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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Finally an arrest and the murder of the beautiful young

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Speaker 2: mom Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: It's an arrest that has everyone's attention. Brooks how, Crystal

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Speaker 4: Roger's boyfriend and the main suspect in her disappearance, charged

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Speaker 4: with her murder and tempering with physical evidence. According to

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Speaker 4: the indictment, the charges stem from an incident July fourth

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Speaker 4: weekend of twenty fifteen, just days before Cristel's car was

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Speaker 4: found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass Parkway with

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Speaker 4: her keys, phone, and purse inside. He was named the

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Speaker 4: main suspect within three months, but never charged until today.

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Speaker 2: Why so long you were just hearing our friends in whas.

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Speaker 3: For those of you just joining us in the last.

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Speaker 2: Hours, Finally unarrest in the murder of Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 2: and Serrius XM one eleven. It's been a long time coming.

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Speaker 2: And you know what's so irritating. You know, Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 2: is joining me, director of the Cold Case Research Institute

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Speaker 2: and star of a Hitney series Zone seven. When I

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Speaker 2: hear and I've heard it over and over. It's countless cases,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum quote, everybody knew.

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Speaker 3: I mean since day.

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Speaker 2: One, everyone said, Brooke, how is the killer?

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Speaker 3: Why did it take so long?

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Speaker 2: And to you, Cheryl McCollum, have you ever had those cases?

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Speaker 2: And you have to tell every single witness it doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter what everybody says, because very often what everybody says

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Speaker 2: is not true. That's not the killer. It turns out

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Speaker 2: to be someone completely different. But in this case, it's true.

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Speaker 2: Since the whole thing went down, he has been suspect

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Speaker 2: number one.

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Speaker 5: He's been suspect only one. There hasn't been anybody else.

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Speaker 5: But it's one of those situations. What you know and

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Speaker 5: what you could prove is not the same thing. So

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Speaker 5: they had to be patient. They had to work this

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Speaker 5: case from every angle, which is what they did. They

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Speaker 5: got him once for theft, they got people that were

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Speaker 5: close to him for perjury. They even press Grandma so

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Speaker 5: hard she invoked her Fifth Amendment. So they have worked

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Speaker 5: this thing beautifully, Yeah, as long as they possibly could,

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Speaker 5: until they got to today.

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Speaker 3: You know, Cheryl McCollum, you got to give him credit.

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Speaker 3: It takes a lot of doing to come down so

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Speaker 3: hard on a granny.

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Speaker 2: She takes the fifth right, Okay, that is some serious,

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Speaker 2: serious questioning.

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Speaker 5: Straight up the police work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the last hours, the so called boyfriend of

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Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers has been arrested and it has been a

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Speaker 2: long time coming.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to whas.

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Speaker 4: Eleven federal investigators accused Helk of intentionally causing the death

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Speaker 4: of Crystal Runchers and destroying, concealing, mutilating, or removing physical

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Speaker 4: evidence and connection to the crime. He was arrested without

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Speaker 4: incident while on a job site outside of Bardstown. This

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Speaker 4: was the moment Brooks was put into handcuffs.

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Speaker 6: My phise reaction was just Sherry and her family getting the.

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Speaker 3: Justice that they have fought so much. For joining me

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: Anchor wd RB out of Louisville, Falling Glick.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. Fallin, tell me about

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Speaker 3: the arrest.

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Speaker 7: Well Brooks hawkerr former boyfriend. He was arrested at a

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Speaker 7: work site and then he was then taken to the

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Speaker 7: Nelson County jail. We have video of him and handcuffed

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Speaker 7: walking into the jail. It wasn't there very long, but

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Speaker 7: we did get a booking photo of him, and then

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Speaker 7: he was taken to another county jail called the Harding

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Speaker 7: County Jail, and that is where he is staying currently.

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Speaker 7: And he's not going to get out unless you post

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Speaker 7: that ten million dollar cash only bond.

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Speaker 2: Okay, ten million dollar cash bond, James shell nutt. That's

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Speaker 2: unlike a lot of bonds where you can put, for instance,

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Speaker 2: your house down is collateral, you get one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars bond. You got to come up with ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars money or collateral like a home. But a ten

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Speaker 2: million dollar bond that's not going to happen anytime soon.

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Speaker 6: No, it's not going to happen anytime soon. And you

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Speaker 6: know a lot of times with severe cases you do

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Speaker 6: see a cash bar. But even with a cash bond,

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Speaker 6: that's a pretty high cash bond. They must feel pretty

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Speaker 6: confident in the case that they've got against him, and

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Speaker 6: so much the judge to set the bond that high.

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Speaker 2: I mean, get real, shell nut If the guy has

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Speaker 2: managed to outsmart police for this many years and the

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Speaker 2: disappearance and death of his girlfriend, Crystal Rogers, I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: let him set one toe outside of that jail. House

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Speaker 2: because he could very likely slip away.

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Speaker 6: I wouldn't let him set outside the jail either. You know,

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Speaker 6: this guy has sat and committed potentially a crime against

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Speaker 6: the mother of five children. He's covered it up, He's

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Speaker 6: played games, and this guy's shown he's dangerous and he's

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Speaker 6: a danger to the community.

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Speaker 2: And danger to any potential witnesses. Is why I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: let him out on bond. And you said the case

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Speaker 2: is so severe it.

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Speaker 3: Calls for a high cash bond. What do you mean

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Speaker 3: by that?

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Speaker 2: And what is a cash bond as supposed to a

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Speaker 2: regular Bondshell.

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Speaker 6: Nut, Well, it's severe because he's accused of murdering a

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Speaker 6: mother of five, of potentially covering this murder up taking steps,

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Speaker 6: you know. Additionally, you know, we've got some implications as

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Speaker 6: to involvement in some other situations as well. And the

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Speaker 6: cash bond is set so that the judge can ensure that. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I'm not giving him a no bond, So I'm going

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Speaker 6: to meet the basic constitutional requirements of providing bail. But

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Speaker 6: I will tell you this, if you're going to get out,

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Speaker 6: we're going to be pretty sure that you're coming back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me Q and A with myself for just

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Speaker 2: a moment. James shell Nutt was asked what's the difference

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Speaker 2: in a cash.

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Speaker 3: Bond and regular bond?

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Speaker 2: Again, in regular bond you can put up collateral like

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Speaker 2: the value of your home. You can put up for instance,

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Speaker 2: real estatem and in cash bond you got to have cold,

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Speaker 2: hard cash. Everything else shell nut said was dead on

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Speaker 2: joining me. James shell Nutt a high profile lawyer with

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Speaker 2: the shell Nut firm. He's based in Alabama, but travels

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Speaker 2: all over twenty seven years on metro major case at

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Speaker 2: shell Nut Law Firm dot com. Guys, this has been

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Speaker 2: one long, drawn out investigation. I want you to take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Monica Harkins WDRB.

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Speaker 8: We saw the carull in through the fence. As he

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Speaker 8: got out of the car, I asked, where is Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 8: He didn't say anything. As he entered the back of

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Speaker 8: the jail. The Nelson County jailer was also on hand.

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Speaker 8: You can see that clearly as this unmarked car goes

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Speaker 8: through the gates. Around ten forty five Hawk showed up here,

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Speaker 8: but it was around eight forty.

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Speaker 3: Five this morning.

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Speaker 8: The FBI of Louisville posted about Hawke's arrest Rogers was

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Speaker 8: last seen in July of twenty fifteen. The FBI post

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Speaker 8: saying FBI and KSP have been laser focused on their

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Speaker 8: commitment to hold accountable those that were responsible for the

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Speaker 8: disappearance of Crystal Rogers, saying, quote, today we take a

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Speaker 8: significant step in making good on that promise.

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Speaker 2: You know, Fallon Glick joining me if anchor WDRB we

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Speaker 2: all heard FB I why did the FBI have to

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Speaker 2: be brought in to solve this case? What about local

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Speaker 2: law enforcement? What's the problem, Falling Glick?

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Speaker 7: Well, local law enforcement, the sheriff's office, they have been

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Speaker 7: on this since day one, and I think they just

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Speaker 7: didn't have enough resources to pull this case together. And

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Speaker 7: we know Sherry Valor, the mother of Crystal Rogers, she

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Speaker 7: has been the true champion for her daughter's case, keeping

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Speaker 7: it in the spotlight. And you know, very soon after

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Speaker 7: her daughter disappeared, she asked the FBI to come in,

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Speaker 7: please take over this case, and that didn't happen until

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Speaker 7: five years later. So the FBI, they've been on the

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Speaker 7: case now for three years, and when they come in

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Speaker 7: that late, they have more work to do because they

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Speaker 7: weren't there from day one. And so It has taken

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Speaker 7: a lot of time to pull all this evidence together

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Speaker 7: because we know they've executed so many search warrants at

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Speaker 7: the how family properties, the Hawk family farm. You know,

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Speaker 7: that's a three hundred acre farm, so they have been

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Speaker 7: there several times. And then not too long ago, they

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Speaker 7: were at a home that Brooks House has built and

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Speaker 7: they dug up the driveway collected ton of evidence there.

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Speaker 7: So the evidence that the FBI has had to sort

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Speaker 7: through is unimaginable. I know the prosecutor is saying that

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Speaker 7: they have to turn over two terabytes worth of information

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Speaker 7: in this case, So just a lot to go through here.

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Speaker 7: We don't know what any of that evidence is, but

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Speaker 7: two terrbytes were its.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot.

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Speaker 2: Back to the question Cheryl McCollum joining us from Zone seven,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, I was asking.

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Speaker 3: Why the FEDS had to be brought in. That was

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Speaker 3: the question.

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Speaker 2: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Cheryl McCollum. But didn't

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Speaker 2: the boyfriend have relatives and or friends on the local

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Speaker 2: police force?

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Speaker 9: Correct?

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Speaker 5: Nick a House and he was fired actually for interfering

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Speaker 5: with a police investigation.

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Speaker 2: This investigation, this investigation absolutely so bringing the FBI, I think.

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Speaker 5: Was the right call for a multitude of reasons. It

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Speaker 5: appeared we have a kidnapping because her car was found

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Speaker 5: somewhere else ease and cell phone in purse. So you know,

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Speaker 5: they can do things rapidly that some local law enforcement

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Speaker 5: maybe cannot do. But in this situation, you have someone

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Speaker 5: that was the boyfriend who was the last person to

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Speaker 5: be seen with her alive. He was visiting his family

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Speaker 5: farm with her at the time. And then, you know,

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Speaker 5: we always love this when they say, well I woke

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Speaker 5: up and she was just gone.

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Speaker 3: On as a matter of fact, you're right. But I

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Speaker 3: can tell you one thing.

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Speaker 2: Has anybody ever heard the phrase one bad apple spoils

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Speaker 2: the whole bunch?

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Just Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star

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Speaker 2: of a hitting series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 3: Joe Scott.

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Speaker 2: When you have a police officer on your force that

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Speaker 2: is related to or connected to the suspect, the defendant,

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Speaker 2: the person of interest, any of that, and that person

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Speaker 2: has the opportunity, has been given the opportunity to tamper

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Speaker 2: with evidence, or impede the investigation in any way.

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Speaker 3: You screwed up.

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Speaker 2: The whole kit and kaboodle has screwed up if you

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Speaker 2: have allowed an officer access to information, access to evidence,

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Speaker 2: access or opportunity to pull strings behind the scenes. Oh

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Speaker 2: hgwln Oh that's why you got to have the FBI in.

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Speaker 2: Forget about the cars found in another location, yes, which

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Speaker 2: means a kidnapping, yes, which is under FBI jurisdiction. But

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Speaker 2: still you had a cohort of the defendant on the

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Speaker 2: police force pulling strings.

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Speaker 3: It stinks, Morgan, it stinks.

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Speaker 10: Yes, it does. And here's the thing. When you think

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Speaker 10: about an investigative team, like in this particular case, we

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Speaker 10: have the locals there within a bubble, there within their

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Speaker 10: own investigative bubble, and it's kind of a closed loop

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Speaker 10: where that information kind of circles around within that environment.

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Speaker 10: You got to prosecutor and everybody else that's in there.

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Speaker 10: When you bring in the FBI, they're outside of that bubble.

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Speaker 10: But that's a good thing because their investigation is running parallel.

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Speaker 10: And think about the FBI is this Having worked in

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Speaker 10: many cases with them, they like to get information, but

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Speaker 10: not a lot flows back out of them because they

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Speaker 10: keep their own closed loop.

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Speaker 2: Can I boil that down for you, Joe Scott. They

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Speaker 2: don't give a flying fig what anybody in town thinks.

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Speaker 2: Who's second cousin related to mama's sass and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: They don't care. They're the FBI.

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Speaker 2: They're there to piss you off and make you angry

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Speaker 2: and think, oh bigfoot, and they do the job.

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Speaker 3: You see FBI coming in, it's over, forget it.

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Speaker 10: Well, they know the pressure points and where to apply pressure.

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Speaker 10: And I refer to it many times as the FBI stare.

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Speaker 10: You know when you speak to them, it's not necessarily vacant,

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Speaker 10: but you know that there's nothing that's necessarily going to

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Speaker 10: flow back out. But there's there's kind of a darker,

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Speaker 10: insidious thing with this case that's not being mentioned here.

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Speaker 3: I'll mention it.

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Speaker 10: What is it? It's the homicide of Tommy Ballard.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm getting to that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, lead, but it's all a lead when it

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Speaker 2: comes to this case. Okay, I go very methodically, believe

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Speaker 2: it or not, through the evidence, because that's the way

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Speaker 2: you win a case. You cannot run into a case

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Speaker 2: willy nilly. You have to go in a methodical or

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Speaker 2: first I'm dealing with Crystal, and they were getting to

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Speaker 2: what you just accurately said, Fallon Glick WDRB. What precisely

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Speaker 2: got the boyfriend's brother fired.

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Speaker 7: Well, Nick how Key worked for the Artstown Police Department

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Speaker 7: and the chief there fired him because he was interfering

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Speaker 7: with the investigation. He called the brother during his police

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Speaker 7: interrogation and you could tell he didn't want him talking

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Speaker 7: to police. And in his own investigation, he said he

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Speaker 7: was just doing that to protect his brother because he

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Speaker 7: know how he knows how interrogations work. But the chief

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Speaker 7: didn't like that answer, and so he said, you failed

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Speaker 7: to cooperate, so he fired him.

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Speaker 2: And the investigating body is not that particular police force.

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Speaker 3: The investigative body is who It.

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Speaker 7: Was the Nelson County Sheriff's Office at the time. And

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Speaker 7: Nick hawk Brooks's brother worked for the Barstown City Police Department.

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Speaker 7: But they share a building and then there's you know,

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Speaker 7: there's a wall in between, so they're in the same building.

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Speaker 3: Guys, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 11: Crystal Rodgers, a mother of five, disappeared in July twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 11: In October of that year, the Nelson County. Shaff's office

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Speaker 11: named for boyfriend Brooks Hawk, the main suspect who was

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Speaker 11: never arrested or charged. The FBI ripped up the driveway

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Speaker 11: of a home How built, and just last year, the

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Speaker 11: FBI was back of the Hawk farm for a five

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Speaker 11: day search. On June twenty first of this year, another man,

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Speaker 11: Joseph Lawson, was indicted for tampering with physical evidence in.

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Speaker 3: The Rogers case.

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Speaker 11: On July twenty fourth, Lawson was indicted on a conspiracy

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Speaker 11: to commit murder charge. Lawson's connection to Hawck is not known.

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Speaker 11: We have learned Lawson's dad worked for Halck. On September seventh,

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Speaker 11: Lawson pleaded not guilty in Nelson's Circuit Court.

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Speaker 8: We've reached out to Crystal Rodgers' family. So far, we

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Speaker 8: haven't heard anything other than a couple family members showing

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Speaker 8: up here to say they're happy to see him behind bars.

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Speaker 8: We also heard neighbors yell from their porches saying they

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Speaker 8: were happy to see him go in to this facility.

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Speaker 2: People actually hanging off their porches clapping and yelling, so

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Speaker 2: happy that an arrest has finally been made in the

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Speaker 2: disappearance and death of Crystal Rogers.

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Speaker 3: You were hearing our friends at w d RB.

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Speaker 2: Who is the co defendant, Joseph Lawson back to Fallen

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Speaker 2: Glick and what do we believe his involvement is.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's really still unclear what exactly his involvement was,

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Speaker 7: but we know his father, Steve Lawson, had called Brooks

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Speaker 7: how the night Crystal Crystal disappeared and that phone call.

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Speaker 7: Brooks Hougue was asked about that phone call during his

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Speaker 7: police interrogation, and he didn't really seem to remember what

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Speaker 7: it was about. So he called Steve Lawson and said, hey,

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Speaker 7: do you remember what I was calling you about that night?

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Speaker 7: And he goes, oh, sure, he wanted a number for

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Speaker 7: a house because he built homes and he has all

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Speaker 7: these rental properties. And so it was a late night

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Speaker 7: phone call, only lasted several seconds, and mister Lawson had

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Speaker 7: said he needed something from Crystal. And then the detective asked, well,

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Speaker 7: if Crystal was right with you in the truck, why

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Speaker 7: didn't you just ask her then? And he said, oh,

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Speaker 7: we just figure out Monday what he wanted. So it

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Speaker 7: was it was a suspicious phone call.

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Speaker 2: I find it very very probative to you, Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 2: that this seemingly seeming co defendant, Joseph Lawson was arrested,

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Speaker 2: charged with conspiracy to commit murder and Crystal's disappearance.

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Speaker 3: He of course, is planned not guilty.

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Speaker 2: But now Houke's arrested, do you believe Lawson is talking?

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Speaker 5: I think it's time to make a deal, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: He was only protected as long as they couldn't get

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Speaker 5: to the next person. Well they've done that now, So

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Speaker 5: the first one that talks is going to get the deal.

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Speaker 5: And you've got so many people involved with this thing.

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Speaker 5: Nancy's not just grandma, and you've got Danny Singleton, who

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Speaker 5: was already arrested for thirty eight counts of perjury, so

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Speaker 5: he ain't trying to tell the truth about what happened either.

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Speaker 5: So all these people, you're gonna shake that backet up,

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Speaker 5: and whoever follows out first get for deal.

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Speaker 2: Well, I believe that the authorities are trying to get

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Speaker 2: evidence against the boyfriend. Nobody else had a dog in

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Speaker 2: the fight. Who else would want Crystal Rodgers dead?

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Speaker 5: Others?

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Speaker 6: James, you know, I think it's very interesting, and I

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Speaker 6: think it's probably a good strategy. And I don't think

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Speaker 6: this was by accident that they arrested this lossing guy

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Speaker 6: prior to coming after Holp. I believe that they milked

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Speaker 6: him for every piece of information that they could get

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Speaker 6: out of him, that they built the best case they

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Speaker 6: can with whatever he had to offer, and the strategy

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Speaker 6: that they used was they want the small fish to

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Speaker 6: get to the big fish. That's a common law enforcement tactic.

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Speaker 2: It is quite effective, very effective, and the timing cannot

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Speaker 2: be ignored. First he gets arrested, and then following that,

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Speaker 2: give it a breather, the boyfriend is arrested.

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Speaker 3: No coincid.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of the boyfriend, we of course are talking about

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Speaker 2: Brooks Hawk. Take a listen in our cut two three

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Speaker 2: one what he said to me, Brooks. You go to

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Speaker 2: bed and she's still playing games on her phone. The

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Speaker 2: next morning, around eight o'clock, you notice that she's missing.

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Speaker 3: Did you report her missing?

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Speaker 9: No, ma'am, why That is a great question and one

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Speaker 9: that I definitely want to hear the other public in

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Speaker 9: the media. I was not in the least little bit

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Speaker 9: alarmed in any way.

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Speaker 11: Shape or form.

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Speaker 9: We have had a stress relationship at times, and one

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Speaker 9: of the ways that Crystal has always chose to the

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Speaker 9: Coper to deal with that is going to a young

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Speaker 9: woman's name Sabrina, that is her cousin, her dad brother's daughter,

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Speaker 9: whom she's very close to, that she spent the night

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Speaker 9: there on several occasions.

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Speaker 3: Can you say several? Do you mean one three twenty.

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Speaker 9: In the neighborhood of four to six and you know

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Speaker 9: another thing?

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Speaker 2: To anybody on the panel, jump in, let's try, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Jeff Kalashevski, forensic psychologist, author of Dark Sides.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Klashewski, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I don't recall how being front and center posting flyers,

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Speaker 2: speaking to the press, begging for answers, going on searches.

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Speaker 2: If I'm wrong, anybody jump in and tell me I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: But I find that very very disturbing, doctor Klashewski.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, one thing that's really interesting was how and his brother,

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Speaker 12: for that fact, are not acting like they're very innocent. Typically,

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Speaker 12: if someone's significant other girlfriend is missing, particularly sort of

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Speaker 12: that small town culture, everyone gets involved, everyone's distressed, everyone's worried,

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Speaker 12: and we didn't see that in this case.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, fell in Glick wd Arby.

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Speaker 2: What did we see?

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Speaker 3: What was Hop's reaction? To Crystal going missing.

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Speaker 7: You know, he just didn't seem concerned really at all.

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Speaker 7: And everyone questioned, Will, why aren't you helping with any

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Speaker 7: of these searches because there were so many, and he

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Speaker 7: said he was conducting his own on his own time.

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Speaker 7: But still nobody saw any of that. You know, I

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Speaker 7: asked him a few years ago. I had called him

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Speaker 7: up because you know, we had never talked to him.

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Speaker 7: He doesn't do interview so I did a phone interview

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Speaker 7: with him, and I said, why don't you do anything.

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Speaker 7: You know, it's been a few years your girlfriend, you

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Speaker 7: had a child with this woman. You don't seem to

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Speaker 7: care at all. And he said he had been advised

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Speaker 7: to ride the wave and keep riding the wave, and

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Speaker 7: he said that has worked out great for him thus far.

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Speaker 3: Well, you've just given me so much information.

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Speaker 2: Fouling Gli joining us WDRB ride the way it's worked

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Speaker 2: out well for him. Me me, me, me, me, me

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Speaker 2: me me. Is that all this guy cares about? Isn't

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Speaker 2: that called a narcissist? Doctor Tealoshevsky, Yes, I saw.

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Speaker 12: That, and that's one of the first things that I thought.

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Speaker 12: You know, narcissists are quite famous for they think they

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Speaker 12: know everything, and they think they have control over everything,

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Speaker 12: and they're sort of not connected with reality and recognizing

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Speaker 12: that the way they're behaving or not behaving may seem

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Speaker 12: odd or suspect to others, they think, if this is

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Speaker 12: the way that I'm going to behave, then it's the

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Speaker 12: right way to behave. Another point I want to make too,

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Speaker 12: is what's interesting is that they don't want to give

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Speaker 12: any tips to people who are planning murders. But when

403
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Speaker 12: you see people who commit a murder and then they

404
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 12: try to act in a certain way, they get very

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Speaker 12: focused on acting in ways that does not make them

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Speaker 12: look guilty. But the piece they forget is they don't

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Speaker 12: act in ways that make them look innocent. And I

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00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 12: think that was demonstrated in this case where Houck was

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Speaker 12: not involved. Did not seem very concerned about his girlfriend.

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Speaker 3: Missing Ride the Wave.

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Speaker 2: I don't really know what that means ride the Wave,

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Speaker 2: and his strategy of doing nothing to find the mother

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Speaker 2: of his child was quote working out for him. Well,

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Speaker 2: you heard part of what how told me. Take a

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Speaker 2: listen now to what we know about his police interview

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Speaker 2: Cut two two nine WDRB.

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Speaker 13: Hou's police interview when investigators questioned him right after Rogers

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Speaker 13: disappeared in July twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 4: Do you know anybody did would want to hear?

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Speaker 10: I mean as far as I those a well while Blumers,

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Speaker 10: I know that.

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Speaker 13: Police also question how could the time about his relationship

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Speaker 13: with Rogers and whether they were splitting up. They were

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Speaker 13: dating and living together. He says, if they ever talked

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Speaker 13: about splitting up, they would always make up and find

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Speaker 13: themselves back together.

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Speaker 14: Well, did I not tell you when you come in

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Speaker 14: here and say down today that right now you're the

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Speaker 14: main person of injury?

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Speaker 9: So sorry?

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Speaker 14: And I explained to you the reason that you're the

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Speaker 14: main person of interest, right you're the last person to

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Speaker 14: see your life right. And I went through your timeline

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Speaker 14: with you and explained to you that there's gaps in

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Speaker 14: your timeline, right, be it good, bad, or indifferent. You

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Speaker 14: can't remember some things about Saturday. You can't remember some

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Speaker 14: things about Sunday. That's not a judgment against you, that's

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Speaker 14: just a fact.

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Speaker 2: Can't remember what he was doing around the time that

440
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: his girlfriend goes missing. And by the way, she's dead,

441
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: her car, her cell phone, her purse found in another location.

442
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: How did that happen?

443
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace James.

444
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: Shell Nutt, a high profile lawyer joining us from the

445
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: shell nut Law Firm dot com. As much as it

446
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: pains me to remember, I remember every exact thing around

447
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: the time my fiancee was killed.

448
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: Everything. I remember the morning leading up to it. I

449
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 3: remember the.

450
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: PJS I had on standing outside and it was cold

451
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: that morning, and the early morning when I waved goodbye

452
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: to him as he left. I remember him driving away

453
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: and throwing his left hand out of his car, waving goodbye.

454
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: And I remember going to school and taking a statistics

455
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: exam and coming out and walking across campus and stopping

456
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: at a payphone to call the library where I worked

457
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 2: to tell them I was late from the exam. I

458
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: remember it crystal clear, like it just happened yesterday.

459
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 3: How could he.

460
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 2: Lose big chun of time around in his memory when

461
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: his girlfriend goes missing.

462
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 6: Well, he didn't lose chunks of time. They're in his memory.

463
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 6: He knows exactly what he's just lying about him. He's

464
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 6: lying about him because they don't benefit him. You know,

465
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 6: this interview was a gold mine of information. It was

466
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 6: the missing chunks, which is a red flag to investigators

467
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 6: and not to mention the fact that he sits through

468
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 6: the first hour of this interview just as a matter

469
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 6: of fact and motionless talking about how this is going

470
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 6: to affect him, is creating extra work for him to

471
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 6: care for their child. Plus he can't remember all these facts.

472
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 6: There's nothing that was said by Brooks Hawk that would

473
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 6: lead you to believe that he was innocent in this interview,

474
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 6: and there's all kinds of red flags that he's.

475
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: Not to doctor Jeff Kalshewsky, forensic psychologist and author of

476
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: Dark Side Way.

477
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 12: In So, one of the things when people are trying

478
00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 12: to recollect and experience or an incident, when you are

479
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 12: trying to fabricate it in your mind in the moment,

480
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 12: in other words, you're trying to create the lives during

481
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 12: the moment. You're going to miss things. You're going to

482
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 12: have these blocks of times. You may have went into

483
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 12: that interview already having your lie planned out in your head,

484
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 12: but once you're under in police police interrogation, they're going

485
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 12: to ask you questions you didn't anticipate and that you

486
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 12: had not created the false answer for. So it's quite

487
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 12: hallmark when a suspect is in an interrogation and they

488
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 12: are guilty. They're not going to know how to answer

489
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 12: many of these questions. They're going to show blocks of times,

490
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 12: they're going to have incomplete answers and sometimes even contradict themselves.

491
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: I also question Britton.

492
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: How about his reaction when Christalton didn't show up to

493
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: a get together a July fourth get together is let

494
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: me just say, nonchalant, and that's certainly putting perfume on

495
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: the pig Listen Brooks, did you go on to the

496
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: July the fourth get.

497
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 3: Together that day? Yes? I did, even though you didn't

498
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 3: know where she was.

499
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 15: I was expecting I putting in a phone call that

500
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 15: morning and then around lunch, and usually the miximum period

501
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 15: of time that she has stayed gone that it has

502
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 15: only been like a day to a day and a

503
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 15: half of the most and as a result of that,

504
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 15: I thought that she would Did you try to call her?

505
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 15: I'm sorry I didn't hear you, ma'am.

506
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: Did you try to call her during that time?

507
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 15: Not while I was there there at the at the

508
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 15: fourth and I called her prior to leaving the head

509
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 15: in that direction, yes, ma'am.

510
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: So when she doesn't show up to a party, a

511
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: big party, that Crystal was supposed to attend, but she

512
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 2: doesn't show up. He does nothing. I mean, Cheryl McCollum.

513
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: The other night, the Twins school had a get together

514
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 2: of parents, and David was going to meet me there separately.

515
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: And you know what else, Tonight there's a football game,

516
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: and whether I know what's going on or not, I

517
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: go to the football games, and David usually meets me

518
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: there because we're coming from two different directions. If he

519
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: hadn't shown up at that parent get together when he

520
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: told me he was going to be there, or if

521
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: he didn't show up at a football game, you don't

522
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: think I would get out of those stands or leave

523
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: that get together and get on every phone I've got,

524
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: including my iPad, FaceTime, the Twins phones, your phone, Jackie's phone,

525
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: any phone I could get and start calling and try

526
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: to find him. Track him on Life three sixty, seeve

527
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: he's had a wreck, See if something's happened to him.

528
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: But this guy did nothing, he's saying, eh, No, I.

529
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 5: Didn't try own an investigation, Nancy. I usually keep two lists,

530
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 5: what they did and what they didn't do. This list

531
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 5: of what he did not do. He didn't report her,

532
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 5: missing her mama did. He doesn't call around her family

533
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 5: and everybody else saying, hey, where is she? We got

534
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 5: these five kids, somebody needs to help me take care

535
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 5: of He didn't do that. He don't search for her.

536
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 5: He don't demand that the police helped find her. He

537
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 5: does it even today, demand that the police find the

538
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 5: real killer. He's not making a plea right now saying

539
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 5: y'all got the wrong person.

540
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: You know what you know who you're reminded me of

541
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: right now, A friend of both of ours, and that's

542
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: smart Klass. When his daughter Pauli went missing and the

543
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: police come bamming down on his door. Pauli ben at

544
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: to spend the night party at her home with her

545
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: mom and she was taken by a complete depraved pervert.

546
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: She was horribly assaulted and murdered. So in the middle

547
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: of him trying to figure out where is my daughter?

548
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: The police or come on, come on, let's go. We

549
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: want your fingerprints, you want your DNA, we want to

550
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: know we hereabouts, we want to search your place. It's like,

551
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: do it, take me, take me to the police station,

552
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: do what you gotta do, but just find my daughter.

553
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: He didn't care. He didn't care what they did.

554
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: Then, Now, let's think about the exact polar opposite, Scott Peterson.

555
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: What did he do?

556
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: He got on the phone with his girlfriend, who didn't

557
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: even know he was married.

558
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 3: Saying, Hey, I'm in Paris.

559
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: What we're celebrating New Year's I'm with my friends.

560
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: Okay, that story stunk to high Heaven to start with.

561
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: But that said, what did he do? He got to Lion.

562
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: He didn't get to the police station to help. He

563
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: got to lying and then goes on TV and says

564
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: she was wonderful in other words like he already knows

565
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: she's dead. And you know who called nine one one

566
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: in this case fell Glick WDRB who called to report

567
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: her missing?

568
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 7: Oh, it was the mom, Scarry Balor. She called her

569
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 7: and reported her missing. And that same day she dogrooks

570
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 7: how kind of parking live somewhere? Because they just always

571
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 7: seemed to run into each other. It's a small town,

572
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 7: and he just seemed very unconcerned that she was in

573
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 7: fact missing. And I want to point out too, when

574
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 7: you're kind of talking about it, just not answering questions

575
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 7: during the interrogation, and police have said about him and

576
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 7: his brother, they both had convenient cases of amnesia because

577
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 7: whenever they asked about something unrelated to Crystal, they gave

578
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 7: very detailed answers.

579
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime they could trash Crystal, you mean, anytime they

580
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: could say something bad about her, they would. They had

581
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: all that memorize, all of her movements were memorized, but

582
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: they couldn't say a thing about their what their movements

583
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: were during their lapses of memory. Please do is this,

584
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: doctor Jeff Kelishewski, Because you know what's odd, Doctor Kelishevski,

585
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: is right around the time that Keith was murdered my fiance,

586
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: I remember it very clearly, but as time moves forward,

587
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: like it's really hard for me to remember what happened.

588
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: And at the funeral, I just remember little glimpses of it.

589
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: At the murder trial, I remember it's like someone's running

590
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: a movie and then the screen goes dark, and then

591
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: you see another glimpse, and then it goes dark again.

592
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: But I remember everything very clearly about the time surrounding

593
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: his death. What do you make of both he and

594
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: his brothers lapses in memory?

595
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 12: Right, So when we're faced with an intense trauma like

596
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 12: what you just shared of your experience, it's not uncommon

597
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 12: for us to sort of blank some of that out

598
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 12: or block some of that out. When it's not a

599
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 12: traumatic event. We have a much better and sharper memory. Now.

600
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 12: In this case, you know, with Hope, he had very

601
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 12: much rehearsed answers, and we saw that in the clip

602
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 12: that you played when you spoke with him on the phone,

603
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 12: when he started to talk about how she'd be gone

604
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 12: for a day or a day and a half, that

605
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 12: was quite rehearsed. He even said it very monotone when

606
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 12: you asked him, did you call her? That wasn't a

607
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 12: a question that he anticipated and he didn't have a

608
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 12: prepared answer for. Another theory can be that, and I've

609
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 12: talked about this on your podcast before, when people do

610
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 12: carry out a murder, there's a lot of emotions that

611
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 12: they didn't anticipate and they didn't expect, and sometimes remembering

612
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 12: the details of what actually went down may not be

613
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 12: very clear, But in this case it was. It sounds

614
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 12: more like it was intentionally not being prepared with an

615
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 12: answer for specific questions about details and blocks of time

616
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 12: that the police asked and that you asked him when

617
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 12: you had a conversation with him.

618
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 2: That's what I love so much about cross examination. James

619
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: shell Nutt, high profile lawyer joining us in Michelle law

620
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: firm dot com, is that I love to cross examine

621
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: and go out of order with the target on the stand.

622
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: To get them all.

623
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: Confee is not start chronologically, go out of order, be

624
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: on one subject, then go to another subject, then go

625
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: back to the first subject. Anything where they can't prepare

626
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 2: a rehearsed answer, ask them questions about things, the things

627
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: they don't expect to be asked about. And that's exactly

628
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: what Kalashewski is saying, because it's true. Did you notice

629
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 2: he had one rehearsed answer but then it was thrown

630
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: a boomerang. It came back to hit him right in

631
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: the neck. He didn't have an answer ready, No.

632
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 6: He didn't. And that's a great tactic. I've used that

633
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 6: tactic many times as well. It's quite effective, you know,

634
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 6: Or to pick a topic that is really kind of

635
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 6: the consequential, to start hammering on that right out of

636
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 6: the gate, anything to get them out of that train

637
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: of throat. You know, they put this lie together chronologically

638
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 6: in their head, and once you start getting out that

639
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 6: chronological order of how they've arranged this line in their head.

640
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 6: It starts to fall apart.

641
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: Of the Thames, is the death of Crystal Rogers connected

642
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: to a bigger picture. Take a list to our cut

643
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: two one two whas eleven.

644
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 4: They are three of Kentucky's most high profile unsolved cases.

645
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 4: The ambush killing of Bardstown police officer Jason Ellis, disappearance

646
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 4: of mother of five Crystal Rogers, and fatal shooting of Rogers' dad,

647
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: Tommy Baller. The FBI previously made it clear they are

648
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 4: the lead on the Rogers case, but investigating all three.

649
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: Saying this in a one on one interview back in

650
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 4: twenty twenty, it is.

651
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 10: Very rare to have all of these types of cases

652
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 10: which are potentially connected in a small community.

653
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 2: To Cheryl McCollum, what would the connection of the other

654
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: cases be two Crystal Rogers?

655
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 5: Nancy, Again, I think we have to look at all

656
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: of these people that are connected. So you've got Brooks,

657
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 5: You've got his brother, You've got the coworker and his father,

658
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 5: You've got grandma, you got Singleton. All of these people

659
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 5: have things in common, whether it's making phone calls, the perjury,

660
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 5: the fifth, the lion, you know, the keeping these secrets

661
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 5: since two thoy fifteen. So you have to wonder why

662
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 5: would Singleton get thirty eight charges of perjury, Why would

663
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 5: this coworker accept these phone calls but then not tell anybody?

664
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 5: Why are they talking about these rental properties?

665
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 6: So all of.

666
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 5: These dots, you're going to have to connect with these

667
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 5: people that chose for eight years to not come forward,

668
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 5: not tell what they know, but dig themselves into.

669
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 3: A deeper hole.

670
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: To you, Fan and Glick, what is the possible connection

671
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: between Crystal Rogers case and the other murders.

672
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 7: So family and a lot of the community, they believe

673
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 7: that Tommy Ballard, Crystal's dad, was so involved in trying

674
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 7: to find Crystal and doing his own interrogation and investigation

675
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 7: to find his daughter. They believe that Tommy Ballard probably

676
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 7: would have been yarded it out himself. And they believe

677
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 7: that he was killed because maybe he was getting close

678
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 7: to finding something out that he shouldn't have. And then

679
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 7: the days leading up to his death, Sherry Ballard, his wife,

680
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 7: said he felt like he was being.

681
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: Followed And what about the law enforcement officer.

682
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 7: Sure Nick how who he talked about, who got fired

683
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 7: by the police chief. He worked the same shift as

684
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 7: Jason Ellis who was ambushed and killed on his drive

685
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 7: home from work one night when he saw some debris

686
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 7: on the road, got out to move these tree limbs

687
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 7: off the road, and that's when he got shot multiple

688
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 7: times and.

689
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 3: Killed execution style.

690
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: And he worked on the same shift with the definite

691
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 2: boyfriend's brother on the force. Wonder what he knew from

692
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: working that shift. Wonder what if anything he knew. We

693
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: wait all of these facts unfold. Goodbye sound