody responsible step in

1487
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 2: and call on her to resign, and nobody will do so.

1488
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: Rocanna got so much heat for doing it. I mean,

1489
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsen needs to come out and just be like, look,

1490
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: I'm governor. I can barely get anything done with this woman.

1491
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 2: Like this is just not gonna work. I can't do

1492
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 2: it anymore. But he can't do it because of identity politics.

1493
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 2: What happened immediately, They suggested that Rocana was anti feminist,

1494
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 2: anti woman for suggesting that he's like, would you say

1495
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 2: the same thing about a woman? Yeah, I venture to say, yes,

1496
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 2: actually I do, especially for somebody who is this far gone.

1497
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,960
Speaker 2: She's almost ninety years old. People, she's been in declining

1498
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 2: health now for four years. I mean, I said this

1499
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 2: in our last show, but the queen looked better two

1500
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 2: days before she died than finds I did.

1501
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 3: A queen could walk.

1502
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 2: You know, this is craziness whenever you're looking at her.

1503
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 3: I was shocked.

1504
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 2: We were on the editorial call when you were gone

1505
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: when that photo come out, and I literally yelled out

1506
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 2: the producers can I said, you guys aren't gonna believe this,

1507
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 2: and I sent them photo and we were.

1508
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,680
Speaker 3: All like, oh my god, wow at what she what

1509
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 3: she and I'm not don't deceive you.

1510
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: Rogue got a lot of heat for what he said,

1511
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 1: which she said the right thing and the obvious thing

1512
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: that everyone by the way, yeah, everyone else on Capitol

1513
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: Hill has been thinking for years, not for days, months, weeks,

1514
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: for years, they've been thinking this, he actually said. And

1515
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,520
Speaker 1: he gets smeared as being sexist. I know, Ken Clippinstein

1516
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: got a lot of heat for putting the staffers on blasts,

1517
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,440
Speaker 1: but you don't want these senior level staffers in particular.

1518
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: Come on, no one elected you, no one voted for

1519
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: you to be making these decisions and put in this

1520
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: position of power you are, first of all, I mean,

1521
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: what you're doing to her is egregious in and of itself, because,

1522
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: like you said, I think at this point she's too

1523
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: far gone to even know how bad things are. But

1524
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: the lies that you're perpetrating on the American puplist that

1525
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: is shameful. That is truly disgraceful. And guess what, there

1526
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: are a lot of jobs on Capitol Hill. You can

1527
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 1: get another job. Okay, It's going to be all right.

1528
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, justice for Ken. Hashtag justice for Ken on

1529
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: this as well, because I think he pointed out an

1530
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: important piece and I think he's sort of forced to

1531
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 1: handle some of the media to report more on the

1532
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: dynam that are going on here behind the scenes.

1533
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 4: And it just makes you wonder.

1534
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: With this incredibly aged group of senators in particular, but

1535
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: legislators in.

1536
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 4: General, who else, what else are they hiding? What else

1537
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 4: do we not know? About these people and the way

1538
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 4: that DC.

1539
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 1: Runs, because apparently this was an open secret for years,

1540
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: and Nancy Pelosi will still get up there and lie

1541
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: to our faces that, you know, things are just fun

1542
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't pressure her to retire because of.

1543
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 2: Sexist This is a repoken problem too. There was a

1544
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 2: guy Thad Cochrane. He had dementia and he very clearly

1545
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 2: was on his way out for years before he eventually

1546
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 2: did retire.

1547
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 3: I mean, he did the honorable thing, and he did

1548
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 3: retire at the end of the.

1549
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 4: Day after somebody finally reported off, after.

1550
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 2: People reported yeah on it, and people and even some

1551
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 2: of his staff were like, hey, man, like you gotta go,

1552
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 2: like it's just not working on and he said, okay,

1553
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:48,560
Speaker 2: all right, I'll finally relinquish it. But a lot of

1554
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 2: these guys, I mean, they just are so power hungry

1555
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 2: that they refuse to let go. So yeah, I really

1556
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 2: do vacillate it. As to how much responsibility lies in

1557
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 2: her hands.

1558
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 3: I think it's probably twenty.

1559
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 2: Nineteen, right on that edge where she had to have

1560
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 2: the level of self knowledge at that point when she

1561
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, right, when.

1562
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 3: She was right, when she was right for reelection running

1563
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 3: for re election.

1564
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 2: You should have had the level of knowledge to say,

1565
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 2: I'm at the end of my rope, I'm old, my

1566
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: husband is in declining health, it's time to go.

1567
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 3: And she made the decision to stay.

1568
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 2: Then it's also shameful that the people around her decided

1569
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 2: to proper up. Yeah, she's not a king, you know,

1570
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 2: she's an elected official. Yeah, you expect this behavior in

1571
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 2: the courts of Europe. You don't expect it from an

1572
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 2: elected politician.

1573
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 1: And Obama and Pelosi and co. Rescued her in that

1574
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: last reelect because the California Democratic Party had endorsed another

1575
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: candidate who had a very decent shot of unseating her

1576
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 1: and probably would have prevailed if the national Democrats, led

1577
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 1: by Obama hadn't swooped.

1578
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 4: In to her rescue. And now here we are.

1579
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 1: So we have a new contribution to the discourse over

1580
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: the CNN Trump town hall that we wanted to cover

1581
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: for you. This one is from John Stuart got and

1582
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:05,719
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. He says, dear TV,

1583
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 1: the problem with the Trump town hall wasn't platforming or

1584
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: a fragile, siloed audience unable to be exposed to news

1585
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: where the opinion's antithetical to their own. The problem was

1586
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: an event that was clearly negotiated to Trump's approval, an

1587
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: ode to access. We promised good, sir, we are no

1588
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 1: longer fake news and enemy of the people.

1589
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 4: Let us prove it to you. We are fair and good,

1590
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 4: and we'll do this however you would like, just come back.

1591
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 1: I learned nothing from this town hall, he says about

1592
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 1: Trump and his most ardent supporters that I haven't known

1593
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: since twenty sixteen. I learned a lot about CNN, I

1594
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: have to say, Sager, I was a little surprised by

1595
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: how much of a freak out there was just over

1596
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: the idea of even having the town hall. I think

1597
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you could say about the

1598
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: way that it was conducted. I think, you know, the

1599
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: questions were questions that CNN's liberal audience wanted to hear,

1600
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 1: some of which needed to be asked, but which you

1601
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 1: were not going to get anything new. So the amount,

1602
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: and I think that point Stewart makes here is really apt,

1603
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: the amount that you were going to gain from those

1604
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: particular lines of questions. You knew that you weren't going

1605
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: to get him to admit that the twenty twenty election

1606
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: wasn't rigged. You knew generally what he was going to

1607
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: say about Egen Carol though that was newsy. You had

1608
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 1: to get his reaction to that, right, But the fact

1609
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: that they spent so much of their time on those

1610
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 1: topics that you knew you weren't going to gain any

1611
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: ground on that. You also know that listen, you may

1612
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 1: want it to be otherwise, the Republican base doesn't care.

1613
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 1: And actually they liked his response and they like where

1614
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 1: he stands. To me, that was the wasted opportunity and

1615
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: the place for critique of the way the town hall

1616
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: was conducted. The idea of, oh, you can't platform the

1617
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: former president who was very likely to be the Republican nominee. Again,

1618
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: I just I will never understand that line of thinking whatsoever.

1619
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually Tara Pelmieri had some great insight from

1620
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 2: an audience member. Let's gohea and put this up there

1621
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 2: on the screen from Puck News inside the Trump CNN Thunderdome.

1622
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: So apparently the audience was actually told you're not allowed

1623
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,799
Speaker 2: to blue boo, but you can applaud, you can cheer,

1624
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 2: which is definitely pretty weird. Yeah, because what she points

1625
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: out is that there were some people who were in

1626
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 2: the audience who definitely were not on board the Trump train,

1627
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 2: who were cringing. Now, don't get us wrong, like many

1628
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: people in the audience did love Trump and were cheering

1629
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 2: at some of the things that he were saying.

1630
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 3: But it's very odd that they were basically.

1631
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 2: Told you can only have positive It's like a positive

1632
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 2: ViBe's only side, except it's at a political event.

1633
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 3: That one is very odd.

1634
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 2: CNN claims that they had no that they agreed to

1635
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 2: no terms from Trump. I'm just I'm not so sure

1636
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 2: it's true, and I think also I'm not sure if

1637
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 2: you were aware, Crystal, they were supposed to go for

1638
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 2: ninety minutes. They actually cut it short at seventy minutes

1639
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 2: of broadcast, which is insane.

1640
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:53,599
Speaker 3: Who does that.

1641
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: When you have the foreign president put Usually you wait

1642
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 2: until the guy cuts you off and then you're willing

1643
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 2: to go. Clearly, the producers in the room were like,

1644
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 2: this is a disaster, this is not working out for

1645
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 2: us well at all, and they pulled out from the event.

1646
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, though I necessarily agree with John in

1647
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 2: terms of I learned nothing from this town hall about Trump,

1648
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 2: So I think CNN and Kaitln spent way too long

1649
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 2: on stop the Steal and on Egene Carroll's actually twenty

1650
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 2: five minutes by my account.

1651
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,440
Speaker 3: That said, it's still as important politically.

1652
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 2: We did get an answer on the debt ceiling, which

1653
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 2: is crazy.

1654
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:25,719
Speaker 3: Trump they spent.

1655
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 2: A crazy amount of money while he was president taxes

1656
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 2: for corporations and ballooned the deficit. Says we've been spending

1657
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 2: too much money, Like really, because he cut taxes quite

1658
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:37,759
Speaker 2: a bit while you're in office. That seems pretty odd. Also,

1659
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 2: this is a criticism I think of the moderator. Somebody

1660
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 2: who actually knows anything about policy would have been like,

1661
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? You ballooned the deficit by

1662
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 2: x amount while you were president. That's probably a good

1663
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 2: follow up question. Second, on abortion, so I'm not sure

1664
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,480
Speaker 2: if he saw his abortion answer. It was the most insane,

1665
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 2: all over the place answer that I have ever seen

1666
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: him give. He's like, well, I was honored to do it,

1667
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 2: but I belie even the exceptions, the three exceptions, and

1668
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 2: also the Democrats are radical. And you're like, what, what,

1669
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,760
Speaker 2: so are you proud of it or are you defending it?

1670
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 3: Do you agree with a ban or not? And he's

1671
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 3: like well, we'll see.

1672
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 2: I don't know the particulars. Everybody's got an answer. He

1673
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,759
Speaker 2: is twisting himself in enoughs.

1674
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was horrible.

1675
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 2: It was a horrible answer, of which politically will be

1676
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 2: a disaster for him. And then finally on Ukraine. I mean,

1677
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 2: the Ukraine answer was incredibly important, the first time he's

1678
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: really said it in a CNN type setting and clearly,

1679
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 2: you know, showing his belief around negotiation and diplomas. To

1680
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 2: the point is is that I actually think we did

1681
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 2: learn quite a bit politically. Also, I'm talking about this

1682
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 2: in my monologue, so preview. One of the dumbest reasons

1683
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: to say that platforming him was bad is that there

1684
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 2: is ample evidence to state that platforming him is the

1685
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: best thing you can do if you want.

1686
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 3: Him to lose.

1687
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 2: Like this, the abortion answer, they will be clipping. I

1688
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 2: was honored to overturn Roe versus Wade and play it

1689
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 2: in every battleground state on repeat from now until election day.

1690
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they should same with the stop the Steel answer.

1691
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 3: He's crazy. He actually believes it.

1692
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 2: So that's why I think, Look, politically it was good

1693
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 2: for the Democrats and media wise. Yeah, man, I mean,

1694
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 2: when you interview Trump, Like, sure, he's a loose cannon,

1695
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 2: you can't treat him, you know whatever, in the same way,

1696
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 2: But democratically, I didn't see any problem with you.

1697
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: I also think there's a lot of cope around why

1698
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: from Democrats, yes, around why Trump won in twenty sixteen,

1699
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: And one of the lines of cope is the media

1700
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: gave him too much attention, and that ignores like, oh,

1701
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 1: and the Democrats ran a horrendous candidate that they rigged

1702
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 1: the primary to make sure that they got, who ran

1703
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: a horrendous campaign, who didn't even like really campaign and

1704
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: certainly didn't campaign effectively in the you know, the blue

1705
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 1: wall states, in the industrial Midwest, who was seen as

1706
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: being totally out of touch.

1707
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 4: All of those like.

1708
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 1: That just gets totally swept under the rug, and it's like, well,

1709
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 1: they shouldn't have just they shouldn't have covered Trump so

1710
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,680
Speaker 1: much and taken his rally so much. And look, I'm

1711
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:05,600
Speaker 1: sure there's a lot of critique of the media in

1712
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. I'm not saying that they got it all right,

1713
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:09,640
Speaker 1: But I also think that a lot of that is

1714
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: cope for some of the rot in the Democratic Party

1715
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: that contributed to that loss. That they've never wanted to

1716
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: deal with, and so now their response to Trump isn't okay,

1717
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: here's an effective way to combat him. Here's some of

1718
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,679
Speaker 1: his insanity that is going to really turn people off.

1719
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 4: It's like, let's just.

1720
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: Pretend he's not there. It's like, guys were way pa

1721
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: at that point. This man was president of the United States.

1722
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: This man is way up in the polls. There is

1723
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: no chance that we can just like pretend he doesn't

1724
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 1: exist and hope that he goes away.

1725
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 4: It's just not going to work.

1726
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 1: Clearly, the Biden campaign at least agrees with your assessment,

1727
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 1: Sager that the more that Trump is the center of

1728
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,679
Speaker 1: attention and the more Biden is not the center of attention,

1729
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: the better that is for them. That is the formula

1730
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 1: that they want. And so, in a sense, CNN did

1731
01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 1: with this exactly what the Biden campaign would want them

1732
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: to do, which is to put on display, you know,

1733
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 1: the worst of the Trump insanity.

1734
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 3: Trump.

1735
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 2: Biden had a great tweet afterwards, not saying he tweeted it.

1736
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 2: He was just like the campaign tweeted out, It's simple, folks,

1737
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 2: you want four more years of that?

1738
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 3: If not join me at Joe Biden Dot com I

1739
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 3: was like, Eh, that's a great answer. It's like drama

1740
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 3: not drama. Now.

1741
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of criticisms of Biden and

1742
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 2: all that. I still think he has a lot of problems.

1743
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:26,799
Speaker 2: And if you ran a policy focus and anti Trump campaign,

1744
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 2: that sounds better. But they've decided to go only in

1745
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 2: one direction. Okay, that's you know, their perilous thing. That said, though,

1746
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 2: something that drives me nuts exactly about the analysis is

1747
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 2: where do the voters factor in here? CNN showing an

1748
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 2: empty Trump podium didn't cause sixty five million people to

1749
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 2: pull a lever for Trump. It's multifaceted. And Caitline actually

1750
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 2: said something was drove me insane. She said, you cannot

1751
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,679
Speaker 2: say that on our air, mister president. And I remember

1752
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 2: being like, really, did somebody elect the CNN like a

1753
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 2: CNN now more important than the president of the United States.

1754
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: It's like, who are you to say you cannot say

1755
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 2: that on our air, as if it's like the sacred

1756
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 2: air of CNN. Never seen any lies on the CNN

1757
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 2: platform before they all feel this way.

1758
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 3: I have a clip of Stephanie Rule.

1759
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 2: I've been playing my monologue, which just shows you the

1760
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 2: same thing about We're not going to talk about it

1761
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 2: at all. Nobody liked you people. You're just as sanctimonious

1762
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 2: and annoying as everybody else. In fact, you deserve each other.

1763
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 3: And that's why Trump went to CNN in the first place.

1764
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 2: He wanted to jab Fox, and he wanted to go

1765
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 2: on the network and show that he could own them

1766
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: on their territory.

1767
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 3: And he won.

1768
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 2: I mean, the MAGA people loved that town hall. It

1769
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 2: was the best thing that has happened for them. So

1770
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody won from that. CNN got three

1771
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 2: million people to actually watch their crappy network, MAGA got

1772
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 2: all these moments of Trump owning CNN, and then the

1773
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 2: Biden campaign got all these clips that they can play on.

1774
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 4: I guess Ron DeSantis lost.

1775
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, actually even he only I mentioned one time

1776
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 2: that Trump actually went after him, which was kind of

1777
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 2: interesting too, considering that's a primary, that's another thing.

1778
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 1: But just the fact that the focus is all on travels,

1779
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: that's a loss for the sand I agree.

1780
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 2: That the big failure actually from CNN was not drawing

1781
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 2: more contrast on policy visa DeSantis and trying to trying

1782
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 2: to tease out what the actual differences between the two

1783
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 2: are if we ever get the chance he interview Trump

1784
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 2: or if we can ever line up something, That's one

1785
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 2: of the things I'll be hammering. I'll be like, all right,

1786
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 2: so you said you're going to do this, and Stances

1787
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 2: actually did it, So why shouldn't even believe.

1788
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 3: That you're going to do it.

1789
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 2: I don't think he's ever been asked a question in

1790
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 2: that in that form, and that's because most of the

1791
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 2: people are interview Trump are idiots, or are playing to

1792
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 2: CNN's media calmness about the plane fall audience or another

1793
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 2: as opposed to the actual voters who are making this decision.

1794
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 3: Anyway, I think that's what matters. Else, Crystal, what youre

1795
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 3: going to look at.

1796
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 1: An amazing moment on MSNBC is host Chris Jansing invited

1797
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 1: former twenty twenty presidential contender Hole and Castro to weigh

1798
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: in on the twenty twenty four Democratic primary.

1799
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:46,639
Speaker 4: Didn't quite get.

1800
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 1: What she was expecting from this former Obama cabinet official

1801
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: and card carrying Democratic Establishment member.

1802
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 4: Just take a listen.

1803
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 8: I'm none as confident as a lot of people in Washington,

1804
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 8: and the Democratic establishment seem to be that Joe Biden

1805
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 8: is to do well against Donald Trump are concerning. Yeah,

1806
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's worrisome when you have a

1807
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 8: president that does have a record on the economy and

1808
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 8: other things that folks can be proud of, that he

1809
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 8: could be proud of, and yet you have him polling

1810
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 8: either right about tide in the margin of error with

1811
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 8: Trump or behind Trump in the ABC News Washington Post

1812
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 8: Pole a few days ago. And that's related to concerns

1813
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 8: that Democrats and some independents have with the president and

1814
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 8: something that has been unable to actually assuage the fears

1815
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 8: and the doubts that Democrats have. You cannot ignore the

1816
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,799
Speaker 8: fact that more than half of Democrats in several polls

1817
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 8: over the last year have said that they wanted somebody

1818
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 8: other than Joe Biden to run. And right now, I

1819
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 8: think that the Democratic establishment is sort of trying to

1820
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 8: wipe that away, to sweep that under the rug. I'll

1821
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 8: give you a good example of that. The DNC have

1822
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 8: a lot of respect for him, like a lot of

1823
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 8: the people there, but then deciding that there will be

1824
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 8: no primary, no debate.

1825
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 3: I think they actually need to give Joe.

1826
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,760
Speaker 8: Biden a chance to get out there and to show

1827
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 8: the American people what he can do. Then he can

1828
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:01,840
Speaker 8: run that campaign and you know, be whoever runs in

1829
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 8: the primary, whoever those opponents are, even if it's just

1830
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 8: RFK Junior and Mary Anne Williamson, I don't think that

1831
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,679
Speaker 8: they want to wait until the fall of twenty twenty

1832
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 8: four to have those debates.

1833
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Now, my favorite part of that whole clip is Jansen's

1834
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 1: audible shock adharing Castro articulate the most.

1835
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 4: Basic and obvious facts, but facts that.

1836
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: Rarely if ever make it onto MSNBC's airwaves. His argument is,

1837
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:27,520
Speaker 1: after all, indisputable. First of all, Castro points out diplomatically

1838
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 1: that it is pathetic, given Trump's finality incompetence and criminality,

1839
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 1: that Biden is at best tied with the man. Second,

1840
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: he makes the case that if Democrats are serious about

1841
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 1: actually beating Trump, a man they consider, or at least

1842
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: claim to consider, an existential threat, they better have a

1843
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 1: thoughtful process to assess every available candidate, or at the

1844
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 1: very least to allow Biden to sharpen his skills as

1845
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,719
Speaker 1: best he can before he is up against the former

1846
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 1: president who still appears to fully have his wits about him.

1847
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 1: And finally, Castro points out that the DNC can't just

1848
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,600
Speaker 1: sweep under the rug the fact that a majority Democratic

1849
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:04,880
Speaker 1: voters do in fact want a Joe Biden alternative. By

1850
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:08,200
Speaker 1: the way, even among MSNBC's propaganda fed faithful, it is

1851
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 1: very likely that a majority of their audience agrees fully

1852
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: with Julianne Castro.

1853
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:13,320
Speaker 8: Here.

1854
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: After all, seventy nine percent of Biden's own twenty twenty

1855
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 1: voters want the Democratic Party to hold debates so that

1856
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,520
Speaker 1: they can evaluate their alternatives.

1857
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 4: They actually believe in democracy.

1858
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 1: In fact, it's likely that the prevalence of this view

1859
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 1: gave Castro some level of comfort to bring up a

1860
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 1: point that is obvious to nearly everyone, but somehow unheard

1861
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 1: of in MSNBC green rooms. Both Chris Chansing and JULYI

1862
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:38,480
Speaker 1: and Castro actually bring some interesting history to this exchange.

1863
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: So Chansing, you might recall, was the MSNBC host who

1864
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: famously looked like she was going to openly weep when

1865
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders dominated the Nevada caucuses.

1866
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:47,160
Speaker 4: Remember this moment.

1867
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 9: These, again, are people who work on the strip within

1868
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 9: two and a half miles of the Bellagio, largely people

1869
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 9: of color. Of those, the majority are Latino, and they

1870
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 9: are at least from eyeballing it strongly in favor of

1871
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 9: Bernie Sanders, with Joe Biden coming in second.

1872
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 1: So while Chris does hold herself out as a neutral journalist,

1873
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 1: she has led the mask slip in a particularly obvious

1874
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 1: way about where her loyalties actually lie. Now Houldian Castro

1875
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 1: is also kind of interesting. He's been willing to criticize

1876
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 1: Biden at times, especially on immigration and the border issues

1877
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 1: that are central part of his political identity. But you

1878
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: might also recall that Castro pretty overtly called Biden too

1879
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: old to be president in the last election.

1880
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

1881
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 10: That's a big difference, because Barack Obama's vision was not

1882
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,719
Speaker 10: to leave ten million people uncovered. He wanted every single

1883
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 10: person in this country covered.

1884
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,600
Speaker 3: My plan would do that. Your plan would do not

1885
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:44,360
Speaker 3: have to buy in. They do not have to buy

1886
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 3: you you.

1887
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 5: Just said that.

1888
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 10: You just said that two minutes ago. You just said

1889
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 10: two minutes ago that they would have to buy in.

1890
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 10: You said they would have to buy in and to

1891
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 10: buy in if you qualify. Are you forgetting what you

1892
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 10: said to Maddison being for Are you forgetting you already

1893
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 10: what you said just two minutes ago? I mean I

1894
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 10: can't believe that you said two minutes ago that they

1895
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 10: had to buy in and now you're saying they don't

1896
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 10: have to buy You're forgetting that.

1897
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 4: Looks kind of prescient, doesn't it now?

1898
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:12,559
Speaker 1: To be fair, last time around, Castro's attacks on Biden's age,

1899
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 1: they obviously didn't work. His decline didn't end up being

1900
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 1: a factor in the primary, or at least not a

1901
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 1: significant one in the general election. It's worth remembering that

1902
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 1: because it could end up being a non factor again.

1903
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 1: We should be honest about that. But that's not what

1904
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: the poll suggests today. Because Biden's a few years more

1905
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: infirmed now, American people have had more of an opportunity

1906
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: to assess his fitness, and they have notably found it

1907
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:35,040
Speaker 1: quite lacking. In twenty twenty, Biden basically had the primary

1908
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: wrapped up for him by Cliburn, Obama and co. After

1909
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 1: dismal performances in the first several states, and in the

1910
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 1: general election, he was able to use COVID as an

1911
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 1: excuse to stay off the campaign trail and was able

1912
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: to win based on people's feelings of disgust and exhaustion

1913
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 1: towards the Trump chaos. Now, the landscape this time, it's

1914
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: quite different. His approval rating is already a lot lower.

1915
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: In fact, a recent Axios focus group found that Biden

1916
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: voters were not inclined to give him a pass. Every

1917
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 1: single participant indicated they wanted him to debate, with one

1918
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 1: explaining specifically, quote, I want whoever is representing me as

1919
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 1: president to be able.

1920
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 4: To put together thoughts and cohesive.

1921
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: Arguments without needing flash cards or something notably coming off

1922
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 1: the heels of a rare moment of honesty breaking through

1923
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 1: MSNBC's DNC propaganda. Chris Jansen then decided to cover this

1924
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 1: focus group, but this time she brought on a Biden

1925
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:23,720
Speaker 1: senior aide to make sure she got the answer that

1926
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: she actually wanted. First, listen to how she sets up

1927
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: this conversation. It's amazing.

1928
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 9: There are new questions today about whether President Biden should

1929
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,040
Speaker 9: debate his twenty twenty four Democratic primary challengers, even though

1930
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:37,599
Speaker 9: they barely register in any polls.

1931
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:40,719
Speaker 1: Barely register in the polls. Now that is either complete

1932
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,720
Speaker 1: ignorance or an outright lie. Marian and RFK Junior are

1933
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 1: both polling higher than the vast majority of the GOP contenders,

1934
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: So then Chris has the Axios reporter on to set

1935
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 1: up the focus group and brings in the Biden twenty

1936
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:53,759
Speaker 1: twenty advisor to respond. Let's listen to how the Biden

1937
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 1: aid tries to spin all of this.

1938
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 11: I honestly do not think seam Biden should reconsider on

1939
01:29:58,080 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 11: the debate piece because to the point that you made earlier,

1940
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 11: we have not seen an income at president running for

1941
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 11: reelection having a debate with this major party your pons

1942
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 11: since I think that will blendia.

1943
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 9: To be fair, never had a president of this age,

1944
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 9: and we've never had a president with these kinds of.

1945
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 4: Questions about his age and mental acuity.

1946
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 11: Sure, and I think that's a fair question, and Biden

1947
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:16,240
Speaker 11: has said it's a fair question. But the reality is

1948
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 11: debating people on the same side is actually not going

1949
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 11: to strengthen the candidate. It tends to weekend the candidate.

1950
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 11: When the president, let's be very honest, and we've talked

1951
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,760
Speaker 11: about this on this show and over the past few years,

1952
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,320
Speaker 11: he's actually done a lot for this country in the

1953
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 11: first few years, in his first one hundred days. Right Obviously,

1954
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 11: they are going to be a lot of hold ups

1955
01:30:33,439 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 11: in Congress given their Republican majority right now, but he

1956
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 11: did have a varying sort first two years, and so

1957
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:40,599
Speaker 11: the president is going to prove some of these doubters wrong,

1958
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,080
Speaker 11: get them to restore their confidence and head that they

1959
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 11: did in twenty twenty as he continues to communicate these

1960
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 11: policies and campaign across the country.

1961
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:50,559
Speaker 1: So, first of all, the fact that the process has

1962
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,160
Speaker 1: been undemocratic in the past is no excuse for keeping

1963
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 1: an undemocratic process, especially in an age where this part

1964
01:30:56,240 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party is all on their moral high

1965
01:30:58,200 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 1: horse about descending democracy.

1966
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 4: What a bunch a bs.

1967
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,720
Speaker 1: Second of all, it's just a historical nonsense that primaries

1968
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:07,519
Speaker 1: weaken a candidate. On the contrary, Trump, for the Republicans,

1969
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 1: had quite a rocous primary back in twenty sixteen, you

1970
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:10,559
Speaker 1: may recall, and.

1971
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 4: He won in the general election.

1972
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: Obama and Hillary had a raucus and at times very

1973
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:17,240
Speaker 1: personal primary in two thousand and eight. There is zero

1974
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind that process sharpened Obama and convinced

1975
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:24,519
Speaker 1: Americans that he was in fact ready for primetime and

1976
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 1: to become president of the United States. But even if

1977
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 1: you believe primaries do weaken a candidate, you should still

1978
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: support them if you're trying to combat a tacks on

1979
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 1: democracy by undermining democracy. That path still leads to authoritarianism,

1980
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:40,280
Speaker 1: and it should be rejected. And finally, if you're so

1981
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 1: confident in Biden's accomplishments and his strength as a candidate,

1982
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 1: you should welcome the chance for him to prove to

1983
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:47,560
Speaker 1: the American.

1984
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 4: People just how ready for the job he is. Convince

1985
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 4: us is.

1986
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:55,240
Speaker 1: Actually profoundly sad and distressing for the nation the position

1987
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:57,760
Speaker 1: we find ourselves in right now, two old men that

1988
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: majorities don't want, refusing to subject themselves the basics of

1989
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 1: the democratic process. All I can say is please keep

1990
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 1: the pressure up, because while the DNC may not yield

1991
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 1: and actually host debates, it will at least illuminate to

1992
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 1: some who've been drinking the kool aid just how full

1993
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,920
Speaker 1: of it and fragile the Democratic Party actually is, and

1994
01:32:16,040 --> 01:32:18,600
Speaker 1: lifting the partisan blinders from the eyes of more Americans

1995
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: that is.

1996
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:22,519
Speaker 4: Always a worthy project. Sager. I thought I was pretty surprising,

1997
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 4: Julian Castro, And.

1998
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:26,839
Speaker 2: If you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1999
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,720
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

2000
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 4: All right, Sager, what are you looking at?

2001
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 3: Well?

2002
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:37,200
Speaker 2: As we alluded to, on Thursday show, CNN's decision to

2003
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 2: host Trump for an election town hall with voters isn't

2004
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 2: going down so well for them with Democratic law makers,

2005
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 2: with liberals who watch CNN, and, funnily enough, with the

2006
01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 2: vast majority of.

2007
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:48,880
Speaker 3: CNN's own employees.

2008
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 2: In fact, CNN's decision to host Trump to me indicates

2009
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 2: how systemically broken the entire media is and reveals exactly

2010
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:00,720
Speaker 2: why independent media really has no choice but to be

2011
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,639
Speaker 2: the future of news if you want even a minute

2012
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 2: chance of knowing what's actually going on. For those who

2013
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm talking about, the background is simple.

2014
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,040
Speaker 2: CNN decided to host Trump for the town hall, which

2015
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 2: was full of Republicans. Liberals were outraged by the fact

2016
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 2: that Caitlin Collins basically let him speak at all, and

2017
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,960
Speaker 2: were especially disturbed at the site of Republican voters cheering

2018
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 2: when Trump lashed out at his sexual assault accuser Egene

2019
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 2: Carroll and Caitlyn Collins herself. MSNBC's Joe Scarborough said it's

2020
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 2: the worst thing he's seen on TV since January sixth,

2021
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 2: certainly something, but below the hollow outrage at Trump is

2022
01:33:35,479 --> 01:33:39,440
Speaker 2: a bigger meta question within media itself. The overwhelming consensus

2023
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 2: by the liberal press is that CNN made a mistake

2024
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 2: by hosting Trump, the theory being it was irresponsible in

2025
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:49,320
Speaker 2: the eyes of the media. Simply airing anything the former

2026
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 2: president and likely GOP nominee says is a disservice to democracy.

2027
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,680
Speaker 2: Nobody summed up their view better than Stephanie Rule in

2028
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 2: the opening of her show on MSNBC right after the

2029
01:33:59,280 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 2: town hall ended.

2030
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

2031
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 12: It is not news what happened tonight at eight pm

2032
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:08,160
Speaker 12: on another network, And there is no sense in fact

2033
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 12: checking or replaying the highlights.

2034
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 4: We are not going to analyze the former.

2035
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 12: President of the United States repeating lies, smears.

2036
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 3: And bigotry.

2037
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 12: We have all heard it many many times before. However,

2038
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 12: what we need to do tonight is solve for how

2039
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 12: news organizations will cover Donald J. Trump, the twice impeach indicted,

2040
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:33,720
Speaker 12: liable for sex abuse private citizen, if he does in

2041
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 12: fact win the Republican nomination.

2042
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:39,320
Speaker 2: Sit and internalize what she's saying. It's not news what

2043
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 2: the former president is saying. It wasn't news when he

2044
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,960
Speaker 2: wouldn't disavow stop the steal, and it wasn't news when

2045
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,599
Speaker 2: he said the GOP should default if Biden doesn't negotiate,

2046
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 2: And it wasn't news when he gave the most incoherent

2047
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 2: answer possible on abortion policy, or when he talked about

2048
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,400
Speaker 2: the war in Ukraine. The most insane thing about her

2049
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 2: monologue there is this, the lady is paid to do

2050
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,599
Speaker 2: the news. How can you do the news and run

2051
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 2: a news network and be proud that you're not talking

2052
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,839
Speaker 2: about the news. The crazy part is the vast majority

2053
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:11,879
Speaker 2: of CNN insiders agreed with Stephanie rule over their own network.

2054
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 2: Apparently the vast majority of their insiders employees were horrified

2055
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 2: by their act of journalism, no more.

2056
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,759
Speaker 3: So than their own media reporter Oliver Darcy.

2057
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 2: He quite literally used his own CNN newsletter to go

2058
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:27,559
Speaker 2: after his employer CNN. He writes, quote, it is hard

2059
01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 2: to see how America was served by the spectacle of

2060
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 2: lies aired on CNN Wednesday evening. His contention was a

2061
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 2: democracy was not served because Trump was Trump and he

2062
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:39,720
Speaker 2: was allowed to speak quote without challenge. Here, too, is

2063
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 2: a crazy belief by the media that when you interview

2064
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,799
Speaker 2: a politician, you are supposed to fact check every single

2065
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,400
Speaker 2: thing that comes out of their mouth. Where this insane

2066
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:49,720
Speaker 2: belief came from I have no idea, but to me,

2067
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:52,439
Speaker 2: it is crystallized by something Colin said during this houndhall

2068
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,760
Speaker 2: when Trump was saying the election was stolen, and she

2069
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:57,759
Speaker 2: challenged him to say, quote, you can't say that, mister president.

2070
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 2: What consider what she's saying there? What that type of

2071
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 2: criticism comes from? Who tells the former president what they

2072
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 2: can and cannot say. At the end of the day,

2073
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 2: it's only the voters. I disagree with many things to

2074
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:11,719
Speaker 2: come out of Trump's mouth. I think they are false,

2075
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 2: but I do not have the narcissism of the mainstream

2076
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 2: media to tell him he cannot say it. And I

2077
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:20,360
Speaker 2: carry this philosophy over whenever I interview democratic politicians too.

2078
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone should have anything to do with that.

2079
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 2: If they want to say it, that's their right. It's

2080
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:28,560
Speaker 2: other people's right to evaluate it for themselves. What I

2081
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 2: just described, by the way, is actual democracy. The news

2082
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 2: at its best has the job of contextualizing events and

2083
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 2: informing the public so they can make decisions for themselves.

2084
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 2: But somewhere along the way, it instead became a vehicle

2085
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 2: for telling people what to think instead of helping them

2086
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:45,800
Speaker 2: to do so.

2087
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:47,719
Speaker 3: That's what leads me to this conclusion.

2088
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:50,160
Speaker 2: The internal scene and freak out over their act of

2089
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 2: journalism shows structurally why it cannot serve as a source

2090
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,719
Speaker 2: of news for the broader public. They themselves can only

2091
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 2: stomach to show what serves their side, which in my opinion,

2092
01:37:00,120 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 2: is good.

2093
01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 3: This means independent news is inevitable.

2094
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:06,840
Speaker 2: Consider this, all Americans really want out of the news

2095
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:10,240
Speaker 2: is to find out what's going on, then maybe a

2096
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 2: little context without the flavor of telling you how to think.

2097
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:15,519
Speaker 2: Do not mistake that with people like us, who will

2098
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:16,920
Speaker 2: tell you what we think.

2099
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:18,080
Speaker 3: Explaining how I.

2100
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 2: Internalize something is very different than telling you to think

2101
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 2: the same as me, And it pops up in how

2102
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:25,880
Speaker 2: interviews must be conducted. Do you know why I have

2103
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 2: so much faith in this style because it is tried

2104
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,599
Speaker 2: and true throughout the long history of our republic. If

2105
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 2: our media had any brains, they would be doing as

2106
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 2: many Trump town halls and interviews as possible. If you

2107
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 2: hate him specifically on stop the Steal and abortion, why

2108
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:42,760
Speaker 2: because we have so much evidence now from the twenty

2109
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 2: twenty two election the two worst issues for Republicans are maga,

2110
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 2: crack pots and abortion. On both counts, Trump revealed he

2111
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 2: sits on the unpopular side of each issue. He clung

2112
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 2: to every single crackpot conspiracy theory on how the election

2113
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 2: was stolen, the same thing his candidates were punished for

2114
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 2: at the ballot box.

2115
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, on abortion, he.

2116
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:07,479
Speaker 2: Both was proud of repealing row and said it should

2117
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:08,519
Speaker 2: be left up to the states.

2118
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:10,639
Speaker 3: Good luck with that one at the ballot box.

2119
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,600
Speaker 2: If the Democrats are smart, they're going to play that

2120
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:14,560
Speaker 2: on Loop twenty four to seven. It puts them on

2121
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:16,720
Speaker 2: the backside of two thirds of the American people from

2122
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:19,639
Speaker 2: the abortion issue. In other words, if liberals really want

2123
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:22,400
Speaker 2: to win, they should elevate Trump as much as possible

2124
01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:24,760
Speaker 2: on the issues that he performs the worst at. In

2125
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 2: other words, they should simply treat Trump the same way

2126
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:32,480
Speaker 2: we treat all politicians, interview them, and then let Americans

2127
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:37,280
Speaker 2: make up their minds for themselves. Most Americans are good people.

2128
01:38:37,479 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 2: They do not like extremism really in any form. Whichever

2129
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 2: side seems the most crazy is usually the one who

2130
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 2: loses at the ballot box, and it's not that complicated.

2131
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:49,639
Speaker 2: The news needs to stop pretending they have more power

2132
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:50,560
Speaker 2: than they actually do.

2133
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:52,600
Speaker 3: At the end of the day. The only people with

2134
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 3: the real.

2135
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 2: Power is you when you vote and you make up

2136
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 2: your own mind. And the more news gets away from that,

2137
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:01,600
Speaker 2: the more that they spell they're inevitable to use. So

2138
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:04,000
Speaker 2: that's really what my takeaway was is, you know, and

2139
01:39:04,200 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 2: I thought it was important to say.

2140
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,080
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue,

2141
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot com.

2142
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:15,639
Speaker 3: Great to have you back, Crystal.

2143
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 2: We have a great show for everybody tomorrow, a big

2144
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 2: show which we will reveal some details tomorrow, the nice

2145
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 2: little surprise about who our guests and all of that

2146
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 2: will be. But anyways, if you can help us and

2147
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,439
Speaker 2: support our work here breakingpoints dot com otherwise, we'll see

2148
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 2: you tomorrow with a big reveal