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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles to w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there.

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Speaker 1: And now whatever chipperness you might hear, my voice can

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Speaker 1: decline from here on out. Yeah. Man, this this is

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Speaker 1: another one of those that's uh tough topic. It's not

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Speaker 1: gonna be loaded with jokes. No, I can't. I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I can't think of a single one. And anytime, like

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Speaker 1: I started to be like, oh, maybe we should come

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Speaker 1: with jokes. Now, that's not like we do that anyway, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: this would be a good place for a joke. Let

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Speaker 1: me get joke here in brackets? Yes, obviously. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: mean if you saw the title about rape kits, uh,

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Speaker 1: hopefully that is the trigger warning you need. But we

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Speaker 1: might as well just say it out loud. Trigger warning

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Speaker 1: for this one. That's all we need to say anything,

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Speaker 1: right pretty much. I mean, we're talking about rape, um,

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Speaker 1: sexual assault in general, and specifically. I want to say, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: I've had on the list for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: Rape as a topic itself, I think it definitely deserves

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Speaker 1: it um, but it's I've just been kind of walking

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Speaker 1: past it every time I go down the list, you know. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it's due, especially after this one. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it's almost like we needed to do this one first,

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Speaker 1: or else it wouldn't be stuff. You should know if

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Speaker 1: we didn't do something tangential, bigger topic. Right, we'll do

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Speaker 1: that eventually. Yeah. And also this comes out this is

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Speaker 1: one of those happenstance things. As I was researching and

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Speaker 1: reading this stuff, I was like, oh, you know what

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Speaker 1: we should check and see when, uh, Sexual Assault Awareness

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Speaker 1: Month is. And it turned out it's April. And it

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Speaker 1: turned out that April two, the day that this drops, uh,

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Speaker 1: is day of Action. So they encourage people to wear

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Speaker 1: teal on April two, which is today. I'm almost I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing well it's mint green, but it's awfully close to

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Speaker 1: t Yeah. It's weird how this is all coming together

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Speaker 1: like this, so, um, you know action they should be

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Speaker 1: for sexualists all awareness month. It should be like a

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Speaker 1: purge like yeah, that's what you haven't seen the movie,

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Speaker 1: but I get yeah I haven't either, but I know

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Speaker 1: there uh and that um. Sexual Assault Awareness Month is

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Speaker 1: carried out by h N s v RC DOT org

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Speaker 1: the Natural National Sexual Violence Resource Center. Uh. And also

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Speaker 1: I know that we're doing a lot of uh precursoring here,

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Speaker 1: but there is one section here on what to do

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Speaker 1: if you've been sexually assaulted. Um, two dudes explaining this,

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Speaker 1: like just do this, like, we're not taking it that likely,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it. We know that it is extremely

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Speaker 1: difficult to do anything much less like follow all the

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Speaker 1: exact steps. Uh. So many sexual assaults and rapes get

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Speaker 1: unreported for a thousand reasons. So we're not taking this lightly.

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Speaker 1: But this is our job, this is what we do,

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Speaker 1: and this is an important topic. So please excuse two

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Speaker 1: dudes explaining a section on what to do when you're

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Speaker 1: sexually assaulted. But I think that also raises another point

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Speaker 1: that I want to touch on too, Chuck, sexual assault

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Speaker 1: doesn't just happen to women. It happens to men. The

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Speaker 1: trans community is also a big target for sexual assault unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: So while it is largely women from what I've seen

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Speaker 1: women between eighteen and thirty five, um, it hits all

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Speaker 1: demographics and targets across the across the spectrum of human beings,

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Speaker 1: including men. UM. So I wanted to say that as well.

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Speaker 1: All Right, now on with the show. Uh, so should

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Speaker 1: we do the history part first? I think I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: so I think we should say what a rape kit

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Speaker 1: actually is. Oh, that's something we always do wrong, but

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Speaker 1: we're doing it right though we've hit everything right so far.

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Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think, uh, a rape kit. And

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry everybody to keep saying rape kit. They're

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Speaker 1: also called sexual assault evidence collection kits. You can understand

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Speaker 1: why people call them rape kits, but from here on,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll just try to say kit. Um. They they

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Speaker 1: are really simply a box. I saw shoebox size ED

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Speaker 1: says microwave oven size just depends on the oven. It's

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Speaker 1: a big old box, um. And inside this box is

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Speaker 1: a all the stuff you need to collect the evidence

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Speaker 1: of a sexual assault. YEA that a professional uses. It's

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Speaker 1: not like a home thing. No, but it does include

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Speaker 1: such thorough, step by step directions that someone who's not

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Speaker 1: specifically trained to do this can can um can can

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Speaker 1: can carry out this kind of examination? Does this like?

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Speaker 1: Can you buy these and perform this at home? If

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Speaker 1: you're too A thousand reasons why you wouldn't go into

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Speaker 1: a hospital. I think that, um, you you can? You

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Speaker 1: can buy them from medical supply or law enforcement supply places.

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Speaker 1: Both of them sell kits, and they're actually relatively cheap.

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Speaker 1: I saw between five fifty bucks, UM, So yeah, you

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Speaker 1: totally could probably not. The defense would just shoot holes

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Speaker 1: in it all day long and the jury would be like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Which they're part of the part of the

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Speaker 1: process of collecting this evidence and combining it altogether to

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Speaker 1: create this This kit is it begins a chain of custody.

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Speaker 1: And if you do it at home and then bring

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Speaker 1: it in and they're going to be like, come on, right,

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Speaker 1: And there are a lot of problems with the chain

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Speaker 1: of custody that we're obviously going to cover as well

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Speaker 1: when you leave it to the professionals. It's just a

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Speaker 1: big mess. But it is a big mess. But but

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Speaker 1: it's still more often than not, it seems to be UM.

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Speaker 1: It seems to have been a good invention, and that

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Speaker 1: that is a thing. It is an invention, UM, And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't always around. It's actually a relatively new invention.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until I think that the first ones actually

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Speaker 1: came into official use by the I believe the police

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Speaker 1: department in Chicago and then later on Illinois, which served

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Speaker 1: as a bit of a laboratory for it, and it

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Speaker 1: was so successful that within another year it started to

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Speaker 1: spread around the country. Yeah, and just I mean it

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Speaker 1: sounds like it's hard to believe, but just collecting uh

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Speaker 1: and having the tools in a box and collecting the

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Speaker 1: evidence and putting it in a box for storage, just

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Speaker 1: that alone coming around went a long way toward UM

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Speaker 1: helping victims be taken seriously legitimizing rape and sexual assault. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's sad, but that's that's the case. UM.

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Speaker 1: When they were first brought out, they were called the

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Speaker 1: two low kits in a lot of circles B I

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Speaker 1: t U, L l O UH and Louis or Louis.

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Speaker 1: I never know. I'm thinking since season Chicago Lewis Lewis.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say Louis because Chicago. I

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Speaker 1: think it'd be I E if it were in Chicago Louis.

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Speaker 1: All right, well we'll go with Louis. Let's just call

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Speaker 1: him Chicago lou Chicago Louadulo. Now he sounds like a

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Speaker 1: mobster Chicago Louvadulo. I think the vitulo is really not helping, No,

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Speaker 1: But he was not a mobster He was actually worked

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Speaker 1: in the Chicago PDS forensic crime lab. He was a

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Speaker 1: UM sergeant and lieutenant who, uh did not invent the

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Speaker 1: rape kit, but he was charged with sort of codifying

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Speaker 1: it and putting his stamp because he was one of

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Speaker 1: the first people in law enforcement that was trying to

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Speaker 1: create a standardized procedure. Yeah, he was already a very

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Speaker 1: well respected forensic investigator, and so for him to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm a big city forensic investigator, widely respected, and this

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Speaker 1: thing is the bomb. This is a great invention. We

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Speaker 1: should all start using it. And here's how it really

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Speaker 1: helped spread uh and give it a boost early on.

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Speaker 1: But even though they were called vitulo kits um, there's there.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not to say like he was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I invented this. I think he was just um known

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Speaker 1: in the mind of other law enforcement agents that like

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Speaker 1: they associated him in in these kids. UM. So that's

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Speaker 1: what everybody else called it. But really, if you want

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Speaker 1: to nail down an inventor of the rape kid, it

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Speaker 1: was a woman named um Martha Marty Goddard. Yeah, Goddard

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Speaker 1: and but Tula read some interviews with his grandkids and

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Speaker 1: it's like a really proud legacy. They still get letters

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Speaker 1: from people from women. Um Goddards, she has unplugged. Like uh,

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Speaker 1: I saw one interview with her where they talked about

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Speaker 1: and we're going to cover this heavily later, but the

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Speaker 1: um the kit backlog, Um, she didn't even know about

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Speaker 1: it because she's like no TV, no internet, no newspapers.

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Speaker 1: She really just sort of checked out. And she was like,

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Speaker 1: that's really sad to hear about that. It is very sad.

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Speaker 1: So I saw a quote somewhere that um, I think

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Speaker 1: is Vitula's grandkids said that that he would be spinning

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Speaker 1: in his grave if you knew about this backlog, which

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Speaker 1: we'll get too later. Um. So Goddard was a survivor

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault and she got together with some other victims.

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Speaker 1: Basically the riding was on the wall like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: things weren't being taken seriously in many police departments. Yea.

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Speaker 1: She saw firsthand that like that, that they weren't collecting

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Speaker 1: evidence correctly, that they weren't they weren't taking it seriously,

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Speaker 1: which is still a huge problem. Um. And she she

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Speaker 1: decided to do something about it. Well, the first questions

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Speaker 1: and still in a lot of areas. Probably the first

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Speaker 1: question still are like, well, what was the situation? And

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Speaker 1: if it starts with while I met a guy at

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Speaker 1: a bar, then you're sort of discounted, like out of

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Speaker 1: the gate um. Very very sad and very unfair. But

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Speaker 1: she formed a group called Citizens for Victims Assistants in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and went to work, Like she said,

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Speaker 1: she was doing sixteen hour days um visiting hospitals, talking

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Speaker 1: to cops, going to police stations, lawyers, judges, basically learning

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Speaker 1: and working on everyone she could about how to get

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Speaker 1: a better system going. But she needed money and she

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Speaker 1: got that from, of all places, the Playboy Foundation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Hugh Heffner's foundation, his daughter Christie was friends with Marty Goddard,

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Speaker 1: and um, I think Playboy gave her ten grand, which

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Speaker 1: is equal to about forty two grain in today's money.

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Speaker 1: And that was enough to go start assembling these kits

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Speaker 1: because one of the um points from the outset of

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Speaker 1: these these kits was that they be inexpensive because hospital

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Speaker 1: they did, they wanted to remove as many barriers as

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Speaker 1: possible for hospitals to start implementing the widely. And one

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Speaker 1: one really easy way to do it was to say

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Speaker 1: here these are virtually free or in some cases these

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Speaker 1: are free because this community group raised a bunch of

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Speaker 1: money to purchase the implements of these kits, put them

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Speaker 1: all together, and now here you're you just use them,

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Speaker 1: that's all, which is a success story in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: When know how like big Farmer works in the medical

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Speaker 1: community in America, Like I could have seen this being like, well,

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Speaker 1: these swabs and envelopes and combs, Um, this will be

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Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars per kid. Yeah, it's because we put

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Speaker 1: it all in a box for you, Marty. God had

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Speaker 1: gotten the way of that from the outside and still

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Speaker 1: to this day. I mean, that's why they're not any

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Speaker 1: more than five to twenty five dollars even from like

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Speaker 1: a medical supplier. Amazing. So she's a hashtag hero? Are

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Speaker 1: you doing that now? Hashtag in it? Yeah, relate to

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Speaker 1: the game, my friend. As always. Have you heard about

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Speaker 1: this hashtag thing? You gotta go keep doing hashtag? Okay.

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Speaker 1: See I knew you'd get a funny in there. Um

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Speaker 1: so that they were developed before DNA evidence was even around.

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Speaker 1: Um So this was back when it was just like

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Speaker 1: hair and fiber fingernails, stuff like that. UM, still very valuable.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I think one of the kits that's sort

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Speaker 1: of common these days is what's known as the Southwestern

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Speaker 1: Sexual Assault Evidence Collection Kit. It's like this the gold standard,

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Speaker 1: I guess so, UM, and it's called the Southwestern Obviously

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Speaker 1: it was in Texas, the Attorney General's office there in

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Speaker 1: kind of created this one. And UM, that's sort of,

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Speaker 1: like you said, the one that people look to or

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Speaker 1: base their's on. Yeah, because I mean they took the

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Speaker 1: groundwork that Marty Goddard came up with, going from to

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Speaker 1: all of what you call in the corporate world and

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Speaker 1: buzzbeak all the stakeholders in the process of um, apprehending

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Speaker 1: and convicting people, UM, who are who sexually assault other people? UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, scumbags you can just say monsters, yeah, monsters. UM.

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Speaker 1: And she figured out exactly how to put this together

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Speaker 1: and laid the groundwork, and then from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: in the late nineties, the Texas UM, the the Texas

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's Office said let's let's let's purifies it. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's make it even better, like using what we know.

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Speaker 1: Then that's what's in use largely today. Although you're gonna

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Speaker 1: find different kids. There's no there's no actual standards, a

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Speaker 1: de facto standards, and and and at the same point, Um,

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Speaker 1: different hospitals you go to, even in the same state,

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Speaker 1: are going to follow slightly different procedures. They might use

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Speaker 1: slightly different kits. But some case, some states have said no,

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Speaker 1: this is important enough, Like here is how you do this.

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Speaker 1: Here is the law of how you conduct a rape

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Speaker 1: kid examination. Yeah, and so Goddard and Vetulo, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: his stamp of approval, her working hard to get these things,

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Speaker 1: you know, built from the ground up. The work that

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Speaker 1: they did together was like really set the standard in

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Speaker 1: the late seventies for this across the country, just becoming

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Speaker 1: just more a more normalized way to collect evidence and

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Speaker 1: take it more seriously. Right, It was a big, big deal,

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Speaker 1: big one. Yeah, not just literally having you know, all

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Speaker 1: of the implements you need to conduct this investigation, but

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Speaker 1: just the very presence of these sexual assault evidence collection fits.

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Speaker 1: The fact that they exist, says law enforcement, saying, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a bigger deal than we've been treating it.

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Speaker 1: You want to take a break, Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break. Everybody. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you just heard but won't be right back. It's alright, Chuck.

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Speaker 1: So the very reason that these kids exist is because

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Speaker 1: sexual assault is a very unique kind of crime in

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Speaker 1: that the victim, the body of the victim, is a

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Speaker 1: crime scene, um, a walking talking crime scene. I mean

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Speaker 1: like if you're murdered or something thing and like your

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Speaker 1: body is dumped somewhere, your your body is still a

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Speaker 1: crime scene, but you're walking around moving. You can actually

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Speaker 1: contaminate the very crime scene from your assault just by

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Speaker 1: doing things that any normal human being would want to

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Speaker 1: do after being sexually assaulted. It's it's, in that sense,

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Speaker 1: a very unique kind of kind of crime scene. And

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Speaker 1: that's what sexual assault evidence collection kids are for is

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Speaker 1: to step by step, methodically systematically collect that evidence um

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Speaker 1: and and and preserve it so that it can later

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Speaker 1: be analyzed in using court. Yeah. So these are the

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Speaker 1: recommended steps if you've been a victim. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: there are a thousand reasons that you would not want

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Speaker 1: to do any and all of these things, and we

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Speaker 1: totally get that, but uh, and I think Ed puts

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Speaker 1: it in a really good way. Um, in this article,

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Speaker 1: he said, to receive the best possible care just medically

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Speaker 1: for yourself and to have the best chances is of

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Speaker 1: collecting good evidence. UM. It needs to be within a

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Speaker 1: twenty four hour window ideally critical is critical, and apparently

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Speaker 1: up to three days it's still viable. But after three

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Speaker 1: days most experts are like, it's not as far as DNA,

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Speaker 1: which is the real you know, really what you're looking for. UM.

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Speaker 1: You will be uh very upset, and you may be

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Speaker 1: in literal shock. UH, you may have had one or

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Speaker 1: more panic attacks. All of these things make it very

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Speaker 1: difficult to to carry out like logical steps. But UM

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Speaker 1: experts say that the first thing you want to do

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Speaker 1: obviously is get somewhere safe as soon as you can. UM,

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Speaker 1: get away if your attacker is around, and try and

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Speaker 1: find someone you know an advocate for you, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a friend or a family member who can kind of

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Speaker 1: be with you in the in the first you know,

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Speaker 1: hours after this this horrific event has happened, UM, go

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Speaker 1: to the emergency room, even if you're not injured. Quote

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Speaker 1: unquote physics like, you really should go to the emergency

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Speaker 1: room as soon as you can. This is a big one,

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Speaker 1: not just because the emergency room is where you're going

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Speaker 1: to um have this kid administered. But also because it

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Speaker 1: takes such tremendous um reserve to draw on such tremendous

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Speaker 1: reserves to take yourself out of the comfort and safety

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Speaker 1: of your home, which is probably where you went, to

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Speaker 1: not take a shower, which is another huge step too,

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Speaker 1: And to just say I'm going to go to the

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Speaker 1: emergency room and um and undergo this procedure and let

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Speaker 1: a bunch of strangers poke and probably and tell them

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Speaker 1: about what has happened. That's the ideal of what you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to do. But if you look at it in

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Speaker 1: that respect, that's just such a that's such a huge

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Speaker 1: thing on top of what just happened, that that that

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Speaker 1: this is required of you to to catch the person

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Speaker 1: who just did it. I mean from a from a

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Speaker 1: bystanders perspective, it just makes you want to catch them

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Speaker 1: even more. You know that that's on top of the

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Speaker 1: salt as well. Yeah, because it's not like the trauma

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Speaker 1: is over for you and anyway it may never be.

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Speaker 1: But UM, go to the e R as soon as

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Speaker 1: you can if it's not right. If you if you

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Speaker 1: go to sleep and wake up the next day, you

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Speaker 1: can go to the emergency room. Then, like it's just

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Speaker 1: important that you go whenever you feel like you can

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Speaker 1: do so. Um And like you said, it's um probably

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Speaker 1: the least intuitive thing you could imagine to not want

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Speaker 1: to shower and bathe yourself, but that that gets rid

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Speaker 1: of a lot of evidence. So it's it's a terrible

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Speaker 1: But they say, please do not shower, They say please please.

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Speaker 1: If you, um, you should keep the clothes you're wearing

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Speaker 1: on if you can, if understandably you can't or don't

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Speaker 1: want to, um, save them. Yeah, put him in a

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Speaker 1: bag and take them to the er with you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you have the wear with all to change clothes,

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Speaker 1: and this is something that they will have you do

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, have you stand over like uh like

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Speaker 1: butcher paper or maybe even a towel, if you have

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Speaker 1: the wherewithal to do that wherever you are, um, whether

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Speaker 1: it's at home or in a hotel or someplace. Put

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Speaker 1: that in there too, because when you're changing your clothes,

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Speaker 1: that's when you know DNA evidence can can fall out,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a hair or whatever. And in right, just

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Speaker 1: collect everything you can and put it in a bag. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: do not wash those clothes and then take those with

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Speaker 1: you to the emergency room. And then the last thing, Um,

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Speaker 1: you should know just because you're going to an emergency room,

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Speaker 1: and even if you are tested with this forensic kit,

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Speaker 1: you're not required to file a police report. Ever. That's

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Speaker 1: a big one, but especially right away. It's not like

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have a cop in there grilling you. Um,

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Speaker 1: you can file this police report whenever you want to. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you are not comfortable filing a police report right

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Speaker 1: then you can do what's called a Jane Doe or

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Speaker 1: imagine a John Doe um examination where they just go

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Speaker 1: through all the steps and collect all the evidence, but

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Speaker 1: you never see a cop there. They don't call the

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Speaker 1: police until after you've left. Um. So that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a big one for a lot of people. The end

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Speaker 1: points out though in some states there is still a

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Speaker 1: statute of limitations of between ten and twenty one years,

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Speaker 1: although some states have removed the statute of limitations for

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Speaker 1: a felony sexual assault. Um, but there there there can

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Speaker 1: be a clock ticking. But we're talking ten years at

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Speaker 1: the least, right, Um, So yeah, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: This isn't something you have to knock out that day.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to if you're not ready to UM.

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Speaker 1: When you go to the e R for a UH,

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Speaker 1: this kind of examination, you are signing up for a

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Speaker 1: few hours. It's going to take a few hours. Is

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Speaker 1: not a quick procedure. And there's something else that you

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Speaker 1: should know that I really hope won't discourage you, but

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Speaker 1: you should go into it knowing it is a UM,

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Speaker 1: it's an invasive procedure. UM. They have to collect evidence

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Speaker 1: from everywhere the um that the the guy who did

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Speaker 1: this to you or the person who did this to

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Speaker 1: you was And they're also going to ask you they're

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Speaker 1: going to take an oral history and they're going to

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Speaker 1: ask you to basically recount the worst thing that's ever

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Speaker 1: happened to you within twenty four hours after it happened.

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Speaker 1: And UM. Then they're gonna go over all of the

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Speaker 1: spots with things like swabs and tweezers and combs and

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Speaker 1: things like that to collect this evidence. And it's gonna

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Speaker 1: take a while. But you should expect to be treated

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Speaker 1: very gently and with a tremendous amount of respect UM

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Speaker 1: from the people who are going to administer this examination.

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Speaker 1: And I would guess to a hospital there will be

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Speaker 1: counselors available there to be there with you if you

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Speaker 1: don't have like a friend or a family member there

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Speaker 1: with you or anything. Yeah, in rural areas are where

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Speaker 1: they're they still need to do a lot of catch

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Speaker 1: up work UM in hospitals and things like that. But

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Speaker 1: if you're in any major city, UM, there will almost

380
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Speaker 1: chance that you'll have what's called a sexual assault nurse

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Speaker 1: examiner on staff. UM. This is a nurse who has

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Speaker 1: received extra training UM on how to administer this exam. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Like we said before, like any nurse can do this

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Speaker 1: and do a great job. But if you have a

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Speaker 1: U s A, any a sane trained person on staff,

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Speaker 1: then that's who you'll be seeing. UM. And you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, in rural areas, they're just it's just

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Speaker 1: tough to staff up for for things like this. So

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Speaker 1: they're still doing all they can to get grant money

390
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: and stuff like that to get these people trained up. Yeah,

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00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: it's just a question of extra funding. Because if you

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Speaker 1: give a hospital funding that's set aside for sane nurses,

393
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Speaker 1: you just created a new position in a hospital that

394
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Speaker 1: wasn't there before. You've given the nursing staff there an

395
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Speaker 1: incentive to go further their education, invest in their education

396
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Speaker 1: so that they can have this better job in the

397
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Speaker 1: same hospital and help people as well. So it's really

398
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: just a question of of funding. Yeah, that's it, you know.

399
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of this stuff sadly is question

400
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Speaker 1: of funding. Yeah. Luckily there is enough agitation at the

401
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: bottom up that that, like the pocketbooks have kind of

402
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: loosened up over recent years. Right, it is. It is

403
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Speaker 1: something that it hasn't been. It's been as a result

404
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: of agitation and bad press, right, right, And you know

405
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: this is the right thing to do, Yeah, for sure. Um,

406
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: consent is a big part of all the the entire procedure.

407
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 1: They're going to ask you basically before everything, like, hey,

408
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: I have a speculum here, we need to do a

409
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Speaker 1: vaginal exam. Um. Is that okay with you? And you

410
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: can say no to any and all of this stuff.

411
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Speaker 1: This is all up to you on how you want

412
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Speaker 1: to proceed with this. If they're gonna ask for your

413
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Speaker 1: consent for the whole procedure first, and then step by

414
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: step before each step they're going to ask for your

415
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: consent as well, and they're gonna explain what's coming up,

416
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Speaker 1: Like you said, yeah, and as far as the interview portion, Um,

417
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: this is really import and stuff as far as what

418
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: will eventually wind up with investigators. Um, and the questions

419
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Speaker 1: about like, uh, were you on drugs or had you

420
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: been drinking? Like this isn't to set you up for future,

421
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Speaker 1: you know, grilling by a prosecutor necessarily, but like if

422
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: you you may have been drugged or you may have

423
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: had a drink spiked or something like that. So all

424
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: of this is like just super super important. So they

425
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: need to know. They need to say, hey, future lab

426
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Speaker 1: tech test for roof and all or something like that. Whatever. Um,

427
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: if that if you were in a bar and you

428
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: suddenly woke up on the side of the road, right,

429
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: if that, that's the kind of history they're taking for

430
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: you for those reasons, not not you know, what were

431
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: you doing in a bar by yourself? That's not what

432
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: this is. Again, this is not a detective asking you

433
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: or performing this exam. They might not even be aware

434
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: of your case yet. This is a trained nurse, or

435
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: at the very least in a red stirred nurse who

436
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: is performing this with one would expect a tremendous amount

437
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: of like compassion and respectfulness. Absolutely, Uh, You're gonna be

438
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: giving blood and urine samples. This is super important to

439
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: provide a DNA baseline. Um. They will plug cares from

440
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: your scalp. They will swab your mouth. Um, they will

441
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: use a comb to collect pubic hare. Um. There will

442
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: be you know, we already mentioned a genital exam, whether

443
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: it's vaginal or anal. Um. They really like you said that,

444
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: They just they have to go over with a sort

445
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: of a fine tooth comb everywhere where the assault happened. Yeah,

446
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: since they're gonna ask you awful questions like where you

447
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 1: penetrated anally, was an object used to the perpetrator, lick

448
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: you or kiss you or anything like that, And depending

449
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: on these questions, are going to investigate further. But they're

450
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: going to they're going to follow certain steps that no

451
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: matter what. But then if you say, yes, the guy

452
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: licked my face on like my left cheek, there's gonna

453
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: be a swab on your left cheek that they otherwise

454
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: may not have included in the normal steps. Yeah. And

455
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: again this is like, I mean, I can't imagine having

456
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: to relive something like this. And they're right within like

457
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, like twenty four hours after it happened,

458
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: like the worst thing that happened to you in your life.

459
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it here. Point to where it happened,

460
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: you know, from a stranger. Well, and there are plenty

461
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: of interviews that that we both read where you know,

462
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: women said it was it was reliving it and I

463
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: felt like I was being even with a great care given,

464
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: like I was being assaulted all over again. Uh. It's

465
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: just so important to try and try and do if

466
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: you can. If you can get there, Um, if you can't,

467
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: there's no blame, there's no judgment, like it's that's a

468
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: that's a normal reaction. This is a lot to ask

469
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: from somebody, But this is what it takes to to

470
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: collect the evidence and preserve it in a way that

471
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: you can catch the person who did this. Yeah, they're

472
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: gonna test for uh, well it's not required actually to

473
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: test for STDs, but they will ask you, uh about STDs.

474
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 1: I would imagine ask if you want to be tested.

475
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: They will offer um emergency contraception as well. And you're

476
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: not going to be charged for that procedure or the kit.

477
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: Here's the thing go or you shouldn't be No, you

478
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: won't be not for the not for the the the

479
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: administration of the kits, which is that's great, that's substantially

480
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: I mean it's a sixteen dollar kit, but this is

481
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: also four or five hours of an ear nurses potentially

482
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: a highly trained ear nurses time. So that's great, they're

483
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: not charging you. But what's what's a shame what's shameful,

484
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: I should say, is that you will still be charged

485
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: for any treatment of injuries, saying like you, um, you

486
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 1: were were hit and you need to be treated with

487
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: like stitches or whatever. You'll get a bill for stitches.

488
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: If you say, yes, I do want anti viral drugs

489
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: because I'm afraid of having contracted an STD, or I

490
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: do want emergency contraception, They'll say here's your prescription, and

491
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: the pharmacist will charge you for that. That's not okay.

492
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: As a society, we should not ask rape and sexual

493
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: assault victims to pay for their own medical treatment directly

494
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: coming from a rape or a sexual assault. We should

495
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: bear that burden ourselves, and then it should give us

496
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: that even slighter additional incentive to go get the guy

497
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: who did it, you know what I mean, we should

498
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: nobody should pay a cent, and then even worse than that,

499
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, I realize I'm standing on a pretty

500
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: big soapbox right now. But worse than that, Chuck, Prior

501
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: to the Affordable Care Act, you could not you It

502
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: was possible that you would be denied future UM healthcare

503
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: coverage insurance if you were the victim of a sexual

504
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: assault or rape, UM who went to go get treatment

505
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: because they treated it as a pre existing condition. A

506
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: pre existing could issue was rape. Can you believe that, uh,

507
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: sadly I can have stepped down, UM, that they're gonna

508
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: take this kit, They're gonna seal everything up, they're gonna

509
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: store it. UM. Everything is like you know, all the

510
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: clothing and everything and all the swabs are dried out

511
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: and labeled and UM, then it's sealed back in that

512
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: original box as part of the UM. I guess the

513
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: genius of this kit was that every thing that comes

514
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: out of it goes right back in. And it is

515
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: also the storage device where it's you know, labeled, and

516
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: then it's all shipped to local law enforcement and then

517
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: it's stored um quite possibly till the end of time,

518
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: sadly uh or destroyed. We'll get to both of those things.

519
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: And ideally and UM under just about any procedure. Every

520
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: single person who takes custody of that is supposed to

521
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: sign the label on our side of the box, so

522
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: there's a clear chain of custody, and it goes from

523
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: the e er um nurse to the cops, to the prosecutors,

524
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: to the lab to the prosecutors and so on. But

525
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: there's supposed to be a clear chain of custody so

526
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: that there's no questions about whether it was tampered with

527
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: or anything. I always that's the one thing that weirds

528
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: me out about any kind of blood sample I'm ever

529
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: asked to give, or any kind of procedure I'm ever

530
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: tested for, is when I see them take my blood

531
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: or whatever specimen and they're writing on the little thing

532
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: and it leaves the room. I don't know why. My

533
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: first thought is always like, well, they're gonna mix that

534
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: up with somebody, which is not true. But I'm always

535
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: just like, all right, well it's out of my vision,

536
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: so I don't trust it. Right. I don't know what

537
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: that is. It probably stems from having been switched at

538
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: birth in the hospital. That's the only explanation. All Right,

539
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back

540
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: and talk after this about the the horrific problem of

541
00:30:54,200 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: rape kit backlog and destruction right after this. It's all right,

542
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: so we told you the history of the kid, how

543
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: it works. Um, your ideal scenario for what you should

544
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: do if you're ever a victim. Um, And the great

545
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: ending to this story would be is uh and then

546
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: those kids go off and they all get tested and

547
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: they have great conviction rates and uh So sadly that

548
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: is not the case. Um, And this is all over

549
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: the news for years now, as it should be. But well,

550
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: first of all, this is what happens in the ideal scenario.

551
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: They do store this, it is tested in a DNA lab, uh,

552
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: and then it's checked against the CODIS the c O

553
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: d I S the Combined DNA Index system. That's the

554
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: database from the FBI of DNA profiles of bad people.

555
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: And uh if if their hit comes up, then you

556
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: have a pretty good chance then of of finding this person.

557
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: The other thing about COTIS is this, when you submit

558
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: a sample a DNA sample, the codis from a crime

559
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: like a sexual assault, and there's not a hit that sample,

560
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, we just go okay, sorry, codis cannot my

561
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: sample back Like that sample stays there and so future

562
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: detective to say they have a suspect or somebody who

563
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: comes in and as a matter of routine, they run

564
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: the suspects DNA, which I think like just a matter

565
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: of course. Now, when you're charged with a crime, they

566
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: swab your cheek and then run it through codis that

567
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: DNA maybe hit and all of a sudden, this thing

568
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: like you got caught robbing somebody's house, but now you're

569
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: up for a rape charge from two years ago because

570
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: your DNA was entered through this rape kit. So even

571
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: if you don't get a hit, that doesn't mean that

572
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: there's not going to be a conviction. That's not like

573
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: the rape kit was all for naught. Yeah, you know

574
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: for sure. Um, Sadly that's not the way it always works. Um.

575
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: In the two thousands, there started to be some uh,

576
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: there were some reporters digging around, found a story and

577
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: found out that there are tens of thousands of rape

578
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: kits all over the country sitting in warehouses and sitting

579
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: on shelves for years and years and years untested. It

580
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: was so bad, chuck, that they became known as the backlog.

581
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: Like some dating back to the nineties where they just,

582
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: like you said, sitting in warehouses untested. And at first

583
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: when I think some reporters started digging this up and

584
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: found out like, whoa, this is not okay. How how

585
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: widespread is this and started looking around and found it's

586
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 1: like everywhere, and some some towns are worse than others.

587
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: Like acron Ohio had something like three thousand, I think

588
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: two thousand kits in acron Ohio alone, so um Detroit had. Sorry, Acrony,

589
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: didn't mean to put more on you than than you had.

590
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: I was confusing you with Phoenix. Phoenix had three thousand kits,

591
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: Dallas had four thousand, Memphis has twelve thousand, and in

592
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: Detroit a few years back, somebody wandered into a police

593
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: storage facility and was like, oh, there's eleven thousand untested

594
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: rape kits that have just been that we just forgot

595
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: we had. Here's the problem with that. There's a couple

596
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: of problems with it. But the first one, Chuck, is

597
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: that every single one of those kits represents a person

598
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: who found the wherewithal to drag himself for herself to

599
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: the e er and go through this hour's long procedure

600
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: and suffer a second violation basically is what it feels

601
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: like in order to give the cops the evidence that

602
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: they need, and the cops didn't even bother to send

603
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: it to the lab. That is a third violation. Yeah.

604
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: And the other problem is that this could be like

605
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: while they're sitting in there. Uh and this often, sadly

606
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: is the cases that these people commit more sexual assaults,

607
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: so they could be behind bars. Yeah, in Detroit. So

608
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: there's eleven thousand untested kits they found. Let's say that

609
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: each one was a different perpetrator. The recitative recitativism, that's

610
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: a bone headward. The recitativism rate they think for sexual

611
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: offenders um of sexual assault is between five and thirty

612
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: over a fifteen year period. So if those kits sat

613
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: there untested for fifteen years, that means that an additional

614
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty to thirty five hundred and twenty

615
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: rapes were carried out by the same people whose DNA

616
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: was in those kits untested. Yeah, So that's that's unacceptable, right,

617
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: And as a result, Congress is like, here's a hundred

618
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars to get rid of the backlog.

619
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: That should solve it. It did. It helped a lot, right,

620
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: It got the labs going and everything like that. Right.

621
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: The problem is is it funded labs. That's what everybody

622
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: said was, well, the labs are overworked. What are you

623
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: gonna do? So they got more technicians, they got more labs,

624
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: and the backlog got worked through in a lot of

625
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: cases in Detroit in particular, um the prosecutor, one of

626
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: the prosecutors there named Kim Worthy, who's another hashtag hero

627
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: of this story, has been like, this number is going down.

628
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: We're going through those kids. And it's systematically and methodically.

629
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: That's what it takes. It takes someone or a body

630
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: of people like specific not just like throwing money at something,

631
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: but like specifically following up on the ground. Right. Okay,

632
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: so the funding went towards the labs, but that left

633
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 1: another half of this this formula, which is a big one,

634
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: the cops. So this backlog got moved through the labs.

635
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that the cops followed up on

636
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: the results and including cases where there were hits and codis.

637
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: Later later research by hoarders found that like a lot

638
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: of these cases in the backlog that got work through

639
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: hadn't been followed up on. Yeah, which is another problem. Yeah,

640
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: there have been some federal guidelines laid down since then, specifically, UH,

641
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: the Safer Act of two thousand thirteen sexual Assault Forensic

642
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: Evidence Reporting. Different states have new laws in place. UM,

643
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: Like in New York State, it is law now that

644
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: requires kits to be sent in within ten days of

645
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: collection and tested by the lab within three months. UM.

646
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: And they set up a timeline for processing backlog kits. UM.

647
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 1: But it's you know, it's still depends on what city

648
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: you live in and what state you live in, because

649
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: it's still happens. Um. It still happens a lot. It

650
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: says here in two thousand eleven report from the National

651
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: Institute of Justice, UM, eighteen percent of all unsolved rapes

652
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: between two thousand two and two thousand and seven involved

653
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 1: this kind of evidence that had never been processed eighteen

654
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: per sent YEP. And so in the cops defense here,

655
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: they're they're they're basically saying, most of them are saying, Okay,

656
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: so great, that was great. You guys funded the lab.

657
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: We are still overworked and understaffed and out of room,

658
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: out of literally to store these kids. So here is

659
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: another thing, right, so that all this stuff went. All

660
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: this focus went on the backlog. As a matter of fact,

661
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: the third hashtag hero from the story is morriska Hargete

662
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: from Law and Order SVU. Just from doing Law and

663
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: Order s VU. Her eyes were so open to this

664
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: whole backlog problem that she started a foundation called the

665
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: Joyful Heart Foundation that is basically dedicated to getting rid

666
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: of the rape kit backlog. Yeah. Well, actually that's a

667
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: larger foundation, but within that is in the backlog dot org. Um,

668
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: and here's what you can do everyone, since it is

669
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: uh national awareness month. First put on something to you,

670
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: something toal On April two, go to end the backlog

671
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: dot org and click on take action and there are

672
00:38:58,560 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: a number of things you can do. But at the

673
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: autom there's a donation button, and uh donate. I set

674
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: up a monthly today that as far as I'm concerned,

675
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: I'll donate monthly till the day I die, which hopefully

676
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: it's a long time, a long long time hashtag long time. Yeah,

677
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: But just go to in the backlog dot org. If

678
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 1: you don't have money to give, there are other things

679
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,479
Speaker 1: you can do under the take action banner for sure.

680
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: So um the back in two thousand and sixteen, while

681
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: everybody was talking about the backlog, worrying about the backlog,

682
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: doing something about the backlog. Um, the fayette Lle, North

683
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: Carolina Chief of Police held a press conference and said, hey, um,

684
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: the city attorneys told me not to do this, but um,

685
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: I feel morally a moral responsibility to tell the public this.

686
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: But we destroyed about three hundred untested rape kits in

687
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: cases where the statute of limitations hadn't run out. Yeah,

688
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: this isn't sitting on a shelf, this isn't untested, this

689
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: is We threw them away. They were incinerated. That evidence

690
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: has gone forever and it was never sent off to

691
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: a lab and the statute of limitations was was not

692
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: up in in these cases. Um. And that was huge.

693
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: That was a big, big deal. And he committed his town,

694
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: his police department to going through all those cases, contacting

695
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: the victims and seeing if they could still build a

696
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: case for all and they made it a priority. But

697
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: it opened Pandora's box around the country, and CNN got

698
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: a speculum of their own and started crawling around law

699
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies all over the country and saying, Hey, have

700
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: you guys ever done that? Have you ever destroyed rape

701
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: kits what's your policy for that? Um? Uh, when's the

702
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: last time you did it where any of them still

703
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: within the set of limitations and they found out that

704
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: it happened a lot actually, like a lot um police

705
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: to make to make room in evidence rooms, they will

706
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: destroy rape kits. Um. Some of them have official policies

707
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: in place. Some of them is just a detective deciding

708
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: that the case isn't going anywhere and we'll say, yeah,

709
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: you can destroy that rape kit. Um. Sometimes it's a

710
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: misunderstanding of what the statute of limitations is. Yes, but

711
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: these kids have never gone on, have never gone have

712
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 1: never been tested, and never will be tested. That evidence

713
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: is gone forever. And that is even worse than the backlog.

714
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: Everyone is concluded and I think rightfully. So yeah, this uh,

715
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: And like you mentioned earlier, just having the stuff entered

716
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: into codus is huge because let's say you do nab

717
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: someone and it turns out that they it comes up

718
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: with like six hits from sexual assaults over the years,

719
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: like I mean prison sentences aside the the value that

720
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: that has for a victim to know that that person

721
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: was caught and is finally going to pay for their crime.

722
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: Is I can't be measured, you know, right, And and

723
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: also like if you go through this procedure and you

724
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: you still don't get a hit in COTUS, but that

725
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: DNA evidence is in codis this if this perpetrator gets

726
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: caught down the line, you've contributed to a much stronger

727
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: conviction against them and probably a bigger sentence because you've

728
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: helped establish a pattern of criminal behavior. And in fact,

729
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: that's how they call the Golden State killer I believe

730
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: is from this backlog of rape kids being put through

731
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: and that guy popped up. I think they got him

732
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: for like twelve or thirteen rapes um during his serial

733
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: killer career through this backlog being moved through, and that

734
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: opportunity is lost if you just destroy this evidence untested. Secondly,

735
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: it also gives it ruins any opportunity for a wrongfully

736
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: convicted person who is convicted previously before DNA evidence was used.

737
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: If you destroy this evidence, it may it removes that

738
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: possibility as well. So that I think the Justice Department

739
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: UM issued some guidelines that say, uh, you should hold

740
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: rape kit evidence for a minimum of fifty years or

741
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: the statute of limitations, whichever comes first. UM and then

742
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: that's that, and everybody said, that's really great, but we

743
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: really only legally have to listen to our states guidelines

744
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: which are all over the place. Yeah, I wonder if

745
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: any kind of like penalty and accountability would help. Well,

746
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: I think CNN, like crawling up everybody's but is helping. Sure, Sure,

747
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: I think it's UM it's kind of opened some people's eyes.

748
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: And that was the same thing that that brought so

749
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: much attention to the backlog, So hopefully the same attention

750
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: will come to this too, and we can start funding

751
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: police departments around the country to like carry the carry

752
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: out the legwork on. Yes, UM, I just have one

753
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: more thing. If you just and I imagine you could

754
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: do this in any given week or day now, if

755
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: you just type in rape kit and hit news on

756
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: your search engine, Uh, many articles will come up like

757
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: that day of of cases like this. UM. Just today

758
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: there was one Austin Police department. UM could potentially reopen

759
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: dozens of rape investigations after getting a backlog results from

760
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: a backlog of twenty almost twenty seven untested kits UM.

761
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: I believe they got a grant from New York. I'm

762
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: not sure how that happened, but they got like a

763
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: million bucks from a grant from Manhattan to Austin, Texas. Like,

764
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: we got a lot of money. You want some of

765
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: it Austin maybe, But that allowed them to test like

766
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: almost twenty seven kits. Another story at Tucson, man was

767
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: convicted of raping seven women over a twelve year period

768
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: um after police received a grant to test rape kits

769
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: and it said and it changed a mindset over which

770
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: kits get tested. And then Orlando, Florida man is now

771
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: in jail today. He fled the state and uh I

772
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 1: found him in Puerto Rico. And once again, this was

773
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: a long unsolved rape case that they you know, they

774
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: finally cracked open that kit tested it in am. This

775
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: guy comes up and they got him in Puerto Rico,

776
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: still a territory, dufus. If you want to know more

777
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: about rape kits, just do what Chuck said and search

778
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: it on your favorite search engines news. Okay, yeah, go

779
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: to in the backlog dot org for sure. Even better,

780
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: just poke around there for a while and put on

781
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: something teal yes, And in the meantime it's time for listener. Man,

782
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I have anything toal. You can borrow

783
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: the sweatshirt. Okay, it's meant but it's awfully close. Yeah,

784
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not good with my colors. Family thinks

785
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: I'm partially color blind. I think you might be too,

786
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: might be. Um, So I'm gonna call this a s

787
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: m R. We've we've been get a lot of follow

788
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: up on this from people that you get that tingly

789
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: feeling and people like me that throw up in their

790
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: mouth a little bit. Hey, guys, been listening for a

791
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: long time. I'm always intrigued by the topics. I'm a crafter,

792
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: and your show always keeps my mind moving, so my

793
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: creativity can flow in the background. Uhi, that's the ideal

794
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: situation crafting. Yeah. I seriously thought I was the only

795
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: person who experience a SMR. Friends I've talked to about

796
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: it in the past and come crazy. Nowhere around here

797
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: knows anything about it. I love the feeling I get

798
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: when I can activate the sensation. The best way I

799
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: describe it is like for me getting goose bumps inside

800
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: my skull. M it's pretty good. That's a great one.

801
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: I wish I knew what that felt like. Yeah, I

802
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: do too, you know, I am do that. I want

803
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: this sensation. I have it. The first time I found

804
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: something that triggered it. I was working in a small

805
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: office in the basement of a hospital. It was getting repainted,

806
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: and the sound of the paint roller and the people

807
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: near me and the office set it off. First I

808
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: thought it was strange, but I really enjoyed it as

809
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: our office started to grow again. Wearing headphones on a

810
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,959
Speaker 1: regular basis and listen to the entire collection of Bob

811
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: Ross painting, which I famously or not famously, but I

812
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: got to sleep that sometimes on Netflix. So you're not

813
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: you don't have a problem with Bob Ross. I don't know.

814
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: I love it, very soothing to me, but I don't.

815
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he's a SMR. Is he? Yeah, yeah,

816
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: he's We didn't say that in the episode. I didn't

817
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, he's like a legendary a s MR

818
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: trigger for some people. Uh, legendary, all right. I listened

819
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: to the entire collection and found the soft sound of

820
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: his voice and stiff bristles on the canvas caused the

821
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: same reaction. Helped me greatly with my anxiety in general,

822
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaker 1: stress in the office. Actually, I even created a playlist

823
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: of people painting would listen to it when I was

824
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 1: stuck in traffic. As I'm writing, I'm listening to your

825
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: episode and yes, swallowing sounds can give me the tingles

826
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: to Bob Ross swallows a lot when he's painting and

827
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:44,479
Speaker 1: his mike is on his collar. Guys, what the swallowing? Yeah,

828
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: now you might have to have headphones on for that. Okay,

829
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, guys, you have changed my life. Thanks

830
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 1: so much. Goose bump headed Candice uh tally or Kali

831
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: is in there. Yeah, that might be her her certain

832
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: name you got uh uh yeah, Bear and Mermaid art

833
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: dot Com. I'm gonna shout out your craft site. It's

834
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: like jewelry and things. It's not barn Mermaid art that

835
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: I could see. I got you. It's just a whimsical name.

836
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: Um yeah. There's like it's something about painting like slows

837
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: people down. Like when you're painting and you're talking, you're

838
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: just that much calmer. No one paints fast. There's this

839
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: dude like if like some some artists will paint, do

840
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: Instagram live and paint. Um And I don't know if

841
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: you remember him or not, but the um Gregory Jacobsen.

842
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: He was the artist who came backstage at our Chicago

843
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: show last time. Okay, he did this for years, but

844
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: for a year he had like some show coming and

845
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: he would just sit there and paint, and you started

846
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: watching him originally, and then she got me into it

847
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: and it was just him painting. He wasn't even in

848
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: the shot normally, it's just his hand painting, but he'd

849
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: be talking about what he's doing and maybe answering some questions.

850
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: And I never really thought about it before, but it

851
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: is like super laid back. Something about painting makes you slow,

852
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: just slows you down. Well you know what you swallow

853
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: loudly you never hear from a painter, and artists like

854
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: you gotta go knock this painting app right, let me

855
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: put some some players on there. Or maybe I don't know.

856
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: I guess you could be under a deadline, and he

857
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: was under a deadline farmer. He had some huge show

858
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: coming up, and I guess then he decided, well, I

859
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: think I'll add this extra complication to this, to this

860
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: crazy deadline. But yeah, it was interesting. Thanks a lot,

861
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: Candice uh nay Um. If you want to get in

862
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865
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Speaker 1: go to our website Stuff you Should Know dot com. UM,

868
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Speaker 1: fashioned email to stuff Podcast the House of Works dot com.

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