WEBVTT - PTG Recommends: Origin Stories! 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.320 Hey, there are part time genius fans. It's Mongas particularly 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:07.880 aka Mango, and I'm here with a very special feed drop. 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.280 Years and years ago, when Will and I were at 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.120 Mental Floss, we had a little magazine. I was always 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:19.880 looking for great writers, and when I was scouting the 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.439 front pages of New York Magazine, I'd seen this guy 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.400 who had written this little tidbit on the Park Slope 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.360 food co op, and I thought it was so wonderful. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.199 It was historical, it was funny, it was written in 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:38.360 this like really sharp and brilliant way, and I thought, man, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.360 I really want this person to write for Mental class 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.920 So we sort of recorded him. And his name is 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:48.040 Matthew Cher, and he wrote a couple articles for us, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.760 and every time he wrote an article, I just felt 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.080 so lucky to have his words in our magazine. Now, 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.800 Matt has gone on to have this incredible career, not 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.640 just as a journalist but also as podcaster. He's made 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.120 some of my favorite shows at his company, Campside, and 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.960 he has a new show out called Origin Stories, and 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.160 it is really so good. It's him sitting with other 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:18.760 writers or directors and talking about the creation of these 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.720 works that are close to their hearts, and for me, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.959 as someone who's always felt like an outsider writing, I 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.880 never got to learn at someone's elbow or looking over 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.960 someone's shoulder at a big magazine or a big publishing house. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.920 I've always loved shows like this because it gives you 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.960 real insight into how to write, and how writers think, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:44.520 and how storytellers really perfect their craft. Anyway, for today's 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.920 PTG recommends, we are recommending origin stories, and I'm going 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.400 to play you just a little clip with the incredible 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.480 author Stephanie Fou. I know her primarily for her work 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.440 at This American Life, but she also wrote this incredible 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.800 memoir that was a huge best seller, What My Bones Know, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.440 And they talk about how she worked her way through 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.640 telling the story about both her struggles and also really 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.560 about the healing process and the journey she goes on. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.840 So take a listen. I think you'll love it. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.120 Did you have readers in the writing process? Did your 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.240 husband read it, for example, or did you have friends 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:25.839 read versions of the manuscript? 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.600 Totally, it's funny because I guess this is a really 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.560 nice thing. He thinks it's a really nice compliment. He's like, 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.760 you are the best revisor that I know, he was like, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:43.919 your first draft was so bad, which doesn't didn't make 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.000 me feel good at the time, certainly, but he is 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.120 always like, your first draft is always terrible, and then 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.800 you get your edits, and then by the second draft 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.000 you have really turned things around and it's beautiful and 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.480 it's magical and it's great and you really know how 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:07.000 to like take edits well, So thanks, I guess Joey. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.880 Well, I mean, that is a skill that not everyone has, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.640 to be fair to Joey, there are people who are 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.639 really bad at taking edits in one of two ways, 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.560 are one of multiple ways. They get angry, or they 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.160 get defensive, or they're just like, I'm not taking these edits. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.240 I think that I have a good gut feeling of 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.359 when to not take an edit. I try to take 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.959 like ninety percent of edits, like my editor. One of 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:34.640 the edits you gave me was that my book had 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.240 too many fart jokes for a heavy book about trauma, 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.080 and I was like, no, I'm keeping in the fart jokes. Thanks. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.280 How many is enough? How many? How would like two 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:45.640 have been fine? Are great? 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:47.680 I don't know, but it was just like, you know, 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.600 this is a lot of potty humor, and I was like, well, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.440 first of all, I'm Asian, potty humor is our culture. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.880 And second of all, I wanted it to be a 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:02.320 funny book, like I wanted there to be respite in 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:07.320 the book, and fart jokes are one way to do that. Sure, 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.480 but yeah, I imagine having the self confidence to just 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.600 be like, I'm not taking edits. Making edits is like 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.599 an act of kindness to the audience. It's a way 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.359 of like looking out for them in terms of making 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.280 it easy for them, making it smooth for them to read. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:32.200 Your editors your like first audience, right, And I think 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.440 for my book anyway, I thought, I don't know, maybe 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.960 some artists think about this differently, and they make art 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.360 for themselves and they think my audience will come along 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.200 for the ride, who are like me. But for me, 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.640 I was thinking very intently about my audience in every 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.360 single sentence of this book. I would go back and 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.279 read it over and over again as different people in 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.320 my mind, and specifically people with different kinds of trauma, 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.960 Like I would read it as somebody who had sexual trauma, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.080 read it as somebody who had childhood trauma. I'd read 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.600 it from somebody who was queer or whatever as Asian. 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.880 I just really wanted the book to be gentle and 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.400 good and helpful to people with complex trauma, because it 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.320 is really really hard to have complex PTSD, and it 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.320 is really really hard to read about complex PTSD. It's 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.960 really painful, and it can easily feel very judged. I 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.000 wanted it to be gentle and good for them, and 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.200 so yeah, especially with my editors, who were all readers 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.680 with complex PTSD, I took their input very, very seriously. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.719 Like one of my first endings was more ungi dory, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.800 like everything's so great now. One of my readers who 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.720 had complex PTSD was like, this is not realistic enough. 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:48.559 It is hard. 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.040 It continues to be really hard. You have to convey that, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.560 and so I did change the ending, and I think 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.679 that was a really great edit. If you're not writing 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.479 for your audience, I don't know who are you writing for. 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.360 I don't know yourself to hear the sound of your 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.280 own voice, which I think is common. I'm really struck 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.200 by the shape of this book because in some sense 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.640 it's really traditional, Like have you ever heard the phrase 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:13.760 that there's only a few different kinds of stories? And 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.320 we repeat them over and over again. It's much more 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.240 than that. But if you were to like diagram it out, 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.920 if you like map it out, it's someone who has 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.279 a bad experience, learns to understand what it is, experiments 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.960 with understanding, like really digging into the literature, and then 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.440 tries to find her way through the end. It's like 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.080 a clean art, although it's not too clean as you 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:36.680 say it's. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.240 Yeah, it's the hero's journey, though definitely I'm the character. 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.400 I am the main character who's like going on the 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:44.920 journey and looking around trying to find the answers. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.760 And was that instinctual as soon as you knew that 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.880 this was going to be your book, was the shape 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:53.320 of it relatively clear to you? 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.640 Yeah? I think so. It's clear from all of my 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:57.760 work in the past that that's how you have to 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.360 do what. There has to be a main character who 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.080 is looking I wanted to be a first person narrative 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.040 first of all, because I have mostly dealt in first 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.000 person narratives throughout my entire career. That's again what I 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.360 know how to do. But I also know the power 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.640 of it. If you have like a very clinical book 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.080 or a book that's telling you how you should feel 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:22.040 about something, or straight facts and figures. I mean, I 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.160 struggle with a lot of nonfiction in reading it because 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.920 I get bored. But also I think that you have 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.720 the possibility of really pathologizing these topics and not making 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.880 them human. I think when you have a first person story, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.160 the primary benefit of that is people feel seen.