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Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know

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Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's

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Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die

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Speaker 1: before you die, then you can really live. There's a

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Speaker 1: wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And

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Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat. I am the host,

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Speaker 1: and if you are new here, I like to start

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Speaker 1: every episode off with a quick reminder that although I

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Speaker 1: am a therapist, and although this podcast is called You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy, it does not serve as a replacement or

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Speaker 1: a substitute for any actual mental health services. However, we

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Speaker 1: always hope that it can help you in some way

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Speaker 1: on whatever journey life finds you on. So today we

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Speaker 1: are going to do a solo episode. It's just me

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to talk about something that recently happened

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Speaker 1: to me, and I'm going to share something with you

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Speaker 1: that I recently learned because it has really made a

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Speaker 1: big difference in how I am looking at certain things

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Speaker 1: in my life, and I think that it could be

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Speaker 1: really helpful for you guys as well. So two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: I was getting ready to host a Mastermind meeting with

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Speaker 1: all of the women that are involved in the podcast

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Speaker 1: network that I am a part of. The podcast network

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Speaker 1: is the Amy Brown Network, which is a part of

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Speaker 1: iHeart Media, and it's just a really great group of

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Speaker 1: women who all have different gifts and talents, but also

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Speaker 1: have a really thirsty and excited heart for helping other people.

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Speaker 1: A really good group of people like minded with a

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Speaker 1: lot of differences as well, and a group of people

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Speaker 1: that can be very open with people that are different

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Speaker 1: from them. So I was in charge of this specific

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Speaker 1: meeting and I had planned an entire hour out over

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Speaker 1: a specific topic, and that topic was going to be

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Speaker 1: the seven Primal Questions. So if you are unfamiliar with

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Speaker 1: what that is, it is a system and personality type

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Speaker 1: test that Mike Foster came out with, who was on

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Speaker 1: this podcast a couple of months ago, to talk about

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Speaker 1: this new it's a book too, this new thing that

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Speaker 1: he created, and I was going to bring this to

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Speaker 1: the group because I love all of the content that

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Speaker 1: Mike has created around this and it has been very

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Speaker 1: fruitful and helpful in my own life. If you are

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Speaker 1: not familiar with it, I highly recommend go listen to

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Speaker 1: that episode with Mike Foster, the Seven Primal Questions. So

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Speaker 1: I had planned a whole hour of content around going

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Speaker 1: over some of this and then some activities that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do around the content that I was bringing

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Speaker 1: that I was teaching. Then something happened. I was scrolling TikTok,

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Speaker 1: as one does when they have a random ten minutes

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Speaker 1: to spare, and I came across this video of Simon Sinek,

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Speaker 1: which I could be saying his name wrong, because I

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Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever heard anybody say his name.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how you say it. But I came

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Speaker 1: around this video of his and I had seen some

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Speaker 1: of his videos before, and I've saved some of his

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Speaker 1: quotes and stuff, but I actually didn't really know anything

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Speaker 1: about him other than he talks about business a lot,

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Speaker 1: and he talks about leadership a lot, and he seems

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Speaker 1: really smart. So I got stucked into this video and

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Speaker 1: I had this knee jerk reaction, which was to first

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Speaker 1: send it to Amy, who was going to be a

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Speaker 1: part of this Mastermind. But really I was sending it

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Speaker 1: to her as an idea for a conversation on the

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Speaker 1: fifth thing. So I sent it to her, and then

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Speaker 1: I sat there for a second, and then I hopped

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Speaker 1: on this zoom call and went completely rogue, which I

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Speaker 1: want to say is out of the ordinary for me,

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Speaker 1: but I think that I actually go rogue more often

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Speaker 1: than I realize. And there was this sensation inside of

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Speaker 1: me that said, this feels more important right now. And

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Speaker 1: I want to start this episode off by talking about

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Speaker 1: the permission we need to give ourselves more often to

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Speaker 1: change the plan. When we focus on the plan way

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Speaker 1: too much out when we do what we are supposed

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Speaker 1: to do in quotes versus allow ourselves to take inventory

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Speaker 1: of what would actually be the best in any given situation,

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Speaker 1: we really miss out and following the plan for the

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Speaker 1: simple sake of following the plan can be very problematic.

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Speaker 1: When we gain new information or when we have a

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Speaker 1: new experience. I want us to start asking ourselves questions like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what might this change? Does this experience call for any edits,

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Speaker 1: any lane shifts, any course adjustments or corrections. Following a

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Speaker 1: plan may give us a false sense of safety, but

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Speaker 1: safety doesn't always feel comfortable. Even though we get this confused,

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Speaker 1: following a plan might feel very comfortable, but being comfortable

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Speaker 1: doesn't always mean we are safe. Think about it in sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big sports girl these days because the red

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Speaker 1: zone plays for eight hours in my home every single Sunday.

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Speaker 1: So imagine that you have this plan of attack. It's

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Speaker 1: football game. If this plan of attack, maybe your strategy

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Speaker 1: is to run the ball versus throw it a lot

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Speaker 1: because the team that you're playing historically is I don't know,

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Speaker 1: really great at interceptions. I should have used a different sport,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, you get the point. So then you get

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Speaker 1: into the game and you realize that the team has

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Speaker 1: advanced their ability to let's say tackle or run through

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Speaker 1: the line to sack the quarterback. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the actual strategies would be in football. But the point

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Speaker 1: is you aren't able to run the ball because what

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Speaker 1: you thought this team's advantage was actually they're really great

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Speaker 1: at this other thing. Maybe they worked at this on

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Speaker 1: this other thing. And so do you still end up

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Speaker 1: running the ball because that's what the plants? Well, we're

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Speaker 1: still going to run these specific plays even though they're

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Speaker 1: not working. We're still going to do this because we

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Speaker 1: said that we're going to do this. Or do you

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Speaker 1: call a timeout and reassess us the next play and

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Speaker 1: switch it up a little bit. Another example of this

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Speaker 1: that might make a little bit more sense because that

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Speaker 1: was me trying to really be more footballly than I am.

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Speaker 1: If that sentence does even clue you in, then I'm

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Speaker 1: not anyway. So another example would be, let's say you

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Speaker 1: are dating and you're preparing to go on a date

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Speaker 1: with a new guy that you met on a dating app.

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Speaker 1: And let's say you're talking about this date with a

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Speaker 1: friend and you show him a picture and you like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is him, I'm so excited, And your friend says

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Speaker 1: that she actually knows that guy and he's in a active

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Speaker 1: relationship with somebody publicly. Do you still go out with

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Speaker 1: him because that was the plan. Or do you call

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Speaker 1: off the date and spend the evening with a friend

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Speaker 1: or doing something you love, or actually, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you just end up doing nothing that night and relax

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Speaker 1: knowing that you just save yourself a lot of chaos,

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Speaker 1: or do you go on that date anyway, you see

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, when we get more information, it's

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Speaker 1: really important for us to be able to be flexible.

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Speaker 1: Plans are great, and we need to create some space

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Speaker 1: to be flexible when it's necessary. So I want to

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Speaker 1: go back to me going rogue on this call. So

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Speaker 1: what I'm going to do today is share with you

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Speaker 1: the idea that sparked a really, really beautiful conversation with

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Speaker 1: our group on this mastermind. And to be fair, this

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Speaker 1: could have totally flopped and they could have all been like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've heard this before, or I think this is dumb,

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Speaker 1: or not have been open to answering some of the

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Speaker 1: questions that I had. But that didn't happen, and it

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Speaker 1: actually created such a wonderful space that I don't know

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Speaker 1: would have been created if I would have gone with

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Speaker 1: the original plan. So I'm giving you a testament of

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Speaker 1: sometimes switching it up really does work out, and this

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Speaker 1: is an example of when it did. Sometimes we just

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Speaker 1: need that data that we're going to be okay. Right,

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Speaker 1: we can go Rogan, We'll be okay. So what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to do is I'm going to actually also put

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Speaker 1: the video that I watched in the show notes because

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Speaker 1: I going to skip over some stuff. If you want

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Speaker 1: to go back and follow Simon, or follow the creator

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Speaker 1: that put this video out, or just listen to this

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Speaker 1: and have us in your back pocket, maybe share with

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Speaker 1: your friends, create conversations around that, you can do that.

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Speaker 1: So this was a short video about nine ten minutes

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Speaker 1: and it was of Simon Sinek giving a talk on

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Speaker 1: a book he actually wrote called The Infinite Game. So

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Speaker 1: in this talk he describes that in game theory, there

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Speaker 1: are two types of games that people play. So this

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Speaker 1: was a short video about nine ten minutes and it

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Speaker 1: was of Simon Sinek giving a talk on a book

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Speaker 1: he actually wrote called The Infinite Game. So in this

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Speaker 1: talk he describes that in game theory, there are two

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Speaker 1: types of games that people play. There are infinite games

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Speaker 1: and there are finite games. So finite games are defined

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Speaker 1: by having known players fixed rules and an agreed upon objective.

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Speaker 1: So Simon used baseball as a way to describe what

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Speaker 1: a finite game looks like. There is a mutual agreeance

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Speaker 1: on the rules of baseball, and at the end of

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Speaker 1: the game, which from what I know is nine innings,

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Speaker 1: whoever has more runs wins. There's nobody coming back around

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Speaker 1: being like, well, no, we're going to play a couple

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Speaker 1: more because we think we can beat them. Like after

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Speaker 1: the nine innings, there's a winner and there's a loser.

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Speaker 1: Finite games have winners and losers. Infinite games, on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, are defined as having known and unknown players,

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Speaker 1: so you know some of them, you don't know some

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Speaker 1: of the other ones. The rules are changeable, and the

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Speaker 1: goal is not to win, it's to perpetuate the game.

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Speaker 1: The goal is just to make the game last. Now,

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Speaker 1: since there are no winners and losers in an infinite game,

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Speaker 1: what happens a lot of times is eventually players will

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Speaker 1: drop out when they run out of resources or energy,

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Speaker 1: and then another player will come and replace them and

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Speaker 1: the game continues to keep going. It's not like I

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Speaker 1: dropped out, so you one I drop out, somebody replaces me.

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Speaker 1: So when there are two finite players against each other,

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Speaker 1: the system of the game is stable, and when there

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Speaker 1: are two infinite players against each other, the stability of

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Speaker 1: that game also exists. However, when you put a finite

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Speaker 1: player against an infinite player, some friction happens. So both

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Speaker 1: of these games can operate independently and run fine in

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Speaker 1: their own sectors. But when you cross the paths of

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Speaker 1: an infinite player and a finite player, friction happens. And

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Speaker 1: what that friction looks like is a lot of frustration

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Speaker 1: for the finite player, because the finite player is going

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Speaker 1: to play to win, and the infinite player is going

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Speaker 1: to play to keep the game going, which is the

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Speaker 1: literal opposite of what the finite player is trying to do,

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Speaker 1: and so you can see how that might create some frustration.

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Speaker 1: He then takes this idea of these two games and

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Speaker 1: he uses them to describe the game of business, which

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Speaker 1: we all are somewhat a part of, right, and is

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Speaker 1: an infinite game. The game of business. Business has existed forever,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to exist after we're gone. It's nobody's

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Speaker 1: gonna win business. He said that if you listen to

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Speaker 1: the words of a lot of companies, most companies. If

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Speaker 1: you listen to the words that they use to describe

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Speaker 1: themselves and to promote themselves, it looks and sounds like

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Speaker 1: they actually don't know what game they are playing. So

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Speaker 1: these things that you would hear are things like we

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Speaker 1: are number one and we outdd our competition and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. So they're in an infinite game, but those

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Speaker 1: words sound like they are playing a finite game. How

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Speaker 1: can you be number one an infinite game? You can't.

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Speaker 1: In the game of business, there aren't any universally agreed

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Speaker 1: upon rules or metrics for establishing rankings and winners and losers,

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Speaker 1: and so you can't just call yourself number one because

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really mean anything, like what do you mean

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Speaker 1: you're number one? Like, what does that actually mean? What

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Speaker 1: metrics can I look at that actually help me make

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Speaker 1: sense of that? And there could be a bajillion different

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Speaker 1: types of metrics like how big your company is, how

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Speaker 1: much revenue you bring in, how much net income you

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Speaker 1: bring up, how much growth you have, how much product

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Speaker 1: you sell, how much retention, like there are so many

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Speaker 1: different things, and so you can see how that's very confusing.

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Speaker 1: So Simon then shares with us that apparently the great

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Speaker 1: businesses that we know and have known are not focused

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Speaker 1: on winning the game and or being number one. They

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Speaker 1: are focused on staying in the game that they're playing.

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Speaker 1: He postures that understanding what kind of game you're in

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Speaker 1: dramatically changes three things, the kinds of decisions you make,

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Speaker 1: how you see the world, and what your confidence looks like.

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Speaker 1: And I find this part really interesting because think about

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Speaker 1: the businesses or spaces that you've been in where you're

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Speaker 1: playing a finite game, but the game is actually infinite, right,

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Speaker 1: So I know when I'm playing a finite game, there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of hustle and bustle in my brain

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Speaker 1: to be paying attention to my competition, to be looking

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Speaker 1: at what they're doing, to be making sure I'm always

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Speaker 1: a step ahead and being worried if I'm a step behind.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of energy in that that influences the

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Speaker 1: decisions I make. They're not so much made based on

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Speaker 1: just me and what I want for myself and my business.

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Speaker 1: They're based on what other people are doing. They're based

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Speaker 1: on how to get ahead versus how to be good,

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Speaker 1: how to be great, And they shape how I feel

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Speaker 1: about myself. They shape how I feel about what i'm doing.

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Speaker 1: They shape how I feel about my success, and that's

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Speaker 1: where that confidence part comes in. So if I'm playing

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Speaker 1: a finite game in an infinite game, my confidence is

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Speaker 1: going to continue to be punched and pushed at and

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Speaker 1: messed with for possibly no good reason. So it's really

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Speaker 1: important to remember that the one who's playing the finite

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Speaker 1: game when they're in an infinite game is the one

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Speaker 1: that gets frustrated, not the team that someone is trying

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Speaker 1: to beat. Your competition might not be frustrated because they

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Speaker 1: might not be paying attention to you, even if they

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Speaker 1: are ahead of you in whatever made up metric you've created.

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Speaker 1: You're the one that gets frustrated. The infinite player understands

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Speaker 1: that sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're winning, sometimes you're behind,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you're losing. Because the goal isn't to be the best.

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Speaker 1: It's not to outdo the other people, their neighbors, their

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Speaker 1: old partners, their boss. They didn't like that at their

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Speaker 1: old company. They're not looking to outdo any of their

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Speaker 1: so called competition because their competition actually is themselves. Where

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Speaker 1: finite players play to beat the people around them. Infinite

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Speaker 1: players play to be better than themselves. They play to

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Speaker 1: beat the version of themselves that they were yesterday. And

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Speaker 1: this is where I was like, well, we are not

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Speaker 1: just talking about large corporations here. He is talking about me.

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Speaker 1: He is talking about you. He is talking about all

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Speaker 1: the little finite games we make up in our head

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Speaker 1: all of the time, the infinite games that we are

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Speaker 1: all in when we think that we're in finite games

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Speaker 1: are not about being better than other people. They are

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Speaker 1: about continuing to be a better version of ourselves. And

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Speaker 1: it's about how we make the work we're doing today

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Speaker 1: better than the work that we produced yesterday, which allows

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Speaker 1: ourselves to grow versus whin a fake competition we made

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Speaker 1: up in our head. And Simon touches on this, and

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Speaker 1: I agree with it wholeheartedly that humans love comparing. We

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Speaker 1: love competition, and we love ranking systems, even though most

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Speaker 1: of them are meaningless and arbitrary. And we know this,

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Speaker 1: knowing this, we still want to be on those lists.

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Speaker 1: And I'll be the first to admit that I know,

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Speaker 1: I know this feeling to my core. I know that

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Speaker 1: these kinds of awards and lists are somewhat meaningless, but

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Speaker 1: I would still rather be on them than not on them.

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Speaker 1: For example, there is this competition in Nashville called the

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Speaker 1: National Fit Awards. It's fitness magazine puts on this competition

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Speaker 1: every single year, and they actually just did the voting

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Speaker 1: for those and last year Uned Therapy won the competition

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Speaker 1: for best Podcast and I got second for best Mental

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Speaker 1: Health Professional. And I've actually been on that list as

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Speaker 1: like part of the top three mental health professionals. I've

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Speaker 1: been on that list since the creation of these awards,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that doesn't really matter. However, I'd

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Speaker 1: be lying if I said I wouldn't be bummed if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't on that list anymore, even though I know

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Speaker 1: the only reason that I'm really on those lists is

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Speaker 1: because there are enough people and there have been enough

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Speaker 1: people that know me, who are in the fitness world

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Speaker 1: who would vote for those awards because I worked in

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Speaker 1: the fitness industry, I'm a therapist, I have a podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's just like the perfect storm. Like if I was

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Speaker 1: just some random person who never worked in fitness or

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Speaker 1: it only knew a couple people in the fitness world,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I would be consistently on in

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Speaker 1: those spaces. So I know that they're meaningless winning those

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Speaker 1: awards or winning that award does not mean I have

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Speaker 1: the best podcast or that I'm the best therapist, because

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Speaker 1: there's no way to rank or decide what that even means,

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Speaker 1: and I wouldn't even agree with it. I think this

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Speaker 1: podcast is wonderful. I don't know what it would mean

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Speaker 1: to say it's the best podcast in Nashville. There's too

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Speaker 1: much nuance in podcasts for that to be a thing.

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Speaker 1: Who gets decide to decide what best is? And the

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Speaker 1: same with therapists, like, what does that mean? How can

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Speaker 1: you be the best therapist? There's no way to measure

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Speaker 1: that except to have a random vote that really means nothing.

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Speaker 1: I bet a lot of the people that voted on

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Speaker 1: me for me didn't even know me, and they were

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Speaker 1: voting for their friend in a different category and they

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Speaker 1: had to pick somebody for this one, and I was

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Speaker 1: just a b or C, they said, seeing that happened

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Speaker 1: to be me. So while it can be really fun

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Speaker 1: to win these awards and win and be on these

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Speaker 1: lists and in these ranking systems, it actually doesn't really

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Speaker 1: mean anything if you win it or you don't win it.

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Speaker 1: But again, we as humans love to compare, even though

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Speaker 1: we know that joy definitely does not come from us

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Speaker 1: comparing ourselves to others. Nevertheless, we continue to act like

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Speaker 1: we don't know that. And here's another little antidote that

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Speaker 1: will help visualize this idea. So Simon talked about this

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Speaker 1: study where people were offered either a one million dollar

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Speaker 1: house on a street where other houses were four million

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Speaker 1: dollars and this is for free. You get this one

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Speaker 1: million dollar house for free, or a free four hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar house on a street where the other houses

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Speaker 1: were one hundred thousand dollars. So you can have a

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Speaker 1: million dollar house on a street where all the houses

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Speaker 1: are bigger than yours, or you can have a four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar house on street where your house is

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Speaker 1: the biggest one, and most people chose the four hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars house. The deduction here is that we as

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Speaker 1: human beings just love being better than each other. It

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Speaker 1: feels eggy to say that, and I have this experience

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Speaker 1: of not wanting that to be true, and in our

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Speaker 1: culture that is true. I don't even really know what

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Speaker 1: to say to that. We spend so much time worrying

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Speaker 1: about being better or prettier, or richer, or funnier or

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Speaker 1: cooler or whatever than others rather than being the best

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves, And then we rob the world's ability

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Speaker 1: to see what the best version of ourselves really would be.

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Speaker 1: We rob ourselves the ability to see that. And I

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Speaker 1: know that as long as we are looking to other

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Speaker 1: people to see if we're good enough, or strong enough,

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Speaker 1: or successful enough, we are always, always, always going to

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Speaker 1: end up being dissatisfied. There will always be somebody or

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Speaker 1: something greater than us, whether we know who they are

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Speaker 1: and they're in our view or not. So my question

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Speaker 1: here is what would happen if we looked more towards

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Speaker 1: our growth, Like, what would it mean? What would happen

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Speaker 1: if it mattered more that we are here than if

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Speaker 1: we're the best one here? What if we look to

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Speaker 1: have a seat at the table versus the head seat

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Speaker 1: at the table? Because the ones who are worried about

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Speaker 1: being the best, the ones who are worried about being

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Speaker 1: at the head seat, are also the ones that will

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Speaker 1: end up being frustrated. So after I played this video

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Speaker 1: for everybody in this meeting, what I did is I

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Speaker 1: asked for everyone to share to the level that they

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Speaker 1: were comfortable with sharing where in their lives, both personally

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Speaker 1: and professionally, they were playing the finite game where they're

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Speaker 1: in an infinite game, and the conversation that ensued was

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Speaker 1: such a cool conversation. So I really want to leave

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Speaker 1: you with that challenge as well. So where in your

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Speaker 1: life are you playing a finite game when you're actually

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Speaker 1: in an infinite game? And can you look at what

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Speaker 1: you might need to do in order to switch your

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Speaker 1: mindset so you're not the one who's being frustrated all

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Speaker 1: the time and who's ending up frustrated. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I have for you today, short, sweet, and to the point.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm also going to link this video

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Speaker 1: for you guys, so you can also watch it as

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Speaker 1: many times as you want and maybe get some more

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Speaker 1: goodness from him. I am in the process of getting

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Speaker 1: my hands on his book so I can read that

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Speaker 1: and gain some more insight myself. And I'm in the

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Speaker 1: process of shifting my mindset in a lot of areas.

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Speaker 1: So I hope that you guys have the day you

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Speaker 1: need to have. And if you have any questions, feedback, comments, anything,

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Speaker 1: remember you can always send those to me Catherine at

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Speaker 1: You Need Their podcast and you can follow me at

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Speaker 1: Kat dot Defada on Instagram and at You Need Therapy podcast.

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Speaker 1: I also hope you had the Thanksgiving you needed to

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Speaker 1: have last week and you continue to have the holiday

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Speaker 1: season that you need to have. I'll be back with

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Speaker 1: you guys on Wednesday for couch Talks. Until then, Bye bye,