Speaker 1: Welcome to Couples Counseling with Chelsea hand Job, where.
Speaker 2: We do couples counseling on all sorts of variations of friends, lovers, families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to my office. Okay, Hi, Hi Catherine, we are doing.
Speaker 2: Welcome to our midisode.
Speaker 1: Hello Chelsea. You know I like everything nugget sized you do. Indeed, Chelsea,
Speaker 1: should we just jump right into it? Of course I
Speaker 1: have pursuquesto.
Speaker 3: I have a couple of fun emails today, one follow
Speaker 3: up and one just that I got that I thought
Speaker 3: was good to share. Gretchen says, Hi, Chelsea, I loved
Speaker 3: your new book so fun and entertaining. Sometimes audiobook narration
Speaker 3: cannot do justice to its content, but I must say
Speaker 3: you nailed it. Congratulations, Gretchen.
Speaker 1: So nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a good reminder too, like I feel
Speaker 3: like with personal stories and especially for comedians, like always
Speaker 3: go audiobook.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a couple notes that I talk too
Speaker 2: fast on this audible. Most of the notes say that
Speaker 2: people love it and da da da, And it's also
Speaker 2: on all the lists, so thank you for that, all
Speaker 2: the best selling lists, audio lists. But I do want
Speaker 2: to say that's how I fucking talk, so like, I'm
Speaker 2: sorry that I talked fast, but if I were talking slowly,
Speaker 2: that wouldn't really be authentically who I am.
Speaker 3: And also, guess what, people can play it on point
Speaker 3: seventy five, so that's up to them.
Speaker 1: Oh they can slow it down. Yeah, yeah, So if
Speaker 1: you think I talked.
Speaker 2: Too fast, welcome to my world. It's called I'll have
Speaker 2: what she's having In case you haven't heard.
Speaker 3: Yes, And then our next follow up comes from Aspen.
Speaker 1: She had called in. She was a.
Speaker 3: Hairdresser who called in on our Low Bosworth episode. She
Speaker 3: was in a career funk, and so she let us know.
Speaker 3: I've actually been meaning to follow up with y'all. It
Speaker 3: was kind of crazy. Actually, I had been in that
Speaker 3: career slum for about a year when I emailed in.
Speaker 3: I really love where I work, but I needed a
Speaker 3: new challenge. Low and Chelsea really encouraged me to just
Speaker 3: settle in and enjoy my success, and I did just
Speaker 3: that for a few weeks.
Speaker 1: I shit you not.
Speaker 3: A few weeks after the chat, the women who own
Speaker 3: my salon offered me a twenty percent ownership of the
Speaker 3: company with a whole new set of responsibilities. Oh god, yes,
Speaker 3: I'll profit share with the rest of the ownership team
Speaker 3: as well. So it's safe to say my question was
Speaker 3: answered and the universe worked its magic, and now my
Speaker 3: next ten years are fully planned and booked.
Speaker 2: Thanks again, look at that and see if she had left,
Speaker 2: she would have never gotten that exactly, and that It's
Speaker 2: not usual that I tell people to sit where they
Speaker 2: are and enjoy it, right. Usually I might get the
Speaker 2: fuck out of there.
Speaker 3: No, but it's like, sometimes there's a little magic in
Speaker 3: the air happening on the show.
Speaker 2: You do think, so sometimes there's just magic in the
Speaker 2: air happening, So you got to really fucking look at it.
Speaker 1: Look up, but don't miss the rainbows. People.
Speaker 3: Well, our question today for our Minisoda comes from Gemma
Speaker 3: and Cameron. They're a husband and wife. Oh good, I
Speaker 3: love couples. Yes, Gemma rights. Dear Chelsea. My relationship with
Speaker 3: my sister in law has always been complicated. For context,
Speaker 3: we're both in our early thirties and my husband is
Speaker 3: in his late thirties. Before we met, she said I
Speaker 3: wasn't pretty enough for her brother. When we met, she
Speaker 3: acted like she liked me and then went back to
Speaker 3: not liking me. I asked her if I had done
Speaker 3: anything wrong, and she said she was just protective of
Speaker 3: her brother and apologized. That was ten years ago. Since then,
Speaker 3: we've gone back and forth between having a good relationship
Speaker 3: and not speaking at all. Sometimes she's cool and fun
Speaker 3: to be around, and sometimes she's passive, aggressive, moody, and
Speaker 3: self centered. I've tried to do everything right, but I've
Speaker 3: always had to walk on eggshells with her. Last year,
Speaker 3: when we both got pregnant at the same time, she
Speaker 3: started reaching out to me regularly and we finally had
Speaker 3: a great relationship for the first time. I was so
Speaker 3: excited that we were on good terms and our babies
Speaker 3: could grow up together. We hung out multiple times and
Speaker 3: I thought her issues with me were finally in the past.
Speaker 3: Then we spent a weekend with my husband's family and
Speaker 3: things went south again. She told my husband that everyone
Speaker 3: in her family doesn't like me or how I treat him.
Speaker 3: I admit I can have an attitude, but nothing crazy. Nevertheless,
Speaker 3: I texted her a long apology and assured her it
Speaker 3: wouldn't happen again. She was understanding and seemed to forgive me,
Speaker 3: But since then, her passive aggressive behavior has made it
Speaker 3: obvious that she didn't forgive me. My husband had a
Speaker 3: serious conversation with her about it, and she admitted that
Speaker 3: she just doesn't like me and never has. I feel
Speaker 3: like she's been waiting for ten years for me to
Speaker 3: do something wrong and I finally did, and she's never
Speaker 3: going to let it go.
Speaker 1: Where do I go from here? What would Chelsea do?
Speaker 4: Hillo?
Speaker 2: Jemma and Cameron Hi, Okay, So, Jemma, what was the
Speaker 2: last infraction that you apologized for where she kind of
Speaker 2: got what she was looking for from your version of things.
Speaker 5: So I didn't even know that I had done anything wrong.
Speaker 5: This was news to me.
Speaker 4: But I'm a very straightforward and blunt person, and if
Speaker 4: my husband is irritating me, I'm going to tell him
Speaker 4: that he's irritating me. And so it was I feel
Speaker 4: like a situation like that, but it was just in
Speaker 4: front of her and I had a little bit of
Speaker 4: an attitude with him and she didn't like it, and
Speaker 4: so I apologize. I was like, you're right, Like, if
Speaker 4: I made you uncomfortable, I'm very sorry, Like I did
Speaker 4: not mean to speak badly to my husband. I'll try
Speaker 4: to be more aware of what I'm doing and saying
Speaker 4: kind of thing, and I thought that everything.
Speaker 5: Was good after that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, well it sounds like this has been like
Speaker 2: an ongoing thing. Right, So she's touch and go hot
Speaker 2: and cold. And then so Cameron, what was your conversation
Speaker 2: with her after that?
Speaker 6: After that? And it was my sister, Well, my mom
Speaker 6: brought it to my attention.
Speaker 1: First, and then you know in what way she was.
Speaker 7: Just like, you know, your your sister's really uncomfortable with
Speaker 7: basically how he retreated that weekend. She tends to blow
Speaker 7: everything up like way out of proportion, Like I didn't
Speaker 7: even think it was. I didn't realize there was a problem.
Speaker 7: To be honest with you, nothing offended me, So I
Speaker 7: don't know why she was so offended. She tends to
Speaker 7: be a little bit overprotective of me, just given how
Speaker 7: we grew up. You know, our my mom was a
Speaker 7: flight attendant and there was it was really just her
Speaker 7: and I around a lot. So she's pretty protective. But
Speaker 7: it goes too far oftentimes. Yeah, and so it does
Speaker 7: get frustrating, and I've had serious conversations with her about it,
Speaker 7: but she seems just unwilling to change, and so it's
Speaker 7: it's making it hard to have a relationship and I
Speaker 7: get caught in the middle because I want to have
Speaker 7: a relationship with her and we want our daughters to
Speaker 7: have a relationship. But when she's not willing to forgive
Speaker 7: or makes all these passive aggressive comments constantly, it just
Speaker 7: makes it really hard.
Speaker 1: And she told you in this last conversation that your
Speaker 1: whole family doesn't like Gemma.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which is not true. It's just her trying to
Speaker 6: be hurtful.
Speaker 2: Of course, it sounds very immature, like somebody who's very
Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like, first of.
Speaker 1: All, it's her problem. A how old are your kids
Speaker 1: now they're toddlers? Okay?
Speaker 2: And do they have a relationship with each other, your
Speaker 2: kids and your sister's kids.
Speaker 5: I mean not at the moment because we don't see them.
Speaker 6: We're not going to make an effort to visit.
Speaker 1: Them, okay.
Speaker 2: And what's your sister's husband's situation.
Speaker 1: Does he just fall in line with what she thinks
Speaker 1: or what's that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, he stays out of it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's kind of going to require a
Speaker 2: little bit of you guys being tough. You specifically Cameron,
Speaker 2: because of your relationship with your sister, you really have
Speaker 2: to kind of put your foot down and like lay
Speaker 2: it out, like, Okay, I'm not leaving my wife. This
Speaker 2: is my family. We have a child, So this is
Speaker 2: the way it's going to be. If you don't want
Speaker 2: to be in our lives, then that's something that we're
Speaker 2: going to have to have a conversation about. Because I'm
Speaker 2: not leaving my wife. I don't want to have to
Speaker 2: choose between my sister and my wife. And I don't
Speaker 2: think you want me to have to choose between my
Speaker 2: sister and my wife either. So this seems more like
Speaker 2: a you problem. Gemma doesn't have an issue with you.
Speaker 2: She has been trying for.
Speaker 1: Did you say ten years?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, ten years on and off, going in and out
Speaker 2: of this relationship, kind of basically being manipulated by this woman.
Speaker 2: When she feels friendly, she's friendly, and when she doesn't,
Speaker 2: she's not.
Speaker 1: Like it's not fair to you either, Gemma at all.
Speaker 2: And you telling your husband that he's irritating you is
Speaker 2: very healthy in my opinion, regardless of who it's in
Speaker 2: front of, Like that is very hell rather than being
Speaker 2: passive aggressive you know what I mean, that's very direct.
Speaker 1: You're annoying me, please stop.
Speaker 2: So I think that it's a matter, and I don't
Speaker 2: think you should double team her in that sense, like
Speaker 2: I think Jemma, you should just stay out of it.
Speaker 2: You've tried hard enough. You have to kind of let
Speaker 2: her do her thing, and you're not going to ingratiate
Speaker 2: yourself towards her anymore.
Speaker 1: You've done it, you've done it.
Speaker 2: You've done it, you've done it, and now she wants
Speaker 2: to come back and say, everyone in my family doesn't
Speaker 2: like you. So that's her strikeout. She has struck out
Speaker 2: with you guys as a couple. So I think Cameron,
Speaker 2: it's really up to you to be like, listen, I've
Speaker 2: done a lot of soul searching.
Speaker 1: I've thought about this a lot.
Speaker 2: I've talked you know, if you guys want to talk
Speaker 2: to a professional therapist about it, you can.
Speaker 1: But I would intimate that you have spoken to like an.
Speaker 2: Outside party about it and be like, this is just
Speaker 2: so immature.
Speaker 1: We don't want to deal with this anymore.
Speaker 2: We're trying to have a beautiful life and we want
Speaker 2: you to be a part of that life. But if
Speaker 2: you're going to tell me you don't like my wife
Speaker 2: and that you can't make efforts, then I don't know
Speaker 2: where we go from here.
Speaker 1: You know, you kind of have to lay it on
Speaker 1: the line that like she might lose you as a.
Speaker 2: Brother, whether you know whether you mean it or not,
Speaker 2: Like it is kind of something you have to think
Speaker 2: about because and you both have young children that could
Speaker 2: be like spending time together and hanging out together and
Speaker 2: developing their cousinly bond. She's missing out on all of
Speaker 2: these opportunities by holding on to something from ten years
Speaker 2: ago or however long she doesn't like you.
Speaker 1: It's just it's it's not relevant right now.
Speaker 4: Thank you for validating that, because that's where I've been
Speaker 4: at for a long time, where I'm like, I just
Speaker 4: feel like I'm done, Like there's nothing else that I
Speaker 4: can say or do, and I haven't wanted to put
Speaker 4: him in the middle of it, but I also feel
Speaker 4: like that's really the only solution at this point. And
Speaker 4: I also just wonder, like what am I supposed to
Speaker 4: do after the fact, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 4: how am I supposed to be into the same spaces
Speaker 4: with this person? And am I supposed to just keep
Speaker 4: eating shit and be friendly and pretend everything's all good?
Speaker 5: Or should I just ignore?
Speaker 4: Like I just don't know because I'm I know myself
Speaker 4: and I'm just like I'm a girl's girl. Like once
Speaker 4: we're sitting around drinking wine together, I'm gonna pretend that
Speaker 4: it all never happened and just be cool about it again,
Speaker 4: because I don't want to deal with drama, Like I.
Speaker 5: Don't care about that.
Speaker 4: So I feel like I never know how to address
Speaker 4: it because it's hard to address.
Speaker 5: A passive, aggressive person in the first one.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, because it's dishonest.
Speaker 4: No, I can't have an honest conversation about it, and
Speaker 4: that's where I just have to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, We've had this before with different callers where most
Speaker 3: of the time, if it is your family member that's
Speaker 3: kind of acting up toward your partner, it is sort
Speaker 3: of like your role to go in. You understand the
Speaker 3: family dynamic better because you grew up in it, and
Speaker 3: like you, your family member will forgive a multitude of
Speaker 3: quote unquote sins, where as they might not for your partner,
Speaker 3: you know. So, Yeah, I do you think when that
Speaker 3: next conversation happens, it's on you? And I think, like
Speaker 3: Chelsea was saying, it's very immature, right, It's like I
Speaker 3: feel like your sister's in time out right now, treater
Speaker 3: like the toddler she's acting like. And then when it's
Speaker 3: time to maybe come out of time out, you can
Speaker 3: have that conversation.
Speaker 1: We want you in our life.
Speaker 3: But the boundary is you're not allowed to say mean
Speaker 3: shit time wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not allowed to say mean shit or and
Speaker 2: be passive aggressive to my wife. This is the partner
Speaker 2: I've chosen. This is my wife. We're not getting a divorce.
Speaker 2: I have a child with her. We are a family.
Speaker 2: Do you want to be part of that or do
Speaker 2: you not want to be part of that? This is
Speaker 2: a choice on you. You get to decide. You're not
Speaker 2: saying you're not excommunicating her, You're telling her to make
Speaker 2: the decision. And when she does make the decision, these
Speaker 2: are the boundaries that are now in place because of
Speaker 2: her ongoing ten year behavior.
Speaker 1: So it's now pathological.
Speaker 2: She's done this over and over again and because she's
Speaker 2: a baby, And you can have this in a conversation,
Speaker 2: you could say it in an email. You know, you
Speaker 2: don't have to do it immediately, but you do have
Speaker 2: to stay up for Gemma. And in a way that's
Speaker 2: like not threatening, but like we're just not interested in
Speaker 2: communicating like this anymore and dealing with this. Well, we
Speaker 2: don't want to have every family gathering Gemma leaving and
Speaker 2: wondering what she did wrong or having to apologize for something.
Speaker 2: I'm fine with the way she treats me. I love her,
Speaker 2: I appreciate her directness. I don't see it the way
Speaker 2: that you see it. I don't feel like I'm being
Speaker 2: abused in my marriage, you know, all of those things,
Speaker 2: like it's just silly, Like what's her endgame here to
Speaker 2: get you guys to get divorced? You know you should
Speaker 2: ask her that. Yeah, but you should ask her that. Cameron,
Speaker 2: you should go, I'm sorry, what are you trying to do?
Speaker 2: Do you think you're going to get me to get
Speaker 2: to divorce? That's not going to happen. So there's either
Speaker 2: you can move in to accept it. Maybe she should
Speaker 2: talk to someone. I mean that usually sounds a little
Speaker 2: bit patronizing when you tell someone to talk to someone,
Speaker 2: But I think you can say that all without being patronized.
Speaker 2: It just like we've kind of had enough, And I
Speaker 2: also think it wouldn't be wrong to share it with
Speaker 2: your family. This is how we're feeling, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel good when we a family gathering, it doesn't feel
Speaker 2: good like we're you know, and reminding them of your
Speaker 2: togetherness so that they realize and then they can talk
Speaker 2: amongst each other and be like, Okay, we're just gonna
Speaker 2: have to do better, you know, hopefully is the outcome.
Speaker 2: And I think with your parents' influence, if they're kind
Speaker 2: of normal, are your parents pretty even keeled.
Speaker 1: Or they cool? Are they going to side with her?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is that what the mind is as well?
Speaker 7: My mom probably will, but I mean she also listens
Speaker 7: to me, so if I if I bring it to
Speaker 7: her attention in a non emotional manner, I think that
Speaker 7: she'll actually hear what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think maybe it's an email that you
Speaker 2: or a conversation that you have with your mom and
Speaker 2: your sister so that they have some that they can
Speaker 2: have a conversation about it after and where they could
Speaker 2: come to an agreement. You're not making my life easier.
Speaker 2: You're making my life harder. Is that what you want? Like,
Speaker 2: you're making my life more difficult because now I have
Speaker 2: to think about.
Speaker 1: Do I want to see you guys?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 2: This is not fun. You guys are steering me away
Speaker 2: from you.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Don't put any of the
Speaker 1: blame on her.
Speaker 2: Put the blame on the people that are acting that
Speaker 2: way towards her. Like, it's not their job to decide
Speaker 2: whether or not you're being respected in your relationship. You're
Speaker 2: not being abused your child children, you're not in danger.
Speaker 1: Your child is not in danger.
Speaker 2: Someone's saying that you're annoying or you know the way,
Speaker 2: get over it. I'm with her, like, yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: a problem for you, So why is it a problem
Speaker 2: for them? And lay it down so that they feel
Speaker 2: like they have to make a decision about this and
Speaker 2: like come together and end it in love, you know,
Speaker 2: like I really love you, guys. I really hope that
Speaker 2: this conversation will change the dynamic between us. And you
Speaker 2: can reiterate. She's just like take it or leave it.
Speaker 2: She's like, I can see your family or not see
Speaker 2: your face. It's you that has the problem with it,
Speaker 2: so that they can't pin anything more on her.
Speaker 6: Yep, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5: I think that's great advice. Make him do all the work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I have a situation like this
Speaker 2: with my family, my sister in law. She's not passive aggressive,
Speaker 2: but she's annoying. She's not passed aggressive, but her belief
Speaker 2: system is.
Speaker 1: Not like my own. And I've come to the end
Speaker 1: of my rope.
Speaker 2: I have extended my generosity, I have done everything that
Speaker 2: I could to be a good sister in law and
Speaker 2: I'm wrapped.
Speaker 1: I'm done.
Speaker 2: So like I I can relate to the situation. It's
Speaker 2: completely different circumstances. But yeah, it's not your problem. It's
Speaker 2: not your family. You know what I mean. I mean
Speaker 2: it is your family, but it's not your family. You know,
Speaker 2: you married into this family. You don't deserve to be
Speaker 2: treated that way, especially when you love your husband.
Speaker 1: And especially when you are at the chill girl who's like,
Speaker 1: I'll just get over it. You don't, yes, exactly, like
Speaker 1: you can take this and move on. You don't need
Speaker 1: to come to Jesus with them.
Speaker 2: Just act normal and be normal and consistent, like not
Speaker 2: gotten cold. It's not fair. That's abusive. Being hot and
Speaker 2: cold is manipulative and abusive.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what do you do, Chelsea when you're around
Speaker 4: your sister in law now?
Speaker 2: Because I ignore her, you ignore you ignore her. You
Speaker 2: don't have to do anything, You don't have to play nice.
Speaker 2: You just she's in a room and you guys are
Speaker 2: all in a conversation.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: You have to engage with her one on one. You
Speaker 2: don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1: Don't go out of your way. You're done doing that.
Speaker 2: If she wants to come to you and actually make
Speaker 2: moves to be friendly and do, then great, reciprocate, but
Speaker 2: don't bend over backwards for her anymore. That's what she wants,
Speaker 2: and she knows she's got the upper hand because she's
Speaker 2: the sister. Mm hmm, ok, agreed, So let her be
Speaker 2: whatever she wants to be. You don't have to be
Speaker 2: involved with her anymore until she comes around and has
Speaker 2: a more sensible intention with you. And actually, and as
Speaker 2: sincere one, you know, anyone who gets offended by people
Speaker 2: who are direct are are They're not direct? No, it's
Speaker 2: just that's not a threat. That's actually a shortcut, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Being direct is a real shortcut
Speaker 2: in life. So anyone who's threatened by that is like, Okay,
Speaker 2: then you've got your own problems.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've always told myself that that I'm like,
Speaker 4: this is.
Speaker 5: Her own issue, it's not me. It's just a reflection
Speaker 5: of God. You know all that.
Speaker 4: But my problem is that, like I said in the letter,
Speaker 4: like when she's being cool, she is really cool, But
Speaker 4: then stuff like this happens, and I'm like, were you
Speaker 4: just being fake that whole time? So you're saying like
Speaker 4: if she's coming and being sincere, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 4: know how to know when it.
Speaker 2: But now you know, now you've had ten years of
Speaker 2: data to explain, so that even when she comes around
Speaker 2: and she is nice, you just stay five feet back.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's great, and just see how consistent she
Speaker 2: can be in that, you know, and then when she's
Speaker 2: earned your trust again and she's earned your respect, then
Speaker 2: I hope you guys do have a great relationship and
Speaker 2: your kids grow up together.
Speaker 1: But she's got the work to do, not you.
Speaker 2: Your husband is willing to come on here and sit
Speaker 2: here with you and be told that it's his problem now,
Speaker 2: So I mean that's a sign of a strong marriage.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, perfect, that's what I like to hear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good husband. Mm hmmm he is.
Speaker 3: Will you guys follow up with us when whenever the
Speaker 3: next sort of iteration of this comes to fruition.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, let us know how it goes, you guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a way easier way to say that. All right,
Speaker 1: I had a great day you guys.
Speaker 2: Bye bye, Do do do do do? Drum roll Catherine
Speaker 2: please Chelsea Handler Abroad.
Speaker 1: Abroad is my European tour. So I'm coming to.
Speaker 2: Obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the
Speaker 2: health out of this fucking country. And it's not as
Speaker 2: easy as you think. So I'm coming to Rekuvik, I'm
Speaker 2: coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming
Speaker 2: to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming
Speaker 2: to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London.
Speaker 1: Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna.
Speaker 2: I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 1: I'm coming abroad is a that sounds like fun. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2: I know I want to go see me abroad, and
Speaker 2: there all be, there all be Upcoming Vegas dates March
Speaker 2: twenty first, April eighteenth, July fifth, August thirtieth, November one
Speaker 2: and twenty ninth at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.
Speaker 5: If you'd like advice from Chelsea.
Speaker 3: Shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail
Speaker 3: dot com and be sure to include your phone number.
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
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