WEBVTT - Don’t F**k Around, Get A Prenup! 0:00:22.890 --> 0:00:23.950 Hey, I do part two. 0:00:23.980 --> 0:00:26.530 It's your celebrity mentor, Kelly and Simone. And today I'm 0:00:26.550 --> 0:00:30.090 joined by one of our favorites from bachelor nation and 0:00:30.130 --> 0:00:34.790 host of the podcast, After Reality, it's Courtney Robertson. 0:00:34.909 --> 0:00:38.220 Hi, Court. Hey, Kelly. 0:00:38.450 --> 0:00:41.440 Today, we get to welcome back to the pod, who's 0:00:41.460 --> 0:00:44.280 a wealth of information. He's a divorce attorney and huge 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.040 on TikTok. And today, we're going to talk all about prenups. 0:00:48.220 --> 0:00:52.760 Welcome back to the pod, Dennis Vetrano. So my knowledge 0:00:52.979 --> 0:00:56.180 of prenups, I'm so excited to talk to the expert. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:02.250 I did not have a My second engagement, I asked 0:01:02.390 --> 0:01:06.449 for a prenup. He declined. And so I called off 0:01:06.470 --> 0:01:10.910 my wedding four days before. That's the decision of my life. 0:01:11.890 --> 0:01:12.270 Smart cookie. 0:01:12.290 --> 0:01:14.789 Provide, protect, and keep you safe. That's what men are 0:01:14.810 --> 0:01:15.390 supposed to do. 0:01:15.890 --> 0:01:18.620 That's called boundaries. And that's called insisting on them. I 0:01:18.660 --> 0:01:18.959 love it. 0:01:19.500 --> 0:01:22.760 Dennis, it's Courtney here. And I'm in the throes of 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:26.029 a divorce. And to my knowledge, it's cheaper to keep her. 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.229 Yeah, I think for the most part, but here's the 0:01:30.370 --> 0:01:34.510 funny part about prenups these days. More and more women 0:01:34.750 --> 0:01:38.570 are opting for prenups and asking for them than ever before. 0:01:39.220 --> 0:01:40.919 I mean, the recent stat that I looked at was 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.600 like 52% of women are asking for prenups, which is 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.560 so foreign to me because having been in this industry 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.740 for 25 plus years, I'm accustomed to you know, here's 0:01:51.780 --> 0:01:56.460 this uber successful guy. I, you know, gets married and says, Hey, 0:01:56.500 --> 0:01:57.980 I want a prenup for all the stuff that I 0:01:58.020 --> 0:01:59.880 have before we get married. And of course they don't 0:01:59.960 --> 0:02:01.700 tell you, I want you to be a stay at 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.240 home mom. I want you to take care of the kids. 0:02:03.300 --> 0:02:04.880 I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, 0:02:04.940 --> 0:02:06.280 but if we split, you don't get anything. 0:02:07.100 --> 0:02:10.040 Greedy, greedy. Well, I, last time I checked, I don't 0:02:10.060 --> 0:02:11.910 have a prenup and I'm in the middle of a 0:02:11.930 --> 0:02:14.430 divorce and I had just moved into a new house. 0:02:14.450 --> 0:02:17.490 I have three little kids, everything. I've, I've done my 0:02:17.550 --> 0:02:20.490 research on you, everything that you're saying I'm going through. 0:02:20.610 --> 0:02:24.209 So Just to give a little context, my dad didn't 0:02:24.230 --> 0:02:27.010 have a prenup. He was married for 40 years. He's 0:02:27.030 --> 0:02:30.450 now remarried for seven years. And what's his is his 0:02:30.490 --> 0:02:33.770 and what's hers is hers. But I don't have a prenup. 0:02:34.190 --> 0:02:38.820 And I am going through a very contentious divorce currently. 0:02:39.340 --> 0:02:40.520 Sorry about that, Courtney. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:45.880 Yeah, yeah. And I was at least relatively familiar with that. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:50.050 That is... So it's funny because if you poll people, 0:02:50.210 --> 0:02:54.060 they say the four most scary things in life, top four, 0:02:54.740 --> 0:02:56.779 one of which is death, right? The other of which 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.380 is divorce. One, you know, out of the top four 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.980 scariest things people want, you know, when you say, what's 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:07.790 the scariest thing? So I don't envy the situation you're in. 0:03:07.930 --> 0:03:10.070 And as much as I've seen it from the outside, 0:03:10.430 --> 0:03:14.130 I've never been through it myself from the inside. So, yeah. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:15.560 you know, stay strong. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.660 Then I'm also with an attorney. So I have an 0:03:18.740 --> 0:03:22.060 order of protection, just shout out to that. Uh, I'm 0:03:22.100 --> 0:03:26.930 going through the proper channels, but it, it is scary, uh, 0:03:27.010 --> 0:03:29.930 Dennis to talk about that. It's like grief, you know, 0:03:29.950 --> 0:03:33.610 the five stages of grief and also having three little kids. 0:03:33.669 --> 0:03:37.420 So I'll, I'm sorry to jump in so quick, but, uh, 0:03:37.580 --> 0:03:39.060 last night was the first night I didn't have the 0:03:39.100 --> 0:03:41.780 kids for a week, uh, dealing with three little kids 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.400 on your own. Is also scary. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.570 Yeah. And it's funny because there's, but listen, there's two 0:03:48.630 --> 0:03:51.670 sides to that, right? So there's the scary part of 0:03:51.970 --> 0:03:54.870 having them with you and managing everything because that's a lot. 0:03:55.430 --> 0:03:58.970 But then even worse than that, not having them with you. 0:03:58.990 --> 0:04:01.830 Because when you establish that relationship with your kids, I mean, 0:04:01.870 --> 0:04:03.590 I have two of my own. It's like you go 0:04:03.620 --> 0:04:07.680 through so much to raise kids well. And I say, well, okay, 0:04:07.780 --> 0:04:10.500 anybody can just throw together kids and then it's not 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.090 as hard. But to raise kids well, it's a lot. 0:04:13.530 --> 0:04:17.409 But then you establish such a bond with them that 0:04:17.470 --> 0:04:20.450 when they're not around. It's funny because my brother-in-law, we 0:04:20.630 --> 0:04:22.370 see each other from time to time. He has four kids. 0:04:22.810 --> 0:04:24.910 And his last kid just went off to college. And 0:04:24.930 --> 0:04:26.469 he said to me, Dennis, he says, I think this 0:04:26.529 --> 0:04:29.550 is the high watermark in my life. Not to say 0:04:29.570 --> 0:04:31.630 you don't have your own independence and your own stuff. 0:04:32.290 --> 0:04:34.330 No, but it is. It is. 0:04:34.650 --> 0:04:37.620 I keep saying it's so easy to get married. And 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.240 it's so... expensive and hard to get divorced. 0:04:41.580 --> 0:04:41.740 Yep. 0:04:42.260 --> 0:04:44.250 It's, it's, it's a lot. And like I said, I just, 0:04:44.260 --> 0:04:49.289 I'm moving new surroundings and, um, but yeah, it's, I mean, 0:04:49.670 --> 0:04:52.650 it's like the only degree they, they grant you, it's 0:04:52.670 --> 0:04:56.820 like going to college, right? They, you can get married, done, easy. 0:04:56.980 --> 0:05:00.120 To get unmarried, the thing that I want people to know, 0:05:00.339 --> 0:05:04.300 it's really, really expensive and really hard. 0:05:04.820 --> 0:05:04.980 Yep. 0:05:05.390 --> 0:05:08.690 Well, it's not just hard and expensive, but actually it's 0:05:08.810 --> 0:05:13.169 a basically it's a filing. And so it's not up 0:05:13.230 --> 0:05:16.870 to you, your lawyer and your ex-husband. As Dennis knows, 0:05:17.029 --> 0:05:20.910 it's the state that decides when and how. And so 0:05:20.970 --> 0:05:24.150 you're dealing with a fourth party. And I'm sorry that 0:05:24.190 --> 0:05:26.359 you're going through that. You know, it's interesting, Dennis, too, 0:05:26.380 --> 0:05:28.260 because I'm such a huge fan of yours on TikTok 0:05:28.300 --> 0:05:31.260 and you say so many great things. You talk about 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:36.160 prenups not being romantic. So when I tried to, you know, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.420 instill my prenup, my ex would have said no. But 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.820 a lot of people who are getting these prenups are 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.960 realizing that these are just pieces of paper that really 0:05:46.100 --> 0:05:49.240 aren't valid. Because once you go into the divorce process, 0:05:50.220 --> 0:05:53.640 people are like, that prenup, it doesn't work. I'm not 0:05:53.670 --> 0:05:55.250 giving you X. I'm not giving you Y. What are 0:05:55.290 --> 0:05:56.490 your thoughts? 0:05:56.950 --> 0:06:01.390 It doesn't work if you do it poorly. If you 0:06:01.450 --> 0:06:04.219 do it well, it will likely work. So if you 0:06:04.260 --> 0:06:06.840 walk into my office tomorrow and you say, hey, I've 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.320 had these assets premarital. I've earned these things. I built 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.360 my company. I released a record album. I published a book, 0:06:14.380 --> 0:06:18.080 whatever it is. Those generally can and should stay yours 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.200 as part of the prenup. If you say in the 0:06:20.250 --> 0:06:22.060 next breath, well, I want to say that I don't 0:06:22.110 --> 0:06:24.010 have to pay child support if she has the kids 0:06:24.050 --> 0:06:27.109 and I don't want to. People want to put ridiculous 0:06:27.190 --> 0:06:30.090 things in prenups. And the problem is then when you 0:06:30.110 --> 0:06:33.919 get to court, they just look ridiculous. So now the court, 0:06:34.060 --> 0:06:39.760 and the standard varies from state to state. As best 0:06:39.820 --> 0:06:42.860 I'm aware, there are some other states that basically say, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.020 we're just going to do a redo when we look 0:06:45.060 --> 0:06:48.020 at your prenup and see if it's fair. If it's fair, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.520 according to the laws in your state, and in a 0:06:51.580 --> 0:06:53.740 way that they would resolve the divorce in your state, 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.460 then it's upheld. And if it's not, then they just 0:06:56.500 --> 0:06:59.490 revisit everything. So then to me, it can kind of 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.470 be somewhat worthless. But here's the point. I've never been 0:07:02.490 --> 0:07:04.589 the divorce lawyer that says, let's see how we can 0:07:04.650 --> 0:07:06.830 screw this person out of that. Screw this person out 0:07:06.850 --> 0:07:10.090 of this. It doesn't get you anywhere. So let's put 0:07:10.110 --> 0:07:12.570 it this way. Even if you did that, what do 0:07:12.590 --> 0:07:15.070 you end up with on the other side? Somebody who's 0:07:15.150 --> 0:07:17.300 pissed off. They feel like they've been taken advantage of. 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.700 And then we say, okay, good luck. Sit next to 0:07:19.740 --> 0:07:22.640 each other at graduation. Go to your first communion together. 0:07:22.740 --> 0:07:26.060 Watch them get married. That's never going to work. That's 0:07:26.100 --> 0:07:27.400 never going to work. 0:07:27.620 --> 0:07:29.700 Can I ask a question real quick, honey? 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:29.980 Yeah, sure. 0:07:30.580 --> 0:07:34.460 So I'm in the divorce. My divorce is filing and 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.220 it's filed. It was June 19th, my son's birthday, which 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.140 is the national holiday. But I put a waste clause 0:07:41.460 --> 0:07:46.380 in because I've been dealing with infidelity in my divorce filing. So, 0:07:46.860 --> 0:07:49.730 you know, I'm in Arizona, so it's a no fault state. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.610 So all the infidelity. But let's say he's been spending 0:07:52.670 --> 0:07:55.470 money on girlfriends, this and that to kind of walk 0:07:55.510 --> 0:07:58.290 it back a little bit. I put a waste clause 0:07:58.390 --> 0:08:00.820 in my divorce filing. Can you speak to that a 0:08:00.860 --> 0:08:03.900 little bit? Like what we earn during, you know, I 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.600 have the podcast, this, that, the other thing, just to 0:08:06.620 --> 0:08:08.020 kind of run it back a little bit. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.750 Recoup that for sure. Okay. Recoup that for sure. And, 0:08:11.830 --> 0:08:14.550 and again, you know, one of the more contentious divorces 0:08:14.630 --> 0:08:17.010 I had Westchester County, which is one of the bigger, 0:08:17.030 --> 0:08:18.710 one of the higher income areas, one of the bigger 0:08:18.770 --> 0:08:22.580 areas in our, uh, in my locale, um, Yeah, there 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.920 was lingerie for the girlfriend. There were chips. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.180 Was it good lingerie or tacky shit? 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:29.220 Oh, good God. 0:08:29.300 --> 0:08:29.600 Who knows? 0:08:30.460 --> 0:08:31.020 Who knows? 0:08:31.460 --> 0:08:34.880 I mean, listen, from this fellow's behavior, I mean, he 0:08:34.950 --> 0:08:36.650 was kind of like, you know, and then come home 0:08:36.690 --> 0:08:38.050 to the wife and want to kind of have the 0:08:38.090 --> 0:08:39.429 cake and eat it too sort of thing. 0:08:39.510 --> 0:08:40.890 Yeah, that's what I'm dealing with. 0:08:41.290 --> 0:08:45.610 So, Dennis, do these clauses like infidelity clauses, waste clauses, 0:08:45.630 --> 0:08:47.890 do they actually hold up in court? 0:08:48.410 --> 0:08:51.200 I think so. It really just depends on your particular state. 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.380 And in my mind, if it's me, if you come 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.420 into my office and you're saying like, hey, I want 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.720 to try to uphold this, I usually suggest no. I 0:08:58.780 --> 0:09:02.040 usually suggest those are very difficult. Those are very difficult 0:09:02.090 --> 0:09:05.550 to uphold, you know, at least in New York State 0:09:05.570 --> 0:09:07.470 because they're going to look very foreign to the judges. 0:09:07.730 --> 0:09:12.350 We do mostly vanilla prenups. And I prefer to do 0:09:12.429 --> 0:09:15.790 vanilla nuts and bolts prenups. I don't want to start 0:09:15.890 --> 0:09:18.390 putting these fringe terms into it because then you know what? 0:09:18.730 --> 0:09:22.410 Now it's subjected to being questioned and motion practice and 0:09:22.450 --> 0:09:24.729 possibly hearings on it. And what does that do? It 0:09:24.790 --> 0:09:27.569 costs you money. Do I want to charge you more 0:09:27.630 --> 0:09:30.690 money after the prenup or less? The point of the 0:09:30.750 --> 0:09:33.370 prenup is to save you money. It's not to get 0:09:33.809 --> 0:09:37.080 charged money. So I'm like, look, if you're worried about 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.740 this person cheating on you, you have much larger issues 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:43.579 to really... analyze. 0:09:44.100 --> 0:09:45.220 Bigger fish to fry. 0:09:45.260 --> 0:09:46.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.900 So speaking of these prenups and let's bring in postnups 0:09:50.980 --> 0:09:54.930 as well, should they be updated? And if so, how frequently? 0:09:55.809 --> 0:09:58.670 They can be updated, but what you want to do 0:09:58.710 --> 0:10:01.559 with a prenup is you want to keep it as 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.460 broad as you can. So it will cover the future. Now, 0:10:06.540 --> 0:10:09.760 if things change during the marriage, I mean, postnups are 0:10:09.940 --> 0:10:13.830 more difficult to uphold than prenups because prenups is before 0:10:13.870 --> 0:10:16.290 you get married, you're kind of protecting things. Now, once 0:10:16.309 --> 0:10:20.270 you start asking people for things to negotiate things they've 0:10:20.290 --> 0:10:23.130 acquired during the marriage, you're kind of flying in the 0:10:23.190 --> 0:10:26.330 face of the standard under the law. Because technically in 0:10:26.390 --> 0:10:29.209 New York State, once you get married, everything you're earning, 0:10:29.290 --> 0:10:32.730 everything you're building is generally together unless your prenup says 0:10:32.790 --> 0:10:35.650 something otherwise. So what I prefer to do is the 0:10:35.690 --> 0:10:38.310 way our prenup is crafted, it's crafted in a situation 0:10:38.330 --> 0:10:40.610 that basically says your separate stuff that you had prior 0:10:40.630 --> 0:10:43.130 to the marriage is separate. And if the two of 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.040 you say, hey, I decide... whatever I make under my 0:10:47.140 --> 0:10:50.510 name in terms of building, et cetera, is mine. So, okay, 0:10:50.670 --> 0:10:53.570 I have a software company and I invent something during 0:10:53.590 --> 0:10:57.330 the marriage that I've done solely exclusively in and of myself. 0:10:57.690 --> 0:11:00.210 I want that to stay mine and mine alone. I mean, 0:11:00.250 --> 0:11:04.660 those generally can and should be upheld. But if it's 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.300 like we worked together and we bought a house and 0:11:06.340 --> 0:11:09.199 now I want to say like who split, sometimes those 0:11:09.260 --> 0:11:14.459 are difficult. The post-nups, I suggest when marriages are on 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.370 the rocks, And you're trying counseling and it's just not working. 0:11:17.390 --> 0:11:19.630 You're not quite sure where it's going to go. While 0:11:19.650 --> 0:11:23.360 you're still relatively level-headed and you're not mired in the 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:28.699 midst of litigation, try to reach an agreement. I love that. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.819 Try to be fair and do a post-nup. I mean, 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.000 I suggest, look, either get out or both jump in 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.010 with both feet to counseling and try to work through it. 0:11:37.890 --> 0:11:40.630 I also love on TikTok how you talk about mediation. 0:11:40.990 --> 0:11:44.210 And that's how I, my ex-husband and I, we got divorced. 0:11:44.230 --> 0:11:45.950 You know, he was a high profile person in the 0:11:45.990 --> 0:11:48.489 fashion industry. I was a high profile person in the 0:11:48.530 --> 0:11:52.160 fashion industry. And it just, my best friend was like, 0:11:52.780 --> 0:11:54.780 he literally drove up to my house. He's like, this 0:11:54.860 --> 0:11:56.760 is how you're going to get divorced. You're going to 0:11:56.780 --> 0:11:59.819 have a mediator, your accountant, his accountant. You guys are 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:01.400 going to tie a bow on it. We're going to 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.439 put it in the press, one line in the press, 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.520 and it's going to be over. And it was the smartest, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.960 smartest thing. The only thing that I regret, like obviously 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.560 the post-nup, the pre-nup was the smart thing for me 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.700 to do with my last relationship. What I didn't like 0:12:17.860 --> 0:12:20.280 is I didn't like all the press around it. And 0:12:20.300 --> 0:12:24.270 I was very concerned, the daughter of a lawyer, very 0:12:24.309 --> 0:12:26.890 concerned that people were going to perceive me as this 0:12:27.730 --> 0:12:31.209 hard woman that gets the prenup. And I'm not a 0:12:31.250 --> 0:12:35.000 hard woman. I'm just a mother protecting my nest. 0:12:35.630 --> 0:12:40.579 Mama bear. I'm a mama bear too. Kelly, I love you. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.640 And I'm going to take your energy, but- I think 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.920 that the next question should be, how should you approach 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.920 having someone sign a prenup or a postnup? And also, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.480 you're in the public eye as well. But Dennis, how 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.750 should you approach having someone sign a prenup that's being 0:12:57.870 --> 0:12:59.160 resistant to the idea? 0:13:00.010 --> 0:13:02.130 Well, let's put it this way. Let's start with being 0:13:02.250 --> 0:13:05.110 concerned or not about being in the public eye. Yes, 0:13:05.170 --> 0:13:07.890 it's a very real thing. And for many people, your 0:13:07.970 --> 0:13:12.780 livelihood depends on your public image. How many? Ever. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:13.540 Right. 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:19.689 However, you've got to protect yourself and protect your kids 0:13:20.090 --> 0:13:22.469 and protect the things you've worked so hard for. So 0:13:22.510 --> 0:13:25.870 for the successful ladies out there, especially and even just 0:13:26.150 --> 0:13:28.110 I have a lot of young professionals that they're banking 0:13:28.170 --> 0:13:30.430 on themselves. They're like, I know what my brand is 0:13:30.450 --> 0:13:32.309 and I know what it's going to be. And I 0:13:32.330 --> 0:13:33.990 don't want a chance if this doesn't work that I 0:13:34.030 --> 0:13:34.790 lose everything. 0:13:35.570 --> 0:13:38.670 So it's interesting that you say that because I work 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:40.420 in high-end real estate. And so I work in the 0:13:40.460 --> 0:13:45.320 transaction business in my other life. And I was afraid 0:13:45.420 --> 0:13:48.440 when I asked him to sign the prenup and then 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.300 I called the wedding off and the press was going. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.220 And I was like, oh my God, the press is 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:53.980 going to come after me and say that I'm all 0:13:54.020 --> 0:13:57.340 these things. And which was interesting is that my clients 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.260 were like, that is so buttoned up. You were so amazing. 0:14:01.780 --> 0:14:05.189 The press and the public were very, very, very welcoming. 0:14:05.210 --> 0:14:08.989 I mean, this podcast really started because of my situation, 0:14:09.010 --> 0:14:12.230 which is so unbelievable. Good to talk to people like Courtney. 0:14:12.670 --> 0:14:15.720 They make money. The press, everybody has a job to do, right? 0:14:15.740 --> 0:14:16.520 Right. 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.430 But I'm just, my point, my point is, is that I, 0:14:19.900 --> 0:14:23.120 it could have gone the other way. It could have 0:14:23.140 --> 0:14:25.280 been a way where it's like Kelly's a monster, all 0:14:25.330 --> 0:14:27.810 these things. But it was the opposite where we have 0:14:27.830 --> 0:14:31.570 this new podcast. We're learning all this information. We're bonding 0:14:31.610 --> 0:14:35.170 together as a community. How do we help other people 0:14:36.050 --> 0:14:38.690 so that they are not in a situation like ours? 0:14:39.290 --> 0:14:42.910 And so I was just very, very, very so happy 0:14:42.970 --> 0:14:46.010 about it. But it was interesting because some people in 0:14:46.310 --> 0:14:48.610 the real estate industry were like, oh, this is going 0:14:48.630 --> 0:14:50.410 to hurt your business. I was like, no, no, no. 0:14:51.270 --> 0:14:54.109 they love it because I'm locked up. They love it 0:14:54.130 --> 0:14:57.620 that I'm like very professional with my personal life and 0:14:57.700 --> 0:15:01.640 my professional life. And it was like, it literally pivoted 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.420 me in even a bigger direction for work. 0:15:03.460 --> 0:15:06.440 But that's a lot of weight on your shoulders to carry. 0:15:07.230 --> 0:15:07.730 You think? 0:15:07.830 --> 0:15:10.770 I mean, I mean, look at those little frail shoulders. 0:15:10.830 --> 0:15:13.570 Like I have, you know, I just got back from Sedona. 0:15:13.590 --> 0:15:16.910 I've been healing and Dennis, you can hop in whenever, 0:15:17.010 --> 0:15:20.350 but that's a lot to carry mentally. Like I think, 0:15:20.430 --> 0:15:23.090 and what I saw on you, Dennis, it's like the 0:15:23.130 --> 0:15:26.640 woman tends to be the she fault parent. Right. Um, 0:15:27.420 --> 0:15:30.500 and that's just how it goes. Like I'm moving, I'm 0:15:30.980 --> 0:15:33.460 filing for divorce. I'm leaving the husband. Who's a narc, 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.930 a narcissist. Like, So you're dealing with the public media 0:15:37.970 --> 0:15:40.950 stuff and you can't carry all of that. At some 0:15:40.990 --> 0:15:42.970 point you will break. Right. 0:15:43.410 --> 0:15:47.410 But here's the thing. Guys have been doing that for decades, 0:15:47.790 --> 0:15:53.340 hundreds of years without any backlash. Right. So now here's 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.460 what I say. So you need a support system when 0:15:56.500 --> 0:16:01.110 you go through your divorce process. And anything associated with 0:16:01.190 --> 0:16:04.510 a breakup, a prenup, whatever it is, you should have 0:16:04.550 --> 0:16:06.750 a support system. And if you're in a position where 0:16:06.770 --> 0:16:08.890 you're a high profile person, you got to have a 0:16:08.950 --> 0:16:11.830 PR person there getting their arms around this thing because 0:16:12.090 --> 0:16:17.400 there is nothing easier, in my opinion, or more compelling 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:22.700 than female empowerment of all of your success and say, hey, 0:16:23.610 --> 0:16:26.170 Things guys have been doing for decades. Things guys have 0:16:26.190 --> 0:16:30.830 been doing for hundreds of years. Now, just like 51%, 52% 0:16:30.830 --> 0:16:34.530 of women are now asking for prenups. There's no shame. 0:16:34.670 --> 0:16:38.340 There's no embarrassment. There's nothing to explain. If everything you've 0:16:38.380 --> 0:16:41.780 worked so hard for, including your family and your kids, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.020 you're stepping up and protecting. And you've got control of 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.220 your situation and you're dealing with it. There's no reason. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.080 In my opinion, there's no more compelling story than that. 0:17:00.570 --> 0:17:03.730 I love that you're dispelling the stigma by 52% and 0:17:03.790 --> 0:17:07.520 saying that women are now making these great decisions. And 0:17:07.540 --> 0:17:11.100 I love that so much. Just because you get a 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.699 prenup doesn't mean you're not a beautiful woman. You get 0:17:14.740 --> 0:17:17.680 a prenup because you're protecting your family legacy. 0:17:17.980 --> 0:17:20.870 Well, I hear you talking about core values and I'm 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.110 still in the throes of it. And Like for me, like, 0:17:24.450 --> 0:17:26.810 you know, my husband isn't in the tech world. We 0:17:26.850 --> 0:17:29.490 don't have a lot of assets, but I am curious. 0:17:29.930 --> 0:17:32.430 The house is our only asset. So he's going to either, 0:17:32.570 --> 0:17:35.300 I either have to buy him out to walk it back. 0:17:35.450 --> 0:17:39.189 You know, Kelly, sorry. You know, I'm going through it, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.459 but that's our main asset is the house. I'm on it. 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.200 And I would like to ask that, you know, either 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:47.700 he's going to have to buy me out or I'm 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.060 going to have to buy him out. I don't want 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.260 to live there anymore because there's too many ghosts. I've 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.030 just moved, like I said. Dennis, if you could speak 0:17:54.070 --> 0:17:57.050 to that for somebody who, you know, might be going 0:17:57.130 --> 0:17:59.169 through it on a smaller scale. 0:18:00.380 --> 0:18:03.820 Yeah. I mean, I think, listen, we handle multi, multi, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.000 multimillion dollar asset divorces. And we also handle just general 0:18:08.460 --> 0:18:12.380 two wage earners. You know, mom's a teacher. Dad works 0:18:12.420 --> 0:18:15.790 for IBM. Like they have a couple of, you know, 0:18:15.830 --> 0:18:18.750 pension plans, retirements and a house. We deal with hundreds 0:18:18.790 --> 0:18:19.970 of those, if not thousands. 0:18:20.590 --> 0:18:20.689 Yeah. 0:18:20.710 --> 0:18:23.840 Yeah. As you go through these processes, and I'll share 0:18:23.859 --> 0:18:28.160 with you another story. I never felt worse about myself 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.480 than when I applied for my first mortgage. This is 0:18:32.540 --> 0:18:35.199 many years ago, right? And this is my wife had 0:18:35.220 --> 0:18:37.250 already been very successful at that point, right? I was 0:18:37.290 --> 0:18:39.410 a lawyer. I was very successful, but I didn't really 0:18:39.430 --> 0:18:42.609 have my finances in order. Mortgage broker looks at me. 0:18:42.690 --> 0:18:45.450 He's like, you got too much debt. You don't make 0:18:45.490 --> 0:18:49.770 enough money. You're like, give me the house. 0:18:49.950 --> 0:18:50.730 I'm buying a house. 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:57.240 But listen. That experience allowed me to build on something 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.860 that got me to where I am. So the reality, 0:19:00.980 --> 0:19:05.219 the harsh reality of going... Because most people don't do 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.200 a net worth statement until they go through a divorce process. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.080 The harsh reality of looking at that net worth statement 0:19:11.100 --> 0:19:13.900 and saying, hey, I need to make more money. Hey, 0:19:13.940 --> 0:19:18.870 and that is a motivating factor. That knowledge... And that 0:19:18.930 --> 0:19:22.510 experience is power moving forward. You can't look at it like, 0:19:22.590 --> 0:19:23.950 oh my God, I'm terrible. 0:19:24.590 --> 0:19:26.690 Knowledge is power. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.060 It is a starting point. It's not an end. So 0:19:30.100 --> 0:19:33.179 when we talk about the cases where, yes, maybe all 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.720 there is to divide is a house. But then what 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.540 I say to you is, why in the hell are 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.080 we going back and forth with two lawyers to the 0:19:43.140 --> 0:19:46.850 tune of tens of thousands of dollars to say, so 0:19:47.090 --> 0:19:49.970 I'll give you a perfect example. I'm your lawyer, Courtney. Courtney, 0:19:50.619 --> 0:19:52.580 your husband wants to know if he can pick up 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.159 the children at 4.30. No, no, I can't. I can 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.219 only do 4.15. Okay, now I charge you for that 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:58.420 phone conversation. 0:19:58.530 --> 0:20:01.010 He changed the locks on me the other day and 0:20:01.190 --> 0:20:03.110 I have the order of protection so I can't get 0:20:03.170 --> 0:20:04.670 my personal belongings. 0:20:04.770 --> 0:20:09.409 But there's going to be 25 phone calls over every little... 0:20:09.130 --> 0:20:11.220 15 minute increments. 0:20:14.510 --> 0:20:15.220 Right. Right. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.250 So, so what I say to clients is I tell 0:20:19.290 --> 0:20:20.910 them and I think, you know, and, and, and what 0:20:20.990 --> 0:20:22.850 pains me in the case is where there isn't a 0:20:22.869 --> 0:20:25.929 whole lot to really fight over. And yet my client 0:20:25.970 --> 0:20:28.470 says to me, I don't care, Dennis, this is going 0:20:28.490 --> 0:20:30.520 to be contentious. It's going to be a knockdown drag out. 0:20:30.540 --> 0:20:34.690 I'd say, average divorce lawyer per side in New York 0:20:34.770 --> 0:20:36.290 state is 20 to like. 0:20:36.130 --> 0:20:36.430 $ 50, 000. 0:20:36.230 --> 0:20:39.870 Like, what are you going to, where is that money 0:20:39.930 --> 0:20:40.690 coming from? 0:20:40.710 --> 0:20:42.470 Dennis, you're going to make me cry. 0:20:42.490 --> 0:20:46.959 Yeah. But you know what? You will get through the process. 0:20:48.260 --> 0:20:51.500 You will be better on the other side. You just 0:20:51.540 --> 0:20:55.300 have to stay patient and keep your team, your support 0:20:55.340 --> 0:20:57.899