1
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're

2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:21,120
Speaker 1: listening the stuff Mom never told you. And today, if

3
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: I sound a little deadpan, it's in honor of one

4
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 1: of my favorite fictional feminists, Daria Morgan Dorf. If you

5
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,040
Speaker 1: listen to our episode on Lisa Simpson, you're a little

6
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 1: familiar with this series that we're doing that we're calling

7
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,839
Speaker 1: fictional feminists, exploring all the lovely women that have made

8
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: us the feminists that we are from popular culture. And

9
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,600
Speaker 1: I will have to be the first to admit confession here.

10
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: I never really got Daria Dunn. How can that be?

11
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,159
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I mean, I love and

12
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk through all the ways in which Daria

13
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 1: was so emblematic of the nineties, because I think she

14
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 1: really was the feminist at Empty needed at the time

15
00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 1: that they put her on air. But I just I

16
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: could never get into the dead pan thing, probably because

17
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 1: I care about all the things. So I've always been

18
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 1: like overly intense in my style of living. And I'm

19
00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: much more of a Lisa than you're. You're the Lisa

20
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 1: to my Daria. I don't know that I identify with

21
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: Daria's kind of apathetic side. But that's what we're gonna

22
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,919
Speaker 1: unpack today, that while she comes off as seeming apathetic

23
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,920
Speaker 1: and cynical, actually that masks a very hopeful worldview that

24
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,679
Speaker 1: actually cares quite a bit about the world around her, right,

25
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 1: And I think at the end of the day, it

26
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,400
Speaker 1: was all about representation, Like it's important that women like

27
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: Daria gets screen time. It's important that we see women

28
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: who aren't all rainbows and butterflies all the time as

29
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 1: being cool, like and okay, and like that kind of

30
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 1: a woman should be allowed to exist too. Absolutely, I'm

31
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 1: glad that you brought that up, because on our episode

32
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 1: about Lisa Simpson, it really does come up that people

33
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 1: need to see representations of who they are on screen,

34
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 1: Otherwise it leads into a feeling like they're lived experiences

35
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 1: aren't really valid exactly. And as we mentioned in the

36
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: Leasta Simpson episode, even among the top grossing G rated

37
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: family films, girl characters are outnumbered by boys three to

38
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 1: one according to the Gina Davis Institute, and that ratio

39
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: has existed and stagnated since the end of World War Two. Wow, well,

40
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 1: that actually really jibes with how Daria even came to

41
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 1: be in the first place. Um, you may think of

42
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 1: Daria as this quintessential iconic show from your adolescence if

43
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,920
Speaker 1: you're anything like me and maybe not like Emily, But

44
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: the only reason that Daria is even here is because

45
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: of Beavis and butt Head. Beavis and butt Head. I

46
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,639
Speaker 1: was surprised to learn that in researching for this episode,

47
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: because Beavis and butt Head are like the antithesis of

48
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: feminist icons. They absolutely are, So I actually grew up

49
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,959
Speaker 1: watching Beavis and butt Head quite a bit. I I really,

50
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 1: even though it's I mean, it's certainly not a feminist show.

51
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 1: But Daria was a side character that went to high

52
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,519
Speaker 1: school with Beavis and butt Head, and she kind of

53
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: meant to be the feminist foil to these two knuckleheads

54
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 1: who did nothing but talk about gross things and you

55
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 1: know what, doing dumb things all day long. She was

56
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,839
Speaker 1: often sort of tortured by them, and the reason why

57
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,840
Speaker 1: she had her own show on MTVS because Beavis and

58
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 1: butt Head, while it was a wildly successful with boys,

59
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: surprisingly it wasn't really that popular with girls. It seemed

60
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: like MTV was really struggling at that time to capture

61
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: a young female audience, and that was back in the

62
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 1: day when they were still playing actual music videos on there.

63
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: And I actually have to say that I didn't have cable, right,

64
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,400
Speaker 1: so I was the We had the antenna type TV situation,

65
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 1: so I wasn't consciously resisting Beavis and butt Head or

66
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: MTV just wasn't accessible to me at the time. And

67
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 1: had it been, I think that when Daria debuted on

68
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 1: March three, I might have tuned in, because she really

69
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:57,119
Speaker 1: did encapsulate the angsty teenage experience unlike any show I've

70
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 1: ever seen. I have to give her credit there. I'm

71
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: so glad that you said, because in this time where

72
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 1: I think things that are retro and throwbacky and all

73
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: things grunge or sort of having a resurgence, it's really

74
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 1: kind of interesting to think about Daria as representing a

75
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of the ideology from that time. I'm talking about

76
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,919
Speaker 1: things like calling out corporatism and capitalism and consumer driven teens,

77
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 1: things like that. The nineties was all about hearing that culture,

78
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,120
Speaker 1: and I think nobody did it better or more sardonically

79
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,839
Speaker 1: than Darius. It's so true. It was like the teenage.

80
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,240
Speaker 1: It like smells like teen spirit, right. It had Nirvana

81
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: era imbued into it. In Nirvana era rebellion against like

82
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 1: the corporate overlords, sort of imbued in everything that was

83
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 1: going on in that show. If you even want to

84
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: talk about the opening song, the lyrics go, this is

85
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 1: my stop, gotta get off. I'm a go pop. Excuse me,

86
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: I've got to be direct. If I'm wrong, please correct.

87
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,280
Speaker 1: You're standing on my neck. You look right through me,

88
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 1: say I'm gloomy. Yeah, so sue me, excuse me. H.

89
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 1: I love it. It really kind of feels like that,

90
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: like bust out the ball chain necklace gothic meets apathetic

91
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,280
Speaker 1: teen angst story. Definitely. So. I love the idea that

92
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 1: the reason why Daria came to be this feminist cartoon

93
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 1: hero for so many women is really because of the

94
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,839
Speaker 1: lack of women watching Beavis and butt Head. Tracy Grandstaff,

95
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,119
Speaker 1: who was the voice of Daria, talks a lot about

96
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: this in this really, really great piece called The Oral

97
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 1: History of Daria from Vice. She says MTV was going

98
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:30,719
Speaker 1: through a phase where they were getting a lot of

99
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,599
Speaker 1: black for not really representing women on air outside of

100
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,159
Speaker 1: spring Break, remember those those spring break shows, or it

101
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,440
Speaker 1: was like girls in bikini's dancing on the pool. Yeah,

102
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: like wet t shirt contest. Basically, how did that even

103
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 1: get on TV? I don't know, But all I know

104
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: is I would watch it as a teenager, and I

105
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 1: would want to go to spring Break so bad. It's like,

106
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,720
Speaker 1: who are the Springbreak? Is that what spring break it all?

107
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 1: It is? It's like dancing on a pool with like

108
00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: live pop performances happening on Miami Beach or something. I

109
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,359
Speaker 1: missed the boat on that one. That was not what

110
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,359
Speaker 1: my spring break looked like. Same In that same piece

111
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 1: from Vice, the show's co creator Glenn Eichler agreed with

112
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 1: Tracy Grandstaff and pointed out that the only other women's

113
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: centered show that MTV had aside from spring Break, if

114
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: you can even call it that, was called A on

115
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 1: Flux and it was a superhero wearing like three inches

116
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,359
Speaker 1: of cloth as her entire outfit. They couldn't have guessed

117
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: more incorrectly about what young women wanted to watch see.

118
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: I actually watched aon a Flex as well, but that's

119
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: because I'm a weirdo, and honestly, if it's a cartoon,

120
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: I have to watch it. I'm I'm so cartoon obsessed.

121
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 1: If it's a cartoon, well, I read in on the

122
00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: MTV sort of nineties scene. It sounds like, but they

123
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 1: were trying to basically persuade more women to You were

124
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 1: already a Beavis and butthead viewer like, of course they

125
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,919
Speaker 1: captured you. But to expand their base, which they successfully

126
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 1: did with Daria, they were going to have to give

127
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 1: us a more complex and nuanced character. Yeah, Aona Flex

128
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 1: was a great show, but it certainly was not like

129
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 1: a nuance depiction of womanhood on screen, not at all, right,

130
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: And so that's why I'm so glad mt BE actually

131
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,920
Speaker 1: thought about, Hey, what is it that women and young

132
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 1: girls actually want to be watching. How can we actually

133
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 1: reflect their stories on screen in a way that's authentic,

134
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 1: in a way that shows the kind of things they

135
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,200
Speaker 1: might be grappling with. And so I'm so happy they

136
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 1: landed on Daria, even after a few failed attempts. It

137
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: sounds like the partnership behind Daria is really what made

138
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 1: it so magical, to which sounds a little familiar to me.

139
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: It does sound a little bit familiar. So basically, we

140
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 1: have these two creative powerhouses, Susie Lewis Lynn and Glenn Eichler.

141
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: Glenn cut his teeth at Harvard's Lampoon, which is like

142
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 1: a satirical owning style, very famous comedy newspaper out of Harvard,

143
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,760
Speaker 1: and Susie Lewis, his co creator, spent her days at

144
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,360
Speaker 1: Temple University doodling MTV logos on notebooks until a classmates

145
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 1: suggested she get an internship at the network. Her street

146
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 1: smarts and pop culture knowledge combined really beautifully with Glenn's

147
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 1: sort of book smarts in this dynamic way that was

148
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: not dissimilar to that of Daria and her best friend

149
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: Jane Lane. Do you know what else that's not very

150
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: dissimilar from what could that be our creative partnership. I

151
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 1: couldn't agree more. When I read that, my jaw hit

152
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 1: the ground. I was like, Oh, that's part of what

153
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: makes Mindy so magic. That's right, the merging of these

154
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 1: two different girls. I love it. Something else that was

155
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: really interesting about how these two work together is that

156
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 1: at the time, most shows in MTV had one creator

157
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 1: or one creative powerhouse, and this show brought together to

158
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 1: which is a little bit unusual at the time. Huh,

159
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 1: And I guess that makes sense when you really think

160
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,880
Speaker 1: about the combination of things that we're happening on the

161
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 1: show Daria. There was a lot of sort of social commentary,

162
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 1: big picture thinking about the world at large, combined with

163
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 1: the sort of hipness being read in on the trends

164
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: of the time, and sort of knowing the lingo from Susie,

165
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,559
Speaker 1: who was much closer in age to the actual characters

166
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: of the show than her co creator exactly. So something

167
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 1: else that I find really fascinating about how the show

168
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,439
Speaker 1: kind of came together is that Tracy Grant Staff, who

169
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 1: you think of as that iconic, dead pan Daria voice,

170
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 1: like who else could be Daria? She really kind of

171
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 1: fell into that role because she was the only female

172
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 1: writer on the show Beavis and butt Head, and so

173
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 1: she kind of got pigeonholed into being the voice of Daria,

174
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,360
Speaker 1: which you think of who else could be that voice?

175
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,719
Speaker 1: That voice is so iconic, But she just would have

176
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 1: got the role because she was there, which is actually

177
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,400
Speaker 1: a sad state of affairs if you think about representation

178
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: in the writer's room, like that's not how it should be.

179
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,559
Speaker 1: But I'm glad that it took off and that she

180
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 1: got more credit for filling in. It's the only woman around, absolutely,

181
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,320
Speaker 1: so grand Staff goes on to talk about in this

182
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: vice piece how Daria was really inspired by all these

183
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,320
Speaker 1: sort of iconic deadpan women, folks like Janine Garoffolo, who

184
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 1: I am obsessed with. I think she's going to grown

185
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,079
Speaker 1: up Daria. She is grown up everything. I fun fact,

186
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,320
Speaker 1: I have the box DVD set of Daria and in

187
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 1: the you know what do you call it? Like, um,

188
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 1: there's a there's a piece by Janine Garoffolo where she

189
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,960
Speaker 1: talks about how a lot of people think that she

190
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: does the voice, but she doesn't, so people will be like, oh,

191
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 1: j Garofalo voice Daria, and she's like, actually, I didn't

192
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,280
Speaker 1: people think that all the time. She is such a

193
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: dead pan, sardonic, salty woman, right, Yes. I One of

194
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: my favorite n Garoffalo roles is in the movie of

195
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 1: The Cable Guy. She's the sarcastic medieval times waitress. Go

196
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 1: back and watch The Cable Guy. She's She's only in

197
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 1: the movie for three minutes, which is amazing. That's funny.

198
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 1: And then and I also found it interesting. Man, this

199
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 1: makes me feel old thinking back to like mid to

200
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,680
Speaker 1: late nineties. But the other character on TV that sort

201
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 1: of inspired the dead pan, sardonic Daria was actually Sarah Gilbert,

202
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,559
Speaker 1: the daughter in the show Rosanne, who was like constantly

203
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 1: and begrudgingly talking in that low monotone voice and was

204
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 1: like perpetually angsty. And you know, Sarah Gilbert's character in

205
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: Rosanna was named Darlene, which I didn't even put together.

206
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 1: So this second that has that can't be a coincidence.

207
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,959
Speaker 1: They're too similar. Daria and Darlene, both of them had perky,

208
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 1: popular sisters who were sort of narcissistic and boy obsessed

209
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: and made great foils for them as kind of sardonic,

210
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, outsider, like the anti female role of of

211
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: high school popularity. It was Becky, right, Becky was Darlene's

212
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 1: sister and Daria's sister Quinn Quinn morgen Dorffer fashion club member.

213
00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 1: So Daria went on to be very, very successful for MTV.

214
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 1: It's the longest running show to come out of MTV's

215
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,079
Speaker 1: entire animation department, and by it was one of the

216
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 1: MTV's most highest rated shows. And one of the reasons

217
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: that I think the show was so successful was the

218
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 1: fact that there were tons of women on the creative team.

219
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: Not like Beavis and butt Head, there was only one

220
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,800
Speaker 1: woman in the writer's room. The fact that this creative

221
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: team was chock full of challenged women was a rarity

222
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: for the times. But I think also why the show

223
00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 1: resonated so much with their audience, and they were going

224
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,599
Speaker 1: for a young female audience and they they hit it

225
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,440
Speaker 1: out of the park totally, And what's so sad? As

226
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: much as I love that, it's still sort of an anomaly. Today,

227
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: eleven percent of TV shows still have no female writers

228
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,560
Speaker 1: on staff, and from sixteen, a study from San Diego

229
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,160
Speaker 1: State University found that only of creative professionals on television

230
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,040
Speaker 1: shows were women. So, if the TV networks are listening

231
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 1: and you want to capture a young female audience, what

232
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 1: should they do? Bridget hire women, higher women, directors, women producers,

233
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,640
Speaker 1: women voiced talent, women, everything, women from the top to

234
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 1: the bottom. I feel like we're also in that moment

235
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 1: in Hollywood right now, where people are like, what should

236
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 1: we do to curb this rampant sexism and assault in

237
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 1: the industry. I don't know, Hire more women, promote more women,

238
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,200
Speaker 1: put women in charge. Like until women have been scandalizing

239
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: industry is left and right, maybe we should give them

240
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: a shot. I mean, this is I will talk all day.

241
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: Don't want me go off the rails. But even beyond that,

242
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,079
Speaker 1: aren't we kind of sick of the same old stories

243
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 1: and the same old movies and the same old shows

244
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,840
Speaker 1: coming from men? Like when are we going to realize

245
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 1: that there's more there's more room for different kinds of story.

246
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,760
Speaker 1: So I completely agree with you that if you want

247
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 1: to think about how we might combat a culture that

248
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: normalize the sexual harassment assault. But it comes to the

249
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 1: entertainment industry, having more women around is a great idea

250
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,959
Speaker 1: in terms of having them at high level decision making,

251
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 1: you know places, but also just in terms of a

252
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 1: diversity of storytelling. Aren't we a little sick of like

253
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson dealing with nostalgia because I feel I feel

254
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 1: like we give men so much room to tell their stories,

255
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 1: and that when anyone who's not assists man tells their stories,

256
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,960
Speaker 1: it's in some sort of special category, you know, So

257
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 1: even if it's a good story, it's a chick flick

258
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,319
Speaker 1: or it's a lady movie. Figured that out and gave

259
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,720
Speaker 1: the most amazing speech that I've ever heard on This

260
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 1: is Reese Witherspoon, who created her own production company and

261
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 1: had some of the three highest grossing films last year

262
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: when she produced stories that were plucked out of the

263
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 1: literary world by female authors. And look at the success

264
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 1: of Big Little Lies. I mean, you even saw male

265
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,840
Speaker 1: critics bashing the show as being, oh, this is a

266
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,920
Speaker 1: like a sappy soap opera for women and really sort

267
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 1: of missing the fact that authentic and nuanced characters that

268
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: are women. It's the right thing to do from a

269
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion standpoint, but it's also the practical and

270
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: best thing to do from a creative business standpoint. He like,

271
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 1: there are better stories to be told. Let's save more

272
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 1: folks than mic and like, how many times do we

273
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: need to see the same story about your father issues?

274
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 1: Male directors, we get it, father issues, we get it.

275
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 1: Paging Woody Ellen. All right, let's seig break talking about

276
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 1: how great Dart is. Yeah, we've got off the rails.

277
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: It's like a quick break. When we come back, we'll

278
00:14:50,200 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 1: dive more into Darian. And we're back, And we were

279
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 1: just talking about why people connect so much with Daria,

280
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 1: and one of the reasons that we talked about just

281
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,120
Speaker 1: a little while ago was the fact that there were

282
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 1: so many women involved in the creative process of Daria,

283
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 1: and I think that's what really enabled her to be

284
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: such an authentic character. Yeah. And I think this quote

285
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: from Eichler in the vice piece also underscores Daria's position

286
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 1: in the world as an outsider as being so relatable

287
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 1: and just striking such a chord, especially with nineties angsty teens.

288
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: He said, apparently everyone, with the exception of a very

289
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 1: few people who were hit on the head when they

290
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: were very young, felt like they were outsiders. You either

291
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 1: identify with her as an outsider or you sort of

292
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 1: envy her ability to navigate her life as an outsider

293
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 1: and stay sane. And for me, wasn't high school just that,

294
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: Like middle school and high school made everybody feel like

295
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: they didn't belong and it was this psychological test for

296
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 1: like how to deal in your world when your own

297
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: identity is shifting. You don't know you know who you

298
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 1: belong with and what clicks you're in or out. It

299
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: just felt very angsty. Yeah, And I think even people

300
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 1: who remember high school as being a happy time or

301
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 1: really popular in high school, even those kinds of students,

302
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 1: I think would probably report feeling like an outsider at

303
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 1: some point, because high school is a mine field of

304
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 1: navigating all of these weird social and class and racial

305
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: and gender politics that you haven't even fully figured out

306
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: how to grapple with yet. And you're that's such a

307
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: heightened thing all the time. Yeah, And so Daria positioned

308
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: as the outsider, felt like an underdog you could really

309
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,400
Speaker 1: get on board with totally. I know that when I

310
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 1: was growing up. I mean, I wouldn't call myself a

311
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: Daria in high school. I wasn't a super popular person,

312
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,120
Speaker 1: but I went to a pretty small high school, so

313
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, you could be no one was really popular,

314
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. But yeah, I mean I remember

315
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 1: feeling like an outsider in my high school. You kind

316
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: of had multiple kinds of people. You either were kind

317
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 1: of a Susie high school and you sort of were

318
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: You did all the things, and you everyone loved you

319
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: and you were like little mis perfect or you were

320
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,360
Speaker 1: someone else right and you were sort of figuring it out.

321
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 1: And I was solidly not Susie high school. But here's

322
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 1: the thing, Like, when you and I were in Richmond

323
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 1: recently on a trip, I actually stopped by my old

324
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 1: high school to name it. When we were key noting

325
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,439
Speaker 1: the Capital One Women's Conference, yeah, I remember that. So

326
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 1: after that trip, I realized, hey, I'm pretty close to

327
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 1: my old high school. To shout out to sink Chute

328
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 1: High School. I stopped by and talked to some students,

329
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 1: and the thing that I wanted to kind of impart

330
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 1: on them was, listen, I think of myself as a

331
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,639
Speaker 1: pretty successful person. I'm doing okay in life. I have

332
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: a pretty happy and productive life. I just key noted

333
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: the Capital one Women's leadership right exactly. But I wasn't

334
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 1: always Susie high School, and I figured it out. And

335
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 1: I feel like when you're young, you feel like if

336
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: you aren't nailing it on high school and that you

337
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 1: don't have it all figured out from a young age,

338
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 1: your life is going to be forever and you'll never

339
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 1: be successful or happy or popular or well adjusted. And

340
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: I just wanted to let them know that you don't

341
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: have to be you know, Susie high school. She Susie person.

342
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 1: You can have a very specific person from my high school.

343
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: Her name is actually Susie a character from election. Oh

344
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 1: Tracy flick yet, But yeah, I mean, I think it

345
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 1: was important for me to see Daria as someone who

346
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: didn't have it all figured out wasn't super into the

347
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: whole high school vibe, but you got the sense that

348
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,399
Speaker 1: she was going to be okay exactly, And Daria really

349
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:37,959
Speaker 1: speaks to that imperfect, unsatisfied, kind of unsettled vibe. New

350
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 1: York Times described Daria as a blend of Dorothy Parker,

351
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 1: fran Leebowitz and Jenny Garraffalo wearing Carrie Donovan's glasses. Daria

352
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: morgen Dorffer, sixteen and cursed with a functioning brain, has

353
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: the misfortune to see high school, her family, and her

354
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,159
Speaker 1: life for exactly what they are, and the temerity to

355
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 1: comment on it. Well, that's what I think makes Daria

356
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 1: so great is that she calls stuff like she sees it.

357
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: She doesn't put on this veneer of, you know, smiling

358
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 1: all the time and being really cheery about stuff. It's

359
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 1: actually depressing. In fact, she actually there's a line in

360
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: an episode when her mom asks her to show her

361
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,080
Speaker 1: class photo because her sister Quinn, of course, took the

362
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: perfect class photo. Daria takes the photo out of her backpack,

363
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: throws it on the kitchen table, and it's her dead pan,

364
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: totally not smiling, of course, and her mom says, Daria,

365
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: when are you going to just smile for a photo.

366
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: You know, the world judges you by how they see

367
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,440
Speaker 1: you in photos like this, And Daria says, I fundamentally

368
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 1: disagree with that premise, you know, Like she says, like, yes,

369
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm aware of that, and I fundamentally disagree with it.

370
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Daria, I just remembered something horribly embarrassing

371
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 1: from high school, which is that I declined to have

372
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: my senior portraits taken because all my classmates were getting

373
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: their senior portraits taken at these studios and it was very,

374
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: very polished and refresh and you were if you had

375
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: to wear pearls and like a black drape across your shoulders,

376
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: and it was a very specific look. And I declined

377
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 1: and my mom was like, what do you mean You're

378
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: not gonna do it? And I said, I'm opting out

379
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 1: of that culture. I didn't want to do it. But

380
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: then here's the real kicker. Yeah I was. I was

381
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: woke lit a baby, No pearls for me. But then

382
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 1: here's the kicker, here's what I sell out I actually

383
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 1: ended up being is that my mom was like, are

384
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,239
Speaker 1: you're gonna regret this? All your friends are getting their

385
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 1: pictures taken. I was like, no, I'm not going to

386
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: regret it. She was actually right. I ended up really

387
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: being like, oh, well, I want my picture in the yearbook.

388
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 1: Then I realized I was going to have one of

389
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: those note like not pictured things, and I was like,

390
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: don't want that. So I ended up recreating a like

391
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: in the janest way possible in my high school gym,

392
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: and I'll put the photo in the show notes. Because

393
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 1: I have my high school yearbook. It's I'm holding a

394
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: towel across my shoulders as if it's one of those

395
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: professional drapes, and my friendness just taking the picture in

396
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: the gym. So that's it's a much better story. You've

397
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: got a great story out of it. I mean yeah.

398
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: And so it's like I thought I was going to

399
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 1: be this life. You were a conscientious objector, and then

400
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: you regretted your objection. But that's so, that's so Daria, right.

401
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: What I love about Daria is that she often does

402
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 1: take these principled stances, but then realizes her own feelings

403
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 1: are much more nuance. It's not just black or white,

404
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: where I don't want to contribute to this sort of

405
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: shallow high school culture. Sometimes she finds herself actually feeling

406
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: a little bit conflicted, and she has to wonder what

407
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 1: that means about her, right she calls out the culture

408
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: for being shallow and then is tormented by her desire

409
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: to actually get on board with it exactly. But I

410
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: think that thing that you just shared about the photo

411
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: with Daria really comes back to this idea of likability.

412
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean, as women were often told that we have

413
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: to be likable above anything else. And so if you're

414
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: having a bad day, if you're piste off, if you're

415
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: not smiling, if you're not happy, and that means something

416
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: bad about you. And I think Daria really pushed back

417
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: against this idea that women have to be likable all

418
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: the time. Luckily. In fact, you know who has some

419
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: really powerful things to say about that was chim Amanda

420
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: nagozi Adici. At an event for girls right now. She

421
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 1: told the young girls about the power of forgetting about likability.

422
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 1: She said, quote, I think that what our society teaches

423
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: young girls, and I think it's also something that's quite

424
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: difficult for even older women and self professed feminists to

425
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: shrug off. Is this idea that likability is an essential

426
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: part of you, of the space you occupy in the world,

427
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to twist yourself into shapes to make

428
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: yourself likable, that you're supposed to hold back sometimes pulled back,

429
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: don't quite say, don't be too pushy, because you have

430
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: to be likable. And Daria is the antithesis of that.

431
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: She's the antithesis of it. And she makes it okay

432
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: to not be likable. Listen, even if you're a cheery,

433
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: happy person, nobody is likable and happy and smiling all

434
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: the time. And I think it was especially important that

435
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: young girls saw that Daria was sarcastic sometimes and was

436
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: biting sometimes, and was pissy sometimes and all of that,

437
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: because that's reality. Yeah, And I think in today's culture

438
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: of you know, pinterest perfection, as we've discussed, that's an

439
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: even more relevant role model for us, which is it's

440
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: okay to have opinions that aren't the best, Like it's

441
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: okay to have unpopular opinions. It's okay to have something

442
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: to say that not everybody's going to agree with, despite

443
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: what sometimes the world thinks. Because I particularly love airing

444
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 1: my disagreement with people when it serves a purpose for me,

445
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: like it it definitely takes some energy of your limited

446
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: resources to to disagree with someone. But if I think

447
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: someone's being gross on Facebook, I'm gonna tell them they're

448
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: being gross on Facebook. Or if I think a comment

449
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: was like off, I'm going to ask them what they

450
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: mean by that. And I'm gonna be disagreeable sometimes if

451
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm having a bad day, and like, the world can

452
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: deal with it. But that's the thing we've been taught

453
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: at the world deal with that. We've been taught that

454
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: as women we have to be pretty happy, smiley cheerleaders

455
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: all the time, and that if we God forbid, especially

456
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: disagreeable in the world's gonna come to an end. I

457
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: love that phrase, they'll deal with it. When I was

458
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: first dating Brad, I was like, this is my opinion.

459
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: Deal with it, Like this is how I feel. It's

460
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: not rainbows and butterflies, like deal with it. And I

461
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: just feel like Daria was never afraid to be real

462
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: and to be cutting and to have commentary that was

463
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: edgy and disagreeable, and the world didn't always deal with

464
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: it very well. They were frustrated by her right like,

465
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: they labeled her as depressed or dark or sardonic, and

466
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: she didn't really feel that way about herself exactly. So

467
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: that's something that I really really love about the show

468
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: is that, basically, at least in my mind, the show

469
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: makes the point that listen, if you're a young girl

470
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: trying to figure out in high school and you're honest

471
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: and sometimes disagreeable and not always the happiest, that's okay.

472
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. It might be tough for you. Sometimes

473
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: your classmates might not get you, your family might not

474
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: get you. You might have a little bit of a

475
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: hard time figuring it out in school, and that's okay.

476
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: But if you stick it out, ultimately things will fall

477
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: into place. And that's what I love that Daria is

478
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: that she wasn't just a bummer for the sake of

479
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: being a bummer because she was a downer. She actually

480
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: you see her character grow and developed in a way that, frankly,

481
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: you actually don't see cartoon characters, particularly women do on

482
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: TV very often. Well, and it was a long running show, right,

483
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: so they kind of had the creative choice to make,

484
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: which is should we keep her in this moment in

485
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: time forever or should we show her evolution? And they

486
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: clearly opted for the letter exactly when you look at

487
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: her infatuation she had with her best friend, Jane's brother.

488
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: There's an episode where she realizes, Hey, this guy is

489
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: really cute and really cool, but his slack her ways

490
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 1: will never you know, work for me. There's an episode

491
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: called Jane's Addiction where Trent has volunteered to help her

492
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: and Jane out with a school project and totally drops

493
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: the ball in flakes, she realizes, hey, I mean the apathetic,

494
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: but this guy can't commit to doing anything, even if

495
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: it's to help his sister. And so again, sort of

496
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: like Lisa Simpson with her crushed on Nelson, but I

497
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: think we got into in she realizes that this this

498
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: crush that she's been holding for a long time, she

499
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: outgrows it. It also shows that Daria isn't actually apathetic.

500
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: It shows that she does care. In fact, she cares

501
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: so much that she'll call bs when she sees it.

502
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: But like, she's not disengaged completely, you know what I mean.

503
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: She's not. She has morals, she has values, and when

504
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: this guy drops the ball, you know she's not here

505
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: for it. And she makes that clear, which I like

506
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: because it's sort of like a crystallizing moment of her

507
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: moral being put front and center, and I think you

508
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: see that a lot. And the fact that throughout the

509
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: show Daria is this seemingly apathetic person who doesn't really

510
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: care about school and doesn't want to even play the game,

511
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: but by the end of the show's run, she's actually

512
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: the Validctorian giving a great speech at graduation. Right, stand

513
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: firm for what you believe in until and unless logic

514
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and experience prove you wrong. Remember when the Emperor looks naked,

515
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: the emperor is naked. The truth and a lie are

516
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: not sort of the same thing. And there's no aspect,

517
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: no facet, no moment of life that can't be improved

518
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: with pizza. Thank you. I love that. I would vote

519
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: for Daria. I would vote for her. Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

520
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: So ultimately, I think you hear that in her speech, right,

521
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: that even though she comes off as this dead pan,

522
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: apathetic person, actually she has the bravery to see the

523
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: world for what it is and to be skeptical about

524
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: the world and to be hopeful about the world, right,

525
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: which is a very complex duality that doesn't get written

526
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: into very many cartoons. Might I add, not to like

527
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: dig on cartoons, but just characters in general. She is nuanced.

528
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: She is balancing this cutting social commentary with somehow hope

529
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: for a better tomorrow exactly exactly, And even though Daria

530
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: clearly has a complicated relationship with her family, particularly her

531
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: mom and her sister, you actually see that same hope

532
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: with how she thinks about her family. So there's a

533
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: great episode called right Where It Hurts, where she writes

534
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: an essay about her family what they're gonna be like

535
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: in the future, and she's really struggling with this essay

536
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: coming together, and her mom says, you know, Daria, maybe

537
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: you should try instead of describing what you see, think

538
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: about how you want things to be. And so this

539
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: is someone who doesn't really get along with her parents.

540
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: Her sister is kind of a nightmare at her, and

541
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: she reimagines what their relationship is going to look like

542
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: ten years down the line. So, in her reimagining, her sister,

543
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: who has been this narcissistic, popular, self obsessed little nightmare,

544
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: actually channels all of this self obsession into being a

545
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: really really kick ass mom of like four kids. Her

546
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: parents are retired, and she herself has continued to sort

547
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: of be this outspoken activist, writing columns for the paper

548
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: about all the topics and all the ideals that she

549
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: talked about in school, and she's married to a teacher,

550
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: which is kind of an interesting choice for someone who

551
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: seems to not really dig school that much exactly. And

552
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: I think this example is a small one of many

553
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: that show that the so called misery chick that is

554
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: Daria is not really a character about cynicism but hope.

555
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: In Salon, Ari L. Bernstein writes this piece called Reassessing

556
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: Daria the Legacy of mtvs dead Pan Misery Chick. She

557
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: writes that her cynicism worked not because she was a

558
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: quintessentially angsty teen, but because of how principled her character was.

559
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Daria's clever quips were less about being jaded than about

560
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: outright rebellion, a refusal to give in to a shallow

561
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: appearance obsessed culture that is like the nineties, right, this

562
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: is the rise of Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and Daria.

563
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: It is. And I think calling these things out and

564
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: thinking about how they can be better, or reimagining them

565
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: in ways that aren't so tragic. For Daria, I think

566
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: it's what the show is all about. And I think

567
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: that also has a lot to do with how the

568
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: show deals with her social and political opinions, which I

569
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: want to dive back into after this quick break and

570
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: we're back, and let's talk about Daria and her political

571
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 1: and social beliefs. So in comparison to one of her

572
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: other favorite fictional feminist, Lisa Simpson, you know, Lisa is

573
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: an explicit activist, she's out there in the streets. Daria's

574
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: political views are a little bit more subtle. She does

575
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: a lot of subtle critiques of culture, whether it's consumerism, capitalism,

576
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: the education system, the media, all of that. Daria would

577
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: have killed it on Twitter. Oh my god, Daria, I

578
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: need there to be a Daria Twitter there, Daria that

579
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: there has to be a Daria Pardy account that they're not,

580
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: there will be soon, and it's gonna be me behind

581
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: the helm. Don't tell anybody, it's our little secret s

582
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: Minty listeners. I think you see this a lot in

583
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: the show within a show, that Jane and Daria are

584
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: pessed with six sad worlds, right, like the show that

585
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: was always showing all of the ridiculous things and culture,

586
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: and honestly, it really does foreshadow the rise of like

587
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: clickbait media and clickbait journalism, all these over the top,

588
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: hard to believe stories that you sort of lose yourself in.

589
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: This one tiny aspect of Darius cultural literacy that I

590
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: always loved, right, and it was like if it bleeds,

591
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: it leads type journalism, right, and having that in the background,

592
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: Daria was the social commentator who would have killed it

593
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter had Twitter been around, but instead she just

594
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: had these brilliant quips in the halls of her high school.

595
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: And if you remember, sixth said, world, here's what it

596
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: sounds like, fish using our oceans as their own private toilets.

597
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: After this that the idea, there's one that I think

598
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: of all the time, our fish using your drinking water

599
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: as a toilet. Next on sixth said world, I think

600
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: about it like once a day. Oh my god, that's funny.

601
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: The other social and political commentary that kept coming up

602
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: in Daria that I thought was really important was the

603
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: fact that Daria was not afraid to talk about racism,

604
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: tokenism and dare I say intersectionality on the show, which

605
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: was well before you know the popularity of such a concept.

606
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,959
Speaker 1: And Bridgiete, you've told me in the past that Jody

607
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: was a big inspiration for you growing up right totally.

608
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you pick through my Facebook profile pictures,

609
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: for a long time, I had a picture of Jody

610
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: as my picture because I identified with her so much.

611
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, Jody never got enough screen time for me.

612
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: But she did have a really really good storyline. Like

613
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: you saw her parents, who saw her boyfriend who was

614
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: also black. His name was Mac. He was my football team.

615
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up feeling a lot like Jody.

616
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: Her character was someone who often felt pressure. Just would

617
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: have be actually calls like I mean, this is me

618
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: quoting Jodi quote the perfect negress. So that someone the

619
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: person who does all the activities, it's great grades, it's

620
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: a great representation of their race, really fits in their

621
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: high school. And so that was something I felt a

622
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: lot of pressure to do as well. And I think

623
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: the show was so ahead of its time to show

624
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: this for what it was right. This wasn't just a

625
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: black girl on the show who you never saw her

626
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: family life, you never saw the pressures that she dealt with.

627
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: Certainly she should have had more screen time, but they

628
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: did give her very very serious subject matter. I remember

629
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: one of my favorite jokes from the show is that

630
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: so her. Their school is mostly white, but every year

631
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Jody and her boyfriend Mac when prom king and queen,

632
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: and it's clearly just because the school wants to look diverse.

633
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: And Jody's great line is, hey, we may be tokens,

634
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: but at least for good looking tokens. It was sort

635
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: of like the result of white guilt in the high

636
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: school election arena exactly. But I mean a cartoon in

637
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: the nineties dealing with white guilt. That's amazing. Yeah, and

638
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: you know what, You're not the only amazing woman of

639
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: color behind a podcasting Mike who is clearly inspired by

640
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: Jody and by Daria at large. Our pal from w

641
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: n i c S Two Dope Queens, the one and

642
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: only Phoebe Robinson, friend of the show, or at least

643
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: we like to think, in my head, friend of the

644
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: kind of me. In my head, I have an entire

645
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: backstory where in my own mind, well, we're a big fan.

646
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: So Phoebe, if you're listening, call us, let's hang. She

647
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: runs an awesome website called Gloria as in Black Daria,

648
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: and on her incredible site she writes about how Jody

649
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: really struck a chord with black women. She writes, quote

650
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: a show in the nineties was able to understand that

651
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: even though Jody and Daria are similar in a lot

652
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: of ways, they're different because of race. And as a result,

653
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: Jody has a much different view of the world and

654
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: the world has a much different view of her that

655
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: my friends in a nutshell is the intersectionality experience, and

656
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: the fact that Daria got it was certainly not expected

657
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: at the time. It was undoubtedly welcomed by a legion

658
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: of black women who watched the show. Her experience was

659
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: my experience, her fears were mine. And that's exactly why

660
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: this show, I think is so amazing, because it didn't

661
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: shy away from these heavy topics like intersectionality and tokenism

662
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: and race. And I can't think of that many cartoons

663
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: that were really doing that in the nineties, and they

664
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: were daring to be sarcastic about it exactly exactly, And

665
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: I think that the relationship between Jodi and Daria, Jody

666
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: is really able to make Daria kind of check her

667
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: white girl privilege in a lot of ways, because Daria

668
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: is this person who seemingly doesn't want to engage, is

669
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: a little bit of an outsider, but Jody really doesn't

670
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: have a choice in the matter because she's a black woman,

671
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: and so they both occupy very different spaces as women

672
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: in this high school. And I think it's clear that

673
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: their experiences as white women and black women mean that

674
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: they're going to have different understandings of how that all

675
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: works and navigate that in very different ways. And I

676
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: think you see Jody really grappling what that looks like

677
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: as a black woman, right, Like Jody comes from an

678
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: upper middle class family. Jody's parents are very successful. Jody's

679
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: family wants her to be successful, and you see her

680
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: trying to navigate where she can use her class privilege

681
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: as someone who has an upper middle class background, bumping

682
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: up against her own principles and her own ideals and

683
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: sort of how to navigate that. Yeah, it was a

684
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: complex character in a world that was too simple on

685
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: TV exactly And do you identify with Joy so much? Also,

686
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: Jody was someone who did every extracurricular activity and that

687
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: was a little bit of me. I did like all

688
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: the things, and so I definitely I never met Susie

689
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: High School that I wasn't a Susie High school, but

690
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: I never met an extracurricular I didn't love always plating

691
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: photography in the gym exactly Jo photography. Um. So, I

692
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: think when it comes to Jody and Daria navigating this landscape,

693
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: there's one episode that I think really really crystallizes that

694
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: for me, and it's called the Prize Fight. I think

695
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: this is an interesting example because it shows how the

696
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: show didn't just go raise, it also intersection with class

697
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: in a really smart and nuanced way. Exactly so, basically,

698
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: in this episode, Jody, Daria, and Jane are all speaking

699
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: about college and Jodi and Daria both apply for the

700
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: scholarship by an organization called the Wizard Corporation and they're

701
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: supposed to be just an evil corporation like insert big

702
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: evil conglamorate here. Yeah, and Daria ends up biting this

703
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: great biting essay critiquing capitalism that goes a little something

704
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: like this, and some my world would be made fair

705
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: through the simple step of eliminating all money. Politicians could

706
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: serve the people they represent instead of the ones paying

707
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: for their attack ats. Ceo s could stop fouling the

708
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: planet and cheating their workers just to keep their stock

709
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: prices pumped, and of course, promising young students such as

710
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: myself could actually study instead of spending their time groveling

711
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: and scholarship essays, Dang, that is no joke. Yeah, she

712
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 1: was getting really, really real. But here's where this episode

713
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: I think goes from good to great. So basically, even

714
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,479
Speaker 1: though she writes this great essay, her own principles really

715
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: come into play. She realizes that even though she kind

716
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: of made a mockery of the whole scholarship contest, she

717
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: actually kind of wants to get this scholarship right. So

718
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: sort of like she's tormented between she wants to critique

719
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: the evil nature of this organization, who she and Jody

720
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: agree are just really doing this scholarship to look good, right,

721
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: It's like they're not. They don't really care about empowering

722
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: women or diversity, but they also want their money. So

723
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: Daria is like struggling between, Yes, I really do want

724
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: that scholarship, but I'd rather take down this organization than

725
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: get it exactly. Later in the episode, it's revealed by

726
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: Daria's boyfriend Tom that this organization has abysmal hiring practices.

727
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,479
Speaker 1: They don't promote women, they don't promote people of color,

728
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: and in fact, probably would rather not hire people of

729
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: color altogether. So Daria tells Jody this, thinking, oh, of

730
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: course Jody's gonna drop out, she'll want nothing to do

731
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: with this. But then it's JODI's dad who says, did

732
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: it ever occurred to you that maybe having a black

733
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: woman when this scholarship could be a progressive win? And

734
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: Daria isn't sort of tips the scale in the favor

735
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: of good versus evil, even though the company is just

736
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: doing this to look good. Take it girl, right, Like,

737
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: but again that's the dilemma, right, So you if you're

738
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: a Jodie, if you're a black woman, and you're like, hm,

739
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: this company is kind of racist and kind of sexist.

740
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: I want their money. I could maybe even frame me

741
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: getting this money as a win for progressivism. Maybe, But

742
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: you can sort of see how they're grappling with these

743
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: issues of being an anti racist and a feminist in

744
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: real time in ways that we all sort of have

745
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: to do, not to mention the class component here, in

746
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: that Jane was on our own in sort of this

747
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: application process and going for the scholarship as a woman

748
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: who doesn't come from a lot of means, whereas Daria

749
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: and Jodi were both able to hire a scholarship coach

750
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: to help them come up with the perfect, you know,

751
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: way to to talk their way into this scholarship. Again,

752
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: you have such a nuanced and authentic version of how

753
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: class and race all intersect in this college scholarship experience,

754
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: and in a way that I think most high school

755
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: shows just we're not showing at the time. So what

756
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: ends up happening is that they all go to this

757
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: interview process. Jane isn't just excluded. She doesn't even get

758
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the chance to do this um to get to the

759
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: interview stage. She doesn't even Yeah, she's not even in

760
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: the running. Daria and Jody are in the same interview

761
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: alongside their friend up Chuck, who is just sort of

762
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: this like throwaway a character who's hilarious but awful, and

763
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: Jody ends up deciding to just play the game right.

764
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: She's got homegirls, got her twists pulled up, she's wearing

765
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: like a pink suit. She gives all the right answers.

766
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 1: At one point in the interview, the scholarship committee asks Jody,

767
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: so what's your biggest weakness. Well, I'd have to say

768
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: it's that I care too much and sometimes I work

769
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: too hard, and I don't stop to smell the roses.

770
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: Like home Girl gives the best answers. She talks about

771
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: how she wants to use this scholarship to uplift other

772
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: people of color, how she's so so grateful that this

773
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: organization cares so much about diversity and you know, championing

774
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: women and people of color, even though she knows that's bs.

775
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: She totally totally plays the game, and you know what,

776
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. She doesn't get that scholarship. Meanwhile, Daria

777
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: decides she's gonna tell it like it is. She's gonna say, listen,

778
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: I know this company doesn't care about women, doesn't care

779
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: about people of color. Clearly none of us are gonna

780
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: get the scholarship, So why didn't waste her time? And

781
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: I think you really see both characters trying to figure

782
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: out what it means to play the game, and it's

783
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: like moral quandary that they're faced with, which is like,

784
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: do I do what's best for me? Do I take

785
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: a principle stand? Which does feel very nineties? Doesn't it

786
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: like early activism? It does? And in the end, what

787
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: I think is so great about how this episode ends,

788
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: it's a nuance, some complicated one all of the girls

789
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: realized that they actually did want this scholarship and their

790
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: bums they didn't get it, and Daria has to ask herself,

791
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: what does this mean? Does this mean that I'm a

792
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: sell out? Just mean I don't actually have anti racist

793
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: feminist ideals? Or is this just part of growing up?

794
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: It is maturing realizing that things aren't black and white,

795
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: and sometimes you get to compromise your morals to do

796
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: what's best for you. And yeah, but there's no resolution. Yeah,

797
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: I mean the ending it's so bittersweet because you're I mean,

798
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: this is the same stuff I think a lot of

799
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: us scrapple with. But I don't. I hate to go

800
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: back to grunge all the time. But it does remind

801
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: me of like a chord what is that called, like

802
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: a minor chord or whatever that a lot of those

803
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: songs kind of like, you know, unplugging the amp at

804
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: the end of the song, like that, that sort of

805
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: lack of an ending, that that discomfort at the end,

806
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: like this is unresolved. It just felt like very quintessential nineties,

807
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: and there were lots of us who are making tough

808
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: calls about doing what's best for you, and like oh, shoot,

809
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: like doing what's best for the world, and we were

810
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: starting to really have to confront the different between those

811
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: two things exactly. This is what I deal with all

812
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: the time. I think this feminist says anti racists as

813
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: people who have principles and ideals and values, it often

814
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: means looking at what they mean in the real world,

815
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: how do you actually put them into practice? And I

816
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: think Daria gave us this great model, great in that

817
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: it was unresolved. It's something that we're always figuring it out.

818
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: Daria and her friends didn't figure it out. They didn't

819
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: have the perfect answers. They were all willing to take this,

820
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: you know, racist corporation's money if it meant they were

821
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: going to have money for school. I mean, go back

822
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: and watch this episode. It really just I had no idea,

823
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: even though I loved Daria, I had no idea how

824
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: nuanced and complex and really mature and grown up the

825
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: show was. I mean, the show was wasted on me

826
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: when I was like sixteen saying I was just saying that,

827
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: like all of this would have flown right above my head,

828
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: but it definitely did. I mean I walked away from

829
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: that episode thinking Daria stuck it to the man. I saw.

830
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: I saw none of this gray area, none of this

831
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: kind of moral ambiguity in the show. When I was sixteen,

832
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: I was Daria gave us a red speech and stuck

833
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: it to the man. And then we were like, I

834
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: found myself applying to scholarship funds of like right wing

835
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: religious organizations, some of whom did fund my education or

836
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: pay for my books. And years later I was like, really, wait,

837
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: whose idea? It's like, how did my hyper liberal Jewish

838
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: father get on board like certain historically like Catholic organizations

839
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: funding my scholarship. The whole thing called they got built

840
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: a cash because sometimes, yeah, it's it's real, it's very,

841
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: very real. And I think at the end of the day,

842
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: that's what makes Daria so special is that it's real.

843
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: It's authentic, and it's imperfect, and it's sort of confusing,

844
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: and they didn't try to wrap it all up with

845
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: a nice bow. So neither will we, sminty listeners. We're

846
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: gonna leave you hanging in the world of apathy and

847
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: discordant conclusions here, like do we love Daria? I don't know,

848
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: And what do you think you sounded like? So that

849
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: was very, very good nineties slacker. I sounded like Thurston

850
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: More from Sonic You like, I don't know, man, I'm

851
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: just I'm just trying. That's right. I don't know what

852
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: is right? What is wrong? I mean, what is anything? Bro?

853
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: It's what do you have? Like? There's a lot of

854
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: male miss to that, man, you know what I mean?

855
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: I definitely this is going on a tangip and I

856
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: definitely talk in that way sometime. And it's a lot

857
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: of dude man, bro, Bro, I also say girl a lot.

858
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: But we should come back to a phonetics episode about that. Yeah, girl,

859
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,479
Speaker 1: it's always like an affirmative. Yeah, bro, and our gender

860
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: nonconforming friends think about that. Yeah, damn, that isss centric vernacular.

861
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: I promise you we'd leave you with a discordant ending

862
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: here we heard delivering on that. So what do y'all

863
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: think of Daria? Lets let us know what your thoughts

864
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: are on Daria was this dead pan icon of the nineties,

865
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: someone that you looked up to. Did you watch the show?

866
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: Why or why not? You can hit us up on

867
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: Instagram tag us and all those great Daria Halloween costumes

868
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: at stuff Mom never told you get at us on

869
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 1: Bitter at mom Stuff podcast, or get old fashioned email

870
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com