Speaker 1: According to the fitness app on my phone, I have
Speaker 1: logged five thousand, forty one steps so far today. Becca,
Speaker 1: what's your step count? I'm at three thousand, seven hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty nine. Not bad for midday, but not quite
Speaker 1: as good as me. Um, you get all your steps
Speaker 1: from walking to the lactation room. Okay, I would dispute that,
Speaker 1: But the real point here is that this is exactly
Speaker 1: the kind of conversation that some employers are dying for
Speaker 1: their employees to have. Today we're talking about all the
Speaker 1: ways that companies try to trick their employees into getting healthier,
Speaker 1: and whether they should be doing that at all. This
Speaker 1: is game plan. Hi, I'm francesco Leavie and I'm Rebeca Greenfield,
Speaker 1: and today we are talking about workplace wellness and what
Speaker 1: that even means. A few weeks ago, you might remember
Speaker 1: we had an episode where we talked about how much
Speaker 1: sitting people are doing in the modern office and what
Speaker 1: people are doing to get around that, like encouraging the
Speaker 1: use of standing desks. More. This week, we're going to
Speaker 1: keep talking about your health at the office, but we're
Speaker 1: talking about bigger things companies are doing to try and
Speaker 1: make you healthier and more fit. Let's start with why
Speaker 1: companies care so much about making you healthier. UM health insurance.
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty much it. A sick employees cost companies
Speaker 1: a ton of money. They are expensive to ensure. If
Speaker 1: you're a really big employer and you pay for your
Speaker 1: own health insurance, then you're paying out a pocket when
Speaker 1: somebody gets sick. And people who get sick don't shoft
Speaker 1: to work and they're not productive. So companies are pouring
Speaker 1: a lot of money into these so called wellness programs.
Speaker 1: I don't love that phrase, but that's what it is.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it really means anything. It sounds very
Speaker 1: corporate jargon. But one statistic that's not super current, but
Speaker 1: I think from fifteen found that companies are putting almost
Speaker 1: seven per impull eat into these wellness programs and that
Speaker 1: was a record high because it's so expensive when people
Speaker 1: get sick. That's a lot of money. And as you say,
Speaker 1: wellness isn't a word that sounds like it really means much.
Speaker 1: So what do those numbers translate into, Like what are
Speaker 1: companies actually spending money on? Wellness is a giant umbrella
Speaker 1: term that can mean so many different things. And it
Speaker 1: can be a smoking sensation programs that you get money
Speaker 1: back if you don't smoke on your health insurance or
Speaker 1: for example, I participated in these workout programs happening in
Speaker 1: the office. So some offices will have like boot camp
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day at work. That sounds
Speaker 1: super fun. What was that like? It was mortifying. It
Speaker 1: was mortifying. I was paired up with um, like a
Speaker 1: high up person at a company, and he was doing
Speaker 1: like leg lifts with me, and we're all sweating and
Speaker 1: they're not even my coworkers. And I really didn't like it,
Speaker 1: but the employees did like it because it's hard to
Speaker 1: work out and you want to work out in the
Speaker 1: middle of the day, and it's it's a free service
Speaker 1: that your company is offering. And then there's you were
Speaker 1: talking about step challenges, which companies are trying to gamify
Speaker 1: and get people to participate in. Yeah. I worked at
Speaker 1: a company once where there was this step challenge. I
Speaker 1: think different teams were pitted against each other. Everybody was
Speaker 1: given a pedometer. My team had I think more competitive
Speaker 1: spirit than we actually had motivation to exercise. So at
Speaker 1: a certain point I do remember us all like sitting
Speaker 1: at our desks shaking our pedometers when we realized that
Speaker 1: that would increase the stepp count. Um, I hope this
Speaker 1: doesn't get that team's trophy taken away. I've changed some
Speaker 1: names and identifying details in that story, so you'll never
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. That is, Yeah, not at all,
Speaker 1: but that's the opposite of what the company wants to do.
Speaker 1: That gamification backfired. So that gets to an important point though,
Speaker 1: like do these programs work or employer workers around the
Speaker 1: country sitting at their desks and shaking their pardometers. So
Speaker 1: I think there are two problems. First, there's a problem
Speaker 1: of companies don't know how to get the return on investment.
Speaker 1: They know that health their employees cost less money, but
Speaker 1: the research is pretty shaky about which programs work and
Speaker 1: how much the return on investment is. So I think
Speaker 1: the smoking sensiation programs work really well. The programs where
Speaker 1: they help people manage their disease, So if you have
Speaker 1: diabetes and you help your employees manage that, those work
Speaker 1: really well. But health can mean so many different things,
Speaker 1: and it sounds like companies are trying to tackle it
Speaker 1: from all different angles. Yeah, and as we talked about
Speaker 1: in our standing desk episode something like being sedentary is
Speaker 1: a huge problem for companies, but they can't figure out
Speaker 1: how to get people to do it, which is the
Speaker 1: other problem, and that people don't participate. They don't want
Speaker 1: to do these programs, as you and your old coworkers showed,
Speaker 1: you just wanted to win whatever the prize was, so
Speaker 1: you worked around it. You would rather not walk. So
Speaker 1: what do companies do, Like, how do you get people involved?
Speaker 1: How do you get them to participate? These sticks? They
Speaker 1: threatened people, that's what works. There was the study that
Speaker 1: I read about that it had different people in a
Speaker 1: step challenge. You either got money when you your goal,
Speaker 1: or money was taken away from you when you didn't
Speaker 1: get your goal. The people who had money taken away
Speaker 1: from them outperformed everyone else by far. Because people, when
Speaker 1: they feel threatened, they want to perform. So it works,
Speaker 1: But it sounds like kind of a nasty environment to work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, exactly do you want to treat your
Speaker 1: employees like this just to keep your health insurance costs down?
Speaker 1: I mean the answer to that is yes, that some
Speaker 1: companies do that. Okay, So what if you didn't have
Speaker 1: to do any of that? What if you didn't have
Speaker 1: to get employeed by, and you didn't have to cajole
Speaker 1: people into doing step challenges, and you didn't have to
Speaker 1: threaten them, you could just sort of seduce them into
Speaker 1: being healthier without them even realized that they were being manipulated.
Speaker 1: Our guest, Joanna Frank, runs the Center for Active Design,
Speaker 1: which has a mission to integrate fitness and health into
Speaker 1: all kinds of public spaces, including offices and full disclosure.
Speaker 1: Is partially funded by Bloomberg Philanthropies. Welcome Joanna, Thank you.
Speaker 1: So why don't you just start by explaining what active
Speaker 1: design is. So there's actually many things about the design
Speaker 1: of your office space that impacts your health. UM, whether
Speaker 1: it's the location of the stair, the location of the
Speaker 1: office itself, UM. Many of these different decisions when you're
Speaker 1: choosing where an office is located and so on, UM
Speaker 1: actually impact the amount of physical activity that you're receiving
Speaker 1: every day, as well as mental health, social attractions on.
Speaker 1: Can you give us some specific examples of how you've
Speaker 1: changed an office layout to get some of those health outcomes.
Speaker 1: So it starts with sighting, So where you locate an
Speaker 1: office has a huge impact on the amount of physical
Speaker 1: activity UM and social interactions someone that receives UM. So
Speaker 1: you can imagine if you're in the middle of the
Speaker 1: city like this office, then you're going to take the subway,
Speaker 1: You're going to walk down the street to get to
Speaker 1: the office. If you're located somewhere out in the suburbs,
Speaker 1: for instance, that you can only drive to the office,
Speaker 1: then you have no choice about driving, and so you
Speaker 1: don't get that kind of that little bit of activity
Speaker 1: that we all rely on every day. So it starts
Speaker 1: with the sighting. Another example would be UM when you
Speaker 1: first walk into a building. If you see the stair
Speaker 1: when you first walk in, even if it's through a
Speaker 1: glass door, you're much more likely to take the stairs
Speaker 1: then if it's behind a steel door and you have
Speaker 1: no idea where it is, obviously UM. But but again
Speaker 1: it's it's these incremental amounts of physical activity and interaction
Speaker 1: to make a really profound impact on people's health. So
Speaker 1: if you had a company come to you and say,
Speaker 1: we're looking to make our office healthier so our workers
Speaker 1: are healthier, move us from the suburbs to the city.
Speaker 1: So we actually run a certification program fitwell, which allows
Speaker 1: companies to actually assess how health promoting a building is
Speaker 1: prior to either moving into that building or if you're
Speaker 1: making a decision about which building to lease, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So people are absolutely using this information to make a
Speaker 1: difference about, you know, where the workers are actually going
Speaker 1: to be in the first place. And then they're using
Speaker 1: the same information when they're doing a fit out or
Speaker 1: if they're renovate eating the space. UM, they're using this
Speaker 1: information to actually inform the design what kind of things
Speaker 1: what a company have to do to meet the fit
Speaker 1: well certification. So it starts off with the sighting, So
Speaker 1: what neighborhood you choose to locate in UM and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of kind of metrics around more health promoting
Speaker 1: community and neighborhood. And then it really just kind of
Speaker 1: goes as if you're walking through the space. So it
Speaker 1: starts off with the entrance of the building, how does
Speaker 1: that support interaction both with the community at large, but
Speaker 1: also how does it start to indicate that this is
Speaker 1: an environment that promotes health? And then the stairs and
Speaker 1: then it moves on as if you're walking through the building,
Speaker 1: so shared spaces, workspaces, food access, you know what food
Speaker 1: is being provided, vending machines, even emergency procedures. So it
Speaker 1: really is kind of all aspects of the workplace that's affected.
Speaker 1: What kind of entrance as the healthiest looking and trans
Speaker 1: um Also, entrances have a couple of different roles there.
Speaker 1: They're obviously that transition moment um, and so it's both
Speaker 1: connecting you back with the resources that are in the community.
Speaker 1: So say you're in a neighborhood that has a park
Speaker 1: two blocks away, then you can use the messaging and
Speaker 1: signage within the entrance to actually connect your employees with
Speaker 1: those resources. Or if there's a supermarket, or if the
Speaker 1: transit and so on, so you can really use the
Speaker 1: entrance to communicate what is available in the greater community.
Speaker 1: And then of course it is the location where a
Speaker 1: stair would be, so you use it for the stair
Speaker 1: as well. Um, And there's also a great emphasis on
Speaker 1: universal accessibility, so really looking at how to provide equity
Speaker 1: for vulnerable populations and how design and operations of buildings
Speaker 1: can do that. You were talking about the sighting of
Speaker 1: an office. Where the office is located. Some officers may
Speaker 1: be forced to be in a suburban area. Are there
Speaker 1: things they can do around siting if they're if they're
Speaker 1: not in an urban area, that are more active than others. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: the great thing about fit well is that it really
Speaker 1: is looking at existing buildings and the conditions that they
Speaker 1: are actually experiencing. UM. And so if you are in
Speaker 1: a suburban or rural neighborhood or location, then you have
Speaker 1: a different set of opportunities. So you probably have more space,
Speaker 1: and you probably have outdoor space, which of course you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have if you're in an urban location. So then
Speaker 1: it's a case of doing UM, having walking trails, having
Speaker 1: garden spaces, having maybe a farmer's market if it's a campus.
Speaker 1: So there are many different things you can do. If
Speaker 1: you're in a suburban location, you'll also probably have more
Speaker 1: square foot within your space, and so you can have
Speaker 1: exercise rooms and quiet rooms, you know, where space is
Speaker 1: probably tighter in an urban location. So there is absolutely
Speaker 1: a whole set of things you can do regardless of
Speaker 1: the actual location of your office. And that's kind of
Speaker 1: the point. The point is, whatever you are, whatever your
Speaker 1: office space looks like, there are many things that you
Speaker 1: can do to to promote health. What would you say
Speaker 1: as the simplest thing at office? Can do a lot
Speaker 1: of these things I'm hearing sound like kind of big overhauls. Sure,
Speaker 1: I mean there's many things that have no cost. So
Speaker 1: there are a whole list of operational strategies and so
Speaker 1: that's as kind of practical as a pest management says
Speaker 1: integrated pest management plan. But it's also things like signage.
Speaker 1: Signage has a really big impact on people's behavior. And
Speaker 1: obviously that's not difficult to do or expensive. So even
Speaker 1: if you can't move the stair just having signage that
Speaker 1: says the stair is over there in the corner will
Speaker 1: actually affect the number of people using the stairs or
Speaker 1: saying you know, we are in office. That promotes health
Speaker 1: for these reasons, that actually changes behavior. Our office is
Speaker 1: obsessed with signage. There are lots of a lot of arrows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask something like you mentioned people seeing
Speaker 1: this staircase when they first walk in. What are the
Speaker 1: health benefits of that? What have them? Is shown to
Speaker 1: be sure, so it increases the number of flights of
Speaker 1: stairs that you take a day, um and some of
Speaker 1: the research shows that just as six flights of stairs
Speaker 1: a day is enough to offset the average annual weight
Speaker 1: gain of an American UM it also decreases the risk
Speaker 1: of stroke. Um So, we know that the three greatest
Speaker 1: risk factors for chronic disease so diabetes, heart disease, etcetera,
Speaker 1: are smoking, diet, and lack of physical activity. So if
Speaker 1: you can use your building, your workplace to actually mitigate
Speaker 1: the risk of those three aspects, you are obviously then
Speaker 1: reducing the risk of chronic disease, which is the largest
Speaker 1: kind of killer in this country. What what you may
Speaker 1: know not know though, however, is that social isolation is
Speaker 1: actually fast becoming an equivalent kind of risk factor, as
Speaker 1: is physical inactivity and smoking. So the three are actually
Speaker 1: kind of neck and neck for for kin of having
Speaker 1: a risk factor. So with social isolation something that can
Speaker 1: be tackled in the workplace as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So interestingly,
Speaker 1: some of the evidence around social isolation again comes to
Speaker 1: that kind of sighting. So if you're if you're able
Speaker 1: to cite your office somewhere that is within a neighborhood
Speaker 1: that's walkable, just that kind of casual interaction. There's evidence
Speaker 1: base around that. Mitigating social isolation also kind of decreasing
Speaker 1: car use, because car uses inherently kind of isolating. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a lot of things you can do
Speaker 1: having shared spaces that encourage social interaction in a in
Speaker 1: a workplace. Um. So it's it's it's really interesting evidence
Speaker 1: and it's something that's really actually continuing to evolve over time.
Speaker 1: What about lighting? Have you done or reviewed much research
Speaker 1: on how the type of light effects working conditions? Yes,
Speaker 1: so there are some strategies and fit well around light
Speaker 1: because there is a significant body of evidence. I think
Speaker 1: the strongest evidences around having access to natural light, so
Speaker 1: to be being able to see outside basically, um and
Speaker 1: knowing you know what time of dead is that that
Speaker 1: has the greatest evidence space around it. Do you think
Speaker 1: most buildings office buildings in America are abiding by these
Speaker 1: strategies or do we have a long way to go?
Speaker 1: So if it is brand new, I mean we are
Speaker 1: in week five, so it's I mean active design has
Speaker 1: obviously been around for for a long time and actually
Speaker 1: started under the Bloomberg administration, um when the mug was
Speaker 1: the mayor of New York City. So it's been around
Speaker 1: for a while. But active design just looked at physical
Speaker 1: activity and now we've obviously expanded. Um So what I
Speaker 1: would say about fit weell is that there's a great
Speaker 1: deal of interest both from the people who own buildings,
Speaker 1: so real estate developers and so on. UM. There's also
Speaker 1: a great deal of interest from employers about how they
Speaker 1: can use this evidence space to really inform future decisions
Speaker 1: around how they invest in employee health. I understand why
Speaker 1: employer's word care. Obviously it keeps their employees healthier and
Speaker 1: that's cheaper for them, and I guess that's a good
Speaker 1: social good. Why the real estate developers care, it's really
Speaker 1: building on the success of the sustainability movement. So real
Speaker 1: estate developers already saw a market advantage to being seen
Speaker 1: to be an early adopter of sustainability practices UM. And
Speaker 1: so there's an opportunity now to be seen to be
Speaker 1: promoting health UM. And the evidence space is there, so
Speaker 1: it's not speculative. This isn't an opinion about whether you
Speaker 1: can do so UM and so there's an opportunity to
Speaker 1: really differentiate their portfolios UM and then obviously encourage new
Speaker 1: tenants and tenants who are in their buildings that they
Speaker 1: will understand that they are actually in an environment that
Speaker 1: is actually affecting productivity. So one of the things that
Speaker 1: we see and that the it and space supports is
Speaker 1: that if you have a healthier employee, those employees are
Speaker 1: more productive, So there's there's definitely a correlation between the two.
Speaker 1: So your center develops best practices. And we're fortunate enough
Speaker 1: to work in an office that I think utilizes some
Speaker 1: of those but a lot of people will find familiar
Speaker 1: the descriptions of the office where like the microwave is
Speaker 1: never cleaned out, and those stairwells impossible to find, and
Speaker 1: there's no natural light for those of us that work
Speaker 1: in those types of offices, and I think everybody probably
Speaker 1: has at one point or another. Is there anything individuals
Speaker 1: can do to change their own space to make it
Speaker 1: more conducive to fitness or movement or just being healthy. Sure,
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, And I think what is really interesting
Speaker 1: about this movement is it is actually being driven by
Speaker 1: employee demand. So the reason that we are seeing so
Speaker 1: much interest from employers is because they know that their
Speaker 1: employees are looking at the environment that they work in
Speaker 1: as one of the deciding factors about who they going
Speaker 1: to work with in the first place, and then whether
Speaker 1: they stay at that um in that job. So there
Speaker 1: is definitely an understanding from business that they can actually
Speaker 1: attract talent talent sorry, and also retain their talent and
Speaker 1: their employees if they provide an environment that is health
Speaker 1: promoting and if they are seen to be providing an
Speaker 1: environment that is health promoting. And what I would say
Speaker 1: is that, UM, whether system like fit Well or any
Speaker 1: of the stuff that we do, it's it's about incremental change.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to suddenly look like this amazing
Speaker 1: office building we're in right now. UM, you just need
Speaker 1: to understand like where you are now and what it
Speaker 1: is you should be prioritizing, and then just start to
Speaker 1: do it. You know, every little thing that you do
Speaker 1: is actually going to have an impact on health. So
Speaker 1: even if it's only about putting signage up in the
Speaker 1: building and you do nothing else, that's at least the start,
Speaker 1: and it starts to actually move the needle. So I
Speaker 1: think that that's the kind of the messages that everybody
Speaker 1: can do something UM. And the idea is that by
Speaker 1: democratizing this information and really putting it out there for
Speaker 1: everyone to see, what the evidence space is, what the
Speaker 1: strategies are, UM, you're really allowing for kind of an
Speaker 1: egalitarian approach to this is what we understand to be
Speaker 1: health promoting. This is what we know works. Now, let's
Speaker 1: put it in the hands of the entire labor force
Speaker 1: and the entire workforce in order for everyone to be
Speaker 1: able to benefit from. Well, this has been really interesting.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Joanna. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Everything Joanna is talking about sounds pretty great. Like I
Speaker 1: think it's it sort of goes without saying that most
Speaker 1: people would like to work in an office where there's
Speaker 1: some like flooding through the windows and walking paths that
Speaker 1: you can take breaks on and help the snacks and
Speaker 1: things like that, So I think it's hard to argue
Speaker 1: that actively designed offices aren't good. But what I'm wondering
Speaker 1: is where it stops, because most companies are doing more
Speaker 1: than that, and they're doing it because it helps their
Speaker 1: bottom line. Yeah, because the more they know, the better
Speaker 1: return on their investment they can theoretically get. And some
Speaker 1: of these programs are a bit too invasive for employees. UM.
Speaker 1: There is a bill going through Congress now that will
Speaker 1: allow employers to require their employees to go through genetic
Speaker 1: testing in order to get their health insurance UM, which
Speaker 1: does seem overly invasive. Do you want your employer to
Speaker 1: know you're predisposed to I don't know breast cancer or
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's or anything that's that's sort of nutty. And I
Speaker 1: guess it's like, once we accept that it's our company's
Speaker 1: job or our company's right to get us healthier, how
Speaker 1: much information about ourselves are we willing to give over
Speaker 1: to them. I don't know the right answer. I'd like
Speaker 1: to work in a healthy fit office and generally be healthier,
Speaker 1: but I don't want my company to know everything about
Speaker 1: my health. I also want that discounted health insurance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I love free snacks, and this is a good
Speaker 1: time for half packed as half fake takes. You can
Speaker 1: leave us a message with your half bag take or
Speaker 1: anything else at two on two six one seven zero
Speaker 1: one six. Another piece of exciting news you can also
Speaker 1: hear weekly from me and Becca if you subscribe to
Speaker 1: our awesome game Plan newsletter. Just go to Bloomberg dot
Speaker 1: com slash Newsletters and check game Plan. Before we get
Speaker 1: to our half big takes, this week's listener, half big
Speaker 1: Take comes from a Twitter user who goes by Kylie
Speaker 1: Jenner on the platform, but is not actually Kylie Jenner. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: she has a very interesting Half Big Take, which is
Speaker 1: going to be read by a volunteer actress also known
Speaker 1: as our producer, Liz. Security should not shame me for
Speaker 1: using the stairs. I know we're not supposed to, but
Speaker 1: it's healthy and I use the handrail, so let me
Speaker 1: be and stop your futile attempts to limit my cardio.
Speaker 1: I'm not using the elevators because they're always crowded and
Speaker 1: I deserve better. This is an eight story buildings, so
Speaker 1: trust and believe that the stairs are manageable. Also by
Speaker 1: to my coworkers who think I used the stairs because
Speaker 1: I'm better. Okay, I want to be clear that that
Speaker 1: was a thread first of all on Twitter, and it's
Speaker 1: the first time. I believe this is right Becca. Is
Speaker 1: this the first time we were ever threaded at? I
Speaker 1: think so on Twitter. It's a it's a huge honor. Um.
Speaker 1: I have to say that I agree with us Half
Speaker 1: Big Take. We have aggressive security here and I do
Speaker 1: feel like they try to shame you into not using
Speaker 1: the stairs. We have a we have a complex lobby system.
Speaker 1: You have to get there by elevators, and also like
Speaker 1: the stairs are not that easy to get to their
Speaker 1: behind scary looking red doors and in faired corners. You
Speaker 1: don't know where they lead, but you just want to
Speaker 1: be healthy, which this is so on brand. Yes, this
Speaker 1: is half they take and Kylie is right and we
Speaker 1: support her efforts to get tone caps. Thank you for
Speaker 1: your happy take, Kylie. Becca. Why don't you tell me
Speaker 1: what your thought of the day is That probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: be spoken. This is controversial. I've floated it to some people. Um,
Speaker 1: with the end of winter, I would like to say
Speaker 1: that clementines are the perfect snack. They're winter fruit. That's
Speaker 1: why I mentioned winter. They're the only good thing about
Speaker 1: winter in my opinion, and they're just a bite sized
Speaker 1: delight and it's like once you probably can't stop, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because it's fruit, and they're so easy
Speaker 1: to peel. They're not messy. They come in their own
Speaker 1: individual little sizes. I guess the problem I've heard from
Speaker 1: people is that they're too small. But I like bite
Speaker 1: sized pieces of things that I can snack on forever
Speaker 1: and ever and ever. Is it so? I tend to
Speaker 1: agree with you here. I don't think there's anything wrong
Speaker 1: with the clementine. You can drop a couple of them
Speaker 1: in your bag. I guess the skin is not quite
Speaker 1: hardy enough that you can just like drop it into
Speaker 1: your bag. You need to maybe put it in a
Speaker 1: protective drop in there and doesn't get pierced. The they're
Speaker 1: A thing I've heard about this being not a good
Speaker 1: take is that it's like you have to peel the
Speaker 1: whole thing and then you have a tiny fruit. But
Speaker 1: I like it. They're so easy to peels, no seeds.
Speaker 1: It's like a little game perfect snack. Sorry, all of
Speaker 1: you haters out there, you don't get a voice on
Speaker 1: our show. You're wrong. Okay, fine if you disagree, calling
Speaker 1: in let me know, Francesca, what is your not fully
Speaker 1: formed idea that shouldn't really be an idea? Um, this
Speaker 1: is a pretty this is a pretty solid rule of
Speaker 1: them I've developed for myself. It may sound kind of extreme,
Speaker 1: but I have developed a zero tolerance policy around alcohol
Speaker 1: and responding to work emails. So let me explain. Obviously,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't send any work emails if you are intoxicated.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things that could go wrong there.
Speaker 1: So like if you're out to drinks with friends and
Speaker 1: you're wasted and you get an email from your boss,
Speaker 1: that email should go unresponded to until the next day,
Speaker 1: but you might think that it's okay onto that email
Speaker 1: if you've had one drink. My philosophy is you have
Speaker 1: to completely remove any doubt that once you've had one drink,
Speaker 1: you are no longer capable of evaluating whether you are
Speaker 1: or not too drunk to respond to that email. And
Speaker 1: if you're getting the email after hours and you feel
Speaker 1: compelled to respond to it, it's probably like a pretty
Speaker 1: important work email, So the situation might be a little heightened,
Speaker 1: like it's something somebody did wrong or you did wrong
Speaker 1: that has to get answered right away, and so that
Speaker 1: throws another wrench into things. And it's just like really
Speaker 1: hard to gauge tone in emails and like strike the
Speaker 1: right tone. So if I've had even a sip of
Speaker 1: alcohol and I have like hankering to respond to a
Speaker 1: work email, I just remind myself of my rule because
Speaker 1: I don't feel drunk. So I'm like, I'm fine, but no,
Speaker 1: you have to have a rule. I think I need
Speaker 1: this rule. I do it. It always comes out weird.
Speaker 1: As we were discussing, Yeah, you get like you just
Speaker 1: it's like you won't necessarily say anything stupid. It's not
Speaker 1: like you're drunk texting your boss, but it'll just sound
Speaker 1: kind of wrong, so don't do it. Zero tolerance alcohol, work, email,
Speaker 1: close your phone, have a few drinks, enjoy your night.
Speaker 1: This has been half big Takes, half Baked Takes. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to game Plan and you can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Francesca Today and I'm at RZ
Speaker 1: Greenfield and you can tweet us your half bake takes,
Speaker 1: or you can call into our hotline at two on
Speaker 1: two six seven zero one six six tell me all
Speaker 1: about why you hate Clementine or why you don't drink
Speaker 1: an email. If you like our show, please go to
Speaker 1: iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, rate us, subscribe
Speaker 1: and review. Every single review really does make a difference,
Speaker 1: so if you like us, that's a great way to
Speaker 1: show it. This show is produced by Liz Smith and
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson. The head of podcast is Alec McCabe and
Speaker 1: we will see you next week. Bye bye Aye. When
Speaker 1: you're saying my acting is bad, fine,