1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: I never told you production of I Heart Radio. So 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: before we get into this one, I did want to 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: put a trigger warning in here for brief description of 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: sexual assaults. And definitely maybe definitely maybe, uh definitely maybe 6 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: listen to this one before letting younger folks hear it. 7 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: And and this one is a bit of an emotional 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: roller coaster, and I really want to emphasize this because 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm describing it as a reverse mullet. It's it's party 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: in the front, but it's serious in the back. So uh, 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: just I want to put that in there because it's 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: really goofy at first, but it does um take on 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: a darker tone when we talk about sexual though, because 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: we're we're talking about sex words um in here and 15 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: writing about sex, which is something that's been on my 16 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: mind for a while. And I'll explain why in a second. 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: But all right, big question of the day, Samantha, have 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: you ever written a sex scene? No, we talked about 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: this a little earlier. I have never written a sex scene. 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: If I ever write anything, it alludes to it and 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: moves on. Uh so, would you happen to have a 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: favorite sex word or phrase. So I I just really 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: love the dumb stuff, so I don't really want to 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: be too crass in things, so I will say things 25 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: like I just want someone to lay on me. Yes, 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: and that's that's my commerentable. I can get off. I 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: just find someone to lay you on me. Just who 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: wants to lay on me? And that's my sex right. Yes, 29 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: I've heard you use that, and I you're the only 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: person I now. Yes, you're welcome. I think it was 31 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: from a Sex of the City episode where she was 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: just talking about she just needed physical contact. I'm like, yeah, 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: that's exactly kind of it. I just I just think that, like, 34 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: just lay on me. I mean I like it. It's 35 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: not that sexy. But you know what, Hey, you don't 36 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: always have to try to be sexy, and that's up 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: that's up for interpretation also right. Also, so, because you 38 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: have been talking about the fact that you have been 39 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: trying and trying to decipher how to write a sex scene, 40 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: what was appropriate, what's not right as well? So do 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: you have a specific go to phrase that you will 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: put into your writing? Uh? No, but um so I 43 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: have not read a lot of sex scenes, but I 44 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: this is so hilarious to me because it's almost, now 45 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: that I think about it, is reflective of my real 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: life dating. A lot of times I read yes fan 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: fiction and I love like caring relationships, and I'm just 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: innocently reading my non what I think is non romantic 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: fan fiction, and then they're having sex and I'm like, 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: oh my god, oh so this was romantic. Um, which 51 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: is fine. And usually I can just skip those parts 52 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: and just pretend, or maybe sometimes I don't even pretend. 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: I just don't particularly want to read it. But I 54 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: have noticed several phrases that people use when they are 55 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: writing those sex scenes. Um. But I just say that 56 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of times I don't 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: realize that I'm dating someone, at least in someone else's mind, 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: until oh, oh, that's what you thought. Um. And in 59 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: some of my extracurricular U and I accidentally typed sex 60 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: strict curricular activities when I first heard this, and I 61 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: was like, that is very appropriate. Um, I me and 62 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: some friends are writing it a really over the top 63 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: fantasy erotic short story for D and D for Dungeons 64 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: and Dragons. So just let that sind kid for a minute. Yeah, uh, 65 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, this is not the most appealing thing to 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: tell me about D and D as you are like 67 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: you would really like it, and I'm like, I don't 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: think I do. Well, I will say this is the 69 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: first and probably only time I will feature this, so 70 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't think you have to worry. It's it's a 71 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: joke about um. There's a running joke among a lot 72 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: of my co workers that my old fan fiction name 73 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: used to be August wind Um. So the character in 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: this campaign August wind wrote some very steamy fan fiction 75 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: about her as soon to be husband lead singer of 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: dreadnought e Cute. So there's a lot going on here, 77 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: so many things happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I try 78 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: to make it all personal and uh it makes something 79 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: people will enjoy. But anyway, as we've been writing this, 80 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: I was just struck by how many silly words and 81 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: euphemisms there are for sex. And I got wondering, is 82 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: there only silly because we have so many hang ups 83 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: about sex, or if they're just silly and we're chosen 84 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: because we have so many hang ups about sex because 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: some of them, I mean, definitely we can't put them 86 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: all in the same box, right, But some of them 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: are definitely just silly. They have to be. They have 88 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: to be. And talking about sex is really awkward, not always, 89 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: but a lot of the time, especially and perhaps more 90 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: prudish societies like the United States in particular areas. UM, 91 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: and that means writing about it is awkward also not always, 92 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: but a lot of the time, and throughout history, we've 93 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: come up with a lot of ways to be more 94 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: indirect about it, to kind of, I would guess, to 95 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: ease the blow or I don't know, make it sound 96 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: less vulgar, or because when you think about it is 97 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: kind of strange, what's going on right, what your bodies 98 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: are doing. But anyway, I do think a lot of 99 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: them are funny on purpose to lighten up this often 100 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: taboo topic, and it is sex is, again generalization, is 101 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: often a very vulnerable experience and so kind of making 102 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: it more palatable talking about and writing about it with humor. 103 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: And yes, a lot of the way we talked about 104 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: sex puts men in the active position, like words like 105 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: penetrate and women in the pastive position. UM. We talked 106 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: about that a little bit in our interview with Amanda 107 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: about words Let, her book words Let, and she has 108 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: a fantastic chapter, by the way, on sex words and 109 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: all the different words we have for the vagina and 110 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: penis um. So if you haven't checked that out, go 111 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: check it out. But now I have a list of 112 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: sex words, and I thought, Samantha, you could do be 113 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: the honor of reading them. So I actually when she 114 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: was writing, when we were talking about doing those and 115 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: writing it, I didn't realize what was happening, and so 116 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't quite prepared, and I'm like, wait, what are 117 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: you doing, what's happening? What are we talking about? And 118 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: She's like, oh, I'm gonna make you say all of 119 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: these things because it's not necessarily that I am embarrassed 120 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: by them, but it's just so over the top that 121 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: is just like, oh my god, I roll like when 122 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: it's so overplayed, just like anything erotic and erotic cut 123 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: to me is like, really tell it what it is. 124 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, so I will read this off, but I 125 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: will tell you as I'm looking at this. The one 126 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: thing from Ten Things I Hate About You, which the 127 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: teacher or the principle is writing her romance novel, she 128 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: stuck on the phrase undulating remember, oh yeah, bulging bulging member, 129 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: and then of course Julia stals walks off with quick 130 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: bring member, so all of it that not just like 131 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: the level that of it all. So this is so 132 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: fire section is dedicated to penis, the penis, This is this, 133 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: this is so of course, remember as I said, boner cock, 134 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: dick balls, manhood and shaft, which I've seen scheft in 135 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: so many romance novels when I was a teenager sneaking 136 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: in looking at people's robenas novels, shaft and manhood. I 137 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: just never really, why can't they just call it a penis? 138 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: I don't understand. Um, then the vagina was is lacking 139 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: by the way is volva and vagina. I've also heard cave. 140 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: Oh h. I mean, there are definitely a lot more, 141 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: but I don't see them come up in are at 142 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: least in the way people write about sex. Like, there 143 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: are definitely way more names for the vagina, but I 144 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: feel like they don't come up. It's usually really vague, right, 145 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: It's always vague. They don't really say vagina. They will 146 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: say yeah, like I've heard it called slit and that 147 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: makes me so angry. Y'all. Sorry, I really hope children 148 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: not listening to listen to this um and for sucks. 149 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and of course making love which actually that 150 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: one makes me quite more than anything else. I'm not 151 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: gonna lie afternoon to light all. That's such a nineteen 152 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: sixties seventies type of reference. Diddling, diddling, deflowering, motor boating, 153 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: which think that's the same context. But yes, tea bagging, 154 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: which I've actually hearded more reference to men doing that 155 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: to other men as being funny. So that's the whole 156 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: thing too. By the way, shagging that's a good one. Humping, 157 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: bang bait or bang in bed to bed someone, and 158 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: to lay with that's very biblical lay with in the 159 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: biblical sense. A bonus historical ones. Mate the beast with 160 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: two backs. That's gross, Thank you very much for that one. 161 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: Make feet for children's socks, that one. That's really gross too, 162 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: the service of venus. Play nugga nug what lubberoit labor leather? 163 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: How have your crown? Have your corn ground? Okay? Play 164 00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: itchy buttocks? What make whoopee? And horizonal refreshment? Thanks okay, 165 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: thanks to the Bustle I guess for the list. Check 166 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: it out for more and historical explanations on the Bustle site. 167 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: They have a whole article on it, which is hilarious. Yes, ridiculous. Um, 168 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: I kind of want to say, plate itch buttocks. I'm 169 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: gonna say that to someone I don't know. Oh, God, 170 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: tell me how it goes. I'm gonna get turned in 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: from sexual harassment. Will they know that's just no is 172 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: dirty and just give you that what'd happen? I guess 173 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: I guess we didn't talk about buttocks either, because that 174 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: is something I struggle with when I am writing sex 175 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: scenesest doesn't happen off in but because as sounds so 176 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: strange and buttocks sounds way too clinical, but sounds goofy 177 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: I've heard. I'm just being like, it's so weird behind 178 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: behind there behind Yeah, sound a really good word. Dunka dunks. Oh, 179 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: that will definitely add a layer of serious And let 180 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: me let me seeze those coductus. That's not that's not 181 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna get turned in ourselves. It's gonna think everything's remote, 182 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: No one's leaving their home, so all good, y'all. The 183 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: listeners are gonna write and I feel like I feel 184 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: harassed because it's too much, and then the assorted can 185 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: read that one. I guess so because this is already 186 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: making me blush, and I'm not a blusher. Aching, moist ample, grind, 187 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: the rock rock, which, by the way, that's kind of 188 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: the whole like member member thing, thrust, tantalized, tease, stroke, 189 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: subdues needed her knee. That just sounds painful, tug, cup, 190 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: yank around, rabbish pleasure. You're turning so red right now, 191 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: y'all that she used to I'm not the one turning red. 192 00:11:54,160 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: She's she wrote this, and she's turning red. Um ravish pleasure, blowing, climax, swelling, 193 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: moan gyrate. It looks like you're about to try to 194 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: plug your ears, by the way, grind group, a fondle, probing, 195 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: pucker release, intimate, intoxicating, hard, rub, explore seed ride tight 196 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: which I hate that one, throb, suck, and a million more. 197 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I feel someone's gonna call hr on me. 198 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: This is you. You set me up. It was set 199 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: me up. Oh it's you are so red right now? There, 200 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: I am. So. I found a list of I think 201 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: it was a thousand words to help you write a 202 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: sex scene. So I just included, um, some of the 203 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: more common ones, and I picked a lot of them 204 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: because if you're like me, you are both blushing and laughing. Um. 205 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: But if you think about it, most of these words 206 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: are innocuous, Like you can use them in other instances 207 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: outside of sex. It's just in the context of the 208 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: sexual context that's when they become funny. And that's the 209 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: point I'm trying to make, is like, some of these 210 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: words are outright silly, but some of them, it's clear. 211 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: We just are kind of uncomfortable talking about sex and 212 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: writing about sex and writing about sex and talking about it. 213 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: And then your face is bright red, is very very red, Okay, 214 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: and a quick switch, a quick switch. So um, this 215 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: is something that's been on my mind for a while. 216 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: This is where the dark part of the episode comes in. 217 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: So if you don't want to hear it, you can 218 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: click away, you can leave on that happy note, and 219 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: you'll be totally good, funny saying that to us. Yes, yes, 220 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: funny words or phrases you particularly like. Um. So, I've 221 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: been curious about writing about rape because on a darker note, yeah, 222 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: someone who has been sexually assaulted. I do often write 223 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: about it, um, both fictionally and as sometimes but much 224 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: more rarely non fiction, as a way to work through 225 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: all the stuff I'm trying to work through, and it's 226 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: been hugely therapeutic, but also the source of a lot, 227 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: a lot of shame, and honestly, me telling you this 228 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: is huge because it's something I've been so ashamed of 229 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: for so long. The first time I told someone, I 230 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: stopped and stopped and stopped and stopped, and I felt 231 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: so vulnerable and scared, and I was thinking about why 232 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: would that be, and I the answer is, it's complicated. Um. 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: But when I was young, I had written this like 234 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: extremely clunky and i'm sure terribly bad romance and it 235 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: did have some it did have sex, but it had 236 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: some four play and one of my abusers found it 237 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: and he read it aloud in front of people, and 238 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: I was so so embarrassed. And later he would use 239 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: it as proof that I wanted to have sex, and 240 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: that really really messed with my head. Um, And that's 241 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: why I burned. Everyone's like, why did you burn everything 242 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: you wrote in high school? That's why I don't want 243 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: anybody to find it. Um. And also when I was young, 244 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: but a lot older than that particular instance, I had 245 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: friends say that they refused to read anything with rape 246 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: in it, particularly in fan fiction, because they find it disgusting. 247 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: And now what they're talking about, or at least what 248 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: I interpret as what they meant, is a different issue, 249 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: and that's the romantization of rape, which is in fan 250 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: fiction is sometimes called dub con dubious consent or non 251 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: con non consent that a lot of young girls and 252 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: some women engage in their writing, and there's a lot 253 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: to impact there, and a lot of that is for 254 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: a different episode. I do think there's a level of 255 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: working through issues around sex in that too, around feeling 256 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: as though girls and women can't consent even if they 257 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: want to, of internalizing damaging messages in our media, around 258 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: what is romantic, what sex is, and all of this 259 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: is complex and dangerous when simplified. Um. But the blanket 260 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: statement is my friends made me feel like what I 261 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: was doing was discussing and wrong. Even though I've never 262 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: published any of this and I don't intend to, I 263 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: don't plan to share it. Um. There's only one that 264 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: I thought maybe, but uh, ben general nope. Uh. And 265 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: another thing. One time when I was at Dragon Con, 266 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: there was this panel of women authors they think, and 267 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: it was about how to write a compelling narrative, and 268 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: one of the female authors. I think she said, if 269 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: a book has a rape scene in it, she throws 270 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: it across the room because it's trash. And again I 271 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: get what she's saying. I think, UM, that if you're 272 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: writing about rape in this romanticized way usually by men, 273 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: but not always, not always um or even a graphic 274 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: way that doesn't serve the story, that that's not good 275 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: art um and damaging perhaps. And this goes back to 276 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: the whole idea of what we talked about and what 277 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: is and what should be. But it was another thing 278 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: that made me feel like I was really messed up 279 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: and discussing something that's wrong with me. Um. But I 280 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: think the source of a lot of my shame is 281 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: that writing is something I want to do and I enjoy. 282 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: So if I get some form of enjoyment out of 283 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: writing these dark, painful stories, then what does that say 284 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: about me? Um. Not that they're super graphic at all, 285 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: but writing it down, even just the fact that I 286 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: wrote it down, makes me feel really conflicted. And sometimes 287 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: I feel so much guilt at putting fictional characters through stuff. 288 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: But I'll just delete something, I'll just like on impulse 289 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: to lead it um or even read a story about 290 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: an alternate universe. For one version of me was never assaulted, 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: and her world collided with the version of me that 292 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: had and she had to decide whether or not to 293 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: practice empathy, and in the end she did it, Uh right. 294 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to be said about how 295 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: we view trauma. Again, this is that same narrative what 296 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about. It's not a one size fit all um, 297 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: and what you and I've talked to people about just 298 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: content in general, and you are doing this for your 299 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: own If it's released to the public, the public feel 300 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: like they own it, and so there's that whole like 301 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: pick and choose point of like who it has ownership 302 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: of it and who has the right to do however 303 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: and interpret however. But there's a whole lot of complications 304 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to art, when it comes to personal art, 305 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: and when it comes to in fame. I guess it's 306 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: the way to say it or notoriety at all. And 307 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: then on top of that just the mere guilt of 308 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: surviving whatever it may be. So I think there's a 309 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: lot of like narratives in this conversation because for me, 310 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: it's never been a question as much as I do right. 311 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: My writing has always had a small part of my stuff, 312 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: but I had a lot more to do with the 313 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: trauma that I've seen in other clients. But I still 314 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: step away from any sexual content because I am so 315 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: so uh over the top concerned about that for myself 316 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: and just what is sexual life and how it is perceived? 317 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's that that narrative of like, Okay, what 318 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: we've seen and how we see it is this b 319 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: D s N level of entertainment And and though b 320 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: D s M can be enjoyed and consenting adults, it's fantastic, 321 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: but to be used as a form of control for others. 322 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: There's a new Netflix show that it has been released 323 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: that it has like a b D s M theme 324 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: to it, I believe, and it kind of has that 325 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: same narrative, and people are very upset because they feel 326 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: like this gives permission and gives this false reality that 327 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: that's what women want. But so it is, it's this 328 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: romanticizing of force and rape and why in this culture, 329 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: why it's important to see who is telling that story 330 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: and why it's important for that story to be told, 331 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: and how it's a really complicated conversation it is and 332 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: I would love to come back and talk about it more. 333 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Um with with research and stuff. This is just something 334 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: that I've been dealing with a lot. And there is 335 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: a lot of conversation as well about um, writing about 336 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: rape professionally or even talking about it professionally, UM, the 337 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: argument of using victim versus survivor, the prevalence of using 338 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: passive voice, the ethics of writing about it at all, 339 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: and who controls the narrative. So there is a lot, 340 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: a lot we could talk about there, and I would 341 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: love to return to it. And um, yeah, thanks for 342 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: just thanks for letting me share. I feel like it's 343 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: a big thing. It is. It is, and I hope 344 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: that some other people who maybe feel guilt about writing 345 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: about their own experiences maybe it makes them feel less alone. Yeah, um, 346 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: so that was ours. You are not alone. No, you're nuts. 347 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: And and I appreciate, we appreciate so much that you 348 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: listen and that we can have these connections with you. 349 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: Um and uh, this was our reverse mole episode of 350 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: you enjoyed and if you do, if you do have 351 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: a sex word or phrase that you love to use, 352 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: or you think it's just really funny that we didn't 353 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: mention oh my gosh. Please send them in, please please please. 354 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at i heart 355 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: media dot com. You can also find us on Twitter 356 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've 357 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: Never Told You. Thanks as always to our super producers 358 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard and J. J. Pasway. Sorry guys, yes, sorry, Ann, 359 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening. Stepmon Never 360 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: Told You his production of I Heart Radio. For more 361 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 362 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.