WEBVTT - The Chevrolet Corvair: How Safety Failed Us

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hey Eddie here, before we get started, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>you to know that you can listen to Car Show

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<v Speaker 1>ad free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. You'll also

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<v Speaker 1>get access to detours, bonus episodes of Car Show, where

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<v Speaker 1>we go for extended drives, play outtakes, and more. Fine

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Plus on the Car Show page in Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>or at pushkin dot Fm. Is a fun car for

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<v Speaker 1>fun lovers for car lovers. Corvet a most unusual car

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<v Speaker 1>for people who enjoy the unusual. A most unusual car. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen sixty Chevrolet Corvet didn't look like you're tipical

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<v Speaker 1>General Motors car of the era. Its bodywork was naked

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<v Speaker 1>of tailfins and excess chrome. It's styling was restrained. It

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<v Speaker 1>had a slim wraparound belt line and subtle body surfacing.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's just the outside. The Corvette was unusual from

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<v Speaker 1>top to bottom, from stem to stern, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>poised to put General Motors and maybe the whole American

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<v Speaker 1>car business on a more sophisticated, driver oriented path. It

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<v Speaker 1>was the vehicle GM would send into battle with the

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<v Speaker 1>European cars just starting to hit our shores in the

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<v Speaker 1>late nineteen fifties and early sixties. You know it's funny,

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<v Speaker 1>is this doesn't look like your typical American sixties car,

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<v Speaker 1>does it. There's no chrome everywhere. It's got this beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>like ridge to the side. It's almost like a modern

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<v Speaker 1>car the way you've got this little bone line and

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<v Speaker 1>the bodywork tucks under, super sophisticated for the era, real restraint.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a cool face. It looks very European. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it does not look American at all. Pretty nice size interior. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you can make out ease here in the car. The

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<v Speaker 1>Chevrolet Corvet was one of the most consequential cars of

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<v Speaker 1>all time, but maybe not for the reason you think.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't because the car was America's first real attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to beat back the imports. It wasn't even because it

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<v Speaker 1>became the target of a huge safety crusade, one we'll

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<v Speaker 1>talk about later in the episode. The Corvet was important

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<v Speaker 1>because it represents a fork in the road of human accountability.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Eddie Alterman, and I've been editing car

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<v Speaker 1>magazines since I was in short pants. This is Car Show,

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<v Speaker 1>my pod cast about why we drive what we drive.

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<v Speaker 1>The Corvet takes us to an important moment. The question

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<v Speaker 1>it posed was Kenny Carmaker trust its customers to learn

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<v Speaker 1>how to handle and maintain an unconventional automobile or must

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<v Speaker 1>it design for the lowest level of skill and involvement?

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<v Speaker 1>And what does that mean for those of us who

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<v Speaker 1>love to drive? Right? Yeah? So well this thing is

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<v Speaker 1>great love. I love enamel paint. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>old the paint it actually is. When I got it,

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<v Speaker 1>it was, I guess just been painted or something. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>in a parking lot in Encino, California, with Brian Morris

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<v Speaker 1>and his light yellow nineteen sixty three Corvet convertible. Where

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<v Speaker 1>is now? What do you want to do? Start the car?

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<v Speaker 1>Probably okay, just turn that to the ride. A vuncular,

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<v Speaker 1>self deprecating and clad in a light yellow shirt and

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<v Speaker 1>pants to match the car, Brian drove the couple hours

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<v Speaker 1>to La from Camarillo to let us drive his Corvet.

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<v Speaker 1>Brian bought this car from a family friend. He'd always

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<v Speaker 1>wanted a Corvet convertible because his fraternity brother had a

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<v Speaker 1>yellow one in nineteen sixty six. Brian is convinced the

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<v Speaker 1>car helped his friend woo his future wife and just

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<v Speaker 1>looking at it, you can see why this was the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of car a dashing ivy leaguer would use to

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<v Speaker 1>cruise Princeton at night. No, this has lovely light steering,

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<v Speaker 1>rides great. It's really kind of relaxing to drive. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say I had put a word to it. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's got enough power. I'd say, the faster you go,

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<v Speaker 1>the easier it is draft interesting. I mean, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five thousand an hour. It feels really straight, stable, easy,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're not doing any extreme maneuvers. But it's so

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<v Speaker 1>mild manner. That was lovely. This sounds great. Well, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what this is. This is a go get ice

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<v Speaker 1>cream car, sleek trim, not like those other hulking jock

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<v Speaker 1>cars the jock kids drove. This was the American car

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<v Speaker 1>for the American sophisticate, the person who smoked Nat Sherman cigarettes,

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<v Speaker 1>who read the New Yorker, who wore White Bucks, Who

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<v Speaker 1>was General Motors answer to the VW's Reyna and Alpha

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<v Speaker 1>Romeo's rapidly infiltrating America. A little context is important here.

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<v Speaker 1>Up until this point, General Motors, the parent corporation of Chevrolet,

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<v Speaker 1>was the apple of mid century America. Utterly dominant, essential

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<v Speaker 1>to our way of life. It had an apparent monopoly

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<v Speaker 1>on good ideas and seemed capable of achieving the impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>Post World War Two, GM led the industry with an

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<v Speaker 1>astonishing fifty percent share of the car market. Its mid

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<v Speaker 1>century run was the stuff of epics. GM invented the

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<v Speaker 1>automotive design department. It thought harder and better about self

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<v Speaker 1>driving cars back in nineteen fifty eight than most autonomous

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<v Speaker 1>car hucksters do today. It sent cars to the moon

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<v Speaker 1>on Apollo rockets. It built a temple to itself in Warren, Michigan,

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<v Speaker 1>designed by Aero Saarinen, the same guy who built a

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<v Speaker 1>TWA terminal at JFK and the Gateway arch in Saint Louis.

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<v Speaker 1>GM made trucks, buses, locomotives, home appliances, you name it,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course cars, sleek corvettes, extravagant Cadillac Eldorado's chrome

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<v Speaker 1>toothed Buick roadmasters. It was oz, but substantial headwinds buffeted

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<v Speaker 1>its mid century progress. This administration will continue to undertake

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<v Speaker 1>any maker dot Willard sis healthy economic recovery. At the

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<v Speaker 1>start of Eisenhower's second presidential term, a recession had many

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<v Speaker 1>car buyers reconsidering their lane filling tailfin barges. With their

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<v Speaker 1>acres of chrome, European cars like vwzmg's presented new options

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<v Speaker 1>for the sporty set or the frugally minded Jeffersonian. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty four, only about twenty thousand Americans bought small

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<v Speaker 1>European cars. Four years later that number was twenty times higher,

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<v Speaker 1>almost ten percent of the car market. Critically, the Big

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<v Speaker 1>Three had no small Sunan offerings at that time. They

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<v Speaker 1>only made them in two sizes back then large and

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<v Speaker 1>extra large. Enter the Corvee. It was what happened when

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<v Speaker 1>the mightiest car company on Earth set its mind to downsizing.

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<v Speaker 1>The Corvee would fuse the engineering ingenuity of those small

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<v Speaker 1>European cars to the comfort of a Chevrolet. Its name

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<v Speaker 1>revealed GM's intentions. Corvee would have the verve of a

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<v Speaker 1>Corvette and the solidity of a bell Air. But despite

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<v Speaker 1>the portmanteau, Corvet was unlike anything GM had made before,

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<v Speaker 1>from its engine type to its placement in the car,

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<v Speaker 1>from its suspension to the design of its bodywork. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a car to beat the Europeans at their own

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<v Speaker 1>fencing match, using European engineering techniques and sense of style

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<v Speaker 1>against them. Underneath its seductive lagdolce vit to bodywork was

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<v Speaker 1>what automotive engineers call a rear rear layout. It's very

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<v Speaker 1>rarely deployed. It means an engine in the rear of

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<v Speaker 1>the car after the rear axle, with power routed to

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<v Speaker 1>the rear wheels. It sounds odd as it's the complete

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<v Speaker 1>inverse of the front wheel drive front engine sedan norm

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<v Speaker 1>we know today, but it's a great formula for a

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<v Speaker 1>sporting machine. The original VW Beetle had this layout and

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<v Speaker 1>gifted it to the Porsche three fifty six, arguably the

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<v Speaker 1>best sports car of its day. Putting the engine in

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<v Speaker 1>the back of a rear drive car meant that the

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<v Speaker 1>majority of the mass was over the driven wheels, which

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<v Speaker 1>gave the car superb traction when accelerating, but having all

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<v Speaker 1>that mass back there demanded attention when breaking hard or

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<v Speaker 1>taking evasive action. And then there was the car's swing axele,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the earliest and most basic independent rear suspension designs,

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<v Speaker 1>which further complicated things. Unlike every car today, a swing

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<v Speaker 1>axle lacks an outboard hue joint, where each axle meets

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<v Speaker 1>the wheel hub, so as the wheels move up and down,

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<v Speaker 1>like when you take a corner hard, the hub's position

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<v Speaker 1>is fixed. It can't pivot to keep the tires alignment

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<v Speaker 1>consistent to the road. This can upset the car's balanced,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is not terribly hard to control. Lots of

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<v Speaker 1>cars from the thirties through the fifties had swing axles.

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<v Speaker 1>Back with Brian Morris in the Corvet were applying in

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<v Speaker 1>the concept. So when you're exercising the car and you're

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<v Speaker 1>unloading the rear and there's less weight on the rear,

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<v Speaker 1>and the rear of it lifts up, like if you're

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<v Speaker 1>charging into a turn really hot and you've got the

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<v Speaker 1>front end kind of planted in, the back end lifts up.

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<v Speaker 1>Swing axles will droop down. They sort of tuck under,

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<v Speaker 1>and it can take you by surprise if you're not

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<v Speaker 1>ready for it. But you know, in every car I've

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<v Speaker 1>driven with swing axles, the car really tells you what

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<v Speaker 1>it's doing. It doesn't come as a surprise. And what

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<v Speaker 1>you do in that situation, and this is really counterintuitive,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to give it more gas, not less, like

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<v Speaker 1>in a regular car. Things get squirrely you just lift

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<v Speaker 1>off the gas pedal and everything rights itself. But in

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<v Speaker 1>a car with swing axles and a rear engine, you

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<v Speaker 1>need to settle the rear by accelerating and shifting a

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<v Speaker 1>load of the thing and the mass backwards so the

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<v Speaker 1>wheels could pull out of right exactly right. So to

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<v Speaker 1>avoid the droop, you have to do something that feels unnatural.

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<v Speaker 1>But once you learn how to drive a car with

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<v Speaker 1>those kinds of axels, like a beetle or a three

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<v Speaker 1>fifty six or a going it's really fun and it's natural.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a skill that you have to develop. But once

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<v Speaker 1>you do, it's pretty gratifying to drive a car like this.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you didn't develop those skills, well, that's where

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<v Speaker 1>the trouble came in the acquire Ralph Nader, a legal

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<v Speaker 1>advisor to the United States Senate Inquiry, has just published

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<v Speaker 1>a book called Unsafe at Any Speed. In an interview

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<v Speaker 1>with Warner Troyer, Ralph Nader took aim at the corveer

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<v Speaker 1>in Unsafe at Any Speech, alleging that GM withheld critical

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<v Speaker 1>safety equipment in the engineering of the car. You say

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<v Speaker 1>that the cor of air for three or four years, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>was an unsafe vehicle to drive. Isn't that a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>wild exaggeration. No. I think the core are models nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty to sixty three, and to some extent sixty four

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<v Speaker 1>had a rear axle which is called technically a swing

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<v Speaker 1>axle rear suspension system which, under certain predictable conditions of driving,

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<v Speaker 1>the car would suddenly unexpectedly go out of control. He

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<v Speaker 1>thought GM should have put an anti roll bar in

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<v Speaker 1>the rear suspension to tame the car's handling. His argument

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<v Speaker 1>was based on some one hundred lawsuits against GM filed

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<v Speaker 1>by drivers who lost control of the car more than

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<v Speaker 1>a statistical anomaly. GM would settle most of these suits

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<v Speaker 1>out of court. In his book, Nader did not hold

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<v Speaker 1>back from Unsafe's first sentence. Nader was often running for

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<v Speaker 1>over half a century. He wrote, the automobile has brought death, injury,

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<v Speaker 1>and the most inestimable sorrow and deprivation to millions of people.

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<v Speaker 1>Ralph Nader was not a fun lover like our friend

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Morris with a yellow corvet or your humble narrator.

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<v Speaker 1>Nader was all business. He went to Princeton for undergrad

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<v Speaker 1>and then Harvard Law School. After that, his best friends

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<v Speaker 1>were books. He did not play Hackey Sack in the quad,

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<v Speaker 1>nor did he rip Narley bongtoakes with the brost Sigma Kai.

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<v Speaker 1>I would say he was monk like, but he was

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<v Speaker 1>way more self righteous than any monk. Either it's cheer,

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<v Speaker 1>callousness or indifference, or they don't bother to find out

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<v Speaker 1>how they're card behave. Nater took aim at the largest

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<v Speaker 1>corporation in the world, arguing that the corvet was a lethal,

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<v Speaker 1>unpredictable viper of a car ready to bite without provocation.

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<v Speaker 1>That's simply not true. The car could be a handful,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was predictable if you understood how it worked,

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<v Speaker 1>also if you understood how to maintain it. In the

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<v Speaker 1>corverre's case, maintaining balancing control depended a lot on setting

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<v Speaker 1>the tire pressures properly. It required a conscientious approach to

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle maintenance. But gas station attendance at the time had

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<v Speaker 1>a saying twenty four pounds all around and did not

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<v Speaker 1>care about keeping the corvert's tires at the right inflations.

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<v Speaker 1>Those inflations, if we're getting technical, were eighteen pounds per

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<v Speaker 1>square inch in front to give the tire a fatter

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<v Speaker 1>footprint and thirty pounds of pressure at the rear. Even

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<v Speaker 1>more stability he would be afforded by an anti roll

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<v Speaker 1>bar in the chassis, which GM would put in the

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<v Speaker 1>second generation of the car in nineteen sixty five. You

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<v Speaker 1>had to take care of it. Most people did not.

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<v Speaker 1>Though the Corvee was an above average car aimed at

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<v Speaker 1>an above average driver, that's not necessarily who ended up

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<v Speaker 1>buying it. Plenty of people in the nineteen sixties looking

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<v Speaker 1>for a small, affordable sedan walked into a Chevrolet dealership

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<v Speaker 1>and drove out in a corvee. The buyer for the

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<v Speaker 1>car was probably more of a small sedan buyer, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you had to apply that kind of sports car

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<v Speaker 1>care to this car, which a lot of them probably

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do. So a buyer of a three fifty six

0:16:57.196 --> 0:16:59.396
<v Speaker 1>knows what he or she is getting into a little

0:16:59.396 --> 0:17:03.996
<v Speaker 1>bit more, whereas maybe the buyer of the corvee was like, Oh,

0:17:03.996 --> 0:17:07.756
<v Speaker 1>it's just like you know, the bell Air, except a

0:17:07.756 --> 0:17:11.756
<v Speaker 1>little bit smaller, getting sportier, and I can afford it. Yeah,

0:17:11.796 --> 0:17:13.996
<v Speaker 1>and I can afford it, and you know, I don't

0:17:13.996 --> 0:17:16.756
<v Speaker 1>have to buy one of those imports. I think General

0:17:16.796 --> 0:17:20.916
<v Speaker 1>Motors was saying we're just as good as those sporting

0:17:21.036 --> 0:17:24.716
<v Speaker 1>imports from Germany, and we're gonna create a car that

0:17:25.076 --> 0:17:28.836
<v Speaker 1>might challenge you a little bit. And I don't know

0:17:28.876 --> 0:17:31.916
<v Speaker 1>if the average buyer was prepared for it. But also,

0:17:32.476 --> 0:17:37.996
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing diabolical or crazy about this card. It's comfortable,

0:17:38.116 --> 0:17:42.196
<v Speaker 1>you know, cor this thing tracks great. You know when

0:17:43.196 --> 0:17:47.116
<v Speaker 1>in the Blues Brothers when Jake and Ellwood go into

0:17:47.236 --> 0:17:52.196
<v Speaker 1>Ray Charles Ponshaw and need to buy some instruments, and

0:17:52.876 --> 0:17:55.276
<v Speaker 1>you don't remember that I don't, and he quotes in

0:17:55.356 --> 0:18:00.036
<v Speaker 1>this ridiculous price on a Rhodes piano, and he goes,

0:18:00.076 --> 0:18:02.716
<v Speaker 1>that's crazy for this thing. It's all beat up, and

0:18:03.476 --> 0:18:07.436
<v Speaker 1>Charles goes, excuse me, I don't think there's anything wrong

0:18:07.476 --> 0:18:17.676
<v Speaker 1>with the action on this piano. And that's kind of

0:18:17.716 --> 0:18:21.196
<v Speaker 1>how I feel about this. Whether all of this, it's great.

0:18:24.436 --> 0:18:26.076
<v Speaker 1>He just got an auto to play it, He got

0:18:26.156 --> 0:18:35.036
<v Speaker 1>an aw to drive it. Cheated death yet again, pocket

0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:44.436
<v Speaker 1>signing nator Nader would have been unconvinced and unsafe at

0:18:44.436 --> 0:18:47.716
<v Speaker 1>any speed. He suggests that the issue was an owner

0:18:47.716 --> 0:18:52.596
<v Speaker 1>maintenance or driving behavior. The issue was that Chevrolet was

0:18:52.636 --> 0:18:56.236
<v Speaker 1>too cheap that it chose to forego an anti roll

0:18:56.276 --> 0:19:01.356
<v Speaker 1>bar in the rear suspension because it added cost. Nader wrote,

0:19:01.996 --> 0:19:06.276
<v Speaker 1>an automobile representing a reduction of one thousand, three hundred

0:19:06.316 --> 0:19:09.676
<v Speaker 1>and thirty two pounds of material, or more than one

0:19:09.796 --> 0:19:13.036
<v Speaker 1>third the weight of a standard nineteen sixty Chevrolet that

0:19:13.116 --> 0:19:15.916
<v Speaker 1>could sell for only about two hundred dollars less than

0:19:15.996 --> 0:19:20.596
<v Speaker 1>standard models, would constitute a marvel of production cost efficiency

0:19:20.956 --> 0:19:27.516
<v Speaker 1>and sales ingenuity. If the Corvee was such a miracle

0:19:27.556 --> 0:19:32.596
<v Speaker 1>of profitability with so much economic headroom, why would GM

0:19:32.636 --> 0:19:34.796
<v Speaker 1>care about the cost of adding a slim piece of

0:19:34.796 --> 0:19:38.276
<v Speaker 1>metal to the rear end. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

0:19:39.556 --> 0:19:42.316
<v Speaker 1>By the time Nater's book came out in nineteen sixty five,

0:19:42.996 --> 0:19:46.396
<v Speaker 1>the Corvee had already evolved from swing axles to a

0:19:46.436 --> 0:19:50.596
<v Speaker 1>more advanced and stable type of independent rear suspension. It

0:19:50.676 --> 0:19:53.916
<v Speaker 1>was an admission on GM's part that the Corvee had

0:19:53.956 --> 0:19:58.236
<v Speaker 1>room for improvement. Though a new suspension is a big alteration,

0:19:58.996 --> 0:20:02.716
<v Speaker 1>changes are common in the car industry, and all new

0:20:02.756 --> 0:20:05.916
<v Speaker 1>model comes out, its flaws are cataloged by the press

0:20:05.916 --> 0:20:09.676
<v Speaker 1>and owners, and the company works to modify it. It

0:20:09.756 --> 0:20:15.396
<v Speaker 1>usually takes a few years. Though he wrote damningly that

0:20:15.556 --> 0:20:20.916
<v Speaker 1>GM diluted its engineering standards for the Corvet. Nater's book

0:20:21.076 --> 0:20:24.076
<v Speaker 1>did not prompt any changes to the car. The ebbs

0:20:24.076 --> 0:20:28.356
<v Speaker 1>and flows of the car development process did. That. Nater's

0:20:28.436 --> 0:20:32.556
<v Speaker 1>book came out after GM made the change. He himself

0:20:32.716 --> 0:20:35.876
<v Speaker 1>noted in the very first chapter that GM had made

0:20:35.916 --> 0:20:40.836
<v Speaker 1>these upgrades. Still, despite taking aim at the largest and

0:20:40.956 --> 0:20:45.116
<v Speaker 1>richest corporation in America, the book did not make much noise,

0:20:45.316 --> 0:20:51.356
<v Speaker 1>at least initially, but it worried GM. The corporation viewed

0:20:51.356 --> 0:20:54.996
<v Speaker 1>it as an attack on its sterling reputation, and they

0:20:55.076 --> 0:20:58.716
<v Speaker 1>sought to attack Nater in kind. When it became known

0:20:58.756 --> 0:21:02.876
<v Speaker 1>that GM had Nater tailed by private investigators, the story

0:21:02.996 --> 0:21:07.316
<v Speaker 1>erupted and the book got noticed, another great moment in

0:21:07.356 --> 0:21:16.836
<v Speaker 1>the history of unintended sequences. In the wake of the book,

0:21:17.276 --> 0:21:21.476
<v Speaker 1>sales of the re engineered Corvete without the swing axle collapsed.

0:21:22.356 --> 0:21:25.036
<v Speaker 1>In three years, GM went from selling more than two

0:21:25.156 --> 0:21:28.996
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand Corveres a year to fewer than fifteen thousand,

0:21:29.956 --> 0:21:34.076
<v Speaker 1>even as GM modified the car for greater stability. Nater

0:21:34.156 --> 0:21:36.676
<v Speaker 1>gets all the credit for this precipitous drop in sales,

0:21:37.356 --> 0:21:40.476
<v Speaker 1>but it is also true that the Ford Mustang did

0:21:40.476 --> 0:21:46.516
<v Speaker 1>as much as natter to kill the unconventional little Chevy stampede,

0:21:46.676 --> 0:21:51.796
<v Speaker 1>a stampede of one hundred thousand Mustangs Ford Mustang in

0:21:51.916 --> 0:21:54.756
<v Speaker 1>less than four months. The board Mustang has become the

0:21:54.796 --> 0:21:58.076
<v Speaker 1>most talked about, most exciting and fasto selling you've gotten

0:21:58.116 --> 0:22:01.956
<v Speaker 1>over twenty years. It seems like just about everyone wants one.

0:22:01.996 --> 0:22:05.516
<v Speaker 1>It was the Mustang, after all, that made small American

0:22:05.596 --> 0:22:12.236
<v Speaker 1>cars sexied. Five must they call it them two blacktoos.

0:22:12.676 --> 0:22:15.796
<v Speaker 1>It seats two upfront and when you pull down the

0:22:15.836 --> 0:22:19.196
<v Speaker 1>two bag seats, and there's room for a beach umbrella,

0:22:19.556 --> 0:22:25.076
<v Speaker 1>third board and a pheasant underglass. Henry's become quite a gourmet.

0:22:25.876 --> 0:22:28.836
<v Speaker 1>So I try to have everything ready for him when

0:22:28.876 --> 0:22:33.236
<v Speaker 1>he gets here. Why don't you change your nfe Ford

0:22:33.316 --> 0:22:35.836
<v Speaker 1>pitched the staying down the middle of the strike zone

0:22:36.036 --> 0:22:41.156
<v Speaker 1>at the largest, best educated, and most affluent generation America

0:22:41.276 --> 0:22:46.636
<v Speaker 1>had ever seen, Baby Boomers. It's arrival in nineteen sixty

0:22:46.636 --> 0:22:50.836
<v Speaker 1>four coincided with the boomer's first driving years. If the

0:22:50.876 --> 0:22:54.436
<v Speaker 1>Ford Model T mobilized the New America, then the Ford

0:22:54.516 --> 0:23:00.516
<v Speaker 1>Mustang mobilized a new American entity, the teenager with the

0:23:00.556 --> 0:23:03.996
<v Speaker 1>affordable and fun Mustang out on the street. The Corvet

0:23:04.156 --> 0:23:08.876
<v Speaker 1>was doomed anyway. Still, the car in the book are

0:23:08.916 --> 0:23:12.716
<v Speaker 1>for ever linked. Nater made it so that Corvet's very

0:23:12.876 --> 0:23:18.236
<v Speaker 1>name conjureous disaster. It is GM's analog to Ford's Edsel,

0:23:19.436 --> 0:23:23.436
<v Speaker 1>And with the book, Nator basically invented what we now

0:23:23.476 --> 0:23:28.796
<v Speaker 1>know as consumer advocacy. As the saying goes, consumer advocacy

0:23:29.196 --> 0:23:34.356
<v Speaker 1>focuses on fighting baths rather than producing goods. It is

0:23:34.396 --> 0:23:37.636
<v Speaker 1>a movement that has given us cleaner air, cleaner water,

0:23:38.156 --> 0:23:45.276
<v Speaker 1>and more temperate McDonald's coffee. Unsafe at Any Speed launched

0:23:45.276 --> 0:23:48.836
<v Speaker 1>a movement. It was the immediate precursor to the establishment

0:23:48.836 --> 0:23:53.196
<v Speaker 1>of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and other government

0:23:53.236 --> 0:23:59.436
<v Speaker 1>oversight agencies. Cars, of course, are safer now too. In

0:23:59.476 --> 0:24:03.236
<v Speaker 1>the mid sixties, there were roughly five road fatalities for

0:24:03.316 --> 0:24:07.516
<v Speaker 1>every one hundred million miles driven. Today it's roughly one

0:24:07.596 --> 0:24:14.236
<v Speaker 1>fatality over that same distance and eighty percent improvement. That's

0:24:14.316 --> 0:24:17.156
<v Speaker 1>incredible progress, and I find it hard to argue that

0:24:17.236 --> 0:24:22.716
<v Speaker 1>Nader's book didn't bring the issue into the mainstream. But

0:24:22.836 --> 0:24:27.636
<v Speaker 1>there's one number I can't quite get past. We'll talk

0:24:27.676 --> 0:24:41.436
<v Speaker 1>about it after the break, Hey, listeners, while I've got

0:24:41.476 --> 0:24:43.236
<v Speaker 1>you for a second. I want to talk to you

0:24:43.276 --> 0:24:45.916
<v Speaker 1>about a podcast I've been enjoying that I think you

0:24:45.996 --> 0:24:50.156
<v Speaker 1>might like to It's called Patented, and it's all about

0:24:50.236 --> 0:24:54.356
<v Speaker 1>history's most impactful inventions, from the airplane to the humble

0:24:54.396 --> 0:24:57.436
<v Speaker 1>cup of coffee, and the inventors who claimed these ideas

0:24:57.476 --> 0:25:01.476
<v Speaker 1>as their own. The history of inventions is full of myths,

0:25:02.076 --> 0:25:06.076
<v Speaker 1>stories of Eureka moments and genius loan inventors, but this

0:25:06.236 --> 0:25:11.076
<v Speaker 1>reality is often a lot more complicated and interesting. Patented

0:25:11.196 --> 0:25:14.596
<v Speaker 1>is hosted by Dallas Campbell, a science presenter who loves

0:25:14.636 --> 0:25:17.076
<v Speaker 1>to try to get to the bottom of these messy stories.

0:25:17.836 --> 0:25:20.596
<v Speaker 1>They have episodes on everything from how corn flakes were

0:25:20.596 --> 0:25:24.716
<v Speaker 1>created on a foundation of some pretty questionable science, why

0:25:24.836 --> 0:25:27.316
<v Speaker 1>monks were the most inventive minds of the Middle Ages,

0:25:27.876 --> 0:25:30.396
<v Speaker 1>and who should really get credit for the first motion

0:25:30.436 --> 0:25:36.276
<v Speaker 1>picture spoiler it's not Thomas Edison. Coming up. They have

0:25:36.396 --> 0:25:41.996
<v Speaker 1>episodes on cryonics, contactless payment, and plastic surgery. So if

0:25:42.036 --> 0:25:44.796
<v Speaker 1>any of that sounds up your ally, you can subscribe

0:25:44.796 --> 0:25:48.316
<v Speaker 1>to Patented History of Inventions from our friends over at

0:25:48.356 --> 0:25:53.636
<v Speaker 1>History hit on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:25:59.236 --> 0:26:02.716
<v Speaker 1>Nater's advocacy in the nineteen sixties brought about a new

0:26:02.716 --> 0:26:07.916
<v Speaker 1>awareness around automotive safety. But there's one statistic that nags

0:26:07.956 --> 0:26:14.116
<v Speaker 1>at me. Before Nater entered the scene, roughly forty thousand

0:26:14.116 --> 0:26:19.596
<v Speaker 1>people died per year in car collisions. Today, forty thousand

0:26:19.636 --> 0:26:23.876
<v Speaker 1>people per years still die in car collisions. Sure, the

0:26:23.956 --> 0:26:27.156
<v Speaker 1>population is larger, so the proportion of deaths is down,

0:26:27.836 --> 0:26:30.996
<v Speaker 1>and fatalities per mile is a fraction of what it was.

0:26:32.476 --> 0:26:38.196
<v Speaker 1>But forty thousand deaths is still forty thousand deaths. That's

0:26:38.276 --> 0:26:46.076
<v Speaker 1>forty thousand real people, mothers, daughters, sons, and fathers. This

0:26:46.316 --> 0:26:51.516
<v Speaker 1>in an age of air bags, passenger safety cells, crumple zones,

0:26:51.956 --> 0:26:56.116
<v Speaker 1>blind spot warnings, and a host of other safety innovations

0:26:56.196 --> 0:27:00.036
<v Speaker 1>that didn't exist sixty five years ago. With all the

0:27:00.076 --> 0:27:04.236
<v Speaker 1>advances in automotive and road safety in those intervening six decades,

0:27:04.916 --> 0:27:07.756
<v Speaker 1>you think that that number would be much much lower.

0:27:11.236 --> 0:27:15.516
<v Speaker 1>So why is it still so high. Well, one theory

0:27:15.596 --> 0:27:18.836
<v Speaker 1>is that, in the wake of nature, we stopped focusing

0:27:18.836 --> 0:27:23.236
<v Speaker 1>on driver proficiency and started letting the car assume responsibility

0:27:23.436 --> 0:27:27.356
<v Speaker 1>for our safety. Kenneth White wrote a book about that shift,

0:27:28.476 --> 0:27:31.276
<v Speaker 1>in the Sack of Detroit. He tells us how it

0:27:31.356 --> 0:27:34.876
<v Speaker 1>played out. So it wasn't until the twenties when everybody

0:27:34.916 --> 0:27:37.636
<v Speaker 1>had a car and people were using cars a lot

0:27:37.716 --> 0:27:39.836
<v Speaker 1>more and the roads were better and they were driving

0:27:39.876 --> 0:27:44.796
<v Speaker 1>faster and driving off them faster. That's when traffic safety

0:27:44.836 --> 0:27:49.396
<v Speaker 1>became more of an issue. And so Herbert Hoover has

0:27:49.476 --> 0:27:55.836
<v Speaker 1>this big confab in the nineteen twenties where he invites

0:27:56.396 --> 0:28:01.796
<v Speaker 1>the industry, he invites health authorities, he invites municipal and

0:28:01.836 --> 0:28:04.516
<v Speaker 1>state governments and said, you know, we got to do

0:28:04.676 --> 0:28:08.116
<v Speaker 1>something about it. Let's pull together all the information we

0:28:08.196 --> 0:28:12.836
<v Speaker 1>have about auto safety and come up with a general

0:28:12.876 --> 0:28:15.796
<v Speaker 1>approach to the problem. And that's where the Tripoli approach

0:28:15.876 --> 0:28:22.796
<v Speaker 1>came from. Triple E. It stands for education, engineering, and enforcement.

0:28:23.756 --> 0:28:26.516
<v Speaker 1>Education was about making sure people knew that cars were

0:28:26.596 --> 0:28:29.516
<v Speaker 1>dangerous and that they knew how to drive, how to

0:28:29.556 --> 0:28:34.196
<v Speaker 1>share the road, and how to maintain their vehicles. Engineering

0:28:34.236 --> 0:28:37.956
<v Speaker 1>concerned road design and ensuring that highways were properly marked

0:28:38.076 --> 0:28:41.756
<v Speaker 1>and had good sight lines and grading. This led to

0:28:41.836 --> 0:28:45.036
<v Speaker 1>the divided highway and much greater levels of highway safety.

0:28:46.396 --> 0:28:52.876
<v Speaker 1>An enforcement well you know what that means. But while

0:28:52.876 --> 0:28:56.316
<v Speaker 1>the proportion of deaths relative to driven miles was going down,

0:28:57.236 --> 0:29:00.796
<v Speaker 1>a huge number of people were still dying in car crashes.

0:29:01.076 --> 0:29:04.436
<v Speaker 1>It was the medical community that first said, you know,

0:29:04.556 --> 0:29:08.356
<v Speaker 1>maybe triple E isn't everything here. Maybe there's something else

0:29:08.396 --> 0:29:13.556
<v Speaker 1>we can do to keep people from getting smashed to

0:29:13.636 --> 0:29:17.556
<v Speaker 1>pieces in their automobiles. They were more concerned with what

0:29:17.716 --> 0:29:21.276
<v Speaker 1>was called the second collision, which was after the bad

0:29:21.316 --> 0:29:24.316
<v Speaker 1>thing on the road had happened, and then driver or

0:29:24.396 --> 0:29:28.476
<v Speaker 1>passenger hits the dashboard or goes flying out of the vehicle,

0:29:28.556 --> 0:29:32.516
<v Speaker 1>and that's where the whole second collision theory, which was

0:29:33.276 --> 0:29:38.356
<v Speaker 1>taken as an alternative to the triple East school, came

0:29:38.396 --> 0:29:42.796
<v Speaker 1>into play. In the nineteen fifties. Nader was a second

0:29:42.796 --> 0:29:46.516
<v Speaker 1>collision man. He thought the car was the problem, not

0:29:46.556 --> 0:29:52.156
<v Speaker 1>the driver. In Unsafe, he called the Corvette an American

0:29:52.196 --> 0:29:56.156
<v Speaker 1>car that abruptly decides to do the driving for the driver.

0:29:56.996 --> 0:30:00.116
<v Speaker 1>The idea that we had to concentrate now on car

0:30:00.196 --> 0:30:07.236
<v Speaker 1>interiors as the leading factor in human carnage was appealing

0:30:07.276 --> 0:30:13.516
<v Speaker 1>to the men folks, but it was also appealing to

0:30:13.756 --> 0:30:17.756
<v Speaker 1>the tort industry in the US in the fifties, the

0:30:19.036 --> 0:30:24.876
<v Speaker 1>tort industry saw an opportunity to use second collision theory

0:30:25.356 --> 0:30:32.956
<v Speaker 1>to argue that all traffic accidents were the responsibility of carmakers,

0:30:33.116 --> 0:30:37.596
<v Speaker 1>because if carmakers could make a crashproof car, and surely

0:30:37.676 --> 0:30:40.836
<v Speaker 1>to God, carmakers, being big and rich and smart and

0:30:41.716 --> 0:30:44.156
<v Speaker 1>you know, the world's best engineers, knew how to make

0:30:44.196 --> 0:30:49.876
<v Speaker 1>a crashproof car. If they could make a crashproof car

0:30:49.916 --> 0:30:54.276
<v Speaker 1>and weren't making a crashproof car, they were liable for

0:30:54.316 --> 0:30:57.236
<v Speaker 1>all of those deaths on the road. They have failed

0:30:57.236 --> 0:31:00.316
<v Speaker 1>to give people the degree of safety to which they

0:31:00.316 --> 0:31:06.036
<v Speaker 1>were entitled. GM had faith in the customer. They figured

0:31:06.036 --> 0:31:08.796
<v Speaker 1>that drivers could play up to the Corvette in much

0:31:08.836 --> 0:31:11.596
<v Speaker 1>the way an average tennis player improves when hitting with

0:31:11.636 --> 0:31:16.676
<v Speaker 1>a great one. Nader argued that that trust was misplaced.

0:31:17.876 --> 0:31:20.276
<v Speaker 1>He thought that people shouldn't have to adapt to the car,

0:31:20.596 --> 0:31:23.596
<v Speaker 1>and shouldn't have to maintain awareness or tire pressures to

0:31:23.676 --> 0:31:27.676
<v Speaker 1>keep the car shiny side up. It was the corporation's

0:31:27.716 --> 0:31:32.076
<v Speaker 1>responsibility to protect us from the effects of our own incompetence.

0:31:33.796 --> 0:31:37.236
<v Speaker 1>But the irony is that the Corvet didn't require special skills.

0:31:38.356 --> 0:31:40.876
<v Speaker 1>It was not a hard car to drive fast, nor

0:31:40.996 --> 0:31:44.796
<v Speaker 1>an inherently dangerous one. You just had to learn how

0:31:44.796 --> 0:31:51.156
<v Speaker 1>it behaved and how to maintain it. Nader, a legendary autodidact,

0:31:51.716 --> 0:31:54.876
<v Speaker 1>did not think other people were capable of such feats.

0:31:55.716 --> 0:31:58.916
<v Speaker 1>The density of safety features in our cars today is

0:31:59.036 --> 0:32:06.716
<v Speaker 1>generally considered an outgrowth of this thinking. The safety crisis

0:32:06.756 --> 0:32:11.916
<v Speaker 1>precipitated by Nator did lead to safer cars. It led

0:32:11.956 --> 0:32:17.276
<v Speaker 1>to cars with air bags, with anti breaks, with traction control,

0:32:17.396 --> 0:32:22.396
<v Speaker 1>and now with all kinds of driver assist technology. So yeah,

0:32:22.476 --> 0:32:26.956
<v Speaker 1>those things came after Nader. Did they really come because

0:32:26.996 --> 0:32:32.236
<v Speaker 1>of Nader? I don't think that necessarily follows. I mean

0:32:33.196 --> 0:32:37.756
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the things like the traction control were

0:32:37.796 --> 0:32:42.756
<v Speaker 1>already operable in some European models before then. You know,

0:32:42.796 --> 0:32:47.996
<v Speaker 1>it took time for Detroit to adopt the technology and

0:32:48.116 --> 0:32:51.796
<v Speaker 1>put it in cars, but it didn't do so because

0:32:51.836 --> 0:32:54.876
<v Speaker 1>the government told it to it did it, did it,

0:32:54.916 --> 0:32:58.676
<v Speaker 1>and when it was ready. I would argue that actually

0:32:58.876 --> 0:33:03.436
<v Speaker 1>the second Collision view that air bags were the answer

0:33:03.516 --> 0:33:07.076
<v Speaker 1>to everything actually set in America back in terms of

0:33:07.076 --> 0:33:11.316
<v Speaker 1>public safety and killed more people than would otherwise have

0:33:12.276 --> 0:33:18.436
<v Speaker 1>died because the focus on the car and the crash

0:33:18.476 --> 0:33:23.396
<v Speaker 1>worthiness of the car detracted entirely from what had been

0:33:23.676 --> 0:33:28.116
<v Speaker 1>a fairly steady concern about the driver and what the

0:33:28.236 --> 0:33:33.956
<v Speaker 1>driver was doing. Was the driver sober? Was the driver reckless?

0:33:34.036 --> 0:33:37.796
<v Speaker 1>Did the driver bothered to put on his seatbelt? Here's

0:33:37.796 --> 0:33:41.076
<v Speaker 1>what we have to wrestle with the set of ideas

0:33:41.156 --> 0:33:45.076
<v Speaker 1>nater espoused. Undoubtedly led to cars that better protected us,

0:33:45.916 --> 0:33:51.716
<v Speaker 1>But did they make us better? Road fatalities maybe down.

0:33:52.156 --> 0:33:55.196
<v Speaker 1>But is that because we're better drivers? Or is it

0:33:55.236 --> 0:33:58.556
<v Speaker 1>because the car is shouldering the work? Does the image

0:33:58.596 --> 0:34:01.916
<v Speaker 1>American driver today have more mastery of their five thousand

0:34:01.996 --> 0:34:05.716
<v Speaker 1>pound car than they did sixty years ago? Or do

0:34:05.756 --> 0:34:09.036
<v Speaker 1>we think of it as an appliance, a four wheeled microwave,

0:34:09.676 --> 0:34:13.516
<v Speaker 1>not really understanding how it works, never taking it too

0:34:13.676 --> 0:34:16.756
<v Speaker 1>or beyond the limits of its capabilities unless we're about

0:34:16.756 --> 0:34:20.556
<v Speaker 1>to crash into something? Do we even know what's happening

0:34:20.636 --> 0:34:25.756
<v Speaker 1>under our feet? These are, of course all rhetorical questions.

0:34:26.796 --> 0:34:30.756
<v Speaker 1>We know what happens when something goes wrong. We're unprepared

0:34:30.796 --> 0:34:34.836
<v Speaker 1>for it. We lack the skill to react appropriately. We

0:34:34.956 --> 0:34:37.716
<v Speaker 1>crash into stuff, and the air bags and crumpled zones

0:34:37.796 --> 0:34:42.076
<v Speaker 1>keep us from dying. We have followed second collision philosophy,

0:34:42.716 --> 0:34:47.556
<v Speaker 1>not triple E. Think about the path that begins at

0:34:47.596 --> 0:34:51.756
<v Speaker 1>the corvet because some of its buyers didn't understand it,

0:34:52.396 --> 0:34:56.196
<v Speaker 1>they didn't properly maintain it, and because that small group

0:34:56.236 --> 0:34:59.796
<v Speaker 1>of drivers got into trouble with it, cars began to

0:34:59.836 --> 0:35:04.196
<v Speaker 1>be engineered for the lowest level of skill. We began

0:35:04.276 --> 0:35:07.356
<v Speaker 1>to blame the car for our bad driving, which led

0:35:07.356 --> 0:35:10.116
<v Speaker 1>the carmakers to try to bubble rap every aspect of

0:35:10.116 --> 0:35:14.356
<v Speaker 1>their operation, and we became reliant on that safety net.

0:35:15.236 --> 0:35:18.156
<v Speaker 1>Thus began a long erosion of skills that led us

0:35:18.156 --> 0:35:22.676
<v Speaker 1>to now the age of the no consequences car. Stuff

0:35:22.716 --> 0:35:25.076
<v Speaker 1>on new cars meant to help us avoid crashing on

0:35:25.116 --> 0:35:30.036
<v Speaker 1>account of our own distraction stuff like lane keeping, blind

0:35:30.076 --> 0:35:36.556
<v Speaker 1>spot monitoring, backup cameras. These are all ultimately making us

0:35:36.676 --> 0:35:40.396
<v Speaker 1>less attentive drivers. How many of us feel safe to

0:35:40.396 --> 0:35:43.116
<v Speaker 1>eat while driving, to grab a quick beer on the

0:35:43.116 --> 0:35:46.676
<v Speaker 1>way home from work, to send a really important meme

0:35:46.756 --> 0:35:50.076
<v Speaker 1>to our coworker, secure in the knowledge that the traction

0:35:50.116 --> 0:35:53.636
<v Speaker 1>control and lane keeping and breaking assist will sort it

0:35:53.676 --> 0:35:59.636
<v Speaker 1>all out. Fatalities per mile driven maybe down, but forty

0:35:59.636 --> 0:36:02.796
<v Speaker 1>thousand people are still dying on the road every year.

0:36:03.996 --> 0:36:07.636
<v Speaker 1>That's where the negligence lies. The loose nut behind the wheel.

0:36:09.796 --> 0:36:11.956
<v Speaker 1>The Corvere was a new kind of car from a

0:36:12.036 --> 0:36:17.676
<v Speaker 1>high riding General Motors, more sophisticated, more innovative, and more

0:36:17.716 --> 0:36:21.276
<v Speaker 1>of a European style sedan than anything the corporation had

0:36:21.316 --> 0:36:25.636
<v Speaker 1>produced to that point. The Corvere was General Motors, flexing

0:36:25.636 --> 0:36:29.036
<v Speaker 1>its muscles, showing the world that it could out engineer

0:36:29.316 --> 0:36:35.116
<v Speaker 1>and outthink the foreign competition. The Corvere tragedy lies in

0:36:35.116 --> 0:36:37.636
<v Speaker 1>the car it was trying to be, and how those

0:36:37.676 --> 0:36:42.716
<v Speaker 1>aspirations stalled. The Corvere affair cut down an emergent style

0:36:42.796 --> 0:36:48.076
<v Speaker 1>of driver oriented American car. It deprived a generation of

0:36:48.116 --> 0:36:53.396
<v Speaker 1>car enthusiasts, an American alternative to European sport sedans. But

0:36:53.556 --> 0:36:56.316
<v Speaker 1>more than any of that, it may have wounded an

0:36:56.396 --> 0:37:00.196
<v Speaker 1>important part of the American spirit. Who knows what might

0:37:00.196 --> 0:37:03.756
<v Speaker 1>have happened if the Corvere had succeeded, if we sought

0:37:03.756 --> 0:37:09.636
<v Speaker 1>to make drivers safer rather than just the cars. Never know,

0:37:11.036 --> 0:37:14.996
<v Speaker 1>Nader let us off the hook. Our independence and self

0:37:15.036 --> 0:37:19.156
<v Speaker 1>determination have caveats. Now. We are more reliant than ever

0:37:19.316 --> 0:37:23.516
<v Speaker 1>on big corporations to keep us safe. And isn't that

0:37:23.596 --> 0:37:41.436
<v Speaker 1>a scarier concept than a swing axle Car show is

0:37:41.476 --> 0:37:45.476
<v Speaker 1>written and hosted by me Eddie Alterman. It's produced by

0:37:45.476 --> 0:37:50.316
<v Speaker 1>Sam Dingman, Jacob Smith and Amy Gaines. Our editor is

0:37:50.396 --> 0:37:56.196
<v Speaker 1>Jen Guero. Original music and mastering by Ben Taliday. Our

0:37:56.236 --> 0:38:00.596
<v Speaker 1>executive producer is Mia Lobell. Our show art was designed

0:38:00.596 --> 0:38:04.636
<v Speaker 1>by Sean Karney. An airbrush by Greg la Fever. Our

0:38:04.676 --> 0:38:09.876
<v Speaker 1>patron Saints are Leetal Mallad and Justine Lange. Special thanks

0:38:09.876 --> 0:38:13.356
<v Speaker 1>to my guests Brian Morris and Kenneth White. Check out

0:38:13.436 --> 0:38:17.516
<v Speaker 1>Ken's book The Sack of Detroit, all about GM's dominant era.

0:38:18.916 --> 0:38:22.196
<v Speaker 1>Car Show is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

0:38:22.276 --> 0:38:25.956
<v Speaker 1>love this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing

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<v Speaker 1>to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that

0:38:30.196 --> 0:38:34.196
<v Speaker 1>offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening for just four ninety

0:38:34.276 --> 0:38:38.516
<v Speaker 1>nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions.

0:38:39.996 --> 0:38:43.876
<v Speaker 1>To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app,

0:38:44.356 --> 0:39:09.436
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Aeroplanes, spacesuits, condoms, coffee, plastic, jury,

0:39:09.516 --> 0:39:13.156
<v Speaker 1>warships over on the patented podcast by History Hit. We

0:39:13.236 --> 0:39:17.956
<v Speaker 1>bring you the fascinating stories of histories, most impactful inventions,

0:39:17.996 --> 0:39:21.476
<v Speaker 1>and the people who claim these ideas as their own.

0:39:22.276 --> 0:39:26.156
<v Speaker 1>We uncover exceptional stories behind everyday objects we manage to

0:39:26.196 --> 0:39:28.476
<v Speaker 1>put two men on the moon before we put wheels

0:39:28.476 --> 0:39:32.996
<v Speaker 1>on suitcases. Unpack invention myths. So the prince's widow immediately

0:39:33.036 --> 0:39:36.596
<v Speaker 1>becomes certain Thomas Edison stole her husband's invention and her

0:39:36.636 --> 0:39:39.636
<v Speaker 1>husband disappeared around the same time. Can only have been

0:39:39.676 --> 0:39:43.116
<v Speaker 1>eliminated by Thomas Edison, who at the time is arguably

0:39:43.156 --> 0:39:45.876
<v Speaker 1>the most famous person in the West, and look backwards

0:39:45.876 --> 0:39:49.476
<v Speaker 1>to understand technologies that are still in progress. You know

0:39:49.516 --> 0:39:51.116
<v Speaker 1>when people turn around to me and say, oh, why

0:39:51.156 --> 0:39:53.316
<v Speaker 1>would you live on to live forever? Life should rubbish?

0:39:53.356 --> 0:39:55.076
<v Speaker 1>I just think that's a bit sad. I think it's

0:39:55.156 --> 0:39:58.396
<v Speaker 1>worthwhile thing to do, and the thing that really makes

0:39:58.396 --> 0:39:59.916
<v Speaker 1>it with while is the fact that you could make

0:39:59.956 --> 0:40:03.196
<v Speaker 1>it go on forever. So subscribe to Patented from History,

0:40:03.276 --> 0:40:06.956
<v Speaker 1>hit on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts

0:40:07.196 --> 0:40:10.316
<v Speaker 1>to catch new episodes everywhere Wednesday and Sunday,