WEBVTT - The True Story of BlacKkKlansman 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:11.320 Welcome to Stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks dot com. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.800 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.600 Charles Bryant, there's Jerry over there. You put the three 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.640 of us together. It's movie crush, I mean stuff. You 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:23.079 should know. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.720 This does have some stank on it doesn't it. It's 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:27.960 a movie stank. H. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:29.560 I know your game is cool. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.280 I didn't even ask you have you seen Black Clansman. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.760 I was like, I can't. I can't do this episode 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.919 without having seen it. So I watched it last night. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.920 Oh nice, Yeah good? Huh. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.320 Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. Like I like his choice 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.239 at the end, like just completely pull a somersault on 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:48.800 the viewer. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:50.440 Oh sure with that last bet. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.559 Yeah, like spoiler alert, pretty power. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.600 There's an end all spoilery. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.920 Yeah, for sure. We should probably say that out of 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.360 the gate. If you haven't seen this yet and you 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.600 don't want it to be spoiled, don't listen this episode first. Yes, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.520 but yeah, I guess now that we've said that, we 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:05.600 can speak freely. Right. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:06.839 Yes, So. 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:13.679 The if if the entire movie was basically to disarm 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.440 you up to the end, then I think it's one 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.440 of the greatest movies I've ever seen in my life. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.520 And even if it wasn't, that wasn't the entire point 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.680 of the movie. It was still it was still great. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.360 And how he pulled it out at the end, I think. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:28.919 Yeah, well this was I don't know if you remember, 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.000 but this is the movie I saw in Perth, Australia. 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.400 Yeah that happens at the end, that big, you know, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.759 sort of gut punch of realism at the end. And 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.560 I stood up and I was like, hmm, like, I 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.400 wonder what they're thinking here in Perth. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.760 They probably think of what just happened? What's wrong with America? 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.200 Yeah, and I'm going, I my good to see you. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:55.600 I'm not American. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.440 I'm Canadian. Can't you tell bloke? 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.640 Oh goodness. Yeah. It was one of those things where 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.600 I was like, I'm kind of slightly embarrassed right now. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:08.639 Yeah, but I like that. 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.520 I enjoyed the movie though. I thought to see Spike Lee, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.880 who just he's one of my favorite filmmakers in his sixties, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.840 still just bringing the juice like this. I loved it. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.440 Yeah. I also loved that it was controversial too, in that, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.600 like some people criticize Spike Lee for like not going 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.480 far enough or maybe kind of glossing over some of 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.560 the ugly aspects of the story. 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.040 Yeah, well, do you want to get to that at 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:35.239 the end, maybe, yeah. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.640 Yeah, for sure, but we'll give it a pre mention 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.320 shout out, which is what we just did. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.200 Right, So we are talking about the true story of 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.120 the film Black Clansman, Spike Lee's movie that won the 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.800 Grand Prize at the con Film Festival. It's nominated for 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.000 Academy Awards. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.560 Yeah, three Oscars, I believe for including Best Picture. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:01.960 Yeah, I think Picture, Director, and. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.720 Supporting Actor for who I would guess Adam Driver. I 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.760 didn't see. Really, Yeah, I was surprised because Denzel's son 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.480 did a wonderful job as well. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.679 He loves he loves that being known as that, right. 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.440 I can't remember his first name, but you know, Denzel's son. 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.600 He was like there were several times when he was 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.640 talking and I was like, oh, you are definitely Denzel 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:30.320 Washington's son man, just the way he talked, the sound 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.720 of his voice. But also is acting too, he's a 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:33.239 good actor. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.960 Yeah, so all right, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:41.760 Adam Driver, Best Director, and Best Original Music Score. Oh nice, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.440 but yeah, he is. I didn't know he was Denzel 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.280 Sun un till after the movie. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:48.400 Yeah, I could see that. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:50.600 And he was a football player, do you know that? 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:52.600 I didn't who he played for. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.200 He played for Morehouse here in Atlanta. He was a 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.520 running back and then played an NFL on the practice 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.960 squad for the RAM and then eventually played a few 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.839 years in NFL Europe and the UFL until he hung 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:07.600 up his cleats six years ago. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.360 Oh that's cool. Yeah, playing football in Europe has got 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.440 to be a surreal experience, you know. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:15.920 Yeah, because it's a soccer ball. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.560 Everyone's like, what are you doing? This is all wrong? 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.719 All right? So should we way back into the nineteen seventies, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.839 the groovy seventies of Denver, Colorado. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.080 First we should say his name is John David Washington. 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.720 Oh sure you were kidding Denzel Son. Yes, so yeah, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.120 let's get in the way back machine and see go 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.760 inspect their terrible, low quality pot. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:49.000 So Ron Stalworth is the true to life character's name. 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.840 Who There was a football player growing when we were 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.279 growing up named John Stalworth. So I'm always wanting to 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:55.680 say John Stalworth. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.080 This is not him. This is a cop named Ron Stalworth. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.000 That's right, and he had a few designations that are 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.560 pretty important. He was the first African American police officer 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.680 to work for the Colorado Springs Police Department, which he 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.719 joined as a cadet at the age of nineteen. Yeah, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.000 in seventy two, and then a couple of years later 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.520 on his twenty first birthday, on his twenty first birthday. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:20.000 That's what I saw ye had June eighteenth. 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.880 I believe Nice was sworn in as a full on 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:24.080 officer of the law. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.599 Right And I'm not sure if like they just swear 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.599 you in on your twenty first birthday or if it 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.359 just so happened that'san ceremony was on his twenty first birthday, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.000 but regardless, it was a big deal. He's the first 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:39.120 African American cop and then later on detective for Colorado 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.919 spring So that's a big deal, especially starting out at 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.000 age twenty one too. That takes a lot of cajones 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.360 as they call it in Colorado. No. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.200 I think they call those rocky Mountain oysters. 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.600 That's right, that is what they call him for sure. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:57.360 So he worked undercover for about thirty years long, great 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.000 careers an undercover detective, but it was this case which 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.080 only came out about four years ago when he wrote 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.760 a book about it about his career when he went 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:13.480 under cover as a well as a clansman. But it's 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:14.800 a little more complicated than that. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.920 It was a very complicated operation, right. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.359 Yeah, And this wasn't something that like, I mean, he 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.120 even says in this NPR interview that he didn't. It 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.560 was just a job at that particular point in time. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.559 And when that particular job ended, that is the undercover stint, 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.080 which was about what eight or nine months, I moved 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.839 on to something else and it just happened by circumstance. 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.159 So he didn't come in there with a bone to 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.599 pick with the Klan, aside from probably every bone to 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.400 pick that he had with the Klan, right, just as 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:49.480 a black man in America. 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.520 Yeah, and I knew it would probably help to give 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.680 a little background on the Klan at the time, because 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.599 you know, the clan was very well known for being 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:01.360 really big and really violent. At over. Three waves is 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.440 basically how the clan history is divided. Yeah, Like the 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.279 first wave was when they were they were founded in 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.960 the wake of the Civil War. Then they had the 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:16.240 second wave came around the nineteen teens, like nineteen fifty fifteen, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.920 I mean that era, and then they had another big 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.440 resurgence during the Civil Rights era in the fifties and sixties. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.240 But you know, in between these waves and after that 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.240 third wave, it's not like the Clan just went away. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.440 They kept on going. Their profile was lower, and maybe 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:40.240 the public violence or terrorism that they were engaging in 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.960 wasn't quite as pronounced, but they were still there, and 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.800 in Colorado in particular, they had a really long history 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.680 with the Klan, where basically the city of Denver was 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.840 in under the control of the Klan back in the twenties, 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:01.000 just you know, fifty years before Ron Stalwarts started working there. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.440 Yeah, he was. When he got hired there, he got 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.240 access to files like secret FBI files, and he got 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.960 to go in and dig in and look at the 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:15.440 history of the Clan in Colorado, and boy, like you 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.880 ain't kidding, they were in the House of Representatives. There 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:19.680 were senators. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:21.800 Both senators were Clans members. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.080 The mayor Benjamin Stapleton, who the airport was named after 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.280 until ninety five. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.720 Yeah, his great grandson ran for governor on the GOP 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:37.280 ticket this past election and lost to who is Colorado's 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.160 first ever openly gay Jewish governor. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.679 Oh wow, Colorado is a weird state. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:45.440 It is an odd state for a. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.800 Lot of different ideologies all packed in together. 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.400 It's very purple in all sorts of ways. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.480 Yeah, so Mayor Benjamin Stapleton was a clan member. The 0:08:55.520 --> 0:09:01.440 governor Clarence Morley was a clan member chief of police, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.920 which is I mean, you don't want anyone in these 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.120 positions to be clan members, but I imagine the chief 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.480 of police is one of the more problematic areas to 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.400 have a person in that kind of control. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.320 Particularly that one too. He was basically he was picked 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:20.600 by the clan, the Colorado Clan, and basically foisted on 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:25.160 Benjamin Stapleton, who who was even like, wow, this guy's 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.240 even too much for my tastes, and eventually fired him. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.840 But like the clan picked the chief of police of Denver, Colorado, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:34.760 back in the twenties. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.360 Oh yeah, And they tried to recall Stapleton at one point. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.600 It didn't work, and when that effort failed, the klan 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.559 burned across on the top of Table Mountain as a celebration, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:46.920 a show of public celebration. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.880 Right, So the clan has deep roots and an old 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.240 story in Colorado, or at least they used to, and 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:59.320 they were still very much around when Ron Stalworth started 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:07.360 as stigationners started as the first black detective in Colorado Springs, right, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.079 that's right. And so he started out I guess, his 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:15.360 kind of playing clothes and was assigned undercover work pretty 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.280 quickly just by his just by being the only African 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:26.240 American officer in the police force. Because Stokely Carmichael came 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:27.079 to town once. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.560 That's right, And this is in the film. We're going 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.360 to talk about a few differences between the movie and 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.720 the real story. But he did, in fact to go 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.439 to a speech in a rally by famous black panther 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.760 Stokely Carmichael, and he was, you know fully kitted out 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.600 in his bell bottoms and his wearing a wire, he 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.440 picked his afro out, and he in fact did make 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:53.959 a point to meet him, just like he did in 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.320 the film. And Carmichael did apparently say arm yourself and 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.839 get ready because the revolution has come. And I imagine 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.800 Stalworth had some mixed feelings about that assignment. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.240 Yeah, I would guess. So it's kind of like, I 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.000 don't really have any idea of what he personally was 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.280 like because the movie mixed things up so much, in 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.880 like added layers that weren't necessarily there. So I have 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.600 no idea what that experience would have been like for him, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:22.800 you know. 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.199 Yeah. One thing we do know is not true is 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.440 the character in the film of Patrese, whom he meets 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.600 at that rally, young woman that he falls in love with. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.720 She was made up for the movie. Spike Lee wanted 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:39.599 a love interest basically, and to represent sort of the 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.320 female black power movement as a whole, So she was 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.680 completely made up. But she was terrific in the film. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:46.480 Yeah. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.719 Yeah, Laura Harrier. She's in the New Spider Man movies too. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.240 She's awesome, cool, the New Spider Verse movie. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.880 No no, no, that's animated. Oh okay, well she could 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:56.560 have been a voice actor. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:57.800 I guess right. Yeah. 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.880 No, she's in the one, the New Ones with the 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:01.480 New Kid. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.600 Okay, the New Spider Kid, the Current Spider Man. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.840 Current Spider Man, which is great. Those are good movies. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:09.280 I haven't seen any of them. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:10.920 You're not super into that stuff, though, were you. 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.320 Well? I saw The Infinity War when he was in that. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.960 I think, Yeah, he's a bit of a smart Alec 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:18.160 Frankly he is. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.760 So okay, he does his research on the deep roots 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.960 of the clan in Colorado, he goes under cover, and 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.520 then I don't think he was even assigned this thing. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:33.960 I think he kind of came up with it on 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.520 his own, by chance, almost in October nineteen seventy eight. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.440 He was twenty five at this point, and he was 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.400 looking through the local paper. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.080 Well that was part of his assignment, to gather intelligence 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:47.040 by reading the paper. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.480 Well, right, but I don't think I think this was 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.160 his idea to go undercover like this. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:52.880 That's the impression I have too. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.560 He seemed like a self starter in a lot of ways. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.439 So he found this ad, a classify ad in the 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.280 paper for the clan said get in touch if you 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.520 want further information. He sent a letter posing as a 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:12.360 white racist to a po box, just thinking that he 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.200 would just get back some pamphlets or something. So he 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.240 signed his real name, which is he didn't really think 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:18.720 that went through. 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.280 No, he didn't, and he did. He never really fully 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.000 explained it aside from the best explanation I saw is 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.680 that he didn't think anything was going to come of it. 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.360 He thought he'd get like you said, a couple of 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.600 pamphlets and that would be that. And he just wasn't 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.280 planning to create like a large investigation out of making 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.760 contact through this ad. And again we should probably state this. 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.839 It was an ad in the paper for the clan 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.520 to get in touch with the clan, to get more 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.680 info about the clan and maybe you might want to join. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:56.840 Who knows, right, So he makes contact with him by 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.480 sending off a letter. And if you ask me, if 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.120 if Spike Lee were directing this episode, he would put 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:04.080 an ad break right here. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:07.680 That was good. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.040 Who are we to disagree? 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:10.160 All right, we'll be right back. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.520 Okay. So, like we said, ron Stalworth is thumbing through 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.360 the newspaper. He mails off a letter to get more 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:47.120 info about the clan, and he uses his real name, 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.280 and like you said, Chuck, he was expecting like a 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.680 pamphlet or something in return, like so you want to 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.480 be a clan member or something like that. Instead, about 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.840 two weeks later, he got a call from the numbers. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.560 So he used everything as far as the undercover operation 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.360 would go. He used all of his undercover info except 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.560 for his name. So he got a call in his 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.520 undercover phone line from a guy named Ken O'Dell and 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.960 he was pretty surprised to get this call because again 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.760 he was expecting a pamphlet and instead he had a real, live, living, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.360 breathing Ku Klux Klansman on the other end of the 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.080 line saying, Hey, I got your letter about hating black 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.480 people and other minorities. Let's talk. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.600 Yeah, he was like, why are you interested? And Stalwarth 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:38.960 immediately just kind of goes into character, and I guess 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.400 that's what you know when you're undercover. You got to 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.560 be part improv actor, right to be able to pull 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:44.960 that off. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.800 Well. He also he said he drew from his own 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.560 personal experiences because he grew up in El Paso and 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.040 encountered a lot of racism there and I'm sure on 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.320 the force in Colorado Springs too, so he drew from 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.520 his own experience as well. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.920 Yeah. So he basically right out of the gate, says, well, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.840 you know, my sister's dating a black man, and every 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.040 time he puts his hands on her, on her pure 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.880 white body, I cringe and I want to do something 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.880 about it. And Ken O'Dell says, you sound like a 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:20.160 great guy once you come on down and let's meet, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.240 because you are just the kind of kind of dude 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:24.160 we're looking for you. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.880 Sound like real clam material. Yeah. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:28.960 I thought about maybe doing an episode on the Klan. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.560 I thought about the two and then I'm like, do 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.080 you want to give him a platform? 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.720 Yeah? But then I thought, or you know, you could 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.600 just talk about it and how stupid they are all right? 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.920 Like it when I was a kid. I mean, of course, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.960 being in Georgia, that stuff was around. I never saw 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.640 it firsthand, obviously, yeah, but you heard things even like 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.480 growing up in the seventies in Georgia, and I was 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.600 always so scared of the whole thing because of the 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.920 outfits and everything and the fire. And I was a 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.000 good little Baptist boy, so there was a lot of fear. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.200 But then I got a little older and I was like, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:07.199 they're just dumb rednecks wearing sheets, right, sort of demystified it. 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.120 That's the moment you become an adult. Yeah. 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.520 But I mean, of course, then I would later learn 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.520 that they did real horrific things and took lives and 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.440 you know, or a terrorist organization. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.399 Right right. Yeah, But I think what you're saying is 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.199 they made themselves up to be boogeymen. Yeah, exactly, and 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.120 they definitely can be that way, especially in the young 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:32.199 mind or something like that. But sure. Yeah. So so 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.160 back to the story. Ron Stalworth is on the phone 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.000 with this guy named Ken O'Dell who wants to meet 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.600 him to see if he'd like to join the Klan. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.800 And this is a big problem because I think, as 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.280 we mentioned a couple of times, ron Stalworth was African American. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.200 Yeah, He's like, oh boy, what do I do here? 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:53.840 Right? So he actually recruited a fellow detective who he 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.520 in his book calls Chuck. That's all he's ever publicly 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.960 referred to the guy as is Chuck Waite? Was it you, Chuck? 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.160 It was not me that gentleman. Is I guess either 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.200 still undercover or just never wanted his identity out there? Right? 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.320 So he Yeah, he may still live in Colorado Springs. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.159 Who knows, maybe he's on a case right now for 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:12.520 all I know. 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:18.359 But so this Chuck guys, he was recruited by Ron 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.680 Stalwarts to play ron stalwarth to the Klan because Chuck 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.680 was white, he was already an undercover narcotics agent and 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.720 apparently he was friendly enough with Ron Stalwart to say, yes, 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.919 I will join this investigation, buddy, Let's do it. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.600 Yeah. And here's the thing though he was this wasn't 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.240 his primary case. So Chuck is undercover on a lot 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.760 of different assignments, so he's not around as much as 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.560 Stalwart needs him. So, like in the movie, most of 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.800 this stuff is done over the phone. Like, he spends 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.119 a lot of time in this investigation on the phone 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.640 speaking to these clansmen who think that he's a white man, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.200 and when they needed to meet, he would send Chuck 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.320 in who And we'll get to the voice part in 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.200 a minute, because that's when I was watching the movie. 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.040 I was like, do none of these dummies not realize 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.640 that they don't sound anything alike, right, you know, because 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.200 they've been talking to him on the phone at length. 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.880 But they had they had their first meeting. They they 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.080 got together, and I believe they met. They met somewhere 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.240 at first and then went to a bar after, like 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:28.760 as the second part of that meeting. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.280 Yeah, they met at a convenience So the movie supposedly 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:35.320 portrays this realistically. They they this Chuck guy who was 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.520 portraying Ron Stalwarts to the Klan. They met at a 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.119 convenience store and he was said he was told to 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.359 get in the car and then they drove to a 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.120 second location. Man, that's scary stuff. And also he's also 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.800 wearing a wire at the time. Like that's something that 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.840 that the movie kind of gets across, but especially in 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.000 like articles about the story don't necessarily dive into this. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.560 Chuck cat was like putting himself out there. 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.080 Oh sure, as every undercover detective does. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.440 Right. So, I mean Ron Stalworth is conducting this investigation, 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.040 he's the mastermind of he's leading this whole thing. But 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.000 this poor Chuck guy has to go hang out with 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.960 these you know, violent clans members or clan members on 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.639 you know, like fairly frequently from what I understand. So 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:19.800 hats off to him. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.199 Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean it was it was definitely 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.160 like it required both of their best efforts to get 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.040 away with this for that long, right, it was quite 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.000 the ruse. So Chuck meets with them, eventually earns their 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:35.919 trust along with the phone work of Stalworth, and then 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:42.800 he actually gets successfully admitted about two months later and 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.359 got his little I guess you get a little membership card. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.000 He still has it. 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.119 He does. He did not throw it away like in 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.119 the movie. He has it framed in fact and on 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.760 the back of the card. Were six codes of conduct, 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.359 one of which said never discuss any clan affairs with 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.840 any plane clothes officer on a state, local, or national level. 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:02.399 Right. 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.760 So, there is a lot of comedy in the movie 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.520 if you haven't seen it, I mean, it's it's a 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.640 serious thing that they're doing. But there are a lot 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:11.720 of laughs as well. 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.760 A lot of laughs and a lot of like movie 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:18.719 formula steps that Spike Lee purposely follows, you know, very 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.680 faithfully too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So there's a big point 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.480