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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Tony Peterson to discuss the

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Speaker 2: science of doing hard things, what happens in our brains

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Speaker 2: when we do that kind of stuff, and what the

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Speaker 2: implications of all of this are for hunting and much more.

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Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light. This week on the show,

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by my frequent collaborator, colleague and bully at

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Speaker 2: Meat Eater. If we're being honest, Tony Peterson, and today

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Speaker 2: we are running down a little rabbit hole that Tony

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Speaker 2: brought to me. He stumbled across some recent research that

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Speaker 2: got him really intrigued about how relatively new science about

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Speaker 2: how the brain works and how the brain changes when

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Speaker 2: we do certain things, how all of that might impact

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Speaker 2: our pursuits as hunters. More specifically, this is taking a

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Speaker 2: look at some interesting parts of the brain that are triggered,

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Speaker 2: that are worked. When we do hard things, when we

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Speaker 2: do particularly hard things that we do not want to do,

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Speaker 2: the brain changes. And when the brain changes, it leads

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Speaker 2: to your ability to do certain things to change as well.

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Speaker 2: And when you understand all that, you understand all these

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Speaker 2: connections between the mental choices and the physical body and

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Speaker 2: then how we live our lives. There's a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of ripple effects from that that could impact our ability

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Speaker 2: to deer hunt as best as we possibly can, to

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Speaker 2: enjoy and be satisfied by deer hunting, or to tackle

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Speaker 2: any kind of difficult challenge, whether that's trying to kill

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Speaker 2: a mature buck or kill a elk on public land,

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Speaker 2: or do a backcountry fishing trip, or do a big

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Speaker 2: hike or a big run or a backpacking trip, or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is you want to do. There is this

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Speaker 2: very interesting mental side of it that now we can

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Speaker 2: connect to the physical part of our brain and think

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Speaker 2: of it a little bit more like a muscle and

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Speaker 2: how you can train a muscle. So Tony dove deep

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Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole for an episode of Foundations, and

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Speaker 2: he wanted to come on this show to riff on

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Speaker 2: it a little bit more and to explore a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of implications of this. What does this mean for

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Speaker 2: how we train? What does this mean about how we

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Speaker 2: pursue deer hunting, the different challenges we tackle, how we

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Speaker 2: set goals, how we teach our kids about hunting, how

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Speaker 2: we find joy in hunting. All of that and much

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Speaker 2: more is covered today. It's in a unique episode. It's

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Speaker 2: a fun one with me and Tony just getting rift

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Speaker 2: together on this and I hope.

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Speaker 3: You enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: All right, joining me now on the show for a

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Speaker 2: little bit of an impromptu podcast. Here is my right

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Speaker 2: hand man, mister Tony Peterson. Hi doing Bud.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing so good, buddy. That couldn't be better. Wow.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine what you must have just been

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Speaker 2: doing before you start recording. That to be the case.

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Speaker 3: I was actually, if people really want to know, I

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Speaker 3: was talking to Randall about a project he wants me

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Speaker 3: to put together with him, which would be how do

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Speaker 3: I put this? Probably less serious than maybe some other

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Speaker 3: projects we might work on, so.

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Speaker 2: That sounds about right for Randall.

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Speaker 3: It is never I always enjoy workshopping with Randall because

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Speaker 3: you never know where it's gonna go. It's always fun. Man.

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Speaker 2: One of the best things that Randal Ever brought into

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Speaker 2: the world was this random social media video he put

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Speaker 2: together for his own channel, I think, where he was

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Speaker 2: at a base ball game and he'd smuggled in a

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Speaker 2: zip block bag of chili to put on a hot dog,

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Speaker 2: and so he's sitting in the chair at this game

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Speaker 2: and then he like squirts cold chili out of a

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Speaker 2: ziplock bag all over the hot dog and it's like

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Speaker 2: all over the place, and he's as happy as a clam.

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Speaker 2: I just laughed so hard watching that.

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Speaker 3: Randall is truly one of a kind. There's only one Randall.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a that's the truth, and there may be

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Speaker 2: only one of a kind of this kind of podcast

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Speaker 2: here today, Tony two. Because I had plans for a

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Speaker 2: show and then you're like, hey, buddy, what about this

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Speaker 2: completely other, off the wall thing that I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: excited about right now. And I decide, like, screw it,

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Speaker 2: let's just see where this goes, Tony. Why do you

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Speaker 2: have the brain on your brain right now?

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Speaker 3: So I've been thinking about this really spurred this is

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Speaker 3: so last weekend my daughters and I went and shed

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Speaker 3: hunted this farm. I have permission hunt southeastern Minnesota I've

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Speaker 3: talked about it a whole bunch. One of my buddies

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Speaker 3: lives down there, and he said there's been a pile

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Speaker 3: of deer there and on the neighbor's property. He's like,

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Speaker 3: you got to get the girls down and go run

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Speaker 3: through there and shed hunt. And so we've had really

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Speaker 3: really mild weather here right, Like we had some cold spells,

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Speaker 3: we had some storms, but we've had you know, several

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Speaker 3: weeks of like above you know, above average, very little

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Speaker 3: snow up here where I live, very little snow over

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Speaker 3: in Wisconsin where I hunt down there, no snow. So

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is going to be amazing, you know,

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Speaker 3: like no snow. Shed hunting is great. Right, So they

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Speaker 3: had a little storm go through the day before we

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Speaker 3: went down there. My buddy said, you know, the fields

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Speaker 3: are pretty wide open still, it shouldn't be too bad.

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Speaker 3: So I drove all the way down there with my daughters.

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Speaker 3: It was cold. We walked out there and went into

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Speaker 3: the spot where there's a there's a trout stream on

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Speaker 3: this on part of this farm, and the deer, if

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Speaker 3: you get a bad enough winter, they'll they'll kind of

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Speaker 3: yard up there. Like on normal winters, you don't see it,

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Speaker 3: but there's all deer that yard up there, and so

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Speaker 3: it's kind of where you start, right, like I find

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Speaker 3: most of my antlers there and then we go do

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Speaker 3: the other stuff. Anyway, we walked in the woods and

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Speaker 3: there's like three inches of fresh powder clinging to everything.

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Speaker 3: So almost instantly I was like, we're probably not going

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Speaker 3: to find antlers, right, you just know, unless you get

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Speaker 3: a big one times or whatever. Yeah, right, And so

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Speaker 3: I told my daughters that, I said, listen, this is

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Speaker 3: going to be a lot tougher than I thought. We

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Speaker 3: had really high hopes, and we we ended up, you know,

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Speaker 3: finding a ton of deer. Sign We had a we

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Speaker 3: had a herd of deer run into us. That was unreal.

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Speaker 3: I mean it was like forty to fifty deer for

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Speaker 3: like ten minutes streaming through the woods around us. I

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Speaker 3: saw five bucks still carrying, and so you know that's

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Speaker 3: another thing when that happens two hours into it and

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Speaker 3: you're like, well we saw five bucks and every one

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Speaker 3: of them had his antlers anymore, right, and three of

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Speaker 3: them were good, you know, good ones, you know. So whatever,

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Speaker 3: So we had a really good time. We you know,

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Speaker 3: hiked through the wood. It kind of became a winter

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Speaker 3: scouting trip kind of talked through like when when I'm

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Speaker 3: with them in those situations, I talk to like, why

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Speaker 3: do you think this spot would be a good spot

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Speaker 3: to hunt? You know, we kind of go through that shit,

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Speaker 3: you know. Anyway, We're driving home and my daughter was like, man,

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Speaker 3: I just didn't think it would be that difficult, And

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Speaker 3: I was like, well, honey, most of what we do

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Speaker 3: actually is like you kind of like they've they've been

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Speaker 3: shown sort of a skewed view of it because I'm

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Speaker 3: guiding them to deer, right, But most of us who

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Speaker 3: went through the process without that just know. And if

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Speaker 3: you you know, if you're not sitting on a great

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Speaker 3: property in a great place, you know what white tail

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Speaker 3: hunting is like, it's not easy. That's why we have

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Speaker 3: a job, right, That's why we do what we do.

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Speaker 3: And so I started thinking about it and it kind

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Speaker 3: of led me down that path of when you when

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Speaker 3: you finally kill a big one. You know, some people

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Speaker 3: go out and get lucky at twelve years old and

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Speaker 3: kill a booner or whatever, which is which which doesn't

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Speaker 3: really it's not like germane to this, but it happens.

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Speaker 3: But mostly people work their way up the process, right,

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Speaker 3: if they don't have a really good spot, they kill

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Speaker 3: some does and little and move up to the two

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Speaker 3: year olds and on up and whatever. But for a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who are really hooked at it at

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Speaker 3: like my age, your age, they had that moment where

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Speaker 3: they finally killed a big one, you know, that one,

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Speaker 3: thirty one, forty whatever, however it came to be, And

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Speaker 3: it's that moment where like before, you're like, this is

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Speaker 3: never going to happen, you know, like I'm never going

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Speaker 3: to get this right, this is never going to happen,

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Speaker 3: and then once it happens, your entire worldview changes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And so I started like digging into that. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: why why does that happen to us? And it turns

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Speaker 3: out there's actually a scientific explanation for a hell of

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Speaker 3: a lot of what we do, and there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of data coming out of it. And it's so I

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Speaker 3: ended up doing this as research for a foundation script

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Speaker 3: that's going to drop second week of March. That's that

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Speaker 3: dives pretty deep into this. But there's a thing in

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Speaker 3: our brains called the anti anterior mid singulate cortex, which

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Speaker 3: means nothing right, but it is a part of our brain,

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Speaker 3: a region of our brain that is essentially responsible for

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Speaker 3: willpower in a roundabout way, okay, And so if you

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Speaker 3: start taking into that, what it does is if you

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Speaker 3: do something difficult that you don't want to do, and

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Speaker 3: like that's a key component of it. You have to

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Speaker 3: not want to do this thing, there has to be

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Speaker 3: some struggle, some discomfort with it. That part gets bigger.

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Speaker 3: That part will actually grow in your brain, and you

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Speaker 3: will be more likely to do more difficult stuff in

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Speaker 3: the future. And you will still you will still kind

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Speaker 3: of dread it, and you'll still feel exhausted before you

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Speaker 3: even do it, but you're more likely to do that.

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Speaker 3: And if that snowball rolls that way, it gets easier

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Speaker 3: to do difficult things. If you don't go through some

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Speaker 3: struggle and you don't experience discomfort and burn through it,

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Speaker 3: that part of your brain, that anterior mid singular cortex

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Speaker 3: gets smaller. And once I read that, I was like,

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Speaker 3: this makes sense. Why when you look at somebody like

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Speaker 3: that in Andy May, who I use as an example

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Speaker 3: all the time you've spend time with Animeme, he's I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's right at the top of the food chain for

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Speaker 3: being one of the best hunters out there, no question.

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Speaker 3: But also when you spend time with him, he's really

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Speaker 3: good at fishing, he's in super good shape, he has

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Speaker 3: he does these things that the average person doesn't do,

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Speaker 3: and you would think that. I think the view on

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Speaker 3: that is that he's just like genetically special or he

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Speaker 3: was like he has something that just other people don't.

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Speaker 3: And what this data around this little region of our

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Speaker 3: brain kind of suggests is, no, we're all very capable

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Speaker 3: of this. We are fighting against what our brain does

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Speaker 3: evolutionary wise, which just tells us to conserve energy and

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Speaker 3: not do failure, not engage in something that will probably

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Speaker 3: result in failure. And so like the whole concept, I

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Speaker 3: was like, man, this is just like so important to

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Speaker 3: being a good hunter in a really weird way.

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Speaker 2: Well, it almost sounds like this portion of the brain

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Speaker 2: could be thought of similarly to a muscle. It's like you,

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Speaker 2: if you work that muscle, if you stress that muscle,

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Speaker 2: it can grow and expand your capabilities. If you let

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Speaker 2: that muscle lay dormant, if you do not stress and

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Speaker 2: work with that muscle, it deteriorates and loses capability and function.

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Speaker 2: So what you're telling me is that this research shows

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Speaker 2: that we can build a willpower and a determination muscle,

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Speaker 2: or we can lose a willpower and determination muscle, and

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Speaker 2: that can impact how we can handle and push through

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Speaker 2: and succeed despite adversity. Is that what this is telling.

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Speaker 3: Us one, that's exactly what this is. And so as

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Speaker 3: a an easy way to kind of frame this up,

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Speaker 3: especially that will show you my age is if you

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Speaker 3: talk about helicopter parenting right, like where you do everything

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Speaker 3: for them for a child and sort of protect them

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Speaker 3: from you know, going out and playing goalie and getting

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Speaker 3: their asses kicked right or you name it, They're not

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Speaker 3: gonna learn how to get through adversity. And this is

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Speaker 3: so this is like a I think inherently we understand

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Speaker 3: this as people right, but we view this the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: Like when I was when I was digging into this,

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Speaker 3: I was like, man, we are looking at this like

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Speaker 3: it's literally an example of itself. So if you if

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Speaker 3: you take this at surface value and you're like, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna grow this part of my brain that I can

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Speaker 3: barely pronounce and become the kind of person who can

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Speaker 3: free solo l cap and do a whole bunch of shit,

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Speaker 3: you won't do it like you'll be like, that's that's

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Speaker 3: too much work. I'm not gonna do that, because you

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Speaker 3: would look at this like a thing that's just as

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Speaker 3: hard as running that one hundred mile marathon or whatever.

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Speaker 3: But this, like you said this, this, if you compare

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Speaker 3: it to a muscle, right like, you don't get jacked

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Speaker 3: by doing three curls, right Like, You're not gonna You're

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Speaker 3: not gonna have awesome biceps because you do three curls

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Speaker 3: with a fifteen pound dumbell. That's just not how it works.

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Speaker 3: You have to do a lot of small movements.

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Speaker 2: And so you're kind of blowing my mind. Though right

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Speaker 2: now my whole training programs don't have to change.

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Speaker 3: But anyways, I hate to break it to you, Marcus,

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Speaker 3: but if you want to be jacked, you got to

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Speaker 3: put in the work.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that explains some things we don't.

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Speaker 3: But seriously, though we don't. We frame this stuff up

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Speaker 3: in a very human nature esque way, right like, because

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Speaker 3: the social media thing is a good way to look

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Speaker 3: at this, where everybody who gives us fitness advice is

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Speaker 3: already jacked or in really great shape. The people who

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Speaker 3: are telling you how to hunt or that you know

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Speaker 3: that we looked up to or whatever. They already went

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Speaker 3: through this, you know, And so it's easy to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you guys already have that, or like they already

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Speaker 3: do that or whatever. But the reality is is there

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Speaker 3: is a way to condition yourself to get better at

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Speaker 3: doing difficult stuff. And what we do is we approach

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Speaker 3: it wrong a lot of times. Right. This is why

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Speaker 3: fad diets. This is why you know, somebody will come

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Speaker 3: out and say you have to hunt this way, right,

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Speaker 3: like I run cameras this way, or I hunt buck

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Speaker 3: beds exclusively, or I do this and it's silver bullet thing. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's a promise, right, but it's not. It's not how

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Speaker 3: you get better like you have to. There's there's several

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Speaker 3: steps to this, and I cover this in that Foundations episode,

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Speaker 3: but the first one that really stuck with me was

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Speaker 3: you have to stop negotiating with yourself. What do you mean? Man?

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Speaker 3: So if you think about there's there's a phenomenon that

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Speaker 3: happens with people when they go to the gym and

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Speaker 3: they want to get on the treadmill and start working

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Speaker 3: toward whatever. That is a five k, a ten k,

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Speaker 3: a marathon just a twenty minutes at this speed. And

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Speaker 3: so a lot of times, Okay, you go buy the

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Speaker 3: workout clothes, you buy the pre workouts, your water bottle,

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Speaker 3: you download your podcasts or you plan to you know,

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Speaker 3: connect to the Bluetooth and watch your show, and you've

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Speaker 3: set up You've set up this this thing that you

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Speaker 3: have to do or you know you should do, and

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Speaker 3: it's predicated on a whole bunch of stuff that isn't

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Speaker 3: really you know, germane to the task. It can help you, right,

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Speaker 3: like you know, listening to a podcast or whatever helps

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Speaker 3: running or like for a lot of people it does, right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: lifting weights and you listen to music, that kind of shit.

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Speaker 3: But the more that you build into that where you

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Speaker 3: can be like, oh, I don't have this today, so

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Speaker 3: I can't do that right, Like for whatever reason the

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Speaker 3: treadmills glitching out and you can't connect to it. Well,

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Speaker 3: now I can't do my thing.

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Speaker 2: I can't do it.

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Speaker 3: So we negotiate with ourselves. And on the white tail front,

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Speaker 3: this is you know, this is something I talk about

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Speaker 3: all the time where the primary method we're fed by

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Speaker 3: a lot of people is to stay out of the

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Speaker 3: woods until the cameras show their daylighting. The weather's going

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Speaker 3: to be perfect, and then you go in and hunt,

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Speaker 3: and so we look at that and go you have

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Speaker 3: a let's say it's October tenth. You have a beautiful

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Speaker 3: evening and you could hunt right, but your cameras have

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Speaker 3: been dead, and you have three stands up and you're like, well,

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Speaker 3: there's a west wind, so only two of those stands

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Speaker 3: are even worthwhile and I haven't got a picture of

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Speaker 3: a good one in three weeks. You're going to negotia

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Speaker 3: right out of that instead of going, all right, well,

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Speaker 3: these cameras have been dead, but what about this part

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Speaker 3: of my farm? Or what about the water hole that

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Speaker 3: I haven't been into this year? Or I wonder if

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Speaker 3: like instead of looking at it to solve that problem

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Speaker 3: with a little step, right, Like if you go hunt

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Speaker 3: that October tenth, you're not changing your rout outlook probably right,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's kind of a reset moment. But it's

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Speaker 3: easy for us to negotiate or our way out of

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Speaker 3: the work. Yeah, right, Or like think about it winter

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Speaker 3: scouting wise, right, Like we're talking about winter scouting like crazy.

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Speaker 3: I've been going a lot lately. It is very easy

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Speaker 3: for me to look at winter scouting and go that

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Speaker 3: is so loosely tethered to my fall success that I

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Speaker 3: don't need to do this because I'm going to come

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Speaker 3: back in August and I'm going to hang cameras and

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Speaker 3: I'm going to hang stands. But every time I do it,

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Speaker 3: I learn something, Like when I was with the girls

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Speaker 3: last weekend, I found some stuff where I was like,

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Speaker 3: I've hunted this farm since I was fifteen, and I'm

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Speaker 3: going to set up here for the first time in

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Speaker 3: my life. Life that kind of stuff. And so it's

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Speaker 3: we make these big we think that these changes are

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Speaker 3: have to be these wholesale, big changes in our lives,

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Speaker 3: and with deer hunting we do this all the time.

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Speaker 3: But really it's those small steps, but holding yourself accountable

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Speaker 3: to them, and then you get that part of your

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Speaker 3: brain going in the direction you want because you have

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Speaker 3: to do things that you don't want to do to

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Speaker 3: get this to grow.

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Speaker 2: What is the like, what does that? What does this

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Speaker 2: look like in real life in deer hunting. You kind

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Speaker 2: of lay out some examples there, but I'm curious because

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Speaker 2: you know the research that you pointed to at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: I saw a little bit of a YouTube clip talking

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Speaker 2: about just for a little bit of context. And one

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Speaker 2: of the key things mentioned in that, and you mentioned

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Speaker 2: this as well, was that kind of the crux of

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Speaker 2: this is that you do the hard thing despite not

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Speaker 2: wanting to do it, right, Can you lay out a

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Speaker 2: little bit more of an example of what that looks

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Speaker 2: like when it comes to like, because I want to

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Speaker 2: go hunting, so me choosing not to go hunting, I

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Speaker 2: might ostensibly say, well, I want to go hunting on

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Speaker 2: October tenth, but the conditions aren't right and I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to be smart, so I'm not going to do it.

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Speaker 2: If I do it, well, then I'm kind of doing

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Speaker 2: the thing I wanted to do. So does that count?

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Speaker 2: Does that not count? What does that like? What does

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Speaker 2: this look like? If you were spell the perfect example

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Speaker 2: of how to work this muscle according to this research.

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Speaker 3: So on that example, it's a great example. Right, everybody

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Speaker 3: wants to hunt. Everybody sitting here in March wants to

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Speaker 3: go bow hunting more than they don't. But when the

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Speaker 3: fall comes and you can say it's a better decision

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Speaker 3: for me to not do this. What you're saying, then,

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Speaker 3: is the thing I care most about is killing that

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Speaker 3: big buck, Like that's why I'm there, right, But we

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Speaker 3: have lots of ways to kill big Bucks. But if

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Speaker 3: you go meet that challenge and go, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to figure this out on October tenth. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to go do this, that makes you a better

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Speaker 3: deer hunter that as a person, And it's not the

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Speaker 3: thing about this is it's not just making you a

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Speaker 3: better deer hunter. Like when you look at what this

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Speaker 3: part of your brain does and the willpower thing holding

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Speaker 3: yourself accountable. If you picked up a guitar and it

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Speaker 3: was really hard for you to learn how to play,

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Speaker 3: but you stuck with it and you're like, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to just figure out how to play a freaking g

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Speaker 3: chord seamlessly, right, That's going to make that part of

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Speaker 3: your brain grow, and that will help you become a

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Speaker 3: better deer hunter because you're more willing to face difficult

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Speaker 3: things and get through the discomfort. That's the whole point

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Speaker 3: of this thing. We look at it so pursuit specific,

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Speaker 3: because you know we're talking about deer hunting, but it's

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Speaker 3: really life choices. Right. Like the example that I gave

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Speaker 3: this in this podcast that I wrote was it always

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Speaker 3: amazes me at meat Eater. I've worked in the outdoor

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Speaker 3: space in some capacity since two thousand and three. Meat

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Speaker 3: Eater is full of more people who have authored books.

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Speaker 3: Like I can be sitting in a room meat Eater

393
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Speaker 3: trivia or whatever, and I can look around. I can

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Speaker 3: be like, that guy's written books. She's written a book.

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Speaker 3: That guy's written a book, like crazy high, Like they're

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Speaker 3: like the prevalence of that is way too high for

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Speaker 3: a random sample, right, And then you can be like, well,

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Speaker 3: not only that guy hasn't written a book, but he's

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Speaker 3: run one hundred mile mountain marathon. That guy's running half

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Speaker 3: in the mountains. And you start going through this and

401
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Speaker 3: it's the same people doing stuff that most people think

402
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Speaker 3: you can't do. And so people look at that and

403
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Speaker 3: they go, well, they're special people, right, And I'm not

404
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Speaker 3: discounting that there aren't advantages and there's there isn't genetics

405
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Speaker 3: at play here and all kinds of stuff, because of

406
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Speaker 3: course there is. Like life, life is not fair, sure, right,

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Speaker 3: just isn't. But when you look at people, you know,

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Speaker 3: the David Goggins and the Campaigns of the World or whatever,

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Speaker 3: the Steve Vanella's, they do a lot of difficult stuff

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Speaker 3: and I can promise you that part of it is

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Speaker 3: because they've just leaned into those uncomfortable, you know, struggles

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Speaker 3: and gotten through them. And when you do that, like

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Speaker 3: just like when you kill that first big buck, like

414
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Speaker 3: when I killed my first big one, I was like,

415
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Speaker 3: it felt like the world shifted for me. Yeah, like

416
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Speaker 3: literally did it. And I have never not killed big

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Speaker 3: bucks or had really good chances to kill big bucks since,

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Speaker 3: and before that it felt literally impossible.

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Speaker 2: Impossible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so and that's another way to look

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Speaker 3: at that too. And I wrote about this is with

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Speaker 3: with white tail hunting, we talk from a place where

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Speaker 3: it's like we're pretty comfortable trophy hunting in a lot

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Speaker 3: of ways, right, Like you're you're going to set standards

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Speaker 3: that are that are pretty high because you know you'll

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Speaker 3: probably get there, or you know you probably have a

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Speaker 3: good shot to hold out for whatever. That is a

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Speaker 3: lot of the people who are listening to this, and

429
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Speaker 3: a lot of people who are starting out that don't

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Speaker 3: go through that process of working up through the deer

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00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 3: and killing some dumb ones first, killing the easy ones first.

432
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 3: They don't get there and they don't learn that, and

433
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 3: so you get to that negotiation stage where you're like,

434
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,959
Speaker 3: not only did it not pay off before, I know

435
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 3: it's not going to pay off now. And it's like, no,

436
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 3: killing that two and a half year old when you're

437
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 3: three years into it is this thing that's how you

438
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 3: kill big ones five years down the road from now

439
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 3: because you're you're just working through it. And it happens

440
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: with running, it happens with everything, and it's just fascinating

441
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 3: to me because we're so good at making excuses, you know,

442
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: like for whatever, like health is like such a big one,

443
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: but we are so good at talking ourselves out of

444
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 3: not doing something and being like because I don't have

445
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 3: the genetics, I don't have the metabolism or whatever. It's like, no, man,

446
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 3: We're kind of all born with this thing in our

447
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: brain that we can work on, but we have to

448
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 3: consciously be uncomfortable, Like we literally have to force ourselves

449
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: a struggle.

450
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: It's funny. I've kind of stumbled into this realization about

451
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: my career and a friend of mine was wrestling with

452
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: a career decision and I just kind of off the

453
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 2: cuff shared this thing that I had kind of figured

454
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: out in my own life but hadn't necessarily like articulated it,

455
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: and I think it applies to what we're talking about

456
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: here too. I've kind of figured out that whenever I'm

457
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: presented with two choices for my direction in life or

458
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: my career, usually whichever one makes me the most uncomfortable,

459
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 2: which everyone scares me the most, that's the choice I

460
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: should take. That's the path that I should pursue. And

461
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: I've never really known why that's been the case, but

462
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: it's worked out so far. I've done the scary thing,

463
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: I've taken the big leap, I've done the uncomfortable, and

464
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: it seems to be maybe it's doing what you're saying.

465
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: Maybe this is in part that muscle growing because I'm

466
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 2: taking on that next challenge or the skit, the thing

467
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: that is higher risk but maybe higher reward, and that

468
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: has seemed to guide me, and I wonder if the

469
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 2: same is true on a smaller scale when it comes

470
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: to our hunting lives or or whatever other pursuit we

471
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: have in that you know, I don't know. This is

472
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: another one. I don't know where I heard this, but

473
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: I hammer it into my kids all time. One of

474
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: the most important things you can do is learn to

475
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: become comfortable being uncomfortable. Like that's one of the key

476
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: traits I'm always talking to the boys about, like we're

477
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: outside hiking or hunting or fishing or anything, like, guys

478
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: is like if they start complaining if something's not going

479
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: right or if the weather's not comfortable, Like, hey, guys,

480
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 2: what's happening right now? This is good? Like what do

481
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 2: you mean this is good?

482
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: This sucks?

483
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: This isn't We're not catching any fish, or we're cold

484
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: or we're tired, and like, no, right now, you are becoming,

485
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: you are learning, You're be getting better being comfortable, being uncomfortable,

486
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: and that is like a superpower for the rest of

487
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 2: your life. And and I think that I think that

488
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 2: holds true for a lot of stuff, right.

489
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean, if you if you went

490
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 3: back in your life when you got out of college,

491
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: you had a good job with a company that was

492
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: on on the rise, right, yeah, and you ended up

493
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: walking away and starting a hunting podcast. Pretty stupid, right,

494
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: It's it's stupid in the way people look at I'm

495
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: gonna run a marathon as stupid, like because to them,

496
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 3: that's the unsafe, scary choice. And so again I need

497
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: I need to say this because I know that people

498
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: are going to default to looking at this in a

499
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 3: negative way. It doesn't have it generally doesn't have to

500
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 3: be that big choice, that big choice you made. You

501
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 3: might have made ten of them in your life that

502
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: you didn't recognize before that that led you to be

503
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: comfortable enough with that you make that decision, and now

504
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 3: you're comfortable with a bunch more stuff. Right, Like you're

505
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: comfortable and it's and it bleeds into life. And so

506
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: when you see people who are like self starters, right

507
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: who start a business or they go out on their

508
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: own and they and they do something that sort of

509
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: deviates from the path like when we were growing up,

510
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: like you know, my dad, you like, you get a

511
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: job at IBM and you work forty years and you

512
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: get your pension or whatever, and like that's the safe route.

513
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: You don't you don't go try to be an outdoor writer.

514
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: Like that's stupid. When you when you make those decisions

515
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: on a small scale, you you can go right back

516
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: to really really little stuff and it's going to keep

517
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 3: that snowball going in the right way, or keep your

518
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 3: momentum going in the other way where you'll you're shy

519
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: away from that stuff, and so there's there's like a

520
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 3: it's so much easier to talk about this in the

521
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: context of like exercise or diet or something, because it's

522
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 3: just sort of like a little bit easier to understand

523
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: because not everybody wants to get better at deer hunting.

524
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: Like a lot of people just want to kill big ones,

525
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: and we kind of have the formula for that, and

526
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,239
Speaker 3: so like that's that's fine. But if you're sitting there

527
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: and you're like, why am I not better at this?

528
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: Like why don't I have the kind of success I want,

529
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: it's probably because you're partially not leaning into struggle in

530
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: some ways, right, Like it's just just think about it

531
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: from the perspective of if if you have and I've

532
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 3: done this to myself a million times, if you have

533
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 3: a farm, you know, a lease permission based grandma owns it, whatever,

534
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: where you can control the variables, where you can be

535
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: like I put a stand here in the corner of

536
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 3: the field because they always come through here. And I

537
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 3: put a stand there back on the ridge because they

538
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: run that, and I have a stand down at the bottom,

539
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: and then you're going to go out and hunt. But

540
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: those stands are just not producing you can take the

541
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: easy way and go sit those stands where you can

542
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: go find those deer. And we know that the people

543
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: who just get comfortable with that mobile set up, that

544
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 3: mobile process are just generally going to do better everywhere

545
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: with hunting and even out west when they go out west.

546
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: And it's like little things like that, just the same

547
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: as you know, when the saddle movement came on super strong.

548
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: It's a little bit different now because it's so it's

549
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: like ubiquitous across deer hunters, But when it first came

550
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 3: out and you try them, that's like an awkward thing,

551
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: like it's literally physically like discomfort there to some extent

552
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: until you figure it out. And it's also just a

553
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: process where you're like this, it feels like you're failing

554
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: because it's uncomfortable, But you go hang it out of

555
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: a saddle one time and you don't You're like, I

556
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 3: don't love this, and then you do it ten times,

557
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 3: and then you go on a trip and then you've

558
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 3: you've done it one hundred times in the last two seasons,

559
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: and it's just a thing you were very comfortable with

560
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 3: that helps you be better at this thing you love,

561
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: but you don't see that.

562
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: You know something that just kind of came to me,

563
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: which I think is very interesting when you when you

564
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: think about this the way you're presenting it, when you

565
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: look at this idea of the ability to do hard things,

566
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: of the ability to struggle through adversity, the ability to

567
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: achieve goals despite you know, seemingly insurmountable odds. I think

568
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: that some people think that that is tied to a

569
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: personality trait, like some people are that kind of person,

570
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 2: some people are not that kind of person. And there's

571
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: some people just think like I'm just not that guy,

572
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: Like I'm just not I'm I don't do that. I

573
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: play it safe. I have never been able to do that.

574
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: I always fail or what it hasn't gone my way,

575
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: that's just not for me. I think some people get

576
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: into like that rut of thinking. And what this study shows.

577
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: What this research shows is that this is actually available

578
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: to anyone. Like anyone, every every one of us has

579
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: this part of the brain that can be worked on,

580
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: that can be grown. Every single one of us can

581
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: become the kind of person who can who can beat

582
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: insurmountable odds. Every single one of us has like the

583
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: physical mental part of our brain that can actually be

584
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: changed to become the kind of person who acts like

585
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: David Goggins, you know, extreme example, but that's available to

586
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: every one of us. But I but I think that

587
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: my intuition is that you tell me if this is

588
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: right or wrong, because you've you've dove into this further

589
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: than I have. But my guess is that if you

590
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: try to do this, like if you jump right into

591
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: the deep end, you are, like, there must be a

592
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: risk to go going to like, uh, level ten right

593
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: out the gate, right, Like I imagine it's probably smarter

594
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: start at level one and do that hard thing and

595
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: be able to do that and then move up to

596
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: two and like stack your way up. Are there any

597
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: like specific examples in life that you can think of

598
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: where I could start working my grit muscle in the

599
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 2: brain again metaphorically to be able to become this kind

600
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: of person. Like I want to become the kind of

601
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: person that can do one hundred mile race. I want

602
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: to become the kind of person who can handle all

603
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: those all day sits and make the tough choices on

604
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: my deer hunts and not quit when it gets tough.

605
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: I want to be the kind of person who can

606
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: do the ten day backcountry elk counting trip in the

607
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: high Lpine that has always looked amazing. But man, that's

608
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: just over. It's out of my pay grade. I want

609
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: to be that guy. I'm assuming I can't just snap

610
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 2: my fingers and become it. What are some ways to

611
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: start that process?

612
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: In your view? It's like everything, right, So if you

613
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: want to if you want to lose weight, you've never

614
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: been on a diet, never pay attention, and you drink

615
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: three mountain dews a day. What's the first start? Right?

616
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: You don't have to you don't have to eat kale

617
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: and bland boiled chicken every day, right, Like, you can

618
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: start with that, and once you do that and get

619
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: comfortable with it, that's just like a little tiny baby step.

620
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: So I actually wrote about you brought up all day sits.

621
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: I wrote about that in that in that podcast where

622
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: we talk about all day sits. Like, I actually really

623
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: like all day sets. Now, there was a long time

624
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: in my deer hunting career where I could not do one.

625
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: I just couldn't. I couldn't get past it. I would

626
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: talk myself out of it, you know, eleven o'clock hits.

627
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: I'm like I'm finding a reason to leave. Now I'm

628
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: finding a reason to stay. And so what I what

629
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: I said in that is like I one of the

630
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: things that has changed how I deer hunt is Okay,

631
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: I figure out how to do the all day sets

632
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: because I have a lot of faith in a rot spot.

633
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: But then you go hunt somewhere in September and it's

634
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: going to get, you know, eighty five degrees in the day.

635
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 3: But I'm on a trip in North Dakota, or I'm somewhere,

636
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: I'm not home. I can't go home and mold a

637
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 3: lawn and take care of the garage or whatever. Then

638
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: you're like, well, what else are you going to do?

639
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 3: And so I started bargaining with myself on those trips

640
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: where I'd be like, you know, I really only think

641
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: it's going to be good till like nine in the morning,

642
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: But I'm going to force myself to sit till ten

643
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 3: or I probably don't need to be there till three

644
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: o'clock in the afternoon, but I'm going to go in

645
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: at one thirty because i have nothing else to do.

646
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: And when you do that thing that you don't want

647
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: to do, you know how it is like you go

648
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: out there and eventually you get in there at one

649
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: o'clock and at one fifteen a buck cruises through or

650
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: a buck comes into water, and then you're like, you

651
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: get that reward for doing that thing that you didn't

652
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: want to do, and then you're one step closer to

653
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: an all days sit during the rut, and it's a

654
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: conditioning thing. So I kind of I guess another way

655
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: to look at it would be like, you know, I

656
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: love bird dogs, like I'm I have puppy fever bad

657
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 3: right now, Like I want to get a new pup.

658
00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to get one in the spring

659
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: of twenty seven because I love training them. But people

660
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: will ask me about it, and I'm like, I always

661
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: just look at a dog now because I don't want

662
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 3: to fail in that, Like that's so important to me

663
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: to have a really good dog that I have to

664
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: train that sucker for two years hard, Like you know,

665
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: by hard I mean consistent, right, Like I can't I

666
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: can't train an eight week old puppy really hard, but

667
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: I can train them a little bit. But when you

668
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: look at that, if on the outset, you're like, man,

669
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: two years, Like that's a big commitment. But when you

670
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: break it down into a daily commitment. When I have

671
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: an eight week old puppy and I'm treat training it,

672
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: I might do three minutes of training in an entire

673
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 3: day to get it to learn how to sit and

674
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: start to stay or start on recall or something. And

675
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 3: it's just like everything else, it's not we look at

676
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: it like we look at it in its entirety and

677
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: it's too much. You know, right, you want to write

678
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: a book. You're you're in the middle of that process.

679
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: What's chapter one, what's the what's the outline? First, it's like, okay,

680
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 3: now I need to knock out chapter one. Okay, you

681
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: did that, you do chapter two. Like I always tell

682
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: people who are like, oh man, you know I can

683
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: only run three miles, and like, well, if you can

684
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: run three, you can run four. You just haven't, you know, Like,

685
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 3: it's not like your body won't do it, it's your

686
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 3: mind telling you to not do it. And so with

687
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: deer hunting, I look at that stuff. There are a

688
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 3: million different ways that we can get a little bit better.

689
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, I've been preaching about this

690
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: a ton. People will talk about like you brought this

691
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: up earlier, Like I don't want to hunt on October tenth,

692
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 3: because I'm not going to kill a big one, Like

693
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: I don't believe that at all. And it just like

694
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: I don't believe that hunting in the heat, hunting in

695
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,919
Speaker 3: the wind, hunting in the rain, whatever thing that keeps

696
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 3: you out hunting in the mornings in the early season.

697
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: I think every one of those things is solvable because

698
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 3: I've been on enough trips where I had to try.

699
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: And the problem with it is is we do this

700
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: and you're mostly going to fail, just like you would

701
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: mostly fail if you try to take the safer out

702
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: and didn't go do those. But you get enough success

703
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 3: and you work through it, so you don't look at

704
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 3: it like this is a thing talking me out of going.

705
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 3: This is a thing convincing me how to figure it out.

706
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 3: You know. It's like everything, so much of the good

707
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: stuff in life is like predicated on that long game consistency,

708
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: and it's hard. Well.

709
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: I like the fact that there's so much crossover effect here,

710
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: you know, like if my favorite thing in life is

711
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: deer hunting, what I think is pretty huge to consider

712
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: with this is that there's a ton of stuff that

713
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 2: we can do in the rest of our lives outside

714
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: of deer hunting, that given this explicitly will help us

715
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: with our deer hunting, you know, experience and success. Like,

716
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: when I consider this, I start thinking about this quote.

717
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: I think it was from James Clear maybe he wrote

718
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: that great book about habits Atomic habits. I'm pretty sure

719
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: he said that you know every choice you make. You know,

720
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: every time you're faced with a choice, you are voting

721
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 2: with your actions for the kind of person you want

722
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: to be. So I frequently think about, like when when

723
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: you know, whenever I happen to have like the actual

724
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 2: awareness of what I'm doing, and I've got a choice

725
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: ahead of me, I will think, like, what's the kind

726
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: of person I want to be, and what would they

727
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: do in this moment? And the kind of person I

728
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 2: would want to be would do x. So for example,

729
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: a tiny thing. I talked about this with Michael Easter

730
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: on a podcast a few weeks ago. He said that

731
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: the stats are that two percent of people in America

732
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: take the stairs. Whether there's an elevator, escalator, or stairs available,

733
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: only two percent of the American population will actually take

734
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: the stairs. The rest will take the easy way. Ever

735
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 2: since I started hearing that, I've started like, I always

736
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: take the stairs. I'm like, I'm the kind of person

737
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: that takes the stairs. That's the kind of person I

738
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: want to be. I'm going to do it, and I

739
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: like doing it. And then when I'm doing I'm thinking

740
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 2: to myself, you know what. That's like the tiniest, most insignificant,

741
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: silly thing, but it's a vote for the kind of

742
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: person I want to be. Same thing like the alarm

743
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 2: clock goes off and most people want to hit snooze again,

744
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: but you know what, I'm going to be the kind

745
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: of person. I want to be, the kind of person

746
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: that doesn't hit snooze. I'm up right when I say

747
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to be. I foll through on my commitments.

748
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to be that kind of person. Tiny, small, silly,

749
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: insignificant thing. But what you're telling me is that that

750
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: stuff squeezes that muscle a little bit, which leads to

751
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 2: the next thing, which leads to the next thing, which

752
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: leads to you saying, you know what, I want to

753
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: be the kind I've never been the kind of person

754
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 2: that could run a race. That sounds scary. I'm horrible

755
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: at that. I can only run three miles. It's very

756
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: funny you mentioned this, Tony, because before I did my

757
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: first half marathon, I had never run more than three miles.

758
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 2: I remember the first time I went for a four

759
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: mile race, I texted my buddy or four mile run.

760
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, guys, I've never ran four miles. I didn't

761
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: know it's possible. So it's weird that you said that.

762
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: Maybe I told this to you because I'd never done it,

763
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: didn't know if it's possible for my body. Sure enough,

764
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: it was.

765
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a people say that to me a lot.

766
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 3: I hear that a lot, Like I talked to a

767
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 3: lot of people at the gym, and I'm always like,

768
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: all right, just envision a really slow, very hungry wolf

769
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: is after you, and in four miles you have safety, right,

770
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: so that whatever you're you know, I don't care hustle

771
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: you are. Let's say you do ten minute miles, right,

772
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 3: that wolf does eleven minute miles, right. But you would

773
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: make it to four. You just would. It's not that

774
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 3: your body won't do it, it's that your mind says you can.

775
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: And so I know I know that, I know you

776
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: do this a lot, and I think it's a really

777
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 3: important thing. And the research indicates that it is as well.

778
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: Setting goals. You talk about this a lot. I think

779
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 3: that I think I think saying that is like off

780
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 3: putting to a lot of people, right, But it's not

781
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: the way I look at it. In deer hunting is

782
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 3: the thing that we do is we go I want

783
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 3: X buck, I want y buck, right, Like you know,

784
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 3: I talk about this all the time. People are like,

785
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm going I want to go on my first l

786
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 3: hunt because I want to shoot three hundred and fifty

787
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: inch bowl And you're like, that's the wrong goal. It

788
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: just is. And when we do it with deer hunting,

789
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: it's easy, right because the target buck thing the hit

790
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 3: list buck thing, and we see people do this a lot,

791
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 3: like that's the buck I want to kill, or I

792
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: only kill five and a half year olds. For most people,

793
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 3: it would be better to set goals like I'm going

794
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: to hunt ten days in September, ten days in October.

795
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: I'm going to do three all days sits in a

796
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 3: row in November, or I'm going to kill a deer

797
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 3: from the ground.

798
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 2: Yes, process, process focused goals, not outcome focus.

799
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 3: Right, you have to write things that you don't want

800
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 3: to do, like let's say you always get into the

801
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 3: box blne That's fine, right, But if you're like I

802
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 3: want to get better as a deer hunter, you could

803
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: go into the season be like, I'm going to kill

804
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 3: one deer from the ground, dough buck, whatever, take your pick,

805
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: take your poison, whatever. That kind of thing is something

806
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 3: where you're like, it's easier for you to go in

807
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 3: that redneck because it's comfortable, it's awesome, you're going to

808
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: see deer, it's it's everything that a lot of people

809
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: want on a deer hunting But it's not going to

810
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 3: make you. It's not going to grow that muscle. Right.

811
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: But if you're like, I'm going to go do this

812
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 3: thing that I don't really want to do, it will

813
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 3: help you out, Like it just will.

814
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: So how do how do we balance this or how

815
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: do we reckon with this idea that we're talking about

816
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: right here, which is the intuitive sense which is now

817
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: confirmed with the research that by doing hard things that

818
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: you don't want to do, you can do more hard

819
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: things in the future, you can have more success or

820
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: push through challenges, et cetera, et cetera. Can like that's

821
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: this is the value of doing hard things and choosing

822
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: that uncomfortable path. But on the flip side, something you

823
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: and I have both talked about over the years has

824
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: been also recognizing the need to still find joy and

825
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: fun in hunting, and to not always be obsessed with

826
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: that end outcome or pursuing success at the expense of

827
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 2: everything else. How do we hold these two things in

828
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: two parts of our brain at the same time.

829
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: So I think a great way to frame it up

830
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 3: is to look at that quote. It's not the pursuit

831
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 3: of happiness, it's the happiness of pursuit. I like that.

832
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: So we think that one hundred and fifty incher will

833
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 3: make us happy, But it depends entirely on how you

834
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 3: kill it. If you don't do any real work for it. Yeah,

835
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: it's great, you can brag, you can send around the pictures,

836
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean the same thing to you as

837
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: one that you worked really hard for. And I keep

838
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 3: thinking about this. I mean this slapped me right up

839
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 3: on right upside the head this year when I finally

840
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 3: killed a good one in Wisconsin, and I was like,

841
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 3: that's my favorite deer I've killed in a long time.

842
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: And I've killed bigger deer. I've killed deer on public

843
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 3: in different ways. There's been a lot of dead deer.

844
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: I've done that, and it was because for eighteen years

845
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: I kept going over there and getting my ass kicked

846
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 3: and getting close and just not making it happen. And

847
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: then it happened. And it's like it's hard to it's

848
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 3: hard to sell that, right, Like it's hard. It's hard

849
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 3: for people to get behind the thing, Like I don't

850
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: really want to fail for eighteen years to feel good.

851
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: But at we look at it and go, we're I

852
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: think we're focusing on the wrong thing. And I've been

853
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 3: bitching about this a lot with the trophy hunting thing

854
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 3: is how you do it should be more important than

855
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 3: what you kill, you know what I mean? And I

856
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: think that that messaging is tough, right, It's just tough

857
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: because like our egos, we want we want the big deer.

858
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: But I always look at this and go, I don't

859
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: people think that I like to run. I hate I

860
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: hate it. I sit there, I run all the time,

861
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 3: and I literally hate it every time before I go

862
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 3: because I don't want to do it. But I never

863
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: ever ever regret doing it, just like getting up to hunt,

864
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 3: like if you know Turkey season's coming up, It's a

865
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 3: great example. If you get one of those seasons, it's

866
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: just a grind and those three thirty alarms, four o'clock alarms,

867
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: you're like, I don't want to get up today. It's

868
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: going to be hot. The ticks are out right on

869
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: down the line. You never regret being out there at sunrise.

870
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: It's worth it. You did something that you didn't really

871
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: want to do, even though if you ask me right now,

872
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 3: and like, I'll get up every every morning in Turkey

873
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: season because I want to go so bad. It's different

874
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: when you actually get there, and so you have to

875
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 3: just do it. Like you just have to find these

876
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: things where you're like, even though I don't want to

877
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 3: do that thing, I know it would be good for

878
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: me because that is the thing that grows that muscle.

879
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 3: That's just it.

880
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's also an interesting thing to think about.

881
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: And I don't know if this is like a cultural

882
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: moment we're in or if just every individual goes through

883
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: this process themselves and I just happen to be in

884
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 2: that moment and I'm noticing it in more people because

885
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: of that. But I think a lot of folks seem to,

886
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: you know, go through the typical trajectories where you want

887
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: to you know, figure it out, then you want to

888
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: shoot a bunch of stuff, and you want to shoot

889
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 2: a big thing, then you want to shoot the biggest thing,

890
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: and YadA, YadA, YadA, And so I do feel like

891
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of folks now that are starting to

892
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: have the realization like the shine is coming off of

893
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 2: the booner bucks a little bit, or like you got

894
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: to kill a big one hundred and fifty in five

895
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: year old that's starting to not foreveryone. There's lots of

896
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: people that still love that. And don't get me wrong,

897
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: I love shooting a big buck too, but it's not

898
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: quite as alluring as it used to be for some people.

899
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: I think some people are starting to see like, oh,

900
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: there's more to this than just that, and I think

901
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: this is like a one or a great remind of

902
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 2: an alternative solution. Like some people might say, oh, wow,

903
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm not getting as jacked up as I used to

904
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 2: when I shoot a one fifty because I've now killed

905
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 2: ten one fifties and yet still a lot of work

906
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: and yeah, I still got to put a lot of

907
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: time into my farm and I do all this stuff,

908
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: but just not like what it used to be. It's

909
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: I wish, you know, someone said to me recently that

910
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 2: they wish they could feel the way they feel the

911
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: way they felt when they killed their first year again

912
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: because I've never been that excited again. Or they wish

913
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 2: they could feel that way when they killed their first

914
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: big buck again, because that's it's not the same anymore, right.

915
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: I think this is a reminder of a way to

916
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 2: get that again, which is the big antlers sometimes can

917
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: be replaced by the new hard, the new challenge. You

918
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: could have a first time on the ground. You could

919
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: have a first time with a traditional boat. You can

920
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: have a first time without trial cameras. You could have

921
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: a first time on public land. You could have a

922
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: first time on a float trip in public land in

923
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: a new state. Like, there's all these different ways that

924
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: you can do the new hard thing, which can make

925
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: you feel like a child again and make you struggle again,

926
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 2: but then have that same corresponding joy and excitement again

927
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 2: having done the hard thing.

928
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: Dude, when you when you said that, they said that,

929
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 3: the first thing I thought was you're just not looking

930
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 3: for it, because and then and then in my head

931
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: I thought, pick up a trad bow and just go try. Yeah,

932
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 3: because when you step to the range with that recur

933
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 3: for the first time and you stand there at twenty

934
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 3: yards and you couldn't pop a balloon out of seven

935
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: qu quivers of arrows, like all of sudden things change.

936
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: And when you're in that tree stand and you have

937
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 3: a bow that's sixty inches tip to tip and you

938
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: can't shoot behind your tree now and he walks behind you,

939
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 3: everything's different. Like you've you've put yourself in a totally

940
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: different world. I would say that the reason that people

941
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 3: say that and believe that, like I wish I could

942
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: feel that again, is because we we let our egos

943
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 3: have a say and we default to what we know

944
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: will work. Yeah, right, like we just we have a

945
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: hard time getting out of our own way that way,

946
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: but that you know, it's hard. This concept is a

947
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: little bit hard with deer hunting because of stuff like that,

948
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: Like we know a way that works to kill them,

949
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: and it's not necessarily leaning into struggle, right, but to

950
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: enjoy it is different. So if you want to kill

951
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: a big one, there there are ways to do it

952
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: where there isn't a lot of struggle. After a while,

953
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 3: you get things established and you get the farm set

954
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 3: up and whatever, like you're not you're kind of it's

955
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 3: kind of like on auto, right, like you just treading

956
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: wattle bit right. You just know if you go sit

957
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 3: on the food button, you leave it alone until November first,

958
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: think good things are going to happen, But the process

959
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 3: there is gone, so the result changes, you know, it's

960
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: the same thing. Like I promise you this. We're going

961
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 3: to see all kinds of studies out of this ozembic

962
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 3: GLP one craze where people can take a shot or

963
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 3: get an injection and lose weight. That's great, right, Like

964
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 3: that's healthier. It seems to be healthier than staying heavy. Right,

965
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 3: But you know there's the mental component of achieving that

966
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: isn't there. So that person hasn't changed their mind. They've

967
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: just changed their body and they and they might you know,

968
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 3: I mean they might get skinny and love how it feels,

969
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 3: and and that might change how they view things. They

970
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 3: might be more likely to exercise whatever. Like I'm not

971
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 3: saying that, but that purely alone. Like if you could

972
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 3: take a pill and kill them a one hundred and

973
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 3: seventy inch er every year, you'd sell a shitload of

974
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 3: those pills, and a lot of people wouldn't be very

975
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 3: happy because that's not what this is, Like, that's that's

976
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 3: not why we're there. Like we talk a big game

977
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 3: about loving to hunt and loving the process and loving

978
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 3: the animals, and then we reduce it to this one

979
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 3: thing like how can we make it as easy as

980
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 3: possible to kill as big of a deer as possible? Yep?

981
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 3: And you literally can go out and just challenge yourself

982
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: to to to have a harder process to get somewhere

983
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: with it.

984
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're I think you're one percent right.

985
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: And I think that when we take the easy route,

986
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 2: or when we kind of tread water into the easy

987
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: route or stumble into that rut, the outcome, even though

988
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: it's the outcome we thought we wanted, it ends up

989
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: being hollow. And then you're left with this like sense

990
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 2: of holl in this and you're like, Wow, why do

991
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: I do this? I don't know, It's just the thing

992
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: I do. And it's okay, I guess I like it.

993
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: But I think a lot of folks I've definitely felt

994
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 2: at times where you're like, I don't know, there was

995
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: there used to be more of this and this this

996
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: shows again, it's it's an intuitive thing. Like we've talked

997
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: about this in the past, but it's interesting that there's

998
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: actually like a physical component to it now. But I'm

999
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 2: curious about this, Tony. What does this imply for how

1000
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: you parent your kids and introduce them to hunting and

1001
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: teach them about this stuff and other things, Because again,

1002
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: this is back to like the joy versus struggle and

1003
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: what I talked about earlier, Like, I'm constantly preaching to

1004
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: my kids about becoming comfortable being uncomfortable, and I look

1005
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: at hunting as one of the best places to do

1006
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: that and to learn that. But at the same time,

1007
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: I also want them to experience the joy. I also

1008
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: want them to like not hate it, and not to

1009
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: look at hunting or the outdoors as this place of

1010
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: constant struggle and misery. So I personally have fought this

1011
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: battle in turn, Like every time I take them out,

1012
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm always wrestling with like, hey, you got to tough

1013
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: it out, just deal with this thing and do it

1014
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 2: versus the Okay, let's not make them hate this. You

1015
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 2: what's your sense about like how this how this functions

1016
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: in an eight year old or a ten year old.

1017
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously you gotta you have to be a

1018
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: little careful with it, right. But the fundamental concept of

1019
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: this is if I force my ten year olds to

1020
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 3: get up and go turkey hunting, they never want to

1021
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 3: get up, you know what I mean. Like I have

1022
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 3: two fourteen year olds. They don't want to wake up

1023
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: and do this, but you you get them to go

1024
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 3: do that thing they don't want to do, and then

1025
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: the turkeys are goblin and the deer come in and whatever,

1026
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, this is like a mini example

1027
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: of that with the with that balance between you know,

1028
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 3: challenge and kind of guaranteed success, like what I did

1029
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 3: with my daughters. They had it really easy when they

1030
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 3: were eight, right, Like they just did like I set

1031
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: up everything and I didn't I didn't know about this

1032
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 3: what we're talking about. But again it's like sort of intuitive,

1033
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: and so eventually they're gonna do an all days sit

1034
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: with me. Eventually they're going to get out of the

1035
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 3: pop up blind and have to camel up and think

1036
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: about their movements and try to kill them. So when

1037
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: we talk about like goals in the process of this stuff.

1038
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 3: Two years ago I told my daughters, I was like,

1039
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 3: we you guys, are gonna hunt without blinds this year

1040
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 3: for the first time. We're just gonna go out and

1041
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: try it. We get busted whatever, however that breaks. And

1042
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 3: both of my daughters killed deer when we built natural

1043
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: blinds in spots that we kind of walked in and

1044
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: you know, like I knew they were gonna be deer

1045
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 3: probably coming in there, Like I knew they were good spots.

1046
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: But it's like not just marching them to a blind

1047
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 3: I put up right, Like I talked about this on

1048
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 3: I think it was Meat Eater Radio Live or something,

1049
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: But I feel like when they have a buy in,

1050
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 3: it's just better. And so you start out and you

1051
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: try to make it easy because you have to, right,

1052
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: but it doesn't take very long. And you see this

1053
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 3: with kids, and I think parenting wise, I'm I think

1054
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 3: setting an example that you'll do hard stuff, like you'll

1055
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 3: do the things that most people won't. Like. You brought

1056
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 3: this up way earlier about you know, people are like

1057
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: they're just not going to do a lot of this stuff,

1058
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 3: and in my head it kind of triggered like there's

1059
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 3: sort of a social contagion component to this, right, Like

1060
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 3: if you hang around people who do hard stuff, you're

1061
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 3: just more inclined to do it. Like I'm buddies with

1062
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 3: Jas Bouserman and Tim Kent, who've both been on this podcast,

1063
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: and they both are long distance trail runners. I knew

1064
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: them long before the meat eater days. And I remember,

1065
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: you know, when I started running, Jace was training for

1066
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 3: a hundred miler and I'm struggling, like struggling to get

1067
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 3: a five k and He's like, yeah, twenty four mile

1068
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 3: training run or whatever. Just like being around somebody who's

1069
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: doing something hard is so good for you. Just like

1070
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 3: if you're around people who don't ever do anything hard

1071
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 3: and don't ever like try, you know, do anything with

1072
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 3: any discomfort or struggle, you're gonna go the other way

1073
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 3: with it, you know. And so I think I think

1074
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 3: there's like a lot going on there in our lives

1075
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: that we can sort of steer the deership or the

1076
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 3: hunting ship that is not it doesn't it's not even

1077
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 3: connected to it at all, which is sort of the

1078
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 3: whole point of this.

1079
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the kid front. One other thing I thought,

1080
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: and this maybe applies beyond just the kid front, But

1081
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: as I'm thinking about that application, I would think that

1082
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 2: there's a difference in how this would work for someone

1083
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: if they were forced to do the hard thing versus

1084
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: if they made that decision themselves. Right, So, if I'm

1085
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: out there with my eight years old and it starts

1086
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: raining and it's cold, and we still have an hour

1087
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: of daylight or something like that left, if I were

1088
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: to just say, hey, Everett, we're hunting in the rain

1089
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: in the cold, just because it'll be good for it.

1090
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 2: It's what we're gonna do. We gotta do it, and

1091
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 2: that probably toughens them up to some degree, but maybe

1092
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: not as much as if somehow we got to the

1093
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 2: point where he made that decision for himself. And how

1094
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: you get to that point probably is a process. Obviously,

1095
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 2: probably a big part of it is modeling, like being

1096
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: the example like you described. That's probably a big part

1097
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: of it. Is if you can model this for your

1098
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: kids for a certain amount of time and explain why

1099
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 2: you're doing this stuff. I guess I guess that's what

1100
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 2: I've been trying to do, like explain to the kids, like, hey,

1101
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: the reason we're doing this, the reason I'm out here

1102
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: right now because it's good to be uncomfortable, and now

1103
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's funny. I've had my young my oldest

1104
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: son like start parroting this stuff back to me. I

1105
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 2: can't remember what it was, but something over Christmas break

1106
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: we're doing something might have been, and we went up

1107
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 2: to Picture Rocks. It's like a national lake shore up

1108
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 2: in northern Michigan, and it was like zero and we

1109
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 2: were snowshoeing to go see these ice formations and stuff.

1110
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: And I remember saying something like, Ah, this is kind

1111
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: of crazy, isn't it, guys? And then Effett goes, well, yeah, Dad,

1112
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 2: but we're the Kenyans. We're comfortable being uncomfortable. He said that.

1113
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, hell yeah. Like it was one of those

1114
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 2: moments where it finally you see, like, oh they are listening.

1115
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: So I wonder if, like the Superpower hack, when it

1116
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: comes to trying to instill us in a kid, is

1117
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: not to force them to do this all the time,

1118
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: but to model it, to explain why we are doing

1119
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 2: it in our lives, and hopefully put them in a

1120
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 2: position and encourage them to get to the point where

1121
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: they themselves say okay, yeah, you know what, No, I'm

1122
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: not going to go in early today dad, because this

1123
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 2: is you know, we can do this, this is why

1124
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 2: we do this, just like your kids are willing to

1125
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 2: step out of the blind and try the ground blind,

1126
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 2: do the harder thing because they've seen you do that

1127
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 2: and they've heard about how that benefits you, and they're

1128
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 2: willing to try that next hard thing. I gotta believe

1129
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: that that is really what you want to see, but takes.

1130
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: A while to get to. Yeah, I mean it's a process,

1131
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 3: but yeah, you're setting that example, right, And I think

1132
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 3: about like, you don't You're right, you don't really want

1133
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: to force your kids to do it. I mean if

1134
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 3: there were situations where I was like, we have eight

1135
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 3: gobblers roosted one hundred yards away, like there are situations

1136
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 3: around to be like you're getting your ass up like

1137
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 3: we're just gonna do this, sure, but also you know,

1138
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 3: you always try to frame it up and be like

1139
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 3: you know, like yeah, it's gonna be tough, right, but

1140
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: it's the deer gonna come in like or whatever. Like

1141
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 3: you can just lie to them like you don't know,

1142
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 3: but they'll call you out on it afterwards, like I

1143
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 3: thought they would. You know, they're not going to regret going.

1144
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: You go eat a bunch of candy and whatever, and

1145
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 3: you see some squirrels or but it's also if you

1146
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 3: allow them to opt out, which is okay, right, Like

1147
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 3: I'll never forget my one daughter when she killed her

1148
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 3: first buck. She was nine and I had a whole

1149
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 3: bunch of bucks on camera, little guy coming into this spot,

1150
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: and her sister was up to bat. We made a

1151
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 3: drive over to Wisconsin after school on a Friday and

1152
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: we got to the cabin and she was like, Dad,

1153
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 3: I'm just tired. I don't want to go, Like I

1154
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 3: don't want to go, and I'm like, listen, honey, if

1155
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: you don't go, your sister's going to and she's going

1156
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: to shoot a buck. And she's like she really wrestled

1157
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: with it. She didn't go. We went out and her

1158
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 3: sister shot a buck like five minutes into it. I

1159
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 3: wasn't even set up, like I was getting my camera

1160
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 3: gear set up, and she goes, dah, there's a buck.

1161
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 3: And I thought she was messing with me. Looked up,

1162
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 3: here's a four key in there. She laced him. We

1163
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: were back to the cabin before it was even close

1164
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 3: to dark. And those kind of things like they leave

1165
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 3: a mark too. It's a different thing than this what

1166
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 3: we're talking about, but it just think about it like

1167
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: when you've got that you know, cell camera in front

1168
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 3: of that stand and it's October twenty seventh and you're like, oh,

1169
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 3: I should get up and go, but it's going to

1170
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 3: be even better in three days. And then you don't go,

1171
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 3: and that dude walked your hitlister. You go, Okay, I

1172
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: should have just done that thing that I didn't want

1173
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 3: to do. Like there is that part of it too,

1174
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: but the kid thing's tough. Man, Like, I really think

1175
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 3: this is gonna be a weird way to put this.

1176
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 3: I think that setting an example of doing what most

1177
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 3: people won't do. Positive stuff. I'm not talking about like

1178
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 3: shooting Heroin into your eyeballs or whatever, but like, yeah,

1179
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 3: positive stuff is so important. They see that. Like when

1180
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 3: I was growing up, my dad is just like notoriously

1181
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: has a bad attitude. He just does. And it's like

1182
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 3: it's so easy for me to default to that. But

1183
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 3: like he would look at a hunting or fishing situation

1184
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: and always sort of like focus on what the negative

1185
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: outcome was probably going to be, you know what I mean,

1186
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: And like a lot of people do that, and I

1187
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: internalized that. I saw that for a long time. Man,

1188
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: I looked at it like I will never be good

1189
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 3: at this stuff. I will never figure this out. And

1190
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 3: it's just like it's just not for me. But you

1191
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 3: keep going, and I see how damaging that is, you

1192
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Like, you see how damaging that is.

1193
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: And when we talk about success deer hunting, and everybody

1194
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: wants that decoy or they want that strategy, or they

1195
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 3: want whatever, most of what our audience needs to hear

1196
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 3: and understand is you have to do something that the

1197
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 3: other people won't. You know, like this is like a

1198
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 3: core tenet of being successful on pressure ground. Is like

1199
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 3: if you are willing to do things other people won't do,

1200
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 3: then you win. Like you will, you will have more opportunities,

1201
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: you will be moving in a direction. It's just it.

1202
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 3: And that follows you everywhere in the outdoors, like that

1203
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 3: follows you fishing, that follows you in pheasant hunting when

1204
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,919
Speaker 3: you go out west for the first time. If you're

1205
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 3: the kind of person who will go in the conditions

1206
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 3: other people won't, you're just better off. You're going to

1207
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: be better at it. And so I think that setting

1208
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 3: that example, you know, for your kids and just doing

1209
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 3: it for yourself is like hugely important, Like it is

1210
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 3: the key to killing deer on public.

1211
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: Land and honestly probably anywhere.

1212
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it's right, I mean it's better. It's always

1213
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 3: better than not doing Yeah, but it's the difference maker

1214
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 3: is real when you're competing against When you're competing against

1215
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 3: the deer, it's different. But when you're competing against the

1216
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 3: people for the deer, or for the pheasants or for

1217
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 3: the oak, the person who does something the other people

1218
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 3: won't is the person who kills. It's the Andy May success, right,

1219
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 3: it's the Eddie Claypool success where I don't care if

1220
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: it's antelope, I don't care, if it's high country meal deer,

1221
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: I don't care if it's Illinois white tails. They're just

1222
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 3: so much more likely to succeed. And then you look

1223
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 3: at them outside of hunting, and they're still doing things

1224
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 3: that most people won't do, and it's it's just so important.

1225
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: Well, that's the cool thing is that all of what

1226
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: you just described is great. But then you can also

1227
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,479
Speaker 2: tell your wife or your spouse or your boss that, hey,

1228
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: this also translates to the rest of my life. So

1229
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: give me that vacation time, because this is going to

1230
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 2: make me a better husband, wife, employee father, whatever it is. Right,

1231
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: That's that's the argument I think we can make now, right, Tony.

1232
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 3: I think that we're right there, buddy, All right, well,

1233
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: excuse me.

1234
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing this idea of the table. It's

1235
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 2: one that resonates. Remind us, give us a give us

1236
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 2: a reminder. Where are the Foundation's podcasts? How often do

1237
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 2: they come out? What are some other things you've been

1238
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: talking about? Because folks should definitely go listen to this

1239
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 2: episode that you do a deeper dive. But what else

1240
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 2: should they be looking for?

1241
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 3: Well on this feed right here every Tuesday. I've really

1242
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 3: you know, when we this is I think it's been

1243
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 3: almost five years now. That's when we when we were

1244
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: just first kind of kicking around the idea working together,

1245
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 3: and you came to me with this opportunity and we

1246
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 3: came up with foundations. I was like two years and

1247
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 3: I'm out, we got to do something different. But what

1248
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 3: I've realized is I was looking at it from the

1249
01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 3: perspective of tactics and techniques and gear and not looking

1250
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 3: at what actually makes us good hunters. Like all of

1251
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 3: that stuff is complimentary, right like you if you have

1252
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 3: that DSD THO you're gonna kill more deer somehow if

1253
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 3: you figure out how to use it, you just will.

1254
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 3: But having the mindset to be better at difficult stuff

1255
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 3: like that's just there's like a lane that people aren't

1256
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 3: talking about. You kind of touch on it with deer hunting.

1257
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: But it's like the more as I get older and

1258
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,919
Speaker 3: I look at where you like, where we kill deer

1259
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 3: and the kind of hunts we have and how this

1260
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 3: works out and the scouting and everything, it's like, man,

1261
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 3: it all kind of points in the same direction, and

1262
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 3: it's this stuff and I just think it's so fascinating

1263
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 3: compared to just talking about how awesome rubs are, you know,

1264
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: which are great, But this is like universal, right, somebody

1265
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 3: in Georgia can listen to this or understand this concept

1266
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 3: and get better. But I might not ever, you know,

1267
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 3: talk about scrape hunting in a way that resonates with him.

1268
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 2: You know, give me two other episodesdes of Foundations that

1269
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: you can think of right now that you're particularly excited

1270
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: about or proud of that you would say, hey, if

1271
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 2: you if you haven't been listening to Foundations in a while,

1272
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 2: here's two more. You gotta check out. What are those

1273
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 2: two recommendations.

1274
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 3: So I just dropped a couple on et scouting and

1275
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 3: winter scouting, and I'm trying to I've been I've been

1276
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 3: winter scouting a lot, and to me, e scouting and

1277
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 3: winter scouting are sort of the same thing, right Like

1278
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 3: if I you know, last weekend, I was on a

1279
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 3: farm that I know really well. So I'm not pulling

1280
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 3: up on X to look at that the same way

1281
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 3: I was a couple of weeks ago when I went

1282
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 3: out to western Minnesota, some land I've never set foot on,

1283
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 3: and had dropped a bunch of pins and I just

1284
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 3: wanted to walk public and hunt some rabbits and just

1285
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 3: see if I could find a place to maybe kill

1286
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 3: a deer at some point. Going through that stuff is

1287
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 3: what feeds those podcasts, and so it's not it's I'm

1288
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 3: trying not to do like, oh, well, you find this

1289
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 3: type of uh you know, the top of lines or whatever.

1290
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 3: You're like, it gets tight here and so there's going

1291
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 3: to be a pinch point there. Like that stuff's great.

1292
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 3: People are covering that like crazy, you know, like we

1293
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 3: know how to find a water hole on on X,

1294
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: But I'm talking about like putting it into use and

1295
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 3: then like ground truthing what you're finding. But because that

1296
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 3: it flows both ways, right, we think like you're gonna

1297
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 3: pull up on X and be like, I'm gonna drop

1298
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 3: a pin here, and I'm gonna walk in there and

1299
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 3: the rubs are gonna be there and I hunt there.

1300
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 3: But a lot of times you drop that pin, you

1301
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 3: walk in there and you're like, well, there's a ladder

1302
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 3: stand there, and there's a stand there, and you're like

1303
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, that doesn't matter now. But you walk

1304
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 3: through that cattail slew and you end up in the

1305
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 3: next little wood lot and you're like, here it is.

1306
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm trying to get, is like we

1307
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 3: kind of sell a lot of answers to this stuff,

1308
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 3: but really the accountability is on the individual to go

1309
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 3: out and put this into practice in their world. And

1310
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 3: so I've been talking about that a lot lately, and

1311
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 3: I'm gonna write one here coming up pretty soon. I

1312
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 3: haven't quite figured it out yet, but I ran into

1313
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: a little spot on this farm that we I was

1314
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 3: with the girl last weekend and there's a place we

1315
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 3: call the betting area. It's just this ridge top. You know,

1316
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 3: there's always dear beded and there's very advantageous for west winds.

1317
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 3: Just typical whatever stuff, right. But there's a little spot

1318
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 3: that I've never really set up on, and I actually

1319
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 3: was looking at it on on X just because I

1320
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 3: was bored, and I was like, man, the way that

1321
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 3: that hillside feeds down in that little spot, Like I've

1322
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 3: been through there a million times, but I've never It's

1323
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 3: just one of those walkthrough locations on your farm. And

1324
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 3: I told the girls, I was like, we're going to

1325
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 3: go shd hunt that ridge because bucks bet on it

1326
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: a lot. And then we're going to just check out

1327
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 3: this little spot. And I'm like, I bet there's going

1328
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 3: to be a bunch of rubs pointing down toward the

1329
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 3: field where they just take this this subtle kind of

1330
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: ridge down. And we walked in there and the first

1331
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 3: rub we found was like, you know, a three hander, right,

1332
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 3: Like you can't even get your hands around it. And

1333
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 3: I keep thinking about this stuff and going what we

1334
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 3: think we know about our farm and what deer do

1335
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 3: is like eight percent of what's actually going on out

1336
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 3: there just the same, right, And I think about if

1337
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 3: you keep engaging with that idea and going to learn

1338
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 3: something you don't know like you think you know, but

1339
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 3: you actually don't. You find all kinds of stuff and

1340
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 3: you don't just default to what you expect to work.

1341
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 3: And that's that's winter scouting, man. Like I I've said

1342
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 3: this a million times and I know you know this.

1343
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 3: I feel like it's so much more valuable to me

1344
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 3: than almost anything else I do for deer. But I

1345
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: have to remind myself and I have to force myself

1346
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: to keep going because of that, just the seasonal timing

1347
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 3: and how disconnected it feels in the moment from when

1348
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 3: you're actually hunting. But it's so important.

1349
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 2: Gotta sometimes do the hard thing even when you don't

1350
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 2: want to do it right right. And on that note, Tony,

1351
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: I will I'll thank you for taking the time to

1352
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: do this and bringing a good idea at the table

1353
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 2: and just more kind of zooming out. Thanks for doing foundations,

1354
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: like for all these years of that work. I don't

1355
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: think people realize how much work it is to write that.

1356
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: It's not like you're just riffing off the top of

1357
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 2: your head. You're deeply thinking about something, writing up a

1358
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: really good essay essentially, and then you know, sharing that

1359
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 2: with the world. That is intensive. That is time intensive,

1360
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: so thank you for doing that and thanks.

1361
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: Thanks to chet Yeah buddy, thanks for having me, and with.

1362
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 2: That we will wrap things up for today's show. Thank

1363
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 2: you for joining us. I appreciate you being a part

1364
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 2: of this community. Until next time, stay wired to Hunt.