WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Miyazawa Family Murders 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.360 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by Watch Retards 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.480 distributing swords. Instead, it's brought to you by Universal Pictures, 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.160 which is coming up with a new movie called The Snowman, 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:14.920 which hits the theaters on October. The Snowman is based 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.720 on the book by Joe Nezbo. It's a Norwegian book, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.320 but apparently it's in English too, and the movie is 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.040 going to be in English. And it's about a psycho 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.439 killer who murders his victims during the first snowfall of 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:29.840 every winter. Again, The Snowman opens October seen I'll expect 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.720 to see you there. It's also brought to you by 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.240 ourselves and our little get together this weekend, this weekend 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:40.800 being October fourteenth, two thousand seventeen, six thirty pm at 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.160 the Lucky Labrador Pub on killings Worth in Portland. So 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.080 again we're gonna be there, hopefully at least unless we 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.120 get in the car wreckt And we'll see you all 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:56.520 there right, So again October four Lucky lab Killingsworths, see 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:19.479 you there, Thank you well, Hey there, and welcome again 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.880 to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, of course, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:29.120 joined by Joe, and once again we have a creepy 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:34.440 story for you, creepy Halloween mystery for you, even because 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:40.200 not boo, it's week two, not week boo. Serious, Joe, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.080 I didn't mean bood a week too. I just meant boo. 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.600 I was trying to scare our listeners. Yeah, it was 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.960 a ghostly joke. I get it. I get it. Well, 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.120 this is week too, So just like last week, we're 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.280 going to bring you a creepy, scary story. What we 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.080 think is creepy and scary. Yeah creep Yeah, So there 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.000 is there is a little bit here that I'd say 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.000 maybe could qualify as a little ear warning, So use 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:10.000 your discretion. Yeah, if you have little ears, don't listen. Yeah. Okay, 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:14.000 So now that Joe's done with that, let's start this 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:20.639 week's story, which is the discussion of the Miyazawa family murders, 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.400 which you will also see in some places referred to 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.720 as the set of Gaya murders. And this is a 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:34.400 set of murders that happened in Tokyo, Japan in two thousand. Yeah, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.600 quite a while back, and we got a lot of 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.320 suggestions for this. I looked at the list and we 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:44.080 had it suggested by Ali Barry Hannah and Morgan. And 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.320 then I also want to send out a big thanks 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.440 to experts Adrian. She helped me out a lot with pronunciation, 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.800 as did Morgan because he sent me a bunch of 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.160 stuff to help out, which was phenomenal because otherwise I'd 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.440 have butchered some things we have, Margan. It also set 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:05.480 us a bunch of pictures. Yeah, yeah, to the neighborhood 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.960 and took pictures of the house and everything on site investigation. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.720 It's taken at the next expert level. So let's get 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.040 on with it, shall we. Yeah, all right, So our 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:22.000 story takes place on December two thousand, as I said before, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.760 in a place known as Setagaya, which is a ward 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:30.960 of Tokyo, Japan. It's roughly six to ten miles, or 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.120 if you convert that, it's ten to fifteen kilometers southwest 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:38.320 of Tokyo. The home of our victims is in what 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:43.800 is today known as Kami Soci Gaya Park, which is 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:49.160 a small park in a kind of suburban neighborhood. Yeah, 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:53.080 along the Sun River. Yeah. And originally this community where 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.760 this home was, it was about two homes, but there 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.360 were some changes in the neighborhood and the homes will, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.800 as you'll find out, we're being removed to expand the park, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.080 which is always so weird in such a in a 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.880 place that's so crunched for a living space as the 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.160 areas around Tokyo. I wonder I was. I was sort 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.080 of wondering about that too. I was wondering if maybe 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.760 they discovered that the houses were in a floodplain so 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:15.360 they figured out, screw it, will make it a park. 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.440 I don't know. I saw in quite a lot of 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.599 places where they're like, this is very unusual, because the 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.880 local governance was buying the homes from these people to 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.080 expand this once rather it was like a baseball diamond 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.560 and then another small green space and it just kept 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.160 expanding south along the river set and just I mean, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.480 they decided to take all the homes out. But it 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.120 is unusual, although you know, as we live in a 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:45.560 place where public parks are like a huge thing, and 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.400 I can understand why you would want more of those. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.680 Plus the river sun is the reason that we have 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.320 spirited away. So yes, true that. But what's weird about 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.440 the park too is that this the actual from because 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.800 I've gone and looked at it on the street and 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.040 actually I don't believe it or not. The actually they're 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.960 making kind of a half hearted the tip because the 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:08.120 original subdivision, there's a street that goes through it and 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.520 then parallel to the river essentially, and there's a lot 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.119 of little short streets dead ends that stub out from 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.640 that towards the river, and there are houses lining in 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.400 those little streets. Whether those stub streets are still there, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.640 think they tear those out and put grass or something 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.960 in there. Yeah, it is. It is strange that they 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.360 tore out all the homes, but then they didn't actually 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.000 follow through on the actual development of it. And you know, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.640 I always go on Google Earth, and so I looked 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.280 through the satellite images in time sequence, and you can 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.280 see the homes disappear and then really not much of 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.240 anything happened. So it's it's weird. It's like something stalled. 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.839 Maybe that well, maybe it's that last house. There's that 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.400 there's that one guy in the in the neighborhood that 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.159 just won't sell and just won't move out, and the 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.920 whole project is held up by him. But as we 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.400 will discover in our story, there is at least one 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.240 house left. But let's not get ahead ahead of ourselves here. Okay, So, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.560 as we've been talking about, there's this push to get 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.679 all the homes in that neighborhood out because they wanted 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.000 development as the park. At the time of our story, 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:18.320 from what I can tell from reporting an imagery, it 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.240 was about a dozen homes left, not all of them 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.520 were occupied. People have been selling their homes for you know, 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.640 a decent amount of money and finding new homes somewhere else, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.640 but of course they hadn't got around to bulldozing them all. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.880 So the family and question here though, the Miyazawa's, they 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.440 had been in their home for about ten years at 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.680 this point, but like all the rest of their neighbors, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.880 they were intending to sell. The reporting says that their 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.920 plan was to be out of the house by March 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.039 of two thousand one, so they were already planning to 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.560 get out sales in the process. So it wasn't as 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.159 if they were a holdout and within a couple of months. Yeah, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.280 it was just a couple of months away. I mean, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.279 I feel that's reasonable rate. I mean, you need to 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.640 buy another house, the logistics of moving all your stuff, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.239 and it sounds like they had family that lived right 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.400 next door right, correct, So probably it's a double logistics 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.760 at that point. Right. Yeah, And and we'll talk about 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.320 the house. But where their house was on as Joe 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.520 would describe it, a little stub street, there were actually 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.640 four residences side by side in a row. And so 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.440 the houses town houses, No, they were actually independent homes. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.720 They no, not all of them shared walls. They look 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.040 like townhouses, they're tall and skinny. But yeah, there was not. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:47.000 The Miazawa's house had a shared wall within itself, which 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.920 we'll talk about. But the other two on the other side, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:51.800 or two or three, they were separate. They weren't all 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.600 joined up. Okay, Okay. So the family in our story, 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:57.840 who we've talked about a little bit but we're actually 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.800 going to meet now, it's a family of four. We 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:05.200 have the parents at forty four year old Mikio Miyazawa, 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.840 his wife forty one year old Yasco. They had two children, 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.760 eight year old Nina and six six year old boy Ray. Technically, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.800 this is where we were just getting at it. Like 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.680 I said, there was a shared wall. Their home was 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.560 actually more of what we in the U S would 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.240 call a duplex. There were it was, It wasn't there 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.679 were no internal doorway between one home and the other. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:35.240 There was unique or separate front entrances to the two homes, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.559 and they shared a dividing wall here in the States, 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:43.280 yeah exactly, but but there was between the folks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.320 a lot like that as well. And this will this 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.640 will come to play later on in our story because 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.360 the folks that live next door our family and will 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:58.280 well yeah, yeah, they they are family. It was Yasco's mother, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.240 her sister, and her brother in law. So Yasco's sister 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.600 and then Yasco's brother in law were the ones that 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.520 lived in that home next door, right right, And Yasco's 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:16.360 mother yes Japanese, Yes, the elders of your family. So 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:22.079 it's traditionally. It makes total sense. Okay, I'm stumbling a 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.280 little bit here because we're about to dive into a 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.440 lot of the case and there are a lot of 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.480 details because the Japanese c s I apparently you're the 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.360 best in the world, and they gather amazing amounts of details. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.120 But that makes his story a little hard to follow 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.199 because there are so many details. And we're going to 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.720 do our best to keep this as straight as possible. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.800 But you know, if you're doing something else and you're 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.000 not paying attention, Be careful because you may miss something 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.160 and then be dropped and lost about what's going on 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.080 in this stuff. And unique about this guy too, is 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.560 he made the murderer, made no attempt at my giving 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.319 anything way by the same murderer. No, no, we've already 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.199 said it's the family murder, so no, no playing there. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.240 He made no attempt to cover his tracks whatsoever. It 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.480 seems like he left a huge amount of evidence, physical 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.440 evidence behind somehow and somehow we don't know who he is. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.760 And still, yeah, it's funny. But if you're driving or 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.000 you know, I know a lot of you guys like 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.480 listen while you work. I listen to you know stuff 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:20.880 while I work. You prepared to hit the back button, Yeah, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.439 to rewind a little bit, especially if you fall asleep 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.840 to Joe's soothing voice. You say, that's going to be 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:31.319 mostly Steve talking. My voice is not soothing. It's got 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.760 that kind of high, nasially pitched and everybody loves everybody 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:40.880 loves it. Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, let's let's talk about 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:45.559 this story. Let's there there. You will see this story 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.320 ordered in a number of different ways across the Internet. 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.680 I however, am going to start on the most important date, 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.280 which is the December two thousand. It was a dark 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.120 and stormy night. No, actually it was kind of a 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:04.720 nice day in Japan in December. No, throw him off. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.720 Japan and December is kind of like Portland. It's like 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.080 rainy and cold usually Soti December. It's you know, it's 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.439 the day before the celebration of the new Millennium in Japan, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.040 because they celebrated it between two thousand and two thousand one, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.720 unlike us here in the States, which was but for 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.520 the family, it was just another day. They were going 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.679 about their business. Uh. They went to the market for 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.480 a while. They then came home. I think they got 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.080 home at about like six thirty in the evening. Around 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.080 seven o'clock that night, Yasco called her mother next door 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.040 to see if Nina could come over, because Nina wanted 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.760 to watch a television show that had been recorded on 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.920 the on grandma's computer. So Nina goes over, watches the 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:55.840 TV show and is home by it's reported about nine 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.680 forty at night. Didn't stay later. Huh, oh, you know what, 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.240 I think she would have had to say much much 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.760 later to to avoid what's going to happen here? Yeah, 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.280 we know that that evening, Mikio, the father, he was 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.200 working on his computer, which was in the first floor 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.440 of the house. We know that he was working because 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.319 an email was received by the computer that required a 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.959 password to open. And that's you know that that leads 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.959 everybody down the path of well, it must have been 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.840 from his job, probably because Mikio he worked for a 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.839 company called Interbrand, which is a multinational branding company, really 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.120 creatively named branding company. But they are actually a creative company. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.760 I mean they actually I didn't know Interbrand, but I 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.920 didn't know this until I did all the research on this. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.760 Do you know who came up and branded the term WiFi? Them? Interbrand? 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.800 Oh my god, they changed the world. But you know, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.439 it's actually it's yeah, it's a pretty successful company to 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.040 be in multiple countries like that and have that kind 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.400 of thing happened. Call them in that has I've been 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.800 thinking about our brand. I think we need to, like, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.400 you know, make it better somehow. Okay, we should name 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.720 it WiFi WiFi the podcast. But it's also not unheard of, 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.800 I mean Japanese that that's like a very stereotypical Japanese 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:19.199 thing that like men tend to work absurdly longer, I mean, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.640 like very often they were, they have at a different 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.079 apartment in the city. They work just crazy hours. They 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.040 work themselves to death often. Um. And so the fact 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.600 that he would have been working at ten pm on 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.040 like on a holiday not surprising at all. And he 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.760 nothing that I have read indicates that he was some 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.240 high powered exam creative. I get the feeling that he 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.880 was just another cog, just a middleman who just worked 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.559 all the time, and that that is the typical thing, right, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.679 is that like the guys who are super super high up, 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.880 they don't seem to work. I mean just the same 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.400 in America, right, Like they don't seem to work that much. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.199 But the guys who are kind of at all they were, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.360 they're the ones who work themselves to death and the 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.960 ones who just go crazy. Yeah. I don't think he 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.720 was the tiniest of cox in the corporation though, because 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.400 but he wasn't. He wasn't he was not a big wig. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.199 But but if you look at their house, they lived 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.640 in the suburbs. Yeah, oh I guess that's true. Okay, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.040 well forget it. Yeah, he was in town. Yeah, so 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.920 it doesn't matter. The point here is is that Mikio 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:27.480 is working and he was alive at because assuming the 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.040 killer didn't kill him beforehand and didn't happen to like, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.920 you know, torture, now, we're pretty sure that that none 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.080 of that, Joe, We're pretty sure that the times that 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:41.600 things took. So I appreciate the excitement there, but no. Okay, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.440 So Mikio is on the first floor, he's on the computer, 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.800 his son Ray is asleep, and the second floor in 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.760 one of the bunk beds or one of the beds 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.320 in the bunk bed I don't I don't know what 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:57.160 they're correct. Burbage use for that have bunk beds too, Yeah, cool, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.000 everybody has bunk beds. It's an efficient use of space. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:05.040 It is. It's believed that Yasco and Nino we're up 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.040 in the third story bedroom, which, to be honest, that 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.320 third story bedroom really is just a converted attic space 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.960 that has a bed and a TV in it, and 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.120 it's a weird access point. But we'll talk about Yeah. Well, yeah, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.600 you climb up a ladder to get to it. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.360 So at some point after the email, so this is 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.600 where the family is is and then at some point 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.440 after that email came in a spoiler alert, somebody came 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.880 in and murdered the entire family. That's why we call 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:38.080 it a massacre. Remember I told you that the park 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:43.600 was expanding around the home, well directly behind the home. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.320 This and this is based on the police investigation. This 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.640 is how they think this might have happened. But there's 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:53.440 a rather tall chain link fence abutting the back of 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.880 the house, and what they think happened is our killer 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.760 climbed the fence, then hopped the short distance from the 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.320 fence to the home and either caught a hold of 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.400 an electrical conduit, you know, kind of one of those 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.800 bigger tubes of electrical wires it goes up the side 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400 of the house, or maybe there's an a C unit 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.720 is there as well. Might have got from one to 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.960 the other and then from there and then how how 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.920 far was his leap from the fence to the wall 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.640 of the house. Really it's maybe it's not a huge distance. 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.440 I'm not thinking about being able to I'm just thinking 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.520 about doing it without making a huge noise. Could very 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.360 you know what, I could very easily see. Let's say 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.800 it's about four foot I could see somebody's kind of 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.280 standing ish on the top pole of the chain link 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.720 fence and then slowly leaning forward with their hands forward 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.960 to then take the cushion of the impact and pull 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.720 them back and then pull themselves up. It would be possible. Plus, 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.800 there's some people listening to the TV. Stuff like that 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.360 was kind of small or stealthy. Let's say they're stealthy, 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:02.520 some ninja type. Maybe. Actually, if they if they did 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.520 get in this way, and it's kind of ninja, it 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.320 is kind of ninja. Yeah, So go Jimmy's up the 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.639 pipe across the A C unit and the second story 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.880 bathroom window was open. So where a bad guy goes 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:21.000 through that window into the second story bathroom, This is 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.440 where the story will kind of diverge and will bring 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.480 it together. But according to the official version, what happens 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.360 here is the killer comes out of the bathroom, turns, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.639 walks across the landing at the top of the second 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.879 story stairs into the bedroom where Ray is at and 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.040 smothers him six year old six year old Ray. At 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.840 some point in the process of smothering Ray must have 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.359 made some kind of strange noises, probably Ray struggling because 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:58.640 he's being smothered. Uh yeah, well, I mean at this point, 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.199 Mikio apparently must have heard something because he gets up 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.720 from the computer and he walks up to the walks 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:11.600 up the stairs, at which point he finds the killer. Now, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.000 the killer has with him a sashimi knife, which is 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:20.240 a thinner, long blade, single sided bladed knife. It sounds 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.440 like in this particular instance, it was a bamboo handled knife. Question. Yeah, 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.480 how do they know they brought the killer brought it 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.879 with them because it was in the home after the 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.760 fact and it wasn't one of their belongings. How that 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.639 I'm guessing that the family said that's not their knife. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.879 That doesn't match any of the knives that they have 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.000 in the home. Question. Yes, we're at Joe's house once 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.719 a week. We're not Joe's family. But okay, but do 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.520 you think you could say like that that's not Joe's 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.879 for reasons of plausible deniability, I never looked through Joe's 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:59.840 knife drawer. I'm just saying, in our house right, like, 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.800 we have a knife block that has a full set 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.919 of knives, and then we have a we have like 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.840 duplicates of knives that we've gone to you. You guys know, 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.760 foodb on, So like we go and buy knives, they're 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.200 like honestly once every six months. Because once the knife 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.479 that we buy, it's like five bucks this knife, right, 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.800 and it's great for six months, but it's like way 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.720 cheaper to just it's really not, you know, and I 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.200 we have a number of knives that are like that that. Frankly, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.040 I don't even I don't think anybody in this world 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.240 could say, like other than the two of us could 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.200 say that is or is not part of this collection. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:42.200 There is. But but the investigators will link that knife 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.320 to a store not far away, and it appears to 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.159 have been recently purchased. Sure, but I'm just saying, like 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.320 I understand what the market that day, maybe they bought 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.199 a new knife for their market. But the thing is 0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:00.200 also if indeed, okay, if in this version of the 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.520 beginning of our story, the killer did not bring the 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:07.960 knife with them and so smothers Ray and then Mikio 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.159 comes upstairs, well that means Mikio must have brought the 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:16.040 knife upstairs, which is a little weird. Why because he's 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.480 in the he's in his own home, and he hears 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.920 a weird noise and he has a family. Not many 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.879 normal family men come stalking up the stairs when they 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.080 hear a weird house in their family full of people, 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.520 unless they hear somebody, as Joe said, going die die. 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.960 I mean, because we don't know everybody that was a 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.240 witness to this crime is dead. Okay, I'm sorry, I 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.240 just I'm trying to do the understanding King well. And also, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.119 you don't you don't even know that he attacked Mikio 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:44.480 at the top of the stairs with a knife. He 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.680 might have just jumped him, knocked him down the stairs 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:48.679 and then got it ruin and gotten a knife and 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.680 then come back. And I thought there was blood down 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:56.159 the stairs. There's there's blood. There's bloody Okay. So now 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.200 I wanted to stipulate that he brought the NiFe. Okay, 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.160 let's for now. And he was also, by the way, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.040 it was incompetent in his choice of knife. Not a 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.639 good assassin, Okay, So bad guy, bad assassin shows up 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.480 with the Sashimi knife, which is just a bad tool. 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.680 But but he kills Ray. And according to this this narrative, 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:22.479 Mikio comes upstairs, at which point encounters the killer. The 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.639 killer then slashes at Mikio and apparently caught him several 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.160 times on the shoulders and the neck. Mikio then falls 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.560 down the stairs, and when his body is found, he's 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:37.040 dead at the bottom of the stairs. There's an alternate 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.399 version of this portion of the story, which is it 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:44.040 is possible that and this kind of goes towards maybe 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.240 what you were heading for, Devon, is that our killer 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.560 came in through the first floor or through the front door, 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.600 and chased Mikio up the stairs, apparently along the way, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.680 grabbing the knife that was in their home, and then 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.119 ols him and knocks him down the stairs. Now in 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.560 a way that to me almost makes a little more sense, 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.960 because what's weird is that if the guy came into 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.840 the house with a knife, why would he go to 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.679 the bother of smothering Ray rather than just cutting his 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.000 throat and being done with it fast. If you know 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.200 what I'm getting at here, I think that actually smothering 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.160 him makes sense. I mean, because you cover his mouth 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.240 with a pellow and everything. He can't yell out or 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.439 anything like that, and he's only six years old. He 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.879 can't really you know, fight back to any hughes degree, 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.160 I would think it would be fairly actually quieter potentially 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:41.159 than slitting us throat also leaves less evidence. Yeah, but 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:43.560 and the thing is, I don't remember anything about there 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:47.800 actually being blood on Mikio or the sheets around him, 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.719 So this version probably might what I think is probably 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.840 he's your version is probably wrong, you know. I frankly, 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.600 I am not willing to rule out the fact that 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.280 Miko came up the stairs with a knife. I I've 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.199 lived in places, and maybe this is just because I 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.520 do this podcast. I don't know, right, But no, I 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:09.600 don't always. But you know, every once in a while, 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.800 I've definitely heard sounds in my own house when my 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:17.280 significant other is not there, where I've thought I'm gonna 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.080 I'm taking that gun that we have in our bedroom, 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.159 and I'm going to go investigate what that sound is, 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.720