WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Matt Higgins - How Drones Are Reshaping Modern Warfare & Why America Is Behind 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.080 Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:05.000 personal experience. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.160 I was sixteen when my father passed away. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.600 We didn't have any money. He didn't leave us in 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:14.000 the best shape. My mother single mother, now widow, myself 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:15.880 sixteen trying to figure out how am I going to 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.079 pay for college and lo and behold, my dad had 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.320 one life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot, 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.360 but it was important at the time, and it's why 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.720 I was able to go to college. 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Application times may vary, and the rates themselves 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.920 may vary as well, but trust me, life insurance is 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.759 something you should really think about it, especially if you've 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:39.639 got a growing family. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:43.360 All right. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:45.720 Joining me now is somebody who quite a bit of 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.640 experience in the in the world of startups and business 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.320 and sports, also dabbled. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:55.800 In politics a little bit, and it is I. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.440 Thought it would be an interesting conversation with somebody more 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.720 in the entrepren newer space, given I'm also in my 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:02.760 own entrepreneur space. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:03.920 So it's Matt Haggins. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.040 I hope I've he sort of dabbled in politics at 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.000 a time, working for Rudy Giuliani back when he was 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.080 mayor of New York City, but has mostly been on 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.480 the business side over the last twenty years. But understands 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.280 both sides of the street, and I kind of want 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.120 to get a better understanding with the business community how 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:28.440 they really view politics necessary, evil or partner in different aspects. Matt, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.000 how'd I do in describing your background? 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.520 Pretty good? I mean that hit the most important points. 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.000 Are you you consider yourself a serial entrepreneur? How do 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.720 you describe your path and business? 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.120 Yeah, I would say I'm a super a serial entrepreneur. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:49.360 I'm a builder, and my building impulses come from childhood. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.600 I grew up abject poverty in Queens, New York. And 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.360 what does that mean. It took care of a disabled parent. 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.040 I would sell flowers on street corners and scrape gum 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.480 tables and McDonald's. Literally, I really grew up with nothing, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.240 and then I had to create my own path to 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.120 get out of poverty. I dropped out of high school 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.400 when I was sixteen, tok gd to go to college 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.959 so I could get a job. So that that faith 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.560 that I could architect my own life then began to 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.320 translate into into just building businesses. And we can go 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:20.480 deeper into any of that, but. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.560 Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm going to start there 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.880 a little bit because I for somewhat different reasons. I also, 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.400 I always say, ended up growing up early. In some ways, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.200 my childhood ended when my dad died at sixteen. And 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.280 you just does right your childhood you didn't sounds like 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.160 you didn't really you didn't have the traditional childhood and 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.840 there and I'm curious, as you've gotten more resources where there, 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.440 how you've scratched that itch. And I'll get to that 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:49.840 in a minute. But that is sort of what makes 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:51.840 this country. I always say, what makes this country different 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.400 is that there are different paths up the ladder. Yes 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.560 there are. It does feel like there are hers that 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.800 sometimes are bigger than they should be for the average American, 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.440 But it's not impossible to climb over them, right it is. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.240 But I'm curious how you view Do you view your 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.320 success as hey, anybody can do this, or do you 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.320 think you had unique help at certain forks in the road. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.760 Such a great question. The answer is both. I do think. 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.480 I always believe that education and work was my way 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.719 out of poverty, and those two never failed me, so 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:39.120 that's definitely true. I remember as a kid realizing it 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:40.880 was a lot better to be the person who bought 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.600 the flowers and put margin on them, r, I'm the 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.839 kid who knocked on your window. That was like my 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.839 first lesson on capital deployment. I grew up in a 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.640 really poor neighborhood and Queen's but I was also very 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.640 cognizant of the fact that there was a difference between 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.080 being a white kid and a black kid growing up 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.000 in that area. And to this day, I still feel 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.000 and people say, what do you mean, what advantages did 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.800 you have? You grew up with nothing. Your mother literally 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.000 died when you were twenty six, so I was living 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.040 in a roach motel, and I was like, there still 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.800 was an advantage of being a kid who grew up 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.040 in that context, and so I had. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.159 To be totally cynical about this. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.640 You could get a cab a lot easier than a 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:17.839 black man your age. 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:19.800 Well, you know what it was. And I see. The 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.640 good part is I can transcend both sides because I 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:23.400 have a gd that came from nothing. So you can't 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.320 tell me I'm not credible to speak on this topic 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.120 of you know, is there any kind of eyes in 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.520 the world if you back when I was growing up, 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.360 if you had a kid back then, at least in 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.000 the eighties, a black kid who had a ged maybe 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.320 there would be a degree. It's confirmatory, right, Lots of 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.320 kids and I never had you meet, you know, smiley, 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.560 little white kid, you know who's out there hustling and 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.560 he has a GD and you say, oh, what happened? 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.000 So I talk about that in my book like that 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.840 is that is a difference. Does that mean you can't overcome? 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:52.400 But of course not. I also have my own things 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.160 to overcome. I had a mother who's completely not equipped 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.159 to take care of kids, sadly, and she died rotting 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.240 in a chair. We had no health insurance, right, so 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.919 I had to overcome the absence of health insurance and 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.960 the trauma of raising a parent. So and then other 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.640 kids had to overcome the color of their skin. And 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.200 so I don't think any it doesn't you know, that's 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.240 we're in a funny time. It doesn't invalidate anybody's journey 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.440 to say that you had some type of built in advantage, you. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.000 Know, so well, it goes actually the other way. It's funny. 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.039 It's like it doesn't matter whether it's somebody who's a 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:29.960 scholarship football player on college team or somebody. We are 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:34.480 almost we have convinced ourselves we all have to tap 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.839 into a her radio Alger story or we don't have 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.640 a story to share. And I don't know whether I 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.240 Sometimes I think I worry that it almost encourages victimhood. 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.960 That's so funny you said that. I say. I get 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.159 asked this question recently. Somebody said a teacher at Harvard 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.800 Business School, and they were saying, oh, when you get resumes, now, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.240 are you like, you know, you throw away those kids 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.599 from those elite schools because you only look at the 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.080 kids from who are dog Downtrod? And I said, no, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.320 that's not true at all. Actually, I have a greater 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.799 appreciation for what it would actually take to go to Harvard. 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.239 Number one. Number two, I have a built in excuse 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.120 why I didn't go to Harvard. I was working and 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:12.800 taking care of my mom for seven years going to 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.160 Queen's College. But could I really gotten into Harvard even 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.679 if I didn't have the circumstances. So I agree everyone 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.000 now has to have this, you know, come up and 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.160 story of transcendence, and I think, honestly a lot of 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.600 people make it up or amplify it, but it does 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.920 create this culture of victimhood, and I completely reject it. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.320 The reality is if I didn't grow up in that circumstance. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.400 There is zero chance that I would end up going 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:41.240 from sixteen, you know, and Julian's secretary of twenty six. 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:43.400 And I, you know, it's funny I say that. It's 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.480 like it's it is. It is true. It's sort of like. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:53.560 Sometimes you see this with super successfully ambitious people where 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.840 in some ways they needed chase something, you know, in politics. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.560 I always say, it's fascinating to me how many presidents 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:03.960 we've had that have had daddy issues. And I say 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.400 this with no disrespect to anybody. I have my own. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:08.880 I my dad died. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:13.440 At sixteen when I'm constantly trying to to help live 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.200 the life that he should have had, and he never 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.040 got to live. And he had a variety and there's 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.560 a variety of reasons for that. And I've watched all 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.440 these presidents, but there's something about if you don't have 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.239 that drive, maybe you don't run for president. 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.880 George W. Bush or Donald Trump or Barack Obama. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.920 But if you look at our particularly the last five presidents, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.800 they've all had some form either they were looking, you know, 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.200 searching for the father figure they never had. See Bill Clinton, 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.520 see Barack Obama, or they were trying to prove something 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.520 to a father figure, right see Donald Trump, see George W. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:44.199 Bush. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.800 Arguably even you see it a little bit in Joe 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:51.360 Biden's story. But it is funny how This is why 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.040 I always say, you know, and I'm gonna guess it 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.520 is hard to imagine an alternative path because. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.560 You know no other path than the one than the 0:08:58.600 --> 0:08:59.640 one you travel, right. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.679 I love the patterns that govern us. I always govern us. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:04.680 I get made fun of a lot because I use 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.079 psychologists a lot in business all the time. Because one 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.000 time I went through one twenty five years ago and 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.400 revealed everything I thought I was hiding was perfectly on 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.400 display to anybody who worked for me or around me. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.160 So I was like, apparently I'm bleeding out in front 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.079 of everyone. But my decisions to this day, you're talking 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.760 about daddy issues, minor mommy issues that nobody helped, you know, 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.559 nobody cared to intervene. And I got to witness what 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.480 powerlessness looks like up front, and that there's no happy endings. 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.280 She died without ever taking a plane, and so I 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.200 have these you know, un boundless empathy that shows up 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.640 for a single love. But he I agree We're all 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:40.560 just little creatures. 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.120 Primitively, what is your Let me ask you this, what 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.320 is it? How has it informed your views of the 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.920 role of government? And where where do you think government 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.080 should be involved in your life? Looking back now, where 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.360 should government have been more involved or less? In law? 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.440 Such a great question. I mean, I take a cynical 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.600 view of both sides because I've been on both sides. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.040 I've been up close. My earliest days. We're working for 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.880 a Democratic Congressman, Gary Ackerman back in Queen's I got 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:08.599 to see what that looked like, and I worked for 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.920 Rudy Giuliani for a while. Then I helped mid Romney's 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.920 campaign and John Mcca. I've been everywhere, and the reality is, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.120 you know when when let's just take on the left, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.920 you know this sort of cynical over promising and then this, 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.760 you know, populous blame somebody for what you're not given. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.480 I as a kid, I was subjected to those feelings too, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.480 like who's wronging me? Why is no one taking care 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.520 of me? And that didn't do me any to be honest. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.160 What did me good was cultivating my belief that I 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.360 have agency, that I can transcend my circumstances, and so 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.680 the answer is where does government belong level the playing field? 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.240 Passionate conservatism is something that has really resonated with me 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:47.559 as I've gotten older, but didn't What. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.240 Do you think that means now? I mean, because I 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.120 don't know what it means. I had an idea of 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.120 what George W. Bush meant by it. But what do 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:54.840 you think compassionate conservatism means? 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.360 I think it begins with empathy of somebody's circumstances and 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.680 trying to figure out a solution that you wish would 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.720 be advocated for if you were in the same position. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.120 And so what does that really mean? We should figure 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.559 out a way that everybody can have health care, because 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.080 you would want that if you were not in that position. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.800 There's nothing wrong though, with requiring people to work and 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.160 work as the path to self respect and self esteem. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.040 That's a good question. I don't know what it means, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.840 but weirdly resonates with me. Is probably closer to the truth, right. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.079 I just remember as a kid when I would be 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.520 sold those empty promises too and trying to point you know, 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.920 who's to blame for my circumscs. They didn't do anything 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.480 for me. What did something for me was work, And 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.280 so I think government's role is leveling the playing field 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.000 and approaching everything with a degree of empathy. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.680 You've been sounds like the last chopped I know. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.800 That's not like I didn't give you no. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:48.680 I mean I get it. I mean I think it's 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:53.400 a fair no. And I think ultimately you know your description. 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.240 I find that to be a fair description. I have 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.439 no you know, I don't feel the need to make 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.280 you follow up, which is, you know, sounds like you 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.680 believe in equal access, not equal outcomes, right, And I 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.640 think that sometimes there is a different I think some 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.560 people want equal outcomes, and that is that gets you 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.040 in one type of redistribution of wealth versus equal access, 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:18.080 equal opportunity, which I think is ultimately probably at the 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.560 core of even what the founders thought they were creating 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.240 here in the United States, right, like this is about 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.880 creating so that you don't have to be related to 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.439 the king or you don't have right you know at 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:34.080 that time, right, you have an equal opportunity versus equal outcome. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.200 And I think that that's always been arguably one of 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.679 the simplest ways to differentiate left and right at times. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.440 And one thing remains true whatever we are in our 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.480 current political climate and what people think, like what's great 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.960 about this country that die is never cast. I love 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.240 the fact that I always say I'm here. I'm here 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.559 in the circumstances I'm in through an accident of birth 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.480 that I didn't make a choice. But I'm really glad 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.240 that nothing about my future is going to be pretty 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.439 determined based upon where I was born. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 I knew one at every single person born in America 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.840 or frankly born in the world. In theory, right, this 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.920 is what the Founders said, right, the life, liberty and 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.600 the pursuit of happiness. In theory, they were saying that 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.520 that all of us, that that's we have the those 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.440 are the inalienable rights that we are born with. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.000 Yeah, and I think we're struggling with where that pendulum 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.640 is right. Where where does leveling the playing field in 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.679 terms of trying to reckon with the past fit in 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.400 with that excluding other people had nothing to do with 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.040 it rights. It's a really I mean, I'm hoping that 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.280 the pendulum comes right back to where it's supposed to be, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.480 which is probably what will happen in the long arc of. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.920 His It always does, right, It always does. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.520 I would say, I'm not sure what period we're in 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.240 and what we're reckoning, to be honest, because there was 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.040 a period in which we had the exclusion with the 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:47.880 other direction, which isn't right answer either. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.800 Well, what's interesting is that in the in the moment 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.720 when we're living through one of these transitional periods, right, 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.200 and I think we're in the middle of a realignment, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.319 and we think every election is an answer to the realignment. Oh, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.120 re alignment so or no, we just don't have another 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.600 election for another two years, right, like we're it just 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.720 because we hold you know, an election happens as a 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.160 main realignment stopped. Right, We're sort of we're in the 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.400 middle of something, and we have been, frankly since the 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.920 end of the Cold War. Right, the country had a 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.480 north star defeating communism in the Soviet Union, Well, then 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.960 we did it. We've actually struggled with our next north star. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.320 And what I find I wrote, I gave a commencement 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.280 of speech at my mom's college from where my mom 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.280 had went the place she had any dignity, and I 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.600 came back and gave gave the speech, and I was 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.440 in my speech I noted that when I was when 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.359 she had when I was there, when she was graduating 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.280 on that you know, same quad, the percentage of people 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.120 that believed in gay marriage was completely flipped. So in 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.480 the time that it took for me to graduate and 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.960 give that speech, you know, a decade. And so I 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.080 always think, I use this metaphor of attacking, you know, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.880 with a boat that doesn't look like it's looking forward progress, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:53.520 But if you were looking down from above, you would 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.000 see it's moving. We are always moving. Our values aren't evolving. 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.640 And then there are these reckonings where the pendulum swings 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.080 violent leave one way or the other. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.760 Way, turning an aircraft carrier, you know, I mean we 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.760 are an aircraft carrier and moving. It takes a long 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.120 time to turn, but watch out when we turn. You know, 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.360 we're a powerful force. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.240 So let's get into the world of business. 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.200 It sounds to me over the last twenty five years, 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.200 the first half of it you spent in politics, the 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:20.160 second half in business. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:21.320 Is that roughly the split? 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.080 Yeah, that's probably right. I mean I started so young, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:25.840 so I've had a degree of a little bit before 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.320 a scum career, because if I started with Giuliani, I 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.840 started as a reporter. Actually a cub reporter in when 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.760 I was seventeen, and then I started Rudy when I 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.200 was maybe twenty, and I became Pressbactoria by twenty six. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.160 So I've been able to lead multiple lives. So I 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.120 was a first employee and one of the first of 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.000 the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site, and then 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.320 I became chief operating officer. So I spent two years 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.480 of ground zero at the age of twenty nine. I 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.280 guess my government career ends. So and I'm fifty, which 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:53.880 I cannot believe. Fifty one. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.960 Yeah, yeah, thought every check engine light's going to go off. Brother, 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:57.720 just trust me. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:59.000 Yeah, I'm feeling it. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.720 Yeah, yeah, because I rarely I don't think I interview 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.880 anybody older than me anymore. It feels like everybody I'm 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:08.320 interviewing any three. Yeah, I know, I'm making you feel 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.920 better a couple of years older than you. So tell 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.520 me on the transition to business. The longer you've been 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:20.200 on the business side, has it, how has it changed 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:21.280 your view of politics? 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.520 Well, when you're in politics. Anybody in politics can relate 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.560 to this when they leave one of these heady jobs, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.640 like when I had to leave being press secretary to 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.720 the mayor, the you know, ground zero. There is this 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.600 fear that you're just not going to be valued the 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.240 same by the society. And then once you step out, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.320 you realize you're in an ecosystem that a lot of 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.440 people are frankly apathetic about. First that bothers you don't 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.800 you realize how important it is to, you know, work 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.760 with the mayor. And I worked all night and I 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.360 showed up to every crisis, and you realize, oh, it's 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.840 because you're trying to feed yourself and you want government 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.880 to exist in the background and you don't want it 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.720 to occupy every minute of your life, which is. 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.600 The theory of I ascribe to the theory of the 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.840 clog toilet that most people view don't want to think 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.240 about government, and then when the toilet's clogged, they don't 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.720 want to think about the plumber until the toilet's clog, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.439 and they really hope they don't have to call the plumber. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.800 That's how most people view government. They just don't, Yeah, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.040 just make sure the toilet. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.680 Plushes I thought that was like, that was unsophisticated and apathetic. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.199 I do you understand how important it is to be 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.040 dialed in? But as I've gotten over, I realized, no, 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:21.639 people just want to take care of the family of 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.359 a degree of peace, which is why I'm sure we 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.800 have collective adrenal fatigue at the moment because you're bombarded 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.000 with politics, you know, every day. 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.320 But yeah, so yeah, go ahead, finish. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.800 No. No, I was making the point that was one 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.639 of the things that was the first transition I had 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.960 to get used to going into is that that people 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.320 didn't care as much as I thought they cared, and 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.639 then as a result, there is a degree of narcissism 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.880 when you're in government that you think there's nothing more important. 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.679 This episode of The Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.000 by Waldgrain. 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