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Speaker 1: This is America's Voice Live, and Welcome to America's Voice Live.

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Speaker 2: I'm Steve Gurri. The pulse of the people.

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Speaker 3: We need somebody that's going to hear it.

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Speaker 4: People's voice, the truth.

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Speaker 2: The mainstream won't touch. This guy is by definition of

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Speaker 2: globals and the stories that matter. Rabs own, Ben Burklob.

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Speaker 5: Credit, Bo Miss Hill Cartel.

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Speaker 6: I see him, I see him, I see.

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Speaker 1: Him live breaking news right nowt here in Real America's

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Speaker 1: Voice filter. These people are domestic terrorists and unapologete. We're

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Speaker 1: here to take a stand for God and country.

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Speaker 2: Let's feel goodness. America's Voice Live starts now. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: America's Voice Live.

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Speaker 1: I'm Steve gre It is Tuesday, the third of February,

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Speaker 1: in the Year of Our Lord, twenty twenty six. That's good.

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Speaker 1: Today's top stories is always thank you for joining me

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Speaker 1: here in Real America's Voice and you appreciate it. Charlie Kirk,

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Speaker 1: suspected assassin Tyler Robinson expected to make an appearance in

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Speaker 1: court any moment now. Will take you live there when

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Speaker 1: the coverage begins, that's in provo utah Anla Robinson will

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Speaker 1: watch what happens. Also Real America's Voice correspondent Oscar Ramirez

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Speaker 1: is on the ground inside one of l. Salvator's most

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Speaker 1: notorious high security prisons, documenting the government's crackdown on cartels

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Speaker 1: and gain linked terror. More than that is coming up

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Speaker 1: today as well, plus later a House of Representatives pastor

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Speaker 1: government funding build and the four day long partial shutdown.

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Speaker 1: I'll bring on Senator Ron Johnson discuss the details of

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Speaker 1: the bill today as well. All of that coming your way,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to keep an eye on the Tonner

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Speaker 1: Robinson hearing scheduled for Provo Utah. Like I said, as

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Speaker 1: soon as it pops up, we're going to go there.

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Speaker 1: But let's start here today. Democrats still using Nazi name

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Speaker 1: calling rhetoric to demoniz our federal government, the latest being

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania District Attorney Larry Kraster, who made this absurd threat

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Speaker 1: against our federal agents recently in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 7: Listen, this is a small bunch of one be Nazis,

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Speaker 7: that's what they are. In a country of three hundred

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Speaker 7: and fifty million, we outnumber them.

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Speaker 3: If we have to hunt you down the.

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Speaker 7: Way they hunted down Nazis for decades, we will find

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Speaker 7: your identities. We will find you, we will achieve justice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Krasner doesn't give a crap about justice in Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: or anywhere else. He's earned the name Let him go,

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Speaker 1: Larry because he's so leaning on an actual criminals crime.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he is among the radical das backed by

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Speaker 1: George Soros to obtain such an office in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So what would you expect.

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Speaker 1: George Soros pumped over one and a half million dollars

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Speaker 1: into Krasner's run for office, all to elect a guy

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Speaker 1: who only prosecutes about thirty percent of violent crime anyway,

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Speaker 1: thirty percent, you heard me, right, So while Larry Krasler

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Speaker 1: lets off the actual criminals, he just issued a death

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Speaker 1: wish to all ICE agents and operations in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 2: And he knows it.

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Speaker 1: Krasner and the rest of the those just like him

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Speaker 1: know exactly what they're doing. They're riling up the radicals

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Speaker 1: to do the dirty work for them, fighting Trump and

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Speaker 1: his objectives, and they don't care who gets hurt in

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Speaker 1: the process.

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Speaker 2: They don't.

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Speaker 1: This is an unprecedented level of hate being thrown toward

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Speaker 1: our ICE agents, especially i'lected official, and I got a

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Speaker 1: tip that I have to tip my hat. That is

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Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania Governor Joshapiro, he wasn't buying it. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: agree with me on much of anything, but at least

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Speaker 1: he had the guts in the integrity called Krasner out

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Speaker 1: for those shameful comments.

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Speaker 8: Here, he is your take on that kind of rhetoric

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Speaker 8: is unacceptable, It is abhorrent, and it is wrong, period,

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Speaker 8: hard stop, end of sentence. I think what we need,

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Speaker 8: and I've called for this in Minnesota and I practice

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Speaker 8: this in Pennsylvania, is we need to bring down the rhetoric,

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Speaker 8: bring down the temperature, and create calm in the community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to see Governor Shapiro do more to bring

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Speaker 1: down that kind of rhetoric in his own state. But

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Speaker 1: that's just the start. It should be a no brainer

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Speaker 1: for every sensible Democrat to do the same thing. But

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Speaker 1: we're not seeing that, are we. It's no longer a

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. The elected officials are part of the signal

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Speaker 1: chats that have been used to orchestrate the violence and

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Speaker 1: the chaos against ICE. In fact, the Minneapolis teachers Union

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Speaker 1: chief has probably declared that fact for all to hear. Yeah. Here,

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 4: The notion that.

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Speaker 9: People that are actively engaged in ice watch, in being

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Speaker 9: vigilant in protecting our neighbors, in signal chat groups, running

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Speaker 9: plates in their cars, doing patrols, that somehow we're ashamed

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Speaker 9: of that activity, that somehow you could call our bosses

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Speaker 9: or show our faces and then we would be shunned

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Speaker 9: by our community. Our bosses are in the signal chats

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Speaker 9: with us. Are elected officials are in the chats with us?

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Speaker 1: Wow, they're all in the chat with them, and she's

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Speaker 1: loud and proud about it. There should be consequences for

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Speaker 1: that kind of behavior by public officials, don't you think

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Speaker 1: Title eighteen of the United States Code, Section three seventy

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Speaker 1: two makes it a federal crime for two or more

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Speaker 1: people to conspire it to prevent, by force, intimidation, or

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Speaker 1: threat any US officer from performing his or her duties,

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Speaker 1: which is exactly what I would argue is happening in

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Speaker 1: those signal chats. By the way, they're harassing federal agents.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, and Title eight section thirteen twenty four makes

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Speaker 1: it illegal to harbor, shield, or conceal any illegal alien,

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Speaker 1: which is the express purpose of all of these people

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Speaker 1: who say they're out protecting their neighbors. The only neighbor

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Speaker 1: that ICE is going after is the illegal alien criminal.

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Speaker 1: Why would you want that person as your neighbor in

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Speaker 1: the first place. I wouldn't. Why would they You know,

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Speaker 1: who doesn't have illegal criminal aliens as their neighbors. Hollywood

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Speaker 1: elites who showed up for the Grammys over the weekend

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Speaker 1: with their ICE out pins, pretending to show their support

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Speaker 1: for a cause that they don't have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with and aren't doing anything meaningful about. These people are

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Speaker 1: protected from the ugly consequences of illegal immigration, but they're

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Speaker 1: all about supporting the protesters who want to risk their

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Speaker 1: lives assaulting federal agents in the name of preserving illegal

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Speaker 1: immigration into this country. For example, here's the acceptance speech.

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Speaker 1: I know you've seen it that music artist Billy Eilish made.

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Speaker 2: Here's part of it. Anyhow, listen, no one.

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Speaker 10: Is illegal on stolen land. And yeah, it's just really

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Speaker 10: hard to know what to say and what to do

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Speaker 10: right now. And I just I feel really hopeful in

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Speaker 10: this room, and I feel like we just need to

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Speaker 10: keep fighting and speaking up and protesting, and our voices

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Speaker 10: really do matter, and the people matter, and.

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Speaker 11: Let's say sorry, thanks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a child, Well, why does what she says

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Speaker 1: have any relevance at all. She's worth fifty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's why she lives in a fourteen million dollar

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Speaker 1: mansion on stolen land herself. Do you think she's giving

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Speaker 1: it back? And how can land be stolen? Afforders don't

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Speaker 1: exist in the first place. Of course, none of that

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Speaker 1: makes any sense. Like I said, a multimillionaire with private security.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're going to go to provo utah Now,

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Speaker 1: Like I said, with that case involving Charlie Kirk's alleged assassin,

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Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson, let's go to the.

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Speaker 12: Courtroom basis and disqualification. If miss orlinarily tailored of the

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Speaker 12: news organization that filed the request in order for electronic

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Speaker 12: coverage of the court proceedings for that hearing from serving

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Speaker 12: as pole camera operator. In this matter, where such a

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Speaker 12: measure is required to ensure compliance with the standing decorum

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Speaker 12: order and protect the rights of the parties, any such

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Speaker 12: real media measure would be considered only as a last

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Speaker 12: resort and lead to the extent necessary to address the

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Speaker 12: specific violations at issue. Council have an opportunity to provide

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Speaker 12: input before the Court makes any final determinations. Regarding sanctions.

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Speaker 12: The Court values that input and will give it careful consideration.

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Speaker 12: I want to be clear that these measures are intended

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Speaker 12: to preserve open and transparent courts while ensuring fairness to

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Speaker 12: do all parties, and the Court remains fully committed to

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Speaker 12: the presumption of open proceedings under the applicable rules. Rather,

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Speaker 12: these measures exist to protect the constitutional rights of all

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Speaker 12: parties while preserving the integrity, fairness, and orderly conduct of

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Speaker 12: these proceedings. With respect to the media covered in the courtroom,

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Speaker 12: the Court offers the following additional guidance to assist everywhere

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Speaker 12: in navigating today's proceedings. The pole camera has been relocated

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Speaker 12: to the rear of the courtroom. The camera operator shall

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Speaker 12: not zoom in on any individual seated at council table.

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Speaker 12: When council tables are filmed, the camera must remain in

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Speaker 12: a wide shot that includes all individuals seated at the table.

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Speaker 12: The ras and witnesses may be filmed individually when standing

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Speaker 12: at the lectroom or seated in the witness box. And

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Speaker 12: we also ask counsels to be mindful that microphones are

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Speaker 12: located throughout the courtroom and may pick up conversations. Council

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Speaker 12: we wish to consider using screen.

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Speaker 5: Protectors on laptops and.

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Speaker 12: Taking reasonable steps such as covering one's mouth when speaking

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Speaker 12: to avoid the inavertent capture of private communications, whether by camera, microphone,

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Speaker 12: or those present in the courtroom. Third, the Court wishes

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Speaker 12: to address the camera operator at this time. Mister Josh Demik,

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Speaker 12: could you come forward to the electrum. Could you please

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Speaker 12: state your name and spell it for the record.

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Speaker 6: Yes, my name is Josh Demik, J O, S, H,

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Speaker 6: D E, M I, C K. Thank you.

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Speaker 12: The intention is not to cause you a new embarrassment

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Speaker 12: or discomfort, although it's probably not spiling that way here

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Speaker 12: in your names. I simply want to ensure that the

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Speaker 12: expectations for today's proceedings are clear. During today's hearing, what

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Speaker 12: is your primary role?

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Speaker 13: My role is to cover the hearing that we have

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Speaker 13: going on this afternoon, and I have read over the

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Speaker 13: decorum and the EMC as well. My plan is to

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Speaker 13: solely focus on the individuals that will be speaking up here.

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Speaker 12: All right, you anticipated my next question, which was have

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Speaker 12: you read the December tweeny third twenty twenty five standing

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Speaker 12: the core order which you have and we appreciate, and

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Speaker 12: do you understand the guidance as they relate to your

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Speaker 12: responsibilities today, including the additional guidance regarding county position at

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Speaker 12: council table and the filming of attorneys and witnesses that

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Speaker 12: I just put on the record that was not in

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Speaker 12: the decline order.

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Speaker 6: Yes, your owner, all right?

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Speaker 12: Do you need any additional time to review the order

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Speaker 12: or to reposition the counter to ensure full compliance?

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Speaker 4: No, your honor.

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Speaker 12: Do you anticipate any difficulty complaining with the order or

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Speaker 12: today's guidance?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 6: All right, Thank you, mister Dimmick, Thank you.

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Speaker 12: Before I let you go any and as I just

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Speaker 12: ask questions and the pool came the operator, mister Dimick,

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Speaker 12: and I'll turn to counsel.

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Speaker 6: I do wished to weigh on, uh what the court

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Speaker 6: has just done.

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Speaker 5: Oh, your honor, thank you, thank.

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Speaker 14: You, Yes, thank thank your honor Richard Novak for uh,

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Speaker 14: mister Robinson, may.

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Speaker 5: I speak from here?

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Speaker 6: I yes, mister nova right, thank you. Are we.

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Speaker 14: Appreciate that the court on its own court moved the videographer.

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Speaker 14: I don't know where the still photographer is, but we

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Speaker 14: continue to be concerned that any video images of mister

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Speaker 14: Robinson during court proceedings close up images of mister Robinson

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Speaker 14: during court proceedings interfere with his.

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Speaker 5: Right to a fair trial.

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Speaker 14: I I think I heard everything the court said about

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Speaker 14: the videographer, but the still photographer is still seated in

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Speaker 14: the same place where they were ladlast week, and we

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Speaker 14: would ask the court to order the still photographer not

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Speaker 14: to take any photographs of mister Robinson's face or person

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Speaker 14: during the hearing, in the same way that the videographer

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Speaker 14: has now been ordered to be focused on the court,

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Speaker 14: the witness, if somebody's testifying, counsel at the lectern, or

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Speaker 14: generally the people seated at counsel.

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Speaker 5: At the court referred to as council table.

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Speaker 14: We do not want to see still images again of

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Speaker 14: mister Robinson's face in the media with more speculation about

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Speaker 14: meaning of his facial expressions or the lack thereof. And

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Speaker 14: so we really appreciate what the court did on its

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Speaker 14: own suspante I guess we would say, but we have

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Speaker 14: the same concerns about.

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Speaker 5: The still photographer, all right, And before.

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Speaker 12: I address that anywhere seems as realist to mister Demmi,

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Speaker 12: I wanted to excuse him to go back standing.

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Speaker 6: In front of the quote is no fun. I recognized him.

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Speaker 5: I was just trying to keep him up. There's allers see.

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Speaker 6: All right, mister Dimmick, thank you so much, thank.

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Speaker 4: You very much.

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Speaker 12: All Right, before I address that, I'll allow the parties

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Speaker 12: to be heard before I address what mister Novack has

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Speaker 12: brought up as relates to the still photographer.

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Speaker 6: To the state.

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Speaker 15: Your honor, I think your honors appropriately concerned about the

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Speaker 15: video of the close ups of mister Robinson. I'm not

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Speaker 15: sure that he still camera presents the same concern This

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Speaker 15: is a public hearing.

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Speaker 5: And.

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Speaker 16: This is a public hearing, and I think that, but

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Speaker 16: it's appropriate that still photography be taken. I don't know

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Speaker 16: that it raises the same concerns that your Honor is

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Speaker 16: raised with the video.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 12: Any other party wish to.

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Speaker 17: Be hurt, I'll be brief your Honor Michael jod On

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Speaker 17: behalf of the news media read reading that with what

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Speaker 17: the stage is just said. The concerns that I understand

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Speaker 17: the court trying to address involve the capture of, you know,

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Speaker 17: moving lips that can be used by elip readers. We

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Speaker 17: have dealt in the past with inadvertent you overhearing of

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Speaker 17: actual conversations. I don't think still cameras present that the

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Speaker 17: same issue.

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Speaker 5: The idea that.

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Speaker 17: A participant in a public hearing, including the defendant, cannot

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Speaker 17: have their image captured by a still camera because a

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Speaker 17: facial expression is somehow too much to let the public see,

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Speaker 17: simply don't agree with it. Is, of course, the court's

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Speaker 17: prerogative to set the guidelines that it believes are appropriate

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Speaker 17: to balance these interests. It will come of no surprise

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Speaker 17: to the Court that the news media believes that that

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Speaker 17: particular measure of saying, even a photograph of a defendant

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Speaker 17: in a public courtroom is too much to allow without

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Speaker 17: threatening fair trial rights in a way that goes beyond

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Speaker 17: that balance.

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Speaker 6: We think that's too far, all right.

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Speaker 12: Mister Neevak, I do have a question for you. Has

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Speaker 12: there been a violation of the decorum murder by the

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Speaker 12: still photographer.

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Speaker 6: Any of these proceedings.

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Speaker 14: I am not aware of violations by the still photographer,

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Speaker 14: but I am very aware, if.

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Speaker 5: I may, of.

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Speaker 14: What we believe is unfairly prejudicial media content based on

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Speaker 14: the images and video images. Yes, can be embedded in

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Speaker 14: electronic media, but still photographs also are still appearing. Still

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Speaker 14: photographs from the courtroom are still appearing in print media,

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Speaker 14: and in less we know what we've referred to as

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Speaker 14: less formal media channels. So we are still very concerned.

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Speaker 14: And I don't understand why there would be any even

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Speaker 14: marginal negative access to the public to this hearing by

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Speaker 14: the still photographer being in the back of the courtroom

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Speaker 14: and taking photographs of.

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Speaker 5: The court being your honor of witnesses on the witness stand.

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Speaker 14: If that's what the Court's going to permit of counsel,

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Speaker 14: I don't have a problem with that, but we continue

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Speaker 14: to have grave concerns of huge photographical lenses being focused

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Speaker 14: on our client and the results of that. And I'll

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00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 14: just make a representation to the court that while we

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Speaker 14: were in court last time, mister Burt and I both

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00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 14: received literally in real time, long, ranting voicemails from people

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Speaker 14: who were watching the proceedings now that was on video.

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Speaker 14: I received another one of those calls today referring to

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Speaker 14: my client's facial expressions from somebody who decided to leave

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00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 14: a long, aggressive message on my office phone. And I'm

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Speaker 14: very concerned that even still images of mister Robinson's visage

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Speaker 14: in the courtroom are going to interfere with his right

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Speaker 14: to a fair trial and we've reached the point because

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Speaker 14: of the prior violations that have occurred and because of

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00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 14: the nature of the media coverage where mister Robinson feels

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Speaker 14: like he may have to make a choice between two

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Speaker 14: of his sixth Amendment rights, and that's the right to

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Speaker 14: affair trial and the right to be present.

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Speaker 5: And we want him to be able to have both

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Speaker 5: of those rights.

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Speaker 14: And the way and all of his rights, and the

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Speaker 14: way he can exercise both his right to be present

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Speaker 14: and his right to affair trial is for the Court

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00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,600
Speaker 14: to move the camera to where the video camera.

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Speaker 4: Was ordered to be.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, mister Nevack.

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Speaker 12: Thank you all parties. I appreciate your input. This is

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00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 12: an important matter and the Court takes it very seriously.

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Speaker 12: I note that there has been no violations of the

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Speaker 12: December twenty twenty five decorum order by the still photographer.

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Speaker 12: Not being said, this Court wishes to exercise caution and

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Speaker 12: will request that the still photographer go behind the bar,

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Speaker 12: to the bar being the separating lower wall, and reposition

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00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 12: this camera at that place. I appreciate the patients in

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Speaker 12: all parties as we do this, and again this Court

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Speaker 12: is balancing opening transparent courts with the constitutional rights of

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Speaker 12: all parties involved, all rights. Well, that's occurring. I'll turn

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Speaker 12: to the state. The court would appreciate a brief update

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Speaker 12: on the status of discovery.

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Speaker 5: We ought a Chad Green enter for the State.

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Speaker 18: To date, we have shared with the defense one hundred

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Speaker 18: percent of what we have received from law enforcement. With

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Speaker 18: that said, we have been informed late last week that

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00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 18: there is approximately where there are several terabytes of digital

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Speaker 18: evidence from phones and other digital devices that the State

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Speaker 18: Bureau of Investigations has in their possession. We are collecting

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Speaker 18: a twenty ten pherabyte hard drive to two of them,

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Speaker 18: one for us and one for the defense. We did

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00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 18: receive a letter, i think this morning from the defense

343
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Speaker 18: outlining their expectations with respect to how that would be

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00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 18: received original form and more specifics as well. So we're

345
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 18: in the process of coordinating that download onto those hard

346
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 18: drives of the digital evidence that's been collected, and we

347
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 18: will provide that as soon as we receive that downloaded

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Speaker 18: to the defense. We are still working with law enforcement

349
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Speaker 18: on the download of approximately thirty days of all of

350
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Speaker 18: the surveillance video at UVU. We were told it was

351
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Speaker 18: approximately three hundred terabytes and that's being downloaded twenty four

352
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Speaker 18: to seven, so that is still in process. So we're

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00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 18: actively working on that and looking forward to collecting that

354
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Speaker 18: and passing that down to the defense. It will need

355
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 18: to be shared in some sort of similar fashion, I'm

356
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 18: sure with respect to hard drives.

357
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Speaker 6: Thank you, mister Greener and its defense want to be heard.

358
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Speaker 19: That is correct, your honor, Stacey Visser on behalf of

359
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 19: the defense. We are in communication with the state about

360
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 19: what we believe is missing at this point, and we

361
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 19: are anticipating a large amount of digital discovery in the

362
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 19: next few weeks to that we will need to process.

363
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Speaker 6: All right, thank you.

364
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 5: Now supplement this conversation, your honor. Briefly, thank your honer.

365
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 14: We've kind of divided up discovery responsibilities. In mind is

366
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 14: to address what I'll call non digital forensics.

367
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 5: So there are many.

368
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Speaker 14: Items of seized evidence that have been sent to various

369
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 14: law enforcement labs around the country. Without getting into the details,

370
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 14: we have some very what I'll refer to as summary

371
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 14: reports of those evaluations, but as the state attorneys know,

372
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 14: we're going to need all of the underlying data.

373
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 5: Notes. This relate to things like DNA and other forensics.

374
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Speaker 14: So if we haven't provided them with a very very

375
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Speaker 14: detailed list of the types of documents we need. We will,

376
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 14: but I think mister Grunander could speak to this in

377
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 14: more detailed in terms of the status of that.

378
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 5: But I think that's another big chunk of.

379
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 14: Materials that presumably the State Attorney's Office has not received

380
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 14: yet from law enforcement, and so obviously they haven't had

381
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 14: a chance to give it to us, and we haven't

382
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 14: had an opportunity to look at it or to have

383
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 14: our own experts review those.

384
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 5: Types of materials.

385
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 12: Thank you, mister Novak, all right before they Mister Devender,

386
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 12: we'll make.

387
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 18: A point to a follow up on that with the

388
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 18: law enforcement agencies, will communicate with Defense Council on that judgement.

389
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 6: I appreciate the cooperation between the parties.

390
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 12: Before the Court proceeds further, it's appropriate to address the record.

391
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 12: The Court notes the recent filing by victim Representative Erica

392
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 12: Kirk involving the statuetory right to a speedy disposition of

393
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 12: the charges under Utah Code Section seventy seven, Dash thirty

394
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 12: eight Dashed seven, sub two. This Court raises this issue

395
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 12: solely to ensure that the record accurately reflects the statutory

396
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 12: obligations governing the matters presently before it, and not to

397
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 12: suggest any view regarding the merits or outcome of these proceedings.

398
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 12: Under the statute, a crime victim has a right to

399
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 12: a speedy disposition of charges, free from unwanted delay. When

400
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 12: considering a defendant's request to continue a previously scheduled trial

401
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 12: or other significant criminal proceeding, the court must inquire into

402
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 12: the circumstances asserted as the basis for delay, and must

403
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 12: consider the victim's interests in timely resolution together with the

404
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 12: defendant's institutional and statutory rights. The Court emphasizes that the

405
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 12: defendant's rights to due process, to present evidence, and to

406
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 12: receive fully impartial consideration of all.

407
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 6: Arguments remain paramount and undiminished.

408
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 12: The court's responsibility to balance these interests faithfully and without preference.

409
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 6: To any party.

410
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 12: As previously stated on the record at the September twenty

411
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 12: ninth hearing, Justice demand that both of these principles, the

412
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 12: rights of the accused and the rights of the.

413
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 6: Victims, be honored without compromise.

414
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 12: Without framework established. The Court will hear briefly from Council

415
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 12: concerning how you proposed proceeding today.

416
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 14: Thank you, Honor Richard Novac, again from mister Robinson. We're

417
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 14: prepared to continue with mister Gray's testimony. We did file

418
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 14: what I captured, a renewed request that this court proceed

419
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 14: under a particular section of the Utah Code to refer

420
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 14: this motion to the Attorney General. So it's obviously up

421
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 14: to your honor to decide if the Court wants to

422
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 14: address that renewed request in writing now or at a

423
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 14: different time. I do want whenever it is the Court's

424
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 14: view that it's timely.

425
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 5: To address the issue that the Court just brought up,

426
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 5: which is how the court, Well, what I want to

427
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 5: address is how the Court.

428
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 14: Will manage the question of whether mister Robinson needs more

429
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 14: time to prepare for the preliminary hearing. So the court

430
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 14: got an update on the status of discovery. The Court

431
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 14: noted Ms Kirk's filing, which of course we are all

432
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 14: aware of, and we understand her rights.

433
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 5: As the representative of the victim in this case. There

434
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 5: are challenges under Utah law when the defense.

435
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 14: Needs to communicate to the court the details of its

436
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 14: diligence in terms of preparation for a hearing, because we're

437
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 14: not going to make a public filing of work product,

438
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 14: and I'm sure the Court understands exactly what I mean.

439
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 14: So I'm what I'm saying is the Court brought up

440
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 14: the filing and the significance of that for future proceedings,

441
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 14: We're going to need to have, if I may, what

442
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 14: I would call sort of a case management conference at

443
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 14: some point about how the Court will manage our need

444
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 14: to be able to share with the court the status

445
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 14: of our work, which we believe is confidential and privileged,

446
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 14: in light of the fact that every time we file

447
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 14: something and ask the Court to designate it as private,

448
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 14: we have counsel for the media trying to unseal it.

449
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 14: And we also don't intend to disclose to the state

450
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 14: the status of our diligence, and so I'm not asking

451
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 14: the Court to address it now.

452
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 5: I guess I'm just trying.

453
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 14: To put a post it note on somebody's list.

454
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 5: It's certainly on our list, and we didn't.

455
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 14: Really intend to bring that up at the outset of

456
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 14: today's proceeding, but since the Court mentioned Miss Kirk's filing,

457
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 14: it just seems like the right time to mention that.

458
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 14: So we're prepared to proceed with further testimony from mister Gray,

459
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 14: and keep going with the evidential your hearing unless the

460
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 14: court wants to address what I captioned our renewed request.

461
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 16: Thank you, mister, Thank you to the State and your honor.

462
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 16: The State's prepared to go forward with the evidentiary hearing.

463
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 16: We are prepared also to address this renewed request if

464
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 16: your honor.

465
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 11: Would like to do that at the outset, I would

466
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 11: suggest that your on our set a time limit on

467
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 11: that argument, so that if assuming that that motion's denied,

468
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 11: that we can move on with the evidentiary hearing. We've

469
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 11: got witnesses who've been subpoenaed, they're ready to testify.

470
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 12: All right, Well, I appreciate that updating, and I do

471
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 12: want to give some guidance of how today's hearing is

472
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 12: going to go, and both parties.

473
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 5: Have touched upon that.

474
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 12: Based on the record before the court.

475
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 5: As it relates to the evidential.

476
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 12: Hearing, and in order to ensure a fair, orderly and

477
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 12: efficient proceeding, the Court will proceed as follows. First, we

478
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 12: will address what mister Knobat just brought up in regards

479
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 12: to the referral to the Attorney General's office briefly, and

480
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 12: you'll see why I say briefly with my next statement,

481
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 12: Council will have until four point thirty to present evidence

482
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 12: in creating cross examination and unill redirect Motions for supplemental

483
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 12: briefing are denied at this time as a Court finds

484
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 12: the issues adequately framed for today's proceedings. These parameters are

485
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 12: not intended to emit any party subsident rights, but to

486
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 12: keep the proceedings focused and free from any unnecessary delay.

487
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 12: Upon the close of the evidence, the Court will proceed

488
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 12: to argument. Each side will be allotted fifteen minutes. Mister

489
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 12: Reebak orted to any of the attorneys who had been

490
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 12: making closing arguments, if you intend to deserve time fully, Bottle,

491
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 12: please allocate your time accordingly. This court will conclude.

492
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 6: At five o'clock.

493
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 12: And in addition, the Court anticipates issue It's really real

494
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 12: web ax in order to give the evidence and the

495
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 12: arguments presented today the careful and deliberate consideration.

496
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 6: They weren't now.

497
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 12: Proceeding will be scheduled at the conclusion of today's hearing,

498
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 12: and so counsel with that in mind, we will turn

499
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 12: to the motion to refer or the motion concerning the

500
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 12: Attorney General's Office I will hear from both parties. It

501
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 12: is your time. I am not putting constraints on who

502
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 12: you call what questions you asked in part, but keep

503
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 12: in mind these time.

504
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 6: Constraints as we address this issue.

505
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: Mister Runback, thank you ONMA.

506
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 14: We filed what I captioned what we captioned the renewed

507
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 14: request because obviously at the last hearing we brought the

508
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 14: request verbally, and.

509
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 5: Obviously the Court's read our renewed request and our points

510
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 5: and authorities.

511
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 14: We received the brief written by mister Ballard, which is

512
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 14: very clear and very well written, and we have understood.

513
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 5: The views expressed there.

514
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 14: We just disagree fundamentally on what that Code section means.

515
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 5: We disagree fundamentally.

516
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 14: On the suggestion that there's a separation of powers problem.

517
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 14: It is ultimately this Court's responsibility to ensure that parties

518
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 14: are represented by conflict free council. Obviously, in the legal profession,

519
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 14: there is an initial expectation that council will avoid conflicts,

520
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 14: but there are always situations where a party needs to

521
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 14: bring a conflict on the other side to the Court's attention,

522
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 14: and the Court has both the statutory authority and the

523
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 14: inherent authority under the common law to do something about it.

524
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 14: So we do believe that this is well within the

525
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 14: court's discretion. The statute actually tells the court that it

526
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 14: needs to encourage the state to seek assistance.

527
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 5: That seems to be a gentle way to say, uh,

528
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 5: that the state.

529
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 14: Is at least disqualified from litigating its own disqualification issue.

530
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 14: And then I'm gonna reserve the rest of my time

531
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 14: for our evidentiary hearing.

532
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 5: And closing arguments.

533
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 12: Thank you, mister, turning to the state ster Pallard, m

534
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 12: your honor, it feels like ground hard day here we are.

535
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 16: We've got again, We're we're supposed to be having an

536
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 16: invidant you're hearing and mister Gray should be on the stand,

537
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 16: and instead we're arguing again this issue about whether this

538
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 16: court can refer this this issue to the Attorney General's office.

539
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 16: And I guess if I were in your honor's position,

540
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 16: I'd be wondering why the defense in c on raising

541
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 16: this issue in a way that doesn't.

542
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 12: Allow this court or the parties to be able to.

543
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 16: Fully analyze it and brief it. The defense finally did

544
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 16: file a written motion, but waited until Friday afternoon to

545
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 16: file that, so, as we've outlined in our alternative point

546
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 16: in our response, I think this Court would be well

547
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 16: within its discretion to just deny that motion as untimely.

548
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 5: But on the merits of that motion. I think as

549
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 5: we've explained in.

550
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 16: Our response, and your honors indicated that you've read that,

551
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 16: I think we've explained clearly why this statute does not

552
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 16: apply in the way that the defense claims it does,

553
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 16: and I'm happy to walk through the statute and the

554
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 16: points that we've made. I don't want to be labor that.

555
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 16: If your Honor has any questions about the statute, I'm

556
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 16: happy to answer those. But I think it's clear that

557
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 16: this statute does not allow the court to replace a prosecutor.

558
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 16: At best, what it allows is the court to recommend

559
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 16: that the county attorney seek the help of the Attorney

560
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 16: General's office. So I don't believe that the statute has

561
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 16: any application. The cases that the defense a cided are

562
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 16: irrelevant to this issue, and for those reasons, unless the

563
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 16: Court has any further questions about the state's opposition, i'd

564
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 16: submit it.

565
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 12: Thank you, mister Ball. Anything further from the parties before

566
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 12: this court issues are really.

567
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 5: No thank you.

568
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 12: All right, So before these courts, the defendants remed request

569
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 12: to refer the Penny notions disqualify to the office of

570
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 12: the Utah Attorney General. In support of that request, the

571
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 12: defendant relies upon Utah Code Section seventeen Dash eighteen a

572
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 12: Dash three oh four, which provides that the Attorney General

573
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 12: shall assist a county prosecutor any of the court finds

574
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 12: that the prosecutor is unable to satisfactorily and adequately perform

575
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 12: the duties of prosecution and recommends that the prosecutor seek

576
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 12: additional legal assistance. The defendant argues that where there exists

577
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 12: a non frivous basis factual basis suggesting a potential conflict

578
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 12: of interest, the court should make such a finding and

579
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 12: recommend assistance from the Attorney journal. The Court has carefully

580
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 12: considered that argument and reviewed the briefings. However, the statute

581
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 12: does not adopt the standard proposed by the defendant, nor

582
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 12: does such a standard appear in existing case law or

583
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 12: court rules. The statute requires specific findings regarding the prosecutor's

584
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 12: inability to satisfactory and adequately perform prosecutorial duties before referral

585
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 12: is appropriate.

586
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 5: At this stage of the proceeding.

587
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 12: The Court is not persuaded by those statutory that those

588
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 12: statutory conditions have been met.

589
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 6: Based on the.

590
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 12: Record presently before the court, there is now indication that

591
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 12: the Utah County Attorney's Office lacks the resources, knowledge, or

592
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 12: ability to litigate the motion to disqualify on behalf of

593
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 12: the state. Accordingly, the Court cannot make findings required under

594
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 12: section seventeen Dash eighteen a Dash three oh four to

595
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 12: justify referral to the Attorney General's Office. For these reasons,

596
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 12: and without expressing any views on ultimate merits of the

597
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 12: motion to disqualify itself, the defendant's renewed request for a.

598
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 6: Referral is respectfully denied.

599
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 12: All right, Council, let's go ahead, and mister Beller, thank you.

600
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 7: Eric.

601
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 5: Could I just clean up one piece of the record.

602
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 16: You want to refer to the statute as seventeen eighteen A,

603
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 16: but I think it's actually been renumbered. It's seventeen sixty

604
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 16: eight seventeen Dash sixty eight.

605
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 5: Dash three oh four is the current citation.

606
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 12: Great, thank you, I appreciate that correction, and that is correct.

607
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 12: I appreciate that. And to clarify the record. Thank you

608
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 12: to both parties, and so my ruly reflects that seventeen

609
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 12: sixty eight a dosh three oh four. All right, counsel,

610
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 12: are we already to proceed with the continuation the direct

611
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 12: examination of mister Greg Yes, except to.

612
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 14: Quickly implement the exclusionary order that the Court entered at

613
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 14: the last here and with respect to prospective witnesses.

614
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 12: All right, the Court will take a very brief three

615
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 12: minute break in order to accomplish all parties.

616
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 5: Speaking with whoever needs.

617
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 12: To be spoken to and for them to be excluded,

618
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 12: and then we will proceed. It is now one thirty eight,

619
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 12: will come back at one forty one. Court is in

620
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 12: the brief recess.

621
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: Right, all right, we'll go take a three minute break,

622
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: and while we're doing that, we're going to bring in

623
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: Real America's Voice correspondent Oscar Ramirez. He's on the ground

624
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: in side of one of l Salvador's most notorious high

625
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: security prison has been visiting. They're documenting the government's cracked

626
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: down and cartels and gain linked terror groups. Oscar, We're

627
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: part of the expansion of RAV Espanol and our new

628
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: international news network. Oscar joins me live now. Oscar, good

629
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: to see you today. You've been inside these prisons. We

630
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: have a short period of time here, so I want

631
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: you to tell the folks in detail what you've seen.

632
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: What you've witnessed.

633
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 20: Well, this is the complete terrorists. They're designated as Sarah's

634
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 20: that Donald Trump has designated as Sarah's Naibukeeli, the president

635
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 20: of at Salvador designated these people as sara As. They're

636
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 20: the MS gang members from the msaighte and MS thirteen.

637
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 20: These people were terrorizing not only in the Salvadora but

638
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 20: also in the United States of America. And remember under

639
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 20: the Bottom administration, these kind of individuals were going back

640
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 20: and forth from the borders of Mexic When the United

641
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 20: States has some of them, we interviewed them and they

642
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 20: were aligned with Bartels.

643
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: That's how infiltrated they were.

644
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 20: And how these people now they are incarcerated on this

645
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 20: prison that is supposed to both it has the capacity

646
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 20: for forty thousand, and it has right now fifty percent

647
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 20: of the capacity already in.

648
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,479
Speaker 3: But the reality is something else.

649
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 20: Some of them have sentence of seven hundred and eighty

650
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 20: years because of all the damage that they have done,

651
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 20: these people are not getting out. This is the way

652
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 20: to eliminate terrorists, plumba country, and bring past the bring

653
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 20: back the peace of the citizens.

654
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what are your impressions being inside these prisons.

655
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: Obviously these are some of the worst to the worst,

656
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, what is your impression on the conditions

657
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: inside those prisons which have gotten a lot of press

658
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: here in the United States, your thoughts.

659
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 20: Well, some of the press that has just left us,

660
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 20: the one that is just basically attacking the upul kind

661
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 20: is saying that this is a human They're receiving the

662
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 20: humanitarian treatment. They have their rect time for thirty minutes,

663
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 20: they have their meals also, they eat for thirty minutes.

664
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 20: They live under this conditions because they are designated as terrorists.

665
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 20: They're never leaving this prison. They terrorized the whole country.

666
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 20: They were decapitating this member, in extortion and kidnapping. The

667
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 20: worst are the worst crimes that we're doing it to

668
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 20: this community and not only to hear to this country,

669
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 20: but Central America, North America. So this is the actual

670
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 20: punishment that the president of atsabador It says, spreading to

671
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 20: the whole continent.

672
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: You become an.

673
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 20: MSCAM member, you are a terrorist, and we're coming after

674
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 20: you and we're going to bring you back to psychology.

675
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

676
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: Do you think this is getting across to the folks

677
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: in the United States that are here illegally?

678
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 2: Do they hear these stories?

679
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: Do they trickle north from places like Al Salvador where

680
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: we're holding the worst to the worst? Do you think

681
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: that there's a an indication to people that are still

682
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: in the United States illegally that they could end up there?

683
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 20: Yes, absolutely, there has been a huge percentage of these

684
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 20: individuals there has. Right now the prison of Coda, it

685
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 20: has more than twenty thousand infraction. A lot of these

686
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 20: twenty thousand in fraction that were extradited and delivered by

687
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 20: the Trump administration into Naibo Kelly. These were criminals that

688
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 20: they were allowed in by the part of the administration

689
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 20: and they are now enhanced of the and Salvadorian government.

690
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 20: So justice it is being done. A lot of these

691
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 20: criminals they know that they're going to be found and

692
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 20: they know that they're going to be brought to justice

693
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 20: and to this facility that you know, it is an

694
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 20: incredible facility. The tension you actually feel it when you're

695
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 20: coming in there and you're walking in through that particular place.

696
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 20: But you look at these people in the eyes, and

697
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 20: that is what they deserved. They terrorized this whole country.

698
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 20: They completely you know, tear this almost this country to pieces.

699
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 20: And they were you know, it was a cancer, that

700
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 20: it was a spreading, a plague, that it was a

701
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 20: spreading all over the continent.

702
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: Steep.

703
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me ask you this, Oscar.

704
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: You spent a tremendous amount of time in Central and

705
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: South America during the height of the invasion that I says,

706
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: during the Biden years.

707
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: What are you learning now?

708
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean the Darien gapp I understand is basically empty, abandoned,

709
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: the trails of people that you were there. You showed

710
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: us a pictures live of people just streaming through.

711
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: What's going on today.

712
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: It's a complete shutdown state.

713
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 20: If it wasn't for the Trump administration, it would be

714
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 20: a complete disaster. Or not only that, the cartel Flan

715
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 20: delf there was controlled in South America in Colombia completely

716
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 20: shut down. The whole trafficking system is completely shut down.

717
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 20: The abuse, it's one of the things that nobody has mentioned.

718
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 20: And of course the leftists in the United States of

719
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 20: America America is not gonna mention Donald Trump saved lives

720
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 20: save children from dying. Inside of the Darien Gath say

721
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 20: women from being raped, save save men from dying. You

722
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 20: don't see no caravans and south of the border. On

723
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 20: the four years of the Body administration, I walked twelve

724
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 20: caravans documented for real America's boys US. Multiple people died,

725
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 20: hundreds of people were being extortion, hundreds of people were

726
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 20: being kidnapped on the borders with Mexico and the United

727
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 20: States of America. That it is non existing right now.

728
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 20: It is on the low low level. It is highly controlled.

729
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 20: And what they have done completely shutting down the border

730
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 20: on the north part of Mexico with the United States

731
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 20: of America has been a domino effect and designating all

732
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 20: of these organizations as terrorists. That has completely held for

733
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 20: other countries to do their job.

734
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 2: Oscar excellent reporting from the field.

735
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: As always, We'll be going back now to Utah Provo

736
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: Utah's Charlie Tyler Robinson hearing resumes just in time.

737
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 14: Here we got involved in law enforcement decisions about which

738
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 14: potential witnesses to interview and not interviewed. You're call testifying

739
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 14: about that.

740
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 21: I said that our role as prosecutors in Utai realized

741
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 21: the US Attorney's office. They actually direct investigations. We don't

742
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 21: direct those investigations.

743
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 14: And so that was I was asking about that in

744
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 14: the context of whether or not the adult child of

745
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 14: one of your prosecutors had been interviewed or not interviewed

746
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 14: at the direction of your office.

747
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, I think I understand what you're saying.

748
00:44:53,960 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 14: Okay, So, subsequent to the hearing on January sixteenth, that

749
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 14: adult child was interviewed by SBI.

750
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 4: Correct, Not to my knowledge.

751
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 14: Okay, as you sit here today, you have no knowledge

752
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 14: whether that adult child sat for an interview on January

753
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 14: twenty first with the State Bureau of Investigation at a

754
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 14: highway patrol facility in Orum.

755
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 4: I I'm not aware of that.

756
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 14: And so then you haven't seen the reports generated from

757
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 14: that interview. No, you haven't listened to the audio recording

758
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 14: of that interview. No, nobody told you that that interview

759
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 14: was going to happen.

760
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 21: No, not that I can remember. That's completely okay.

761
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 14: Well, I'll represent to you that it was five days

762
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 14: after the hearing on January twenty first.

763
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: Does that refresh your recollection at all? Oh? Are you

764
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 4: talking about after the hearing? I am aware of that. Yes, okay.

765
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 14: And how did that come to be Because you testified

766
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 14: that your office has no involvement in.

767
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 4: The investigation. It was a point that you.

768
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 21: Had pointed out, and so out of an abundance of caution,

769
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 21: I believe it was mister McBride that decided to go

770
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 21: ahead and do.

771
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 14: That and have the adult child the interviewed. Yes, so

772
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 14: as you understand that mister McBride advised SBI to do

773
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 14: that interview.

774
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 4: That's my understanding, understood.

775
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: Okay.

776
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 14: You also testified on January sixteenth that you weren't really

777
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 14: sure whether your office had a written policy for how

778
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 14: to deal with either actual conflicts of interest or the

779
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 14: appearance of conflicts of interest.

780
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 4: Yeah. I assume that they did, but I couldn't point

781
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 4: to one at that time.

782
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: Okay.

783
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 14: And then after the hearing, did you locate a written

784
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 14: by I did, okay? And at the time that you

785
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,479
Speaker 14: were discussing with the prosecutor whose adult child, we're talking

786
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 14: about the fact that that child had been at UVU

787
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 14: on September tenth and had witnessed many of the events

788
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 14: surrounding mister Kirk's death. Did you actually consult that written

789
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 14: policy back in October?

790
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 16: No?

791
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 4: But I followed it. Had you previously read it? I'm

792
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 4: sure I had at some point.

793
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 21: I mean, it's a pretty standard policy. If there's a

794
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 21: conflict within the office then or a potential conflict, then

795
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 21: the attorney.

796
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 4: Will notify us.

797
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 21: We'll review it and decide whether any action is needed,

798
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 21: if at all.

799
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 4: Okay, But when that's what we did.

800
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 14: When I asked you on January sixteenth, is there a

801
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 14: written policy.

802
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 4: Your answer was, you know, I'm not sure.

803
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 14: Right, there was a subpoena for documents that you received

804
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 14: and complied with over the last week or so, right, yes, okay.

805
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 14: And one of the things that we asked for in

806
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 14: that subpoena was any memoranda or writings that memorialized how

807
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 14: your office handled the potential conflict of interest.

808
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 21: As I understood the subpoena, it's any discussions regarding whether

809
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 21: or not there is a conflict and so yeah.

810
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 4: And so.

811
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 14: What I take from the return on the subpoena, if

812
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 14: I could call it, that, is that there isn't any

813
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 14: memo to the file. There's no legal analysis, there's no

814
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 14: memorialization of the decision that you made. That there's neither

815
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 14: an actual conflict or an appearance.

816
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 4: Of a conflict. No, there's not. You mentioned when you were.

817
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 14: Testifying at the last hearing that you are the president

818
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 14: elect of SWAP.

819
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: Could you just remind the court what SWAP is.

820
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 21: SWAP is a statewide association of public prosecutors or public

821
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 21: attorneys and prosecutors. It's basically a lobbying group with respect

822
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 21: to legislative matters that affect prosecution.

823
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 4: And how long have you been a member of SWAP?

824
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 4: For about as long as you can remember.

825
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 21: No, the three years that I've been County Attorney, I've

826
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 21: been a member, a board member of SWAP.

827
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 14: And are you familiar with a document that they produced

828
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 14: called Utah Prosecutors Best Practices.

829
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 4: I know that they have that document.

830
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 14: Yes, did you consult that document with respect to what

831
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 14: your office should do in connection with the potential conflict

832
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 14: of interest or the appearance of a conflict of interest

833
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 14: that we're discussing.

834
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 4: I did not. I don't believe I consulted it.

835
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 21: I relied on my twenty five years of knowledge of

836
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 21: conflicts and so forth.

837
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 14: You don't know what I would like to do if

838
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 14: I may, is approach mister Gray with a document that

839
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 14: I'm just going to mark for identification as Exhibit I,

840
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 14: and that's because we've previously marked for identification.

841
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 4: A through H. If I have my alphabet correct.

842
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 14: And if I'm passed one up to the court, I

843
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 14: will if the court needs a no.

844
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 6: I feel free to approach mister Gray and present.

845
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm handing you something that's mark only. Oh

846
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, of course.

847
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 16: Mm hmmm.

848
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 4: Have you seen this document before, I've seen it? Yes,

849
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 4: all right.

850
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 21: I mean there's a lot more than just conflict in

851
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 21: our best practices.

852
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 14: Absolutely, but we're just gonna talk about that, okay, all right,

853
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 14: So what I'd like to do is turn your attention

854
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 14: to page two for that document, which has a whole

855
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 14: section addressing conflicts of interest.

856
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 4: Would you agree with.

857
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 14: Me that it starts in the middle page two, Yes,

858
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 14: all right, and you see what I'll referred to as

859
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 14: General Standard one point three zero conflict avoidance.

860
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 4: Yes. Could you just read that aloud for the record, please.

861
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 21: A prosecutors should not hold an interest or engage in

862
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 21: activities that conflict, have a significant potential to conflict, or

863
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 21: likely to create a reasonable appearance of conflict with the

864
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 21: duties and responsibilities of the prosecutor's office.

865
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 14: What what do you take to mean the reasonable appearance

866
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 14: of conflict?

867
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 21: There has to be a real, actual conflict, that there

868
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 21: could be actually an appearance of that.

869
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 14: Conflict, and that would be in the views of the

870
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 14: public right, that.

871
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 21: Would be based on Supreme Court caste law and taste

872
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 21: law generally.

873
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 4: But it's an appearance.

874
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 14: What I'm asking you is, Jude, would you give me

875
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 14: that it's that there's an appearance to the public.

876
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 4: Objection this cause for our legal conclusion, your honor witness.

877
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 14: Well, the witness testified that he's been aware of conflict

878
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 14: principles for twenty five years, so I think he should.

879
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 4: Respond to that question.

880
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 22: I think this is a good argument to have with

881
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 22: the court after the evidence has been presented, whether or

882
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 22: not there's an appearance of a conflict what that means.

883
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 22: But I don't think Whennest's opinion about it is is evidence.

884
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 4: Thank you.

885
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,919
Speaker 12: I'm going to sustain the objections from now.

886
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 14: Back understood, mister Gray wy don't you turn to page

887
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 14: three and now be standard toward the bottom one dash

888
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 14: three point three C.

889
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 4: Do you see that? Yes? Okay? Could you read one

890
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 4: dash three point three C aloud for the record.

891
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 21: If a prosecutor believes that public perception of the integrity

892
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 21: of the prosecutor's office and public confidence in the handling

893
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 21: of the case would negatively be impacted by a potential

894
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 21: or alleged conflict of interest, the prosecutor should consider refusal.

895
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 14: All right, mister great, I want to ask you some

896
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 14: questions about the decision to file a notice of intent

897
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 14: to seek the death penalty against mister Robinson and the fact,

898
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 14: which is beyond dispute, that a adult child of a

899
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 14: member of the prosecution team was present at the shooting

900
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 14: of mister Kirk. All right, you state in your opposition, Well,

901
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 14: let me back up. You testified on January sixth, team

902
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 14: that you are the one who drafted the opposition to the.

903
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 4: Motion to disqualify.

904
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 14: Correct, yes, all right, so even though there's no affidavit

905
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 14: by you, you stand by the contents.

906
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 4: Yeah.

907
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 21: I said, to the extent that we needed a we

908
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 21: could either profer that information or testifying here.

909
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 4: I am okay.

910
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 14: So my first question is is there a formal written

911
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 14: policy or guidelines or a procedure. I don't want you

912
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 14: get hung up on my nouns for when your office

913
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 14: decides to seek or not seek the death penalty in a.

914
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 21: Case, anytime that it's an aggravated murder case, there's a

915
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 21: potential for that.

916
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 3: Okay.

917
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 4: So I understand that because that's what the statute says.

918
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 14: That's my question is is there a policy, a procedure,

919
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 14: a protocol, something in writing now?

920
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 4: Okay? And is it your.

921
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 14: View that it's your decision alone because you're the elected

922
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 14: county attorney?

923
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: Yes? Okay.

924
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 14: And in this case, did you discuss that question whether

925
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 14: the state should seek the death penalty with your team

926
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 14: before that decision was made?

927
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 4: Yes?

928
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 14: And did that conversation include the adult prosecute the prosecutor

929
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 14: whose child is the adult student at UVU were talking about. Now,

930
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 14: are you saying that that prosecutor was specifically excluded?

931
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 4: Now?

932
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 21: Maybe I misunderstood your question, and I thought you asked

933
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 21: whether or not we discussed her status?

934
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 14: Is Let me let me back up, because it was

935
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 14: a bad question if you didn't understan the rules.

936
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 4: Okay.

937
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 14: So you discussed with your prosecution team whether or not

938
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 14: the state would seek the death penalty against against whoever

939
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 14: the state accused of committing that crime.

940
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 4: Yes, and the I should back up.

941
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 21: I mean, I don't know that we had a discussion

942
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 21: before they actually had an arrest. I mean that was

943
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 21: two days later, but certainly in between the time that

944
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 21: we filed and then we did have a discussion.

945
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 4: Okay.

946
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 14: So what you're saying, if I'm not trying to put

947
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 14: words in your mouth, but just so the record is clear,

948
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 14: is that after mister Robinson was arrested, your team had

949
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 14: a conversation about whether or not you would file a

950
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 14: notice of intent.

951
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 4: To seek the death It was it was rather informal.

952
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,479
Speaker 21: I don't know that we all got together and said

953
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 21: what are we going to do. I would talk to

954
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 21: different members of my team that I had pretty much

955
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 21: made up my decision, and so what they I mean

956
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 21: they knew where I was going.

957
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 14: Did you make up your decision before there was an arrest?

958
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 21: I thought that based on if we had the evidence,

959
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 21: that yeah, we would be seeking the death penalty.

960
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 14: And you were already aware at that time that the

961
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 14: child of one of your team members was present at

962
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 14: that event, right sure, Right now, What you're.

963
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 4: Saying is that the.

964
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 14: And that you discussed that with all the team members,

965
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 14: even if informally.

966
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 4: As far as the death penalty, yes, yes, okay.

967
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 14: And you didn't exclude from that conversation the prosecutor whose

968
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 14: child we're talking about. That prosecutor was included in the

969
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 14: conversation about whether to seek the death Yes, all.

970
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 4: Right, and.

971
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 14: You're aware because I think you were present that there

972
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 14: were a number of press conferences is held by elected

973
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 14: state officials, both before and after mister Robinson's arrest.

974
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 4: Correct, Yes, okay.

975
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 14: The governor, who's a former licensed attorney in Utah, held

976
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 14: a press conference on September tenth.

977
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 4: Were you present there? Probably? I was president two different

978
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 4: conference press conference. There was one on the tenth and

979
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 4: one on the eleventh, and I know he made.

980
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 21: Other statements as well, So I'm not quite certain. I

981
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 21: know that I was at two different press conferences.

982
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 14: So when Governor Cox announced at a press conference that

983
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 14: the state was going to seek the death penalty, had

984
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 14: you already told Governor Cox that that was your decision?

985
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 4: I believe his statements.

986
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 21: The only thing that I can remember of his statements

987
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 21: is he said, by the way, or something to that effect,

988
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 21: Utah has the death penalty.