Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to it Could Happen Here podcast about
Speaker 2: things falling apart and people putting them back together. I
Speaker 2: am back after after a lengthy court battle, have been
Speaker 2: allowed to return to the podcast, which I'm very grateful for.
Speaker 2: And I'm joined today by John and Haval, two friends
Speaker 2: of mine who volunteer out here in Cucumber a lot,
Speaker 2: a lot more than I do. And we're going to
Speaker 2: explain some developments that have happened, give you all an
Speaker 2: update on the situation here and let you know how
Speaker 2: you could help. So welcome to the show, both of you.
Speaker 3: Hello, thank you going to be back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome back. If you'd like to just introduce yourself,
Speaker 2: like your name, like whatever role you play out here, pronouns,
Speaker 2: and any affiliation with any organization you feel is relevant.
Speaker 4: So my name is John. I'm someone that lives in
Speaker 4: the area. This situation just kind of showed up in
Speaker 4: my backyard. I was kind of forced into it rather
Speaker 4: than volunteer into it, and I've been dealing with it
Speaker 4: NonStop since the beginning. Yeah, I'm one of the main
Speaker 4: sets of booths on the ground.
Speaker 3: Have all I used them pronouns and I organized with
Speaker 3: direct Action Drumline and Zene Distro doing a lot of
Speaker 3: mutual aid, which is how I got involved in all this,
Speaker 3: and also with Alocholato helping out on the ground since
Speaker 3: the beginning with John, pretty much just a little after
Speaker 3: John started.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that's what nearly six months, so if
Speaker 2: you're not counting me, yeah, yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah. It started in May and then it stopped
Speaker 4: during the summertime. It picked up again in September, and
Speaker 4: we've been dealing with it NonStop since then.
Speaker 2: People will have heard briefly from John's father Sam in
Speaker 2: in our May episodes about title forty two, which we did. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it seems like forever ago. It also doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: very long ago. It's just one big, weird collapsing of time.
Speaker 2: So last time we spent last time with HAVAL, we
Speaker 2: had this situation where we had three distinct concrete camps
Speaker 2: right adjacent to gaps in the wall, which volunteers were
Speaker 2: servicing with food, water, warm blankets, were building shelters, and
Speaker 2: we've heard a lot about those camps. Does one of
Speaker 2: you guys want to explain how things have changed since then,
Speaker 2: and really particularly in the last six weeks.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's changed quite radically. Actually, So between the
Speaker 4: months of September and December, we were servicing these three
Speaker 4: camps kind of more or less in our immediate area.
Speaker 4: It was pretty straightforward. Our routine would consist of stopping
Speaker 4: at each camp two times a day and feeding people,
Speaker 4: providing them with all of the different things that the
Speaker 4: US government was not and I kind of wish things
Speaker 4: were simpler like they were back then. Yeah, So at
Speaker 4: the end of the month of December, Secretary Blinken made
Speaker 4: a visit to Mexico, and I suspect that he pressured
Speaker 4: the Mexican government to police our border for US. One
Speaker 4: of the immediate changes that we saw as a result
Speaker 4: of that was the foundation of two Mexican National Guard
Speaker 4: camps at two of the gaps that feed into those
Speaker 4: camps in our area, and that has basically stopped any
Speaker 4: people coming through those areas. This has not made any
Speaker 4: less people come into the country. Actually, the numbers have
Speaker 4: been fairly consistent. It's just that people have been forced
Speaker 4: to go in through other areas. So there have been
Speaker 4: many many new oads that have popped up west of US.
Speaker 4: We have to drive quite a bit further towards San
Speaker 4: Diego to go and service those areas, the main one
Speaker 4: being Sliders, which we're seeing about two hundred people come
Speaker 4: in sometimes in a night. It's not a good scene.
Speaker 4: Whereas those three ones that we were originally servicing had
Speaker 4: dumpsters and porta potties at the very least, Yeah.
Speaker 3: They still do.
Speaker 4: They still.
Speaker 2: Still there exactly, Yeah, moving at the speed of government.
Speaker 4: The new ones don't have that, and people are having
Speaker 4: to spend Well, how long were the people there most
Speaker 4: during that crazy, crazy time, just like a few days ago.
Speaker 4: I think they were up They were there for up
Speaker 4: to like nineteen hours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, going on a day right now. Yeah, because we
Speaker 2: first to backtrack to people, like we we heard from
Speaker 2: a member of the community that there have been people
Speaker 2: seen held there right at Sliders, And then we went
Speaker 2: out there and we kept finding like warm fires, like
Speaker 2: where people hopefully been there and built fires. We could
Speaker 2: see where people have scavenged to brush, and a.
Speaker 3: Lot of documents ripped up around there, the Mill Hill signs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all these signs, and so we were able
Speaker 2: to use that to suppose that that was a place
Speaker 2: where people were and then I guess was it. Eventually
Speaker 2: someone stayed the night there, and that was what we
Speaker 2: bumped into people there. Someone bumped into people there.
Speaker 4: Well, we have an acquaintance that's been very helpful towards
Speaker 4: the cause that lives just close by to there, and
Speaker 4: he's kind of one of the one that sounded the alarm.
Speaker 2: And from there, it's like you said, it's a lot
Speaker 2: more difficult, right, Like it's probably a thirty minute drive.
Speaker 2: It's a steep off road, so like when it rains,
Speaker 2: it's hard to get to. So that makes it more
Speaker 2: difficult for us to provide stuff for people there. And like,
Speaker 2: I guess people should realize that we didn't find out
Speaker 2: about this because Border Patrol called us and said like, hey,
Speaker 2: there are people here without food, water show they don't
Speaker 2: do that, but yeah, that's not the thing that they do.
Speaker 3: We actually did one another volunteer, Brendan and I were
Speaker 3: driving out and we stopped on the road. I don't
Speaker 3: think you were with us, John, but we started talking
Speaker 3: to one of the agents because there was two or
Speaker 3: a group of people from I think Egypt. That was
Speaker 3: the day everyone did the mass exodus from one seven seven.
Speaker 3: So we stopped and we're talking to one of the
Speaker 3: agents and he did slip that there was another camp.
Speaker 3: He didn't name it, didn't say where it was, he
Speaker 3: just said it was that way. And that was around
Speaker 3: the same time that Morgan had mentioned it to us.
Speaker 3: So it's you know, we kind of pulled it out
Speaker 3: of this agent because we were talking very nonchalantly with
Speaker 3: him and he was being generally nice. But yeah, they
Speaker 3: don't tell us about this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have to find him myself. And what
Speaker 2: I think that brings up is that there are potentially.
Speaker 4: More, right we think, we know for a fact there are.
Speaker 2: We know that there are more. And like I think
Speaker 2: it's obviously people and people think of California and they
Speaker 2: think of LA and they think of San Diego and
Speaker 2: they think of the beach and like pleasant weather. But
Speaker 2: can you explain, like it's been really cold out here.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty miserable right with the wet weather we've been having.
Speaker 4: This is a pretty unknown part of southern California. You know,
Speaker 4: we're a mountainous region just just east of San Diego,
Speaker 4: within San Diego County. It's I mean it's not it's
Speaker 4: not crazy high, it's you know, it's about on an
Speaker 4: average of three thousand and four thousand feet above sea level.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it gets very windy over here, gets very unpleasant.
Speaker 4: It often drops down to freezing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's if you're out there all night and
Speaker 2: you have any shelter and anyway to get warm, and
Speaker 2: you're potentially wet from crossing a river or crossing a
Speaker 2: stream that often pops up in the desert, can be
Speaker 2: a really miserable situation. So, like, it's important that these
Speaker 2: people receive help. And right now it's just through word
Speaker 2: of mouth and the local community that we're able to
Speaker 2: find them right and give them the help.
Speaker 4: Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So going forward, like we've seen like this movement of
Speaker 2: migration west, what does that mean for the ability of
Speaker 2: volunteers to provide services to migrants and what does it
Speaker 2: mean for the safety Like you said that the push
Speaker 2: factors haven't changed, right, So people are still coming here.
Speaker 2: They still have things to get away from that lead
Speaker 2: them to come here, but they're not coming the same
Speaker 2: way where we could so easily help them in these
Speaker 2: three concrete sites.
Speaker 4: So like what does that mean, Well, it's takes a
Speaker 4: lot more time out of our day just to drive there.
Speaker 4: For one, the main one sliders is up a very
Speaker 4: shitty road.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I think they call it sliders because it's so
Speaker 3: muddy and slidy over there when you're trying to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I put someone's head into the roof of my trucks.
Speaker 2: That's so long ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And uh, you know, we're not the only ones
Speaker 4: that are displeased with this. It's more it makes the
Speaker 4: life for the border patrol more difficult, makes life for
Speaker 4: the emergency medical services more difficult, and of course it
Speaker 4: makes life for the migrants more miserable. And the owner
Speaker 4: of the property and the owners of the property in
Speaker 4: which they're hosting these you know, detaining these migrants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if every single one has been on
Speaker 2: private property so far, right, and I think we spoke
Speaker 2: to most of the property owners at this point, and
Speaker 2: it just seems to come out of the blue at them.
Speaker 2: It's very strange.
Speaker 4: Permission has never sought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I know one of them is
Speaker 2: suing the Border Patrol for it, but fake months. But
Speaker 2: obviously it does have an impact on a landscape as well.
Speaker 2: People understand to be a coal so they're cutting down
Speaker 2: whatever they can to burn to make shelter, to make
Speaker 2: their experience a little bit less miserable.
Speaker 4: So that's the Yeah, that's that's kind of a bargaining
Speaker 4: tool that we try and use when trying to convince
Speaker 4: the property owners to allow us to build shelters over there.
Speaker 4: It's just to try and convince them that it'll be
Speaker 4: good for them to have migrants not be in a
Speaker 4: position to be forced to have to cut down the
Speaker 4: vegetation on their land and trash their land, and you know,
Speaker 4: by allowing us to build shelters on their property and
Speaker 4: give firewood to the to the to the migrants that
Speaker 4: are being held on their property, it's better for them
Speaker 4: in the long run. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the first time we went out there, they had
Speaker 3: created these shelters by just ripping brush and creating these
Speaker 3: like semi circles that were maybe about a.
Speaker 4: Foot or some of them are very impressive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, two three feet high and it was nice,
Speaker 3: you know, and enclosed, so they had some sort of shelter.
Speaker 3: But yeah, they had to rip all that from the
Speaker 3: vegetation around the area, which just ruined the ecosystem there,
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it must tear up your hands as well, lost
Speaker 2: of thlny bushes and stuff. Yeah, it's it's not desirable
Speaker 2: for anyone talking of things aren't desirable. We unfortunately have
Speaker 2: to take an advertising break, so we will do that.
Speaker 2: Hit some stuff that you don't need. All right, we're back.
Speaker 2: Those are some products and services. Now we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about the way John being very local to hocumber right,
Speaker 2: how it is like organizing in a rural community, and
Speaker 2: the way that obviously you have people of very disparate
Speaker 2: political leanings in the area, and like how you've managed
Speaker 2: to like phrase what we're doing and to organize in
Speaker 2: such a way that the very least people aren't like
Speaker 2: actively pissed off at you.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, first of all, I'm a Quaker, come from
Speaker 4: a Quaker family, and first and foremost I am doing
Speaker 4: this for religious reasons, and I like to try and
Speaker 4: remind people of that. So when people try and come
Speaker 4: at me with high immigrants sentiment, I just try and
Speaker 4: remind them that you know, this is this is basically
Speaker 4: what you're supposed to do according to the Bible. And
Speaker 4: you know, to hate on any of these people is
Speaker 4: very Unchristian. And when I do so, it's very hard
Speaker 4: for them to come at me with any of that stuff.
Speaker 4: But still, yes, For the most part, the community over
Speaker 4: here have not been very helpful towards this. They have
Speaker 4: not been very enthused with all these migrants coming in,
Speaker 4: and you know, they've been very regrettably misinformed about it all.
Speaker 4: They're still looking at various crazy sources for their news,
Speaker 4: like YouTube channels and stuff like that, and it's kind
Speaker 4: of kind of hard to believe. It's like, you guys
Speaker 4: live in the area. You can just drive straight out there.
Speaker 4: You can talk to me a person that you guys know,
Speaker 4: Yet you still choose to look up all these various
Speaker 4: whack jobs on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we've had something of a problem with the
Speaker 2: YouTube people. Right, there's a whole info, wholely ecosystem of
Speaker 2: right wing you tubers that I think probably most folks
Speaker 2: don't know about, even if you take an interest in
Speaker 2: other like right wing conspiracy stuff, as a whole ecosystem
Speaker 2: of right wing border YouTubers who have been I mean,
Speaker 2: describe what you've seen, right, We've had like a new
Speaker 2: right wing fascist out every day.
Speaker 3: It seems there's Oreo Express, Anthony Aguero has been out here,
Speaker 3: JLR Investigation JLR.
Speaker 4: Roger Ogden was out here the other day. Classic it's
Speaker 4: kind of calmed down though in the last last couple
Speaker 4: of days. But there was a period in late February
Speaker 4: where it seemed like they were coming out every single day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a different guy in a different lifted jeep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, just after that whole border what was it.
Speaker 2: That take back our Border?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got them all rouled up to come out.
Speaker 4: Actually, what really set them off to be aware of
Speaker 4: all of this is when Fox did their big piece
Speaker 4: out here and they were out here for multiple days. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's what kind of like turned on the tap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's very common anyway you go on the border, right,
Speaker 2: Like Fox has a border report to Bill Malugan. People
Speaker 2: will be familiar with Bill Malugan from publishing a story
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty which suggested the police officer had a
Speaker 2: tampon used tampon put in his Starbucks coffee, which was
Speaker 2: demonstrably false and didn't really very much look like a tampon.
Speaker 2: You can google more about that if that's interesting to you.
Speaker 2: But like someone who preps should have lost their journalistic
Speaker 2: credibility at that point. It's now doing border reporting for Fox.
Speaker 2: And this is like when I speak to people all
Speaker 2: along the border right here, Arizona, Texas. Yeah, the stuff
Speaker 2: that Fox puts out very strongly correlates with anti migrant sentiment,
Speaker 2: both both locally and with like these these folks coming
Speaker 2: in and streaming, and they're always asking for donations, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's not a then they're they're not like advert
Speaker 2: funded or like publicly funded like that, they're funded by
Speaker 2: donations for what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I forget the channel there Aguero is on,
Speaker 3: but he's constantly asking for the nations and like, oh,
Speaker 3: thank you, you just dropped ten dollars, thank you for
Speaker 3: the five spot the other like they're sitting in his car.
Speaker 4: That's that's what their grift. That's what they're out there for.
Speaker 4: Every It seems like a third of their broadcast time
Speaker 4: is spent asking for donations.
Speaker 2: Right yeah. Yeah, it's like a like a charity stream,
Speaker 2: except it's the opposite of charity, I guess exactly, so
Speaker 2: pay me to do hateful things streams. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think like that as we get as we look between
Speaker 2: now and November, I think it's really important that like
Speaker 2: the border will be a topic that people who never
Speaker 2: come to the border will argue about constantly between now
Speaker 2: and November, right, Fox News will have reporting on it,
Speaker 2: NBC will have reporting on it, like and both of
Speaker 2: them will have reporting that isn't anchored on what we
Speaker 2: see every single day out here, which is a whate
Speaker 2: variety of people from all over the world who are
Speaker 2: having a very difficult time right here and need a help, right,
Speaker 2: and we're doing what we can to help them. So
Speaker 2: I guess what, Like people who are listening to this
Speaker 2: will in the next I don't know how long it
Speaker 2: is to a November, what six months, they'll have conversations
Speaker 2: with their family members, with their friends, with people in bars, whatever,
Speaker 2: regarding the border. What do you think they should know about,
Speaker 2: like what we're seeing and like what because there's this
Speaker 2: whole border invasion narrative, right, and like, this is not
Speaker 2: an invasion. We were just out joking with some people
Speaker 2: and helping them get the firewood prepped. Like these people
Speaker 2: are not a threat.
Speaker 4: I think people often make the mistake of considering this
Speaker 4: issue to be a political issue. It really is just
Speaker 4: a humanitarian issue. Vast majority of the people that I've
Speaker 4: talked to have very legitimate reasons for needing to come
Speaker 4: into this country, whether they're from Ecuador, you know, you
Speaker 4: know the situation over there recently there were gangsters that
Speaker 4: took over a TV station right Or in Guatemala, where
Speaker 4: I spoke to a man who told me that his
Speaker 4: children with college degrees can make enough family money to
Speaker 4: feed their families. Or even in Afghanistan where people have
Speaker 4: literally had the talib and threaten their families' lives.
Speaker 3: The same with and the Iatola escaping, all.
Speaker 4: The Kurdish people in Turkey. I mean, the list goes on,
Speaker 4: or you know, climate refugees like the Mauritanians that we
Speaker 4: just spoke with earlier. Yes, they're they're coming, and they
Speaker 4: have really reasonable grounds for asylum over here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it wouldn't be such an quote unquote invasion
Speaker 3: if they were just allowed to walk through the port
Speaker 3: of entry. This it's this process is so silly because
Speaker 3: they cross They could just do this all at the
Speaker 3: port of entry. They really could be safe. The policies
Speaker 3: just choose not to do this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's the part that really doesn't make sense,
Speaker 4: is like we're letting them in anyways, Why do we
Speaker 4: need to make their lives so uncomfortable you know and dangerous?
Speaker 3: Right? Dangerous?
Speaker 2: I mean, John, you and I were on a water
Speaker 2: drop maybe two months ago, now six weeks ago in
Speaker 2: slightly west of here, right, do you remember we were
Speaker 2: driving down to where we're going to get off and
Speaker 2: we met that family from Guinea. There was like do
Speaker 2: you and you want to just describe what you saw
Speaker 2: because I think it was like, at least for me,
Speaker 2: there was like I've seen it a lot, but it
Speaker 2: still emotionally affected me.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, there was a there was a Guinean woman
Speaker 4: and her kid. I think he might have been like
Speaker 4: what four or something three? Three? Yeah, and uh, and
Speaker 4: there was also a Nigerian woman and you know, Nigerian
Speaker 4: speak English and Guineans speak French. They weren't really able
Speaker 4: to communicate with one another, and yet they were still
Speaker 4: traveling side by side because they they just teamed up
Speaker 4: because they were in a desperate situation together. One of
Speaker 4: them was was she and sandals.
Speaker 2: One of them didn't have shoes tois didn't.
Speaker 4: Have shoes at all. Right, Yeah, yeah, it's six weeks
Speaker 4: is a long time, you know what you're doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you see horrible things every day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been a very eventful time. Yeah, every day
Speaker 4: feels like a news story. Yeah, and they just kind
Speaker 4: of sat on the side of the road and were
Speaker 4: out of breath, and they were just basically asking us
Speaker 4: to help them. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember the little girl because we were obviously concerned
Speaker 2: with the lady who didn't have shoes and trying to
Speaker 2: help like bandage her feet and stuff. But then I
Speaker 2: remember the little girl just wasn't saying anything, and I
Speaker 2: suddenly realized, oh, this little girl is probably very cold.
Speaker 2: She was like, you know, early, like mildly hypothermic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I had her wrapped up in a little mylaud
Speaker 2: blanket with me to warm her up. And it's just,
Speaker 2: I know it just for one reason or another, that
Speaker 2: was a moment where I was like, why on earth
Speaker 2: are we doing this to a three year old? Like
Speaker 2: what possible reason could there be this three year old
Speaker 2: girl to have hypothermia here in like the richest country
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 4: Who could possibly agree that this is a good thing?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Or another experience I had in the beginning of
Speaker 4: February where there was this Colombian man who was in
Speaker 4: tears who approached me and told me that his daughter
Speaker 4: was very very ill, and he dragged me over to
Speaker 4: a porta potty and she was there bundled up with
Speaker 4: like nine blankets or something, not really responding to my questions.
Speaker 4: He was trying to contact nine to one one, but
Speaker 4: the responder on a nine to one one or the
Speaker 4: dispatcher didn't speak Spanish, so I had to communicate with
Speaker 4: them and navigate the whole situation. Turns out she did
Speaker 4: have hypothermia. Yeah, but the ambulance would not take him
Speaker 4: along with the mother and the child to the hospital.
Speaker 4: So again it's another case of family separation. Who knows
Speaker 4: what might have happened. They would have gotten processed separately.
Speaker 4: He could have ended up in Louisiana and she could
Speaker 4: have ended up in Riverside or somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And at that point, once again, it's not the
Speaker 2: government or your taxes that will pay for those people
Speaker 2: to be reunified. Right, that's work that's done by NGOs
Speaker 2: and moderntary organizations exactly. Yeah, despite the massive amount of
Speaker 2: money we spend on And we were just talking the
Speaker 2: other day about how the architectural marvel of sections of
Speaker 2: the border wall right where they've poured concrete at like
Speaker 2: a forty five plus degree angle and spent millions of
Speaker 2: dollars for every yard that and we don't have enough
Speaker 2: money to give this three year ogue out a blanket
Speaker 2: or to get that family back together.
Speaker 4: It's pathetic, it's it's yeah, it's mind boggling. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Even today with that dude from Brazil. He came up
Speaker 3: to me when we first got here there was starving,
Speaker 3: wanted food, water, and he was like, I'm sick, I
Speaker 3: have a fever. So I hooked him up with some
Speaker 3: cold medicine that we had in our medkit, and then
Speaker 3: later when we went back to do the second round
Speaker 3: of feeding, he got more food and he was like,
Speaker 3: thank you so much. We're starving. We were told to
Speaker 3: when we were dropped off to wait in the mountains
Speaker 3: at six pm to six am, so they were just
Speaker 3: hadn't really I don't know if they were on the
Speaker 3: American side yet or how that worked. Didn't really describe it,
Speaker 3: but had to wait in the mountains before crossing, and
Speaker 3: so people are getting sick out there. We ran into
Speaker 3: that dude with the dog bite at at one seven seven.
Speaker 3: He was just so we always go check this one
Speaker 3: camp because there hasn't been out since Squaddi and Snal
Speaker 3: have put their camp on the other side. There hadn't
Speaker 3: been a whole lot of people crossing in this area,
Speaker 3: but we go check it periodically. In one morning, yeah,
Speaker 3: we saw this man hobbling up towards us as we're
Speaker 3: driving down the road with a stick, and we're like,
Speaker 3: why is he walking like this? Pulled over and he
Speaker 3: was bitten by a dog. He said he went to
Speaker 3: take a drink of water and some dogs attacked him
Speaker 3: to dogs, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd described it to the wolf, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we called the MS and they picked them
Speaker 3: up and took them to the hospitals.
Speaker 2: Right, but you hadn't been there. It's a long way
Speaker 2: to walk with a dog bite in your leg.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And who knows bordevitom n even even if ems
Speaker 3: him out. They might have just tried to process them
Speaker 3: with the dog bite. Yeah, could get it, could have
Speaker 3: gotten infected.
Speaker 2: Yah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But just to go back on the mutual aid question
Speaker 4: that you had earlier, it hasn't all been negative. It's
Speaker 4: actually been a really great experience in which I've met
Speaker 4: really great people from all kinds of walks of life
Speaker 4: who have just joined together because they see a problem
Speaker 4: and know that they're the only they're the only ones
Speaker 4: that can make a difference, and it is a sure
Speaker 4: easy way to be really important and make a difference
Speaker 4: in other people's lives. We don't really need to have
Speaker 4: much more than a good heart and a willingness to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I think we should talk about that more
Speaker 2: because not that some of us had some like prior
Speaker 2: life experience right working with refugees or migration, But I
Speaker 2: think most of us just were people who were like, Yeah,
Speaker 2: this isn't right, and I am able to help, and
Speaker 2: so I'm going to help. So can you talk about
Speaker 2: like how people can help? And then, like you said,
Speaker 2: I think I've actually got a lot out of this
Speaker 2: and that I feel more affirmed in my belief that
Speaker 2: like we can look out after each other without the
Speaker 2: need to control each other, and like we don't necessarily
Speaker 2: need people with guns and badges to create a society
Speaker 2: that cares for people who need taken care of. And
Speaker 2: so perhaps you could describe like how people can help,
Speaker 2: and then what it is that you've got out of
Speaker 2: this that keeps you wanting to do this.
Speaker 4: Well, First of all, yeah, we don't have a clear
Speaker 4: structure of authoritative structure over here. We take ideas as
Speaker 4: a collective. Different people have contributed different things. There's a
Speaker 4: woman that really nailed down the PB and J making
Speaker 4: system and we've all just been following her lead. There.
Speaker 4: Some people came up with the idea of having a
Speaker 4: cell phone charging station that was you, and it's just
Speaker 4: the list goes on and if you wanted to help,
Speaker 4: you could just come by to the border, come to
Speaker 4: one of these sites and just start distributing food or
Speaker 4: teaming up with us somehow, or by donating to the GoFundMe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the good fund me?
Speaker 4: John, So let's go fund me that was set up
Speaker 4: by by my dad. I don't actually know what it's Cumba.
Speaker 2: Migrant Aid, So go fund me. Ha, Cumba Migrant Aid.
Speaker 2: It comes up.
Speaker 3: Samuel Schultz I think is Samuel Schultz.
Speaker 2: So you'll know because it has like fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: on it and like maybe seven woods as a discription
Speaker 2: GOOGLEMA because not much else is going down here, I guess.
Speaker 2: But yeah, people can help that way, and we've had
Speaker 2: people come who listen. We had two people this morning
Speaker 2: right who'd heard about it on the podcast and come
Speaker 2: and helped. Yeah, and made a really really great difference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they camped out at the Sliders and really held
Speaker 3: it down, which is really important. I mean for some
Speaker 3: of us, we you know, like John and I, we
Speaker 3: kind of do like a morning shift where we get
Speaker 3: up really early and make sure to do everything that
Speaker 3: we need to do, prepping sandwiches, checking on all the camps.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people come in in the middle
Speaker 3: of the night. Sliders had people come in what at
Speaker 3: midnight or one am?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, all throughout. A group came at midnight, a
Speaker 4: group came at like one am, and then there were
Speaker 4: also more that came at four am.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like having someone on site camping, you know,
Speaker 3: making sure that people's needs are met and that if
Speaker 3: any emergencies take place, that they're taken care of, and
Speaker 3: it's just that smiling face when they get here. It
Speaker 3: makes a huge difference. Like that dude from Brazil, like
Speaker 3: earlier he was saying to me, he was like, thank
Speaker 3: you so much, Like this is like this is humanity
Speaker 3: right here, Like I'm a human and I'm like, yes,
Speaker 3: we will treat you like yumans here.
Speaker 4: Like at the end of the day, you know, these
Speaker 4: people coming through Central America and Mexico, they go through
Speaker 4: so much, you know, extortion, people, ripping them off, just
Speaker 4: feeling unwelcome throughout that whole voyage. Just having a group
Speaker 4: of people welcome them into the country and treat them
Speaker 4: with dignity is worth more than any bottle of water
Speaker 4: sandwich that we can give them. And you know, that's
Speaker 4: that's the main thing that we're doing. I would say, I.
Speaker 2: Want to emphasize that people can help in so many
Speaker 2: ways that you can send us stuff, you can send
Speaker 2: us money, or you can just show up. If you
Speaker 2: just have a weekend, that's totally fine, or a day,
Speaker 2: it's totally fine, or if you just want to come
Speaker 2: and make sandwiches, that's totally fine.
Speaker 4: Like it.
Speaker 2: We're a very diverse group of people, and some people
Speaker 2: have had more time than others. But yeah, everyone I
Speaker 2: think is valued, and like you said, I think like
Speaker 2: we're the way that we organize without anyone, like we
Speaker 2: organized horizontally, has allowed us to be so much better.
Speaker 2: Like could you remember the day there was a day
Speaker 2: when we ran out of plates and we were we
Speaker 2: were like down in Willow and it was just.
Speaker 3: It was like chaos.
Speaker 2: And then someone who just arrived that day was like, oh,
Speaker 2: what if we put the beans in a sandwich bag
Speaker 2: and give people that was actually Peter, who's back now
Speaker 2: after going on Rumptinger for a while. But yeah, like
Speaker 2: if we had been like, no, I'm in charge, We've
Speaker 2: been doing this for longer, then those people wouldn't have
Speaker 2: got fed, right, But because we were like willing to listen,
Speaker 2: then the people got fed, And like we were all
Speaker 2: happier because the people got fed, right, Like, it worked
Speaker 2: better that way, So like as things change, because it
Speaker 2: like it border patrol have said explicitly that they're trying
Speaker 2: to push people west, right, what do you think, like,
Speaker 2: what do we need going forward? What do you see
Speaker 2: like the situation being and like it it would be
Speaker 2: good to explain the context of like the changing seasons
Speaker 2: here as well.
Speaker 4: Yes, so I think what we're going to see more
Speaker 4: of is people that are crossing in unorthodox areas, more
Speaker 4: people that are hopping the fence, more people that are
Speaker 4: cutting holes in the walls, just popping up all over
Speaker 4: the place. So yeah, it would be great to have
Speaker 4: eyes along the border, people that are willing to travel
Speaker 4: up and down along the border to find out where
Speaker 4: these people are coming through, because for the most part.
Speaker 4: We don't know a lot. Oftentimes where these people are
Speaker 4: coming through. There are a couple of new oads open
Speaker 4: air detention sites that are relatively close to us that
Speaker 4: we can't find even.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, like maybe if we had a super fancy
Speaker 2: drone we could find them, or just boots on the ground, a.
Speaker 3: Nice off road vehicle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, then these are all things that cost
Speaker 2: money that we don't have. But like we've all put
Speaker 2: lots of miles on our trucks and lots of miles
Speaker 2: on our boots to trying to help out.
Speaker 3: My exhaust is falling off all these bumps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my transfer case to competing. But like, yeah, if
Speaker 2: we had more people, some of us could focus on
Speaker 2: feeding people here because there was how many people were
Speaker 2: there when we just left, now, one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh no, actually probably more if you count the
Speaker 4: new group. I think you know what a conservative estimate
Speaker 4: would have been maybe one hundred and forty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's we'd made one hundred and forty sandwiches
Speaker 2: to feed them today, and we'd chopped firewood and taken
Speaker 2: that out, and we'd be given all that out right.
Speaker 2: That was after the same thing at breakfast time that
Speaker 2: doesn't need much time to go meander along the border
Speaker 2: and look for another site. So if we have more people,
Speaker 2: we could do that and that would be really valuable.
Speaker 3: Also, if you have connection to firewood, yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: if you're a person who can bring us a lot
Speaker 3: of firewood. We have one homie right now and he's
Speaker 3: breaking his back wood for us. So yeah, that's a
Speaker 3: definite big need out here.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Is there other stuff like that that people who maybe
Speaker 2: aren't here but have connections to or they could they
Speaker 2: could send that's particularly needed.
Speaker 3: A nice off road vehicle I got one lying around.
Speaker 4: Firewood is definitely a big thing. That's that's a huge need. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Really cold up here, and especially in like sliders too.
Speaker 3: I think it's higher in elevation.
Speaker 2: So exposed to there's nothing between you and the wind. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's very cold out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But and and just other things that are that
Speaker 4: are easier for us to get, but we just constantly need,
Speaker 4: such as breads, blankets, bread.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, tents, all these things. Right. The wind
Speaker 2: and the sun destroys everything that we've stokepiled after a while,
Speaker 2: and we have to keep reinventing the wheel. And then
Speaker 2: sometimes border patrol destroys our stuff as well, or sometimes
Speaker 2: some chubs come and destroy our stuff, which which.
Speaker 3: Oh the chuds destroying our stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should talk about the destruction of the shelters
Speaker 2: before we finish, I guess, just to end on a
Speaker 2: sad note. Well was happy because we built them again
Speaker 2: and the fine. So there were some shelters I think
Speaker 2: mostly they were ones that had been built. Well, they
Speaker 2: were ones that have been built volunteers and John, you
Speaker 2: saw what happened to the shelters, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we built some shelters at one of the sites,
Speaker 4: at one of the main sites. You know, it was
Speaker 4: very simple, just by having a plywood as the frame
Speaker 4: holding it up and then nailing down some tarps on
Speaker 4: it with batons. It was. It was a nice thing.
Speaker 4: It stood up to the heavy winds that we have
Speaker 4: here very well.
Speaker 2: It's incomparably better to not having a shelter.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's a it's a completely different.
Speaker 3: They're instantly use once people cross, and it's awesome to
Speaker 3: see like adults that are alone, we'll get out and
Speaker 3: force family shelters like yeah, you get it first for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and yeah, we built those. It was working out good.
Speaker 4: Then one day the Border Patrol showed up or a
Speaker 4: company that was subcontracted by them, and demolished them all
Speaker 4: using skiploaders and bulldozers and such. We showed up the
Speaker 4: following day we rebuilt all the shelters and we're really
Speaker 4: happy about it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It was kind of a big fuck you to them.
Speaker 4: You can tear down our stuff, but we'll just come
Speaker 4: back and build more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But then what was it like a three four days
Speaker 4: later or the next.
Speaker 3: Day maybe i'm not the next day, two days it
Speaker 3: was close.
Speaker 4: Yeah, some guys just showed up and they tore it
Speaker 4: all up with hammers.
Speaker 3: They are finishing a tiny little finishing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Luckily they didn't really come equipped like maybe with the.
Speaker 3: With the tools.
Speaker 4: They didn't really know what they were doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's fair to say that. But still
Speaker 2: it's it's annoying when you've put the time into building it, right,
Speaker 2: and Border Patrol didn't destroy our contractors didn't destroy the shelters. First,
Speaker 2: we were like, oh, maybe they're not using this, but
Speaker 2: there are one hundred and forty people there right now,
Speaker 2: like in the shelters that got rebuilt for a third time,
Speaker 2: so like, I guess even we do appreciate people donating,
Speaker 2: and we understand that people's resources are scarce, and like
Speaker 2: the economy is bad and the rent is too damn high,
Speaker 2: et cetera. But like every time we build up enough stuff,
Speaker 2: we have to like we're always running uphill because like
Speaker 2: stuff just gets destroyed either by the weather or by
Speaker 2: the border patrol or by volunteer Border patrol judge, Like
Speaker 2: we could, I guess desperately need your help. And like
Speaker 2: at some point the news cycle will move on from
Speaker 2: the border, and that doesn't mean that we will be
Speaker 2: able to move on from having people to help here, right,
Speaker 2: because like don't said, there were people and people always
Speaker 2: deserve to be treated with dignity. Is there anything else
Speaker 2: that you guys think that people should know about the situation?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: We wrap up.
Speaker 3: It's kind of chill.
Speaker 2: It is really nice, Like I like being here. I
Speaker 2: come here because it makes me happy, and my friends
Speaker 2: are here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like the slider's location is located in a
Speaker 3: really awesome like you can see down just past the
Speaker 3: border wall. There's like a nice little train track that
Speaker 3: used to go from us into Mexico, I guess. And
Speaker 3: just beyond that there's like sheep on a farm in
Speaker 3: the distance, like rolling hills, the clouds come through, and
Speaker 3: like say, it's a really beautiful place to be and
Speaker 3: to hang out. And a lot of the locals that
Speaker 3: don't hate what we're doing are very nice. The people
Speaker 3: at the hotel are very supportive.
Speaker 4: And yeah, we're a great group, really good people. It's
Speaker 4: always really fun to do anything like this. People are
Speaker 4: generally enamored by our project and want to be involved
Speaker 4: and come back a second time. I mean we're kind
Speaker 4: of like cowboys. I mean, we're doing this all on
Speaker 4: our own. We're driving up and down, looking at the sites,
Speaker 4: looking around, and that whole responsibility is on our shoulders.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels good to take responsibility.
Speaker 4: It definitely does.
Speaker 3: We're doing this.
Speaker 2: It's like no one else will, so yeah, just do it.
Speaker 2: Like that's fine. It's very like it reminds me of
Speaker 2: the punk scene growing up, but like it's a big
Speaker 2: important thing. Get Like you said, every national news network
Speaker 2: has been down here, every drifting streamer has been down here.
Speaker 2: But the end of the day, it's a few dozen
Speaker 2: random people who are actually the ones making sure that
Speaker 2: people don't die here. For all the government attention and
Speaker 2: for all the millions, they don't have spend it, it's just.
Speaker 4: Us, Yeah, working on a fraction of the butt. I mean,
Speaker 4: it costs them more to fly a helicopter for a
Speaker 4: few hours than we've.
Speaker 2: Ever spent in our entire GOFUNDB. Yeah, and yet like
Speaker 2: we get it done. We're very efficient, I guess in
Speaker 2: that sense. But yeah, we would love more people. People
Speaker 2: have come because I listen to podcasts, and that also,
Speaker 2: like just for me personally means the world to me.
Speaker 2: Like most of the time we just talk into a
Speaker 2: microphone and then you can't really see who you're talking
Speaker 2: to unless unless you go on like social media, and
Speaker 2: that's not always the best reflection of humanity. So like
Speaker 2: it really means the world to me that someone like
Speaker 2: listens to this when they're driving to work or you know,
Speaker 2: going on a jog or whatever they're doing, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: I will I will go and I will help, because
Speaker 2: I think that is how we solve so many of
Speaker 2: our problems. Like there is a massive problem with people
Speaker 2: not being able to afford rent living on the street
Speaker 2: in this country, and we solve it in the same
Speaker 2: way by just showing up for each other.
Speaker 3: And there's also different ways to get plugged in, like
Speaker 3: if the desert's not your thing, it doesn't. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is like where the process as starts as far
Speaker 3: as like the spectrum of the whole border crisis or
Speaker 3: not crisis, but the whole border humanitarian situation we have
Speaker 3: going on here. So this is what we're doing out here.
Speaker 3: But there's also airport runs. A lot of them get
Speaker 3: ditched in the airports, so I think we all we
Speaker 3: got SD and maybe M Death and at last center
Speaker 3: kind of hold down. They do airport runs border patrol
Speaker 3: just I guess at night they don't drop them off
Speaker 3: like after ten or something. They don't drop them off
Speaker 3: at the IRIS station. They'll just drop them straight off
Speaker 3: at the airport. So they need help being fed. A
Speaker 3: lot of them don't have plane tickets. They need to
Speaker 3: kind of some you know, people need blankets because they
Speaker 3: have to sleep there. So well, I mean, we all
Speaker 3: we got is great for that you can plug in
Speaker 3: with them, and I think Alo Torolado and who else
Speaker 3: is it M Deaf as well, that's doing the Irish
Speaker 3: street releases. So when the Border Patrol just releases them
Speaker 3: on the street. Like a lot of people just get
Speaker 3: in a cab and go. They have the resources, they
Speaker 3: can do that, they're already planned. But some people don't
Speaker 3: have any money, or they got robbed on the way here,
Speaker 3: so they have nothing. They need a lot of help.
Speaker 3: They need to figure out where to go, they need
Speaker 3: a place to stay. So there's the street releases, there's
Speaker 3: the airport, there's I think that's kind of.
Speaker 4: Or or by just helping with shelters and organizations in
Speaker 4: whatever city you happen to be living in. You know,
Speaker 4: the majority of the Migroan well not the majority, but
Speaker 4: a very typical answer migrants give me when I asked
Speaker 4: them where in the United States they're going to? Is
Speaker 4: New York City or Chicago or any of these major cities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lincoln, Nebraska the other day. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be Idaho.
Speaker 4: Have fun. Yeah, it was beautiful.
Speaker 2: There was a guy Havel and I met, from a
Speaker 2: minority ethnic group in Russia. We met in September. I
Speaker 2: remember one of those first really cold nights and I
Speaker 2: was talking to this person and they were in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: and I checked in with him a few weeks ago
Speaker 2: and they're like happily living in Pennsylvania. Can't understand a
Speaker 2: word anyone else is saying. It's nice to see and yeah,
Speaker 2: you can help those people in whatever community you're in.
Speaker 2: And like, if you're further along border, there's Paha Samaritans,
Speaker 2: there's no mass worth days, there's humane Borders, two Song
Speaker 2: Samaritans as well, right, yeah, all along the border, you know,
Speaker 2: there are the there are lots of good people in Texas, right,
Speaker 2: there's a sidewalk school and Blainoso Matamoros, the people at
Speaker 2: the National Butterfly Center who are very nice people who
Speaker 2: we've heard from before. Like all along the border, and
Speaker 2: like all around this country, there there are things you
Speaker 2: can do to help. And I want to reinforce it.
Speaker 2: It's not like this penurious thing we do that's miserable
Speaker 2: and we all get together and cry every night. Like
Speaker 2: we do have a nice time, even though we have
Speaker 2: seen some really stressful things. Like we all look after
Speaker 2: one another and hold space when people do need help
Speaker 2: or extra time to process something. But it's a very
Speaker 2: supportive community and we support each other through lots of
Speaker 2: other things, like aside from this, and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people in general in the twenty first century
Speaker 2: America struggle with isolation. And that's a thing that that
Speaker 2: capitalism does to people, right, it isolates us from each other.
Speaker 2: And so hopefully, like I think this is a solution
Speaker 2: for me. This this has been a really positive thing,
Speaker 2: but like generally my sense of hope.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and like what we're doing this kind of
Speaker 3: does it's disaster humanitarian relief effort. It's kind of with
Speaker 3: the way the climate is going in the world in climate, uh,
Speaker 3: climate are going to.
Speaker 2: Get less common.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this will just be getting more common. And like
Speaker 3: this kind of like preparing and building community and like
Speaker 3: this disaster scenario is going to yeah, definitely be more
Speaker 3: in commons.
Speaker 4: And it's not that easy to do. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: not that hard to do. You know, you just got
Speaker 4: to have the intention and then you just got to
Speaker 4: get together and do it. That's all. That's all you
Speaker 4: really need to do.
Speaker 2: Don't think that it's like this. If someone had said
Speaker 2: to us, what plus or minus fifty thousand people probably
Speaker 2: have come through. I have no idea on the numbers, but.
Speaker 4: Somewhere around there, yeah, probably more than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we like I remember in May when we
Speaker 2: cleaned up the first o ads, when we were like
Speaker 2: when I first met your mum and dad, John, we
Speaker 2: were cleaning up the first o ads and were wow,
Speaker 2: that was a horrible thing that happened. That was really fucked.
Speaker 2: If someone had said, right, well, between now and next March,
Speaker 2: fifty thousand people will come through here and it's mostly
Speaker 2: going to be you guys who are here picking up trash,
Speaker 2: and that's that's what it's going to be.
Speaker 3: Like, it's on you.
Speaker 2: It would have been it would have seemed overwhelming, right,
Speaker 2: But I don't think people should feel afraid to confront
Speaker 2: these big problems because like between the group of people
Speaker 2: who we've assembled here, we've been able to confront this
Speaker 2: problem and make it survivable and treat people with dignity
Speaker 2: and bring some dignity and humanity into a situation where
Speaker 2: there wasn't any right.
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, and there's a role for everybody. No matter
Speaker 3: what you do, you can find your niche of what
Speaker 3: you know, you makes you feel good, or something that
Speaker 3: you're good at, you know. Yeah, it's finding the little
Speaker 3: fascists that destroyed our things online and doing all that
Speaker 3: online footwork, or it's building shelters, or it's making PB
Speaker 3: and J's.
Speaker 2: Or our friends made our website, they made a really
Speaker 2: good website.
Speaker 3: Website, yeah, or even yeah, just being someone that speaks
Speaker 3: multiple langs whiges is a huge need out here, especially
Speaker 3: I mean Spanish is pretty common, but the harder languages,
Speaker 3: like I mean Mandarin.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you speak Mandarin and then you reach out
Speaker 2: to us and we can call you, then that will
Speaker 2: be huge, right. That really in a medical emergency, that
Speaker 2: could be a life or death thing. So there were
Speaker 2: there were a ton of ways to help and re
Speaker 2: encourage people to got to go to the can Where
Speaker 2: can people follow along with YouTube? Do you have like
Speaker 2: social media or anything that you want to plug?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep mine priding the world such beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 3: One of the how I got involved in this is
Speaker 3: through members of a drum line that I am part of,
Speaker 3: So we show up for protests, have been since twenty
Speaker 3: twenty Direct Action drum Line on Instagram. We post a
Speaker 3: lot of different stuff from organizing for Palestine to you know,
Speaker 3: we were doing a lot of Black Lives Matter stuff
Speaker 3: early in twenty twenty and now it's you know, kind
Speaker 3: of cross mixed with border aids since I've been out here,
Speaker 3: so we occasionally will make posts so you can follow
Speaker 3: along there. Alo Gelato is a good one to follow
Speaker 3: on social media inco Paul Wellness on Instagram Borderlands Relief Collective.
Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of the people listening already follow
Speaker 3: a lot, yeah, of these people, but yeah, there's a
Speaker 3: network through all of that. And so once you start
Speaker 3: following one or the other, we all tag each other
Speaker 3: and reshare each other's stuff, so you can get involved
Speaker 3: that way and figure out what's going on. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: the is it bored? What's the website for? That's a
Speaker 3: great resource.
Speaker 2: Borderay, don't get helped io. I think if you give
Speaker 2: it a Google somewhere or somewhere around that you'll find it.
Speaker 2: It is a good website. And like, if you are
Speaker 2: facing similar issues in your community, wherever you are, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, Like, we've definitely made a lot of mistakes
Speaker 2: and we've learned a lot, and so we've tried to
Speaker 2: document the things that we've learned so that you guys
Speaker 2: don't have to reinvent the wheels somewhere else, right, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, you can be an efficient PB and Jmker.
Speaker 3: Just like us, learn Surely's technique.
Speaker 2: All right. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate
Speaker 2: your time.
Speaker 3: Aquets, Thank you, Jess.
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