1
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:12,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide?

2
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee.

3
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories.

4
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears.

5
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that

6
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower

7
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,640
Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness

8
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:53,280
Speaker 1: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health.

9
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world,

10
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: one story at a time. Ti Hi, I'm Tony Mantur.

11
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not May Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.

12
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: Welcome to our special event, crafting justice empowering autism and

13
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 1: mental health through legislation. Joining us today is Senator Cindy Friedman,

14
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 1: a dedicated public servant representing Massachusetts fourth Middlesex District. Elected

15
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, Senator Freedman has emerged as a leading

16
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,040
Speaker 1: voice in the Massachusetts Senate, especially in the fight to

17
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 1: address serious mental illness and improve mental health care access.

18
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 1: As co Chair of the Joint Committee on Healthcare Financing.

19
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: She has drafted and championed transformative legislation, including bills to

20
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: expand mental health parity, increase access to care, and address

21
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 1: systemic gaps and treatment for severe mental illness. Her commitment

22
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 1: to compassionate policy solutions is reshaping the Commonwealths approach to

23
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: mental health. She brings a wealth of knowledge and we're

24
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,559
Speaker 1: thrilled to have a join us. Thanks for joinings today. Sure,

25
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: what was it that led you to get into advocacy

26
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 1: for those with serious mental illness?

27
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Well, there are two parts of it. One is, we

28
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 2: in our family have had some experience with serious mental illness.

29
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: So I have experience with certain types of mental illness.

30
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 2: And it's really really hard. You can't change somebody. You can't.

31
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 2: You know, you individually can't make them better. This is

32
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,640
Speaker 2: an illness, right, but it sometimes it helped me to

33
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 2: figure out, even if I couldn't help our family member,

34
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 2: is there something I could do to make the system better.

35
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 2: I remember when I started working for the senator whose

36
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 2: set I took because he passed away. I remember the

37
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,919
Speaker 2: very beginning, I was looking at something and I went

38
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 2: into him and I said you know, mental health treatment

39
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,360
Speaker 2: in this state sucks and we should do something about it.

40
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,120
Speaker 2: And he said, okay, what do you want to do?

41
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,799
Speaker 2: So we got involved in understanding the system and how

42
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 2: it was working and how it was not working, and

43
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,119
Speaker 2: I think those two pieces led me to my interest.

44
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, you did the Mental Health ABC

45
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: Act two point zero correct. Yeah, yeah, Since it's been

46
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 1: passed and now that it has been implemented, what are

47
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 1: some of the changes that you've seen come from it?

48
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 2: What I have seen change is access has changed, and

49
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 2: there appears to be a lot more use of mental

50
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: health services, and there's more of an awareness of mental

51
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,920
Speaker 2: illness and mental health services, and those are the big changes.

52
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm the share of healthcare financing so in the Senate,

53
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 2: and so we look at cost trends and you know,

54
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 2: what are the drivers of healthcare And if you look

55
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 2: at what's driving healthcare in Massachusetts, one of the pieces

56
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 2: is outpatient behavioral health. Those were making it a lot

57
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: more accessible.

58
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 1: Now that the bill has been an effect for some time,

59
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 1: you've observed it, You've seen how people are engaging with it.

60
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 1: What adjustments or improvements would you suggest to better support

61
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: those who might need the assistance that this bill addresses well.

62
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,919
Speaker 2: I think reimbursement still is an issue, the rates of

63
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: reimbursement and the funny, weird ways that we reimburse So

64
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 2: there's supposedly parody, right, but there's still a really lack

65
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,920
Speaker 2: of parody between medical services and well physical services and

66
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 2: behavioral services. There's still a parity difference. We still pay

67
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,599
Speaker 2: much more for you know, specialty care in physical or

68
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,719
Speaker 2: illnesses that you can treat with a pill or treat

69
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 2: with a procedure than there is with you know, treating

70
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 2: mental illness. So I see that, and then I all

71
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 2: also see that there's really problematic ways that we will

72
00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 2: pay for things. Right, So we don't pay you know,

73
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 2: we pay for crisis interventions more than we did before.

74
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 2: We pay for inpatient but we don't pay as well

75
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,279
Speaker 2: for ongoing care, which is what stops people from going

76
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 2: into crisis and needing intensive care. And I think the

77
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 2: other piece that I've seen, and this is more general,

78
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 2: and I just don't know exactly how to deal with this.

79
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 2: So much of what is driving the illnesses that we

80
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 2: see is trauma. I don't see really how we are

81
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 2: addressing trauma in a really efficient and meaningful way so

82
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 2: that people, over time don't get sicker and sicker.

83
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what about AOT. Does Massachusetts have an AOT

84
00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 1: law in place yet?

85
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,720
Speaker 2: Outpatient assistant treatment? Yes, no, we don't. We're the only

86
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,279
Speaker 2: what are we two left that don't?

87
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 1: So in your opinion, what do you think needs to

88
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 1: be done in order to get AOT in place in

89
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:10,159
Speaker 1: your state?

90
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 2: I think there needs to be a reevaluation of the

91
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,799
Speaker 2: lawsuits that are preventing it from happening, because the whole

92
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,839
Speaker 2: understanding of mental illness and treatment for mental illness has

93
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,000
Speaker 2: evolved over time. Certainly the understanding of mental illness has

94
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 2: evolved over time, and when there were court cases that

95
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 2: were think in the very early eighties that basically do

96
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,160
Speaker 2: not allow other than a judge to determine whether somebody

97
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 2: can be treated against basically treated against their will. And

98
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,640
Speaker 2: it's very very hard to do that in Massachusetts. So

99
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 2: you need a substitute judgment where the judge says, this

100
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 2: person is incompetent of deciding, so I will decide for them.

101
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 2: And then it's very limited around how much treatment and

102
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 2: how the kind the treatment that you can receive, and

103
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,440
Speaker 2: they're you know, what we learn and know now is

104
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: that there are a very small set of people whose

105
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 2: illness prevents them from knowing that they're ill. And so

106
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 2: if you don't know that you're ill, and you continue

107
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 2: to have these horrible symptoms, you either end up in

108
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 2: jail or if you're lucky, you end up in an

109
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 2: emergency room, which then puts you into maybe treatment or

110
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 2: you know, maybe impatient setting for three days, whereupon you

111
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,119
Speaker 2: can you know, check yourself out. And what we see

112
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 2: is that there are again a very small but important

113
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 2: set of people who can't be treated because of this

114
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 2: cycle of you know, or inability for somebody to say,

115
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: look at this person, please, before we have before we

116
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 2: put them in jail, please look at them and determine

117
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 2: whether they're able to take care of themselves.

118
00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard that the biggest hospital or the mentally

119
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 1: ill in the country is the La County Prison.

120
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

121
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 1: Yes, we definitely have to find a way for that

122
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 1: to change. How do you get your point across to

123
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: your fellow senators that if they can be treated, if

124
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: they can be diverted away from the judicial system, then

125
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: a very high percentage of those that go in front

126
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: of a judge and is diverted to a better facility

127
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 1: will not show up in front of that judge again.

128
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 1: By this happening, not only does it save the court

129
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 1: it's time, but it saves the taxpayers hundreds of thousands

130
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 1: of dollars, if not millions of dollars. How do we

131
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 1: get that point across to them that there is a

132
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: better way.

133
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 2: It's a hard sell for a number of reasons. People

134
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 2: who have this kind of illness do not present themselves

135
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 2: as poor. You know, it's not pretty. Sometimes it's amusing

136
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,840
Speaker 2: to people, but often it's scary, right, and so we

137
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 2: quickly demonize them. So that's the first thing. You're not

138
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,080
Speaker 2: dealing with puppies and kittens here, right, which people seem

139
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,080
Speaker 2: to care more about than human beings. So I think

140
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 2: it's really and I understand very much the concern that

141
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 2: once you allow people to be treated against their will,

142
00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 2: all of the pictures of all the women one hundred

143
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 2: years ago whose husband decided they didn't like them and

144
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 2: they stuck them in an insane asylum, right, I mean,

145
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 2: that's still really to a lot of people, that's really

146
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 2: or you know, a horrible you know, we closed all

147
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 2: of our mental health inpatient hospules because many of them

148
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 2: are horrible. So it's really getting through that. And I

149
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 2: think that if you look at the bill that we filed,

150
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,800
Speaker 2: there's really nothing that happens to you as the person

151
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 2: who we are trying to get treatment. Nothing happens to

152
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 2: you ultimately if you don't follow the court, But it

153
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 2: gives everyone else an option to get you to a

154
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,679
Speaker 2: place where you are where there's going to be more

155
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 2: treatment available. Right. So if I'm a parent and I

156
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 2: want to I want to get my very very psychotic

157
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 2: son assisted out patient treatment, I go to the court

158
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 2: and petition the court to require the least restrictive services

159
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 2: for this person, right, And if the court says yes,

160
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 2: what's great about it is the state then has to say, okay,

161
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 2: we have to provide these services. Right. But if the

162
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 2: patient in that case doesn't follow the treatment plan, all

163
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,559
Speaker 2: that can happen is that people can bring them back

164
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,080
Speaker 2: to court, but nothing is you know, we're not going

165
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 2: to put you in jail. But there's real evidence that

166
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 2: says a black robe effect is real for people when

167
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 2: they're in the middle of a psychosis. So that's kind

168
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 2: of what I think we have to start explaining to people. Look,

169
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 2: this is a tool, but ultimately you're not going to

170
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 2: be punished if you don't do this right.

171
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,960
Speaker 1: I was speaking with a gentleman one time about his

172
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 1: son that was going through psychosis. He had been in

173
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,680
Speaker 1: a situation where he had a conflict with the police

174
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 1: at one time, and he was very afraid of him.

175
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 1: Later on, he was in a situation where he was

176
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: walking down the street no clothes on, thinking he was

177
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 1: completely invisible, and he had another run in with the police.

178
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 2: Right.

179
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 1: It turns out the police that came to the complaint

180
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: was really good. They looked at him, asked him what

181
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 1: he was doing, and his response was, you can see me,

182
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: So they said yeah. Then they said, why don't you

183
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,280
Speaker 1: get in the back of the car and we'll take

184
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: you to a place that can help you. And because

185
00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 1: he has been handcuffed before, so he said, don't put

186
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 1: handcuff saw me, which they didn't. On the way to

187
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: the hospital, they asked him if he liked music. He

188
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 1: said yes, They turned on the radio. He got a

189
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 1: chance to listen to the music he liked, and they

190
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 1: finally got to the hospital. At that point in time,

191
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 1: the doctor looked at him and said, there's nothing I

192
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: can do. He's not a threat to himself, he's not

193
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: a threat to others. So the policeman said, okay, where

194
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 1: do you live? And the doctor asked him why he

195
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 1: asked that, he said, because I'm going to drop him

196
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 1: off and put him in your place, because evidently he's

197
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: not a problem. So the doctor actually took him in

198
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: and they were able to help him for a short

199
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 1: period of time. He was very fortunate. We don't usually

200
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: run across people that are like that. So number one,

201
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 1: how do we get more information out there to help

202
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 1: create that kind of atmosphere. And number two, we have

203
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,080
Speaker 1: to get the doctors to realize that, yeah, he might

204
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: not be a threat to himself or others right now. Wow,

205
00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,199
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that five or ten minutes later

206
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,560
Speaker 1: that he couldn't be. We need to find a way

207
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 1: to help them so that they don't become a problem.

208
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 2: Right Well, first of all, there are incredibly effective programs

209
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,800
Speaker 2: here in Massachusetts and maybe another place, but we've developed

210
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 2: and sustained a corresponder model where if somebody is you know,

211
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,840
Speaker 2: if the police get called about an incident and somebody

212
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 2: seems to be having a psychotic episode or something, a

213
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,080
Speaker 2: police officer and a social worker will go out to

214
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,839
Speaker 2: that place or that house, and so the police are

215
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 2: trained not only in protecting, but in de escalating. And

216
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 2: then you also have somebody there that really understands is

217
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 2: trained in dealing with people who are in the middle

218
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 2: of psychosis. And this I can't tell you how effective

219
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,080
Speaker 2: this has been. Every year we have police chiefs, there

220
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 2: are these annual legislature days and they come in and

221
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 2: they tell what their priorities, and this past year, every

222
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 2: their number one priority was to keep the co responder

223
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 2: model because it really works for them and we can't

224
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 2: expect our police to be, you know, psychologists, and that's

225
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 2: not fair, right, Yeah, that's right. We can train them,

226
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 2: and you know, good training is really important, and de

227
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,120
Speaker 2: escalation is the techniques are really important. But having that person,

228
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 2: having that team, those two makes such a difference. And

229
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 2: then the other piece is is that we're starting this

230
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, but other places have done it, like especially

231
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 2: Breer County, where they have these restoration centers where the

232
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 2: police or a EMT or any first responder or anybody

233
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 2: can bring somebody who's in the middle of a psychosis

234
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 2: to a place where they immediately get somebody is there,

235
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,920
Speaker 2: and they can de escalate and they can figure out

236
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 2: what this person needs. And those are really really effective too,

237
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 2: right because the police get really frustrated because they take

238
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 2: this person who they know is sick to the emergency

239
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,320
Speaker 2: room and then the doctor says, are you a threat

240
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 2: to yourself? Are you a threat to others?

241
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: No?

242
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 2: Goodbye, because it's the emergency room, you know. So having

243
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 2: a different way to get these people into a health

244
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 2: care system versus a criminal justice or judicial system is

245
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 2: really important.

246
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with Sheriff Buckley down in Barnstable County?

247
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, she's Brand News.

248
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: I had her on my podcast, And of course in

249
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: Barnstable County, the sheriff doesn't do patrol. They take care

250
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 1: of the jail system. She has implemented a system to

251
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: where she's helping the people that are incarcerated so that

252
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: once they get through their time, that they don't come back.

253
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 2: Oh that's true.

254
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: So in her area, it's kind of like we were

255
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: talking about the LA prison being the hospital. Well that's

256
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 1: what's happening here because of her success. How do we

257
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 1: build on that so that these people that do wind

258
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,840
Speaker 1: up incarce rated can get help not just in one spot,

259
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 1: but all across your state.

260
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,320
Speaker 2: So you should talk to well, there's two things. First

261
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 2: of all, you should absolutely talk to Peter Contusion, Okay,

262
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 2: because he's the sheriff of Middlesex and he's been doing

263
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 2: this longer than anybody. He has an amazing understanding and

264
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: commitment to treating people with mental illness. I mean, really,

265
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 2: he walks the walk and he's done it for a

266
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 2: very very long time. He's been involved in this. So

267
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 2: I think Middlesex sheriff Department in the Middlesex County, which

268
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,560
Speaker 2: is Bill Aurica, is really a model. It's really through

269
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 2: the bully pulpit and encouragement because the way that our

270
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 2: sheriffs are set up in Massachusetts is they're really independent.

271
00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 2: They get elected. So forcing people to do it is

272
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 2: kind of unless we change the structure of the relationship

273
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,479
Speaker 2: of the county, corrections and the state is kind of hard.

274
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 2: But there are more and more people that are starting

275
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 2: to look at this because it is I think the

276
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,159
Speaker 2: last time we saw it was like over seventy percent

277
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 2: of the people in the Middlesex County prison was they

278
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,439
Speaker 2: had I think over seventy five percent of them had

279
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,720
Speaker 2: an open mental health case.

280
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is unfortunately a big number with all the

281
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,920
Speaker 1: technology that's going on in the country. Massachusetts has a

282
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 1: lot of cities, yet they have a lot of rural

283
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 1: country area that leaves a lot of people underserved. So

284
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 1: how do you, as a senator find ways to legislate

285
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,919
Speaker 1: not only for the cities like Boston, but for the

286
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 1: smaller areas that struggle with budget and because of that

287
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 1: have a hard time taking care of their people. How

288
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 1: do you handle that so that those that are underserved

289
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,479
Speaker 1: can get help too.

290
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,439
Speaker 2: Well, it's money, right, very true, down to money. Do

291
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 2: we have the money to implement and sustain and we don't.

292
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: It's very very hard, you know, to provide these kinds

293
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 2: of services, first of all because it's rural, and it's

294
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 2: hard when it's rural because people are so far apart.

295
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 2: Workforce is an issue. How do we get the workforce?

296
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 2: And then how do we sustain it with what money

297
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 2: do we use? Right? So, for better or worse, money

298
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 2: tends to go where the most people are. But I

299
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 2: think we can definitely do a better job because there

300
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 2: are definitely areas once you get west of Worcester that

301
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 2: you could put something in place and probably have enough

302
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 2: of a geographical service area that you could support it,

303
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: but it will be very expensive and we just don't

304
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 2: We don't spend their money on that.

305
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: Do you have funding opportunities available for telehealth or digital

306
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 1: health solutions focused on non physical digital methods of providing

307
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 1: healthcare support. It won't be the same as a one

308
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: on one meeting, but at least if there's an issue there,

309
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 1: hopefully something can be done so it doesn't go into

310
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: full blown psychosis.

311
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do have behavioral health telehealth parity, which you know,

312
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 2: the insurers hate. They say it's supposed to quote cost

313
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 2: less telehealth. Well, it does cost less because that person

314
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: doesn't end up in the emergency room, so it does

315
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 2: cost less. So we push telehealth pretty hard. And then

316
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 2: we have set up these community behavioral health centers and

317
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 2: they are across the state and they have a front door,

318
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,719
Speaker 2: you know, an open door policy where anybody can you know,

319
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 2: come in and get services or get evaluated if it's

320
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,880
Speaker 2: an emergency. So we have started to set up a

321
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 2: more geographically disperse system.

322
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 1: Now you also serve as co chair of the Joint

323
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,959
Speaker 1: Committee on Healthcare Financing. Correct, how does that intersect of

324
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 1: mental health care and pharmaceutical affordability in Massachusetts. Can you

325
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 1: expand on that sum as to how that works.

326
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 2: So we get we are responsible for all of the

327
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: legislation that is filed within the healthcare space. So there's

328
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 2: mental health and substance use recovery. That's a committee and

329
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: they hear bills and then ninety percent and ninety five

330
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 2: percent of the time those bills that they hear and

331
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 2: they vote favorably to move along, come to our committee, okay,

332
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: And same with pharma. We get all the pharma bills.

333
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 1: How do you see the role of pharmacies evolving to

334
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: ensure people can access and afford the medications they need

335
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: to manage their conditions, stabilize their health, and of course

336
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: improve their quality of life.

337
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 2: Well, again, we have mental health parity in this state

338
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 2: and we've got pretty strong laws. So if an insurer

339
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: has on their formulay something that is the equivalent of

340
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 2: a medication for another condition and then not supposed to

341
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 2: be available, right, the problem is you know, like you

342
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 2: you have high blood pressure, right, so you take lippiator

343
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 2: or you or you have high cholesterol, you take lipitur.

344
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, that's right.

345
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: There's no such thing in behavioral or mental health. Maybe,

346
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: you know, maybe a drug will work, maybe it won't.

347
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: Maybe you need to take three drugs. Maybe it's a cocktail,

348
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? And the way you

349
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 2: figure that out is you try it and you see

350
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 2: if it works. Right. And so insurance companies don't like that.

351
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

352
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 2: You know, they don't like that. They want to know,

353
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 2: you know, will the clause are ill work? I don't know.

354
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: We have detroy it is lithium right for this? Do

355
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 2: they need lithium and depicoat like you know, maybe it's

356
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,479
Speaker 2: just held on. I mean, they just you don't know,

357
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: and not from anybody's like malice or misuse. It's just

358
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: everyone's different. This is an illness where it's very very individual.

359
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 1: Yes, I get that. I have had the opportunity to

360
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: speak with several different people. They have been able to

361
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 1: find the correct medication. They've come out of it. They're

362
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: living a good life. It's just great. But they lost

363
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: ten years doing this right.

364
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: So, and we have not yet broken the code to

365
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: you know, to schizophrenia.

366
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: And you know, I've talked with several senators and legislators

367
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: across the country. Now, are you full time or are

368
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: you full time part time as a senator?

369
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: We're full time. Massachusetts is full time.

370
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: You're full time. Okay, Well that's great. So that said,

371
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: what does your constituency look like? What are you getting

372
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: for feedback from them on serious mental.

373
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: Illness in what way? Like? What what do you mean.

374
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: When they make appointments to come to talk to you

375
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: they are looking for change? Is they looking for help?

376
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: What's some of the things that they might be looking for,

377
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 1: things that you might have looked at or or other

378
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: things that you might say, hey, this is a good idea.

379
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: Is there anything that they bring to you in their

380
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: meetings that just may stand out from others?

381
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're access, access and access and insurance, you know,

382
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: access and like especially for parent like parents, I can't

383
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: get my child here, my child is sitting in the

384
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 2: emergency room for forty days, or you know, my child

385
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: had an incident in their school and they want to

386
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: kick them out. Now, well, what's wrong with your child? Well,

387
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: they have you know, they're autistic, and they're seriously autistic.

388
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: And one of the things they do is they lash

389
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 2: out and they're not being bad, they're just suffering from

390
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 2: what's going on. So I hear a lot of that.

391
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 2: I get a lot of that, And for a very

392
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: long time, I just got lots and lots of cales

393
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 2: of like my child can't be placed, they can't find

394
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 2: a place, this person won't pay that person. So it's

395
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 2: really a lack of access to the right treatment and

396
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: to treatment. You know that. What I see is that

397
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: this treatment is not one and done. And as much

398
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: as you want it to be, and as much as

399
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: the insurers want to treat it that way, that's not

400
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: how it works. And that's really what I think is

401
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 2: so difficult.

402
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, that's so true. Now I've heard of some

403
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: states that once diagnosed, they only have a certain time

404
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: that they can be in the hospital. Right then they

405
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: kick them out right then they go to another hospital

406
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: and it's like a bouncing ball. Do you have that

407
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: problem in Massachusetts?

408
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, the insurers will pay for X amount of days,

409
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: up to seven days, up to sometimes up to a

410
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: week sometimes, you know, but yeah, no, they determined the

411
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: length of treatment.

412
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: Then I've heard once they got kicked out of one hospital,

413
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: they would go to another hospital, spend the seven days

414
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: or whatever the timeframe may be. With that one get released,

415
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: then that hospital would find that unknowing to them, the

416
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: other hospital was first, and then that second hospital didn't

417
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: get paid. Have you run into that scenario at all?

418
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: No, I haven't run into situations where that were because

419
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: they thought they were being still in another hospital.

420
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: No, they were in another hospital, but that hospital couldn't.

421
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: Keep them right.

422
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: They were released from that first hospital. Then they went

423
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: to the second hospital, and because of that, across those

424
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: fine lines and ultimately that second hospital did not get paid.

425
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: Oh no, I have not heard of that, but I

426
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: would believe it if somebody told me it was true.

427
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: Sounds like insurance, you.

428
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,479
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, unfortunately it does. Now in closing, what do

429
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: you think the listener needs to hear that you think

430
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: is very important on legislation that you're trying to do,

431
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: legislation that you have done that hopefully will make a

432
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: better scenario for those living with serious mental illness.

433
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: This is an illness, and we have to constantly remember

434
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: that this is not a choice. It's an illness. And

435
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: this illness affects your ability to think in a way

436
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: that is, you know, the common way of thinking right,

437
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: the way we look at reality. This is an illness.

438
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: That challenges that right and remembering that it's an illness,

439
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: you know, working about against the stigma, and then requiring

440
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: that it be treated like an illness, you know, that

441
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: it is treated like anything else, heart disease, diabetes, any

442
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: other illness that people have, that it be treated that way.

443
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is good and so true. One last question,

444
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: any legislation or bills that you see coming up that

445
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: we might not have talked about that still can help

446
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: many many people. You know.

447
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: I think there's going to be a lot of pressure

448
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: on all of the strides that we've made in Massachusetts

449
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: because of what's happening at the federal level and how

450
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: much money we're losing with Medicaid and SAMSA and the

451
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: grants that have come from the federal government that have

452
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: been really really important to helping address mental illness. They're

453
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: all at risk, and that's what we're spending an inordinate

454
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: amount of our time trying to figure out.

455
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I hear from a lot of people. Well,

456
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: this has been great, great information, great conversation. I really

457
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

458
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: Sure, well, thanks for doing this.

459
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: Oh it's my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking time

460
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today.

461
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed

462
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: bringing it to you. If you know someone who has

463
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: a story to share, tell them to contact us at

464
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: whynomt World. One last thing, spread the word about why

465
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests that show you

466
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: are not alone in this world.