1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: Everyone knows Tracy Ullman as a brilliant woman who acts, sings, 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: makes us laugh, produces and directs work which makes us 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: think differently about the world we live in. I'm lucky 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: enough to know Tracy is all of the above, but 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: also as a friend, a mother, and quite simply the 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: sweetest person ever in a time of doubt and in decision. 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: One of the best yesses I've ever had was when 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: Tracy agreed to sing our love is here to Stay 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: at the River Cafe thirtieth birthday party. 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: Our love is here to stay together. 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 4: Weird going along long way in time. 14 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 5: I think I'm Rose mclooney. 15 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 4: The Rockies may crumble, just brought to may tumble. They're 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 4: only made of clay. But I sang, I love is 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 4: here to stay. 18 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 3: I love the River calthy. 19 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: Have you ever seen one thy five hundred people cry? 20 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 2: As my guest, Tracy and I will talk about food 21 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: and memories, life, work, family and friendship. Two women, two 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: friends whose love is for sure definitely here to stay. 23 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: Ruth seeing likewise, very very nice to be with you 24 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: and you're going to read your favorite recipe, which is 25 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: so interesting that you chose that recipe because not everybody 26 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: knows it, many people haven't had it, and you chose 27 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: it as yours. So would you like to read the 28 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: recipe for a garetti with tomato and pan grattato. 29 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 5: Okay, so I tell you why I chose it? Shall 30 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 5: I read recipe? I really love this and I've only 31 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 5: ever had a gretty at your restaurant. And then when 32 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 5: I said I was going to read this, and I 33 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 5: didn't know where a gretti was from, and I wish 34 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 5: I could find it as I was talking to you. Literally, 35 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 5: I walked into a shot and found So it's like 36 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 5: samphire a little bit, isn't it. 37 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: It's like a asparagus a river its it has that 38 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 2: grassy and you always you know you have it. 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 5: So it's very simple. But I like vegetables and I 40 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 5: like Italian vegetables, and this is just a very very 41 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 5: simple thing. But it's just so you and I love it. 42 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 5: Agretti with tomato and pan grettato Serve six to eight 43 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 5: or if I'm around, serves me six hundred grams of agretti. 44 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 5: One stale chibbata loaf, olive oil, slow cooked tomato sauce. 45 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 5: Snap off the bottom stalks from the agrette just below 46 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 5: the long leafy tops. Pulse chop the bread into bread crumbs. 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 5: Heat some olive oil in a frying pan and shallow 48 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 5: fry the bread crumbs until they are golden. Lift out 49 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 5: with a slotted spoon, and drain well on kitchen paper. 50 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 5: Warm the tomato sauce. Blanch the aggrette in a pan 51 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 5: of rapidly boiling salted water for three minutes or until tender. 52 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 5: Drain and dry on kitchen paper to remove all the 53 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 5: excess water. Put the aggrette on a plate and spoon 54 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 5: over the tomato sauce. Sprinkle with the bread crumbs, and 55 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 5: serve while warm. 56 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: Delicious, delicious. Interesting that you tell this, and you said 57 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: you found it in your local sharp you know, and 58 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: there it was, And how food has changed? But did 59 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: you grow up with Italian food? 60 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 5: My father, who sadly died when I was six, was Polish, 61 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 5: and so he liked lots of pickled things and soured creams, 62 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 5: and he was always putting things under the sink, and 63 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 5: you know, fermenting things and goose at Christmas and very 64 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 5: complex sort of chocolate coffee nut trts at Christmas. There 65 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 5: was that sort of food he liked. And my mother 66 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 5: was a South London lady who was very simple food. 67 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 5: Always grew her own vegetables, and I grew my own 68 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 5: vegetables and I wasn't allowed sugar or fast food and 69 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 5: I didn't like it. And I would just run home 70 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: from school and pick the spinach that we planted, and radishes, 71 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 5: and I like greens. And she was a simple cook, 72 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 5: but very good because she was like, you know, wartime 73 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 5: kid and dig for victory, you know, sort of worked 74 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 5: on the land. And she just really liked good, simple food, 75 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 5: my mother. 76 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: But your father died when you were six, which is 77 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: very young, but you have a strong memory of him, 78 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: as you say, pickles, and he's had a strong association 79 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: for you of your father with food. 80 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 5: And he's cooking, yes, because it was unusual food, and 81 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 5: when you're fermenting things under the kitchen sink, it's kind 82 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 5: of strange when your friends come home, you know. And 83 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 5: he liked you know, cucumber and dill and lemon, and 84 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 5: I always remember big goose. He would make big goose 85 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 5: and a kind of polish sausage dish. It took ages 86 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 5: to make. Everything in Poland takes days to make. It's 87 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 5: very complex. Slow cooked stuff was skis, plat skis, you know, 88 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 5: all sorts of He was born in Poland. He came 89 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 5: over during the war. He was at Dunkirk with the 90 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 5: Free Polish Army and the soldiers that was rescued and 91 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 5: brought to England and he never went back. And then 92 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 5: he was a lawyer and an interpreter and he had 93 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 5: a business in Slough in in England and near London, 94 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 5: and he was very successful and worked too hard and 95 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 5: sadly died very early. But yeah, he was quite a guy. 96 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: And it's interesting how I think people who have immigrated 97 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: from other cultures, from countries, they remember those smells and 98 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: the food of their family, bringing their culture to this country. 99 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: And how much richer we are because of it. Rye 100 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: bread and of course caveats. It was cheaper back then, 101 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: you could yeah wow. 102 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 5: And when I first had a bit of money just spent, 103 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 5: I would buy caviar and I never did drugs or 104 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 5: drink girls. I was a caviart. I had had like 105 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 5: a five hundred dollars a week addiction. And now it's 106 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 5: so expensive. Back in the eighties, you could still get 107 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 5: Iranian caviar, and I love cavia caviar. 108 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And did your mother would she cook with you? 109 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: Did you cook with her? 110 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 5: She was just as I say, she wasn't fancy cooked, 111 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 5: just very simple, very pleas we would like for her 112 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 5: and me, I'm still like this today. A meal for 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 5: me is I'll buy mushrooms, watercress, radishes, a piece of 114 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 5: mozzarella and some strawberries, and that's a meal to me. 115 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: Did you go to restaurants whatever? 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 5: No, I couldn't afford it. You know, we'ld have nice 117 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 5: picnics in the park and just fresh things and growing 118 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 5: our vegetables. And no, we never ate out. 119 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: And then do you remember your first when that kind 120 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: of changed for you? 121 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was sixteen. I left school at sixteen and 122 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 5: I went to Berlin as a dancer with a big 123 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 5: group of wonderful fun people, and we used to eat 124 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 5: out because we lived in I lived in a room 125 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 5: with to other girls, and for some reason we used 126 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 5: to go to an Italian restaurant in Berlin. And I 127 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 5: remember that you have pizza Funghi a spaghetti cabinaras it 128 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 5: was very very good, and that was glamorous to me. 129 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 5: And have always have a bottle of leave for a 130 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 5: milch with Italian food. But I remember that starting to 131 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 5: eat out that way. 132 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: And as a dancer, did you find there's a discipline 133 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: that you had to have to eating? Did you find 134 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: that you could perform if you'd had a night out 135 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: the night before or that you know, no. 136 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 5: Could We didn't eat till like two in the morning. 137 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 5: This was crazy. We were like we used to go 138 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 5: out after the show and come get inter ten in 139 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 5: the morning. Oh yeah, we were pretty wild. But we 140 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 5: had a wonderful girl with us, a dancer called Sarah 141 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 5: Brown who went on to become a professional chef. I 142 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 5: think she wrote books and had her own television programs 143 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 5: here and she used to cook for us. So we 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 5: had this amazing woman cooking for us. 145 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: How did you live there? 146 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 5: About four months? 147 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: Five months? And was that your first real trip away? 148 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 6: Yeah? 149 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: From how Yeah? 150 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 5: I loved it. Yeah, did you Berlin in the seventies. 151 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 5: It was so sexy and fun and crazy and decadent, 152 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 5: and I loved it. 153 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: Leaving home. Do you remember your routine of sort of 154 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: how you would work and then eat and cook. 155 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 5: Or I never really lived on my own. I met 156 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 5: somebody I was engaged when I was quite young. But 157 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 5: if I did eat on my own, which I did 158 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 5: because I liked this strange stuff as I keep going 159 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 5: back to watercress, almonds, blueberries even then, just really simple 160 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 5: sliced mushrooms, avocados, and it was hard getting avocados even 161 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 5: I see to say with my friend in the East End, 162 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 5: and you'd say to the green grows, so they're hello, 163 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 5: do you have an avocado? 164 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 6: Not walk it? 165 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 5: When I was a Christmas love, not much call from 166 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 5: some nice leaks. I was looking for an avocado. Really, 167 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 5: no leaks, no avocados. Why one weakness that everybody always 168 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 5: sold in England and they still do. It's bird's eyed 169 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 5: chicken pie. I think they're about a pound ruthie and 170 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 5: they're just it's something about the short cross pastry people. 171 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 5: I know, famous chefs, English chefs talk about these bird's 172 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 5: eyed chicken pies and they're delicious. There's nothing like one 173 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 5: of those with some gravy on it and some Brussels sprouts. 174 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 5: When you're cold in November and you come and I 175 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 5: still like a bird's eye chicken pie and that's the 176 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 5: sort of gosh, that's the craziest thing I eat normally 177 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 5: simple organic. I guess my life started when I met 178 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 5: my husband Alan, who you knew, and he really took 179 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 5: me to fantastic He's took me to the Royal Crescent 180 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 5: and bath, you know, and we had lobsters and we 181 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 5: still have the caprice. That room was wonderful. There's photographs, 182 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 5: some great food, interesting food places like the Horn of 183 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 5: Plenty in Devon. There was always like people that had 184 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 5: rest yeah, yes, yeah, And you'd go there and there'd 185 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 5: be this wonderful old country house and a cat having 186 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 5: kittens in the in the sort of front hallway who 187 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 5: come in and they'd say that would find places where 188 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 5: they'd say things like death needs a little nervous of 189 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 5: her custards. You know, Yes, she's been terrible nervous about 190 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 5: custards today. And you'd say the custard's marvelous, daf and 191 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 5: you should say, oh, is it really? Yes, it is. 192 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 5: And then I went to live in La with Alan. 193 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 5: I really had lived in America for thirty years and 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 5: Los Angeles was terrible for food. It was terrible. It's 195 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 5: iceberg lettuce and burghers, and you know, just now it's wonderful. 196 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 5: There's all sorts of organic markets and you know, farmers' markets. 197 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 5: But in the ages it was terrible. It was like 198 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 5: Vegas food and New York too. Yeah, it was like 199 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 5: they'd have Italian ford, you wine red, you want white sauce, 200 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 5: you want clams, you like egg plant? Why do you 201 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 5: want darland? You want an egg plant? 202 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: Poor? 203 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 5: I'm a john. But now, of course, yeah, you know 204 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 5: that food is wonderful. But yeah, it was all very like, 205 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 5: you know, heavy sauces. 206 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: But when you went to La were you working? What 207 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: were you doing? 208 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: Oh? 209 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 5: Yes, I was pregnant and I had my daughter Mabel 210 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 5: in eighty six, and then I did a television shows 211 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 5: for a long time, and I would always spend the 212 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 5: summers here and couldn't wait to get to We's got 213 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 5: a sudy here a lot when the kids were small, 214 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 5: because the Italians just love children. 215 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: What about when you go to a restaurant with somebody, 216 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: What do you look for in a restaurant? What do 217 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: you like about a restaurant? 218 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 5: I don't eat out a lot. Really. My daughter is 219 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 5: a wonderful cook, and her and her husband Harry make 220 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 5: wonderful things. They're all sorts. He'll make the best dispatcho 221 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 5: in the world. It'll take him hours and there'll only 222 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 5: be two cups, and you go, Harry, I could just 223 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 5: eat this forever. My daughter's neighbor is Simon Hopkinson. And 224 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 5: to have Simon Hoppey knock on your door and give 225 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 5: you some salmon pattae and some gaspacho and some rhubarb crumble, 226 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 5: we get very spoilt by him. 227 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: You are very loved in the River Cafe because your 228 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: foreign relationships. I've seen you. I've seen the way you are, 229 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 2: you know, with the way to the way you have. 230 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: You don't need to be their friend, but you are 231 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: respectful on your kind. 232 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 5: But there's some You've got some wonderful stuff that I've 233 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 5: known over the years. And I like Bassam. I like 234 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 5: teasing him about his trousers because he wears pink trousers. 235 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 5: He wears yellow trousers, and I always say, you wear 236 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 5: raspberry trousers. Pon, you know, Gilae start jumping around to 237 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 5: Coldplay records and get a slap, you know, and we 238 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 5: just do silly things. And you know, you know, I 239 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 5: knew Rose a wonderful late great partner. I met Rose 240 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 5: Gray in New York in the eighties and I remember 241 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 5: going to Nell's Campbell, who's friend of mine, Australian knock 242 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 5: at her nightclub and about three in the morning, she said, Darling, 243 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 5: Litsky Row, are you hungry? And you think three in 244 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 5: the morning, but yes, of course I am. Now, litzkit 245 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 5: this is wonderful. Lady's going to make us something to eat. 246 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 5: And Rose was so quiet, and she started bringing out 247 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 5: these little samples of things that were so divine. I'm like, wow, Rose, amazing, 248 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 5: and we just all sat and talked and you know, 249 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 5: were saying those things like you should have your own 250 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 5: restaurant here. You're brilliant. 251 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: Think that's how it all started. She was with nellan 252 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: it Nelts in New York, and then when Roe's decided 253 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: to come back, that's when we started the River Cafe. 254 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: I called her up and said, I think there's this 255 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: little site in the middle of nowhere. She would go 256 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 2: have a look, and we did, and the rest is 257 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: kind of history. So we did that. She was just brilliant. 258 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: There's been a lot of egos in the food business. 259 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: I think that when I came into this profession, people 260 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: warned me that it would be competitive, that people would 261 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: be other chefs would be resentful that we were two 262 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: women who didn't know very much, that we started from scratch, 263 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: as it were, and I found it so kind and inclusive. 264 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: And the people, I think the people who were starting then, 265 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: the Jeremy Kings, the Sally Clark's, the Earlie Lee's, that 266 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: Simon Hopkinson's were of a different We wanted to say 267 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: we can do great food, we can do great atmosphere, 268 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: and we can be respectful. You know. The idea of 269 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: the old fashioned chef was something we did not want 270 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: to be. And then when Rose died in two thousand 271 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: and ten, it was staggering to see the support that 272 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: I had. You know that suddenly a chef would arrive 273 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: and you know, I say do you have time for 274 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: a coffee, or a manager would come and say let's 275 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: sit outside of a drink and somebody's accounts managers say 276 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: do you need some help? Or Georgia looker, Telly, Jeremy 277 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: King say do you need a recipe? I mean, it 278 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: was very very supportive. So I think it hasn't been 279 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: my experience of ego, you know, I'm sure it's there. 280 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: But if you surround yourself, I'm sure it's the same 281 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: thing in the theater. It's who you become friends with. 282 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: Tell me about what you're working on, what is your. 283 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 4: Well. 284 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 5: I've had some nice things to do the last few years. 285 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 5: I did Missus and mar A Come with Cape Blanchette 286 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 5: that was on FX. Since that was all about I 287 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 5: played Betty for a Dan, which is a wonderful person 288 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 5: to get to be as sort of iconic American feminist, 289 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 5: and I loved doing that. I was in Canada for 290 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 5: like ten months. Doing that was a long shoot, so 291 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 5: I spent a long time there and then well then 292 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 5: this whole lockdown thing happened. I've done not doing my 293 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 5: shows at the moment. I'm sixty one now, you know. 294 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 5: I just not that I'm old or anything. I just 295 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 5: want to do stuff that I want to do. I 296 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 5: always see what comes up, you know. I love being 297 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 5: in London, more near my daughter and my grandchildren. And 298 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 5: I had a long marriage. I was married thirty years. 299 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 5: My husband died seven years ago now, and that was 300 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 5: really hard to become someone I'm you know, I didn't 301 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 5: want to become really, I mean, I like the version 302 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 5: I could be of myself with him. You saw him 303 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 5: many times, Alan, and we had a wonderful life together, 304 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 5: and we were together, and I've had to really adjust 305 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 5: to being another version of myself. But I'm doing good. 306 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 5: You're doing good, and I'm happy, and he'd be happy. 307 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 5: He loved his food, Alan, I remember, I remember. 308 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: I can close my eyes and see him right now. 309 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 5: Yes, he loved it here. And we you know, we 310 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 5: came here with the children when they were tiny, and 311 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 5: they used to roll around while we were eating our food. 312 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 5: It was always so great to bring the kids here. 313 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 5: Maybeor had her thirtieth birthday here, you. 314 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: Know, I think back to that birthday when you sang. 315 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: And there are two things we can do. I would 316 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: love you to tell me about your comfort food when 317 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 2: you think of Alan, or you feel somehow less than 318 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: hungry when sometimes just knew that bit of comfort. Is 319 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: there a food that you would turn. 320 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: To, well, I do like my chicken pie, my bird's 321 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 5: eye chicken. I haven't had one of those in a while. 322 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: What's my comfort food? 323 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 5: I love chocolate. I love really good percent chocolate, but 324 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 5: it has to be in the freezer. I put my 325 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 5: chocolate in the freezer, and I break off one square 326 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 5: every day, and I think it's very good for female brains. 327 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 5: And I can eat a piece of dark chocolate and 328 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 5: then I can write and write. 329 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: Okay, well that's it. 330 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 5: That's beautiful answer Why I love chocolate Nemesis. 331 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: The chocolate Nemesis, so you can get the word is 332 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: so funny. 333 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 5: Maybe always goes Nemesis Nemesis, and everything goes like Marston's 334 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 5: Gorse film, you know, when they're taking drugs and goodfellas Nemesis. 335 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous, Thank you, Jasey. The other thing we could 336 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: do before we say goodbye and go have a piece 337 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: of chocolate Nemesis is to sing a song. And would 338 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: you like to sing your song? 339 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 5: I think our listeners should now. I had a very 340 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 5: very brief career as a pop singer in the early eighties. 341 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 5: I had a wonderful song called they Don't Know About Us, 342 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 5: written by the late great Kirsty McColl. So I sing 343 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 5: sort of like Mini Mouse, You've taken Helius. I know 344 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 5: you were so sweet and you rang me on and 345 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 5: you said for your thirtieth And I said, would I sing? 346 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 5: I thought, why would Ruth ask me to sing? I 347 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 5: was so flattered, and I said, watched I sing, and 348 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 5: you went, do you know the song I liked? You 349 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 5: were on the phone, you went, It's very clear our 350 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 5: love is here to stay, not for you. 351 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 3: Whatever, and the day, the radio and the telephone and 352 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: the movies that we know may just be passing fancies, 353 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: and in time may go. But oh, my dear, our 354 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: love is here to stay together. 355 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 4: Weird going a. 356 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 3: Long long way in time. 357 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 4: Hi, rockies may crumble. 358 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 5: You brought him tumble. They're only made of clay. 359 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 3: But oh is here to stay. 360 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 6: I love the River cathe and we love you. Tersay allman, 361 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 6: thank you. 362 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 5: Very much, so lovey to do this in path. 363 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 2: This holiday season. If you can't come to the River Cafe, 364 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 2: the River Cafe will come to you. Our beautiful gift 365 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: boxes are full of ingredients we cook with and design 366 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: objects we have in our homes. River Cafe olive oil, 367 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: Tuscan chocolates, Venetian glasses of Florentine, Christmas cake made in 368 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: our pastry kitchen and more. We ship them everywhere. To 369 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: find out more or to play us your order, visit 370 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: shop Therivercafe dot co dot Ukka. 371 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and 372 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 373 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.