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Speaker 1: I'm Jake Calbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season

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Speaker 1: is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago.

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Speaker 1: He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk

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Speaker 1: free until one day when he started talking with the

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Speaker 1: FBI and promised that he could take the mob down.

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Speaker 1: I've spent the past year trying to figure out why

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Speaker 1: he flipped and what he was really after. Listen to

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Speaker 1: deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. What girls in the Forest,

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Speaker 1: our imagination, and our family bonds. The forest is closer

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Speaker 1: than you think. Find a forest near you and discover

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Speaker 1: the Forest dot Org. Brought to you by the United

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Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the AD Council. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to our show. I'm Zoe de Channel and I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to be joined by my friends and cats Meats,

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Speaker 1: Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to recap our hit

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Speaker 1: television series New Girl. Join us every Monday on the

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes. Each week,

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Speaker 1: we answer all your burnie questions like is there really

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Speaker 1: a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus you'll

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Speaker 1: hear hilarious stories like this that was one of m

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Speaker 1: yea all professional pasketball players. Yeah yeah. Listen to the

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know

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Speaker 1: this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the

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Speaker 1: week that just happened is here in one convenient and

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Speaker 1: with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to

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Speaker 1: in a long stretch if you want. If you've been

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Speaker 1: listening to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be nothing new here for you, but you can make

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Speaker 1: your own decisions. God Area takeover. I asked for I'm grunting.

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Speaker 1: That was like a word what okay, what it was?

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Speaker 1: I know lots of they could have been here. And

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Speaker 1: openings have become Bastard's openings now just kind of opening.

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Speaker 1: Robert doesn't have more than one type of opening. There's two.

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Speaker 1: There's there's grunting and then yelling something weird that is

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Speaker 1: that's basically the same learning how to do your job

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Speaker 1: is cuk shit. Also, to be honest, most of the time,

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Speaker 1: doesn't know which podcast he's doing. What is this are

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Speaker 1: we doing? Is this the daily sidegeist? Is this is

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Speaker 1: my Jack O'Brien, this is this is it could happen here.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking today about the different things that are

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Speaker 1: it here being the States this time. UM, but we're

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Speaker 1: talking about basically, over the course of the past few months,

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Speaker 1: we have covered a few different topics on the show, UM,

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Speaker 1: some of which have already kind of had some results

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Speaker 1: of had up dates to what we've already covered. So

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Speaker 1: we're I'm gonna I'm gonna go through a list of

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Speaker 1: like a three different things we've covered and talk about

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Speaker 1: kind of the updates in these stories. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: most of what we've covered around these topics have been

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Speaker 1: like a mix of original reporting and interviews. So now

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Speaker 1: there's been further further work down on this, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to kind of update people. If you know,

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Speaker 1: they're not as terminally online as us, maybe they have

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Speaker 1: not heard that there's been changes to these stories. And

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Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of put together a nice little

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Speaker 1: concise thing talking about updates to all the things we've covered. UM.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing that we're gonna be talking a

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Speaker 1: bit about is the Cops City in Atlanta, and they

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Speaker 1: defend the Atlanta Forest collision. So I think like a

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Speaker 1: day after our episode dropped on that, UM, Atlantic City

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Speaker 1: Council voted UH ten to four in favor of getting

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Speaker 1: the militarized police training facility greenlit Um nicknamed Cops City.

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Speaker 1: There was seventeen hours of public testimony. We're seven many

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Speaker 1: percent of the callers bilk out against the facility. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that we had that happen in Portland. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't Yeah, Yeah, it never matters. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: the vast majority, especially when there's especially when this money involved. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do not, do not ever be deceived into thinking that

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Speaker 1: you live in a democracy and that what you actually

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Speaker 1: want to matter is in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: This is just not This is empirically not true. Like

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Speaker 1: like sixty percent of Texans periods support vaccine mandates in

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Speaker 1: some instances, but the governor just made it illegal to

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Speaker 1: do them. Ever, Um, Like it's it's it's that way

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Speaker 1: across the board across the nation. UM. People ask sometimes

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Speaker 1: because like you know, when you get into anarchists discussions

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Speaker 1: of politics, there's a lot of criticism of democracy. I

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Speaker 1: don't I think democracy is a lovely idea. I would

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Speaker 1: like to try it something. It would be nice to

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Speaker 1: get it ago. It would be nice to experience. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: this Sin City Council voted to least the acres of

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Speaker 1: city owned forest land to the Atlanta Police Foundation, UM,

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Speaker 1: at least eighty five acres of which is going to

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Speaker 1: be slated to become the police training facility. UM. The

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Speaker 1: facility is going to cost around ninety million dollars. Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 1: I could train cops much cheaper than that, although training

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Speaker 1: is the wrong word. Yeah, that is the wrong word

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Speaker 1: for that. UM. So yeah, no, nine million dollars. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna include. It's gonna include a state of the art

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Speaker 1: explosive testing facility, firing ranges, emergency vehicle operations course, a

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Speaker 1: classroom space, UM, and an emergency and an emergency space

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Speaker 1: will probably learn to read right. I'm sure it's for

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Speaker 1: teaching people to do bad things. UM. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be an emergency helicopter pad and an entire like mock town.

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Speaker 1: It is good that they have the emergency helicopter pad

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Speaker 1: because cops shoot each other with live ammunition all the time,

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Speaker 1: and that does happen. Does happen a lot so yeah,

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Speaker 1: the main backroupd for this project is the Atlanta Police Foundation,

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Speaker 1: which is a political advocacy group that you know, has

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Speaker 1: a lot of funding from corporations and they try to

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Speaker 1: you know, sway the political power of the city and

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Speaker 1: to giving more power to the police. Um uh huh.

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Speaker 1: So the interesting thing about this though, is like the

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Speaker 1: vote was supposed to happen in August, UM, but it

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Speaker 1: was rescheduled for early September after there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of public backlash around this proposal. Um. Then the vote

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Speaker 1: that was supposed to happen on like thet got pushed

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Speaker 1: back the whole day because there was too many callers

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Speaker 1: saying that they didn't want the facility. So the vote

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Speaker 1: got pushed back a day in September, but it stays

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Speaker 1: still voted for it. Yeah, So thirty million dollars is

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Speaker 1: going to be footed by taxpayers and the other sixty

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Speaker 1: million is going to get paid for by the Police Foundation,

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Speaker 1: which has a lot of different like corporate donors. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's that um. And of course it's

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Speaker 1: on you know, on this forest land, which is like

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Speaker 1: some of the you know, biggest forest land in any

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Speaker 1: major American city, so you know, they're tearing down all

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Speaker 1: this forest to build this concrete city to train cops in.

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Speaker 1: We also mentioned that at the end of her interview

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Speaker 1: with some of the people resisting the they basically said, like,

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Speaker 1: if the vote goes through, resists is going to continue,

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Speaker 1: so we will continue. There's probably gonna be efforts to

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Speaker 1: like actually try to physically prevent the construction of this.

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Speaker 1: But the next thing we're gonna be talking about is

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Speaker 1: stop line three um, which mean there was also you know,

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Speaker 1: physical efforts to prevent that. But the type of efforts

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Speaker 1: that people usually do in you know, modern green activism

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Speaker 1: usually are a lot more performative or they're specifically to

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Speaker 1: pressure to create scenes that will try to convince politicians

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Speaker 1: to veto the process. So it's not you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's different from the nineties when it was easier

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Speaker 1: to like actually physically stop the prevention of things. Now

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Speaker 1: a lot of the people who you know are trying

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Speaker 1: to do this, it is they're not convinced that, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing a lock box is going to actually physically prevent it.

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Speaker 1: What it's gonna do is create media coverage that truy

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Speaker 1: that is going to hopefully convince politicians to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't do this, and that's a hard bargain, right,

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Speaker 1: that's not there's no saying that that's actually going to

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Speaker 1: do the thing. Know, in the in the case of

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Speaker 1: stop Line three that did not stop line three. Um.

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Speaker 1: There was a really good uh um critique of the

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Speaker 1: stop Line three protests posted in It's going down by

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Speaker 1: an Indigenous anarchist who lives on that land who was

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Speaker 1: like younger um, and they're you know, watching all of

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Speaker 1: these you know, older indigenous anarchists, you know, keep on

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Speaker 1: getting arrested and brutalized, Like, but we're not actually doing anything.

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Speaker 1: And the methods that we're doing that, the methods that

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Speaker 1: we're trying to like, you know, game public support, this

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Speaker 1: isn't working in this specific context. Maybe we should reevaluate

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Speaker 1: what we're actually doing. I know It's going down, and

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Speaker 1: faced a bit of backlash for posting that critique, but

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Speaker 1: I think that I think the critique is actually worth reading.

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Speaker 1: Any other thoughts on the Atlanta thing before I move

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Speaker 1: on to the stop line three stuff, um, No, no

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Speaker 1: other than to note that I think the best brisket

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Speaker 1: I've ever had came from Atlanta. Okay, well I'll probably

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Speaker 1: I'll probably visiting Atlanta in the near future, maybe there

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Speaker 1: with you, um, in which case I'll get some more

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Speaker 1: motherfucking brisket. Yeah. It was actually the fun story. We

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Speaker 1: were road tripping through town, me and another friend in

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Speaker 1: another car and we were talking over radios and a

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Speaker 1: trucker got on like the channel we were on because

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Speaker 1: we were talking about where to get barbecue, and he

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Speaker 1: told us where to go. Um. It was neat. It

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Speaker 1: was like an actual nice, like like moment of CB

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Speaker 1: radio connection. Like this guy was just scanning the waves

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Speaker 1: and found us and I was like, oh, I can

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Speaker 1: tell you where to go anyway, continue Garrison. That was

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Speaker 1: completely unrelated to stopping Line three. So the next thing

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Speaker 1: is earlier, I think in September maybe August. I forget,

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Speaker 1: it's been a while. We we we posted two episodes

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Speaker 1: about me visiting the top Line three protests and the

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Speaker 1: Earth First camp, and a lot of stuff has happened

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Speaker 1: since then. UM. So you know, the main you know

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Speaker 1: thing is that the pipe planet has been finished now

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Speaker 1: um and is basically getting is ready to be operated,

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Speaker 1: or it probably already has some operation. It's unclear how

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Speaker 1: much is being used right now, but it is done construction.

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Speaker 1: It doubles the capacity of the original pipeline. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be doing like a seven hundred and sixty thousand

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Speaker 1: barrels of oil a day's so in the carves outland

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Speaker 1: through through wet lands where people grow wild rice and

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Speaker 1: do hunting. Um So, overall the past few months police

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Speaker 1: arrested over nine people, and it's there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of like felony charges specifically for locking down, which is

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Speaker 1: pretty new because they're using felony theft charges for people

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Speaker 1: just locking down to equipment. Yeah, that is an unfortunate escalation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Um So by the time we posted our top line

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Speaker 1: three episodes, we kind of already figured this was going

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Speaker 1: to be the result that That's kind of how he

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Speaker 1: ended the episode saying, there's been all this resistance, but

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Speaker 1: probably it's going to get built, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: other things that we can learn from this movement going

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Speaker 1: on into the future. Um but the new developments that

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Speaker 1: have happened. Um I. I did mention in the episodes

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Speaker 1: how much Enbridge was directly paying cops. That was something

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Speaker 1: we already knew. What was happening. But there was an

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Speaker 1: article by the Guardian that really gave a lot of

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Speaker 1: new information around how much police involvement there is with

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Speaker 1: like with Enbridge, Like they are actually coordinating a lot.

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Speaker 1: So overall, uh, Enbridge has reimbursed US police almost two

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Speaker 1: and a half million dollars for arresting and surveying protesters. UM,

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Speaker 1: also paying for like food, lodging gas. So like's they're

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Speaker 1: not just not not not just paying wages, they're paying

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Speaker 1: like for extra stuff as well. So at least at

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Speaker 1: least two and a half million dollars that's been paid

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Speaker 1: from the Canadian oil company um, you know, including that

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Speaker 1: includes officer officer training, UH, police patrol routes, surveillance, all

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. UM. The one one interesting thing

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Speaker 1: that was noted in the article is that the company

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Speaker 1: at Enbridge meets daily with police officers to discuss intelligence

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Speaker 1: gathering and patrols um. And when and when Enbridge wants

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Speaker 1: protesters removed, it directly calls or sends letters to police.

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Speaker 1: So they they actually like coordinate when to actually get

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Speaker 1: police involved during protests, and they have at least daily

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Speaker 1: information meetings. The one other interesting thing besides just directly

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Speaker 1: paying them for food for you know, a training equipment,

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Speaker 1: and the coordination between en Bridge and people being on

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Speaker 1: the ground is um how much that the Enbridge paid

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Speaker 1: for uh, like proactive safety patrols and specific like specific

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Speaker 1: officer surveillance following alleged activists like home. So they would

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Speaker 1: like trail specific cars for a long time and try

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Speaker 1: to like do like in person surveillance on specific people

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Speaker 1: they thought were activists. And all of this time was

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Speaker 1: paid for by Enbridge and was being coordinated with Enbridge.

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Speaker 1: So it's not just you know, paying for training, it's

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Speaker 1: not just for paying for equipment. It's specific surveillance of

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Speaker 1: certain people. And that is I don't know, that's something

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Speaker 1: that we weren't We did not really know the depths

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Speaker 1: of that for sure, but it's pretty it's pretty messed up.

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Speaker 1: I know. We we suspected some of this coordination before,

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Speaker 1: Like when we talked about police showing up to the

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Speaker 1: Stop Line three camp and blocking off access to the road. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this was at the same day that drilling under the

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Speaker 1: river was just being finished, and we so we suspected like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's like Embridge obviously talking with police to prevent people

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Speaker 1: from leaving so that they can they can finish up

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Speaker 1: this specific drilling project that was that was pretty obvious

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Speaker 1: to us at the scene. Um, and now we have,

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Speaker 1: you know, extra confirmation that, yeah, they do like meet

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Speaker 1: daily to coordinate these types of things. Um. So it's

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Speaker 1: good to have that extra confirmation of the stuff we

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Speaker 1: already like suspected and stuff we already kind of like

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Speaker 1: put together through experience. But now we have like, you know,

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Speaker 1: court documents and records showing the extent of the coordination.

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Speaker 1: All right, well we'll talk about terrorism, but you know

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Speaker 1: who else is a terrorist? Oh boy? The products and

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Speaker 1: services that support this podcast are all right in a

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Speaker 1: good way, you know, uh like um, you know, like

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Speaker 1: uh like uh kind of alright, well, it's it's complicated,

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Speaker 1: all right. Do ads just run ads stuff? Oh yeah?

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Speaker 1: So if it will probably be funnier if you bleep

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Speaker 1: out the name of the terrorist organization. This is how

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Speaker 1: we get This is how we pick up from the

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Speaker 1: ad brancast. Are you saying that? So? Um? Garrison, We

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Speaker 1: got some some critiques that came in to the old

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Speaker 1: news line, by which I mean people deemed me on Reddit,

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Speaker 1: which yeah, I never respond, Um, I almost never respond,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing against people. I just don't like being communicated with. Um.

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Speaker 1: But too many, too many people ask me to send

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Speaker 1: messages to you and like yeah, you're not my secretary's

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the last three years of my life.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, anyway, yeah, I mean, but that's funny, Sophie. Ah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, there were people who were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but Earth First

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Speaker 1: has a problematic history with like eco fascism and that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Um, just like that too. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things. They definitely are an

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Speaker 1: organization that has said things in the past that I

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Speaker 1: don't agree with. There's been specific people who do organizing

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Speaker 1: with them that don't have great beliefs specifically around like

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of like in the old green

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Speaker 1: movements has been you know, a lot of like transphobia,

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Speaker 1: some like racism. Um, It's it's not because they're the

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Speaker 1: green movements. Like all left spaces deal with versions and

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Speaker 1: there of variety stuff, you know, not like respecting like

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Speaker 1: indigenous people. Um, you know that that's been that's been

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Speaker 1: a thing. Um. But the specific term eco fascism, I

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Speaker 1: believe is incorrect, um, because they don't advocate for the

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Speaker 1: genocide of a specific group, UM. And they don't have

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Speaker 1: like far right populist policies. So like, you can have

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Speaker 1: bad opinions and bad ideas and you can actually be

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Speaker 1: a racist without actually being fascist, especially eco fascist. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like people throw that word around a

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Speaker 1: lot and they don't actually know what it means. UM.

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Speaker 1: But what were you specifically referring to, Robert Um. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to find the message here. But because I got

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Speaker 1: a message saying that Earth First is bad because they're

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Speaker 1: anti natalists, that means they're fascist, which isn't It isn't

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Speaker 1: really got that yeah, which isn't. Actually like, I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to disagree with that actause I don't think anti

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Speaker 1: natalism quits fascism, especially anti natalism. For like, an anti

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Speaker 1: natalism is basically saying, don't don't make people. Maybe we

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Speaker 1: should maybe we should stop having more kids right now

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Speaker 1: because we have a lot of problems to deal with

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Speaker 1: and maybe we shouldn't be having like, you know, three kids,

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Speaker 1: which is not it's not a take. I'm not an

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Speaker 1: anti natalist. I don't actually disagree with that take though,

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Speaker 1: But I think it's more in the line of, like,

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Speaker 1: the most fundamental of all human desires for the majority

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Speaker 1: of the population is to make more people, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of why I like anti natalism, because it has

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Speaker 1: that thing that's opposite to one of a lot of

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Speaker 1: humans natural reaction, and like, no one's forcing anti natalists

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Speaker 1: don't want to force you to be anti natalist. Bring

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Speaker 1: up this as an idea, Yeah, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a valuable idea to discuss. And I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: I don't think you're I don't think you're embracing like

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Speaker 1: the massacre of human beings or genesis by saying like,

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Speaker 1: I think it'd be best if we didn't make anymore.

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Speaker 1: I'm not planning an arguable point, I'm not planning to

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Speaker 1: have any kids because I don't see why it wou

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Speaker 1: especially when there's so many like children that can be

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Speaker 1: a doctor Garrison, we talked about you having kids so

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Speaker 1: we could experiment with making them blue. This is a

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Speaker 1: separate conversation that we're not talking about involving We are

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Speaker 1: not talking about this on the plot. We'll just include

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Speaker 1: that tantalizing hint. I also just think in general, when

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Speaker 1: we talk about a group that's had a long history

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Speaker 1: and a specific thing they're doing in the present. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this has happened in another situation where people like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, they did this or some one of them

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Speaker 1: said this. And there's a couple of things I feel

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Speaker 1: about that. For one thing, it's it's like it's entirely

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Speaker 1: possible that the people doing the thing in the present

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Speaker 1: day have nothing to do with the people twenty years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like most of the people there were First Gathering Gathering

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Speaker 1: were like in their twenties and around my age, Like

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Speaker 1: they weren't in the they weren't in Earth for night.

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Speaker 1: Like that's not like, so I feel like silly about

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Speaker 1: kind of making them be held accountable for something somebody

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Speaker 1: else said under a similar maner decades ago. And on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, I talked about how like people on their

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Speaker 1: Earth First Earth First Gathering like talked about this stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. People talked about Earth First like history and

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Speaker 1: how they haven't handled some issues very well. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot there was a massive effort for this gathering

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Speaker 1: to like um to like uplift and make sure everyone

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Speaker 1: focuses on Indigenous voices, Like they invited over multiple indigenous

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Speaker 1: groups to give talks on green resistance and like land

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Speaker 1: back like that. That was a big focus of like

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Speaker 1: making sure that this actually is something that has heard

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Speaker 1: because people know like this is, yeah, this is something important,

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Speaker 1: this is something that actually should be done, and there

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Speaker 1: are I think in general, when we talk about like

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Speaker 1: holding organizations and individuals accountable for their past, um, what

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Speaker 1: matters is like a mix of what they did and

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Speaker 1: what they're doing. So obviously, if Earth First had been

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Speaker 1: saying twenty years ago, we need to wipe out all

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Speaker 1: the Jews, I would be like I wouldn't care what

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Speaker 1: they were saying now, you know, it would be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't really come back from that. If you want

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Speaker 1: to do a completely different thing, it needs to be

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Speaker 1: a new organization. Don't. But they weren't. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that where I'm just making an example, but like,

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Speaker 1: as a rule, I think we should embrace the fact

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Speaker 1: that organizations and people can change throughout time and be

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Speaker 1: better than they were in the past, um and and

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Speaker 1: learn from mistakes and flaws. And I feel pretty unwilling

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Speaker 1: to condemn individuals or organizations for the mistakes of their past,

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Speaker 1: although that is dependent upon the kind of mistake and

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Speaker 1: the harm that it cost. Yeah, and like and how

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Speaker 1: they address it in the futures, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: these Yeah, because like it wasn't like first as an

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Speaker 1: overall organization of specific people they were affiliated with, like

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Speaker 1: you know, specifically UM like um Edward Abbey has said

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Speaker 1: some not great things around different different different social issues,

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Speaker 1: and his books were extremely influential on the beginning of

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Speaker 1: green resistance. But that's something people talk about now, Like

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Speaker 1: that's something that is like discussed and debated. Um. And

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Speaker 1: he was and he was like even in the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, he was like kicked out of our first

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Speaker 1: gatherings for kind of being a loser, like for for

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Speaker 1: having these bad views. Were like, yeah, we probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have you here anymore. Leave go away. It's like that

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Speaker 1: was something that was even talked about back like back

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Speaker 1: then as well. That is that isn't just a modern thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think in general, Number there's a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: Number One, whenever we talk about like an organization in

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Speaker 1: a specific context they're doing this, that doesn't mean we're

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Speaker 1: embracing everything they've done. And number two, whenever we talk

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Speaker 1: about the history of of of of a movement or

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Speaker 1: a group. I hope nobody ever takes that as like,

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Speaker 1: here is the authoritative stance on the history of this thing,

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Speaker 1: Like it's when we talked about the Black Panthers. There's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff we left out that's very important.

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Speaker 1: Um My hope with those episodes, and I hope with

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Speaker 1: anything we do, is that it like inspires people to

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Speaker 1: want to learn more and read more, and we're giving

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Speaker 1: them a basis of understanding that they can use to

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Speaker 1: expand their knowledge on an important topic. So please, we

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Speaker 1: are we are. There's like one thing, uh collectively that

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Speaker 1: that Garrison and I have any kind of expertise on,

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Speaker 1: and uh, outside of that, you should not take anything

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Speaker 1: we say as like, here's the comprehensive history of of

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Speaker 1: this because it's I I understand one thing, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's how the internet makes people shitty. Yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: um yeah, I mean that that was something that this

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Speaker 1: whole thing was. Something I thought about when writing these

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Speaker 1: episodes is how much to include of this stuff. And

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Speaker 1: I did not feel like it was super important to

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Speaker 1: discuss this stuff because it wasn't relevant to the topic

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Speaker 1: of stop line think such relevant to the topic of

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Speaker 1: like the current ongoing green resistance. If we want to

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Speaker 1: do like a history of green activism, then yes, this

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Speaker 1: is something that that would be that. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think like at some point we probably should do absolutely

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Speaker 1: about just like Mirror and like all of that ship.

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Speaker 1: But like that, there's a kind of stuff we want

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Speaker 1: to talk about that we haven't yet because it's a

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Speaker 1: daily show and my God, give us some fucking time.

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Speaker 1: People speaking of Edward Abbey, you know what, huh Cells

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00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: Quality monkey wrenches. Okay, alright, that's fine. The maybe one

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00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: of our sponsors, I hope, so Ace Hardware, it's hardware

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00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: bas hardware sponsoring us. They do sell You can get

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00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: some good monkey wrenches from Ace Hardware Quality for fixing

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00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 1: your faucet, for fixing your faucet. So go get wrench

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00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: pilled and then listen to the rest of the show.

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Speaker 1: Well we're back. We just had a good discussion about

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about, and we realized that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't after the ad break, so here we are. Um

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Speaker 1: In in early September, we had an episodes about both

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00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: California's climate and the ongoing recall election against Gavin Newsom.

430
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,959
Speaker 1: So a few days after our episodes dropped to think

431
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: like the day the day of the second one dropped

432
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: was was election day? Um we we we got the

433
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: results in faster than what I was expecting. Um and

434
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: Newsome did handily beat lay very Elder with like so

435
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: people people voted sixty no and like yes, so he

436
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: Knewsome did a decent job and pushing off Elder. Um.

437
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: So this, this, this whole recall processed costed California taxpayers

438
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy six million dollars. It's not like

439
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: we needed the money for anything else. Garrison. Come on, yeah,

440
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: so you know a few takeaways. We're going to spend

441
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: it oners literally anything else. Water giving California needs water

442
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: and firefighters. Garrison coming giving houses to people who need houses.

443
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um yeah, so takeaways from this, Uh,

444
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the recall process still should absolutely be invented. Yeah, it

445
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't require should require more than twelve signatures of the

446
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: last voter turnout. Um and the government should be requiring

447
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: to get to if you're if you're gonna be elected

448
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: in the government, you should be red to get a

449
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: majority of votes. Um. Not not not just a plurality

450
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: of a specific you know, sect, So there's a whole

451
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: we we we talked about the specific reasons why it

452
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: was bad in those episodes. Those are still those are

453
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: still like, those are still valid, those are still relevant

454
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 1: because there's still the same issues. Yeah, and none of

455
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: the fact that this turned out well had anything to

456
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: do with the Democratic Party who very nearly bungled it

457
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: and it and it doesn't it doesn't really impact. It

458
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: doesn't impact, you know, the California's climate issues so much.

459
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: And like just because new Sims in office doesn't mean

460
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: they're going to get much better. You know, there's still

461
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: things that it needs to be pushed on to to

462
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, make the climate a little bit more habitable.

463
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: In the meantime, it it means that we will continue

464
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: stumbling towards a cliff rather than speak sprinting. So generally

465
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: what voting for Democrats means, I will say, it's interesting

466
00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: to me that it doesn't seem like you can get

467
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: the vote was rigged thing to work unless the election

468
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: is like kind of this is the next thing I

469
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: was going to talk about. Um, Yeah, because because like

470
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: in the week before the election, uh, the Fox News

471
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: Republican Party and Larry Elder and even Trump, we're really

472
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: starting to ramp up this idea that if Elder loses,

473
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: that means the election was rigged. Uh. This was like

474
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: they were really pushing this hard and you know, spreading it,

475
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: like they were giving links to a website like before

476
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: he lost, even be like, if you know, when I lose,

477
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: use this website. I was like, Okay, that's okay, that's weird. Um.

478
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: But on the night of the election, Elder seems to

479
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: kind of claim climb down from the inflammatory like rhetoric

480
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: around the election. In his concession speech, he told supporters,

481
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: let's be gracious and defeat um. So he once the

482
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: actual results were in, he really climbed that down. So

483
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: we can read into that. The other thing I want

484
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: us to read into here is that could this could

485
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: this rhetoric around if we lose that means it was rigged?

486
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: Could that disenfranchise republic Can voters from even showing up

487
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 1: if they believe that all elections will be stolen from them?

488
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: Will that being that they'll be less Republican turn out

489
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: if there's just if they think that it doesn't matter.

490
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: So that's the other side of things, Like I'm not

491
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: sure if if if the other side effects that this,

492
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: that this rhetoric could have. Yeah, there's an interesting So

493
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: during during the last election like national election cycle, there

494
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 1: was a bunch of me to use people who weren't

495
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: voting in Florida, And I thought it was really interesting

496
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: because there were there were several people they talked to

497
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, I don't vote because last time

498
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: I voted was two thousands and they stole the election,

499
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: which which literally which which yeah, And you know i'd

500
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: say that, yeah, Like, I think it is slightly different

501
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: when like two thousands, when the actually like like literally

502
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: but there was there was the bricks like there there

503
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: there Roger Stone, Yeah, Roger Stone led a riot to

504
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: stop like the votes from being counted, like whatever, weird Bush.

505
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: I think people people got like like a bunch of

506
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: people with like vaguely black names got like their aims

507
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: struck off the like the voting roles. Like there was

508
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 1: a lot of yeah, but yeah, and and I don't

509
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if it'll if it if the effect

510
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: can work that strongly when it's like completely bullshit, I

511
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: think it's Yeah, I don't know, It's it's hard to

512
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: say because it's it's it's unclear whether the voter turnout

513
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: on the because, like you know, there were times where

514
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: they were pulling like fifty fifty between between between Newsom

515
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: and Elder, and it's unclear. I think definitely the big

516
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: advertising push that corporate donors gave to Newsom in the

517
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: month before the election did help get Democratic voter turnout,

518
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, like people voting for news getting people scared

519
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: about fucking is the governor that not was not ineffective,

520
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: that that very much works. That did increase turn out there,

521
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: But I don't know because like with the whole election

522
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: being stolen rhetoric that can both increase Republican voter turnout

523
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: and then there's also the side effect now where maybe

524
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: it could decrease it because they're just disenfranchised about this concept.

525
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: But this is kind of just speculation at this point.

526
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: I don't have actual data backing up this claim right now.

527
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: This is just something that I thought about while running

528
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: this right up, I'm like, huh, I wonder if this

529
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: could be a contributing factor in the future. People really

530
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: I feel like they're always gonna lose. Maybe they just

531
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: not not even are gonna bother um. But it's hard

532
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: to say. It's like, you know, the main reason why

533
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: Elder lost wasn't due to newsom strength. That was because

534
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: Elder is like, it's completely like he it was like

535
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: it was the most yeah, well like wildly unqualified and

536
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: like one of the more extreme candidates like running. And yes,

537
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: he did get a lot of support among Republicans, but

538
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: among moderates and people you know, left of center in

539
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: terms of like an American spectrum. Uh, they're like, yeah, no,

540
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a disaster if he if he

541
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: gets elected. And that's the main reason why he didn't. Um,

542
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: it's not due to Newsom being great. But I mean

543
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: Sophie did mention a few things that Newsom has done

544
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: since then. Um, so we do do do do you

545
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: want to say the specific details just so I don't

546
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: have to look so if he's famously a big Newsome fan,

547
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, not come on. Uh so not to give

548
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: news some credit because this is like an obvious right

549
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: thing to do situation. But um. At the beginning of October,

550
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: the Senate Bill seven was signed into law. It was

551
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: an unanimous vote and Newsom signed off on it to

552
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: give back Bruce's Beach, which was owned by a black family,

553
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: Willa and Charles Bruce back in their land was illegally

554
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: taken away from them. It's a beach front plot in

555
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach, and I signed into LATA give it back. Yeah,

556
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: more of that should be done. I mean that is

557
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: kind of the basis of like, you know, that is

558
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: one side of land back, is just giving land back

559
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: to people who used to have it. Yeah, of course

560
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: this is this isn't sally tied to like indigenous stuff.

561
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: But you know, I've seen people make that same comparison

562
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: for Yeah, we should just be doing this more in

563
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: general to a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah, that's I'm

564
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: glad that that was done. It's also now illegal to

565
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: remove a condom without consett in California, which is wait,

566
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: what You're going to have to change a lot of

567
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: things about how you have sex with Californians. Yeah, during intercourse,

568
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: that's the it's the first state to do that, first

569
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: of all. Huh. Yeah, and it's wild because under any

570
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: reasonable definition, that's rape. Yeah, yeah, it's just ra Yeah,

571
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: it's absolutely rape. California also now requires menstal products in

572
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: public schools, so that's bare minimum and that is good.

573
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that it happened. Yeah, And I want

574
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: to be clear here, I'm not giving you some credit

575
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: for this, but if he had lost the recallection, none

576
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: of this would be happening. No, it's nice that he

577
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of this was him kind of providing

578
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: a sop to the people who lined up to stop

579
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: the recall. And those are good things that were done. Yeah,

580
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: And I think I think that's sort of an important

581
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: thing to understand about when politicians occasionally do good things.

582
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: It's like they don't do good things because they want

583
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: to do them. They they they do things that benefit

584
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: from you because they're either in some way scared of you,

585
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: or it's because they need to buy they buy you off,

586
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: and and that that is, you know, that is that

587
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: is a legitimate way that good things happen. But I've

588
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: got a couple other Uh, there's been a lot signed

589
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: in recently, So I got a couple of other ones

590
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: that I that I think are relevant to our show.

591
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: California will not streamline extend assisted death law. So that's

592
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: that's good. That reduces the time until terminal patients can

593
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: choose to be given fatal drugs, So good. Starting January one,

594
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: the waiting period required time a patient makes separate oral

595
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: request for medication were dropped to forty hours, down from

596
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: the current minimum fifteen days. That is that is good,

597
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: pretty rad Yeah, I mean there's just there's there's a

598
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see if it's it's hard, a lot,

599
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot, it's it's hard, it's hard to be

600
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: like worse than Larry Elder. Yeah, that's this one definitely

601
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: would not get through for No, California California Acts a

602
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: lot of strip badges from bad officers, like very vaguely written,

603
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: is very vague. But yeah, well we'll see what happens

604
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: to like, No, none of that stuff would have happened

605
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: under a thing I am surprised at, Like I'm surprised

606
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: that some of those things actually got through because I'm

607
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that Democratic politicians would actually vote for those

608
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: things we put office. That's why I was like basically

609
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: the condom, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I was not expecting

610
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: that to go through some science legislation to extend to

611
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: go cocktails. Wait, all right, that's sure, Okay, more where

612
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 1: am I to go cocktail heads? Sorry? Alright, so at

613
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: least Larry Al there's not in office. There's till a

614
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: lot of climate issues, and maybe this rhetoric around stealing

615
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: the elections not gonna work every single time they do it. Um,

616
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: that's kind of the main that's the main things that

617
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: I was going to talk about, and it is it is.

618
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that people are talking

619
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: about in a lot of the spaces I generally agree

620
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: with is like the foolishness of voting is harm reduction.

621
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of if you want to

622
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: believe that it isn't, there's been a lot of information

623
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: coming up from the Biden administration that will support that belief. Um.

624
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: But what we're seeing right now in California is that

625
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: can be like the these are not none of this

626
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: is going to fundamentally change the major problems that are

627
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: confronting us. But but a bunch of those things are

628
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: going to Like life's going to be easier for some

629
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: little girls whose families don't have much money. You know,

630
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: life got easier for that one family who got their

631
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: land back. Um. You know, potentially it's going to be

632
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: easier to get bad police officer, or to get particularly

633
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: bad police officers off the Street, and that's not that's

634
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: not nothing like when we say voting can be and

635
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it usually is, but when we

636
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: it can reduce harm, that's what it means. It means

637
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: that like, oh, some bad things that that would be

638
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: worse are not as bad because of this. Not that

639
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: everything is better. A lot of stuff will be the

640
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 1: same and is the same in California, Like ecologically, nothing

641
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: sundically fundamentally changed, but some ship's a little easier for

642
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: certain groups of people as a result of some stuff.

643
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: And specific specifically, I think the getting getting more like

644
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: contraceptive products menstrual products inside public schools is one of

645
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: the literally the best things we can do, like like

646
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: for the whole country. It is like something that if

647
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,919
Speaker 1: that was required in every public school, that would make

648
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: so many people's lives better. That ridiculous degree significantly reduces

649
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: harm in a specific way. And I think that just

650
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,959
Speaker 1: because like, yeah, I mean, it's not going to stop

651
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: us all from burning up, um, but that doesn't mean

652
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: it's not worthwhile. Yeah. So those those are the three

653
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: stories that I wanted to give some updates for, um

654
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: because I know, you know, there were changes happened you know,

655
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: very soon after posting those episodes. UM, I still think

656
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: the California ones are worth listening to because they do

657
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: lay out a lot of stuff around around California's climate,

658
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: um and the specific weird stuff that it has with

659
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: its specific weird things that has with its election process. UM.

660
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: I think the line three episodes are going to be

661
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: pretty good to go back to as well. UM, And

662
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: then uh, I at the specific Cop City thing in Atlanta,

663
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: that is the stuff that I am. It's gonna be

664
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: the most like ongoing thing stills because that's going to

665
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: be an ongoing project. So I'm sure we'll come back

666
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: to the Cops City at different points throughout the next

667
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: few months. So that that that that that's the updates. UM.

668
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: Any any any closing notes from either Christopher, Robert or Sophie, Yeah,

669
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: just just I do well excuse me, Okay, sorry Sophie, Sorry,

670
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: just I just just remind him we've said this earlier

671
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: in the episode that like we're just giving you brief

672
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: brief sniff. It's about this stuff. There's a lot there's

673
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: a lot of really good articles online that go go

674
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: deep into these things, and we'll post our sources on

675
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: the website. Yep, yeah, yeah we we we we do.

676
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: We do a good job, I think most of the time. Yes, yes,

677
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: but we're great. Yeah, we're we're the only heroes, that's

678
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: fair to say. Absolutely, But do do not have a

679
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 1: podcast be the only source of information? Absolutely not. Don't

680
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: listen to if you think more of a of a

681
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: left perspective that is that that goes in some directions,

682
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: we don't. It's going down is a lovely place to

683
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: check out. Margaret Killjoy's um uh live like the World

684
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: is Dying. St Andrew's YouTube channel. Um he does some

685
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: some really incredible stuff. Um, you know, there's all sorts

686
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: of good people out there. And then also like history

687
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: books more than anything like history books straight books for

688
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: the thing that Yeah, if you want to read more

689
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: about the new sub notable laws signed recently, the k

690
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: c r A and Sacramento did a did a really

691
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: good breakdown article. Oh sorry, so it's okay. And and

692
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: as a note, we will be doing more episodes like

693
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: this over time, as like stories that we cover have

694
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: additional things happened to them. This is like we don't

695
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: want to just be like dropping a story and then

696
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: ignoring whatever happens next. Um. Sometimes they don't mean following

697
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: up with people that we're talking to on the ground,

698
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: but you know, we are trying to like keep you

699
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: updated on the things that we think are important, you know,

700
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: even when they end uh in a in a broadly

701
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: positive sense or whatever. And Uh, lastly, what was the

702
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: name of that brisket place in Atlantic, because I'm sure

703
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: people are gonna ask about it. Oh, I don't remember.

704
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: It was some shitty little place in the middle of

705
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: South Atlanta. Um, and like a fucking strip mall that

706
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: was really helpful. I don't remember. So if it was

707
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: like eleven years ago, what do you I don't remember,

708
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: the best brisket you've ever had? And it was but

709
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: the best. Like if you know anything about good barbecue,

710
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: the best barbecue you ever have is either cooked by

711
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: like your uncle or is cooked in some shitty little

712
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: place with a turn that wouldn't pass a code inspection.

713
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 1: That is true that the more the more codes it violates,

714
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: the better the bisket. Um. Anyway, if you see the

715
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: chef actively ship on the grill, that means just going

716
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: to be incredible. Jesus Christ, Twitter and Instagram, what happened here?

717
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: Poticles media, subscribe to the feed and leave a five

718
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: star of you. That's it. Don't don't don't shoot on

719
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: your brisket, grill on everything. Alright, life, Here's to the

720
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: great American settlers. The millions of you has settled for

721
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: unsatisfying jobs because they paid the bills, and uh, you

722
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: just kind of fell into it, and you know, it's

723
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: like totally fine, just another few decades or so and

724
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: then you can enjoy yourself. Of course, there is something

725
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: else you could do. If you've got something to say.

726
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: You could, I don't know, start up podcast with Spreaker

727
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: from my heart and unleash your creative freedom and spend

728
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: all day researching and talking about stuff you love and

729
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: maybe even earn enough money to one day tell your

730
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: irritating boss as you quit and walk off into the sunset, Hey,

731
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: I'm no settler, I'm an explorer. Spreaker dot com. That's

732
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 1: spr e a K e er hustle on over today.

733
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: Raphie is the voice of some of the happiest songs

734
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: of our generation, Baby Little So, who is the man

735
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: behind Baby Bluga. Every human being wants to feel respected.

736
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 1: When we start with, all good things can grow from there.

737
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad and host of Finding Raffie,

738
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: a new podcast from my Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen

739
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app or wherever

740
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. This is Roxanne Gay, host of

741
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: The Roxanne Gay Agenda, the Bad Frominast podcast of Your Dreams. Now,

742
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: what is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, you might ask, Well,

743
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 1: It's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind

744
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: about what's on my mind, and that could be anything.

745
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: Every week, I will be in conversation with an interesting

746
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,919
Speaker 1: person who has something to say. We're going to talk

747
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: about feminism, race, writing in books, and art, food, pop culture,

748
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: and yes, politics. I started each show with a recommendation. Really,

749
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: I'm just going to share with you a movie or

750
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: a book, or maybe some new sick or a comedy set,

751
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: something that I really want you to be aware of

752
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary

753
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: original podcast, The Roxanay Agenda, The Bad Feminist Podcast of

754
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: Your Dreams, every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app,

755
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast Garrison, Is

756
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: that good? Is that? The show? No? Just keep going though? Okay, Well,

757
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: it could happen. Here is the show that A tonal

758
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: Noise is my introduction this week because I'm a hack

759
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: in a fraud. Who isn't a hack in a fraud?

760
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: Is is our guest this week. St Andrew. St Andrew,

761
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: you are a solar punk anarchist from Trinidad. UM. You

762
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: have a YouTube channel, UM where you talk about solar punk.

763
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: UM you talked about stuff like seed bombing. Yeah. I'm

764
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 1: just very excited to have you on the show because

765
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of YouTube channel. Thank you, glad

766
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: to be here, big fan of your work as well, Andrew.

767
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to start with why this why

768
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: solar punk is important? Because, UM, I think it's easy

769
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: for folks who just kind of skim it to see it.

770
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, it's an aesthetic. It's maybe an

771
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: art style or a fiction style. UM. Maybe something that's neat,

772
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: but not something that has like a lot of inherent

773
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: value to people trying to change the world. And obviously

774
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: you disagree with that. I disagree with it to UM.

775
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: A quote I keep coming back to again and again

776
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: is one from Werner Herzog in the nineteen seventies, and

777
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: it was something along the lines of I think that

778
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: without better myths, were destined to go the way of

779
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: the dinosaurs. Um. Actually, of I forget his name right now.

780
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: But there's this excellent, excellent book called The Truth About Stories,

781
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: and I think what it really emphasizes throughout the book

782
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: is the importance of stories on how stories impact how

783
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: we navigate the woot, which is why I sort of

784
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: embraced sua punk, you know, as a story that we

785
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: can work with green forward. Yeah, I think, Um, I

786
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: think it's incredibly important to have better stories, better myths

787
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: because for one thing, I think where the Left falls

788
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: down a lot is not having is accurately diagnosing the

789
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: problems without providing a better look at at the at

790
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: the future, you know. Um. And when the problems are

791
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: when the people who do kind of propose solutions, it's

792
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: often um not in a way people can feel. One

793
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: of the benefits that that that the right has, that

794
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: fascism has, is that they they're very good at providing

795
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: people with myths and providing people with kind of a

796
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: fictional look at at their idealized world that draws people in.

797
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: You know, you can laugh at the right. You know,

798
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: they have a lot of people that work on like

799
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: meta narratives and that's very, very core to their ideology. Um, So,

800
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: I guess where I'd like to start with you, Andrew,

801
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: because this is kind of the first time I think

802
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: we've really talked about solar punk on on this show,

803
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: even though from the beginning before any of these episodes dropped,

804
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: this was always a central part of our discussion about

805
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: what the show was was going to be. Um, would

806
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: you kind of provide an introduction to to what solar

807
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: punk is for our listeners? Sure? Sure, So I would

808
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 1: say that solar punk is the vision of the future

809
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: that places emphasis on the existing world and how we

810
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: get to that future from where we are now. So

811
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: it emphasizes the need for environmental sustainability, for self governance,

812
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: and for a toronomy and social justice. It emphasizes the

813
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: need for you know, human and ecocentric ends to really

814
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: be in sync, and it aims to really heal the

815
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 1: current rift between humanity and Nietzsche. It also recognizes, of course,

816
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: that there isn't this binary between climate change happens and

817
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: climate change doesn't happen. Rather, it understands that how we

818
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: navigate it, we uh have a variety of consequences and

819
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: some of the positive, some of the negative, but it's

820
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: up to us to really shape that. Yeah, and it's UM.

821
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: I want to drill into a couple of facets of that.

822
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: But I want to quickly plug one of your YouTube

823
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: videos for folks who kind of want a more involved

824
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: um explanation and background. You have a video called what

825
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: is solar Punk on your channel Saint Andrewism like Andrew

826
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: I s m UM that I think is a fantastic

827
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: introduction not just to like the aesthetics of solar punk,

828
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: but some of the practical some of the practical kind

829
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: of expressions of it. And and two of the ones

830
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 1: you list is like examples of here's here's what this

831
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: is is like actual praxis, you know, and not just

832
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: an aesthetic is seed bombing um. And then you talk

833
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: about this this very interesting kind of like terra Cotta

834
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: air conditioning, which I think is I think it's neat

835
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: because it's it's one of the problems that I think

836
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: with kind of some versions of of of particularly kind

837
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: of on the more liberal end of of of solar

838
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: punk imagining is just sort of like ways of replacing um,

839
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: ways of gaining the same kind of consumptive benefits that exist,

840
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: I guess not even not even like greenwashing, right washing, greenwashing,

841
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: Like here, let's get the same consumptive benefits. We get scrapers, yes, skyscrapers,

842
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: the same consumerism, same level of you know, destructive, extractive practices.

843
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: But we have some flowers and some trees. So yeah,

844
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: and that's not enough. But at the same time, there

845
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: are things that aren't. Like air conditioning is contributes massively

846
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: to climate change. It's also not a luxury. Like if

847
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: you live in a place where it's a hundred and

848
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: twenty degrees a lot of the summer, that's not a luxury. Yeah,

849
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 1: this is going from someone in a tropical country. Yeah,

850
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: definitely a necessity. Yeah, So I wonder if you could

851
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: talk about kind of those two, I mean, or if

852
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: you have different ones you'd like to pick, but just

853
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: kind of what you see is sort of the practice

854
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: expressions of solar punk, sort of beyond the aesthetic, although

855
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: we're going to drill into the aesthetics some too, because

856
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: I also think that's important. Right, So, I think some

857
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: of my favorite manifestations of the punk in a practical context,

858
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: things like um gorilla gardening, really gardening is really the

859
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: biggest one because it's one that someone could literally pick

860
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: up and do today or tomorrow, you know, as soon

861
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: as they hear about it, doing about it. Just get

862
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: some clay, get some seeds, you know, and put those

863
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: things together, and as you're walking home or walk into

864
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: the store, just toss them wherever there some free dud um.

865
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: So that's a fun one. There's also, of course things

866
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: like litten one involved, like community gardening and particularly forest gardening,

867
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: because that will provide a level of food autonomy and

868
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: agency for people who have been healing it for a

869
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: long time from the process of food production. UM. They're

870
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: also practices like compassing or corpach ng and it's like

871
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: a way to produce lumber without chopping down a whole

872
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: set of trees, so you are able to get the

873
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: wood from the trees, but the tree remains alive. UM.

874
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: There's also things like, of course solar powered technology, whether

875
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: it be algae based UM windows that you know, extract

876
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 1: energy from the sun, or solar sales or solar ovens

877
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: uh or like the terra Cotta their condition in which,

878
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: by the way I learned recently contrary work in a

879
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: human environment. Yeah, but yeah, there are a lot of

880
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: difference opportunities there also there are things like you know,

881
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: tool shares and make up spaces and seed libraries, all

882
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: different ways to sort of bring it into fruition that is. Yeah,

883
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: and I uh, I think a lot of that's really valuable. UM.

884
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: I'm interested in in parts sort of your your attitude

885
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: on UM what. Uh let me think about how the

886
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: phrase this, UM, what do you think are kind of

887
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 1: the things as we talk about sort of the things

888
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: that can be at least potentially replaced UM with with

889
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: less extract of less consumptive methods. Is sort of an

890
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: example of solar punk practice is replacing those things. There's

891
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: also things that we're not going to be able to

892
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: have if we actually want to live in a more

893
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: sustainable UM future that that doesn't contribute to some of

894
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: the nightmares that we're all going to be increasingly facing.

895
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: UM you're you know, And again I think it's it's

896
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: telling that so much of kind of the future fantasies

897
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: of that are written by people who come from you know,

898
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: my part of the world. The United States focus on

899
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: like kind of post scarcity methods of of guaranteeing the

900
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: continuation of consumption just through in some cases like fantastic

901
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 1: methods um you know, magical three D printers and the like. Um.

902
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: You come from a very different part of the world,

903
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: very different perspective, what do you see as the things

904
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: that like we're going to have to give up Coming

905
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: from a country that is actually reliant on oil and

906
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: natural gas production, we have to get rid of cause

907
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: we definitely absolutely have to get rid of cause um

908
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: free to ships as well, and really the whole way

909
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: that you know, global supply chains are structured right now.

910
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: Not to say that they wouldn't be any sort of

911
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: global um sharing of resources in the future, but the

912
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: way that it's happening right now, it can't continue to

913
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: go on. We can't continue to structure our cities, in

914
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: our lives around cause you know, and other methods of

915
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: gascuselin transportation because we're literally going to run out. And

916
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: we've known this for a long time, but it's nearing.

917
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: The day is nearing Clusia and cluso, and yeah, we

918
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: we have to find a way to do without it. Yeah,

919
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: and it's it's I think tell like, there's a couple

920
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: of things that are important. One of them is you

921
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: can't just say we have to stop global trade because

922
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: in global travel, because the people have have sought and

923
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: done that for as long as there have been people

924
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: in one former another. It's it's a fundamentally human thing.

925
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: But there are aspects of it, like you know, expecting

926
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: that every kind of fruit and vegetable will be available

927
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: year round, which is certainly thing that we in the

928
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,439
Speaker 1: United States expect. Um. That doesn't that that's not part

929
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: of a realistic future. Um. And if it's part of

930
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: the future, then it's only going to be part of

931
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: the future for an ever shrinking chunk of the country.

932
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: And you can see that in sort of um or

933
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: of the of the West, and you can see that

934
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: in kind of um the like what we're dealing with

935
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: right now with like the supply line shortages and failures,

936
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: and like one of the I think the symbols of

937
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: how far we have to go in my country is

938
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: the degree to which people are freaking out by the

939
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: fact that Christmas presents might be late. Um. Let alone

940
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, you might not be able to buy coffee,

941
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: um um ever, or all the time, you know, you

942
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: might not be able to get tomatoes in December um

943
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: which UM. I think one benefits to grilla gattening. And

944
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: that's what's a mindset is as you learn to so

945
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: you also learn to reap. Right. So a lot of

946
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: people who get into grilled gardening aliso end up getting

947
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: into foraging, and they are absent stuff you could download

948
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: that allow you to, you know, learn how to identify

949
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: plants in your area. And we surprise the number of

950
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: plants in your area that are you know, useful for

951
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: teas or for salads or for whatever purposes that can

952
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: be used as replacements. I'm not sure if they could

953
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: replace coffee, but they could be beneficial, um in recognizing

954
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: how we have to live with our local ecosystems. Basically, yeah,

955
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: and a big you know, when you talk about living

956
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: learning how to live with our ecosystem stuff like planting

957
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: um forest gardens and the like or food forest, I

958
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: think is the term UM. I think something that has

959
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: to be discussed is the matter of indigenous sovereignty, especially

960
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: when we're talking about you know, it's not just you know,

961
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: North America, a lot of chunks of the globe Indigenous

962
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: people had spent you know, in some cases thousands of

963
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: generations setting forests up in order to sustainably produce food. Um.

964
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: And when when colonialism arrived, that was often just seen

965
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: as like, oh, this is this is these are wild

966
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: places for us to for us to extract or tear

967
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: down and replace with mono cultures, you know, single crops. Um.

968
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: And so a big part of actually building back that capacity,

969
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: the capacity of us to to survive off of the

970
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 1: food that can sustainably grow where we live is looking

971
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: back to those indigenous methods and and also um, you know,

972
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: giving back land in a lot of cases, um And yeah,

973
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: that's something you talk about in your videos that I

974
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: think is really important to um to to to to

975
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: explain to people. Yeah, I mean there's there's really is

976
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: no way to separate the violance and oppressive institution of

977
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: clunealism with the equosido Nietzsche of modern states. You know,

978
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: those two are deeply intertwined, deeply married together. And so

979
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: you can't fight climate change without addressing the issue of

980
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 1: severnty of indigenous serenity and land back. Yeah. It's um,

981
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I've been I've been up hunting on

982
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: mountain Hood with a friend who is who went to

983
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 1: school for like forestry management, And as we were driving

984
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: way to drive through a chunk of the reservation in

985
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: order to get to the BLM land where we're able

986
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: to hunt, and he pointed it out, and once he did,

987
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: it was immediately obvious just how different the land under

988
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: indigenous control looked from the land, you know, just feed

989
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: away that was being managed by the federal government in

990
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: terms of like how much better the forest management was,

991
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: how much how much smarter it was it was manage

992
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: in order to reduce the chances of like a ladder

993
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: fire that that actually kills you know, the trees and whatnot.

994
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 1: There's this whole thing blowing up on Twitter right now

995
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: where you've got a chunk of Marxists tour are trying

996
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: to frame land back as uh, just like shifting ownership

997
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: of resources, which I think is really missing the point.

998
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 1: But I find interesting about Twitter is that the exact

999
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: same discourses are repeated over and over and over again.

1000
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: So I remember this exact conversation happening around this time

1001
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: last year, around April last year, um earlier this year

1002
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: as well. It's just the same discourses get recycled over

1003
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: and over again, and it's reached a point for me

1004
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: when I realized that these people don't want to learn

1005
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: about land back or what it really means because they

1006
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: are invested in the structure as it exists and they

1007
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: don't want to have to interrogate that. So, Yeah, this

1008
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: will out to be an interesting thing I've known. Yeah,

1009
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: and it's UM, it's it's it's frustrating. UM. I guess

1010
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: that that acts as like a general uh description of

1011
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: Twitter discourse, but certainly does. Yeah. I think it's I

1012
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: think it's telling the degree to which people, even on

1013
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: the left treat it as a fantasy as opposed to

1014
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: doggedly pragmatic UM and and proven so like proven by

1015
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: like like you know, like you can read you in

1016
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: reports that will that will essentially say land back in

1017
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: the space of a five page you know, study on

1018
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: how indigenous land management functions a great deal better than

1019
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: UM than a lot of the stuff that's like centralized

1020
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: by the federal government, where we're like, our federal government

1021
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: is terrible at land management. UM. And it's part of

1022
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: the it's part of the problem. I think one of

1023
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: the things that that excites me about solar punk as

1024
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: an aesthetic and idea is getting back to this relationship

1025
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: with the land as opposed to talking about just preserving

1026
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: it um as talking about managing it. Because because none

1027
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: of our none of the land that people live on

1028
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: is like wild in the sense that people mean it

1029
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: as it's been cultivated. And that's that's the thing, right.

1030
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: The whole philosophy of you know, um land preservation as

1031
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: was taken up by the US government with the whole

1032
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: um you know, you can stop forest fires kind of

1033
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: thing ended up leading to more forest fires downline, because

1034
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: they we have a rule in the ecosystem not just

1035
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: there to stand back from a fire and to observe it.

1036
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: So we don't do our part to manage the underbrush

1037
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: and whatnots and clear away and exercise you know, controlled fires,

1038
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: but we end up in the situation we're in today,

1039
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, cultivation not just sterile preservation. Now. One of

1040
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: the things that you talk about well because because one

1041
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: of the more frustrating discourses this is not just a

1042
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: Twitter thing, this has been going on for years, is

1043
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: the discourse around GMO crops. And usually I would say,

1044
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: like the two most commonly heard sides are GMOs are

1045
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: bad because you know, monsanto cancer whatever, or GMOs are good.

1046
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: Um end end thought. Um. And the thing that you

1047
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: point out, which is I think the accurate take is GMOs.

1048
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: The preponderance of evidence says that, like, there's nothing inherently

1049
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: dangerous about genetically modified crops, but the way in which

1050
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: they're often used in order to create these massive mono

1051
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: cultures is really toxic. So there's a lot of promise

1052
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: um for GMOs in terms of keeping our our existence

1053
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: on this planet sustainable. But what's not sustainable is the

1054
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of industrialized agriculture where you have ten thousand acres

1055
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: of one thing which just doesn't happen in nature exactly exactly.

1056
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: And if you look at how genetic modification took at

1057
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: least at to you know, all advanced funds in genetic

1058
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: modification technology. UM, I'm not how many people are familiar

1059
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: with the dozens upon dozens, if not hundreds of varieties

1060
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: of just corn they were present in the America's prior

1061
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: to the colonization. A lot of those varieties were wiped

1062
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: out or were suppressed in fear of these mono cultures.

1063
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: But if we're able to cultivate the diversity of these

1064
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: crops and maybe bring some of them back through jestic modification,

1065
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: that would really help us with you know, food resilience

1066
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: in a world with an increasingly unpredictable climate. Yeah, yeah,

1067
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, I think you said it perfectly.

1068
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: I want to move back to kind of what I

1069
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: introduced the episode with, which is talking about the value

1070
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: of of fiction and myth making in a in a

1071
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: very pragmatic sense. I guess I'll start by saying, I

1072
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: think one of the clearest signs of the danger that

1073
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: we're in and how toxic our society has gotten. Um

1074
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: And I am speaking from a primarily US centric standpoint here,

1075
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's unique to the United States.

1076
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: Is the extent to which trust me um as as

1077
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: the saying is when the US sneeze, So anytime there's

1078
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: some phenomenon happening in the US, there are the coffee cuts. Yea.

1079
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: And I do think this is pretty global. I mean

1080
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: you see it in like South Korean films and all over.

1081
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna say, Yeah, the obsession with

1082
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: apocalypse and when we when we go to the future,

1083
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: it's always a dystopia. Um, there's a degree to which

1084
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: we've almost forgotten how to imagine utopia or even not

1085
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: just utopia, just a way of living that is an

1086
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,479
Speaker 1: improvement in a lot of ways of future that's better.

1087
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: We've forgotten to do both utopian fiction and any just

1088
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: kind of like positive fiction in a lot of ways,

1089
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's understandable because the world is kind of

1090
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: terrible right now in a lot of in a lot

1091
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: of ways. But there's also there's been utopian fiction inside

1092
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: other terrible worlds as well. I think just the modern

1093
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: interconnected media sphere has really rewarded this type of like

1094
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,919
Speaker 1: dystopian and collapse based apocalypse fiction. Yeah, and I'm sure

1095
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: that's that's worth interrogating why, but it is a problem

1096
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: that needs to be solved. Yeah, and it is, and

1097
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: and you're I think it's important. And it's not entirely

1098
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: based in how fucked up things are, because like when

1099
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: the first Star Trek came out, we were at like

1100
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: the height of the Cold War. Things were terrible. There

1101
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: was a lot of utopian fiction during World War Two.

1102
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: During World War two, UM, I will always be impressed

1103
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: by the fact that Gene Roddenberry saw it as incredibly

1104
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: important both to be like, okay, well in the future,

1105
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the Civil rights movement. In

1106
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: the future we will have overcome like racism, but not

1107
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: just that, but like I'm gonna I'm gonna stick a

1108
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: Russian on the bridge too, because nations are going to

1109
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: end as a concept and like this stuff won't matter. Um,

1110
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: And that just that kind of utopian fiction, at least

1111
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: at this at the scale of popularity that you know,

1112
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: Star Trek wasn't its time just isn't present anymore. And

1113
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: I that's tremendously worrying to me. And I see a

1114
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: lot of hope in in Solar Punk for that, um.

1115
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: And I guess for starters, I'm interested in in your

1116
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: thoughts on this, and you're interested in Andrew, what you

1117
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: think is like the pragmatic value of of of positive

1118
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: a fiction that that that imagines a better world. Yes,

1119
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: so I've done probably I think I've done like two

1120
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: videos on Soula Punk soufar um, two major videos on

1121
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: Sila Punk, as well as a smaller video two other

1122
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: smaller videos. Um. And what I've seen in the comments

1123
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: and in the general social media reaction again and again

1124
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 1: is sol the Punk saved my life. You know, Sola

1125
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: Punk has given me hoop. You know, I was slipping

1126
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: into the spare. But this video really gave me a

1127
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: jump start to try something new and to start a

1128
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: fresh and to pursue action as opposed toggest lying down

1129
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: and taking whatever comes next. And that that is it

1130
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: for me. You know, I think the fact that Sulla

1131
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: punk offers like an energizing vision. It's not just a vision,

1132
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: it's an energizing vision because in every step of the way,

1133
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: it shows what you can do. You know when you

1134
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: show it. When you look at sula punk art or um,

1135
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: you look at the small but growing genre of sulla

1136
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: punk literary media, or you know, you look at but

1137
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: there's don't have many silpunk video games right now, but

1138
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: hopefully there will be in the future. When you look

1139
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: at the various forms of silapunk media that are coming

1140
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: out and people's responses to them, you see that it's

1141
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: not like as all mentioning like Star Trek, where it's

1142
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 1: all this far our technology that we can only aspire

1143
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: to for now. You know, sol the punk is something

1144
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: that you can literally put in your backyard or your

1145
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: balcony or your home, or your school or your community.

1146
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: You know, you could put these things in place like

1147
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: from now, you know, and you can incorporate it into

1148
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: your politics as you know, as they are, and they

1149
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: could also help to push your politics forward, you know,

1150
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: because through solar punk, we can open up discussions about Okay,

1151
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: so how do we ensure that people live comfortably within

1152
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: the parameters of you know, the Earth's carrying capacity? You know,

1153
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: you open up a discussions about indigenous soevereignty. You can

1154
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: discussions about, um, the relationship between the Goloble North and

1155
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: the global South, and responsibility with regard to our response

1156
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: to climate change. Well, you're en up a lot of

1157
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: different discussions through the realm of sulla punk. It energizes people,

1158
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: as I said, and yeah, I think that is its

1159
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: pargmatic purpose. It doesn't stand alone, of course, but it

1160
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:21,919
Speaker 1: is a driving force. Yeah. Would you kind of give

1161
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: out a list of if people are you know, if

1162
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: this is someone's first introduction to the concept of solar punk,

1163
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: what is some reading you want to draw people towards.

1164
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: What are some fiction like I know you mentioned The

1165
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: Dispossessed by Laguin, right, um, which often gets cited. Um. Yeah,

1166
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm interested in kind of other other recommendations you might

1167
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: have for our listeners. Are that right? So? UM. I'm

1168
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: still getting into the genre myself, so I don't have

1169
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: too many UM recommendations. There are some UM decent short

1170
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: story collections UM like sun Vaults by a couple of

1171
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: different authors. There's also multi species Cities, so the punk

1172
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: urban futures UM. And the one I read most recently

1173
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: was Ecotopia, which is quite is much older than all

1174
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: the others. It's actually a book that was published in

1175
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: UM and not all aspects of its politics things I

1176
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: agree with, but I think for a first UM it

1177
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: was one of the really the first of its kind

1178
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: in that sort of equo utopian genre that really laid

1179
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: out what this society would look like. UM. The book

1180
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: is structured in a series of novel entries and notebook

1181
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: reports by a journalists from the United States who has

1182
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 1: gone to this country called Ecotopia, which is sort of

1183
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: where the Pacific Northwest States are, and he's basically breaking

1184
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: down He's going to different parts of the country and

1185
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: breaking down how they have lived and how they have

1186
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: decided structure their lives. UM. And even though not every

1187
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: aspect of it is one that I would want to

1188
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: see implemented, I still think that it really sparks the

1189
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: imagination really gets you thinking, well, maybe I wouldn't do

1190
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: it this week, but how else could this be done?

1191
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: And I think the capacity for stupunk stories suggest generate

1192
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: that thought and generate one's imagination is very useful in

1193
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: a world where we don't really get to use our

1194
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: imagination as much, not really since childhood, you know. And um, yeah,

1195
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: I I think it's often understated the degree to which

1196
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: using your imagination is a vitally necessary part of actual

1197
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: radical politics. Um. And I think there's a lot of

1198
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 1: people who consider themselves radicals, you know, some of these

1199
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: some of these not to you know, slam every Marxist

1200
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: Leninist on the planet, but certainly some of the ones

1201
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: who were coming up with these bad faith criticisms of

1202
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 1: land back. It's like, you're not a radical, You're a

1203
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 1: conservative who wants to go back to a different kind

1204
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: of problematic thing. Um. It's more the fact that the

1205
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: Soviet Union poisoned like the largest body of water in Europe.

1206
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: You know, all the different things that the Soviet Union

1207
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,440
Speaker 1: did that were horrible for the environment and extractive. And

1208
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: it's interesting that, you know, are these people who call

1209
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:44,560
Speaker 1: themselves radicals, but the very foost um. Encounter with a

1210
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: radical idea, the foost instinct is to shut down. The

1211
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 1: whost instinct is to just pushed back against it. Whereas

1212
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: not to my own corner or anything. But you know,

1213
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: when I see an idea that I haven't encountered before

1214
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: that may seem strange to me, that challenges my precontinutions,

1215
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: my first reaction is not to shout about how this

1216
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,719
Speaker 1: goes against everything then, and said, you know, my first

1217
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: reaction is to investigate it and to open space for

1218
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 1: it in my mind, to really, you know, tune it

1219
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: around and imagine what it might look like and how

1220
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: it might fit with what I have learned about before. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely,

1221
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's that's that's great advice for

1222
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: radical politics. It's also just good life advice, Yeah, especially

1223
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: for engaging with ideas that you are less keen on

1224
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: at the moment or or or just unaware of. Yeah.

1225
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: I mean, my whole thing is if I have like

1226
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: a strong gut reaction to something, it might be because

1227
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: it may be hitting a part of me that might

1228
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: be benefiting from that system, you know. I mean I

1229
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: don't benefit from the system in a lot of respects.

1230
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: You know, as a black guy from the Caribbean, but

1231
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: as a man, as in as a sit sis headman.

1232
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: You know, I do have privileges that I must be

1233
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: aware of and I can't just like be so quick

1234
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 1: to shut down you know, something that might even a

1235
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: bit uncomfortable, you know, Yeah, I think that's such a

1236
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: valuable thing to keep in mind, especially as a a

1237
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: more or less sis white guy like a you know,

1238
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: a significant number of people listening are if you're uncomfortable

1239
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 1: by a new idea? Is it? Is it because the

1240
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: idea is bad? Or is because it strikes at an

1241
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: area in which you may not even have like thought

1242
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: about being privileged, like I'm I'm uncomfortable I had even

1243
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:56,640
Speaker 1: though there's no I have no intellectual argument against it

1244
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 1: with the idea of of ending, are you of cars

1245
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: as they exist? Because I love I love to drive.

1246
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,919
Speaker 1: But that's also heavily rooted in in in tremendous privilege

1247
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: on my behalf um American culture and stuffy and um

1248
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, we we we we did talk about that

1249
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: a bit and the opening episodes of season two, the

1250
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,600
Speaker 1: idea that like a more you know, when we we

1251
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: kind of had our little utopian ending the idea that like,

1252
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 1: well maybe you'd have a car that's communally owned and

1253
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 1: used for certain tasks. But you know, the idea of

1254
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: of of car culture as the center of a city

1255
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: is um is death. It's just death. When we talked

1256
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 1: about getting past cars is not to say that like

1257
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:42,440
Speaker 1: people will never use vehicles that move again, Like obviously

1258
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 1: we will. They're necessary for something and all. Going back

1259
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: to horse drawn buggies. I think one of the last

1260
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: things on like solar Punk and kind of tying into

1261
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: the whole kind of nature of the shows, I really

1262
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: liked enter your point on like how solar punk is

1263
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: like an energizing force, and I feel like we have

1264
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,600
Speaker 1: very few of those on the left and especially on

1265
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: the anarchist left. Um, like i've i've, i've, i've I've

1266
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: had my decent stint of like anarcho nihilism. And the problem,

1267
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: like the problem with that is like it's very easy,

1268
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: Like anarch nihilism is one of the easiest ideologies to

1269
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: grasp onto because it vlidifies all of your bad feelings. Um.

1270
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: But it also it's most of the people who I

1271
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 1: know who are like real into anarchro nihilism, they're generally

1272
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: not very happy people because it's kind of it's kind

1273
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:35,240
Speaker 1: of miserable all the time. Um, and sure they'll like

1274
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: scoff at like solar punk is like some like greenwashed

1275
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: yogurt commercial, like you know, like utopian thing, but also

1276
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 1: like it's actually lots of solar punk that we've talked about.

1277
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: It's like actually about doing specific things, Like it's actually

1278
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: like actually going to do something rather than just being

1279
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: an insurrecto kid um or just just you know, talking

1280
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: about nihilist znes and books on Twitter for all day.

1281
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: And I think one of one of your one of

1282
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 1: my favorite videos of yours is your video on the

1283
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 1: psychology of collapse UM, because I think that's one of

1284
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: my favorites as well. It's it's, it's, it's, it's it's

1285
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 1: really just like a masterpiece and how deep you get

1286
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: into every different type of collapse thinking, because it's not

1287
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: just on the rights, not not not not to the left.

1288
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: It's not just whether you're you know more you know, anarchist,

1289
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,280
Speaker 1: more authoritarian. It's like you get into every specific type

1290
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: of thinking that plays into this idea around collapse. And

1291
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 1: I think if I recommend everyone check out your channel

1292
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: especially watching your Solar Point videos, but specifically on the

1293
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: topic of collapse. You know, part of our show we

1294
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 1: were trying to kind of be a little bit like

1295
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: anti collapse UM. And I think your your video really

1296
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: shows the depth of that topic UM and how to

1297
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 1: approach this, because collapse is a feeling, like it's a

1298
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,440
Speaker 1: feeling we all have, and it needs to be interrogated.

1299
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,519
Speaker 1: And I think your video is just a magnificent job

1300
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: interrogating that feeling, right, thank you. I can't overemphasize how

1301
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: important that is, because I I one of the major failings.

1302
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: There were a number of victories for kind of anarchist thought,

1303
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: particularly within the United States during the the insurrection last year,

1304
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,879
Speaker 1: one of its tremendous defeats is that it has become

1305
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: characterized in a huge number of people's eyes as breaking

1306
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: windows and and starting fires um. And yeah, that's a

1307
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: lot of that is because the media is trash, um,

1308
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: and it's trash it reporting on on all of this stuff.

1309
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 1: But some of it is because a lot of people

1310
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 1: have let that be their primary praxis UM. And that again,

1311
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't care about people breaking windows, I don't care

1312
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 1: about people lighting dumpster fires, but if that's what you're

1313
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: presenting to the world as your practice, that doesn't appeal

1314
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: to people. And you have to um, because yeah, anarchism

1315
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: is not just destructive, it is also constructive. The constructive

1316
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: part we need to be boosting more than And there

1317
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: were some, you know, from the context of Portland's some

1318
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 1: really strong examples of that last year. The incredible amount

1319
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 1: of mutual aid that was was put together aid of time. Yeah,

1320
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: during the fire relief was was incredible. UM. And the

1321
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: Red House, the the eviction defense occupation was a really

1322
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: good repost to you know, the disaster that was the

1323
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: Chaz in Seattle, that this was like, this was an

1324
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: area that was temporarily autonomous from the police, that did

1325
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: not collapse into violence, that succeeded in its goal, and

1326
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: that cleaned up after itself and presented an option for

1327
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 1: people like this is how it can look when we

1328
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: try to evict people. You know, this is what can happen. UM.

1329
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: So I think there I don't want to like be

1330
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:45,799
Speaker 1: too negative, but I think that a lot of folks

1331
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: because of for a variety of reasons, you know, the

1332
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,880
Speaker 1: there's been so much focus on kind of the insurrection,

1333
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: not even that because I think that building can be insurrectionist.

1334
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:02,520
Speaker 1: I think that se guerilla gardening can be profoundly insurrectionists.

1335
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 1: It's like, destruction has an immediate result of making you

1336
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 1: feel better, right, it has an immediate of endorphins and hormones.

1337
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: It makes you happy when you do it. It's it,

1338
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: it is it is an exhilarating act, and you feel

1339
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: like you're accomplishing something. What's harder is to like have

1340
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 1: that same feeling by doing seed bobbing right by by

1341
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: actually like improving your community slowly through these types of

1342
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: like so the park ideas, they don't have the same

1343
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 1: immediate emotional reactions. So a lot of people like when

1344
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: they you know, think about what insurrection is, they can

1345
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: a default to this destructive pendency which destruction has its

1346
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 1: time and place. Um, But if that's your only practice,

1347
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 1: we're not gonna improve the world at all, Like, right,

1348
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: that's that's not gonna do anything. Helping through you know,

1349
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 1: giving out food, helping through giving out socks and clothes,

1350
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 1: helping through all of these solar punk ways. These are

1351
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: things that actually like are going to improve things on

1352
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: a tangible level. They and they're gonna make more people

1353
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: be like, oh, hey, what are the anarchists doing. That's

1354
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 1: actually interesting versus oh, what are these anarchists are doing?

1355
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: This is stupid? Ignore everything they say. Yeah, people have

1356
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: to remember as well that, um, you know, there's seeds

1357
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: I sort of funk in Kirp Potkins writ things, you know,

1358
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 1: from the Conquest of bread to mutual aid, and those

1359
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: are sort of things that should be just as emphasized

1360
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 1: as the destructive, exhigerating aspects of anis. Yeah, there's a

1361
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: line in a Frank Turner song, a couple of lines

1362
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: actually in a song called nineteen thirty three that I

1363
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: go back to a lot, but one of them is

1364
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: you can't fix the world of all you have is

1365
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 1: a hammer. And that's I guess what I see is

1366
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 1: like the primary practical benefit of solar punk, just as

1367
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: an aesthetic as a piece of fiction, is getting people

1368
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: to expand their toolbox. Yeah, get yourself a trowel, you know,

1369
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: some some screwdrivas, you know. Yeah, keep the hammer, you

1370
01:18:56,360 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 1: need that sometimes too, but let's grab some other tools.

1371
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 1: Expand the toolbox. Thing isn't really great metaphor this type

1372
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, Yeah, Um, I think that's most of

1373
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: what we're going to get into today. Um, there's a

1374
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 1: couple of pieces of things I would want to read.

1375
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: One of them Isn't. This Isn't directly I think it

1376
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:19,439
Speaker 1: predates the solar punk but it it I think feeds

1377
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 1: into some of what I think. It emotionally feeds into

1378
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: a lot of what we're talking about here. It's an

1379
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: essay from David Graber called The Shock of Victory UM,

1380
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: which I think is really useful to me. Yeah. Um,

1381
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 1: And I would also recommend um Corey doctor O's new

1382
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: fiction novel walk Away UM, which I think is a

1383
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 1: really wonderful piece. Was a wonderful, wonderful book. I should

1384
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: have included my recommendations. It was really great. Yeah. I

1385
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 1: read it recently and it made me, Um. It made

1386
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: me feel the way like as a fiction writer that

1387
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: a good piece of fiction should, which is like I

1388
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: felt bad. Uh. I felt bad about out some of

1389
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 1: the things that I had written, because there's there's there's

1390
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 1: such there's so much more courage because I wrote a

1391
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 1: piece of fiction that has some solar punk elements, has

1392
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 1: some quasi utopian elements in the dystopia, but I didn't

1393
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: have the courage to kind of go as far as

1394
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: as Corey did, and to imagine a kind of passivism

1395
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: that he he has the courage to kind of put

1396
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: into the into the hands of his his protagonists. Like I,

1397
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: I really respect that about the book. I mean, the

1398
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: book goes in some very interesting eye directions as well,

1399
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: but it's it's got some great ship um, and I

1400
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: always enjoy Corey's Corey's lef of burning man. Um of

1401
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: what it could be is kind of what the what

1402
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: what some of it's turned into? But yeah, um, Andrew,

1403
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 1: is there anything else you wanted to get into before

1404
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 1: we we close this out? I just want to remind

1405
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: people to check on your friends. M you know, Um,

1406
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 1: we're all going through various stages of collaps as I

1407
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: outlined in my video, and you know we shift between

1408
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: them from time to time, so try not to go

1409
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 1: through it alone. You know, there's no there's no eye

1410
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: in Sula Punk. Yeah yeah, um check out st Andrew

1411
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: on YouTube at st andrews Um. Um, Andrew, is there

1412
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:27,599
Speaker 1: any anything else you wanted to kind of plug from

1413
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 1: your own your own personal work. Yeah? So, um, other

1414
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: than the you know, the Sula Punk videos and the

1415
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: collapse videos, I want to remind sorry, I rather I

1416
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:44,600
Speaker 1: want to shout out my video on black anarchism. I

1417
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 1: think that is a pretty essential look into, uh the

1418
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 1: history of black anarchism in the United States and in

1419
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: the world. I also want to recommend um my video

1420
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: on the psychology of authoritarian his own. I know a

1421
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:04,680
Speaker 1: lot of people have family members who are conservative or

1422
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: on the right to will maybe leading fascist, and I

1423
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 1: think I can to be helpful for you know, helping

1424
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 1: them to or rather helping you to understand the way

1425
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 1: they mindset side mm hm. And also, you know, check

1426
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 1: out my video on puma Let's Sing. I think that

1427
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 1: was a pretty fun one as well. It breaks down

1428
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: a lot of it break breaks down how you can

1429
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 1: go about implementing food forests or puma culture gardens wherever

1430
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: you find yourself. Awesome, Um, thank you very much for

1431
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,759
Speaker 1: being on the show, Andrew, thank you all for listening.

1432
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow, or if this comes out Friday,

1433
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 1: we'll be back, you know, another day. We'll be back

1434
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: at some point. You know, you know how this works.

1435
01:22:48,320 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: You understand podcasts the art world, it is essentially a

1436
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 1: money laundering business. The best fakes are still hanging off

1437
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,799
Speaker 1: people's walls. You know they don't even know or suspect

1438
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: that they're fakes. I'm like Baldwin and this is a

1439
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 1: podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in the art world.

1440
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 1: You knew that the painting was fake. Um. Listen to

1441
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 1: Art Fraud starting February one on the I Heart Radio app,

1442
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Evrodsky,

1443
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 1: author of the New York Times bestseller fair Play and

1444
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: Find your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender division of labor,

1445
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor as eating A Rucar,

1446
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,560
Speaker 1: a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an expertise and

1447
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: the science of stress, resilience, mental health, and burnout. We're

1448
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 1: so excited to share our podcast, Time Out, a production

1449
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: of Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine. We're uncovering why society

1450
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 1: makes it so hard for women to treat their time

1451
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: with the value it deserves. So take this time out

1452
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 1: with us. Listen to Time Out, a fair Play podcast

1453
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

1454
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm Tanya Sam, host of the

1455
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:24,479
Speaker 1: Money Moves podcast powered by Greenwood. This daily podcast will

1456
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: help give you the keys to the Kingdom of financial stability,

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Speaker 1: wealth and abundance with celebrity guests like Rick Ross, Amanda Sells,

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1461
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Speaker 1: Moves podcast powered by green One on the I Heart

1462
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Speaker 1: Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts, and make

1463
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 1: sure you leave a review a podcast. All right, Chris,

1464
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 1: you go, so welcome, Welcome to it could happen here

1465
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: a podcast that I think, for the first time is

1466
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 1: just me and Robert h. This is this is the

1467
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: very first time that this is happening. You're You're all

1468
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 1: here at a moment of legendary significance and historic importance.

1469
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 1: So try to try to face it with the requisite

1470
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 1: all that's all I ask, yes. And another thing that, man,

1471
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 1: this is a terrible transition. Something else we're facing with

1472
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:33,480
Speaker 1: requisite awe is weird shortages of goods and price increases.

1473
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: M So it's fucking rad. I was just at the

1474
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: Asian market today, um, and they did not have the

1475
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:47,440
Speaker 1: snack chips that I most prefer now officially a calamity. Um,

1476
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: we've entered crisis of historic proportion. Yeah, I think I

1477
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to live through this one. Nope,

1478
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: we're doing We can't look at that without the Asian

1479
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 1: snack chips, Like it's the ones that are like they're

1480
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: like pieces of seaweed but that have been fried and

1481
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: temper a batter's completely out tragic, absolutely tragifying. I think

1482
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:10,719
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things. I mean, you've got a script,

1483
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: so I'll probably just let you do that in the

1484
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: not too distant future. But one of the things that's

1485
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 1: frustrating to me, although maybe it shouldn't be because I'm

1486
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: probably partly responsible for this, is that this is being um,

1487
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:24,680
Speaker 1: this is often kind of being talked about with by

1488
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: people online, is like, oh, it's a sign that like

1489
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 1: society is crumbling. And what they mean by that is

1490
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 1: that like, oh, well, we just don't have stuff, like

1491
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 1: we're we're not able to like keep up with with

1492
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,719
Speaker 1: demand and like the ability to produce these things is crumbling.

1493
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: And it's actually much more complex than that, and a

1494
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 1: lot less rooted in a lack of specific resources and

1495
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 1: more decisions made under capitalism about how the supply chain

1496
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 1: would work, and it's I don't know. I think it's

1497
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 1: important because it is you can say it still is

1498
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 1: like a situation where this is an example of the

1499
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:59,559
Speaker 1: system falling apart, but it's not falling apart because we

1500
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 1: don't have the paper to make toilet paper with. It's

1501
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: falling apart because decisions were made in order to increase

1502
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 1: the stock prices of companies by reducing the amount of

1503
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: products that they kept on hand, and that's led to

1504
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 1: an incredibly fragile system that that did nothing well but

1505
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: maximize profits. And I think, well, okay, I think there's

1506
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of things with that that we

1507
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: should talk about. Yeah, because there's a lot of different

1508
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: explanations they're floating around for why is happening, and I

1509
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: think some of them are good, but I think a

1510
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 1: lot of them are missing part of the story. And

1511
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: I think it's important because so like, like my grandma

1512
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 1: like called me yesterday, like like called our family to

1513
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 1: like talk about the supply chain problem because someone had

1514
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: like she'd been like fed a conspiracy theory that like

1515
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 1: the shortages were because American dock workers like didn't want

1516
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: to open containers from China. Yeah, it's like yeah, like

1517
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not that's not right. But it's

1518
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:59,360
Speaker 1: not like if that had happened, it would be like, well, okay,

1519
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 1: that does scan like yeah, and I think yeah, and

1520
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: like I think this is this is a moment where yeah,

1521
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, okay, think think things are not working how

1522
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: they're supposed to. And there's a lot of sort of

1523
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 1: competing stories about it, one which because on which are bad.

1524
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 1: And I think most of the conventional accounts and whereber

1525
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: It was talking about this, uh, you know, even the

1526
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 1: really good ones, they start with sort of the eighties

1527
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:24,120
Speaker 1: Wall Street takeover of corporate America and the transformation of

1528
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: sort of all corporate management into an attempt to like

1529
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: raise short term stock prices. And you know, part of

1530
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 1: this is lead in production and this is true, and

1531
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:35,800
Speaker 1: this is sort of true, but dismisses about half of

1532
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,640
Speaker 1: the story. And and the part of the story that

1533
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: it misses that's really important, I think is the sort

1534
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 1: of it's it's the broader like frame in which all

1535
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: of this is happening in is essentially the story of

1536
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: how the working class essentially loses the class war. In

1537
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 1: the six season seventies and weirdly, it's also a story

1538
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:04,240
Speaker 1: about the co's boomerang, which you have. Yeah, yes, long,

1539
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 1: throw in, throw in the music clip that we've all

1540
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 1: decided is going to be the one we put in

1541
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 1: whenever someone talks about foods boomerang, which is probably just

1542
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 1: going to be another time machine noise. So real quick

1543
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:24,640
Speaker 1: Corse credit to Cody. Um, Okay, continue brief refresher on

1544
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:27,720
Speaker 1: what that is. So basically the free cost boomerang is that. Okay,

1545
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: if if you if, if if a government does something

1546
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:34,120
Speaker 1: like repressive like technology, repressive technique or passive technology like

1547
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:36,720
Speaker 1: in a colony, like in a war somewhere, eventually it

1548
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:38,559
Speaker 1: will come back and be used against like the citizens

1549
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:42,640
Speaker 1: of that country. And yeah, a great example would be

1550
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 1: fingerprinting was invented for the British, like policing um insurgents

1551
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: in Malaysia, and is now has come back to every

1552
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, colonizing nation now uses fingerprinting, which is also

1553
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: deeply flawed as a technology. But anyway, yeah, yeah, and

1554
01:29:57,720 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, and I think most people tend to think

1555
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 1: about this as a armored personnel carriers. But we will

1556
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,759
Speaker 1: eventually get to this. The boomerang technology here is actually

1557
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: shipping containers hell yeah, which have done like irreparable damage

1558
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: to the mankind. Alright, alright, I'm ready for this. I

1559
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:17,679
Speaker 1: don't know much about this. Hit me, all right, bear

1560
01:30:17,720 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 1: with you with this, because we're we're we're we're gonna

1561
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 1: talk about two threads. They're going to seem like they

1562
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with supply chains, and then they're

1563
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:26,880
Speaker 1: all going to tie together. It turns out is literally

1564
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: all supply chains. So in the citties and seventies, you have,

1565
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 1: you know, in very very broad general strokes, you have

1566
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 1: two kinds of class war. The first kind is what

1567
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 1: I'm sort of very broadly calling the war and the factories.

1568
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:43,320
Speaker 1: And this is this is an enormous series that sort

1569
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 1: of strikes outright uprisings a stretch from sort of Detroit

1570
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: to tur into Tokyo. And you know, the most famous

1571
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 1: of these is the student sort of worker uprising in

1572
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:57,040
Speaker 1: May sixty eight in France. And they you know, they're

1573
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:59,639
Speaker 1: they're they're close enough taking the country that like French

1574
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 1: presis at Charles de Gaul, like flees in a helicopter

1575
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 1: to in secret, and like flees to Germany in secret

1576
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,720
Speaker 1: and you know and that that that that's like a

1577
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 1: big event, but it's sort of it sort of fades.

1578
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 1: What doesn't fade is May sixty eight in Italy, and

1579
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: you know that it doesn't fade there because Italy, Italy

1580
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 1: has been in the middle of a strike wave since

1581
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: two sixty four. It's the whole sixties that basically just

1582
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 1: strik waves there and you know, they have their own

1583
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 1: sixty and unlike in France where peters out, in Italy

1584
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 1: you get the just incredibly named hot Hot Autumn of

1585
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 1: sixty nine, which is a hot autumn. Yeah, it's it's great.

1586
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 1: And so basically what happens is you get hundreds of

1587
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: thousands of workers go on strike, they start seizing control

1588
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 1: their factories, um and most of most of this is

1589
01:31:56,400 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: playing out in in the Fiat factories. Yeah, it's giant

1590
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:04,720
Speaker 1: car factories in Italy's industrial triangle. And you know, I

1591
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 1: mean they're there for like, they're there for a long time.

1592
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 1: They're into like seventy and eventually they lose. But you know,

1593
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 1: Italy is just sort of rocked by conflict and sort

1594
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: of class war stuff, and all of this reculminates in

1595
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,599
Speaker 1: yet another enormous uprising in en seventies seven. This one

1596
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 1: driven like in large part by people who we're basically

1597
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 1: just like, funk this, I'm not working in the factory anymore.

1598
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 1: It's awful, which which I think is something that like,

1599
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, if you're looking at the modern political landscape,

1600
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of people who are going like,

1601
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 1: funk this, I'm not going to go like die in

1602
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: these factories anymore. And those people all have in a

1603
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:51,519
Speaker 1: lot of cases, safer employing situations than many people today. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1604
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 1: Like it's starting to get worse then, which is why

1605
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 1: people are are frustrated. But like yeah, yeah, you know,

1606
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,240
Speaker 1: And and this is sort of interesting because is there

1607
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 1: there's a kind of like Vicky Uster while I've had

1608
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 1: on here, it calls it, it calls it like the

1609
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: Monkeys Paul thing where it's like people in the seventies

1610
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 1: and Italy wanted like autonomy and like freedom from work,

1611
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 1: and so what what capitalism gave them was like, oh,

1612
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,879
Speaker 1: we'll give you autonomy, We'll just make you all contract workers.

1613
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:18,040
Speaker 1: And now like yeah, you don't you don't have to

1614
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:19,720
Speaker 1: like wake up every morning and like go to a

1615
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: job in the factory and leave it five or whatever.

1616
01:33:21,439 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 1: But now you just you know, you're you're a contract worker,

1617
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 1: so you just have no stability whatsoever, and that that's

1618
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: your autonomy. But you know, this, this is this is

1619
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 1: really bad for the Italian ruling class. Like they almost

1620
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 1: lose control of Italy three times in ten years, and

1621
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:40,639
Speaker 1: after a seventy seven they're just like fuck this, and they,

1622
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 1: i mean, they started to start doing mass arrest. They

1623
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: imprison like tens of thousands of people, the torture a

1624
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 1: bunch of people, and you know, but it becomes clear

1625
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 1: that like pure political repression is like not going to

1626
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: be enough to like just destroy the section of the

1627
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:59,320
Speaker 1: working class movements that you know, God help you thinks

1628
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,719
Speaker 1: that you should like run production for themselves. And so

1629
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 1: they start looking elsewhere for answers. And the place they

1630
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: find these answers, weirdly enough, is in the second set

1631
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,559
Speaker 1: of wars that are going on in this period, which

1632
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:17,040
Speaker 1: are the sort of national liberation wars. And you know,

1633
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 1: these are the national liberation wars. Are these these are

1634
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 1: full scale, like these aren't sort of class warm metaphors.

1635
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:25,519
Speaker 1: These are you know, this is this is giddy be Saw,

1636
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:29,799
Speaker 1: This is Algeria and you know, importantly for for our purposes,

1637
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 1: the US fights two of them, which is Korean Vietnam.

1638
01:34:34,160 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 1: Now Korean Vietnam are strategically really bad places for the

1639
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:43,479
Speaker 1: US to fight wars, like they're on the other side

1640
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 1: of the world, which you know, it makes it more

1641
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:49,680
Speaker 1: difficult to do war crimes because you know, if you're

1642
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: fire bombing of village, right, you have to be able

1643
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:54,960
Speaker 1: to move fire bombs, jet fighters and like oil and

1644
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: rations to the other side of the world. And this

1645
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: is hard, as it carried about. It easier when they

1646
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: can commit war crimes. And like I don't know, duloof, Yeah, yeah, well,

1647
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: like even even like you know, you you got to

1648
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 1: commit a war crime in Mexico, it's like, okay, you

1649
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:10,760
Speaker 1: just sign a bunch of people over the border. It

1650
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: would be so easy to commit war crimes in Mexico. Yeah,

1651
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 1: and and really really up our war crime quoti. Well,

1652
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: I would say, we do do a lot of war

1653
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:23,040
Speaker 1: crimes in Mexico. It's just that like they're done based

1654
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:25,800
Speaker 1: on by proxies. That's true. But I mean we've filled

1655
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 1: like we've killed like a million people there in the

1656
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,760
Speaker 1: last like twenty years, and the War on drugs. But yeah,

1657
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,639
Speaker 1: you knows, so the US, you know, the U s okay,

1658
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:36,800
Speaker 1: So it has this logistics problem. In logistics problem is

1659
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,400
Speaker 1: that it can't do war crimes enough, and so it

1660
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: comes up with a couple of solutions to them. One

1661
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:45,479
Speaker 1: of them is essentially they rebuild the whole Japanese economy

1662
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:47,880
Speaker 1: in order to just use Japan's industrial base to fight

1663
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 1: the war in Korea, and then after the war in

1664
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 1: Korea ends, they rebuild the South Korean economy in order

1665
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:56,759
Speaker 1: to you know, fight the war in Vietnam. And this works,

1666
01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: but it doesn't solve the problem that you know, okay,

1667
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: even even even if you're you know, you're you have

1668
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,559
Speaker 1: an industrial base in Japan, right, you still need to

1669
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: be able to efficiently move things by sea to Korea,

1670
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 1: and you know, you still need to still supplies you

1671
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,879
Speaker 1: need to move from the US. And so the solution

1672
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: for this is containery shipping. And containery shipping. This is

1673
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 1: the pivot point upon which the entire history of the

1674
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:30,400
Speaker 1: twentieth century and everything that's happening in the twenty one

1675
01:36:30,479 --> 01:36:33,720
Speaker 1: century hinges on like this, this is the pivot and

1676
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm not even this isn't even really

1677
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:39,559
Speaker 1: an exaggeration, because it turns out that like the ability

1678
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 1: to have uniform boxes that you can stack on top

1679
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 1: of each other like legos and put on a ship

1680
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 1: is like like it's like comparable to the nuclear bomb

1681
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:54,120
Speaker 1: in terms of how important it is, which is really

1682
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 1: really used to the only way to get things from

1683
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 1: A to B was a big wooden ship filled with

1684
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,760
Speaker 1: the bloons like pilet bags and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I

1685
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 1: don't know, how did we like global commerce work before

1686
01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:08,639
Speaker 1: shipping containers? What did we what did we literally like

1687
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:11,599
Speaker 1: you just like sometimes sometimes you would just like physically

1688
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:14,080
Speaker 1: people would just pick up the items and put them

1689
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,080
Speaker 1: on the ship, or they would like sometimes they put

1690
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:19,839
Speaker 1: them in boxes or like you would like strap them

1691
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:23,040
Speaker 1: to like the top of the ship. And so with

1692
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: the UH trains a lot, they would just like strap

1693
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:31,320
Speaker 1: like machinery like onto a train car. And this was

1694
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: like not this is like really inefficient, it's really so yeah,

1695
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 1: and so the US in order to like do war

1696
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: crimes in Korea, and then you know it's just like, oh, hey,

1697
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 1: what if we just make metal boxes and then they

1698
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:46,840
Speaker 1: get they progressively get better and better at it, because

1699
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:48,439
Speaker 1: you know, they have to go do more war crimes

1700
01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:51,840
Speaker 1: in in Vietnam. And but by the time you're getting

1701
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: to the end, yeah, yeah, you know, look lots of

1702
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:56,160
Speaker 1: war crimes that do you need? You need good logistics

1703
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:59,120
Speaker 1: networks to do all of these war crimes. I mean,

1704
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 1: it makes sense that that's where we got shipping containers.

1705
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:03,599
Speaker 1: But I didn't realize. I had just assumed it would

1706
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 1: have come out of the shipping industry as opposed to

1707
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:10,320
Speaker 1: like we had to get more missiles over to these places. Yeah,

1708
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:12,760
Speaker 1: well this is the interesting thing. We'll get to this

1709
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,720
Speaker 1: in a bit. But basically, like a lot of the

1710
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:20,479
Speaker 1: logistics revolution stuff either comes out of the military or

1711
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: is developed by X fascists and and and a lot

1712
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: of the reason for this is Okay, I mean this

1713
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,000
Speaker 1: is you know, this is the seventies. They're still are

1714
01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 1: indeed happening like this still actual research and developments. But

1715
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:35,160
Speaker 1: the military is doing just an enormous amount of the

1716
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 1: research development for all of global capitalism. And you know,

1717
01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 1: and and and the other thing, Yes, what's happening here?

1718
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:47,200
Speaker 1: And you know this this is the sort of boomerang

1719
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: thing is that you know, so the container is shipping

1720
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,840
Speaker 1: logistics stuff that had been used to just like obliterate

1721
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:56,559
Speaker 1: the global South suddenly starts spreading into capital, like you know,

1722
01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: just into like broader shipping because people look at this

1723
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, this is a fish. And then

1724
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,760
Speaker 1: the contracting companies the US is using. This turns into

1725
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 1: the solution to both sort of the war and the

1726
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 1: factories are talking about in in in Europe and the

1727
01:39:08,360 --> 01:39:11,680
Speaker 1: US and in Japan itself, and then also to the

1728
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,760
Speaker 1: solution of the national liberation movements and sort of like

1729
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 1: communism in East Asia because you know, Okay, so you

1730
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:21,599
Speaker 1: have this question, right the US, like we kind of

1731
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:24,040
Speaker 1: fight to a draw in Korea, like we kill a

1732
01:39:24,120 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: norm's number of people, but the North Korea, yeah, and

1733
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,679
Speaker 1: like yeah, but we don't really win, right, like we

1734
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 1: we we can't actually defeat the Chinese army or yeah,

1735
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 1: and and you know, and we lose Vietnam. And so

1736
01:39:39,240 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: the question is, okay, so like how how are we

1737
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 1: going to stop communism? And the answer, it turns out,

1738
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: is to just integrate integrate the communist countries into the

1739
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,600
Speaker 1: capitalist supply chain. And I mean there's a lot of

1740
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 1: examples of this, like market Thatcher, for example, is like

1741
01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 1: very good buddies with Nikolai chessqu Ah. That's nice. They

1742
01:39:56,439 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 1: could be friends despite their the fact that they yeah,

1743
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 1: well I guess they weren't really that different as people, No,

1744
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: not really like ba. Basically the difference is that Ky

1745
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 1: lost and thus got like murdered on state television on

1746
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 1: a state funeral treatment. That's the official stance they should

1747
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: for stuff we will talk about in a bit. But yes,

1748
01:40:23,479 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 1: but you know, the archetypal example of this is actually China.

1749
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,000
Speaker 1: And you know there's a lot of various sort of

1750
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 1: skilled diplomatic work by Kissinger and also the US like

1751
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 1: throughout the seventies just like they're just like sending entire

1752
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,760
Speaker 1: factories to China, like like the like they'll they'll they'll

1753
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 1: take an entire factory, break it down, put it in

1754
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: boxes and then just like ship at the China great

1755
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 1: at the time. And yes, so yeah, they're they're they're

1756
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:52,880
Speaker 1: just like sending technology of China. And the end result

1757
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 1: of this is that you know, China goes from like

1758
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 1: fighting American troops with like like do banit charges like

1759
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 1: three yeah yeah against the Yeah. I was just like

1760
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:10,600
Speaker 1: yeah to to you know, being an American ally in

1761
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 1: like invading Vietnam as a way to like stick it

1762
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: to the Soviets basically, and so, you know, so the

1763
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:19,880
Speaker 1: uses sensely just integrates China to the global supply chain,

1764
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: and they eventually do the same thing to Vietnam, which

1765
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:24,920
Speaker 1: again is another country that they couldn't defeat militarily. But

1766
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:26,479
Speaker 1: what they you know what they actually beat them with.

1767
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:29,400
Speaker 1: It's a shipping container. And before the shipping container, this

1768
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:31,599
Speaker 1: would have been impossible, right, like basically it was too

1769
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 1: inefficient and too expensive, like the cost of shipping was

1770
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:38,400
Speaker 1: too high to have all of this production, you know,

1771
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:41,120
Speaker 1: like some half your parts made in China, some of

1772
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:43,479
Speaker 1: them made India's on them made in like Japan's one

1773
01:41:43,479 --> 01:41:45,080
Speaker 1: of the maiden Korean and then shipped them all around

1774
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:47,400
Speaker 1: the world, which is how the modern system works. But

1775
01:41:47,479 --> 01:41:50,639
Speaker 1: with with container I shipping, suddenly shipping is really cheap

1776
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:53,960
Speaker 1: and it becomes much cheaper to pay shipping costs it

1777
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 1: is to pay labor costs. And this is the solution

1778
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:00,160
Speaker 1: to to the sort of war in the factories. Know,

1779
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:02,400
Speaker 1: if if workers start making too much noise about pay

1780
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 1: or like again a god forbids start talking about like

1781
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 1: taking control of factories and running the democratically like some

1782
01:42:07,479 --> 01:42:10,919
Speaker 1: kind of anarchist monsters. Corporation can just move the factories overseas,

1783
01:42:12,320 --> 01:42:14,799
Speaker 1: and this becomes an incredibly effective way to just destroy

1784
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 1: the labor movement because anytime, you know, organized labor starts

1785
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 1: making demands, you can be like, well, okay, sorry, we're

1786
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: just gonna pack up and we're gonna you know, we're

1787
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:23,360
Speaker 1: gonna go to China, We're gonna go to somewhere else.

1788
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 1: And this coincides with, you know, the thing, the thing

1789
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,919
Speaker 1: that gets talked about a lot in the conventional accounts,

1790
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 1: which is the Wall Street sort of corporate takeover, well,

1791
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 1: the Wall Street takeover of corporate America, which is something

1792
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 1: I think that sounds really weird to us now, but

1793
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:44,519
Speaker 1: you know, the whole the whole story here is really

1794
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 1: interesting and extremely long and if if you want to

1795
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: like have a very detailed account of how this all

1796
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,440
Speaker 1: played out, The book Liquidated by Karen Hoe is just incredible,

1797
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:01,479
Speaker 1: like ethnography and his stree of Wall Street. She like

1798
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 1: she's a karent hous'n athropologist, and she like went and

1799
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 1: worked on Wall Street and like did ethnography there for

1800
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:10,360
Speaker 1: a bit and it's very interesting stuff. But it's kind

1801
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:14,200
Speaker 1: of outside of our scope. So the very very very

1802
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:17,719
Speaker 1: short version is that the Wall Street bankers basically figure

1803
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:21,880
Speaker 1: out a way to just like buy out corporations to

1804
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,000
Speaker 1: raise a bunch of money and just entirely buy out corporations.

1805
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: And then once they have the corporation, right, what what

1806
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 1: what what the you know? This is corporate rating. So

1807
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:32,599
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they loot all the assets, they sell

1808
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: it off, and they try to sell off their stock

1809
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 1: at a higher price. The parcels of this is sort

1810
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:38,640
Speaker 1: of complicated, but the net result of this is that

1811
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:41,439
Speaker 1: Wall Street completely takes over the corporate world in the

1812
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: way they hadn't before. Like the Wall Streets, the Wall

1813
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:46,240
Speaker 1: Street like finance people are now you know, they're there

1814
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 1: are people making off the decisions, and you know, and

1815
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:53,800
Speaker 1: and they're they're only goal is to raise the stock price,

1816
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:55,400
Speaker 1: like that's that's the only thing they care about. That

1817
01:43:55,479 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: they don't they don't even care about making money. Right

1818
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,719
Speaker 1: if if you lose money and your stock price still rises,

1819
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 1: like you don't care. And those guys start looking at

1820
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:06,000
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that had existed in corporations

1821
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:09,800
Speaker 1: before that, things like pensions, uh particularly things like research

1822
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 1: and development. They look at it and go, Okay, why

1823
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:14,000
Speaker 1: are we spending money on R and D? Like this,

1824
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 1: This doesn't this doesn't raise our stock price, This doesn't

1825
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:18,559
Speaker 1: have any immediate shorter and value. So they cut it right,

1826
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:21,759
Speaker 1: They start cutting pensions. They starts just destroying the unions.

1827
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 1: And you know, and and because because this is happening

1828
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: at the same time as corporations really like get the

1829
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:34,360
Speaker 1: ability to outsource for the first time, you know, they

1830
01:44:34,479 --> 01:44:37,760
Speaker 1: lean into it and they start essentially we're just just

1831
01:44:37,800 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 1: slashing the aount of people who work for the company,

1832
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:42,240
Speaker 1: right and so you know, and so and instead of

1833
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 1: having direct employees, they start working with contractors, and they

1834
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:48,679
Speaker 1: start moving to the contractors overseas, and you know, and

1835
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:50,000
Speaker 1: and this is this is where we get to sort

1836
01:44:50,040 --> 01:44:56,760
Speaker 1: of this whole outsourcing wave because you know, something I

1837
01:44:56,800 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 1: don't think I talked about enough withoutsourcing is why actually

1838
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 1: are the labor costs lower in the countries that these

1839
01:45:05,320 --> 01:45:09,800
Speaker 1: people are are moving their factories to. H And part

1840
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:11,960
Speaker 1: of it is, you know, people talk about development like

1841
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,600
Speaker 1: they're moving to undeveloped countries, and you know, part of

1842
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:17,920
Speaker 1: part of part of development is just you know, how

1843
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 1: much technological capacity their manufacturing system has, right, and that

1844
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 1: you know. But but the other part of it is

1845
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:27,840
Speaker 1: that if you move your production to say Columbia, right

1846
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:29,640
Speaker 1: or like you know, you're investing in sort of like

1847
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 1: cocoa bean farming in Columbia and people try to do

1848
01:45:32,439 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 1: you need organizing, you can hire des squads to murder them. Yeah,

1849
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:38,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, it's like you can basically just sort

1850
01:45:38,360 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 1: of like you can you can outsource the violence, and

1851
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:43,040
Speaker 1: you can you can you know, the corporate term for

1852
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:45,040
Speaker 1: it is reducing labor costs, but really what you're doing

1853
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:48,440
Speaker 1: is just like murdering people with death squads and terrorizing them,

1854
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:51,720
Speaker 1: and you know that that does lower labor costs, right,

1855
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,840
Speaker 1: But you know, and I think there's there's another example

1856
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 1: of this, Like this is a lot of what like

1857
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:01,360
Speaker 1: the killing at Tienamen was really ab out it was

1858
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:03,600
Speaker 1: you know, not so much in Tianna Square itself. I

1859
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:06,120
Speaker 1: talked about the elseware, but like the workers that they

1860
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:10,400
Speaker 1: kill outside of the square, like a lot of the

1861
01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:13,479
Speaker 1: reason they're doing very little about Tinament Square other than

1862
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:18,439
Speaker 1: like protesters China government bad. The guy stands up the

1863
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:23,439
Speaker 1: tank and then yeah, yeah, yeah, I've talked about this elsewhere.

1864
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,519
Speaker 1: More like the very short version is, so there's a

1865
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:28,160
Speaker 1: bunch of students in the square, right, and the students

1866
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:32,080
Speaker 1: in the square itself like basically they kind of went

1867
01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 1: democracy and mostly they want like market reforms to go faster.

1868
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:40,280
Speaker 1: But then outside of the square, you know, fijings like

1869
01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:44,000
Speaker 1: whole working class shows up and there's these enormous demonstrations.

1870
01:46:44,040 --> 01:46:47,559
Speaker 1: They basically start like like barricading, like blocks and blocks

1871
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 1: and blocks and like this radius outside of the street.

1872
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 1: You get this sort of like mini commune thing. And

1873
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:55,080
Speaker 1: those guys are like, you know, like they're they're they're

1874
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 1: advocating for democracy and the factory like they're you know,

1875
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:05,559
Speaker 1: they're they're talking about things like like they're they're like that,

1876
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, they they they they they have their like

1877
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,439
Speaker 1: marks out and they're talking about how like they're they're

1878
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,160
Speaker 1: they're calculating their rate of surplus value that's being extracted

1879
01:47:13,160 --> 01:47:16,280
Speaker 1: from them by the capitalists. And those are the people,

1880
01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:18,439
Speaker 1: like almost everyone who dies at Chanta man Is is

1881
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 1: from those guys, Like those are the people that they

1882
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:24,040
Speaker 1: just get massacred. And you know, and and the reason

1883
01:47:24,120 --> 01:47:26,760
Speaker 1: that happens is that the CCP is looking at this

1884
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,800
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, this, this is this is like this,

1885
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 1: this is sort of this is the return of organized labor,

1886
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:33,799
Speaker 1: and we need to destroy it before it like gets anywhere.

1887
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:40,639
Speaker 1: And so they do, and organized labor and China just implode.

1888
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean it was already pretty weak because you have

1889
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 1: a lot of state controlled unions, but I mean now

1890
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:47,479
Speaker 1: it's just nothing. And you know, and and and there,

1891
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean there have been attempts to labor organizing and

1892
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:50,960
Speaker 1: China sort of recently, and like yeah, this needs to

1893
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: be just rest everyone, right, and so you know this,

1894
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:54,920
Speaker 1: this this is how this is. This is the price

1895
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 1: of cheap labor, right, it's just incredible state repression. But

1896
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 1: this is also you know, and this is this is

1897
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 1: a sort of like macro scale thing of why the

1898
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:07,639
Speaker 1: supply chains suck because everyone talks about like the efficiency

1899
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:10,479
Speaker 1: of the supply change, but the supply chains aren't efficient.

1900
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:12,680
Speaker 1: They make no sense, right if if if what you're

1901
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: trying to do is move something quickly from points A

1902
01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 1: to point B, they make no sense because you know,

1903
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 1: the supply chaine are spread all over the world, like

1904
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:25,519
Speaker 1: in individual parts are being made in six countries, right,

1905
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:29,960
Speaker 1: you have like people will like for tax dodge purposes,

1906
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:32,760
Speaker 1: Like they'll have one part of a component's built in

1907
01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:34,519
Speaker 1: one country, and then they'll move it from another country

1908
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: to have another part of it, and then they'll ship

1909
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:37,679
Speaker 1: all of it to Mexico and they'll ship it across

1910
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:39,799
Speaker 1: the border and they'll have the whole thing be assembled

1911
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:41,320
Speaker 1: in the USC they can say it was made in

1912
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:43,200
Speaker 1: the US. Like, there's all of these things that are

1913
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 1: just just nonsense right there. They're not they're not efficient

1914
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,920
Speaker 1: at all. It's it's completely ridiculous. It's it's this just

1915
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's just completely absurd web. And and the

1916
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 1: reason why it is designed like this is as as

1917
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:57,640
Speaker 1: a giant sort of kind of unsurgency thing. Like the

1918
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:01,080
Speaker 1: reason the reason the supply chains are are just bad

1919
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:06,840
Speaker 1: is because there, you know, they they they're not designed

1920
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: to move things that they're designed as an instrument to

1921
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:12,360
Speaker 1: just like solve the problem of of of of class

1922
01:49:12,400 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 1: power right there there there, they're designed destroy unions. Are

1923
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,960
Speaker 1: designed to make sure that nobody ever sort of like

1924
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:21,680
Speaker 1: gets any ideas about whidges, to make sure nobody gets

1925
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:26,680
Speaker 1: any ideas about like taking anything. And so you know,

1926
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:29,920
Speaker 1: but in this this this can work for a while.

1927
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:33,920
Speaker 1: The problem is again, like they're not efficient. It's it's

1928
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:37,160
Speaker 1: just it just it is not efficient to like move

1929
01:49:38,120 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 1: have everything made in like six countries and then you

1930
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 1: have to send them somewhere else. Yeah, and so you know,

1931
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:47,280
Speaker 1: it's efficient in the sense that it efficiently maximizes the

1932
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:50,599
Speaker 1: value of stock prices for like stock by backs and stuff.

1933
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:53,640
Speaker 1: And that's generally what is meant by like efficiency in

1934
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:56,760
Speaker 1: that sense is like what makes the seventy people who

1935
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 1: actually own this company the most money. That's the efficient thing.

1936
01:50:00,120 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 1: But it's it's horribly inefficient in every practical sense of

1937
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 1: the word. And and and that this is kind of

1938
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 1: an interesting change because I mean, you know this this

1939
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,439
Speaker 1: isn't to say that like the supply chains that worked

1940
01:50:09,479 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 1: before this were like better, because they also sucked in

1941
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:14,760
Speaker 1: a lot of their own ways. But all of the

1942
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: like efficiency stuff that we're about to talk about with

1943
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 1: just just in time production, etcetera, etcetera, Like you know

1944
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:26,160
Speaker 1: what isn't produced just in time? Sorry, it isn't add

1945
01:50:26,240 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 1: right time. Yeah, they're they're they're they're not produced just

1946
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:31,599
Speaker 1: in time anymore because the supply chains falling apart. It's

1947
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:37,160
Speaker 1: that's what that is our promise about our sponsors is that, uh,

1948
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 1: they're they're not at all in time. Who knows when

1949
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:41,719
Speaker 1: they'll get your products to you. There's no way to tell.

1950
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 1: It's impossible to know. We're back, Yeah, we're back to

1951
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:50,080
Speaker 1: talk about how, you know, having having developed an entire

1952
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:53,760
Speaker 1: network of extremely inefficient supply chains that just absolutely suck

1953
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:56,519
Speaker 1: and don't make any sense. Uh, people tried to make

1954
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:59,840
Speaker 1: them efficient. And this this is where we go back

1955
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:06,360
Speaker 1: to Japan, because Japan, you know, I guess this is

1956
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:08,960
Speaker 1: this is this is the other Forks boomerang, which is

1957
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:11,639
Speaker 1: that you know, okay, so we we we industrialized Japan

1958
01:51:12,120 --> 01:51:15,240
Speaker 1: in order to like fighter colonial wars, right, but then

1959
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, this turns into this huge like Pikachu face

1960
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 1: moment when Japan suddenly starts like industrializing more efficiently than

1961
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: the US does. It's very funny. And then and writes

1962
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:28,599
Speaker 1: a bunch of books that are the premise of all

1963
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 1: of them. Is Japan scary? Yeah, it's very funny. Yeah,

1964
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, like this is interesting. Is this is an

1965
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 1: interesting thing here, which is that like all of the

1966
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 1: panic around China, there was exactly the same panic like

1967
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:45,439
Speaker 1: around Japan in the like the seventies, and it's exactly same,

1968
01:51:45,479 --> 01:51:48,920
Speaker 1: like right down to like a bunch of socialists going like, hey,

1969
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:51,519
Speaker 1: look this this is a model for anti capitalism. Like

1970
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: people people said that about the Japanese model, and it's

1971
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:55,920
Speaker 1: like it's it's all, it's all the same thing. It's

1972
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:58,840
Speaker 1: just it's just happening again. But you know what, what

1973
01:51:58,840 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 1: what what What Japan did, and specifically, what Toyota does

1974
01:52:02,120 --> 01:52:05,240
Speaker 1: is create this thing called the Toyota production system, which

1975
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: eventually becomes known as just in time production. And this

1976
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:12,200
Speaker 1: if you've read anything about sort of the modern supply

1977
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:15,400
Speaker 1: chain problems, you've almost certainly heard of just in time

1978
01:52:15,400 --> 01:52:18,560
Speaker 1: production or or leading production, and just in time and

1979
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:22,400
Speaker 1: lean production are technically difference, but the differences don't matter

1980
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 1: for us. So yeah, and and this this stuff is

1981
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:30,000
Speaker 1: derived from what Toyota was sort of doing in the

1982
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:35,479
Speaker 1: post war era. And basically the goal of it is

1983
01:52:36,920 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 1: you're you're never supposed to have any inventory that's just

1984
01:52:40,040 --> 01:52:43,040
Speaker 1: sitting there, so that the whole distant supposed to be

1985
01:52:43,080 --> 01:52:45,759
Speaker 1: constantly the whole system is supposed to be constantly in motion.

1986
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:47,679
Speaker 1: So you have parts come in, they get put into

1987
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:49,800
Speaker 1: their immediately get put into the production line and the

1988
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 1: finished products immediately shipped out to the stores. And you know,

1989
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:55,280
Speaker 1: the theory is that the stores are only going to

1990
01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 1: carry exactly enough product to meet demands. And it's supposed

1991
01:52:58,320 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 1: to be quote unquote flexible, which means that it can

1992
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:03,960
Speaker 1: react to shifts in consumer taste and demand by like

1993
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:07,400
Speaker 1: increasing or decreasing production, and it can't do this. This

1994
01:53:07,479 --> 01:53:09,400
Speaker 1: is what we've been seeing for the entirety of COVID,

1995
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:11,600
Speaker 1: which is that you know that this is this is

1996
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:14,160
Speaker 1: why every time there's a run of toilet paper, everyone

1997
01:53:14,240 --> 01:53:16,240
Speaker 1: runs out of toilet paper, because it turns out that

1998
01:53:16,240 --> 01:53:20,040
Speaker 1: these systems can't even a ten percent increase just completely

1999
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 1: obliterates this entire system and it just collapses and can't

2000
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:25,639
Speaker 1: produce enough toilet paper. Yeah, and again just because it's

2001
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:28,360
Speaker 1: expensive to store things. It's pricy. This is a big

2002
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,080
Speaker 1: part of like why actually, the John Deer strike, which

2003
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 1: has the potential to disrupt the status quote movement more

2004
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:39,360
Speaker 1: than any strike in recent history, um is so potent

2005
01:53:39,479 --> 01:53:43,519
Speaker 1: because John Deere tractors are kind of a necessary part

2006
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:45,960
Speaker 1: of the agriculture industry, not just their ability to sell

2007
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:49,120
Speaker 1: new tractors, but their ability to repair the extant tractors.

2008
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 1: Like if harvest season comes around and there's not spare

2009
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:55,240
Speaker 1: parts to repair tractors that break, like food doesn't get harvested,

2010
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:58,920
Speaker 1: it's a significant issue. John Deer. We'll talk more about

2011
01:53:58,920 --> 01:54:01,720
Speaker 1: this in another day. But like, not only did the

2012
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 1: most that they could do to squeeze their employees to

2013
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:07,879
Speaker 1: suck out pensions, to cut you know, expenditures on wages,

2014
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:11,880
Speaker 1: but they they set up their factories in such a

2015
01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:14,080
Speaker 1: way that there was no extra space, so they could

2016
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:16,759
Speaker 1: not scale up any of these factories to increase demand

2017
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:19,559
Speaker 1: when they needed to. So that now that John Deere's

2018
01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:22,400
Speaker 1: going on strike, if they lose a month of productivity,

2019
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:25,120
Speaker 1: they can't ever catch up. It's impossible because they can't

2020
01:54:25,160 --> 01:54:29,559
Speaker 1: actually expand the productive capacity of their factories. And because

2021
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 1: the strike is hitting, they didn't have any extra spare

2022
01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: parts lying around, So if ship gets broken, they can't

2023
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:39,000
Speaker 1: manufacture the parts necessary to keep tractors functioning in a

2024
01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 1: lot of American farms because they didn't store anything, because

2025
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:44,000
Speaker 1: that was not the most efficient thing for the economic

2026
01:54:44,040 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 1: bottom line of the CEO who gets a hundred and

2027
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:48,840
Speaker 1: sixty million dollars a year. And anyway, this is this

2028
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:50,520
Speaker 1: is the funny part about this whole thing, which is

2029
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:52,480
Speaker 1: that you know, okay, so this whole supply chain system

2030
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:57,640
Speaker 1: was based around just like destroying destroying the organized working class, right,

2031
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:01,800
Speaker 1: But it's like they were so successful at it that

2032
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 1: they've like turned around and fucked themselves with it because

2033
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 1: like you know, this this is this is the thing

2034
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:09,280
Speaker 1: about about the John Deer strike. Right. It used to

2035
01:55:09,320 --> 01:55:11,960
Speaker 1: be you know, back back back if you look at

2036
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:16,040
Speaker 1: like like how how the unions were broken in the eighties,

2037
01:55:16,120 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 1: or like if you look at like the giant like

2038
01:55:17,800 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 1: auto strikes you'd have in the seventies, right, and companies

2039
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:24,040
Speaker 1: still do this to this day, but like there worst

2040
01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 1: at it. The thing they would do is so okay,

2041
01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 1: So you you you know, if you're a company, you

2042
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 1: know roughly when a strike is gonna happen, right. And

2043
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:32,800
Speaker 1: the reason you know when a strike is gonna happen

2044
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:36,440
Speaker 1: is because in the US, like the way labor law

2045
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:39,000
Speaker 1: works is that like you can you can basically only

2046
01:55:39,080 --> 01:55:41,720
Speaker 1: strike like when a contract is up. I mean you

2047
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:45,280
Speaker 1: can do wildcats, but it's illegal. But you know, okay,

2048
01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:48,080
Speaker 1: so they knew that the audio unions, for example, we're

2049
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:49,720
Speaker 1: about to go we're going to go on strike. When

2050
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 1: when the contracts like was was coming up, and you know,

2051
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:55,000
Speaker 1: they'd have spies, and you can get a sense of like,

2052
01:55:55,800 --> 01:55:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so are are how likely are they

2053
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:02,760
Speaker 1: to do this strike? And you know so so that

2054
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:05,200
Speaker 1: that that lets you do things like build up an

2055
01:56:05,280 --> 01:56:08,120
Speaker 1: enormous sort of inventorio spare parts. It lets you build

2056
01:56:08,200 --> 01:56:10,120
Speaker 1: up an inventory of supplies, and it lets you build

2057
01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:12,760
Speaker 1: up you know it basically, it lets you build up

2058
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 1: the capacity you need to outlast a strike. But the

2059
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:18,240
Speaker 1: problem with just in times, they can't do that anymore

2060
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:21,360
Speaker 1: because yeah, they they've they've you know, they've they've completely

2061
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:25,400
Speaker 1: fucked themselves by by then the John Deer situation because

2062
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 1: they hadn't strike, the workers hadn't had gone on strikes

2063
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:30,800
Speaker 1: since eighties six. They've been putting funds into their strike

2064
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: survival fund for years, but the company had nothing like

2065
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:37,720
Speaker 1: has Um. It's rather and this is you know this,

2066
01:56:37,720 --> 01:56:42,360
Speaker 1: this is the other part of of of why everything

2067
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:44,960
Speaker 1: like good that's happening right now is happening is that

2068
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:51,000
Speaker 1: they they they you know, they everything has circled back

2069
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:54,080
Speaker 1: around and suddenly all of these companies are you know,

2070
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:56,560
Speaker 1: we are incredibly vulnerable to strikes again, because yeah, as

2071
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:59,720
Speaker 1: you're talking about the just in time production thing, it

2072
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:04,680
Speaker 1: all only works if if everything actually comes in on time, right,

2073
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:07,400
Speaker 1: Like if if if any if any individual part is late,

2074
01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:09,200
Speaker 1: the whole system starts to fall apart. And then and

2075
01:57:09,200 --> 01:57:12,200
Speaker 1: then you can't repair it. And you know, and there's

2076
01:57:12,240 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways that that this this this

2077
01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:18,120
Speaker 1: can be very bad. Um. You know, we've talked about

2078
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 1: the John we talked about the labor stuff. The other

2079
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,880
Speaker 1: big thing that's happening is COVID, which has happened and

2080
01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:27,800
Speaker 1: continues to happen and has killed off just enormous parts

2081
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 1: of the working class. I mean it's like four million

2082
01:57:31,320 --> 01:57:34,320
Speaker 1: dead worldwide or something. And again that that's also probably

2083
01:57:34,360 --> 01:57:37,160
Speaker 1: an undercount because that's just direct. Guess that's not like, yeah,

2084
01:57:37,200 --> 01:57:39,320
Speaker 1: it's probably like twice that it's i mean, we're looking

2085
01:57:39,320 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 1: at a minimum of seven in the US, and again

2086
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:46,600
Speaker 1: that's probably a million undercounted at least. Yeah, it's it's

2087
01:57:46,600 --> 01:57:49,200
Speaker 1: a horror show, right, And and the people they killed

2088
01:57:49,240 --> 01:57:53,000
Speaker 1: with that, you know, like especially in the initial phases,

2089
01:57:53,320 --> 01:57:55,080
Speaker 1: like it was just it was just that they took

2090
01:57:55,080 --> 01:57:58,640
Speaker 1: a chained chainsaw to the working class. And those are

2091
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who know that they're they're not replaceable.

2092
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:03,480
Speaker 1: They're they're very highly skilled and they do a bunch

2093
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:09,640
Speaker 1: of jobs that absolutely suck. And now you know, and

2094
01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:11,720
Speaker 1: one of one of the places that this this has

2095
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:14,200
Speaker 1: caused a bunch of problems is in the ports because

2096
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:17,240
Speaker 1: the other thing that this entire supply gamber relies on

2097
01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:20,400
Speaker 1: is being able to very quickly and cheaply moved parts

2098
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:23,920
Speaker 1: from you know, China to the US, from China to Mexico,

2099
01:58:23,960 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: from like Bangladesh too. Like symbolia, you have, you have,

2100
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:29,560
Speaker 1: you have, you have to be able to continuously like

2101
01:58:29,880 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 1: keep moving stuff around in in Yeah, you have to

2102
01:58:34,840 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 1: continuously keep moving ships around. And you also have to

2103
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:39,560
Speaker 1: be able to load noneload them. And we you know,

2104
01:58:39,600 --> 01:58:43,040
Speaker 1: we we we saw like there there was the that

2105
01:58:43,160 --> 01:58:45,960
Speaker 1: when that ship got stuck in the Suez. There is

2106
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:48,560
Speaker 1: that whole yeah that you know that that that was

2107
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:52,320
Speaker 1: sex asses where where when people couldn't get sex asses

2108
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:55,480
Speaker 1: because the world's supply of sex asses for months was

2109
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 1: on that one ship. Um, it was a real crisis

2110
01:58:58,840 --> 01:59:01,960
Speaker 1: for the sex ass community. Those are plastic ascis that

2111
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:05,880
Speaker 1: you have sex with if you're curious. Yeah, it is.

2112
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:12,280
Speaker 1: The world appears as an immense collection of commodities, some

2113
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,840
Speaker 1: of which are sex asses. Yeah, most of which, in

2114
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:19,920
Speaker 1: terms of the ones that matter, sex asses. Yes, sex

2115
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,360
Speaker 1: ass industrial complex is really the lynchpin of global capital.

2116
01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:25,880
Speaker 1: But please continue. Yeah, well, you know, but the sex

2117
01:59:25,920 --> 01:59:28,640
Speaker 1: assi indictual complex falls apart. And you know, and it's

2118
01:59:28,680 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 1: not just the ship being stuck in the sis like

2119
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:34,920
Speaker 1: made everything way worse, right, But it was very funny, Yeah,

2120
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 1: it was. It was extremely funny, but it's extremely funny.

2121
01:59:37,600 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 1: The part of the thing that is like not very

2122
01:59:39,080 --> 01:59:42,440
Speaker 1: funny is that, like, okay, so in order to getting

2123
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:44,160
Speaker 1: this to work right, you have to have a bunch

2124
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:47,839
Speaker 1: of longshoremen. You have to unload all of the ship mhm.

2125
01:59:48,440 --> 01:59:50,880
Speaker 1: And you know, one of one of the problems that

2126
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:52,880
Speaker 1: is that is happening in the sort of global supply

2127
01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:55,320
Speaker 1: chain right now is that the ships can't be unloaded

2128
01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:58,040
Speaker 1: fast enough. And part of this is like this job sucks,

2129
01:59:58,160 --> 01:59:59,720
Speaker 1: and people just a lot of people don't want to

2130
01:59:59,720 --> 02:00:02,320
Speaker 1: do it, and a lot of people died and in

2131
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:06,960
Speaker 1: the and it's causing this huge problem and and there's

2132
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:09,800
Speaker 1: and then there's there's another you know, if you want

2133
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:12,880
Speaker 1: to take like the macrospective about this, it's that this

2134
02:00:12,920 --> 02:00:15,080
Speaker 1: whole system is relying on logistics workers and so it

2135
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:18,440
Speaker 1: also needs you know, you need truck drivers. And we're

2136
02:00:18,440 --> 02:00:20,360
Speaker 1: coming back and you know in the US, is that

2137
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:22,280
Speaker 1: there's yeah, you know, there's there's a sort of a

2138
02:00:22,280 --> 02:00:24,840
Speaker 1: truck drivers now because again their job sucks and they've

2139
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:28,879
Speaker 1: been like just absolutely screwing these people over for decades

2140
02:00:28,880 --> 02:00:31,240
Speaker 1: and decades and decades now and turn into the subcontractors

2141
02:00:31,360 --> 02:00:34,760
Speaker 1: just not paying them, and you know, and and this

2142
02:00:34,920 --> 02:00:37,960
Speaker 1: and when you know, when the when the ports shut down,

2143
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:39,720
Speaker 1: like not even shut down, like when when the ports

2144
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:44,200
Speaker 1: are behind unloading stuff and when the trucks like that

2145
02:00:44,200 --> 02:00:45,960
Speaker 1: are supposed to be moving this stuff, they aren't off

2146
02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:48,760
Speaker 1: of them, and like the cost of that increases, it

2147
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:52,560
Speaker 1: throws off the whole system. And that's that's another big

2148
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 1: part of like why this whole thing is is sort

2149
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:01,080
Speaker 1: of imploding. And and it's interesting because I remember this.

2150
02:01:01,160 --> 02:01:05,040
Speaker 1: There was like a decade where like every other article

2151
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:07,280
Speaker 1: we'll be talking about how they were going to like

2152
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:11,040
Speaker 1: automate like truck driving. It was like the truck drivers

2153
02:01:11,040 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 1: are all going to go out of business because they're

2154
02:01:12,240 --> 02:01:14,360
Speaker 1: going to automated. It just never happened at all. And

2155
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:16,560
Speaker 1: say the same thing with with there. You know, there's

2156
02:01:17,040 --> 02:01:19,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been some port automization, but like not

2157
02:01:19,600 --> 02:01:23,160
Speaker 1: on the scale that you know, actually does anything. And

2158
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 1: part of the reason for that is, you know, I

2159
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:28,360
Speaker 1: was talking about people not investing in research developments. Yeah,

2160
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:30,320
Speaker 1: so the biggest people who aren't doing that are the

2161
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:33,720
Speaker 1: shipping companies. And that's a good time because the shipping

2162
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:37,560
Speaker 1: cup basically like container shipping, has been taken over by

2163
02:01:37,800 --> 02:01:41,160
Speaker 1: was essentially just like a monopoly of two companies. And

2164
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:44,360
Speaker 1: those two companies make just an indescribable amount of money.

2165
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:47,480
Speaker 1: They have like a thousand percent profits and they just

2166
02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:50,200
Speaker 1: pay it all out as dividends. And so they're not

2167
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, they're not investing in any port infrastructure, they're

2168
02:01:53,360 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 1: not investing automation. They're just pocketing the money. And that

2169
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:57,480
Speaker 1: means that you know, we have all that and they're

2170
02:01:57,720 --> 02:02:00,000
Speaker 1: they're spending in in the case of John Deere, which

2171
02:02:00,120 --> 02:02:01,920
Speaker 1: keep going back to a bunch of money lobbying to

2172
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:06,080
Speaker 1: make it illegal for farmers to repair uh their tractors. Yeah, yeah,

2173
02:02:06,120 --> 02:02:08,520
Speaker 1: they're there. You know, they they figured they figured out

2174
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:11,200
Speaker 1: that like the the easiest way to make money is

2175
02:02:11,320 --> 02:02:13,160
Speaker 1: just get the state to shake people down for you.

2176
02:02:14,120 --> 02:02:17,480
Speaker 1: It's like, fuck like investing in in making anything that

2177
02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:21,000
Speaker 1: we have better. Let's just you know, like let's just

2178
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:25,080
Speaker 1: turn the state into a deck collector. And and it's

2179
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:27,640
Speaker 1: interesting because so this, this is the part of of

2180
02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:30,160
Speaker 1: the supply chain crisis that like Biden has been focusing on.

2181
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:34,160
Speaker 1: But Biden's plan, Biden's plans great. Biden's plan is literally

2182
02:02:34,240 --> 02:02:39,840
Speaker 1: make the longshoremen work harder. So his plan is here,

2183
02:02:39,880 --> 02:02:43,760
Speaker 1: we go, there, we go, there, we building back better. Baby. Yeah,

2184
02:02:43,920 --> 02:02:46,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna make We're gonna keep the ports

2185
02:02:46,280 --> 02:02:48,760
Speaker 1: open twenty four hours a day, seven days a week,

2186
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 1: and like make people work weekends now. And then he

2187
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:56,760
Speaker 1: also got FedEx, Walmart and Ups to do twenty four

2188
02:02:56,760 --> 02:02:59,680
Speaker 1: hour or seven day a week shipping. So yeah, the

2189
02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:03,120
Speaker 1: sally is literally just like feed more workers into a

2190
02:03:03,200 --> 02:03:07,160
Speaker 1: grinder and make them work longer, which is which is

2191
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:11,080
Speaker 1: great and and you know will not in any way backfire. No,

2192
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:13,200
Speaker 1: it's fine. I don't even think we should be talking

2193
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 1: about it. No, it's great, it's gonna, it's it's yeah,

2194
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:18,760
Speaker 1: it's you know but I get like this is the thing,

2195
02:03:18,840 --> 02:03:21,360
Speaker 1: Like this won't work and it can't and the reason

2196
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:22,880
Speaker 1: it won't work is that, like part of the reason

2197
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:26,720
Speaker 1: there's a shortage is that you know, it's it's not

2198
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:28,560
Speaker 1: it's not just about the like the fact that people

2199
02:03:28,560 --> 02:03:32,360
Speaker 1: aren't paying enough. It's about the fact that these jobs

2200
02:03:33,040 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 1: are just awful. Like you have people, you have people

2201
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:40,480
Speaker 1: working like twelve hours shifts that start at like six

2202
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:42,720
Speaker 1: am and then they have to wake another twelve hour

2203
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:44,120
Speaker 1: shift in hours later, and that these people have them

2204
02:03:44,120 --> 02:03:45,640
Speaker 1: can do this over and over and over again and

2205
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: it's well, and they don't like the way that these

2206
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 1: shifts are usually put on them is that, like you'll

2207
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:52,360
Speaker 1: find out when you come in that instead of working

2208
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:56,480
Speaker 1: six am to four pm or whatever, they're actually gonna

2209
02:03:56,480 --> 02:03:58,240
Speaker 1: need you to stay until eight and then they're gonna

2210
02:03:58,240 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: need you to come in. By the way, you're gonna

2211
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:01,600
Speaker 1: need to come in like two hours early tomorrow. So

2212
02:04:01,640 --> 02:04:04,320
Speaker 1: you're realized that like in between your two shifts, you

2213
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 1: have a total of eight hours to get home and sleep.

2214
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:11,960
Speaker 1: And if you say no, uh uh, well, the idea

2215
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:13,400
Speaker 1: is that if you say no, like you won't have

2216
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:16,040
Speaker 1: the job. It's required now, the reality is that most

2217
02:04:16,040 --> 02:04:18,600
Speaker 1: of these companies are also pretty desperate to have these workers,

2218
02:04:18,600 --> 02:04:21,520
Speaker 1: and a lot of these manufacturing and packing firms, it

2219
02:04:21,560 --> 02:04:23,600
Speaker 1: takes time to train people up and then they quit

2220
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:26,360
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks in because the work is miserable

2221
02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:30,480
Speaker 1: and the schedule is fucking miserable. Um, and it's yeah,

2222
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 1: it's all, it's it's it's it's simultaneously like deeply inhuman,

2223
02:04:35,080 --> 02:04:37,320
Speaker 1: but also is leading to a situation. There's a reason

2224
02:04:37,360 --> 02:04:39,480
Speaker 1: why there's so many strikes on right now is that

2225
02:04:39,520 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 1: there is opportunity because in sort of the chasing of

2226
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:47,320
Speaker 1: short term profits, a lot of these fucking oligarchs have

2227
02:04:47,840 --> 02:04:51,960
Speaker 1: exposed themselves in a in a pretty vulnerable position. Yeah,

2228
02:04:52,080 --> 02:04:55,320
Speaker 1: and I think you know this, this is coming back

2229
02:04:55,360 --> 02:05:00,760
Speaker 1: to a sort of the other way that when when

2230
02:05:00,760 --> 02:05:03,520
Speaker 1: there was a crisis in in the seventies, the other

2231
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:06,000
Speaker 1: way they saw this was just authoritarianism, right, it was

2232
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, is this is the pinos a solution, right, like, oh,

2233
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:12,440
Speaker 1: like workers are using control compromids, Okay, we'll just shoot them,

2234
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:16,000
Speaker 1: right and yeah, and yeah, and this is you know,

2235
02:05:16,040 --> 02:05:19,560
Speaker 1: they're they're they're finally running into a point where you know,

2236
02:05:19,880 --> 02:05:21,520
Speaker 1: this is this is the solution they've been trying to

2237
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:24,440
Speaker 1: do now with with with this crisis is you know,

2238
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:27,720
Speaker 1: the the they're relying on the fact that just the

2239
02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:31,200
Speaker 1: workplace is just indescribably authoritarian. I mean, it's it's like

2240
02:05:31,240 --> 02:05:34,800
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a dictatorship on a scale that is

2241
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:39,839
Speaker 1: like like even to like the most despotic absolute monarch

2242
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:44,440
Speaker 1: is just like unimaginable, Like your boss gets to control

2243
02:05:44,960 --> 02:05:48,040
Speaker 1: like when you ship, like they get a control, when

2244
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:50,520
Speaker 1: you eat, they get a control exactly what you're doing,

2245
02:05:51,160 --> 02:05:53,320
Speaker 1: like at all times, they get control when you do it,

2246
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:56,400
Speaker 1: they get a control like when the next time you're

2247
02:05:56,400 --> 02:05:58,280
Speaker 1: going to do it is. They don't even have to

2248
02:05:58,280 --> 02:06:00,360
Speaker 1: tell you when it's going to be and tell like

2249
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:04,360
Speaker 1: you show up and you know, for the this is

2250
02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:08,080
Speaker 1: this is this has been the gamble for for you know, capitalism,

2251
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:10,200
Speaker 1: the tire existence, which is that like you just have

2252
02:06:10,240 --> 02:06:12,200
Speaker 1: to take this and eat ship or they get to

2253
02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:14,200
Speaker 1: take away your ability to eat, get medical care and

2254
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:18,120
Speaker 1: have a place to leave to live. But that's not

2255
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:21,720
Speaker 1: true anymore. Like you can just say no, you can

2256
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:24,360
Speaker 1: tell them to funk off. You can you know you can,

2257
02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:27,120
Speaker 1: you can you can organize a union. You can just

2258
02:06:27,440 --> 02:06:31,720
Speaker 1: fucking just leave your job, like, just leave it, fucking

2259
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:33,880
Speaker 1: walk out. And this is why we focus. I mean,

2260
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:36,120
Speaker 1: this is number one why within the context of unions,

2261
02:06:36,160 --> 02:06:38,400
Speaker 1: strike funds are so important, but also why mutual aid

2262
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:41,200
Speaker 1: is so important. Is it it potentially when organized well enough,

2263
02:06:41,240 --> 02:06:43,960
Speaker 1: provides people with the option to like, well, how are

2264
02:06:44,000 --> 02:06:46,360
Speaker 1: you going to feed yourself? Well, there's people in my

2265
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 1: community who want to make sure that I'm fed because

2266
02:06:48,480 --> 02:06:51,600
Speaker 1: they believe in what I'm striking for. Um, that's the

2267
02:06:51,640 --> 02:06:54,120
Speaker 1: promise of all of that. That's the practical behind the

2268
02:06:54,200 --> 02:07:00,280
Speaker 1: kind of high minded you know anarchists, uh, just you

2269
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:03,560
Speaker 1: know whatever. Theorizing is the ability that like, well this

2270
02:07:03,640 --> 02:07:08,400
Speaker 1: actually is a weapon too. Yeah, and I think you

2271
02:07:08,400 --> 02:07:12,720
Speaker 1: know what else is a weapon? Chris are product. I

2272
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 1: hope we're not being sponsored some I hope we are. Chris. Look,

2273
02:07:17,120 --> 02:07:19,840
Speaker 1: I've I've said before for weapons, I'll read any ad

2274
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:22,000
Speaker 1: for a weapons manufacturer as long as they send me

2275
02:07:22,040 --> 02:07:25,360
Speaker 1: some weapons. So come on, guys, get on it. You

2276
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 1: could uh, you could be you could be in the

2277
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:31,520
Speaker 1: middle of this conversation raytheon, you know, send me a

2278
02:07:31,560 --> 02:07:34,360
Speaker 1: couple of missile guidance chips. Lockheed Martin. You know you

2279
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:37,000
Speaker 1: want to give me an F thirty five, we'll we'll

2280
02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:40,080
Speaker 1: plug you. You know. That's what's that's that's the deal.

2281
02:07:40,560 --> 02:07:44,680
Speaker 1: That's how it works. Baby. All right, we're back. Hopefully,

2282
02:07:44,680 --> 02:07:47,200
Speaker 1: hopefully you have now heard the advertisement for knife missile

2283
02:07:47,200 --> 02:07:50,520
Speaker 1: to knife missile harder now with like five knives that

2284
02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:54,400
Speaker 1: I am not making. It actually exists. Yeah. People keep

2285
02:07:54,440 --> 02:07:56,720
Speaker 1: being surprised that the R nine X is a real thing.

2286
02:07:56,840 --> 02:07:59,720
Speaker 1: And yeah, but there's another one. There's there's one with

2287
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:02,480
Speaker 1: more knives. They put more knives. We do you You're

2288
02:08:02,480 --> 02:08:06,640
Speaker 1: not gonna look again, you can't. It's like with Apple products, right,

2289
02:08:07,480 --> 02:08:10,400
Speaker 1: planned obsolescence is a critical You have to You can't

2290
02:08:10,440 --> 02:08:13,480
Speaker 1: just rest on your laurels. You're gonna run out of money.

2291
02:08:13,680 --> 02:08:15,400
Speaker 1: So you've gotta make another knife missile with a couple

2292
02:08:15,400 --> 02:08:19,600
Speaker 1: of more knives. Yeah, just keep keep adding knives. Nothing

2293
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:22,640
Speaker 1: can ever go wrong. Do not ask any questions about

2294
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:27,800
Speaker 1: why you're developing knife missiles. Send me one and like

2295
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:30,520
Speaker 1: a drone or three. Swear to God, I'll use it

2296
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 1: for legal purposes. Yeah. So, I guess the last thing

2297
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:40,360
Speaker 1: that I that's that's really interesting about this moment that

2298
02:08:41,120 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 1: doesn't usually happen is that you know, okay, so if

2299
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:48,400
Speaker 1: if you, if you, if you, if you, you read

2300
02:08:48,440 --> 02:08:50,760
Speaker 1: your very basic marks, right. One of the things Mark

2301
02:08:50,840 --> 02:08:52,640
Speaker 1: talks about is that there's this thing called the reserve

2302
02:08:52,760 --> 02:08:54,600
Speaker 1: Army of labor, which is it's just like, you know,

2303
02:08:54,640 --> 02:08:56,680
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of people who are just always unemployed

2304
02:08:57,200 --> 02:09:01,080
Speaker 1: and they get along by doing sort of like odd jobs,

2305
02:09:01,320 --> 02:09:05,320
Speaker 1: like you know, like my, my, my quintessential person for

2306
02:09:05,360 --> 02:09:07,040
Speaker 1: this is like if you ever go on a subway,

2307
02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:09,560
Speaker 1: there's you know, it's it's the guy selling candy bars

2308
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:12,600
Speaker 1: in the subway. Yeah, right, it's people who quasi legal

2309
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they just kind of like doing whatever,

2310
02:09:17,200 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, we call them. In the West Coast, you

2311
02:09:19,960 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 1: have a lot of those, like yeah, people who tream

2312
02:09:23,240 --> 02:09:25,160
Speaker 1: marijuana for a couple of months and then just kind

2313
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:27,400
Speaker 1: of like crashing you know, camp sites the rest of

2314
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:28,720
Speaker 1: the year or whatever. Like yeah, there's a bunch of

2315
02:09:28,760 --> 02:09:31,120
Speaker 1: those folks for sure. Yeah. And you know, and like

2316
02:09:31,160 --> 02:09:32,800
Speaker 1: the the the number of these people who have been

2317
02:09:32,840 --> 02:09:35,240
Speaker 1: just like kicked out of like the formal labor system

2318
02:09:35,240 --> 02:09:39,080
Speaker 1: has been increasing for a long time. But what's interesting

2319
02:09:39,080 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 1: about this moment is that you know, every every strike

2320
02:09:42,840 --> 02:09:45,720
Speaker 1: you see, has a second strike behind it, and that

2321
02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:49,040
Speaker 1: strike is the informal general strike, which is just again

2322
02:09:49,080 --> 02:09:52,720
Speaker 1: people just quitting their jobs and leaving. And you have

2323
02:09:52,800 --> 02:09:55,200
Speaker 1: this weird moment where where normally the sort of reserve

2324
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:57,880
Speaker 1: army of labor is this thing that like capitalism can

2325
02:09:57,880 --> 02:09:59,720
Speaker 1: always sort of rely on as a way to sort

2326
02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:02,640
Speaker 1: of solve its problems because it's like, oh, well, all right,

2327
02:10:02,680 --> 02:10:04,080
Speaker 1: if if you're not gonna do this job, we can

2328
02:10:04,080 --> 02:10:08,000
Speaker 1: bring another person. But you know this, this is a

2329
02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:10,720
Speaker 1: weird moment where like the reserve army of labor is

2330
02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:15,560
Speaker 1: like fighting on our side. Mm. And the fact that

2331
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:19,160
Speaker 1: all of these people are just like, you know, they're

2332
02:10:19,160 --> 02:10:22,320
Speaker 1: seeing the just incredible authoritarianism of these workplaces that's just

2333
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:26,080
Speaker 1: horrific abuse. The fact that you know they're they're being

2334
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:28,680
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases just asked to show up

2335
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:34,040
Speaker 1: and die and they're saying no is a really sort

2336
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:37,960
Speaker 1: of is a really incredibly powerful thing. And when when

2337
02:10:37,960 --> 02:10:39,800
Speaker 1: when you add that to the fact that you know,

2338
02:10:39,880 --> 02:10:42,080
Speaker 1: all these companies have completely screwed themselves with how they

2339
02:10:42,080 --> 02:10:43,880
Speaker 1: designed the supply chains or it's it's all it's all

2340
02:10:43,880 --> 02:10:47,120
Speaker 1: come back around and suddenly all all the supply chain,

2341
02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:49,760
Speaker 1: stuff that they carefully laid out over decades and decades

2342
02:10:49,880 --> 02:10:52,560
Speaker 1: decades is a way to just like break the union

2343
02:10:52,600 --> 02:10:54,680
Speaker 1: movement and make sure nobody ever asked for more wages.

2344
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:57,880
Speaker 1: You know. It's it's it's it's it's been revealed to

2345
02:10:57,880 --> 02:11:01,720
Speaker 1: be incredibly fragile and you know, week to our attack,

2346
02:11:02,440 --> 02:11:06,520
Speaker 1: and that leads us, I think to this other tension

2347
02:11:06,760 --> 02:11:09,800
Speaker 1: in Biden's plan to sort of like revive the economy,

2348
02:11:09,840 --> 02:11:14,600
Speaker 1: which is that so the US technically speaking has this

2349
02:11:14,760 --> 02:11:18,880
Speaker 1: like very large central planning capability, but it only has

2350
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:23,080
Speaker 1: it to like build weapons. So you know, like the

2351
02:11:23,880 --> 02:11:25,920
Speaker 1: army has this incredible ability like that. There there's a

2352
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:29,160
Speaker 1: lot of bullets, you know it despite the huge stress

2353
02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:32,320
Speaker 1: on the bullets supply chain, it really has scaled. You know,

2354
02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:36,400
Speaker 1: the prices have increased, but we're we're still still still

2355
02:11:36,440 --> 02:11:40,080
Speaker 1: getting bullets. America is great at making bullets. Yeah, it's

2356
02:11:40,160 --> 02:11:44,320
Speaker 1: less great at keeping tractors working, but it'll be a problem. Yeah.

2357
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:46,080
Speaker 1: Then you're like even if you remember at the beginning

2358
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:48,080
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, it was like the US just couldn't

2359
02:11:48,120 --> 02:11:51,160
Speaker 1: produce masks, like we said, we we never we never

2360
02:11:51,240 --> 02:11:54,080
Speaker 1: like did that, right, Like that like the government never

2361
02:11:54,120 --> 02:11:56,000
Speaker 1: at any point was like we're just gonna make mass

2362
02:11:56,080 --> 02:11:59,080
Speaker 1: given the people. They just never did it. And so

2363
02:11:59,200 --> 02:12:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, our mass supply all those quy tions suck.

2364
02:12:01,400 --> 02:12:04,360
Speaker 1: And the only way that like the states can intervene

2365
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:06,880
Speaker 1: and get the supply chains to work is by doing

2366
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:09,400
Speaker 1: one of two things. It's by either doing a thing

2367
02:12:09,480 --> 02:12:12,680
Speaker 1: Biden was doing, which is just go to a bunch

2368
02:12:12,680 --> 02:12:14,400
Speaker 1: of companies and tell them to make all of their

2369
02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:17,760
Speaker 1: workers work harder, which is the thing that like, you know,

2370
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:20,640
Speaker 1: totally won't backfire or explode in his face. And then

2371
02:12:20,640 --> 02:12:26,080
Speaker 1: the second thing is for Biden basically to like do

2372
02:12:26,160 --> 02:12:28,840
Speaker 1: all this saber rattling about how we have to have

2373
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:32,120
Speaker 1: like medical supply chains in the US because national defense

2374
02:12:32,200 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 1: or something, and that's the second thing he's trying to do.

2375
02:12:35,880 --> 02:12:40,560
Speaker 1: But you know that just that just makes the problem worse,

2376
02:12:40,680 --> 02:12:43,040
Speaker 1: right because once you, once you lose the ability to outsource,

2377
02:12:43,120 --> 02:12:45,360
Speaker 1: you you lose the hammer even beating the unions with

2378
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:49,480
Speaker 1: and so you know, all all of the sort of

2379
02:12:51,080 --> 02:12:54,000
Speaker 1: all of the tendencies that are you know, making things

2380
02:12:54,240 --> 02:13:00,280
Speaker 1: like bad and scary right now are also weirdly making

2381
02:13:00,400 --> 02:13:04,320
Speaker 1: this you know the fact that prices are rising right,

2382
02:13:04,440 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 1: the fact that there's all these shortages, it's it's it's

2383
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:16,120
Speaker 1: making this like the best moment two you know, it's

2384
02:13:16,160 --> 02:13:18,280
Speaker 1: it's it's making this the best moment that and that

2385
02:13:18,360 --> 02:13:22,120
Speaker 1: anyone's had in ages to actually try to make something better. Yeah,

2386
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:24,640
Speaker 1: and and and the important thing is we're starting to

2387
02:13:24,640 --> 02:13:27,840
Speaker 1: see it happen. And yeah, and we're we're we're we're

2388
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:30,480
Speaker 1: gonna talk more about St. October and sort of the

2389
02:13:30,520 --> 02:13:33,839
Speaker 1: strike wave and the coming you know, weeks and months.

2390
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:36,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're gonna we're gonna be hitting this pretty hard,

2391
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:38,800
Speaker 1: even just next week. Um, we have a lot of

2392
02:13:38,840 --> 02:13:40,600
Speaker 1: stuff in the pipeline. Kind of wish we've gotten to

2393
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:43,240
Speaker 1: it earlier, but there's a lot of stuff to talk

2394
02:13:43,280 --> 02:13:46,720
Speaker 1: about in the world happening that that's within our milieu.

2395
02:13:46,840 --> 02:13:49,920
Speaker 1: It turns out when you're when you're specific focus is

2396
02:13:49,920 --> 02:13:53,480
Speaker 1: things falling apart, Uh, you're always behind uncovering all the

2397
02:13:53,520 --> 02:13:56,600
Speaker 1: things that are falling on the mark. But I think

2398
02:13:56,600 --> 02:14:00,160
Speaker 1: it is a good time to to drive this to

2399
02:14:00,280 --> 02:14:03,880
Speaker 1: a close, to drag this episode out behind the farm

2400
02:14:04,120 --> 02:14:06,520
Speaker 1: the barn, and and and shoot it and bury it

2401
02:14:06,520 --> 02:14:09,200
Speaker 1: in a shallow grave and and break its bones with

2402
02:14:09,240 --> 02:14:13,640
Speaker 1: the hammers that the police can't identify it. Chris, Um,

2403
02:14:13,760 --> 02:14:16,920
Speaker 1: thank you for putting this together. I got anything anything

2404
02:14:16,920 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: else to say? Uh, quit your job, you or you

2405
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:25,120
Speaker 1: and or unionize your workplace and or take it over

2406
02:14:25,160 --> 02:14:28,440
Speaker 1: and run it yourselves, because Lord knows, the people who

2407
02:14:28,520 --> 02:14:31,360
Speaker 1: are telling you what to do just literally do not

2408
02:14:31,560 --> 02:14:37,600
Speaker 1: care if you die. Yeah, and I mean with with that, sorry, no, no,

2409
02:14:37,600 --> 02:14:41,040
Speaker 1: no no, I was just gonna Uh, I don't know

2410
02:14:41,040 --> 02:14:42,760
Speaker 1: what I was gonna do, Chris, I don't know what

2411
02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:44,960
Speaker 1: I was gonna do. Do do Go go do something.

2412
02:14:45,200 --> 02:14:48,320
Speaker 1: You know you're you're listening to things, Go do something. Yeah,

2413
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:51,320
Speaker 1: and and yeah, and if you want to listen to us,

2414
02:14:51,440 --> 02:14:58,320
Speaker 1: do more things. We are allegedly allegedly we we we

2415
02:14:58,360 --> 02:15:01,840
Speaker 1: are at cool zone media on the Twitter and and

2416
02:15:01,920 --> 02:15:05,560
Speaker 1: the You can't prove that in court, it's true. Good luck,

2417
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:07,200
Speaker 1: good luck to them and trying to forgere if that

2418
02:15:07,280 --> 02:15:22,120
Speaker 1: we did this. Yeah, that's right. Motherfucker's all right. Uh

2419
02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:25,400
Speaker 1: uh I call the Union Hall as his amount of

2420
02:15:25,440 --> 02:15:28,120
Speaker 1: life and death. I think these people of planning to

2421
02:15:28,240 --> 02:15:33,080
Speaker 1: kill Dr King. On April four, Dr Martin Luther King

2422
02:15:33,120 --> 02:15:36,000
Speaker 1: was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty criminal named

2423
02:15:36,040 --> 02:15:38,960
Speaker 1: James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled guilty to the

2424
02:15:39,040 --> 02:15:41,240
Speaker 1: crime and spent the rest of his life in prison.

2425
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:47,560
Speaker 1: Case closed right James hil Ray was upon for the

2426
02:15:47,640 --> 02:15:52,000
Speaker 1: official story. The authorities would parade all we found a

2427
02:15:52,080 --> 02:15:55,000
Speaker 1: gun the James L. Ray bought in Birmingham the killed

2428
02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:58,840
Speaker 1: Dr King, Except it wasn't the gun that killed Dr King.

2429
02:15:59,320 --> 02:16:02,080
Speaker 1: One of the problems that came out when I got

2430
02:16:02,160 --> 02:16:06,240
Speaker 1: the Ray case was that some of the evidence, as

2431
02:16:06,240 --> 02:16:09,960
Speaker 1: far as I was concerned, did not match the circumstances.

2432
02:16:10,480 --> 02:16:14,040
Speaker 1: This is the MLK tapes. The first episodes are available now.

2433
02:16:14,520 --> 02:16:17,600
Speaker 1: Listen on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or

2434
02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:22,360
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Give us over attention. We

2435
02:16:22,360 --> 02:16:25,480
Speaker 1: need everything you've got fast. Waiting on Reparations would be

2436
02:16:25,560 --> 02:16:29,600
Speaker 1: the podcast. Tune in every Thursday, politics and wordplay. We

2437
02:16:29,680 --> 02:16:31,560
Speaker 1: fight for the people because they got us in the

2438
02:16:31,560 --> 02:16:34,520
Speaker 1: worst way. From the Hill Cooper, the bomb bay Ton,

2439
02:16:35,080 --> 02:16:37,400
Speaker 1: from the left on Clay to what the neo kanse

2440
02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:41,039
Speaker 1: Every Thursday, the heavy conversation and to break us off

2441
02:16:41,040 --> 02:16:45,160
Speaker 1: with some break because we're waiting. Listen to Waiting on

2442
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:48,440
Speaker 1: Reparations on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or

2443
02:16:48,440 --> 02:16:53,280
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Conquer your new year's resolution

2444
02:16:53,440 --> 02:16:56,760
Speaker 1: to be more productive with the Before Breakfast podcast. In

2445
02:16:56,840 --> 02:17:01,160
Speaker 1: each bite sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert

2446
02:17:01,320 --> 02:17:03,840
Speaker 1: Laura vander Can teaches you how to make the most

2447
02:17:03,840 --> 02:17:06,760
Speaker 1: of your time both at work and at home. These

2448
02:17:06,760 --> 02:17:09,880
Speaker 1: are the practical suggestions you need to get more done

2449
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:12,600
Speaker 1: with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our body

2450
02:17:12,760 --> 02:17:15,760
Speaker 1: strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental

2451
02:17:15,840 --> 02:17:19,840
Speaker 1: equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to Before Breakfast wherever you

2452
02:17:19,879 --> 02:17:31,720
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Excellent work, Chris, that's good. That's good.

2453
02:17:31,760 --> 02:17:34,200
Speaker 1: That's the kind of a tonal grunting that people have

2454
02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:37,480
Speaker 1: come to express respect from the introductions of my podcast.

2455
02:17:38,480 --> 02:17:40,560
Speaker 1: I was hoping it wouldn't be that, but then it

2456
02:17:40,680 --> 02:17:46,760
Speaker 1: was so bad that it was great thrill. That's our brand.

2457
02:17:46,879 --> 02:17:50,760
Speaker 1: Now it can't be anything else. We've We've established it. Look,

2458
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:53,720
Speaker 1: nobody else is doing that. The Cometown guys, I assume

2459
02:17:53,800 --> 02:17:57,480
Speaker 1: aren't a totally grunting to start their podcast. I don't know, actually,

2460
02:17:57,560 --> 02:18:00,880
Speaker 1: but I assume not. What is the this podcast? I

2461
02:18:00,879 --> 02:18:04,440
Speaker 1: guess this is just how we start. It could happen.

2462
02:18:04,480 --> 02:18:07,400
Speaker 1: Here is a podcast you don't sound like you believe

2463
02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:14,960
Speaker 1: it enthusiastically, Chris with feeling. This is a podcast happening here.

2464
02:18:15,440 --> 02:18:19,720
Speaker 1: That yeah, excellent, that's how we do it. Okay, what

2465
02:18:19,720 --> 02:18:22,360
Speaker 1: are we talking about today? Well, one of the things

2466
02:18:22,400 --> 02:18:25,680
Speaker 1: that is happening here, as we have discussed briefly in

2467
02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:30,680
Speaker 1: previous episodes, is a bunch of strikes. And with us

2468
02:18:30,680 --> 02:18:33,760
Speaker 1: today to talk about one of these stripes, specifically the

2469
02:18:33,800 --> 02:18:38,039
Speaker 1: Collogue strike. Is Mel Buer, an independent researcher, educator, and

2470
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:41,680
Speaker 1: freelance journalists based in Omaha, Nebraska, where this particular strike

2471
02:18:41,800 --> 02:18:45,040
Speaker 1: is taking place, who has done done a lot of

2472
02:18:45,160 --> 02:18:50,039
Speaker 1: journalism previously on the local Protestant uprising the street and

2473
02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:56,480
Speaker 1: is also researching and writing a book on alternative media. Hi. Hello,

2474
02:18:57,200 --> 02:19:01,400
Speaker 1: we welcome to the show Strikes Strikes apparently is what's up?

2475
02:19:01,400 --> 02:19:07,520
Speaker 1: It is? It is Strictober. We're doing strikes strike wave baby. Ye.

2476
02:19:09,240 --> 02:19:12,520
Speaker 1: So this this specific strike, Um, why don't can you

2477
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:16,040
Speaker 1: can you walk us through a bit about how we

2478
02:19:16,080 --> 02:19:20,880
Speaker 1: got to the point where this Kellogg factory is on strike? Um? Well,

2479
02:19:20,959 --> 02:19:25,440
Speaker 1: first off, it's four plants. It's all for American Kellogg

2480
02:19:25,520 --> 02:19:29,800
Speaker 1: cereal plants have gone on strike. Um, the workers and

2481
02:19:29,840 --> 02:19:33,840
Speaker 1: these plants are represented by the bakery, confectionery tobacco workers

2482
02:19:33,840 --> 02:19:37,440
Speaker 1: in grain Miller's International Union. I do love that bakriyes

2483
02:19:37,560 --> 02:19:41,480
Speaker 1: and tobacco workers are in the same union. Yeah that's

2484
02:19:41,560 --> 02:19:46,720
Speaker 1: rat Yeah yeah. So UM their contract was up for

2485
02:19:46,800 --> 02:19:52,800
Speaker 1: renegotiation in actually UM and UM due to a series

2486
02:19:52,840 --> 02:19:57,680
Speaker 1: of weird things happening, they pushed the negotiations to UM.

2487
02:19:57,720 --> 02:20:02,920
Speaker 1: They renegotiate their contract every five years, UM and at

2488
02:20:02,959 --> 02:20:09,280
Speaker 1: stake this year UM was a sort of pushing back

2489
02:20:09,320 --> 02:20:13,080
Speaker 1: against a recently introduced to tier employment system that they

2490
02:20:13,440 --> 02:20:19,240
Speaker 1: company sort of strong armed the union into, which essentially,

2491
02:20:19,720 --> 02:20:23,600
Speaker 1: UH is not it's not a good deal for anyone. UM.

2492
02:20:23,640 --> 02:20:27,879
Speaker 1: In they pushed in this sort of two tier system

2493
02:20:28,000 --> 02:20:31,760
Speaker 1: where one tier is a lower transitional tier and one

2494
02:20:31,760 --> 02:20:36,600
Speaker 1: tier is a legacy or full time employee tier. UM.

2495
02:20:36,600 --> 02:20:38,600
Speaker 1: And what it is is that you know, it amounts

2496
02:20:38,640 --> 02:20:48,400
Speaker 1: to a difference of twelve bucks an hour and less benefits. Yes, yes, UM.

2497
02:20:48,480 --> 02:20:51,720
Speaker 1: Dan Osborne recently did an interview with Max Salvarez at

2498
02:20:51,720 --> 02:20:54,000
Speaker 1: Working People podcast and he really kind of talked about

2499
02:20:54,040 --> 02:20:57,640
Speaker 1: exactly what was going on there. UM. And you know,

2500
02:20:57,640 --> 02:21:00,000
Speaker 1: there's fourteen d people who work in four plants there

2501
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:04,440
Speaker 1: is about four employees at the Omaha plant, which has

2502
02:21:04,440 --> 02:21:08,480
Speaker 1: been around for decades. And UM, Essentially, what this tier

2503
02:21:08,520 --> 02:21:13,760
Speaker 1: system does is it's capped at their union workforce, and

2504
02:21:13,800 --> 02:21:17,800
Speaker 1: the whole idea is as these full time employees retire

2505
02:21:18,080 --> 02:21:21,200
Speaker 1: or quit, then these transitional employees will sort of be

2506
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:25,480
Speaker 1: funneled into the full time tier. Right over the last

2507
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:29,480
Speaker 1: five years, that hasn't really happened really at all. Um.

2508
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:31,840
Speaker 1: It was a bad deal from the start according to

2509
02:21:31,879 --> 02:21:34,520
Speaker 1: many of the workers who sort of felt like they,

2510
02:21:34,720 --> 02:21:36,959
Speaker 1: you know, they were backed into a wall because Kellogg's

2511
02:21:37,080 --> 02:21:39,360
Speaker 1: was threatening to close the Memphis plant if they didn't

2512
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:45,000
Speaker 1: ratify this negotiated contract. So rather than experience you know,

2513
02:21:45,959 --> 02:21:50,520
Speaker 1: five layoffs in Memphis, they just agreed to it. So

2514
02:21:50,680 --> 02:21:55,879
Speaker 1: they knew going to the negotiating table in that they

2515
02:21:55,879 --> 02:22:00,680
Speaker 1: were going to try and sort of walk that back. Um.

2516
02:22:00,680 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 1: Because these workers all work in the same plant, same

2517
02:22:04,560 --> 02:22:07,879
Speaker 1: days for a second third shift. The transitional workers are

2518
02:22:07,920 --> 02:22:11,120
Speaker 1: working side by side with these full time employees, working

2519
02:22:11,160 --> 02:22:14,080
Speaker 1: the same hours, which can amount to seven days a week,

2520
02:22:14,400 --> 02:22:17,800
Speaker 1: twelve to sixteen hours a day on mandatory over time,

2521
02:22:18,080 --> 02:22:20,880
Speaker 1: and they are making twelve dollars an hour less and

2522
02:22:20,920 --> 02:22:24,000
Speaker 1: they are not getting the benefits that these full time

2523
02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:26,960
Speaker 1: employees are getting. So really, these full time employees are

2524
02:22:27,000 --> 02:22:29,879
Speaker 1: kind of going to bat for the transitional employees. Um

2525
02:22:30,040 --> 02:22:33,680
Speaker 1: Kelloggs wants to remove the cap which the union negotiated,

2526
02:22:33,879 --> 02:22:36,800
Speaker 1: which is att of their workforce. They wanted to do that,

2527
02:22:36,920 --> 02:22:38,720
Speaker 1: do a way with that so that they can continue

2528
02:22:38,760 --> 02:22:43,480
Speaker 1: hiring more transitional workers, and they want to funk with

2529
02:22:43,520 --> 02:22:50,280
Speaker 1: the insurance benefits. So, uh, the union tried to negotiate this.

2530
02:22:50,720 --> 02:22:54,640
Speaker 1: I think according to the local union president, Kellogg's negotiators

2531
02:22:54,640 --> 02:22:57,680
Speaker 1: were at the negotiating table for ten hours and they

2532
02:22:57,760 --> 02:23:01,320
Speaker 1: negotiated eight hours a day, five days a week for

2533
02:23:01,360 --> 02:23:05,280
Speaker 1: two weeks. Ten hours there at the table. So they

2534
02:23:05,320 --> 02:23:08,840
Speaker 1: weren't interested in negotiating a contract. They had laid out

2535
02:23:08,879 --> 02:23:12,000
Speaker 1: their their terms and they essentially told the union to

2536
02:23:12,040 --> 02:23:15,280
Speaker 1: go kick rocks. And so the union said, you know,

2537
02:23:15,360 --> 02:23:18,880
Speaker 1: we have we have until October five and then our

2538
02:23:18,920 --> 02:23:21,360
Speaker 1: contract is up, and if we haven't ratified a new contract,

2539
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:24,560
Speaker 1: then we're going out on strike. And that's ultimately what happened.

2540
02:23:25,080 --> 02:23:27,520
Speaker 1: So they've been on strike for this will be their

2541
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:31,360
Speaker 1: fourteenth day today. I think the fight against the two

2542
02:23:31,440 --> 02:23:33,720
Speaker 1: tier system. I think is an interesting part of this

2543
02:23:33,760 --> 02:23:36,320
Speaker 1: because that's been a huge part of a lot of

2544
02:23:36,360 --> 02:23:39,760
Speaker 1: the different strikes you've been seeing since John Deer strikes,

2545
02:23:39,879 --> 02:23:43,240
Speaker 1: is part of the Kaiser strikes. And Yeah, I'm wondering

2546
02:23:43,280 --> 02:23:47,400
Speaker 1: what you think specifically about the fact that this is like,

2547
02:23:47,680 --> 02:23:50,160
Speaker 1: this is the moment that people have decided to like

2548
02:23:50,520 --> 02:23:53,040
Speaker 1: push back against against two or even three tier systems

2549
02:23:53,640 --> 02:23:56,440
Speaker 1: they were introduced in the last really like ten or

2550
02:23:56,480 --> 02:24:00,160
Speaker 1: fifteen years for the most part. Well, I think it's

2551
02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's a divide and conquer strategy for Kellogg's

2552
02:24:02,760 --> 02:24:05,080
Speaker 1: or for these other companies. And ultimately, what it looks

2553
02:24:05,080 --> 02:24:10,480
Speaker 1: like is it uh destabilizes well established unions, especially at Kellogg's.

2554
02:24:11,200 --> 02:24:16,560
Speaker 1: UM and UM, it pits workers against each other, you know, UM,

2555
02:24:16,600 --> 02:24:20,000
Speaker 1: particularly at Kellogg's. If they're able to remove this cap

2556
02:24:20,040 --> 02:24:23,600
Speaker 1: on this tier system, UM, what they're essentially doing is

2557
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:28,520
Speaker 1: they're creating a more precarious workplace for these workers. UM.

2558
02:24:28,560 --> 02:24:30,840
Speaker 1: The turnover rate and the lower tier at the Omaha

2559
02:24:30,879 --> 02:24:36,600
Speaker 1: plant is right around UM. And you know, prior to

2560
02:24:37,640 --> 02:24:39,560
Speaker 1: you didn't really see a whole lot of people leaving

2561
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:42,080
Speaker 1: the Kellogg's plant. You know, these were these are workers

2562
02:24:42,080 --> 02:24:46,840
Speaker 1: who are spending their entire careers at this plant. Their

2563
02:24:46,840 --> 02:24:50,840
Speaker 1: parents work their their grandparents work there. You know. Um,

2564
02:24:50,879 --> 02:24:54,760
Speaker 1: they because they're all getting paid around the same amount

2565
02:24:54,760 --> 02:24:57,400
Speaker 1: of money. There isn't this tension on the line, so

2566
02:24:57,560 --> 02:25:01,840
Speaker 1: they're they're working with each other, they're helping each other, right, Um.

2567
02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:06,320
Speaker 1: And with this tier system, what they're doing is they're

2568
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:12,840
Speaker 1: throwing these newer workers into uh pretty uh insane factory conditions,

2569
02:25:13,480 --> 02:25:16,600
Speaker 1: um and making it really difficult for them to uh,

2570
02:25:16,600 --> 02:25:19,600
Speaker 1: I feel like they have any reason to stay there. Right.

2571
02:25:19,879 --> 02:25:22,040
Speaker 1: A lot of these people will, you know put in

2572
02:25:23,120 --> 02:25:26,199
Speaker 1: some of these workers were transitional workers who weren't officially

2573
02:25:26,280 --> 02:25:29,320
Speaker 1: hired by the company. You know, there aren't full time employees.

2574
02:25:29,360 --> 02:25:32,840
Speaker 1: They aren't receiving benefits like the full time employees are

2575
02:25:33,160 --> 02:25:36,680
Speaker 1: for five years. They work this every day, seven days

2576
02:25:36,680 --> 02:25:39,720
Speaker 1: a week, three months on end. Right. Uh. They have

2577
02:25:39,840 --> 02:25:43,200
Speaker 1: this really you know punitive attendance based points system that

2578
02:25:43,920 --> 02:25:47,200
Speaker 1: discourages you calling in sick. There's injuries that happened in

2579
02:25:47,240 --> 02:25:49,840
Speaker 1: the factory all the time. You know. I went out

2580
02:25:49,879 --> 02:25:53,480
Speaker 1: to the line and wrote a piece for the Real

2581
02:25:53,560 --> 02:25:56,959
Speaker 1: News about this, and pretty much every person I talked

2582
02:25:57,000 --> 02:26:01,240
Speaker 1: to showed me scars from accidents that happened injuries in

2583
02:26:01,280 --> 02:26:05,040
Speaker 1: the plant. Um. The union president himself got his hand

2584
02:26:05,680 --> 02:26:09,480
Speaker 1: stuck in a um like a mill and broke all

2585
02:26:09,480 --> 02:26:10,879
Speaker 1: the fingers in his hand. He had to have ten

2586
02:26:10,920 --> 02:26:14,600
Speaker 1: surgeries on his hand. You know. Um, there was an

2587
02:26:14,600 --> 02:26:18,000
Speaker 1: accident at the plant two or three weeks ago where

2588
02:26:18,040 --> 02:26:21,520
Speaker 1: a transitional employee got both arms stuck in a conveyor belt.

2589
02:26:21,640 --> 02:26:26,920
Speaker 1: You know. Um. The thing is is these folks super

2590
02:26:26,959 --> 02:26:31,280
Speaker 1: proud of the work that they do, like absolutely take

2591
02:26:31,360 --> 02:26:35,120
Speaker 1: this work extremely seriously. You know, they're not even asking

2592
02:26:35,240 --> 02:26:39,440
Speaker 1: for changes to their overtime. They are not asking for

2593
02:26:39,840 --> 02:26:42,640
Speaker 1: you know anything that you know from me on the outside,

2594
02:26:42,640 --> 02:26:46,199
Speaker 1: I'd be fighting for more humane working conditions. But to them,

2595
02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's not like it's a point of pride,

2596
02:26:49,959 --> 02:26:54,720
Speaker 1: but they feel that they have put blood, sweat, tears, uh,

2597
02:26:54,760 --> 02:26:58,440
Speaker 1: you know, fractured relationships, time that they could be spending

2598
02:26:58,440 --> 02:27:02,040
Speaker 1: with their children in to this factory and Kelloggs is

2599
02:27:02,160 --> 02:27:06,160
Speaker 1: essentially fucking them over. Yeah. You know, they see, as

2600
02:27:06,280 --> 02:27:09,200
Speaker 1: we have sacrificed for this company for years and years

2601
02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:12,840
Speaker 1: and years, um, and we are asking for equal pay

2602
02:27:12,920 --> 02:27:15,640
Speaker 1: for all and for everyone to have the same health

2603
02:27:15,680 --> 02:27:18,960
Speaker 1: care so that we can do this job, you know,

2604
02:27:19,240 --> 02:27:23,880
Speaker 1: and Kelloggs is saying no, absolutely, you know. I think

2605
02:27:24,240 --> 02:27:27,199
Speaker 1: the union president said that some of the negotiators called

2606
02:27:27,240 --> 02:27:32,760
Speaker 1: those demands outlandish during negotiations, which I think is just incredible,

2607
02:27:32,959 --> 02:27:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, just corporate greed. Yeah. I think the other

2608
02:27:36,280 --> 02:27:40,080
Speaker 1: part of the story is that, like I mean, it's

2609
02:27:40,160 --> 02:27:42,080
Speaker 1: kind of a weird consequence of it, but like one

2610
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:44,039
Speaker 1: of the things, one of those consequences is sort of

2611
02:27:44,080 --> 02:27:48,119
Speaker 1: like rising like staple commodity prices, staple grain prices and stuff.

2612
02:27:48,160 --> 02:27:50,240
Speaker 1: Is that Kelloggs like they're doing they have like record

2613
02:27:50,240 --> 02:27:53,560
Speaker 1: they have record profits right now and they're still just

2614
02:27:53,680 --> 02:27:57,119
Speaker 1: doing this ship because yeah, they made record profits during

2615
02:27:57,160 --> 02:28:03,840
Speaker 1: the pandemic. They gave their CEO, uh, pretty hefty raise bonus. UM,

2616
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:08,000
Speaker 1: there was a stock buyback program that helped happened among

2617
02:28:08,120 --> 02:28:10,520
Speaker 1: the c suite folks last year. They made a lot

2618
02:28:10,600 --> 02:28:13,320
Speaker 1: of money, a lot of money. And um, you know,

2619
02:28:13,360 --> 02:28:18,000
Speaker 1: these workers worked every day through the pandemic, um continually understaffed,

2620
02:28:18,320 --> 02:28:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, UM, doing their best because again, they they

2621
02:28:23,440 --> 02:28:26,400
Speaker 1: take this job very seriously and they are proud that

2622
02:28:26,440 --> 02:28:29,200
Speaker 1: they are feeding the American people, you know, UM, and

2623
02:28:29,240 --> 02:28:32,480
Speaker 1: they are proud to work at Kellogg's and uh, they

2624
02:28:32,560 --> 02:28:38,240
Speaker 1: feel that this contract is just shit, it's just ship

2625
02:28:38,680 --> 02:28:41,360
Speaker 1: and you know the only sensible thing to do is

2626
02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:43,640
Speaker 1: to to walk out on strike because you know, they've

2627
02:28:43,640 --> 02:28:47,400
Speaker 1: been backed into a corner and negotiations have stagnated completely.

2628
02:28:47,840 --> 02:28:54,879
Speaker 1: You know. Um, and um, they don't want to They

2629
02:28:54,920 --> 02:28:57,959
Speaker 1: don't want to back down from this, you know. Um,

2630
02:28:58,080 --> 02:29:00,200
Speaker 1: they and I agree. I feel what they're what they're

2631
02:29:00,200 --> 02:29:02,920
Speaker 1: asking for is fair. It's very fair. I mean, I

2632
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:06,720
Speaker 1: think it's I think asking for a lot more would

2633
02:29:06,720 --> 02:29:10,280
Speaker 1: be fair, but not my place to be doing. One

2634
02:29:10,320 --> 02:29:11,840
Speaker 1: of the things that strikes me about this you talk

2635
02:29:11,879 --> 02:29:15,640
Speaker 1: about this tier system that Kellogg's introduced, which I can't

2636
02:29:15,680 --> 02:29:19,320
Speaker 1: help but think of what happened that John Deere, where

2637
02:29:19,360 --> 02:29:22,480
Speaker 1: they I think in nineties six cut pensions by two

2638
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:26,480
Speaker 1: thirds and then like last year eliminated them entirely. And

2639
02:29:26,520 --> 02:29:30,120
Speaker 1: this kind of bid to pit chunks of the workforced

2640
02:29:30,160 --> 02:29:33,720
Speaker 1: against each other. Um, where you have like you know,

2641
02:29:33,800 --> 02:29:36,920
Speaker 1: different groups making different amounts and sort of like, I

2642
02:29:36,920 --> 02:29:39,039
Speaker 1: don't know, it seems kind of like the strategy that

2643
02:29:39,040 --> 02:29:42,240
Speaker 1: you see in the broader economy, like written within within

2644
02:29:42,920 --> 02:29:45,280
Speaker 1: the space of a company, where you've got like some

2645
02:29:45,320 --> 02:29:48,240
Speaker 1: people who are getting pretty well taken care of in

2646
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:51,320
Speaker 1: their jobs and other newer people who are who are

2647
02:29:51,320 --> 02:29:53,879
Speaker 1: getting more screwed over in kind of this this attempt

2648
02:29:53,959 --> 02:29:57,400
Speaker 1: to create division within the workforce so that this this

2649
02:29:57,520 --> 02:30:01,200
Speaker 1: kind of organizing doesn't happen. M M m M. I

2650
02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:02,880
Speaker 1: would agree. And you also have to think, you know,

2651
02:30:02,920 --> 02:30:05,959
Speaker 1: if they are able to remove this cap on the

2652
02:30:06,000 --> 02:30:09,360
Speaker 1: transitional tier, but that means that this is they'll be

2653
02:30:09,400 --> 02:30:13,360
Speaker 1: able to instead of say, say a full time employee retires,

2654
02:30:14,680 --> 02:30:17,240
Speaker 1: they leave that space empty, but they still need an

2655
02:30:17,320 --> 02:30:20,560
Speaker 1: extra space, an extra person, right, so they can just

2656
02:30:20,720 --> 02:30:24,959
Speaker 1: hire a transitional worker instead of funneling one of those

2657
02:30:25,000 --> 02:30:30,000
Speaker 1: transitional workers into that full time space. Ah, what ends

2658
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:34,000
Speaker 1: up happening is suddenly you have instead of seventy full

2659
02:30:34,040 --> 02:30:39,280
Speaker 1: time to transitional. The it starts tipping, right, it becomes

2660
02:30:39,320 --> 02:30:42,280
Speaker 1: a more precarious workforce. Then say, for example, they do

2661
02:30:42,360 --> 02:30:44,480
Speaker 1: that in the next five years, you know, now they

2662
02:30:44,480 --> 02:30:48,360
Speaker 1: have seventy percent of these transitional workers who don't think

2663
02:30:48,400 --> 02:30:51,560
Speaker 1: the union is offering anything for them. They can essentially

2664
02:30:51,640 --> 02:30:54,680
Speaker 1: just offer a better deal to these transitional workers and

2665
02:30:54,800 --> 02:30:57,160
Speaker 1: kick the union out of the company at some point,

2666
02:30:57,560 --> 02:31:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, um, and these folks on the line understand

2667
02:31:00,959 --> 02:31:04,160
Speaker 1: that and know that that's kind of Kellogg's plan, right.

2668
02:31:04,280 --> 02:31:06,640
Speaker 1: They know that the Kelloggs, what Kelloggs is trying to

2669
02:31:06,680 --> 02:31:11,480
Speaker 1: do is essentially destabilize the power of the union inside

2670
02:31:11,480 --> 02:31:15,440
Speaker 1: the plants. And everyone on the line that I've spoken with,

2671
02:31:16,080 --> 02:31:19,040
Speaker 1: I know exactly what's happening, you know. And these full

2672
02:31:19,080 --> 02:31:23,120
Speaker 1: time employees are out there every day making sure that

2673
02:31:23,200 --> 02:31:26,680
Speaker 1: their transitional and you know, colleagues know that that's why

2674
02:31:26,680 --> 02:31:30,800
Speaker 1: they're out there because they want to not allow this

2675
02:31:31,040 --> 02:31:34,480
Speaker 1: to be something that divides their workforce. It remains to

2676
02:31:34,480 --> 02:31:36,720
Speaker 1: be seen what's going to happen, you know what I mean.

2677
02:31:37,959 --> 02:31:40,920
Speaker 1: They've brought in scabs to get the plant up and

2678
02:31:41,000 --> 02:31:47,680
Speaker 1: running again, and most recently, uh, yesterday this morning. Yesterday,

2679
02:31:48,440 --> 02:31:53,000
Speaker 1: the Building and Construction Trades Council union met with the

2680
02:31:53,120 --> 02:31:57,520
Speaker 1: union president in Omaha because they have about a hundred

2681
02:31:57,600 --> 02:32:01,520
Speaker 1: third party iron workers, carpenters, atricians, and skilled trades people

2682
02:32:01,640 --> 02:32:07,040
Speaker 1: that are union trades people that have contracts at Kellogg's.

2683
02:32:07,720 --> 02:32:11,920
Speaker 1: And they came to what Dan Osborne, the union president,

2684
02:32:11,959 --> 02:32:16,360
Speaker 1: decided called was a tough decision that those union workers

2685
02:32:16,360 --> 02:32:19,000
Speaker 1: are going to cross the picket line to honor those contracts.

2686
02:32:19,680 --> 02:32:23,879
Speaker 1: So Kelloggs is forcing the unions in the city in

2687
02:32:24,120 --> 02:32:27,680
Speaker 1: like into a bind really because they're they're you know,

2688
02:32:28,120 --> 02:32:31,960
Speaker 1: uh going to lose their own contracts at Kellogg's. So

2689
02:32:32,280 --> 02:32:35,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of been like the most recent development here

2690
02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:39,800
Speaker 1: is that rather than just temps coming in, we have

2691
02:32:39,920 --> 02:32:44,400
Speaker 1: now skilled union trades people from various Omaha unions who

2692
02:32:44,400 --> 02:32:48,440
Speaker 1: are also crossing the picket line two honor their contracts

2693
02:32:48,480 --> 02:32:53,400
Speaker 1: at Kellogg's, you know, um past these striking workers. So

2694
02:32:54,600 --> 02:32:58,960
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a mess a little bit, you know. Yeah,

2695
02:32:59,320 --> 02:33:03,440
Speaker 1: there's so going on right now. I'm kind of wondering

2696
02:33:03,480 --> 02:33:06,680
Speaker 1: what you think are the because we've got a number

2697
02:33:06,720 --> 02:33:08,680
Speaker 1: of strikes kind of all coming to ahead at the

2698
02:33:08,720 --> 02:33:11,520
Speaker 1: same time, I'm wondering, specifically from the Kellogg strike, what

2699
02:33:11,520 --> 02:33:14,119
Speaker 1: do you think are kind of the lessons that should

2700
02:33:14,120 --> 02:33:17,080
Speaker 1: be taken from what's happened so far for the broader

2701
02:33:17,160 --> 02:33:20,840
Speaker 1: labor movement. UM. I think the biggest thing that's kind

2702
02:33:20,879 --> 02:33:25,160
Speaker 1: of impacted me as I've gone to the line. UM,

2703
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:27,760
Speaker 1: I've stood on the picket line, I've covered these you know,

2704
02:33:27,840 --> 02:33:31,879
Speaker 1: this strike, I've talked to people, UM, is that when

2705
02:33:31,920 --> 02:33:36,360
Speaker 1: these types of actions happen. They really only can be

2706
02:33:36,480 --> 02:33:40,800
Speaker 1: sustained because the community comes together to support them. You know. Um,

2707
02:33:42,080 --> 02:33:45,480
Speaker 1: these strike funds that are going around and folks showing

2708
02:33:45,520 --> 02:33:47,240
Speaker 1: up to stand on the picket line who are not

2709
02:33:47,320 --> 02:33:50,200
Speaker 1: part of the union are really sort of become you know,

2710
02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:55,080
Speaker 1: they are helping support these workers who can only hold

2711
02:33:55,080 --> 02:33:59,039
Speaker 1: out so long with finite resources. Right. So the big

2712
02:33:59,080 --> 02:34:05,240
Speaker 1: thing to is that past these news cycles of excitement

2713
02:34:05,360 --> 02:34:08,360
Speaker 1: of striked ober of you know, these people just walked

2714
02:34:08,360 --> 02:34:10,400
Speaker 1: out today, Well they may be you know, they may

2715
02:34:10,400 --> 02:34:12,240
Speaker 1: be on the line for months and months on end,

2716
02:34:12,440 --> 02:34:15,200
Speaker 1: and the new cycle is going to move on, and

2717
02:34:15,240 --> 02:34:17,360
Speaker 1: these communities are still going to have to try and

2718
02:34:17,360 --> 02:34:21,800
Speaker 1: and and back up these labor actions, right Um. You

2719
02:34:21,840 --> 02:34:25,040
Speaker 1: really can't have true you know, you can't have a

2720
02:34:25,120 --> 02:34:30,080
Speaker 1: labor movement without you know, support, right um. And that's

2721
02:34:30,120 --> 02:34:33,959
Speaker 1: kind of been the biggest thing that has impacted me particularly.

2722
02:34:34,120 --> 02:34:37,200
Speaker 1: You know this Almaha used to be a really formidable

2723
02:34:37,280 --> 02:34:40,160
Speaker 1: union time. You know, back in the eighties, it was

2724
02:34:40,200 --> 02:34:43,600
Speaker 1: really really something to see that the business unions in

2725
02:34:43,600 --> 02:34:46,440
Speaker 1: in the various locals here really had some of these

2726
02:34:46,520 --> 02:34:50,400
Speaker 1: union leaders had more political power than the mayor, right Um,

2727
02:34:50,520 --> 02:34:53,440
Speaker 1: And that has gone downhill over the last forty years,

2728
02:34:53,680 --> 02:34:58,160
Speaker 1: and it's really cool to see, uh, the level of

2729
02:34:58,200 --> 02:35:01,840
Speaker 1: solidarity that's happening amongst community, you know, um in the

2730
02:35:01,840 --> 02:35:03,760
Speaker 1: ways in which people are kind of coming out to

2731
02:35:03,800 --> 02:35:06,240
Speaker 1: talk to and and be a part of this strike

2732
02:35:06,440 --> 02:35:09,519
Speaker 1: and to remind these Kellogg's workers that they're not operating

2733
02:35:09,520 --> 02:35:11,600
Speaker 1: in a bubble, you know, and that the rest of

2734
02:35:11,640 --> 02:35:14,880
Speaker 1: the community really hopes that the strike will end quickly

2735
02:35:15,080 --> 02:35:20,320
Speaker 1: and peacefully and with a really good resolution for these workers.

2736
02:35:20,680 --> 02:35:25,280
Speaker 1: You know. Whatever thing I wanted to ask about in

2737
02:35:25,280 --> 02:35:28,600
Speaker 1: in terms of sort of this this kind of research

2738
02:35:28,640 --> 02:35:32,160
Speaker 1: in to the union movements and in in in terms

2739
02:35:32,200 --> 02:35:36,879
Speaker 1: of sort of communities support is the level of violence

2740
02:35:37,080 --> 02:35:41,640
Speaker 1: that there's been against, like against the strikes. I've seen

2741
02:35:41,640 --> 02:35:45,160
Speaker 1: a lot of like stuff about people cann hit by

2742
02:35:45,200 --> 02:35:48,800
Speaker 1: buses and like, and I don't I don't know if

2743
02:35:50,000 --> 02:35:51,440
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm getting my strikes. I don't

2744
02:35:51,440 --> 02:35:54,280
Speaker 1: don't know if they've they've been direct car attacks on

2745
02:35:54,320 --> 02:35:55,920
Speaker 1: this specific picket line, but that's been I think that

2746
02:35:56,600 --> 02:35:59,199
Speaker 1: it's been happening a lot. And I was a couple

2747
02:35:59,240 --> 02:36:04,120
Speaker 1: of documented races. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I was wondering

2748
02:36:04,200 --> 02:36:07,400
Speaker 1: what you think about that, and like what actually can

2749
02:36:07,440 --> 02:36:10,920
Speaker 1: be done about the fact that, like you know that

2750
02:36:11,040 --> 02:36:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, like this just the fact that we're just

2751
02:36:12,959 --> 02:36:17,480
Speaker 1: seeing auto attacks on picket lines regularly now, I mean

2752
02:36:17,959 --> 02:36:24,279
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's a it's a shitty development. You know. Um.

2753
02:36:24,440 --> 02:36:28,400
Speaker 1: I was out on the picket line last Thursday and UM,

2754
02:36:29,200 --> 02:36:32,560
Speaker 1: they were attempting to bring in busses at shift change

2755
02:36:32,680 --> 02:36:37,000
Speaker 1: past the the picketers who walk slowly. You know, they

2756
02:36:37,000 --> 02:36:38,520
Speaker 1: don't want to stop in front of the bus. It's

2757
02:36:38,520 --> 02:36:41,920
Speaker 1: illegal to stop and and you know make it, you know,

2758
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:44,720
Speaker 1: so that they can't pass through the gates, but they

2759
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:48,080
Speaker 1: slow them down for a little bit. And UM, one

2760
02:36:48,120 --> 02:36:52,480
Speaker 1: gentleman was trying, you know, was standing there and this

2761
02:36:52,560 --> 02:36:57,080
Speaker 1: bus just bumped right into them. You know, there's videos

2762
02:36:57,120 --> 02:37:01,000
Speaker 1: that have been shared through local news of buses knocking

2763
02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:04,680
Speaker 1: down workers as they're trying to cross the picket line. UM.

2764
02:37:04,720 --> 02:37:07,680
Speaker 1: And I you know, there are also the personal vehicles

2765
02:37:07,720 --> 02:37:10,280
Speaker 1: that go through and it could be the private security

2766
02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:15,560
Speaker 1: that's been hired, it could be managers. UM. But you know,

2767
02:37:15,640 --> 02:37:21,000
Speaker 1: they're running through these lines really quickly dangerously. It's unfortunate,

2768
02:37:21,280 --> 02:37:23,760
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't have an answer for what

2769
02:37:23,879 --> 02:37:28,640
Speaker 1: the best h solution for that is, you know, but

2770
02:37:29,040 --> 02:37:34,080
Speaker 1: vehicle tax have become sort of more Uh. I don't

2771
02:37:34,080 --> 02:37:36,200
Speaker 1: want to say commonplace, but you see them happening a

2772
02:37:36,280 --> 02:37:40,640
Speaker 1: lot both at protests last year, and you know, I

2773
02:37:40,640 --> 02:37:44,560
Speaker 1: think Warrior met Cole had some bosses running through the

2774
02:37:44,600 --> 02:37:48,679
Speaker 1: lines and being reckless with their vehicles. You know. Um,

2775
02:37:48,800 --> 02:37:51,000
Speaker 1: the problem is is on the on the back end.

2776
02:37:51,240 --> 02:37:55,480
Speaker 1: The police don't step in when they see these instances,

2777
02:37:55,959 --> 02:37:59,640
Speaker 1: you know. Um and in fact, last Thursday, when we

2778
02:37:59,760 --> 02:38:04,720
Speaker 1: have hundred plus motorcyclists from various mc s show up

2779
02:38:04,760 --> 02:38:08,960
Speaker 1: to support the strike, um, the police were the ones

2780
02:38:09,000 --> 02:38:12,119
Speaker 1: who protected the scabs and made sure that they made

2781
02:38:12,120 --> 02:38:15,680
Speaker 1: it through the picket line. So you know, UM, the

2782
02:38:15,720 --> 02:38:18,520
Speaker 1: answer to that, IM not sure. You know. Yeah, I

2783
02:38:18,560 --> 02:38:22,959
Speaker 1: mean that's a time honored police tradition. Yeah, they historically

2784
02:38:23,040 --> 02:38:28,480
Speaker 1: don't don't exist to protect laborers, with the notable exception

2785
02:38:28,680 --> 02:38:32,640
Speaker 1: of of the sheriff And what was that Mattawan and

2786
02:38:32,760 --> 02:38:36,920
Speaker 1: uh during the um the coal miner strike in West Virginia.

2787
02:38:37,280 --> 02:38:40,959
Speaker 1: M Well yeah they shot him so well yeah, but

2788
02:38:41,000 --> 02:38:46,560
Speaker 1: he shot some people first. Yeah, Um, Sid Hatfield that

2789
02:38:46,600 --> 02:38:49,880
Speaker 1: was the name. Yeah, I don't know, Um, I've gotten

2790
02:38:49,879 --> 02:38:51,360
Speaker 1: to know some of these folks on the line of

2791
02:38:51,400 --> 02:38:54,440
Speaker 1: the last two weeks, and they're just fantastic human beings,

2792
02:38:54,480 --> 02:38:59,520
Speaker 1: you know. Um, they are accommodating and hard working, and

2793
02:38:59,560 --> 02:39:01,560
Speaker 1: they come from all age brackets and they bring their

2794
02:39:01,600 --> 02:39:04,760
Speaker 1: families out and you know they're getting they're getting a

2795
02:39:04,800 --> 02:39:09,160
Speaker 1: raw deal from Kellogg's. And UM, so far, the community

2796
02:39:09,200 --> 02:39:13,039
Speaker 1: support has been overwhelmingly positive. UM, there hasn't really been

2797
02:39:13,400 --> 02:39:15,960
Speaker 1: like at the John Deer strike. They're not getting eggs

2798
02:39:15,959 --> 02:39:19,160
Speaker 1: thrown out them, you know. UM, they get a lot

2799
02:39:19,200 --> 02:39:24,199
Speaker 1: more honking and messages of support than they do people

2800
02:39:24,440 --> 02:39:28,840
Speaker 1: driving by to yell at them for uh, you know,

2801
02:39:29,320 --> 02:39:33,800
Speaker 1: being a strike. So that's been nice to see, you know. Um.

2802
02:39:33,840 --> 02:39:38,240
Speaker 1: And actually this weekend on Saturday, UM, there's gonna be

2803
02:39:38,360 --> 02:39:44,160
Speaker 1: a like cool vintage car show cruise around Kellogg's event

2804
02:39:44,200 --> 02:39:48,400
Speaker 1: that they've got planned. The fire departments bringing rigs and

2805
02:39:48,720 --> 02:39:53,680
Speaker 1: um teamsters yeah, yeah, and the teamsters are bringing cars

2806
02:39:53,720 --> 02:39:55,600
Speaker 1: and then there's a bunch of vintage car clubs that

2807
02:39:55,600 --> 02:39:58,560
Speaker 1: are gonna be coming out. So you know, those types

2808
02:39:58,600 --> 02:40:00,560
Speaker 1: of things I like really kind of like fired up

2809
02:40:00,560 --> 02:40:02,360
Speaker 1: these people to keep them out on the line as

2810
02:40:02,360 --> 02:40:05,199
Speaker 1: long as they need to be, you know. So communities

2811
02:40:05,240 --> 02:40:09,640
Speaker 1: there for him. One of the things I'm continuing to

2812
02:40:09,720 --> 02:40:13,480
Speaker 1: wonder about is what it takes to close the gap

2813
02:40:13,800 --> 02:40:18,440
Speaker 1: between understanding that you and your colleagues are getting screwed

2814
02:40:18,480 --> 02:40:21,680
Speaker 1: over by this system and understanding that you and all

2815
02:40:21,680 --> 02:40:23,760
Speaker 1: of the other people striking at the same time, and

2816
02:40:23,800 --> 02:40:26,680
Speaker 1: perhaps even a bunch of people not striking, are all

2817
02:40:26,760 --> 02:40:29,160
Speaker 1: kind of fighting the same fight. And then maybe there's

2818
02:40:30,560 --> 02:40:34,440
Speaker 1: grander things to achieve than the negotiation of a single contract,

2819
02:40:34,440 --> 02:40:38,080
Speaker 1: because that seems like the big leap that is going

2820
02:40:38,120 --> 02:40:43,960
Speaker 1: to be the real struggle to clear. Uh. Yeah, you know. Um.

2821
02:40:44,000 --> 02:40:46,240
Speaker 1: I will say that some of the workers are fully

2822
02:40:46,280 --> 02:40:48,960
Speaker 1: aware that this is not just about a single contract

2823
02:40:49,000 --> 02:40:53,360
Speaker 1: negotiation and is actually, you know, more about struggles of

2824
02:40:53,400 --> 02:40:56,560
Speaker 1: the working class against corporate greed and the ways in

2825
02:40:56,560 --> 02:40:58,720
Speaker 1: which the working class gets their asses handed to them

2826
02:40:58,760 --> 02:41:02,760
Speaker 1: all the time, um um. And they know that they

2827
02:41:02,760 --> 02:41:05,200
Speaker 1: know that at some point, perhaps at some point in

2828
02:41:05,200 --> 02:41:07,720
Speaker 1: the future, someone else is going to look at their

2829
02:41:07,760 --> 02:41:11,960
Speaker 1: example and be inspired by it. Right. Um. As far

2830
02:41:12,000 --> 02:41:16,600
Speaker 1: as like maybe I don't know, ideologically speaking or politically speaking,

2831
02:41:17,160 --> 02:41:20,720
Speaker 1: for these folks, it's uh doesn't fit into any sort

2832
02:41:20,760 --> 02:41:25,520
Speaker 1: of ideology leftist or conservative or whatever. Everyone's got their

2833
02:41:25,520 --> 02:41:27,720
Speaker 1: own personal politics, but they don't really talk about it

2834
02:41:27,760 --> 02:41:31,640
Speaker 1: on the line. What they talk about is working class

2835
02:41:32,120 --> 02:41:35,720
Speaker 1: versus ruling class. Um that you know, that's their sense.

2836
02:41:35,720 --> 02:41:39,960
Speaker 1: It's corporate greed, it's um. Asshole CEO is making eleven

2837
02:41:39,959 --> 02:41:42,920
Speaker 1: point six million dollars a year while they're struggling to

2838
02:41:42,920 --> 02:41:47,840
Speaker 1: pay their own bills, you know. UM. And and you

2839
02:41:47,879 --> 02:41:52,960
Speaker 1: know that conversation is more common than UM. Trying to

2840
02:41:53,040 --> 02:41:56,960
Speaker 1: fit this into a larger political movement or revolutionary movement,

2841
02:41:57,040 --> 02:42:00,440
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, you know, yeah, um. But I

2842
02:42:00,440 --> 02:42:03,040
Speaker 1: would say that the vast majority of the workers, regardless

2843
02:42:03,080 --> 02:42:06,120
Speaker 1: of their own personal politics, have a very clear sense

2844
02:42:06,160 --> 02:42:09,520
Speaker 1: of where they sit in terms of class consciousness and

2845
02:42:09,840 --> 02:42:13,960
Speaker 1: understand that this is one of one of the most

2846
02:42:14,000 --> 02:42:18,120
Speaker 1: effective tactics to try and force the hand of these assholes,

2847
02:42:18,320 --> 02:42:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, UM, is to withhold work and withhold their labor.

2848
02:42:22,560 --> 02:42:25,800
Speaker 1: So well, this has been great. I mean, that's everything

2849
02:42:25,800 --> 02:42:28,360
Speaker 1: I had to ask Chris. Anything else not that not

2850
02:42:28,400 --> 02:42:30,760
Speaker 1: that I have. So there is there a call to

2851
02:42:30,879 --> 02:42:33,480
Speaker 1: action we could have for our listeners or pages people

2852
02:42:33,480 --> 02:42:37,120
Speaker 1: should be following strike fund Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a

2853
02:42:37,160 --> 02:42:39,440
Speaker 1: go fund me, and there's a PayPal set up for

2854
02:42:39,480 --> 02:42:42,160
Speaker 1: the Almaja strikers. I believe the b c t g

2855
02:42:42,440 --> 02:42:47,840
Speaker 1: M international page has like a page of each of

2856
02:42:47,840 --> 02:42:50,320
Speaker 1: the strike funds for each of the four plants, So

2857
02:42:50,400 --> 02:42:52,240
Speaker 1: that might be something that you might not want to

2858
02:42:52,240 --> 02:42:54,160
Speaker 1: share with your listeners. I can send you an email

2859
02:42:54,200 --> 02:42:57,640
Speaker 1: with that, UM, because it's probably going to be easier

2860
02:42:57,680 --> 02:43:01,240
Speaker 1: to do UM. But yeah, it's ours. I know. Bct

2861
02:43:01,400 --> 02:43:04,879
Speaker 1: g M isn't called for an official boycott of Kellogg's products, However,

2862
02:43:05,600 --> 02:43:08,600
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be mad if you just didn't buy any

2863
02:43:08,800 --> 02:43:11,600
Speaker 1: right now. There was some talk last week that some

2864
02:43:11,680 --> 02:43:14,120
Speaker 1: of the picketers might you know, be flying outside of

2865
02:43:14,120 --> 02:43:17,160
Speaker 1: grocery stores to try and educate the community on what's

2866
02:43:17,160 --> 02:43:20,760
Speaker 1: going on with this strike. But beyond that, they also

2867
02:43:20,800 --> 02:43:23,320
Speaker 1: are concerned about the quality of the food being produced

2868
02:43:23,320 --> 02:43:25,720
Speaker 1: by scabs. So it probably would be healthy for you

2869
02:43:25,760 --> 02:43:29,480
Speaker 1: to not by the food, you know, because I think

2870
02:43:29,520 --> 02:43:33,840
Speaker 1: it was in what two thousand eighteen during the works

2871
02:43:34,120 --> 02:43:37,400
Speaker 1: a lockout in Memphis, the same company that they brought

2872
02:43:37,440 --> 02:43:41,720
Speaker 1: in then that they're bringing in now uh piste in

2873
02:43:41,760 --> 02:43:45,600
Speaker 1: the cereal on the line, and they didn't release video

2874
02:43:45,640 --> 02:43:49,879
Speaker 1: of that for two years after the incident, So it

2875
02:43:50,000 --> 02:44:01,680
Speaker 1: ended up in someone's home, you know, GROSSI yikes. Yeah, yeah,

2876
02:44:01,680 --> 02:44:04,840
Speaker 1: that's pretty fun right. Um. So yeah, you know, uh,

2877
02:44:05,440 --> 02:44:09,200
Speaker 1: support your local strike fund and if you are in

2878
02:44:09,400 --> 02:44:12,120
Speaker 1: a city where Kellogg's plant is striking, I'm sure those

2879
02:44:12,120 --> 02:44:17,199
Speaker 1: workers would love love to to hear from you fill

2880
02:44:17,200 --> 02:44:22,480
Speaker 1: your support. So where and where can our listeners follow you?

2881
02:44:23,720 --> 02:44:27,680
Speaker 1: I am on Twitter primarily at cold Brood Tool. I

2882
02:44:27,680 --> 02:44:31,520
Speaker 1: don't know why I picked that name, but yeah, yeah

2883
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:34,520
Speaker 1: I got. I haven't changed that handle since I got

2884
02:44:34,560 --> 02:44:39,879
Speaker 1: into Twitter, so um, but yeah, that's usually where I'm at. Otherwise,

2885
02:44:39,959 --> 02:44:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, I teach locally and had to have a

2886
02:44:42,680 --> 02:44:46,119
Speaker 1: podcast that I'm developing and do a bunch of different projects.

2887
02:44:46,120 --> 02:44:47,760
Speaker 1: So Twitter is the best way to get a hold

2888
02:44:47,760 --> 02:44:52,120
Speaker 1: of me if you have questions. Awesome, all right, thanks

2889
02:44:52,120 --> 02:44:56,080
Speaker 1: for having me on folks. Apate, thanks for thanks for

2890
02:44:56,160 --> 02:44:58,600
Speaker 1: joining us. I'll be back at the picket line, you know,

2891
02:44:58,760 --> 02:45:01,400
Speaker 1: talking to these folks and and um, gonna do my

2892
02:45:01,400 --> 02:45:03,120
Speaker 1: best to keep this ship in the new cycles so

2893
02:45:03,160 --> 02:45:06,080
Speaker 1: that they aren't forgotten. So awesome. We've got a link

2894
02:45:06,120 --> 02:45:07,600
Speaker 1: to the strike fund and some other ways to help

2895
02:45:07,680 --> 02:45:09,800
Speaker 1: me in the description. So yeah, this has been it

2896
02:45:09,800 --> 02:45:12,680
Speaker 1: could Happen Here Pod, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, at

2897
02:45:12,959 --> 02:45:16,800
Speaker 1: Happened Here Pod, and at cools on Media. For all

2898
02:45:16,840 --> 02:45:27,320
Speaker 1: the rest of our shows, make sure to check out

2899
02:45:27,400 --> 02:45:30,000
Speaker 1: Drink Champs, your number one music podcast on the Black

2900
02:45:30,040 --> 02:45:32,720
Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network, host n O r E and d

2901
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Speaker 1: J E f N sat down with artists and icon Yea,

2902
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Speaker 1: which Vulture called one of most significant interviews. I literally

2903
02:45:40,400 --> 02:45:42,640
Speaker 1: had to go like Danos and I don't want to

2904
02:45:42,640 --> 02:45:44,600
Speaker 1: have to be the villain. But when I went and

2905
02:45:44,640 --> 02:45:48,680
Speaker 1: did the Donda thing, he returned and anybody had to

2906
02:45:48,680 --> 02:45:51,840
Speaker 1: sit back and watch the real leader. Check out Drink

2907
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Speaker 1: Champs conversation with Yea and many more legendary artists each

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Speaker 1: and every Friday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

2909
02:45:58,360 --> 02:46:04,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite knows. I'm Jake Halbern,

2910
02:46:04,480 --> 02:46:07,520
Speaker 1: host of deep Cover. Our new season is about a

2911
02:46:07,600 --> 02:46:11,720
Speaker 1: lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts,

2912
02:46:11,800 --> 02:46:16,320
Speaker 1: we controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped

2913
02:46:16,320 --> 02:46:19,400
Speaker 1: a hit man walk free until one day when he

2914
02:46:19,400 --> 02:46:22,720
Speaker 1: started talking with the FBI and promised that he could

2915
02:46:22,760 --> 02:46:25,880
Speaker 1: take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying

2916
02:46:25,879 --> 02:46:27,960
Speaker 1: to figure out why he flipped and what he was

2917
02:46:28,000 --> 02:46:31,240
Speaker 1: really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to

2918
02:46:31,240 --> 02:46:33,360
Speaker 1: be true. There's got to be something wrong with this.

2919
02:46:33,920 --> 02:46:36,440
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust the guy. He looks like a little

2920
02:46:36,520 --> 02:46:39,120
Speaker 1: scum big lawyer still bidging. He looked like what he

2921
02:46:39,240 --> 02:46:42,000
Speaker 1: was or at. I can say with all certainty I

2922
02:46:42,040 --> 02:46:44,120
Speaker 1: think he's a hero because he didn't have to do

2923
02:46:44,160 --> 02:46:46,280
Speaker 1: what he did, and he did it anyway. The moment

2924
02:46:46,360 --> 02:46:49,080
Speaker 1: I put the wire around the first time, my life

2925
02:46:49,120 --> 02:46:52,000
Speaker 1: was over. If it ever got out, they would kill

2926
02:46:52,000 --> 02:46:54,920
Speaker 1: me in a heartbeat. Listen to Deep Cover on the

2927
02:46:54,920 --> 02:46:57,960
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

2928
02:46:58,000 --> 02:47:08,920
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here your favorite podcast

2929
02:47:08,959 --> 02:47:12,720
Speaker 1: are also legally the only podcaster that that people are

2930
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Speaker 1: allowed to enjoy on the internet. Here to introduce a

2931
02:47:15,920 --> 02:47:18,920
Speaker 1: really exciting episode of it could happen here. So for

2932
02:47:18,920 --> 02:47:21,400
Speaker 1: the last bit of time, I've been in and out

2933
02:47:21,400 --> 02:47:23,120
Speaker 1: of touch with a number of members of the Puget

2934
02:47:23,160 --> 02:47:27,680
Speaker 1: Sound John Brown Club. They have provided armed self defense

2935
02:47:28,000 --> 02:47:31,080
Speaker 1: groups for a couple of different protests in the Washington

2936
02:47:31,200 --> 02:47:34,360
Speaker 1: area over the last year and change. Um and we

2937
02:47:34,440 --> 02:47:36,360
Speaker 1: wanted to sit down and talk to them about the

2938
02:47:36,400 --> 02:47:39,680
Speaker 1: ideas behind community self defense, how to do it responsibly,

2939
02:47:39,720 --> 02:47:42,640
Speaker 1: how to do it irresponsibly. We also had some discussions

2940
02:47:42,640 --> 02:47:46,120
Speaker 1: with them about the disasters that happened at the Chop

2941
02:47:46,160 --> 02:47:49,120
Speaker 1: Slash Chazz last year. They were not involved with that

2942
02:47:49,240 --> 02:47:51,800
Speaker 1: as an organization, UM, but they have some insights on

2943
02:47:51,840 --> 02:47:54,200
Speaker 1: the matter. UM. That's going to be coming at you

2944
02:47:54,240 --> 02:47:56,720
Speaker 1: in a separate episode or maybe even a couple of

2945
02:47:56,760 --> 02:47:59,360
Speaker 1: episodes in the near future. Today we're just kind of

2946
02:47:59,400 --> 02:48:03,040
Speaker 1: talking about concepts of armed community self defense. You know,

2947
02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:05,959
Speaker 1: what's responsible, what's irresponsible, how people should think about it.

2948
02:48:06,560 --> 02:48:09,920
Speaker 1: I think you'll enjoy the conversation here. It is a

2949
02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:12,840
Speaker 1: decent chunk of the folks listening, especially the Portlanders, will

2950
02:48:12,879 --> 02:48:15,680
Speaker 1: have experience with UH and that that Garrison and I

2951
02:48:15,720 --> 02:48:18,439
Speaker 1: have certainly had experienced with. It is people at protests

2952
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:23,519
Speaker 1: declaring themselves security, sometimes even wearing shirts that say security,

2953
02:48:23,560 --> 02:48:26,879
Speaker 1: and picking up a variety of weapons off in paintball

2954
02:48:26,920 --> 02:48:32,160
Speaker 1: guns and mace and using them often irresponsibly on other protesters,

2955
02:48:32,360 --> 02:48:35,959
Speaker 1: on on bystanders in the name of of of keeping

2956
02:48:35,959 --> 02:48:39,720
Speaker 1: things safe and UM. I think we're pretty clear and

2957
02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:42,440
Speaker 1: I think most reasonable people can see that that's not

2958
02:48:42,680 --> 02:48:47,000
Speaker 1: community self defense. But often those people uh certainly claim

2959
02:48:47,080 --> 02:48:50,200
Speaker 1: that what they're doing is community self defense UM. And

2960
02:48:50,560 --> 02:48:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm specifically wanting to start by getting a kind of

2961
02:48:53,720 --> 02:48:56,600
Speaker 1: a range of definitions from folks. As you are all

2962
02:48:56,640 --> 02:49:00,480
Speaker 1: people who have engaged in community self defense UM, and

2963
02:49:00,520 --> 02:49:04,480
Speaker 1: particularly armed community self defense. What do you see as

2964
02:49:04,800 --> 02:49:08,879
Speaker 1: the actual role of community self defense and how should

2965
02:49:08,879 --> 02:49:11,160
Speaker 1: it look as opposed to, you know, a guy with

2966
02:49:11,200 --> 02:49:14,320
Speaker 1: a paintball gun yelling at kids for tagging a window.

2967
02:49:15,160 --> 02:49:16,840
Speaker 1: Ray You wanna you want to kick us off with

2968
02:49:16,840 --> 02:49:21,880
Speaker 1: an answer there, I do. Community defense should be part

2969
02:49:21,920 --> 02:49:25,720
Speaker 1: of the a broad health and safety infrastructure set up

2970
02:49:25,800 --> 02:49:29,560
Speaker 1: for a protest movement or a community. Being deliberately vague here,

2971
02:49:30,160 --> 02:49:35,520
Speaker 1: but specifically, armed community defense deals with mitigating lethal and

2972
02:49:35,760 --> 02:49:39,600
Speaker 1: egregious harm to members of a community. The goal is

2973
02:49:39,640 --> 02:49:44,879
Speaker 1: forced and foremost prevention, mitigation and control of those threats.

2974
02:49:45,760 --> 02:49:49,560
Speaker 1: In my mind, ideally community defense would involve no one

2975
02:49:49,680 --> 02:49:52,600
Speaker 1: doing anything, carrying around a bunch of really heavy ship

2976
02:49:52,760 --> 02:49:56,920
Speaker 1: and nothing happening, but deterring those from harming others. In

2977
02:49:57,000 --> 02:49:59,680
Speaker 1: the absolute worst case, it means you have to actually

2978
02:49:59,800 --> 02:50:03,360
Speaker 1: do something that can get messy pretty quickly. I want

2979
02:50:03,360 --> 02:50:05,040
Speaker 1: to circle back to a couple of things. Actually, I

2980
02:50:05,040 --> 02:50:07,039
Speaker 1: do have one one quick follow up question for you

2981
02:50:07,080 --> 02:50:09,400
Speaker 1: before we move on to the next people. Ray, When

2982
02:50:09,520 --> 02:50:12,760
Speaker 1: you say like carrying heavy things and whatnot, I'm wondering,

2983
02:50:12,760 --> 02:50:15,800
Speaker 1: what do you think? I'm interested in you, and I'll

2984
02:50:15,800 --> 02:50:17,840
Speaker 1: probably ask other people to follow up when it when

2985
02:50:17,840 --> 02:50:20,320
Speaker 1: it comes to carrying and bringing a firearm to either

2986
02:50:20,480 --> 02:50:24,200
Speaker 1: a protest situation some other community self defense situation, what

2987
02:50:24,320 --> 02:50:26,440
Speaker 1: it is going through your head when you determine what

2988
02:50:26,640 --> 02:50:29,120
Speaker 1: to bring? Because I've seen people carry a variety of

2989
02:50:29,160 --> 02:50:32,040
Speaker 1: different guns from like shotguns and in one case is

2990
02:50:32,040 --> 02:50:35,800
Speaker 1: of mos and negat to a r S or handguns. Um,

2991
02:50:35,840 --> 02:50:38,840
Speaker 1: what do you think is kind of the the logic

2992
02:50:38,879 --> 02:50:40,520
Speaker 1: train I guess that you would take, Like, what is

2993
02:50:40,520 --> 02:50:45,160
Speaker 1: the appropriate tool to bring like in this situation? So

2994
02:50:45,600 --> 02:50:48,760
Speaker 1: that depends entirely on what the anticipated threat is and

2995
02:50:48,800 --> 02:50:52,120
Speaker 1: how one plans to mitigate the anticipated threat. There's no

2996
02:50:52,760 --> 02:50:57,160
Speaker 1: correct answer for that. Sometimes the answer to mitigate lethal

2997
02:50:57,280 --> 02:51:00,000
Speaker 1: or regious bodily harm is not a firearm at all. Indeed,

2998
02:51:00,040 --> 02:51:03,760
Speaker 1: firearms are applicable in an extraordinarily narrow range of scenarios,

2999
02:51:04,080 --> 02:51:08,039
Speaker 1: but those range of scenarios are catastrophic and need extreme

3000
02:51:08,040 --> 02:51:12,840
Speaker 1: measures to be mitigated. So it depends on what If

3001
02:51:12,840 --> 02:51:15,680
Speaker 1: you are considering bringing firearm, what is the firearm good

3002
02:51:15,680 --> 02:51:17,879
Speaker 1: at And then you get into the minutia of what

3003
02:51:18,000 --> 02:51:20,640
Speaker 1: firearm is good for what thing, which depends on your

3004
02:51:20,720 --> 02:51:24,039
Speaker 1: legal context and particular threat. But I think one has

3005
02:51:24,080 --> 02:51:26,080
Speaker 1: to start with the question is is the thing I'm

3006
02:51:26,120 --> 02:51:29,240
Speaker 1: bringing able to mitigate the type of harm I might

3007
02:51:29,280 --> 02:51:32,320
Speaker 1: see happen to my community, And to get a little

3008
02:51:32,320 --> 02:51:36,040
Speaker 1: bit less vague, there are people who think that bringing

3009
02:51:36,040 --> 02:51:37,720
Speaker 1: a shotgun is a good way to stop a car

3010
02:51:37,840 --> 02:51:42,000
Speaker 1: speeding into a crowd when it clearly isn't right. So

3011
02:51:42,120 --> 02:51:44,200
Speaker 1: one has to make sure that the tool, whatever they

3012
02:51:44,240 --> 02:51:47,720
Speaker 1: have is you is appropriate for the task at hand

3013
02:51:48,160 --> 02:51:51,800
Speaker 1: and the threat you anticipate. That was great, Thank you,

3014
02:51:51,879 --> 02:51:54,039
Speaker 1: ray um Katie, you want to you want to give

3015
02:51:54,080 --> 02:51:56,920
Speaker 1: us your answer next. I agree with everything that Race said,

3016
02:51:57,200 --> 02:52:00,800
Speaker 1: and the only addition that I'd make is that, um,

3017
02:52:00,920 --> 02:52:04,440
Speaker 1: it's specifically in our in our cases generally doesn't mean

3018
02:52:05,600 --> 02:52:11,760
Speaker 1: standing between protesters and police, but more guiding protesters, you know,

3019
02:52:11,800 --> 02:52:18,960
Speaker 1: our activists or participants away from potential situations of harm.

3020
02:52:19,000 --> 02:52:21,600
Speaker 1: It's like we can't stand in front of police and

3021
02:52:21,800 --> 02:52:24,959
Speaker 1: stop cops from doing their job like that just gets

3022
02:52:24,959 --> 02:52:29,040
Speaker 1: you arrested and uh or worse or worse, and that's

3023
02:52:29,080 --> 02:52:32,959
Speaker 1: not what we're here for. So yeah, that's all I

3024
02:52:32,959 --> 02:52:35,680
Speaker 1: wanted to, could you, because I have chatted with a

3025
02:52:35,680 --> 02:52:38,400
Speaker 1: couple of your number about this, about um, kind of

3026
02:52:38,440 --> 02:52:41,920
Speaker 1: the role that that an armed contingent at a protest

3027
02:52:41,959 --> 02:52:45,240
Speaker 1: can play in kind of allowing an avenue of retreat,

3028
02:52:45,640 --> 02:52:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, especially during confrontations with non state actors. UM,

3029
02:52:50,840 --> 02:52:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm interested in kind of what you um, you know

3030
02:52:54,000 --> 02:52:57,119
Speaker 1: you're not You're not to kind of as you did,

3031
02:52:57,160 --> 02:52:59,440
Speaker 1: kind of kind of clarify this conception. You don't see

3032
02:52:59,440 --> 02:53:01,800
Speaker 1: your role as ending in front of the protesters between

3033
02:53:01,840 --> 02:53:04,000
Speaker 1: them and the cops and like presenting a threat to

3034
02:53:04,040 --> 02:53:07,040
Speaker 1: the cops. What is the utility and kind of an

3035
02:53:07,040 --> 02:53:09,880
Speaker 1: act of protest situation that you've seen of of of

3036
02:53:09,920 --> 02:53:14,400
Speaker 1: what y'all do. So that's a good question. And UM,

3037
02:53:14,440 --> 02:53:18,600
Speaker 1: if we're doing our job well, then most people think

3038
02:53:18,600 --> 02:53:20,680
Speaker 1: we don't do anything at all. UM. A lot of

3039
02:53:20,680 --> 02:53:25,640
Speaker 1: what we do is we're watching external potential threats who

3040
02:53:25,760 --> 02:53:27,840
Speaker 1: might try to come in. The most common factor these

3041
02:53:27,920 --> 02:53:31,640
Speaker 1: days is a car UM, but generally we're looking for

3042
02:53:31,640 --> 02:53:34,760
Speaker 1: folks that might cause trouble and finding ensuring that we're

3043
02:53:34,760 --> 02:53:36,800
Speaker 1: not putting ourselves in a position where we're gonna get

3044
02:53:36,840 --> 02:53:41,200
Speaker 1: cornered or trapped, and and really you know, just trying

3045
02:53:41,200 --> 02:53:44,400
Speaker 1: to help facilitate and work with the facilitators and organizers

3046
02:53:45,240 --> 02:53:48,480
Speaker 1: to keep things, you know, progressing in a safe way.

3047
02:53:48,600 --> 02:53:52,640
Speaker 1: So as far as what we're protecting against threat wise,

3048
02:53:52,800 --> 02:53:55,879
Speaker 1: that that ranges from everything from like angry people who

3049
02:53:55,879 --> 02:53:58,119
Speaker 1: are just angry and trying to go home and getting

3050
02:53:58,120 --> 02:54:01,359
Speaker 1: blocked by a protest, to people who are who are

3051
02:54:01,840 --> 02:54:05,840
Speaker 1: actively looking to do harm to a movement that happens

3052
02:54:05,879 --> 02:54:10,039
Speaker 1: to be involved in the protests, or you know, maybe

3053
02:54:10,040 --> 02:54:13,440
Speaker 1: it's something as as as specific as a person who's

3054
02:54:13,480 --> 02:54:19,280
Speaker 1: looking to specifically do harm to UH organizers. So most

3055
02:54:19,280 --> 02:54:22,440
Speaker 1: of the time it's we're focused outward and and just

3056
02:54:22,560 --> 02:54:25,000
Speaker 1: making sure that our exits are are covered and that

3057
02:54:25,080 --> 02:54:31,400
Speaker 1: we have ways to get people away from potential bad situations. Um,

3058
02:54:31,560 --> 02:54:34,240
Speaker 1: that was great, Thank you, Katie Shannon, you want to

3059
02:54:34,240 --> 02:54:38,480
Speaker 1: give your answer, it absolutely thanks. I would add there's

3060
02:54:38,560 --> 02:54:42,080
Speaker 1: a really critical element to community defense that begins and

3061
02:54:42,240 --> 02:54:45,400
Speaker 1: ends with the word community. Obviously, there's a big difference

3062
02:54:45,440 --> 02:54:49,760
Speaker 1: between proclaiming yourself security and showing up someplace and being

3063
02:54:49,840 --> 02:54:55,160
Speaker 1: there as an intentional community support where the community plays

3064
02:54:55,160 --> 02:54:58,400
Speaker 1: a role in you being there and also has some

3065
02:54:58,520 --> 02:55:02,000
Speaker 1: influence on that question what are you carrying and what

3066
02:55:02,200 --> 02:55:04,840
Speaker 1: is the response? I think it's just really important that

3067
02:55:06,560 --> 02:55:11,199
Speaker 1: you keep the community aspect at the forefront, and that's

3068
02:55:11,440 --> 02:55:14,760
Speaker 1: a huge part of our collective work is making sure

3069
02:55:14,840 --> 02:55:23,039
Speaker 1: that when we're providing community defense, we're aligning ourselves with

3070
02:55:24,560 --> 02:55:27,520
Speaker 1: the desires of the community group that has asked us

3071
02:55:27,560 --> 02:55:31,360
Speaker 1: to be there, also filtering it through our judgment as

3072
02:55:31,400 --> 02:55:35,080
Speaker 1: to what's safe and appropriate under the circumstances, using some

3073
02:55:35,160 --> 02:55:38,280
Speaker 1: of those filters that Ray mentioned when they were answering

3074
02:55:41,080 --> 02:55:46,440
Speaker 1: and what do you see as like like, this is

3075
02:55:46,480 --> 02:55:49,240
Speaker 1: something that I kind of gets to both what what

3076
02:55:49,360 --> 02:55:50,840
Speaker 1: is an issue with me? And kind of the folks

3077
02:55:50,840 --> 02:55:53,360
Speaker 1: who declare themselves a security, which is that they're often

3078
02:55:53,440 --> 02:55:56,199
Speaker 1: kind of separating themselves from the rest of the movement,

3079
02:55:56,640 --> 02:55:58,800
Speaker 1: specifically in a cop like way to say like, well,

3080
02:55:58,800 --> 02:56:00,640
Speaker 1: it's my job to keep you ad even though that

3081
02:56:00,720 --> 02:56:03,200
Speaker 1: means or it's my job to keep things order leaven

3082
02:56:03,240 --> 02:56:06,039
Speaker 1: if that means attacking some other people at this protest.

3083
02:56:06,560 --> 02:56:09,760
Speaker 1: One of the things that Scott Crowe in is uh

3084
02:56:09,800 --> 02:56:12,240
Speaker 1: in Setting Sights, which is a really good book on

3085
02:56:12,280 --> 02:56:17,480
Speaker 1: community self defense, does is set out that, um, a

3086
02:56:17,560 --> 02:56:20,240
Speaker 1: key aspect of community self defense, as you said, is

3087
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:23,600
Speaker 1: that you're like a member of the community. And I think,

3088
02:56:23,600 --> 02:56:27,119
Speaker 1: I guess the question I have is because guns are

3089
02:56:27,240 --> 02:56:29,680
Speaker 1: what they are and have the kind of cultural weight

3090
02:56:29,760 --> 02:56:33,959
Speaker 1: that they have, it's you people are always people who

3091
02:56:34,160 --> 02:56:37,879
Speaker 1: accept being armed as an aspect of their personality are

3092
02:56:37,920 --> 02:56:41,440
Speaker 1: always going to be kind of fighting having that dominate

3093
02:56:41,480 --> 02:56:46,520
Speaker 1: their personality. And it wouldn't It's clearly something that a

3094
02:56:46,560 --> 02:56:48,879
Speaker 1: lot of people have an issue with. The thing that

3095
02:56:49,000 --> 02:56:51,800
Speaker 1: is important is to be a member of the community

3096
02:56:51,840 --> 02:56:55,400
Speaker 1: who happens to be armed, as opposed to an armed

3097
02:56:55,480 --> 02:56:59,200
Speaker 1: activist whose whose role is being armed. Right, Like I

3098
02:56:59,440 --> 02:57:01,840
Speaker 1: I mean, do you agree with what I'm saying? Are

3099
02:57:01,879 --> 02:57:03,600
Speaker 1: kind of like I'm wondering how you think about it,

3100
02:57:03,600 --> 02:57:05,360
Speaker 1: because this is something that I'm kind of going around

3101
02:57:05,360 --> 02:57:08,199
Speaker 1: in my head about as well, because it's it's it's

3102
02:57:08,200 --> 02:57:10,400
Speaker 1: clearly where a lot of the problems happen, right that

3103
02:57:10,480 --> 02:57:13,720
Speaker 1: the gun becomes central to the identity of the people

3104
02:57:13,720 --> 02:57:16,120
Speaker 1: who bring it, which is something that happens to the

3105
02:57:16,160 --> 02:57:21,320
Speaker 1: cops yes, and also the mentality of separating yourself from

3106
02:57:21,320 --> 02:57:26,959
Speaker 1: the community and not being part of the purpose of

3107
02:57:27,000 --> 02:57:31,680
Speaker 1: being there. And so I'll defer to my my comrades

3108
02:57:31,720 --> 02:57:33,280
Speaker 1: here to go a little bit further with it, but

3109
02:57:33,320 --> 02:57:37,400
Speaker 1: I would just say that there's a significant difference between

3110
02:57:38,320 --> 02:57:42,920
Speaker 1: armed community defense and having an intentional presence of armed

3111
02:57:42,920 --> 02:57:49,320
Speaker 1: community defense at an event or protest and being a

3112
02:57:49,400 --> 02:57:51,800
Speaker 1: person who shows up with a gun. Those are two

3113
02:57:51,840 --> 02:57:56,000
Speaker 1: really different things, and so I think that's the that's

3114
02:57:56,160 --> 02:58:01,560
Speaker 1: one of the benefits of being part of an organization

3115
02:58:01,720 --> 02:58:11,879
Speaker 1: that does this collectively, with accountability, with training, with a

3116
02:58:12,040 --> 02:58:16,359
Speaker 1: known role in the community, so that there is um

3117
02:58:16,560 --> 02:58:19,119
Speaker 1: consistency among what we do and why we do it,

3118
02:58:19,440 --> 02:58:25,160
Speaker 1: and a history of folks understanding that if we're present somewhere,

3119
02:58:25,160 --> 02:58:28,160
Speaker 1: it's because we've been asked to be there, and that

3120
02:58:28,320 --> 02:58:33,000
Speaker 1: what we're doing there is aligned with and approved of

3121
02:58:33,080 --> 02:58:36,840
Speaker 1: by the people who are organizing the event. And then

3122
02:58:37,120 --> 02:58:39,480
Speaker 1: I'll let somebody else who's more eloquent than I am

3123
02:58:40,120 --> 02:58:43,920
Speaker 1: uh answered that further if they feel like they can. Yeah,

3124
02:58:43,959 --> 02:58:46,840
Speaker 1: I think Nova is up now. If you wanted to

3125
02:58:46,879 --> 02:58:49,400
Speaker 1: give your answer and kind of also comment on what

3126
02:58:49,520 --> 02:58:51,760
Speaker 1: we've been chatting about what Channon and I were just

3127
02:58:51,840 --> 02:58:55,280
Speaker 1: chatting about Nova. Hi, thank you so much. UM. I

3128
02:58:55,320 --> 02:58:58,920
Speaker 1: would say that folks like Ray and Katie and of

3129
02:58:58,959 --> 02:59:01,880
Speaker 1: course Shannon really put it very systemictly, very well together

3130
02:59:02,120 --> 02:59:03,800
Speaker 1: and answered a lot of the things that I was

3131
02:59:03,800 --> 02:59:06,039
Speaker 1: gonna already provided things that I was going to add

3132
02:59:06,080 --> 02:59:10,760
Speaker 1: to it. But um, the specifically the part about the

3133
02:59:10,800 --> 02:59:16,200
Speaker 1: gun becoming the driving factor in somebody's presence at the protest,

3134
02:59:16,280 --> 02:59:19,959
Speaker 1: or the gun being a part of the personality of

3135
02:59:20,000 --> 02:59:23,560
Speaker 1: somebody who is going to appoint themselves as a guardian

3136
02:59:23,600 --> 02:59:26,720
Speaker 1: towards a bunch of people, I would I would say

3137
02:59:26,760 --> 02:59:31,840
Speaker 1: that with any responsible community community defense role within a

3138
02:59:31,879 --> 02:59:36,200
Speaker 1: protest context, that the act of being a body in

3139
02:59:36,200 --> 02:59:40,959
Speaker 1: between a threat and your community has to come first,

3140
02:59:41,080 --> 02:59:47,080
Speaker 1: and that the that the firearm has to be secondary. Um. Uh.

3141
02:59:47,120 --> 02:59:50,640
Speaker 1: There there was an incident on the night of protest

3142
02:59:50,680 --> 02:59:54,280
Speaker 1: where uh many of us were at risk of being

3143
02:59:54,360 --> 02:59:59,160
Speaker 1: harmed by a vehicle attack, and uh, in retrospect, a

3144
02:59:59,200 --> 03:00:02,840
Speaker 1: firearm would not have mitigated that threat terribly well. But

3145
03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:07,640
Speaker 1: the idea of being in between a threat such as

3146
03:00:07,680 --> 03:00:11,520
Speaker 1: that and somebody else who is possibly more vulnerable than

3147
03:00:11,600 --> 03:00:15,320
Speaker 1: you are bore a lot more of a significance on that.

3148
03:00:15,440 --> 03:00:19,640
Speaker 1: So the firearm being there to respond to a threat

3149
03:00:19,680 --> 03:00:23,320
Speaker 1: and perhaps mitigate an active, ongoing deadly threat to your

3150
03:00:23,320 --> 03:00:26,520
Speaker 1: community is one thing, But I think the primary thing

3151
03:00:26,600 --> 03:00:30,280
Speaker 1: is going to be just putting yourself in harm's way

3152
03:00:30,760 --> 03:00:34,960
Speaker 1: so that you can spare that responsibility from somebody possibly

3153
03:00:34,959 --> 03:00:37,480
Speaker 1: more vulnerable than you. If that makes sense, that should

3154
03:00:37,480 --> 03:00:41,280
Speaker 1: be the primary responsibility. And um, how do you avoid

3155
03:00:42,280 --> 03:00:46,879
Speaker 1: letting that turn people doing that into feeling like a

3156
03:00:47,000 --> 03:00:52,400
Speaker 1: separate and even elevated chunk of the community. Because that again,

3157
03:00:52,440 --> 03:00:54,640
Speaker 1: that's what happens with police. You know, this idea that

3158
03:00:54,680 --> 03:00:56,360
Speaker 1: it starts as like, well, we're here to serve and

3159
03:00:56,400 --> 03:01:01,519
Speaker 1: protect um, and that that, through of variety of toxic alchemies,

3160
03:01:01,560 --> 03:01:04,800
Speaker 1: turns into this idea of the thin blue line. What

3161
03:01:04,959 --> 03:01:07,120
Speaker 1: is the way you push back on that? How do

3162
03:01:07,160 --> 03:01:10,920
Speaker 1: you actually stop it from going from I'm someone who

3163
03:01:11,040 --> 03:01:13,800
Speaker 1: is accepting personal responsibility for the well being of the

3164
03:01:13,840 --> 03:01:16,720
Speaker 1: people around me, UM and putting my body in between

3165
03:01:16,760 --> 03:01:20,680
Speaker 1: them on harm's way if necessary, uh, to I it's

3166
03:01:20,720 --> 03:01:23,320
Speaker 1: my job to protect people, to it's my job to

3167
03:01:23,879 --> 03:01:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, from turning that into kind of this idea

3168
03:01:26,360 --> 03:01:29,920
Speaker 1: of I think stewardship in some ways that like some

3169
03:01:29,959 --> 03:01:33,800
Speaker 1: people in law enforcement have where like you're there, they

3170
03:01:33,879 --> 03:01:35,800
Speaker 1: they get to tell you what to do because that's

3171
03:01:35,800 --> 03:01:38,240
Speaker 1: their responsibility to keep you safe. Like, how do you

3172
03:01:38,680 --> 03:01:41,680
Speaker 1: how do you stop that attitude from evolving? Because I've

3173
03:01:41,760 --> 03:01:45,680
Speaker 1: seen it happen to people fairly quickly when they put

3174
03:01:45,720 --> 03:01:48,840
Speaker 1: themselves in some of these situations sometimes and it's certainly

3175
03:01:48,840 --> 03:01:52,000
Speaker 1: not like most people, but it is. It doesn't take

3176
03:01:52,800 --> 03:01:57,160
Speaker 1: a long time for somebody to, like especially if they're vulnerable,

3177
03:01:57,360 --> 03:01:59,520
Speaker 1: to get in that position. So how do you, especially

3178
03:01:59,600 --> 03:02:02,280
Speaker 1: if you're approaching it from an organizational standpoint, right, you're

3179
03:02:02,280 --> 03:02:06,320
Speaker 1: an organization made up of people who come to do this,

3180
03:02:06,440 --> 03:02:08,480
Speaker 1: how do you fight back against that? Like? What is

3181
03:02:08,520 --> 03:02:14,720
Speaker 1: the active kind of counter programming? If you will? I'd

3182
03:02:14,760 --> 03:02:18,840
Speaker 1: say I don't have an easy answer for that question,

3183
03:02:19,280 --> 03:02:21,400
Speaker 1: to be completely honest with you, but I say that

3184
03:02:21,440 --> 03:02:24,800
Speaker 1: the closest thing, uh to an answer to that would

3185
03:02:24,840 --> 03:02:30,200
Speaker 1: be that and almost you know, monastic devotion to the

3186
03:02:30,360 --> 03:02:34,560
Speaker 1: task that was acts asked of you by the group

3187
03:02:34,600 --> 03:02:38,480
Speaker 1: that asked you there. Um So if somebody asked us

3188
03:02:38,520 --> 03:02:41,160
Speaker 1: to be a part of a march and to simply

3189
03:02:41,200 --> 03:02:45,360
Speaker 1: look outward for external threats and to be willing to

3190
03:02:45,400 --> 03:02:47,840
Speaker 1: respond to those threats of need, be again putting our

3191
03:02:47,879 --> 03:02:50,959
Speaker 1: bodies in harm's way, but also be willing to respond

3192
03:02:51,000 --> 03:02:56,200
Speaker 1: to lethal force and kind should the worst case scenario arise. UM.

3193
03:02:57,280 --> 03:03:01,720
Speaker 1: I'd say that the ult accountability rest with the people

3194
03:03:01,760 --> 03:03:06,960
Speaker 1: who asked you to be there. Uh. And there's no

3195
03:03:07,080 --> 03:03:10,480
Speaker 1: easy answer as to what that mechanism of accountability looks like.

3196
03:03:11,520 --> 03:03:14,920
Speaker 1: But you know, in several layers, that would start with

3197
03:03:15,520 --> 03:03:18,560
Speaker 1: your teammates, the people who are part of your organization

3198
03:03:18,600 --> 03:03:21,240
Speaker 1: that asked you to be that is asked to be there.

3199
03:03:21,280 --> 03:03:25,960
Speaker 1: So other members of of j B g C are

3200
03:03:26,000 --> 03:03:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, definitely going to try and keep each other accountable.

3201
03:03:30,400 --> 03:03:35,480
Speaker 1: But it's also the larger, the the the the the

3202
03:03:35,560 --> 03:03:37,920
Speaker 1: larger contingent of the action that you're a part of.

3203
03:03:38,480 --> 03:03:42,840
Speaker 1: UH to be ultimately willing to back down from whatever

3204
03:03:42,920 --> 03:03:47,560
Speaker 1: you're doing if a concern is voiced by that community.

3205
03:03:47,680 --> 03:03:53,959
Speaker 1: And I wish I had a better way to word that, uh,

3206
03:03:53,959 --> 03:03:59,800
Speaker 1: But just the the the the constant vigilance within oneself

3207
03:03:59,840 --> 03:04:03,560
Speaker 1: against overstepping the boundaries that were clearly set by people

3208
03:04:03,600 --> 03:04:07,560
Speaker 1: who invited you into a space. UM, that's really the

3209
03:04:07,600 --> 03:04:09,640
Speaker 1: best answer I can get for that at the moment

3210
03:04:09,959 --> 03:04:13,680
Speaker 1: without further percolating. Well, I mean, yeah, for for one thing,

3211
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:16,560
Speaker 1: I think this is the reason we're having this conversation.

3212
03:04:16,760 --> 03:04:18,680
Speaker 1: And I'm getting ahead of us a little as because

3213
03:04:19,480 --> 03:04:22,200
Speaker 1: this is still very much a developing thing on the

3214
03:04:22,320 --> 03:04:25,160
Speaker 1: left and and I don't think anybody has all the

3215
03:04:25,200 --> 03:04:28,320
Speaker 1: answers on how to do it well, although I think

3216
03:04:28,360 --> 03:04:32,840
Speaker 1: an increasing number of folks except the necessity. UM. So

3217
03:04:33,040 --> 03:04:35,359
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason for the conversation.

3218
03:04:35,480 --> 03:04:38,320
Speaker 1: Is this like continuing exploration of how to actually do

3219
03:04:38,360 --> 03:04:41,240
Speaker 1: this responsibly. UM. But I do think you hit on

3220
03:04:41,320 --> 03:04:46,200
Speaker 1: something important there when you talked about the that you're

3221
03:04:46,240 --> 03:04:49,920
Speaker 1: there at the invitation of a community as opposed to

3222
03:04:50,600 --> 03:04:54,000
Speaker 1: you are there too to police or to maintain order.

3223
03:04:54,160 --> 03:04:57,200
Speaker 1: Like the idea of approaching it as if you were

3224
03:04:57,240 --> 03:05:00,760
Speaker 1: to guess strikes me as a really good idea, um,

3225
03:05:01,280 --> 03:05:06,760
Speaker 1: in order to keep yourself on a certain behavioral um standpoint,

3226
03:05:06,800 --> 03:05:09,640
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm I'm here at the request of this

3227
03:05:09,680 --> 03:05:12,520
Speaker 1: community as their guest, as opposed to I am here

3228
03:05:12,560 --> 03:05:17,880
Speaker 1: to protect this community. You know, absolutely, that's a that's

3229
03:05:17,879 --> 03:05:20,520
Speaker 1: a that's a perfect way to summarize what I was

3230
03:05:20,520 --> 03:05:23,600
Speaker 1: trying to go for with that one. I think that

3231
03:05:23,680 --> 03:05:28,200
Speaker 1: the ultimately to be averse to being put in a

3232
03:05:28,200 --> 03:05:31,959
Speaker 1: position of power or authority is the best way to

3233
03:05:32,080 --> 03:05:37,080
Speaker 1: check against that UM and to simply be a servant

3234
03:05:37,440 --> 03:05:40,760
Speaker 1: to the community. That is again inviting you into that

3235
03:05:40,879 --> 03:05:47,520
Speaker 1: space and putting yourself in a m servile is not

3236
03:05:47,600 --> 03:05:50,000
Speaker 1: the right word. I'm looking for a different word for that,

3237
03:05:50,120 --> 03:05:55,680
Speaker 1: but a a position of service, a true position like

3238
03:05:55,680 --> 03:06:00,840
Speaker 1: like yes, what what what community and should be is

3239
03:06:00,920 --> 03:06:04,720
Speaker 1: ultimately a service and a burden rather than a reward

3240
03:06:05,000 --> 03:06:12,040
Speaker 1: of responsibility and power over your fellow community members. Okay, yeah, great,

3241
03:06:12,280 --> 03:06:15,320
Speaker 1: I think next was Ray again, Um, you had something

3242
03:06:15,360 --> 03:06:18,920
Speaker 1: to say there. Yeah, I'll just finish that thought in

3243
03:06:18,959 --> 03:06:21,280
Speaker 1: my notes under the section of what happens when things

3244
03:06:21,320 --> 03:06:23,920
Speaker 1: go right. I think one thing that can go right

3245
03:06:24,200 --> 03:06:29,119
Speaker 1: is normalizing that firearms are just a thing that can

3246
03:06:29,160 --> 03:06:31,760
Speaker 1: be around and they don't have to be your entire

3247
03:06:31,800 --> 03:06:36,080
Speaker 1: as personality, nor do they have to be a differentiating factor. Indeed,

3248
03:06:36,120 --> 03:06:38,560
Speaker 1: I think one of the successes they are not many,

3249
03:06:38,640 --> 03:06:43,320
Speaker 1: but of community defense in the chop was normalizing the

3250
03:06:43,360 --> 03:06:45,560
Speaker 1: idea that people can have firearms and they're not an

3251
03:06:45,600 --> 03:06:49,760
Speaker 1: inherent threat UM thinking of people who are armed often

3252
03:06:49,800 --> 03:06:52,600
Speaker 1: and we're pointed out routinely, and I was like, Nah,

3253
03:06:52,680 --> 03:06:55,760
Speaker 1: he's still he's He's a cool dude, you know, just

3254
03:06:55,879 --> 03:06:59,440
Speaker 1: a guy just like I think. It's like, you know,

3255
03:06:59,480 --> 03:07:01,000
Speaker 1: do you really think the black guy is going to

3256
03:07:01,040 --> 03:07:03,800
Speaker 1: shoot up the top? I don't know that. He's totally fine.

3257
03:07:03,800 --> 03:07:06,720
Speaker 1: I know him. His jokes are great. Um. Again, an

3258
03:07:06,720 --> 03:07:10,200
Speaker 1: overhearing of these kind of conversations, it helps, you know,

3259
03:07:10,280 --> 03:07:12,800
Speaker 1: firearms become like part of the tapestry of life, not

3260
03:07:12,879 --> 03:07:16,400
Speaker 1: this differentiating factor, not a beauty item, not something to

3261
03:07:16,440 --> 03:07:18,879
Speaker 1: write your personality around. It's just like they're there and

3262
03:07:19,000 --> 03:07:21,240
Speaker 1: that they can be good, bad, right, wrong, or in

3263
03:07:21,320 --> 03:07:24,600
Speaker 1: different And I think that normalizing effect is one of

3264
03:07:24,600 --> 03:07:27,320
Speaker 1: the successes community defense can have. And I'm happy to

3265
03:07:27,320 --> 03:07:29,960
Speaker 1: talk about other things that community defense can normalize, but

3266
03:07:29,959 --> 03:07:32,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to emphasize the you just have a firearm.

3267
03:07:33,120 --> 03:07:34,920
Speaker 1: You're not talking about it, you're not touching it, you're

3268
03:07:34,920 --> 03:07:37,080
Speaker 1: not thinking about it. You know people have that. It's

3269
03:07:37,080 --> 03:07:39,720
Speaker 1: just around and it became pretty chill, and there is

3270
03:07:39,800 --> 03:07:43,160
Speaker 1: kind of the chop. Specifically, there's an area where firearms

3271
03:07:43,200 --> 03:07:45,920
Speaker 1: just kind of were around and nothing happened really and

3272
03:07:47,520 --> 03:07:52,280
Speaker 1: that was kind of wonderful in my mind. So from

3273
03:07:52,280 --> 03:07:57,720
Speaker 1: my experience with with the club, Uh, it's basically like

3274
03:07:58,200 --> 03:08:00,600
Speaker 1: even though we are the John Brown Gun Club, the

3275
03:08:00,680 --> 03:08:06,760
Speaker 1: guns are like the last thing that we even consider. Like, Uh,

3276
03:08:06,879 --> 03:08:09,240
Speaker 1: it would technically if we were to actually rename the club,

3277
03:08:09,240 --> 03:08:12,240
Speaker 1: it would be the John Brown de Escalation Club. Um,

3278
03:08:12,280 --> 03:08:16,480
Speaker 1: we would like most of the time any um, any

3279
03:08:16,560 --> 03:08:18,720
Speaker 1: anything that's gone on. Even when I did visit the

3280
03:08:18,760 --> 03:08:21,160
Speaker 1: Chop and there was some weird stuff going on, like

3281
03:08:21,720 --> 03:08:27,720
Speaker 1: Brother Matthew being Brother Matthew, people were um using their

3282
03:08:27,760 --> 03:08:32,280
Speaker 1: skills to um to d escalate situation, to calm the

3283
03:08:32,400 --> 03:08:35,560
Speaker 1: calm out, calm down individuals, to make sure that that

3284
03:08:35,800 --> 03:08:41,360
Speaker 1: whatever hostility they have would be abated through just verbal

3285
03:08:41,520 --> 03:08:45,160
Speaker 1: verbal communications. Talk about that in a little more to

3286
03:08:45,240 --> 03:08:46,600
Speaker 1: tail because I don't know who I mean, I was

3287
03:08:46,640 --> 03:08:48,480
Speaker 1: at the Chazz briefly, but I don't know who Brother

3288
03:08:48,520 --> 03:08:50,680
Speaker 1: Matthew was or like what incident you're talking about. Something

3289
03:08:52,080 --> 03:08:56,160
Speaker 1: is a guy who shows up up here all around

3290
03:08:56,160 --> 03:08:59,120
Speaker 1: the Seattle area and also I think he's even up

3291
03:08:59,160 --> 03:09:03,200
Speaker 1: in Portland as well. Um, preacher guy gets in everybody's faces,

3292
03:09:03,920 --> 03:09:08,920
Speaker 1: usually not liked by everybody, super afraid of snakes, thanks Jerry. Um.

3293
03:09:08,959 --> 03:09:13,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, he like like he's he's a person who

3294
03:09:13,400 --> 03:09:17,920
Speaker 1: drives off a confrontation and uses the Bible as as

3295
03:09:17,959 --> 03:09:23,480
Speaker 1: his mode of of operation. But Um, I remember distinctly

3296
03:09:23,560 --> 03:09:27,480
Speaker 1: at at the chop Um he was getting it, getting

3297
03:09:27,520 --> 03:09:32,199
Speaker 1: into it with people. But everybody who was around tried

3298
03:09:32,240 --> 03:09:34,920
Speaker 1: to talk him down. They tried to chill make him

3299
03:09:34,959 --> 03:09:39,439
Speaker 1: chill out, even though he was continually screaming for attention

3300
03:09:39,600 --> 03:09:45,800
Speaker 1: and just being weird. But um, but in the end,

3301
03:09:45,920 --> 03:09:49,680
Speaker 1: UM like that's just like that happens more often with

3302
03:09:50,360 --> 03:09:55,920
Speaker 1: protests situations or marked situations or direct action situations where

3303
03:09:56,080 --> 03:09:59,800
Speaker 1: we're asked to be a part of it by the organizers.

3304
03:10:00,040 --> 03:10:04,080
Speaker 1: And and as um Ray had mentioned and Nova had mentioned, um,

3305
03:10:04,160 --> 03:10:08,640
Speaker 1: we like we're asked to be there and we're not

3306
03:10:08,680 --> 03:10:10,560
Speaker 1: just asking and then we suddenly show up, like we

3307
03:10:10,760 --> 03:10:14,560
Speaker 1: get involved with the people who are organizing, any of

3308
03:10:14,600 --> 03:10:17,959
Speaker 1: the partners that they that they of, that they get

3309
03:10:18,240 --> 03:10:21,680
Speaker 1: that they bring into it. We try to learn as

3310
03:10:21,800 --> 03:10:26,279
Speaker 1: much about what's going on with them, who are the threats, Where,

3311
03:10:26,280 --> 03:10:29,200
Speaker 1: where the event is, how the event is um going

3312
03:10:29,240 --> 03:10:31,640
Speaker 1: to be thought of? We ask a lot of questions

3313
03:10:31,680 --> 03:10:34,200
Speaker 1: about it, Like we plan and plan and plan and

3314
03:10:34,240 --> 03:10:37,600
Speaker 1: plan to make sure that everything is super safe or

3315
03:10:37,600 --> 03:10:41,680
Speaker 1: as safe as possible based on all known variables and UH,

3316
03:10:41,720 --> 03:10:43,680
Speaker 1: and then the stuff that's unknown, we do our best

3317
03:10:43,720 --> 03:10:47,640
Speaker 1: to mitigate that somehow. Yes we are armed, but that's

3318
03:10:47,680 --> 03:10:50,200
Speaker 1: like the last thing that we ever even think of,

3319
03:10:50,280 --> 03:10:53,720
Speaker 1: and that's even in our planning. Like we say, flat out,

3320
03:10:54,440 --> 03:10:58,080
Speaker 1: de escalate first. Um, if things start to ratch it up,

3321
03:10:58,520 --> 03:11:02,080
Speaker 1: respond in kind. So like if someone you know, like

3322
03:11:02,200 --> 03:11:05,080
Speaker 1: tries to like I don't know, like starts to fistfight,

3323
03:11:05,240 --> 03:11:08,720
Speaker 1: We're not going to pull out a gun on someone

3324
03:11:08,720 --> 03:11:12,520
Speaker 1: who wants to box somebody on the street. We're going

3325
03:11:12,600 --> 03:11:18,039
Speaker 1: to do our best to stop So stop them through

3326
03:11:18,120 --> 03:11:21,480
Speaker 1: other means, like whether if it's just to block a

3327
03:11:21,520 --> 03:11:25,160
Speaker 1: punch or whatever. But the first things and foremost is

3328
03:11:25,400 --> 03:11:29,960
Speaker 1: de escalation. Calm, calm that person down and tell them

3329
03:11:29,959 --> 03:11:33,359
Speaker 1: to go away or just to chill out or whatever

3330
03:11:33,480 --> 03:11:37,440
Speaker 1: the whatever is necessary. I mean de escalation. All of

3331
03:11:37,480 --> 03:11:40,360
Speaker 1: the best community self defense that I've personally watched has

3332
03:11:40,400 --> 03:11:44,600
Speaker 1: been de escalation. Um, you know, they're they're not the

3333
03:11:44,640 --> 03:11:47,440
Speaker 1: only situations I've seen. I've seen force used a couple

3334
03:11:47,480 --> 03:11:50,720
Speaker 1: of times in situations that were necessary but by far,

3335
03:11:50,920 --> 03:11:56,119
Speaker 1: de escalation is the thing I've seen, um actually protect

3336
03:11:56,200 --> 03:12:00,200
Speaker 1: people in dicey situations the most um and generally that

3337
03:12:00,200 --> 03:12:02,880
Speaker 1: that's going to be the case. Yeah, I know for myself,

3338
03:12:03,320 --> 03:12:07,240
Speaker 1: Like my attitude is we all go home. Everybody who

3339
03:12:07,240 --> 03:12:11,800
Speaker 1: shows up there goes home, not to the hospital, not

3340
03:12:11,920 --> 03:12:15,800
Speaker 1: to jail, or not to the morgue. We all go home. Yeah,

3341
03:12:15,920 --> 03:12:18,160
Speaker 1: I think that's definitely seems like the best way to

3342
03:12:18,200 --> 03:12:22,360
Speaker 1: look at it. So into the specific question of how

3343
03:12:22,360 --> 03:12:26,039
Speaker 1: not to become a cop in this position and become

3344
03:12:26,040 --> 03:12:29,640
Speaker 1: the gun the only way I've been able to do

3345
03:12:29,720 --> 03:12:33,959
Speaker 1: anything in that regard has been to not have that

3346
03:12:34,000 --> 03:12:37,480
Speaker 1: be my primary thing that I fulfilled. I'm part of

3347
03:12:37,480 --> 03:12:40,720
Speaker 1: a community and I'm a mechanical person this community. I

3348
03:12:41,160 --> 03:12:45,720
Speaker 1: try to have my mission be not that other skill

3349
03:12:45,760 --> 03:12:48,480
Speaker 1: set or that other access to being of an aid

3350
03:12:49,120 --> 03:12:54,360
Speaker 1: to a community, be my actual purpose in the community.

3351
03:12:54,800 --> 03:13:02,040
Speaker 1: If that makes any sense. M Yeah, that makes complete sense. Um,

3352
03:13:02,120 --> 03:13:05,120
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think is the healthiest way to to

3353
03:13:05,200 --> 03:13:08,320
Speaker 1: deal with it. So something I've been wondering about as

3354
03:13:08,400 --> 03:13:13,160
Speaker 1: so I'm like not armed at all, So I guess

3355
03:13:13,160 --> 03:13:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm on like the other the other side of defence

3356
03:13:15,360 --> 03:13:18,640
Speaker 1: of the sort of community self defense think that people

3357
03:13:18,640 --> 03:13:20,720
Speaker 1: show up to protests, um. And so something I was

3358
03:13:20,760 --> 03:13:24,160
Speaker 1: wondering about is is the relationship between this stuff and

3359
03:13:25,120 --> 03:13:27,320
Speaker 1: you know, between the sort of cop mentality development and

3360
03:13:27,480 --> 03:13:31,840
Speaker 1: the difficulty of sort of integrating to the community of

3361
03:13:33,360 --> 03:13:37,879
Speaker 1: having organizations that are basically independent security groups and not

3362
03:13:38,160 --> 03:13:42,520
Speaker 1: for example, like taking like I don't know, take like

3363
03:13:42,560 --> 03:13:45,280
Speaker 1: an historical example, like there was a thing in China

3364
03:13:45,360 --> 03:13:47,440
Speaker 1: you'd see a lot in in like the nine hundreds,

3365
03:13:47,480 --> 03:13:50,320
Speaker 1: where you know, you'd have armed pickets, right, and so

3366
03:13:50,480 --> 03:13:52,320
Speaker 1: you you you have an armed force there, but the

3367
03:13:52,400 --> 03:13:54,360
Speaker 1: armed force is like you know, this is this is

3368
03:13:54,400 --> 03:13:56,440
Speaker 1: like a branch of the union, right, And that's that's

3369
03:13:56,480 --> 03:13:59,040
Speaker 1: how they sort of like like that that was their

3370
03:13:59,080 --> 03:14:01,440
Speaker 1: sort of solution to how do you stop cops syndrome?

3371
03:14:01,600 --> 03:14:04,560
Speaker 1: Is that you know they're they're they're basically like a

3372
03:14:05,040 --> 03:14:11,920
Speaker 1: part of another community organization. And so I'm curious what

3373
03:14:12,040 --> 03:14:15,560
Speaker 1: you all think about what the sort of I guess

3374
03:14:15,560 --> 03:14:19,840
Speaker 1: that the strengths and weaknesses of being an independent or

3375
03:14:20,120 --> 03:14:27,000
Speaker 1: having having sort of independent security organizations versus having I

3376
03:14:27,000 --> 03:14:30,480
Speaker 1: guess subsections of other organizations that are armed. Yeah, I

3377
03:14:30,520 --> 03:14:33,119
Speaker 1: feel like I can offer a unique perspective here as

3378
03:14:33,160 --> 03:14:37,160
Speaker 1: someone who's been privy to multiple angles of this, including

3379
03:14:37,680 --> 03:14:41,760
Speaker 1: separate organizations, ones integrated with others, and ones that are

3380
03:14:41,800 --> 03:14:45,400
Speaker 1: sort of just parts of the community, I don't think

3381
03:14:45,440 --> 03:14:49,920
Speaker 1: there's any like inherent, sort of best answer here. I

3382
03:14:49,959 --> 03:14:53,640
Speaker 1: do think being part of a separate organization makes it

3383
03:14:53,680 --> 03:14:58,320
Speaker 1: harder to be in the community versus of the community,

3384
03:14:58,480 --> 03:15:01,280
Speaker 1: meaning you came from the community, now you're sort of

3385
03:15:01,360 --> 03:15:05,959
Speaker 1: kind of separate but not really UM Like JB in particular,

3386
03:15:06,080 --> 03:15:08,680
Speaker 1: has a perpetual problem with people saying, oh, you know,

3387
03:15:09,760 --> 03:15:12,440
Speaker 1: John Brown will do X, and this is something that

3388
03:15:12,520 --> 03:15:16,160
Speaker 1: has been discussed, and often this is to people's immense fire.

3389
03:15:16,240 --> 03:15:17,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for everyone here, but it

3390
03:15:17,959 --> 03:15:20,760
Speaker 1: does seem to be that so seldom does one wish

3391
03:15:20,800 --> 03:15:24,200
Speaker 1: to be said, oh hello. It's kind of like saying, oh,

3392
03:15:24,240 --> 03:15:26,320
Speaker 1: the Union will solve this, and it's like, turns out

3393
03:15:26,360 --> 03:15:30,080
Speaker 1: you're the Union buddy, um right, and never referred to

3394
03:15:30,120 --> 03:15:32,160
Speaker 1: be union in the first person. So I do think

3395
03:15:32,280 --> 03:15:35,240
Speaker 1: being embedded into other groups, or being sort of this loose,

3396
03:15:35,320 --> 03:15:39,160
Speaker 1: diffuse group can make it easier to be part of

3397
03:15:39,200 --> 03:15:43,400
Speaker 1: the community because of the structural forces that make that um.

3398
03:15:43,440 --> 03:15:47,080
Speaker 1: It is easier to get there. A separate organization can

3399
03:15:47,120 --> 03:15:52,640
Speaker 1: help focus and codify certain procedures training, you know, make

3400
03:15:52,680 --> 03:15:55,039
Speaker 1: sure that people have some sort of unified goals and

3401
03:15:55,160 --> 03:15:58,039
Speaker 1: values at the expense of making it a bit harder

3402
03:15:58,040 --> 03:16:01,959
Speaker 1: to integrate into one's community. I think given the era

3403
03:16:02,120 --> 03:16:05,560
Speaker 1: we're in, I'm not surprised we see many many approaches

3404
03:16:05,600 --> 03:16:09,560
Speaker 1: to community defense with varying effectiveness at different times, including

3405
03:16:09,879 --> 03:16:17,680
Speaker 1: JBS perspective. Yeah, and um, I guess I'm interested as

3406
03:16:17,720 --> 03:16:21,280
Speaker 1: we are as we move on here, and like, one

3407
03:16:21,280 --> 03:16:24,840
Speaker 1: of the one of the questions I see is how

3408
03:16:24,879 --> 03:16:28,640
Speaker 1: do you the difficulty and kind of you don't want

3409
03:16:28,640 --> 03:16:32,720
Speaker 1: to have a situation where there's absolutely no where the

3410
03:16:32,800 --> 03:16:35,560
Speaker 1: community self defense contention is anyone who shows up with

3411
03:16:35,600 --> 03:16:38,119
Speaker 1: a gun, because then anyone can show up with a gun,

3412
03:16:38,320 --> 03:16:40,640
Speaker 1: and you as someone else who's showing up with a

3413
03:16:40,680 --> 03:16:46,880
Speaker 1: weapinar potentially like if that person, uh makes a bad decision,

3414
03:16:46,959 --> 03:16:48,680
Speaker 1: that's going to I mean, as it as it has

3415
03:16:48,720 --> 03:16:52,040
Speaker 1: in the past, that has significant repercussions on everybody else.

3416
03:16:52,120 --> 03:16:55,320
Speaker 1: And I that is one of the thorny or points

3417
03:16:55,360 --> 03:16:58,880
Speaker 1: because I do one of the things I see is valuable.

3418
03:16:58,920 --> 03:17:02,680
Speaker 1: Someone mentioned earlier, like the nice thing about it, just

3419
03:17:02,760 --> 03:17:06,160
Speaker 1: in not being firearms being normalized, not as a like

3420
03:17:06,360 --> 03:17:08,720
Speaker 1: gun culture thing, but as this is just a thing

3421
03:17:09,440 --> 03:17:11,480
Speaker 1: that is present in the community. And I saw that

3422
03:17:11,520 --> 03:17:15,560
Speaker 1: a lot in Rojabo, right that everybody was armed, or

3423
03:17:15,600 --> 03:17:17,920
Speaker 1: at least the significant chunk of the populace had access

3424
03:17:17,959 --> 03:17:20,280
Speaker 1: to arms, but nobody was showing off with them. They

3425
03:17:20,280 --> 03:17:23,640
Speaker 1: were not like anybody's like like piece of identity. They

3426
03:17:23,640 --> 03:17:25,720
Speaker 1: were just one of the tools like a like a

3427
03:17:25,840 --> 03:17:28,320
Speaker 1: like a spade or a shovel that were present in

3428
03:17:28,360 --> 03:17:31,520
Speaker 1: the community. Um okay, I think I've skipped over a

3429
03:17:31,520 --> 03:17:34,360
Speaker 1: couple of people. I wanted to give Thud a chance

3430
03:17:34,360 --> 03:17:37,120
Speaker 1: to talk. M that's actually very much should have in

3431
03:17:37,160 --> 03:17:39,160
Speaker 1: line with But the point I was going to make,

3432
03:17:39,160 --> 03:17:43,400
Speaker 1: which is for me, a huge part of community defense,

3433
03:17:43,879 --> 03:17:48,560
Speaker 1: is making sure that the aspect that is defending the

3434
03:17:48,560 --> 03:17:52,520
Speaker 1: community is not alienated from the community because it isn't

3435
03:17:52,720 --> 03:17:56,400
Speaker 1: concentrated in just a few people. Because I think one

3436
03:17:56,440 --> 03:17:59,360
Speaker 1: of the other things that we emphasize the lots with

3437
03:17:59,440 --> 03:18:04,760
Speaker 1: outside of direct protest actions is you try to teach

3438
03:18:04,920 --> 03:18:09,640
Speaker 1: people how to safely operate firearms, but also to give

3439
03:18:09,760 --> 03:18:12,800
Speaker 1: firearms the respect that they deserve. That firearms are not

3440
03:18:12,879 --> 03:18:15,720
Speaker 1: there so that you are badass. Firearms are not there

3441
03:18:15,800 --> 03:18:19,119
Speaker 1: because you know you're going to get into a gunfight.

3442
03:18:19,160 --> 03:18:20,760
Speaker 1: And it's well, the first rule, I mean, one of

3443
03:18:20,760 --> 03:18:23,120
Speaker 1: the one of the things that we stress sort of

3444
03:18:23,120 --> 03:18:26,160
Speaker 1: beyond the basic four rules of gun safety is the

3445
03:18:26,160 --> 03:18:29,160
Speaker 1: first rule of gunpipe is don't get into a gunpipe.

3446
03:18:29,720 --> 03:18:32,959
Speaker 1: That it's you know, you want to exhaust every possible

3447
03:18:32,959 --> 03:18:38,400
Speaker 1: option that you have. And when the community at large

3448
03:18:39,320 --> 03:18:42,960
Speaker 1: is engaged, and like Pray was saying, that it's sort

3449
03:18:42,959 --> 03:18:45,240
Speaker 1: of it becomes normalized that oh, we're not relying on

3450
03:18:46,000 --> 03:18:49,480
Speaker 1: these several people to keep us safe, but that in fact,

3451
03:18:50,400 --> 03:18:53,360
Speaker 1: as an entire collective, we are keeping us safe. And

3452
03:18:54,000 --> 03:18:57,160
Speaker 1: that gives recognition the fact that some people it's not

3453
03:18:57,520 --> 03:19:00,600
Speaker 1: it's not the right choice for them to areagain for

3454
03:19:00,640 --> 03:19:04,640
Speaker 1: one reason or another. And the at the same time,

3455
03:19:04,760 --> 03:19:11,760
Speaker 1: the power that is present in that particular tool is

3456
03:19:11,879 --> 03:19:17,480
Speaker 1: dispersed to the point where it doesn't you know, you

3457
03:19:17,560 --> 03:19:23,920
Speaker 1: don't have people getting self aggrandizing thoughts because of the

3458
03:19:23,959 --> 03:19:27,000
Speaker 1: fact that they're possessing firearps. And I think that's something

3459
03:19:27,040 --> 03:19:30,680
Speaker 1: that we, you know, work really hard to instill in

3460
03:19:30,800 --> 03:19:33,000
Speaker 1: evil in a variety of context, and I think is

3461
03:19:33,040 --> 03:19:40,160
Speaker 1: really critical to this question. So the question trying to summarize, UM,

3462
03:19:40,320 --> 03:19:42,720
Speaker 1: what the question was earlier, What the strengths are weaknesses

3463
03:19:42,720 --> 03:19:47,480
Speaker 1: of having an organized armed response are UM. One of

3464
03:19:47,520 --> 03:19:51,400
Speaker 1: the things that that I wanted to bring up is

3465
03:19:51,440 --> 03:19:56,680
Speaker 1: the historical context of armed response, specifically community armed response

3466
03:19:56,720 --> 03:20:01,200
Speaker 1: in Seattle. UM. I did some digging and owned in

3467
03:20:01,320 --> 03:20:04,680
Speaker 1: a book called History of Seattle from the Earliest Settlement

3468
03:20:04,720 --> 03:20:09,560
Speaker 1: to the Present Time, Volume two, which I started pouring

3469
03:20:09,600 --> 03:20:13,520
Speaker 1: through and found that there was in eighteen seventy four

3470
03:20:14,040 --> 03:20:17,280
Speaker 1: there was a group called the Seattle Amateur Rifle Association

3471
03:20:17,920 --> 03:20:21,200
Speaker 1: which least land for a range on current present day

3472
03:20:21,200 --> 03:20:24,400
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, UM, like right where the train station is

3473
03:20:24,920 --> 03:20:27,920
Speaker 1: if you're familiar with the area, so like right where

3474
03:20:27,920 --> 03:20:32,040
Speaker 1: protests always happened these days. Later on, there's record record

3475
03:20:32,080 --> 03:20:35,800
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy seven of the Seattle Rifle Team organizing

3476
03:20:35,800 --> 03:20:40,440
Speaker 1: and shooting contests. And then later on in six which

3477
03:20:40,440 --> 03:20:43,800
Speaker 1: is a number that probably rings a bell, the Chinese riots,

3478
03:20:43,800 --> 03:20:47,760
Speaker 1: as they called them at the time, happened, which was

3479
03:20:48,280 --> 03:20:50,199
Speaker 1: sort of the start of the labor movement where everyone

3480
03:20:50,240 --> 03:20:52,959
Speaker 1: decided that Chinese immigrants were the cause of all of

3481
03:20:52,959 --> 03:20:56,160
Speaker 1: our woes that the low wages being paid to Chinese

3482
03:20:56,200 --> 03:21:00,480
Speaker 1: immigrants were because of Chinese immigrants and not racism. So

3483
03:21:00,520 --> 03:21:04,720
Speaker 1: they decided to run every person who looked Chinese out

3484
03:21:04,720 --> 03:21:08,080
Speaker 1: of town. Literally. They referred to this as the Tacoma method,

3485
03:21:09,920 --> 03:21:13,720
Speaker 1: and that's what they did in Takemma exactly. It started

3486
03:21:13,760 --> 03:21:19,480
Speaker 1: there and uh, there was a February seven, this massive,

3487
03:21:19,840 --> 03:21:23,199
Speaker 1: angry racist mob tried to push all of the Chinese

3488
03:21:23,200 --> 03:21:25,480
Speaker 1: folks out of Seattle or anyone they thought might look

3489
03:21:25,520 --> 03:21:29,200
Speaker 1: like Chinese, and they tried to push them onto a

3490
03:21:29,240 --> 03:21:31,760
Speaker 1: steamboat but there weren't There wasn't enough room for them

3491
03:21:31,800 --> 03:21:35,520
Speaker 1: all there. Um, cops got involved, a bunch of other

3492
03:21:35,560 --> 03:21:38,600
Speaker 1: stuff happens. They decided no, give them time in court.

3493
03:21:39,520 --> 03:21:45,760
Speaker 1: But in the process uh of making this decision, you know,

3494
03:21:45,760 --> 03:21:51,440
Speaker 1: the racist got a mob together and we're basically just

3495
03:21:51,480 --> 03:21:53,520
Speaker 1: going to try and put a stop to this before

3496
03:21:53,560 --> 03:21:58,400
Speaker 1: the legal proceedings could to go forward. So they reached

3497
03:21:58,400 --> 03:22:00,879
Speaker 1: out to local allies and arms had the Home Guards,

3498
03:22:00,920 --> 03:22:03,840
Speaker 1: which I'm not exactly sure exactly what the Home Guards were,

3499
03:22:03,840 --> 03:22:07,320
Speaker 1: but I assume there's something related to National Guard later on,

3500
03:22:08,120 --> 03:22:12,680
Speaker 1: or maybe just an extension of military. But the Home

3501
03:22:12,720 --> 03:22:16,960
Speaker 1: Guards and the Seattle Rifles as well as the University Cadets,

3502
03:22:17,120 --> 03:22:21,080
Speaker 1: which I'm assuming are of course soldiers in training, and

3503
03:22:21,520 --> 03:22:25,600
Speaker 1: pulled them all out and made a community self defense

3504
03:22:25,640 --> 03:22:27,800
Speaker 1: group out of them. They didn't put a rifle line

3505
03:22:27,840 --> 03:22:31,720
Speaker 1: and held the mob back and enabled those folks to

3506
03:22:31,800 --> 03:22:35,800
Speaker 1: get you know, safely, to have their day in court, um,

3507
03:22:35,840 --> 03:22:37,879
Speaker 1: and then to protect them for a while afterward. They

3508
03:22:37,879 --> 03:22:43,959
Speaker 1: actually organized a sort of a watch because they didn't

3509
03:22:44,000 --> 03:22:47,440
Speaker 1: have enough police to to manage the mob. They used

3510
03:22:47,480 --> 03:22:51,480
Speaker 1: books from the Seattle Rifles and these other groups to uh,

3511
03:22:51,680 --> 03:22:54,280
Speaker 1: to sort of bolster the police forces and keep peace

3512
03:22:54,280 --> 03:22:58,600
Speaker 1: in the town. So the sort of thing that we

3513
03:22:58,640 --> 03:23:01,400
Speaker 1: do is a long stand in historical presence, but I

3514
03:23:01,400 --> 03:23:02,920
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of things you can look at

3515
03:23:02,959 --> 03:23:06,039
Speaker 1: the history of and sort of take lessons from so

3516
03:23:07,120 --> 03:23:10,760
Speaker 1: um as As very mentioned, a unified response is of

3517
03:23:10,800 --> 03:23:14,200
Speaker 1: course a huge benefit of having a huge strength of

3518
03:23:14,240 --> 03:23:18,160
Speaker 1: having an organized armed group. UH. And it's it's literally

3519
03:23:18,200 --> 03:23:21,000
Speaker 1: if someone reaches out and says we need help, help

3520
03:23:21,080 --> 03:23:23,800
Speaker 1: is available. Um. But there are a lot of weaknesses.

3521
03:23:24,240 --> 03:23:29,000
Speaker 1: Businesses and clubs can be held liable legally, and this

3522
03:23:29,120 --> 03:23:31,400
Speaker 1: is an endemic problem within gun law as it stands

3523
03:23:31,440 --> 03:23:34,920
Speaker 1: the laws are written such that they effectively there that

3524
03:23:35,040 --> 03:23:37,920
Speaker 1: it comes down to situational context to determine how a

3525
03:23:37,920 --> 03:23:41,280
Speaker 1: gun law should be enforced. And the law will never

3526
03:23:41,320 --> 03:23:43,240
Speaker 1: be on the side of a group trying to abolish

3527
03:23:43,320 --> 03:23:46,760
Speaker 1: parts of the law. So you have to be very

3528
03:23:46,800 --> 03:23:51,680
Speaker 1: careful about how you how especially an organized or formally

3529
03:23:51,760 --> 03:23:55,960
Speaker 1: organized armed group has to be very careful about how

3530
03:23:56,040 --> 03:23:59,720
Speaker 1: they put their their work in play with that. In

3531
03:23:59,800 --> 03:24:05,000
Speaker 1: my Yeah, that was great, and I was unaware, actually

3532
03:24:05,040 --> 03:24:06,880
Speaker 1: I was aware of the of the riots. I was

3533
03:24:06,959 --> 03:24:10,080
Speaker 1: unaware of that part of the history, which is fascinating,

3534
03:24:10,240 --> 03:24:14,320
Speaker 1: um and I think very important. Yeah, right, did you

3535
03:24:14,400 --> 03:24:19,800
Speaker 1: want to explain the threat onion? Yeah, the integrated threat onion.

3536
03:24:19,959 --> 03:24:23,000
Speaker 1: So this is kind of a a well known meme

3537
03:24:23,200 --> 03:24:28,400
Speaker 1: in certain circles slash actual thing, and it's designed to

3538
03:24:28,879 --> 03:24:32,680
Speaker 1: help you understand how to like mitigate threat and sorry,

3539
03:24:32,720 --> 03:24:38,440
Speaker 1: integrated survivability onion mitigate threats. Right, So the tel deer is,

3540
03:24:39,160 --> 03:24:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, do you want to try to preserve life

3541
03:24:41,360 --> 03:24:43,480
Speaker 1: by having body armor and hoping a bullet hits you

3542
03:24:43,520 --> 03:24:45,520
Speaker 1: in the body armor or do you want to preserve

3543
03:24:45,560 --> 03:24:47,640
Speaker 1: life by I don't know, not showing the funk up

3544
03:24:47,640 --> 03:24:50,920
Speaker 1: to something where you might get shot. And the idea

3545
03:24:51,080 --> 03:24:53,640
Speaker 1: is it's it's a meme because so often, you know,

3546
03:24:53,720 --> 03:24:55,640
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, they want to get in there

3547
03:24:55,640 --> 03:24:58,119
Speaker 1: and get and get engaged with conflict and be the hero.

3548
03:24:58,320 --> 03:24:59,720
Speaker 1: And the answer is, you know, you could just like

3549
03:24:59,800 --> 03:25:01,520
Speaker 1: not go there, right, and it would probably be a

3550
03:25:01,560 --> 03:25:04,960
Speaker 1: lot easier to do that, But there's some real weight

3551
03:25:05,000 --> 03:25:08,960
Speaker 1: to the survivability onion, which is like, there are many

3552
03:25:09,000 --> 03:25:11,920
Speaker 1: many ways to mitigate threats to yourself in your community,

3553
03:25:12,000 --> 03:25:16,320
Speaker 1: and very often the most boring and mundane answer is

3554
03:25:16,840 --> 03:25:18,680
Speaker 1: probably the one that's going to actually result in the

3555
03:25:18,680 --> 03:25:22,160
Speaker 1: biggest impact. And the heroic answer is probably the absolute

3556
03:25:22,240 --> 03:25:25,720
Speaker 1: worst answer and only what you rely on if everything

3557
03:25:25,760 --> 03:25:30,000
Speaker 1: else has gone to hell. So that's someone I think

3558
03:25:30,040 --> 03:25:33,680
Speaker 1: it was thund spoken to alluded to the threat onion

3559
03:25:34,280 --> 03:25:37,199
Speaker 1: and ways to mitigate harm to oneself and one's community,

3560
03:25:37,280 --> 03:25:39,480
Speaker 1: and I had to repeat it because it's this this

3561
03:25:39,720 --> 03:25:43,000
Speaker 1: meme that's been coming up forever. Yeah, And it is

3562
03:25:43,080 --> 03:25:46,000
Speaker 1: like the basic idea of the threat onion is that

3563
03:25:46,600 --> 03:25:49,240
Speaker 1: you have like this again, you if you think of

3564
03:25:49,240 --> 03:25:51,000
Speaker 1: it in layers. That's why they call it an onion

3565
03:25:51,520 --> 03:25:54,520
Speaker 1: um of like things that protect you, and the things

3566
03:25:54,560 --> 03:25:57,240
Speaker 1: that provide the most protection are stuff like not being

3567
03:25:57,640 --> 03:26:01,320
Speaker 1: seen or present when somebody wants to hrn you, um

3568
03:26:01,360 --> 03:26:04,280
Speaker 1: not or being behind cover when somebody wants to harm you.

3569
03:26:04,320 --> 03:26:06,360
Speaker 1: And the thing that offers the least protection is having

3570
03:26:06,400 --> 03:26:10,240
Speaker 1: body armor. You know. It's this the idea that like um,

3571
03:26:10,640 --> 03:26:13,600
Speaker 1: the things that people buy and and focus on because

3572
03:26:13,640 --> 03:26:17,480
Speaker 1: they look cool um are all things that offer less

3573
03:26:17,480 --> 03:26:21,920
Speaker 1: protection than situational awareness and good judgment. UM is kind

3574
03:26:21,959 --> 03:26:24,240
Speaker 1: of the actual like lesson I think to take out

3575
03:26:24,240 --> 03:26:26,680
Speaker 1: of the threat onion. That would be my opinion on

3576
03:26:26,720 --> 03:26:29,160
Speaker 1: the matter. This has been It could Happen here. That's

3577
03:26:29,160 --> 03:26:32,040
Speaker 1: all for this week. Find us That Happen Here pot

3578
03:26:32,240 --> 03:26:34,120
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter, and find the rest of our

3579
03:26:34,160 --> 03:26:48,640
Speaker 1: shows at cool Zone Media in the same places. Hey,

3580
03:26:48,680 --> 03:26:51,840
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

3581
03:26:51,840 --> 03:26:54,600
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe. It Could

3582
03:26:54,600 --> 03:26:56,960
Speaker 1: Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For

3583
03:26:57,080 --> 03:26:59,800
Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

3584
03:26:59,840 --> 03:27:01,840
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

3585
03:27:01,879 --> 03:27:04,560
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

3586
03:27:04,600 --> 03:27:07,520
Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for it Could happen here,

3587
03:27:07,640 --> 03:27:11,240
Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool Zone media dot com slash sources.

3588
03:27:11,280 --> 03:27:15,279
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. After thirty years, it's time to return

3589
03:27:15,320 --> 03:27:17,520
Speaker 1: to the halls of West Beverly High and hang out

3590
03:27:17,560 --> 03:27:19,920
Speaker 1: at the peach pit. On the podcast nine O two

3591
03:27:19,920 --> 03:27:23,039
Speaker 1: one o MG, visit Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for

3592
03:27:23,120 --> 03:27:25,600
Speaker 1: a rewatch of the hit series Beverly Hills nine O

3593
03:27:25,720 --> 03:27:28,200
Speaker 1: two one oh. From the very beginning, we get to

3594
03:27:28,360 --> 03:27:31,400
Speaker 1: tell the fans all of the behind the scenes stories

3595
03:27:31,400 --> 03:27:34,360
Speaker 1: to actually happen, so they know what happened on camera obviously,

3596
03:27:34,520 --> 03:27:36,640
Speaker 1: but we can tell them all the good stuff that

3597
03:27:36,640 --> 03:27:38,680
Speaker 1: happened off camera. Listen to nine O two one o

3598
03:27:38,920 --> 03:27:41,640
Speaker 1: MG on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

3599
03:27:41,640 --> 03:27:45,480
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Get all the Real Housewives

3600
03:27:45,480 --> 03:27:48,080
Speaker 1: to you need on the podcast to Teas in a

3601
03:27:48,200 --> 03:27:51,560
Speaker 1: pod join ex Housewives Teddy Mellencamp and Tim or Judge

3602
03:27:51,640 --> 03:27:55,480
Speaker 1: as they watch recap Armchair Quarterback and breakdown all things

3603
03:27:55,520 --> 03:27:58,880
Speaker 1: from the hit reality TV franchise. This team tells it

3604
03:27:58,920 --> 03:28:02,560
Speaker 1: like it is each We're gonna be recapping whatever housewife

3605
03:28:02,920 --> 03:28:05,959
Speaker 1: is currently airing. Lucky for Tamra, We're gonna start oh

3606
03:28:06,040 --> 03:28:08,800
Speaker 1: my gosh with Orange County. Listen to two teas in

3607
03:28:08,840 --> 03:28:11,520
Speaker 1: a pod on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts

3608
03:28:11,680 --> 03:28:14,959
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Gave us super attention.

3609
03:28:15,040 --> 03:28:18,160
Speaker 1: We need everything you've got fast. Waiting on Reparations would

3610
03:28:18,160 --> 03:28:22,160
Speaker 1: beat the podcast. Tune in every Thursday politics and wordplay.

3611
03:28:22,280 --> 03:28:24,160
Speaker 1: We fight for the people because they got us in

3612
03:28:24,200 --> 03:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the worst way, from the Hill Cooper, the bombay Ton,

3613
03:28:27,879 --> 03:28:30,199
Speaker 1: from the left on Clay to what the neo kanse

3614
03:28:30,600 --> 03:28:33,800
Speaker 1: every Thursday, the heavy conversation and to break us off

3615
03:28:33,800 --> 03:28:37,520
Speaker 1: with some break because we're waiting the reparations. Listen to

3616
03:28:37,560 --> 03:28:41,039
Speaker 1: Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

3617
03:28:41,160 --> 03:28:42,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.