1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: Friends. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: I am always excited to be here with you. 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: Every week we have. 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: Guests that I adore, admire, and am fascinated by. But 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: when I tell you that today, I am almost vibrating 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: out of my own chair because I am so excited 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: about the woman who is here with me. She is 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: an icon, an idol of mine. Her music raised me, 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: her stories have inspired me. She is one of those 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: people who reminds me that courage is contagious. Our guest 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: today is none other than the iconic Melissa Asridge. Melissa 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: is one of rock music's great female icons who happens 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: to have become an icon in rock and roll when 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: there were almost no women playing the guitar. Her popularity 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: was built around incredible songs like bring Me Some Water, 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: No Souvenirs Come to My Window, which is personally one 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: of my favorites in the world. Her fourth album, Yes 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: I Am, earned her a second Grammy, and in the 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: midst of this incredible career, she battled breast cancer publicly 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: and shared her journey with fans, even taking the stage 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: in front of massive audiences completely bald, inspiring people to 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: never give Up. She made her Broadway debut in Green 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: Day's rock opera American Idiot in twenty eleven, the same 25 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: year she happened to receive her star on the Hollywood 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: Walk of Fame, and this year she has launched the 27 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: incredible show My Window on Broadway. I was lucky enough 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: to go and see it opening night in New York 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: and I was positively shaking out of my chair that 30 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: night as well. The play is such a beautiful retrospective 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: of her career. It'll make you cry, it'll make you laugh, 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: it'll make you sing along. And I think the coolest 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard anyone do when launching a Broadway 34 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: show about their life is that she also happened to 35 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: write this show with her wife and her best friend 36 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: and co producer while writing a memoir of her life. 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: Talking to My Angels is her beautifully engrossing and harrowing 38 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: story about her life. It's really a testament to the 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: power of art. It's a touchstone for anyone seeking a 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: path out of darkness, and it is a powerful love 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: letter from Melissa to her family and her fans who 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: have been integral to her journey. I cannot wait to 43 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: ask her one ba Jillian questions about all of these things. 44 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: Let's get to it. I'm going to go ahead and 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: tell everybody at home listening a couple of things that 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: some of them I know read. There were some folks 47 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: after your beautiful show on Broadway my window opened who 48 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: saw some of the things that I said on the 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: carpet that night and were like, oh my. 50 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: God, save I grew up. I'm so obsessed with her. 51 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: I can't believe you got to go. I wish I 52 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 3: was in New York. People are so excited about this 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 3: retrospective of your career. But for all our friends at home, 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: I have to sort of throw myself under the bus 55 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: a little bit. The first night that I met Melissa 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: was last year at Elton John's Big Beautiful fundraiser around 57 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: the Oscars. He raises money for the Elton John Aids Foundation. 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 3: And I was walking in and I turned around and 59 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: I saw you on the carpet, and they all at home. 60 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: I just never had this happen to me before. I 61 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: got so excited. I started crying and I was like, 62 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, this is really awkward. 63 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: I love you, and I grew up listening to your 64 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: music on repeat, like to the point that my parents 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 3: were like, the album is. 66 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: So good, but maybe listen to something else in the house. 67 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: And you know that was yes, I am you know, 68 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: as an eighties baby, the early nineties was my moment 69 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: to discover my own musical taste. And Melissa, you were 70 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: so gracious and sweet. You gave me a hug, you 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: told me everything was fine house, Like, I don't know 72 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: what's happening to me and here we are. 73 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 3: So thank you for humoring me for a real long 74 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: conversation today. 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 4: Very sweet. Those things can be so strange, and that 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: was very very sweet. 77 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: Wow, you were just so lovely and it was such 78 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: a special night. And yeah, I always love when I 79 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: get to meet people I really admire who are likewise 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: passionate about using their big, beautiful platforms for good causes 81 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: and you know, doing. 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: Good in the world. And that's really. 83 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: Been something that I think you've done for so long. 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 4: Well, it's it's the more you are in this indie, 85 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 4: the more you have what others might you know, think 86 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 4: of as success or something, the more you realize that 87 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: the real joy is not in Oh I got this. 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 4: I got that the real joy is all I was 89 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 4: able to experience this and this feels good and you 90 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 4: just go to what feels good. So you'll you're you're 91 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 4: on that path and you'll you'll just be keeping you know, 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 4: keep doing that. 93 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: Oh that's so kind. 94 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: I love to ask folks who joined me on the 95 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: show because we get to talk to so many people 96 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: who have these illustrious careers and who are. 97 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: Doing such cool things in the world. 98 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: I always like to take someone who we can all 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: look at and go, wow, they're you know, a musician, 100 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: an activist, a leader, so outspoken, all these things, and 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: ask how similar you were as a kid? 102 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 2: Like do you? 103 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: And I feel like I have a little inside scoop 104 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: because I got to watch the show and it's such 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: a beautiful retrospective. But for the folks who haven't been 106 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: lucky enough to see. 107 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: It, were you or can you? 108 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: I guess from this vantage point, look back at who 109 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: Melissa was at you know, eight or nine years old, 110 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: and see traces of this same woman. 111 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, you're always the same you, even 112 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 4: though it constantly evolves and changes, you always have that 113 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 4: same inner being, that same inner child, young woman, whatever 114 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 4: it is, it's still the same heart. And you know, 115 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 4: I had a dream I back in the sixties. I 116 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 4: grew up in the sixties and just the the music, 117 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 4: the idea entertainment was becoming. The big thing back then 118 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 4: was you know, music and then rock and roll and 119 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 4: and it was so powerful that I dared to dream, Oh, 120 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 4: I want to I want some of that. And that's 121 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: still is inside me. It definitely. You know, the world changes, 122 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 4: everything changes, and what it looks like now, you know, 123 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 4: fifty years later, there's a lot it's a lot different, 124 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 4: but it's still that same dream. It's still that same 125 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 4: reaching for something. And that's a beautiful thing to have, 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 4: is to really look and go, oh, I want to 127 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 4: be there. 128 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. And when you hear something new, I mean the 129 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: budding sounds of that era that can move you, you know, 130 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: move your spirit and you go, oh a human made that, 131 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: like a person made all those sounds. 132 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: And now I'm. 133 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: Feeling feelings through a radio. 134 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 135 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: Will you tell people what the first song was that 136 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: really shook you up? 137 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 4: Well? In the show, I talk about about how I 138 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 4: was about three years old and I was in my 139 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 4: neighbor's driveway. All the kids were you know, it's the 140 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 4: sixties and they just let children run wild. We were 141 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 4: all over the neighborhood and I was just standing there 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: and some kid handed me a transistor radio and I heard, 143 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 4: you know, the Beatles. I want to hold your hand, 144 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,239 Speaker 4: it was, And I remember I had a very distinct 145 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 4: memory of hearing that, thinking the sound of those harmonies 146 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: in that you know that that whole thing just was 147 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 4: like nothing I'd ever heard it. And it it's hard 148 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 4: to explain how the Beatles sounded back to how nothing 149 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 4: had sounded like that before and causing that Beatlemania, causing 150 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 4: the sound and the look was was just you know, 151 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 4: transformative to everybody back then. And and that got me 152 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 4: totally interested in My sister had their albums. My parents 153 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 4: had other great album His mom was and the papa's 154 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 4: Simon Garfunkel, you know a great soul singers, Aretha Franklin, 155 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: and they just had a great album collection. My sister, 156 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 4: who was older, had had kind of a rock and 157 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 4: roll collection. So I grew up with all that and 158 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 4: and it just it was it was thrilling, just through. 159 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: That's so cool. 160 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: And so as you grow up in this amazing era 161 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: and you know, rock and rolls hitting the scene and 162 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: music is changing, how how does the story move through 163 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: you realizing this was such a passion in your life 164 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: and and then breaking into the music industry. I mean, 165 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: were was your family supportive of the dream? Did people 166 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: think it was a pipe dream? Were there pitfalls along 167 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: the way because it's it's such a good story. 168 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 4: Well, the I I beg my parents for a guitar. 169 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: I was crazy about the Archies actually, the the there 170 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 4: was a well everyone knows the Archies now because there's 171 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 4: like Riverdale and all those things. Yeah, and the Archies 172 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 4: when I was a kid was just so cool. It 173 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 4: was all the high school kids, you know, playing and 174 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 4: I was like, wow, I want to do that. And 175 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 4: so I started playing at the age of eight, and 176 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 4: of course they said I couldn't they They got the 177 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 4: guitar actually for my sister, which really broke my heart. 178 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 4: When I bagged and bagged, they finally said, well, all right, 179 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 4: put your fingers are bleak, And yeah, my fingers bled 180 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 4: But I started playing and and it was My teacher 181 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 4: was very, very stern, but he was serious and good. 182 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 4: And I practiced my lessons and came in every day 183 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 4: and learned and learned. And when I learned chords, this 184 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 4: is now this is the end of the sixties, this 185 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 4: is early seventies, and I'm I'm playing chords, and I realized, wow, 186 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: that's a song. And now we're in the We're in 187 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 4: the kind of the folk music of the sixties early seventies, 188 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 4: and it's all you know, even girls, you know, playing 189 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 4: guitars and singing. That's happening. So I'm feeling, wow, I 190 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 4: can do this, and I start making up songs. You know, 191 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 4: I was twelve years old. I didn't know anything, you know, 192 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 4: but I was copying, you know, what I'd heard and 193 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 4: trying to put my own spin on it. And a 194 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: lot in the show, I say, you know, I used 195 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 4: to write these really dramatic, sad songs, you know, about 196 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 4: their story songs, and my friends would all cry, and 197 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 4: how much I loved that I was getting an emotional 198 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 4: response from something I created. So that was the beginning 199 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: of that. And then actually having the opportunity to play 200 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 4: in bands when I was younger, through the talent show 201 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 4: that I entered, and he made a variety show and 202 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 4: then there's a band there and I it just it's 203 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 4: just one step at a time. It just happens, one 204 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 4: thing after another, very small steps, but they all, you know, 205 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 4: end up with me as a teenager on the weekend 206 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 4: singing in professional cover bands all over the Midwest. And 207 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 4: that was a great opportunity because I got to be 208 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 4: comfortable in front of people. I learned other instruments, I 209 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 4: learned how to perform on stage. Frankly, I don't I 210 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 4: feel sorry for a lot of artists today that sort 211 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 4: of are in their late teens or early twenties and 212 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 4: all they've ever done is make music in their bedroom 213 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 4: on their computer, you know, and then all of a sudden, okay, 214 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: go perform to twenty thousand people, and they know they're 215 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 4: scared to death. They've never done it. I was able to, 216 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 4: you know, perform to ten people, to twenty to you know, 217 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 4: fifty in a room, to drunk people to I've had 218 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 4: all kinds of things happen. So I feel very safe 219 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 4: on stage, and it leads to being able to be 220 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 4: a good performer. 221 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, that's so interesting that that you do have 222 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: to find your confidence to make your art in front 223 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: of other humans, regardless of what those other humans are doing. 224 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, you have to not take it personally. That's 225 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 4: the man. You There's a story my wife as a 226 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 4: whole other, very interesting life. And she used to actually 227 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,599 Speaker 4: in the eighties she was a chauffeur driver. She was 228 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 4: a limo driver and she drove Liza Minelli Wow and yeah, 229 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 4: and which she has incredible stories about that. But she 230 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 4: has this one story about when Liza played Carnegie Hall. 231 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 4: How and this is about taking it personally. How the 232 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 4: whole place stood on their feet to give her a 233 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 4: standing ovation because there was that one guy in the 234 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 4: back that didn't and she obsessed about that guy and 235 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 4: how he didn't stand up. And later after the show 236 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 4: she sees that guy in his wheelchair leaving and she's like, 237 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 4: oh my god, I was I was suffering and taking 238 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 4: a personally that for some reason, you didn't like me. 239 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 4: So you never know. So you can't be on stage 240 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 4: looking at an audience and then taking personally what they're 241 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 4: giving you. You have to say, I'm doing this. It's 242 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 4: going one way and I don't need anything from you. 243 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 4: I hope you appreciate this, but this is my art. 244 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: It takes a night after it takes a year after 245 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 4: year after year of doing it to really not take 246 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 4: it personally. 247 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Wow, you had to bolster that confidence. I just saw 248 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: this cool video of Brene Brown talking about how if 249 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: you walk around in the world looking for proof that 250 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: you're not enough, you'll find it. You get to prove 251 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: whatever story you tell yourself. 252 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, but to. 253 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: Learn to stand in your confidence and in your light, 254 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: I think is hard. It's much harder, you know, done 255 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: than said. 256 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 4: That's just week after week, month after month, just doing it. 257 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 4: You can't get it wrong. You'll have ups downs, you 258 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 4: can't get wrong because it you will always have another chance. 259 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: You go, Okay, maybe I took it off the rails 260 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 4: this time, but I can really try next time and 261 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 4: learn from it. And that's all. We're just learning. We're 262 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 4: not here to get it perfect. Nobody's getting it perfect. 263 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 4: We're just learning. It's fun in the learning. 264 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: Did it feel a little bit like that, you know, 265 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: when you left Kansas and you moved to Boston for 266 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: college and then quickly realized you just wanted to be 267 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: playing music and not really doing the school part? Was 268 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: that part of finding your footing and your confidence too, 269 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: to say, oh, I really want to commit to what 270 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: it is I know I want to do and maybe 271 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: I don't have to do this more traditional path. Was 272 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: it scary or did it just sort of happen and 273 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: did you not have to think about it? 274 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 4: Well? I didn't. I didn't like letting my parents down. 275 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 4: I remember my mother showing me. She goes come up 276 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 4: and into her room where she had her desk, and 277 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: she was actually the moneymaker in the family, and so 278 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 4: she actually controlled the checkbook and the balances and stuff. 279 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 4: My father was great, he was a teacher. Teachers make 280 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 4: no money. Unfortunately, my mother she called me into her 281 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 4: room and showed me the check she was writing to 282 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 4: the school, which at the time was only like three 283 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: thousand dollars. So this, you know, I college tuitions are 284 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 4: crazy nowadays, but back then it was tight thousand dollars. 285 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 4: And she said, now this is what I'm paying. This 286 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 4: is how much I'm paying. So when you want to 287 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 4: skip class, you remember this. And so when I was there, 288 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 4: and I was really not liking it because one I 289 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 4: was the whole school had maybe ten women in it, 290 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 4: and there was two of us in the guitar. You know, 291 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 4: there's not women. This is nineteen seventy nine women weren't, 292 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: you know, playing guitar. It just wasn't happening, and it 293 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 4: was very difficult to get noticed in the school. And 294 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 4: I remember one of I had started playing in this 295 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 4: restaurant and one of my teachers, one of my professors, 296 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 4: came just you know, just happened to be there in 297 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 4: the in the lounge, sitting and talking. I was like, 298 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, she's going to see me here doing 299 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 4: my thing. And he didn't even recognize it. He didn't 300 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 4: even notice me, didn't didn't notice me from his class. 301 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 4: And I thought, man, I'm just I'm I'm blank there 302 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 4: and I'm getting nothing. And I did quit. I didn't 303 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 4: tell my mom for a while. I just kind of 304 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 4: went until they, you know, until they let her know 305 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 4: that I wasn't showing up and well and and as 306 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 4: my mom eventually said when she was much older, she said, 307 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 4: well everything turned out. Okay. 308 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: I love when you hit that point with your parents 309 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: where you can really be adults together in the room. 310 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh yeah. 311 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: I've really experienced a shift in my relationship with my 312 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: parents and probably the last five years that's just been 313 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: super cool. We'll be back in just a minute, but 314 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: here's a word from our sponsors. I also remember from 315 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: the show you you know you sharing with all of 316 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: us that after this wonderful stint in Boston, you went 317 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: home for a time and that when you well, this 318 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: is going to be a little out of order. Now 319 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: let me let me, let me re ask this question 320 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: now that I can feel my heart rate sewing. So 321 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: surrounding your journey in Boston and figuring out what parts 322 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: of school were for you and what weren't, and and 323 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: what a wild thing to think about how the dynamic 324 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: of you being a woman really affected your position in 325 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: music even as a student. You know that there was 326 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: really this sort of intense withholding over gender of opportunity. 327 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: You you talk about being one of two women even 328 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: studying guitar. Was was the other woman in that class 329 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: with you your roommate or was that a different well 330 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: that was a different gall At school. 331 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, no, my roommate was studying voice. This was 332 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 4: just just as far as guitar. They just and I 333 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 4: would venture to say, they still don't take women guitar 334 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 4: players seriously. It's just it is like the last stranglehold 335 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 4: of the patriarchy is that women. You know, they don't 336 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 4: trust a woman is in rock and roll, you know, 337 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 4: is playing the guitar. So it's that that's but you 338 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 4: know it'll change, and as everything does. It's just that's, 339 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 4: you know, of a all the advances. I mean, I 340 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 4: don't know if you know who Yon Winner is and 341 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 4: what he just went through. Yon Winner, look up Yon 342 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 4: Winter his last interview in New Yorker in the New 343 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 4: York Times. He was the founder of Rolling Stone magazine, 344 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 4: which was like the taste maker of rock and roll 345 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 4: through the sixties, seventies eight, you know, all through the 346 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 4: whole rock and roll era. And he just released a 347 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 4: book called The Masters where he took all his great 348 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 4: interviews that he'd ever done, and he put him in 349 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 4: a book and they were all white men. And the 350 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 4: interviewer asked him, well, don't you think you're missing out 351 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 4: on maybe some people of color and some women, And 352 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 4: he was like, no, they didn't know. And he had 353 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 4: the opportunity to actually go, oh yeah, well and say something, 354 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 4: but he was like, no, they were not as intelligent 355 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 4: or and you know, we're talking Joni Mitchell and and 356 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 4: you know, Jimmy Hendrix and Prince and you're saying, you 357 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 4: know so, And he just got in a lot of 358 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 4: trouble for that. But what I'm saying is that just 359 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 4: happened this year, where you know, all the other sort 360 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 4: of equalizing has been happening in the last ten years, 361 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 4: the music industry is probably the last. You know, it's 362 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: been a very male dominated space for a long time. 363 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a really interesting thing that we're 364 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: seeing everywhere in this time, right is there's been these 365 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: ideas of progress, but you see that sort of pendulum swing, 366 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: and it feels like we've been rolling it back so intensely. 367 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: Whether it's in your industry, in my industry, you see 368 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: it in politics and you go, oh boy, we really 369 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: they really want to cling to power, don't they. 370 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 4: Exactly. I wouldn't want I wouldn't call it rolling back 371 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 4: to me. I think it's pulling the curtain off of 372 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 4: it and finally it and. 373 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 2: Going how deep it goes? 374 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 4: WHOA, that's really like it? Like I didn't I knew. 375 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 4: I always knew, yeah, well there's not many women rock 376 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 4: and roll and whatever, but I didn't know there was 377 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 4: an active I didn't know just how deeply entrenched it 378 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 4: was the belief of, oh, no, these these women are serious. 379 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 4: There's nothing serious here. They're not intelligent, they're not articulate, 380 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 4: and you know, and and that that's what's mind going. 381 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 4: And then you see these politicians and they can't get away. 382 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 4: You know, we've got there's cameras everywhere. They're going to 383 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 4: catch everything, and they can't get away with it, and 384 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 4: we see it more. It's not that we're going back. 385 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 4: I think it's a sign of we're going forward because 386 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 4: the what used to kind of be silently in power 387 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 4: is not anymore. It's it's revealed and we can all 388 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 4: go wow, and then we're moving on from that. So 389 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 4: I think it's a good thing. It's a kind of 390 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 4: an ugly, painful thing, but it's good in the end. 391 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really that's really a cool way to look 392 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: at it. And I think about, you know, when you 393 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: talk about the people left out of that book, or 394 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: the people who've historically been you know, left out of 395 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: the rooms where it happens. As they say, you know, 396 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: it's been hard for women. It's also been incredibly hard 397 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: for folks from the LGBTQ community, and they yet here 398 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: you are in a time where it was hard for women, 399 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: where it was extra hard for gay women, and you 400 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: managed to break through into the you know, top tier 401 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: of rock and roll. And it's so inspiring. It was 402 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: inspiring to me as a young artist. It's inspiring to 403 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: me and so many people around the world still, you 404 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: know now and I think about some things that really 405 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: stuck out to me in your show, you know, seeing 406 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: it on Broadway. Even you talking about the way you're 407 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: roommate was like I see you, Yeah, like she knew 408 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: who you were and you were finding your identity as 409 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: a as a queer woman. You know, in this time, 410 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: what was that like? Because we see now again to 411 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: your point, all this progress has been made, and we 412 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: see as we peel back the next layer, how many 413 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: people want to attack you know, people's freedom and autonomy. 414 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: And we're thinking about, you know, decades ago. Was it 415 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: Was it a scary time? Was it a time where 416 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: you could feel that progress happening? 417 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: Was it all of it at once? 418 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 4: I think I've had a really great time to be 419 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 4: alive and to to go through this and see it firsthand. 420 00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 4: Because I can tell folks like yourself this that growing 421 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 4: up with sixties and seventies. In the sixties and early seventies, 422 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 4: being a homosexual was considered a mental illness, and they 423 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 4: were in a lot of states they were throwing us 424 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: in jail for this. They were arresting us and throwing 425 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 4: us in jail, so you didn't want it was dangerous. 426 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 4: And the seventies were when we first started pushing back 427 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 4: and going no, we're not and getting a little bit 428 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 4: of traction. But you still if you came out to 429 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 4: your parents or anybody, you would destroy the family because 430 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 4: it was they would think, you know, depending on their beliefs, 431 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 4: you know, one you're going to hell or whatever, but 432 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 4: that your life was going to be miserable, that you 433 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 4: were picking a lonely, dark life if you were homosexual, 434 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 4: be because that's all anybody knew. And it wasn't until 435 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 4: let's see, I graduated high school in seventy nine and 436 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 4: became a young adult in the eighties, and that was 437 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 4: when it started getting a little like you'd see a 438 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 4: little bit more. They were the weirdos, you know. The 439 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 4: women were there all, you know, and the kind of 440 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 4: you know, really strong kind of thing, and the men 441 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 4: were the most effeminate. You know. It was it was 442 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 4: the outer you know, the places of the personality of 443 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 4: the LGBT community that was making all the change, because 444 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 4: they're the ones that can't hide it, you know. There 445 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 4: you know, all of us in the middle were like, well, 446 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 4: what I mean, I can pass a straight you know, 447 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 4: And so so the work was being done by that, 448 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 4: the fringes. And the more it happened in the eighties, 449 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 4: and the more comfortable I got in my in the 450 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 4: women's community I was in in Long Beach in Los Angeles, 451 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 4: the stronger got. There was a there was a in 452 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 4: young Hollywood in the late eighties early nineties, there was 453 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 4: a community of gays and lesbians that, you know, professionals 454 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 4: that were making a lot of business in One by 455 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 4: one we'd all kind of step forward. And the more 456 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 4: people came out, you know, myself, Martinez and Avertilova, Billy 457 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 4: Jean King. The more these successful people came out, you 458 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 4: had to change the conversation about well, if you're gay, 459 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 4: you're going to have a dark, horrible life. It's like, 460 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 4: people go, no, I'm not having a horrible life. It'd 461 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 4: saved my life to be who I was. So you 462 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 4: start having the conversation and it starts changing hearts and minds. 463 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 4: And through the nineties and two thousands and twenty tens, 464 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 4: those thirty years, we have grown a lot to where today, 465 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 4: I mean, you might think that, you know, we're struggling 466 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 4: and everything, but man, we are way far from where 467 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 4: we were in Our struggles are no longer okay, you're 468 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 4: going to throw me in jail or you're going to 469 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 4: kill me. You know, it's now, Oh I might you're 470 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 4: going to take this book out of school because you think, 471 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 4: you know, that's it's a different struggle, but it's still 472 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 4: the it's because of the expansion of the LGBTQ community 473 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 4: that that there is such pushback. But the pushback is 474 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 4: now on the fringes and not you know, in the 475 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 4: middle because the Oh god, I can go on and 476 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 4: on about this, but it's just a change that I 477 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 4: have seen, and it's always getting better. So in thirty 478 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 4: years you're going to be talking about how it was 479 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 4: strange thirty years ago but now it's not right. 480 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the things that's been in 481 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: interesting for me to watch as a kid, you know, 482 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: growing up through the eighties and nineties and being part 483 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: of this community my whole life. You know, my dad's 484 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: an artist, Like I grew up in the queerest, most diverse, 485 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: like amazing culture and so many people, especially folks who 486 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: look like us, have had to have this reckoning about privilege, 487 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: and you know, what white privilege looks like and how 488 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: our society was. 489 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 2: Designed and who it was designed for. 490 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: And one of the things that you know, when we're 491 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: doing hard work, digging into hard subject matter, I also 492 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: like to try to look at what the positives are 493 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: that we can learn from. And one of the things 494 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: I feel the most grateful for about the way I 495 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: grew up is that I had the privilege of exposure. 496 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: You know, like my uncle Jeff and his husband Winston 497 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: were just like the most fabulous couple who raised me. 498 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: And Winston did drag is Diana Ross every Saturday night 499 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: here in La and like, you know, I grew up 500 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: with this like fabulous black drag queen and I was like, 501 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: you're the coolest person I know. And I think now 502 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: about how blessed I was, because so many people who 503 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: grow up in more homogeneous communities don't grow up around 504 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: people of color or queer people, or you know, folks 505 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: who make art or do anything different than like what 506 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: maybe the town industry is. And I feel so lucky 507 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: to have been reared in this community because you know, 508 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: in my life, at all the stages of figuring out 509 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: who I am. My community, my parents' community are just 510 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: like cool. Yeah, like we love you being more and 511 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: more yourself, you know, right, And and I think about how, 512 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: to your point, the more of us there are out 513 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: in the world, living whatever our individual truths are, the 514 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: more we can example set for other people that they 515 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: get to. 516 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: Do the same. 517 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 4: That's how it works, and it's just so cool. 518 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you had that footage from the 519 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: inauguration when you did your big announcement on the mic. 520 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: Will you tell people about that moment. It's one of 521 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: my favorite moments in your show. 522 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,959 Speaker 4: I had done some fundraising work for the Bill Clinton, 523 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 4: the Clinton Gore campaign of ninety two, and this was 524 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 4: a big time. We had just had Republican we just 525 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 4: had Reagan into Bush. We'd had twelve years of Republican 526 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 4: suppression of AIDS, you know, and the gay community for 527 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 4: those twelve years were really pushing against that. 528 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: And when we. 529 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 4: Finally had a candidate who would even say gay and lesbian, 530 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 4: it was groundbreaking to hear that on television and he 531 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 4: would talk about it. So the gay community really got 532 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 4: behind him, and you know, we changed, We got out 533 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: and did a lot of work as we still do 534 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 4: to this day. We're a big force in the voting block. Yeah. 535 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 4: And so when I had done some work for them, 536 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 4: they invited me to the inauguration. It was I got to, 537 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 4: you know, sit and watch him say, Jefferson, you know Clinton, 538 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 4: William Jefferson, Clinton, that's it. And so he does that. 539 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 4: And that night there's all the inaugural balls, and for 540 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 4: the first time there were three gay lesbian packs that 541 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 4: really helped. And now they're all kind of anyway, but 542 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 4: back then there was three of them. And so we 543 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 4: had what was called the Triangle Ball, and it was 544 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 4: the Gay and Lesbian Ball, and it was it was 545 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 4: really fabulous. It was at the Washington Press Club. So 546 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 4: when I was up in the balcony with Katie Lang 547 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 4: and all the all the leaders, Elizabeth Birch, all the 548 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 4: you know, these past great LGBTQ leaders up there in 549 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 4: the balcony, someone had me a microphone and I said, 550 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 4: I hadn't planned on coming out, or I have said 551 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 4: something much more eloquent, but I said, I I'm proud 552 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 4: to I'm proud to say that I'm proud to been 553 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 4: a lesbian all my life. And it was just a 554 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 4: really weird way to say it. But I came out 555 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 4: and then it was at the press club. So the 556 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 4: next day it was in the newspapers. And didn't have 557 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 4: social media back then, so it didn't go boom. It's slowly. 558 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 4: Every tour I would do slowly. Reporters from every town 559 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 4: would put it in there paper, and it just slowly. 560 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 4: I talked about being That's all I talked about for 561 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 4: about five years. Was being gay? Was it? Yeah? But 562 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 4: it was a great time and it did helped, and 563 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 4: it was I don't remember anything. 564 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a 565 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. I think about the 566 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: impact of your voice there. I think about what it 567 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: was like to see your family. It was the Rolling 568 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: Stone cover that you guys all did together, right with 569 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, I remember it as a kid being like, whoa, 570 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: this is so cool. And it's interesting that you say 571 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: that it was like a slow moving growth of awareness, 572 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: because you're right now. With social media, it's like somebody 573 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: can get a tidbit run with it. You know, we 574 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: know that false information spreads fifteen hundred times faster on 575 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: the Internet than the truth. I've certainly experienced my fair share. 576 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 4: Of that that's never happened to you, has it? 577 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: Oh gee, it's not happening to me now or anything. 578 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 2: Oh what a wild time. 579 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: But it's such an interesting thing to watch the way 580 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: that it sort of bursts like a wildfire now, and 581 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: what a gorgeous thing that you got to. 582 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 2: Have a slower move. 583 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: But I didn't think about the fact that you feel 584 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: like your life centered on your identity for five years. 585 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 2: You were probably like, are. 586 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 4: We still talking about this exactly? But it actually gave 587 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 4: me an opportunity to kind of get used to and 588 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 4: perfect talking about being gay, because nobody had sat down 589 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 4: with newspapers and magazines and television showers and actually talked 590 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 4: about it. And if I was going to be this representative, 591 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 4: I wanted to feel comfortable with what I was saying 592 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 4: and be clear. And it gave me an opportunity, little 593 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 4: by little to grow and feel more confident in that. 594 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: Oh that's really cool. So I'm really curious about that, 595 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: because songwriting is storytelling. Your Broadway play is storytelling. It's 596 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: like a living photo album, retrospective, greatest hits, tour, Vaudeville's 597 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: show all rolled into one. I'm absolutely obsessed with that. 598 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: I've told everyone I know to go see it and 599 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: on top of my window being on Broadway right now, 600 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 1: You've penned this beautiful book Talking to Angels. You tell 601 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: the story of your life, of this era we're currently 602 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: you know, twirling through of your journey, you know, with 603 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: your ex wife Julie and having kids and moving into 604 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: this wonderful you know, finding your right relationship now, experiences 605 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: with you know, mental health and psychedelics and all the 606 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: things loss love. 607 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 2: It's this big How do you. 608 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: Decide as this public figure? And do you think this 609 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: period of five years you're talking about influenced your ability 610 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: to really dig into your story? Because I wonder how 611 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: you decide how much to share? 612 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 2: And do you view the. 613 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: Sharing as a as a gathering of this community you 614 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: get to talk to. Does it feel like a responsibility? 615 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: Does it feel like. 616 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: A torch to pass? Like? How do you think about 617 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 2: this stuff? 618 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 4: Well, all of this is is my own choice. I 619 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 4: have a choice of how to how I'm going to 620 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 4: hold it myself. You know, I can't control what other 621 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 4: people think about it. I can control about how I 622 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 4: feel about it. So the h the actual you know, 623 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 4: uh talking about it is is a chance for me 624 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 4: to learn and I once I came out, it's kind 625 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 4: of like once you open up and say this is 626 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 4: the real me, you can't really close it back and go, 627 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 4: oh no, you can't see any more of that you. 628 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 4: And what it's what it has led me to be 629 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 4: is more comfortable with my life and my choices, where 630 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 4: I don't feel like I have to look like someone else, 631 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 4: act like someone else, make make music like someone else 632 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 4: because they're more popular or whatever, those things that we 633 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 4: compare ourselves to. You just realized, Wow, I've got to 634 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 4: be just me right now, and I've got to be 635 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 4: okay with the choices I'm making first, so that when 636 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 4: I talk about them, I'm confident about it and what 637 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 4: other people think about it is none of my business. 638 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 4: So I just so I was able to then, when 639 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 4: I went through cancer, to speak truthfully about that and say, look, 640 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 4: and when I started smoking cannabis, people weren't talking about 641 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 4: that in the early two thousands, it was still that 642 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 4: was you know, again, we're getting thrown in ja over 643 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 4: that sort of thing. And to say, look, this is medicine. 644 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 4: This is medicine, and become an advocate for cannabis and 645 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 4: psychedelics and things, and we still are you. But to 646 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 4: do that and feel it's all about how I feel. 647 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 4: If I'm waiting for other people to tell me if 648 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 4: it's okay or not, then I'm sunk. So and I'm grateful. 649 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 4: I'm grateful for those five years of talking about it, 650 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 4: of getting the confidence and then moving through my life 651 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 4: just slowly and loving every choice that I've made and 652 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 4: feeling like I've done the best I can. 653 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 2: Oh, that's beautiful. 654 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 4: What a cool. 655 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 2: Place to reach. 656 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 1: Again. Like the sort of stage I find myself in 657 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: is being in a space where I go, Oh, I've 658 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: done a lot of work. I've learned a lot of lessons. 659 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: I have found the greatest therapist, and I am in 660 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: the most integrity I have ever been in and for 661 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: the first time, other people's opinions don't really bother me anymore, 662 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: and I. 663 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 2: Didn't know i'd ever get here. 664 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 4: If you can keep if you can keep that up, 665 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 4: that you'll be happier. Yeah, and you will start realizing 666 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 4: in the end, not in the end, I'm not at 667 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 4: the end, but as you get older, that being happy 668 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 4: is actually the most important thing. It is not what 669 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 4: you can't if you think you can suffer and strife 670 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 4: and suffer and suffer to where you'll have a happy 671 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 4: ending somehow it's you're just going to suffer. But if 672 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 4: you can go, no, I'm making a choice to be 673 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 4: happy right now and this feels good. If you can 674 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 4: keep doing that, Believe me, when you're sixty two and 675 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 4: talking to someone younger, you'll go, yeah, I made my 676 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 4: choices and I've had a very happy life and I'm 677 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 4: very happy about that. 678 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. So this way that you tell stories 679 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: when you think about it, you know, kind of looking back, 680 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: we've talked about this era of coming out that actually 681 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: was five years and it makes me laugh because you know, 682 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: they always say like it takes a decade to be 683 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: an overnight success, and I'm like, oh, it took you 684 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: five years for everybody to have heard the thing you 685 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: said five years before. When when you're when you're in 686 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 1: that stage where to your point, you're touring the country 687 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: and the world and you're you know, nominated for awards 688 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: and winning them and selling crazy amounts of albums and 689 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: you've you are like the rock and roller of of 690 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: our time. How how were you able to figure out 691 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: your life in the midst of that, because I know 692 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: how hard it can be to pick up and move 693 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,879 Speaker 1: for a show. But usually I pick up and move 694 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: somewhere and I stay there for six months. I'm not 695 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: like living in a tour bus or on an airplane 696 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: every night. And and and you during this whole stage, 697 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, you become a wife, you become a parent, 698 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: as you said, you battle breast cancer. 699 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much happening. How did you make 700 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: sense of it all? 701 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 4: Well, life happens slowly, it really does. And in the 702 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,280 Speaker 4: in the show and in the book, I talk about 703 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 4: uh having a heroic dose of cannabis where I overdosed 704 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 4: on edimals, you know, and it really basically blew my mind, 705 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 4: but it opened a thought, It opened more thought of Wow, 706 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 4: that took me out of the torture of what other 707 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 4: people think about me. See I in the nineties, in 708 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 4: the eighties and nineties, it was all I needed. I 709 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 4: needed to be on the cover Rolling Stone, I needed 710 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 4: to have a number one hit. I needed other people 711 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 4: to validate what I was doing. And then when I 712 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 4: you know, struggled and struggled and struggling, and it finally 713 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 4: got there and realized, Wow, This is not making me happy. 714 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 4: This is just something I did. What makes me happy 715 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 4: is when I'm on stage loving what I'm doing, or 716 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 4: when I'm home with my kids and my family. Okay, 717 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: well now my year now when I'm working, my year 718 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 4: is broken up into and my whole family knows it's summertime. 719 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 4: Mom is going on tour's that's what we do. And 720 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 4: I love love playing the music that makes everything go away. 721 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 4: When I am on stage and there's an audience of 722 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 4: two thousand or two hundred thousand, you know, it doesn't matter. 723 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 4: It's always different. And those people are there to hear 724 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 4: the songs that they love and to have an experience 725 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 4: with me. That's golden. That's all I ever wanted. So 726 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 4: the traveling and the stuff, that's what we go through. 727 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,720 Speaker 4: And when you talk about you know, you go somewhere 728 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 4: for six months, well you know, you know how crews are, 729 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 4: you know how you know the driver is, You make friends, 730 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 4: You make your own family at that time. You know, 731 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 4: the person who works at the bar in the hotel 732 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 4: you're staying at, you know becomes That's what life is 733 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 4: is those relationships, ships and you get put in that situation. 734 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 4: I have my tour manager has been my tour manager 735 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 4: for thirty five years. He's just he's like a brother 736 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 4: to me. You know, my bandmates are our brothers to me. 737 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 4: I've got I've got beautiful sisters that work for me 738 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,399 Speaker 4: in you know, in production and go on the road 739 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 4: with me and and my lighting you know, designers a 740 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 4: woman and we just you surround yourself with these people 741 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 4: and and you have life with them. Also my family, 742 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 4: you know, my you know, well not blood family, but 743 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 4: my family family, and you just you just realize that 744 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 4: that's what it is. It's not there's not something else 745 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 4: that I'd rather be doing, you know, and if there is, 746 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 4: then I will do it. But you know, so you 747 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 4: make your life in what you're doing, and you know that, 748 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 4: you know, you'll have friends that forever from the first 749 00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 4: production you ever did you. 750 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I Mean I was just with 751 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:03,799 Speaker 1: one of my best girlfriends from my first job last 752 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: weekend and we were like, oh my god, our friendship's 753 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: old enough to vote, Like what crazy? What a crazy 754 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: reality that is? You know, next year it'll be old 755 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: enough to order a beer at the bar. And it's 756 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: so cool. It's so so cool. So when you talk 757 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: about if there's something else you want to do, you'll 758 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: do it. Was that did you have this feeling about 759 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: wanting to go and do Broadway? Because in a way, 760 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: your show is like a concert, and my god, I 761 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: mean you touched on it a minute ago. You know. 762 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: You have this bit in the show, the scene about 763 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 1: when you did this hero's dose and I'm telling you, 764 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: we were laughing, we hit my girlfriends and I had 765 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: tears streaming down our face. Like you made it so 766 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: funny and also so educational and spiritual and illuminating and 767 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: all the things. There is so much packed into the retrospective. 768 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: How did you decide to go you Broadway? And was 769 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: it scary at all because you've been on the biggest 770 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: stages in the world or were you like, nah, I 771 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: got it well. 772 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 4: The because it's so different because when I go on 773 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,280 Speaker 4: stage with my band, I'm in one hundred percent control 774 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,280 Speaker 4: no matter what happens, I'm in charge, and I can 775 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 4: I can tell my band to do anything. I can 776 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 4: do anything, and if an audience is sleepy, I can say, Okay, 777 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 4: let's we're going to play ballads and stay you know, 778 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 4: or we can you know, I can change things on 779 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 4: the fly and that's what I do, and I love it. Broadway. 780 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 4: You have to do it exactly the same way every 781 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 4: single time, and it's got that. I have a certain 782 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 4: amount of freedom because the show is very conversational, and 783 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,319 Speaker 4: I chose not to like memorize a whole thing, you know, 784 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 4: I memorize the shape of the show and what story 785 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,480 Speaker 4: I'm telling, but how I tell it might be a 786 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 4: little different with every audience. I had to give myself 787 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 4: that freedom, right cot Nuts. But the Broadway dream I've 788 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 4: I have loved and appreciated and admired Broadway since I 789 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 4: was a child watching you know, Barbar Streis, and I 790 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 4: was a huge fan of that and and Godspell and 791 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 4: these great musicals and Broadway. You realize when you're in 792 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 4: the music industry that, especially now, you can have a 793 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 4: small amount of talent with a lot of energy, and 794 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 4: technically we can make you sound good. Well, you can't 795 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,040 Speaker 4: do that on Broadway. It's live. It's live every night. 796 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 4: You have to bring it every night. You have to 797 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 4: be able to rise to this certain live audience every 798 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 4: single night. And so it's it is for only the 799 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 4: ridiculously talented, you know, Broadway is and it is it's 800 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 4: very revered. The the talent, the just the work that 801 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,520 Speaker 4: people do on Broadway is out of this world. So 802 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 4: I wanted to be part of that. I wanted to 803 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 4: create something I still do. I want to create something 804 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 4: that that I won't be in I want I want 805 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 4: to write something that I don't have to give up 806 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,280 Speaker 4: every day, you know. And so my wife, who's also 807 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 4: a producer and writer and you know, amazing artist herself, 808 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 4: also loves Broadway. Her one of her best friends of 809 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 4: Joe Mantello, who directed Wicked, you know, so he's we're 810 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 4: we are aware of the Broadway community very deeply, and 811 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 4: we when when we have thought about bringing something to 812 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,879 Speaker 4: Broadway for a long time. So a few years ago, 813 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 4: during the pandemic, when this all started to really come together, 814 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 4: it was clear. When I was writing the book, I said, Okay, 815 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 4: I believe my life can be the art in this one. 816 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 4: You know this this I've done that with my songs before. 817 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,839 Speaker 4: I really I want to tell the story and I'm 818 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,919 Speaker 4: hopefully it is helpful and healing and inspiring. And that's 819 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 4: really my intention is to show people, you know, or 820 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 4: to just inspire people in that. 821 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: So you were figure earing out the show while you 822 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: were writing the book. Oh yeah, wow, what a cool 823 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 1: parallel path. 824 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, And both of them came from conversations with my wife. 825 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 4: I would we would have these conversation. We just started 826 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,360 Speaker 4: putting the voice memo on and saying, Okay, we're just 827 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,439 Speaker 4: gonna record this, and I would just I would sit. 828 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 4: I mean, it was a pandemic. We didn't have anything 829 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 4: to do. I would just sit and and just tell 830 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 4: stories about my past. And we just recorded it all 831 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 4: and then just started to you know, chisel it down, 832 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 4: and we had to leave a lot out. There's a 833 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 4: lot that happened in my life that we had to 834 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,719 Speaker 4: just you know, condense it. Even the opening show you 835 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 4: saw was still a little large. We've sort of condensed 836 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 4: it down, but really, yeah, you know, we're always working 837 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 4: on making it better. 838 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:56,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now for our sponsors. And one of the 839 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: things you touch on, you know, obviously such a size 840 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: event in the show, and you are so open in 841 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: the book. And while I'm always very hesitant to just 842 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 1: sort of make people repeat their hardest things, one of 843 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: the things that I found the most inspiring watching the 844 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: show and subsequently reading about it is the purpose that 845 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,879 Speaker 1: you've delivered for so many people out of personal pain. 846 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,759 Speaker 1: You talk about your son passing at twenty one. He 847 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: likes so many people you know, sadly in our country, 848 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 1: was affected by opioid addiction, and you share his story 849 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: so honestly, you know it's brave, I believe to talk 850 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:50,319 Speaker 1: about the pain and the awful things that came out 851 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: of that that were said. You know, between you and 852 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: your ex, the suffering obviously of losing a child, and 853 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: you manage to transmute that into this incredible organization and 854 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: activism for families who are suffering. Is it hard to 855 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:11,040 Speaker 1: talk about? Does talking about him allow him to stay 856 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: with you? 857 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 2: Is it both? 858 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,520 Speaker 4: I having had the experience of coming out as a 859 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 4: as a lesbian and having the experience of having breast 860 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,279 Speaker 4: cancer and being open and honest about it, and being 861 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 4: open and honest about psychedelic use and stuff. When my 862 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,479 Speaker 4: son died, I realized if I if I don't put 863 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,120 Speaker 4: it out and speak about how I'm walking through it, 864 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 4: I do a disservice to myself and what it has 865 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,360 Speaker 4: helped me. It helped me organize it in my head 866 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 4: and in my heart so that it doesn't weigh heavy 867 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 4: every night. Every night at that show, I say my 868 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,359 Speaker 4: son would want me to be every single and that 869 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,760 Speaker 4: heals me. Now, do I want to do this show 870 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,399 Speaker 4: forever and ever? No, I'm only going to do it. 871 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,560 Speaker 4: I've got five more shows, you know, and I'll probably 872 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 4: lay it down for a while and let it sit 873 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,680 Speaker 4: because it has done the job of healing that I 874 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 4: was looking for. To be open and honest, to do 875 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 4: this in front of people, to it was the same 876 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,319 Speaker 4: as getting on stage when I was bald. You just 877 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 4: the thing that scares you the most. If you can 878 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 4: with love in your heart, if you can walk toward 879 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 4: it and then slowly go through it, it can be very, 880 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:49,319 Speaker 4: very healing, and hopefully it can help others, you know. 881 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 4: But it's only for me every single night saying my 882 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 4: son would want me to be happy. He would want 883 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 4: me to know my happiness cannot cause anyone else pain. 884 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,440 Speaker 4: Saying that every single night, it's gotten easier for me 885 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 4: to say it. It's easier for me to talk about 886 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,839 Speaker 4: it now with you. And so that's because I believe it. 887 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 4: Because I truly believe it, that I can really line 888 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,359 Speaker 4: up with that and show people that no, no, no, 889 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:14,839 Speaker 4: I'm not going to my life's not going to end 890 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 4: because my son's choices. You know, I loved him, and 891 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:23,560 Speaker 4: yes it was devastating and I grieved, and I'm moving 892 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 4: through it, and my life is still a beautiful life. 893 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 4: I have three incredible children that bring me so much joy. 894 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 4: You know, I'm not going to let this we we 895 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 4: speak of him lovingly constantly, and I'm hopefully showing them 896 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 4: how to hold it also and not let it be 897 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,319 Speaker 4: something that brings you down. 898 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,240 Speaker 3: Right. 899 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think to set that example is so powerful 900 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: that yes, suffering or loss can and will change you, 901 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: but it doesn't have to take over every part of you. 902 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: You deserve joy, your children deserve joy, any of us. 903 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,440 Speaker 1: I think, especially post pandemic. You know, the people have 904 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: been talking about I listened to this psychologist talk about 905 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:15,920 Speaker 1: how this has been the summer. They're calling it the 906 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,439 Speaker 1: summer of the Great Divorce, like akin to the Great 907 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,520 Speaker 1: Depression when the whole economy collapsed. There is now a 908 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:28,719 Speaker 1: sort of psychological collapse of these systems or structures or 909 00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: relationships that aren't serving people. And I think part of 910 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 1: that has to be because we lived through this pandemic 911 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: and millions of people around the world died and we 912 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:48,240 Speaker 1: have seen this unprecedented loss for folks suffering from opioid addiction. 913 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,839 Speaker 1: We are seeing unprecedented loss and conflict zones around the world. 914 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,040 Speaker 1: And I think, how dare we if we're lucky enough 915 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,360 Speaker 1: to still be here not pursue our joy and not 916 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,359 Speaker 1: make art and not gather people for song? How dare we? 917 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 1: Because that's why we're alive. In a way, I think 918 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:15,800 Speaker 1: it has to make you more committed to really honoring 919 00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,359 Speaker 1: the potential for your own delight. If you got to stay. 920 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you just do it every single day, walk 921 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 4: out every day, don't ever get caught up in past 922 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,120 Speaker 4: or future. That's all that's that'll come, but it will 923 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:35,560 Speaker 4: always feel like now now where we're at. And so 924 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,640 Speaker 4: if you walk that every day, if you just every moment, 925 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,560 Speaker 4: make it just a little more of that, will you 926 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:48,160 Speaker 4: will see that momentum grow, and it's it's you will 927 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,880 Speaker 4: be able to look at the world around us and 928 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,120 Speaker 4: understand that everyone's going through something and that death is 929 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,279 Speaker 4: a for sure thing for each and every one of 930 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 4: us and it comes differently, and to hold it and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, 931 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 4: that's coming, but right now I'm not dying. Right now, 932 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,600 Speaker 4: I'm right now, I'm alive, and if I'm happy, I 933 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 4: will be healthy and living longer. 934 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,800 Speaker 1: On to take your liveness an offer, as you said, 935 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,759 Speaker 1: as you always have your story as it evolves to 936 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,920 Speaker 1: people you know through your show, through the book. You 937 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,880 Speaker 1: mentioned that the show did what it needed to do 938 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,880 Speaker 1: for you, because I was going to ask if you 939 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 1: were going to extend, because so many people who knew 940 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,280 Speaker 1: I was interviewing with you. 941 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,600 Speaker 2: Today asked me to ask you. 942 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,480 Speaker 1: But I get that when you feel ready to be 943 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,640 Speaker 1: done with something, when it served its purpose. So the 944 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: show is going to close and the book is out 945 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: in the world. 946 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,319 Speaker 2: What feels like it's next for you? 947 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 1: How are you feeling sort of opening your arms to 948 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: all of this. 949 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,480 Speaker 4: I can't wait to get back on stage and just 950 00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:00,239 Speaker 4: start doing the thing that I love. We just yesterday day, 951 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 4: our our spring tour went on sale. I've got planned. Yeah, 952 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,240 Speaker 4: it'll be California, and I think I'm doing a little 953 00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,879 Speaker 4: down in Florida, kind of west coast, all the way 954 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:17,280 Speaker 4: up into Oregon and uh Washington and and and I 955 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,000 Speaker 4: love that so much. I love my band, I love 956 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,000 Speaker 4: my music, I love the people that love my music. 957 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,000 Speaker 4: I'm going to tour all summer, probably a little bit 958 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 4: into the fall, and it's just that is my happy place. 959 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:35,160 Speaker 4: My family knows it. Every it's just hm, it's so 960 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,560 Speaker 4: healing it. And then what will happen is towards the 961 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 4: end of next year, I'll get all antsy, like what's 962 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,360 Speaker 4: gonna what am I gonna do now? And and and 963 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 4: that's the joy of it is just you just keep 964 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 4: putting that in front of you. I should mention I 965 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 4: did something also last year. I did a concert at 966 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,200 Speaker 4: a women's penitentiary in Kansas, where I'm from, and we 967 00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,960 Speaker 4: have filmed that and it's a beautiful, moving, touching dot 968 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,800 Speaker 4: documentary that will be out in April on Paramount Plus. 969 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,240 Speaker 4: It's called I'm Not Broken. So that's going to be 970 00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,840 Speaker 4: out and that's going to hopefully kind of lift the 971 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,000 Speaker 4: tour up a little bit because people because it's a 972 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,800 Speaker 4: live concert video in a prison, it's really really moving 973 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,480 Speaker 4: and we talked to a few women there and it's 974 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:26,200 Speaker 4: really enlightening on what women are going through and what 975 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 4: people are doing now to think about crime and punishment differently, 976 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 4: in coarsration differently, and how we can actually help just 977 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 4: lock people up. 978 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,920 Speaker 1: That's beautiful Yeah, I've been lucky enough to do some 979 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,320 Speaker 1: prison visits with the Anti Recidivism Coalition. There you go, 980 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 1: and yeah, man, you just realize like to sit and 981 00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,520 Speaker 1: listen to people's stories and to bring them art. Can 982 00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 1: it's always the thing that heals. Yeah, I can't wait 983 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,240 Speaker 1: to see it. That's really exciting. 984 00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:57,840 Speaker 4: That too. 985 00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,960 Speaker 1: Yes, please, Oh my gosh, I'm coming. And I was 986 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:01,320 Speaker 1: to say I'm coming to the concert. 987 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,840 Speaker 2: Get ready. I'll just I'll be screaming my head off. 988 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,800 Speaker 4: I can't for you West coast or East coast. 989 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,040 Speaker 1: I'm back and forth, but I'm primarily West Coast. 990 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:11,400 Speaker 4: Okay, good, me too. 991 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,440 Speaker 1: So I'm between LA and New York a lot, but 992 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:14,680 Speaker 1: LA is technically home. 993 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:15,640 Speaker 4: Good. 994 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 2: Have you liked living in New York all all through 995 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:20,040 Speaker 2: the fall? Has been great? 996 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:26,400 Speaker 4: That's an interesting question. I'm here with my two daughters 997 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 4: and my wife, and so that's great. I'm a Midwestern, 998 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,760 Speaker 4: a California girl, and I like my space and there's 999 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,840 Speaker 4: just fuch space in New York City. I'm up on 1000 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,800 Speaker 4: the Upper East Side, which is nice and you know, 1001 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,800 Speaker 4: comparatively more space than most. But man, there's just a 1002 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,880 Speaker 4: lot of people here and it is constantly moving. And 1003 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,479 Speaker 4: I missed the sun. Even when it's out, I don't 1004 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,000 Speaker 4: always get to see it. And yeah, and I'm really 1005 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,600 Speaker 4: looking forward to just I have a huge yard and 1006 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,720 Speaker 4: my home California is just sent in. Yeah. But New 1007 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:08,640 Speaker 4: Yorkers have been wonderful and I've enjoyed the experience very much. 1008 01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,880 Speaker 4: I do not regret it at all. I'm really looking 1009 01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:11,240 Speaker 4: forward to it. 1010 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:12,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1011 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Oh, well, we can't wait to get you back here. 1012 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,000 Speaker 1: I feel the same anytime I go on location. 1013 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:17,240 Speaker 2: I come home. 1014 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,880 Speaker 1: I have this tree in my backyard that you know 1015 01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,440 Speaker 1: you're you're a fellow journey woman. Is like it's such 1016 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,320 Speaker 1: a sacred thing to lay under and have an experience. 1017 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,000 Speaker 1: And every time I get home, I walk in my 1018 01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,440 Speaker 1: backyard and literally hug my tree. 1019 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,080 Speaker 4: Yes we are, Yes, Yeah, I know, I know I 1020 01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,000 Speaker 4: missed that nature. I missed that, Kimmy. I'm ready for 1021 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,080 Speaker 4: some of that, yes, yeah. 1022 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I love it, thank you so much. I 1023 01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,680 Speaker 1: know that for everybody who's at home listening, they're they're 1024 01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,800 Speaker 1: going to go and you know, turn on one of 1025 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: their favorite records. 1026 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:51,200 Speaker 2: Of yours and. 1027 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Enjoy themselves while they order this book that is so 1028 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,040 Speaker 1: profoundly beautiful. And I just really want to thank you 1029 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: for the way you've chosen to share with us, because 1030 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: I think courage is contagious and when people tell the truth, 1031 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 1: it inspires other people to do the same. Thank you. 1032 01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 4: I appreciate the best on your journey, my friend. Okay, 1033 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,840 Speaker 4: thank you. What other people say about you is none 1034 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:17,400 Speaker 4: of your business. 1035 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:22,720 Speaker 1: You be indeed, I appreciate it. And yeah, please let 1036 01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 1: me know if we can hang when you get home. 1037 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:25,880 Speaker 1: I'd love to get to do that. 1038 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,560 Speaker 4: Plan on Okay, people definitely do that. 1039 01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: Thank you. 1040 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day, honey. 1041 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:40,120 Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.