WEBVTT - #108 Jason Flom with Clemente Aguirre 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:05.000 Clemente Shorty Aguire grew up in Honduras, but in two 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.560 thousand and one, when rival street gangs demanded that he 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.400 pick aside or die, he found himself with no choice 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.160 but to run. He escaped to the United States, crossing 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.360 our southern border illegally, and ultimately he found work as 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.440 a cook, living in Seminole County, Florida, in a trailer park, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.000 where he formed friendly ties with various neighbors. But on 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.040 June seventeenth of two thousand and four, Shorty was hanging 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:27.800 out into the wee hours of the morning when he 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.520 went to his friend Cheryl Williams's trailer to grab a beer, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.800 and there he found himself inside of a gruesome crime scene. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.400 The trailer had been ransacked and was covered in blood. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.960 Cheryl and her mother Carol had been stabbed repeatedly and 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.720 were dead. He checked the bodies for signs of life, 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:48.240 thereby inadvertently tampering with the crime scene. Knowing that nothing 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.440 would bring them back, and fearing deportation or worse, he 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.520 chose to stay quiet initially, but later that day Clemente 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.440 came forward about his discovery his immigration status. An unwitting 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.160 crime scene tampering made him a prime suspect, and with 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.000 the deadly combination of an ineffective public defender and the 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.800 prosecution's tunnel vision, Clemente was convicted and sent to death row. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.520 In this episode, recorded at the Innocent Network conference in Atlanta, 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.160 we speak with Clemente, Shortia Giri, and one of his 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.880 lead post conviction attorneys, Maria Deliberado, who, along with a 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.800 list of mostly pro bono private council would properly reinvestigate 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:25.880 the crime and test the one hundred and ninety seven 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.520 pieces of crime scene evidence that had never been tested 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.399 for DNA, ultimately excluding Clemente. They even found new evidence 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.720 that would lead to the identity of the woman who 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.039 was almost certainly the true perpetrator and who confessed to 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.040 the crime on numerous occasions. Cheryl's own daughter, Samantha Williams. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.000 Shorty spent over fourteen long years in prison, most of 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.280 it on death row, for a crime he simply did 0:01:50.320 --> 0:02:03.840 not commit. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.000 Today's show is going to take you on a journey 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:13.120 that you will probably never forget, and not because of 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.280 anything I'm going to say, but because of the story 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.720 you're going to hear. And today we have as our 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:27.240 very special guest, Clemente aka Shorty Agia from Honduras, right, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.760 who was wrongfully convicted in Florida the double murder and 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:37.240 who served fourteen years and four months on death row. Shorty, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:38.639 welcome to Wraful Conviction. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:39.960 Thank you for having me. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.200 As I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.760 happy you're here. So you know how that goes, and 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.720 with him is one of his incredible we'll just call 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.639 it what it is, dream team of lawyers, Maria Deliberado, 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.399 which is a great name for lawyer, by the way, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.520 not for nothing. It's perfect. And so Maria, welcome to 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:00.400 RAF Conviction. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:01.640 Thank you, happy to be here. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.799 So Shorty, you were sort of a star in your 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.760 native country, right, I guess. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.360 So you can say that I was very likable, friendly, 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:18.480 plays soccer. When I'm singing competition representing in the school. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.080 I was told it was like the American Idol of Honduras. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:22.080 Is that right? Yeah? 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.160 It were called championships and it was between the school 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.840 so it was knowledge, it was dancing and it was singing. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.480 So I performed and I want the first place. 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.320 Wow, And how old were you? 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:35.600 I was ten years old. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.200 Ten years old, so amazing start to a crazy journey. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.480 And is it true that as a result of you 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.440 winning this competition, the gangs kind of left you alone 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:46.680 for a while, right, for. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.800 A little bit, since Sia was going to school those times. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.080 It really wasn't Di Stronos Again, in that period of 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.320 time when growing up and going to high school, I 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.840 was well known because I played soccer there. But my 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.440 problem was I live in a neighborhood with a rival gang, 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.960 and I play and go to school with the other 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.320 gang had power off. So it was very controversial because 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.960 one would say I belonged to one and the other 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:16.800 one would say I belong to the other one, which 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:17.799 it wasn't the case. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.560 And in fact, you were able to belong to neither 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.000 of them because of the status that you enjoyed being 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.120 sort of this celebrity in your area. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.880 Right basically, and because my mother too, she didn't play. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.640 And I have this select group of friends. It was 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.719 seven of us, and it didn't attract to us anything 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:35.920 about no game at all. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.000 But then, as I understand it, when you got a 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.680 little older, the gangs, you were going to join the 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.440 gang or get killed basically, right. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.320 Yeah, they told me they weren't playing. I was harassed 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.640 and put guns in my face. I live in a 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.000 neighborhood full of amster teens and I got to go 0:04:56.040 --> 0:05:01.359 to school where the eighteens lived. So when I get 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.720 out of the territory from the thirteenth, the eighties grabbed 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.600 me and made me undress in public to see if 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.640 I didn't have tattoos belonging to the other game. 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.520 Ultimately, you decided you had to leave because your life 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.440 was in danger, right, But what was it that made 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.080 you Because that's a big step to leave your country, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.720 and it's a very important story to tell right now, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.520 especially right with what's going on in this country, because 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.160 you had a crazy journey ahead of you. But what 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:27.960 was it that happened? 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:33.720 Well, it was in two thousand and one January of 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.080 February around there. I was with my Beyonce to be 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.039 at a moment and the taxi pull up in front 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:47.240 of my house. I'm sitting down outside and they got 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:51.640 this raincoat, this long rail black coat, and put an 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.719 AK forty seven and put it in my face. The 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:59.400 drivers stepped down and say, we ain't playing no more. 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.440 TikTok TikTok. In that particular moment in time, my mom 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.119 came out at the door and say, what you're doing. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.600 I said, Mom, go inside. What good dude, She is 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.239 out here and I got to gone on my page 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.600 and my girlfriend is holding me for their life and 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:21.279 I'm like, come down. So they left, and then you say, 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.760 TikTok TikTok mean the clock is running. You need to 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:29.760 tie up and join all else. In December, a few 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.040 months back, they killed one of my best friends because 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.960 he didn't want to join AH. They killed him on 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:44.240 December twenty, two thousand, so it was very, very scary. 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.320 My mother said, you go to your grandma. They sent 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.520 me to Nicaraga and then Nicaragua is no place to live. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.600 It's like it's more poverty. They wasn't Honduras. So in 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.279 two thousand and two, my sisters came from the United 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.280 States already with her residence and we went from there. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.960 I need to come to the United States. I cannot 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.240 live in Nicaraga for poverty. I cannot live in my 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.320 native country because if I don't join again, they will 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.680 kill me. So the only way I got out of 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.520 here is go to the United States. 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.520 Already, everything you've been through is enough for someone to 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.120 go through. But this isn't even the beginning. How did 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.960 you get from Nicaragua all the way to eventually swimming 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.280 across the Rio Grande. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.600 I came to Mexico and I buy some papers and 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.880 I learned a national antern of Mexico and history. I 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.520 lived there for a couple of months, and I flew 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.200 to Mexico City and there to New Laredo, and from 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.240 there I went to a bar where when I got in, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.920 there as this coyot. Back then it was coyote. You say, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.160 it was no cartels and stuff like that, passing people 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.559 and these coyote is to say, okay, you have sixteen 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:05.320 hundred dollars on you, No, but I can call. So 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.360 we arrange that here is going to pass me through 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.600 all the way to Laddo, Texas. So he wanted me 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.560 to swim with this they did. They go inside the 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:19.320 tire like inner two right. So because he asking me, 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.000 can you swim? And this moment in time, I feel 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.280 like I'm the micro fellow the river. I didn't know 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.240 how big real grand there really was. You see, I'm 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.080 picturing a river that is just like my Grandma's. 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:33.680 Like a stream. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.120 Yeah, I mean it's something that you can pass in 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.760 two minutes. I never thought I was gonna take me 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.439 seventeen minutes almost to pass the river across that I 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.959 almost drowned and there, you know. So he told us 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.280 the take you close off, so we did, but we 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.880 keep the underwear on. When he turned back and like, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:56.280 what you're doing. This isn't no gay shit, teed you 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.360 underwere off because when you run you need to be dry. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.840 If you wed, it's gonna it's gonna hurt you and 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.840 it's gonna sload you down. Believe me, I'm doing this 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.520 for a long time. So we did. Put it in 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.839 a plastic bat, put in my mouth, start swimming. We 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.480 make it to the other side. Somehow, God only he 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.760 could help me to pass through that river because it 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:22.480 was so strong and we'd write off. He say, every 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.720 paper that you have, every picture that you have, throw 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.720 it away, every money that you have, throw it away. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.199 You cannot bring anything with you to the United States 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.760 unless it's American dollars. I didn't have any American dollars, 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.960 so you know, it was fifty pests of Mexico. So 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.360 I throw it away, and he said, when I tell 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.160 you so, follow me and run. When we make it 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.000 to the other side, it was like ninety five people 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.880 in there, you know, females, men, you own, people from Ecuador, Columbia, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.000 Costa Rica, you name it. So we saw immigration car 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.719 pass by and then another one and you may say, 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:05.000 I am waiting here. We're taken off. So I'm taking 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.280 after him because he got my money. So I'm thinking 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.400 I cannot let him go away with my money. You know, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.240 how am I going to make it to the other side. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.240 And this moment in time, I'm in the United States, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.600 but I haven't made it to civilization yet. We take 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.599 off running. I wasn't thirty second and we hear helicopters, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:27.079 police cars, dogs and sirens saying stop stop, but we're 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.760 going to shoot. We hear some shots at this moment 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.880 in time, everybody has take off running two and I'm 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.000 running right next to this guy. So I'm running and 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.240 I'm asking him where to where to he didn't tell me, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.560 and where to because I think I can run him. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.959 I really believe I can run him. I'm so desperate 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.840 to pass back. So it's some shots. I don't think 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.840 they were shouting at us. I think they were shouting 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.800 to the airth so people get scared or whatever. But 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.200 that's all I hear in my neighborhood. So they really 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.360 didn't call me anymore. It was I'm so used to 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.600 or I was so used to. We make it to defence, 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.240 and by the time we're going to jump the fence. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.240 I used to feel this hand in my hand and say, senor, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.640 please my son. It was this woman running next to 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.040 me with a child in her hand, so I grabbed 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:16.959 the kid. I give it to the next guy. I 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.680 push her up and then I jumped. We went to 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.680 a house call. My sister went to Houston. From Houston, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.839 came to my sister house March eighteen, six fifteen in 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.439 the morning, three months, sixteen day after I was out 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:32.160 of my house. 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:34.880 Three months and sixteen days. Starting in Nicarago. 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.600 Right, started from Honduras January second, all the way to 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:40.960 March eighteen, two thousand and three. 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.840 And you ended up in Florida in a little town. 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.040 Right, yes, and Altamond Spring. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.960 So you end up in Florida. You got a job? Right? 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:54.240 Yes? My bos saw me cording law and shaving some 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.360 kind of palms, and he led the way I work. 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.079 So he offered me a job as a discwatcher for 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.520 a couple of months. And one day the cooks were 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.080 really busy, so my mom teached me how to cooks. 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.400 And I was six seven years old and everybody was busy, 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:16.440 and they saw me cooking for me. So my boss 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.920 saw and say, oh, okay, so you can cut, you 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.680 can prep. I think you're going to be good in 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:30.120 the prep line. So they may may do salads, bread 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.599 and prep everything for the line cooks. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:36.800 So now you're moving up in the world a little 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.480 bit at a time, right, going from the cutting trees 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.480 or whatever, to the to the kitchen and now doing 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.760 the prep work and starting to use your skills that 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.199 you had developed as a cook. So things are looking 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.800 up right, right? And where were you living? 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.319 I moved from my sister and Ultimate Sprint into Longwood 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:56.360 and the trailer park. 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.079 And for thirty four, the trailer park is a very 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.720 important role in this story. This is where the shit 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.600 really hits the fan. Maria, do you want to sort 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.760 of set the table here, because you've worked on this 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.640 case for ten years, you know every single detail of 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:13.800 what happened. 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.880 Absolutely, I mean, I don't even really know where to 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:18.880 start at. I mean, I used to be a prosecutor 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.080 actually before I did criminal defense thirteen years ago. And 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.120 so from that perspective, getting this case, the fact that 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.240 they saw him as the suspect shut their eyes to 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.720 any possible other alternative is to me the biggest travesty here. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:36.720 But I'll sort of set the stage, I guess, in 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.120 the sense of he was living next door to the victims. 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.120 It was a trailer part on Vagabond Way, and that 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.280 was the name of the street, and he had socialized 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.720 with them on more than one occasion. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.320 And this was a woman, her mother and her daughter 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:51.840 living together in this trailer. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:56.520 That's correct, yes, And Clemente lived with two other men 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.080 about his age. They were both cousins and so they 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:01.959 were about the same age as the daughter. And her 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.760 brother also lived in the trailer for periods of time, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.880 so sort of all people of his age Clemente at 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.640 the time. Obviously you can hear him today speaking English. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.360 He didn't speak any English back then. He taught himself 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.320 English in prison, which is a great story that he 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.520 does need to tell at some point. How he taught 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.240 himself English. It's one of my favorite stories that he tells. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.640 But he didn't speak any English then, but you know, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.000 he was able to communicate enough with them. They shared parties, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:32.760 they shared drinks, sort of a friendly neighborhood scene. The 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.560 day that he was arrested, the mother and grandmother were killed, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:41.080 and the morning that their bodies were discovered, Mnde had 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.560 gone there in the morning as he often did. He 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.440 had been out with friends the night before. They always 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.680 were known to have lots and lots of beer. If 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.520 you look at the crime scene video, I mean there 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.480 was just thousands and thousands of cans. And in Florida, 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.800 alcohol is sold in all the grocery stores, but not 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.840 until certain hours. So the grocery store wasn't open yet. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.880 And Clemente was, you know, in his early twenties. We 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.760 can all remember what it's like to be able to 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.400 party all night in your early twenties. And he had 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.160 finished a hard day's work and was letting list with 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.240 some friends and wanted to keep the party going. So 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.640 he had just gone over there for a beer, as 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.000 he had done many times. They had an open door policy. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.760 Sorry, people, let's start over to you climent day because 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.360 this is such a nightmare. I mean, I've told your 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.120 story so many times, but you actually lived it. So 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.080 can you take us back to that day. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.560 I've been drinking all day. I'm going to go home, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.840 and I went home, but I want another beer, so 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.920 I went inside and I didn't find this. So it's 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.840 why I wait until daytime to go to the next 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:38.880 door and ask for a beer, like I had done 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.200 dozens the time before. 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:41.840 What time was it when you went over. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.560 To It was like six something in the morning. 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.800 Six in the morning, right, And so you went over 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.520 there as you've done so many times, to scoop up 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.400 a few more beers whatever, Right, what did you encounter 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:52.280 when you got there? 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.960 I turned knocked the door, but when I touched it, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.440 a push open, but it didn't open all the way. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.400 Strange because I've been in the house. I mean, if 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.560 I want to give you a number over seven hundred times, right, 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.880 so I know that door opened all the way and 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:16.120 this time didn't. So I push it and it it 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.360 didn't go further than what it was. So I look, 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.080 it was like a little window and I saw Cherry 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:30.400 Williams there body. This was the mom that was the mother, Yes, 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.480 Samantha's mother, Yes, And Carol daughter. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.800 So you saw the body. So that's why they couldn't 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.160 open the door because the body. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.560 Was blocking it was blocking it, yes, sir, right. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.840 And so now you see the body, but is there 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.440 blood everywhere? Or what's the first thing that you. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:52.080 Her body is there. I just jump immediately inside without thinking, right, 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.640 and she was too close to by the door, so 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.040 I had to close the door and touch her dress 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.880 looking for a pose. So I said, I'm too drunk 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.760 that I don't feel it. So I picked her up 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:05.640 and put it on the top of my legs into 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.639 her neck because in the position she was, I couldn't 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.320 touch her neck. And a moment and asked her to 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.520 wake up, and she didn't. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.080 At this point, did you see there was blood and 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:17.399 there was. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:22.600 Yes, everywhere. Now it's like a horror movie scene. So 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:29.800 I'm asking somebody here, and I find the grandmother of 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.520 her wheelchair almost under the table, so I want to 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.439 touch her too. She was dead and I heard this 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.919 noise and I'm asking somebody here, And with that I 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.159 walked in the house and my footprints were there, and 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.199 it was it was crazy. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.800 You found the murder weapon, right, I did? 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.840 I did? I saw it when I saw the first victim. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.399 It was on the top of a beer box, but 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.440 I didn't touch it. Then I touched until I heard 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.800 the noise later that I was a dog there. But 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.680 I know I'm crazy. I heard a noise. So anyway, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.080 I went and grabbed a knife like like a domas 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:17.119 and uh, asking somebody here. And I walked and I 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:21.920 went to Samantha's bedroom and everything was everywhere in the house. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:28.040 Chair would flowed down, clothes was everywhere. Everything was like 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.280 a like a hura camp passed by there and then 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.280 I walked to the next room, but I think went 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:39.600 in there because I found Cherry already. So I said, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.359 oh my god, what am I going to do? So 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:48.320 I took off running. They got running again. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.440 This is a really bad scenario on every level. I mean, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.960 you've got now the murder victim's blood on you, right, 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.720 because you've been trying to help them, trying to check 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.680 and see if they're alive. Obviously that was hopeless because 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.640 they were dead. You've got your fingerprints on the knife 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.479 right because you picked up thet I mean, it couldn't 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.840 be any worse. You can't make it harder for your lawyers, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.480 right in this case. I mean, this is circumstantial levidence. 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.120 It doesn't get much worse than that. And I'm sure 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.359 when it eventually came to your arrest, they must have 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.520 looked at it like, okay, well so you don't really 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.400 have to work too hard on this one. We got 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.280 this guy dead to rights? Well what did you do? 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.520 So now you you ran? What did you run too? 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:44.679 I ran to mahause I'm debating. Am I going to 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.000 call the policeman? And the person I'm debating is, I 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:54.720 know the police officer arrest you, they call immigration on you. 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:03.560 It's a fact, so they I mean, and now I'm 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.800 going to be deported for it. So I know I 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.800 didn't do nothing wrong, even though everything sounds wrong so far, 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:16.000 I didn't kill nobody anyway. So I took a shower 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.159 and I'm like, I can't go police. I decided against 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.399 it because I don't want to be deported. It was 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.320 my fear. That was my fear, and like you didn't 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.560 have fear because I'm running from my life. You know, 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.679 I'm running for my life. I don't want to be 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.840 killed in my country because I don't want to be 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:37.440 a criminal. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.720 Right, what an irony? Right? You were running away from 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.639 the criminals to come here to start a better life. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.320 And now now you're going to be accused of a 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.480 crime that you didn't commit in the first place. And 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.560 the options are all bad. Right, You're either going to 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.480 go and get deported or you're going to get convicted. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:57.600 I mean, you must have known as well that things 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.280 were looking pretty bad. If you call the police the 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.520 first person that suspect. We know that in general in 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.439 many cases anyway, the person who finds the body is 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:06.680 the person they rely. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.639 But honestly speaking, I wasn't afraid they are going to 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.600 be accused of the murder. I really wasn't, because I 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.639 know I didn't do it. I was more afraid that 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.360 if I completely going to put so what happened for sure. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:23.880 So, I mean, he can tell it as well. 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.960 But the police eventually came because Samantha's boyfriend, which we'll 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.960 later get to in more detail, actually was told by 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.360 Samantha to come to the house that morning to get 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.960 her laundry out of the dryer was the purported reason, 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.560 or out of the washer, and to check on her 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.520 mom and grandmother because she had a bad feeling. So 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.720 he comes to the scene about nine am, he finds 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.679 a bod easy of course, calls nine one one and 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:48.560 then the police come. 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.600 So by a couple of hours go by. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.080 The police are there and you know, normally they're knocking 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.240 their canvassing the neighborhood. So they knock on the door 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.480 of Clementeg's trailer, and first knock on the door, they didn't. 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:01.080