WEBVTT - Here's What Office Workers Need to Get Healthier 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.560 According to the fitness app on my phone, I have 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.160 logged five thousand, forty one steps so far today. Becca, 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.480 what's your step count? I'm at three thousand, seven hundred 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.440 and twenty nine. Not bad for midday, but not quite 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.560 as good as me. Um, you get all your steps 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.840 from walking to the lactation room. Okay, I would dispute that, 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.400 But the real point here is that this is exactly 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.439 the kind of conversation that some employers are dying for 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.000 their employees to have. Today we're talking about all the 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.120 ways that companies try to trick their employees into getting healthier, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.960 and whether they should be doing that at all. This 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:51.040 is game plan. Hi, I'm francesco Leavie and I'm Rebeca Greenfield, 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.520 and today we are talking about workplace wellness and what 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.960 that even means. A few weeks ago, you might remember 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.920 we had an episode where we talked about how much 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.319 sitting people are doing in the modern office and what 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.200 people are doing to get around that, like encouraging the 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.520 use of standing desks. More. This week, we're going to 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:14.319 keep talking about your health at the office, but we're 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.800 talking about bigger things companies are doing to try and 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.240 make you healthier and more fit. Let's start with why 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:26.080 companies care so much about making you healthier. UM health insurance. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.240 That's that's pretty much it. A sick employees cost companies 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.240 a ton of money. They are expensive to ensure. If 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:33.960 you're a really big employer and you pay for your 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.119 own health insurance, then you're paying out a pocket when 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.920 somebody gets sick. And people who get sick don't shoft 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.560 to work and they're not productive. So companies are pouring 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.959 a lot of money into these so called wellness programs. 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.720 I don't love that phrase, but that's what it is. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.520 It sounds like it really means anything. It sounds very 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.640 corporate jargon. But one statistic that's not super current, but 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.120 I think from fifteen found that companies are putting almost 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.880 seven per impull eat into these wellness programs and that 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.880 was a record high because it's so expensive when people 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.800 get sick. That's a lot of money. And as you say, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.640 wellness isn't a word that sounds like it really means much. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.440 So what do those numbers translate into, Like what are 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.440 companies actually spending money on? Wellness is a giant umbrella 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.440 term that can mean so many different things. And it 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.639 can be a smoking sensation programs that you get money 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.000 back if you don't smoke on your health insurance or 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:30.520 for example, I participated in these workout programs happening in 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.200 the office. So some offices will have like boot camp 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.919 in the middle of the day at work. That sounds 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.560 super fun. What was that like? It was mortifying. It 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.880 was mortifying. I was paired up with um, like a 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.720 high up person at a company, and he was doing 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.240 like leg lifts with me, and we're all sweating and 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.960 they're not even my coworkers. And I really didn't like it, 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.520 but the employees did like it because it's hard to 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:55.679 work out and you want to work out in the 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.480 middle of the day, and it's it's a free service 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.440 that your company is offering. And then there's you were 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.840 talking about step challenges, which companies are trying to gamify 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.240 and get people to participate in. Yeah. I worked at 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.880 a company once where there was this step challenge. I 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.200 think different teams were pitted against each other. Everybody was 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:17.160 given a pedometer. My team had I think more competitive 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.480 spirit than we actually had motivation to exercise. So at 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.800 a certain point I do remember us all like sitting 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.760 at our desks shaking our pedometers when we realized that 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.160 that would increase the stepp count. Um, I hope this 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:33.640 doesn't get that team's trophy taken away. I've changed some 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.280 names and identifying details in that story, so you'll never 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.760 know what I'm doing. That is, Yeah, not at all, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:40.880 but that's the opposite of what the company wants to do. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:45.600 That gamification backfired. So that gets to an important point though, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.200 like do these programs work or employer workers around the 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.120 country sitting at their desks and shaking their pardometers. So 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.080 I think there are two problems. First, there's a problem 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.920 of companies don't know how to get the return on investment. 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.320 They know that health their employees cost less money, but 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.080 the research is pretty shaky about which programs work and 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.360 how much the return on investment is. So I think 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.880 the smoking sensiation programs work really well. The programs where 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.360 they help people manage their disease, So if you have 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.800 diabetes and you help your employees manage that, those work 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.920 really well. But health can mean so many different things, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:21.800 and it sounds like companies are trying to tackle it 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.160 from all different angles. Yeah, and as we talked about 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.320 in our standing desk episode something like being sedentary is 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.000 a huge problem for companies, but they can't figure out 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.159 how to get people to do it, which is the 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.479 other problem, and that people don't participate. They don't want 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.120 to do these programs, as you and your old coworkers showed, 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.320 you just wanted to win whatever the prize was, so 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.400 you worked around it. You would rather not walk. So 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.640 what do companies do, Like, how do you get people involved? 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.080 How do you get them to participate? These sticks? They 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.560 threatened people, that's what works. There was the study that 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.320 I read about that it had different people in a 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.840 step challenge. You either got money when you your goal, 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.159 or money was taken away from you when you didn't 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.559 get your goal. The people who had money taken away 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.320 from them outperformed everyone else by far. Because people, when 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.359 they feel threatened, they want to perform. So it works, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.719 But it sounds like kind of a nasty environment to work. Yeah, 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.279 I mean, yeah, exactly do you want to treat your 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.360 employees like this just to keep your health insurance costs down? 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.200 I mean the answer to that is yes, that some 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.159 companies do that. Okay, So what if you didn't have 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:27.480 to do any of that? What if you didn't have 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.880 to get employeed by, and you didn't have to cajole 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.839 people into doing step challenges, and you didn't have to 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.960 threaten them, you could just sort of seduce them into 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.120 being healthier without them even realized that they were being manipulated. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.839 Our guest, Joanna Frank, runs the Center for Active Design, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.680 which has a mission to integrate fitness and health into 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.039 all kinds of public spaces, including offices and full disclosure. 0:05:52.360 --> 0:06:02.039 Is partially funded by Bloomberg Philanthropies. Welcome Joanna, Thank you. 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.440 So why don't you just start by explaining what active 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.640 design is. So there's actually many things about the design 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.359 of your office space that impacts your health. UM, whether 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.880 it's the location of the stair, the location of the 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.600 office itself, UM. Many of these different decisions when you're 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.360 choosing where an office is located and so on, UM 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.719 actually impact the amount of physical activity that you're receiving 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.520 every day, as well as mental health, social attractions on. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.360 Can you give us some specific examples of how you've 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.280 changed an office layout to get some of those health outcomes. 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.760 So it starts with sighting, So where you locate an 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.920 office has a huge impact on the amount of physical 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.520 activity UM and social interactions someone that receives UM. So 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.120 you can imagine if you're in the middle of the 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.960 city like this office, then you're going to take the subway, 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:50.680 You're going to walk down the street to get to 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.120 the office. If you're located somewhere out in the suburbs, 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.240 for instance, that you can only drive to the office, 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.400 then you have no choice about driving, and so you 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.320 don't get that kind of that little bit of activity 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.119 that we all rely on every day. So it starts 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.520 with the sighting. Another example would be UM when you 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.800 first walk into a building. If you see the stair 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.200 when you first walk in, even if it's through a 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.800 glass door, you're much more likely to take the stairs 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.680 then if it's behind a steel door and you have 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.400 no idea where it is, obviously UM. But but again 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.520 it's it's these incremental amounts of physical activity and interaction 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.640 to make a really profound impact on people's health. So 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.560 if you had a company come to you and say, 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.200 we're looking to make our office healthier so our workers 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.640 are healthier, move us from the suburbs to the city. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.640 So we actually run a certification program fitwell, which allows 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.240 companies to actually assess how health promoting a building is 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.640 prior to either moving into that building or if you're 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:47.920 making a decision about which building to lease, et cetera. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.600 So people are absolutely using this information to make a 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.400 difference about, you know, where the workers are actually going 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.520 to be in the first place. And then they're using 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.320 the same information when they're doing a fit out or 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.040 if they're renovate eating the space. UM, they're using this 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.320 information to actually inform the design what kind of things 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.280 what a company have to do to meet the fit 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.360 well certification. So it starts off with the sighting, So 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.680 what neighborhood you choose to locate in UM and there's 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.960 a lot of kind of metrics around more health promoting 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.600 community and neighborhood. And then it really just kind of 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.480 goes as if you're walking through the space. So it 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.680 starts off with the entrance of the building, how does 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.440 that support interaction both with the community at large, but 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.920 also how does it start to indicate that this is 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.040 an environment that promotes health? And then the stairs and 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.080 then it moves on as if you're walking through the building, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:39.079 so shared spaces, workspaces, food access, you know what food 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.080 is being provided, vending machines, even emergency procedures. So it 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.560 really is kind of all aspects of the workplace that's affected. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.640 What kind of entrance as the healthiest looking and trans 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.200 um Also, entrances have a couple of different roles there. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.920 They're obviously that transition moment um, and so it's both 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.880 connecting you back with the resources that are in the community. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.080 So say you're in a neighborhood that has a park 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.440 two blocks away, then you can use the messaging and 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.520 signage within the entrance to actually connect your employees with 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.400 those resources. Or if there's a supermarket, or if the 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.640 transit and so on, so you can really use the 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.800 entrance to communicate what is available in the greater community. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:18.800 And then of course it is the location where a 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.040 stair would be, so you use it for the stair 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.319 as well. Um, And there's also a great emphasis on 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.679 universal accessibility, so really looking at how to provide equity 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.240 for vulnerable populations and how design and operations of buildings 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.440 can do that. You were talking about the sighting of 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.560 an office. Where the office is located. Some officers may 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.600 be forced to be in a suburban area. Are there 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.480 things they can do around siting if they're if they're 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.040 not in an urban area, that are more active than others. Absolutely, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.320 the great thing about fit well is that it really 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.720 is looking at existing buildings and the conditions that they 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.000 are actually experiencing. UM. And so if you are in 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.720 a suburban or rural neighborhood or location, then you have 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.280 a different set of opportunities. So you probably have more space, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.880 and you probably have outdoor space, which of course you 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.600 wouldn't have if you're in an urban location. So then 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.880 it's a case of doing UM, having walking trails, having 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.560 garden spaces, having maybe a farmer's market if it's a campus. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.480 So there are many different things you can do. If 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:20.040 you're in a suburban location, you'll also probably have more 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.240 square foot within your space, and so you can have 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.559 exercise rooms and quiet rooms, you know, where space is 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.040 probably tighter in an urban location. So there is absolutely 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.160 a whole set of things you can do regardless of 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.240 the actual location of your office. And that's kind of 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.280 the point. The point is, whatever you are, whatever your 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.360 office space looks like, there are many things that you 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.920 can do to to promote health. What would you say 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.679 as the simplest thing at office? Can do a lot 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.400 of these things I'm hearing sound like kind of big overhauls. Sure, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.840 I mean there's many things that have no cost. So 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.760 there are a whole list of operational strategies and so 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.880 that's as kind of practical as a pest management says 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.880 integrated pest management plan. But it's also things like signage. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.120 Signage has a really big impact on people's behavior. And 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.360 obviously that's not difficult to do or expensive. So even 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.719 if you can't move the stair just having signage that 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.079 says the stair is over there in the corner will 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.760 actually affect the number of people using the stairs or 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.400 saying you know, we are in office. That promotes health 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.000 for these reasons, that actually changes behavior. Our office is 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.960 obsessed with signage. There are lots of a lot of arrows. Yeah, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.319 I was gonna ask something like you mentioned people seeing 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.840 this staircase when they first walk in. What are the 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.000 health benefits of that? What have them? Is shown to 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.439 be sure, so it increases the number of flights of 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.720 stairs that you take a day, um and some of 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.320 the research shows that just as six flights of stairs 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.719 a day is enough to offset the average annual weight 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.520 gain of an American UM it also decreases the risk 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.560 of stroke. Um So, we know that the three greatest 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.840 risk factors for chronic disease so diabetes, heart disease, etcetera, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.839 are smoking, diet, and lack of physical activity. So if 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:06.000 you can use your building, your workplace to actually mitigate 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.800 the risk of those three aspects, you are obviously then 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.240 reducing the risk of chronic disease, which is the largest 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.000 kind of killer in this country. What what you may 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.600 know not know though, however, is that social isolation is 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:23.200 actually fast becoming an equivalent kind of risk factor, as 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.600 is physical inactivity and smoking. So the three are actually 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.480 kind of neck and neck for for kin of having 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.120 a risk factor. So with social isolation something that can 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.520 be tackled in the workplace as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So interestingly, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.480 some of the evidence around social isolation again comes to 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.080 that kind of sighting. So if you're if you're able 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.640 to cite your office somewhere that is within a neighborhood 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.760 that's walkable, just that kind of casual interaction. There's evidence 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:54.160 base around that. Mitigating social isolation also kind of decreasing 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.000 car use, because car uses inherently kind of isolating. Um. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:12:59.400 So yeah, there's a lot of things you can do 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.600 having shared spaces that encourage social interaction in a in 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.200 a workplace. Um. So it's it's it's really interesting evidence 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.600 and it's something that's really actually continuing to evolve over time. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.040 What about lighting? Have you done or reviewed much research 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.600 on how the type of light effects working conditions? Yes, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.400 so there are some strategies and fit well around light 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.160 because there is a significant body of evidence. I think 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.840 the strongest evidences around having access to natural light, so 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.160 to be being able to see outside basically, um and 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.280 knowing you know what time of dead is that that 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.120 has the greatest evidence space around it. Do you think 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.600 most buildings office buildings in America are abiding by these 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.880 strategies or do we have a long way to go? 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.440 So if it is brand new, I mean we are 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.920 in week five, so it's I mean active design has 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.319 obviously been around for for a long time and actually 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.679 started under the Bloomberg administration, um when the mug was 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.320 the mayor of New York City. So it's been around 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.920 for a while. But active design just looked at physical 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.800 activity and now we've obviously expanded. Um So what I 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.640 would say about fit weell is that there's a great 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.480 deal of interest both from the people who own buildings, 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.440 so real estate developers and so on. UM. There's also 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.319 a great deal of interest from employers about how they 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.880 can use this evidence space to really inform future decisions 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.520 around how they invest in employee health. I understand why 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:21.000 employer's word care. Obviously it keeps their employees healthier and 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.160 that's cheaper for them, and I guess that's a good 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.480 social good. Why the real estate developers care, it's really 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.160 building on the success of the sustainability movement. So real 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.640 estate developers already saw a market advantage to being seen 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.120 to be an early adopter of sustainability practices UM. And 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.280 so there's an opportunity now to be seen to be 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.000 promoting health UM. And the evidence space is there, so 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.640 it's not speculative. This isn't an opinion about whether you 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.960 can do so UM and so there's an opportunity to 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:51.040 really differentiate their portfolios UM and then obviously encourage new 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.480 tenants and tenants who are in their buildings that they 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.080 will understand that they are actually in an environment that 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.040 is actually affecting productivity. So one of the things that 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.000 we see and that the it and space supports is 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:05.080 that if you have a healthier employee, those employees are 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.400 more productive, So there's there's definitely a correlation between the two. 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.400 So your center develops best practices. And we're fortunate enough 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.920 to work in an office that I think utilizes some 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.359 of those but a lot of people will find familiar 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.840 the descriptions of the office where like the microwave is 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.800 never cleaned out, and those stairwells impossible to find, and 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.360 there's no natural light for those of us that work 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.560 in those types of offices, and I think everybody probably 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.120 has at one point or another. Is there anything individuals 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.400 can do to change their own space to make it 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.880 more conducive to fitness or movement or just being healthy. Sure, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:43.520 I mean absolutely, And I think what is really interesting 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.720 about this movement is it is actually being driven by 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.320 employee demand. So the reason that we are seeing so 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.760 much interest from employers is because they know that their 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.920 employees are looking at the environment that they work in 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.200 as one of the deciding factors about who they going 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.160 to work with in the first place, and then whether 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.360 they stay at that um in that job. So there 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.280 is definitely an understanding from business that they can actually 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.840 attract talent talent sorry, and also retain their talent and 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.560 their employees if they provide an environment that is health 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.160 promoting and if they are seen to be providing an 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.040 environment that is health promoting. And what I would say 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.280 is that, UM, whether system like fit Well or any 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.960 of the stuff that we do, it's it's about incremental change. 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.480 So you don't have to suddenly look like this amazing 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.400 office building we're in right now. UM, you just need 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.640 to understand like where you are now and what it 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.240 is you should be prioritizing, and then just start to 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.240 do it. You know, every little thing that you do 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.360 is actually going to have an impact on health. So 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.520 even if it's only about putting signage up in the 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.280 building and you do nothing else, that's at least the start, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.840 and it starts to actually move the needle. So I 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.040 think that that's the kind of the messages that everybody 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.160 can do something UM. And the idea is that by 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.000 democratizing this information and really putting it out there for 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.160 everyone to see, what the evidence space is, what the 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.600 strategies are, UM, you're really allowing for kind of an 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.639 egalitarian approach to this is what we understand to be 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.440 health promoting. This is what we know works. Now, let's 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.480 put it in the hands of the entire labor force 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.359 and the entire workforce in order for everyone to be 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.919 able to benefit from. Well, this has been really interesting. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.280 Thank you so much for joining us, Joanna. Thank you. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.520 Everything Joanna is talking about sounds pretty great. Like I 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.520 think it's it sort of goes without saying that most 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.920 people would like to work in an office where there's 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.879 some like flooding through the windows and walking paths that 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.159 you can take breaks on and help the snacks and 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.800 things like that, So I think it's hard to argue 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.640 that actively designed offices aren't good. But what I'm wondering 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.280 is where it stops, because most companies are doing more 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.400 than that, and they're doing it because it helps their 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:00.200 bottom line. Yeah, because the more they know, the better 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.560 return on their investment they can theoretically get. And some 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.800 of these programs are a bit too invasive for employees. UM. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.800 There is a bill going through Congress now that will 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:15.760 allow employers to require their employees to go through genetic 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.359 testing in order to get their health insurance UM, which 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.119 does seem overly invasive. Do you want your employer to 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.639 know you're predisposed to I don't know breast cancer or 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.639 Alzheimer's or anything that's that's sort of nutty. And I 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.320 guess it's like, once we accept that it's our company's 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.679 job or our company's right to get us healthier, how 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.280 much information about ourselves are we willing to give over 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.919 to them. I don't know the right answer. I'd like 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.119 to work in a healthy fit office and generally be healthier, 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.320 but I don't want my company to know everything about 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.800 my health. I also want that discounted health insurance. Yeah, 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.800 and I love free snacks, and this is a good 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:04.800 time for half packed as half fake takes. You can 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:06.600 leave us a message with your half bag take or 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.720 anything else at two on two six one seven zero 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.760 one six. Another piece of exciting news you can also 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.159 hear weekly from me and Becca if you subscribe to 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.920 our awesome game Plan newsletter. Just go to Bloomberg dot 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.600 com slash Newsletters and check game Plan. Before we get 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.200 to our half big takes, this week's listener, half big 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.639 Take comes from a Twitter user who goes by Kylie 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:36.680 Jenner on the platform, but is not actually Kylie Jenner. Nonetheless, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.520 she has a very interesting Half Big Take, which is 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.720 going to be read by a volunteer actress also known 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.879 as our producer, Liz. Security should not shame me for 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.639 using the stairs. I know we're not supposed to, but 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.760 it's healthy and I use the handrail, so let me 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.400 be and stop your futile attempts to limit my cardio. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.240 I'm not using the elevators because they're always crowded and 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.000 I deserve better. This is an eight story buildings, so 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.760 trust and believe that the stairs are manageable. Also by 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.320 to my coworkers who think I used the stairs because 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.159 I'm better. Okay, I want to be clear that that 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.680 was a thread first of all on Twitter, and it's 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.480 the first time. I believe this is right Becca. Is 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.399 this the first time we were ever threaded at? I 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.360 think so on Twitter. It's a it's a huge honor. Um. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.360 I have to say that I agree with us Half 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.399 Big Take. We have aggressive security here and I do 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.520 feel like they try to shame you into not using 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.639 the stairs. We have a we have a complex lobby system. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.879 You have to get there by elevators, and also like 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.440 the stairs are not that easy to get to their 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.200 behind scary looking red doors and in faired corners. You 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.439 don't know where they lead, but you just want to 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.440 be healthy, which this is so on brand. Yes, this 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:53.280 is half they take and Kylie is right and we 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.000 support her efforts to get tone caps. Thank you for 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.040 your happy take, Kylie. Becca. Why don't you tell me 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:03.840 what your thought of the day is That probably shouldn't 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:09.640