1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hi, and welcome to our casual Friday. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. Uh. We 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: talked about a Shoka this week? Yes, and not once 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: did I mention Ashoka leaving the Jedi order. Now that 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned that, I'm I'm surprised that, um that you 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: there was no Star Wars talk. Nah. I Also, as 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: as we were working on this, I wondered, um, when 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: we published the episode, if Star Wars fans are going 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: to be um lured in and they'd be like, they 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: tricked me, It's not about a Showka from Star Wars 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: at all. Well, Star Wars Asoka is Asoka, Yeah, and 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: not Ashoka and spelled differently. Yeah. The spellings listeners will 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: not know this. Holly knows this. There are at least 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: three spellings of a Shoka in the outline, because it's 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: spelled in a bunch of different ways because it is 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: a name that you know, it's two thousand years old 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: from a different language, and so they're like different methods 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: of of transliterating it. And and the consensus is that 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the h is it's pronounced with this sound, but there 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: are lots of different spellings, and some of the spellings 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: could be more easily mistaken for the Star Wars character. Yes, 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: but also that is a she that is also true. Um. Yes, 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: the Star Wars that show is not man. It is 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: cool though, because there are similarities between the two. You 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: asked me while you were prepping this. I don't remember 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: how exactly you phrased it, like, is it known that, 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: George that the Star Wars characters are named after Indian 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: subcontinent historical figures? Yeah? I think I think the question 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: was something like, isn't intentional in the Star Wars you 31 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: know first that there are characters who seem to be 32 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: named for ancient Indian historical figures. Yes, there are characters 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: in the Star Wars universe named after lots of historical 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: figures or um words from other languages that have meaning. Yeah, 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: because someone else who has been on my list for 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: years at this point is Opera the first who was 37 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: another long ago historical figure on the Indian subcontinent. Um 38 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: whose name is spelled like Admiral achbar Uh not pronounced 39 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: the same way? Is it spelled the same? I don't 40 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:40,119 Speaker 1: think it is, but I'm not positive. This is our 41 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: our new podcast called how do We Spell Words? Are 42 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: they spelled the same as Star Wars characters. But the 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: thing is, I don't know how much you have watched 44 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: Clone Wars. I haven't watched much because Ahsoka is very 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: much driven by similar ideology as a Shoka. There's no 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: accident that those names are similar. She her whole driving 47 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: principle is always to care for others. Like in the 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: new episodes that we have just been released. We're not 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: through this season yet, we're eight episodes in. As we 50 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: record this, there are moments even when she says, when 51 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: someone needs help, you help them. That's all there is 52 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: to it. Uh, And that's kind of part of foot um. 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: I've I've spoiled things a little bit by commenting right 54 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: out of the gate it's a thing that happens to her, 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: her character. Though to be fair, that spoiler is years. 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's one of those fabulous and fascinating things. 57 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: I also made a strange pop culture um connection in 58 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: my head that will make no sense probably to anyone 59 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: but me, having nothing to do with Star Wars, but 60 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: instead Larry mcmurtury's lonesome Dove. Okay, have you read that 61 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: book now? So, as we were talking about all of 62 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: these carvings of the Edicts, it made me think there 63 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: is this item in Lonesome Dove. This whole idea is 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: that it's ranchers out in the west, uh, when that 65 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: was not a settled area, and they have set up 66 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: this horse stable and they have a sign, and it's 67 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: one of those things where the sign keeps getting additional 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: things painted on it. It's long, it's like I don't 69 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: know if it was a door or if it's his 70 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: door shaped, but it keeps getting additional script added to it, 71 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: including a freezing Latin and just all of these things 72 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: too that people that come up to it find themselves 73 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: puzzling over what the heck it's all supposed to be about. 74 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: And it made me think of that when we were 75 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: talking about the Edicts and people not knowing how to 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: read the and what they were. I cannot in good faith, 77 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: like I would be disingenuous if I tried to call 78 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: myself Buddhist. But the principles of Buddhism have been really 79 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: important in my life and have helped me in a 80 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: lot of ways. Um So, reading so much about this 81 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: leader who um like, seems to have definitely had a 82 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: past that would not conform to any kind of Buddhist 83 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: ideology of what is correct or good and then to 84 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: try to rectify that. I just found very comforting and 85 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: soothing in in these troubled times. Yeah, it's even if 86 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: we were not in these troubled times. Right, there's a 87 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: reason that this story has become important culturally to so 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: many people, and it's like a redemption story is soothing, 89 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 1: as you said, it's also aspirational. It makes people feel 90 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: like there's always hope that they can do better in 91 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: their own lives. Yeah. So, Uh, it is especially poignant 92 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: now as we struggle through a lot of a lot 93 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: of difficulty and people not always being their best. Um. 94 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: But I think that's why it's so it is so 95 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: persistent historically, is because that's like a basic everybody needs 96 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: to feel like things could get Yeah. So, our second 97 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: episode this week was on Catherine the Great, her specifically 98 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: opera librettist work. Yeah, so, I had seen passing reference 99 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: to her having written opera before we got into brainstorming 100 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: for this, uh this episode, but I did not know 101 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: any of the detail about it, having had more of 102 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: the detail about it. There are several of them that 103 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: I would like to just read all the way through. 104 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: Uh if I can find an English translation of them somewhere, um, 105 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: because some of them sound really delightful. I wish someone 106 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: would stage them fantastic. I it hurts my heart knowing 107 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: that she got slammed by so many people for promoting 108 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: the arts, because yeah, people really thought it was an 109 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: evidence of her frivolity. Yeah, but we need art. Yeah, 110 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a combination. If she she clearly 111 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: genuinely really loved it it, but then also she she 112 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: really thought that being a patron of the arts and 113 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: developing an artistic culture could change the way the world 114 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: viewed Russia and changed the way Russia viewed itself. It's 115 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: interesting because it's so parallel to Louis the fourteen so ideology. Absolutely, 116 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: I had that thought as I was working on it, 117 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: and you know Louis being like, well, I'm going to 118 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: make France the place of culture, France's apex culture of 119 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, um, it was. It did have a 120 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: lot of similarity to that one thing that came up 121 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: that I I had in the outline, and I just 122 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: as I was revising it to try to make it 123 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: into something cohesive. UM, I just could not find a 124 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: great place to put it. We talked about the these 125 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: four empresses um in the In the eighteenth century in Russia, 126 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: one of the things that her son Paul as Emperor 127 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: did was outlawed depictions of any of the monarchs in 128 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: opera or other theater. And part of that was sort 129 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: of still to to protect his own legacy. It was 130 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: like if somebody wrote a really satirical opera that satirized 131 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: Catherine the Great and raised a bunch of questions about 132 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: the parentage of her children, like that was going to 133 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: call to question whether he was supposed to be on 134 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: the throne. Then there were just general worries about whether 135 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: the kinds of scandalous rumors that were spread about her, 136 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: whether that was going to like fall back on him. 137 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: So um it was it was illegal to specifically um 138 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: depict the previous monarchs, and that wasn't always followed. But 139 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: one thing that did happen in the eighteenth century was 140 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: that in a lot of comic opera in Russia this 141 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: um serena stock character evolved who was not specifically a 142 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: past Impress of Russia. It was this you know, fictional 143 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: character of the sarina Um who was normal only a 144 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: foreigner who normally had some kind of magical or supernatural powers. 145 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: So a lot of times it was like a Serena 146 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: slash sorceress Um and at best was an anti hero 147 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: or might just be the outright villain of the work. 148 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: And a lot of people have traced that stock character 149 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: back to the reaction to these four Impresses Um, most 150 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: of whom had either been born outside Russia or educated 151 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: outside Russia, so there was this whole idea that they 152 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: were a foreign influence. And I thought that was a 153 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: really interesting through line between the eighteenth century empresses of 154 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: Russia and the trends that developed in comic opera. Yeah, 155 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: it is such a pity to have Um to know 156 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: that her son erased so much of her legacy. Yeah. 157 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: He he really did, just to come in and be like, 158 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna undo all this stuff that my mother did. 159 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: Their relationship wasn't great. Um, like the Empress Elizabeth had 160 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: mostly raised him. He he did not really trust his mother. 161 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: There was some some indication that she may be planned 162 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: to put someone else on the throne instead of him. 163 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: It just it he. He seems to have done a 164 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: lot of intentional work to try to take her legacy 165 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: apart as much as possible. Ah the intrigues. Yeah yeah, 166 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: uh that seems like an okay stopping point for this Friday. Um, 167 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: I hope folks are going to have as much as 168 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: possible a RESTful and relaxing weekend starting uh May. You 169 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: can watch The Great on Hulu, which was the sponsor 170 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: for the second episode this week. I'm excited for that 171 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: show because legitimately, outside of any sponsorship, it looks very fun. Oh, 172 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: it looks like a lot of fun. Uh. We we 173 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: had already agreed to do it before seeing the trailer, 174 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: which in any context makes me a little nervous because 175 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, TV shows and movies can go all kinds 176 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: of directions. And as soon as I saw the trailer, 177 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: I was like, this was like fun. Yeah, I'm on 178 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: board with this. It looks fun, and I just liked 179 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: the idea of something that you can just sit back 180 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: and laugh at, yes, while we are living through crazy 181 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: stressful times. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a 182 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 183 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,239 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 184 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.