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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius X Him Triumph.

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Speaker 1: Does it never end? That's my first question. I remember

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Speaker 1: looking for the first time at the photo of Trayvon

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Speaker 1: Martin's father adjusting his tie when he was a little boy.

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Speaker 1: And then he ends up dead on the ground, shot

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Speaker 1: down by the captain of the neighborhood watch for what,

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Speaker 1: going to the seven eleven and getting a diet coke

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Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, and the shooter walks free. We all

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Speaker 1: know the name George Zimmerman, and you walk free based

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Speaker 1: on a legal theory that I think is total b

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Speaker 1: S is sub derivative of self defense. It's called stand

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Speaker 1: your ground. And now a Florida man who we are

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Speaker 1: learning allegedly threatened three other people three different times before

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Speaker 1: shooting the man in his latest stand your ground case.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when will it end? I mean, see Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I can just tell you this much. Do not get

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Speaker 1: in an argument with anybody over a parking spot in

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Speaker 1: Florida because you can get gunned down dead and the

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Speaker 1: sheriff won't lift a finger. Guys, before I go any further,

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Speaker 1: I've got a special guest with me right now. It's

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Crump, my longtime friend. He worked on the Trayvon

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Speaker 1: Martin case. He is the lawyer behind the Benjamin Crump

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Speaker 1: Law firms across the country, the author of open Season,

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Speaker 1: legalized genocide of people of color, and he is part

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Speaker 1: of the Trayvon documentary on b Et Paramount. Benjamin, I

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Speaker 1: know you're rushing off to another court appearance, but I

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Speaker 1: just want you to tell me what is happening now.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in in in the twilight zone.

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Speaker 1: It really is unbelievable now said when you look at

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Speaker 1: the similarities between the tray By Martin case six years

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Speaker 1: ago and what is happening in clear Water, Florida with

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Speaker 1: Marquis mcglockton. But before I get to that, now, it's

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Speaker 1: the grace. I just want to say thank you on

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Speaker 1: behalf of Trayvon Martin's parents, Sabrina Fulton and Tracy Martin,

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Speaker 1: because you used your platform to really educate people about

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Speaker 1: what happened in the killing of their son. And I

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Speaker 1: will never forget that last interview after the verdict that

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Speaker 1: you did with his parents and especially Sabrina, the humanity

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Speaker 1: you show to this mother who had lost her child,

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Speaker 1: simply walking home from the store, mind of his own business.

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Speaker 1: So let me just say thank you for that first

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Speaker 1: and foremost. You know, Benjamin, even now, sometimes if I

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Speaker 1: let John David walk from here to there, I think

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Speaker 1: about Trayvon Martin because on David. Believe it or not, Benjamin,

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen a photo him a long time. He

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Speaker 1: is just ten years old. He's almost as tall as

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Speaker 1: Trayvon was right now, and I just think, I just think,

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Speaker 1: and I think about Trayvon's parents and what they went through.

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Speaker 1: But that's a whole another cannon worms. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: your compliment. What are we going to do about clearwater?

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Speaker 1: Marquis mcglocktin and his girlfriend, Brittany Jacobs had come home,

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Speaker 1: uh from her job. They were on their way home.

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Speaker 1: They had three uh little babies in the car with him,

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Speaker 1: death babies, five year old Marquis Jr. Three year old

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Speaker 1: Marley dead daughter, and four month old Marshane. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: stopped at this convenience start to get the kids some snacks. Uh.

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Speaker 1: As she's putting in, there's a truck in the parking lot,

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Speaker 1: so she just grabs the first uh space that she sees.

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Speaker 1: She says, they all is gonna be there for a minute.

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Speaker 1: Marquis Senior, Marquis Jr. Get out of the car. I

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Speaker 1: go into the convenience store. They're literally getting some snacks

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Speaker 1: for the kids and coming right back out. Uh this

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Speaker 1: wanna be caught. This separate part that wanta be called

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Speaker 1: Micael Drinker And you can see it all on the

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Speaker 1: video there. Say you don't have to take my word.

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Speaker 1: He comes out walking around the car at first, and

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Speaker 1: then you see him yelling in the car, impointing his

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Speaker 1: finger in the window. Now, imagine if you're a mother

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Speaker 1: with your two babies in the back seat and some

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Speaker 1: strange man just come up to you, yelling and cursing

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Speaker 1: the present at you, and uh, that's what happened to her.

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Speaker 1: Somebody goes into the convenienced and tells Marquis, somebody's uh,

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Speaker 1: I saw your family out of the car. He comes out,

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Speaker 1: and you see it all on video. He walks up,

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Speaker 1: he pushes him. A lot of men would have came

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Speaker 1: to try to defend their family. That's exactly what Marchis

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Speaker 1: was trying to do. If Staniel Grouse should apply to anybody,

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Speaker 1: should have been him. How Ever, you see him pushed

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Speaker 1: on the ground. Then you see this guy go to

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Speaker 1: his pocket put out a gun and he pulls out

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Speaker 1: the gun. And when he does that, now say Marquise

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Speaker 1: jumps back and takes four steps back. Brittany, she starts

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Speaker 1: retreating as well. There's a white gentleman who walks into

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Speaker 1: the video Fame. You can see it on the video.

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Speaker 1: He jumps back and starts retreating. Everybody is retreating. He

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Speaker 1: is not an intimate here of his life. But yet

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Speaker 1: after they are all retreating, he shoots Marquis and justifiably,

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Speaker 1: and you see on that video what happens next. He runs,

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Speaker 1: he stumbles back into the store. His five year old

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Speaker 1: son is right there and he is reaching out for

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Speaker 1: us father, and his father falls at his son's feet.

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Speaker 1: And that is the last time that five year old

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Speaker 1: boy whatever see his father alive or again. And you

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Speaker 1: can imagine all the counsel and these children are gonna need.

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Speaker 1: But the sheriff for Penellis County, with that video evidence

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Speaker 1: and not to mention the history of this want to

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Speaker 1: be cop of attacking people of color. He pulled a

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Speaker 1: gun on some Hispanic women when he had a role

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Speaker 1: rage incident that he provoked. He also pulled a gun

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Speaker 1: on another African American person in the same handicapped spot

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Speaker 1: because instead of calling the police, he took the law

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Speaker 1: to his own hands, but the sheriff would not arrest him.

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Speaker 1: He went home and slept in his own bed that night,

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Speaker 1: and it was only people saying this isn't right. This

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Speaker 1: in your groundlaw is a license to kill, especially if

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Speaker 1: you are not a person of color and you shoot

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Speaker 1: a person of color. We have to address this. We

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Speaker 1: can't be stilent about this because too many people are

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Speaker 1: dying unnecessarily. We don't have to solve our problems with violets.

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Speaker 1: We should solve our problems by talking to one another,

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Speaker 1: not put out a good and just shoot the person,

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Speaker 1: make sure they die, and then say I was standing

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Speaker 1: my ground. So that's what we're dealing with, Nancy, And

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Speaker 1: thank god the d A did charge him with uh

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Speaker 1: Man slaughter with me is Benjamin Crump, longtime friend and

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Speaker 1: associate Florida civil rights lawyer who was critical in the

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Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin case. You know what, Benjamin, even if the

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Speaker 1: guy's charged, even if he goes through the revolving door

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Speaker 1: and gets booked in fingerprint and makes a bond and

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Speaker 1: walks out. It doesn't mean anything to me. Look what

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Speaker 1: happened in Trayvon Martin. Look what's happened over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. Just because somebody gets charged, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean a hell of beings. And look at Cosby. Look

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Speaker 1: at that guy, they said Gil and he's in his

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Speaker 1: fancy brownstone having a private chef made him lunch today.

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Speaker 1: So until the guy is sentenced and sent to jail,

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Speaker 1: it it don't mean a thing. Benjamin Crump, And I'm

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Speaker 1: just so sick about these children. Um, Benjamin, what about

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Speaker 1: the fact there is no way? Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I take that back. There's always a way. But under

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Speaker 1: the law, all of these prior similar transactions should come

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Speaker 1: before a jury. Have you noticed that he keeps picking

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Speaker 1: on women he's got You've got him picking on the

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Speaker 1: wife in the car with the babies, and this time

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Speaker 1: over a parking spot. Then you've got him picking on,

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Speaker 1: as you said, uh, the hispanic woman in a car.

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Speaker 1: It's always somebody that's sitting in a car seated and

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Speaker 1: he comes up, standing up, and we know he's got

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Speaker 1: a gun. Why does he even have a gun to

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Speaker 1: start with? And that is something that certainly want to

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Speaker 1: educate the public owner. I know the police officer in

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Speaker 1: the prior incident where he pulled the gun on the

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Speaker 1: young Hispanic women, he said he didn't put them it

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Speaker 1: on them, but yet he had the gun and the

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Speaker 1: seer console when the sheriff, I meant the police officer

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Speaker 1: came forward and pulled them over after they said, you know,

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Speaker 1: he just pulled a gun on us. And then he

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Speaker 1: told the police officer when he pulled them over, before

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Speaker 1: the police officer even told him why he was pulling

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Speaker 1: him over, he said, they're lying. I didn't put a

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Speaker 1: gun on them. And so the police officer said, what

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Speaker 1: if you didn't put a gun on them, why do

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Speaker 1: you know why I'm putting you over? And so it

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Speaker 1: was almost he told over himself and then the police

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Speaker 1: report as clear as day. The police said, admiss, I

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Speaker 1: do not believe you. I believe that you did. I

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Speaker 1: sought these young women for nothing more that you than

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Speaker 1: you said they were going too sl oh in a

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Speaker 1: school zone. He blew his horn a thing. It was

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Speaker 1: they were going fifteen and this is the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing he has been doing in the past. Then when

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Speaker 1: you know what I always say, ben when you don't

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Speaker 1: know a horse, look at his track record. Didn't pull

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Speaker 1: a gun my rear in. He always pulled a gun

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Speaker 1: over and over and over in the past. A Hispanic lady,

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Speaker 1: an African American lady. It goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: Why should I believe now he's suddenly turning around and

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Speaker 1: running back to the gate. I don't believe it, Benjamin Crump,

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Speaker 1: join us again when you can. As this case unfolds,

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Speaker 1: listen to this, still in shocked. How this white man,

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Speaker 1: this stranger came up to my car and harassed me

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Speaker 1: and my babies. He just he always hanging out here,

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Speaker 1: like to see if there's any broughteno with or something,

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Speaker 1: just to just to start broughten with somebody. It's not

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Speaker 1: that he's not normal. That was the store clerk inside

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Speaker 1: the seven eleven where this only stopped just for a

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Speaker 1: quick in and out and ends up the dad dead

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot, over parking spot. And now the

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Speaker 1: defense stand your ground has reared its head. We've seen

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Speaker 1: it many times before. I mean, you see, Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us with us.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, police vet, former SPU. Detective, author of Outside

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Speaker 1: Your Door. Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, renowned defense lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Robin Figured, Chuck Roberts Crime Stories investigative reporter and Atlanta

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Speaker 1: felony prosecutor Kenya Johnson Straight to you, Chuck Roberts, Crime

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Speaker 1: Online dot Com reporter. Let's let's just back it up

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Speaker 1: for a moment. Let's start at the beginning. We just

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Speaker 1: heard the store clerk with our friends at w f

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Speaker 1: l A describing that this guy hangs around there all

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Speaker 1: the time in a weird way. You know, Chuck, I

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Speaker 1: remember working at UM, I worked in a law firm,

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Speaker 1: I worked somewhere else, and I'll stor into the sandwich

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Speaker 1: shop to get myself to law school. And there were

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Speaker 1: regulars that always came to the sandwich shop, and I

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Speaker 1: would know them at a distance. This guy hung around,

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Speaker 1: not just to get a sandwich number four and leave,

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Speaker 1: but did just hang around? Chuck, start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about this guy and how did

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Speaker 1: that fateful day unfold? Well, you mentioned the earlier road

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Speaker 1: rage incidents in which he pulled his weapon out of

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Speaker 1: frustration and not fear. But three months ago, um Draka

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Speaker 1: was in a fight with another customer at the very

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Speaker 1: same convenience store. Richard Kelly, a truck driver stopped by,

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Speaker 1: parked in that same handicapped spot, and according to Kelly,

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Speaker 1: Draco walked around the truck checking for decals and then

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Speaker 1: confronted Kelly about why he parked there. The fight quickly

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Speaker 1: escalated and Draca threatened to shoot him, according to Kelly,

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Speaker 1: and Draca then, according to police, called the truck owner

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Speaker 1: a a cut rate septic tank. Spoke to the owner,

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Speaker 1: John Tyler, and said he was quote lucky he didn't

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Speaker 1: blow his employees head off. This is according to documents

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Speaker 1: file with Pinella's County Court. Listen to this with our

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Speaker 1: friends at w f l A. This isn't the first

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Speaker 1: time Draco has picked a fight over the parking spot.

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Speaker 1: Richard Kelly parked in at once and says it set

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Speaker 1: him off. He was basicate me to shoot me. That well,

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Speaker 1: investigators go through all the evidence, those who saw what

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Speaker 1: happened have many questions this murder. He murdered someone, he

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Speaker 1: took someone family member. There. Ahead, kids, okay, go back

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Speaker 1: to what happened the day of the shooting. Let's just

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Speaker 1: start with that day, Okay, So the families together take

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Speaker 1: it from there. Uh Marquis mcglocktin, father of three eight

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Speaker 1: years old, pulls into the circle a food store on

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Speaker 1: Sunset Point Road, goes in with his five year old son,

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Speaker 1: at which point UH Michael Drake at eight year old,

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Speaker 1: comes up to his girlfriend, that is mcglockton's girlfriend and

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Speaker 1: confronts her about parking in a handicap spot. That also

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Speaker 1: escalates and becomes loud enough that some other customer comes

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Speaker 1: in and tells Marquise mcglockton that someone is threatening his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend and his family, so he runs outside and quickly

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Speaker 1: shoves Draka to the ground forcefully. At The video shows

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Speaker 1: that at that point there's about a four second pause

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Speaker 1: and Draca pulls a weapon. It appears that Buglockton is

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Speaker 1: backing away and Draca fires one round in mcglockton's chest.

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Speaker 1: He stumbles around. His five year old boy is right

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Speaker 1: there with him, screams. Apparently the the girlfriend gets out

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Speaker 1: tries to apply pressure, but there's there's no hope for mcglockton.

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Speaker 1: He's dead within an hour. And this is a standard

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Speaker 1: ground case that the sheriff initially decided would not be prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: but later obviously it was overruled by the district attorney

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Speaker 1: who said it's manslaughter. Well, I'm also confused about why

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Speaker 1: it's charged with manslaughter, because let me go to Kenya Johnson,

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Speaker 1: Felony prosecutor. Kenya, when you're working with a grand jury,

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Speaker 1: as I did, and as I'm sure you have done,

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Speaker 1: you charge with the highest charge it could possibly be,

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Speaker 1: and then all the other lessers, so you can give

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Speaker 1: the jury the alternatives that they may need when they

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Speaker 1: determine the case. And if you don't charge with murder one,

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Speaker 1: which this case could easily be determined to be murder one,

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Speaker 1: that's off the boards that they can't. They can't bring

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Speaker 1: back a verdict going up. They can only bring back

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Speaker 1: a verdict with what's charged or lesser. How do you

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Speaker 1: see this case, Kenya ipee? The fact that the grand

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Speaker 1: jury did not charge murder one as they've even realized

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Speaker 1: or thought that this gentleman or the suspect didn't have

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Speaker 1: any intense that it wasn't a premeditated murder. So that's okay,

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Speaker 1: But then there's also involuntary manslaughter. There's your heat of passion,

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Speaker 1: and then there's your voluntary manslaughter where you commit an

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Speaker 1: act and you meet, but you didn't mean to bring

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Speaker 1: about the death. So that's where we're looking at. The

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Speaker 1: grand jury is speaking and saying that they don't believe

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Speaker 1: McGlaughlin had intense to kill him at the moment that

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Speaker 1: they encountered. However, he set about a course of actions

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Speaker 1: that resulted in McGlaughlin's death. So that's where the manslaughter

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Speaker 1: comes from. But it does put you say that, at

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Speaker 1: a disadvantage because there only leaves the jury to decide

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Speaker 1: the lesser charge of manslaughter or something not even related

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Speaker 1: to murders, such as aggravated assault. So it does handicap

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Speaker 1: the state in their prosecution, but it sends a message

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Speaker 1: that even the grand jury didn't think that there was

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Speaker 1: any intense in his action. So the laws this, uh,

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Speaker 1: the jury can come back on this charge voluntary or

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Speaker 1: any lesser included defense such as involuntary or aggravated assault.

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Speaker 1: But here's the deal. Self defense goes like this. Let

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Speaker 1: me go to Robin Ficker. Robin, isn't it true? Self

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Speaker 1: defense goes like this. You can come up and slap me,

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Speaker 1: and under the law, I have the right to exert

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Speaker 1: equal amount of force to defend myself. I can slap

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Speaker 1: you back, but I can't when you slap me. I

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Speaker 1: can't pull out an oozy and gun you down unless

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Speaker 1: I really believe you're about to kill me. Would you

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Speaker 1: agree with that, Robin Ficker? Well, yeah, I agree with that, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: This case has nothing to do with civil rights. This

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Speaker 1: case involves Mr McLaughlin coming out of the store, and

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Speaker 1: essentially it reminds me of a knockout case where he

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Speaker 1: just ran up to this gentleman and didn't push him,

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Speaker 1: didn't show them. He knocked him down, then stepped forward

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Speaker 1: towards him. He also reached into his waispend. It all

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Speaker 1: happened within micro seconds, and I'm really not surprised he

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Speaker 1: got shot. If he went If I went outside the

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Speaker 1: courthouse and did this to ten people and knocked down

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Speaker 1: ten people as he did with that amount of force,

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Speaker 1: I would get shot by at least one of them.

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Speaker 1: This is clearly self defense. As for the hold your

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Speaker 1: standard ground, twenty seven states have that, and here he's

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Speaker 1: on the ground. He can't go anywhere. He's fearful of

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Speaker 1: this great, big thug standing over him about to beat

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Speaker 1: the crap out of him, even worse than he was

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Speaker 1: hit before, So I don't see how well I would

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Speaker 1: argue with you on that figure about who's the thug?

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Speaker 1: And you very conveniently, I mean, if I was charged

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Speaker 1: with murder, I definitely hire you, Robin. But you very

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Speaker 1: conveniently left out the entire first part of the scenario,

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Speaker 1: and that is defense of others. A man looks out

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Speaker 1: the seven eleven window and says an another man with

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Speaker 1: a gun berating his wife and children cowering in the car.

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Speaker 1: Don't right, he's gonna come out and punch the guy.

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Speaker 1: You don't right? He is? What can man would he

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Speaker 1: be if he didn't come out and do something? He

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Speaker 1: didn't He didn't see any gun. How do you know

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Speaker 1: that conversation? Conversation? Mr McLaughlin should have gotten in his

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Speaker 1: car with his wife and kids and driven away, and

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00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: he'd be living a happy life today. Window treatments is

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Speaker 1: one of those terms for something necessary but boring. You're blinds.

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Speaker 1: You don't even think about them unless you move or

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Speaker 1: they break. Well, when they're right, everything in your home

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00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 1: looks better, But when they're wrong, everything in your home

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00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: looks tacky. But let's be honest, taking the time and

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00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 1: the effort to pick out and buy blind sounds expensive, boring,

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Speaker 1: and then think of installing them yourself. Who wants to

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Speaker 1: do that? But blinds dot Com makes it really easy

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Speaker 1: for you. I'm not sure what you want or even

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Speaker 1: where to start. With blinds dot Com, you get a

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Speaker 1: specific rooms. They even send you free samples to make

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Speaker 1: sure everything looks as good in person as it does online.

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Speaker 1: And every order gets free shipping. And this is the

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Speaker 1: best part. If you accidentally mismeasure or pick the wrong color.

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Speaker 1: If you mess it up, blinds dot Com will remake

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Speaker 1: your blinds for free. Blinds dot Com makes it really

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Speaker 1: easy for you. There's no excuse to leave up mangled

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Speaker 1: blinds to make your whole home look cheap and tacky.

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Speaker 1: Don't do it. Go to blinds dot com and now,

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Speaker 1: for a limited time, get off everything at blinds dot

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Speaker 1: com when you use promo code Nancy. Repeat off everything

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Speaker 1: at blinds dot com. If you use the promo code Nancy.

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Speaker 1: That's blinds dot Com promo code Nancy for off everything,

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00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: foe wood blinds, cellular shades, roller shades, everything blinds, dot

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00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 1: Com promo code, Nancy rules and restrictions do apply. My

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00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: son witness this whole thing. A five year old witnesses

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Speaker 1: whole thing. A five year old, not twelve years old,

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Speaker 1: not thirteen, but at five years old, you know this

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Speaker 1: is messed up and the child should never seen that tonight.

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Speaker 1: That now, my kids would never be the same without

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Speaker 1: near father. He was a wrapper, he loved the staying,

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Speaker 1: he loved to draw. He was definitely his kids. And

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Speaker 1: he didn't have to go late. This man, he didn't

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Speaker 1: have to go late this you're hearing. Brittany Jacobs um

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Speaker 1: the wife of the dead man, the mother of his

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Speaker 1: three children. She was at a seven eleven when with

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Speaker 1: her children in the car when the purp accosted her

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Speaker 1: or came up yelling at her, arguing with her about

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Speaker 1: being in a handicapped spot. True they were not handicapped,

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Speaker 1: but really did he deserve the death penalty? Then other

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Speaker 1: people tell the guy in the seven eleven, hey, the

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Speaker 1: man is screaming at your wife. He comes out, pushes

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Speaker 1: the guy away from the car, and the guy shoots

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Speaker 1: him dead. That that's the scenario as I understand it.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the Penellas County Sheriff Bob Terry

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Speaker 1: explaining why he did not charge the shooter, Michael Jacob.

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Speaker 1: The facts of this case can lead reasonable people to

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Speaker 1: different determinations. The law says, don't arrest in this situation

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Speaker 1: and let the state attorney to figure it out. As

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Speaker 1: far as my decision not to arrest, the drake of

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Speaker 1: my decision is based on the requirements of for the

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Speaker 1: standard ground law. It is a preliminary decision about arrest

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Speaker 1: and not a final decision about charges. Again, I make

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Speaker 1: decisions about an arrest and the state attorney makes decisions

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Speaker 1: about charges. That's our system. If charges are filed, then

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Speaker 1: a judge decide whether to dismiss the case, and if not,

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Speaker 1: a jury decides guilt, followed by an appellate court deciding

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Speaker 1: if the prior decisions were right or wrong. My decision

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Speaker 1: not to arrest is because Florida law creates a situation

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Speaker 1: where someone is immune from arrest if their conduct is

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Speaker 1: arguably within the parameters of standard round. This is not

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Speaker 1: a defense to be merely asserted at trial or after

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Speaker 1: commencement of criminal proceedings. This is an immunity from arrest.

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Speaker 1: A person who uses or threatens to use force as

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Speaker 1: permitted under the law is justified in such conduct in

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Speaker 1: immune from criminal prosecution. In that section of the statute

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Speaker 1: goes on to define from criminal prosecution is including arrest

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Speaker 1: or detaining somebody in custody and some the law has

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Speaker 1: taken away law enforcement discretion to arrest unless there is

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Speaker 1: no stand your ground as a matter of law. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about the most recent standard ground shooting as they

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Speaker 1: are called in Florida. Why are they all coming out

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Speaker 1: of Florida? Number one? There are some others peppered across

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Speaker 1: the country, but mostly we're hearing from them out of

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Speaker 1: Florida and joining me from Florida. Dr Daniel Bobert, forensic psychiatrist.

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Speaker 1: Dr bober Boy, do we need a shrink um question

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Speaker 1: to you? This whole thing started ostensibly at first glance

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Speaker 1: over the victims wife and children in a handicap parking spot.

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Speaker 1: They were not handicap. But what we know is the

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Speaker 1: shooter hung around in a weird way all the time.

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Speaker 1: And that's seven eleven and I call it seven eleven generically, uh,

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Speaker 1: like copies or xeroxes. But um, he hung around there

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Speaker 1: all the time, and he had argued with other people

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Speaker 1: about parking in the handicapped spot, and we know he

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Speaker 1: had pulled a gun on other people, particularly women, in

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Speaker 1: traffic scenarios. That that's really where the case starts is

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00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: his background. That's how this starts, his pattern, his m O,

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Speaker 1: his modus operandi, his method of operation. That's where it

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Speaker 1: really starts. But let's let's start with that day. What

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Speaker 1: is it, Dr Bober? Why do people think they have

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Speaker 1: to get so indignant and angry over a parking spot

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Speaker 1: or a driving issue like the two women going too

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Speaker 1: slowly in a school zone. I nearly go out of

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Speaker 1: my gourd when I because I'm anxious and impatient that

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Speaker 1: those are my two of my really big bolts. And

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Speaker 1: I know that, and when I get behind the slow poke,

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Speaker 1: I can nearly jump out of my skin. But I

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Speaker 1: now know a don't shoot a bird, okay, because I

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Speaker 1: don't want the children to sheep birds and be don't

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Speaker 1: blow the horn or they will shoot you. Okay. I've

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Speaker 1: learned that, okay, the hard way by by covering these cases.

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Speaker 1: But what is it? Then? There are times when I'm

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Speaker 1: looking up directions and I find myself going ten miles

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Speaker 1: an hour and somebody behind me very kindly not blowing

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Speaker 1: the horn. My question is, why do people get so

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Speaker 1: angry they want to start a fist fight or confront

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Speaker 1: a lady with her children in the car. What is

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Speaker 1: it about the road that drives people insane? You know,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Uh, This guy, just like George Zimmerman, Uh, is

427
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: a guy who's a weak and adequate person who seeks

428
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: out confrontation because he doesn't feel strong enough about himself.

429
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: You know, we have these standard ground laws. We think

430
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: they make us say for but they actually don't. A

431
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: study in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed

432
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: that in Florida, when they passed the Standiard ground law,

433
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: there was a thirty increase in firearm related homicides in

434
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: the state of Florida, while in the country, in states

435
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: that didn't have standard ground laws, the homicide rate remained

436
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: flat didn't change. So there's a huge public health issue

437
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: here with these standard ground laws, and they're not making

438
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 1: us safer. They're just making us feel safer. But it's

439
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: an illusion. What about this. About three months ago, a

440
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: guy named Richard Kelly tells Panella's County Sheriffs that he

441
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: was approached by the same guy, Draco, at the Circle

442
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: A food store, same place, the same store where he

443
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: guns down Mclockton. And according to this witness, Richard Kelly,

444
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: three months ago, Draco was mad at him because he

445
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 1: partnered in a handicap spot. Look. I get mad at

446
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: handicap fakers too, because my brother in law is handicap.

447
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: He's paralyzed. And you should see what my sister for

448
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: the last decades goes through trying to physically get him

449
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: out of the car. Uh, get him situated, get him

450
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: into a store or wherever they're going. And you passed

451
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: by the handicaped spots, they're awful. And there is my sister.

452
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: She was the sweet, smart one, by the way, pushing

453
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: my brother in law, who we adore, all the way

454
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: from the back parking spot into the store because somebody

455
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: mooched faked a handicap spot. You know how mad that

456
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: makes me when I think of my sister going through that.

457
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: It happens all the time. But am I going to

458
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: pull out a gun? Uh? No? So three months ago

459
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: he confronts another guy, and this is the important part.

460
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: Dr Bober and listen to this, Kenya and Dr Daniel

461
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: Bober and Robin Ficker, listen to this. Three months ago,

462
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: he gets in the fight, same store, about the same

463
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: handicap spot, and he starts a loud fight and he

464
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: tells Kelly he's gonna shoot him. So here we go.

465
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: He just did it three months ago, and I can

466
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: name two other instances where he pulls or threatens to

467
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: pull a gun, Doctor Bober over parking or driving. Help me,

468
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: Daniel Nancy. This guy is just again someone who is

469
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: looking for confrontation. He would think he would have better

470
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: things to do besides sitting outside a convenience store and

471
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: looking for a fight finding a way to use his firearm.

472
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: But that's the problem. That's the issue. This individual has

473
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: some sort of personality disorder where he seeks out these situations.

474
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: Not only this, we learn to Robin Ficker, a defense

475
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: lawyer joining us out of the Maryland jurisdiction. Court documents

476
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: say Draco wanted to complain to Kelly's employer, and this

477
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: is the last guy threatened about a gun him. So

478
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: he spoke to the owner and told the business he

479
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: was lucky he didn't blow his employees head off. That's

480
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: what Chuck Roberts was telling us earlier. What about that?

481
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got a track record, Robin Vicker, of

482
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: getting mad at people over parking spots and driving minor

483
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: minor infractions when he was mac as a woman was

484
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: going too slowly and threatening to shoot them or pulling

485
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: a gun. Robin, what's your defense to that. He's got

486
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: a history of chit chat with people about minor infractions.

487
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: But here we have an intervention of an extremely rough

488
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: and vicious attack physically by Mr McLaughlin. That's where he

489
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: stepped over the line and was gental giant. He was

490
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: a man above all men. I raised him to be

491
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: a man, and unfortunately it cost him his life. We

492
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: need to put it into this any kind of load

493
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: that allows one man and to kill another man, and

494
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: the man that pulled the trigger. It don't even get fingerprinted,

495
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: needs to needs to son needs to be done. You're

496
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: hearing the father of the victim now responding to his

497
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: son gunned down in a parking lot over a handicap

498
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: parking spot with US Benjamin Crump, Florida civil rights lawyer,

499
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, Police Vet Dr. Daniel Bober Robin Ficker, renowned

500
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: defense attorney out of Maryland, Chuck Robert's Crime online dot

501
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: com investigative reporter, and Atlanta felony prosecutor Kenya Johnson. Stephen Lampley,

502
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: police vet, former s VU detective, author of Outside Your Door. Stephen,

503
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to what the

504
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: sheriff said. Listen to arrest, it must be so clear

505
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: that as a matter of law, standard ground does not

506
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: apply in any way to the facts and circumstances that

507
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: you're presented with. That is not the situation here. The

508
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: facts are not so clear that this is absolutely out

509
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: side the boundaries of standier ground. So in order for

510
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: me to arrest it has to be, as a matter

511
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: of law, outside the boundaries of stand your ground. All

512
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: Drake it has to do is wave the flag of

513
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: standier ground. He has no burden whatsoever. Then the state

514
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: attorney has a heavy burden of disproving his entitlement to

515
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: stand your ground. So when you put all of that together,

516
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: is that at this stage of the proceedings, I'm following

517
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: the law and doing what the legislature is said not

518
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: to do, and don't have this citizen who claims that

519
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: he was acting to self defense, sitting in jail while

520
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: people are figuring it out, and once they figure it out,

521
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: the state attorney, I know, and I'm very confident, will

522
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: make what is the right decision under the law, and

523
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: then it will go from there to Stephen Lampley police

524
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: that and author of outside your Door. I want to

525
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: hear the cops perspective on this. I don't like, uh

526
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: wail and on the police, but I want the right

527
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: thing done. And I hear the sheriff explaining why you're

528
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: not made the arrest yet, But I want to hear

529
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: your point of east Stephen Well answer that this situation

530
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: is there's there's a lot that happened in this situation,

531
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: and it happened on both sides. Now that the sheriff, Uh,

532
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: of course I wasn't there. None of us were there.

533
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: The sheriff, I'm assuming, acting in what the information he had.

534
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: And uh, even with McCabe, I think we think it

535
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: was the state attorney. It took them nine days to

536
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: decide whether to uh in trying to get an indictment

537
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: on on the gentleman and Draka. So there's a lot

538
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: that happened in this situation that a lot that the

539
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: sheriff had to look at it. And I'm not trying

540
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: to second guess him or the words of his mouth,

541
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: but you had a situation where you've got this uh

542
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: self declared parking lot, UH patrol patrol person who is

543
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: being that that he's the guru of all things parking, uh,

544
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: trying to uh do whatever he needed to do to

545
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: prove his point that she was in the handicapped parking

546
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: spot and maybe she didn't need to be. Uh. That

547
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: was not his duty, that was not his job. He

548
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: was wrong in that case. Uh. Marquis. Of course, I understand,

549
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: and I get the fact that he heard uh what

550
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: was going on and come out and defended his family.

551
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: He has a right, of course to defend them. But

552
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: he exerted the first physical contact. Uh. And again I

553
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: don't I did see him take a couple of steps

554
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: forward in the video, but then I did not see

555
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: any actually overt act that led me personally to believe

556
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: there was any other physical threat coming from from Hooton. However,

557
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: I don't know what what what the police would call

558
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: inciting words. There was no audio, and I don't know

559
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: what transpired between the two Uh, there was any threats

560
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: made that where Drake Fup felt maybe he was in

561
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: him and the danger even though there was no physical that.

562
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: There's a lot there, man too, There's a whole lot there. Uh.

563
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to second guest any party. As police officer,

564
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: former police officer, I try to stay in the dutual

565
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: of the whole situation. There was just so much in

566
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: this case, uh to a book here, and I think

567
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 1: that's actually why it took them, you know, the nine

568
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: days to actually decide if they were going to indicton On.

569
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: I want to analyze what's happening Kenya Johnson, felony prosecutor, Kenya.

570
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: I hear what Stephen saying, I hear what the sheriff

571
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: is saying. Here's my analysis. Again, I don't want to

572
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: boil it down so simply that it doesn't hit all

573
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: the legal points. But again, when you don't know a horse,

574
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: look at his track record. I've told you about um

575
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: him coming down on threatening to shoot Richard Kelly, who

576
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: told that to Panella's County Sheriff's. Then you heard earlier

577
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: our friend Ben Crump describing a December two thousand twelve

578
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: incident a woman told Largo police a man driving a

579
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: black Toyota truck Draca pointed a gun at her and

580
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: the other people in her vehicle. She pointed the truck

581
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: out the truck to the cops. The cop goes and

582
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: speaks to Draca. He tells the officer the one was

583
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: driving too slow in the school's zone. I didn't even

584
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: know that was possible. He denied pointing the gun, but

585
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: he had the gun, and um there are other police

586
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: reports where he sits on the horn at people uh

587
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: in the other car, claiming other people shoot birds at

588
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: him and make rude hand gestures at him. But I

589
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: didn't tell you this. One January ten, two thousand twelve,

590
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: and eighteen year old Tyler Smith was driving with somebody

591
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: else in front of the car at a traffic light.

592
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: It turned, the light turned yellow. Smith, the boy, eighteen

593
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: year old, did not drive through the yellow light, and

594
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: he stopped his vehicle. Draca, in his truck, was behind him,

595
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: sat on his horn and started yelling, holding a black

596
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: handgun out the driver's side window of his vehicle, ordering

597
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: the boy Smith to walk back to his truck. That

598
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: would be a cold d a in h double l

599
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: Before I get out of the car and walk back

600
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: to a guy with a gun. He then followed the

601
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: teen boys car, passed it, and then slammed on the

602
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: brakes in front of him. Kenya, I mean really that

603
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: history is certainly gonna play a part at the trial

604
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: to negate the standard ground defense. But let's look at

605
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: standard ground. First of all, it's predicated on the fact

606
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: of seriously or deadly bodily injury. So we are putting

607
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: that standard that analysis in the hands of citizens that

608
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: may not understand what deadly force is. You can't bring

609
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: a gun to a fist fight. We live in a

610
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: society that is teaching our children that we saw dispute

611
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: using firearms. So what's gonna happen now is that the

612
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: jury is going to get a chance to hopefully have

613
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: a chance to hear about this pattern of aggressive behavior.

614
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: In addition, McLaughlin, initially it is the entire matter. So

615
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: what happens and the jury will see what happens when

616
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: someone creates this situation out of their own volition. This

617
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: wasn't what happenstance. He was aggressively pursuing this argument over

618
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: this handicap spot. And lastly, when the gun came out,

619
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: everyone retreated, So stand your ground also had to look

620
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: at whether the fact that the danger had ended when

621
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: the when the victims stepped back and everyone else around

622
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: step back, Well, then was the threat of deadly forced

623
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: still there? So was McLaughlin then authorized to use that

624
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: deadly force when everyone is trying to get away or

625
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: step back and run. So all those three things are

626
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: gonna play into this defense of stand your ground, and

627
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: hopefully the jury will be able to see right through

628
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: Robin Ficker based on what Kenya saying once again when

629
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the team boy once again, when cops

630
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: confront him, Draka says it was the teen's fault and

631
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: he did not follow the chain's car, nor did he

632
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: show his gun, but again he admitted he had one.

633
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: I mean, same thing with yelling at the Hispanic women

634
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: when the cop tells him to roll down the wind

635
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: and goes, I didn't put my gun, and they're like,

636
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: we didn't say that, you did me thinks thou doth

637
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: protest too much? H and the words of Shakespeare. So

638
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: what about that figure every time saying scenario every time,

639
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: same defense. Well, he wasn't convicted of any crime in

640
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: any one of those instances. I'm sure if he had

641
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: been he would no longer be licensed to carry a gun,

642
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: as he was still licensed in the McLaughlin situation, they

643
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: would have taken the gun away from him. So these

644
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: are were a lot of unproven hindsight review reviewed that

645
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: I give very little credibility and the jury isn't going

646
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: to find this guy guilty of playing three three different

647
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: people separated by time and space, is all come up

648
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: with the same story on Draca and now a guy's

649
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: dead in a parking spot. Guys, before I go any further,

650
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 1: we're taking your calls. Nine nine nine crime nine zero

651
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: nine four nine two seven four six three on the

652
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: phone from Florida, is Joe, Joe, this is your neck

653
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: of the woods. What's your tip question or theory? Yes,

654
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: well it's a coming first. Uh, you're right when you

655
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: say there's so much craziness happens in the state of Florida,

656
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: and particularly in Miami, where I lived for many years.

657
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a crazy, crazy state. And the Stanley

658
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: Stanley ground law should be voted down because it is

659
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: absolutely taken advantage of by anyone who wants to shoot

660
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: someone and not pay a penalty. The point is, yesterday

661
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: I saw two big men on a sidewalk arguing. One

662
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: punches the other. The guy falls into the gutter, and

663
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: immediately he pulls out the gun and he shoots the

664
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: guy who's still standing on the sidewalk. His life wasn't endangered.

665
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: The whole thing has been over with. I don't understand that.

666
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: You well, you know it goes back, Joe to the

667
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: theory of self defense. You have an absolute right to

668
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: defend yourself. But again, Joe, if you come up and

669
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: slap me or push me, I do not have the

670
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 1: right to pull out my oozy and shoot you dead

671
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: unless I feel that you are again advancing on me

672
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: and I have fear that you're going to kill me. Now,

673
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: that justifies deadly self defense. And I've looked at this

674
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: video over and over again. You see the victim coming out.

675
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: He walks, not runs. He walks up to the guy

676
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: and you can see to the to the left his

677
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: wife is now standing up. I guess that's his wife.

678
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: He comes between his wife and the shooter and he

679
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: pushes the shooter down and then he steps back. Then

680
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: the guy pulls a gun and shoots him dead, just

681
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: like that that's what happened, Joe. I mean, what you've

682
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: looked at the video? What what do you think? I

683
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: realized that there's no threat to the guy's life who's

684
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: pulling the gun and shooting the other one because he

685
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: was offended by what he said or did. Getting punched

686
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: into the sidewalk into the gutter is not enough, uh

687
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: excuse to start shooting at the guy who pushed him

688
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: in the sidewalk. Little little spatch and little fights breakout

689
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: all the time, and if someone has to has to

690
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: end up being dead because some guys, Oh right, I meant,

691
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Joe. I just I just saw it again.

692
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: I just saw him shoot the guy again. I mean,

693
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: you know, you'd think after all these years prosecuting and

694
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: covering these cases, I'd be immune to it. I just

695
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: saw it again. And the guy I don't want I

696
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: hate to repeat myself, but Chuck Roberts, the victim comes

697
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: out of the store. You can see the shooter pointing

698
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 1: his finger at the woman, you know, yelling at her,

699
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: yelling as she's standing there. You see the husband come

700
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: out of the store. He walks up, he gets between them,

701
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: and he pushes the guy back and the guy falls

702
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: down on his rear end. Then he takes out a

703
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: gun and shoots the man. Dad, Chuck, I mean, am

704
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: I missing something? Not at all? And the complaint itself

705
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: filed by a district attorney Bernie McCabe, said that the

706
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: findings of an autopsy were consistent with the video footage

707
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: in which mcglockton appeared to be turning a from Draca

708
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: when he was shot. I don't know how an autopsy

709
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,479
Speaker 1: can determine that, but that's in the complaints. Can tell

710
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: from the angle of the trajectory path, I mean, Dr Boberg,

711
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: you're the forensic psychiatrist. It's it's very A lot of times,

712
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: it's very easy to tell from the path the bullet takes.

713
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: If it's it's angled. You can tell the guys turning

714
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: away at the time of the shooting. This is gonna

715
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: be downward to upward. That's how that goes down exact. Yea,

716
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: and the shooter Jackie is pointing out to me, is

717
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: still on the ground. So that's where we get the

718
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: angular path from an elevated position. So Chuck Roberts go ahead. Well.

719
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: The complaint also says that they used a three D

720
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: scanner on the crime scene video and showed that the

721
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: distance between Drake and McLaughlin was about twelve feet. I'm

722
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: not sure whether that's uh, you know, crucial uh in

723
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: the investigation. But Dreaka faces three years in prison. It

724
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: is not clear at this point whether he has an attorney. Well,

725
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: if he doesn't have attorney, an attorney, he'll have one

726
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: appointed to him. To Stephen Lampley Um Stephen as a

727
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 1: police veteran, former s VU detective, author of Outside Your

728
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: Door stories and cases in his police career, including his

729
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 1: arrest of the Clearmont killer. That was no easy thing,

730
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,959
Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley. The more I look at this video, at first,

731
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: I was thinking, well, the victim pushed the guy. Is

732
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 1: that going to be construed as self defense? I look

733
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: at it. He comes, the victim comes right between walks up.

734
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: It's not like running like a mad dog. He walks

735
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: up out of the store. You can see another patron

736
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: running the store and say something. Then you see him

737
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: come out. He walks between the two, his wife and

738
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: the victor, the shooter, and he pushes him. He falls

739
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: on his rear end immediately pulls a gun and shoots

740
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: him dead. I'm just telling his Steve, and that just

741
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: just does not look like self defense, justifying mortal a

742
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: mortal wound. And see you're you're correct there. And I

743
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: watched the video over and over and over and over.

744
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, and uh, well, you know,

745
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: he's on the ground. He doesn't know what's going to

746
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: happen next. Although the mcglocktin pushes him down, it was

747
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: a pretty violent push, pushes him down to the ground

748
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: and and does take like a little lean into it,

749
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: but he backs up eventually. I did not, as as

750
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: nobody else to say, I did not see any additional

751
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: physical threat beyond that point. And then when he pulls

752
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 1: the gun out, uh, mcclocktin does back up and leave,

753
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: so that I did not see any additional physical threat

754
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: at that time. And I do I think that he

755
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: was shotting wrongly. Yeah, I do, based on that video,

756
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: and ultimately I believe that that's why he was invited

757
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: on that very fact. Well, I see the dad going

758
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: in the store with his little five year old following

759
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: along behind him. Then I see, you know, Draco waits

760
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: until the man is gone. Then he goes up and

761
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: starts yelling at the woman pointing at her, fussing at her.

762
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: You see a patron run in and get the dad.

763
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: He comes out. Drake is getting closer and closer to

764
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: the wife and Brittany Jacobs, and then you see him

765
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: come between them and push him away from the wife.

766
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: What about the theory of defense of another, Chuck Roberts,

767
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: That is a viable theory under the law, not just

768
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: defense of yourself, but the defense of a third party.

769
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: If I see someone attacking my husband or my children,

770
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: Dart Ryan, I'm going to get in there and start

771
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: start firs gonna fly. Okay, so I I every no

772
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: one has even mentioned defense of a third person. That's

773
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: defense of the wife. Brittany exactly. Yeah. I mean these

774
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: two laws are in conflict. I mean, in the past,

775
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: defense attorneys had to explain why their client deserved immunity

776
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: in the killing. But now, as of about a year ago,

777
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: they rewrote the law. The state has to prove that

778
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: someone who claims they were standing their ground are wrong.

779
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: The burden is on the state. And you don't need

780
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: to back away from a threat. You don't need to

781
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: walk away. You can stand your ground. Take a listen

782
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: to Brittany Brittany Jacob speaking to our friends at CBS

783
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: this morning. We're just trying to protake me his kids.

784
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: Do you want me to, you know, move my car?

785
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: But you know I have my right to part anywhere

786
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: I want to part. What did he take from you?

787
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: Yea m hm, My soul? You know, my partner. You

788
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: know we did everything together. You know it's tough. Nancy

789
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: Grace Cribs Stories, signing off, goodbye friend