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Speaker 1: What's Up, Mets fans, Welcome back to another episode of

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Speaker 1: The Mets the Podcast.

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Speaker 2: God of course, some.

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Speaker 1: Offseason news to talk about teams in the division making

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Speaker 1: some moves in there, or I shouldn't say in the

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Speaker 1: division necessarily in the National League making some moves. There's

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Speaker 1: also a lot of rumors going around for some big

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Speaker 1: name players, and we've got the Hall of Fame ballot out.

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Speaker 1: A couple New York Mets first timers are on there.

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Speaker 1: We will talk about the entire Hall of Fame ballot,

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Speaker 1: go through it, tell you who we think is a

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famer isn't a Hall of Famer, And of

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Speaker 1: course talk about David Wright being on the ballot, which

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Speaker 1: is just so devastatingly sad. Otherwise, guys, you know the

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Speaker 1: drill from here. If you're listening to us, you like

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Speaker 1: what you're listening to, watching whatever it is. Follow us

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Speaker 1: on our social media at Mets Up on Twitter, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and TikTok. If you're looking for the YouTube version of

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Speaker 1: this video of the podcast, go to the New York

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Speaker 1: Mets YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: Go subscribe over there.

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Speaker 1: And if you're listening to us Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Odyssey,

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Speaker 1: drop us a rating, drop us a review, download and subscribe.

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Speaker 2: We appreciate you all. James. How you feeling after Thanksgiving?

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Speaker 2: I feel fine. I'm so ready to focus on baseball.

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Speaker 2: No other sports matter besides base We know that in

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Speaker 2: the world now that there's always baseball, Baseball's number one.

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Speaker 2: There's no there's no other sport that's even slightly relevant

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Speaker 2: in my entire life besides baseball and the Knicks and

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Speaker 2: the Rain.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, when are you gonna start

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Speaker 1: caring about Knicks? I know the Rangers is like February.

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Speaker 1: I'm in No, I don't care about the Rangers.

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Speaker 2: Most of the year. The Rangers look like one of

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Speaker 2: the best teams in hockey. We're gonna fox you back

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Speaker 2: this week, I think, so. I'm ready. I'm all in Rangers, Nicks, Mets.

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Speaker 2: There's no other sports he might can even think of

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Speaker 2: my life that's relevant. Only blue teams. Only blue teams. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: teams has to have blue like colors like green and

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Speaker 2: red are just left for the Christmas decorations. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't even want to think about the color red

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Speaker 1: with Uh, what's that other sport that we play in America?

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Speaker 2: What's it called? I honestly, can't. Are you thinking of soccer? Cricket? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, soccer, so that's the one. Yeah, it's not soccer.

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Speaker 1: It's too coold for soccer. No, not yet, not yet

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Speaker 1: for summer, summertime, summertime. But a lot of stuff going

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Speaker 1: on in the offseason. Thus far in Major League Baseball,

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Speaker 1: a couple of pitchers have left the board, a couple

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Speaker 1: of which I really didn't care about, one being Lancelid

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Speaker 1: going to the Cardinals because I just I don't care

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Speaker 1: about lance lind at all.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you don't either. Lancelon's funny. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: can't believe you started with Lancelant after all this and

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Speaker 2: just like left me here talk about Lancelot. I don't know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to. Lancelon's probably so excited to go back

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Speaker 2: to the Cardinals, a team that's just gonna be like

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Speaker 2: have fun, throw fast balls. He's like, yeah, like the

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Speaker 2: Dodgers made him throw five sweepers last year. He's probably like,

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Speaker 2: I hate this. I don't want to do this anymore.

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Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, maybe maybe I'm joking. Maybe like Lancelot

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Speaker 2: actually does that sweeper and like becomes worth I think

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Speaker 2: the ten or twelve million dollars they gave him. But

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Speaker 2: I think the bigger news, especially International League and the

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Speaker 2: pitching market itself, was that the Cardinals gave big money

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Speaker 2: to Sonny Gray. Yeah years seventy five million dollars, which

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Speaker 2: to me felt like a super just fair market rate

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Speaker 2: and just genuinely like, I like Sonny Gray, respects Sonny Gray.

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Speaker 2: I think in terms of effectiveness, he's a guy who

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Speaker 2: can rely on to like easily be a two or

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Speaker 2: three in rotation. I know right now he's there. They're

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Speaker 2: facto one, but again, like that's not the worst place

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Speaker 2: to be either, especially relative to where the Cardinals have

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Speaker 2: been for the last few years. It just seems like

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Speaker 2: a fair, honest deal.

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Speaker 1: I think it's whatever. I don't think, I don't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it makes the Cardinals better, per se, but the just

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Speaker 1: rest of the row is just so mediocreally boring that

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Speaker 1: I don't particularly care. And while Sonny Gray is a

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Speaker 1: very good pitcher, he's just like the better versions of

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Speaker 1: all the guys that they have. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: there's any like real like change of pace necessarily or

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Speaker 1: anything that separates him besides the fact that he just

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Speaker 1: is better from these other guys, I don't know, three

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Speaker 1: for seventy five. Again, it's not my money, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna really get too upset about it. Twenty five

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Speaker 1: million dollars a year for Sonny Gray, to me feels

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Speaker 1: like it might be like a little much, but that's

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Speaker 1: where we're you know, cutting hairs at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the going rate for pictures, especially higher level pictures

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Speaker 2: the last few years kind of is nine million dollars

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Speaker 2: like per win, like per war, and Sonny Gray like

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Speaker 2: is very much like a three to four win pitcher,

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Speaker 2: like somewhere in between there maybe a two and a half,

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Speaker 2: because when you bake in the injury risk, it really

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Speaker 2: just feels like I bet like super high floor for him.

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Speaker 2: I'll say that, Yeah, I bet like three to six

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Speaker 2: teams offered him this exact contract and they were like pick.

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Speaker 2: The agent was like, no, one's gonna go up. This

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Speaker 2: is what you're worth. They know, this is what you're worth.

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Speaker 2: This is there's a lot of money, so we're happy

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Speaker 2: to get it, and just you're gonna pick which everyone

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Speaker 2: easy like the most. And I do like the fact

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Speaker 2: that he did go to the Cardinals and in his

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Speaker 2: press conference that happened. I think it was either today Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: late Monday. He like started talking about Bob Gibson because

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Speaker 2: he put on he put on his jersey which is

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Speaker 2: number fifty four. I think it's always won number fifty four,

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Speaker 2: at least mostly, and he was like, yep, forty five

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Speaker 2: turns around for Bob Gibson. So I don't know that

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Speaker 2: was just him like sensing the moment, being like, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about Bob Gibson front of all the Cardinals people,

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Speaker 2: or if he's like always just been a Bob Gibson guy,

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Speaker 2: which is funny to I know, he's from Tennessee, which

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Speaker 2: I feel like, if you're from that part of the

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Speaker 2: country you're growing up, you're either gonna be Cardinals, Cubs,

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Speaker 2: or Braves. Yeah, and just the fact that I'm sure

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Speaker 2: all three of those teams probably offered him this exact contract.

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Speaker 2: This is the TV picked he may have an affinity

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Speaker 2: for that Cardinals read so john Sony Gray the Cardinals.

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Speaker 2: I mean we were at we had the conversation off

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Speaker 2: air where the Cardinals were like one of the most

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Speaker 2: disappointing teams in baseball last year. But I think most

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Speaker 2: of that was just because they got out such a

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Speaker 2: cold start and we're, for lack of a better term,

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Speaker 2: mentally weak and could not rebound from it, and they

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Speaker 2: just fell into a hole they couldn't climb out of.

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Speaker 2: Now they have like enough meet in the starting rotation

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Speaker 2: with Lynn Kyle Gibbson we talked about last week and

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Speaker 2: now Sunny Gray to be someone who you don't feel

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Speaker 2: awful about starting on opening day, where like, okay, like Central,

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Speaker 2: we know it's not very good. You can easily use

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Speaker 2: this with a very good lineup that they have still

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Speaker 2: probably top five the National League, to just kind of

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Speaker 2: walk to the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that them going into the

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Speaker 1: season though, with Sunny Gray as their number one like super.

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Speaker 2: Signals to the Cubs and the Reds and.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe even the Pirates or if the

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Speaker 1: Brewers want to try and spend some money, Like hey,

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Speaker 1: this division is still extremely up for grabs, Like this

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Speaker 1: move doesn't make the Cardinals by any means the favorite,

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Speaker 1: considering how bad they played last year. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's just to me, it's just they're just such a

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Speaker 1: boring team.

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Speaker 2: I don't care. That's really where I stand with this Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but that's kind of the benefit of being able to

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Speaker 2: play in the division like the Nlcentral compared to the Natleast,

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Speaker 2: we're like boring wins. With the Nleast, it's like every

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Speaker 2: single one of us is in a pure arms race

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Speaker 2: and we have to get as much as we can

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Speaker 2: to even try and compete. But the L Central is like,

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Speaker 2: let's get Sunny Gray Lancelaine, Kyle Gibbson, let's try and

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Speaker 2: win this division. And similar to that on the other

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Speaker 2: side of the league, the AL Central. Ken's Maida, someone

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Speaker 2: who I talked about to you guys about the month ago,

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Speaker 2: as I thought one of the best bargain options on

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Speaker 2: this reliever market on the starting pitching market to the

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Speaker 2: Tigers for two years, twenty four million dollars, same contract

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Speaker 2: that Alex Would got from the Giants two years ago,

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Speaker 2: basically the same contract that Andrew Heeney got from the

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Speaker 2: Rangers last year, and I think it's one that probably

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Speaker 2: offers more upside and more floor than we've seen. We

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Speaker 2: saw both of those bear out over the new When.

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Speaker 1: You put it in the perspective of the guys who

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Speaker 1: got similar stuff. Ken to Maida is probably a way

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Speaker 1: safer bet than either of those two in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, success that's going to be coming for the

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Speaker 1: next couple of seasons. And it's cool to see the Tigers,

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Speaker 1: a team that ended the season really well, has a

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Speaker 1: lot of young talent spending I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: like spending money, because it's it's not like an insane

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Speaker 1: amount of money that they spent or anything, but the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're like trying to approve upon this team

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Speaker 1: rather than maybe trade off some of their younger assets

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Speaker 1: to continue to rebuild for the next ten years or

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Speaker 1: whatever it's going to be, they see an opportunity and

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Speaker 1: what is easily the worst division in baseball.

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Speaker 2: And Super Super up for grabs. Respect that tip the

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Speaker 2: cap to the Tigers. Yeah, they're a team that I

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Speaker 2: told you this off air, but I think they can

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Speaker 2: very legitimately compete for either Like I'll spottle over their

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Speaker 2: division crown next year, mostly because of how bad their

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Speaker 2: division is, but also just because like torklesin Raley Green

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Speaker 2: taking a step, I think may aa if he's healthy,

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Speaker 2: like Leicester may the fifteenth highest strike on my his

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Speaker 2: walk grade for any baseball which I told you that

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Speaker 2: you were shocked and It is crazy because I don't

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Speaker 2: even think he really throws ninety miles an hour anymore.

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Speaker 2: And his slider shape got like a lot loopier since

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Speaker 2: he came back from the time of John last year.

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Speaker 2: But the splitter was amazing. Even though the fastball didn't

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Speaker 2: have any velocity, He's still got tons of swings and misses.

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Speaker 2: So like he he's a guy for twelve million, Like

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Speaker 2: he's your sp three. Like let's say, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Terrek School actually takes that step and his number one,

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Speaker 2: Casey Mayes, comes back. There's another guy there missing in

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Speaker 2: the middle of those two. Who is it? Spencer Turnbull.

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Speaker 2: Now he's out, he's freege right now. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Maybe he's not. This is a Tigers podcast. We don't care.

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Speaker 2: But I just think that that, like, that's a good

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Speaker 2: that's a good contract from AA. That's a good contract

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Speaker 2: for the pitching market in general, because he's someone who

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Speaker 2: had good results becomes an ample risk. I think it

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Speaker 2: is funny that I feel like when we were younger,

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Speaker 2: the free agent market always used to be set by

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Speaker 2: the guys to the top and then used to trickle down.

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Speaker 2: But right now this offseason, we're seeing like the middle

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Speaker 2: class and the upper like the guys in the middle

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Speaker 2: kind of go out and the market will branch out

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Speaker 2: from there in both directions, especially with Nola's setting it

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Speaker 2: at the top and now Sonny Grey getting twenty five

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Speaker 2: million dollars a year. May is off the board, Lens

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Speaker 2: off the board, Gibson is off the board, like a

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Speaker 2: lot of this middle clump is going now. Was the

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Speaker 2: middle clump that I thought was fruitful, And there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of guys that middle clump left, especially for

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Speaker 2: the Mets, who we know were in dire need of

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Speaker 2: starting pitchers who are definitely keeping close tabs in this market,

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Speaker 2: who probably with and no kind of inside knowledge that

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Speaker 2: we know of whatsoever, probably just more closely monitoring Yoshinobu

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Speaker 2: Yambo though as the only front line star they're available

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Speaker 2: on the market, and that's kind of why lies other

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Speaker 2: teams are picking off these guys in the middle, which

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Speaker 2: is fine, likes that's the way it is. But I

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Speaker 2: think that the ways market's developing is weirdly like kind

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Speaker 2: of good for both the pitchers and the teams who

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Speaker 2: are seeking pitching.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, and I mean I think in terms of the

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Speaker 1: Mets needing pitching. It seems like if it's not gonna

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Speaker 1: be free agency, it's gonna have to be the trade market.

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Speaker 1: And there are a ton of guys with rumors flying

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Speaker 1: around on the pitching side. Specifically two that I really

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Speaker 1: like being Dylan Ceason Tyler glass Now, because those are

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Speaker 1: just frontline starters, Those are aces. Those are guys who

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Speaker 1: can win a cy young who can be the best

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Speaker 1: pitcher on your team, and you don't feel uncomfortable about it.

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Speaker 2: Seane Bieber not so much.

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Speaker 1: Who's also a name that's flying around a little bit,

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Speaker 1: just because Shane Bieber, as we saw the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years, throws like ninety one miles an hour now,

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Speaker 1: so it's a little concerning that his arm is looking.

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Speaker 2: A little bit tired.

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Speaker 1: But glass Now and Cease Market, I mean, those are

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Speaker 1: two guys I would love to see beyond the Mets

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Speaker 1: next year totally.

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Speaker 2: I think they come with like a weirdly different set

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Speaker 2: of concerns. Like I love glass Now. I think he

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Speaker 2: at peak when he's on the mound, is clearly one

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Speaker 2: of the best pitches in baseball, But there's definitely fear

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Speaker 2: that he's someone who's I don't think ever crossed one

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Speaker 2: hundred twenty innings an entire mb career. He's turning thirty,

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Speaker 2: and like we always say in this podcast, like your

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Speaker 2: injury prone until you're not. But never having done it,

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Speaker 2: like never having demonstrated that ability, is a little scary.

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Speaker 2: And it is just one year. And also I was

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Speaker 2: looking at Glass Now yesterday and the contract he had

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Speaker 2: with the Rays of last two years is bizarre. They

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Speaker 2: don't pay him five million dollars last year to pitch,

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Speaker 2: and this year he's doing either twenty or twenty five

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Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, twenty five. This year's he's gone.

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Speaker 2: They're not paying that. There's no shot hundred percent. I

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Speaker 2: think they'd they signed that contract with him in like

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Speaker 2: a really brilliant way to try and do that. We're

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Speaker 2: like for five million dollars, we know we're gonna get

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Speaker 2: a half a year of an ace and then he'll

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Speaker 2: get this money and then we can just trade him

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Speaker 2: and get like a nice little prospect for him, which

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Speaker 2: is funny, and then see some on the other side

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Speaker 2: of that. Has been like absolutely a horse the last

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Speaker 2: few years, but just cannot find consistency. He had the

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Speaker 2: one pop year where everything came together he looked like

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Speaker 2: one of the best pitchers in baseball. But otherwise, like

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Speaker 2: his fastball is amazing, the slider's amazing, his change up

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Speaker 2: has never come along. His curveball is weird up and down.

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Speaker 2: Not that consistence kind of goes as usage as radical

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Speaker 2: with it. But like those two things together, if you

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Speaker 2: can just locate and like repeat, like we saved all

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Speaker 2: the time about the White Sox, like if you if

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Speaker 2: you failed her for years over years of the White Sox,

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Speaker 2: especially as a picture, I'm more inclined to give you

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Speaker 2: a chance because I know, we know that they're not

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Speaker 2: really using the most modern technology advancements and training methods

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Speaker 2: to try and make you a better player. And that's like,

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Speaker 2: that's another reason that he's a guy, and he's a

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Speaker 2: guy who could be great with any team he goes to.

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Speaker 2: And Hayman and Rosenthalf both are poor. That that has

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Speaker 2: Mark is hot the Dodgers and Braves the team that

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Speaker 2: have been linked. It is also noteworthy Mets fans that

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Speaker 2: we've not been linked anyone, and some Mets fans are

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Speaker 2: weirdly upset about this. I think all Mets fans should

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Speaker 2: be not just like content with it, but literally completely

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Speaker 2: thrilled with it. Take go sick. We use we used

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Speaker 2: to just be a hose just spouting everywhere like leak here,

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Speaker 2: leak here, connected here, connected here, and now with nothing,

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Speaker 2: we're just silence. We're moving, We're we're doing everything. The

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Speaker 2: great the great American poet Lowayne once once No, Real

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Speaker 2: G is moving silence like Lasagna. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that's something that we can take as a point of

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Speaker 2: pride now from our front office.

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Speaker 1: Oh one hundred percent. I listen, you know who else is?

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Speaker 1: Who else just like sneaks up on you and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you're like, oh.

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Speaker 2: That the Braves.

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Speaker 1: The Brave has been doing it for like the last

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Speaker 1: like four or five years. It's like, hey, we traded

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Speaker 1: for Matt Olsen. You're like, what when did that happen?

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Speaker 1: There was no rumor, there was nothing. There was a

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Speaker 1: press release. That's how everybody found out. I would love

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Speaker 1: for the Mets to be just like that, sneaky silent,

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Speaker 1: like you said, real G's moving silence like Lasagna.

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Speaker 2: With Dylan Cease. The extra thing to add to is

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Speaker 2: that you do have him for two years over Tyler

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Speaker 2: Glas now for the one year Shane Bieber I think

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Speaker 2: is only one year, right, I think he's a free

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Speaker 2: agent in the twenty twenty five offseasons as well. Yep,

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Speaker 2: we've given Shane Bieber trade rumbors, no credence just because

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Speaker 2: every single pitcher that the Cleveland organization has moved in

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Speaker 2: the last like six or seven years, the second they're

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Speaker 2: off that team, everything disintegrates.

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Speaker 1: Except oh six or seven years. Okay, yeah, because back

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Speaker 1: to CCCC was electric. But that was about to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was before they modernized. Also, shout

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Speaker 1: out Cleveland.

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Speaker 2: My guy brag Oldberg used to be pitching coach at

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Speaker 2: Ohio State, just got appointed their bullpen coach, got up

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Speaker 2: from player development a coach down there. So happy, happy

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Speaker 2: for Brad Stanyle in Ohio. Love that love that move

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Speaker 2: for them in the organization because they just the pipeline

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Speaker 2: of pitching that the Guardians to be able to have

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Speaker 2: for like the modern era of baseball is ridiculous, Like

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Speaker 2: the fact that Shane Bieber can fall off a cliff

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Speaker 2: and just Gavin Gavin Williams and Tanner Biby just pop

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Speaker 2: out from the same draft class. First, I think in

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Speaker 2: fourth round picks. I know where were like, oh, two

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Speaker 2: more elite guys. Like that's the kind of thing you

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Speaker 2: strive for. His organization where they can just replenish, retool, reuse,

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Speaker 2: and then they can trade these guys and towards the

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Speaker 2: end of their contracts and like Klueber, we got we

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Speaker 2: saw Kraska that first year was was really rough. We

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Speaker 2: had we had to get him back to form. Who's

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Speaker 2: another guy they traded. I feel just more than we're

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Speaker 2: missing well so Vali they did just trade, but Sava, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I think that was different. That was that was

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Speaker 2: like much more of it, like a symbiotic trade where yeah,

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Speaker 2: they were like we're getting a good play and you're

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Speaker 2: gonna have a good player between him and Colemans are

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Speaker 2: there who they just need the power bat and there

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Speaker 2: or there. It was like just an organization, two organizations

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Speaker 2: training from different point of strength. But yeah, I feel

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Speaker 2: like this another one not worth thinking about right now.

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Speaker 2: Is not clearly griding this podcast. But I'm always very

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Speaker 2: afraid to make trades with them with pitching because they

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Speaker 2: just have some voodoo. That's fair.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and we've seen Shane Bieber, like maybe the

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Speaker 1: numbers haven't dropped off, but like the stuff is dropped

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Speaker 1: off quite a bit with him, so well concerning with him.

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Speaker 1: Now tell you someone who is not concerning who Ken

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Speaker 1: Rosenthal said will be traded will be traded Wan Sodo.

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Speaker 1: The question is not whether Soda will be traded. The

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Speaker 1: question is which team will acquire him. He's expected to

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Speaker 1: make about thirty three million dollars in arbitration, according to

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Speaker 1: MLB trade rumors, which is just an.

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Speaker 2: Insane amount of money. He's twenty five years old.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's not as much of a conversation

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Speaker 1: among Mets fans. I think every Mets fan knows like

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Speaker 1: how good Wan Soda is, and I think everybody who

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Speaker 1: is a Mets fan wants wants to be a Met

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Speaker 1: if possible. But it's funny to see, like the conversation

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Speaker 1: about him on Twitter, or just like the casual baseball

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Speaker 1: fan who's like, well, he hit like two forty last year,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, hold on a second, Like let's backtrack here.

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Speaker 1: Wan Soda is twenty five years of age and he

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Speaker 1: has what put up thirty war in his major league

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Speaker 1: career thus far. He averages about thirty ish home runs

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Speaker 1: a year, gets on base at a four hundred clip

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Speaker 1: in his worst season, Like, what are we talking about here?

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Speaker 1: This guy is discussing he's generational one of the best

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Speaker 1: players we've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: So though, also has that career war with openly basically

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Speaker 2: never trying a defense, which.

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Speaker 1: Is literally not even caring at all, or even carrying

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Speaker 1: on the base pass particularly.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about family holidays and my

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Speaker 2: family in particular is that my dad, my two uncles,

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Speaker 2: and my one cousin, all my dad's side, we're all

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Speaker 2: just psychotically obsessed with sports, especially baseball, and we basically

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Speaker 2: between like turkey stuffing whiskey and sports. We filled seven

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Speaker 2: hours about anybody getting a breath. And on Thanksgiving, like

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Speaker 2: we went like straight down from the list of topics

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Speaker 2: from Matt's Yankees, like Juan so Though, all the way

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Speaker 2: to like Zach Wilson, all the way down to Julius Randed,

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Speaker 2: Like we covered literally the entire gam but every single

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Speaker 2: thing we possibly good. And there was a fierce argument

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Speaker 2: in the middle of this about wan so Though his

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Speaker 2: place and like modern baseball and like all time baseball's pantheon,

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Speaker 2: And I had to point out to my one cousin

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Speaker 2: who's like still he's just all of his knowledge. I

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Speaker 2: think he listens to the show too, so he's gonna

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Speaker 2: love this. But yeah, all of his baseball knowledge comes

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Speaker 2: it gets derived specifically from our families fancy Baseball League,

401
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Speaker 2: which is a fantasy baseball league that really honors batting

402
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Speaker 2: average more than on base percentage, especially hits. And he

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Speaker 2: was like, give me Freddy Freeman over wants so every

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Speaker 2: day of the week. And I'm like, well, technically there's

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Speaker 2: a I think that like that, there's an argument for

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Speaker 2: the next year two years where that does make sense.

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Speaker 2: But then I pulled him up and even though last

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Speaker 2: year they had like a fifty point difference in their

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Speaker 2: batting averages, it was basically the same on base percentage. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then I also pulled up Baseball Reference all time

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Speaker 2: on base percentage leaders for careers and want so tho

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Speaker 2: was nineteenth and history of baseball. He's also I believe,

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Speaker 2: the active leader at four twenty one. Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 2: remotely the clothes. I think second active is my Trout,

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Speaker 2: who's we know my feelings on Mike Trout four twelve,

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Speaker 2: and after them, Joey viol not really active anymore. And

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Speaker 2: then to get past them, it's Aaron Judge actually three

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Speaker 2: ninety six, which is kind of funny, but Whan soo

419
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Speaker 2: as generational the result, like his skill set is so

420
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Speaker 2: good that like like he can almost like like break

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Speaker 2: his ankle and like still be able like to be

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Speaker 2: a highly sactive player for you if you have to

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Speaker 2: put them on the field, worst case scenario, he's great.

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Speaker 2: Ken Rosenowl again. His article from the Athletics said that

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Speaker 2: he will get traded, which is crazy to think about

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Speaker 2: and feels like there's no word on really who's involved,

427
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Speaker 2: because seems like probably just everybody is to a degree,

428
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Speaker 2: similar to Yoshinobu yam Moa, similar to Sho Haotani, where

429
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Speaker 2: we haven't heard any like concrete rumors about these three

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00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 2: players because seemingly everyone's going to do it, especially in

431
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 2: terms of Solo and Otani. These are two of the

432
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: seven best hitters in the entire league. We're both going

433
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 2: to be on new teams and the season begins, young mother,

434
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 2: who has the potential to be like a top fourteen,

435
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 2: top ten pitcher in the whole league. All these guys

436
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 2: changing teams. Same when you throw glass now into that equation,

437
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 2: like all these guys are changing teams, and there's so

438
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 2: much quiet right now that is a little bizarre. And

439
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: hopefully next week with the with the Winter meetings, like

440
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 2: that's start to get pushed a little bit. I know

441
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 2: for a fact because I'm taking I'm taking a long

442
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 2: two weeks to kill in a week and a half,

443
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: it's gonna be I'm gonna be out of the country

444
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 2: from the ninth to the twenty seconds still podcasting, guys,

445
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,639
Speaker 2: of course, nowhere is there, but I know for a

446
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,879
Speaker 2: fact something huge is gonna happen. I'm gonna be like

447
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 2: not able to be a real part of it. So

448
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 2: just you guys can know that that's the James Jenks guaranteed.

449
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,920
Speaker 2: So a lot of action going on, a lot of

450
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,119
Speaker 2: the rumors. Great time in the winter for rumors right now,

451
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 2: like these are the two weeks where everything gets crazy

452
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: from like Thanksgiving to the Winter meetings. You can hear

453
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 2: anybody's name in the trade negotiation.

454
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is with people like our parents'

455
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 1: age that's fifties and above. Let's just say trust a

456
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,400
Speaker 1: lot of trust in just any sort of media source,

457
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't matter the credibility or whether or not

458
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: they've have any sort of history of breaking news or

459
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 1: breaking info. But like my dad, his favorite thing to

460
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 1: do is he'll come up to me and be like, hey, so, uh,

461
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 1: you think about the Mets Mike Trout? You think that's real?

462
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 1: And I'm like, where did you get this from? Like

463
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: are you on Facebook again? Get off of Facebook. Stop

464
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: reading these random posts that nobody is that some random

465
00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: person is making. He's like all right, fine, Or he'll

466
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: like I heard it on the radio. I don't know

467
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: who said. I'm like, yeah, exactly, you don't know who

468
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,239
Speaker 1: said it. Stop stop believing it. I don't know what

469
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:07,399
Speaker 1: the blind Trust is.

470
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,359
Speaker 2: In their defense, they came from an era where being

471
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: a sports or porter was like very regal and like

472
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 2: very respected, and there were only like a few of

473
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 2: them around, Like every team had a beat writher or

474
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 2: two maybe three in the biggest markets, and like those

475
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 2: guys were in the know with the team, like trusted

476
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 2: members of the organization basically, and like we know every

477
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 2: team still has a few of those, but the market

478
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,639
Speaker 2: has become so saturated, just especially because people like us

479
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 2: talking to you. I was about to say, like this

480
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 2: was the whole thing right here, this is the issue.

481
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 2: It's you and me especially, but where it's like someone

482
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 2: says something like, oh this person said it, they can

483
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 2: believe it, and like that, Like that's kind of the

484
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 2: funny thing about where we are now. But like this week,

485
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 2: like Alex Pregnant's name came up in the trading ship

486
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 2: like trade conversation bo Bashett flag Gerero's like, you guys

487
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: aren't getting traded, Like I mean maybe, like maybe Bregnanc's

488
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 2: on a one year deal, but like their dads, we're

489
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 2: trying to win a world series. Think they're going to

490
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 2: trade their superstar third baseman who's the heart and soul

491
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 2: of their team with multiple championship rings. Most likely not.

492
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they just traded two of the best prospects

493
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: for Justin Verlander. I don't think that they're gonna all

494
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,919
Speaker 1: of a sudden be like, you know what, how are

495
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 1: we going to fill in another hole with this team?

496
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,640
Speaker 1: Get rid of our good third basement, Like that's gonna

497
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: help us.

498
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 2: That's a really good thing to do there. It's just funny.

499
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 2: This time of year is a lot that's happening, So

500
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: everyone just be able to like pars through the noise,

501
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: like get through the muddy waters and like get ready

502
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 2: for the real stuff to happen, because, as we know

503
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 2: from last year, like that chunk of time December January,

504
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 2: there is when the real stuff starts to happen. So

505
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,239
Speaker 2: everyone and everyone just keep keep your ears perked up.

506
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: There's there's the big two names that you're listening to

507
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: right now, Jeff Pass and Ken Rosenthal. That's just pretty

508
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 1: much what it is.

509
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 2: And n right, and that's why I hold so much

510
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,439
Speaker 2: weight when Rosenthal says the question is not whether one

511
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 2: so will be traded, the questions which team will acquire him? Yeah,

512
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 2: wors like that from Ken Rosehaller.

513
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: You're like, whoa, that's really big, big stuff here, big

514
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 1: stuff here. And then the last thing I guess to

515
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: talk about here would be the Japanese pitchers. Another one

516
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 1: got posted, James, you got a pronunciation on this guy.

517
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 1: I want, I want to hear you take this one.

518
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: Chota Imanaga.

519
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,919
Speaker 1: There it is Chota Imanaga posted. We've talked about him

520
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: a little bit before, but Suly won the World Baseball Classic,

521
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:57,919
Speaker 1: got some decent stuff.

522
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 2: I know you said that maybe he needs to get

523
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 2: one pitchers, So I think, yeah, I've been I've been

524
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: just trying to learn a lot about him. Just it's

525
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 2: like half a fantasy baseball and half for like this

526
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 2: content trying to bring to you guys where it's like

527
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: I want to just be able to find out how

528
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 2: these guys will translate, especially thinking in the context of

529
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 2: Code I Sanga because besides, like you darbish and like

530
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 2: I guess, Adeonomo and dice K lifetime ago, we haven't

531
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 2: really seen thorn pitchers. Yeah, Tanaka too, I guess. So

532
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: we have seen a lot of hoorn pitchers come in

533
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 2: and be immediately very effective, but then like kind of

534
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,679
Speaker 2: struggle to maintain effect in this And I think the key,

535
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 2: especially when you think in terms of Code I Sanga,

536
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: is that he came in with premier velocity and probably

537
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 2: the best pitch in baseball, which it's hard. You can't

538
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 2: have two best pitches in baseball. Then one of them

539
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: is not gonna be the best pitch in baseball. And

540
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: you got like Imanaga there it is Ianaga, Imanaga, Imanagha.

541
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: I got that right. He is coming in with an

542
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: amazing fastball from the left side with a lot of

543
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: carry on it great and do his vertical break, but

544
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't have peak velocity, so you kind of that's

545
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 2: something we've talked about before. It's like a precarious fastball

546
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: where the shape is amazing and velosity is okay. If

547
00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 2: the shape goes away, then we're gon we're gonna be

548
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 2: worried about effectingness of the pitch. And he also his

549
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: primary secondary pitch. I always love saying that term because's

550
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: so silly, is a sweeper and the sweeper is amazing,

551
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 2: but we know that sweepers are not that effective against

552
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 2: hitters from the opposite side. And as a lefty, he's

553
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 2: gonna be facing mostly right these Yeah, and we only

554
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 2: saw him really in a relief role in the World

555
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: Baseball Classic, so he kind of was pumping extra in

556
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: those pitches and not really for but like a shorter

557
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 2: stints like.

558
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: Especially that because he started the final. Yeah, he started.

559
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: I think he gave maybe three innings maybe.

560
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, No, it was a short I think four

561
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 2: at most. Yeah. So then it's it's becomes a question

562
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 2: of if there's a curve ball, if there's change up,

563
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: if there's a color, what he can do to get

564
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 2: those rights out in a way that will be able

565
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: to be repeatable long term. Because last year in the

566
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 2: MPB he had a better strike out to walk ratio

567
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: than Yoshno Byambo. Though yeah, he like he's at he

568
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: is one of the best pitches in that league, like

569
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: Code Sagle was like Biam Moo Tho is and was,

570
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: So he is someone who's on that level. But again,

571
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 2: just as a lefty with the main sweeper. I'm very

572
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: curious to see how he translates like that. Like I,

573
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: I would love to have him. I think most teams would.

574
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 2: I think he will have a competitive market more than

575
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 2: middle class, more similar to a deal like Code Sanga

576
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 2: got than one that ya mother will get. But I

577
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 2: think he's an interesting name.

578
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm blanking right now, and maybe

579
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: it's just because I woke up a few hours ago

580
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: and my brain's still kind of kind of getting through here.

581
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: But uh, who's a lefty starting pitcher with like a

582
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: good sweeper. All I can think about is righty's right now,

583
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: Clerk Schmit's already right, yeah, Clerk Schmit's already. I'm also

584
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: this is a this is messed up for you too,

585
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: because you're not great with righty lefty, but.

586
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: I'm so for some reason, I'm so bad with righty

587
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 2: lefty and numbers like, yeah, because numbers don't matter. It

588
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: doesn't who cares. I don't care what number of player

589
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: is jersey, Yeah, it's a jersey. But I'm like, it's

590
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: like something that I'm thinking about so many other things.

591
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 2: I'm watching these guys, like I never see the number

592
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 2: on their jersey. I never even recognize it. But handedness

593
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 2: for a picture is definitely not because I definitely should

594
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: do that more. But I'll pull up some sweeper stuff

595
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,239
Speaker 2: if you want to keep talking. Moving on.

596
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: And then there was another guy, Nayuki Ohsawa. That's I

597
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: think I botched that one, but he also got posted.

598
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: I have not really seen too much information about him

599
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: because obviously the shine right now is on Yamamoto and Imanaga.

600
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: But he's also another guy who I think has a

601
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: has a pretty decent fastball that's now been posted, could

602
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: be looking to come to Major League Baseball.

603
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, his whole thing is the fastball. He wasn't in

604
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 2: WBC for Team Japans. We don't know as much about

605
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: like the grades of that pitch, but I just have

606
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: seen people talk about the fact that's good, good vertical

607
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: break des and velocity. But he is someone who was

608
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: more in that middle class of Japanese pitchers rather than

609
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: the upperlass. Than these other guys we've spoken about, but

610
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: someone who's definitely interesting and I get him. And again

611
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: your boy was named Yariel. Last name was Rodriguez, Ariel Rodriguez.

612
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: Like these other guys who are a lot of these

613
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 2: kind of questionable pitchers, we're gonna get contracts. Same my

614
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 2: boy Eric Fetty. A lot of interesting pitchers in this

615
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: Markti Fetti, but so many pitchers in this market right now,

616
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: it's very exciting to think about where where these chips

617
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: are going to fall.

618
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean hopefully Met's get a couple of them.

619
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: Definitely need a couple of those guys. As we know,

620
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: the starting rotation right now not particularly complete, but trusting

621
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: David Stearns to get it done for us. As we

622
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: switched the conversation here to the Hall of Fame discussion

623
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: for the second half of the episode, which is always

624
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: this one's an interesting one because talk about like getting.

625
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: Into an argument at the Thanksgiving being dinner.

626
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: It feels like if you bring up the Hall of

627
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: Fame and guys who are Hall of Famers or not

628
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: like this is this could like end a family relationship,

629
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: like depending on what side you're on here for certain players,

630
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: because for some reason there are like hard lines drawn

631
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: in the sand for certain players to which you feel

632
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: like it's a no brainer. Sometimes we'll go through some

633
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: of those guys, but we of course have to start

634
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,959
Speaker 1: off with David Wright being on the Hall of Fame ballot,

635
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: which is just just a gut punch. Gut punch, because

636
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy should have had a few more

637
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: years at least until he was on the Hall of.

638
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: Fame ballot, just like so many more years, so he

639
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: was on the Hall of Fame ballot. It makes me sad.

640
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: I always think about David Wright because I don't know.

641
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: There was a great red post in the Mets Subred

642
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 2: last week that was basically just titled what would have

643
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: happened for the Mets between like twenty fourteen and twenty

644
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: twenty if nothing happened to David Wright, Like if it

645
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: was just normal, and like the butterfly effect of that

646
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: is crazy, Like I'd love to like explore my own wife,

647
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: I ever like stopped being a little baby and like

648
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: ever make my own content. But like it's it's just

649
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: I have this thought twice a week maybe for the

650
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: last ten years of my entire life, Like what would

651
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: this have been like if that, if if David Wright's

652
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: back just simply cooperated, But I don't know, Like when

653
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: everything was going twenty four twenty thirteen, David Wright had

654
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: a three zero one, three eighty two five or six

655
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: triple slash, two hundred, twenty homers, eight hundred and fifty runs, scored,

656
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: eight hundred and seventy steals, one hundred eighty age of

657
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: seventy y RBIs one hundred eighty steals, eight hundred seventy steals.

658
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: That would have been mad. Actually, if never I had

659
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: eight hundred steals in nine years, he's probably been All Famer.

660
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: Benest with you.

661
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: But but though like those averages for the first ten

662
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: years of his career, that was a twenty six homer,

663
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: one hundred rbi, one hundred run, twenty stolen base one

664
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: sixty two average.

665
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah that if you do that for five more years,

666
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: you're quite literally a Hall of Famer. Like that is,

667
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: he never had ops plus below one thirty after one

668
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 2: twenty four, after he really got going, even the one

669
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: year it's when City Field just swallow him up. That

670
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: first year of the Ballpark, he still had a one

671
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: fifteen OPS plus with with seven to seventy ops when

672
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: the place he couldn't even hit, Like they're like he

673
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: was right there, like with a rod like Chipper Longoria,

674
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: Beltray like as their best, their basement of that era,

675
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 2: and it's just that was it.

676
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: I was just about to bring up Beltray because I'm

677
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm right now in Baseball Reference.

678
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 2: It just gives you, like all the guys who are.

679
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: On the Hall of Fame ballot and looking at Adrian Beltray,

680
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: he just simply played more games Otherwise, like David Wright,

681
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: slash line was just straight up better at every single aspect,

682
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: better average, better on base, better slugging, better ops and

683
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: the numbers he played about half the games that Adrian

684
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: Belchray played. So I'm gonna be a little stupid here

685
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: and just say you double it. You double the numbers

686
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: that David Wright has, and you're like, oh, this is

687
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: one of the best third basement that's ever played. The

688
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: game we made that TikTok and Instagram reel about it.

689
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: It's it's depressing because it's like, man, he really like

690
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: this isn't even just Mets fans talking. He was on

691
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: pace to be one of the greatest third basement to

692
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: ever play, and so good with the glove so.

693
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: Good, yeah, like legitimately, and I the Beltra comp is

694
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: one where I'll like, I'll make you stop a little

695
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: bit just because Beltray good. Thing that made him so

696
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: good and the thinking made him won the best third

697
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: basement all the time. The thing that's going to make

698
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: him a First Ball Hall of Famer when these numbers,

699
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: when these bouts are revealed in a few weeks or

700
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: a month or whatever it is, is that, for some reason,

701
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: from thirty two to forty, the guys just was just like,

702
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get better. And I think a big part

703
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: of that was him moving to the Rangers and like

704
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: the old school glove Life Park where you can just

705
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: like hit fly balls out but amazing. But then like

706
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: you keep looking back at David Wright, like he was

707
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 2: also like Captain American in that first WBC, like he

708
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: was face of the second WBC. He was like the

709
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: face of the league. He was an All Star every year,

710
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: like home Run Derby, like Ugh, Like through age thirty

711
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: he had the ninth most war for any third basement

712
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 2: ever too, like the only guys ahead of him even

713
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: like the only guy ahead of him not in the

714
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame I believe is Buddy bell I think

715
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 2: I don't know Buddy Bellis Bellers retired in eighty two,

716
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: I mean no different entire in eighty two, but retired

717
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: in the eighties. But like he was just he was

718
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: just on this pace where he definitely would have been

719
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: one of the greatest third baseman, like an all time

720
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: icon as someone who we wish that wouldn't even be

721
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: on the ballot right now, like we talked about it

722
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: last week briefly, like he's what I think. I think

723
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: he said, what ten years younger than Bartolo Clone, they're

724
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: on the ballot the same time. I think that sucks.

725
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: That's awful, Like that makes put such a pit in

726
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: my stomach. Yeah, I mean it sucks. It sucks.

727
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: David Wright, I think, well, since we're gonna just go

728
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: through guys and mention if they are or not a

729
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer unfortunately because of how his career went,

730
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: not a Hall of Famer though, right, No.

731
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: I don't think he only can be. I'd vote for him.

732
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: I mean, if I had a vote, I got ten

733
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm voting. I'm using I've always said you should use

734
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: all ten votes every single year. It should be like

735
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: one of these things where you just use them all

736
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: because keeping guys on the ballot is super important too,

737
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: like just being able to make it past one year,

738
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: which I.

739
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: Think David Wright deserves.

740
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: David Wright deserves at least one more year on the ballot,

741
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: just as like a tip to Cap you were so sick,

742
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: we understand what happened to your career. So he'd get

743
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: one of my votes as the ten. But is he

744
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: going to make the Hall of Fame. I that's not

745
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: going to happen.

746
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: I think. I think it's so funny when we get

747
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: to this time of year and like should Ryan Tibodeaux

748
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: he is the Hall of Fame ballot tracker on twhether

749
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: he is the main source of all this information when

750
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: you get the the no vote ballots. Those guys are legendary,

751
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: I swear, like literally, like whoever that curmudgeon you do

752
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: is in the middle of oh with Arkansas or Iowa,

753
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: like the very burry something is his name.

754
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: I think he writes for like Politico, I think, which

755
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: is like crazy, I get some Baseball Hall of Fame vote.

756
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: But this is why every single year. I I'll say

757
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: it until it stops. I can't. I really stopped respecting

758
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: the institution with Mario Rivera became the first, you know,

759
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: unonymous Hall of Famers first ballot recipient. Yeah, no, it's

760
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: it's crazy, it's insane. Vote him over Ted Williams. You

761
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: have over William Mays. You receiver like you, you're the guys.

762
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: Now you're voting from a guy who was a failed

763
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: starting pitcher, who pitched like an inning every other day

764
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: like that, that is your own unanimous Hall favors. It

765
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 2: makes me so mad every single time I think about it.

766
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: This is a big conversation Thanksgiving too.

767
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Of course. No, I mean it is crazy that he

768
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: is the first. Neither of us think that he is

769
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: not a Hall of Famer. He is the greatest closer

770
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: of all time, without doubt.

771
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: It's easy. I would I would have made him wait

772
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: for the second ballot. But now, in terms of another

773
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: former met on the ballot this year, in terms of

774
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 2: relief pictures, it's it's terrible that it's taking Billy Waggoner

775
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: just locked again to the Hall of Fame. Well, he's

776
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: on his ninth year.

777
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: He has one more year after this and I don't

778
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: know why they're making him sweat.

779
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: He's so close.

780
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: He got to sixty eight percent last year, which tracks

781
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: for him to make it probably in his tenth year,

782
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: which is just so messed up that they're making him

783
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: do this. But I mean, you look at his numbers

784
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: down the board outside of like the counting numbers of saves,

785
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: which by the way, he has four hundred, which puts

786
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: him like what inside the top ten I think in

787
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: all time, it's.

788
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: Sixth all time, and it's only fifty six behind Lee Smith,

789
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: who was in the Hall of Fame.

790
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: Gotcha, So four hundred and twenty two saves, a two

791
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: three ERA and a whip under one for what he

792
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: played sixteen seasons of major League baseball. I don't know

793
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: how he keep this guy out every single year. He's

794
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: he's arguably the best left handed reliever of all time.

795
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: There's also like, I think the thing that keeps Wagner

796
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: out is the fact that he doesn't have Again you

797
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: mentioned volume, he's only fifty six behind Lee Smith, who's

798
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame. Got in on the Veterans

799
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: committee though, so a little different. I understand that. But

800
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: Hoff and Mariano look are the two traditional mainstay closers

801
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: who never really had any kind of career whatsoever, the

802
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: starting pitcher besides Lee Smith, who got into the Hall

803
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 2: of Fame, and both of them got in relatively easily.

804
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: I mentioned Mariano You ananimous Hall of Famer, the only

805
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: one in the history baseball, which is ridiculous. And Trevor

806
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: Hoffman third ballot, and like those guys have over six

807
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: hundred saves. Those guys have all the narrative stuff because

808
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: they play their entire career with one team. They have

809
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: Mariana being nails season what Hoffman played for other teams.

810
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: But but like his he's known as like a long

811
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: time padre, like Billy. Like when you think about Trevor Hoffman,

812
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: he's like, I think it was over a decade with

813
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: the Padres. You know, you think Padres, but he was

814
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: Marlins and Brewers Stough so for.

815
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: Sure, but he was a padre. Like again, like you Swinch,

816
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: you're like Matt Sastro's Phillies. I can't really think about

817
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: it right now, actually, but I don't really know. But

818
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: you're totally right about that and the fact that he's

819
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: not a definable with the team.

820
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: Totally hurts him. Yes, and like just the fact that

821
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: he was just such a weird story to get to

822
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 2: the league, like coming from not very much growing up.

823
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: I know his family was like on like the Podley line,

824
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 2: Like he broke his right arms, he started throwing leftians

825
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: was able to throw undred miles an hour with it,

826
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: like just grind his way up, he was, Like I

827
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: think he was, like I rather think this morning, I

828
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: think from Jay Jaffe that he was like five six,

829
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: like one point fifty in high school. Like yeah, it's

830
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: like just underdog, bulldog, Like every single thing he did

831
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: was grinding his way to the top. And he doesn't

832
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: have a ring like those guys have. Hoffan has the one,

833
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: Mariano has all of the ranks.

834
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: And also Marion did blow a couple of big playoff

835
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: games to the Yankees, so he did at ones that

836
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: was but again, Mario's great reliever of all time.

837
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: You're not gonna catch me on that. But like we

838
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: have to again, I say this every time we talk

839
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: about this. We have to start viewing relievers a little

840
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: differently in terms of how viewed in the Hall of Fame,

841
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: just because of how the game has changed and how

842
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: important they are to the modern game, and like where

843
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: it's gone the last twenty or thirty years, I say

844
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: six to all time and save two behind legend John

845
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: Franco for most of all time by a left since

846
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty for a minimum of relievers who throwing five

847
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 2: hundred innings, Billy Wagner has the second lowest era second

848
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: both a half a run better than Trevor Hoffman, who

849
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: again got to the Hall of Fame really easily, and

850
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: the fifth best strikeout rate the highest for any picture

851
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: that they buwed after two thousand and five, So for

852
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: any relief pitcher that deybuted before two and five, Billy

853
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: Wagner has the highest track out rate in history of baseball. Yeah,

854
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: baseball changed a lot in the last twe years, changed

855
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: a lot, So I think that's really relevant that when

856
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: this was still an old game that Billy Wagner was

857
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: pitching in, also a very steroid rhythm game that Billy

858
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: Waite was pitching in, he was able to dominate for

859
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: years and years to like just completely be one of

860
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: the best relievers in baseball as a left he throwing gas.

861
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: And you can't really talk about that era of baseball

862
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: without talking about Billy Wagner. I think that's the most

863
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: relevant part about this.

864
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: I think also like he's just he kind of was

865
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: a different reliever of the time too. Like you mentioned

866
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: Mariano and Hoffman, those guys were a little bit more

867
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: of like I don't want to say finesse pitchers, but

868
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: like they didn't throw a hundred, they didn't have the

869
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: heat like Billy Wagner. Like he came into the game,

870
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: he brought the energy to brought the juice, and he

871
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: was disgusting. It's messed up, and I feel like he's

872
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: a little bit of a litmus test of whether or

873
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: not I really value your baseball opinion if you think

874
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: Billy Wagger's All of Famer or not.

875
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: I kind of go on that one a little bit.

876
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: What about you. I'm not gonna I'm not going to

877
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: put anyone in an individual is based on wa to

878
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: think about BILLI Weackner's Hall of Fame candidacy. But it's

879
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: just if baseball is going to modernize itself, like from

880
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: top to bottom, and you're gonna give credit to players

881
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: who deserve credit for how important they work to an

882
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: era that's modern, Like he has to be a Hall

883
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: of Famer. He just he simply has to be like,

884
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: there's no way, because then are we just not gonna

885
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: let relievers in Hall of Fame? These guys who pitch

886
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: all this time, all this seas so important, you get

887
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: all this money, every single trade deadline, they go to

888
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: all these different directions that are getting the last doubts

889
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: in the most important games for every single team throughout

890
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: the season. Like, how can we judge this sport? And

891
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: historically when these guys who are such important members their

892
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: teams aren't recognized in fair ways.

893
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: Well, I've got another guy that I want to kind

894
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: of complain about a little bit because he got disrespectfully

895
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: a low amount of votes, and I think I know

896
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of the reason why.

897
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: It's because some of his past history.

898
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: But Carlos Beltron is such a clearcut Hall of Famer

899
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: it's insane that he didn't even get fifty percent of

900
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: the ballot. Now, of course, I think some of the

901
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 1: astro stuff that went on Malcarlos Beltrom might be what's

902
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: hindering him a little bit, which I think is stupid

903
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 1: because any baseball writer who thinks that there aren't baseball

904
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: players throughout the history of time that have done something.

905
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: Maybe they weren't, you know, getting video cameras, but doing

906
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: some sort of advantage something. Yes, Monti Grandal said the

907
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: best if you ain't cheat and he ain't winning. There

908
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: are four players in Major League Baseball history that played

909
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: the outfield for at least about forty percent of the

910
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: games of their career. Not many that have four hundred

911
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: home runs, three hundred stolen bases, and at eight hundred ops.

912
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: Can you name the other three games? Mantle? No? What, Yeah,

913
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: that's what.

914
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: That's what Baseball Reference is telling me. Bonds, Bonds, Mays, Mays.

915
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 2: It's not to Mojo, It's not Mantle. It's that's it's

916
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 2: not popping up on sadhead. That's what I'm saying. That's

917
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: not popping up on sadhead, is it? Oh yeah, Mantle

918
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: solely one hundred and fifty bases. I guess yeah, he

919
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: needs to play with almost entire career of the torn acls.

920
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 2: That makes sense. But so you got bonds of maze

921
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: the stolen bases ones. Now is just throwing me bonds maze,

922
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: is it?

923
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a tough pick here. He's

924
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer though, I'll tell you that. So

925
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: there's there's my argument he should the Hall of Fame.

926
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: I'll throw two right now, two old ones musial, No,

927
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: it's Andre Dawson.

928
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: Andre Dawson, who Beltron had a ops thirty points clear

929
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: of him as well. But it's like the fact that

930
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: he's getting this is disrespectful. How few amount of votes

931
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: he got last year. And like every we've all watched

932
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: him play. You watch this guy and you're like, oh,

933
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: this is one of the best players in baseball. This

934
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: guy is gonna be in the Hall of Fame one day.

935
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: To be in the second year, he's got to get

936
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: way more votes.

937
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: He should be in. He should be in. I don't

938
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: care about all the that astro stuff. Doesn't matter to me.

939
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: And also just like compare him to like other centerfielders

940
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: who have made the Hall of Fame, because I think

941
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 2: that being a center fielder puts you in a very

942
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: different context for the guys who played the corner of field,

943
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: especially guy like Beltron, who he knew is Colin Carr

944
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 2: was such an elite defensive centerfielder, and Mets fans understood

945
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: this is watching him for the bulk of his career

946
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: like guy's like Richie Ashburn, like Andre Dawson, like you

947
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: mentioned before, like Carls Beltrom has better than these guys

948
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 2: at baseball. Yeah he was, he just was. He might

949
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: not have had and he, like these guys weren't even

950
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: like big volume guys like you get somebody home runs.

951
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: Richie Ashburn has entire career got to be like one

952
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: hundred twenty nine. That's way less.

953
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: I knew he didn't hit home runs, but I thought

954
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: he was maybe sprinkling in like six or seventy year

955
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: for fifteen years.

956
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: And Ashburn, like in his day, was a great player,

957
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: Like he's strong walks when no one else really was.

958
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: Like Richard Ashburn's career twelve hundred walks, five hundred strikecouts.

959
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: That's kind of insane to think about. Like on base

960
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: percentage four hundred, batting average over three hundred, like he

961
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: had amazing defense center field, like longtime Philly was the

962
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: main stay of the organization and his career in the

963
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two Mets. People forget I snuck up. I

964
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: forget as an All Star ninety sixty alone All Stars.

965
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: The nineteen sixty two Mets hit three zero six as

966
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: a thirty five year old said, you know what, this

967
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: isn't worth it anymore. I've had enough. Like if you

968
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: watch carss Ball Drump play baseball, you were like, that

969
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: guy is different. He is different, and like we got

970
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: the privilege to be able to talk to him last

971
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: year of spring training, and that was the one time

972
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 2: I think I was ever starstruck by anything that we've

973
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: really ever done here, and it's just like he's he

974
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, for us, he was like larger than life,

975
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: Like he was like the first big Mets signing that

976
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: like ushers in a new era of prominence, like and

977
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: he just he was smooth, he was cool, like he

978
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: was he was great.

979
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: He was such a good baseball playing He is a

980
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer for all things considered, one hundred percent.

981
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: That was definitely one of the guys that had beef

982
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: with In terms of the new guys on the list,

983
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: because the old guys, I mean like Andrew Jones, Gary Sheffield,

984
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: Todd Helton, I don't think we really need to talk

985
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: about them too much on a Mets podcast. But with

986
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: the new guys, I feel like for the first year guys,

987
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,720
Speaker 1: Adrian Beltrey, Hall of Famer, correct.

988
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: I think we can agree. Joe Mauer. What do you

989
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: think about Joe Mauer. I don't think he's a Hall

990
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: of Famer. I don't think so either.

991
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: I think very very good, Hall of great, awesome players.

992
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: He's going to be someone who I think, if he

993
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: ever gets in, is going to be like a bit

994
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: of a fight. And I know people are gonna get

995
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: mad at me, But if you look at his numbers,

996
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: he was actually primarily a first baseman DH for his career.

997
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: I know he caught and won the MVP and had

998
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: a disgusting career as a catcher and he had to

999
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: move because of injuries, But you can't look at his

1000
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: career as a whole and say, look at what Joe

1001
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: Maher did as a catcher, because that's just patently false.

1002
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is like he like if we were

1003
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: a Twins podcast, like he would be like the way

1004
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 2: we talk about we just talked about David Wright. Oh

1005
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: for sure, for sure. I mean only they could have like.

1006
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 2: The thing that Mawar does have though, is he did

1007
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: play fifteen years and that career bating average stayed over

1008
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: three hundred.

1009
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: You know a lot of these old guys love three hundred.

1010
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: If you if you get three hundred, you're in the

1011
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame.

1012
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: It's in if you get three for ten, you're one

1013
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: of the best players of all time. That's who he is.

1014
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: And like I don't know, like I Mawer had that

1015
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 2: great moment in time, he just to me just doesn't

1016
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: He's just I don't know. He's just not a Hall

1017
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: of Famer, Like he's just so much he's amazing, Like

1018
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: I don't know who can I compare him to, like conceptually,

1019
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: like in terms of like Hall of Fame, Like I

1020
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: don't even have a clue. I don't even know either,

1021
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: like anything, he's a very rare scenario, honestly, especially in

1022
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: the modern day of like what he was, Yeah, like

1023
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: he never he Also like if Joe Maher would have

1024
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: had like a couple of Buster Posey postseason runs, because

1025
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: I think they're comparable.

1026
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: I think Mauer probably has significantly more volume and probably

1027
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: more Hall of Fame stats, but Posey has more of

1028
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame vibe, you know, I don't.

1029
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: I don't like.

1030
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: I also don't really think Posy's a Hall of Famer,

1031
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: but I think he's a better chance.

1032
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: To get in, Like I think, oh, Posy's gonna get

1033
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: in for sure.

1034
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: I think they're I think the voters, the writers are

1035
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: going to give that giant's dynasty the credit they like

1036
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: the credit of pose Posey and also Bumgardners.

1037
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: Hall of Famers three World series. It's pretty discussed. Let's

1038
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: as the catcher, like as the guy like maw' again

1039
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: like ma, we're for all points, like for all intensive purposes,

1040
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: like does a better career numbers of bus for Posy?

1041
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 2: He simply does, And like there's gonna be a lot

1042
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: of pictures they retire who have much better numbers of

1043
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 2: the messive bum Yes, but they just don't have hardware,

1044
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: and like if we would have stuck his way into one,

1045
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: especially as the Minnesota guy, like the writers love him,

1046
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: like I think he actually is a guy who might

1047
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: sneak in for the story, especially in an organization like

1048
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: the Twins. Yeah, who like getting in the also who cares?

1049
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, but I mean like this this is

1050
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: what they like to do, like the story, like the

1051
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame weekend, all the Twins people go out there.

1052
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: He talks about Minnesota the like they love that stuff.

1053
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: He's a Minnesota guy we know, Minnesota Guymegan. Yeah, she

1054
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: just casually we hung out with this girl that like

1055
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: James knew a friend of or whatever, like had a

1056
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: common friend. We have heard her friends over at our

1057
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: apartment to have like a party, and she's like, yeah,

1058
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: my neighbor's Joe Mauer. We're like, I'm so sorry. What

1059
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: And I think it caught us by so much surprise

1060
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: because we didn't ask any more questions.

1061
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: No. It was also it's also like a few weeks

1062
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: ago we had to watch it. We did watch it.

1063
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: There's also like a few weeks ago where someone was

1064
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: the we mentioned this on the podcast or not.

1065
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think so. She dated then

1066
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: the old White Sox trial manager was like, ohoh Ken Williams. Yeah,

1067
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: dad kill Williamsun High School. Yeah. We're like, no way,

1068
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 2: it's really cool. It's guess I was always around the

1069
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: ball club. She was like, yeah, we were there to

1070
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 2: day they Chris Sale, you know, cut up the jerseys.

1071
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: We were like, wow, that's amazing. She was like, yeah,

1072
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: I have one. We were like what and Mark Mark

1073
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: and I and other friend Ryan. She's like, yeah, have

1074
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: it here under my bed. Like it's like We're like,

1075
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: that's like one of the most niche, unique, incredible piece

1076
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 2: of memorability that exists for our generation of baseball fans.

1077
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: And she was like, I have it under my bed.

1078
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: We were like, literally, what do you want for it? Like,

1079
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 1: I'll give you anything, Like we were throwing around stupid, stupid.

1080
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: She wouldn't say yes to them, But it's it is. Yeah,

1081
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: it's it's funny. It's funny. It's a funny story, baseball,

1082
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: baseball thing's happening.

1083
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: But now Philly John's not here to defend his favorite

1084
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: player of all time. But Chase Utley James, is he

1085
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer?

1086
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: Yes or no? We have to take away the Mets bias.

1087
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: I don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but I

1088
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: think he is on the line, like especially in terms

1089
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: of all time second basement, like he did a lot

1090
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: of things. I just I hate his guts. I don't

1091
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: want to ever experience joy. So I'm gonna keep saying

1092
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: he's not a Hall of Famer. But like, there are

1093
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: a lot of people right now banging the drum, and

1094
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: he feels like a guy that like who's Scott rolling

1095
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: open the door for Yeah, that's why I didn't want

1096
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 2: Scott rolling in. That was your whole long game.

1097
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: It was a long play. Is I don't want to

1098
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: see Chase Utley. I don't even want to see him

1099
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: step foot in the town of Cooperstown. He shouldn't be

1100
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: allowed in the entire town or city, whatever you would

1101
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: call it, the village. I hate this guy's guts, oh

1102
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: more than anybody. Probably I think he's it's him or

1103
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: Roger Clemons. They're both up there as my most hated

1104
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: players ever. Chase Utley did a little more damage to

1105
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: the Mets. Obviously, his numbers are close.

1106
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: I'll give him that.

1107
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: He's super super close, And I think you can make

1108
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: an argument kind of similarly you could make an argument

1109
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 1: to Joe Mauer. But I think that's what separates someone

1110
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: from the Hall of Fame is if you say, like

1111
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: I could make an argument, it should be definitive if

1112
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a Hall of Famer, And to me,

1113
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: it's not definitive that he is one of the best

1114
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: second basemen to ever play the game for the era. Yes,

1115
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: for the talk of major League Baseball history, No shot.

1116
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: It should be a gut thing like it should be

1117
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: a field thing.

1118
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, ugly only has six All Star appearance his entire career.

1119
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: Like that seems like it would be remarkably low for

1120
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer. Yeah. The only thing he ever

1121
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: led the league in were run scored one time, that

1122
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 2: amazing two thousand and six Philly offense. And hit by

1123
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: pitches thrice. Yeah, which we know why he got hit

1124
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: by pitches. He's a jerk. Yeah. Like but again, like

1125
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: then you compare him to a guy like Roberto Alamar, who,

1126
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 2: like I think Chase Utley probably was the better second

1127
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: baseman iner Berta Alamar, Oh, I think he was a

1128
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: much better hitter.

1129
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: That feels like yes and no not really have you

1130
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: seen their numbers?

1131
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at the numbers quite literly.

1132
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: The second Yeah, Roberto Alomar, like eight hundred ops first career,

1133
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: three hundred average three somebody on base.

1134
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 2: How much better of a hitter was Chase Utley? Roberto

1135
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: Almar was a way better fielder, that's right. The fielder

1136
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: at the difference and like like doesn't really have that

1137
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: defensive value. And I think a lot of people, especially

1138
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: in like the internet rhetoric, for these kind of arguments,

1139
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: they want to just look at the guy's hitting where

1140
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: like we know, like in terms of the Hall of Fame,

1141
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: that's only half the game and it was not a

1142
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: very good defensive second baseman. But like I like, I

1143
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: think again he's someone who I just feel like is

1144
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 2: gonna sneak in for that same thing, like when's last

1145
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: time a Philly? When's the last time with the next

1146
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: time a Philly is getting in the Hall of Fame. Like,

1147
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: I guess maybe Bryce Barbari be a Hall of Fame

1148
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: Philly now, which kind of sucks. Maybe I'll make them

1149
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: not do Chase Utley, but like I don't know, Like

1150
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 2: he's just such a rat, Like look at his face,

1151
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: in his hair. He want this guy in the Hall

1152
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: of Fame with that slick. He's the worst.

1153
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: He's also literally bad. He's just literally a bad guy. Yeah,

1154
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: I mean broke Ruben to hot his leg. I'll never

1155
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: forgive him. Shoutout Ruben to Hota. When I met him,

1156
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: I was like, Chase ally breaking, You're like, what do

1157
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: you think?

1158
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: He's like rat rat? I hate him, but I don't

1159
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: want him in. It seems like he might get in,

1160
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: so whatever.

1161
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bartolo Cologne former met James, is he in?

1162
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 2: I probably not. Yeah, No, Bartolo's not in.

1163
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: And he also he got hit for steroids like there's

1164
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: no shotting against it.

1165
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: He also pitch ball left this weekend in Saudi Arabia. Yeah,

1166
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: he pitched for Baseball United. So I mean you still

1167
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: go until again in the bag the Oza from Mets

1168
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: mad libs.

1169
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: Yes, love love Bartolo. He's not getting in. I think

1170
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: this guy deserves a little more conversation. I don't think

1171
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: he is a Hall of Famer. But Matt Holliday put

1172
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: up a great career, great career, not a Hall of Famer,

1173
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: but very very good player, and I think should get

1174
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: a little more respect than what people give him sometimes.

1175
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of very good. Also possibly Hall of Fame

1176
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: genetics with Jackson, Yes, so Jackson. Jackson's a stud.

1177
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: That kid can play another former met here. There's gonna

1178
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: be three in a row here, Adrianganza, Jose Bautista, Jose

1179
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: Rays who gets the most votes out of all of them?

1180
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 2: None of them are making the Hall of Fame agon

1181
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: really yeah, I think so? Yeah, I mean, man, Jose Bautista.

1182
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: Really it's crazy how bad his career was to start

1183
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: and how good of numbers he finished with like the

1184
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: fact that he basically played like six years of baseball

1185
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: and has three hundred and fifty home runs essentially is

1186
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: like kind of crazy. But uh yeah, I think I

1187
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: think Agon's probably that pick too. He was one of

1188
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: the better first basement of the time as well, just

1189
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: consistent close to three hundred every year, and he won

1190
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: an MVP.

1191
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: So Jay Joey Batts.

1192
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, none of those guys are getting in last

1193
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: three first time ballot guys Victor Martinez, James Shields, Brandon Phillips.

1194
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: I recently watched a Brandon Phillips defensive highlight video on YouTube,

1195
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: and I implore all of you to go look it

1196
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: up after you listen to this podcast. I remember him

1197
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: being a great player. I didn't remember just how he

1198
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: had so much swag in the field, like so much

1199
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: like he was. He was making plays that were like

1200
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: borderline unnecessary, like unnecessarily flashy, but man, he looked so.

1201
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: Good and so smooth doing it. He was an awesome player.

1202
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: He was. Vmar was also great in his time. Like

1203
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: V mart had early early run with the Cleveland and

1204
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: then a little bit mixed in the middle. Then he

1205
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: was part of those lows really good Tigers teams in

1206
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 2: the early twenty tens, and he was just a cosmic

1207
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: pro sick hitter. Like he had a three year stretch

1208
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: with the Tigers where he hit three thirty three oh one,

1209
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 2: three thirty five when those teams were like on the

1210
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: doorsteps of World Series. Never been able to get over

1211
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 2: that hump. But another amazing player that was a big

1212
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 2: part of our youth as baseball fans all. A very

1213
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 2: good guy.

1214
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, Haller very good and James Shields, I think

1215
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: he will make the Hall of Fame one day for

1216
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: being a part of one of the worst trades in

1217
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: MLB history, being traded for Fernando Tatist Junior.

1218
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and again episode coming down to an end here,

1219
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: thank you guys. Just as a wrap up for some

1220
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: what we were talking about before. Found two lefties basically

1221
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: in the league who are throwing sweepers as like one

1222
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: of their main offste pitches, Nasty Nester Nest Cortez. But

1223
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: he only threw about twenty percent of them. Two he

1224
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: only threw twenty percent of them to lefties. He was

1225
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: using the lots of rieties and the pitch kind of

1226
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: got smoked. Okay, Yeah, Sean and Ia who threw even

1227
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: the lefties and Rithy's and the pitcher was trade.

1228
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you when you brought the sweeper from the

1229
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: left hand. Sid'm like, I can't really think of a

1230
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: starter that used as a sweeper. Obviously relievers that's different,

1231
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: but starting wise very difficult. Also, there's just not that

1232
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: many starting left handed pitchers either totally.

1233
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: And the thing that made Nester good, I think he's

1234
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: a better comp because he has a fastball similar to

1235
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: e Managa, where he's gonna grow with like those nice

1236
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: physics and try to get guys that's top of his own.

1237
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: He does have the color that is the pitch, so

1238
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: it's fastball color sweeper arsenal, which I think that is

1239
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 2: where Imanaga can find success. Good.

1240
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: Very full circle there, James, well done. Make sure that

1241
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: we tie up all loose ends and that nobody gets

1242
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: left out. Oh, we do have a couple reviews that

1243
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: we want to read. Nice, Yeah, I hit him.

1244
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. This one comes from spell Daddy.

1245
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: Can I read the foot Yeah, I've been listening from

1246
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: the beginning, and you guys know how to put out

1247
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: entertaining content even when I've given up on the team itself.

1248
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: I love the estimate, particularly the ones where you open

1249
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: the competition to followers on social media. I have a

1250
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: suggestion for the twenty twenty four season. Rather than John

1251
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: coming up with all of the questions and only Mark

1252
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: and James answering it, it might be more fun to

1253
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: have a three way competition. Maybe have a rotation in

1254
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: each episode so that everybody gets an equal shot of

1255
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: picking the questions. There's no advantage, and all three make

1256
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: predictions interesting.

1257
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: I mean like that.

1258
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: I like any opportunity we know John's gonna lose, so

1259
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: I like any opportunity where John has to do something embarrassing.

1260
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: We'll run it up the flagpole and see what the

1261
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: head honchos think about that idea.

1262
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they'll never listen to this. He'll never know that. Also,

1263
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: I like the I like the idea of John not

1264
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: just having carte blanche over what these questions are.

1265
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta gotta check them a little bit. John

1266
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: hasn't been on an episode in what three months?

1267
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: So Hollywood, John's got his own podcast, now't worry. Wait.

1268
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: This is the estimate for you viewers at home, or

1269
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: maybe just for us, just for fun. When what month

1270
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: will be the next time that John is on an episode?

1271
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: Is it before twenty twenty four?

1272
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: We might do an in person soon. I feel like

1273
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: he'll try and find his way to get on for

1274
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: that just so we can have you know, you have

1275
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: his face on camera, like you like so much. But

1276
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: if we don't get an in person episode before the

1277
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: new year and next week, is I think the only

1278
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: option because then I'm going to leaving the country. Is

1279
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 2: We're twenty twenty four clear? And it probably likes spring

1280
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 2: like spring training before Valentine's Day? Probably not, He's gonna

1281
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Speaker 2: go down in the beginning of February. That's true. That's true.

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Speaker 2: All right, Job, you've been called out. You'll never know.

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00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: Veto might tell you maybe, but you'll never know if

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Speaker 1: you've been called out or not because you never listened

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Speaker 1: to us.

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Speaker 2: Just kidding. We love you, John.

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Speaker 1: Guys, Thank you so much for listening and watching this

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Speaker 1: episode of The Mets of the podcas As. Remember to

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Speaker 1: follow us on all our social media at mess up

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. Subscribe to the New York

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00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: Mets YouTube channel if you want to see the video

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Speaker 1: version of this and if you're listening to US Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: Google Audyssey, drop US a rating, drop US a review,

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Speaker 1: download and subscribe.

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00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: We do appreciate you. Follow James on Twitter at James

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00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: Underscore Chiano and follow.

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Speaker 1: Me at draffneck Mark with a C. Thank you guys

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Speaker 1: for listening, Thank you for watching it. We'll catch you

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Speaker 1: on the next episode of the Mess Up Podcast. Peace out,

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00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: peace up. See you guys next time.