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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, they eat crowd, they fall

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Speaker 1: for it, and they're falling over themselves to go on

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Speaker 1: vacations with her, or to lend her money to help

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Speaker 1: her out because they believe she's sitting on a multi

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Speaker 1: million dollar estate. I'll tell you what, when people smell money,

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Speaker 1: it's just like dogs out in the dog parts, sniffing

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Speaker 1: each other's rear. End they sniff each other out at

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Speaker 1: those at Manhattan high society parties, and I can just

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Speaker 1: see them falling for Anna Delvi. Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: maybe they'll show Maybe they'll show up at her reality

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Speaker 1: TV series. From my understanding, I guess she's still on

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Speaker 1: house arrest. This reality TV series is set in a

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Speaker 1: Manhattan apartment, Oh like her apartment, where she hosts dinner

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Speaker 1: parties while serving out the rest of her house arrest.

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Speaker 1: Now that is just what I do not want to see,

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Speaker 1: a convicted felon having a dinner party in her apartment

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Speaker 1: wearing her ankle monitor. Now, how did the whole thing start?

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Speaker 1: I remember very well. Do you take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Inside Edition, She claims she was a wealthy heiress from

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Speaker 1: Europe worth more than sixty million dollars but it was

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Speaker 1: a lie. An as Organ went to prison for two

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Speaker 1: years for defrauding banks, hotels, and even her closest friends

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Speaker 1: out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Her trial drew

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Speaker 1: international attention. This woman made national headlines posing as a

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Speaker 1: wealthy woman. Now, the woman known as the SOHO Grifter

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Speaker 1: is speaking to ABC's Deborah Roberts. This is the first

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Speaker 1: time you've sat down for television interview. Why are you

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Speaker 1: talking with us? Why not? I would like to show

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Speaker 1: the world that I'm not this ungreedy person that they

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Speaker 1: portrayed me to be. You ask her who she really is?

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Speaker 1: Did she tell you Anna Saurkan is very complicated character.

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Speaker 1: You might believe that Anna Saurkan is a very gifted, clever,

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Speaker 1: want to be businesswoman or a complete con artist. And

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Speaker 1: there are many people in her wake who would tell

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Speaker 1: you that she is the classic con artist. Why can't

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Speaker 1: she be both? Why can't she be a great business

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Speaker 1: person and the ultimate scammer? I see her as both.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen hour cut one from the Vanity Fair

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Speaker 1: special Scandalous. By twenty sixteen, Anna Delvi was a regular

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Speaker 1: in the NYC social scene, frequenting many popular downtown restaurants,

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Speaker 1: ours and clubs, with an extravagant lifestyle and a seemingly

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Speaker 1: endless supply of money. Delvie was an enigma that was

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Speaker 1: made for the age of Instagram. Always at the right place,

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Speaker 1: with the right people, living her best life, but with

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Speaker 1: no apparent cause for her fame. With Me and All

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Speaker 1: Star panel to make sense of what we know right

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Speaker 1: now With Me Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red

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Speaker 1: Flags and hosted Today with doctor Wendy KCBQ. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Doctor Donna

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Speaker 1: Rockwell Special Guests joining US clinical psychologists in both Michigan

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Speaker 1: and New York specializing in celebrity mental health on faculty

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Speaker 1: Saybrook University. Jim Ellis with a Special Guests joining US

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Speaker 1: certified fraud examiner, former FED with the FBI. Don't mess

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Speaker 1: with this guy, FBI agent twenty nine years now, Private

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Speaker 1: investigator at jk E Texas Private Investigator jk ET dot com.

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Speaker 1: But first, I want to go to a woman I've

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Speaker 1: been dying to talk to. Rebecca Rosenberg with Fox News Digital.

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Speaker 1: She's a crime reporter and author of a fantastic book

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Speaker 1: at any cost. Rebecca, who is this woman? Who is

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Speaker 1: this woman? Well, her family came from Russia, they moved

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Speaker 1: to Germany, and I believe her father was actually a

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Speaker 1: truck driver. She does not come from a wealthy family,

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Speaker 1: and she just invented this identity when she came to

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Speaker 1: New York. Now, her coming to New York was quite

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Speaker 1: a story. So Russian born moving to Germany, the child

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Speaker 1: of a truck driver. She ends up getting a job

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Speaker 1: or an internship that takes her to Paris. From there,

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Speaker 1: the position brings her to New York. I believe it

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Speaker 1: was montak and and she very simply overstate her visa,

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Speaker 1: which thousands of people do every year, but none do

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Speaker 1: it in the style of Anna Sorokin. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our cut six our friends at Inside Edition. Is

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Speaker 1: she in a courtroom or at a red carpet event?

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Speaker 1: Anna Saurkin is accused of posing as an heiress to

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Speaker 1: live an extravagant lifestyle, but it's what she's wearing to

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Speaker 1: trial that is making headlines. The twenty seven year old

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Speaker 1: defendant showed up wearing a form fitting black dress with

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Speaker 1: a plunging neckline and choker necklace. It's a look that

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Speaker 1: could backfire. Warren stylist don Karen Black dress definitely a

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Speaker 1: no no. A hypersexualize her. It makes her appear to

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Speaker 1: be like a seductress. The choker kind of shows to

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Speaker 1: me that she's trying to be overtly sexy. The more

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Speaker 1: sexy she appears to be, it hurts her. Sourkin is

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Speaker 1: so obsessed with her clothes she refused to enter the

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Speaker 1: courtroom because the outfit she was given to wear was

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Speaker 1: not up to her standards. The angry judge told her

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Speaker 1: this is unacceptable and inappropriate. This is not a fashion show. Wow, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what. It didn't work. She continued wearing designer

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Speaker 1: clothes to every single court appearance. But this goes way back.

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Speaker 1: Her desire for a lifestyle she could not afford started

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Speaker 1: in her teens. Take a listening to every Buddy, Jesse

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Speaker 1: Palm or a daily MAILTV Anna, who interned at a

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Speaker 1: trendy French magazine, reportedly managed to scam extended stays in

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Speaker 1: swanky Manhattan hotels, dinner at high end restaurants, and flights

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Speaker 1: on chartered jets to finance her lavish lifestyle and keep

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Speaker 1: the grift going. She allegedly built banks out of thousands

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Speaker 1: in cash. And that's not all. The fake heiress reportedly

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Speaker 1: fleeced her friend out of sixty two thousand dollars for

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Speaker 1: a world class trip to Morocco. But Anna went too

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Speaker 1: far when she attempted to take out a loan for

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Speaker 1: twenty two million dollars to finance a visual arts center

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Speaker 1: she called the Anna Delvi Foundation. In all, Anna reportedly

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Speaker 1: scammed a total of two hundred and seventy five thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: and his double life began to crumble as hotels went

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Speaker 1: after her unpaid debts and banks began to investigate her

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Speaker 1: alleged assets. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, Well, she's back.

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Speaker 1: Fank German heiress Anna Delvi is shopping a reality TV

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Speaker 1: series set in where could it be? Oh her apartment

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Speaker 1: since she's on house arrest, where she hosts dinner parties

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Speaker 1: and has sparkling conversations with her guests featuring her ankle monitor. Now,

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Speaker 1: for those of you don't remember, she is a young

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Speaker 1: woman who posts a fake German heiress named Anna Delvie

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Speaker 1: for years her real name and a Sorkin, and she

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Speaker 1: says her new reality series will provide a quote glimpse

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Speaker 1: of the real woman. Right, Okay, she's already given us

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Speaker 1: a lot of glimpses of the real woman. I remember

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Speaker 1: when she wouldn't come into court because she did not

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Speaker 1: like her outfit. Do you know how many times a

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Speaker 1: defendant would not have street clothes and have gail clothes.

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Speaker 1: And I kept in my office a suit, a blazer,

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Speaker 1: the works for the defendants to wear so they could

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Speaker 1: not get a continuance or a delay in their trial

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Speaker 1: by claiming they didn't have clothes. Oh, yes, you'll have clothes.

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Speaker 1: I'll bring them. It'll tell me about five minutes, Joe

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Speaker 1: to get in my office and bring it back down here.

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Speaker 1: A nice blue coat, I got it, Salvation Army. It

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Speaker 1: looks great on everybody. One size fits all. This woman

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Speaker 1: actually would not come into court because she did not

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Speaker 1: like her designer outfit. She actually had designers dressing her

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Speaker 1: for her jury trial. Well, she got convicted anyway, but

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Speaker 1: not on every account, I might add. While the working

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Speaker 1: title is apparently Anna Delvi's Dinner Club, the so called

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Speaker 1: reality show would watch Anna Delvi inviting guests over to

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Speaker 1: her New York City apartment where she is serving her

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Speaker 1: house arrest while they have quote candid, unscripted conversations. You

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Speaker 1: do know that all the reality series are scripted, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're not real. I know they're called reality,

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Speaker 1: but they're not real anyway. What do we know about

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Speaker 1: Anna Delvey aka Anna Sarken. She pretended to be the

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Speaker 1: heir to a sixty million euro fortune and she ripped

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Speaker 1: off about two hundred thousand dollars from Banks hotels. I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just me, but to you. Doctor Donna Rockwell

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Speaker 1: joining US clinical psychologist Faculties Saber University. Doctor Rockwell, I

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Speaker 1: don't know very many people except maybe Eloise that lives

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Speaker 1: in hotels. No, I guess we don't really know many

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Speaker 1: people who live in hotels. But it's very posh, isn't

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Speaker 1: it to do that? She might be a Eloise poser?

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Speaker 1: I guess, But you know that makes her look really

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Speaker 1: unattainable and like she's got lots of money. So I

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Speaker 1: think people in her situation will do anything they can

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Speaker 1: to look like they're billionaires, not even millionaires. And Rebecca

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Speaker 1: Rosenberg joining us in Fox News Digital. Rebecca, she wasn't

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Speaker 1: just staying down at the Motel six. She was staying

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Speaker 1: at very very expensive and luxurious hotels. Yes, she was

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Speaker 1: staying at eleven Howard Street for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: Racked up a bill the tens of thousands of dollars,

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Speaker 1: and that's where she lived here for a big chunk

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Speaker 1: of the times in New York. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: really interesting that she created this illusion that super rich

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Speaker 1: and super educated people fell for, and I guess you'd

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Speaker 1: call it New York society. Until she went and basically

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Speaker 1: invited herself to be on a yacht in Abisa, and

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Speaker 1: then after everyone got off at the end of the vacation,

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Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend turn around and get back on

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Speaker 1: and stay for another week or ten days. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jim Ellis, you're the certified fraud examined her former FBI

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Speaker 1: agent twenty nine years for beat's sake. When you commandeer

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Speaker 1: a yacht with a captain and a staff and all

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Speaker 1: the food and you're out at sea and the gas,

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Speaker 1: that is a huge bill, a huge bill. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know, she probably could have been stopped and exposed

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Speaker 1: at that point if any of these people along the

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Speaker 1: way he lost money who got you enticed by her

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Speaker 1: story and had actually applied reason and common sense at

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Speaker 1: a certain point, things wouldn't have gotten as far as

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Speaker 1: as they did. Yeah, you know, that's really interesting. Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. You can hear her

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Speaker 1: on today with doctor Wendy CASEBQ. Doctor Wendy. I find it,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, I find it really interesting that the owners

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Speaker 1: or the people that had rented the yacht originally didn't

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Speaker 1: go after her. Now they were are really really wealthy

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Speaker 1: hamp Tonights. And I got to tell you something thing, Wendy.

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Speaker 1: I've been to the Hampton's a couple of times for

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Speaker 1: charity when I would be speaking to a group or

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Speaker 1: raising money somehow or other. That's the same, Wendy. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't wait till I packed up my little rental car

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Speaker 1: and got out. I mean, I knew I was a

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Speaker 1: dog upstairs. I did not get in. That was not

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Speaker 1: where I was supposed to be. And these rich people

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Speaker 1: that got ripped off but didn't report it what they

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Speaker 1: didn't want to look stupid or what. Yeah, no, that's right, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I'm like you. I'm more I'm more familiar with the

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Speaker 1: Hampton Inn, with the free breakfast. I'm stealing it. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: So this is the This is the problem with the

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Speaker 1: super super rich, and it is a problem because financial

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Speaker 1: responsibility should be everyone's responsibility. But they probably either didn't

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Speaker 1: know where didn't care. Why do I say that, because

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Speaker 1: we've covered so many stories where you do have the

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Speaker 1: ultra rich that are scammed are defrauded by somebody like Anna,

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Speaker 1: but don't consider it in the balance to be worth

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Speaker 1: their while to pursue it, not realizing there may be

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Speaker 1: so many other victims that they might be preventing by

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Speaker 1: putting it into it sooner rather than later. That may

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Speaker 1: be why they didn't say anything. I'm not quite sure

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Rosenborg what her motivation is other than just living

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Speaker 1: the high life. But imagine the impact she could have

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Speaker 1: made being the daughter of a truck driver. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm the daughter of a railroad worker and a bank teller,

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Speaker 1: and I know my parents were over time to send

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Speaker 1: me to college, send me to law school, and so

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Speaker 1: much more. She actually has a brilliant mind. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think that if she had been honest about

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Speaker 1: her origins, anybody, the people that she was trying to

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Speaker 1: hang out with the New York that they would have

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Speaker 1: really paid attention to her. We know she was born

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Speaker 1: in Russia, grew up in Germany. Her father worked in

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Speaker 1: a transport company and went and solved. At nineteen, she

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Speaker 1: left her parents and brother for Paris to pursue fashion.

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Speaker 1: She has only ever spoken very vaguely of her parents,

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Speaker 1: as she terms conservative. But while she's in Paris, she

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Speaker 1: takes on the name Anna Delvi and she shoots photographs

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Speaker 1: for a fashion art magazine named Purple. She only got

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Speaker 1: four hundred euros a month and she stayed financially dependent

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Speaker 1: on her parents, who would send her money pay for

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Speaker 1: her apartment. Then she had a breakup, headed to New

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Speaker 1: York and she went for a trip to Montauk and

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Speaker 1: then Fashion Week, and that really did it. When she

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Speaker 1: was at Fashion Week, there was no suggestion she would

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Speaker 1: ever turn back. She went from boutique hotel to boutique hotel,

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Speaker 1: always handing out CRISP one hundred dollar tips and putting

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Speaker 1: off bills with promises of wire transfer. Then never happened. So,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Rosenberg, I know we've got the one victim, Rachel

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Speaker 1: Delosa Williams, but that's two hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: What about all of the hotels and all the other

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Speaker 1: people she ripped off. A lot of people didn't come forward,

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Speaker 1: and actually, Rachel Delosia is really interesting because at the

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Speaker 1: end Rachel actually couldn't get paid restitution because the jury

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Speaker 1: did not find Stoken guilty of ripping her off. That

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Speaker 1: was kind of that was one of the charges they

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Speaker 1: did not convict on. Take a listen, our cut five

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Speaker 1: be our friends at time. Prosecutor Katherine McCaw says the

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Speaker 1: defendant has not a sent to her name as far

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Speaker 1: as we can determine, also noting that Sorokin is Russian born,

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Speaker 1: not German, though she could be deported to Germany no

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Speaker 1: matter how the trial turns out, as she's reportedly overstayed

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Speaker 1: her visa under the name Anna Delvi. She arrived in

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Speaker 1: New York with a high priced wardrobe and was known

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Speaker 1: for handing out one hundred dollar cash tips, reportedly saying

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Speaker 1: at different points that her father was a diplomat, an

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Speaker 1: oil baron, or involved in the solar panel business, none

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Speaker 1: of which are the case. People who knew her said

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Speaker 1: she often asked others to use their credit cards to

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Speaker 1: cover cab and plane fares, and then failing to repay them.

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Rosenberg Netflix multi episode creation Inventing Anna. What is it?

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Speaker 1: It's a show based on her life story, so based

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Speaker 1: on it kind of glamorizes her. I'd say her criminal

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Speaker 1: activity in New York for which she was convicted and

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Speaker 1: she sold her life rights to Netflix for them to

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Speaker 1: do the show. So this woman cons she cons big.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two from Vanity Fair.

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Speaker 1: Prior to their departure, Davis's manager told her Delvi's bill

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Speaker 1: in room charges were starting to mount and we're still unpaid.

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Speaker 1: As a result, the hotel changed Delvi's room code and

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Speaker 1: detained all of her personal belongings. To renew her visa,

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Speaker 1: Delvi said she had to spend intervals of time out

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Speaker 1: of the country, so she decided to embark on an

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Speaker 1: adventure to Morocco. She invited her New York City circle

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Speaker 1: of friends. This trip was the quintessential example of the

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Speaker 1: lavish lifestyle that Delvey was known for, a private villa

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Speaker 1: with a personal butler, all for just a mere seven

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars a night. During their trip, Delvey, making one

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Speaker 1: excuse after another, chress Williams to pick up the tab

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Speaker 1: more and more frequently. Eventually covering costs for dinner and

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Speaker 1: expensive Moroccan dresses, a stark change from the days Delvi

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Speaker 1: would pay for everything. Then one morning, Delvey was informed

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Speaker 1: by a hotel employee that they did not have a

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Speaker 1: working credit card on file. Delve brushed this off as

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Speaker 1: an issue with her bank, but soon after Williams was

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Speaker 1: pressured into putting down her credit card by hotel management

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Speaker 1: staff and security members. Knowing something was not right, Williams

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Speaker 1: left Morocco a thank German aires who ripped off her

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Speaker 1: a victims to the tune of thousands and thousands and thousands.

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Speaker 1: Has apparently already signed on a production company called Butternut,

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Speaker 1: which actually has a little bit of credibility, run by

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Speaker 1: a former Food Network president, Corny White, and MediaMogul Brand

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Speaker 1: Montgomery of Wheelhouse Entertainment. Guys, I'm afraid this is actually

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Butternut and Sorkin are currently shopping the

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Speaker 1: project to platforms hoping it will be picked up. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember Netflix, bit they paid Sorkin about three hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars to make a dramatization of her story,

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Speaker 1: which ends her up in the cam. Sorkin has been

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Speaker 1: coming in and out of her New York apartment, appearing

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Speaker 1: at windows getting press. Sorkin says she's quite excited about

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Speaker 1: the prospect of bringing together a curated group of friends. Jackie.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, I don't think we're going to be

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Speaker 1: invited a curated group of friends. Now. When I hear

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Speaker 1: the word curate, I think of someone curating great art

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Speaker 1: masterpieces for like the Metropolitan Museum of Art or the

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Speaker 1: MoMA Modern Museum of Art. I just curating friends. What now,

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Speaker 1: let me look at it again, curating a curated bringing

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Speaker 1: together a curated group of friends, and other words, friends

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Speaker 1: who won't blurt out anything about her conviction quote. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing like the experience of bringing together a curated group

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Speaker 1: of friends to share life stories and enjoy a great

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Speaker 1: culinary experience life stories. I would love to hear her

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Speaker 1: real life story about how she ripped everybody off with

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. But let's not forget about the people

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Speaker 1: that refleece out of good money. Is so called heiress

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Speaker 1: Jim Ellis joining us former fed with the FBI. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever seen anything like it where a person who

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Speaker 1: is so obsessed with a lifestyle or getting money actually

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Speaker 1: has alternate identities and scams and lies to even their

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Speaker 1: closest friends. They're lovers, Oh absolutely. I mean in her heart,

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Speaker 1: Anasauric is a con and she basically just cares about

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Speaker 1: herself and she doesn't care what's left in her wake.

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Speaker 1: And I've seen this through my career, both as an

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Speaker 1: FBI agent and as a private investigator. People act the

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Speaker 1: same way. I'm familiar with one con artist who dressed up.

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Speaker 1: He's a Southern Baptist boy from Louisiana, and he dressed

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Speaker 1: stuff like an Hasidic jew complete with clothing and makeup,

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Speaker 1: so he could go vouch to other people in the

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Speaker 1: Jewish community for himself. I mean that people will go

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Speaker 1: to no ends to satisfy their greed, to satisfy their

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Speaker 1: want for fame and power. How do you untangle a

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Speaker 1: case like this well, I mean, obviously from a law

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Speaker 1: enforcement perspective, you don't even know about it to somebody

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Speaker 1: who reports it. I think the one thing that the

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Speaker 1: Netflix show did a good job of, even if it

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Speaker 1: partly is fictionalized, is the dog at work of the

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Speaker 1: the investigative reporter. You can only tell so much online.

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Speaker 1: You have to get out there and talk to people

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Speaker 1: and get actual documents, and that's the only way to

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Speaker 1: untangle the deceit that the con puts up. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about her personality she goes to trial, she goes to trial.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear what the attorney said in court.

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Speaker 1: Take a list and our cut seven our friends ay,

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Speaker 1: she had to fake it until she can make it.

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Speaker 1: Those words from the defendant's own attorney, who claims she

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Speaker 1: never intended to commit a crime, but prosecutors call her

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Speaker 1: a fraud and a liar who would do almost anything

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Speaker 1: to prolong her life of luxury. This morning, the fate

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Speaker 1: of an alleged scam artist is now in the hands

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Speaker 1: of a jury, both sides wrapping up arguments for a

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Speaker 1: case that's drawn international outrage. The style savvy defendant even

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Speaker 1: turning heads in court wearing an animal print dress. She

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Speaker 1: called herself Anna Delvi, a fashionable globetrotter who prosecutors say

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Speaker 1: was pretending to be a high flying German heiress living

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Speaker 1: a fairytale life of glitz and glam among Manhattan's elite. Wow. Okay,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to her. Anna Sirokan, in her own

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Speaker 1: words are cut nine from the BBC did you get

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Speaker 1: a thrill from him. I mean, were you satisfied when

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Speaker 1: you got away with something, when you achieved something, when

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Speaker 1: you slipped under the radar and didn't have to pay?

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Speaker 1: Was it fronting? Absolutely not, because in my head I

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Speaker 1: never thought that I was cheating or getting away with anything.

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Speaker 1: In my head, like any money that would borrow from them,

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Speaker 1: they would be getting back. And I felt like they

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Speaker 1: portrayed me is like someone who is very manipulative, which

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Speaker 1: I don't think I am. And I was never really

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Speaker 1: liked too nice of a person. I was never like

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Speaker 1: really trying to talk my way and say anything. I

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Speaker 1: kind of just told people what I wanted and like

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Speaker 1: the either gave it to me or not, and I

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Speaker 1: just moved on. But she taught them into what she

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Speaker 1: wanted through lines. I mean, Donna rockwell, we really need

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Speaker 1: to shrink. How can she take hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: dollars in luxury hotels, clothing that she got her friends

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Speaker 1: to pay for, wreaking up credit cards she needs She'd

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Speaker 1: never pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars in credit cards,

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Speaker 1: all based on lines. I mean, she had to know

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Speaker 1: that was wrong. She wasn't just faking it, fake it

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Speaker 1: till you make it. She was outright lying for goods

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Speaker 1: and services. Yes, she was outright lying. That's how we

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Speaker 1: see it. It's interesting, you know, because a person who

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Speaker 1: has early life narcissistic wounds, Okay, I see, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what that means. What it means that someone is

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Speaker 1: only really thinking about themselves. You said a narcissistic wound.

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Speaker 1: What's a narcissistic wound? I know who narcissis is, but

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Speaker 1: what's a narcissistic wound? When we're babies, if our mother

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Speaker 1: or primary caretaker doesn't look at us and say, who

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Speaker 1: is a pretty baby? Who is a pretty baby, we

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Speaker 1: don't know that we exist. So without early life mirroring,

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Speaker 1: meaning the parent or the caregivers looking at you, you

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Speaker 1: know you're existing, You're smiling back, there becomes a deficit

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Speaker 1: that develops in a person, and that is who becomes

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Speaker 1: a narcissist or a self serving person in adulthood, and

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Speaker 1: we probably know many of them in our own lives. However,

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Speaker 1: in the context of same there's something called acquired situational

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Speaker 1: narcissist them which means that the situations that we come

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Speaker 1: into after we're a baby in other words, like Anna

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00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: when she was in her nineteen and in her twenties,

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Speaker 1: is enough to turn us into that kind of a person,

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00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: meaning all for me and none for you. And how

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00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: does she get away with that? She gets away with

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00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: it because she's in denial, which is a psychological coping mechanism.

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Speaker 1: So the only way that she can do these things

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00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: is to not have a conscience, to not think about it.

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Speaker 1: So she has a sense of acquired situational narcissism because

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Speaker 1: of her situation, and then wanted more of it and

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00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: more of it and more of it. And what people

401
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: don't really understand about saying is that it is addictive.

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00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: As heroine, the second we get a taste of the spotlight,

403
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: most of us, we want more and more and more.

404
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: And that's what happened with Anna. She was in denial.

405
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Speaker 1: She was projecting anything that she was thinking about herself

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Speaker 1: onto other people. She asked for what she wants did,

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00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: as we just heard on the tape, she got it

408
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: or she didn't get it, and she moved on. She

409
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: did not have a conscience to think about is this

410
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: the right thing? Am I hurting anybody? That's not how

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00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: these people think. And it became more and more and

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00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: more because theme is addictive, you know, Wendy passion. She

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00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: may have justified it in her own mind, certainly, not

414
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: defending her because this is irrational red, This is not reasoning,

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00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: it's irrational. She was taking from rich people in the

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00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: Hampton's I'm talking to, like thirty million dollar homes with

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00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, guesthouses that are bigger than our homes or apartments.

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00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: She was taking from someone that could afford it while

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00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: she overstayed on the yacht for a week because somebody

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00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: else much richer than her was paying for it. So

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Speaker 1: I wonder in her mind did she justify it that

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Speaker 1: way only had it been a very short amount of time,

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Speaker 1: or something over a weekend or maybe even a week.

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Speaker 1: But out of time, the duration that this went on,

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Speaker 1: there was no conceivable way in her mind that she

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Speaker 1: possibly could have thought she would pay any of it back.

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00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: You know, she may have faked it until she made

428
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: it when she first got to New York, but when

429
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: stealing money from others over that period of time, faking

430
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: it is fraud. Hopefully that was a sound bite somebody

431
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: used at her trial, because there's no other way circumstantially

432
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: you can justify that many victims over that long period

433
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: of time, and even now it's still all about her.

434
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Emily Mateless at the

435
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: BBC cut ten. Why do you think so many people

436
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: believed you then? What was it in your personality that

437
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: could convince people? I don't know. I think like maybe

438
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: believed I was smart and I was working on something

439
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: that was that could have like a great potential and

440
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: that would be successful. I don't know. I don't feel

441
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: like it has much to do with my personality. I

442
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: guess i'd like I really believed in myself and what

443
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: I was doing. I don't know, It's it's hard to playing.

444
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: I guess like people just see like I'm talented, and

445
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: I was fokist, and I worked hard and I couldn't

446
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: make them a lot of money. Rebecca Rosenberg worked hard

447
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: at what. Every time I see a photo or a

448
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: post of her, she's on a luxury trip or she's

449
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: shopping at WHAT Well. I think I think her A

450
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: lot of her victims wanted to believe in her success

451
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: because it meant their success too. You know, if she's saying, Okay,

452
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to build this. Anna Delby Foundation in Manhattan

453
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: for twenty two million. And you know one of the person,

454
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: one of the people she'd do with the architect, Well

455
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: for him, you know, he wanted to be involved in

456
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: that big project, so he wanted to sort of believe

457
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: the lie because it would ultimately help him. So I

458
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: think a lot of it was people wanting to kind

459
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: of believe it was true because there was an advantage

460
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: to them. These are just some of the things. And

461
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: I want to go to you on Jim Alice that

462
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: we have uncovered falsify financial documents from international banks wait

463
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: for it, totally approximately sixty million euros, securing a loan

464
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: of one hundred grand after lying to bank reps from CTI,

465
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: depositing countless bad checks and to other banks. I guess

466
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: you know how you flow to check deposit a check,

467
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: you would draw the funds, and then you try to

468
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: short up from another bad account so that won't fall through,

469
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: and then another You basically play ropa dope on banks.

470
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: That was totaling nearly eighty thousand dollars. That doesn't include

471
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: the money she conned off her friends, never paying them

472
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: back deft of services almost a half a million dollars.

473
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: I mean that's a lot of money. Jim. Oh, absolutely,

474
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: it's a lot of money. And you mentioned it earlier.

475
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: You weren't sure how she ever worked hard. She worked

476
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: too hard in preparing all these fraudulent documents and passing

477
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: all those bogus checks and coming up with stories that

478
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: were plausible but yet not too specific. The life of

479
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: a con is hard work, and they do it for

480
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: the for the power, they do it for the money,

481
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: they do it for the thing. I think she solved

482
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: the banks as her potential savior. You know, you think

483
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: of of like Elizabeth Holmes with Sarinos. You know, was

484
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: she a genius or was she a scam artist? You know,

485
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: if if, if Sorkin was able to produce all these

486
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: phony documents and convince a bank to lend her twenty

487
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: two million dollars. So why explain that to us, mere mortals,

488
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: What do you mean, produce phony documents and convince big

489
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: banks to learn her lots of money? Sure it happened.

490
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: You know, she apparently was really adept in Adobe photoshop.

491
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: I mean, she was taking documents and altering them to

492
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: convince the bankers that she had Swiss bank accounts, that

493
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: she had trust documents that she had lawyers and CPAs

494
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,239
Speaker 1: or accountants over in Europe, and it was going at

495
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: least to a certain extent, probably until it hit the

496
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: underwriting department, the people in the back of the office

497
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: who makes sure everything's all the boxes are checked. It

498
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: was it was painting a picture of her, of exactly

499
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: who she was claiming to be. And I think if

500
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: she probably she possibly could have felt that if she

501
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: was able to land that loan, in her mind, she

502
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: probably was going to pay all those people back that

503
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: she had scammed prends. In her mind, it's and she

504
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: may have, we don't know. She's kicking the can down

505
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: the road. She's getting her next victim, and when that,

506
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: when it comes time to pay them back, she'll work

507
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: about that later. It's it's never ending. I mean, it's

508
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: it's what brings down every Ponzi scheme in the end.

509
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: And this wasn't a large scale Ponzi scheme. But you know,

510
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: some of that money she scammed from from through those

511
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: phony checks that she deposited with City Bank and the

512
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: loans she got from um City National Bank, she used

513
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: to pay some of her debts that to the hotels

514
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: and other businesses so that she could stay afloat and

515
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: maintain that illusion. Well, jem Ellis, I guess what you're

516
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: saying is she would pay back the hotels to the

517
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 1: extent that she could get them to allow her to

518
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: stay there for even longer. I mean, what does it mean,

519
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: Dakota check? Well, d Kaida check. And it's a lot

520
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: harder nowadays than they used to be because the float,

521
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: which is the time that the check is deposited into

522
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: one bank and actually clears in the originating bank, it's

523
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: so much shorter. But you you basically take it and

524
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: you present it to a bank that you know is worthless.

525
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: Ordered may appear it has funds, but by the time

526
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: that check is presented for payment to the originating bank,

527
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry this is probably very very technical, there

528
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: aren't any funds available. And from what I read, she's

529
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: submitted one hundred and sixty thousand dollars worth fraud in

530
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: the checks and she was able to get seventy thousand

531
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: in cash out of it. That's not that's actually a

532
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: really good turnaround on the scam crime stories with Nancy

533
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: Grace Delvey's Dinner Club. That's what Anna Delby slash Sorkin

534
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: is calling a reality series that she is hawking making

535
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 1: money off her crime. Quote. Delvi's Dinner Club will reveal

536
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: the actual woman behind everything we've read and watched about Anna.

537
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: She is breaking her story in her own words, and

538
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: we believe she will defy viewers expectations. Listen, I've been

539
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: in the crime business a long time, in the TV

540
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: business a long time, and that is absolutely a script

541
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: written by some TV producer. She is breaking her story

542
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: in her own words, and we believe she will defy

543
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: viewers expectations. I bet she won't be inviting the prosecutor

544
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: over for one of her curated friend groups and culinary delights.

545
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: Can I just give you one more quote? The show's

546
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: quote Esteemed guests will be encouraged to ask Sorkin about

547
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: her criminal exploits, according to a press release, It will

548
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: also focus on her experience living under house arrest in

549
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: the East Village department she's been living in since her

550
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: release from prison. Last Fault. You know what I want

551
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: to hear about how she's turning her life around, paying

552
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: back all her debts and all of her victims. If

553
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: you don't believe me, when you don't know a horse,

554
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: look at our track record, take a listen to our

555
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: friends at GMA. Good Morning America. The courtroom drama played

556
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: out late into the evening. At one point the jury

557
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: appeared deadlock, the defense asking for a mistrial, but then

558
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: the verdict, jurors agreeing with the prosecution that Anna Saurikin

559
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: built her fairytale life on a foundation of theft and lies. Overnight,

560
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: a New York City jury finding socialite Annasaurkan, a so

561
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: called SOHO grifter, guilty on eight counts, including grand larceny,

562
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: attempted grand larceny, and theft of services. Prosecutors arguing the

563
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: twenty eight year old stole a quarter of a million

564
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: dollars from banks, hotels and friends to fund a lavish lifestyle.

565
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: The jurors obviously believed our point of view and followed

566
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: our logic and acquitted her for the top charges. I'm

567
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: sad and that she was convicted of some of the

568
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: other charges. Sorkin was acquitted of two charges, including the

569
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: most serious attack, paying to steal more than one million

570
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: dollars from City National Bank. She now faces deportation and

571
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: up to fifteen years in prison. Jee Rebecca resib joining

572
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: us from fox Sties Digital explained the split verdict. What

573
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: was she convicted on, ann on what was she acquitted.

574
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: She was acquitted on trying to score this massive twenty

575
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: million dollars loan, which was one of the top charges.

576
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: That was the attempted grand larceny, and she was acquitted

577
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: of stealing the number kind of buried, but around seventy

578
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: thousand from Rachel Deloche. That was the trip that she

579
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: invited her best friend at the time, Rachel delochean to

580
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: Morocco where they stayed me seven thousand a night riad

581
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: in Marrakesh, and at the end of the trip she

582
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 1: stuck her with to bill. She persuaded her to put

583
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: the entire trip on her credit card and she would

584
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: pay her back. So those were the two main counts

585
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: she was acquitted on, and then she was convicted in

586
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: she was convicted in the chartered plane incident. Wait well wait,

587
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: let me let that so Ken Rebecca Reisenberg, They chartered

588
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: plane incident? What was that? So it was called blade

589
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: as the company, and she persuaded them to fly her

590
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: without paying up front to a Berkshire Halthaway conference in Omaha,

591
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: and basically was like, I'll pay you later, and they

592
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: thought she'd paid them later and she didn't. And that

593
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: was about thirty five thousand dollars. It was a chartered flight.

594
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: They chartered flight incident. Okay, so she ends up going

595
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: to not just jail, but to Rikers. Is anybody on

596
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: the panel familiar with Rikers? Okay, yes, just that reputation. Yeah,

597
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: you don't want to go there unless you have to

598
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: take a Listen to Anna Sarokin speaking to our friend

599
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: Deborah Roberts at ABC. Now thirty years old, Sarakin says

600
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: she's paid for her mistakes, her time behind bars, including

601
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: nineteen months in New York's infamous Rikers Island jailed, some

602
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: of it in solitary confinement. You're being held in Rikers,

603
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: one of the most frightening jails in the country. What

604
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: was that like for you? Were you terrified in a

605
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: way that was therapeutic? I mean it's a therapeutic I

606
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: for example, use the time, like to read a lot

607
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: and to write. You've heard that, you've said that the

608
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: prison is kind of a waste of time. Yeah, taking

609
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: a person, stripping them off everything, putting them somewhere where

610
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: they have pretty much very few opportunities to rehabilitate. So

611
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: how is this supposed to help someone who already had

612
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: to resort to life of crime? And that tells me

613
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: right there that Anna Delvi aka Anna Strokin learned nothing

614
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: from her time behind bars, Windy patric nothing. It also

615
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: tells us that she is admitting that she was to

616
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: a life of crime, which countradicts everything she said before

617
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: the trial and even in some interviews after the trial.

618
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: She knew because she wasn't working, as you pointed out

619
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: several times, there was no way she was going to

620
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: be able to repay these loans. But sitting through the trial,

621
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: sitting in Riker's Island prison therapeutic you have to wonder

622
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: whether she received special treatment. We don't know one way

623
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: or the other, but it is very interesting that her

624
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: attitude apparently hasn't changed. I'm sure she got special treatment

625
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: because she had managed to convince everyone that she was

626
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: a celebrity that deserves special treatment, you know, Rebecca rosen Burk,

627
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I understand the not guilty on the

628
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: sixty grand she ripped off from Rachel Delisha Williams. What

629
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: was the jury's thinking? Well, I spoke to a couple

630
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: of jurors after the verdict, and they kind of felt

631
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: that in the end, Rachel came out ahead, even though

632
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: it was this like really stressful situation for her where

633
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: she had put the payment for the trip on her

634
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: work visa card and just you know, it was a

635
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: sum of money that was greater than what she earned

636
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: as a salary. But eventually, you know, she did, she

637
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: did end up with I think her book advanced was

638
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars. I don't know what she got

639
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: paid from HBO. So I think that they just didn't

640
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: feel that bad for her. But why because why did

641
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: they not feel bad for Rachel Williams Because she was

642
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: also using Anna stroke and you could say, like she,

643
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of weird, like she's going out

644
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: with Anna all the time and Anna's always paying for

645
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: absolutely everything. You know, It's it's I personally wouldn't feel

646
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: that comfortable if I was going out with somebody, even

647
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: if they were much wealthier than me, with them footing

648
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: the bill every time. So I think that was kind

649
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: of their reasoning. Take a listen to what happens immediately

650
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: when she walks out from behind bars ar cut fourteen

651
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: inside Edition. You walked out of prison a free woman.

652
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: Hid What was the first thing you did that brought

653
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: me my phone? So I got on social media. She

654
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: came out of prison and immediately sat down to do

655
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: this interview with us, and immediately went on social media

656
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: and immediately started to resume kind of a glamorous life.

657
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: Surkin is now back in custody awaiting a hearing to

658
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: see if she will be deported to Germany. The big

659
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: question is will she be released. She could be in

660
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: the next few weeks, and will she be deported. But

661
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: whatever happens, there is no question in my mind that

662
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: we have not heard the last from Anasaurikin. So the

663
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: first thing she does is hot on social media. What

664
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: does that tell you, doctor Rockwell, the same thing it

665
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: tells you, doctor Gray, that she didn't feel bad about

666
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,479
Speaker 1: one thing through this entire event, that there's a lack

667
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: of conscience, and that she was loving the spotlight and

668
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: she couldn't wait to get back into it. As I say,

669
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: it's an addiction. It makes the hormones flash in your mind.

670
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: You have endorsed in. Your brain comes alive with your

671
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: own image, and you love it. You salivate over it,

672
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: and that's what happened to Anna Sorkin, Jim Ellis certified

673
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: Fraught Examiner or now with his own firm JKE Texas

674
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: dot Com, Jim shopaholics or people that get a thrill

675
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: out of buying things. I think Anna Sirokan aka Anna

676
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: Delvi got a thrill of some sort of this fake

677
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: life she was leading. Do you think someone like her

678
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: can turn over a new leaf or is this just

679
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: who she is? Well, that's a good question. I mean,

680
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: I always hope I didn't say what you hope. Jim Ellis,

681
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: you investigated so many con guys, what do you think

682
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: they don't stop? I mean, as you pointed out, she

683
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: immediately got back on social media, And I agree with

684
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: doctor Rockwell that it was for the endorphin rush of

685
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: getting that hit, of getting that fame and putting out

686
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: that projection. But I think it's also a certain aspect

687
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: that that is rebuilding her stature so that she can

688
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: now see where she can get her next meal ticket from.

689
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: But who in their right mind would want to work

690
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: with somebody that just got out of prison for defrauding

691
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of dollars from the people she was

692
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: closest to well, you know what, I may have an answer.

693
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: Take a listen to my long time friend and colleague

694
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: at ABC, Deborah roberts Our cut twelve now out on parole.

695
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: Sorkin's documenting her freedom on social media, moving into a

696
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: new apartment, shopping and dining out her new life, financed

697
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: partly by a Netflix deal she signed while behind bars.

698
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: It's said to be worth just over three hundred thousand dollars.

699
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: Many people would find that very strange that you had

700
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: gotten into trouble, you went to trial, you went to prison,

701
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: and there's a Netflix steel around your story. I find

702
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: it strange steal. So were you sort of milking your

703
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: crime for the fame? No, definitely not. Do you feel badly?

704
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: Do you have regrets? I feel like I'm just trying

705
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: to deal with the consequences of my actions. I was young.

706
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: I would not repeat my actions. I'm just trying to

707
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: make the best out of my situation. The reality is

708
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: Anna Sorkin was born to working class Russian parents. She

709
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: grew up in Germany, moved to New York twenty thirteen

710
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: and launched her roofs her scam, which included fabricating financial

711
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: documents to back up proclaims of having millions and millions

712
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: and trust funds to swindle banks, realtors, and people that

713
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: believed they were her friends into paying for her lavish lifestyle. Okay, guys,

714
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: if you want to watch Delvi's Dinner Club, have at it.

715
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: I'll stick to the court transcript Nancy Grace Crime Stories

716
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,