Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Hog,
Speaker 1: but enough about me. My guest today has one of
Speaker 1: the most recognizable voices in modern folk music. As the
Speaker 1: frontman of the Lumineers, He's played packed stadiums across the
Speaker 1: country and helps spearhead the resurgence of roots rock along
Speaker 1: with the likes of Mumford and Suns and Fleet Boxes.
Speaker 1: This spring marks ten years since the release of their
Speaker 1: self titled debut, which features their breakthrough Smash ho Hey,
Speaker 1: as well as favorites like Stubborn Love and Submarines. Two
Speaker 1: more chart topping records were to follow, and now he
Speaker 1: and his musical partner Jeremiah Frates have released their fourth disc,
Speaker 1: Bright Side, which is available at this very moment for
Speaker 1: you're listening pleasure singles like AM Radio, Big Shot and
Speaker 1: the title track comes steeped in a sentimentality that's been
Speaker 1: well earned given the tumultuous last two years, which have
Speaker 1: been a perspective check for all of us. To be sure, now,
Speaker 1: the record is also something of a change a pace
Speaker 1: for the guys, and to talk more about why, I'm
Speaker 1: joined by Mr Wesley Schultz. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: you got a new album on the way bright Side,
Speaker 1: and the title really hits differently given the last two
Speaker 1: years we've had. Are these songs the bright side or
Speaker 1: the silver lining of two years stuck at home for you? Um?
Speaker 1: In a way, I think the way I was thinking
Speaker 1: about it was kind of just trying to um create
Speaker 1: a rally cry for for for myself, you know, because
Speaker 1: it was I felt pretty uh steamrolled by everything. I
Speaker 1: think that most people it was a slow drip though,
Speaker 1: was like okay, next month, Okay, next week, and then
Speaker 1: it just kept going on and on and on, And
Speaker 1: I think, UM, not so much trying to see the
Speaker 1: bright spots, but almost acknowledging that there there is a
Speaker 1: lot of, you know, trying times going on. In the
Speaker 1: last two years. There's been a lot of things to
Speaker 1: overcome and and acknowledging those and trying to still have
Speaker 1: I guess uh an attitude of like you can't you
Speaker 1: can't stop us from from trying, you know, like the
Speaker 1: kind one flew of the Cuckoo's Nest where he's like, well,
Speaker 1: at least I try damn it. At least it feels
Speaker 1: like that where you're you're not being you know, oblivious
Speaker 1: to what's going on around you. You're just you're just
Speaker 1: also trying to still try. You're not submitting. Yeah that's
Speaker 1: a great scene or cool hand Luke too. You're just
Speaker 1: gonna go try for it. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I
Speaker 1: think it's building on that. Have you learned anything new,
Speaker 1: either about music or even just about yourself in the
Speaker 1: last two years, given the really kind of transformative time
Speaker 1: we've had. Yeah, I mean I learned that I spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time you you kind of are what
Speaker 1: you repeatedly do, and you know, we spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time on the road and got really good at
Speaker 1: touring and that life. And then when it was almost
Speaker 1: like we were riding a bicycle and someone stuck a
Speaker 1: stick into the spokes and you fly over the handlebars,
Speaker 1: you know, and it just and and we were grounded
Speaker 1: for a while. And I think typically in the last
Speaker 1: ten years plus, there was always something else on the horizon.
Speaker 1: You know, there's always like if you're touring, then you
Speaker 1: get off the road, then maybe there's a break, then
Speaker 1: you write, then you record, then you tour again. It's
Speaker 1: like this strange carousel that you kind of fall in
Speaker 1: love with and you get a little bit adept at
Speaker 1: And so when everybody said we have to stay at
Speaker 1: home now, we weren't very I wasn't very good at
Speaker 1: just like living at home. I didn't know what I
Speaker 1: was doing, um, And so I think I learned how
Speaker 1: much I had acclimated to that other life over over
Speaker 1: the years, you know, and then and then had to
Speaker 1: relearn I mean, even just sharing duties as a father.
Speaker 1: Now I have two kids and just you know, my
Speaker 1: wife's been sick actually this past week and just waking
Speaker 1: up with the kids and just not with COVID. Lucky,
Speaker 1: but she tested every day. It was like every possible
Speaker 1: symptom was there, and for some reason it wasn't COVID. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, she um she you know, just getting up
Speaker 1: with both kids and dealing with that chaos and seeing
Speaker 1: how that works. You know, that's some something you've kind
Speaker 1: of sheltered from when you're on the road and playing
Speaker 1: shows constantly. So um. You know, there's a scene in
Speaker 1: that Johnny Cash movie where he's Joaquin Phoenix Johnny Cash,
Speaker 1: where he's I think he's like home for the holidays,
Speaker 1: or something, and he's just kind of a zombie and
Speaker 1: that can be a little bit of what you are
Speaker 1: and you're more at home in this strange environment on
Speaker 1: the road. And I think that that taught me a
Speaker 1: lot about a what my wife is dealing with on
Speaker 1: a constant basis. And also just like being a dad
Speaker 1: was a beautiful thing that I probably would have missed
Speaker 1: a lot of that time had I not been had
Speaker 1: I been out on the road. You know, I just
Speaker 1: there's not enough hours in the day. So um again,
Speaker 1: it's not so much like, oh this is good, right,
Speaker 1: it's just more this, this is a beautiful thing that
Speaker 1: came out of this just my son, you know, from
Speaker 1: the ages of one and a half to now almost four,
Speaker 1: being a lot more around him been amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's gotta be a really special bright side. I mean,
Speaker 1: does that has that impacted your relationship to music in
Speaker 1: any way? I mean, you hear I mean I'm not
Speaker 1: apparent myself, but you hear everybody say that. You know,
Speaker 1: your whole life changes, and the things that you know
Speaker 1: used to matter don't, and priorities shift and just things
Speaker 1: just your whole world changes. How is that has that
Speaker 1: shown up musically on on this new album. I know
Speaker 1: your daughter was born. I think last year. Um, how's
Speaker 1: that been? Now it's last year? Yeah, it's wild. Um
Speaker 1: it's the new year. Yeah. I think I've heard that
Speaker 1: a lot of people say when you become a parent,
Speaker 1: you know you you sort of like take an l
Speaker 1: every day. You know you you truly humbled. You know here,
Speaker 1: you make a you make this, uh, let's say, make
Speaker 1: a pasta dinner and your kids like I don't want this,
Speaker 1: you know, before cheerios and you're like I would have
Speaker 1: just gotten your cheerios. What. Um. And it's not as
Speaker 1: simple as making them do what you want them to
Speaker 1: do all the time. Um. I think it's made me
Speaker 1: really humble. I think also it's um, you know it
Speaker 1: sounds really basic or obvious, but I never really understood
Speaker 1: the passage of I never appreciated the passage of time
Speaker 1: in this sort of like I mentioned earlier, the carousel
Speaker 1: that exists when you're writing and touring, and that always
Speaker 1: kind of cycle repeats, cycle repeats. Time story feels like
Speaker 1: it stands still. It's almost like living in l A.
Speaker 1: You know, I could never live there because there's no seasons.
Speaker 1: It's like it would drive me crazy. And there's no
Speaker 1: seasons sometimes this because you're always You're always on in
Speaker 1: the next and I seeing my son just sprout up
Speaker 1: and grow and I was like, oh, it created a
Speaker 1: sense of urgency within me to try to say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I only have time is flying by. But
Speaker 1: I was always like, oh, I have all this time.
Speaker 1: I have all this time, so in and not to
Speaker 1: be morbid, but in a funny way, I lost my
Speaker 1: dad in two thousand and seven, and that you know,
Speaker 1: he died young, and I realized, like, I have I
Speaker 1: don't know how much time I'll have, so I really
Speaker 1: need to like make the most of this because there's
Speaker 1: a level of urgency here, like I could go like
Speaker 1: he went, he's my dad, you don't know so um
Speaker 1: So anyway, that that sort of idea of time being
Speaker 1: really exemplified in your kids and just physically looking at
Speaker 1: them and saying like, my daughter is getting all these
Speaker 1: teeth now all of a sudden, you know, I went
Speaker 1: from zero to five teeth. You know, it seemed like overnight.
Speaker 1: So that that type of stuff, I think creates a
Speaker 1: fire within you to say I want to really do
Speaker 1: something special while I'm here with this music and enjoy
Speaker 1: it also, I mean enjoying making bright Side was was
Speaker 1: kind of a strangely new experience. A lot of what
Speaker 1: we did in the past with making records was more
Speaker 1: of it felt like, you know, a toil and like
Speaker 1: pulling teeth in a way where you're kind of just
Speaker 1: you're you're trying so hard that you're trying to control
Speaker 1: too much. And this was more you know, stream of
Speaker 1: consciousness or curiosity or like childlike wonderment going into it,
Speaker 1: which gave it a brand new feel. For being our
Speaker 1: fourth album. You know, it doesn't sound or feel like
Speaker 1: the other ones because we didn't really plan much out.
Speaker 1: It was just kind of flowing out. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: spontaneity there, I think, I I it's apparent on so
Speaker 1: many of the tracks. I think I read on the
Speaker 1: title track it came together in a day, which I mean,
Speaker 1: to me just sounds so fast. I mean, how did
Speaker 1: what led? Do you approaching it differently? Was it just
Speaker 1: almost more of because I mean, your last album three
Speaker 1: came about I think you were in the middle of
Speaker 1: touring it when the pandemic hit. So was this did
Speaker 1: you intend to set out to write a new album
Speaker 1: or was it kind of like, well, we've got this time,
Speaker 1: let's let's start creating music and see what happens. And
Speaker 1: it was a little more free form than usual. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, uh so. I I started out the pandemic. Um,
Speaker 1: we didn't really I didn't really get to spend any
Speaker 1: time with Jare, who I read all the songs with. Um.
Speaker 1: Jared and I grew up together, been playing music and
Speaker 1: writing together for sixteen years, and um, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of fear, you know. Uh So we didn't
Speaker 1: really see each other for a while, so we're just
Speaker 1: sitting there. He eventually makes a solo record, and so
Speaker 1: do I. Mine is his is like almost classical. Style
Speaker 1: of mine is all cover songs. And when I did mine,
Speaker 1: it was I was out in the cat Skills and
Speaker 1: I was just I was writing a motorcycle to and
Speaker 1: from the studio and just showing up and we'd record
Speaker 1: and then I'd leave and we'd have two songs that
Speaker 1: seemed like finished every day. And I had no faith
Speaker 1: in myself until that. Until doing that that, I really could,
Speaker 1: you know, leave it to chance in a way, or
Speaker 1: leave it to the last minute. It was always like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've had so many experiences where there's like a recency
Speaker 1: bias where you you make something you think it's great, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, today's what Tuesday, and on Wednesday you hate
Speaker 1: it so our Thursday. So there was this sort of
Speaker 1: suspicion of my own thoughts, you know, with that, and
Speaker 1: this was letting that go and just being free and
Speaker 1: so going into right side. It was almost like making
Speaker 1: that solo record that was sort of just a a
Speaker 1: labor of love, like, hey, I love I love so
Speaker 1: many of these artists in these songs. Let's do that, uh,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if I have it in me
Speaker 1: to just write a whole new luminous record with Chair
Speaker 1: and we can't really even get together at this point too. Now,
Speaker 1: we we got together, and when we were there, I
Speaker 1: kept thinking like, well, let's not overly planned this, because
Speaker 1: that was really fun when I just experienced and then uh,
Speaker 1: Jared went right along with that, and I think we
Speaker 1: were both really impressed with how fast the time went
Speaker 1: in the studio and how much we still are in
Speaker 1: love with the music we made then and we don't
Speaker 1: have to be quite so you know, suspicious of It's
Speaker 1: like almost like we were like it's guilty until proven,
Speaker 1: and it's in terms of like ideas, we were like,
Speaker 1: this is god to be bad. There's no way this
Speaker 1: is good, whereas this one was more like can you
Speaker 1: believe it? Can you believe it? Like That's how bright
Speaker 1: Side was done in the day, because we didn't spend
Speaker 1: that much time. You know, the song bright Side that
Speaker 1: is was done in a day. We didn't spend that
Speaker 1: much time over analyzing. It was just like do you
Speaker 1: love it? I love it? Boom, let's go, let's keep going.
Speaker 1: And that's a new thing for us. You know. I
Speaker 1: kind of wish we would have done it like that
Speaker 1: all along, but I don't think we were exactly ready
Speaker 1: for that. I mean, you mentioned you're so vignette, and
Speaker 1: it's cover songs of what I imagine we really formative
Speaker 1: influence for you, Bruce Springsteen, Jim Crochy, Warren Yvon, Tom
Speaker 1: waits Uh in addition to just being able to to
Speaker 1: tackle these songs so quickly. Did having those those early
Speaker 1: influences in your mind? Did that take you back to
Speaker 1: a certain place? I mean, I guess the fact that
Speaker 1: you record a day m radio the video for it
Speaker 1: at your high school. I feel like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of looking back on this record, and I was wondering
Speaker 1: if I feel like so many people I know myself
Speaker 1: included during the pandemic, have been listening to songs from
Speaker 1: when we were younger as kind of like musical comfort food.
Speaker 1: I was wondering if the actual compositions, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: bear those marks of early influences from when you were
Speaker 1: first falling in love with music. Yeah, you never, I've
Speaker 1: never really thought about that way, but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think that's a lot of where we go, you know,
Speaker 1: to feel something. You know, you're kind of numb. I was,
Speaker 1: so you get so numb throughout this whole uh last
Speaker 1: now almost two years. Um a way to tap back
Speaker 1: into yourself as to say where I come from? You
Speaker 1: know where I come from musically, where I Where are
Speaker 1: these all these beautiful memories that were attached to this
Speaker 1: music before the world seemed to stop, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: So I think part of it was that, and then
Speaker 1: part of it was trying to you know, I had
Speaker 1: a friend he went to Berkeley. He used to be
Speaker 1: in our band and then he went to Berkeley and
Speaker 1: he's he's a really avant garde kind of jazz music
Speaker 1: kind of guy. And his name is Joe. And Joe said,
Speaker 1: you know, I love what you guys are doing, and
Speaker 1: we were kind of like downplaying it. Hey, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not what you do. And he's like, if you
Speaker 1: love playing a G chord, or just play a G chord, like,
Speaker 1: stop stop trying to impress some other music person in
Speaker 1: the room and make music for you, and and and
Speaker 1: and that that leve will emanate and that will like
Speaker 1: kind of radio out. And and this album is very
Speaker 1: much I think like that where there's not an ego
Speaker 1: in it. It's just some these these songs that were following,
Speaker 1: you know, we loved making and then going back to
Speaker 1: the high school, it was like part of it is
Speaker 1: realizing your attitude back then was a beautiful one. A
Speaker 1: lot of times, you know, it was like you you
Speaker 1: felt indestructible, and I think just trying to find that
Speaker 1: again within us, because you feel all of us feel
Speaker 1: so vulnerable and fragile and like everything can be stripped
Speaker 1: away in a moment. Because of how this played out,
Speaker 1: I think psychologically maybe that was why I wanted to
Speaker 1: go there as a like from the lyrical standpoint and
Speaker 1: from the feeling was just I like that feeling invincible
Speaker 1: and invincibility. I like going on that first drive with
Speaker 1: your friend who just got his license or maybe he
Speaker 1: doesn't have his license and you're in a car and
Speaker 1: you're just driving and you're lighting a cigarette, you're breaking
Speaker 1: a bottle behind a convenience store, and you're you just
Speaker 1: kind of like you feel like the world is yours,
Speaker 1: as opposed to right now, you're you don't even belong
Speaker 1: in this world, you know. It's kind of so maybe
Speaker 1: it was that too. It wasn't so much conscious as
Speaker 1: it was that feels good to think about those things
Speaker 1: that feels good to And it wasn't even like I
Speaker 1: want to be that age again, and I just I
Speaker 1: want that attitude. I want that feeling again, that you know,
Speaker 1: feeling of being fifteen or something and if someone plays
Speaker 1: you some song you had never heard and it changes
Speaker 1: your life, you know, which is like a m radio.
Speaker 1: Where we shot the video at our old high school,
Speaker 1: which it would have been my union this year. I've
Speaker 1: never set foot in it in twenty years, so it
Speaker 1: was really strange to go back and be like, this
Speaker 1: is my first time back, and some of my fellow classmates,
Speaker 1: a couple of from like teachers now and um, it's
Speaker 1: just wild, you know, going back and um, but the
Speaker 1: passage of time and like realizing, oh, you know, some
Speaker 1: of us kept that innocence and that curiosity. It's like
Speaker 1: what we loved about what we continue to love. I
Speaker 1: think as fans, if you're a fan of Neil Young,
Speaker 1: is that he just always seems like in wonderment of
Speaker 1: what he's doing, he's like gets lost in it. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not um scientific, it's not clinical. It's it's
Speaker 1: just like a guy who loves what he does and
Speaker 1: almost approaches it like a kid would. Oh totally. I was.
Speaker 1: I was waxing poetic with a friend recently about his solos,
Speaker 1: and this is going to come out as an insult,
Speaker 1: and I mean it as the highest compliment. I love
Speaker 1: the fact that he so many of his solos it's
Speaker 1: like he can't play them, but he plays them anyway.
Speaker 1: It's just sheer force of will, him just hitting that
Speaker 1: gretch or whatever it is. And I love that. And
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier about being you know, fifteen years old,
Speaker 1: and that that sense of confidence, for lack of a
Speaker 1: better term, I mean, I feel like in those days,
Speaker 1: we don't have that judgment voice in our head when
Speaker 1: we're trying to create. You're just doing it and the
Speaker 1: fact that you're making anything is so exciting. And then
Speaker 1: later on you think, oh that sucks. And the older
Speaker 1: you get, the more you think, I've done this, this
Speaker 1: is bad, this will never work there. And how do
Speaker 1: you balance, um, keeping that sense of youthful freedom while
Speaker 1: also being somebody with you know, a season's musician with
Speaker 1: twenty years of touring under your belt, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you balance those those those two sides of you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think, Um, part of it is you're
Speaker 1: constantly I mean I just watched the Beatles documentary, you know,
Speaker 1: all nine hours of it. It was it was great. Um.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I noticed, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is what they were doing, but to me,
Speaker 1: it's what they were doing, is they were constantly playing
Speaker 1: other people's songs, kind of goofing around, And it was
Speaker 1: in my head it was their way of forgetting what
Speaker 1: they were there to do, you know, putting them hypnotizing
Speaker 1: themselves so that the real stuff could come out. Because
Speaker 1: if you just sit there and you just you know,
Speaker 1: hack away at the same thing over and over and
Speaker 1: sort of beat a dead horse. You don't get you
Speaker 1: were And so part of trying to silence the inner
Speaker 1: critic is to just forget that you're there to make
Speaker 1: something that will later be judged. You know, you're just
Speaker 1: you're just playing stuff and you're poking around in the dark,
Speaker 1: and something happens, like, you know, get back, where what
Speaker 1: is this? And uh, it's but I feel like that's
Speaker 1: that's a lot of you know, it doesn't happen all
Speaker 1: the time, but when it happens, Uh, it's so special.
Speaker 1: And Paul knew it. And that's the other thing is
Speaker 1: you can have something really special and he shows it
Speaker 1: to John and John's like, all right, there's nothing like
Speaker 1: you've done it, you know, which I think is what
Speaker 1: a lot of people assume. It's like there's an instinct
Speaker 1: in the room with someone, someone's someone's leading some sort
Speaker 1: of charge about it and and magic happens. So I
Speaker 1: think part of it is just forgetting to be innocent,
Speaker 1: is to forget what you're there to do, and you're
Speaker 1: just playing around. You know. It's just like you know,
Speaker 1: that's how the song bright Side began. Jared was warming
Speaker 1: up you know, and like the drum beat for that
Speaker 1: was him was warming up and kind of imitating what
Speaker 1: I was playing on guitar and then taking it in
Speaker 1: his own direction. And then once he did that, now
Speaker 1: my guitar parts not there anymore because he's playing the
Speaker 1: thing I was doing. So now I have to do something.
Speaker 1: And it's almost like improvisation versus you know, Okay, you
Speaker 1: did that, so then I'm gonna do It's not so
Speaker 1: you know, planned out scientific, which I think is a
Speaker 1: big part of that feeling of innocence, is just and
Speaker 1: then also just actually not there's nowhere else to go.
Speaker 1: You've left yourself. The only way to go is to
Speaker 1: do it in that room. Instead of well we have
Speaker 1: a good song, but let's try to beat it. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: we didn't really have a song yet. We just had
Speaker 1: a shitty voice memo that we're going to build off of.
Speaker 1: So part of it, I think is setting yourself up
Speaker 1: to have that. But I wish I had, Like I
Speaker 1: said earlier, I wish I had approached every album this way.
Speaker 1: But then again, I'm like, it's money, you can't really
Speaker 1: plan that much about it. I don't know if that
Speaker 1: was our personality or a confidence level before, because what
Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of it is just just
Speaker 1: like almost bravado, but like a naive bravado, like you know,
Speaker 1: like I remember Simon, our producer, he kept like putting
Speaker 1: his middle fingers in the air like like all the time,
Speaker 1: and everybody started doing that. It was just like this
Speaker 1: attitude that you feel when you're of a certain mindset,
Speaker 1: a certain age, that you try to just live within
Speaker 1: that while you're doing it, but easier. I don't know
Speaker 1: how Nil Young has maintained that and and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's incredible, or even you know Tom Petty when
Speaker 1: he was alive, or Bruce Springsteen. Um, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people that I grew up listening to that have
Speaker 1: maintained into their later years in some beautiful, beautiful way.
Speaker 1: And you just try to like sponge it off of
Speaker 1: them of like how do they do that? You know,
Speaker 1: try to feel their vibe. I had read that in
Speaker 1: the UH in the studio when you start sessions for
Speaker 1: a new album, you have a kind of a mood
Speaker 1: board with with pictures and quotes, and this time around,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true. I read that you
Speaker 1: had a picture of Liam and Noel Gallagher on stage
Speaker 1: and like, you know net net Worth or something in
Speaker 1: nineties six? What what was that? I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: hearing what you just said about, you know, middle fingers
Speaker 1: in the air, raw power and naive. Hey, I guess
Speaker 1: that kind of was that kind of what you're going
Speaker 1: for with the uh the Nolan Liam picture? Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I was Simon's idea, Simon Police of the Police Brothers,
Speaker 1: you know. It kind of a band I fell in
Speaker 1: love with two thousand and seven. We went and saw
Speaker 1: them the next year in a little church that was
Speaker 1: became a bar like a It was a beautiful scene
Speaker 1: and they became they were a really big influence, not
Speaker 1: only because we love their music, but just the way
Speaker 1: that they unapologetically recorded, you know, and it's it's like,
Speaker 1: is that a demo? Is that finished? Uh? It was
Speaker 1: so rough around the edges, but it was so compeeding,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, why am I questioning this?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you watch old movies that came
Speaker 1: out today, people say how they're trying to go for
Speaker 1: that vintage. Look, It's just like it's what they had
Speaker 1: and that's how they made movies. It's not trying to
Speaker 1: be anything, but um yeah, I think that the net Worth. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen the documentary of people listeners haven't
Speaker 1: ever seen it. There's a beautiful documentary about Oasis. Um
Speaker 1: and they the movie ends with them going to this
Speaker 1: playing the show and it's huge at net Worth. And basically,
Speaker 1: I think Simon thought to himself, you know, I think
Speaker 1: these guys are always kind of like me and Jarre,
Speaker 1: are constantly trying to shed ego when it comes to
Speaker 1: a song, when it comes to performance, you know, you
Speaker 1: try to serve the song. And He's like, as much
Speaker 1: as I love that, you guys got to accept that
Speaker 1: just like those guys are Oasis, like you guys the
Speaker 1: Lumine Ears, and you guys started this in your mom's
Speaker 1: you know, little attic and then you continued it on
Speaker 1: and went to Denver and now you're here and you
Speaker 1: need to kind of embrace that instead of you know,
Speaker 1: pawning it off. I mean, like, well no, because it is,
Speaker 1: because it is. It's like, you know, have to have
Speaker 1: some of that swagger and pride in what you do
Speaker 1: with each other and own that a little more and
Speaker 1: and that and that's what you know, I think that's
Speaker 1: what he And then he also put the word free
Speaker 1: up on the wall and and that was all in
Speaker 1: his head. And then I was like, can I have
Speaker 1: one more? I wrote the word anthem because I thought
Speaker 1: there was like a lot of there's a synthemic quality
Speaker 1: to a lot of what we had already started to
Speaker 1: trying to work on, um and that an anthem can
Speaker 1: be slow, it can be it could be like nothing
Speaker 1: that radio would ever play, and it will still be
Speaker 1: an anthem. It's like, that's the funny thing about you know,
Speaker 1: music is that it doesn't it finds a way, like
Speaker 1: good songs find a way, you know, listening to like
Speaker 1: seven Nation Army, you have soccer stadiums around the world
Speaker 1: chanting that. It's like crazy. You know. That's not a
Speaker 1: guy who set out to do that. But his music
Speaker 1: became an anthem for it was a feeling. So I
Speaker 1: think Simon had he just he did. He does such
Speaker 1: a good job as a producer um that his instincts
Speaker 1: were right on. They were like right in line what
Speaker 1: we needed to hear. And you have record I think
Speaker 1: this is your I think your third album. If your
Speaker 1: corded up in the in the Hudson Valley. What is
Speaker 1: it about that area? I mean, I've been there myself.
Speaker 1: I love it. There's definitely an energy and the history
Speaker 1: obviously with you know the band and Bob Dylan and
Speaker 1: Van Morrison and Todd Rendgren and and all those incredible people.
Speaker 1: What is it about that that that reason for you
Speaker 1: that really really speaks to you. Yeah, we have even
Speaker 1: in the studio we're working out of there. Just down
Speaker 1: the hill is where Jimmie Hendricks spot was, and then
Speaker 1: just near Simon where he lives, which is like ten
Speaker 1: miles away, is down the road is where Van Morrison
Speaker 1: and Moon dance. So there's all this like history around,
Speaker 1: but it's not just Um, I think the allure is
Speaker 1: that you're in a different space, headspace when you're out there,
Speaker 1: and that you, um, you don't know quite why. You
Speaker 1: know it's a special area. You don't really know it's
Speaker 1: a historic area. There were those Catskill Mountains were mystical
Speaker 1: to people. People would come up the Hudson and look
Speaker 1: over and see them and freak out, and then they'd
Speaker 1: go out there and check it out. And there's something
Speaker 1: like I would say, there's a mysticism there. Rip Bandwinkle.
Speaker 1: You know, all these things are from that area. Um
Speaker 1: So I think when we go out there, there's a there,
Speaker 1: there's an ability to tap into something that you don't
Speaker 1: really get if you're in I remember recording in l
Speaker 1: A and you step out of the studio it's actually
Speaker 1: sound city and you step out and it's it's a
Speaker 1: parking lot and the nearest place to eat is a
Speaker 1: car dealership that has a great tun of salad sandwich.
Speaker 1: It's like the weirdest uh, It's not to me, It's
Speaker 1: not what I need when I'm taking a break. And
Speaker 1: when I want to look out, I don't want to
Speaker 1: look at it concrete and pavement and highways. I want
Speaker 1: to see there's something more serene that calms me down
Speaker 1: because there's there's a lot of emotion making a record,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of roller coaster I guess you
Speaker 1: could say, like any sort of writer, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: like the Shining, you kind of go nuts and you
Speaker 1: need you kind of you need something to chill you out.
Speaker 1: And so for me, that's that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1: And then just knowing those mountains, there's something about them
Speaker 1: that that they're older and Wiser. We've talked to something
Speaker 1: about this. You know, I live in Denver and we
Speaker 1: have the Rockies and those are what one of the
Speaker 1: world's youngest mountain ranges. So they're real, they're real, like
Speaker 1: sharp and almost a gro and then these these Catskill
Speaker 1: Mountains are smooth and like almost rolling. They're tall, but
Speaker 1: there they've been worn down over time and they know things.
Speaker 1: It's it's weird, it's like there's a wisdom in them.
Speaker 1: And and these are more like they represent in Denver,
Speaker 1: like the West, you know, people coming out here and
Speaker 1: adventure and manifest destiny. Yeah, yeah, it's wild. So um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to it. But it's almost like you
Speaker 1: can't really you've been out there so you kind of know.
Speaker 1: It's like you can't really necessarily explain it. It's just
Speaker 1: a feeling kind of like the kind of like the record. Honestly,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of our records we've made are so literal,
Speaker 1: especially the last one and even Cleopatra Um. The stories
Speaker 1: are like rooted in almost like folk music in the
Speaker 1: sense that there's a story, and these are way more
Speaker 1: like rock songs where they're on bright side. Whether it's
Speaker 1: like you put the story aside, and you're just trying
Speaker 1: to wash a feeling over the audience, you know, try
Speaker 1: to cast a spell of like this is where, this
Speaker 1: is what I feel if you feel this. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you mentioned stories because I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1: I mean, so many stories are just so potent in
Speaker 1: your music. I mean, you know, almost as potent as
Speaker 1: the melodies in some places. And something I really lovel
Speaker 1: about the lyrics on on this record is it seems
Speaker 1: less linear and almost more impressionistic, like you know, Never
Speaker 1: Really Mind is one of my favorites because it's it's
Speaker 1: so raw. And then I think I read somewhere you
Speaker 1: were saying you wanted to evoke a couple fighting so
Speaker 1: loud that neighbors were you know, called the cops on
Speaker 1: them or something, and I and I heard that, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I totally picked up on on
Speaker 1: that feeling. I never would have thought to articulate it
Speaker 1: like that, but that's exactly what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1: I mean that that was I really I sensed the
Speaker 1: difference in the lyrics, and I thought it was really
Speaker 1: really potent, and I that those feelings definitely came through
Speaker 1: in a way that you know, wasn't linear but still
Speaker 1: just as evocative. Yeah, and I think we brought Milion earlier.
Speaker 1: He does it better than anyone, and Kurt o'bain did
Speaker 1: it amazingly well. And people go through their phases. Bob
Speaker 1: Dylan seems to like drift in and out of that
Speaker 1: and then telling stories. It's it's interesting, but um, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I think that this record gave me such an
Speaker 1: appreciation for working in a partnership with Jare Jeremiah about
Speaker 1: like collaboration is a beautiful thing and it's no longer
Speaker 1: You're no longer on an island. You have a partner
Speaker 1: in crime. Um. So like with never really Mine, if
Speaker 1: you could hear what he sent me, would you'd laugh
Speaker 1: because where it ended up is so different. But I
Speaker 1: would have never said those words to begin with. And
Speaker 1: that's where collaboration or we laid that song down and
Speaker 1: then he added, he's almost like I pictured like Dave
Speaker 1: grow when he was fifteen playing those drums. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's just very teenage jare playing drums to it,
Speaker 1: but a lot of them. I mean, Um, there's a
Speaker 1: song Birthday that he sent me and he sounded really
Speaker 1: desperate he sounded like really uh, like he was losing
Speaker 1: his mind, and I think he kind of was. He was.
Speaker 1: He just moved Italy and he's living with his in
Speaker 1: laws for months and it was just a hard time.
Speaker 1: It's the pandemic um. They have a newborn and or
Speaker 1: a toddler rather, so he sent me this is his
Speaker 1: voice memo and he sounds like he's like slowly losing
Speaker 1: his mind. But it made me like I would have
Speaker 1: never wrote it's all right, it's a right, it's the right,
Speaker 1: it's your birthday, Like why would you say it's all right?
Speaker 1: You know, like he's But the way he sung it
Speaker 1: was so perfect and so like again the collaboration, I
Speaker 1: think on this record there is more innocence, and I
Speaker 1: think Jared the way he writes lyrics is so rooted
Speaker 1: in more of a feeling that I learned a lot
Speaker 1: just and I would adopt a lot of what he
Speaker 1: said uncertain songs that I would have never done on
Speaker 1: my own. And again, that's a way that you can evolve,
Speaker 1: Just like there are way more drums on this album
Speaker 1: than there were on any of the other albums we've made,
Speaker 1: because Jared was always serving the song and because we
Speaker 1: were almost it reminds me a little white stripes where
Speaker 1: he was like all I needed just kind of back spat,
Speaker 1: you know, that was the blues. That was the blues
Speaker 1: to him, and he was doing that, and for us
Speaker 1: it was like somehow rooted in a similar feeling of
Speaker 1: like it doesn't need more than that, don't do more.
Speaker 1: And then this time around he kind of let it
Speaker 1: rip a little bit more like like he was just
Speaker 1: messing around with the song and so you hear him
Speaker 1: do what he's always been able to do. But we
Speaker 1: kept calling him Jersey ringo hen have all these like
Speaker 1: clever little beats um. But yeah, it was it's it
Speaker 1: was just it was. It was a process that I think, uh,
Speaker 1: the result is because of the you don't really you know,
Speaker 1: you don't really get there unless there's some authentic feeling
Speaker 1: behind it to cast that feeling. So I think we
Speaker 1: really became like we we transported back in time in
Speaker 1: our minds and like, oh, how let's let's act as
Speaker 1: if act as if we're we're doing the best thing ever.
Speaker 1: That's and that's oasis. You know, they were like we're
Speaker 1: the greatest in the world. And then you and then
Speaker 1: later on they'll say, well, the Beatles, we've always just
Speaker 1: been copying to beat us, but we're still the best band.
Speaker 1: And you know, they had this humility because they knew
Speaker 1: who like the best was, but they also wanted to
Speaker 1: be great and they wanted to do something powerful and
Speaker 1: they did a really that that documentary and we talked
Speaker 1: about just a few minutes ago. It was like it
Speaker 1: totally changed my perspective on the band. Um, And I
Speaker 1: think I think a lot of people have ideas of
Speaker 1: who we are, and that's what's fun for any band
Speaker 1: is to just maybe go in a new direction and
Speaker 1: hopefully people come with you. But it's never a bad
Speaker 1: sign if people go I like the other stuff better,
Speaker 1: because that means you're changing and evolving, and it's like natural,
Speaker 1: they're gonna you're gonna lose some people, you're gonna gaine
Speaker 1: some people. It's just how it worked. But if you
Speaker 1: kind of stay the same, it's not It's like those
Speaker 1: actors who always do like a rom com. That's what
Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey broke out of. You know, he went into
Speaker 1: that more text and then somehow crawled out of it.
Speaker 1: And I think, um, when you when you feel like
Speaker 1: you have a mastery or like a command over something,
Speaker 1: you you just do it. There's not much risk in that,
Speaker 1: and the people sense that, and then it just becomes
Speaker 1: like boring to the artist and to the listener. So
Speaker 1: for us that was also a beautiful part of it
Speaker 1: was just like not quite sure what we're doing most
Speaker 1: of the time, but but having a higher level of
Speaker 1: skill than we had ten years ago. So maybe that
Speaker 1: not when we're doing actually is listenable, you know, instead
Speaker 1: of just like what we're rethinking. Well, it's something I
Speaker 1: always love to ask people who are sort of blessed
Speaker 1: with the ability to write music, which which I myself
Speaker 1: I'm not, And it's been great because I always get
Speaker 1: such an incredible variety of answers. I'm always curious what
Speaker 1: compels people to write. Is it a desire to connect
Speaker 1: with other people and you know, reach out and connect
Speaker 1: with people, or is it just to get something out
Speaker 1: of you and you would write just as much of
Speaker 1: you are on a desert island somewhere. It's all about
Speaker 1: the exorcism. Just do one motivate you more than the others?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it more of a desire to connect
Speaker 1: or is it more of a desire just to express
Speaker 1: and the other person on the other end of it
Speaker 1: almost doesn't factor into it. Yeah. Well I grew up
Speaker 1: my dad was a psychologist and I was gonna be one.
Speaker 1: I was. I was like, you should name it Schultz
Speaker 1: and Sun because I'm gonna be like, I'll work under
Speaker 1: you and then I'll take it over. You know. I
Speaker 1: was so interested in people. I found them really fascinating. Um,
Speaker 1: on an individual level, you know what makes people do
Speaker 1: the most seemingly contradictory things That they're not caricatures like
Speaker 1: you think, they're not automatons that you can predict where
Speaker 1: what they're gonna behave Like, Um, there's like so there's
Speaker 1: a genuine interest in people, and then there's also this
Speaker 1: like idea that it's strange, but like expressing loneliness and
Speaker 1: hearing other people expressed loneliness makes me feel connected in
Speaker 1: some strange ways. So, like the human condition I think
Speaker 1: is one that you you're you're always battling that feeling
Speaker 1: of being alone and you don't really know how to
Speaker 1: shake that. But sometimes when someone says I feel alone,
Speaker 1: you feel less alone. It's a strange thing that happens
Speaker 1: um and So. I think part of it is trying
Speaker 1: to feel alive through expressing not only pain but sometimes
Speaker 1: hope in the face of that um and and and
Speaker 1: it's probably more of a selfish thing to your question,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's so much like I wanted to
Speaker 1: connect with a bunch of people. I wasn't like lonely
Speaker 1: and needed to connect that way. I was just fascinated
Speaker 1: by the idea that you could express your own path,
Speaker 1: your own thoughts, and your own experiences and somehow that
Speaker 1: translates to someone else. That's still a great mystery to me.
Speaker 1: But I love that about music, and I love that
Speaker 1: about other people's songs. You know, I listened to before
Speaker 1: I go on stage when we're playing often like bigger places,
Speaker 1: I will always put on something that makes me start
Speaker 1: to cry, like before the show, because I'm like, if
Speaker 1: I go out there and I'm like, just hey, guys,
Speaker 1: what's up, Like, that's not where I need to be.
Speaker 1: I need to actually have raw emotion like on me
Speaker 1: and then just give that or otherwise it's gonna feel
Speaker 1: like a Vegas like. So, so I'll listen to these
Speaker 1: certain songs, and that's an example of like those songs
Speaker 1: what they do to me, that was the fascination, like
Speaker 1: how do I, how do I? How can I do that?
Speaker 1: Because that, to me that made me feel less alone
Speaker 1: in some strange way, and like can I can I
Speaker 1: do that? You know indirectly for other people and also
Speaker 1: for myself? And that's the black magic of music. That's
Speaker 1: like the strangest mystical part of it is that if
Speaker 1: you tried to explain this to an alien, they would
Speaker 1: never understand your It's like Terminator when he's like, why
Speaker 1: are your eyes you know wet or you know leaking
Speaker 1: or whatever he asked, It's like we are moved to tear,
Speaker 1: We moved to laughter and moved to hug total strangers
Speaker 1: through music. That's incredible. Um. So there was that there
Speaker 1: was wanted to be a part of that I think
Speaker 1: was the biggest uh appeal to music was just like
Speaker 1: this is like crazy, how do I be a part
Speaker 1: of this? Um? And and it's paid Like to me,
Speaker 1: it's paid me back tenfold. You know. It's like but
Speaker 1: it is funny because if you if you make something
Speaker 1: that you think is cool um for someone else, it
Speaker 1: never works. It's always like something that you didn't want
Speaker 1: to share or you didn't want to go there. That
Speaker 1: often gets that gets through to people. Um, so you're
Speaker 1: almost like this weird sacrificial lamb to your to your audience,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna, you know, talk about your scars and
Speaker 1: your wounds and your feelings so that they can feel
Speaker 1: all right. It's like a strange, strange things. But it's
Speaker 1: like it's a noble I think it's a noble act. Oh. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an incredibly beautiful wy to put It
Speaker 1: makes me think of the video for for bright Side,
Speaker 1: which I mean for anyone who hasn't seen it brings
Speaker 1: some tissues. First of all, uh, it is really really beautiful.
Speaker 1: It opens with um, a whole assortment of people being
Speaker 1: asked what is love to you? And you know there's
Speaker 1: everybody from teenage hitchhikers to middle aged nudists to a
Speaker 1: elderly widower and who I mean some of the responses
Speaker 1: are are pretty gutting, but but absolutely beautiful. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it speaks to your point earlier about you know,
Speaker 1: being interested in people, and I think watching that as
Speaker 1: the setup to your song puts the song in a
Speaker 1: totally different light. It kind of prepares you emotionally to
Speaker 1: receive the message of that song to me, at least
Speaker 1: as a as a fan and someone who listened to
Speaker 1: it and enjoyed it very much. And that was the director.
Speaker 1: Kyle Thrash did a beautiful job with that music video
Speaker 1: for bright Side. And you know, he kind of makes
Speaker 1: these almost like documentary style music videos, so all those
Speaker 1: people weren't actors. They were just kind of like being
Speaker 1: asked about themselves. And there's a scene where people are
Speaker 1: riding around on these quads and like a swamp and
Speaker 1: that's just what they were doing, and he's like, can
Speaker 1: I film some of this? You know? So the whole
Speaker 1: thing is just a peek into other people's lives and
Speaker 1: how love, you know, breaks people's hearts and connects people
Speaker 1: and everything in between. Um, he did like such a
Speaker 1: beautiful job with that with that video, and I think
Speaker 1: it again, like I think it was a good approach
Speaker 1: two the song because the song is much more about
Speaker 1: a feeling than like, hey, what happened in this story?
Speaker 1: You know, Hey, I hear this guy's doing mushrooms in
Speaker 1: a hotel, Like what happened? Like there's nothing, it's just
Speaker 1: more these these people are on like almost you know,
Speaker 1: a weird road trip together trying to get away from something,
Speaker 1: and that was what my whole like twenties was spent doing.
Speaker 1: So it was like it was a look back on that,
Speaker 1: but it was also like a feeling, and and I
Speaker 1: thought the people tell it better than trying to be
Speaker 1: so on and knows about it. You know, you just
Speaker 1: kind of talk around it and try to illustrate through
Speaker 1: other people's experiences. Well, I guess it's only fair. I
Speaker 1: gotta ask you, what is what is love? To you?
Speaker 1: M man? That's such an unfair question. I'm sorry. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: I think love the best way I can put it
Speaker 1: is that love is like that if you love someone,
Speaker 1: it's impossible to understand your life, as like the whole
Speaker 1: whole life turns on a U and an access and
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you can't even remember what
Speaker 1: it was like before you didn't know them, and you
Speaker 1: can't remember what life was like without them. Um that
Speaker 1: to me because it's with my wife's with my kids,
Speaker 1: that's the I can understand it. It's like it's so uh,
Speaker 1: it puts your tilt, it tilts your access, and then
Speaker 1: you're never back in a good way and it must
Speaker 1: be a boy. But um, yeah, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that even like answers the question. But that's the best
Speaker 1: way I can understand it because I'm always like I
Speaker 1: can't even remember what I was like before I met here.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what life felt like, you know, and
Speaker 1: now it's like now we have kids, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have kids, but that does that does
Speaker 1: it to you too, where you're just like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: I would like literally run through a wall or run
Speaker 1: through in a burning house for you. And I never
Speaker 1: felt that towards anything besides my wife before, and now
Speaker 1: it's your kids more even more innocent. So that was
Speaker 1: a beautiful, articulate response to a really unfair question that
Speaker 1: I sprung on you. So I thank you for that. Well,
Speaker 1: it's from our video, so I should have thought about it. Well.
Speaker 1: My my last question, speaking of connecting to people, what
Speaker 1: is next for you guys? I know, obviously it's tough
Speaker 1: to say given everything that's going on with with COVID,
Speaker 1: but you plans to hit the road again in the
Speaker 1: in the relatively near future. Yeah, we say, COVID willing
Speaker 1: will be on the road. Um for the next year
Speaker 1: and a half, two years, you know, and if if,
Speaker 1: if things get rescheduled, they get rescheduled. But we're just
Speaker 1: proceeding like we'll we'll take what we can get, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like we just want to be back out there,
Speaker 1: and so, um, we'll be starting in early early January
Speaker 1: and then onward. And I think I think the way
Speaker 1: things are moving there is a there's a cautious optimism
Speaker 1: about being out there and it feeling once again safe hopefully. Um,
Speaker 1: but we've been sitting around long enough. I think we're
Speaker 1: ready to get out there. And we we got to
Speaker 1: play a few shows last year at the end of
Speaker 1: the year and that was like, you know, so uplifting.
Speaker 1: So I truly can't wait, and it's worth it, even
Speaker 1: if we have to be in a bubble half the
Speaker 1: time to just be able to go do this. We
Speaker 1: forgot how fun it was in a way because we
Speaker 1: were touring so much that you kind of burn yourself out.
Speaker 1: And so it's good to be back feeling like desiring
Speaker 1: that nothing but that you like, I really want to
Speaker 1: do this, you know. It really feeds us. So um,
Speaker 1: we're excited and like I said, a lot of this
Speaker 1: is up to other forces outside of ourselves, you know.
Speaker 1: So we're just we're just kind of like proceeding. Is
Speaker 1: it cautiously optimistic? The motto of two so far? But
Speaker 1: I hope to get you out there soon. Oh Man, Leslie,
Speaker 1: thank you so much free music and your time today.
Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, Man, appreciate it. Thanks so much. We hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio, a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of Inside the
Speaker 1: Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite podcast. Yeah is t