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Speaker 1: Chris Mannox. As always, you can listen to the show
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Speaker 1: All Right, there is a debate raging right now on television,
Speaker 1: on podcasts, on social media about the MVP voting in
Speaker 1: the NBA, specifically as we come down to the final
Speaker 1: month of the regular season, the voting for this year's
Speaker 1: MVP where there are probably three, maybe four top candidates
Speaker 1: for that award, and in general, I feel like there
Speaker 1: has been some attacks on the voting and the voters
Speaker 1: over the last couple of months about the process. Some
Speaker 1: of them can be dismissed rather easily. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't want to get too deep into what Kendrick Perkins
Speaker 1: said on ESPN about race and voting. Because of race,
Speaker 1: his take was pretty quickly dismissed after, you know, when
Speaker 1: he pulled his stat out of his ass about eighty
Speaker 1: percent of NBA voters are white, and ESPNA to apologize
Speaker 1: on air because of that. I don't look at that
Speaker 1: take as being anything that I want to jump into.
Speaker 1: But Nick Wright, who was the host of First Thing
Speaker 1: First on Fox Sports one, the What's Right podcast, he
Speaker 1: has been making some points that have bothered me. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: real quick, before we get to Hi, Chris, thanks for
Speaker 1: having me on. Before we get to the points I've
Speaker 1: made that have bothered you. Can we spend two minutes
Speaker 1: on the Kendrick stuff for a moment? Okay, yeah, okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I know you're talking a little bit about this on
Speaker 1: Colins Show, but let's yeah. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the NBA world, fans and media
Speaker 1: mostly fans, but throw media as well, would have been
Speaker 1: quicker to recognize that Alex Caruso is an awesome player
Speaker 1: if he wasn't a prematurely balding white guy, because I do.
Speaker 1: Do you think that sometimes white players get reflexively dismissed
Speaker 1: at times, not because people are out and out racists,
Speaker 1: but because of preconceived notions or whatever, and that the
Speaker 1: average white player gets treated like they're a below average
Speaker 1: player until proven otherwise. Do you think that it wasn't No, well,
Speaker 1: you're assuming kind of a fact, not in evidence. I
Speaker 1: don't think Alex Russo is an awesome player. I think
Speaker 1: Alex Kaso is a useful player who can defend a
Speaker 1: couple of positions and is a valuable player on a
Speaker 1: championship team. But I don't think anything I has to
Speaker 1: do with I think of Alex Caruso in kind of
Speaker 1: the same ways I thought about Malik Monk last year
Speaker 1: with the George kind of the same ways that I
Speaker 1: think of Malik Beasley right now with the Lakers. Sure,
Speaker 1: maybe awesome was the wrong way to put it. The
Speaker 1: point that I was trying to lead to is, while
Speaker 1: I understand JJ got very upset because he didn't understand
Speaker 1: the difference between saying race might be playing a factor
Speaker 1: and calling people racists, I do think I believe that
Speaker 1: our evaluation of basketball players at times cuts both directions
Speaker 1: against non black players, which is I think the app
Speaker 1: the typical white player gets downgraded a bit in the
Speaker 1: view of the average fan, and I think that the great,
Speaker 1: undeniably awesome white player sometimes gets a few extra bonus points.
Speaker 1: I think we have a long history can document that,
Speaker 1: and I do think that is not calling anyone or racist,
Speaker 1: and so in just in defense of Kendrick, I think
Speaker 1: that that it is his point that once we have
Speaker 1: a guy that is undeniably great, if they're white, that
Speaker 1: sometimes they get a few extra percentage points credit. I
Speaker 1: think we have a long history of that, and I
Speaker 1: think Nash benefited from it, and I think maybe yokiches.
Speaker 1: But if we remove race entirely from it. We can
Speaker 1: still have this discussion, but I didn't want to just
Speaker 1: dismiss I thought Kendrick got accused of calling people racist
Speaker 1: when he was not calling people racist, And why was
Speaker 1: it if there was an implication. Look, you can't come
Speaker 1: out and say inaccurately that eighty percent of the voters
Speaker 1: are whites and not at least plant the seed that
Speaker 1: race is involved in the discussion, of course, but there's
Speaker 1: a difference between the analogy I used on my podcast
Speaker 1: today is and I do my podcast with my son
Speaker 1: who is black. If someone sees us together and says,
Speaker 1: I saw you guys doing the podcast, I had no
Speaker 1: idea that you're dad. Race is a huge reason why
Speaker 1: they didn't think I'm his dad, But that that is
Speaker 1: not at all a racist thing to assume. Do you
Speaker 1: follow me? Sometimes racist a factor without the people being racists.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I know. That's not why you brought
Speaker 1: me on. You brought me on because of the things
Speaker 1: I've said that are incredibly, unimpeachably accurate, and you don't
Speaker 1: know what to do with them. Here's my biggest problem.
Speaker 1: And we can get into the minutia of what you
Speaker 1: said and your points specifically, I know that you prepare
Speaker 1: fastidiously for your show. You are extremely prepared every morning,
Speaker 1: now every afternoon, for every podcast that you do. What
Speaker 1: you've been doing over the last month, and I first
Speaker 1: heard it when you filled in for Colin on The Herd,
Speaker 1: and I heard you talking about it a little bit
Speaker 1: with Colin earlier this week. What you've been doing is
Speaker 1: you have been implying in some ways even calling the
Speaker 1: people that vote for MVP lazy. And you have been
Speaker 1: implying that the people that vote for MVP are not
Speaker 1: doing the kind of diligence they need to do a
Speaker 1: vote like this. And look, I have been a voter
Speaker 1: for the better part of a decade. And look, you
Speaker 1: do a lot of reporting on your show, like you
Speaker 1: will make phone calls to people to try to bring
Speaker 1: some sourcing onto the show. This has been a position
Speaker 1: that you've taken for several weeks now. You've talked about
Speaker 1: this topic. This has been a pressing topic on television.
Speaker 1: You have taken this position. And maybe you can tell me,
Speaker 1: but I don't know that you've reached out to one
Speaker 1: actual voter to discuss the process. You haven't reached out
Speaker 1: to me, I could tell you my process. In fact,
Speaker 1: I'm real quick. I'm going to tell you my process
Speaker 1: because when the end of the season comes around last week,
Speaker 1: last two weeks, putting aside the build up to it,
Speaker 1: right Like, so, I go to dozens of games every
Speaker 1: single year. I watch hundreds of games every single year.
Speaker 1: I don't watch every Nicola Yokich game in the same
Speaker 1: way I don't watch every Joel mb game. You can't
Speaker 1: do it. What I also do, though, is I've got
Speaker 1: a whole slew of NBA people that I talk to, converse, text,
Speaker 1: whatever on a regular basis, and I will send message
Speaker 1: to them and I will say, simply, who would you
Speaker 1: vote for MVP? It's not a poll. I don't vote.
Speaker 1: I don't take numbers and vote on the outcome. But
Speaker 1: I take note of what they say and how they
Speaker 1: say it and their argument, and I factor that into
Speaker 1: my decision to vote for MVP. So I did take offense,
Speaker 1: and I was insulted by the idea that you were
Speaker 1: putting to the people that watch you on TV, the
Speaker 1: people that follow you on social media, that voters kind
Speaker 1: of just get to the end of the season. Look
Speaker 1: at the raptor rankings and decide who knows to vote. Okay,
Speaker 1: that was the implication, whether whether you think it or not. Okay,
Speaker 1: So it wasn't just the raptor rankings to be fair,
Speaker 1: but the I don't think people are. I didn't call
Speaker 1: the current voters lazy. I never said it. I called
Speaker 1: him arrogant, and that I stand the cousin of it.
Speaker 1: That that's kind of a cousin. No, No, I didn't
Speaker 1: mean those are I'm I don't know. No one has
Speaker 1: ever called me lazy about anything. Everyone has always called
Speaker 1: me arrogant. So I don't know if they're how related
Speaker 1: they actually are. So you, I am not doubting how
Speaker 1: much people watch or any of them. I am questioning
Speaker 1: whether or not the current crop of voters believe all
Speaker 1: that they have it right and every other era generation
Speaker 1: of voters have had it wrong. Because in order for
Speaker 1: this guy to win last year, they had to say Nope,
Speaker 1: winning not as important as everyone else has always said
Speaker 1: it is. And this year they have to say nope,
Speaker 1: everything is siloed. It is one year in time, snapshot.
Speaker 1: No history matters, because we have seen we have seen
Speaker 1: so many great players win back to back and then
Speaker 1: be essentially deemed ineligible the third year, and this current
Speaker 1: group of voters is saying they were wrong. That the
Speaker 1: voters who did that, some of whom are the same
Speaker 1: voters that did it to Jannis three years ago. We
Speaker 1: have right, they have it wrong. I find that galling.
Speaker 1: And I would also say this, the current group of voters,
Speaker 1: do you when you're calling making these phone calls when
Speaker 1: you're talking, In fact, I will just ask you directly,
Speaker 1: is Nikola yokis the best player in the league. I'm
Speaker 1: not asking about MVP, I'm not I'm asking is he
Speaker 1: the best player in the league? No, okay, if we
Speaker 1: just go to back to back MVPs, so Wilt Russell
Speaker 1: best player, best player, Kareem Moses was at least arguable.
Speaker 1: Some would say no, but he was the best player
Speaker 1: then on the greatest team ever, H Bird Magic, Michael Duncan,
Speaker 1: not leaving anybody out. Nash set him aside Lebron, Lebron again,
Speaker 1: Steph Jannis, now Yoki. So that's twelve, now thirteen names,
Speaker 1: eleven of them. If you did a straw polesy, the
Speaker 1: best player in the league would have won it. Nash
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have won it. And now Yoki. So again
Speaker 1: you're last year, you guys jam you guys said we
Speaker 1: know better. You don't have to be the best player
Speaker 1: in the league. Okay, I want to jump in on
Speaker 1: that just for for context here, two years ago, I
Speaker 1: voted for Yokis for MVP, his first MVP. I thought
Speaker 1: it was better than Yannis that year, simple as that.
Speaker 1: That's not if Yannis was what coming off the two
Speaker 1: straight about better than thought others were better than honest too,
Speaker 1: that year, I thought yokich is primary competition in that
Speaker 1: seventy two game season was Embiid. I didn't vote for
Speaker 1: Embiid because Embiid played fifty one of those games, and
Speaker 1: games played matters even in a fifty seventy two games season.
Speaker 1: Fifty one was just too little, right, So the fall
Speaker 1: I said, if you remember that year I was advocating
Speaker 1: for Chris Paul, Yeah, there was. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think there was voter fatigue when it comes to I
Speaker 1: don't think there was a standard set when it comes
Speaker 1: to Yanni. I don't think Yes played to that level
Speaker 1: that year. Oh, I don't think he was on that
Speaker 1: same level. While I didn't vote, wouldn't have voted for Yannis.
Speaker 1: I think what was being held against Yannis was the
Speaker 1: playoff flame outs. Yeah, but I think you just guy,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you wouldn't You just said you wouldn't have voted
Speaker 1: against Yannis, So you were having the same mindset. Everybody
Speaker 1: else was not to vote for Yannis because he wasn't.
Speaker 1: But for me it was because of the playoffs. But
Speaker 1: I but just so you know, I would have voted
Speaker 1: Chris Paul because if if you're gonna, you can't. In
Speaker 1: my belief, and again all of the history of voting,
Speaker 1: belief was, first of all, you can't really win three
Speaker 1: in a row under almost any circumstances. But if you're
Speaker 1: going to, you better also be winning championships along the way.
Speaker 1: So Jannis, to me, went into that year de facto ineligible.
Speaker 1: I know people get mad at that, but I but
Speaker 1: also a lot of the people are now voting for Yokis.
Speaker 1: We heard the pod, We heard them talking about that
Speaker 1: with in regards Yannas. But go ahead, so I interrupt you.
Speaker 1: So that last year, so two years ago, I voted
Speaker 1: Yokis the seventy two game season. Last year I voted
Speaker 1: mb because mbad played six eight games. He was dominant
Speaker 1: on both ends of the floor, and as far as
Speaker 1: intangibles go, I gave him beat a lot of credit
Speaker 1: for navigating the Sixers through that car wreck that Ben
Speaker 1: Simmons drove God too, like, I thought he deserved something
Speaker 1: a plus because of that. But to go back to
Speaker 1: two years, the year before that, Yokich, sorry, even last year,
Speaker 1: last year when Yokis did win, even though I didn't
Speaker 1: vote for him, he did win. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people gave him credit because he played outstanding and
Speaker 1: even though the Nuggets were not a top three team.
Speaker 1: Take a look Nick at the guys he was playing with.
Speaker 1: Did you do you see the guy hold On? In
Speaker 1: Game five of that series against Golden State, they got
Speaker 1: beat in the first round. Golden State eventually won the title,
Speaker 1: so they got beat by the best team that was
Speaker 1: out there. In Game five of that series, the last game,
Speaker 1: Yoki started the game with Jeff Green, Monty Morris, Aaron Gordon,
Speaker 1: and Will Barton. Who is winning at least at a
Speaker 1: playoff level against a champion, against the eventual champions. Who
Speaker 1: is winning? But that is where the logic gets circular,
Speaker 1: and that is what is so frustrating. Everyone says, you
Speaker 1: can't hold the first round loss against him because it
Speaker 1: came to the Warriors, which is why it behooves you
Speaker 1: to not play the Warriors in round one, which is
Speaker 1: why we don't give the MVPs to six seeds because
Speaker 1: they likely will get bounced in round one because they're
Speaker 1: playing an excellent team. And so I don't And I
Speaker 1: understand you didn't vote for him last year, and last year.
Speaker 1: I advocated last year for Luca because everyone's everyone's talking
Speaker 1: supporting cast. Luca was without his second best player, Tim
Speaker 1: Hardaway junior. Now Jaalen became a second best player and
Speaker 1: that team won more. And do I feel vindicated that
Speaker 1: the two guys I've had the last two years, one
Speaker 1: of them in Luca made the conference finals beating the
Speaker 1: one seed Suns, and the other one Chris Paul, swept
Speaker 1: Yokich's team out. Yeah, a little bit, but I but
Speaker 1: it is it is to me there there there, we
Speaker 1: keep moving the goal posts, and you said at the
Speaker 1: top of the show, there are three and then you
Speaker 1: said maybe four. I don't know who the fourth would be.
Speaker 1: To me, Yo kitchen beating Janis have separated themselves. I
Speaker 1: was giving I'm giving Luca a puncher's chance in the
Speaker 1: final twenty games. Okay, that's fair enough. They'd have to
Speaker 1: go like twelve and three or something to get the
Speaker 1: record up there, because his numbers are unbelievable, and Luca
Speaker 1: was my preseason pick. But it's they haven't one enough.
Speaker 1: But what was so frustrating me? And you asked me
Speaker 1: something earlier that I'm not trying to skirt like, did
Speaker 1: I call a lot of voters? I did not. I
Speaker 1: was reacting directly to Bond Timps's column and the fact
Speaker 1: that it was not close. And that is what to
Speaker 1: me is where whether it's what Perkins brought up, the
Speaker 1: history stuff I've brought up to me, everything should be
Speaker 1: looked at if in a year where Imbed is averaging
Speaker 1: more points than anyone has averaged in forty years not
Speaker 1: named Jordan, Kobe or Harden, when Jannis has the best
Speaker 1: record of all of them, right, and when both of
Speaker 1: those guys are demonstrably better on one end of the court,
Speaker 1: to say it's a runaway, to say it's a route
Speaker 1: to me to get back to your original point, does
Speaker 1: make one thing that the advanced numbers, which are not
Speaker 1: a perfect science are having a wildly disproportionate impact on
Speaker 1: this discussion. I don't think that's a hot take. I
Speaker 1: think it's not a hot take. But one thing I
Speaker 1: think that has to be worked into this conversation that
Speaker 1: we're having on March ninth is that, you know, Tim
Speaker 1: Bontemps asks voters, you know for their top five. I
Speaker 1: think it's January, February, late January, probably I have to
Speaker 1: go back and look at my text messages when he
Speaker 1: actually asked me for my top five. When he asked,
Speaker 1: everybody takes a while to compile them all that that
Speaker 1: was before the fifteen game winning streak by the Bucks.
Speaker 1: That was before they jumped into the top spot in
Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference. When I started talking about it, it's
Speaker 1: when it's when I made you mad. So yeah, but
Speaker 1: this was all before. But this was before the Bucks
Speaker 1: were on a tear when we voted. This was before
Speaker 1: the Bucks went crazy and got the top spot in
Speaker 1: the conference. I guarantee you if there was a new
Speaker 1: straw pull taken right now, dead heat at best, a
Speaker 1: dead heat between Janie and yokis right now for the top. Well,
Speaker 1: if that's I'm gonna check real quick. If that's true,
Speaker 1: then you can make a lot of money, or you
Speaker 1: can't because you vote on it, so you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to gamble on it. But let me just check the
Speaker 1: latest MVP odds. And I'm not acting like Vegas is unfallible, infallible,
Speaker 1: but I do believe that that Yokis is still he's
Speaker 1: minus two sixty and embed and Janis are four to
Speaker 1: one or seven to one at the one that I'm
Speaker 1: looking at. Don't quote me on it. Maybe that's changed
Speaker 1: to be in the last you know, in the last
Speaker 1: day or so it so the oddsmakers say he's overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and so again maybe it would be a dead heat.
Speaker 1: But can I ask Can I ask you a question
Speaker 1: as a voter, because I'm really written not by you,
Speaker 1: I'm really sick of being lectured on it. This is
Speaker 1: a regular season award and it's about this season and
Speaker 1: this season only, because again I'm just basing on how
Speaker 1: we've done voting in the past, and in the past
Speaker 1: it does say Everyone saying it's just a regular season
Speaker 1: award and it's about this season this season only implies
Speaker 1: that every single person starts the year in the exact
Speaker 1: same spot in the MVP race. And I don't believe
Speaker 1: history tells us that's true. I think that this year,
Speaker 1: in a weird way, I think Imbid probably started ten
Speaker 1: bases ahead of the pack because it's like, man, this
Speaker 1: guy's finished second and back to back years he's closed, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that Jannis finished well ahead of the
Speaker 1: pack when it's like, dude, since he last one in
Speaker 1: MVP did win a finals with a fifty piece and
Speaker 1: he hasn't won it since. And you know, so there's
Speaker 1: different things. Right. Let's say Yokits wins this year, and
Speaker 1: let's also say the Nuggets they're definitely gonna be the
Speaker 1: one seed they get worked in round one. Okay? Should
Speaker 1: that have any were sent impact on his ability to
Speaker 1: win a fourth straight next year? No? Okay? Okay, well
Speaker 1: then then we we can't agree. If you truly do
Speaker 1: you're saying no, it shouldn't. Would it would it? Probably?
Speaker 1: If if your scenario plays out, it probably would, But
Speaker 1: you don't think probably would. I don't think it should.
Speaker 1: I think we are told to vote on this award
Speaker 1: as a regular season award. We're told that it's it's
Speaker 1: it's how we're supposed to vote. But I thought there
Speaker 1: was no there was no I thought there was no
Speaker 1: definition of valuable. There's not a definite no. But it's
Speaker 1: a it is build as a regular season award. Well,
Speaker 1: but that's just because hold on a second, that's just
Speaker 1: because the voting. You guys submit your ballots before the playoffs, right.
Speaker 1: I understand that I can't assume something's gonna happen, like
Speaker 1: I didn't know two years ago that Jannie was gonna
Speaker 1: barrel through the Eastern content. I'm not saying no, of course,
Speaker 1: and I'm not advocating that the league MVP should be
Speaker 1: the guy who plays the best in the playoffs. Now,
Speaker 1: if they want to have a playoff MVP award, I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of a fun idea. Not necessarily, it's
Speaker 1: a little different than finals MVP. Like as a four instance,
Speaker 1: like in twenty eighteen, Lebron's last year with the Cavs,
Speaker 1: he could have been playoff MVP, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: even he wouldn't have been finals MVP. Separate thing. What
Speaker 1: I'm what I'm saying is that if and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this is Yoki because and this is what is
Speaker 1: frustrating for me is I and I've done some of
Speaker 1: this to myself, and some of it has been to
Speaker 1: me disingenuous, other media members tarring me, but fair enough,
Speaker 1: I have been painted as if I think the guy stinks,
Speaker 1: like I think he's an average player. I think he
Speaker 1: is undeniable at worst, one of the eight best players
Speaker 1: in the sport, probably one of the six best, and
Speaker 1: if you incorporate injury risk, he's skyrockets to one of
Speaker 1: the three best. You know what I mean, Like, that's
Speaker 1: where the and so that's where I that's where I
Speaker 1: have it. But I do think there has been because
Speaker 1: it's not like his numbers, the old school numbers are
Speaker 1: off the charts in any way except for assists for
Speaker 1: his position, right, it's the in a league where we're
Speaker 1: seeing more guys score thirty help, We've had two guys
Speaker 1: score seventy this year. He's averaging in the mid twenties
Speaker 1: per game. His rebounds are great, but Jannison Embiid are
Speaker 1: right there with him, or if not ahead. The assists
Speaker 1: and yes, the efficiency is eye popping. It's like DeAndre
Speaker 1: Jordan field goal percentages to fight not just dunking the ball,
Speaker 1: which has intense value, but it also if you talk
Speaker 1: to which I know you do. Guys, smart guys that
Speaker 1: run teams, they will tell you some of the publicly
Speaker 1: available advanced numbers have a couple major flaws. One of
Speaker 1: them is they don't distinguish contested rebounds from uncontested rebounds,
Speaker 1: and that's a huge part of value because it ends
Speaker 1: the defensive possession. And the other one is it efficiency
Speaker 1: is wildly important while also being able to recognize are
Speaker 1: you the guy that gets the ball at the end
Speaker 1: of the shot clock to bail your team out, which
Speaker 1: doesn't really happen to Biggs right that? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean. That's more that needs to be separated there
Speaker 1: as well. And so when I brought up the advanced numbers,
Speaker 1: if folks want to make the advanced numbers case, I
Speaker 1: just want to know are they truly standing by the
Speaker 1: advanced number the advanced numbers that say for a career
Speaker 1: Yokich is a top three player? Ever, does anyone actually
Speaker 1: believe that if they don't think advanced numbers should should
Speaker 1: be part of the equation, it can be the equation.
Speaker 1: And my point is the only way to justify him
Speaker 1: winning last year was the advanced numbers. It's the only
Speaker 1: It's not the only way. It's again I didn't vote.
Speaker 1: I didn't vote for him. But how I think voters
Speaker 1: probably saw it was you had a guy that played
Speaker 1: the entire season without Jamal Murray, almost the entire season
Speaker 1: without Michael Porter Jr. Who had a collection of very
Speaker 1: average players around him, put up astonishing numbers and kept
Speaker 1: his team. I think, what were they the sixth seed?
Speaker 1: I think they looked at Yoki in the same way
Speaker 1: they looked at Russell Westbrookie years ago. I think that
Speaker 1: was the impetus to vote for Yokis this time around.
Speaker 1: Again I didn't do it, but I think that's why
Speaker 1: people voted for But when you say astonishing numbers, I
Speaker 1: am here to tell across the board, across the teen
Speaker 1: and eight is not astonishing? Is great? It's it's great. No, no,
Speaker 1: it's great. Maybe again this is now semantic astonishing to me.
Speaker 1: It's not like the from the pure counting stats Russ's
Speaker 1: triple level season, which again I wouldn't have voted for
Speaker 1: him that year, that was pretty astonishing numbers. He's like
Speaker 1: he averaged the first triple level he got he got
Speaker 1: credit to He got credit because the negative durant and
Speaker 1: he got the positive bounce from that. But I just it.
Speaker 1: Here's my here's my other part of it that maybe
Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me should not play a factor, and
Speaker 1: maybe this is why I'll never have a vote. I
Speaker 1: some of the folks who are adamant that no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: he is the best player in the league. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean. He is sure seem to be nervous
Speaker 1: for the Nuggets this postseason, and it's like, well, you
Speaker 1: have the best home court advantage in the entire sport
Speaker 1: because of the altitude. That's over forty years of data
Speaker 1: we have that the Denver teams have a unique home
Speaker 1: field advantage across sports. You have that. You have the
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray. I unerst him. People like, oh, he's never
Speaker 1: made an All Star team, Yes, but he has scored
Speaker 1: fifty in a postseason game. Jamal Murray is a legitimate
Speaker 1: number two. Aaron Gordon is a more than legitimate number three,
Speaker 1: and Michael Porter Jr. Is as good of a fourth
Speaker 1: option at fourth option as any team has in the league. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know, I guess the Suns when Durant's healthy,
Speaker 1: Eighton is the only other fourth option that would come close.
Speaker 1: He's not even really an option, like it's a different set.
Speaker 1: You have all of that. You have a Western conference
Speaker 1: that everyone agrees is the most wide open West we've
Speaker 1: seen it. But the reason everyone says it's wide open
Speaker 1: is because no one believes in the one seed with
Speaker 1: the three time MVP. That bothers me. That to me
Speaker 1: should be a hard stop moment of wait a minute,
Speaker 1: what guys, we are re And this is where the
Speaker 1: history of it, to me matters. It matters that the
Speaker 1: voters had the foresight after Nash won those back to
Speaker 1: back and then that third year had his best season
Speaker 1: that enough voters were like, no, no, we're not doing
Speaker 1: it again. Like do you like, do you think that
Speaker 1: was a mistake, because I think that was smart. I
Speaker 1: think it helped save this award that to me is
Speaker 1: the only award in professional sports that truly really has
Speaker 1: historical value in matters. The NFL MVP has some weird ones.
Speaker 1: A damn kicker want it Like the baseball you give
Speaker 1: out two of them and then pitchers get their own thing.
Speaker 1: This award is the most important award and it is
Speaker 1: a great artifact for history of It almost tells you
Speaker 1: more about the league than the list of champions does
Speaker 1: in almost in different ways, but those you get. If
Speaker 1: you give me the list of chant finals and the
Speaker 1: list of league MVPs, I can tell you ninety percent
Speaker 1: of NBA's history. I would say one thing though you
Speaker 1: you I think it was with when you're hosting Colin Show,
Speaker 1: you suggested and tell me to think I'm wrong that
Speaker 1: the diversity of the voting should change, not the not
Speaker 1: not racial diversity, but including more former players things like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you probably did see it, but
Speaker 1: when the Athletic went out and pulled a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of retired NBA players and asked who the best player
Speaker 1: in the NBA is, it was Lebron number one and
Speaker 1: Yokis number two. So a whole dozens, if not hundreds,
Speaker 1: a retired NBA players, guys that purportedly know the game,
Speaker 1: voted Nicole number two. So I was not but I
Speaker 1: was not advocating for more former or current players that
Speaker 1: have votes. I actually am advocating for the votes to
Speaker 1: be anonymous. Oh no, path can I can I make
Speaker 1: the argument for Yeah, I think that because everyone now knows,
Speaker 1: because everyone knows their vote is going to be public,
Speaker 1: there is a pressure towards hurting and group think. And
Speaker 1: I think that if it was with here are the
Speaker 1: hundred voters, but the ballot the way it wasn't up
Speaker 1: until recently, right where we knew who the voters were,
Speaker 1: but everyone, How does that fit the narrative of Look,
Speaker 1: nobody knows who votes in Tim Bontamp's poll. That's an
Speaker 1: anonymous poll, and it's it's right. Well, that's because I
Speaker 1: think those people tell me if I'm wrong, the vast
Speaker 1: majority of them are actual voters and they're not. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so okay, I thought it was just most, but all
Speaker 1: I think something you don't know till the end. Most
Speaker 1: people know they're going to vote, who have voted, but
Speaker 1: you don't know if you get MVP or not. It's
Speaker 1: probably ninety plus percent or actually voters. Sure, exactly. I
Speaker 1: think those people respect Tim and appreciate Tim and aren't
Speaker 1: going to tell him a name that if their vote
Speaker 1: was due that day, they wouldn't be submitting, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, so I think that. But my
Speaker 1: point is, I think when there is massive pressure from
Speaker 1: the alleged smart basketball media that I simply don't don't
Speaker 1: think is that smart? Some of it. I mean, a
Speaker 1: first cousin of this is I've had I had to
Speaker 1: listen for four years that you're a casual. If you
Speaker 1: don't see how great Rudy Gobert is, that you simply
Speaker 1: don't understand the sport. If you don't recognize how much
Speaker 1: more valuable he is than Donovan Mitchell, that you don't
Speaker 1: see that. No, no, no, no no. He actually unlocks
Speaker 1: things for them, and what he unlocks for them is
Speaker 1: early vacation and I and eventually people laid down their
Speaker 1: swords on that, but a lot of the same you know,
Speaker 1: I look at my stats that I've created, media swore
Speaker 1: that those of us that just from can we define it. No,
Speaker 1: But we've watched basketball our entire lives, and you know
Speaker 1: that if your seven foot two you cannot ever give
Speaker 1: the basketball to at when push comes to shove, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be fucked. And we were just told, Nope, you
Speaker 1: don't get it. And the point I was making about
Speaker 1: the anonymous part is I think there are a lot
Speaker 1: of people who don't have the stomach totally understandably to
Speaker 1: be criticized or ridiculed by the allegedly smart people. And
Speaker 1: because of that, when all of the allegedly smart people
Speaker 1: say this is the right answer. If you know your
Speaker 1: questionnaire is going to be public, you fill it out
Speaker 1: according I don't know. I don't know if I buy that.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about you and that I know, but
Speaker 1: I don't know if I buy that. For the media
Speaker 1: at large, it just it places a greater sense of
Speaker 1: importance on an MVP vote. It is a responsibility for
Speaker 1: somebody in this business. But you're not being handed the
Speaker 1: nuclear launch codes here. You're being asked to vote for MVP,
Speaker 1: and the backlash is Stevie one two six on Twitter
Speaker 1: that might be slapping you around like that. I don't buy.
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I think that transparency is incredibly important,
Speaker 1: otherwise you might get some agendas. Also, further, you've got
Speaker 1: people that vote for this in local markets that might
Speaker 1: be inclined to vote for their guy in their markets
Speaker 1: so they can tell their guy that they voted for him. No,
Speaker 1: that definitely is a concern here. But I do think
Speaker 1: that we know across life that at times anonymity leads
Speaker 1: to greater honesty than being like there are there are
Speaker 1: If we were to let me try to use an
Speaker 1: example without getting anyone in trouble. I'm not thinking of
Speaker 1: a good one. But there are questions that I could
Speaker 1: ask Chris Mannix and say, hey, I'm gonna you know,
Speaker 1: there's a reason people ask to go off the record,
Speaker 1: there's a reason people ask to go on background, and
Speaker 1: there's a reason sometimes you get what is the more
Speaker 1: socially acceptable response if your names on it, and you
Speaker 1: get the more honest response otherwise. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: ridiculous to say, you're right, it's not as important as
Speaker 1: these other things that you might have Some people to
Speaker 1: be like, Man, I am not given this fucking guy
Speaker 1: three of these in a row when I haven't seen
Speaker 1: him in the finals. Ever, I don't care what the
Speaker 1: numbers are, and I would be okay with that, because
Speaker 1: I think you've got to explain. You should, like, whether
Speaker 1: it's in a column or a podcast or on TV,
Speaker 1: you should be able to explain your vote. If you
Speaker 1: can't explain and justify your vote, you shouldn't be voting.
Speaker 1: To me, it's as simple as that one other thing.
Speaker 1: Look you, I don't even think it's subconsciously, but you
Speaker 1: do hold Yokich's playoff failures. The last couple of years
Speaker 1: against him as a great player. You hold that against him, Yes,
Speaker 1: I would just say that. I think you have to
Speaker 1: look at each one individually. I look at the one
Speaker 1: two years ago and they love story got thrown out
Speaker 1: of the final game that he did. Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: lost Jamal Murray right before the end of the regular
Speaker 1: season torn acl They beat Portland in the first round,
Speaker 1: and then they lose in the second. I don't look
Speaker 1: at that at Yokich is underachieving and the Nuggets underachieving
Speaker 1: that year. Last year, they get beat in the first round.
Speaker 1: Five games could have been better. But I just named
Speaker 1: you a list of guys that he played within that
Speaker 1: playoff series. I don't think he underachieved and that team
Speaker 1: underachieved at all last season. This year, we're in sync
Speaker 1: on this one. If they get beat by the Lakers,
Speaker 1: the Clippers, the thunder whoever winds up in that number
Speaker 1: eight seat after the play and dust is settled, and
Speaker 1: they get if they get beaten the second round, I
Speaker 1: hold it against Kola Yokis because this is the first time,
Speaker 1: the very first time in Yokich's NBA career, that I
Speaker 1: think he has championship caliber players around him and That's
Speaker 1: what it's about Lebron. He doesn't win unless he has
Speaker 1: great players around him. You look at what happened in
Speaker 1: the playoffs two years ago, Anthony Davis goes down against Phoenix,
Speaker 1: they lose that serious need great pieces around you to
Speaker 1: succeed and achieve greatness. You need yes, you need great
Speaker 1: you need great players around you to win a championship.
Speaker 1: It's why, Uh. I hope history remembers Dirk as fondly
Speaker 1: as I do, because he won a championship without another
Speaker 1: It won the whole thing without another great player, Dirk.
Speaker 1: I mean Yannas did it. No no, no no, no no,
Speaker 1: That's what I was about to mention him as well.
Speaker 1: But I mean up to that point in time, exactly right.
Speaker 1: You can make the finals as a one man show,
Speaker 1: usually get dusted, but we've seen it, uh, and I
Speaker 1: the part of my frustration around this has been what
Speaker 1: I have viewed as a double standard of we are
Speaker 1: giving Yokich the accoutreman of the best player in the league,
Speaker 1: and then if you hold him to the standard we
Speaker 1: have held every other best player in the league, you're
Speaker 1: it said, you're being unreasonable, and that's bullshit. That is bullshit.
Speaker 1: Because when Lebron won back to back MVPs and had
Speaker 1: already been to a finals before he was a champion
Speaker 1: and they lose in round two in seven six pardon
Speaker 1: me to the Celtics that is hung around his neck
Speaker 1: as he quit and all of it. You know why,
Speaker 1: because he's look the best player in the league. When
Speaker 1: Kevin durant Is seven years removed, eight years from winning
Speaker 1: an MVP and they lose in round one last year,
Speaker 1: it is called the biggest failure of his career. Win Yannis,
Speaker 1: the year he wins his second MVP loses in round
Speaker 1: two to Miami, he has called a playoff choke artist.
Speaker 1: Oh well, Nick, you can't compare Yokis to Lebron, Jannis
Speaker 1: and durant I fucking agree. But everyone else says he's
Speaker 1: better than him. He's winning the awards that say it.
Speaker 1: So it's a weird thing because you agree with me.
Speaker 1: I think that, well, yeah, you can't hold Nicola Yokis
Speaker 1: to the standard we held Lebron to or this thing.
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be held to that standard. Nick.
Speaker 1: Let's see six months and see this is where this
Speaker 1: is one of those we don't know because It hasn't
Speaker 1: sure yet, but I'm telling you I will. I know
Speaker 1: other voters will. If he gets smoked in the first
Speaker 1: or second round with that team and that talent around him,
Speaker 1: he will be hammered. Maybe not like Lebron. Lebron was different.
Speaker 1: Lebron Lebron's different, but like, yeah, he's the one guy
Speaker 1: Nick that you know, voters definitely punished him in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, not for anything he did. He was
Speaker 1: for for the decision and they said, Derrick Rose, he's
Speaker 1: your MVP. Great year, Derek Rose, but Lebron deserved the MVP.
Speaker 1: Lebron's not a different level. I think that Jannis, that
Speaker 1: Yokich will be treated just like Jannis if they flame
Speaker 1: out this year. Maybe you disagree, maybe you think it's
Speaker 1: gonna go. I don't know. I feel like he's already.
Speaker 1: I think the media it's weird because I mentioned him
Speaker 1: getting thrown out of their final playoff game right there.
Speaker 1: I don't I think most people have memory hold that
Speaker 1: that was your league MVP who didn't finish the season
Speaker 1: with this team because he got kicked out of the
Speaker 1: game because of a flagrant that was bad. And then
Speaker 1: and then the very next year when we rewarded him
Speaker 1: as a sixth seed at the end of the year
Speaker 1: with another league MVP. He he gave the Morris twin
Speaker 1: whip lashing into his season. And if you're telling me
Speaker 1: you remember what I'm talking about, right, I do. I
Speaker 1: also know Marcus Morris Marcus many players have said Marcus
Speaker 1: Morris or Markis Marris Mark Kief shouldn't have beforehand too. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I agree with that. But again, do you think any
Speaker 1: other multiple time MVP that would have gotten the lack
Speaker 1: of coverage or reaction. Now, maybe the enter is that's
Speaker 1: because we just don't talk about him. He's not polarizing,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I don't know, but I think there
Speaker 1: are a few things that are like, wait, what the
Speaker 1: guys you're you're I think, I think, I think you're
Speaker 1: kind of Lebron is the only one think we talk
Speaker 1: about it with, Like Yannis just did that stupid thing
Speaker 1: where he shot the ball at his own rim intentionally
Speaker 1: trying to miss. Nobody really cared, Nobody beat up on
Speaker 1: him for it. Nobody think do you think that was
Speaker 1: a shot at the MVP? Ah? That that's that's asking
Speaker 1: will be to dig into the psyche of Jannis. I
Speaker 1: think Jannis knew he was a rebound away. That's no,
Speaker 1: of course, I don't. I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: that he was thinking. I don't know that there was
Speaker 1: something about and that Jannis was following the stat padding
Speaker 1: conversation and was looking to pick up a triple double
Speaker 1: because of that. I don't know that that's all right.
Speaker 1: Last things I know I said, I said twenty minutes
Speaker 1: and but just one last thing quickly, Uh, just honest
Speaker 1: question here? How why isn't And it'd be so if
Speaker 1: it was Yokich, Luca and Steath as the three leading candidates,
Speaker 1: then to me, you would dismiss the defensive side of
Speaker 1: the ball almost entirely, right. You'd be like, none of
Speaker 1: them are helped really helping you defensively, So it's kind
Speaker 1: of who hurts you the least, right, And that would
Speaker 1: actually of those three be Yoki, because Yoki's not like
Speaker 1: some horrific kills you defender. Now, they end up against
Speaker 1: the Lakers and Lebron gives him the one five pick
Speaker 1: and roll treatment for forty possessions and night we'll see.
Speaker 1: But when it's Yokich embed in Jannis, why d is
Speaker 1: the defensive end of it not disqualifying for Yokis right now,
Speaker 1: I don't think it should be disqualifying. It should be
Speaker 1: considerably waited, heavily waited. And this is why it goes
Speaker 1: back to what I said about ten minutes ago. If
Speaker 1: you made that poll today, it would be different. We'll
Speaker 1: call Tim to do it, you know, Tims. I sent Tim.
Speaker 1: I sent Tim my list of fake ballots before I
Speaker 1: ever send him a first one. Cam Thomas at the
Speaker 1: top of my list. Every single time. Sam Houser regularly
Speaker 1: makes an appearance, so it takes By the way, are
Speaker 1: your Celtics gonna be okay? Yeah, that would be better
Speaker 1: than Anthony Davis will in a couple of years say that. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: I miss you, buddy. It's good to talk to you.
Speaker 1: You too, Nick Right, check them out. First things first,
Speaker 1: What's Right podcast? Always good to catch up man, See
Speaker 1: you a minute.