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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

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Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's Thursday if you're hearing

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Speaker 1: this the day it comes out, which means in his

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Speaker 1: time for a weekly listener male segment, what's going on

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Speaker 1: with Facebook ads? How much do you know about your grandparents?

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Speaker 1: What are some of the most exclusive, slash dangerous museums

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Speaker 1: you have ever visited? We'll have three of our fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realists giving you their own takes on each of

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Speaker 1: those questions. And what better way to start, then, uh

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Speaker 1: than to go, you know, back into a little bit

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Speaker 1: of ancestry. I think we all have in our lives

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Speaker 1: a relative, maybe an immediate family member, maybe someone a

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Speaker 1: little more distant, who has a sketchy past or has

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Speaker 1: gaps that aren't explained. You know, Ben, that's not every

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Speaker 1: keeping you I feel. Are you saying some people are

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Speaker 1: every bit as wholesome as they see that perhaps many

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Speaker 1: of us just don't know yet. I think that's I

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Speaker 1: think that's correct. Yeah, until it gets to like the

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Speaker 1: deathbed confession or the revelations upon going through a loved

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Speaker 1: one's possessions and you you figure out, oh wow, this

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Speaker 1: my my uncle was dB Cooper or something, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Or maybe your grandmother shows you a

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Speaker 1: VHS tape and you go, holy crap, are you talking

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Speaker 1: about Archive eighty one there, Matt, kind of but in

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Speaker 1: a way that one listener's very own Archive one. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we're all eighties kids. By the way, Look I'm putting

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Speaker 1: this out here. I have COVID. I just found out

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Speaker 1: I have COVID. I feel weird as hell. It's not great.

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Speaker 1: We're no, it's okay. We're just recording while we do this.

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Speaker 1: It's just ride the crazy COVID snake of dementia to Valhalla. Baby.

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Speaker 1: That's what that's all you can do. That's what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: which gets me to eighties, eighties kids and that that

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Speaker 1: we are. Uh do you guys remember a weird thing

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Speaker 1: called photo Matt. Yes, do you remember this? Wait? I

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Speaker 1: mean there was there is the photo Matt, which is like,

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Speaker 1: you know what they used to call the place where

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Speaker 1: you go get photos printed and duplicated. But what is

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Speaker 1: photo Matt? Was this like some sort of proto app

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Speaker 1: of some kind? Yeah, yes, way out. I think by

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Speaker 1: the time I would remember, but I remember hearing of

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Speaker 1: the and then seeing then in media. My I want

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Speaker 1: to say, my grandmother in Ohio is the reason that

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Speaker 1: I remember them because we would go and visit my

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Speaker 1: family in Ohio and in the shopping centers there would be,

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Speaker 1: like you said, been a little kiosk that exists as

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Speaker 1: a hut kind of just kind of sitting out in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the parking lot that you could drop

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Speaker 1: off your exposed you know photos too for you know,

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Speaker 1: the the actual film. It would get shipped off and

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Speaker 1: processed in a day, and then you could come and

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Speaker 1: pick it up again at the same place. Well, just

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Speaker 1: keep that in mind, that image in mind as we

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Speaker 1: hear from Graham. Hey, guys, so I was talking to

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Speaker 1: one of my buddies today that reminded me of something

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Speaker 1: that you guys might find very interesting. So when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, My grandmother called me and asked me

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Speaker 1: to come up to her house as she had something

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Speaker 1: to show me on her VHS player, and she popped

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Speaker 1: in the VHS and it turned out to be the

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Speaker 1: episode of the TV show America's Most Wanted. So my

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Speaker 1: grandfather was the subject of this show, America's Most Wanted,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very interesting crime tail. His name was

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Speaker 1: Clifford Carol Graham. He was the founder of an old

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Speaker 1: drive through photo developing company called photo Mats, and then

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Speaker 1: once he developed photo Maat, he got into verious different

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Speaker 1: business ventures. And he then invented a company called au Magnetic,

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Speaker 1: which created this almost oil spire looking thing that you

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Speaker 1: could dump in a bucket of sand and it would

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Speaker 1: separate all of the precious materials from the bucket of sand.

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Speaker 1: But instead of using the investor's money to invest in

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Speaker 1: the product, him and his business counterparts decided to take

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Speaker 1: all of the money and keep it for themselves. So

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Speaker 1: with that they were really high level investors, the vice

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Speaker 1: President of the United States and people that were running

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Speaker 1: for Congress, and people that were film executives. And at

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Speaker 1: one point he owned the largest yacht in the San

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Speaker 1: Diego Harbor, the private yacht in San Diego Harbor, and

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Speaker 1: the dude bought being Crosby's mansion, and then the FBI

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Speaker 1: said we're onto you, and he disappeared. Nobody from my

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Speaker 1: family has ever seen him ever since. And my grandmother's

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Speaker 1: theory is that he got involved in the world of

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Speaker 1: the mob, the mafia, and instead of giving all of

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Speaker 1: the money to the proper people, he decided to keep it,

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Speaker 1: and the mafia opted him. You guys should go check

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Speaker 1: that out. It's a wildly fascinating tale. Hope to hear

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Speaker 1: from you soon, see you, Matt. We should point out

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Speaker 1: also that yeah, two things immediately. First, I was always

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Speaker 1: bothered by the idea of photo mats or even the

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Speaker 1: photo processing centers at you know, your local drug store,

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Speaker 1: because there are war stories about what people submitted to

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Speaker 1: those things, you know, embarrassing stuff, evidence of horrendous criminal activity.

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Speaker 1: And there was his brief period right before the cloud

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Speaker 1: enabled smartphones came in where you could take a picture

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Speaker 1: and not have it immediately be observed by someone else

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Speaker 1: somewhere along the way. But with uh anonymous here, I

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Speaker 1: think we should say you spoke with this person earlier

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Speaker 1: today correct. Yes, Graham is the name that we're going

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Speaker 1: with here. Um. Yes, I spoke with Graham earlier today. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you about that conversation. But

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Speaker 1: first I want to lay out a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that you heard in that message from Graham. First of all,

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Speaker 1: the name the full name of the person, Clifford Graham

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Speaker 1: or Clifford Carol Graham. That's the person who's featured on

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Speaker 1: the America's Most Wanted episode, the grandfather of our caller. Um.

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Speaker 1: That person has a really interesting past and you can

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Speaker 1: learn a lot about it. There are numerous places online

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Speaker 1: you can go to right now, such as the Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Times, which has an archived article from six titled

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Speaker 1: financier indicted in mineral scheme Clifford Graham missing since charged

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Speaker 1: in thirteen million dollar gold operation. There's stuff in Newsweek

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Speaker 1: you can read right now, with an article titled all

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Speaker 1: That Glitters from nine. Uh. Just all kinds of really

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff that you can read right now if you

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Speaker 1: wish to go check this story out that was described

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Speaker 1: to us. Graham mentions, I think a vice president of

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Speaker 1: the United States that was caught up in this. I

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Speaker 1: have to make a slight correction there. This person was

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Speaker 1: never holding the office of Vice President of the United States.

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Speaker 1: But there was a candidate running for the presidency who

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Speaker 1: was caught up in in the whole scheme and was

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Speaker 1: an investor. That person was Jack Kemp, who was running

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Speaker 1: with Bob Dole for the presidency that I remember. I remember. Alright, Pete,

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Speaker 1: surely Bob Dole has passed as well, right, he had to.

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Speaker 1: He was already like a hundred back in those days

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Speaker 1: when we remember him. Yeah, Bob Dole. Bob Dole did

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Speaker 1: pass away quite recently December. Uh yes, wait, Ted, that's

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Speaker 1: right around the time nor McDonald died. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a real cloud atlas moment for them. But but also,

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Speaker 1: the weirdest thing about that, whenever somebody brings up like

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Speaker 1: a Bob Dole or something for me, is that Henry

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Speaker 1: Kissinger is still alive. There's nothing. It's just it's weird, right,

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Speaker 1: It's weird that he would Anyway, that's a story for

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Speaker 1: another day. So, Matt, yesked, Bob Dole. Remember Bob Dole.

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Speaker 1: He was he was taken in by the scheme. Um No,

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Speaker 1: but not Bob Dole. Okay, he was running for president

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Speaker 1: his vice presidential candidate, or the person who would have

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Speaker 1: been vice president had he won, was a guy named

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Speaker 1: Jack Kemp. And you can read in that Newsweek article

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Speaker 1: all that glitters about Jack Kemp's um. Maybe, but he

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Speaker 1: had a friendship apparently with Clifford Graham as well as

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Speaker 1: many other people. When you meant Ben, you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: I talked with Graham the caller earlier coming on my

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Speaker 1: brain falk here, Graham mentioned to me other weird connections

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Speaker 1: that this guy his grandfather had in Sacramento and San

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Speaker 1: Diego specifically. Do you guys remember Jack Lolane? But television

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Speaker 1: personality of some kind? He was? He was. He was

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Speaker 1: a television personality, fitness guru if you like. He's remembered

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Speaker 1: now as a guy who had a television show. This

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Speaker 1: is one of the first of its kind where he

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Speaker 1: would show you work out techniques while you know, from

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Speaker 1: the from your television, and then you at home would

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Speaker 1: work out with him. I remember he's got a show

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Speaker 1: called Beefcake. Yeah, and I just love the word love

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Speaker 1: the word beefcake. Has he been dramatized somewhere though, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've seen him in like a like as

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Speaker 1: a character and like a once upon a time at

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Speaker 1: Hollywood esque thing. He was not definitely like one of

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Speaker 1: those guys who would play himself in things. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jack Colaine, like world renowned for again for fitness um

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Speaker 1: and for for health stuff like that. But this dude

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Speaker 1: was friends with Jack Lolane. And because Clifford that's his name,

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Speaker 1: he was a bodybuilder around the same time with Jack Lolane.

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Speaker 1: They became friends down there in San Diego. He was

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Speaker 1: friends with a lot of very important people and that's

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Speaker 1: how he got around a hundred individuals to invest big

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Speaker 1: money in this scheme. This concept of having some kind

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Speaker 1: of coil basically that you could use to separate precious

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Speaker 1: minerals from sand particles like regular old sand particles or

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Speaker 1: other mining what would you call like post mining materials,

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Speaker 1: just like a centrifuge type thing where it like separates

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Speaker 1: out different, uh you know, types of material by spending

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Speaker 1: it around theoretically, but it's not a centrifuge necessarily. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen the actual device, and that's just a nature

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Speaker 1: of time at this point. Probably it was a device

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Speaker 1: that was supposedly developed in the nineteen eighties by this

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Speaker 1: company that Clifford started, called a u Magnetics and you

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Speaker 1: can read about this supposed company that they created. It's like, um,

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Speaker 1: it reminds me of just one of these companies that

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Speaker 1: gets a lot of early stage funding and then just

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Speaker 1: before it's about to come out, it just collapses in

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Speaker 1: on itself almost um. But it's it's because the technology

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Speaker 1: is too good to be true. It's like it's like

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Speaker 1: a company is developing tech that may possibly do something

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Speaker 1: in the future, but it's nowhere near there yet, and

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Speaker 1: a ton of people get excited about the possibilities of

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Speaker 1: this thing, but that money is not going to go

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Speaker 1: anywhere in the end because it's just not possible yet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like that, what was that the blood testing debacle that

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Speaker 1: was recently Or for anybody who wants a really wild ride,

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Speaker 1: check out no spoilers, but check out the Dale car

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Speaker 1: saga on car stuff. It is even if you don't

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Speaker 1: like cars, it's you're gonna be amazed, but yes, this happens,

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Speaker 1: people get built. Or the Nicola. The Nicola electric car

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Speaker 1: is the same thing. It's one of those things where

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Speaker 1: it's like they have a maybe a prototype of some kind,

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Speaker 1: or maybe it's not even a real prototype. It's actually

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Speaker 1: just like a working model of some kind or a

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Speaker 1: scale model, and they're hoping that they get enough interest,

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Speaker 1: they'll have enough of the funds to actually make the

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Speaker 1: tech reel. But it's all kind of blue sky and bullshit.

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Speaker 1: Then it's just a weird, weird tale and you can

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Speaker 1: dive into it. I really, guys, I think we should

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Speaker 1: for a full episode just because the this kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: it's something that happens nowadays. And also this guy has

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Speaker 1: a really interesting story, Like the FBI was on his

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Speaker 1: heels at all times, apparently at least according to Graham

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Speaker 1: h And he carried a gun with him at all times,

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Speaker 1: and he may have had some kind of organized crime

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Speaker 1: connection or activity going on a least according to his grandmother,

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Speaker 1: her caller's grandmother m He was also really good friends

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Speaker 1: with a group of people who started Gold's Jim. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember Gold's Jim Sure Muscle Beach Baby. He also

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Speaker 1: is the founder of the U, the founding member of

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Speaker 1: the President's Council on Physical Fitness. If you guys remember

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Speaker 1: being forced to do chin ups, you know, an elementary

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Speaker 1: school and Arnold Schwarzenegger yelling at you that was what

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Speaker 1: that was about. All the way back to nineteen six

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Speaker 1: in with big business with dal Chemical. Uh. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: family member, some family members of dal Chemical actually put

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Speaker 1: money into this au It's the made off thing. Never

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Speaker 1: if if you're going to execute a grift, got to

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Speaker 1: be very careful which wealthier ruling class people you swindle, right,

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Speaker 1: because like if Bernie made Off was just ripping off

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Speaker 1: poor people, he would have a couple of islands now,

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Speaker 1: but he would have he would have of the people

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Speaker 1: who uh write the laws, so they got this dude

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Speaker 1: really did by bing Crosby's mansion and he really did

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Speaker 1: own the biggest yacht in San Diego. Like it's true.

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Speaker 1: He just had that kind of money and something happened

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Speaker 1: and he ran off with the money or he disappeared, Yeah, disappeared.

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Speaker 1: Uh Apparently our callers grandmother believes that he escaped to

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Speaker 1: Mexico with the money and lived out his life. It's

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Speaker 1: very unlikely that he is still alive. Our callers grandmother

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Speaker 1: just celebrated her ninetieth birthday and he was quite a

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Speaker 1: bit older, so he would be right around a hundred

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Speaker 1: years old today if you were possible. But it would

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Speaker 1: be extraordinary, especially given that the kind of medical care

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Speaker 1: you would need at that age would increasingly raise your

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Speaker 1: chances of popping back up on the radar. Agreed. So again,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot here, guys, but I think for today

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Speaker 1: we can kind of leave it at this. Uh. If

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Speaker 1: you're interested in more information, look up Clifford C L

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Speaker 1: I F F O R D Graham, g R A

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Speaker 1: H A M. And you will find that stuff if

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Speaker 1: you want to. I don't know if you can actually

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Speaker 1: get a hold of this episode or not, but America's

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Speaker 1: Most Wanted Season seven, episode two, which first released on

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Speaker 1: January four, n will have his story. Well, you can

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Speaker 1: find it at bet uh. To quote one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite sci fi movies, you can't stop the signal, Ah,

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Speaker 1: but the signal from ninet. It's somewhere, It's out there,

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Speaker 1: out there. My question was, was it ever digitized and

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Speaker 1: not buy somebody with a VHS player. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I would just say it's such a popular show though,

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Speaker 1: that it would make sense for someone to digitize it

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Speaker 1: for syndication purposes. No. Maybe America's Most Wanted feels like

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Speaker 1: a very like time and place kind of thing, you know, dude,

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you really differentiated that much from Unsolved mysteries.

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Speaker 1: I guess you're right, America's Most Wanted as kind of

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Speaker 1: the television version of like the Jail Report, you know,

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Speaker 1: bigger picture, though, I think that the look if they

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Speaker 1: didn't digitize it, I think somebody probably should have lost

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Speaker 1: their job, because I would think there would be a

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Speaker 1: whole network of content to be had out of digitized

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Speaker 1: episodes of America's Most Wanted. Certainly, I'm checking on that too.

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Speaker 1: I just went it, just popped over to a couple

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Speaker 1: of places, and I'm looking to see if it's on

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Speaker 1: some kind of streaming service. Might be surprised if it wasn't,

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Speaker 1: just because it had so much attention so far. Just

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Speaker 1: where I'm stiffing around, it's already much easier to find

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Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries. Fox dot com allegedly has full episodes. Allegedly. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I like how you think they might be shady there,

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Speaker 1: secretly run by Graham. Well, all right, here's the thing

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Speaker 1: they've got, like an updated America's Most Wanted right show

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Speaker 1: featuring Elizabeth Vargas rather than the America's Most Watching. Wait,

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Speaker 1: Paul Holes is involved in this too, Oh boy, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's it on this story guys, why don't

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Speaker 1: we take a quick word from our sponsor and then

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back. And we're back, and uh, it

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Speaker 1: turns out I have COVID too, So I am also

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Speaker 1: a little brain foggy today. So I distinctly picked this

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Speaker 1: listener mail because I knew that Ben, that it would

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Speaker 1: hold a special place in your heart and that it

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Speaker 1: would have plenty for you to banter about. So I

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Speaker 1: could just kind of shut up and suffer in silence.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, thanks for doing this show. Guys. You know

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Speaker 1: it's rough peak behind the current. All three of us

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Speaker 1: are into the weather. I I did test negative so far,

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Speaker 1: but I probably have something like the flu. Uh. We also,

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Speaker 1: off air, we're talking about this is how important the

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Speaker 1: show is to us. Folks. We were pushing through the

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Speaker 1: show Musko one, but we also know with unfortunately intimate

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Speaker 1: experiential knowledge that those rapid at home tests are not

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Speaker 1: a hundred percent accurate. What was it you were saying

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Speaker 1: the whole off air? You were like, I only trusted

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Speaker 1: if it's if it gives, it would be a positive.

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Speaker 1: And well, yeah, I mean my girlfriend tested. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was this is a fighting on my girlfriend. She's

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Speaker 1: very aware of her body. That sounds like some hippie,

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Speaker 1: But what I mean to say is she runs very

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Speaker 1: cool in terms of her temperature, and she woke up

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and felt like she

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Speaker 1: maybe had a tiny fever, took her temperature, had a temperature,

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Speaker 1: and she never runs a temperature since the next morning,

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Speaker 1: She's like, Okay, I have no other symptoms. About the

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Speaker 1: fact that I had a one degree temperature for five minutes.

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Speaker 1: It had gone down at this point. So we got

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Speaker 1: our at home test and it was negative. She didn't

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Speaker 1: trust that wedn't got a PCR test. It was positive. Um,

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Speaker 1: I tested negative with my at home test, but I'm

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Speaker 1: waiting on the PCR test. But I have the same

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Speaker 1: symptoms that that Matt has and that us some others

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Speaker 1: that I know, well, you know, you know, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: It actually feels to me the way it felt when

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Speaker 1: I got my booster shot. So that's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a familiar feeling. So I'm I'm positive that I have it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's brain fog, kind of achiness and like hot and cold,

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's icky. But it's it's not the

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Speaker 1: end of the world, obviously, we're here powering through. We

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Speaker 1: do it for you, good people of the conspiracy fear,

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Speaker 1: we do it for you. For the record, my at

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Speaker 1: home test was like neon pink on that line. It

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Speaker 1: was crazy anyway, just um oh, and thanks to Ben

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Speaker 1: for providing me with the at home tests, along with

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Speaker 1: some Christmas gifts that what I had not gotten to

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Speaker 1: get from him yet. Um an incredible hat that I'm

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00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,199
Speaker 1: in love with, and a book about dumb birds of

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Speaker 1: North America because I think probably one of the most

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Speaker 1: thoughtful gifts I've ever received. And by the way, day

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend wanted me to tell you specifically how much

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Speaker 1: she loves it. It's the one, you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: one book that I thought would uh would be of

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00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: comfort for you in that kind of genre. And if

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Speaker 1: you read the descriptions, they're amazing. Part of French here,

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00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: but it's like the common North American pigeon and the

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Speaker 1: first description is this motherfucker and it's just roasting birds

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Speaker 1: for the length of the gotta I gotta tell you, Ben,

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00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 1: it's going in my bathroom, um, you know, because I

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Speaker 1: want everyone to see it. You know, you gotta put

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Speaker 1: your best like coffee table esque books in the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: So this is like a solid bathroom reader. It's also

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Speaker 1: the perfect size. I've got a little kind of toilet

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Speaker 1: paper shelf, kind of closet thing that goes right in

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Speaker 1: from the toilet. People will not miss it. Man, It's

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Speaker 1: gonna live there. But thank you dearly. UH. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, in exchange, I give you the gift of

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Speaker 1: this email a uh this email from UH from Melbourne. UM,

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Speaker 1: from our pal Will in Melbourne. He says, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: love the podcast. Always listen to you on my road

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Speaker 1: trips down the coast of Victoria, Australia. I just finished

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Speaker 1: episode Suton Secret Museums and wanted to share my experience.

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Speaker 1: By the way, a bunch of awesome feedback from that episode.

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Speaker 1: I personally had a ball on that episode. I think

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Speaker 1: we all did. I think it was just, in general,

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Speaker 1: a really fun conversation UM because he doesn't love a

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Speaker 1: good museum, and there's so many freaking weird ones out there,

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Speaker 1: uh as and we found out about tons of more.

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Speaker 1: I think we should maybe even do a follow up

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Speaker 1: and read some other people's suggestions because there are some

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Speaker 1: great ones. UM. But Will goes on in twelve. I

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Speaker 1: actually traveled to North Korea for eight days. I was

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Speaker 1: there for Kim Il sung's one hundred birthday celebrations, so

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Speaker 1: got to experience some pretty cool things, including the big

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Speaker 1: military parade in person. Our tour also took us to

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Speaker 1: all the main museums, including the Victorious War Museum. It's

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Speaker 1: the names of these are amazing. The pyeong Yang Metro Museum.

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised it's not of excellence or greatness uh. And

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Speaker 1: the International Friendship Exhibition, which showcases gifts to Kim Jong

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Speaker 1: il and Kim Il sung from international dignitaries and leaders

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Speaker 1: from around the world. The museums and monuments throughout the

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Speaker 1: country are exactly what you'd imagine, propaganda all the way,

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Speaker 1: but the propaganda adds to the whole experience of visiting

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Speaker 1: the country. Another incredible thing about North Korea is that

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Speaker 1: they have theme parks and roller coasters everywhere. Uh. Never

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Speaker 1: seen so many roller coasters and we even got to

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Speaker 1: try some out. Um Ben does this track? Yeah, absolutely

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Speaker 1: believe our fellow conspiracy realists from Melbourne was did visit

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Speaker 1: this country and did witness these things. Because the hundred

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Speaker 1: Earth Day celebrations, We're huge to do obviously, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then also because this is an Australian national writing

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Speaker 1: to us, so a little bit easier to get in

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Speaker 1: if you're not a Yankee. Yeah. No, no, that's a

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00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: good point, he said. He his next story talks about

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Speaker 1: studying abroad, um for his study in international affairs, or

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Speaker 1: rather an international affairs think tank based in Melbourne. So

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Speaker 1: you guys very much cut from the same uh in

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Speaker 1: an national cloth there, ben Um, was there anything else about, like,

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Speaker 1: I know, you just went to the d m Z

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Speaker 1: where you say they're they're really into birds, right, um.

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Speaker 1: And and there's either d m Z in and of

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00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: itself is like a mini museum kind of right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good way to put it, because the uh,

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Speaker 1: the d m Z is off limits to the vast,

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Speaker 1: you know, vast majority of humanity. Obviously. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a nature preserve in some ways. You will also

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Speaker 1: see so many relics of the days before the armistice,

404
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: right because the two countries are still technically at war. Um.

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Speaker 1: The thing about theme parks and roller coasters, it's also

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00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: a really good point. And you don't hear, uh, the

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Speaker 1: you don't hear like the Western media report a lot

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00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 1: of that stuff. I would be very interested to hear

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Speaker 1: about the food. I don't know why that's always one

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Speaker 1: of my first questions is the food. But yeah, you'll

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Speaker 1: you'll also see um on both sides of the border.

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Speaker 1: You'll see like tourist industry, things that you buy, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I was surprised by the preponderance of gift shops

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Speaker 1: on the South Korean side of the border. Right, who

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Speaker 1: doesn't love a good gift shop. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we mentioned that in our Secret Museums episodes, but I

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Speaker 1: walked away thinking because I just really listened to that,

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Speaker 1: and I I too enjoyed the conversation. I walked away

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Speaker 1: thinking why didn't we talk about the gift shops? Like

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Speaker 1: does the CIA Museum have a gift shop? What can

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00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: you buy there? That would be so cool? We need

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00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: to find out. I want to go and buy things

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Speaker 1: from there. Right, can you get like Jack the Rippers

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Speaker 1: murder weapon from the Black Museum over there in the UK?

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Speaker 1: I doubt it, but they might sell a replica. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Uh, this so the coolest thing here so far.

427
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what you guys think about this, but

428
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: have you seen pictures of the Friendship Museum. It's it's

429
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: worth a look just because it's all like like you said, no,

430
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: it is all tokens of appreciation that have been given

431
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: to the leaders of North Korea, and it's it's um,

432
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: it's got some pretty baller stuff in there. Uh, it's

433
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: huge too. Are there any mummified animals per chance? Just

434
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: wondering for a friend that's a good question. I you know,

435
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not sure what they're what their weirdest

436
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: or most unique things would have been. Um. North Korea

437
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: was formed well after the European mummy fat or mummy craze,

438
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: when when they were you know, uh, dissecting mummies and

439
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: when they were burning them for cordwood and destroying ancient

440
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: history for kicks. So they wouldn't have they wouldn't have

441
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: been around to get a mummy at that time. But

442
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: I could absolutely see it being a gift that a

443
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: foreign dignitary would want to give somebody. But they have

444
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: something like mammals, right, I think there's a there's a

445
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: weird thing apparently with dictators and taxidermy. Oh yeah, yeah.

446
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: Allegedly Fidel Castro gave him. I think a crocodile briefcase,

447
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: so like crocodile skin. M hm, it's pretty bosh. That

448
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: is bosh. And and then uh, you can sort of

449
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: what's interesting about those museums is you can learn a

450
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: lot about the relationship between two countries based on the gifts.

451
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: Like a very big, prestigious, unique, distinctive gift, it is

452
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: probably going to come from a communist country right at

453
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: the time, because DPR case still describes itself as practicing

454
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: ju chaj by the way, just basically means subject. It's

455
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: the ideology breaks down quickly, That's what I'm saying. But

456
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: then if you see, um, if you see somebody who

457
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have either the wherewithal or the budget to

458
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: send something where they do out of the inclination to

459
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: send something very big and impressive, you'll see different associations

460
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: sending more modest gifts, Like the chairman of the Journalist

461
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: Association of Kuwait sent set of pens, which is nice,

462
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But obviously he was like,

463
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: we can't kill a crocodile for this guy. But you

464
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: know what the Sandinistas did of Nicaraguan fame. Uh, they

465
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: allegedly again according to Atlas Obscura handed over an upright

466
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: grinning alligator who's holding out a wooden tray of cocktail glasses.

467
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: Finally said that that's fun. That's festive. That sounds like

468
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: a New Orleans like dive bar, like Sizer would be

469
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: at the Starbar here or something. Yeah, or house on

470
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: the Rock. There's one fascinating point that we should make. Uh.

471
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: And I'm frankly no, I'm super excited about the second

472
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: part of this letter too. But there's one fascinating point

473
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: we should make, which is that while these may seem

474
00:27:54,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: uninteresting two people who are more aware of the wider world, uh,

475
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: or people who can go on the internet and look

476
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: at any number of crocodile skin and briefcases and what

477
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: have you, we have to remember that when we talked

478
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: about the demographic the intended audience of a museum, the

479
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: intended audience of the Friendship Museum, i would argue, is

480
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: not outsiders. The intended audience is the people of the DPRK,

481
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: and in that museum, they're gonna see a lot of

482
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: stuff that they would not normally see. Right. It's like

483
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: when you go to any new place, especially if you

484
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: go to a foreign country. You're going to be amazed

485
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: by stuff that people have just quickly normalized and accepted,

486
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, I've clearly looked like

487
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: an idiot so many times in so many places because

488
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: I'm just baffled, you know, I'm like, do we really

489
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: need guards with semi autos at this McDonald's, Or like,

490
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: what don't vending machine sell in Japan? The little things

491
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: can amaze you. So a lot of times when DPRK

492
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: nationals are visiting this museum, we have to understand that

493
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: they're seeing stuff they've never seen before, unless they've been

494
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: to that museum before, which is I don't know, profound degree.

495
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: We'll go through the second part of the email narrow

496
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: quick um. He goes on. Will that is In seventeen,

497
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to visit the Foreign Museum of

498
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: the Islamic Republic of Iran in Tehran as part of

499
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: a study tour with an international affairs think tank based

500
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: in Melbourne, Australia. We were actually sponsored by the Iranian

501
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: government and as part of the tour, our group met

502
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: with members of Iran's Foreign Ministry and they took us

503
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: on a tour of the ministry building including the museum

504
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: underneath it and includes all sorts of items like scripts

505
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: from the Qajar era, uh, portraits of foreign ministers dating

506
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: back hundreds of years, and documents stolen from the old

507
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: U s Embassy when it was rated during the revolution

508
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy nine. No tourists entering Iran get

509
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: access to this museum unless they're invited by the Foreign Ministry,

510
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: so we were pretty lucky to visit um. I just

511
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: wanted to share my experience with you because there probably

512
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: aren't too many people who have shared this experience. Once again,

513
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: I love the podcast and looking forward to many more

514
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: awesome episodes. Two cheers well from Melbourne. I would agree.

515
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: I think that Ben, it seems like you confirm that

516
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 1: this was a very very special, unique experience that our

517
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: boy Will had. Yeah. Uh, you guys know you guys

518
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: know this. We know each other pretty well this far

519
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: into the game. Uh Iran is one of those countries

520
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: that's on my dream list, especially the ancient uh the

521
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: ancient parts of Tehran. It's just the Persian Empire played

522
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: such a huge role in the development of what we

523
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: call civilization today, and it's it's a shame like I

524
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: like many other people in the audience today, right, I

525
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: know folks who live in Iran. Now I've never met

526
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: them in person, or well, I've met a few in person,

527
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: but then they had to travel back, and it's really

528
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: it's really difficult if you are Iranian American. It's really

529
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: difficult for you to travel from the US to Iran

530
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: and back because the government may detain you. It's tough

531
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: to get in, especially as an American. Maybe the only

532
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: other country that would have a tougher time would be Israel.

533
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: So it's the odds against us seeing this museum are

534
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: very very high. And will I don't know if it's uh,

535
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: I mean obviously that that's quite a coup, although coup

536
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: would be a poor choice of words that we're talking

537
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: about Iran, wouldn't. It's it's uh. I mean, it's an

538
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: awesome achievement that you've got to see that there's so

539
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: much history there. I want to go, you know, I,

540
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: as Liz Lemon played by Tina Fey, always says, I

541
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: want to go to there. I mean, I have you

542
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: guys ever wanted to go to Iran? Have you read

543
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: like much about its ancient history or its food? Uh?

544
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: I do love the cuisine for sure, and I mean

545
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: obviously it's you know, the cradle of civilization. I mean,

546
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: there's no reason to anybody that's that's fascinated by history

547
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: and culture wouldn't want to go there other than the

548
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: aforementioned uh, you know, complexities of of coming and going

549
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: from from that country. But yeah, I would absolutely be

550
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: on board to check it out if I knew that

551
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: I was going to be able to get in an

552
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: ounce safely. I think for someone from the US, you

553
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: would have to travel in a group and you would

554
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: probably have to have a government minder with you if

555
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: you're doing it legit. I don't know how helpful this

556
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: will be for our Australian listeners, but if you are

557
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: in the US, one of the first things you do

558
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: when you're thinking about traveling somewhere is to check the

559
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: Department of State. They'll have travel warnings, they'll have heads

560
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: up and uh. The reason you want to read those

561
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: travel warnings is, yes, read what they say, but also

562
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: read between the lines of what they're saying. There's a

563
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that goes into play here,

564
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: Like right now, for the let's see, you want to

565
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 1: go to this museum in Iran, as Will said, you know,

566
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: parts of the museum are restricted there by invitation only.

567
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: Other museums in Iran are open the public, you know,

568
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: like the National Museum and so on. But if you're

569
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: from the US, here's what the Department of State says

570
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: about traveling to Iran. They warn against all kinds of

571
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: travel that cross borders or boundaries between Afghanistan and Pakistan

572
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: and Iraq because of mass detention of citizens in those countries,

573
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: the probability of terrorist attacks. And then they say, due

574
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: to the increasing tensions between the US and Iran, it's

575
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: possible that a conflict could break out, and they don't

576
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: put an expiration date on that. So if you would

577
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: like to plan to travel to Iran and its borders,

578
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: just please be careful as you could get trapped. The

579
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: US does not have, you know, a strong diplomatic presence

580
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: in Iran, which is a shame because the you know,

581
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: I know, I'm self selecting here, you guys, but everyone

582
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: I've talked to has been really, like, really cool. The

583
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: people of Iran often are making a very sharp, conscious

584
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: distinction between the citizens of a government they don't like

585
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: and the government itself. So don't ever fall for that

586
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: kind of bellicost saber rattling when you see some pundit

587
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: on US television saying like Iran is rising, you know,

588
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: they hate the US. The government the government of Iran

589
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: definitely doesn't like the government of the US. But I'm

590
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: pretty confident that if you got like the director of

591
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: the spis Odian to hang out with the director of

592
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: this cool kind of secret museum in the Foreign Policy Building,

593
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: actually they get along famously, you know what I mean.

594
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: How do we get an invite? How do we will

595
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: pull some strings? Man, get us into Iran. We'll send

596
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: you a T shirt. Yeah you should, you should, Matt,

597
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 1: you don't want to go? No, No, are you gonna?

598
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,479
Speaker 1: Are you and I going on a buddy road trip

599
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: to Iran? Yeah? Man, Let me just get over this

600
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: plague and then I'll be right. Yeah. I might feel

601
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: different next week. We'll see. This letter says, you know,

602
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: Slayer says that you wanted to share your experience with

603
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: your fellow listeners will because you said there probably aren't

604
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 1: too many people who have who have had these experiences,

605
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right. And in both of those cases,

606
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: the reason that people from at least our country can't

607
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: in general go is because of ratcheting geopolitical tensions. That's it.

608
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: You know, you go to North Korea and the wrong

609
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: stuff happens, then that has nothing to do with you,

610
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: and you might become a bargaining chip even if you're

611
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: doing everything right. You know, it might just say, Hey,

612
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna hold Matt Frederick in Tehran until

613
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: we finished this nuclear talk, and we're gonna hold Noel

614
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: Brown and Pyong Gang until you know, we get this

615
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: a package worked out. I'll be I'll be your bargaining chip.

616
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't mind. I've got no State Department ties, so

617
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: I think I should be good say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

618
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: But this is like one other thing you point out,

619
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: and all that I really like about this is that

620
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: this is one excellent example of the many museums people

621
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: have told us about. I've reached out to find us

622
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: on email or personal or show social which is trickier

623
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: to say that I thought it would be, or have

624
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: called us directly. So keep them coming, because we are

625
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: you know, this is one of those things where we

626
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: might assemble a list of the best museums we've heard

627
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: of and just make a listener mail segment that's entirely that.

628
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? I mean, we're getting that

629
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: level of feedback here, Yes, the museum recommendations show. We're

630
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: gonna tell it a night at the museum there we go. Yeah,

631
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: like the movie for Children Emphi sequel with King Tut

632
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: and are there more than two? There's really there's a

633
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: whole night at the museum universe. Yeah, uh yeah, it

634
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: will probably eventually be an amusement park if it isn't.

635
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: You know? What's that? Ben Stiller Teddy Roosevelt played by

636
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: Robert Williams. Ah, yeah, Ben Stiller unfortunately was still with us.

637
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. He's great. Yeah, I do think his

638
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: best work is behind him. Apparently he's super super good

639
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: at ping pong. He was in Atlanta for a while

640
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: something and was that some local ping polling place, just

641
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: amazing people. He strikes me as being a really competitive guy.

642
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: You know what it is, it's the way he plays

643
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 1: himself on Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is obviously he's taking

644
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 1: the piss out of himself on purpose, but he plays

645
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: himself like a total jackass. So any negative thoughts I

646
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: have about Ben Stiller are based on his own dramatization

647
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: of himself as being a Hollywood jerk. So I take

648
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: back everything I said. Good good on you from being

649
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: having a sense of humor Ben Steller to be able

650
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: to poke fun at yourself. Yeah, go Ben's all day,

651
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: because I is gonna point back to his his appearance

652
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: on the show Extras where he plays like that amped

653
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: crazy version of himself. He's weirdly directing a movie about genocide,

654
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: and the guy's like, my coke is not cold, but

655
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: he's like gonna get this guy called coking it. But

656
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: he's like, clearly super annoying. This is not my problem.

657
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: But this is the guy who's like the they're kind

658
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: of consultant on this, like Armenian genocide film or web

659
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: I forget exactly with genocide. Yeah, no, it's very good. Okay,

660
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: enough of these shenanigans. Let's take a quick pause and

661
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: then then we'll come back with a different flavor of

662
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: shenanigans from you the listener. After a quick word from

663
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we have returned. We're heading back to

664
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: the phone lines for for an interesting conversation. This is

665
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: gonna be somewhat informal, but I think it's an experience

666
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: that everyone will be familiar with if you have in

667
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: any way, at any time participated in the social media

668
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: platform Facebook and its subsidiaries Instagram and probably later Uh,

669
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: this thing they're calling the metaverse. Check out our episode

670
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: on that, by the way. That was a fun one.

671
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: All right, So without further ado, let's hear from anonymous.

672
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: Hey guys, um, longtime ISH listener, first time caller. I

673
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: just started listening to you guys again after I picked

674
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: up my old slash new job again, and so I'm

675
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: listening to the podcast more often, and I've been listening

676
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: to you guys, and there's something that I don't think

677
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: you've covered, this exact niche of something that's happened to

678
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: me personally. Look, we all know that our phones listened

679
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: to us and sometimes watch us with our cameras and whatnot.

680
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: But have you ever heard of someone being like I

681
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: was just thinking about X product and then literally five

682
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: minutes later they see ads for the specific product, like

683
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: on Instagram or Facebook. That has happened to me. A

684
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: few years ago. I was thinking about this small company

685
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: called may Day Designs, I believe, and they make notebooks

686
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and stationary and stuff, and the small company. It's all online,

687
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: and I was just thinking while cleaning my room, oh,

688
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: I should see if I need new notebooks because I

689
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: think I'm almost filled. My phone was on the table

690
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: in the kitchen downstairs, and I was just there's in

691
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: my bedroom while I was thinking about that, and I

692
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: realized my phone wasn't with me, so I went down

693
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: to grab it. And I'm like just going through Instagram

694
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: the usual, and then bam, there's an ad that specific

695
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: company with the exact notebooks that I had. And I

696
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: hadn't bought anything in a year, and I haven't looked

697
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: about their Instagram account or anything like that, Like just

698
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: thinking about that notebook and then all of a sudden,

699
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: I get that that add. I don't know. It really

700
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: freaked me out. And I've told other people about this,

701
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: like over the years, this exact story, and if people say, wow,

702
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: that's weird. I was thinking about how I wanted to

703
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: for example, I don't remember the exact restaurant, but for example,

704
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: they're like, I wanted to go to Arby's, but there

705
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: really is an arby Is around, or I just I

706
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: know I shouldn't eat out as much. And then the

707
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: next thing that they knew there's going through Facebook and

708
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: there's an ad for Arby's. Didn't say anything out loud,

709
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: didn't look about the Internet. They were just thinking about

710
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: it while in their car on their drives one from

711
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: work and then bam ad for Arbies. So have any

712
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: of you guys experienced that or know someone who has,

713
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: because it really freaks me out. And UM, I like,

714
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know what you guys think if I'm just

715
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: connecting to desk, because our brains are kind of like

716
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, wired to do that, like making connections and stuff.

717
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: But it happens not often enough for it to be

718
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: a coincidence, and yet it's happened to enough people that

719
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: I feel like there's something else going on, and it

720
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: freaks me out. Let me know, you think I love

721
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: the show looking forward to hearing back from you. Well, well,

722
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: well we're talking about this all the time. This is uh,

723
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that you'll always see

724
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: think pieces on and come out and say, uh, no,

725
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: Facebook is not uh monitoring you that way the way

726
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: you think it's not listening to you, etcetera, etcetera. But

727
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I don't buy it at

728
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: this point because I know exactly what anonys has experienced.

729
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: Has something like this happened with you guys, dude, we

730
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: were just talking about it recently. I think it was

731
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: on this show about the ridiculous History shirt like with

732
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: with young Casey Pegram as a child, and you were

733
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: on a call I think with our there's some other

734
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: folks about the thing, and I was not on this call, um,

735
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: but you told you told us after the fact that

736
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 1: it came up about the shirt and then n abraca Dabra,

737
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you get served the ad not

738
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: only for particul those history shirts, but for that shirt

739
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: and um, all of this. I just think it's so obvious.

740
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: It bothers me that they just keeps vehemently denying it,

741
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: because I just think it has to be true. It

742
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: has to be true. I've seen it so many tapes, friends, family,

743
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: We've We've experienced it. You know. That's why a lot

744
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: of people use proxies, ad blockers, or just get off

745
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: get off Facebook altogether. Matt, back when you were a

746
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: little more active on social media, did you see it

747
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 1: ever run into stuff like this? I know we talked

748
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: about it at length over the years. Now, most of

749
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: what I saw was an aggregate of things I'd been

750
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: searching for and things that were on my calendars. That

751
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: makes sense, like calendars tied into your outlook. You know,

752
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of parts. It's fair game, I would say,

753
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: if you've granted access to you know, this was this

754
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: was when it was all Google. Several years back. Everything

755
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: was Google, and everything I did and every where I win,

756
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: everyone I communicated with was essentially Google unless it was

757
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: done you know, for work. And I would just notice

758
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: that stuff would get served to me when I was

759
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: either on a social media you know app or if

760
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: I was just browsing and I was using Chrome. It

761
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: just seemed like there was weird connections. But I couldn't

762
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: prove any of that. Um the anyway, I've got more

763
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 1: to say, but let's let's continue the conversation. Well, I'll

764
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: tell you my theory, okay, because I think everybody does

765
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: have a theory here. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I

766
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: was just gonna say about you're you're you're referring to

767
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: something that we do know to be a thing, you

768
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: know confirmed. I mean, the Google, you know, uses keywords

769
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: inside of your emails and your calendar and stuff, and

770
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: then serves you those little ads in the margins. Right, yeah,

771
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: it does that. And Google is a whole thing, right yeah, yeah,

772
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: alphabet is a thing. It's building predictive analytics. And this,

773
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: this is where I think we go. We approached this

774
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: from two fronts anonymous and everybody has experienced a weird

775
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: algorithmic ad before. The first front, will we'll play skeptic.

776
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: We'll put on a skeptics hat, right, and we'll use

777
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: some of those arguments that have been made by more

778
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: skeptical folks writing those think pieces I mentioned. And then secondly,

779
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: will uh, we'll we'll talk about something plausible and a

780
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: little more scary. So first, something's gonna be familiar to

781
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: the skeptics in the crowd, the idea of better mind

782
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: hoff phenomenon. You've heard a word for the first time,

783
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: you've heard a word like um, saturnine or something, and

784
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: then you learn about that word and you have that

785
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: the more you know vibe going on, and you think,

786
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: oh that's cool. Now I know a fancy way to

787
00:45:53,280 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: say gloomy basically crestfallen, right right, And and then later

788
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: that week, that day or whatever the interval of time is.

789
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: You feel like everybody must have learned this word at

790
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: the same time as you, because you'll be damned if

791
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: you haven't heard saturdaynine more times this week, then you

792
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: have heard in the entirety of your life. You know

793
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: what I mean. But how much of that is an

794
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: external factor? And how much of that is the magnificent

795
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: and hugely imperfect human brain saying I still think we're

796
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: out in the wild, hunting, gathering, foraging, trying not to

797
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: be eaten. So I am going to recognize patterns, right,

798
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: and if anything comes up, I'm gonna I'm gonna obsessively,

799
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: subconsciously build a pattern out of that. That's what happens

800
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: with things like let's say you're thinking you're gonna buy

801
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: a different car one day. Not to lean too much

802
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: into the auto stuff, but you're thinking, I'm gonna, you know,

803
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: I think I might buy just name a car. What's

804
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: a random car, Pougo Honda. I'm gonna buy a Prujo

805
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: Honda Odyssey made by Honda and Prugo. It is both

806
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: infinitely annoying on the road and it's very small hybrid.

807
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: So batter mine Hoff what you were experiencing then is

808
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: you're like, I want this hilarious prujo Honda Odyssey Hybrid

809
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: and uh, and then you start seeing them everywhere on

810
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: the road and you start thinking, Wow, these vehicles are

811
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: really popular, despite the fact that they're a terrible idea,

812
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: that really really popular. That may make you more likely

813
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: to buy one. But what's happening instead, again, this phenomenon argues,

814
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: is that your brain is just prioritizing those and bringing

815
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: them to your attention. So you might be passing hundreds

816
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: of Honda Civics, which for a long time was the

817
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 1: most common car in the US, but you're not noticing

818
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: those because that's not your vibe. You want your weird

819
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: microcar van or whatever. And this this could be something

820
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: to play here. That's again that's a skeptical argument. It

821
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: could be that you just noticed the ad because you

822
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: were already thinking of this thing. However, I don't think

823
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: that gets us to an explanation. I think there's some

824
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: problems with it. Yeah, I reject that, and I just

825
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: I know what that is. I know what that feels like,

826
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: and I think we all do, and I think we've

827
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: all kind of learned to recognize that for the most

828
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: part for what it is. But the thing with the

829
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: and again, just to be clear, we're talking about verbal

830
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: things that are said verbally, right, just to make sure

831
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: we're well in this case, No, our our caller is

832
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: saying she thought about something that she wanted and then

833
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: saw okay. But then I would argue, I'm not trying

834
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: to you know, in part um intention on our on

835
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: our caller, but I mean, I would argue that if

836
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: you thought about something, chances are you searched for a

837
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: little bit exactly. We're getting to my theory, something adjacent

838
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: to adjacent, adjacent. It doesn't even have to be the

839
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: exact thing, it's just a flavor of it. And then

840
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: the algorithm has gotten so good then it extrapolates it

841
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: to the thing you actually want. That's that's the other

842
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give you this one, which is just

843
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: my theory, and I think it's a little different from yours.

844
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to take a window of your sales.

845
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: So there's I think we get served so many ads

846
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: so often, especially if we're on a social media feed.

847
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: If you think about something like Instagram, where you're just

848
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: scrolling through looking at posts, post and post and post

849
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: and posts even if it's real as it doesn't matter

850
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: anything like that. You are getting served ads generally one

851
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: out of every three things that you look at. I

852
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: think that's about correct. Maybe a little more or maybe

853
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: a little less. I think we are exposed to so

854
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: many of those as we're just scrolling and scrolling and

855
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: scrolling that we don't even they don't register in our

856
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: even short term memory, the just fling past us. But

857
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: maybe enough of our subconscious or you know, that part

858
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: of us that just again that the part that needs

859
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: us to stay alive and has done that since we've

860
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: been evolving. Um, a little piece of that grabs this,

861
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, maybe let's say ten percent of that AD

862
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: that flew past our eyes. And if that's occurring, I

863
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm losing my tramp thought COVID brain, but

864
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 1: I I do think that you could be served an AD.

865
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: You're being served ads for certain things because of what

866
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: the algorithms think you want. And maybe our caller is

867
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: somebody who has in the past purchased these what was

868
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: what was it called may Day designs something may Days,

869
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: may Day designs, something like that has been in her past.

870
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: She's purchased, she's made a purchase before, they've been advertising

871
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: to her because it's around the time that she should

872
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: be buying some more and she recently saw one and

873
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: just doesn't even register that she saw an act. Remind

874
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,959
Speaker 1: me the thing in her and her message that made

875
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: it so incredibly remarkable. Well, what's the detail that I'm

876
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: kind of her her phone? She So she just had

877
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: a thought in the moment her phone was physically away

878
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: from her in another part of her domicile. Uh, and

879
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: she had not spoken to someone else around their phone

880
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: about this. So typically the the theory, the conspiracy theory,

881
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 1: is that the phones are list the phones are listening, right,

882
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: and then making ads based on conversation. I've tried some

883
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: of that. It's gotta be There's gotta be more to

884
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: it than that, though, because I was trying to get

885
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: ads for really really expensive things. So I would literally,

886
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, sit with my phone and just whisper, like

887
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: I want to buy a yacht or trips to Monico

888
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: and just you know, the most obnoxiously wealthy stuff I

889
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: can imagine, like get young blood stuff like that. Shout

890
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: out to our blood episode Modern Vampires. But there there

891
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: is some sand to this because no sales to take

892
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: the wind out of here except maybe this theory from

893
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: Facebook's part. What most people don't know, and what I

894
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: would say most people can't access would be the level

895
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: of the level of information that exists about your habits,

896
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, the depth of the persona that has been

897
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: built around you. Matt, you said something really interesting with

898
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: the idea of a time interval. Is it time for

899
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: anonymous to buy from this company again, right? Or is

900
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: it time for us to enter in a new a

901
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: new pitch, right, Like, we've got travel records, either through

902
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: third party purchases like airline tickets, right, maybe records of

903
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: gas purchases that you've made in a in a road

904
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: trip or something like that. And then maybe you have

905
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: established a pattern that you drive up to Calamus or

906
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: whatever every every year around Christmas time. You might get

907
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: ads for that because you are becoming there, your patterns

908
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 1: are becoming predictable. And this is not this is not illegal.

909
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: Is not saying that Facebook is evil because of that

910
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: they're buying this from third party brokers lie. The t

911
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: OS terms of service people sign explicitly allow for that

912
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: secondary stream of income to four Well, no, you could

913
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: argue it's it's exactly what the system is meant, how

914
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: the system is meant to evolve. I mean, it's it's

915
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: not only is it not illegal, it's efficient. They're fine

916
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 1: tuning the system to serve you more um relevant ads.

917
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: I think the advertising the advertisers and the advertising industry

918
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: and the people that are you know, responsible for the

919
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: code that is creating these algorithms that are like, you know,

920
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: more accurately serving up ads. They all know that stupid

921
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: conundrum where you buy the thing and then all of

922
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: a sudden get in and date with ads for the thing.

923
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 1: They're aware of that, and they're trying to do something

924
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: about it, and this is what they're doing. And I

925
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: would argue that over time, it's just gonna get more

926
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: and more subconscious, you know what I mean, where they're

927
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: gonna be able to assemble pieces of a psychological profile

928
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: and then tell you what you want before you even

929
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: know you want it, maybe the moment you want it,

930
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: based on what you were just looking at five seconds before.

931
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: Then then is the last piece of the puzzle, and click,

932
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: there you go. You get the thing. And you could

933
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: argue that that's great that we want that sure you

934
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: could argue that it's dystopian and terrifying, or it's somewhere

935
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: in the middle. Well, it's definitely playing fast and loose

936
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: with the concept of consent. You could say that these

937
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: companies are getting consent from their end users, or you know,

938
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: their end users are the product here, but they're not

939
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: getting informed consents because they are not aware of the

940
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: capabilities that this technology bestows. I want to end on like,

941
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: I love exploring this, You're gonna explore more. But I'd

942
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: like to take the theory that Matt and I were

943
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: cooking up and take it one step further. And this

944
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: is the part that might freak you out a little bit, Anonymous,

945
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: along with any of our other fellow listeners who ex

946
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: hearing something like this, What if that advertisement was not

947
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: somehow reading your mind or predicting a time interval. What

948
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: if the thought that you had was created in some

949
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: way by a similar algorithm. And this before this sounds

950
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: to sci fi woo woo. I'm not saying that there's

951
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of like Minority Report esque sensory depth deprivation

952
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: tanks where people are like, make this person think of

953
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: stationary and pens. What I'm what I'm saying is, um,

954
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: perhaps the best way to explain it is through example.

955
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna have an upcoming episode about how memories can

956
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: be altered, and in hand in hand with this or

957
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: tentacle and tentacle with this is the idea that thoughts

958
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: can be planted in your mind without your consent and

959
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: without your knowledge, and with a great, i would say,

960
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: terrifying level of sophistication. The best example of this before

961
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: we get to that episode is to check out clips

962
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: from a show called Minds Control, done by the mentalist

963
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: Darren Brown in Mind So Much. Yeah, he's great. Um,

964
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: I think I'd like that on the show one day.

965
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: If you guys are interested, I just shake it that episode.

966
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: He'll probably get into our heads and listeners as well.

967
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: But here's here's what he does. This is a bit

968
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: of a spoiler alert, but I think people will still

969
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: enjoy watching the process because it could apply to the

970
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: theory we're cooking up about Facebook. In this clip from

971
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: this show, there's a thing called animal Heaven and Darren

972
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: Brown has invited too willing volunteers from an ad agency

973
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: ad agency hotshots picture like modern Madmen kind of. He's

974
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: invited these folks to help him create a logo and

975
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: to catch phrase for a pet crematorium, which you know,

976
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: it sounds like something you would need some professional help with,

977
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: because pet crematoriums are not something a lot of people

978
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: like to think about unless they have to. So he

979
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: invites them in and he says, Okay, I'm giving you

980
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: a limited amount of time just to you know, meet

981
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: me in this office. You have a limited amount of

982
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: time to give me a logo, me a tagline, that

983
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So he lets them have their limited

984
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: amount of time, and then he says, okay, what'd you

985
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: come up with the show him when he came They

986
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: came up with that. They just made up themselves in

987
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 1: the collaboration. And then there's a moment where he verifies

988
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: that like days before they came on the scene, he

989
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: had his own idea and it's the exact same idea.

990
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: So how did he transmit that to their mind? How

991
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: did they confuse someone else's thoughts or cognitive commands with

992
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: their own creative process. The answer is fascinating and terrifying

993
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: because it's it's not as difficult as you think. And

994
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: and that when he explains a little bit about what's

995
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: going on. I don't know. Should we spoil it? Should

996
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: we tell them what it is? Yeah? I mean I

997
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: think you should just just some people may not be

998
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: able to access that at this moment, but it really

999
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: is creepy if you can control what people see, and

1000
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of what goes back to

1001
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: the thing I was talking about, if if you can

1002
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: put something in front of someone's eyes, you can get

1003
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: them to think something, even if it's just happens in

1004
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: a flash and you don't even really notice it, but

1005
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: it goes past your eyes or it goes past your ears,

1006
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 1: it's in your head, I promise, Yeah, exactly. So let's

1007
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: let's break down what happens here. So we mentioned that

1008
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: these ad executives they don't know what they're going to

1009
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: be working on until Darren announces it to them. But

1010
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: they are on a ride in someone else's car from

1011
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: a meeting point to the office, and on that ride

1012
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: is really where the magic starts to occur. If you

1013
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: play it back, which they do at the end of

1014
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: the program, if you play it back, you'll see that

1015
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: everything these guys are passing in their car ride is

1016
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: subtly reinforcing the same imagery, the same symbolism, the same

1017
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: phrases or logos. So they have been unknowingly sort of

1018
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: irradiated with this information. And I don't think irradiated is

1019
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: an unfair word here. They have been radiated with this

1020
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: information such that it is in the front of their

1021
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: mind even if they don't know what's happening. This is

1022
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 1: a powerful thing. This is also part of how you

1023
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: can change people's memories without their them recognizing what's happening,

1024
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: and of course without their consent, and that maybe what's

1025
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: happening here. It feels like a lot of work because frankly,

1026
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: Darren Brown was doing this with a huge budget for

1027
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: a show. He had a team of very smart people

1028
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: helping him. It was analog. Everything was carefully controlled. Uh,

1029
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: but it is possible. It is possible to plant thoughts

1030
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: in people's minds because the truth of the matter is,

1031
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: on any given day, most folks do not clock the

1032
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: majority of what they observe, you know, subconsciously. When if

1033
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: we learned anything from Edward Burnet is that the lynch

1034
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: pin of advertising or modern advertising is psychology and psychological manipulation. Yeah,

1035
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: so why why should it be not more advanced at

1036
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,919
Speaker 1: this stage in the game. Exactly what do you think, Matt,

1037
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: what's on your mind? Also shout out to Meado. Oh yeah,

1038
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: shout out to Meado. Meadows really giving me a hard

1039
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: time right now. She wants to go out soprano, Meado soprano. Yep.

1040
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: Uh no. It takes me back to something you mentioned

1041
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: that you Darren browned in my head been accidentally perhaps

1042
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: as he's I'm sorry, Uh stand up special. He just

1043
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: makes a really great point about social media and phones

1044
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: in general and just our activities. Uh it's a very

1045
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: heartfelt special by the way he does it at the

1046
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: Comedy Seller, which is the first place you ever did

1047
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:24,919
Speaker 1: stand up yea, um, but man, I would recommend people

1048
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: watch that. Think about that. It makes me think about

1049
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: this whole conversation, makes me remember why I got rid

1050
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: of social media, and it also is making me lament

1051
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 1: the fact that I still have Instagram on my phone

1052
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: for work purposes, and I find myself scrolling on that

1053
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: stinking thing all the time and I just want to

1054
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: burn it. See I hear you. I love Instagram. I've

1055
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: curated it in a way that really serves my needs

1056
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: and I really like with what I get off what

1057
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: I get from it. I feel like I'm getting exactly

1058
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: what I want out of it for the most part,

1059
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: and don't find it to be a suck on my life,

1060
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: maybe in the way that it is for some Certainly

1061
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 1: I could spend less time on it, but I really

1062
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: really enjoy it, and I feel like I get value

1063
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: out of it in terms of learning about new artists,

1064
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: and I really like memes and re sharing stuff and

1065
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: all of that, and I have good interactions with listeners

1066
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: and I'm a fan. But I understand that for some

1067
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: it can be a real toxic uh force um. But

1068
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: for me, I'm okay with it. And I also feel

1069
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: like I've made no bones about the fact that, like,

1070
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: I know this stuff is going on, I just don't

1071
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: care that much. Like I use the Facebook log in

1072
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: to link to like other things like ticket website so

1073
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: I can share that I've got tickets. I know that

1074
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: gives them a direct siphon into my data. I don't

1075
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: really care, Like, what, how is it affecting me in

1076
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: a negative way that they know my spending habits. Like

1077
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: I understand that it's sort of the principle of the

1078
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: thing for some people where it's like, well, I don't

1079
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: want to, you know, give the man an advantage or whatever.

1080
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: But to me, it's like I just don't care, and like, if,

1081
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:00,040
Speaker 1: if anything, it makes the Internet less annoying for me

1082
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: than so be it. I know you did, and I

1083
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: know who this guy is, and and then he's a

1084
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: he's a creepy dude. Maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm being

1085
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 1: myopic about it. Not the big picture. Well it's also

1086
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: it's it's evolving. It a breakdeck pace. And just because

1087
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: this is often an audio show for now, the picture

1088
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: that you shared, Matt is Mark Suckerberg having like a

1089
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: religious moment or a quiet orgasm. Uh he was, he

1090
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: was announcing the metaverse just gobbled down a tablespoon of

1091
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: sweet baby rays and screencrap. Screencaps are weird. Maybe maybe

1092
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: read too much, but but yes, you can be guided.

1093
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that you are not intelligent. It

1094
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you are u somehow less than It

1095
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 1: just means that a lot of people are making a

1096
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: lot of money by getting closer and closer to being

1097
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: able to say, hey, h hey, Illumination Global Nlimited, give

1098
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: us twenty million dollars and we guarantee you that we

1099
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: can get x amount of people to buy your new

1100
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: uh shoe feet or whatever. And shoe feet is a

1101
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: brilliant design where it's like they look like your barefoot

1102
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: but you actually have shoes on, but really nice bare feet,

1103
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: not like yours. The Royal ben has impeccably Uh. There

1104
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: you have them, you have them treated. I've seen them.

1105
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: There they have they have they have a glow to them. Um,

1106
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: shoe feed, you know, but shoe feed is they're fine

1107
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: because it's like I've always really had a problem with

1108
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: those toe shoes, but shoe feeds something else and I'm

1109
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: okay with I'm okay with shoe feed. But you know,

1110
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: we we benefit from advertising, and we've benefited from things

1111
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: like what's called lookalike audiences. Like that is a concept

1112
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: where you generally, you like, you take data and create

1113
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: like a simulation of audience that you want to serve,

1114
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: and in order to do that, you have to have data.

1115
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I can't be too mad at it,

1116
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: but I also I have bow to the uh, the

1117
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: the sneakiness of it all, and in a lot of

1118
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: ways I kind of respect the hustle, but also, like

1119
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, you say that there there's ben you mentioned

1120
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: that you think that this is not informed consent, but

1121
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's the choice we make not

1122
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: to read those updated terms of service. I have a

1123
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: feeling although they update them, they're updating in with this

1124
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, telling you the new ways and all

1125
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: the new ways that they're taking your stuff and doing

1126
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: stuff with it. But it's a it's a personal choice

1127
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: not to read those every time a new one comes up.

1128
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. And these things consume like relatively

1129
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: academic observations so long as they remain conversations about opt

1130
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 1: in systems, systems that are not mandates. And my question

1131
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: is how far away are we from that this conversation

1132
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: is taking us in a lot of different directions. It

1133
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: is for thought, you can see, Matt Noel and yours

1134
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: truly are are on a on a on very levels

1135
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: of a spectrum in terms of our interaction with this,

1136
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: with this brave new Promethean fire of ubiquitous always on

1137
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: communication that is steered without your knowledge. But we want

1138
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. Take a page from our fellow

1139
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy realist here. Thanks to everyone who reached out to us. Uh,

1140
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear what your take is on

1141
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: traveling to Tehran. It's gonna pick that one out, what

1142
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:41,479
Speaker 1: your take is on mysterious past of your relatives and uh,

1143
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: and then of course what your take is on the

1144
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: idea that your thoughts might be guided by forces you

1145
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: don't consciously recognize. I think to me that is that

1146
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: is a scary point, because we often like to think

1147
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: of our minds as sort of the last sanctum, you

1148
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like the last thing people can't

1149
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: get into is gonna be your air walled thoughts, and

1150
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: you can think whatever you want and no one knows

1151
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: except for you. Uh. But that may not be as

1152
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: much the case as as you think it is. So

1153
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,919
Speaker 1: we're asking for consent. We would love if you would

1154
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts instead of us try to

1155
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: create them in your head. We try to be easy

1156
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: to find online. That's right. You can find us on

1157
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,479
Speaker 1: the internet. We are on Instagram at conspiracy Stuff show

1158
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: everywhere else we are just conspiracy stuff. That's Facebook, that's Twitter,

1159
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: and that is of course YouTube, where you can find

1160
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: daily video content um for your personal enjoyment and perusal.

1161
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: And I think we're gonna be seeing some cool new

1162
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: stuff in the very near future popping up UH in

1163
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: one or all of these places. UH. You can also,

1164
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: if you prefer to stay off of the Internet and

1165
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: use something a little more UH analog, you can give

1166
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: us telephone call one eight three three st d w Y.

1167
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: That's right when you call in, leave yourself a cool nickname,

1168
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: amuse yourself for us. We like it in both ways.

1169
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: You've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like. We do

1170
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: ask that you please tell us we have permission to

1171
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: use your name and voice. If not, tell us you

1172
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,600
Speaker 1: don't have permission to do that because you want to

1173
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 1: remain anonymous or you don't want your voice to be heard.

1174
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 1: Just give us those details. We would really appreciate it.

1175
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: If you've got more to say than you can fit

1176
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: into that three minutes, instead, why not send us a

1177
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio

1178
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is

1179
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from

1180
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1181
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: or where ever you listen to your favorite shows.