1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey you, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday, 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: the day of each week that we venture down into 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: the vault and retrieve an older episode of the show 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: for you. This one originally published on March twenty ninth, 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and it's part one of our series 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: called The Three Pupiled Eye. Yeah. I remember this one 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: being quite a lot of fun, and I think we 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: discussed this idea as it pops up in a various 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: cultures and traditions and sources. But I think we do 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: get a little bit into some Irish legend so it's 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: a good topic to revisit as we launch ourselves towards 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: Saint Patty's Day. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: And you know, we recently did a couple episodes that 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: related to Irish mythology, and as we were looking through 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: these various accounts of various heroes and monsters and tales 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: too often to ten and and so forth, I was 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: reminded again of a motif that I remember coming up briefly, 21 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: at least when we were looking at the hero cocolin, 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: and that is Irish heroes that are depicted as having 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: either multiple pupils or multiple irises within their eyes. That 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: is a strange detail, especially because I can picture multiple pupils, 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: I have a harder time picturing multiple irises. So, of course, 26 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: basic anatomical note, the pupil is the black dot in 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: the middle of your eye, and the iris is the 28 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: colored ring around that dot. So multiple pupils I'm seeing, Okay, 29 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: multiple thoughts, multiple irises. I don't know that that just 30 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: what Like, how would you tell where one iris began 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: or ended? Well, I guess you'd have to have like 32 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: multiple irises and pupils in that department. And as we'll 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: get into one of the things is that some of 34 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: these accounts will say pupils and other versions of that 35 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: same account will say irises. So you know, I'm not 36 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly how uh you know, the term 37 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: maybe gets confused over time or it's lost in translation. 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: So but it kind of adds to the mystery of 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: of not being exactly sure what we're talking about here 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: when these details come up, Well, so how did these 41 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: details go? Like, what's an example? Okay, so um, taking 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: for example, Kucolin since we've we've discussed him before. The 43 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: Irish hero, a warrior hero, a demigod possessed by the 44 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: ability to enter the warp spasm during battle. Lots of 45 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: wonderful tales and about this character, and he's he's prominently 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: featured in the early Irish epic The Cattle Raid of 47 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: Coolie or the Tane as it goes sometimes called. But 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: one of the other interesting facts about this hero is 49 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: that he's sometimes described as having seven irises, as translated 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: from the epic by Joseph Dunns. I believe in nineteen 51 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: fourteen translation quote seven jewels of the eyes brilliance was 52 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: either of his keenly eyes, seven toes to either of 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: his two feet, seven fingers to either of his two hands, 54 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: with the clutch of hawk's claw, with the grip of 55 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: Hedgehog's talent in every separate one of them. I love 56 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: how that's all majestic and fierce until you get to 57 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: the hedgehog. I don't know. Hedgehog's talent sounds pretty intense 58 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: to me. Even if I can't quite picture what that 59 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: would be. Maybe I don't have enough experience with hedgehogs. Though. 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: I also this struck me because I love stories where 61 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: beings have a strange, recurring, specific number of body features. 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: It reminds me of visions in the Bible, like particularly 63 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: the visions of the Dragon and the beast in the 64 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: Book of Revelation. And if you're not familiar, the Book 65 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: of Revelation is the last book in the Christian New Testament. 66 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: It is mostly describing a vision that the author, someone 67 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: named John says was given to him by Christ. And 68 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: it's a book where the number seven has great significance. 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: It's used in a number of ways throughout the apocalypse. 70 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: There are messages sent to seven church congregations there and 71 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: then within the vision, seven seals are opened, seven trumpets 72 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: are sounded, and so forth. But there are also these 73 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: wondrous beings, both great and terrible, with seven of something. 74 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: So for example, in chapter twelve, verse three, it says, 75 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: and there appeared another wonder in heaven, and behold a 76 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and 77 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: seven crowns upon his heads. And I always wondered if 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: that meant okay, so he's got seven heads and then 79 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: seven crowns on his heads. But does that mean seven 80 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: crowns per head or just one crown per head? I'm 81 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: not sure. One of the seven heads is wearing seven crowns, 82 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: staffing pop to each other. That heads a real dick. 83 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: They fight over the crowns. But then later also the 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: beast is said to have seven heads and ten horns 85 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: quote end upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his 86 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: heads the name of blasphemy. And so I like these 87 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: specific numbers. It's not just like, oh, this beast has 88 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: two heads. It's got seven heads. And of course, in 89 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Jewish and Christian traditions, seven is a very significant number. 90 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: It's a holy number and one that most of the 91 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: time seems to be associated with wholeness or completion or fulfillment. 92 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: You know, God rested on the seventh day in the 93 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: creation story, after creating Earth in six days, rested on 94 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: the seventh, So it's sort of like the finishing of 95 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: a good and wholesome cycle of something. Though I guess 96 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: in this case it's interesting because this is a sort 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: of unholy seven. It's the opposite of God, and there 98 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: are other beings in Jewish literature described with various specific 99 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: numbers of features. For example, there is a vision described 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: in the Book of Isaiah where the prophet sees the 101 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: Lord sitting upon a throne and he's surrounded by angels 102 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: called seraphim, which literally means the burning ones. And the 103 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: Seraphim are said to each have six wings, and there's 104 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: a reason given for this. In the vision, the wings 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: are each doing something, so Isaiah says that with two 106 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: of the wings he covered his face, with two of 107 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: them he covered his feet, and with the other two 108 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 1: he did fly. Though I wonder if the number six 109 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: is also showing a different significance in that these beings 110 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: are sort of the second highest beings in the heavenly 111 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: hierarchy without being on the level of God himself. So 112 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: seven is holy perfection and fulfillment. Six is one level 113 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: under that. Oh wow. So first of all, I love 114 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: how this actually is finding way to tie back to 115 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: our recent episodes on the days of the week, you know, 116 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: the seven day week, and yeah, all these thing about 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: examples like this where we're dealing with you know, literary 118 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: motifs and symbolism and you know, mythic beings. But we 119 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: take these non biological numbers and though they sort of 120 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: bleed through their imagined bodies, and and we instantly enter 121 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: this zone of of of just of of fantasy and 122 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: in myth um. You know, it's the it's the sort 123 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: of thing that I think, you know, today we would 124 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: we would classify this sort of thing is like you know, 125 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: visionary art or you know, some sort of psychedelic notion um. 126 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: But but clearly we've you know, we've been dreaming up 127 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: these these things throughout human history. Well yeah, yeah, and 128 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: you're right to note that seven is not a very 129 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: biological number. Yeah, I mean, usually in animals with bilateral symmetry, 130 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: there tend to be even numbers of things. There are 131 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: some interesting exceptions, but that's that's most most often the case. 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: We'll get to one exception within the human body later 133 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: on that I like. But yeah, so so I don't 134 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: know exactly why you'd get these myths later on of 135 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: like say, yeah, a hero who's got seven irises in 136 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: his eye or seven pupils in his eye. But I 137 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: would be surprised if it isn't if it isn't part 138 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: of a tradition, if it is an all downstream from 139 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: this ancient line of thinking that says, hey, you know, 140 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: this monster doesn't just have two heads, it has seven heads. 141 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: And not only does it have seven heads, the fact 142 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: that it has seven heads means something. This is like 143 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: the ultimate bad monster because there's seven of it. Seven 144 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: is kind of like a siren. It means whenever there's 145 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: seven or of something, it's it's incredibly meaningful. It's intensely significant. 146 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: And with with Cocullen's eye, it's it's really hard for 147 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: me to picture it, Like I guess I'd end up 148 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: picturing like this just sort of ring of pupils, and 149 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: then yeah, when I try and picture seven irises in there, 150 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't really come together for me. Here a couple 151 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: of other translations. M Thomas CANSELLA translation says seven hard 152 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: heroic jewels are set in the iris of Kucullan's eye 153 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: and then done also translating in another section of the work, 154 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: hero from a poem prophecy quote seven gems of champions, 155 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: brave deck the center of his orbs. Naked are the 156 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: spears he bears, and he hooks a red cloak round 157 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: And I've seen these, yeah, I've seen these described as 158 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: as pupils as irises, and there's a there's one version 159 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: that reads, quote, there were seven pupils in Kucullin's royal eye, 160 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: and two of these pupils were squinting. The pupils were squinting, Yes, 161 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, this this is another area where I haven't 162 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: found I haven't found much to really, you know, break 163 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: down what this means, and that that just makes it 164 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: more enticing, Like what what to imagine looking into this 165 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: this hero's eyes and then like, first of all, they're 166 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: like seven pupils in there, and then and then to 167 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: make things even weirder, to make that moment even weirder, 168 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: two of them are squinting. A two of the pupils 169 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: are squinting. But pupil, I mean, so pupils do, of 170 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: course contract. We'll talk about that as we go on. 171 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: That's one of their main anatomical functions. But I don't 172 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: think that's usually what people mean with the words squinting. 173 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: With squinting, I think of squeezing of like the muscles 174 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: around the orbital you know, your face. Yeah, though, as 175 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: we'll discuss, pupils do weird things. So maybe by the 176 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: time we roll through some examples from the animal world, 177 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: we'll have a better idea of what this could conceivably 178 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: look like. But cal Colin is not the only character 179 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: in an Irish tradition who has mysterious eyes. There's also 180 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: a character by the name of fedem Or. I think 181 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: the modern version of this is Fidelma, and this is 182 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: a she's a member of the two authored don and 183 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: she's a prophet, a poet. She's mentioned in the Ulstra cycle, 184 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: and I've also read that she some critics and historians 185 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: think that she may be connected to later toys of 186 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: the Banshee, which, again, the Banshee, one of its whole 187 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: things is that it is it haunts a place, It 188 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: whales in anticipation of death, so it is it is, 189 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: in its own way, a profit, though a profit of 190 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: one particular thing. She appears in the Tane as well, 191 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: and she's described as having three irises in each eye, 192 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: triple irises. And this gets really interesting because she's described 193 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: at length, and I'm just going to read a part 194 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: of it, translated by Dunne quote weaving lace was she 195 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: and in her right hand was a bordering rod of 196 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: silvered bronze with its seven strips of red gold at 197 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: the sides, A mini spotted green mantle around her, A bulging, 198 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: strong headed pin of gold in the mantle over her bosom, 199 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: A hooded tunic with red interweaving about her. A ruddy, 200 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: fair faced countenance. She had, narrow below and broad above. 201 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: She had a blue gray laughing eye. Each eye had 202 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: three pupils. Dark and black were her eyebrows, The soft 203 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: black lashes threw a shadow to the middle of her cheeks. 204 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: Red and thin were her lips. Shiny and pearly were 205 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: her teeth. Thou wouldst believe they were showers of white 206 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: pearls that had rained into her head. And I have 207 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: to say, I love how I mean, it's all beautiful, 208 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: but the three pupils in the eye just gets like 209 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: this brief description. But then the author is like, and 210 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: let me tell you about her teeth, right, Yeah, I 211 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: had the same reaction. So then again, I'm thinking about 212 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: the historical setting from which this story would have emerged, 213 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: and maybe at that time seeing somebody with really clean 214 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: teeth was even more rare than a eye with three pupils. 215 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: A true true. So so okay, so we already have 216 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: a couple of examples here cocullen and we have we 217 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: also have a Feedom here, and Feedom is very much 218 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: just see her, and she has eyes of prophecy, So 219 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: it's easy to see where one interpretation here is that 220 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: her eyes are unnatural because she has unnatural vision she 221 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: can see into the future. Makes sense, right sure, But 222 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: as as several different commentators have pointed out, this is 223 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: what this is. Another level where it got even more 224 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: interesting is that commentators have pointed out that, um, these 225 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: are also signs of beauty. So think to this passage 226 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: I just read, so uh, you know, yes, again, she 227 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: is a seer, but she's described as as being as 228 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: not being beautiful but possessed with weird eyes. Her triple 229 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: pupils or iris eyes are listed as part of her 230 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: beauty though you know, undeniably this connects to her attributed 231 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: powers as well. Right, So it's listed along other along 232 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: other things like having long, lustrous eyelashes and pearly teeth, 233 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: things that in a lot of other literature would be 234 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: just clear markers that are supposed to mean beauty. And 235 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: here it's also like and three people by that is 236 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: one of those things, right, we all know that thing? Yeah, yeah, 237 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: And this is this is I think something that makes 238 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: it so fascinating to read as a modern reader of 239 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: the text, because obviously, if you had, you know, a 240 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: modern work of fiction that was referring to a character 241 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: like this, everything would go in reverse, right, you would 242 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: have all that you would say, Oh, she was beautiful, 243 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: and she looked totally human, a beautiful human, except woe, 244 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: those eyes three pupils in each one. It was a 245 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: bit weird. So one of the sources that I was 246 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: looking at about this is Jacqueline the Evil Eye in 247 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: early Irish literature in Law two thousand and three, published 248 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: in Celtica twenty four. It provides a lot of insight 249 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: into the literary motif of the eye in Irish literature. 250 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: So she brings up, first of all, a different creature 251 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: with a unique eye, and that is the one eyed 252 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: giant Insoul Cache or ing Soul the Terrible, who is 253 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: described as this great giant something of a pirate I 254 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: think with possible like English origins of the time, so 255 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, into in this week get like the idea 256 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: that may if there is some sort of historical basis 257 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: for this figure, maybe he was just some sort of 258 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: a pirate rater from that region. But in the mythic 259 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: connotation he becomes this, this this great, big giant who 260 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: not only has just this single eye in his head, 261 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: he's not only a cyclops, but it is a solid 262 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: black eye. And that solid black eye has seven pupils 263 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: within it, though I've also read descriptions where he just 264 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: has three pupils. How would it have pupils if it's solid. 265 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: The pupil is the black part of the eye. So 266 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: that's thoroughly confusing. Yes, so he's known for the destruction 267 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: of Dadurga Hostel. There's a whole story about this. And 268 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: so the author here is discussing Ingsul's eye and she 269 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: connects it not only with Cocolin, but also with the 270 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: High King of Ireland, Cormac McCart who is also said 271 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: to have had seven pupils in each eye. So again 272 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: it's just driving home that this is a recurring motif. 273 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: It's not like a one time thing that you know, 274 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: it clearly meants something and was worth repeating in the Cannon. 275 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: But but she points out that you know, in the 276 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: cases of these two heroes quote this is explicitly qualified 277 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: as a sign of beauty. And furthermore, she says that 278 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: the squinting in Cucullin's pupils is also seen as a 279 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: doornament rather than disfigurement. And then she also comes back 280 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: to Fedelm, the female seer of the Tuatha, to Donna 281 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and says quote, there is no explanation offered of this characteristic, 282 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: the triple I with Fedelm. It could be a sign 283 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: of beauty, and it could be a sign of her 284 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: supernatural sight. The latter is more probable because the characteristic 285 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: is separated from the description of her looks by the 286 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: mention of the weaver's beam. The weaver's beam has been 287 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: interpreted as a supernatural tool for prophecy. The triple pupils 288 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: could therefore very well be a symbol of her claer 289 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: of glance. And yeah, so I'm not if I'm not 290 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: mistaken here the weaver's beam, this is part of a loom. 291 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: And so we're getting into the idea they'd like here this, 292 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: this piece of technology also had mystical connotations for divination. 293 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: All right? What about ing Sol though, the giant or 294 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: pirate who has a single eye which is entirely black 295 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: and also has either three or seven pupils in it, well, 296 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: she's She says that, Okay, if we're going to look 297 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: at these other examples and try and figure out Engsol, 298 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: we'll say, first of all, he's definitely not beautiful. This 299 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: is not a sign of his beauty. He's a rough 300 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: and horrible monster, she knows. She points out some of 301 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: the terms that are used to describe him. But his 302 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: sight is described as being sharp, he can make out 303 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: every detail of the hostile at a glance, and Boor 304 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: says that he also might connect to the legendary evil 305 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: eye of Balor, the king of the Fomorians, whose great eye, 306 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: when opened and when his great brow could be raised 307 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: up in some accounts, two warriors have to stand on 308 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: either side of him, put a woman wooden beam beneath 309 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: his big, saggy brow, and lift the brow up so 310 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: that the evil eye can see out an unleash destruction 311 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: on the battlefield. It could be connected to that Ballor, 312 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: by the way, is eventually killed by his grandson Lug 313 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: of the Tuatha de Dun, and there are multiple versions 314 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: of the Balor myth as well. Sometimes his destructive eye 315 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: is described, you know, more or less like the single 316 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: single eye of a cyclops and other times it's depicted 317 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: as more of a third eye in the center of 318 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: the head alongside two ordinary eyes. So there's just a 319 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: taste of the triple or sevenfold eye in Irish mythology. 320 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: And again I've even having you know, research to the 321 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: bed and laid it out in the in the outline here, 322 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: it's still just overwhelmingly mysterious and on inspiring to me. 323 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: And we're going to come back to some other traditions, 324 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: some other ancient writings that refer to mysterious eyes of 325 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: this nature. But at this point we're gonna we're gonna 326 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: shift into the scientific world and hopefully this will be 327 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: a fun case where the science and the myth will 328 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: sort of play off each other and each one will 329 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: make the other more fabulous. All right, well, since we're 330 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: talking about eyes, I think we do need to do 331 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: a quick overview of eyeball anatomy. So picture an eyeball, 332 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: rob Are you doing it? Can you can see that 333 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: eyeball in your mind's eye burning like the eye of Sauron. Okay, well, 334 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: that actually connects to something because the eye of Sauron, 335 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: you picture that, that's not just floating out in space, right, 336 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: it's sitting in a tower, that's right, And so of 337 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: course our eyeballs need some some structural scaffolding as well. 338 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: So the eyeball of humans it's within a bony socket 339 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: called the orbit, and the outer layer of the eyeball 340 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: itself is a tough white tissue made of collagen that's 341 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: called the sclera. This is the white part of the 342 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: eye that you can see. And then the pupil, of course, 343 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: is the black dot in the middle of the eye. 344 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: Covering the pupil on the outside is a clear layer 345 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: of cells known as the cornea, which both protects the eye. 346 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: It protects the iris and the pupil, and it also 347 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: helps to focus incoming light into the pupil. Actually, there 348 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: are two parts of your eyes that do focusing of 349 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: light rays. The cornea does the majority of it. I 350 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: think it does about two thirds of the focusing, and 351 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: that's the first layer. And actually, if you've listened to 352 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: our episodes on tiers that we did I think a 353 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: couple of months ago, you know there's something even to 354 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: the outside of the cornea, which is that thin layer 355 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: of tier film that covers the eye. It's secreted by 356 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: the lachrymal glands actually has multiple parts. That the watery 357 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: part of the tier film is secreted by the lachrymal glands, 358 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: and then there's an oily part of the tier film 359 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: that comes from the base of the eyelids, now coming 360 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: to the pupil. While it's tempting to think of the 361 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: pupil as a thing, the interesting truth is that the 362 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: pupil is really an absence. The pupil is the whole 363 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: or the opening through which light passes. So light comes 364 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: through the cornea and then is directed through the pupil 365 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: and then is focused again a second time after the 366 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: cornea by a clear structure on the inside of the eye, 367 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: the inside of the pupil that's called the lens. And 368 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: then finally, after it is focused through the lens, the 369 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: light is reflected onto the layer of sensitive cells on 370 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: the back of the inside of the eye, known as 371 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: the retina, and then the sensing cells of the retina 372 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: transmit the information about the light via the optic nerve 373 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: all the way to the visual cortex in the back 374 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: of the brain, where the information is made sense of 375 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: in a way that we experience as sight. So I 376 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: think what we should say is that sight happens in 377 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: the brain, which is why there are so many things 378 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: that can that can affect what we see when we 379 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: look at the world. You know, it's not just like 380 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: a video camera feed. There's there's some post processing that 381 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: goes on that can be affected by all kinds of 382 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: things from uh, you know, from biases and little little 383 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: tricks of how the brain works, to drugs and so so. 384 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: Sight happens in the brain, but of course light has 385 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: to go through all these stages within the eye before 386 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: it is turned into the experience of vision in the 387 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: visual cortex. You know. I just think you were talking 388 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: about how about the pupil being an absence and not 389 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: a thing, and I was thinking about, you know, various 390 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: there's of course the Chinese story of the magic paint brush, 391 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: and I think there are different variations on this, but 392 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: there's one in which the paint brush, whatever you paint 393 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: with it comes to life, but only after you have 394 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: added the eye or I think perhaps the you know, 395 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: adding the pupil slash iris of the eye, because depending 396 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: on the detail of your illustration, like the pupil in 397 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: the eye are just going to be one, right, Like 398 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: if you're painting an eye. Drawing an eye, you create 399 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: the white and then you put that black dot in 400 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: the middle to complete it, and it kind of brings 401 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: life to something. But on the other hand, I think 402 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: to the world of miniature paint and off there. If 403 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: anyone's never seen this, you should look it up because 404 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: it can be hilarious. When people are just figuring out 405 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: what they're doing with miniatures, they'll often want to complete 406 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: like this small you know, we're talking like a small scale, uh, 407 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, soldier or something, and they'll want to put 408 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: eyes on it, so they'll create the white dots and 409 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: then they'll go to throw those little black dots in 410 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: there as well, often with just hilarious results. You'll end 411 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: up with just the completely ridiculous googly eyes that that are, 412 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: you know, look too big for the head and one 413 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: eyes put looking off in one direction and the other 414 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: in another direction. But we have that compulsion way like 415 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: we it's not real until I add, you know, the 416 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: pupil iris. We can't just have white there, we can't 417 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: just have dark there. We have to have both. Well, yeah, 418 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: I think there is actually a strong biological reason why 419 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: why having both is very important to us. You know, 420 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: we've looked at research before on how humans are very 421 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: sensitive to noticing gaze direction in other humans, to monitoring 422 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: the movement of other people's eyes to understand where they're looking. 423 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: That is very socially relevant information and we keep close 424 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: tabs on it even when you don't notice you're doing it. Yeah. 425 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: So if you're just see a representation of a human 426 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: and they like don't have pupils in their eyes, this 427 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: is very disturbing because it's like, well, I can't tell 428 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: where they're looking and that you know that that doesn't 429 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: feel good at all. And this is probably why you 430 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: know it's it's very popular in films and TV shows. 431 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: If you need a character to have a very very 432 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: other worldly air to them, just simply give them completely 433 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: black eyes or completely wide eyes, and you know they'll 434 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: have this angelic or demonic a hair about them. Oh yeah, absolutely. 435 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: The one thing I do want to come back to 436 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: when I said that the pupils are an absence and 437 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: I said not a thing. I mean, of course, it 438 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: depends on what you mean by thing, but I mean, 439 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, they are the pinhole in a pinhole camera 440 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: without the whole the pinhole camera doesn't work. They're very important, 441 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: you've got to have them, but what they are is 442 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: an opening. Yeah, here's another weird thing. You ever think 443 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: about the fact that your eye has muscles. I don't know. Yah, 444 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: maybe this is one that everybody else is just fully 445 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: metabolized and it is sitting with them just fine. But 446 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: thinking about my eye muscles makes me a little woozy. 447 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: But obviously it's true. I mean, in fact, your eye 448 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: has multiple levels of muscles. And here's we're going to 449 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: come back to creatures with seven of something. So arranged 450 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: around the back of each of your eyes, on the 451 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: attached to the sclera, there are seven muscles, the extraocular muscles, 452 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: and these are muscles that move the eyeballs into some 453 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: degree the eyelids as well, certainly the superior eyelids. So 454 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: when you look up down side to side, up at 455 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: an angle, when you're trying to remember something, you're flexing 456 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: these muscles. Do you think Colin had seven of these? 457 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: Or did he have forty nine muscles on his eyeballs? Wait? 458 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: Did he have different eyes or I know, I mean 459 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: I think he only had two eyeballs. He just said 460 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: seven irises or eyeles. So these are apportioned according to eyeballs. 461 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: Not took pupils and irises. Didn't know how deep into 462 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: his anatomy the numerology went. But to get even weirder, 463 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: there are also muscles within the eye. There are muscles 464 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: in your eyes responsible for changing the diameter of the 465 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: pupil of that opening. So remember the pupil is basically 466 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: a hole in the function of the pupil is to 467 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: allow light to pass through the lens and onto the retina, 468 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and the eye has to adjust the size of the 469 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: hole to help control light exposure and to focus the image. 470 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: A very easy example to see for yourself. Everybody probably 471 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: did this in elementary school at some point, but if 472 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: you never did, check it out sometime. Watch your pupils 473 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: in a mirror. When you're turning the lights in the 474 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: room on and off. Your pupil will dilate in a 475 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: dark room to allow more light in to become more 476 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: sensitive to less data, and when the light comes on, 477 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 1: the pupil will contract to allow less light in. Now 478 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: I was reading about what function the pupil serves because 479 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: I think the expansion and contraction of the pupil is 480 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: not only for controlling for the amount of light in 481 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: the environment. And I think it also helps control focus 482 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: of the image that you're trying to turn your gaze onto. 483 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: So I was reading about this in a paper by 484 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: Sebastian Methote called Pupilometry, Psychology, Physiology and Function in the 485 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Journal of Cognition twenty eighteen, and Methote writes, quote, although 486 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: people responses likely serve many functions, not all of which 487 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: are fully understood, one important function is to optimize vision, 488 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: either for acuity small pupils see sharper and depth of 489 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: field small pupils see sharply at a wider range of distances, 490 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: or for sensitivity, large pupils are better able to detect 491 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: faint stimuli. And then finally says that that is, pupils 492 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: change their size to optimize vision for a particular situation. 493 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: And probably all of these are familiar to people who 494 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: have ever had to work the aperture of a film camera, 495 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: because you manipulate the aperture not just to respond to 496 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: different light conditions and to avoid overexposing or under exposing, 497 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: but you also do it in order to control things 498 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: like depth of field, like do you want you know 499 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: things that are both close and far away in sharp 500 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: focus are only what's up close in focus and so forth. 501 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: But to come back to those muscles within the eye, 502 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: what causes the expansion or contraction of the pupil is 503 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: actually the set of muscles within the iris. This is 504 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: what your iris is for. And so here's a wonderful 505 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: anatomy fact that everyone should know. When you hear a 506 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: good love song or a poem about eye color. You know, 507 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: my love, how I long to gaze into your big 508 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: brown eyes. The singer is technically longing to gaze into 509 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: two sphincters. What certainly makes you rethink Van Morrison's Brown 510 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: Eyed Girl? That right, Yes, speaking of which Irish singer, 511 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: why not why brown eyes instead of triple or seven 512 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: pupiled eyes? Missed opportunity? Brown Eyed Girl is a song 513 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: all about the appreciation of beautiful glassy sphincters glinting in 514 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: the sun. Okay, So the iris is composed of two 515 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: types of muscle. You've got the dilator muscles, and these 516 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: are long muscle fibers, you know, relatively long within the 517 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: eye at least that cause the pupil to expand when 518 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: they contract. So you can kind of think of muscles 519 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: like pulling and opening wider by by pulling at its edges. 520 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: And then the second type within the iris is the 521 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: sphincter muscle. This is a ring of muscle tissue around 522 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: the inner edge of the iris that shrinks the pupil 523 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: when it contracts. And so the term sphincter is of 524 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: course most famous for referring to the muscle that controls 525 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: the anus, but it actually just means any ring of 526 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: muscle that works to open and close a tube in 527 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: an animal body. So you actually have multiple sphincters throughout 528 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: your body, not just the anus, not just in the 529 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: anus and the irises, but also internally controlling the openings 530 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 1: of the stomach. By the way, we do have at 531 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: least a couple of episodes about the evolution of the 532 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: anus that we did a few years back, So if 533 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: anyone is interested in more information on that, then I 534 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: send you to the vault to seek those episodes out. 535 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I recall that being great fun, But but 536 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to say, believe it or not, this tidbit 537 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: about sphincters is the sphincters of the eyes is not 538 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: just an amusing digression. This will actually play into what 539 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm about to talk about, which is an extremely rare 540 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: medical condition in which human beings do sometimes have multiple 541 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: pupils in the same eye. And this is a condition 542 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,479 Speaker 1: known as polychoria. So it's very very rare, but multiple 543 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: pupils per eye does exist in the real world, and 544 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: so as a source on this, I was looking at 545 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: a book called The Handbook of Pediatric neuro Optimology published 546 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: by Springer in two thousand and six by Kenneth W. Wright, 547 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: Peter H. Spiegel, and Lisa S. Thompson. According to the 548 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: authors here, there are actually two different conditions known as polychoria, 549 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: though both are referring to conditions where there is more 550 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: than one opening in the iris. They say these additional 551 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: openings tend to be due to what they call local 552 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: hypoplasia of the iris stroma and the pigment epithelium. So 553 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: these are the layers of tissue within the iris. The 554 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: iris stroma is the bigger middle layer and the pigment 555 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: epithelium is a layer that is what gives eyes their color, 556 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: the pigment on the back of the irises and so 557 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: hypoplasia within those tissues would mean a lack of cells 558 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 1: or an incomplete formation of the cells within those tissues. Now, 559 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: regarding the two varieties of this condition, there is true polychoria, 560 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: in which there is more than one pupil and they 561 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: each have their own iris sphincter muscle the ability to contract. 562 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: Then there is false polychoria or pseudo polychoria, in which 563 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: there are multiple openings in the iris, but only one 564 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: has the sphincter muscle. So the sphincter muscle is what 565 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: makes the difference. The having the sphincters around your extra 566 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: pupils is what makes it true polychoria. Both conditions are rare, 567 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: but true polychoria is much more rare. They write that 568 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: in almost all clinical situations the correct diagnosis is pseudo polychoria. 569 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: And given how rare polychoria is, there doesn't seem to 570 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: be a ton of accessible medical literature on it. Most 571 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: of what I did find was pretty old. I found 572 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: one report from recent years, and this was an article 573 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: published in Jamma Optimology from twenty twenty by Antoine Safie 574 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: and Shallenburg and Aki Kawasaki called Polychoria in a Young Girl. 575 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: This was a case report of a nine year old 576 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: girl in good health who was in for a regular 577 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: checkup with her doctor when the doctor noticed that she 578 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: had two pupils in her left eye, one regular sized 579 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: pupil in the middle and then another much smaller hole 580 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: in the iris just the side of the primary rob 581 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: I've attached a picture for you to look at here. 582 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: But this case was one of the extremely rare documented 583 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: cases of true polychoria because both pupils in the same 584 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: eye would contract simultaneously when exposed to light, meaning they 585 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: both had functional sphincter muscles surrounding them. And one of 586 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: the proposed causes of true polychoria is what the authors 587 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: call quote a sneering or pinching off from the margin 588 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: of another pupil, and that would seem to make sense 589 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: of why there would be sphincter muscles surrounding it. So 590 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: if you picture the pupil surrounded by this ring of 591 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: sphincter muscle, and then you picture part of that pupil 592 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: by just some kind of quirk of how the cells 593 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: are growing, part of the pupil pinched off and separated 594 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: from the other one, like the iris cells around it 595 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: kind of just come together and grow together and pinch 596 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: off part of it that would still it would still 597 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: be surrounded by those sphincter muscle cells. By the way, 598 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of times we'll say, definitely, go do 599 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: an image search so you can see what we're talking 600 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: about here. I have to advise if you're doing a 601 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: search for polychoria, you will invariably turn up some actual images, 602 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: but also a lot of doctored images and like clickbait 603 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: images that don't represent anything that's actually happening in the 604 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: real biological world. If you definitely want to see a 605 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: real photo, you can look up the article I just 606 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: mentioned again that was in jam Optomology called polychoria in 607 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: a young Girl. It just as close ups of the 608 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: pupils and you can see them right there. Yeah, these 609 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: images are quite impressive. Though of course, I have to 610 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: say that anytime you have a close up image of 611 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: the inner workings of an eyeball, you're getting into weird 612 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: territory because it quickly becomes this strange a in the world. Now, 613 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: you might be tempted to wonder, WHOA if somebody has 614 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: two pupils in the same eye, how does that affect vision? 615 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: Like do they see two images out of that eye 616 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: or something? And the answer to that is no, because 617 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: what's what's creating the what's sending the light data back 618 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: to your visual cortex is the retina. So what tends 619 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: to result from polychoria is usually just some impairment of 620 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: vision in that eye. But it doesn't tend to, at 621 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: least as far as I've read, create any extravagant unusual effects. 622 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: More likely, if it has effects on vision, it's probably 623 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: just some reduction in the function of the eye or 624 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: impairment of vision. I mean, you kind of come back 625 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: to the same place where we've we've been here before, 626 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: where you you talk about site and it's something that 627 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: we know most of us take for granted. But then 628 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: when you start thinking about what's act really happening, you 629 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: know that you have these not one, but two different 630 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 1: eyeballs functioning, and uh and then this data is then um, 631 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: you know, reassembled and created into this stitched together into 632 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: this this simulated model of the world inside our heads. 633 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty crazy. Well yeah, and especially because as 634 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: we said earlier, you know, vision happens in the brain. 635 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: It just makes use of data gathered with the eyes. 636 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: So the brain can actually do a lot of compensating, 637 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: adapting and adjusting based on what's going on in the 638 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: first part of the process. Right. It also reminds me 639 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: of talking to David Eagleman. You know, one of the 640 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: things he points out is that we're basically mister potato 641 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: heads and the more sensory tools that you plug into 642 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: the brain, like, it's just going to be integrated into 643 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: the model. So you know, it's like one eyeball, two eyeballs, Um, 644 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: if you if you were to add additional eyeballs or 645 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: additional things, that's that that fed in additional data like 646 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: that would be consolidated into the Yeah, he's pretty from 647 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: what I understand, he's pretty bullish on plasticity, right, And 648 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: I guess there are differences of opinion among experts on this, 649 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: like how adaptable is the adult brain, how many types 650 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: of new sensory information could a brain make use of? 651 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think he's more on the end of 652 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: like we would be shocked how much the brain can 653 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: adapt to, right. Yeah, But then again, just coming back 654 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: to the idea that, yeah, your vision is not the 655 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: thing your eye does. Your vision is the thing your 656 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: brain does using the eyes. Right. All Right, So we're 657 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: gonna be back in the next episode. We're gonna have 658 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: more ancient ideas about multi lobed eyes. We're gonna have 659 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: We're gonna have some more science at this time from 660 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: the animal world and some of the strange pupils going 661 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: on out there. I did want to mention, though, briefly, 662 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: that yeah, you do have some some pretty neat pop 663 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: culture examples of multi pupil, multi irist eyes. I was 664 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 1: trying to think of think of them. I feel like 665 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: the ones that came to mind or are all kind 666 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: of loosely connected to each other, or they all feel 667 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: like they're very much within the same sort of genre 668 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,959 Speaker 1: of sort of weird horror themed visionary art. I was like, Rob, 669 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: is it going to be Tool? Yeah, well it has 670 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: to be Tool, right, So like and because I guess 671 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: these were probably my first exposures to this kind of 672 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: of imagery, even though again it's it's you know, it's 673 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,479 Speaker 1: clearly been around with us for a very long time. 674 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: But there's the Adam Jones of Tool. His art for 675 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: the The ep Opiate features something like, you know, eyes 676 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: with multiple pupils and or eyes undergoing mitosis or their 677 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: figure eight pupils. It's you know, hard to figure out 678 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: exactly what's happening in a stationary image. There's also the 679 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 1: cam de Leon album art Ocular Orifice for Tools nineteen 680 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: ninety six album Onema featuring an eye with two or 681 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: more irises and pupils, and that's one that I believe 682 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: is animated as well. So its this you get this 683 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: idea of the eye turning. Was that an album that 684 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: had some release where you'd like turn it in the 685 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: light and it would move? Yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah, 686 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: some of the images could be placed so that they're 687 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: they're looking out the front of the CD case and 688 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: it creates this this this movement. The real masters of 689 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: the physical release, the horror movie you talked about with 690 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: the VHS box with the light up eyes. Yeah, yeah, 691 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: they were very very much and that I mean they're 692 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: still putting out albums with that kind of gimmick rick, 693 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: which which I love. Um. Now, a film that comes 694 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: to mind, there's John Carpenter's in the Mouth of Madness, 695 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: which I know you you saw in the last few years. Anyway, 696 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: there's a scene in which a deranged killer, uh like 697 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: you know, crashes through the the storefront, this cafe front 698 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: with an axe and then you get a close up 699 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: of his eyes, and he seems to have they're either 700 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: like conjoined irises, or perhaps irises that are undergoing mitosis 701 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: that are coming together or splitting apart, or something is 702 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: going on there, and it's like a super creepy moment. 703 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: And then he starts talking about Sutter kane Um and 704 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: then of cour course, you know that's a film that's 705 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 1: often talked about in terms of the Lovecrafty and influences. 706 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: There's a great madness line at the end of HP 707 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: Lovecraft's story The Haunter of the Dark that reads, I 708 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: see it coming here, hell Win, Titan blur, black wings, 709 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: Yog so thought save me. The three lobed burning eye. 710 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, after all this talk of seven lobed 711 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: burning eyes, I feel like that's right. The same is 712 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: not that impressive. I can easily imagine the three lobe 713 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: burning eye, seven lobed. Yeah, that's too mad to even 714 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: right about. Yog Sotho arrives on Earth after millions of 715 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: years is like I have come to conquer runs into 716 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: ku Collin. Collin's like, I have so many more irises 717 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 1: than you, And that's right, Yeah, I have a Kukolin. 718 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: Could could totally whip yog sotho, no no, no question 719 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: about it. All right, Well, we're gonna go and close 720 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,479 Speaker 1: it out there, but we will be back Thursday. There'll 721 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: be more I related to Wonder, more related science, so 722 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: tune in. In the meantime. We'd love to hear from everyone, though, 723 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: if you have thoughts about this episode, if you have 724 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: thoughts about Irish mythology, other tales that involve multiple pupils 725 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: or multiple irises in the same eye. Like I said, 726 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: we're going to mention some in the next episode, but 727 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,919 Speaker 1: it's very likely. I mean it's it's I'm definitely missing something. 728 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: There's some sort of detail from some other folklore, mythology, 729 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: or certainly pop culture, and we would love to hear 730 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: about any of those examples. So write in and let 731 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: us know. Those episodes. Of course, core episodes of Stuff 732 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 733 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: On Wednesday we do a short form artifact or monster fact. 734 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: On Monday we do listener Mail, and on Friday we 735 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: do Weird House Cinema. That's our time to set aside 736 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,959 Speaker 1: most serious matters and just discuss a strange film. Huge 737 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,720 Speaker 1: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 738 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 739 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 740 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,399 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 741 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: you can email us at tact at stuff to Blow 742 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 743 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 744 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening 745 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.