1
00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ Presents.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:12,560
Speaker 1: We are following the Colts Neck murders trial. Last week

3
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: we gave you all basically an overview of what Week

4
00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,799
Speaker 1: one was like in this long anticipated trial. This is

5
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,639
Speaker 1: almost eight years in the making, from when these horrific

6
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: murders happened in this rural New Jersey town to actually

7
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 1: now getting to trial. We have Paul Canaro charged with

8
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,480
Speaker 1: the murders of his own brother, Keith Canaro, his wife Jennifer,

9
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 1: and their two children, eight year old Sophia and eleven

10
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,560
Speaker 1: year old Jesse, and then setting fire to their home

11
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: and his own home to cover up the crimes. This

12
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:51,479
Speaker 1: is such a difficult case to hear, but obviously so

13
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,559
Speaker 1: many people want to get to the truth and to

14
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,200
Speaker 1: help us. As we've been following this case each day,

15
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: we have criminal defense attorney extraordinary Alison treesel with us

16
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: once again to help us go over what we've seen

17
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 1: and heard so far and what her legal expertise thinks

18
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 1: about what's happened so far. Alison, TJ and I are

19
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 1: so excited to have you back on the podcast.

20
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,319
Speaker 2: Thank you. I love being here and this is a

21
00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: hard one to hear right. This is a story about

22
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,040
Speaker 2: two brothers that at some point were the best of friends,

23
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: they were business partners, they care deeply for each other

24
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,920
Speaker 2: and their families, and wow, did this go horribly wrong.

25
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,520
Speaker 2: I have to start by saying that of all the

26
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,039
Speaker 2: opening statements in my thirty years that I've heard that

27
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 2: I've been a part of, none has been more explosive

28
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,680
Speaker 2: than the one given by the Da Nicole Wallace. In

29
00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: this case, it was riveting. It was concise, it made sense,

30
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 2: it wasn't too long, It laid out their case, and

31
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,799
Speaker 2: if in fact what she said is true, it was

32
00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 2: one of the most sinister, sinister murders ever committed. And

33
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,919
Speaker 2: this is a family, This is a family. So I mean,

34
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 2: what stood out to me is when she talked about

35
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 2: the killing of the niece, the forty five pound niece,

36
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 2: the seventeen stab wounds of the niece, and then the

37
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 2: lengths that you go to light the house on fire,

38
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 2: that those children didn't immediately die, that there was smoke

39
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 2: found in their lungs to indicate that they were alive

40
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 2: after those brutal stabbings. So whoever did that? And the

41
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 2: people obviously contend that it was Paul Knaro, the brother,

42
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,120
Speaker 2: and that he had every motive, including many dollars signs

43
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 2: to do away with the entire family. It is one

44
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 2: of those cases where you're shaking your head saying, wow,

45
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 2: if this is true, that this is a case of

46
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,239
Speaker 2: greed of despair and a family just ripped apart.

47
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 3: Alison, you talk about how emotional and devastating, how sinister

48
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 3: the crime is. That's on the prosecution side. That's what

49
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 3: they have going for them. Is there anything you heard

50
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 3: from the defense? I know they maybe have an uphill climb,

51
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 3: but what did you hear from them that makes you

52
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,760
Speaker 3: think maybe they have a decent case to put on.

53
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to use word decent, okay, because

54
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to be straight with our listeners, right. I mean,

55
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 2: there are times where I say, wait a minute, we

56
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 2: got something here, let's talk about it, Okay. What their

57
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 2: theory at this point, before they have put on their

58
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 2: case through their through the defense attorney at opening was

59
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 2: that the police did a really shoddy job, that they

60
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 2: rushed to judgment, that there was a third brother that

61
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 2: also stood to make a substantial amount of money if

62
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 2: this entire family was wiped out because Keith Canaro's blind

63
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 2: trust if something happened to his entire family would be

64
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 2: split between Paul and the third brother, Corey, and Corey

65
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 2: was not involved in the business, and Corey was never

66
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 2: thoroughly investigated. So their argument thus far seems to be

67
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 2: blame it on the police. The police. The police did

68
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 2: not thoroughly investigate this case, and therefore there are potential

69
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 2: other suspects that were never questioned. They the police put

70
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 2: blinders on the immediately honed in on Paul, and therefore

71
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 2: it is their fault that there isn't somebody else sitting

72
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,160
Speaker 2: here as the defendant in this.

73
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 3: Case, Alison, Generally, among defense attorneys pointing the finger at

74
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 3: another suspect, is that usually something that is looked at

75
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 3: favorably or unfavorably with we have a name for.

76
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 2: It, and is some other dude did it? Some other

77
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,720
Speaker 2: dude did it? So, yes, TJ. That is not unusual.

78
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 2: It is not unusual.

79
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 3: And you know smart does it work?

80
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,040
Speaker 2: Well? Sometimes it works? But is it smart? Well? When

81
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 2: you what else do they have?

82
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 3: Right?

83
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 2: What else do they have? They have to say it

84
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 2: wasn't him, and they have to say that if the

85
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 2: police and law enforcement would have done their homework, they

86
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 2: would have found the true culprit. It wasn't him, But

87
00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,080
Speaker 2: I will tell you that it wasn't just the opening

88
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 2: statements so far. When I heard the phone call from

89
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 2: Keith to Paul, where he and this is the day before, okay,

90
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 2: where he says, where's the money, Paul? What did you

91
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 2: do with the money? Paul? And I'm talking about the

92
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 2: money that was supposed to be paid for the premium

93
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: for this blind trust that only Paul had control over.

94
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: It was like seventy eight thousand dollars, Get right, take right.

95
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,279
Speaker 2: But there had also been a previous dipping into the funds,

96
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 2: allegedly for twenty five thousand dollars that went to went

97
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,559
Speaker 2: to Paul's a school event that was clearly not for

98
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 2: the trust to go to his children, to go to

99
00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,240
Speaker 2: Keith's children. And then we hear from the accountant and

100
00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 2: the accountants on the stand, and the accountant is talking

101
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,920
Speaker 2: about how it was discovered how there was some cooking

102
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 2: of the books according to the accountant. That the accountant

103
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 2: said that he routinely reviews all the checks that go

104
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 2: to make the premiums. And it appears from what the

105
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 2: countant is testifying to that Paul was very methodical in

106
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: covering up making those payments, when in fact those payments

107
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 2: to the life insurance company had never hadn't been made

108
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 2: for months and months.

109
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,000
Speaker 1: Allison, as you detail the evidence that the prosecution is

110
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,679
Speaker 1: putting forward, that is, or at least from what I heard,

111
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: part of the defense's defense, what do you make of

112
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 1: their claim that the overwhelming evidence in his case is

113
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: just too convenient, and that's what their argument is to

114
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 1: point the finger at the other brother, Corey, to say

115
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 1: he then would have had the most to gain financially,

116
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 1: because if you take one brother out and his entire

117
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 1: family with the murder, you take the other brother out

118
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 1: by pinning said murders on him. Now you get it

119
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: all here, we go, ready.

120
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 2: Sometimes it is what it is, and sometimes a defendant

121
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 2: is just so sloppy that they leave a you know,

122
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 2: handsel Gretel trail of crumbs left.

123
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 3: To the crime.

124
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 2: So here there is some real physical evidence that the

125
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 2: that the prosecution is presenting that the defense has to

126
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,959
Speaker 2: contend with. I don't like the idea of the burnt

127
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 2: fire cannisters right there in Paul's home. I don't like

128
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:53,960
Speaker 2: Paul's the he if the prosecution is correct, he attempts

129
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 2: to burn down his own house and what remains is clothing,

130
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:05,960
Speaker 2: clothing with the young girl's DNA on the clothing. Now,

131
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:13,079
Speaker 2: Corey has to be some incredible magician magician to stage

132
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 2: a crime where he they have a video, the last

133
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:24,560
Speaker 2: known recording of Paul is going toward his DVR, and

134
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 2: then the DVR is essentially cut. Those things are very

135
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:39,840
Speaker 2: hard to invent. And you know there is an idea

136
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 2: that could you be set up? Well, my goodness, this

137
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,840
Speaker 2: Corey is something else if he's able to accomplish all

138
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 2: of that, and TJ, you're looking at me. But sometimes

139
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 2: sometimes facts are what they are, and you leave a

140
00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 2: trail of evidence behind because you are slow and because

141
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 2: you don't you think when you when you burn the house.

142
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 2: So we're to understand, okay, we're to understand that Corey

143
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 2: goes over, somebody else goes over, lights the Porsche on fire,

144
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 2: lights one of the brother's houses on fire, the other

145
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 2: brother's house on fire, and there's just simply no evidence

146
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 2: of that thus far.

147
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,960
Speaker 3: Okay, tell me, then, Alison, where has the defense scored

148
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 3: any points?

149
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 2: Okay? So I did listen a little bit to the

150
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 2: to the accounts testimony, and they're going after this sale

151
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 2: of Ecoscar, and there was an offer allegedly this is

152
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 2: the business that was a fifty to fifty business split

153
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 2: between the brothers, and there was an offer to sell

154
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 2: it for eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Apparently Key

155
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 2: says yes, I'm for it. Paul says, let's hold off.

156
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 2: And the prosecution was trying to argue that Paul was

157
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 2: simply greedy and you know, all of this is swirling

158
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 2: around and here goes one of his you know, streams

159
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 2: of income. But the defense said, well, this conversation is

160
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,440
Speaker 2: not just an isolation, and in fact, you the accountant

161
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 2: told them, you know, we may be able to get

162
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 2: a better offer. There are reasons to keep negotiating. Because

163
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 2: the prosecution had isolated just one sort of email exchange

164
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 2: where they said, look, eight fifty is a really good deal.

165
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 2: You should take it. Well, in previous conversations that the

166
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,199
Speaker 2: that the defense raised, they said, wait a minute, you

167
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 2: actually said to them we may be able to do better,

168
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 2: or something to that effect. So it's actually more of

169
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 2: a building a case as a defense attorney, where you're

170
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 2: poking holes at Everything that the prosecution says is definitive

171
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 2: is definitive. And as Amy brought up, what are they

172
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 2: going to go after? They're going to go after a

173
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 2: Come on, people, this is just way too convenient. This

174
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: is just way too convenient. And jurors, there's something called

175
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 2: the CSI effect right where they say, we want DNA,

176
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 2: we want a case, we want all of this proven

177
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 2: to us, handed to us on a silver platter, and

178
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 2: a defense says it ain't there.

179
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,320
Speaker 3: Well, that's what they do on the show. They wrap

180
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,840
Speaker 3: it up in an hour. Case closed.

181
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,440
Speaker 2: So in thirty years, I've had exactly zero cases wrapped

182
00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 2: up in an hour. You know, some go my way, don't,

183
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 2: but I can assure you that between the last commercial

184
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 2: break and the rolling credits, the case isn't over.

185
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

186
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: And so look, we're obviously seeing this tremendous amount of evidence,

187
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: from the timeline of the car movements to those final

188
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: calls we heard at least Keith's end of it, from

189
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: the surveillance video, the bank account issue, what and we

190
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: know we've seen this in trials. Obviously, the defense doesn't

191
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: have to put any witnesses forward. They don't have to

192
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 1: necessarily even present a case. They've just been trying to

193
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 1: do so with the cross examination. But can you imagine

194
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: who the defense would call, what their defense could be

195
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,559
Speaker 1: if they so choose to put on a defense.

196
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 2: So I think that if they're going to put on

197
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 2: a defense here, it's going to be a couple of areas.

198
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 2: One that Paul's family was not in financial straits. They

199
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 2: were not in financial disaster, okay, so that he did

200
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 2: have other streams of income. I would also put on

201
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 2: someone maybe his wife, not sure, but somebody who says

202
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 2: Paul adored his brother. Paul adored his niece and nephew.

203
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 2: They had a very close relationship. He would never, under

204
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 2: any circumstances kill all the family. He wasn't like that.

205
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 2: These these brothers were extremely extremely close. That Corey was

206
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,560
Speaker 2: strained from the family essentially is where I would go

207
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 2: with that. But that's it. That's essentially where you're going

208
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 2: to go. What physical evidence can he dispute. He's got

209
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 2: a problem with the little girl's DNA on his pants,

210
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 2: That's that's a problem. He's got a problem with the

211
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 2: timeline and the the video of him approaching the DVR

212
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 2: and then it being disabled. He's got a problem with that.

213
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 2: He's got a problem with his own timeline on where

214
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,840
Speaker 2: he was and his whereabouts. Maybe the the wife can

215
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 2: give a stronger alibi for him, saying that he was

216
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 2: in fact home. So things like that, amy they'll try

217
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 2: and attack, but the theme, it's very hard to attack

218
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 2: a theme when the day before we hear from the

219
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 2: decedent's own voice the anger, the frustration, the hurt when

220
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 2: he realizes that his brother has stolen this money that

221
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 2: went that was to go to his children in the

222
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 2: case he died, in the case, that something happened to him,

223
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: and that not only was it stolen, that he had

224
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 2: lied to him for months and essentially cooked the books

225
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 2: when the accountant took a look at it.

226
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,040
Speaker 3: You listened off a few things, right, It's a problem,

227
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 3: and these things are a problem for one side or

228
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,280
Speaker 3: the other in the case. Is it a problem at

229
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 3: all for the prosecution? Do they have to overcome it all?

230
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 3: The idea that this guy sitting here in v sweaters

231
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 3: with glasses on, who doesn't have some criminal history, who

232
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 3: seemed to be a good family guy, can stab his

233
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,840
Speaker 3: eight year old and eleven year old niece and nephew.

234
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 3: You're going to have to prove to meet this guy

235
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 3: is some kind of fricking monster.

236
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is incomprehensible for most of us, Right,

237
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 2: He's not somebody that's sitting there that has long terminal history.

238
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 2: Tatta up? You know someone who? I mean, he looks

239
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: he looks like a good guy. He looks like a

240
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 2: guy that you know I'd sit down and have a

241
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 2: conversation with. Why not. He's got those nice room glasses,

242
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 2: you know, he looks he looks good. But remember Leslie

243
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 2: Abrams and did a heck of a job dressing up

244
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: the Menendez brothers with those little sweater vests. And it

245
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 2: didn't it didn't preclude a conviction in that case. Yeah,

246
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 2: you do you think I'd pull that one out? Had

247
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:47,600
Speaker 2: to to.

248
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 3: You know, I forgot. I just pictured them again and

249
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, yeah, they were presented in that way.

250
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 3: I just struggle with the girl is a big reality.

251
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 2: The brutality.

252
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 3: How is that? But is that something the prosecution knows

253
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,159
Speaker 3: they have to overcome with a jury. It's hard to

254
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 3: get my head around this man stabbing a child seventeen

255
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 3: times that's related to him.

256
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,200
Speaker 1: I was going to ask the exact same question, babe,

257
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: because I had the same thought, like as.

258
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 2: A jury why, but they have a why.

259
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,199
Speaker 3: Seventy eight grand is not a big enough why for me?

260
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 2: Stab your not why.

261
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,560
Speaker 3: That's why it was that he's losing his life. That's

262
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 3: what they said.

263
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: Three million dollar life insurance policy. And this is why.

264
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,119
Speaker 2: Let me explain the kids part in that. So Paul

265
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 2: has to in order for Paul and Corey to collect.

266
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 2: Not only does Keith have to die, who then the

267
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 2: beneficiaries his wife? So his wife has to die. If

268
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,360
Speaker 2: the wife dies, the money goes to the children. If

269
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 2: the children die, both of them, then it goes to

270
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,160
Speaker 2: Paul and Corey. And that's three millions. That's a lot

271
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 2: of money.

272
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 3: They said they would have to split it, right, that

273
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 3: three million? And their argument is that a case for

274
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 3: Corey given that if he frames his brother Paul, then

275
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 3: he gets the whole three million? Is that not any

276
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 3: reasonable anywhere close to reasonable doubt?

277
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 2: I want to hear what the defense has to say.

278
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 2: I want to hear what evidence they have to prove

279
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: that Corey was in the vicinity. I want to hear

280
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 2: how they explain how Corey could have planted the clothes

281
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:43,880
Speaker 2: and the and the gas, you know, in the gas canisters.

282
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 3: He didn't immediately shoot me down. That's a win for

283
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 3: question was a win?

284
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 2: I want to hear. I want to hear and look,

285
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 2: you know I'm somebody as you know that. Look I'm

286
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 2: a defense attorney. I poke holes and things. I questioned things.

287
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,199
Speaker 2: I say to myself, all right, if I'm the attorney here,

288
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 2: where am I going? What can I prove? What? You know?

289
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: What are the weak points? And here the problem? You're right,

290
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: just overcoming the brutality of people that you love and

291
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 2: you've helped raise, and you were you were at their baptisms,

292
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 2: and you were at their birthday parties and they called

293
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 2: you uncle whatever. Okay, that is very hard for a

294
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 2: jury to wrap their head around. However, however, they are dead.

295
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 2: These children did die. And if the prosecution proves their case,

296
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 2: they don't have to prove a motive, but they did

297
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,959
Speaker 2: they explain the motive. They don't have to prove a motive,

298
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 2: but they did say, this guy's got three million dollars

299
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: or half of coming to him. If everybody in Keith's

300
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 2: family is wiped.

301
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: Out, ooh, I am going to be and I think

302
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: we all are going to be privetted to the defense

303
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: because it almost seems like to TJ's point, with the brutality,

304
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking, like, if you're planning to kill your

305
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 1: brother and his entire family, isn't there a less gruesome,

306
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: horrific way to do it other than to stab your

307
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 1: eight year old niece seventeen times and once in the eye.

308
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 3: That is so hard to get around.

309
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: So how important then, I would think, given that what

310
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: you just said, getting his wife or getting his daughters

311
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: up on that stand to talk about what a good

312
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 1: guy he is is really kind of maybe even the

313
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: only way you would possibly feel like you would struggle

314
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: with finding a guilty perth.

315
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: That's right, And I don't think that his attorneys will

316
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: put him on I don't think that they could subject

317
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 2: him to a cross examination. So what you can get

318
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: that relationship been and the love that he had in

319
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: through the wife for his adult daughters.

320
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we will be watching Alison Treesel always

321
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 1: so interesting to get your expertise, your legal opinion on

322
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,160
Speaker 1: what we're watching. We're constantly as we're following these trials,

323
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: and we have them up all day every day. We're riveted,

324
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 1: but we always say beforehand. This is coming from no

325
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: legal mind. This is just what I think a juror

326
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: might be thinking. But it's so great to actually talk

327
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: to someone who does have said legal mind. So we

328
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,239
Speaker 1: appreciate you walking down this journey with us my love

329
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: viewers sake as well, so they don't have to hear

330
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: our uninformed opinions.

331
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 2: My pleasure.

332
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, Alison Triesel, and we will be talking to

333
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: you soon