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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk Nashville.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, this is Sarah Harrelson, your host of Taking

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Speaker 2: a Walk Nashville, and here with me today is Georgia

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Speaker 2: native Kiley Hammock. She has built a reputation for bold

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Speaker 2: songwriting and powerhouse vocals, earning nearly two and seventy five

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Speaker 2: million global streams and winning an ACM Award for Musical

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Speaker 2: Event of the Year for Fool the Rounds and Fell

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Speaker 2: in Love with Miranda Lambert. Her sophomore album, Be of

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Speaker 2: Roses has been praised by Rolling Stone and Billboard as

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Speaker 2: one of the best country releases of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: and she's taken the storytelling even further with a romance

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Speaker 2: novel inspired by the album. Co written with best selling

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Speaker 2: author and Carolyn Brown. She shared stages with legends like

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Speaker 2: Stevie Nicks, Riva Eric Church. In this fall, she'll be

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Speaker 2: joining Brooks and Dunn on their Neon Moon tour.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a

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Speaker 1: Walk Nashville Podcast. Welcome to Taking a Walk Nashville with

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Speaker 1: your hosts singer songwriter Sarah Harrelson Cayley.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here today with me.

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Speaker 3: So many exciting things that are happening with you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and also I'm excited to be here because we

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Speaker 4: kind of have a full circle of we met each other.

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Speaker 3: I feel like when neither of us had much.

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Speaker 4: Going on, you know, and now I'll look at us,

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Speaker 4: we're here at CRS.

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Speaker 3: We're doing the thing. I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably been about like ten years ago when

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Speaker 2: I met you during CMA Fest through another promoter here

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Speaker 2: in town, and I remember you were singing on Broadway,

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Speaker 2: and it's just so much fun to see your career

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Speaker 2: journey over the past ten years.

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Speaker 3: It's been. Yeah. Now I go down there and I

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Speaker 3: just drink and listen to the bands. I don't have

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Speaker 3: to work anymore.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, oh yeah, it's been so fun to see

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Speaker 2: that now. And you know, you went from Broadway to

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Speaker 2: now sharing stages of the artists like Stevie Nicks and Riba.

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Speaker 3: Was there a moment from one of.

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Speaker 2: These shows that have really stuck with you?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: I got a call on a Tuesday that they needed

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Speaker 4: me to open up for Stevie Nicks in Atlantic City

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Speaker 4: on a Thursday night, and so it was a quick turnaround.

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Speaker 4: But when Stevie Nicks, when her manager calls and says,

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Speaker 4: Stevie needs you to open for you show up, you know,

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Speaker 4: And so we came in there and we played a

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Speaker 4: sold out show, and it was just one of those

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Speaker 4: situations where I didn't know that she had come out.

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Speaker 3: To watch my sound check until afterwards, and that really

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Speaker 3: shocked me. That stunned me.

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Speaker 4: But it was a moment as she was performing, she

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Speaker 4: was singing Landslide, and I just bawled. A side stage

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Speaker 4: with my band, we all cried together, because it's just

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Speaker 4: a full circle kind of situation, I feel like, especially

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Speaker 4: as a young female artist, when you get to open

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Speaker 4: up for someone that you never even knew you would

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Speaker 4: ever get to meet or even see in concert, you know,

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Speaker 4: from the Nose Bleeds one night, that's all I would hope.

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Speaker 3: For was Stevie Nicks.

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Speaker 4: But she was kind enough to remember my name and

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Speaker 4: make sure to make time to talk to me after

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Speaker 4: the show and encourage me, and you just it's just

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Speaker 4: some moments like that that you think back to what

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Speaker 4: would a thirteen year old me say if I told

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Speaker 4: her this, and she would.

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Speaker 3: Think I'd be a big, fat liar.

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Speaker 4: So I'm just still kind of in awe of the

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Speaker 4: Stevie Nick shows we did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what a beautiful and humbling moment.

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Speaker 2: And you know you've also won ACM Musical Event of

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Speaker 2: the Year with Miranda Lambert or pulled Around and fell

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Speaker 2: in Love. What do you remember about being part of

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Speaker 2: that collaboration with Miranda?

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Speaker 3: Oh, it was so cool.

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Speaker 4: It was the first time I'd ever got to hang

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Speaker 4: out with some of those girls. And I owe Miranda

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Speaker 4: so much credit because she didn't have to do that,

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Speaker 4: you know, she didn't have to bring all of us

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Speaker 4: together and rally us together to sing and then pay

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Speaker 4: to produce it and put it out, you know, under

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Speaker 4: her name. She really did a lot for us because

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Speaker 4: in that time, I really got to get close with

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Speaker 4: Ashton mcgride, I got close to Miranda, I got close

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Speaker 4: to Tanil and the other women that sang on it,

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Speaker 4: and it just I remember there was a moment that

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Speaker 4: day that I'm a huge Randa Lambert fan just because

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Speaker 4: of what she stands for and how kind she is

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Speaker 4: to all the young female artists that I know. But

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Speaker 4: she I had went to pick up my purse. I

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Speaker 4: was about to walk out. Her and Ashley are playing

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Speaker 4: songs with Jay Joyce there in his studio. Jay had

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Speaker 4: produced both of their records, and so, you know, as

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Speaker 4: the young artist, I see two older artists that you know,

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Speaker 4: they never have free time. They never can just hang

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Speaker 4: out with their friends. They're always on the road NonStop.

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Speaker 3: And I thought, I'll just.

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Speaker 4: Excuse myself and leave so that they can have more

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Speaker 4: one on one time without some young artists they don't know,

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Speaker 4: kind of hanging about. And as I'm picking up my purse,

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Speaker 4: Miranda looked at me and she goes, well, where are

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Speaker 4: you going? And I said, I'm just going home. And

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Speaker 4: she goes, well, why are you going then? And I said,

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Speaker 4: I was just gonna give you all time to hang out.

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Speaker 4: She goes, no, you're one of us put your purse

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Speaker 4: down or listening to music, And I just I think

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Speaker 4: that moments like that are really important when you're kind

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Speaker 4: of new in this industry. And I don't know, I

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Speaker 4: think Miranda Lambert is a huge champion for women in

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Speaker 4: this industry, and Ash McBride is too, and all the

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Speaker 4: women that I met through that song, it's just been

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Speaker 4: it's just crazy to even be able to call them

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Speaker 4: by their first names, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very grateful for them. It's so wonderful to

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Speaker 3: have that community too.

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Speaker 4: Very much so the community in country music and especially

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Speaker 4: around the artists, the female artist that I have in

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Speaker 4: my realm. I feel like those are some of the

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Speaker 4: most valuable friendships I've ever had, and I'm just so grateful.

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Speaker 4: They're the ones that keep me sane and keep me

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Speaker 4: from shaving my head moving to another country.

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Speaker 2: Great and your sophomore album, bet of Roses that was

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Speaker 2: named one of the best albums of twenty twenty five

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Speaker 2: by both Rolling Stone and Billboard. What does it mean

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Speaker 2: to see that level of recognition.

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Speaker 3: For this record? Unreal? And it really Uh, it was a.

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Speaker 4: Really cool situation because I had just left my label.

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Speaker 4: I had I had tried to get out a few

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Speaker 4: years before, and they wouldn't allow me out, which, you know,

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Speaker 4: I get it, it's business. But a few years after that,

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Speaker 4: finally Mike Harris came into play at the label, and

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Speaker 4: I just I finally was able to get my wish

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Speaker 4: and my want of being out because I had noticed

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Speaker 4: a lot of my friends their careers were doing better

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Speaker 4: once they left the label that they were a small

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Speaker 4: fish at, when they were finally able to own their

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Speaker 4: own masters and own their own merch and really have

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Speaker 4: true control versus having to go through you know, when

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Speaker 4: you have eleven chefs in the kitchen, it takes a

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Speaker 4: long time to sometimes get approval on things, and by

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Speaker 4: the time you get approval, the magic is gone, the

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Speaker 4: moment is gone. And so being able to finally walk

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Speaker 4: away and be able to do it Indy has just

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Speaker 4: made such a difference in my life.

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Speaker 3: Also creatively, it's been really spectacular.

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Speaker 4: So being able to walk away from that turn around

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Speaker 4: and wake up one morning and see articles where Billboard

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Speaker 4: and Rolling Stone are saying it's one of the best

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Speaker 4: ones of the year. It was such a validating moment

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Speaker 4: and a comforting moment of Yes, like when I put

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Speaker 4: my mind to it and I put out the music

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Speaker 4: that I love and I think is important, other people

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Speaker 4: are hearing it too, And yeah, it really did a

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Speaker 4: lot for my heart and kind of gave me even

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Speaker 4: more comption going into this new kind of realm where

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Speaker 4: I have full creative control, not just mostly creative control.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that could be a scary thing, stepping out

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Speaker 2: onto your own but I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: don't realize. You know, everyone sees the glam of signing

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Speaker 2: with a big lavepole, but for newer artists that can

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Speaker 2: be tough to break out and have creative control. So

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Speaker 2: I know, I know it's scary, but it must be

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Speaker 2: beautiful being able to do that at the same time.

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Speaker 3: A big relief.

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Speaker 4: And I think if there was an artist before me

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Speaker 4: that were texting me, encouraging me and saying, hey, my

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Speaker 4: life got better when I left, those moments were really

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Speaker 4: like what helped me I think sometimes. I mean for

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Speaker 4: anyone listening, say you're not in the industry, I hope

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Speaker 4: that you take something from this.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes when you.

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Speaker 4: Were able to take off that security blanket, that safety

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Speaker 4: that you've blanketed yourself with, you realize it was almost

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Speaker 4: suffocating you in certain instances and a lot of I

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Speaker 4: think creativity comes from stepping out into the unknown.

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Speaker 3: So if you're listening to this and this made you

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Speaker 3: think of something in.

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Speaker 4: Your life, I hope this is the push to get

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Speaker 4: you to make that big jump and make that big leap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that so much.

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Speaker 2: And alongside your latest album Better Roses, you decided to

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Speaker 2: release a romance novel tied to the Songs with Carolyn Brown.

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Speaker 2: How did your idea to create a book that mirrors

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Speaker 2: the album come about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, mirror the album.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly the right phrase for the right term for it.

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Speaker 4: I decided the track listing and I'd already sent in

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Speaker 4: the approval for it when the idea and the concept

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Speaker 4: for the book came to be and I realized I

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Speaker 4: cannot change around the track listing, which was perfect because

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Speaker 4: it gave me a certain set of parameters in which

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Speaker 4: to create in and where.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you go to write a book, well,

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Speaker 3: what are you going to write it about?

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Speaker 4: And so what I did as the concept of the

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Speaker 4: book is this album, Bed of Roses is more of

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Speaker 4: a sad song centric album. If you listen from top

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Speaker 4: to bottom the way that that album plays, you get

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Speaker 4: my story. You get my experiences in the past, say

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Speaker 4: ten years of my life. But if you take every

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Speaker 4: single song on that record.

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Speaker 3: In the track listing, you reverse it.

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Speaker 4: Every single song is a chapter and it tells the

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Speaker 4: story of Sam, the protagonist. So if you need something

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Speaker 4: that ventures into the heartfelt, more sad, melancholy side, then

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Speaker 4: you can go and listen to just the record from

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Speaker 4: top bottom. If you want to be able to in

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Speaker 4: the day with a little sweet treat of the happily

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Speaker 4: ever after, where things work out and things are going

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Speaker 4: to be okay, then you can read the book. I

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Speaker 4: think that in a world where we don't get control

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Speaker 4: over anything, you know, and anything we think we have

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Speaker 4: control over, a lot of that is a mirage. I

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Speaker 4: think that being able to write a book that, for me,

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Speaker 4: that's what Romances is.

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Speaker 3: It's not Nicholas Sparks.

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Speaker 4: I ain't killing anyone's grandmama in one of my books.

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Speaker 4: I'm not gonna make you weep too hard at the end.

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Speaker 4: I love a book where you know everything's going to

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Speaker 4: work out okay for that person, and I just wanted

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Speaker 4: to be able to kind of give that sweet treat assurance,

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Speaker 4: I guess beside the album. And also, I don't know

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Speaker 4: if you grew up doing this, but I was a

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Speaker 4: fan fiction girly. I was the watt pad kid, and

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Speaker 4: anytime my favorite character would die in a book or

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Speaker 4: in a movie, I would then go read fan fiction

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Speaker 4: that someone wrote that they lived a good life and

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Speaker 4: they went on to continue wherever. And every single time

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Speaker 4: my favorite fan fictions would have one song at the

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Speaker 4: top of every chapter, and it'd be like, go listen

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Speaker 4: to this song as you read this chapter. So I

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Speaker 4: got to kind of accomplish what thirteen year old needs

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Speaker 4: to love and fan fiction is every single out or

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Speaker 4: every single chapter has a song that goes with it,

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Speaker 4: so it's a listening and reading experience.

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Speaker 3: That was Michael. I love how that's correlated.

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Speaker 2: And Dolly did the same thing with her Run Rose Run.

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Speaker 4: That was really where the idea came from. Well not

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Speaker 4: that the idea came from, but that was what assured me, oh, wait,

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Speaker 4: you can do this. Someone has done this already, and

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Speaker 4: so having Carolyn Brown on it too. The first book

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Speaker 4: that I wrote, I knew I was not going to

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Speaker 4: be able to do it as quick as I needed to.

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Speaker 3: We only had two and a half months.

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Speaker 4: And they told me going into it, they said, this

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Speaker 4: is a year and a half project normally, but you

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Speaker 4: have two and a half months for everything. So what's

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Speaker 4: funny is, as a perfectionist, I think it's humorous that

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Speaker 4: there's typos, there's spelling errors and grammatical errors in that book.

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Speaker 4: Younger me that would drive me up the wall, but

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Speaker 4: older me realizes that I accomplished something in such a

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Speaker 4: small amount of time that I'm just immensely proud of

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Speaker 4: and I can only grow from here. You know, you

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Speaker 4: got to put out your first book, and maybe it's good,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's bad, but you keep continuing and your skill

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Speaker 4: just grows as you grow. And so I'm already working

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Speaker 4: on the next book and I'm really enjoying her.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and for your first book, you got to work

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Speaker 2: with Carolyn Brown?

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Speaker 3: Or was it like working with Carona?

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Speaker 4: She heard what I was doing and she reached out,

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Speaker 4: said she was willing to come in and help me

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Speaker 4: figure it out.

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Speaker 3: And cool.

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Speaker 4: She's just it's I don't even know how to explain it.

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Speaker 4: I'm stuttering because I am in such awe of Carolyn

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Speaker 4: Brown as a person.

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Speaker 3: This woman writes non stop.

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Speaker 4: All her brain is is a vessel for creativity and

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Speaker 4: ideas and storytelling.

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Speaker 3: And it just was so impressive to work with her.

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Speaker 4: What I kind of had her as was this grandmotherly

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Speaker 4: figure that echoed the grandmotherly figure in the book. The

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Speaker 4: book is really centered around more so and the love

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Speaker 4: story itself. It's initially figured around this one woman named

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Speaker 4: Sam and this older woman Kathleen. He takes her under

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Speaker 4: her arm or her winged and helps her figure out

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Speaker 4: who she is and how to be that persons in

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Speaker 4: this world. And that's exactly what Carolyn Brown started doing.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: She agreed to come on and listen to my idea

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Speaker 4: and read what I'd been writing, and she connected with it,

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Speaker 4: and she helped me bring it to what it is

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Speaker 4: and gave me a lot of encouragement.

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Speaker 3: She said, this next book, I challenge you.

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Speaker 4: Write it by yourself, because I truly believe you can.

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Speaker 4: And now now that I'm here, I can help you edit,

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Speaker 4: I can help you know, guide you, but I believe

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Speaker 4: that you can do it fully, and I think you

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Speaker 4: need to do it at least once, and then you're

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Speaker 4: always gonna want to write.

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Speaker 3: And it's so true.

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Speaker 4: I remember, Sarah. I remember the day after I finished

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Speaker 4: writing it. I woke up and I made coffee, and

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Speaker 4: I went and put my reading glasses on to sit

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Speaker 4: down and keep writing.

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Speaker 3: And I realized that there was no more to write.

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Speaker 3: And I remember crying because for the first time ever,

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Speaker 3: I missed the characters I had written.

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Speaker 4: Every day I'm writing a new song about some new character,

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Speaker 4: a person in my mind or someone I love. But

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Speaker 4: that was months of getting to create these characters to

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Speaker 4: the point I knew them so intimately they felt like

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Speaker 4: they were my friends, and then I couldn't finish their

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Speaker 4: story anymore.

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Speaker 3: So that's the.

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Speaker 4: Coolest thing of right the next book is I'm just

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Speaker 4: continuing their story a little bit further.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited to hear about the next book.

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Speaker 2: And I've definitely listened to the Better Roses album. So

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Speaker 2: now I gotta do the book and.

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Speaker 3: See how you give me your address, I can send

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Speaker 3: you a book. Yeah, yeah, I would love to read it.

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Speaker 2: So in addition to being an author in your new

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Speaker 2: music this ball, you are joining the Neon Moon tour

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Speaker 2: with Brooks and Done. Are you excited to be hitting

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Speaker 2: the road with them?

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Speaker 4: Unreal for people listening right now, I have my Brooks

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Speaker 4: and Dundon I'm jacket all.

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Speaker 3: I love them. I had to wear it.

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Speaker 4: I'd been wearing it constantly chronically since the dates announced.

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Speaker 3: But it's such a it's such a cool full circle.

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Speaker 4: I've played so much Bricks and Done in my shows,

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Speaker 4: Like one of my first big tours was opening up

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Speaker 4: for Luke Bryan and I used to play play something

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Speaker 4: country and so it's a really cool moment to get

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Speaker 4: to go on the road with these guys and see

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Speaker 4: them perform and see how they work and get to

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Speaker 4: know their crew and stuff. One of my favorite things

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Speaker 4: is just wandering around backstage and talking to people about

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Speaker 4: their roles on the teams and how all the different

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Speaker 4: roles are different. You know, but every single person is

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Speaker 4: another limb, another organ in the anatomy of keeping the

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Speaker 4: show going on the road, and it's just cool. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 4: So I know, I'm probably going to annoy a bunch

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Speaker 4: of people on that crew because I ask a lot

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Speaker 4: of dumb questions. But you only learn by asking dumb questions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, especially when you grew up listening to them.

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Speaker 2: It's so iconic to be able to share a tour

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Speaker 2: with them.

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Speaker 4: I want to know everything, so I'm very grateful for

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Speaker 4: them having me out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people can grab tickets for that upcoming tour. You've

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Speaker 2: also performed internationally and we have a lot of listeners

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Speaker 2: overseas on taking.

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Speaker 3: A walk Nashville.

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Speaker 2: How do you think audiences overseas respond differently to country

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Speaker 2: music or how they have embraced country music?

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Speaker 4: So anyone listening from anywhere in the world outside of

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Speaker 4: the US, I would love for you to come up

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Speaker 4: to me next time I'm over there, and tell me

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Speaker 4: your thoughts on this, because I feel like all of

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Speaker 4: us artists, we.

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Speaker 3: Have the same answer.

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Speaker 4: It is they care more, They listen more adamantly, they

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Speaker 4: listen more intently. They in no disrespect to any of

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Speaker 4: our US listeners. But what I mean is it's in

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Speaker 4: a way that I can't explain unless you've seen it.

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Speaker 4: First time I went on stage in Berlin, it was

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Speaker 4: my first time ever being on the stage outside of

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Speaker 4: the US, and I start into my song.

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Speaker 3: And they're very very quiet. And I finished my song.

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Speaker 4: The last note rings out, and they're still very very quiet,

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Speaker 4: and I thought, oh no, they hate me here, I'm

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Speaker 4: their cup of tea. And two or three seconds of

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Speaker 4: silence wrung out after the song had finished, before they

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Speaker 4: just erupted an applause.

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Speaker 3: And what I've learned is and tell me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 4: This is why I'm prompting this to any of you

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Speaker 4: when I see you over the next year. We're coming

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Speaker 4: to Norway, We're coming back to Germany, We're coming back

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Speaker 4: to Scotland and many other different places.

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Speaker 3: But that will be announced in a few months. I

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Speaker 3: want to know how y'all see it.

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Speaker 4: Different because I feel as if you have more of

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Speaker 4: a focused belief and passion for country music, then maybe

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Speaker 4: you get say in the US, where it's everywhere. You know,

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Speaker 4: I think that there's a sacredness almost to country music

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Speaker 4: over there, and I.

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Speaker 3: Feel it with you.

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Speaker 4: I feel the magic y'all create when you give space

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Speaker 4: for the music to exist.

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Speaker 3: And so it's one of my favorite things in the world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I last year, I went over and I played

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Speaker 4: two different little small headlining stuff. It was in Amsterdam

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Speaker 4: and it was just me on a guitar for ninety

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Speaker 4: min and one hundred and twenty people showed up. And

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Speaker 4: I didn't know if anyone would show up, but one

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Speaker 4: hundred and twenty people showed up.

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Speaker 3: They stayed through the show, and.

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Speaker 4: Almost every single person bought merch and I got to

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Speaker 4: hug all these necks and get to know people, and

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Speaker 4: people brought me gifts and little things and trinkets that

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Speaker 4: I still have that I have, like it almost sounds silly,

395
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Speaker 4: I have almost a shine of all the different things

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Speaker 4: that fans had brought me along the way, a little

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Speaker 4: mementos that meant something to them and now means something

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Speaker 4: to me. And I just I feel so overwhelmingly loved

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Speaker 4: and accepted over there in a way that maybe as

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Speaker 4: a foreigner you don't always feel.

401
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Speaker 3: And I think it's the love for country music that

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Speaker 3: does that. So shout out to anyone outside of the

403
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Speaker 3: US as listening.

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Speaker 4: And in the US, come out and go on this

405
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Speaker 4: UK and you're a tour with me.

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Speaker 3: Let's have some fun. I love it.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we can look forward to your upcoming shows. Definitely

408
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Speaker 2: something to be said for the listening experience and Europe.

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Speaker 3: Kaylee.

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Speaker 2: I had one last question for you since we are

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Speaker 2: on I'm taking a walk in Nashville. Do you have

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Speaker 2: a favorite place that you like to take a walk

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Speaker 2: in Nashville?

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Speaker 3: Ooh, in Nashville.

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Speaker 4: I have many places around the world, but in Nashville

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Speaker 4: it would probably be Edwind Warner. I have a song

417
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Speaker 4: called Forge in the Fire that came out, I guess

418
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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, but it was about a house fire

419
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Speaker 4: in twenty seventeen that I went through and I had

420
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Speaker 4: just recently signed as a staff writer. In twenty seventeen,

421
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 4: I was on a rider's retreat when what the fire

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Speaker 4: chief said was potentially a squirrel got into the attic

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Speaker 4: and shoot something and the house caught fire, This little

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Speaker 4: tiny house.

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Speaker 3: That I had.

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Speaker 4: It was in the middle of this nature park Edwin

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Speaker 4: and Percy Warner here in Nashville, And instead of paying

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Speaker 4: for a gym membership, me and my dog would go

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Speaker 4: hiking every day. And I say hiking because it is

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Speaker 4: a lot of rolling, you know, hills and stuff. But

431
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Speaker 4: me and my little twelve pound dog, we would go four, five,

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Speaker 4: six seven miles a day.

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Speaker 3: And having that time outside is just a special special fame.

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Speaker 4: And that little area of Nashville and West Nashville, if

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Speaker 4: you've ever been it is it's something special. You know,

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00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 4: you really can be out in the middle of nowhere,

437
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Speaker 4: in the middle of town. And so if you want

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Speaker 4: a good walk in Nashville, I head the Edwin and.

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Speaker 3: Percy Warren Park and have a good time.

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Speaker 4: But make sure you put a location like Penn where

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Speaker 4: your parking lot is.

442
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Speaker 3: There's like fifty four parking lots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would get lost out there with my husband's

444
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: done those trails so many times, so my buoys rely

445
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Speaker 2: on them. But that's definitely my favorite park in Nashville.

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Speaker 2: It's so pretty rate hiking out there. Yeah. Well, Kayley,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being on Taking a Walk

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Speaker 2: in Nashville today. I am looking forward to all of

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Speaker 2: your upcoming projects and show.

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Speaker 3: Is Thank you, Sarah, you too good to see you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Taking a Walk Nashville with Sarah Harrelson.

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Speaker 1: Please check out our other shows produced by buzz Night

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Speaker 1: Media Productions Comedy Save Me and Music Save Me hosted

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Speaker 1: by Lynn Hoffman, and Take It a Walk hosted by

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Speaker 1: Yours Truly Buzznight. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and are part of the iHeart podcast network