Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guys. What's up with your Brodie? With
Speaker 1: the virtual handshake, I'm gonna tell you something that I
Speaker 1: never told your back. I want to smoke. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition All the Smoke. Jack, what's happening with
Speaker 1: your brother and man cooling? My brother Just and John
Speaker 1: his beautiful life. Man, what's up with you? Man? I
Speaker 1: can't call it out here in l A. Was trying
Speaker 1: to give the baby a bath a little bit earlier
Speaker 1: in this little nigger ship all in the toilet clug
Speaker 1: everything up. So hey, I'm off to a good start today.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you that anyway. Outside of that, Man,
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up a huge football fan and
Speaker 1: this dude is to me, one of the best defensive
Speaker 1: backs to ever play the game. It's an honor to
Speaker 1: have him today. Welcome our friend, Charles Woodson, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show. Bro appreciate it, man, I appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 1: Good to see your boys. Many will Man. We appreciate
Speaker 1: at your time. Man. So let's let's get right to it. Man,
Speaker 1: was a definitely a year to forget. Um, what do
Speaker 1: you take away from that year personally? You know? Man,
Speaker 1: it was it was like you just mentioned that it
Speaker 1: was a tough year. Was it was an odd, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of weird year, man. And I feel like, Um,
Speaker 1: everyone had to you either move, you know, you either
Speaker 1: get better you get worse, right, And so everybody had
Speaker 1: to find a way man too, um do their thing
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You know, Like we're on this zoom
Speaker 1: call right now, you know, and you know, before you
Speaker 1: had to travel, you know, you had to pick up,
Speaker 1: leave your house, leave for two or three days wherever
Speaker 1: you were going, um to to do an interview or
Speaker 1: to meet with people, and all of these different things.
Speaker 1: But now all of these things are done through zoom.
Speaker 1: So I feel like everybody had to adjust. I think
Speaker 1: was a year for adjustment if you wanted to survive.
Speaker 1: And if you didn't want to survive, then you don't adjust,
Speaker 1: and you stick to what you doing, then you find yourself.
Speaker 1: You're gonna find yourself in one trying to catch up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I feel like that
Speaker 1: was a big part of it. And then I felt
Speaker 1: like I felt blessed, to be honest with you, because
Speaker 1: you know, you watch television and you see people struggling. Man.
Speaker 1: You see, um, where people are cooped up in in
Speaker 1: their homes, apartments, or wherever they are. I'm so blessed
Speaker 1: to be to live where I lived, where I could
Speaker 1: actually get outside, I could get out, ride my bike,
Speaker 1: and you know, just kind of enjoyed my surroundings. And
Speaker 1: I didn't really felt like I had a care in
Speaker 1: the world. Man. My family was good, you know, everybody
Speaker 1: was healthy. So man, we just we just maintained through
Speaker 1: the whole thing and just and just try to, like
Speaker 1: like I said, survive. Man. In adjust how do you
Speaker 1: feel about the NFL finally back in their players in
Speaker 1: the social justice fight. Yeah, I think they had to, man,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it was it was it was
Speaker 1: up in the face of everybody. Um. You know, I've
Speaker 1: watched you know, all that you guys have done, especially
Speaker 1: you know, surrounding George it um and when people saw that. Man,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember watching Dave Chappelle's uh stand up
Speaker 1: when he emphasized eight minutes and forty six seconds, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And when he when he emphasized it.
Speaker 1: It almost it almost shook your body because the whole
Speaker 1: world actually sat there and watched that, and you could
Speaker 1: you can sit there and watch it for eight minutes
Speaker 1: in forty six seconds, and when you watch that, it
Speaker 1: just it tears you apart because the look on the
Speaker 1: face of the officer to me, was the most disheartening
Speaker 1: part of the whole thing, because he, for one, he
Speaker 1: didn't care about the life in which he took, but
Speaker 1: then his face also told you ain't nothing gonna happen
Speaker 1: to me. I have all of these cameras on me,
Speaker 1: I got all these cell phones, probably got cameras from
Speaker 1: the store zooming down on him, and his face said, man,
Speaker 1: I don't care, you can't do nothing to me, and
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna happen to me. And the world saw that man,
Speaker 1: and that's why there was an upris and not just
Speaker 1: here in the States, but around the world and in
Speaker 1: different countries. You saw people who were standing up and
Speaker 1: actually felt like at that point they had the courage
Speaker 1: to stand up and say something. So the NFL, you
Speaker 1: know what, what something with that with that moment symbolized this.
Speaker 1: I think they mentally you got a picture of Colin
Speaker 1: Kappernick kneeling down, and then you got a picture of
Speaker 1: that officer kneeling down, and you said, wait, you got
Speaker 1: to step back and say, wait a minute. We we
Speaker 1: just we just vilified this guy for kneeling down for change,
Speaker 1: and he's no longer allowed to play in our NFL
Speaker 1: because we pitted him against the American flag. And then
Speaker 1: we got this officer of the law who's kneeling down
Speaker 1: taking a life as if he's gonna have immunity, and
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna happen to him. And so the NFL had
Speaker 1: to they had to come around man. Otherwise Man, it
Speaker 1: was there's gonna be a big problem. Absolutely. Did you
Speaker 1: kind of feel obviously you came in in the late nineties, um,
Speaker 1: but played eighteen years. Were there ever issues? I mean,
Speaker 1: the NBA is kind of always freely, been very free
Speaker 1: and has always backed its players and stood behind us
Speaker 1: when we spoke on things. Were there ever a time
Speaker 1: in your career that anything came up or or possibly
Speaker 1: anything that you know, not necessarily that affected you, but
Speaker 1: came up in general, But you didn't really feel comfortable
Speaker 1: speaking on it because, like I said, in the NFL
Speaker 1: is really to me on the outside looking in, never
Speaker 1: really had the backs of its players when it came
Speaker 1: to speaking up for things that are unjust, things that
Speaker 1: are wrong, just in general speaking up. Did you ever
Speaker 1: have that feeling as a player while you were playing. No,
Speaker 1: I never had that feeling in I don't feel like
Speaker 1: during my time like there was there was an issue
Speaker 1: that I felt like I really needed to, you know,
Speaker 1: step up and speak out about. UM. Most of the
Speaker 1: things that happened to me during my career that I
Speaker 1: felt like I needed to speak out against, as far
Speaker 1: as maybe the you know, a team or coach or whatever.
Speaker 1: I never had no issues with that. I said what
Speaker 1: I what I would feel at that moment. But of course,
Speaker 1: you know, guys, you know, depending on UM, you know
Speaker 1: where you are in the economic you know, ladder, as
Speaker 1: far as the sports is concerned. You know, that does
Speaker 1: silence a lot of guys. And that's that's the one
Speaker 1: thing that I would say about NFL players that we
Speaker 1: always envied about basketball and the NBA is that they
Speaker 1: did always seem to have the backup the players. You know,
Speaker 1: even even even when it comes down to coaching in
Speaker 1: the NBA, hiring black coaches, you know, those types of
Speaker 1: things we were in the NFL. We look at will
Speaker 1: be like, man, those guys are miles ahead of us.
Speaker 1: Um as far as you know what we're doing. So
Speaker 1: but but as far as me being uh, you know,
Speaker 1: afraid to speak out about something, thoughts on how the
Speaker 1: NFL is navigated through COVID and and it's you know,
Speaker 1: efforts to try to finish this season. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the NBA is definitely facing it right now with you know,
Speaker 1: games being canceled because guys don't have enough you know,
Speaker 1: players to to feel the team. The NFL for the
Speaker 1: most part, obviously you guys have a lot more people
Speaker 1: on your roster. But they've done a fairly good job
Speaker 1: of kind of being able to navigate through this COVID.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on on what they've been doing.
Speaker 1: I think I think they've done a great job. Consider it, man,
Speaker 1: You know, the the NFL is a machine. You know,
Speaker 1: this is fifteen sixteen billion dollar a year business man.
Speaker 1: They were they were going to make it work. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, you had a few hiccups, you know during
Speaker 1: the middle of the season where they had to push
Speaker 1: some games back and you know kind of rearranged scheduling
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I think the NFL, man, the
Speaker 1: owners and the commissioners and and everybody involved. Man, they
Speaker 1: were dead set on making sure that this that this
Speaker 1: season worked. And if if somebody was to you know,
Speaker 1: get COVID or come down with symptoms or you know,
Speaker 1: you had people that were um around that person and
Speaker 1: they had the quarantine. You know, if you had to,
Speaker 1: if you were to the Broncos that you had to
Speaker 1: bring in a guy who never played it down, then
Speaker 1: you brought it in because you were gonna make you
Speaker 1: were gonna make it work. Man. So I think the
Speaker 1: NFL that they done a new outstanding job. But I
Speaker 1: think they have the bully pulpit, man, you know, they
Speaker 1: they call the shots. So yeah, I think they did
Speaker 1: a great job now, I think and I think it's
Speaker 1: been an outstanding season. Uh thus far in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Who who's caught your I teams players? Yeah, Man, I
Speaker 1: really like, um what I see out of Buffalo. I've
Speaker 1: been I've been really high on you know, their quarterback
Speaker 1: this year. I think he's you know, kind of making
Speaker 1: he's making that leap as far as being one of
Speaker 1: the elite quarterbacks in the game. I think what they
Speaker 1: did in the off season trading for Stefane Diggs was
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like the the one thing that
Speaker 1: they really needed, like a like a stud on the
Speaker 1: outside that was gonna draw attention. And you see the
Speaker 1: way that their relationship has really developed over the course
Speaker 1: of this season. These guys are like best friends. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you got a quarterback and a receiver
Speaker 1: on the same page the way that they are, you know,
Speaker 1: you're gonna put up a lot of yards, score touchdowns,
Speaker 1: which is ultimately going to help you win games. And
Speaker 1: when you think about it, you know, if it was
Speaker 1: to come down to you know, the Bills and and
Speaker 1: say the Chiefs, then you got to score points because
Speaker 1: the Chiefs are going to score points. So you gotta
Speaker 1: have you gotta have an offense that's that's gonna be
Speaker 1: able to shoot it out with those guys. Um if
Speaker 1: they happen to meet down the road black quarterbacks in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, Lamar Mahomes weston how special these guys man.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's great because you know, when you
Speaker 1: think back right when we were growing up, you know
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was that stigma about you know,
Speaker 1: black quarterbacks and playing you know, playing that position right.
Speaker 1: And to have you know, so many of these young
Speaker 1: guys coming in and really being able to you know, um,
Speaker 1: you know take that quarterback and quarterback in position to
Speaker 1: the next level. It just it does you some good,
Speaker 1: right because we all, all of us, you know, had
Speaker 1: some guys that we you know, we knew growing up
Speaker 1: or watched you know, in high school or other high
Speaker 1: schools that were athletic quarterbacks, but you knew as soon
Speaker 1: as they got the college they were moving to receiver,
Speaker 1: right or as soon as they left college and went
Speaker 1: to the pros, somebody's gonna say, no, he maybe he'll
Speaker 1: be a good punt returner. And so those guys never
Speaker 1: got they never got a shot to play play the game.
Speaker 1: And so now like you said, you know, having uh
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson in there, man who who got his you know,
Speaker 1: first playoff win, which is outstanding. So he's gonna be dangerous,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, He's gonna be a dangerous
Speaker 1: guy in his playoffs. So um, it's fun to watch him, man,
Speaker 1: because they bring so much excitement into the game. You know,
Speaker 1: you talk about my homes throwing uh no look passes
Speaker 1: and behind his back and underhand and dude, he's a
Speaker 1: special guy. Man. So I just I like watching all
Speaker 1: these guys. It's just it just makes the game fun.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on the lack I mean you touched on it
Speaker 1: a second ago, but the lack of black head coaches
Speaker 1: um in the NFL. Is there a recipe that kind
Speaker 1: of change that? I know, Eric b Enemy as someone
Speaker 1: who's been sitting in line definitely uh paid his dues. Um.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on the possible way of getting
Speaker 1: more to versity uh? For for NFL head coaches, Well,
Speaker 1: we thought we had that way with the Rooney rule,
Speaker 1: you know, but it seems like it seems like guys
Speaker 1: are brought in, you know, just as like that that
Speaker 1: token interview and then and then it's all about you know,
Speaker 1: the buddy buddy system, you know, and bringing in, you know,
Speaker 1: a guy that maybe brought you in years ago, or
Speaker 1: a guy that's been coaching forever. You know. I think back,
Speaker 1: or I think about a coach of mine, Joe Witt,
Speaker 1: who's my defensive backs coach in Green Bay, and I
Speaker 1: noticed I've been around this guy as as as a
Speaker 1: player on the same team with him, coached by him.
Speaker 1: I know he understands football. I know he's waiting on
Speaker 1: this shot to possibly get a coordinator position, but he
Speaker 1: could never get that shot, you know, and he just
Speaker 1: continues to get you know, passed over and get and
Speaker 1: gets looked over. And you know, I'm you know, I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you know how, you know, talking about him
Speaker 1: and giving him his props as as as a coach,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to you know, use my voice to
Speaker 1: help him out. He just continues to get looked over.
Speaker 1: And so the thing is going to happen is he's
Speaker 1: gonna be you know, fifty years old, never having a shot,
Speaker 1: you know, to run a run a run of defense
Speaker 1: and then ultimately maybe becoming head coach in the NFL.
Speaker 1: You know, if you look at my team, the Raiders,
Speaker 1: they just let their coordinator go and then they immediately
Speaker 1: go get a head coach that just got fired by
Speaker 1: another team and to be the defensive coordinator. You know,
Speaker 1: I sent I sent a you know text the group
Speaker 1: and hey, bring Joe in and at least interview him.
Speaker 1: And you know, when you when you can't get those
Speaker 1: things done and be able to vouch for guys and
Speaker 1: get him those opportunities, then they just continue to get
Speaker 1: looked over, you know. So I mean you just need
Speaker 1: you need some some coaches out there man to you know, hey,
Speaker 1: man step out on a limb, you know, and bring
Speaker 1: some of these guys in and eric b enemy that
Speaker 1: ain't stepping out on the limb that we we've seen.
Speaker 1: We've seen this track record and he's still not getting
Speaker 1: a job, which I don't understand that at all. So
Speaker 1: if they hire people to look like them at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, And I think the fact that
Speaker 1: they had to create a rule called the Rudy Rule
Speaker 1: to give minorities and the opportunity to really say something,
Speaker 1: and the fact that there's really been no follow up
Speaker 1: with that rule or enforce and enforcement of the rule,
Speaker 1: um is unfortunate. But like I said, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: not only good for scoring touchdowns, throwing touchdowns to getting interceptions.
Speaker 1: We can definitely lead teams and coach teams to you know,
Speaker 1: on the highest level as well. Yeah, no, no doubt.
Speaker 1: Like I said, just just just don't bring in your buddy.
Speaker 1: Just don't bring in uh, you know, somebody that that
Speaker 1: you knew along the way, you know, take a shot. Man.
Speaker 1: This this this game is this game is evolving, and
Speaker 1: you know, you need guys that know truly understand the
Speaker 1: game and can relate to players. Man. And I know
Speaker 1: Joe w is one of those guys. So that's why
Speaker 1: I always, you know, give him his process whenever I can.
Speaker 1: Best of luck to man, our man, Joe Witt and
Speaker 1: his opportunities and the journeys. Um born, Fremont, Ohio. What
Speaker 1: would your childhood like well with with sports prominted in
Speaker 1: your family, what drew you to sports? Yeah? Man, my
Speaker 1: my uh my mom has three kids. So older brother
Speaker 1: and older sister who were who I grew up with
Speaker 1: in my household. And both of them were My sister
Speaker 1: was in the track, volleyball, my brother was football, ran track, wrestle,
Speaker 1: and you know those were those were like my first
Speaker 1: you know, my childhood idols. And they were right there
Speaker 1: in the house. And uh you know they were they
Speaker 1: were they were beasts, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: I grew up in that environment of playing sports, and
Speaker 1: you know, playing playing everything, you know, football, basketball, baseball,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever whatever you could, whatever, what kind of
Speaker 1: ball you can put your hands on. Man, we was
Speaker 1: out there getting it done. You know. We meet up
Speaker 1: in the yard, man, everybody to get together player pick
Speaker 1: up games. So whether it was baseball or what, we
Speaker 1: were out there playing. Man. So I definitely grew up
Speaker 1: around sportsman, and um, you know figured out fairly well
Speaker 1: that I was pretty decent at what I was doing.
Speaker 1: So absolutely, when did football becomes serious to you? I
Speaker 1: would say, I think it was probably always serious. Um,
Speaker 1: I think when you know, when you're out there playing
Speaker 1: in the yard. You know, I was one of the
Speaker 1: kids that you know, they the older kids would bring
Speaker 1: me out, you know, in the neighborhood and they say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you come on, you're playing right. That says a lot though,
Speaker 1: because kids don't play outside the way I understand. When
Speaker 1: you get the older kids to vouch for you, they
Speaker 1: want you on your team. You're nice, especially if you're young.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's where I developed some of
Speaker 1: my moves as an offensive player, because the big dudes, man,
Speaker 1: they wasn't playing around. Man. You know, if I was
Speaker 1: gonna be out there, you know what I'm saying. If
Speaker 1: I was gonna be out there, man, you gotta take
Speaker 1: some of this pain. Man. So I was I was
Speaker 1: trying to get to that sidelining and get up that sideline.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Well, they're players or teams
Speaker 1: you grew up watching or or idolizing or trying to
Speaker 1: emulate as a youngster. I grew up watching you know,
Speaker 1: the Bengals, the browns Um. I was a big New
Speaker 1: York Giants fan um as a kid. And then as
Speaker 1: far as you know players, you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: other than my brother and sister, man Walton pay was
Speaker 1: that was That was the guy. That was the guy
Speaker 1: for me. You always tell people that, you know when
Speaker 1: I would be, you know, on the playground, and you
Speaker 1: know how kids are. Man, Hey, I'm just playing. I'm
Speaker 1: just playing. Walter Walter playing was the guy for me.
Speaker 1: Man like sweetness, you know, had the rules on and
Speaker 1: and and that that rules Kangaroo head band, little little
Speaker 1: Jerry curl or not. Man, See, I wondered because we
Speaker 1: had we had Dion. Dion said his Jerry Curl was dry.
Speaker 1: Still don't believe my wonder if Walter ship was wetter
Speaker 1: dry Walter ship, hold on, hold on, hold on, you
Speaker 1: gotta get dions quote correct. It was. It just looked, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was looking wet. It looked like, Hey, I'm just
Speaker 1: saying I'm just saying. I'm gonna say Walters was wet
Speaker 1: because he had the head band. You gotta keep you
Speaker 1: gotta keep that stuff about you, keep that ship out
Speaker 1: your eyes. Yeah, my dad used to play these little
Speaker 1: neighborhood games and he would have to have the towel
Speaker 1: around his workshirt so that ship didn't drip on this shirt.
Speaker 1: So his ship was always listening the Classic on the
Speaker 1: couch and everything. Man, what that ship was? What that's
Speaker 1: so glow glove? That was? I'm from Texas, bro So
Speaker 1: growing up, I think I'm two years older than be.
Speaker 1: Growing up, high school football is crazy, especially on Fridays,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? What was high school football
Speaker 1: like for you in Ohio? Yeah? Well, high school football
Speaker 1: in Ohio is one of those states. So you talk
Speaker 1: about Texas, you talk about California, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania like
Speaker 1: those those are the states man, and of course now
Speaker 1: you know Jersey and there's some other other states, but
Speaker 1: those those states there, man, high school football was everything,
Speaker 1: you know, and we you know, we we grew up
Speaker 1: under the you know, the Friday night lights and you know,
Speaker 1: you couldn't wait for Friday football. You know, the stadium
Speaker 1: was right in the middle of our small little town, man.
Speaker 1: And when it was time for them games, man, you
Speaker 1: people lined up down the street, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: get on the other side of that on the other
Speaker 1: side of that fence, you know, to get into the
Speaker 1: stands man, to watch football. Man. So football was it
Speaker 1: was it was the life life blood of our community,
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of other places. Man. And
Speaker 1: so like for me, you know, growing up and starting
Speaker 1: out playing the game, man, and watching my older brother
Speaker 1: play on Friday nights while I was still in middle school,
Speaker 1: I couldn't wait, you know, to get to high school
Speaker 1: and play in that environment. Man. So that that's that's
Speaker 1: that's a big part of growing up in my childhood
Speaker 1: is a football that's still to me. Obviously being able
Speaker 1: to play fifteen years in the NBA, Friday night football
Speaker 1: sticks out to me. Yeah, I mean that like that
Speaker 1: was the ship. It gives me chills even saying that,
Speaker 1: Like Friday night football games for everything, man, and that
Speaker 1: ship was the fun to me, that was the funniest.
Speaker 1: I love the NBA, don't get me wrong, have fun
Speaker 1: and cod but then there was nothing like them Friday
Speaker 1: night high school football games. Now because after you know,
Speaker 1: the game goes on and everybody's cheering, right, and then
Speaker 1: everybody's talking about, hey, what we're doing after the game.
Speaker 1: You know, we we're gonna meet up at get up
Speaker 1: at Burger King and sit out in the parking lot,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, especially when you got older
Speaker 1: and you can hang out. Man, that was that was
Speaker 1: the deal man. So we wasn't we wasn't going to
Speaker 1: burg King. The White boys had the kegs and I
Speaker 1: had to lead, and he was going to roll up
Speaker 1: and the joy. But I feel so very decorated. High
Speaker 1: school career, um USA today all American Mr Football, Ohio.
Speaker 1: What was your recruiting experience? Like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it came down to Ohio State in Michigan. You being
Speaker 1: from Ohio, How hard was it to turn down Ohio
Speaker 1: State and go to Michigan? Really? Not not hard at all.
Speaker 1: I mentioned my brother, my older brother was a big
Speaker 1: Michigan fan. And as as I said earlier, man, he
Speaker 1: was my first you know football, you know, childhood idol
Speaker 1: and something. For some reason, he fell in love with Michigan.
Speaker 1: And I was like, man, you like Michigan. I like Michigan,
Speaker 1: you know, And so when it came down and recruiting, um,
Speaker 1: I looked at Ohio State, the rival, you know. So
Speaker 1: it was like I'm not going to the rival, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I took my my college
Speaker 1: business to North of Dame and uh, the Miami, the Hurricanes,
Speaker 1: you know, down in South Florida. But but in my mind,
Speaker 1: I think I was just always a Wolverine, you know.
Speaker 1: So I mean I got of course letters from everywhere.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, Ohio State recruited me, but it was
Speaker 1: like that was one school and I just felt like, uh,
Speaker 1: that's why the rivalry to me is is so huge.
Speaker 1: Is because like that that determined where I went to school,
Speaker 1: that it was the rivalry, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So that's why it's it's so upsetting away our games
Speaker 1: have gone against them, you know, the last fifteen sixteen years.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Michigan was always you know, at the
Speaker 1: top of the list, and you know, when that opportunity came, man,
Speaker 1: it was like this, this is it. That's where I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be. So you were very talented running back and
Speaker 1: crossed over to dB at Michigan. Was that a tough transition?
Speaker 1: Did you want to play running back still or you
Speaker 1: were good with playing dB. That was a business decision.
Speaker 1: Man had issues with my knees as a running back,
Speaker 1: and then you know, every year, you know, my knees
Speaker 1: would um swell up. You know, there was times when
Speaker 1: I would have to you know, go get my knee
Speaker 1: drained before the game, and I was like, I was
Speaker 1: like yeah. I was like, I don't know if it
Speaker 1: would be able to you know, do this long term.
Speaker 1: And so I played. I played both sides and the
Speaker 1: ball played defense as well. So when it came time
Speaker 1: to go to college, I remember telling, you know, the
Speaker 1: my my recruiter at the time. You know, he was
Speaker 1: talking about getting me up there and you know, get
Speaker 1: me actlimated and talking about you know, me being an
Speaker 1: offensive weapon. I'm like, hey man, I'm gonna play defense.
Speaker 1: So he was like what really, Really, I was like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play defense, man. And um, you know part
Speaker 1: of part of that too was when you think about it,
Speaker 1: you guys mentioned Dion Dn was like, you know, the
Speaker 1: first defensive back that that really demanded. Hey man, y'all
Speaker 1: gotta pay me to come out here and do this thing.
Speaker 1: So then at that point, man, we was calling you
Speaker 1: baby Dean at Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't have to play offense or
Speaker 1: to get a big pay day in the NFL. I
Speaker 1: can go play defensive. So let me let me jump
Speaker 1: on the other side and let me try to have
Speaker 1: some longevity in the game and not have my knees
Speaker 1: toward up every week. And so that was that was
Speaker 1: the reason why I switched over there to the defensive side.
Speaker 1: So what was that experience like in Michigan? Obviously a
Speaker 1: historical program. Uh, you know, you guys went to a
Speaker 1: national championship or won a national championship. What was the
Speaker 1: experience of being a Wolverine life? Man? It was? It
Speaker 1: was It was lovely, man. I mean, this is this
Speaker 1: is the first time uh that you you know, kind
Speaker 1: of leave home and you're kind of you know, you
Speaker 1: you're your own man, you know you you know, you
Speaker 1: go up there. Of course we had to stay in
Speaker 1: the dorms in the first two years, um, but you're
Speaker 1: kind of making decisions on your own now, man, your
Speaker 1: mom ain and you know, telling you to come downstairs
Speaker 1: and get ready for this and that and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So it was a great experience to be around. You know,
Speaker 1: your class of freshman that are coming in, and all
Speaker 1: of you guys are basically just as kids, man, kind
Speaker 1: of navigating life, you know, kind of kind of learning
Speaker 1: the ropes man of you, kind of having that type
Speaker 1: of freedom. But then playing for a big time program.
Speaker 1: You know, the first time I ran out into the stadium,
Speaker 1: uh as as it. You know, we came out for
Speaker 1: warm ups and then when you come out for the
Speaker 1: actual game and it was full, Like, man, I lost
Speaker 1: my breath. Man, I was like, oh man, I'm in
Speaker 1: this thing. They're like, whoof you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So it was it was a great experience, man, and
Speaker 1: we did you know, eventually you get to that championship
Speaker 1: game my junior year, which really just capped it off. Man,
Speaker 1: just capt off a great experience. So I loved my
Speaker 1: time in inn Arbor, so big ten Freshman of the Year,
Speaker 1: sophomore year, you achieve All American honors, and then your
Speaker 1: junior year you pick up that heisman over Peyton Manning
Speaker 1: and get a chance to share the national championship with Nebraska.
Speaker 1: What was that final season? Like? It was crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: but I'll get to the championship part. But you know,
Speaker 1: coming off of my my sophomore year. You know, we
Speaker 1: we lost a couple of close games man, that we
Speaker 1: that I feel like we shouldn't have lost, and that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, people just really start, you know,
Speaker 1: crushing Michigan. And I remember one one sports commentator called
Speaker 1: us um they said to him and Michigan still for mediocre,
Speaker 1: And dude, you want to talk about you want to
Speaker 1: talk about burning? You want to talk about burning? Man.
Speaker 1: So I remember man going into that, uh to that season,
Speaker 1: and I just said to myself, you know what I'm
Speaker 1: about to show these guys, man, how how we gonna work,
Speaker 1: How we gonna work the entire offseason? Man? And so
Speaker 1: I just went out there, man, focus, and throughout throughout
Speaker 1: that season, I felt like everybody kind of you know,
Speaker 1: fed off what people were saying about us. But then
Speaker 1: at the same time, we went out there and put
Speaker 1: the work in and we end up, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: going undefeated. You know, come down to the our last
Speaker 1: game playing against you know, Ohio State, and need to
Speaker 1: get that win. And always felt like, man, I my
Speaker 1: my my college experience won't be fulfilled the right way
Speaker 1: if I don't go out without going to the Rose Bowl,
Speaker 1: you gotta go to the Rose Bowl, and so finally
Speaker 1: gotta come. I got to Man. So finally achieved that, Man,
Speaker 1: and got out there, played against Washington State, Man and
Speaker 1: got got a chance to hold that trophy up as
Speaker 1: a number one team in the country, man, and that
Speaker 1: was that was everything to me. It's to me, it's
Speaker 1: all about. All of the individual stuff I was able
Speaker 1: to achieve is great, but Man, when you can hold
Speaker 1: that trophy up man as the best team you know
Speaker 1: in the country, Man, that's to me, that's what it's
Speaker 1: all about. When you talk about making a business decision
Speaker 1: going to Michigan to play defense, and then you talk
Speaker 1: about all the ship y'all had to hear after your
Speaker 1: sophomore season, did that play into you wanted to get
Speaker 1: more involved on the offensive in your junior year being
Speaker 1: apart returner in the receiver at times. Yeah. So after
Speaker 1: my my freshman year, we had, uh two receivers um
Speaker 1: a money tumor. You guys do money and mercury hags
Speaker 1: and those who are starting receivers and those guys were leaving.
Speaker 1: So my my sophomore year, you know, I approached you know,
Speaker 1: the coach and I was like, you know what, we
Speaker 1: got two of our best guys leaving. Man, you might
Speaker 1: need a little help over there, man, but I'll go
Speaker 1: out on the outside. Man. You know what you think
Speaker 1: about be playing some receiver and uh, he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, let me think about it. So
Speaker 1: then it gave me a couple of plays in spring ball,
Speaker 1: and uh, I made you know, one one quick, like
Speaker 1: a little quick hitch and you know, made a guy
Speaker 1: missing up the sideline. I think the coach is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we we can do something with that. Man.
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, my my road increased just a
Speaker 1: little bit. You know, my junior year, made some timely
Speaker 1: plays on offense, but it was it was it was
Speaker 1: all to just help the team win. I just I
Speaker 1: just wanted to win the championship. Man, I don't care
Speaker 1: how I got it done. So you end up beating
Speaker 1: out Peyton Manning um for the Heisman that year, a
Speaker 1: rarely awarded that is that is awarded to the defense.
Speaker 1: How confident were you? I know, obviously winning is most important,
Speaker 1: but but but what was how was your confidence going
Speaker 1: into that Heisman situation? Knowing how good Peyton Manning was
Speaker 1: on the other side, of the ball, and the Heisman
Speaker 1: normally goes to an offensive no confidence, no confidence, you know,
Speaker 1: not that not that I now, I thought I should win.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you if you go back to
Speaker 1: that season and you, um, you go back to everything
Speaker 1: that was written or said about you know, Payton. I
Speaker 1: think he could have he could have left early, I
Speaker 1: believe and going to the NFL. But he came back
Speaker 1: for his senior year, and that was kind of what
Speaker 1: people were talking about. Oh, he's coming back to win
Speaker 1: the Heisman Trophy and basically it was his trophy at
Speaker 1: that point to lose, like he was gonna win it.
Speaker 1: And so every week it was it was paid Man
Speaker 1: and Payton Manning. Um. Kind of midway through then I
Speaker 1: started to pick up some traction, you know, as as
Speaker 1: being the best player in the country. Um. And I
Speaker 1: remember getting to New York and and I was sitting
Speaker 1: in um the car going to the hotel, and it
Speaker 1: was just this this huge, you know, four page article
Speaker 1: and picture of Peyton Man and I was like, god, man,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just gonna be up here. Yeah, I done, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be up here for a couple of days. Man.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's gonna be it. But you know,
Speaker 1: to be in that moment, and you know, sitting there,
Speaker 1: you know, in that panel, I got my man Randy
Speaker 1: Moss to my right, you know, paging and Ryan Leaf
Speaker 1: and you know, I always, you know, share this story
Speaker 1: that you know they said my name. You know, um
Speaker 1: uh the guy's name was Rudy Riska. You know, he's
Speaker 1: like from Michigan, and you know I heard it and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know, my mind is turning.
Speaker 1: It's happening all fast, but in my mind is like
Speaker 1: slow motion, like did he say? Did he say from Michigan?
Speaker 1: And uh, Randy's on my right, and Randy just he
Speaker 1: kind of gave me a nudge, man like get up.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, snap, man, I just wouldn't. I
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is what's up? Man. So I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a speech prepared, man, none of that. Man.
Speaker 1: I just got to get up there and wing it.
Speaker 1: But to think, you know what I mean, the dB
Speaker 1: took it from Randy ya credible, Peyton Manning who was incredible,
Speaker 1: and Ryan Lepho was a great college player. For dB
Speaker 1: to get that award, that's huge. Yeah, don't happen. Man,
Speaker 1: only one, It's only one, baby, It's only one, right,
Speaker 1: the fourth pick to the Oakland Raiders. What was that experience? Like?
Speaker 1: It was great. You know, I got to get a
Speaker 1: chance to go, you know, to the draft, you know,
Speaker 1: bring your family up there. Um, you know, it was
Speaker 1: you know, everybody was saying that, you know, I was
Speaker 1: gonna be, you know, the fourth pig to the Raiders.
Speaker 1: But then there was you know, there was some rumblings
Speaker 1: that maybe the Raiders might trade out of it, and
Speaker 1: so then all of a sudden, at the last minute,
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, oh, man, I could I could
Speaker 1: I could actually be sitting here for a while. The
Speaker 1: Raiders don't pick me at four, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But boom, you get that call, man, and that wait
Speaker 1: in that green room, and uh, I mean it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't even know how you explain that, man,
Speaker 1: because you know, you grew up watching, you know, the NFL,
Speaker 1: and you know, hoping one day maybe you get a
Speaker 1: chance to play it in all of us, and you
Speaker 1: get that call and it's like it's solidified, like, man, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you're going into the NFL, you know, And so to
Speaker 1: be able to get drafted by you know, a story franchise,
Speaker 1: you know, Al Davis, the Silver and Black, you know,
Speaker 1: the Oakland Raiders, Tim Brown, Howie Long. Willie Brown was like,
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't really know you know the
Speaker 1: history at this point, like like I do now, but
Speaker 1: you know, once I got in there and kind of
Speaker 1: got you know, immersed in it, it was like, Man,
Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm a I'm a Raider, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? So yeah, man, So what was that experience?
Speaker 1: Like Jack and I got a chance to That's where
Speaker 1: you know, Jack and obviously knew each other playing, but
Speaker 1: we became brothers when we played in Oakland together for
Speaker 1: the Warriors. Talk to us about what that city was like,
Speaker 1: an energy around the town because sports is everything to
Speaker 1: the fans. Yeah, man, that town love is deep, man.
Speaker 1: That the town love is deep, man. And they absolutely
Speaker 1: loved the Oakland Raiders. Man. And there's there's there's a
Speaker 1: you know, there's a like you said, you guys played there, man,
Speaker 1: So there's a there's an energy there, um that you
Speaker 1: just don't catch a lot of other places. Man. You
Speaker 1: know when you when you walk into that stadium, man
Speaker 1: on game day and you know, you see the silver
Speaker 1: and black, you see the black hole. You know, you
Speaker 1: see them guys, you see the fans in the stands
Speaker 1: man ready to root their team. Oh man, it's like
Speaker 1: you can yeah yeah, yeah, yeah they will, they will,
Speaker 1: you know, we we will come out of games man
Speaker 1: and they say, hey, man, something happened to Buddy in
Speaker 1: the bathroom, and we'll be like they're getting down right.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of they came to down as the
Speaker 1: years went on. But man, when hey, when I got there, Man,
Speaker 1: don't don't come in there, man with that other jersey
Speaker 1: on talking slip. Sometimes you ain't even gotta talk. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you just gotta have that. It could be it could
Speaker 1: be the wrong day, straight up. Any crazy stories you
Speaker 1: remember from your time kind of either on or off
Speaker 1: the field that we're just like, yo, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is what the NFL is like. Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: think probably like just off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: like you know, being being you know, going on the
Speaker 1: way games. You know, everybody, you know, you brought your
Speaker 1: you know, your favorite beverage, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: And a lot of times, a lot of times coming
Speaker 1: home from them games man, you know, when when it
Speaker 1: gets the flowing. You know, a lot of those real
Speaker 1: emotions come out, man. And you know times when guys
Speaker 1: was getting heated on the plane. Man, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: man to step off that bus back at the facilities,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, these cats in the NFL ain't
Speaker 1: playing around, you know what I mean? So so yeah
Speaker 1: that they the NFL man to get real on you.
Speaker 1: We have some crazy uh returning to Oakland story. Remember
Speaker 1: remember that time we was going to my place, Jacket
Speaker 1: and uh, we was in my truck and Beaty was
Speaker 1: talking about who's riding with us? Yeah, yeah, and he
Speaker 1: blew my mind when he said Biggie he said, he said,
Speaker 1: he said, big what's cheering for us? And when he
Speaker 1: was getting off the elebody, he said, yeah a stack
Speaker 1: park two. Come on, hey, this is when this this
Speaker 1: is we was making our we believe. I gotta just
Speaker 1: a random mass story. So I remember my freshman year
Speaker 1: in u c l A. Was night and you came
Speaker 1: to u c l A. And he was working with
Speaker 1: bad and I happened to just go over Beata's house
Speaker 1: this one this one time, and I come in and
Speaker 1: I fanned out like I saw you, and then I
Speaker 1: backed away for a little bit. I said, does that
Speaker 1: motherfucking Charles, what's something there? Sitting on Baron's couch? Like,
Speaker 1: I tripped out because I'm a huge, huge football fan
Speaker 1: and came in and you was kicking and you was
Speaker 1: cool as a fan man, just quiet to yourself, but
Speaker 1: just a real cool dude. So I remember meeting you
Speaker 1: my freshman year at u c l A because you
Speaker 1: was kicking it with bearn. But you know, we got
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy ass Baron David stories, but we'll
Speaker 1: save those. Remember that story, man, Yeah, no, that was crazy.
Speaker 1: So you win Defensive Rookie of the Year Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: soon after all Pro playing sixteen years, there's I guess
Speaker 1: it's more in the NBA now, is that this management
Speaker 1: and we kind of you know, we resting all this up.
Speaker 1: But for you to consistently play sixteen games every season
Speaker 1: in such a physical sport, I mean, we just got
Speaker 1: to commend you for that, man, because that that ship
Speaker 1: is tough to do. You know, we play basketball, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit physical, but to be out there every
Speaker 1: single day and suit up as a football player, man,
Speaker 1: that that that that that's that's tough to do. You know,
Speaker 1: it's It's It's funny you say that because you know,
Speaker 1: I sit back I watched games now, or if I'm
Speaker 1: at a game and I'm on the sideline and you know,
Speaker 1: guys are out there giving it everything they've gotten. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a tackle that's near you, and
Speaker 1: I can I can hear the contact, I see the
Speaker 1: physicalness of the game. And I sit there and I
Speaker 1: think to myself, Man, how in the hell did you
Speaker 1: do this for so long? You know, getting up every week, man,
Speaker 1: you know, practice and you know, playing on Sundays and
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, you you know, you get up on
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, you're still feeling last Sunday, you know, um,
Speaker 1: and the one thing that gets you through, you know,
Speaker 1: going back to the fans and walking out into the
Speaker 1: walking out into the stadium. Like once you get out
Speaker 1: there into that stadium, man, sometimes that energy from the
Speaker 1: crowd hits you, man, and that's you That's what you need,
Speaker 1: you know. Otherwise, man, you'll be trying to stay back
Speaker 1: in the in the hotel room and sleep it off.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's a tough game, man, But you
Speaker 1: know what, when you love it, you know, and you
Speaker 1: you you're fighting for a chance to win the championship. Man,
Speaker 1: you'll run through a wall? Can you really quit? Kind
Speaker 1: of walk us through because like I said to me,
Speaker 1: being a fan of the game, my brother getting a
Speaker 1: chance to play some semi pro football. What's your week
Speaker 1: is like? Because your guys bodies are really beat up
Speaker 1: and like you just said, without that adrenaline sometimes ship
Speaker 1: you don't know where you would be. So what is
Speaker 1: your routine? So if you play on Sunday, walk us
Speaker 1: through the week leading up to the following Sunday games over.
Speaker 1: You know, now it's on to the next opponent. But
Speaker 1: what you're doing is on that Monday, you're going and
Speaker 1: you'll watch film of the game you just played, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of go over. Um. You know, any corrections that
Speaker 1: that the coaches have seen, you know, they'll give you
Speaker 1: a grade, you know, as far as how you perform,
Speaker 1: whether or not you missed any assignment. So you I
Speaker 1: have some if you got a bunch of red checkmarks on,
Speaker 1: it's like school, your ads had a bad day. Um.
Speaker 1: So then you know, after that, either either before or
Speaker 1: after that, you know, you get your workout in, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, try to you know, just trying to work
Speaker 1: through everything man and keep yourself mobile. And then uh,
Speaker 1: you know after that, you know, usually mondy usually Tuesdays
Speaker 1: or your days off, So between Monday and Tuesday you're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out, you know, when you're gonna try
Speaker 1: to get your massage in and all that stuff man,
Speaker 1: and try to you know, work some of that stuff out. Wednesdays,
Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays are your long practice. Usually Wednesdays are
Speaker 1: you know, first and you go over first and second down. Um,
Speaker 1: so that that day is gonna be long. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get out of there maybe five, you know, five thirty
Speaker 1: or so. Um, Thursday is gonna kind of be the
Speaker 1: same thing. You're gonna go over your third down and
Speaker 1: then you know, kind of marry some some some red
Speaker 1: zone which will have on Friday, and then some still
Speaker 1: some first and second down stuff, but it's mainly you know,
Speaker 1: you focus on that third down and trying to get
Speaker 1: off the football field. So that's gonna be another long
Speaker 1: day five five thirty. Then Friday row around, Uh, Friday,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go over red zone. You know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be more of a walk through tempo for portions of it,
Speaker 1: and then you'll get into uh really some some game
Speaker 1: management type stuff. Uh so, but it's a shorter day.
Speaker 1: You know, you probably get out of there. You know,
Speaker 1: everything will be done probably one thirty two o'clock on Saturday.
Speaker 1: You're gonna walk through in the morning, you know, meet
Speaker 1: you know, watching films. It's gonna be pretty light. And
Speaker 1: then uh uh Saturday night you meet up at the
Speaker 1: hotel and you also you go through your individual meetings,
Speaker 1: uh team meeting, you know, uh pregame or nightly before
Speaker 1: the game, meal or whatnot. Curfew at eleven and then man,
Speaker 1: you're back at it again on Sunday, ready to roll.
Speaker 1: Let me touch on that that that curfew because you know,
Speaker 1: as basketball players, we didn't have the I guess maybe
Speaker 1: the the structure from a standpoint, and you guys are
Speaker 1: really in there all day. When you go at facility,
Speaker 1: you in there in the morning and like you said,
Speaker 1: five thirty, you know, like a real like a real
Speaker 1: work yeah nine if I know, Yeah, yeah, we're going there.
Speaker 1: We get our extra shots, we watch film, we get stretched,
Speaker 1: we left, we do all that ship we practice. We're
Speaker 1: still out of there and no more than three hours sometimes,
Speaker 1: but Nellie, we mother be at the end and out
Speaker 1: that bitch in forty five minutes sometimes. But to have
Speaker 1: that kind of like curfew, And did you guys have roommates?
Speaker 1: It was that only for the players that weren't like superstars.
Speaker 1: How did that ship work? Some guys like the room
Speaker 1: on the road. Um, I had my own room when
Speaker 1: you first came in, like rookie, I think rookies second
Speaker 1: year of players, you had to have a roommate. But
Speaker 1: if you if you older in the game, you stay
Speaker 1: in the room by yourself. So yeah, okay, I couldn't
Speaker 1: imagine having no ruck. Couldn't get nothing off on the
Speaker 1: road right now. I couldn't have done that spen speaking
Speaker 1: of y'all, man, I know, I know y'all don't have curfew.
Speaker 1: I lived in Atlanta for about eight years. Man, I remember, man,
Speaker 1: so you've seen Jack an, I've seen Jack, seen Jack
Speaker 1: a few times. I've seen him a few times, man.
Speaker 1: And uh, I remember being out one night. Man, it's
Speaker 1: it's five six and on it. Man, I see my man, hey,
Speaker 1: hey eyes out there and you know, at the club, man,
Speaker 1: and like, damn this man, how's he got a game tomorrow? Man? Man? Hey,
Speaker 1: I got out there and gave the people forty or
Speaker 1: five points. Man, I said, she, well, you know what
Speaker 1: he's doing. You know what he's doing. Some of us
Speaker 1: canna do it because I always wanted that I would
Speaker 1: hear the curfew out here, the roommates, and then you
Speaker 1: are on the flip side with us, you know, that
Speaker 1: whole Warrior team. We would be out till the sun
Speaker 1: came up sometimes and still have a game that night,
Speaker 1: and still went hard the whole night. Like I said,
Speaker 1: it was just so much different to where, like I said,
Speaker 1: the Strug, not that we were we were actually while,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying as far as the structure and the
Speaker 1: rules and the regulations, we didn't have that kind of ship.
Speaker 1: You know. Once we got to the league, it was like,
Speaker 1: like you say, like you're real, like you really so
Speaker 1: everything you on your own, doing whatever you gotta do,
Speaker 1: and some people can handle in. Some came right right
Speaker 1: and and to really, I mean, I think that freedom,
Speaker 1: that leash that they give you. Some of fucker's hating themselves.
Speaker 1: But because like you said, if you can't you out
Speaker 1: here doing whatever and you're not perform them and on
Speaker 1: Sunday or when the ball goes up at seven for us.
Speaker 1: You hanging yourself, no doubt about it. Talk about you
Speaker 1: was able to turn that that that a leash into
Speaker 1: a motherfucking gold change jack assholes that cash. So what
Speaker 1: what was it like you as a player evolving into
Speaker 1: the one of the best defensive players of the game,
Speaker 1: your team evolving into a contender all why under John
Speaker 1: gruten Yeah, man, it's it's really to me, it's about experience.
Speaker 1: You know, the more you play, um, I think, the
Speaker 1: better you get, the more understanding of the game, the
Speaker 1: more time you in certain situations, the better you get,
Speaker 1: the more times you see things, the better you get. Um.
Speaker 1: So I just you know, as a player, you know,
Speaker 1: being able to come in as a rookie and start
Speaker 1: and play sixteen games, I felt like, I feel like
Speaker 1: for any player, man, from your first year to your
Speaker 1: second year, it should be your biggest your biggest jump
Speaker 1: if you're able to play, you know, sixteen games. So, um,
Speaker 1: I was thrown into the fire, you know, in the NFL, man,
Speaker 1: and which was great for me because I wanted to
Speaker 1: be out there anyway. But we we we built the
Speaker 1: team man Grouten and um you know, our gym and
Speaker 1: everything they started building building that contender, you know, bringing
Speaker 1: in some pieces, you know, and putting them in the
Speaker 1: right places. You know. We were a veteran team, you
Speaker 1: know that. So we had Tim Brown who was there
Speaker 1: when I already got there. Then Jerry Rice came outside
Speaker 1: linebacker named William Thomas, and you know, Eric Allen was there.
Speaker 1: So we had some veteran guys. And then we added
Speaker 1: some pieces man that you know, got us to to
Speaker 1: being a contender in the league. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I was around some some guys man, like some real lives,
Speaker 1: you know, legends man, Eric Turner, Eric Allen, you know.
Speaker 1: Then rich Gannon came in and so I was, I
Speaker 1: was Jerry right, man, come on, man, Charlie Garner, my boy,
Speaker 1: Charlie Man. So I as yeah, man, So I had
Speaker 1: some real that has some real dudes. I felt like
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but get better. So in two thousand,
Speaker 1: uh twelve and fourth season, you guys losing the a
Speaker 1: f C Championship to the Ravens two thousand one, you
Speaker 1: guys go ten and six meat the Jets in the
Speaker 1: wild card go to New England two thousand. Tell me
Speaker 1: what you remember about this day, because I remember it
Speaker 1: was crazy I don't know where we're at, but we
Speaker 1: were walking through the airport and we caught the end
Speaker 1: of this game. January nine two two Raiders at the
Speaker 1: Patriots the snow game and where a new rule was
Speaker 1: created on the fly because of a bullshit call. Talked
Speaker 1: to us about what happened, Uh, that particular play with
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, which eventually led them to go on to
Speaker 1: win their first Super Yeah, they pulled that thing out
Speaker 1: of thin air. Man. Uh, but you know, I just remember, um.
Speaker 1: You know, they called a blitz. You know, I was,
Speaker 1: I was playing it on the on the inside. I
Speaker 1: was playing nickel. They called a blitz and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm coming off that that left side. He don't see
Speaker 1: me coming, you know, he don't he don't know him coming.
Speaker 1: And I could see him, you know, bring that ball
Speaker 1: this way because he was about to throw it, and
Speaker 1: then he brought it back. And right as he was
Speaker 1: bringing that thing back, boom, I'm slapping the ball. Now
Speaker 1: the game The game is over, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Because there was a think a minute and fifty two
Speaker 1: seconds left or some something crazy like that, and all
Speaker 1: we had to do was kneel on the ball. And
Speaker 1: we're gonna run the clock out, boom, game over. We
Speaker 1: move on. I think we would have played Pittsburgh and
Speaker 1: we had our shot at U you know, getting to
Speaker 1: the super Bowl at that point. And so we get
Speaker 1: to the sideline and and they say it's under two minutes.
Speaker 1: So then it's a it's a booth review, right automatic,
Speaker 1: and so but we're like, it's so fun. But what
Speaker 1: they're looking at it, what they're looking at it anywhere,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so it seemed like
Speaker 1: it took a lifetime for them to come back with
Speaker 1: a decision. So we're all sitting on the sideline like
Speaker 1: what what would be taking so long? The man FROMB
Speaker 1: with the ball and not the ball out we recovered
Speaker 1: like game over. And so he comes back, you know
Speaker 1: with the quarterback's hand was going forward, you know, tug rule,
Speaker 1: and so man, you could have you could have you
Speaker 1: could have you could have pushed me over, man with
Speaker 1: with with your with with your index finger. Man just
Speaker 1: just pushed me down. Man, you talk about you're talking
Speaker 1: about the sideline deflated. Man, You guys play sports, man,
Speaker 1: you know how you know how momentum uh affects your team,
Speaker 1: whether you have it or if you don't have it,
Speaker 1: and it just man, it just family crushes, man. And
Speaker 1: so they end up going down and believe you know,
Speaker 1: kicking the field goal, tying tying it up, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, now went overtime, and we're I'll
Speaker 1: be honest, man, I think we're still trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how are we in overtime? You know? Man, this game,
Speaker 1: this game ships been over. And then they drove down
Speaker 1: far enough and kick a field goal um to win
Speaker 1: the game. Man. And that was that. Man. I just
Speaker 1: I was devastating. I was hurt, you know. I think
Speaker 1: when you know it, man, when you put when you
Speaker 1: put your heart and soul into something and you feel
Speaker 1: like he gets taken from you, like not faring squarely,
Speaker 1: like not just not just head up. Man, that hurts. Man.
Speaker 1: That's the worst part, especially for you guys because you
Speaker 1: guys don't play as many games as us. But anytime,
Speaker 1: like you said, you put everything into it and it's
Speaker 1: and it's out of your hands, it's taken from like
Speaker 1: you lose, you lose a game. That ship is hard
Speaker 1: to swallow. But when that ship is taken from you
Speaker 1: with the with with with the circumstances that were on
Speaker 1: the line for you guys in that particular game. And
Speaker 1: like I said, I remember being in the airport. We
Speaker 1: were at U C. L A, and we're come. We
Speaker 1: had just finished the game, maybe in Arizona, so that
Speaker 1: like the whole little terminal was watching this motherfucking game
Speaker 1: and everyone's like what wait, wait, what just they what?
Speaker 1: They gave him the ball back? Like we were all
Speaker 1: trimmling out, like how did that happen? But that had
Speaker 1: to be tough, man, And like I said, that was
Speaker 1: the first time they get a chance to go on
Speaker 1: and get their first Super Bowl. So two thousand two, Um,
Speaker 1: Gruden moves on to Tampa Bay. How did that go down?
Speaker 1: Did you have any sense that you know, there was
Speaker 1: there was some rumblings in the front office between him
Speaker 1: and the front office or was it a random move?
Speaker 1: What happened? Yeah? I mean I don't, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I still don't really truly understand how it went down.
Speaker 1: But I remember I think I was I think I
Speaker 1: was at home, Um, and somebody gave me a car.
Speaker 1: They were like, hey, uh you your team just traded
Speaker 1: gihn Grouten to to Tampa and and uh, I was
Speaker 1: like traded. I was like, you can't. You can't trade
Speaker 1: a coach, you know what I'm saying, Like like that
Speaker 1: was that was so foreign to me, Like they traded
Speaker 1: John grow And I was like, I don't even know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I don't even understand that. And
Speaker 1: so then all of a sudden, man, you know, you get,
Speaker 1: you get. You go over to the facilities like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: Groom is gone, Like what the like, we just we
Speaker 1: just we got a good team. We just got beat
Speaker 1: by such and such, you know, so we're basically gonna
Speaker 1: have the same team coming back, and you trade the coach,
Speaker 1: come on, man. So that was that was just uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, that was straight out of the Twilight zone. Man.
Speaker 1: I still don't quite understand. Man, what what may al
Speaker 1: at that time say, you know, let's let's trade Grooden.
Speaker 1: And then after that, man, we went to the Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: played Grooden in the Super Bowl, and we know how
Speaker 1: that went down. Man, it got everly for us out there,
Speaker 1: but it was it was tough. But talk to us
Speaker 1: about that though, because I mean in two thousand two
Speaker 1: when he left, that was the first time you used
Speaker 1: to stay in. Your first real injury, you had a
Speaker 1: shoulder injury that you know had you missed eight games,
Speaker 1: also the leg injury. You come back, You guys win
Speaker 1: the a f C. You guys are facing your former
Speaker 1: coach the very next year in the Super Bowl. What
Speaker 1: went wrong that week? I remember you're sending what was
Speaker 1: the baron Robinson Center was in Mexico or some ship?
Speaker 1: So like, what what did you feel the energy was
Speaker 1: off for? You? Feel like you guys were all the
Speaker 1: way locked in um for that particular matchup. Or was
Speaker 1: the energy off? And that Tampa Bay defense was a problem.
Speaker 1: Now tele based defense was good, but we felt like
Speaker 1: we had the team that could beat him. But we
Speaker 1: we feel, you know a lot of us feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, our game plan ended up. You know, our
Speaker 1: coach at the time ended up switching the game plan,
Speaker 1: you know, last minute, and it really takes you to
Speaker 1: you know, talk to Tim Brown who played on the
Speaker 1: offense and kind of right, get in get into the
Speaker 1: details of that. But yeah, Bary Robbins later in the
Speaker 1: week ended up. Um, you know, I don't know where
Speaker 1: he I don't know where he was, you know, but
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you hear these whispers. Hey man,
Speaker 1: Baron Robbins is missing. Now, Barry Robbins, people don't really remember.
Speaker 1: He's probably he's probably the best center in football, and
Speaker 1: now that's facts. I probably best center in football. And
Speaker 1: so to lose him, you know, it hurt. But as
Speaker 1: long as we were able to if we would have
Speaker 1: stuck to our game plan, I think we would have
Speaker 1: been fine. So when we get out to that game,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of what we did offensively was
Speaker 1: to the outside. What Tampa Bay runs Tampa two, So
Speaker 1: you can't you're not gonna beat them to the sideline.
Speaker 1: Were running because they are fast defense. Derek Brooks in
Speaker 1: the middle east sideline, the sideline, sapping them. Boys, they coming.
Speaker 1: You have to really attack them, like up the middle,
Speaker 1: and we waited way too late. And late in the
Speaker 1: game we scored, you know a couple of touchdowns by
Speaker 1: hitting them up the middle of the field, but it
Speaker 1: was too late. We had thrown two interceptions. By that time,
Speaker 1: they had ran maybe two interceptions back for touchdowns. Something crazy.
Speaker 1: Then they scored another one on defense. Before you know it, man,
Speaker 1: we were down twenty one points and something crazy. I
Speaker 1: remember that because that to yeall won the NBA Championship,
Speaker 1: and I remember celebrating with Tampa Bay and I was
Speaker 1: looking at their defense. Bro. That's why I said that
Speaker 1: Warren Sapp, David dig Brooks, McFarland, they had some animals
Speaker 1: on their defense. Bro. Yeah, it was fast, tast flowing defense. Man.
Speaker 1: Take that away from See. I thought the Raiders had
Speaker 1: the offense though they had Rich Getting, they had the receivers.
Speaker 1: Had you still had Garner? Didn't you garner that Wheatley? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought, I see that's what I thought. Like I said,
Speaker 1: they had a hell of a defense, but I thought
Speaker 1: that offense matched up well with them, you know, well
Speaker 1: enough to beat them. But you know, it happened. So
Speaker 1: the next three seasons kind of go up in the air,
Speaker 1: riddled the injury. You signed a seven year deal with
Speaker 1: Green Bay. Was that a tough decision the Raiders or
Speaker 1: was the time you felt like your time was up
Speaker 1: to make a move. Yeah? They the Raiders had franchised
Speaker 1: me twice. Um at that point and then after that
Speaker 1: scene with your money, playing with your money, and then
Speaker 1: after that season, um, I believe I forget who the
Speaker 1: GM was at the time. I think he made a
Speaker 1: statement that you know, there was no value of bringing
Speaker 1: me back to the Raiders. So it was like, all right,
Speaker 1: well the rights on the wall. I got to get
Speaker 1: up out of here. So that offseason, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: a free agent and uh, you know I was. I
Speaker 1: was trying to get to Tampa because Groom was there, right,
Speaker 1: so he's my coach. I'm trying to get to Tampa. Uh.
Speaker 1: That didn't work out. So then it was Jacksonville had
Speaker 1: a great defense. I was then I was My focus
Speaker 1: was on Jacksonville. They said they didn't need a corner,
Speaker 1: like damn. Uh. So then you know, I'm trying for
Speaker 1: for a few other teams and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, green Bay start reaching out. Um, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was very reluctant. You know, I've never had any
Speaker 1: plans on going to green Bay. But green Bay they
Speaker 1: made the effort, and uh, you know, they made an
Speaker 1: offer that it was like, hey, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I want to I know, I want to play football,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And they made me a
Speaker 1: great offer. It was like, all right, well, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm going to Green Bay and see what happens. And
Speaker 1: then you know, I got there, man, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, people start trying me out there
Speaker 1: on the field, and then the interceptions start rolling in. Man,
Speaker 1: it was it was all good from there. So we
Speaker 1: wanted to know what was it like. You know, obviously
Speaker 1: Lambeau was a historic field. There's so much tradition to history.
Speaker 1: As cold as a motherfucker out there. What was it
Speaker 1: like playing like called the Lambeau your homes. It's interesting
Speaker 1: because we talked about growing up in my hometown and
Speaker 1: you know, having the stadium kind of being right in
Speaker 1: the center of the community. That's the way Green Bay was,
Speaker 1: and so it kind of felt like, you know, growing up,
Speaker 1: it felt like you know that Friday night light, this
Speaker 1: type of field, you know what I mean when you know,
Speaker 1: the families got together and you walked to the football
Speaker 1: game and tell five dollar tail gating signs and people's
Speaker 1: driveway you need to park, you park right here, you
Speaker 1: walk to the game, and you know, til gating was
Speaker 1: was live and uh, you know, I remember, um, they
Speaker 1: have a team scrimmage every year and I remember going
Speaker 1: to this scrimmage. This this is you know, in training
Speaker 1: camp and it was seventy two thousand people there for
Speaker 1: the scrimmage, and we didn't even we didn't even really going.
Speaker 1: We ain't going really live live. I mean it's live,
Speaker 1: but it ain't. I was like, oh, man, okay, this
Speaker 1: is this, this this is cool, right, ain't there meet
Speaker 1: up meet up at the game? Man? Yeah? So um
Speaker 1: so yeah man, it ended up, um, you know, being
Speaker 1: a great experience. It took me a while to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, get acclimated to it, you know, because I
Speaker 1: was reluctant to go there. Um. But once I just
Speaker 1: got got there, you know, kind of settled down and
Speaker 1: started making plays. Um had some young guys with me, man,
Speaker 1: some young dogs you know back there in the secondary
Speaker 1: who um was out there making plays too. So then
Speaker 1: we just started having fun, man. And so that's that
Speaker 1: to me, Man, it made all the difference, you know,
Speaker 1: settling down in the community and then having fun on
Speaker 1: the football field. Man. It was all good from there, absolutely.
Speaker 1: So like you said, your first year, they thought you
Speaker 1: had lost a step and you had to funk around
Speaker 1: and lead the league and intersect pans where eight interceptions
Speaker 1: that had to what was that feeling like? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, had had battled a little bit go
Speaker 1: to a place you're really sure with, but once you
Speaker 1: got your footing, you come out like like nothing could changed.
Speaker 1: Was it was that refreshing obviously to kind of let
Speaker 1: you know, okay, let's go, we're here. Yeah. I was
Speaker 1: like que man messed around and hit a triple double
Speaker 1: on him, you know what I mean? Uh, you know
Speaker 1: you I had to hear. I had to hear all
Speaker 1: of the talk. You know. Of course, you know I
Speaker 1: did have some injuries, like you mentioned, but everybody was
Speaker 1: talking about, hey, you know, he's lost the step. And
Speaker 1: I remember one one, uh, like I forget what it was.
Speaker 1: Magazine had me raided like the two hundred something player
Speaker 1: in the league, and that reminded me of the mediocre Michigan.
Speaker 1: So I was like, man, we can't have that. We
Speaker 1: can't have that on my have that on my name, man.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, the competition, as far as I
Speaker 1: was talking about the young fellas on the team, man,
Speaker 1: we like really started competing man in practice, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was trying to let these guys know, Man, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, when you get out on the field, man,
Speaker 1: you're gonna see everything you saw on film. And let's
Speaker 1: start getting this ball. So we started having a lot
Speaker 1: of competition and it just made the game fun. And
Speaker 1: so we just continue to get better and better as
Speaker 1: a group. Um and I played with you know, um
Speaker 1: Brett Farr was there at first. So my second year there,
Speaker 1: you know, we make it to the championship game, you know,
Speaker 1: end up losing to the Giants, but you know, we
Speaker 1: knew we had good players, you know on that team man,
Speaker 1: to where we were going to be competitive. That's definitely
Speaker 1: what the next thing I was gonna ask you was
Speaker 1: seeing kind of the end for Brett Farr. Who was
Speaker 1: you know at the time there everything, Uh, did you
Speaker 1: see what I guess the coachings have starred in Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: no question and no question, no question. I think we
Speaker 1: we we all knew it. Man. I think the one
Speaker 1: thing was too it was like, you know Brett, Uh
Speaker 1: for those couple of years, you know, he didn't know
Speaker 1: if he was coming back or not coming back. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so everybody was kind of you know figured out that,
Speaker 1: you know, what was gonna do. But in the back
Speaker 1: of our mind we were like if he if he leaves,
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna be all right, man, because we
Speaker 1: we gotta do it over there that's sitting behind him. Man,
Speaker 1: they can chuck that thing around. Man. And he had
Speaker 1: I mean you talked about a live arm and throwing
Speaker 1: on throwing throwing dimes on the run and accurate as ever. Man.
Speaker 1: We definitely, we definitely saw it. What was the dynamic
Speaker 1: like between what what was there? Was it smooth or
Speaker 1: what was that dynamic light between Farv and Rogers? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think those two had their had their friction early on.
Speaker 1: I think when you look at uh, I remember a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago when um, the Steelers brought in
Speaker 1: a backup of Ben Roethlisberger and he was mad because
Speaker 1: they brought in the backup. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey man, I'm still here. Why we don't
Speaker 1: need a backup quarterback? Um? I think they I think
Speaker 1: they had that dynamic and I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Brett took a little bit of offense to that. I
Speaker 1: think Brett said something along the lines of, you know,
Speaker 1: he don't need to, you know, help the next guy. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that you bring in. You know his thought was, Man,
Speaker 1: I'm the quarterback, you brought him in, You help him,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Um? So you didn't like
Speaker 1: for me, you know, being on the defensive side, you
Speaker 1: really don't see all that goes on with those guys
Speaker 1: because they have their meetings or whatnot. But I know
Speaker 1: they did have, you know, a rocky start, which I
Speaker 1: think since then have kind of mended those, uh those problems.
Speaker 1: M h yeah, I mean it happens. So is Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers first season two thousand and eight. That's his first year,
Speaker 1: so there's no playoffs that year. Uh oh nine, you guys,
Speaker 1: uh losing the wild card to the Cardinals two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten. The road to the super Bowl at ten
Speaker 1: and sixth season, but get hot at the right time.
Speaker 1: You guys beat the Eagles in the wild card, Falcons
Speaker 1: in the division uh NFC championship, you beat the Bears,
Speaker 1: and then you face the Steelers in the super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about your second time around in the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. What's the second time around like for you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I finally got back, man. You know, it's hard to
Speaker 1: get there. That's that's what I learned. She's already to
Speaker 1: get to that super Bowl. Um, but you know, we
Speaker 1: were coming off a season you mentioned two thousand nine
Speaker 1: that was our best team actually, uh and we we
Speaker 1: screwed that off in the playoffs against Arizona. But we
Speaker 1: came back you know that next season, man, knowing that,
Speaker 1: you know, we had basically the same players. Man, we
Speaker 1: we got to get it done this particular season. And
Speaker 1: then it was crazy is that throughout that season, injury
Speaker 1: after injury hit that team. Man, we end up having
Speaker 1: six team players. I think it was on I R.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about some dogs. You guys know, Jamachael Finley.
Speaker 1: Jamachael Finley was our tight end man. He was a
Speaker 1: matchup nightmare for people. Uh, he ended up getting hurt.
Speaker 1: So we had some real dogs that got hurt. Um,
Speaker 1: And so we kind of we kind of limped along
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, through the season. And I
Speaker 1: remember we had to win our last two games just
Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to get in. But then we
Speaker 1: also needed some help. So what was crazy is that? Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember that punt return
Speaker 1: that de Sean Jackson ran back against Jackson. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: we needed them to win that game and they won
Speaker 1: the game. Of course, we had to win our two,
Speaker 1: but in that pump return was fucking it. He took
Speaker 1: off and yeah, you know, so I mean this this
Speaker 1: this game is crazy that way, and so we kind
Speaker 1: of we kind of you know, but we go in.
Speaker 1: We lived through the season, but we go into the
Speaker 1: playoffs hot because we beat we had to beat New York,
Speaker 1: we had to beat Chicago, and then we're the road team,
Speaker 1: were the sixth seed. But our confidence at that point
Speaker 1: was so high. It was so high, man, we knew
Speaker 1: it didn't matter what we just said to ourselves. Man,
Speaker 1: if they let us in, it's home and we we
Speaker 1: we we ran through that thing. Man. So what was
Speaker 1: it like to finally be able to call yourself as
Speaker 1: a super Bowl champion after you know, thinking you're gonna
Speaker 1: get it the first time, it doesn't go your way
Speaker 1: the same time around the chart? Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: got a tattoo man after that man with the Lombardi
Speaker 1: Trophy that says my rightful place in history. That's that's
Speaker 1: that's how I feel about that. You know, I just
Speaker 1: I could never accept, you know, just like I mentioned
Speaker 1: college that I couldn't win. I couldn't leave without a championship.
Speaker 1: I couldn't play the NFL. I couldn't play my career
Speaker 1: man and not have a championship. I just I would
Speaker 1: have never accepted the fact that I played how many
Speaker 1: other years and never got to the show and win
Speaker 1: it like that would have been that would have been unacceptable,
Speaker 1: you know. So um to finally you know, be able
Speaker 1: to hold up the Lombardi Trophy man and get that win, Man,
Speaker 1: that was everything. Two thousand and eleven, Aaron Rodgers goes crazy.
Speaker 1: You guys go fifteen and one. He thought forty five
Speaker 1: touchdowns only six picks yards. As a someone who played
Speaker 1: offense early in your career, what was it like to
Speaker 1: be able to sit back and just watch this dude
Speaker 1: every single day do what he did. It's a monster, man,
Speaker 1: He's a monster. I think I think it was. It's.
Speaker 1: Um it's one of those things where for our team
Speaker 1: we became too reliable on that. Um. I think that
Speaker 1: I think the our our staff even did that, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as not bringing in you know, some proper,
Speaker 1: proper pieces defensively to keep up, but what he was
Speaker 1: doing offensively. So we always felt like, you know, for
Speaker 1: us on our end, if things weren't going well, all right,
Speaker 1: we got a rod He's gonna bring it home. But
Speaker 1: you know, after a while, man, that that that that
Speaker 1: wears off and when you talk about that year he
Speaker 1: goes off, right, we still get to the to the
Speaker 1: game against the Giants and they're they're the Giants are
Speaker 1: again and they beat us again on their way to
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. So but but sitting back and being
Speaker 1: able to watch him, man, it's it's like art. It's
Speaker 1: an art for man, it's watching art, you know, watching
Speaker 1: him be able to just you know, paint all over
Speaker 1: that field. Man. I love watching that dude play. Two
Speaker 1: twelve was your last year in Green Bay, back to
Speaker 1: the Raiders. What took you back back to the Bay? Man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: back to the Bay. It was a homecoming. You know.
Speaker 1: I left there. Never really talked to anybody in the organization.
Speaker 1: It was just it was like it was it was over.
Speaker 1: It was done. And so when when that offseason came around,
Speaker 1: I'm a free agent, you know, I took I went
Speaker 1: out to Denver, went out to San Francisco, went out
Speaker 1: to Denver. I really thought I would actually sign with
Speaker 1: one of those teams because I was trying to get signed, man,
Speaker 1: get myself ready to play, and it didn't happen. And
Speaker 1: then I remember Zach Crockett Zach was working for the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Zach called me, he said, hey, Man, come on home.
Speaker 1: I was like, what you're talking about, was Zach? He's like, Man,
Speaker 1: come on home, Man, you need to come on out here.
Speaker 1: Signed back and I was like, um okay. My wheels
Speaker 1: started turning, and so then uh set up the visit
Speaker 1: man and I got out there, Man and and Raider
Speaker 1: fans that were sitting outside the facility man all day
Speaker 1: waiting for me to get Yeah, it was crazy. It
Speaker 1: was crazy. That's that's why the players it was. It
Speaker 1: was crazy love. Man and I got out and I
Speaker 1: just remember people saying, Man, hey, man, see what we
Speaker 1: you know the social media, we're staying outside. Uh, and
Speaker 1: you ain't leaving without signing and the man, and I'll
Speaker 1: be damn man if I didn't, if I didn't get
Speaker 1: a deal done with those guys man and signed with
Speaker 1: the Raiders. So it was it was it was special, man,
Speaker 1: because I didn't know how. I didn't know how the
Speaker 1: fans were gonna take it, the news that I was
Speaker 1: coming back out there, none of that. I had no
Speaker 1: clue because I hadn't really I hadn't had that interaction.
Speaker 1: And when I when when that happened. Man, my my
Speaker 1: my blood was boiling. Man, I was it was like, man,
Speaker 1: this this is this, this feels good, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Yeah, obviously it didn't help to be oxen
Speaker 1: in a little bit warmer weather to you know it
Speaker 1: getting you know it. So when you think about it, man,
Speaker 1: eighteen years in the NFL. Eleven of those eighteen years,
Speaker 1: you played all sixteen games. When did you know it
Speaker 1: was time? Did your body start breaking down? Did your
Speaker 1: mind start wondering? When did you know it was time
Speaker 1: for me to hang it up? So my last year,
Speaker 1: the first game to see reason, uh, dislocated my shoulder
Speaker 1: and then the third game of the season, I was
Speaker 1: sustained a grade to mc L. So every every week
Speaker 1: from then on, from the first game of the season,
Speaker 1: I was fighting mentally to get myself, you know, ready
Speaker 1: mentally to play the game of football. So so going
Speaker 1: out there trying to practice, trying to hobble around, you know.
Speaker 1: Of course they took care of me that they weren't
Speaker 1: gonna make me practice the whole time. Uh, Jack del
Speaker 1: Rio was the coach. They made sure that I could
Speaker 1: I could go in and you know, come out for
Speaker 1: walk throughs. Going to the training facilities and do whatever
Speaker 1: I needed to do to get myself ready. But every
Speaker 1: every day mentally was a struggle because I was in pain.
Speaker 1: Man um. I had a physical therapist that I had
Speaker 1: never used one, like a therapist, you know, for that
Speaker 1: consistently my whole career. But my last year I used
Speaker 1: the physical therapist and that really got me through. But
Speaker 1: one morning I woke up in Detroit and uh, I said, man,
Speaker 1: I don't want to play no more. And it was
Speaker 1: like the tenth game of the season. It was November
Speaker 1: fift I believe, two thousand fifteen, and uh, I just
Speaker 1: I looked out the window was snowing, and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: if they called the game right now, I'd be the
Speaker 1: happiest man in the world. And that's what I knew.
Speaker 1: I knew right there, and I was like, it's over.
Speaker 1: And so I ended up playing I think six more games,
Speaker 1: and I was really in crews control, you know. I
Speaker 1: was just I was just I was playing the game
Speaker 1: because I played it for so long. But I was
Speaker 1: but I was done. I was I was done. So
Speaker 1: I played six games retired, you know what I mean. Uh,
Speaker 1: But but that was that was it. That was the moment. Man,
Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday. People don't know
Speaker 1: and if you mentally not there, that's when it starts
Speaker 1: getting dangerou, especially in your sport. Yeah. Yeah, so you transition.
Speaker 1: How did broadcasting come about? It kind of fell on
Speaker 1: me in Jack's lap. It was something that we didn't
Speaker 1: really think about, and all of a sudden, Oh, you
Speaker 1: guys are good at this. How did it happen? Uh?
Speaker 1: In your path? Well? What what? What I didn't know
Speaker 1: is that you know, networks, they they're looking for they're
Speaker 1: looking for guys, you know, so they they were probably
Speaker 1: looking for you, but you don't know they're looking for you, right,
Speaker 1: So you know, there were some articles that came out
Speaker 1: that hey, man, this these are the guys that may
Speaker 1: be good on television, and I was like, man, you know,
Speaker 1: I've never even talked to anybody about that, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: So then we started. I got an agent, We started
Speaker 1: talking to uh, some of the different networks, man, and
Speaker 1: had a couple of meetings, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: before you know it, right after that season, man, I
Speaker 1: was signed to ESPN and I was working you know,
Speaker 1: I signed a three year deal with ESPN. And working
Speaker 1: for the Wide World Leader in sports Man, it was
Speaker 1: crazy like it was. It's kind of like you guys,
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have a clue. That was it.
Speaker 1: So next chapter it looks like it's been pretty fun.
Speaker 1: You're currently working for Fox Sports, doing a bunch of
Speaker 1: different shows, working with the NFL. UM you also have
Speaker 1: some outside interest. Um, how did you get into wine
Speaker 1: in spirits? Yeah? I got in the wine man from
Speaker 1: my time out in UH with the Raiders, you know,
Speaker 1: the training campus in Napa Valley. So I just started
Speaker 1: drinking wine, you know, while I was out there man,
Speaker 1: and decided, Man, yeah, I want to I want to
Speaker 1: be a part of this, you know, long term. And
Speaker 1: so I started my own label back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, UH with with with friend of mine out
Speaker 1: there in Nappa Um. And so we started this label
Speaker 1: called you know by Charles Woodson UM. So we did
Speaker 1: that for for extended period period of time, and then
Speaker 1: about a year ago, I teamed up partner with a
Speaker 1: supplier out of Passo Robles and so that's the wine
Speaker 1: I have now, which you guys have, which is to intercept,
Speaker 1: I'm not much of a wine guy, but I am
Speaker 1: a with yes, so I appreciate. Yeah, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot to your
Speaker 1: honor on camera on a ship. Hey, I'm I'm a
Speaker 1: wine guy. And if y'all, if y'all ever come up
Speaker 1: with some ports, I'm a port drinker, man, send me
Speaker 1: a porter, all right, we'll do that. Hey, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: drink mine out of glad. I see how you doing it.
Speaker 1: I like how you do it straight at the bottom.
Speaker 1: I don't got I don't got real sophisticated in my
Speaker 1: old age. So he just put yours as you put
Speaker 1: your pinky as as long as you put your pinky
Speaker 1: up while you drinking that, you're good. Nice that smooth though, smoothy.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely a whiskey guy. Opened up the box last night.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, hell, yes, sir, yes, sir. Yeah. So man,
Speaker 1: I started I started this, Um, I started this deal
Speaker 1: earlier earlier, right, And so we had our first release
Speaker 1: about about a month ago, man, and it's uh really
Speaker 1: well man. People are really enjoying it, and uh, I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just happy man, proud of it. Man. This
Speaker 1: is this is this is my thing. So we got
Speaker 1: the wine we got the bourbon. Who knows what's next? Well,
Speaker 1: you got my address though, So whenever you feel like
Speaker 1: some whiskey bottles out the Cali baby, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: sure I'm gonna rink au love it. What kind of
Speaker 1: lasting impact you're looking to make with this company we're
Speaker 1: being with Spirits first of all. You know, for me,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're out all the time, you know,
Speaker 1: you see you know a lot of different uh wine lists,
Speaker 1: and you know there's always some staples that people have
Speaker 1: on on wine list. You know there's always a Mandavi,
Speaker 1: always gonna be a kaymist Um. I want to be
Speaker 1: in that mix somehow, you know. I want you to
Speaker 1: be able to go, you know, somewhere in l A
Speaker 1: wherever you guys at, and I want you to look
Speaker 1: on go to you know, three or four different restaurants
Speaker 1: and you see intercept on those lists. That's that's what
Speaker 1: we're trying to move to. Bah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And so we're in We're in forty five states now,
Speaker 1: um looking at being all fifty. But I want to
Speaker 1: be that. I want to be that staple. I want
Speaker 1: to be that household uh name. I want people to
Speaker 1: know intercept. So that's what I'm looking to do. Best
Speaker 1: of luck with that. Tell me what it means to you.
Speaker 1: You've obviously had, you know, the privilege of playing in
Speaker 1: the NFL for eighteen years, but you're a black business owner.
Speaker 1: How important is that to you? And what kind of
Speaker 1: pride does that bring when someone mentions that to you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: very proud. And I think it's more so um to me,
Speaker 1: a big deal just because you know, you play in
Speaker 1: the NFL, and you know, people put you in that box,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so for me to
Speaker 1: be in you know, first you know, the wine business
Speaker 1: and then now into bourbon, you know, you just break
Speaker 1: all of those stereotypes. You just kick out of it,
Speaker 1: you know, you kick out of all those boxes. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. You make your own way. And
Speaker 1: I think that and I think that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: And I think what it also does, man, is it
Speaker 1: gives you know, young you know, young kids, young African
Speaker 1: African American kids. You know that site of hey, man,
Speaker 1: here's a black business owner, man doing something that people
Speaker 1: probably didn't expect him to be doing. Man, I could
Speaker 1: do it too, you know, man, And I got you
Speaker 1: gotta see it, see it to believe it. So that's
Speaker 1: that's what it's all about. Transitioning now to the NBA.
Speaker 1: Do you watch teams players? If so, who are some
Speaker 1: of your favorites? Yeah, mainly, Uh, I don't really have
Speaker 1: a team, so you know, it's it's players that I
Speaker 1: that I usually watch. Um, of course, you know you
Speaker 1: gotta watch Lebron. It's hard not to watch, you know, greatness,
Speaker 1: you know, living legend in the game. Um, young kid
Speaker 1: John Morant. You know what I'm saying, is a special kid. Man.
Speaker 1: I know he was dealing with the injury, but a
Speaker 1: special player. And then of course, man, you know, it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard not to watch, you know, k D and
Speaker 1: his comeback and watching him come out for injury, still
Speaker 1: out there, lightning up shot a shot shot, shot is
Speaker 1: still as smooth as ever, and I like, I like
Speaker 1: stuff out here. Man. You know, people was trying to
Speaker 1: criticize him, how he's gonna do it with no help,
Speaker 1: and then he comes back, man and shoots the lights
Speaker 1: out on the team. Man, So I love that. Man.
Speaker 1: What's your thoughts on a on the current NBA versus
Speaker 1: the NBA when you was growing up. It's just different
Speaker 1: as far as you know, I grew up watching you know,
Speaker 1: we watched that documentary documentary with Jordan's and the Bad
Speaker 1: Boys and and how physical the game was back in
Speaker 1: the day and what you could get away with, you know,
Speaker 1: on on the court. Um, that's that's a big difference
Speaker 1: as far as that's concerned. And then also you know,
Speaker 1: if you're big, you don't see you don't see no
Speaker 1: Patrick Ewings no more. You know, down there on the block.
Speaker 1: If you Patrick, if you're a Patrick Ewing and you
Speaker 1: can't step outside on on the three point line in
Speaker 1: that little corner and and not and not knocked down
Speaker 1: that corner, three, man, you might well grab that clipboard
Speaker 1: because you you can't. You can't be on the field
Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to guard You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: guard another big out there on on on the perimeter somewhere.
Speaker 1: And if you can't shoot it, hey man, you're gonna
Speaker 1: go ahead and get it. Start your coach, start your
Speaker 1: coaching career early world. You know, I got the I
Speaker 1: coached my twins down there twelve. We travel on the
Speaker 1: country and playing and that's everything I'm teaching them as
Speaker 1: basketball players. It's almost become position list just for the
Speaker 1: reason you said there's not there's probably two centers, three maybe,
Speaker 1: but that you could throw the ball down and get
Speaker 1: a buck too and be joker. And I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: a hard time naming that third. But that that that
Speaker 1: that that game has kind of gone now, you know.
Speaker 1: So now everything is more free flowing. Everyone's life size
Speaker 1: and you've gotta be able to do a little bit
Speaker 1: of everything. So the game is definitely changed, um similar
Speaker 1: to how football has changed. I mean, like it doesn't
Speaker 1: really seem like they get hit no more. And in
Speaker 1: the NBA, you can't touch no more, you know what
Speaker 1: I means. So I think obviously it's it's in your
Speaker 1: game is for player's safety, but it's it's for the
Speaker 1: advantage of the offense. They want to see more scoring,
Speaker 1: they want to see more points, they want to see
Speaker 1: more touchdowns in the NFL, So it's really kind of
Speaker 1: changed over the years. And you know, obviously we were
Speaker 1: lucky enough, all three of us to kind of get
Speaker 1: the old ship and transition into what the new game
Speaker 1: looks like for both of our respective sports. Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I give the NFL props for you know,
Speaker 1: are they are trying to, you know, put in measures
Speaker 1: to protect the guys. You know certainly understand that. And
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, coming in when I came
Speaker 1: came in and then being able to see kind of
Speaker 1: the other side. I remember my last couple of years
Speaker 1: and opening before I sustained those injuries, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: with the way they're doing training camp now and no
Speaker 1: practices and no past, and I probably complained another five easy, easy,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. What are your thoughts though?
Speaker 1: I always want to know your thoughts of it as
Speaker 1: it because I think you guys obviously have to adjust
Speaker 1: the most, and it almost seems like you guys would
Speaker 1: some I've seen some guys hurt themselves trying to stay
Speaker 1: safe from hurting from hitting a receiver or hitting a
Speaker 1: running back because you know, you can't really hit like
Speaker 1: you used to hit, so from from from a defensive
Speaker 1: player's mentality, what what are your thoughts on that? I
Speaker 1: think what ends up happening sometimes is that guys end
Speaker 1: up missing plays right because you're you're running, you know,
Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen miles an hour, you know, going to make
Speaker 1: a play and make a hit and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden in the in the instant, you're trying to think, wait,
Speaker 1: how do I hit him? Uh? If I if I
Speaker 1: hit him here? You know, look so these fines ain't
Speaker 1: ain't chief fines and they find a guy's thirty forty thousand,
Speaker 1: So I mean, you out there, you know, sometimes that
Speaker 1: crosses your mind. And I remember one guy. I remember
Speaker 1: a guy had a quarterback in his grass. You know,
Speaker 1: he's getting ready to throw him down and he's waiting
Speaker 1: for the whistle. He let him go quarterback Ryan for
Speaker 1: the for the first time, I think. I think it
Speaker 1: was Green Band and the and the Vikings, I think
Speaker 1: it was. And it was like, man, he's thinking about
Speaker 1: not getting the penalty. Yeah, he let and the guy
Speaker 1: the quarterback end of running for the first down. So
Speaker 1: you're running all of these things are running running through
Speaker 1: your mind. Why are you playing the game instead of
Speaker 1: just playing the game? And sometimes I think that does
Speaker 1: hurt guys. All right, man, well this has been a
Speaker 1: great interview so far. We're coming down the stretch right
Speaker 1: here with quick hitter's first name to come to mind.
Speaker 1: Spit it out, so toughest receiver you ever had to
Speaker 1: match up with Marvin Harrison. Oh, starving Marvin, one of
Speaker 1: the great NFL player You wish you could have played with?
Speaker 1: I wish I could have played with Barry Sanders. Oh
Speaker 1: great call, great call. Uh, scariest quarterback you had to
Speaker 1: go up against. Is not the right world, but just
Speaker 1: just a bad motherfucker, Brady understandable. Three songs on your
Speaker 1: pregame playlist. I'll go all eyes on me. Uh jay
Speaker 1: Z had a song called two two's, I probably would
Speaker 1: have had uh rd and dirty you g K. Yes,
Speaker 1: there you go, there you go. You can't go wrong
Speaker 1: with that on yes, sir. Uh. Five dinner guests that
Speaker 1: are alive Jesus, Leonardo Da Vin Uh Da vinci Um,
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, Martin Luther King. Hm, what's that for? That's four?
Speaker 1: That's four, Muhammad Ali? Are you gonna learn something at
Speaker 1: that down? Yeah, you don't learn. Jesus, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be the same leaving that done a board man. I
Speaker 1: want to ease drop on that you're gonna learn today. Alright,
Speaker 1: final question, your answer. You have to help us with
Speaker 1: your answer to this question. All right, who do you
Speaker 1: want to see on all the smoke? Who do I
Speaker 1: want to see on All the Smoke. Stacy Abrams may
Speaker 1: have been trying to get on the show too. May
Speaker 1: have been trying to get on the show here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good call. Hey man, seawood Man, thank you
Speaker 1: for your time. It was an honor to be able
Speaker 1: to sit down with you today. Man, we appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, you got my address. I'm always ready
Speaker 1: for that whiskey whenever and the best of luck man
Speaker 1: with life after. Appreciate it, man, get that whiskey. Dot
Speaker 1: com is right now. I'm opposed to wine. I'm opposed
Speaker 1: to wine. That is Hey, that's a rap man. I
Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed another episode of All the Smoke.
Speaker 1: You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube, the I
Speaker 1: Heart Platform, and The Black Effects. See y'all next week.
Speaker 1: This is All a Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime